Difference between revisions of "Talk:1697: Intervocalic Fortition"

Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.
Jump to: navigation, search
Line 1: Line 1:
 
<!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~-->
 
<!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~-->
If they can't see through such transparent trickery, they must not be very cunning linguists. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.102|108.162.216.102]] 02:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
 
 
 
The idea, stated in the alt-text, that "meh" was created by writers of "The Simpsons", is incorrect.  "The Simpsons", however, was responsible for widely popularizing it. See [http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/09/06/meh_etymology_tracing_the_yiddish_word_from_leo_rosten_to_auden_to_the_simpsons.html] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh] [[User:Dubaaron|Dubaaron]] ([[User talk:Dubaaron|talk]]) 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
The idea, stated in the alt-text, that "meh" was created by writers of "The Simpsons", is incorrect.  "The Simpsons", however, was responsible for widely popularizing it. See [http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/09/06/meh_etymology_tracing_the_yiddish_word_from_leo_rosten_to_auden_to_the_simpsons.html] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh] [[User:Dubaaron|Dubaaron]] ([[User talk:Dubaaron|talk]]) 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
:Is it really saying that ''The Simpsons'' created the word? All it says is that it introduced the word, which does not seem to imply that it didn't exist before. If I introduce a friend of mine to another person, I most likely did not just create that other person, and there is no reason to believe that it should be any different for words.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 13:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
:Is it really saying that ''The Simpsons'' created the word? All it says is that it introduced the word, which does not seem to imply that it didn't exist before. If I introduce a friend of mine to another person, I most likely did not just create that other person, and there is no reason to believe that it should be any different for words.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 13:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Line 28: Line 26:
 
It's quite surprising to see Randall misusing apostrophes to form plurals (i.e. V's and F's instead of the correct Vs and Fs).&nbsp; &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.41|141.101.98.41]] 19:36, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
It's quite surprising to see Randall misusing apostrophes to form plurals (i.e. V's and F's instead of the correct Vs and Fs).&nbsp; &ndash; [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.41|141.101.98.41]] 19:36, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
:That's one of those gray/grey areas where the "rules" for apostrophes aren't firmly in place. Typographically, the apostrophe is (often) used to form plurals of lower case letters ("i's" and "m's" for clarity over "is" and "ms") and this exception tends to get carried over to capital letters, numbers, and symbols though the need for insuring clarity is reduced. It becomes a matter for style manuals rather than grammar manuals: do you follow the exception -- or the exception to the exception?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.98|108.162.221.98]] 21:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 
:That's one of those gray/grey areas where the "rules" for apostrophes aren't firmly in place. Typographically, the apostrophe is (often) used to form plurals of lower case letters ("i's" and "m's" for clarity over "is" and "ms") and this exception tends to get carried over to capital letters, numbers, and symbols though the need for insuring clarity is reduced. It becomes a matter for style manuals rather than grammar manuals: do you follow the exception -- or the exception to the exception?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.98|108.162.221.98]] 21:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
 +
 +
If they can't see through such transparent trickery, they must not be very cunning linguists. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.102|108.162.216.102]] 02:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Revision as of 03:18, 23 June 2016

The idea, stated in the alt-text, that "meh" was created by writers of "The Simpsons", is incorrect. "The Simpsons", however, was responsible for widely popularizing it. See [1] and [2] Dubaaron (talk) 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Is it really saying that The Simpsons created the word? All it says is that it introduced the word, which does not seem to imply that it didn't exist before. If I introduce a friend of mine to another person, I most likely did not just create that other person, and there is no reason to believe that it should be any different for words.Mulan15262 (talk) 13:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I don't think that "writers on The Simpsons decided to mess with future linguists" means "writers of The Simpsons introduced the word". 108.162.221.13 14:25, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

"The" ends in a lax vowel, and it's the most ubiquitous word in the language, so that rule is wrong. 108.162.221.10 04:45, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I've always seen "lax vowel" referring to full (unreduced) vowels. When unstressed, the vowel in "the" is reduced (/ðə/), and when stressed it's tense (/ði:/). 188.114.109.66 05:08, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Furthermore, the lax vowel is only used if 'the' is followed by another syllable, and so the utterance will not be lax-vowel-final. 162.158.2.219 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
How does that matter? The rule as stated was about the ending of words, not of utterances. Huttarl (talk) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Rules exists in reality, not as statements made by mathematicians or Randall. The actual rule is English doesn't allow utterances to end in a lax vowel. 108.162.221.13 22:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
What the? That can't be right... 162.158.83.102 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Questions. Is this happening in (American) English? is "adverb" becoming /adferb/. Any other examples?Zeimusu (talk) 05:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

I scanned some 'v' words and didn't see much. A plural of dwarf discussion; similarly wharf splits into both wharfs and wharves. 'Halving' might benefit in the sense that the 'l' is silent so it sounds like 'having' and might be more clear as 'halfing'. I've also noticed a smattering of YouTubers writing "could of/should of" instead of contracting 'have', i.e, "could've/should've". Elvenivle (talk) 06:50, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
The pronunciation of both of and ’ve is /əv/. 108.162.221.13 13:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
No, I don't think this is really happening. 141.101.98.77 11:22, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
"Adverb" doesn't have an intervocalic "v". 108.162.221.13 14:21, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
No, but the prank as stated in the comic "V's in the middle of words" applies to "adverb". 108.162.237.178 15:34, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, absolutely. 108.162.237.220 19:38, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

It's quite surprising to see Randall misusing apostrophes to form plurals (i.e. V's and F's instead of the correct Vs and Fs).  – 141.101.98.41 19:36, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

That's one of those gray/grey areas where the "rules" for apostrophes aren't firmly in place. Typographically, the apostrophe is (often) used to form plurals of lower case letters ("i's" and "m's" for clarity over "is" and "ms") and this exception tends to get carried over to capital letters, numbers, and symbols though the need for insuring clarity is reduced. It becomes a matter for style manuals rather than grammar manuals: do you follow the exception -- or the exception to the exception?108.162.221.98 21:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

If they can't see through such transparent trickery, they must not be very cunning linguists. 108.162.216.102 02:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)