explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2390: Linguists

2020-11-30T08:27:40Z

162.158.106.36:

"Fell in a hole" sounds wrong, from a (possibly) Rightpondian perspective. If it was "...into...", then that'd be better. (Falling down a hole would probably imply total inholation, while into one might mean no more than a foot getting snagged. Though the former also separately implies starting from partial or imminent holedness, the latter indicates the hole was not previously a problem but then became a novel issue to deal with. Falling 'in' a hole could mean "I was already at the bottom of a hole, minding my own business, and then I tripped on something/lost my balance and fell over..." ''Edit: as it might also be for "Fell down a hole", thinking more about it. A comma after "Fell" would make that more definite.'') I also have problems with "Lit on fire", for something that is set fire to, but I know that's definitely a transatlantic issue.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.216|162.158.155.216]] 02:01, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

::Yes, indeed, things are simply "lit" (if the sense of "fire" is contextually apparent) or "set on fire" (if it's not). A well lit room is a scene which need not involve a flaming component, whereas a burning room would have been set on fire.
::However. Holes, and the falling therein(to). Were one to fall "in" a hole, one would probably fall in such a way that - initially unholed at the outset of the incident - one becomes partially holed in a hole too shallow to ever threaten total enholing. The barrel of possibility is being scraped somewhat here however; my suspicion is that the above is simply an allusion to the more acceptable (dialetically speaking) "fell in a puddle" (a puddle being a hole neither "into" nor "down" which one could fall).[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 13:58, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
:"Fell into..." makes me think that he fell/tripped and instead of landing on the ground, he went into the hole. (BTW, I've lived in this house 45+ years. I've never fallen down the stairs, but I have fallen "up" them, ie. I tripped on the way up and face-planted, even though I didn't continue upwards.) [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 09:22, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I suppose "in a hole" is probably ''technically'' wrong (except for those cases where the individual in question was in a hole and then fell), but I would probably use it in speech (though maybe not more formal writing). There ''is'' a distinction between 'in' and 'down' however. When something falls down a hole, no part of it remains outside the hole. If it falls in(/to) a hole, at least some -- possibly most -- of the object remains outside the hole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.191|108.162.216.191]] 02:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

::I'd say that under the circumstances, "Fell in a hole" carries the following implications:
::That you were already "in" the hole, in some minimal sense. EG, your foot was inside a rut.
::That you then fell.
::That when you finished falling, you were 'more' in the hole than you were originally. EG, your knees and hands were now ALSO in the rut, because you landed on them.

::Whereas "Fell Down a hole" implies that the lowest point of your body, when you STARTED falling, has actually experienced significant downward motion by the time you STOPPED falling. you can't fall 'down' a hole if your foot was resting on the hole's bottom when you started out.
::[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.35|108.162.216.35]] 19:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Did anyone else notice that this comic seems to have significantly higher resolution than others? It’s especially noticeable on mobile browsers, but I haven’t tested it on PC. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.154|108.162.219.154]] 02:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I fell down a hole, and while in the hole I fell.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.42|108.162.216.42]] 03:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I guess you could fall "in" a hole without falling "down" a hole if you like...tripped into a sideways hole, like a doorway...
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.138|162.158.75.138]] 07:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd say if you mean the act of falling into the hole, you can indicate that with either 'into' or 'down' (or even both) and you could argue when to use which, but if you mean the place where you have fallen, you would use 'in'. Informally, I have heard people use 'in' as short of 'into'. On the other hand, the place where you have fallen could be "down a hole" (I have been down that hole). It now depends whether the "down" is connected to "I fell" or to "the hole". In theory, you could say "I fell down a hole down the hole" to indicate you fell down a second hole while being inside the first one.

This whole discussion is just the result of Randall doing Nerd Sniping [[356]] XD [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Someone needs to add a discussion of prescriptivist vs. descriptivist linguists -- the person in the comic is clearly a descriptivist, the pedants described in the caption would be prescriptivists. (Incidentally, [https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=49309 Language Log] posted about the comic and there's some discussion.) [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 14:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes this is saying most linguists are descriptivists, they find out what people say/write, and ask what they mean - Most linguists are descriptivists, and so are most dictionaries [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 15:09, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I predict many links to the original XKCD comic will appear in the comments of the next Tom Scott linguistics YouTube video.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.193|173.245.52.193]] 06:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

"What is it that Ponytail thinks is being said, and what should have been said to avoid misunderstanding?" <-- from the incomplete explanation box.
I don't believe that Ponytail is misunderstanding anything. Ponytail (correctly) understands that the speaker-in-a-hole is in a hole and got there by means of falling. The joke is, rather than help the person out of the hole (as just about any normal human, linguist or not, would do), Ponytail sees an opportunity to do some field research, asking whether falling down a hole means the same thing to the unseen speaker as falling in a hole, or if there are subtle differences between the two. Most, if not all, native speakers of English would understand the meaning, but as you can see from the comments here, we do _have_ subtle differences between in/into/down in this context even if they might not be used in the heat of the moment. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.219|162.158.74.219]] 13:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

This is one of the rare times that explain XKCD makes the comic seem more complicated [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.36|162.158.106.36]] 08:27, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

2083: Laptop Issues

2018-12-11T16:01:29Z

162.158.106.36: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2083
| date = December 10, 2018
| title = Laptop Issues
| image = laptop_issues.png
| titletext = Hang on, we got a call from the feds. They say we can do whatever with him, but the EPA doesn't want that laptop in the ocean. They're sending a team.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Explanations and titles thereof could be improved. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

[[Cueball]] goes to tech support with his laptop. [[Hairy]] and [[Ponytail]] are waiting behind the counter; one has dealt with [[:Category:Cueball Computer Problems|Cueball's bizarre tech issues]] before, and warns the other. Sure enough, Cueball sets the computer down and offers a detailed list of the arcane problems his computer is giving him.

; ''My laptop's battery won't hold a charge.''
: A common problem; as batteries are frequently charged and recharged, their capacity for storing charge deteriorates. However...

; ''Tried [replacing the battery]. Now the new ones won't either.''
: ...the problem persisting despite the battery's replacement fails to make any significant sense. It may be a problem with his laptop's charging port, but his comment that the "new ones" now fail to hold a charge seems to imply it is persisting despite the replacement batteries being used elsewhere after attempting to use them for his laptop and failing... Many modern batteries have firmware built in now that reports their charge level. It is possible that his laptop is installing a faulty firmware to any batteries that get connected.

; ''Also, random files get corrupted on the first of every month.''
: Some devices may be scheduled to do a "disk cleanup" on the first of every month. Somehow, this task is corrupting files that should be kept.

; ''Factory reset didn't help either.''
: A factory reset of a device deletes all files, unmakes all customizations, and generally starts the system over from square one until the only thing that isn't the way it was when they device was made is the casing. Under normal circumstances, this is an effective last-resort measure for dealing with glitches, viruses, and malware, so the fact that it doesn't offer any help towards the random corruption implies something is wrong very, very, very very very very deep in the device.

; ''When it's plugged in, I get static from my plumbing.''
: Static charge from a portable device while it's charging is common. Static charge from ''elsewhere in the building'' while the portable device is charging... not so much. However, plumbing systems on older houses were often used to provide a ground instead of using grounding rods, which are now the accepted norm. This could imply that for Cueball's house is old, and for some reason his laptop is pumping a large amount of charge directly to ground.

; ''And it reboots if someone uses an ARC welder nearby''
: The high power draw of an ARC welder will occasionally cause less devoted power supplies to flicker. Coupled with the bad battery that can not keep the computer running when the power dips, this is causing his laptop to reboot. This could also be just because the ARC welder is causing a large amount of electromagnetic interference.

; ''Transition® lenses go dark when exposed to the screen''
: Transition lenses in prescription glasses darken when exposed directly to UV rays; this is to avoid the wearer any hassle of needing prescription sunglasses. This seems to indicate that the screen of Cueball's laptop is emitting UV radiation.

; ''and when I open too many tabs, it fogs any nearby photographic film.''
: The screen would have to be emitting X-rays that can pass through the film's container and expose the film.

The sheer incongruity of everything Cueball has reported, in combination with past issues, leads Hairy to report that his manager has authorized Cueball and his laptop be thrown into the ocean so that their plague upon the earth may no longer spread. Cueball, having surrendered to his inability to use technology, accepts this without objection. This is a reference to [[1912:_Thermostat|1912: Thermostat]], where Cueball has an issue with their thermostat, and the Tech support employee asks them if they have tried walking into the sea. It seems this suggestion has evolved into forcefully throwing him into the sea, for lack of a better idea. Maybe this is a reference back to the first of Cueball's many [[:Category:Cueball Computer Problems|computer problems]] which began with [[349: Success]] where he ended up in the ocean.

The title text contains mention of the {{w|Environmental Protection Agency}}, (EPA) a part of the United States government responsible for preventing pollution. In real life, most of a laptop computer's components are considered toxic waste, and the EPA, as part of their mission, would not want it dumped in the ocean. More to the point, it's implied that whatever Cueball did to it renders it far more dangerous than an ordinary laptop, and the EPA ''really'' doesn't want his cursed possessions in the ocean; thus they are sending a [https://bit.ly/1OYyJZ6 hazmat] team to collect the laptop and safely dispose of it.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball is walking past a sign reading "Tech Support," with a right-pointing arrow and carrying a laptop.]
:Off panel voice #1: ''Oh no.''
:Off panel voice #2: ''What?''
:Off panel voice #1: ''This guy. He has the worst tech problems.''

:[Cueball at tech support desk with an open laptop facing Hairy and Ponytail.]
:Cueball: My laptop's battery won't hold a charge.
:Hairy: We can replace it.
:Cueball: Tried that. Now the new ones won't either.

:[Close-up of Cueball]
:Cueball: Also, random files get corrupted on the first day of every month. Factory reset didn't help.
:Off panel voice #2: ''You weren't kidding.''

:[Close-up of Cueball]
:Cueball: When it's plugged in, I get static shocks from my plumbing.
:Off panel voice: What the...
:Cueball: And it reboots if someone uses an arc welder nearby.

:[Same tableau as second panel except that the laptop is slightly open now.]
:Cueball: Transitions® lenses go dark when exposed to the screen, and when I open too many tabs, it fogs nearby photographic film.
:Hairy: We don't usually do this, but I've gotten permission from my manager to have you and the laptop hurled into the ocean.
:Cueball: That's probably for the best.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Cueball Computer Problems]]
[[Category:Computers]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]