explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

explain xkcd talk:Editor FAQ

2021-11-28T00:11:46Z

141.101.68.43: /* Duplicating the hover text/title in the transcript section? */ new section

Feel free to enter any question about editing this Wiki and don't forget to sign you comment. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

== Formatting of explanations ==

Many pages contain tables where a definition list would be 1) easier to read 2) mobile friendly, for example: [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1957:_2018_CVE_List&oldid=160469 1957].

I was also involved in rewriting the transcript for [[1963]], where the discussion came up about how those should be styled. ("as if you were reading the comic to someone")

I think we should have a small style guide to encourage sane formatting. What else should such guidelines contain?

Edit: One more thing I'd love to see: semantic headlines (i.e. < h3> headlines for explanation subchapters instead of < h2> which is the same level as the explanation itself)

<small>(Sidenote: I've been active on explainxkcd for quite some time, but only now got around making an account.)</small> [[User:Gir|//gir.st/]] ([[User talk:Gir|talk]]) 15:01, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

:Thanks for your remarks. First: There is no need to start every new sentence at a new line. Tables are meant for small content in all other cases it's bad layout. I recently changed this [[2034: Equations]] to a proper floating text. At the transcript tables should never be used, even when there is a table in the comic image it should be described by text. The guide here was mainly written by me because there was nothing like this here before. Some people already helped and I'm happy for any further remarks to enhance it. And this table issue is definitely one; I just not wanted to be the only (arrogant) layout master. Your help is welcome to write something, otherwise I will do so soon.
:For headlines we don't use HTML-code but WIKI-code. The main headlines are written like this: <nowiki>==Explanation==</nowiki>, <nowiki>==Transcript==</nowiki>, and (optional) <nowiki>==Trivia==</nowiki>. Headlines inside that chapters should be done in this way: <nowiki>;Subtitle</nowiki>. The preceding semicolon causes the entire line to be rendered in bold. Only when the explanation really needs sub-chapters it can be done by this: <nowiki>===Sub header===</nowiki> (three equal signs before and after the text). I will put this also into the FAQ.
:Welcome and thanks for helping. PROTIP: Always use the preview button to check the layout before saving. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:39, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
::hi, I'm aware about the headlines and stuff, it was just shorter to write it this way in the comment. I see you started a bit with a styleguide already; I hope I can contribute to it next week, when things cool down at work a bit. //gir.st/, who is to lazy to log in [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.190|172.68.51.190]] 06:51, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

So, one more thing, regarding 'What is the proper layout for headers?'. I think we should better use small <code><nowiki>====headings====</nowiki></code> instead of just description titles (<code><nowiki>;bold text</nowiki></code>), since it makes the intent clearer. what is your reasoning behind suggesting it the other way round? greetings, [[User:Gir|//gir.st/]] ([[User talk:Gir|talk]]) 14:49, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for your input and of course Wiki markup headers should be valid. I just believe that the simplest way should also be valid for less experienced writers. When a new explanation starts it's often awful and chaotic; giving a simple but effective structure at the beginning helps against this chaos. So, I'm thinking about dividing the section "What is the proper layout for headers?" (it's a question because it's a FAQ) into two subsections:
:*easy: a semicolon, the colon at the following paragraph may be mentioned - but I'm not sure about the colon because it should be ''easy''
:*advanced: <code><nowiki>===headings===</nowiki></code> if the comic really can be divided into chapters; <code><nowiki>====headings====</nowiki></code> as a replacement for the semicolon; and <code><nowiki>==headings==</nowiki></code> is forbidden because it belongs to expl, trnsc, trivia. The semicolon, colon issue should be mentioned here.
:Please consider that there was many chaos in the past and many writers will do their edits without reading this FAQ. So keeping this simple as possible seems to me to be inevitable. And dividing sections by using the semicolon for a header is still much better than many of those tables. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:41, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
::Based on this discussion I edited the current comic here: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2037%3A_Supreme_Court_Bracket&type=revision&diff=161880&oldid=161841] and compare it to this former version [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2037:_Supreme_Court_Bracket&diff=prev&oldid=161841]. Do not focus on the edits, just scroll down to the resulting page.
::This brought me to another important issue: NO links in a header. At Wikipedia this is also not welcome. This site isn't Wikipedia but in this case I feel this is a good rule. But the TOC (Table of content) is shown in the preview while it's not at the resulting page. The result is preferred but the TOC in the preview may confuse editors here.
::So, I'm still looking for simple instructions, layouts which advanced people always can enhance.
::And consider that some editors are probably younger than xkcd is. Not sure about this but there are definitely young people here and I welcome them all. And I'm NOT getting old like Randall sometimes feel, I like to support every editor despite any other background. And this has to be simple on the first place. STOP(I could talk much more) --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:49, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I missed this. I'd personally go with the "advanced" option, but mentioning both is fine too. Nice work on 2037! Really enjoying our conversations about this, I hope i'm not a bother ;-) [[User:Gir|//gir.st/]] ([[User talk:Gir|talk]]) 11:20, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
OK, after a few days and some more edits (for example see here: [[2035: Dark Matter Candidates]]) I believe this would be the best guide:
*<code><nowiki>====headings====</nowiki></code> should be preferred because the advantage is that each header has it's own edit button. One other advantage is that the header text will be shown at the summary in the history.
*The semicolon may be used as a preliminary layout for new comics until it's clear of what content the explanation is composed of.
*On more rare circumstances the <code><nowiki>===headings===</nowiki></code> may divide the explanation into different larger chapters.
*<code><nowiki>==headings==</nowiki></code> is reserved to the general layout and has not to be used.
And I still oppose to the colon at the beginning of any paragraph at all. Any thoughts? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:17, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

== Please '''''do not''''' use semicolon-lines as "headings" ==

Hi, sorry to butt in, but I was going to mention this here anyway after I saw it in the FAQ. Please ''don't'' continue to give this advice to editors:
<blockquote>For headlines you have to use Wiki-style code. The simplest way is a preceding semicolon at the beginning of the line which causes the entire line to be rendered in bold.<ref>§ [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ#What_is_the_proper_layout_for_headers.3F|What is the proper layout for headers?]] of the [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ|Editor FAQ]]</ref>

====References====
<references/>
</blockquote>

The [[explain xkcd:Editor FAQ#In_which_case_tables_are_meaningful_and_when_not.3F|previous Editor FAQ section]] has it right: in wikicode, the semicolon opens a ''description list'', and will be translated into equivalent HTML. In other words, the wikicode is processed as follows:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Wikicode !! HTML
|-
| style="vertical-align:top;" |<pre>; xkcd
: a popular webcomic</pre>
|<pre><dl>
<dt>xkcd</dt>
<dd>a popular webcomic</dd>
</dl></pre>
|}

One or more lines started with a semicolon ''must'' be followed by at least one line that starts with a colon, to provide the <code><dd>...</dd></code> part of the description list block.

It is a {{w|Help:List#Common_mistakes|common mistake}} to use semicolon-lines as "headings". Unfortunately the result is '''invalid HTML''', since the HTML spec requires that a <code><dl></code> block contain:
<blockquote>Zero or more groups each consisting of one or more dt elements followed by one or more dd elements</blockquote>
It's fine to have multiple semicolon-lines in a row (as the HTML standard allows for groups of several <code><dt>...</dt></code> blocks in sequence), but they must '''always''' be followed by at least one <code><dd>...</dd></code> block, created in wikicode by following a line started with a semicolon with another line that starts with a colon.

Just like lines started with <code>*</code> or <code>#</code>, a line started with a <code>;</code> creates a list element, and has syntactic requirements that must be followed. Abusing the description-term wikicode for purposes other than description-list creation not only breaks the HTML on the resulting page, but it makes the content much harder for screen readers and other assistive technologies to parse and accurately reproduce.

(And, yes, technically Mediawiki's use of <code>:</code>-lines for indenting, as on talk pages, is also invalid since it creates a <code><dl><dd>...</dd></dl></code> block with no <code><dt></code> element. So it's bad enough on talk pages, it's 100x worse to encourage doing it on '''article''' pages.) Please consider removing this bad advice from the Editor FAQ. Thanks. -- [[User:FeRDNYC|FeRDNYC]] ([[User talk:FeRDNYC|talk]]) 05:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

:Thanks for your remarks, that's why I started this FAQ and the discussion about it. Especially the header section is still preliminary, just check the section above here at the talk page.
:My first purpose is to keep it as simple as possible for writers having not much or no knowledge about wiki code or HTML. After that an advanced section should follow and define the rules for a complete article.
:Please check my summary from 29 August 2018 just above here. You're right the semicolon isn't a header, that's why I'm saying it should be used only temporary. And after reading your remarks here I would propose a single line with bold text and a following empty line instead of that semicolon thing.
:Keep it simple for people who just want to write something here; advanced users will change it to an appropriate layout later. Consider: When a new comic is out the explanation often starts in chaos. And for now I'm really happy that the overwhelming usage of tables is stopped.
:Let me know what you do think about the bold text line (not by semicolon) and the more sophisticated header guidance for the final layout as I've mentioned on 29 August 2018. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:45, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::And of course the usage of a semicolon should also be mentioned together with the colon because it's a list. An entire paragraph "How do I format lists?" has still to be written yet. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:51, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
::One more: I've checked the definition for <code>dd/dt/dl</code> and it's clear the <code>dd</code> tag must be followed by at least one (either <code>dt</code> or <code>dl</code>) child. This tells me that the indent done by a colon is proper HTML. This is very important because every transcript since the first comic uses this indentation. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:20, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

==Incomplete tags==
The FAQ says to use <code><nowiki>{{incomplete transcript|YOUR REASON}}</nowiki></code> but instead of rendering like this (like with the incomplete template):

{{notice|'''This transcript is incomplete:''' ''YOUR REASON'' <br/>If you can address this issue, please '''[{{fullurl:{{{target|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|action=edit}} edit the page]!''' Thanks.}}

It renders like this:

{{notice|'''This transcript is incomplete.''' Please help [{{fullurl:{{{target|{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}}|action=edit}} editing] it! Thanks.}}

Can someone please change this? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.133.180|172.68.133.180]] 02:55, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:The FAQ also says: "The reason at the transcript is not shown to the viewer." You can see it when you edit the transcript. And because the reason for the comic is also often not given this should be enough for the transcript. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

== math markup ==

Just to note - I was curious about the "math markup" message at the top of each page, and duly followed the link to the Editor FAQ as instructed, but ther--e is no mention of why it shouldn't be used... (no account yet, as I've not made any edits - yet! and i use google data saver, so this is not my ip -->) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.22|162.158.34.22]] 23:49, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

:damn, I'm tired - just re-read the section titles, and there it is. It's late, so sorry! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.22|162.158.34.22]] 23:54, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

::I think the reason given is incomplete, but wanted to check here before I amended it. Transcripts are for the benefit of visually-challenged visitors, so using math markup, and thus rendering the text as images, is counterproductive. Right? -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 15:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

:::The explanation is (in my opinion) somewhat silly, as the image generated by MathML has an alt tag for text browsers/accessible use. Further, if this wiki's settings were chosen correctly, the image would be output with MathML alongside, which is the ''actual'' (non-plaintext) accessible solution for displaying mathematical formulas on the web. See also: https://accessibility.princeton.edu/about/blog/mathml-accessible-math-markup [[User:DimeCadmium|DimeCadmium]] ([[User talk:DimeCadmium|talk]]) 02:20, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

== Create page for new comic ==

Should there be a paragraph about this?
Since the bot is not working anymore, people need to do this. I know I have seen isntructions somewhere on this wiki, but cannot find them... [btw: there is a new comic up, right now, as I post this line, which is not yet in the wiki. SO if you know how to do it, do it before explaining it on the FAQ :)] --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:27, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

== Page targeted by Spam ==

The page is currently targeted heavily by Spambots. I am not sure why they target this specific page. It might be, because it is linked in the header? Since Admins (who could protect the FAQ) seem to be currently absent from the page, anyone got any ideas what to do about it? leave it to spam and create a seperate FAQ with the same content? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

== Spaces ==

Seriously, why oh why is [[1285:_Third_Way|1285]] not linked into the statement about the one space / two space [[1285:_Third_Way | controversy]]? This feels like an inexplicable gap. Is there a policy insisting the FAQ remain fastidiously humorless in all ways? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.231|162.158.107.231]] 02:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

== Duplicating the hover text/title in the transcript section? ==

Is there a reason not to duplicate the title/hovertext in the transcript section, so a screenreader user can be sent there and not have to page back up for that bit (besides "one or more editors would need to check all entries and edit it in where missing")? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.43|141.101.68.43]] 00:11, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Talk:2544: Heart-Stopping Texts

2021-11-21T17:29:08Z

141.101.68.43:

I've done a brief explanation of each message -- sorry if I've edit-conflicted anyone! I'm not at all familiar with Joe Rogan, so I might have missed some significance there. [[User:Esogalt|Esogalt]] ([[User talk:Esogalt|talk]]) 19:47, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

The title text is not about a looping video of the car. The text just contains the "image loading" indicator repeating, but never successfully loads the image. That's what makes it so disturbing -- you never actually see the car. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:36, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
:It might also indicate that the server(s) upon which the media is stored is being hammered by ''everyone else trying to watch 'your car' and whatever is happening to it''. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.155|172.70.85.155]] 22:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I know it has been said of Twitter: "Every day on Twitter, one person is chosen as the 'main character'. Everyone's goal is ''not'' to have that happen to them." [[User:SpuriousCorrelation|SpuriousCorrelation]] ([[User talk:SpuriousCorrelation|talk]]) 21:14, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

What this "out of the blue" does mean? (I'm not native speaker of English) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.233|162.158.238.233]] 21:45, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
:'The blue' alludes to the clear daylight sky. Something arriving/appearing/dropping/flying "out of the blue" has appeared not just without warning, but there's no reason for you ''not'' to have seen it (e.g. looming out of a foggy night), which sort of implies that it's not just a surprise, but even the fact that you are getting surprised by somethng is surprising.
::(Just to reinterject as author of this piece, I wrote the above/following Paras to Talk-level quality, not Explanation-level. Gratified someone copied this verbatim to the main article but I'd have definitely written it 'better' there. Something like "Out Of The Blue means to arrive totally unepectedly, as if somehow arriving entirely without warning from a cloudless sky <...yada yada yada>". But do put your own rhetoric stamp on it, whoever sets about any edit.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.36|172.70.91.36]] 10:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
:I suppose "out of nowhere" or "out of thin air" might be a more understandable phrase, that might have a direct analogue in any other language/Anglophonic-culture-somehow-lacking-this-phrase.
:A very similar phrase is "a bolt from the blue" (a lightning strike from clear skies), and maybe even what the above was conceptually shortened/borrowed from. I imagine some etymology site has the actual facts on this, but that'd be cheating. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.155|172.70.85.155]] 22:08, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
::Oh yes, in Finnish is a phrase "Kuin salama kirkkaalta taivaalta' (like a ligtning strike from clear sky). First I assumed that this "out of blue" comes from typical sms/whatsapp/signal's speech bubble, but then I realized that there is no an unified color schemes in such apps. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.47|172.69.194.47]] 14:37, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

I think this is meant to show prank messages which one could send to someone to cause anxiety, rather than a selection of real ones. The "image loading animation" from the title text seals that, as it is a common prank message strategy to send a gif of just the loading animation to prey on the recipient's curiosity. At the very least, I think we should note the alternate interpretation. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.142.81|172.69.142.81]] 22:50, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
:Possible. But a media-playing app/widget/iframe/canvas/whatever tends to render something of its own while buffering, and it's easy to believe that this is that. So the intent of the comic could be various. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 03:25, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

"Can I call?" is one that I use/recieve semi-regularly, and it's not very stressful. The main use for me is when one party is not too familiar with the other one's schedule. And yes, it'd be used when you're expecting longer conversation, but not necessarily a stressful one - for example, when working on the organisaton of an event and going though some finer details. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.12|141.101.77.12]] 23:22, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

"There's been an accident, when can you be here to confirm identification?". Also, "Can I call you" (or a variation) is easily my number 1 text message, because if I wanted it to be truly asynchronous I'd send an email and if it was a matter of true urgency I'd call without preamble. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.43|141.101.68.43]] 17:29, 21 November 2021 (UTC)