explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2295: Garbage Math

2020-04-19T13:59:41Z

162.158.111.241:

== Inclusion in Series ==
This is not a Covid19 comic. One could think that this is a comment on the difficulties of modeling the corona virus outbreak, but since discussions of exponential functions are only a small part in the comic I believe it is just a general comment on floating point arithmetic mixed in with statistical considerations. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.242|108.162.229.242]] 17:28, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
:I disagree that this is not a COVID-19 comic. I also believe the one about visualizing large numbers was COVID-19 related. On the other hand, I like the idea that Randall might produce exactly 19 comics related to SARS CoViD 2019, so I'm prepared to concede the point for the sake of arbitrary numerological appeal.
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 18:42, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
::I think Exa-Exabyte was a real stretch (the virus doesn't even have DNA), but there is a tenuous link so whatever. The idea that ''this'' comic is related, on the other hand, stretches past the breaking point. There's hardly anything that can't be linked to global events if we try hard enough, but that doesn't mean there's an actual link. Sometimes a comic about garbage math is just a comic about garbage math. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.58|172.69.71.58]] 19:33, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
:::I think this one's much more likely to be a coronavirus comic than Exa-Exabyte was. There's an awful lot of COVID data, much of it either very imprecise or outright garbage; and the comic directly before this one ([[2294]]) involved bad modeling of said COVID data, so clearly COVID data (and its limitations) is something Randall's currently thinking of and drawing comics about. [[User:Pelosujamo|Pelosujamo]] ([[User talk:Pelosujamo|talk]]) 20:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Exa-Exabyte was centered around biology, which gives reason to believe it was covid19 related. This one seems much more uncertain. Any conclusion that it is related is based on garbage. Jokes aside, It seems like much more of a stretch to me. Randall thinking in those terms is a reasonable argument, but personally I am going to assume this is the chain breaker unless a direct reference is made in the next couple comics since ending at 19 is would be appropriate. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.209|172.69.70.209]]
:: While this comic has no ''direct'' reference to Covid-19 it does appear that the math might be related. At this point we can't know if the series has ended. As such I've edited the paragraph in the explanation to identify the known ambiguities. And now I realize I've made an explanatory paragraph about "knowledge error bars" in the explanation of a comic about numerical error bars.[[User:Iggynelix|Iggynelix]] ([[User talk:Iggynelix|talk]]) 14:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
:::No. The reason it appears the math might be related is ''because the math relates to everything, everywhere''. That's not enough of a connection. During this pandemic, there will be a lot of comics related to the coronavirus, many of them in a row, but that doesn't mean that every comic that could be tangentially related if you squint just right should qualify as a COVID-19 comic (I ''still'' think Exa-Exabyte doesn't). There needs to be a real link, because just about ''anything'' could be twisted into a relation if you try hard enough. As a test, I hit [[Special:Random]] and got [[346: Diet Coke+Mentos]]. Wouldn't you know, that's a coronavirus comic! The father, you see, actually had COVID-19 and died, but Diet Coke and Mentos has brought him back! No. The line should be drawn here. The streak has ended. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.197|172.69.68.197]] 17:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I agree this is not a serious contender for inclusion as a COVID comic. Although I'm pretty sure Randall has input to COVID19 models as garbage on his mind. But there is nothing in this comic that suggest this math be used on a pandemic. The exa byte is a different story as it is about how much of biology we cannot know or control in the midst of a lot of comics about some new biology we do not control. I do not expect that this will end the covid19 series, but I will consent that even if the next comic is a clear corona comic, it will no longer be an unbroken streak. Anyway the real streak ended at the end of March with the late April Fool's comic. I also do not at all think that the coke mentos could be seen as a COVID19 comic, that is just bulls**t trying to prove a point that I believe you fail completely. I also tried random comic (I like the idea) and found [[1208: Footnote Labyrinths]]. It is a scientific paper (with nested footnotes) and given science, we could say it was about science about Corona. Naah. But for the same reason this comic should not be considered corona. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

== Math and Error bars ==

Well this is surprising came here thinking I understood it just to see what the discussion looked like. Ended up learning something new. I was able to understand intuitively the comic. But this is my first exposure to actually doing math on the error bars. I think I was supposed to do that in college but I don't remember anyone ever explaining how it should work. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.208|162.158.63.208]] 18:14, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

In recent days, there have been a number of math "quizzes" in this same type of format, albeit generally with only addition and maybe multiplication, appearing on Facebook. Should the explanation include a reference to this as a possible contributing reason for Randall's comic? One could also argue that those quizzes have been appearing on Facebook as a way to spend/waste time during the coronavirus pandemic lock-down, making he comic at least tangentially related to Covid19 LIES.
:: Unsigned vandalism? /\ [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2295:_Garbage_Math&diff=190866&oldid=190856 change history] @user Please feel free to move your discussion to an appropriate forum and remove both the edit and this comment at such time. [[User:Iggynelix|Iggynelix]] ([[User talk:Iggynelix|talk]])

What's the difference between relative error and absolute error? I don't understand these terms. Maybe add?
: Absolute error is the amount of uncertainty in a value measured as a given number. e.g. 5.7 ± 1.2 means that actual value lies somewhere between 5.7 - 1.2 and 5.7 + 1.2 = 4.5 to 6.9. If you change the 5.7 to another value, you still get the same absolute difference of maximum and minimum values. Relative error depends on the value you are comparing to. e.g. 5.7 ± 10% would be between 5.7 - 0.57 and 5.7 + 0.57 = 5.13 to 6.27. The absolute difference of maximum and minimum would change if the main number changes. e.g. 11.3 ± 10% would be between 10.17 and 12.43, which has a greater absolute difference of maximum and minimum than the previous example. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 01:54, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Are all of these equations consistent with garbage = infinity?
: Unfortunately, as written, these equations would not make sense by defining Garbage as an infinity. Infinity is not a number you can count to or measure in between integers. Infinity is the idea of unending-ness. Trying to use infinity as if it a finite number yields all sorts of invalid results. In this case Garbage is defined as an arbitrary finite number with a large amount of uncertainty in its value. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 01:40, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
::: That's a pretty good definition of 'garbage' in ''any'' case, plus or minus 10%. ( See also [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/landfill-mining-recycling-eurelco/ valuable garbage]) [[User:Iggynelix|Iggynelix]] ([[User talk:Iggynelix|talk]]) 14:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Would the summation divided by ''n'' just give you the arithmatic mean of the data set? [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 01:55, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
:Pretty much, but the point is probably more that (without consistent bias across the set, just 'random' errors for each item) it suppresses the degree of garbagicity as outliers are increasingly nullified by the greater number of more competently accurate values and (if it's a symmetric error) opposing outliers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.222|162.158.34.222]] 09:29, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The statement that NaN^0 isn't fully justified and I'm not clear it belongs. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 18:46, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
: I agree... It also isn't evident to me that this comic has anything to do with floating-point math, which is the only thing that could (even slimly) justify its inclusion. This is about statistics, not programming. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.12|108.162.215.12]] 05:25, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm concerned that, with "Precise Number" there's the usual confusion between Accuracy and Precision. A precise number can still be utter garbage, as 84.7489327(646475)% of all mathematicians could tell you. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.241|162.158.111.241]] 13:59, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

1723: Meteorite Identification

2020-04-12T12:29:45Z

162.158.111.241: dead link replaced

{{comic
| number = 1723
| date = August 22, 2016
| title = Meteorite Identification
| image = meteorite_identification.png
| titletext = Click for an actual flowchart for identifying a meteorite. My favorite part is how 'Did someone see it fall? -> Yes' points to 'NOT A METEORITE.' This is not a mistake.
}}

'''Note:''' Clicking on the image on xkcd (click the date above the comic to go to the comic on xkcd) takes you to the (now defunct, mirror [http://imgur.com/a/RNYQ7 here]) ''[http://meteorites.wustl.edu/check-list.htm Meteorite or meteorwrong? Self-Test Check list]'' flow chart at the [http://eps.wustl.edu/ Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences] at {{w|Washington University in St. Louis}}. Now also defunct see https://www.geeksaresexy.net/2016/08/25/meteorite-meteorwrong-self-test-check-list-flowchart/

==Explanation==
{{w|Meteorite}}s form when a {{w|meteoroid}} survives entrance through the Earth's atmosphere as a {{w|Meteoroid#Meteors|meteor}}. Thus, they are very rare rocks that come from space, and can stem from broken {{w|asteroids}}, the {{w|Moon}}, and sometimes (very rarely) even from {{w|Mars}}.

The {{w|flowchart}}, though facetious, would actually work the vast majority of the time a person picks up a rock and believes it to be a meteorite, since any single rock one finds on the surface of the earth is almost definitely not a meteorite.

Flowcharts are often used ([[:Category:Flowcharts|in xkcd]]) to give the inexperienced a step-by-step process to follow (see a guide to flowcharts here: [[518: Flow Charts]]). Meteorite identification, however, is very difficult, so the brevity of this flowchart in a way pokes fun at the need for a flowchart to identify meteorites, since laypeople are not experienced enough to confirm that a rock is indeed a meteorite. A similar short flowchart as this has been used recently in [[1691: Optimization]], and another only two box chart was used in [[1195: Flowchart]].

In the title text [[Randall]] mentions that the comic image is a link to the more detailed (now defunct, mirror [http://imgur.com/a/RNYQ7 here]) ''[http://meteorites.wustl.edu/check-list.htm Meteorite or meteorwrong? Self-Test Check list]'' flowchart at the [http://eps.wustl.edu/ Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences] at {{w|Washington University in St. Louis}}.

The authors of those resources notes that they have received many rock samples and photos (or even personal visits) from people claiming to have discovered meteorites and thus they would likely benefit from just providing people the shortcut flowchart from Randall, as a way of saying, "leave meteorite identification to the professionals."

Randall also mentions in the title text that his favorite part of this real flowchart, which is the part where if anyone saw the "meteor" fall then it is 'NOT A METEORITE.' What he most likes about it is that this is not a mistake.

First of all the chance of actually being near a falling meteorite is exceedingly small. From the flowchart was a link to a 64 point long checklist, which basically all ends in "..., then it's not a meteorite." In point 3 is noted the following:
:Since 1900, the numbers of recognized meteorite "falls" is about 690 for the whole Earth. That's 6.3 per year. Only 98 of those occurred in the US. That's less than 1 per year. Even when a meteorite is observed to fall, experienced meteorite hunters may find only a few stones when hunting dawn to dusk for a week.

Second, meteors that can be seen falling almost definitely cannot be found on the ground immediately after. Any meteor big enough to glow and be visible while falling all the way to the ground will leave a large impact crater, rather than simply sit on the ground as a rock. Smaller meteors do not fall fast enough to glow all the way to the ground. Either they will burn up completely (not leaving any meteorite) or they will be slowed down before they burn all the way up (but typically end up much smaller than the original meteoroid). After that they will stop glowing and will brake even further until they reach a {{w|terminal velocity}} due to air resistance. Their small size, and lack of glow, make them practically impossible to follow with the naked eye even in daylight. If a person stands close by the impact location of a meteor it may be possible to hear a swish and a thunk, from when it passes by and then hit the ground. It will then be possible to locate the meteorite, but such a falling stone could also have been dropped from an airplane or by a storm. But in some few cases people have actually heard a real meteor falling and found it afterwards. This is what happened with the 690 events mentioned above. All this is described on [http://www.meteoritemarket.com/metid2.htm How to Identify a Meteorite] from [http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ The Meteorite Market] which is linked in point 48 in the table from Washington University. But they did not see it fall!

What Randall finds so funny about this part of the flowchart is that there are three arrows leading to the question "Did someone see it fall?", but from there only a "Yes" option is possible, and then this gives the result "Not a meteorite." This indicates that if you have found a rock that has no dark crust or [http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/regmaglypts.htm regmaglypts] (the options that by saying no takes the user to the question about seeing it fall), then it is not a meteorite, and then the only reason people might still believe it to be a meteorite must be because someone saw it fall and assumed it came from space (rather than more likely scenarios, such as a stone coming loose from a cliff or building, or being dropped by a bird or aircraft).

If the rock actually has those thumbprint like impressions on the surface (that scientists call {{w|Glossary of meteoritics#Regmaglypts|regmaglypts}}) then the creator of the flowchart actually asks to see the rock (photo or sample). The other features that are interesting is if it has a dark thin crust (from the melting during entry), but only if it also has either regmaglypts or if it has a lighter color inside than the outer crust.

See also [[1405: Meteor]] about how people mistake the words meteorite with meteor. The many misspellings of meteorite is mentioned in point 63 in the table.

==Transcript==
:[A caption is above a flowchart with only two boxes. The first box is a diamond shaped box with an arrow down to the next rectangular box below. Each box has a text.]
:How to identify a possible meteorite:
:Start
:No, it's not a meteorite.

==Trivia==
*In December 2012 (almost four years before this comic) a flowchart was posted under the title ''[http://www.mindat.org/forum.php?read,11,279733,279733#msg-279733 Meteorite identification flowchart]'' on [http://www.mindat.org/ mindat.org] a page dedicated to sharing information about minerals. (Check the attached gif file).
**The user posting this earlier flowchart ([http://www.mindat.org/user-1.html Jolyon]) seems to have posted a note in the [[Talk:1723:_Meteorite_Identification|discussion]] on this page about the fact that Randall has "borrowed" his idea.
***He later added this: UPDATE: I have heard from Randall and we're sorting things out.
**Randall did so later, because when the comic was originally released the message at the top of the page was [http://web.archive.org/web/20160826002155/http://xkcd.com/1723/ the standard] about the release days of xkcd.
**But no later than September 1st [http://web.archive.org/web/20160903154053/https://xkcd.com/1723/ this message] had been changed to:
***Note: Jolyon, founder of [http://www.mindat.org/ mindat.org], made a similar chart way before me!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Flowcharts]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

2215: Faculty:Student Ratio

2020-03-25T16:09:30Z

162.158.111.241:

{{comic
| number = 2215
| date = October 14, 2019
| title = Faculty:Student Ratio
| image = faculty_student_ratio.png
| titletext = They managed to briefly hit the top of the rankings when they rejected everyone except one applicant, published 5 billion research papers that just said "Hi," and hired one of their graduates for $50 trillion/year (then fired them after 10 microseconds.)
}}

==Explanation==
Created by the XKCD UNIVERSITY ADMISSIONS DEPARTMENT.

Universities are often rated in various ways to help students/parents pick which one to attend. This comic satirizes the very real culture of schools modifying their actions to artificially inflate their ratings. One metric used in ratings is the {{w|Student–teacher ratio|ratio between the number of faculty members to the number of students}}. Typically this is expressed as student-teacher ratio, which normally determines how much time teachers get to spend with individual students. The lower the ratio, i.e., the fewer students per teacher, the smaller classes teachers have to teach, and thus the more attention the teachers can give to each student. However, having many more teachers than student(s), as in this comic, is not very beneficial to the student(s). (For context for international readers, high student-teacher ratios are common and expected in the United States, Randall's home country, whereas some nations especially in Asia sometimes report much lower ratios, often close to 1:1 in some areas.)

Another metric commonly used to measure a college's exclusivity and therefore prestige is the college's rejection rate; more prestigious schools get more applicants, and since they can accept only a limited number, they must reject many. Less prestigious schools often accept a higher fraction of their applicants, but some schools will reject students whose test scores, résumé, etc. are much higher than average for the school, since it's likely that college is a "safety school" and the student won't actually go there. This rejection can decrease the school's acceptance rate and make it appear more prestigious. However, if the above-average student does want to attend that school, they are unable to, even though it would be good for both the college and the student.

{{w|Proprietary colleges|For-profit universities}} and {{w|diploma mills}} may use techniques like this to artificially boost their ratings, or use fabricated metrics and {{w|accreditation mills}} to give an inflated appearance of value. {{w|Predatory publishing|Predatory publishers}} and conferences are other techniques used to inflate the perceived value of a school, or to pad curriculum vitae.

In the title text, other metrics are skewed in the school's favor:

*Having a high standard for entry is usually associated with better or high-prestige schools; however, this is subverted by the fact that the school has only one student per class. A class of one would make (at least for most students) for a poor educational experience{{Citation needed}}, and even if it were a good academic environment, it could only benefit one student per year, which means the school would only have a very modest impact on the world.

*A high number of research papers would normally indicate a high level of scientific research at the school; however, ''these'' research papers have no real content in them, and are all identical, rather missing the point of a research paper - namely, to make the scientific community aware of new research.

*A high hiring rate (percentage of students that have gotten a job after education) and a high average salary after graduation is favorable, as it is one goal for many students attending college. However, the school in question artificially inflates these metrics by having all (one out of one) of their student body be hired by them, producing a 100% hiring rate, and giving them a starting salary that is astronomically high, but not giving them enough employment time to actually gain very much income. $50 trillion/year for 10 microseconds is approximately $15.85 (= $50e12 / (365 * 24 * 60 * 60) * 10e-6) if pay is assumed to be spread constantly over the full 365 days of the year. Assuming fifty-two 40-hour work weeks would make this <abbr title="$66.77=$50e12 / (52 * 5 * 8 * 60 * 60) * 10e-6">$66.77</abbr>. Since xkcd originates in the USA, trillion [[2091: Million, Billion, Trillion|most likely means]] 1e12 (i.e., {{w|Long and short scales|short scale}}), as compared to 1e18 (long scale interpretation).

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is sitting hunched over a desk writing while ten people crowd around him, five on each side, all leaning towards him. On the left side they are Hairbun, a Cueball-like man, Hairy, Megan - who speaks, and another Cueball-like man. On the right are Ponytail, a third Cueball-like man, another Megan-like woman, Blondie and finally a fourth Cueball-like man.]
:Megan: How's the work going?
:Cueball: Can you all at least stand back a little?

:[Caption below the panel]:
:My school tried to game the ratings by having a 30:1 faculty:student ratio

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category: Research Papers]]

2215: Faculty:Student Ratio

2020-03-25T16:08:30Z

162.158.111.241:

{{comic
| number = 2215
| date = October 14, 2019
| title = Faculty:Student Ratio
| image = faculty_student_ratio.png
| titletext = They managed to briefly hit the top of the rankings when they rejected everyone except one applicant, published 5 billion research papers that just said "Hi," and hired one of their graduates for $50 trillion/year (then fired them after 10 microseconds.)
}}

==Explanation==
{{|Created by the XKCD UNIVERSITY ADMISSIONS DEPARTMENT. This explanation needs a discussion of how different forms of instruction modify the effective student-teacher ratio.}}

Universities are often rated in various ways to help students/parents pick which one to attend. This comic satirizes the very real culture of schools modifying their actions to artificially inflate their ratings. One metric used in ratings is the {{w|Student–teacher ratio|ratio between the number of faculty members to the number of students}}. Typically this is expressed as student-teacher ratio, which normally determines how much time teachers get to spend with individual students. The lower the ratio, i.e., the fewer students per teacher, the smaller classes teachers have to teach, and thus the more attention the teachers can give to each student. However, having many more teachers than student(s), as in this comic, is not very beneficial to the student(s). (For context for international readers, high student-teacher ratios are common and expected in the United States, Randall's home country, whereas some nations especially in Asia sometimes report much lower ratios, often close to 1:1 in some areas.)

Another metric commonly used to measure a college's exclusivity and therefore prestige is the college's rejection rate; more prestigious schools get more applicants, and since they can accept only a limited number, they must reject many. Less prestigious schools often accept a higher fraction of their applicants, but some schools will reject students whose test scores, résumé, etc. are much higher than average for the school, since it's likely that college is a "safety school" and the student won't actually go there. This rejection can decrease the school's acceptance rate and make it appear more prestigious. However, if the above-average student does want to attend that school, they are unable to, even though it would be good for both the college and the student.

{{w|Proprietary colleges|For-profit universities}} and {{w|diploma mills}} may use techniques like this to artificially boost their ratings, or use fabricated metrics and {{w|accreditation mills}} to give an inflated appearance of value. {{w|Predatory publishing|Predatory publishers}} and conferences are other techniques used to inflate the perceived value of a school, or to pad curriculum vitae.

In the title text, other metrics are skewed in the school's favor:

*Having a high standard for entry is usually associated with better or high-prestige schools; however, this is subverted by the fact that the school has only one student per class. A class of one would make (at least for most students) for a poor educational experience{{Citation needed}}, and even if it were a good academic environment, it could only benefit one student per year, which means the school would only have a very modest impact on the world.

*A high number of research papers would normally indicate a high level of scientific research at the school; however, ''these'' research papers have no real content in them, and are all identical, rather missing the point of a research paper - namely, to make the scientific community aware of new research.

*A high hiring rate (percentage of students that have gotten a job after education) and a high average salary after graduation is favorable, as it is one goal for many students attending college. However, the school in question artificially inflates these metrics by having all (one out of one) of their student body be hired by them, producing a 100% hiring rate, and giving them a starting salary that is astronomically high, but not giving them enough employment time to actually gain very much income. $50 trillion/year for 10 microseconds is approximately $15.85 (= $50e12 / (365 * 24 * 60 * 60) * 10e-6) if pay is assumed to be spread constantly over the full 365 days of the year. Assuming fifty-two 40-hour work weeks would make this <abbr title="$66.77=$50e12 / (52 * 5 * 8 * 60 * 60) * 10e-6">$66.77</abbr>. Since xkcd originates in the USA, trillion [[2091: Million, Billion, Trillion|most likely means]] 1e12 (i.e., {{w|Long and short scales|short scale}}), as compared to 1e18 (long scale interpretation).

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is sitting hunched over a desk writing while ten people crowd around him, five on each side, all leaning towards him. On the left side they are Hairbun, a Cueball-like man, Hairy, Megan - who speaks, and another Cueball-like man. On the right are Ponytail, a third Cueball-like man, another Megan-like woman, Blondie and finally a fourth Cueball-like man.]
:Megan: How's the work going?
:Cueball: Can you all at least stand back a little?

:[Caption below the panel]:
:My school tried to game the ratings by having a 30:1 faculty:student ratio

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category: Research Papers]]

2009: Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram

2018-06-20T21:19:05Z

162.158.111.241:

{{comic
| number = 2009
| date = June 20, 2018
| title = Hertzsprung-Russell Diagram
| image = hertzsprung_russell_diagram.png
| titletext = The Hertzsprung-Russell diagram is located in its own lower right corner, unless you're viewing it on an unusually big screen.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a RED GIANT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The {{w|Hertzsprung–Russell diagram}} is a scatterplot showing absolute luminosities of stars against its effective temperature or color. It's generally used to understand a star's age.

The axes are labeled in {{w|Kelvin}} (degrees {{w|Celsius}} above {{w|absolute zero}}) for {{w|effective temperature}} and, in a unlike many Hertzsprung–Russell diagrams, {{w|Watts}} for {{w|luminosity}}. While most Hertzsprung–Russell diagrams are labelled in units of {{w|solar luminosity}} or {{w|absolute magnitude}}, all three are perfectly valid measures of {{w|luminosity}}, which refers to the total power emitted by the star (or other body). {{w|Effective temperature}} refers to temperature of a blackbody with the same surface area and luminosity. This is meant to provide an estimate of the surface temperature of the object.

Regular Hertzsprung–Russell diagrams start at about 1000K and what is labeled on this diagram as 1021 watts—i.e. the upper-left corner. This diagram has been extended to lower magnitudes on both axes. The joke comes from the absurdity of showing tiny (at least compared to stars) and often mundane objects on a diagram meant for stars.

Though not included in the diagram, the title text notes that the screen displaying the diagram would probably be plotted somewhere in the lower right corner due to its (relatively) low brightness and heat output. Bigger screens have a higher power output (both in terms of luminosity and temperature) and are thus positioned further towards the diagram's upper left corner. An "unusually big screen" would have to be impractically big (possibly continent- or planet-sized) in order for its luminosity/temperature coordinates to be located outside of the lower right corner.

{| class="wikitable"
!Item
!Effective Temperature
!Luminosity
!Explanation
|-
|Betelgeuse
|3000 k
|1031 W
|
|-
|Vega
|10,000 K
|1027 W
|
|-
|Sun
|6000 K
|~1026 W
|
|-
|Proxima Centauri
|
|
|
|-
|HD 189733b
|
|
|
|-
|Interior of a hydrogen bomb during detonation
|~108 K
|
|
|-
|Jupiter
|
|
|
|-
|Venus
|
|
|
|-
|Earth
|
|
|
|-
|Mars
|
|
|
|-
|Moon
|
|
|
|-
|Nuclear Fireball
|
|
|
|-
|France
|
|
|
|-
|Europa
|
|
|
|-
|Lightning Bolt
|
|
|
|-
|Ivanpah Solar Plant Salt Tank
|
|
|
|-
|Medium-sized Lava Lake
|
|
|
|-
|Cruise Ship
|
|
|
|-
|Campfire
|
|
|
|-
|Blue Whale
|
|
|
|-
|Arc Lamp
|
|
|
|-
|Lightbulb
|
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==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1756: I'm With Her

2018-01-10T00:39:04Z

162.158.111.241:

During the first few weeks there were so much trolling on this talk page, and it became very long. Now almost no one makes any comment anymore because it is hard to get started with all the negative comment. To help with this I will try to collapse all the original talk from 2016 (which was also done [[Talk:1350:_Lorenz|once before]] althogh the length problem came from a different reason). It will always be possible to see all the old comments by pressing the expand button below here and to the far right. Feel free to comment below (and also in the old commentaries of course) - But now someone might actually again notice that there has been written something new! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:29, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

'''Click to expand for comments from 2016:'''
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed leftAlign" style="width:100%">

The "I'm with her" and H with an arrow are CLEARLY the respective campaign slogan and campaign logo for Hillary Clinton, not some vagueness having to do with bringing a significant other. {{unsigned ip|173.245.48.78}}
:I see it more as him endorsing voting regardless of who you vote for (as evidenced by half the comic is about "Here's how you vote" without any mention of candidates or issues) and the endorsing Clinton part is an add-on as if to say "This is how I'm voting; vote for her if you agree with me." [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 18:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:If you're so insecure about your political beliefs that you abandon a comic you've followed for years just because they have a different opinion to you then maybe you should stop using the internet because you're just going to lose all your hobbies. {{unsigned ip|148.197.114.136}}
:I am not insecure about my political beliefs. I am just upset at the continued and active support of our two party system and the suppression of anyone not in those parties.. It ought to make everyone here very angry (even if you support Hillary). Most Americans would rather have Bernie than Hillary. Most Americans would rather have Kasich than Trump. Insult me all you want, I will not put up with this complacency any more.--[[User:Dayfall|Dayfall]] ([[User talk:Dayfall|talk]]) 21:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Blocking it from their router? Have they ever heard of the concept of... you know, just not visiting websites they dislike? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.253|141.101.98.253.-730².♫.venus.🍅.Cthulu.♣️]] 19:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Has Randall endorsed a presidential candidate before? --[[User:Dfeuer|Dfeuer]] ([[User talk:Dfeuer|talk]]) 17:14, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:He supported Obama on his blog in '08, not in the comic though. {{unsigned ip|162.158.214.230}}

He could have said any number of clever things about the election, and all he did was put up a campaign sign. Disappointing. [[User:Gmcgath|Gmcgath]] ([[User talk:Gmcgath|talk]]) 17:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:I'm hoping Wednesday will be a newspaper saying "American immigration continues north" and below, "40% of the population move to Canada", but only if Trump wins.{{unsigned|Jacky720}}

what a cuck --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.63|172.68.51.63]] 17:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: leaving aside the most ridiculous slur of the past few years, I don't know what else did you expect from Randall. I guess you must have stumbled upon this wiki by chance and have never heard of xkcd before.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 17:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: AHAHAHAHA. *Ahem.* Hooray for pejorative misappropriation of a kink. /s [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.55|108.162.246.55]] 19:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

This is the first time I still don't get the joke even after reading the explainxkcd page [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.123|108.162.219.123]] 18:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:It isn't a joke. [[Randall]] is simply encouraging people to vote. [[User:GizmoDude|GizmoDude]] ([[User talk:GizmoDude|talk]]) 20:55, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

:¬I Ummmmmmmmm..... It's Randall's comic strip. He can endorse whomever he wants without getting anyone's permission first. To those who disagree with this endorsement - sowhat? Grow up. {{unsigned ip|108.162.238.42}}

;Bit disappointing...

I was hoping for a comic today. oh well. Interesting to see how he's planning to vote, though - it's a shame that there are no candidates this year in favor of strong encryption. {{unsigned ip|172.68.55.80}}

Funny how females outdo males in this 'comic' but in terms of frequency and of elevation. Oh well. xkcd has long been overrepresenting females, it was to be expected. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:Seriously? You're whinging 'what about the men?' in a geek web comic?! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.212|108.162.215.212]] 18:21, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::And there are 11 characters and they are split 5 to 6, and if Blondie represents Clinton then there are 5 to 5 M vs W supporters. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:"Overrepresenting"?! If there were too many guys you wouldn't bat an eye because it's 'accurate' to whatever demographic you think xkcd is supposed to represent, but as soon as Randall draws 'too many women' you whinge about the oppression of men. First off, even if the readership is male-dominated, that doesn't have any impact on who the comic can portray. Second, there is nothing oppressive about seeing women portrayed in equal numbers or -heaven forbid- in positions of power.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.118.191|172.68.118.191]] 00:28, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: >If there were too many guys you wouldn't bat an eye because it's 'accurate' to whatever demographic you think
:: You are literally a priori accusing me of bias regarding what I would have done in a comparable situation.
:: >you think xkcd is supposed to represent
:: xkcd's focus is exceedingly well-defined. It is often narrowed down to a particular academic field. It is not subjective.
:: >you whinge about the oppression of men
:: Please refrain from putting such words in my mouth. Overrepresentation is a numerical fact -- 'oppression' is a charged term which I doubt has a valid definition.
:: >even if the readership is male-dominated, that doesn't have any impact on who the comic can portray
:: You seem to be implying that my mention of overrepresentation pertains to overrepresentation with respect to viewership rather than with respect of gender balance in scientific fields Randall depicts.
:: >there is nothing oppressive about seeing women portrayed in equal numbers or -heaven forbid- in positions of power
:: Again, you are seeing claims of 'oppression' that are not there. I do not use this word -- I am talking strictly about gender quantity. In other words, I don't object to 'oppression', but to distortion of truth. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
:::Oh shit, you're not joking. I don't think Randall cared in the slightest how many of each gender there were, or where they were placed. You are creating a problem which isn't there, and missing what the comic is actually trying to say. It appears that whatever Randall puts in a comic, you'll find a problem with it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 09:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: Almost every comic depicting a scientific (academic, laboratory, engineering) context contains a female. As a matter of fact, I looked up the last 20 or so comics in the Science category. Where applicable, the gender proportion is:
:::::f = 4, m = 0
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 0
:::::f = 0, m = 2
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 1
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 1
:::::f = 0, m = 1
:::::f = 3, m = 1
:::::total: f = 17, = 10
:::: It is even more glaring that I had thought.
::::>It appears that whatever Randall puts in a comic, you'll find a problem with it.
::::You are making it hard not to conclude that you are not quite able to speak otherwise than in irrelevant falsehoods. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
:::::Like I said, Randall doesn't seem to concentrate on how gender is represented, and more on what the comic is about. Randall uses whatever fits best in each comic. Also, please refrian from using nowiki on "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" as your signature. It is against the rules, because technically your comment ends in "</nowiki>". It is also pointless, because your IP is recorded in edit history anyway. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 12:19, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::: 'Randall doesn't seem to concentrate on how gender is represented' -- it is quite remarkable for you to say so when the balance is significantly more than 1.5 : 1. As for my signature, 'my comment ending in </nowiki>' is literally false and, again, my choice of it is not intended to obscure my identity, but to signify irrelevance of it in discussion. <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152 }}
:::::::Your trolling is out of hand. It doesn't matter about relevance of your signature in discussion, you have to sign your comments. If you feel so strongly about it, just stop reading Randall's comics. I don't think he'll care if you stop. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.62|162.158.2.62]] 23:21, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::::: So this is your reaction to the hypocrisy of a comic majorly about science distorting truth (literally -- the female overrepresentation is not, contrary to how another poster presented it, in service to humour/plot, it is just there): 'just don't read it if you don't like it'. This is not tenable. You could 'justify' any wrongdoing this way: 'just don't react, what does it concern you'. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:::::::::You cannot justify anything with that, only things that don't actually affect anyone in any significant way. Randall is using his right to freedom of speech, and you have no right trying to stop that. And before you argue that I am trying to stop you, realise that I am only giving my opinion in the hopes yours will change. Also, you ''still'' haven't addressed why you don't sign your comments properly. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 11:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
: As for my signature, I have addressed it -- you just ignored my explanation, beside implying that it was I who brought its subject in the first place rather than you ('It doesn't matter about relevance of your signature in discussion').
: >things that don't actually affect anyone in any significant way
: 'Not any significant' is a subjective claim rather than objective quantification such as the one I made to point out Randall's gender bias. xkcd has vast readership. In fact, it is *the first result* for the keyword >webcomic in Google.
: >Randall is using his right to freedom of speech.
: This is completely bizarre. You are appealing to free speech to justify *telling falsehoods*.
: >and you have no right trying to stop that
: This is completely bizarre as well. What kind of 'right' are you talking about that I lack? Are you saying that people have no right to point out, condemn, and demand rectification of falsehoods? This is surreal. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::The guy was clearly referring to your earlier statement that you were, quote, "signifying irrelevance it in discussion." Also, as the admin who's been having to clean up after your refusal to write a signature without nowiki tags, I'm getting really sick of this. The signature tag is not there for you to disregard it to make an artistic statement about metadata in forums, it's there to mark time, ownership and the boundaries between comments. You're making extra work for me for a trivial excuse. Sign your comments properly. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:31, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::: 'Time' and 'ownership' are never relevant. All they can ever conceivably serve for is pointing out misattributions of contributions from one poster to another, which holds precisely zero weight for the argument. If your point stands, it stands. If it doesn't, it doesn't. This -- validity of the point -- is the only consideration in discussion, the purpose of which is conveying knowledge. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that it is the form of the argument (such as who made which comment) that matters rather than its substance. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::::I'm not going to be able to convince you that the metadata is meaningful, so let's put this a different way. I didn't put up three different signs around the talk page box so that someone could try to be clever and make me do the work anyway by signing off slightly wrong. You and I both know why the messages tell you to sign off with four tildes. Typing the four tildes without the nowiki tags takes strictly less time than adding the nowiki tags. There is no discussion being suppressed because of the metadata. I've wasted five minutes of my life typing out the unsigned comment template multiple times when it was clear to me that you knew how to sign and wilfully weren't. Sign your comments properly. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:59, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::::: >I'm not going to be able to convince you that the metadata is meaningful
::::: Metadata is obviously meaningful for statistical/record-keeping purposes, and guess what, that is provided by the edit history. In direct discussion view, it is actively damaging, in all senses, from visual distraction (cluttering the page) to topical distraction (distracting into discussion of particular posters, including chaff such as squabbling over who said what).
::::: >make me do the work anyway
::::: I am not going to validate a misconception that is harmful to discussion only so to spare you the effort you impose on yourself by erroneously clinging to it. It would be irresponsible towards this community. I tried my best to explain your mistake to you. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.141}}
::::::In case you didn't get the subtext from my last comment, I'm invoking site rules that are littered in multiple places around the edit window. Browsing edit logs to find ownership of a comment is incredibly time consuming, and signatures take a fraction of a line to display the information inline. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: So basically what you are saying is 'I am not wrong on account of having codified my being wrong into a rule'. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
::::::::No, that is your opinion of a rule falsely inserted into a statement that sounds like I'm saying it. Less than a hundred characters of timestamp and attribution serves to mark out who actually said what and the benefits to organisation and knowing who is actually saying what far outweigh the character count delta between completed signatures and your intentionally un-rendered tildes. The rule is not a suggestion, and the only thing stopping me from temporarily blocking you to enforce the rule is that I know your IP address is changing between sessions. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 03:42, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::::: >No, that is your opinion of a rule falsely inserted into a statement that sounds like I'm saying it.
::::::::: ...What? You literally said that signing is a rule here, and I literally agreed and pointed out that that rule is based on a misunderstanding.
::::::::: >the benefits to organisation and knowing who is actually saying what
::::::::: ...facilitate nothing but petty squabbles over authorship of contributions rather than focusing on points therein. The only one of the three benefits to signing you gave at one point that is valid is separation of comments, except that isn't even provided by signing, but by indentation/semi-indentation of colons/quotation marks, respectively, to which signing is, guess what, completely unrelated. If anything, my refusal to sign 'properly' has helped my detractors, giving them an opportunity to attempt to undermine my credibility by repeatedly asking me 'why are you not signing properly?' as if I hadn't explained that two if not three times already. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::::::What you literally did was put a statement in quotation marks that featured me saying I was wrong and using a tautological rule to to justify it. You believe that identity is irrelevant to discussion, which is disputed in discussions of community management and {{w|Wikipedia:Signatures#Purpose_of_signatures|wikipedia itself}} as the forced ownership encourages a user to remain civil; and I can't help but notice that you are indeed involved in a number of spats on this page. The furthest point of this would be mandatory account creation to edit pages, which I've fought against in the past and don't want to have to instate if anonymous users with changing IPs continue to be difficult to moderate. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:30, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::: >using a tautological rule to to justify it
::::::::::: >which is disputed in discussions of community management and wikipedia itself
::::::::::: So you are calling my 100 % verifiable points regarding consequences of presence/absence of signing on poster behaviour tautological, while yourself appealing to authority to Wikipedia ('Wikipedia requires signing, therefore I do too') in lieu of an argument? You have some fucking nerve as well.
::::::::::: >if anonymous users with changing IPs continue to be difficult to moderate
::::::::::: This sounds curiously like preemption, 'let's keep him from posting in case he should offend'.
::::::::::: >the forced ownership encourages a user to remain civil; and I can't help but notice that you are indeed involved in a number of spats on this page
::::::::::: You mean those containing such examples of signing posters' civility as referring to me as 'finding problems with everything', having a 'twisted mind', saying that 'xkcd is as bad as KKK', 'horrible person', 'afraid of women', 'belonging in 18th century', and 'afraid to sign properly'? I agree, civility such as that is quite effective at rendering a picture of effectiveness of signing on discussion quality. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::::::::I'm not actually making a living off this. I'm not willing to keep making points that you'll brush off as false and state your own claims as true, then still have to clean up after you and the other anonymous users with changing IPs on this page. I should have known this comic was going to be a moderation nightmare when it went up. I have work to do, this talk page is now locked for anonymous users. If you want to continue ignoring site rules, you and the other people on this talk page who I can't seem to manage can make accounts to do so. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:53, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::It's not telling a falsehood if it's an opinion. There are more women than men in some of his recent comics, that's an opinion. He is not saying that this is what the real world is like. And it is objectively not significant, because it is easy to stop reading his comics, no one is forcing you to read them. Just because it is the first result on Google, doesn't mean that suddenly no other webcomics exist. You can look down a few pixels, and see something completely different. There are far worse problems on the internet. Why single out someone using women more than men, rather than someone who believes that there is a superior sex? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.62|162.158.2.62]] 23:25, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::: >it is objectively not significant
::: I have taken note that you have shifted from asserting existence of high and low significance ('in any significant way', implying gradation) to asserting existence of categorical absolute insignificance ('objectively not significant').
::: >There are more women than men in some of his recent comics, that's an opinion.
::: Where the hell are you people getting this kind of nonsense from? Depicting a fictitious state of matters is an opinion?
::: >He is not saying that this is what the real world is like.
::: Literally false. There is no indication whatsoever that the overrepresentation of females has a humorous or otherwise irreal or optative dimension. The females are depicted as being self-obviously natural at their positions.
::: >There are far worse problems on the internet.
::: This is not relevant in addition to being a subjective opinion (speaking of dispensing which).
::: >because it is easy to stop reading his comics, no one is forcing you to read them. Just because it is the first result on Google, doesn't mean that suddenly no other webcomics exist. You can look down a few pixels, and see something completely different
::: I am honestly bewildered by your repeated reliance on this clearly morally untenable nonsense. 'If something is wrong, just stop watching.' It's stunning.
::: >Why single out someone using women more than men, rather than someone who believes that there is a superior sex?
::: Randall does depict the latter conviction in the comic AS WELL (search the page for my 'Men in xkcd literally are presented as the less educated gender.'). <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
::::There being less men than women in scientific comics does not signify in any way that women are smarter than men, except in your twisted mind. You say that "there are far worse things on the internet" is subjective, so I suppose the KKK is just as bad as xkcd. That was not intended to say anything about xkcd, but something about yourself. You choose to argue some possible slight sexism, rather than definite and horrible racism. You won't see anything wrong with what you're saying until you see what you are doing now. Also, I redid your table, looking at the past 20 comics in the science section.
::::{| {{table}}
| style="background:#c0c0c0;"|'''Number'''||1736||1732||1717||1679||1666||1664||1643||1637||1633||1621||1611||1606||1605||1594||1592||1591||1584||1574||1561||1531||style="background:#c0c0c0;"|'''Total'''
|-
| style="background:#c0c0f0;"|M||1||0||2||0||1||1||1||1||0||0||0||0||1||0||2||1||8||0||0||0||style="background:#c0c0f0;"|'''19'''
|-
| style="background:#f0c0f0;"|F||2||0||1||0||1||2||0||3||0||0||3||0||1||2||0||1||3||0||0||1||style="background:#f0c0f0;"|'''20'''
|-
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::::Tell me, how did you do your calculations? This seems like an accurate depiction of real life figures, seeing as there are slightly more women than men in most countries.
::::I'm starting to see how you think, you see only what confirms what you think. My table is objective, and does not account for people in the background (which were mostly men, by the way). Yours only includes comics that confirm that you are right, except for one.
::::Now, even if there were far more women than men, it still wouldn't matter. Xkcd isn't about being real. Randall does what he wants, and if he wants to put more women than men in comics, he can. He is '''not''' saying that his comic is exactly what the world is like, so why do you think he is? And please, sign your comments. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 03:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

::::: >There being less men than women in scientific comics does not signify in any way that women are smarter than men, except in your twisted mind.
::::: 'There being less men than women in contexts which by definition exact intellectual capacity does not signify in any way that women have more intellectual capacity than men, except in your twisted mind.'
::::: >even if there were far more women than men, it still wouldn't matter.
::::: >Randall does what he wants, and if he wants to put more women than men in comics, he can.
::::: It is, what, third time that you stress people's freedom to do wrong in lieu of providing a counterargument? Fourth?
::::: >He is not saying that his comic is exactly what the world is like, so why do you think he is?
::::: Obviously because it is conveyance of truth that is the core and assumed function of communication, not artistic expression. When we see an arrow and a figurative scene etched in a rock on a foreign trip, we don't assume that it is conveying some indigene's artistic fancy about an imaginary situation -- we assume that it was used for communicating some fact. Accordingly, everything, even in a webcomic, that does not stand out as false/artistic is assumed true / the factual background of the fiction. If female scientists are depicted casually, people won't question their presence. Randall's gender bias is ill-integrated, but integrated seamlessly enough to slip under the radar of most people it appears.
::::: >You choose to argue some possible slight sexism, rather than definite and horrible racism.
::::: >You say that "there are far worse things on the internet" is subjective, so I suppose the KKK is just as bad as xkcd.
::::: Yes, this continues being subjective (let me remind you in case you forgot that it was you who first appealed to 'why do you care, it's not that important' way back in your comment at 11:00 -- I at no point at all referenced subjective importances and instead wholly focused on inherent qualities of the problem) and, more importantly, glaringly demonstrative of your desire to hush criticism. Almost any any wrongdoing can be rendered 'slight' and dismissed by comparing it to lynching. It's fucking cowardly.
::::: Finally,
::::: >I redid your table [...]
::::: your error, which might or might not have been intentional, is that you're counting comics which have no literal academic/scientific context, which my point has from the very beginning been about. xkcd doesn't categorize comics, and this wiki is quite overcategorizing them. When I looked up comics about sex, included was '721: Flatland' just because the mention of the word 'orgy' in the title text and '1253: Exoplanet Names' just because of some raunchy ones! This is misleading in itself, but the point is, comics like '1637: Salt Mine' are clearly too outlandishly fictional to convincingly connote gender equality. I only included those comics in my table in which people explicitly partake in scientific situations or discussions, which can actually sway perceptions. Accusing me of confirmation bias is like accusing a researcher of bias for refusing to include cooking recipes in a study measuring nations' programming output. And 1584, which yields the crux of your numbers (and, amusingly, after excluding which your numbers differ from mine by exactly just one), is just fucking hypocrisy. Three of the 'men' in it are children (I take it that your generous exclusion of 'people in the background' refers to audiences as in 1736), the fourth doesn't even say anything, and Randall had the nerve to 'totally jokingly' attribute Darwin's insight to his wife because 'you can't prove she wasn't responsible for it'.
::::: (Also, I forgot to mention that my final line in my previous comment does not mean that there isn't a superior gender (or race). There obviously is. It was understood throughout my argument on this page, but I should probably make this clear.) <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::Ok then. I thought your argument was that men are being represented as worse than women when they're actually roughly equivelant. But no, you're the kind of person who believes that there is a superior gender ''and'' race. You are a horrible person, and no amount of reasoning would get through to you. Can you please just go away? Your arguments are invalid, and everyone else on this website seems to disagree with you. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 08:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: >no amount of reasoning would get through to you
::::::: By reasoning which I am incapable of understanding, do you mean things such as positing existence of increasingly minute 'microagressions', 'microsexisms' and 'microracisms' using which to explain racial and gender achievement gaps as an environmental factor after environmental factor is controlled for and proven not to affect achievement in any meaningful degree? Or showcasing the purported importance of 'stimulating upbringing' while failing to account for the fact that relationship between stimulating upbringing on the parent's side and accomplishment on the child's side is simply owing to the shared cause of innate high capacity underlying both outcomes (by proxy of heritability of capacity from parent to child in case of the latter)? Because it can't be something as crude as correlation/causation of 'women underperform because they are being stereotyped rather than are being stereotyped because they underperform'... can it.
::::::: >Your arguments are invalid, and everyone else on this website seems to disagree with you.
::::::: I _just_ think that there might be some delicious irony in how you somehow found it necessary to appeal to majority as well as if your assertion of 'you're wrong' had been a bit too bare. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}

:I will tell my children and grandchildren that in the election of 2016, there was a guy so afraid of women that he complained that a webcomic about the election had "females outdo males...in terms of...of elevation". This is some 18th century stuff. It is the consummate combination of unawareness of self and of others. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.47|108.162.246.47]]
04:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: >there was a guy so afraid of women
:: I regret to see you rely on such tactics.
:: >This is some 18th century stuff.
:: This is not relevant. It is possible for a society to err away from its prior true notions. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}

The only disappointing this are comments like those two above. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 18:11, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: Females being overrepresented in comics like xkcd (but also other ones) with respect to their controlled interest in science in reality is a fact. Therefore, you are calling facts disappointing. How geeky of you. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:: So, your real problem is that Randall likes using female stick figures, yes? Also, why are you afraid to "un-nowiki" your signature...? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 19:15, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::: No. Allow me to repeat my point as you had apparently misunderstood: 'females being overrepresented'. This is something else than 'females being represented'. The more you know, the less chance there is for you to accidentally twist another person's words as misogyny/sexism. Also, identity is not relevant to discussion. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:::: I understood you perfectly fine. My point still stands: You don't like Randall's preference for female stick figures. I never said you're being misogynic/sexist, so please don't imply I did. Thing with your "hidden" identity is that it's plain visible in the history of this page, so there's really no need to nowiki the signature, that's all. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 20:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::: You are extremely skilled at saying things that are false and asserting that they're true. First you confused objecting to female overrepresentation (over-presence) with objecting to female representation (presence) ('your real problem is that Randall likes using female stick figures'). Then you moved to confusing objecting to female overrepresentation with objecting to *Randall's* female overrepresentation. My objection does not pertain to who is doing overrepresenting, but to the mere fact of it. I would have objected identically to any other writer. Also, your attributing of opposition to female presence in comics (after doing which which you proceeded to asserting my being personally hostile to Randall) is accusing of sexism/misogyny by definition. Also, I am obviously aware of edit history; my use my signature constitutes a reminder that identity is, as I said, irrelevant in discussion. It does not serve to obscure anything. You have a remarkable record of falsehoods. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
::::::This is the most persistent troll I have seen in a long while. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.185|108.162.215.185]] 14:44, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: I regret that this is your reaction to my pointing out your false claims. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
::::::::I didn't make any false claims for you to point out. My comment about your trolling was the first comment I made. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.185|108.162.215.185]] 15:41, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:I'm confused. Are you merely making an observation about the number of female stick figures vs male stick figures in these comics or are you saying that there is a problem that needs to be solved? If so, what is the problem and potential solution? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.229|108.162.215.229]] 21:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)What?
:: The problem is giving a false impression regarding female academic capacity. The solution is Randall ceasing to overrepresent females. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:::First, you say that giving a false impression regarding female academic capacity is a problem, but have given nothing to show why it is a problem. I don't think it's fair to say that this comic strives in all points to represent the world exactly as it is, and as an artistic endeavor, I don't believe it necessarily should. Art allows the artist to express a world view different than reality in a safe place. Second, where is the harm being done? Lastly, I reject the premise of your argument. I have studied these comics very hard and can find no discernible genitalia in which to classify the stick figures in question as either anatomically male or female. If we are going based on gender, you would need each character presented to give declarative statements self-identifying as a certain gender in order to affirm them as female or male or other. If those are not available, then you are simply applying your heteronormative bias and assumptions onto these stick figures unfairly. Until you address these claims, this discussion is over as its very basis is proven unknowable. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.229|108.162.215.229]] 16:12, 9 November 2016 (UTC)What?
:::: >you [...] have given nothing to show why it is a problem
:::: >where is the harm being done
:::: If you are asking for proof that truth is preferable over falsehood, I suggest that you give your priorities a look.
:::: >I don't think it's fair to say that this comic strives in all points to represent the world exactly as it is
:::: Again (see the other subthread of this discussion which I'm replying in), the problem is that Randall gives zero indication that the female overrepresentation is just artistic licence or even representation of his wish how matters be. He depicts it as natural.
:::: >Art allows the artist to express a world view different than reality in a safe place.
:::: Agreed. Except, similarly to objections to this very comic # 1756, what Randall does with respect to female representation is not art -- it is just furthering a certain conviction regarding female capacity. It's no more art than product placement is.
:::: >can find no discernible genitalia in which to classify the stick figures in question as either anatomically male or female
:::: Right, two characters engaging in sex in supine position (598, 940), one of which has hair and one hasn't, are clearly lesbians one of whom is shaven.
:::: >you would need each character presented to give declarative statements self-identifying as a certain gender in order to affirm them as female or male or other
:::: This is ridiculous noise. <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:Randall is in the unique and incredible position to portray the world not as it is, but as it we hope it one day will be. Imagine how many women and girls can encounter these comics in their classrooms or read them online, and have the chance to see all sorts of female rolemodels in the heavily underrepresented STEM fields. The only limit on "female academic capacity"is girls being shown and told that they have no place in science. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, Randall is playing an important role in remedying this phenomenon. For scientific progress, for the unique views, backgrounds, and ways of thinking that a diversity of people can bring to STEM, it is amazing that Randall presents - without fanfare, without emphasis, and, most importantly, without implication of a degradation of men - a world in which women play a significant role in science. It is depictions like these that may inspire the next generation of talented and diverse young scientists.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.125|173.245.52.125]] 03:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
:: Your sentimental prose is rendered irrelevant by a simple brief fact: motivation must never rely on distortion of truth.
:: >The only limit on "female academic capacity"is girls being shown and told that they have no place in science.
:: This is literally false.
:: >female rolemodels in the heavily underrepresented STEM fields
:: Women are not underrepresented in STEM. The amount of their presence corresponds to their innate inclinations.
:: >the unique views, backgrounds, and ways of thinking that a diversity of people can bring to STEM
:: Desirability of diversity assumes that all members of the diversity are equally capable and focused on the subject in the first place.
:: >Randall is playing an important role in remedying this phenomenon.
:: There is nothing to 'remedy', because there is nothing wrong in the first place. Gender equality is not some sort of inherent state that has been deviated from. There is nothing wrong with wanting female membership in anything to equal males, or even exceed them -- but it is wrong to imply that the reason for failures of such attempts is 'bias'.
:: >unique and incredible position to portray the world not as it is
:: Reread this sentence until you appreciate what you just wrote.
:: >It is depictions like these that may inspire the next generation of talented and diverse young scientists.
:: Motivation must never happen at the expense of truth. By all means say 'I want more women in science' -- it's fine. But saying 'women's absence from science results from environmental prejudice' is false. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
:: Also, regarding 'most importantly [!], without implication of a degradation of men' -- this is literally false as well. In most comics containing discussion between a woman and a man, it is the man that asks a question/listens and the woman that elaborates / gives facts / corrects him. Men in xkcd literally are presented as the less educated gender. Quantifying that is necessarily somewhat imprecise, but I browsed comics 1423-1483 (the numbers are arbitrary) and the proportion of comics depicting the man as having less clue than the woman is 11 : 3. (See comics 1430, 1513, 1586, 1605 for example of what I mean.) <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::: "Women are not underrepresented in STEM. The amount of their presence corresponds to their innate inclinations." - Wow. Just wow. David, this guy is insistent that women are innately less good at science than men - not that they are given less opportunities, but that they are given equal opportunities and encouragement, but still are just too stupid to do proper science. Expressing opinions like that, it's no great surprise that he (he's definitely a he) wishes to remain anonymous.
::: To be honest, I don't think he's trolling - trolls don't have this much commitment. I think he's expressing his actual, genuine beliefs. Scary.
::: To the anonymous coward - SIGN YOUR POSTS, or leave this comic. Go write your own blog post on the nature of signatures, if you like, or make your own wiki with your own rules. The message about the comic doesn't contain signatures, because there, the message is the only important thing. This is the discussion section, and these are the rules. I disagree with you very strongly, but I'm perfectly happy to have a civil discussion with you here IF you stick to the basic rules. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 11:00, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

A little disappointing to have a normally lighthearted comic dive seriously into politics, if even for one strip. Not really a fan of either candidate, but would like to see stuff like this stay above the fray. {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.100}}
:Completely agreed. [[User:SeanAhern|SeanAhern]] ([[User talk:SeanAhern|talk]]) 18:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Completely agreed 2. At first I though it's some kind of a romance statement ("be with her"). And from explainxkcd I have learnt that it's an US campaign ad. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.150|162.158.202.150]] 22:19, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::Lighthearted? Try to read the comics in the [[:Category:Politics]] and [[:Category:Climate change]]. Also there are many other comics that are not at all light hearted. You must have mistaken this with some other web comic? :) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:33, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, lighthearted. Even the earlier political and climate change strips had a bit of humor in them (the only ones that really didn't have at least an attempt at humor were the cancer strips, understandably), this is just a straight up political ad. And while it's Randall's strip and he can do whatever he wants with it, it's just a little disappointing that he dove straight in to political ads. If nothing else, something like Black Hat trolling by voting for himself.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.100|162.158.69.100]] 12:34, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Well at least the I'm with her, could be interpreted like the "I'm with stupid"... :-) She is just less stupid than the alternative. Guess he seriously hopes this comic could make a difference and that he is afraid to do nothing. He reaches many people so who knows if this comic might swing an important state. You never know in a tight race. And although {{w|Nate Silver}} ([[:Category:Comics featuring Nate Silver|often referred to]] by Randall in the past) says that it's a [http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clinton-gains-and-the-polls-magically-converge/ 70% chance Hillary wins] then he is also not certain it will be her. So Randall does his best to avoid Trump as the big chief... He is even willing to loose some fans, although I think the majority of his readers prefers a world without a President Trump! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:51, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::I don't think he thought this through. Most likely most of the people this comic would have reached were those already going to vote for Clinton, but the small fraction that were undecided/ leaning-Trump probably were actually motivated by this to vote against her. I know I was pushed that way by the persistent media pro-Clinton coverage, not just in news network, but in other stuff that I usually enjoy, like the recent Big Bang Theory episode, basically celebrity that exists and now xkcd. I go to these places to go away from politics, but if you all want to force it down my throat everywhere I go, then fuck you all. That doesn't mean that I won't come back here or to any of the other places I visit, but to me at least this is no longer a haven where I can escape from politics, and that does mean something. {{unsigned ip|162.158.178.8}}
::::::I get what you're saying, and I appreciate the sentiment. I'm also glad that you won't let this deter you from the comic. May I point out that this is the first explicitly politically-partisan comic in nearly 2000 of them, and takes place at the end of a historically bitter election campaign; but let's be honest, even if this is not a one-off but repeated once every four years, it's still only about 1 comic in 500. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 12:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

This is a first... comics 500 and 1130 (possibly 1131 too) were related to the election, but didn't endorse a candidate. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.89|108.162.219.89]] 18:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:I think Randall is pretty much just saying '''OH GOD PLEASE DONT VOTE FOR TRUMP''' [[User:GizmoDude|GizmoDude]] ([[User talk:GizmoDude|talk]]) 20:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: If Randall was saying that, he'd also be bringing up third party candidates (honestly surprised he didn't endorse Jill Stein considering she's more pro-science than Hillary. And before anyone says "anti-vax", check snopes. Jill Stein is so pro-vax [she's volunteered time vaccinated children and is on record saying she wants to increase vaccination rates], pro-addressing-climate[she's green party who has that as a primary platform], and wants to replace the people with business degrees on the panels of the FDA with people with science degrees. Jill is so pro-science and that it makes Hillary look like a flat-earther.) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.42|108.162.246.42]] 21:30, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Jill Stein's stance on nuclear energy is an unscientific as it gets. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.196|108.162.210.196]] 23:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Hillary Clinton's ideas on encryption are in denial of science. Clinton's stance on coal is unscientific, she's pretty abysmal on fracking and natural gas too. Stein could be a lot better, but if Stein is tofu sarah palin, clinton is just palin with a college degree [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 03:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: Likewise her position on GMOs. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}
::::No no no. If Randal just wish that Trump should not become president there is only one way to achieve this and that is by making Hillary win. This is not even saying that he likes her, he just dislikes the alternative more. Voting for anyone else might just help Trump. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:33, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Also, it looks like minutephysics has done a similar thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDeL4LGuBx4 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.89|108.162.219.89]] 00:44, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I came here to see what the tone of the comments were going to be. I was half expecting to find an all-out flamewar in progress. I was happy to see that the comments have not devolved into the kind of attacks that one would expect to find pretty much anywhere else on the Internet. Geeks are the best people. :) [[User:Mwburden|mwburden]] ([[User talk:Mwburden|talk]]) 18:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm very dissappointed. Randall never took sides before and - be it as it may - this comic is not a comic but plain out political campaign. Up until now I held xkcd in EXTREMELY high esteem - this comic put a serious dent in that opinion..
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.60|162.158.91.60]] 18:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: I'm really torn about this one. On the one hand I feel that you HAVE to take sides in this one, if your only other option is Donald Trump... on the other hand, I never liked when web comics express political opinions. It will always end in a flame war and almost never have anything to do with the web comic itself. Randall should've just put up a "go vote becaues it's important" sign without taking sides. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 19:17, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm sure there are other comics out there that would agree with your ideology. [[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]] ([[User talk:Sturmovik|talk]]) 19:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Randall should do whatever Randall thinks he should do. Should he put up "go read about global warming" comics instead of take the side of AGW? If you think this example is an inappropriate one to use in contrasting this comic with the current political election cycle then you've completely ignored the stances of the two popular candidates. But back to the original point: if you don't like XKCD anymore because of this one comic then go find another comic or start your own. All of art is an expression of the person. Randall knew not everyone would like his beliefs when he pushed this out to the world and is obviously prepared to deal with any consequences of taking a stand on his website. I, for one, applaud him for doing so {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.19}}
:: Randall did a comic about global warming a while back, which was very interesting. Because I heard the "earth has warmed up before" argument before and even used it myself at least once. The difference about the global warming comic is that he backed it up with scientific facts, which is well within the scope of this comic. Political opinions aren't (or did the slogan change to ''A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language and politics''?). Yes, of course he can do with his web comic whatever he wants to. But readers can express their opinions about what he does with it. It's called "freedom of speech", you know?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 20:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::[[1357|There's a comic for that.]] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.230|162.158.214.230]] 21:19, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Randall has endorsee Obama in 2008 and it is his comic and he can use it to endorse anyone he likes. I'm pretty sure he believes that he will only loose a few real fans of xkcd over this comic, because those who really enjoys all his comics in spite of for instance climate comics would really not like to see Trump as president. And would thus be happy if this comic helped in any way to avoid that. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Can you help list all the characters in the transcript? From left to right; they're Joanna (ponytail with EMP cannon) from [[322]]; Black Hat; unknown with kite; White Hat; possibly Miss Lenhart (but his hair is somewhat different from [[1519]]); unknown possibly Megan; cueball; unknown woman with glasses; Hairbun; Beret Guy; Cueball with toy sword from [[303]]. [[User:B jonas|B jonas]] ([[User talk:B jonas|talk]]) 19:10, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Not Miss Lenhart. Blondie. They are listed now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Good for Randal. I had been noticing how many Hillary leaning artists had been pulling their punches this election, likely out of fear of trolling or loss of revenue. You want to know what courage looks like? This is is. [[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]] ([[User talk:Sturmovik|talk]]) 19:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Title text hasn't been explained yet. Is it a reference to the German chancellor Angela Merkel's phrase "Wir schaffen das!'? Don't know if Clinton has a slogan like Obama's "Yes, we can!". {{unsigned ip|162.158.91.36}}
: That's the same I thought. But I'm not sure how well known this phrase is outside of Germany. However "Wir schaffen das!" always had a bitter taste - even considered ironic or sarcastic by some - (which e.g. "Yes, we can!" didn't), so I interpreted "We can do this!" as voting for Clinton is simply the lesser evil. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:15, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I find (linking to )this civicinnovation website rather questionable. They want to audit peoples address books based on who the names in there might vote for? That sounds like Erich Mielkes wildest dreams come true. Even German newspapers (where i'm from), which are 100% anti-Trump, have in the last days noted concern about the methods of Clintons supporters bullying the other side, and this is a disquieting new piece in that picture. I'll hope this is just a ploy to step up with Trump on the ''bad manners'' side. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.160|162.158.91.160]] 19:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

;Not all comics have to be humorous

From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics#Etymology]
:The English term ''comics'' derives from the humorous (or "[[wikt:comic|comic]]") work which predominated in early American newspaper comic strips; usage of the term has become standard for non-humorous works as well. {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.57}}

:The problem is that this isn't a comic, this is a campaign ad. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.38|162.158.238.38]] 20:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

;Could we please just NOT get politics involved in the comments, guys?

Just... please? [[User:Papayaman1000|Papayaman1000]] ([[User talk:Papayaman1000|talk]]) 20:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Are you serious. What had you expected :-) This is the most loaded comic of all time. It will even take down [[388: Fuck Grapefruit]], even though [[388:_Fuck_Grapefruit#Controversy|it beat his blog]] about his Obama endorsement. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall has taken a side in a political Argument before: Not counting the near-invisible easter egg, comic 1005 consists solely of Randall taking a stance on something political and providing links to show how you can help. That wasn't too long ago, but no one freaked out about a serious, political strip back then.
[[User:CJB42|CJB42]] ([[User talk:CJB42|talk]]) 20:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Policy to candidates is not an apples to apples comparison. People get much more up in arms when the topic is either a candidate or policy that goes against religious text or teachings. SOPA and PIPA were neither (well, unless you count GNU as some kind of internet religion). [[User:Zernin|Zernin]] ([[User talk:Zernin|talk]]) 21:22, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

It's sad to see a guy who is so smart in some areas, yet can not see Hillary Clinton for the terrible president she would be. (Granted, part of the reason we only have a few other choices is because of our messed up voting system.) {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.177}}
:I agree with you that Hillary may be worse than almost any one else from the Democrats. But Trump is sooo much further out on a limp, and I'm sure this might be the only reason Randall makes this comic. He is seriously afraid of what woudl happen to the US and the rest of the world if Trump wins --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:38, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Instead of comic, post contained a political statement. I am not amused. I want a refund. I don't vote, and I don't even live anywhere near USA. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.102|141.101.96.102]] 18:40, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:A refund? For what? You pay to read this comic? [[User:Zorlax the Mighty|Zorlax the Mighty'); DROP TABLE users;--]] ([[User talk:Zorlax the Mighty|talk]]) 21:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Darn right you better be with her. If you say anything else, you will "commit suicide". Just ask Vince Foster or Seth Rich if you think I'm crazy.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.77|173.245.48.77]] 21:46, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

What, Randy does not say "Bernie or Bust"? I feel cheated now. :P --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.228|162.158.150.228]] 22:54, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Poor Bernie. Poor America. Poor world. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 23:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Just good luck America (and the rest of the world where I belong), whatever happens tomorrow. But I'm hoping Randall can help his candidate win! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm with her... unfortunately : (. I just didn't think it made sense to donate to a billionaire. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.106|162.158.74.106]] 00:56, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Don't get political in the comments? The fucking "comic" is a fucking political ad. We're going to call this fucker out on his cuckery. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.27|162.158.74.27]] 01:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't give a damn. Sure, I might not agree with his political leanings (hell, I don't want either of them in the WH), but it's just 1 comic. On Wednesday, he'll probably go back to the same stuff he's been doing for 1755 other strips. This will be nothing special. Just one comic. Sure, it might be politically fueled, but just because a person lets their leanings known doesn't mean you should be allowed to call them a "cuck" or cause a talk page for a popular comic, or a Reddit for a popular comic, devolve into the equivalent of monkeys flinging crap at walls. So just please deal with it and move on.
Yours truly, [[User:GranadalandDreamer|GranadalandDreamer]] ([[User talk:GranadalandDreamer|talk]]) 01:14, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall's with *her*? good to know that randall considers arab life worthless/supports financiers over single African-american mothers/refuses to understand encryption/would rather spend public money on coal than retrain miners/loves trade deals that will hurt the poorest, increase inequality, damage the environment, homogenize culture, allow private corporations to sue elected governments/can't make his mind up over the Dakota Access pipeline/changes his accent depending on which state he is stumping in/was late to supporting gay marriage/lied repeatedly about coming under sniper fire in bosnia/has had to repeatedly plead incompetence or rely on bureaucratic politics to evade formal breach of contract or charges of criminality. Iowa, Utah and Wisconsin may have Gloria la Riva of the Party for Socialism and Liberation on the ballot, if you want a candidate who isn't an elitist. And if you didn't want splitters, you should have voted for Bernie. [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 02:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I mean it's not like Trump is going to be a whole lot better for Arab people, Black people, gay people, or pretty much anyone who's not a straight white dude. It's quite possible he voted for Bernie, but at this point it's a little late for him to be asking others to support Sanders. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.71}}

:No, but that doesn't mean we should settle for clinton. It is not late to be asking for people to support Sanders, if anyone was doing that, because if the senate swings to the democrats he ends up in charge of the budget committee. Oh and I forgot one: randall is apparently also planning to disappoint all of us, even those who loathe him, within 100 days. [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 05:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

: Trump would be a whole lot better for all Americans, not just "straight white dudes". He won't be better for people in other countries looking to illegally enter the United States, but why shouldn't an American President be like this? You're just throwing demographic categories around thinking you're making an argument against Trump. Only those who buy into the leftist narrative will believe you. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}

Looks like the Trumpettes are getting rather triggered over a web comic. Wasn't there a candidate in this election that was preaching against this whole getting easily offended by words thing? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.43|108.162.238.43]] 03:25, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

This just makes me... sad... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.117|108.162.215.117]] 03:52, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is a webcomic about "romance, sarcasm, language, and math" taking a political stance and telling me who to vote for? Randall can have his own opinion, but this isn't okay. I've read this comic since ... gosh, since the low 200s-300s, so probably over 5 or 6 years and... I think I'm done. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.55|108.162.241.55]] 04:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:''Of course'' it's okay. It's his comic, which he gives us for free. He can use it to entertain us, to draw random pictures of extradimensional red spiders, or to advocate for a political candidate and inform people how to vote, especially people who may have a more difficult time doing so (like the disabled and elderly). However, I really ''must'' thank you... you claiming that this "isn't okay", and all the others here with ruffled feathers over it, makes a previously boring comic one of the most hilarious xkcds in a good long while. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.253|141.101.98.253.-730².♫.venus.🍅.Cthulu.♣️]] 10:38, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm surprised this wiki doesn't have a category for 'serious'/'no joke' comics, and least not that I spotted. There should be, and this should be in it. [[User:Teleksterling|Teleksterling]] ([[User talk:Teleksterling|talk]]) 04:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Am I the only one who sees Guy Fawkes in the logo? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.48|108.162.245.48]] 04:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I think the only other time Randall generated that much controversy here in comments was when suggested that all beer tastes bad. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.93|141.101.80.93]] 06:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)rw

* The title text ''may'' be quoting - directly or indirectly - Angela Merkel's slogan ("We can do this", or in German "Wir schaffen das"), but I don't know why unless it's just an appropriate slogan. [[User:Schroduck|Schroduck]] ([[User talk:Schroduck|talk]]) 08:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Hej. I think it was the right thing to do, and if you read some of the older XKCDs (just think about the one about free speech - they just show you the door, and some others) you could have expected that this is his position. even through i would take the vote for stein on my part. I'm sorry for the situation of the citizens of the USA right now. Greetings from Oversea - and good luck today! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.174|162.158.89.174]] 10:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Way to alienate half of your readership, Randall. Well, now we know that Randall is a socialist communist who hates America. {{unsigned ip|162.158.79.235}}
* If you are so repulsed by seeing someone post something that you disagree with that you have to regress to early-teen insults, then I suggest you turn off all your electronic devices and start living in a cave. Engaging with people that we disagree with makes us smarter and better-informed. That said, it's Randall's comic that he provides to us at no charge - and if you stop reading today, you're automatically eligible for a full refund! [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 12:28, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Given that a big chunk of his readers must be non-US, and we don't really give a rat's arse which arse you elect, it is a bit disappointing there wasn't even something a little witty here. Other web-comic authors have often put things like this as an extra one between the others - and given that he missed a comic today, I don't see why he didn't do that. Anyway, have fun you lot and please try not to start any more wars.{{unsigned ip|141.101.98.217}}

Oh we non-USers do care!! I guess Randall just thinks today is too important to not make his position clear. Which is an admirable decision. I'm also shocked and surprised to find there may be Trumpers lurking on xkcd. Glad to hear so many of you are leaving, folks. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.134|172.68.34.134]] 16:46, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: If you don't know any Trump supporters amongst your personal circle, you're part of the problem. Expand your worldview. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}

;Hairbun with glasses
I wonder if she is meant to represent [[wikipedia:Susan B. Anthony|Susan B. Anthony]]. SBA did have a bun (most photos) and glasses (later in life), and she is the most obvious person to be placed at the same prominent level as HRC.[[User:Sysin|Sysin]] ([[User talk:Sysin|talk]]) 14:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Well maybe, but Randall has drwan [[Hairbun]] with glasses like this several times before as also mentioned in the gallery. So I do not think any of the characters represents real persons except maybe the only one looking out at us, [[Blondie]] which would be how to draw Hillary in xkcd. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Is that final reminder, about being in line before the polls close true in all 50 states? I believe that Indiana nominally has a different law, that you must be inside the polling building when the polls close in order to vote, which is not quite the same thing. although in practice, it's usually enforced as "be in line" instead [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.45|162.158.75.45]] 15:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Frankly, The Hillary Logo isn't particularly egregious. He has two elements suggesting to vote for Hillary (the logo, and the "her"), and 5 elements about increasing general voter turnout. I don't like Clinton, but the comic is mostly about voting, nor voting for Clinton. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.47|108.162.238.47]] 17:41, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall's fiance/wife has been diagnosed with cancer, hasn't she (per xkcd 1141: "Two Years")? So if/when President Trump repeals ObamaCare --- and in particular repeals the provisions in regard to "pre-existing conditions" --- then his wife loses her healthcare coverage, doesn't she? This is ample reason for Randall (and his wife, and all cancer patients and their families) to oppose Trump, isn't it? [[User:PNWoldguy|PNWoldguy]] ([[User talk:PNWoldguy|talk]]) 18:07, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

An ad for Hillary? Well, I just removed Thing Explainer and What If from my whistlist. I gave Thing Explainer as a gift last year. I now regret that. Oh, and a coworker's husband blacklisted XKCD from their router. Great idea. {{unsigned|Dayfall}}

Hmmmm...given how this election polarizes (look e.g. in the "Scientific American" for a clear anti-Trump statement which is rather unprecedented for them; dunno about "Science") this is a rather mildly pro-Clinton comic. So what? Other celebs took their stance too. (Eagerly still awaiting NSFWComix's comment :-) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.152|162.158.203.152]] 23:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Definitely not a Trump supporter here... But on the topic of political propaganda on a nerd comic... And the "free speech" comic about free speech "not existing on discussion forums"... The purpose of discussions is to have your beliefs challenged, so you can distinguish good and bad reasoning, refine your beliefs, and alter them due to evidence. Unpopular opinions should be refuted (if faulty premises), or discussed so everyone can decide for themselves. Banning members for unpopular opinions is not a debate, it's an echo chamber. And I mean this for both sides of a discussion, not just supporting one ideology in particular. [[User:Jimbo1qaz|Jimbo1qaz]] ([[User talk:Jimbo1qaz|talk]]) 23:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Also, I'm a bit disappointed that this comic is a Clinton campaign sign (although nowhere near as much as I would be if this comic was a Trump sign). [[User:Jimbo1qaz|Jimbo1qaz]] ([[User talk:Jimbo1qaz|talk]]) 23:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Explanation needs, somewhere on it, the interesting fact that citizens don't receive fines or criminal charges for not voting. I didn't realise that this was so in the U.S., and many other non-U.S. readers might not realise that it's legal to not vote in the U.S. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.121|108.162.249.121]] 01:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
*Most of the world doesn't have compulsory voting. I'm guessing you may be in Australia which does have compulsory voting, but New Zealand doesn't, nor do Canada, UK, Ireland, South Africa, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Russia, Japan, China, Nigeria, Finland, Pakistan, Denmark ... --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.127|108.162.216.127]] 17:44, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Seriously,don't get heated about it. I agree that:

*This is just expressing Randall's opinion.
*Even if it wasn't, he deserves a comic off from jokes.
*The campaign is going o end before I wake up at 6 tomorrow.

Also, could you fucking watch your language? Jacky720 (talk) 03:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

I saw the two forward facing figures as Clinton and Kaine. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 03:49, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Encouraging people to vote, and helping to know how, great. But I was disappointed that he stooped to campaigning for a specific candidate right in his comic, as opposed to his blag. This is a sad day for XKCD. {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.43}}

*I wonder if Randall realized that his "get a ride to the polls" link would only work for residents in one district of Nebraska -- less than 0.25% of his U.S. readership. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.127|108.162.216.127]] 17:44, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Hilarious comic as always! Hillary as president, lol. Good one, Randall :^) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.152|162.158.203.152]] 21:15, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is the discussion 3/4th of the page with only 1/4 being related to the explanation? And most of the comments being replied to are ones on Women or Sexism, which is bad. Instead they should bitch about Donald Trump, he is the most sexist and racist here.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.50.35|162.158.50.35]] 12:45, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
</div>
 
;Comments from 2017 and later:

;Found the joke
It turns out that this comic was funny in hindsight. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.160|162.158.75.160]] 08:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:Ha ha ;-) But I think that most of those that rooted for Randall and Hillary fails to see the funny part now, [[1756#Sad_comics|especially Randall]], but probably also several of those that actually voted for Trump in a protest either against the system of Hillary personally... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:29, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Today was the first time I saw it, and yes, I guffawed, though definitely from a schadenfreude perspective. Not that I cared who would win, the second most hated person in America or the first most hated person in American (and, in retrospect, those titles were interchangeable), but it is ~always~ funny to see those that either beg for more gov't or those that note that ~their particular~ reason for wanting more gov't is justification to force those ideas onto those who disagree get what they wanted/justified handed to them in spades.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.30|162.158.186.30]] 01:09, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

This 'sad comics' list is utterly ludicrous, and really should just be removed altogether. It's headed by many bullet points of meaningless blather. And the content is just stupid. Funny gag about a notification bar in a flag being seen as a Randall making a flag for a conspiratorial three-state independence move? Comic about random funny security mishmashes (and clearly about border enforcements and laptop passwords - a very old issue) being seen as comments on Trump's presidency? Just a population distribution map being seen as Randall being 'still sad about election results'? A frigging bunch of funny emoji ideas being seen as SECRET REFERENCES to US politics, and not just the dumb things they very very obviously are? A comic about unnecessary reviews being seen as reference to nuclear war? New Year is.. maybe sad, kind of? But pretty spurious. A comic about focus being seen as political commentary. Every freaking comic here is somehow linked to Trump. Most for no reason whatsoever.
:The only person wasting time here is me, for some reason pointing out the utter meaninglessness and ridiculousness of this list. I'll go prune it now. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.241|162.158.111.241]] 00:38, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1756: I'm With Her

2018-01-10T00:38:33Z

162.158.111.241:

During the first few weeks there were so much trolling on this talk page, and it became very long. Now almost no one makes any comment anymore because it is hard to get started with all the negative comment. To help with this I will try to collapse all the original talk from 2016 (which was also done [[Talk:1350:_Lorenz|once before]] althogh the length problem came from a different reason). It will always be possible to see all the old comments by pressing the expand button below here and to the far right. Feel free to comment below (and also in the old commentaries of course) - But now someone might actually again notice that there has been written something new! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:29, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

'''Click to expand for comments from 2016:'''
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed leftAlign" style="width:100%">

The "I'm with her" and H with an arrow are CLEARLY the respective campaign slogan and campaign logo for Hillary Clinton, not some vagueness having to do with bringing a significant other. {{unsigned ip|173.245.48.78}}
:I see it more as him endorsing voting regardless of who you vote for (as evidenced by half the comic is about "Here's how you vote" without any mention of candidates or issues) and the endorsing Clinton part is an add-on as if to say "This is how I'm voting; vote for her if you agree with me." [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 18:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:If you're so insecure about your political beliefs that you abandon a comic you've followed for years just because they have a different opinion to you then maybe you should stop using the internet because you're just going to lose all your hobbies. {{unsigned ip|148.197.114.136}}
:I am not insecure about my political beliefs. I am just upset at the continued and active support of our two party system and the suppression of anyone not in those parties.. It ought to make everyone here very angry (even if you support Hillary). Most Americans would rather have Bernie than Hillary. Most Americans would rather have Kasich than Trump. Insult me all you want, I will not put up with this complacency any more.--[[User:Dayfall|Dayfall]] ([[User talk:Dayfall|talk]]) 21:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Blocking it from their router? Have they ever heard of the concept of... you know, just not visiting websites they dislike? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.253|141.101.98.253.-730².♫.venus.🍅.Cthulu.♣️]] 19:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Has Randall endorsed a presidential candidate before? --[[User:Dfeuer|Dfeuer]] ([[User talk:Dfeuer|talk]]) 17:14, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:He supported Obama on his blog in '08, not in the comic though. {{unsigned ip|162.158.214.230}}

He could have said any number of clever things about the election, and all he did was put up a campaign sign. Disappointing. [[User:Gmcgath|Gmcgath]] ([[User talk:Gmcgath|talk]]) 17:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:I'm hoping Wednesday will be a newspaper saying "American immigration continues north" and below, "40% of the population move to Canada", but only if Trump wins.{{unsigned|Jacky720}}

what a cuck --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.63|172.68.51.63]] 17:45, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: leaving aside the most ridiculous slur of the past few years, I don't know what else did you expect from Randall. I guess you must have stumbled upon this wiki by chance and have never heard of xkcd before.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 17:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: AHAHAHAHA. *Ahem.* Hooray for pejorative misappropriation of a kink. /s [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.55|108.162.246.55]] 19:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

This is the first time I still don't get the joke even after reading the explainxkcd page [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.123|108.162.219.123]] 18:09, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:It isn't a joke. [[Randall]] is simply encouraging people to vote. [[User:GizmoDude|GizmoDude]] ([[User talk:GizmoDude|talk]]) 20:55, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

:¬I Ummmmmmmmm..... It's Randall's comic strip. He can endorse whomever he wants without getting anyone's permission first. To those who disagree with this endorsement - sowhat? Grow up. {{unsigned ip|108.162.238.42}}

;Bit disappointing...

I was hoping for a comic today. oh well. Interesting to see how he's planning to vote, though - it's a shame that there are no candidates this year in favor of strong encryption. {{unsigned ip|172.68.55.80}}

Funny how females outdo males in this 'comic' but in terms of frequency and of elevation. Oh well. xkcd has long been overrepresenting females, it was to be expected. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:Seriously? You're whinging 'what about the men?' in a geek web comic?! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.212|108.162.215.212]] 18:21, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::And there are 11 characters and they are split 5 to 6, and if Blondie represents Clinton then there are 5 to 5 M vs W supporters. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:"Overrepresenting"?! If there were too many guys you wouldn't bat an eye because it's 'accurate' to whatever demographic you think xkcd is supposed to represent, but as soon as Randall draws 'too many women' you whinge about the oppression of men. First off, even if the readership is male-dominated, that doesn't have any impact on who the comic can portray. Second, there is nothing oppressive about seeing women portrayed in equal numbers or -heaven forbid- in positions of power.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.118.191|172.68.118.191]] 00:28, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: >If there were too many guys you wouldn't bat an eye because it's 'accurate' to whatever demographic you think
:: You are literally a priori accusing me of bias regarding what I would have done in a comparable situation.
:: >you think xkcd is supposed to represent
:: xkcd's focus is exceedingly well-defined. It is often narrowed down to a particular academic field. It is not subjective.
:: >you whinge about the oppression of men
:: Please refrain from putting such words in my mouth. Overrepresentation is a numerical fact -- 'oppression' is a charged term which I doubt has a valid definition.
:: >even if the readership is male-dominated, that doesn't have any impact on who the comic can portray
:: You seem to be implying that my mention of overrepresentation pertains to overrepresentation with respect to viewership rather than with respect of gender balance in scientific fields Randall depicts.
:: >there is nothing oppressive about seeing women portrayed in equal numbers or -heaven forbid- in positions of power
:: Again, you are seeing claims of 'oppression' that are not there. I do not use this word -- I am talking strictly about gender quantity. In other words, I don't object to 'oppression', but to distortion of truth. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
:::Oh shit, you're not joking. I don't think Randall cared in the slightest how many of each gender there were, or where they were placed. You are creating a problem which isn't there, and missing what the comic is actually trying to say. It appears that whatever Randall puts in a comic, you'll find a problem with it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 09:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: Almost every comic depicting a scientific (academic, laboratory, engineering) context contains a female. As a matter of fact, I looked up the last 20 or so comics in the Science category. Where applicable, the gender proportion is:
:::::f = 4, m = 0
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 0
:::::f = 0, m = 2
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 1
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 1, m = 1
:::::f = 2, m = 1
:::::f = 0, m = 1
:::::f = 3, m = 1
:::::total: f = 17, = 10
:::: It is even more glaring that I had thought.
::::>It appears that whatever Randall puts in a comic, you'll find a problem with it.
::::You are making it hard not to conclude that you are not quite able to speak otherwise than in irrelevant falsehoods. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
:::::Like I said, Randall doesn't seem to concentrate on how gender is represented, and more on what the comic is about. Randall uses whatever fits best in each comic. Also, please refrian from using nowiki on "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" as your signature. It is against the rules, because technically your comment ends in "</nowiki>". It is also pointless, because your IP is recorded in edit history anyway. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 12:19, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::: 'Randall doesn't seem to concentrate on how gender is represented' -- it is quite remarkable for you to say so when the balance is significantly more than 1.5 : 1. As for my signature, 'my comment ending in </nowiki>' is literally false and, again, my choice of it is not intended to obscure my identity, but to signify irrelevance of it in discussion. <nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152 }}
:::::::Your trolling is out of hand. It doesn't matter about relevance of your signature in discussion, you have to sign your comments. If you feel so strongly about it, just stop reading Randall's comics. I don't think he'll care if you stop. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.62|162.158.2.62]] 23:21, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::::: So this is your reaction to the hypocrisy of a comic majorly about science distorting truth (literally -- the female overrepresentation is not, contrary to how another poster presented it, in service to humour/plot, it is just there): 'just don't read it if you don't like it'. This is not tenable. You could 'justify' any wrongdoing this way: 'just don't react, what does it concern you'. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:::::::::You cannot justify anything with that, only things that don't actually affect anyone in any significant way. Randall is using his right to freedom of speech, and you have no right trying to stop that. And before you argue that I am trying to stop you, realise that I am only giving my opinion in the hopes yours will change. Also, you ''still'' haven't addressed why you don't sign your comments properly. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 11:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
: As for my signature, I have addressed it -- you just ignored my explanation, beside implying that it was I who brought its subject in the first place rather than you ('It doesn't matter about relevance of your signature in discussion').
: >things that don't actually affect anyone in any significant way
: 'Not any significant' is a subjective claim rather than objective quantification such as the one I made to point out Randall's gender bias. xkcd has vast readership. In fact, it is *the first result* for the keyword >webcomic in Google.
: >Randall is using his right to freedom of speech.
: This is completely bizarre. You are appealing to free speech to justify *telling falsehoods*.
: >and you have no right trying to stop that
: This is completely bizarre as well. What kind of 'right' are you talking about that I lack? Are you saying that people have no right to point out, condemn, and demand rectification of falsehoods? This is surreal. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::The guy was clearly referring to your earlier statement that you were, quote, "signifying irrelevance it in discussion." Also, as the admin who's been having to clean up after your refusal to write a signature without nowiki tags, I'm getting really sick of this. The signature tag is not there for you to disregard it to make an artistic statement about metadata in forums, it's there to mark time, ownership and the boundaries between comments. You're making extra work for me for a trivial excuse. Sign your comments properly. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:31, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::: 'Time' and 'ownership' are never relevant. All they can ever conceivably serve for is pointing out misattributions of contributions from one poster to another, which holds precisely zero weight for the argument. If your point stands, it stands. If it doesn't, it doesn't. This -- validity of the point -- is the only consideration in discussion, the purpose of which is conveying knowledge. I'm sorry to hear that you feel that it is the form of the argument (such as who made which comment) that matters rather than its substance. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::::I'm not going to be able to convince you that the metadata is meaningful, so let's put this a different way. I didn't put up three different signs around the talk page box so that someone could try to be clever and make me do the work anyway by signing off slightly wrong. You and I both know why the messages tell you to sign off with four tildes. Typing the four tildes without the nowiki tags takes strictly less time than adding the nowiki tags. There is no discussion being suppressed because of the metadata. I've wasted five minutes of my life typing out the unsigned comment template multiple times when it was clear to me that you knew how to sign and wilfully weren't. Sign your comments properly. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:59, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::::: >I'm not going to be able to convince you that the metadata is meaningful
::::: Metadata is obviously meaningful for statistical/record-keeping purposes, and guess what, that is provided by the edit history. In direct discussion view, it is actively damaging, in all senses, from visual distraction (cluttering the page) to topical distraction (distracting into discussion of particular posters, including chaff such as squabbling over who said what).
::::: >make me do the work anyway
::::: I am not going to validate a misconception that is harmful to discussion only so to spare you the effort you impose on yourself by erroneously clinging to it. It would be irresponsible towards this community. I tried my best to explain your mistake to you. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.141}}
::::::In case you didn't get the subtext from my last comment, I'm invoking site rules that are littered in multiple places around the edit window. Browsing edit logs to find ownership of a comment is incredibly time consuming, and signatures take a fraction of a line to display the information inline. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: So basically what you are saying is 'I am not wrong on account of having codified my being wrong into a rule'. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>
::::::::No, that is your opinion of a rule falsely inserted into a statement that sounds like I'm saying it. Less than a hundred characters of timestamp and attribution serves to mark out who actually said what and the benefits to organisation and knowing who is actually saying what far outweigh the character count delta between completed signatures and your intentionally un-rendered tildes. The rule is not a suggestion, and the only thing stopping me from temporarily blocking you to enforce the rule is that I know your IP address is changing between sessions. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 03:42, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::::: >No, that is your opinion of a rule falsely inserted into a statement that sounds like I'm saying it.
::::::::: ...What? You literally said that signing is a rule here, and I literally agreed and pointed out that that rule is based on a misunderstanding.
::::::::: >the benefits to organisation and knowing who is actually saying what
::::::::: ...facilitate nothing but petty squabbles over authorship of contributions rather than focusing on points therein. The only one of the three benefits to signing you gave at one point that is valid is separation of comments, except that isn't even provided by signing, but by indentation/semi-indentation of colons/quotation marks, respectively, to which signing is, guess what, completely unrelated. If anything, my refusal to sign 'properly' has helped my detractors, giving them an opportunity to attempt to undermine my credibility by repeatedly asking me 'why are you not signing properly?' as if I hadn't explained that two if not three times already. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::::::What you literally did was put a statement in quotation marks that featured me saying I was wrong and using a tautological rule to to justify it. You believe that identity is irrelevant to discussion, which is disputed in discussions of community management and {{w|Wikipedia:Signatures#Purpose_of_signatures|wikipedia itself}} as the forced ownership encourages a user to remain civil; and I can't help but notice that you are indeed involved in a number of spats on this page. The furthest point of this would be mandatory account creation to edit pages, which I've fought against in the past and don't want to have to instate if anonymous users with changing IPs continue to be difficult to moderate. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:30, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::::::: >using a tautological rule to to justify it
::::::::::: >which is disputed in discussions of community management and wikipedia itself
::::::::::: So you are calling my 100 % verifiable points regarding consequences of presence/absence of signing on poster behaviour tautological, while yourself appealing to authority to Wikipedia ('Wikipedia requires signing, therefore I do too') in lieu of an argument? You have some fucking nerve as well.
::::::::::: >if anonymous users with changing IPs continue to be difficult to moderate
::::::::::: This sounds curiously like preemption, 'let's keep him from posting in case he should offend'.
::::::::::: >the forced ownership encourages a user to remain civil; and I can't help but notice that you are indeed involved in a number of spats on this page
::::::::::: You mean those containing such examples of signing posters' civility as referring to me as 'finding problems with everything', having a 'twisted mind', saying that 'xkcd is as bad as KKK', 'horrible person', 'afraid of women', 'belonging in 18th century', and 'afraid to sign properly'? I agree, civility such as that is quite effective at rendering a picture of effectiveness of signing on discussion quality. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::::::::I'm not actually making a living off this. I'm not willing to keep making points that you'll brush off as false and state your own claims as true, then still have to clean up after you and the other anonymous users with changing IPs on this page. I should have known this comic was going to be a moderation nightmare when it went up. I have work to do, this talk page is now locked for anonymous users. If you want to continue ignoring site rules, you and the other people on this talk page who I can't seem to manage can make accounts to do so. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:53, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::It's not telling a falsehood if it's an opinion. There are more women than men in some of his recent comics, that's an opinion. He is not saying that this is what the real world is like. And it is objectively not significant, because it is easy to stop reading his comics, no one is forcing you to read them. Just because it is the first result on Google, doesn't mean that suddenly no other webcomics exist. You can look down a few pixels, and see something completely different. There are far worse problems on the internet. Why single out someone using women more than men, rather than someone who believes that there is a superior sex? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.62|162.158.2.62]] 23:25, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
::: >it is objectively not significant
::: I have taken note that you have shifted from asserting existence of high and low significance ('in any significant way', implying gradation) to asserting existence of categorical absolute insignificance ('objectively not significant').
::: >There are more women than men in some of his recent comics, that's an opinion.
::: Where the hell are you people getting this kind of nonsense from? Depicting a fictitious state of matters is an opinion?
::: >He is not saying that this is what the real world is like.
::: Literally false. There is no indication whatsoever that the overrepresentation of females has a humorous or otherwise irreal or optative dimension. The females are depicted as being self-obviously natural at their positions.
::: >There are far worse problems on the internet.
::: This is not relevant in addition to being a subjective opinion (speaking of dispensing which).
::: >because it is easy to stop reading his comics, no one is forcing you to read them. Just because it is the first result on Google, doesn't mean that suddenly no other webcomics exist. You can look down a few pixels, and see something completely different
::: I am honestly bewildered by your repeated reliance on this clearly morally untenable nonsense. 'If something is wrong, just stop watching.' It's stunning.
::: >Why single out someone using women more than men, rather than someone who believes that there is a superior sex?
::: Randall does depict the latter conviction in the comic AS WELL (search the page for my 'Men in xkcd literally are presented as the less educated gender.'). <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
::::There being less men than women in scientific comics does not signify in any way that women are smarter than men, except in your twisted mind. You say that "there are far worse things on the internet" is subjective, so I suppose the KKK is just as bad as xkcd. That was not intended to say anything about xkcd, but something about yourself. You choose to argue some possible slight sexism, rather than definite and horrible racism. You won't see anything wrong with what you're saying until you see what you are doing now. Also, I redid your table, looking at the past 20 comics in the science section.
::::{| {{table}}
| style="background:#c0c0c0;"|'''Number'''||1736||1732||1717||1679||1666||1664||1643||1637||1633||1621||1611||1606||1605||1594||1592||1591||1584||1574||1561||1531||style="background:#c0c0c0;"|'''Total'''
|-
| style="background:#c0c0f0;"|M||1||0||2||0||1||1||1||1||0||0||0||0||1||0||2||1||8||0||0||0||style="background:#c0c0f0;"|'''19'''
|-
| style="background:#f0c0f0;"|F||2||0||1||0||1||2||0||3||0||0||3||0||1||2||0||1||3||0||0||1||style="background:#f0c0f0;"|'''20'''
|-
|
|}
::::Tell me, how did you do your calculations? This seems like an accurate depiction of real life figures, seeing as there are slightly more women than men in most countries.
::::I'm starting to see how you think, you see only what confirms what you think. My table is objective, and does not account for people in the background (which were mostly men, by the way). Yours only includes comics that confirm that you are right, except for one.
::::Now, even if there were far more women than men, it still wouldn't matter. Xkcd isn't about being real. Randall does what he wants, and if he wants to put more women than men in comics, he can. He is '''not''' saying that his comic is exactly what the world is like, so why do you think he is? And please, sign your comments. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 03:37, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

::::: >There being less men than women in scientific comics does not signify in any way that women are smarter than men, except in your twisted mind.
::::: 'There being less men than women in contexts which by definition exact intellectual capacity does not signify in any way that women have more intellectual capacity than men, except in your twisted mind.'
::::: >even if there were far more women than men, it still wouldn't matter.
::::: >Randall does what he wants, and if he wants to put more women than men in comics, he can.
::::: It is, what, third time that you stress people's freedom to do wrong in lieu of providing a counterargument? Fourth?
::::: >He is not saying that his comic is exactly what the world is like, so why do you think he is?
::::: Obviously because it is conveyance of truth that is the core and assumed function of communication, not artistic expression. When we see an arrow and a figurative scene etched in a rock on a foreign trip, we don't assume that it is conveying some indigene's artistic fancy about an imaginary situation -- we assume that it was used for communicating some fact. Accordingly, everything, even in a webcomic, that does not stand out as false/artistic is assumed true / the factual background of the fiction. If female scientists are depicted casually, people won't question their presence. Randall's gender bias is ill-integrated, but integrated seamlessly enough to slip under the radar of most people it appears.
::::: >You choose to argue some possible slight sexism, rather than definite and horrible racism.
::::: >You say that "there are far worse things on the internet" is subjective, so I suppose the KKK is just as bad as xkcd.
::::: Yes, this continues being subjective (let me remind you in case you forgot that it was you who first appealed to 'why do you care, it's not that important' way back in your comment at 11:00 -- I at no point at all referenced subjective importances and instead wholly focused on inherent qualities of the problem) and, more importantly, glaringly demonstrative of your desire to hush criticism. Almost any any wrongdoing can be rendered 'slight' and dismissed by comparing it to lynching. It's fucking cowardly.
::::: Finally,
::::: >I redid your table [...]
::::: your error, which might or might not have been intentional, is that you're counting comics which have no literal academic/scientific context, which my point has from the very beginning been about. xkcd doesn't categorize comics, and this wiki is quite overcategorizing them. When I looked up comics about sex, included was '721: Flatland' just because the mention of the word 'orgy' in the title text and '1253: Exoplanet Names' just because of some raunchy ones! This is misleading in itself, but the point is, comics like '1637: Salt Mine' are clearly too outlandishly fictional to convincingly connote gender equality. I only included those comics in my table in which people explicitly partake in scientific situations or discussions, which can actually sway perceptions. Accusing me of confirmation bias is like accusing a researcher of bias for refusing to include cooking recipes in a study measuring nations' programming output. And 1584, which yields the crux of your numbers (and, amusingly, after excluding which your numbers differ from mine by exactly just one), is just fucking hypocrisy. Three of the 'men' in it are children (I take it that your generous exclusion of 'people in the background' refers to audiences as in 1736), the fourth doesn't even say anything, and Randall had the nerve to 'totally jokingly' attribute Darwin's insight to his wife because 'you can't prove she wasn't responsible for it'.
::::: (Also, I forgot to mention that my final line in my previous comment does not mean that there isn't a superior gender (or race). There obviously is. It was understood throughout my argument on this page, but I should probably make this clear.) <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}
::::::Ok then. I thought your argument was that men are being represented as worse than women when they're actually roughly equivelant. But no, you're the kind of person who believes that there is a superior gender ''and'' race. You are a horrible person, and no amount of reasoning would get through to you. Can you please just go away? Your arguments are invalid, and everyone else on this website seems to disagree with you. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.60|162.158.2.60]] 08:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: >no amount of reasoning would get through to you
::::::: By reasoning which I am incapable of understanding, do you mean things such as positing existence of increasingly minute 'microagressions', 'microsexisms' and 'microracisms' using which to explain racial and gender achievement gaps as an environmental factor after environmental factor is controlled for and proven not to affect achievement in any meaningful degree? Or showcasing the purported importance of 'stimulating upbringing' while failing to account for the fact that relationship between stimulating upbringing on the parent's side and accomplishment on the child's side is simply owing to the shared cause of innate high capacity underlying both outcomes (by proxy of heritability of capacity from parent to child in case of the latter)? Because it can't be something as crude as correlation/causation of 'women underperform because they are being stereotyped rather than are being stereotyped because they underperform'... can it.
::::::: >Your arguments are invalid, and everyone else on this website seems to disagree with you.
::::::: I _just_ think that there might be some delicious irony in how you somehow found it necessary to appeal to majority as well as if your assertion of 'you're wrong' had been a bit too bare. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.245}}

:I will tell my children and grandchildren that in the election of 2016, there was a guy so afraid of women that he complained that a webcomic about the election had "females outdo males...in terms of...of elevation". This is some 18th century stuff. It is the consummate combination of unawareness of self and of others. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.47|108.162.246.47]]
04:36, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: >there was a guy so afraid of women
:: I regret to see you rely on such tactics.
:: >This is some 18th century stuff.
:: This is not relevant. It is possible for a society to err away from its prior true notions. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}

The only disappointing this are comments like those two above. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 18:11, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: Females being overrepresented in comics like xkcd (but also other ones) with respect to their controlled interest in science in reality is a fact. Therefore, you are calling facts disappointing. How geeky of you. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:: So, your real problem is that Randall likes using female stick figures, yes? Also, why are you afraid to "un-nowiki" your signature...? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 19:15, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::: No. Allow me to repeat my point as you had apparently misunderstood: 'females being overrepresented'. This is something else than 'females being represented'. The more you know, the less chance there is for you to accidentally twist another person's words as misogyny/sexism. Also, identity is not relevant to discussion. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
:::: I understood you perfectly fine. My point still stands: You don't like Randall's preference for female stick figures. I never said you're being misogynic/sexist, so please don't imply I did. Thing with your "hidden" identity is that it's plain visible in the history of this page, so there's really no need to nowiki the signature, that's all. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 20:42, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::: You are extremely skilled at saying things that are false and asserting that they're true. First you confused objecting to female overrepresentation (over-presence) with objecting to female representation (presence) ('your real problem is that Randall likes using female stick figures'). Then you moved to confusing objecting to female overrepresentation with objecting to *Randall's* female overrepresentation. My objection does not pertain to who is doing overrepresenting, but to the mere fact of it. I would have objected identically to any other writer. Also, your attributing of opposition to female presence in comics (after doing which which you proceeded to asserting my being personally hostile to Randall) is accusing of sexism/misogyny by definition. Also, I am obviously aware of edit history; my use my signature constitutes a reminder that identity is, as I said, irrelevant in discussion. It does not serve to obscure anything. You have a remarkable record of falsehoods. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.90}}
::::::This is the most persistent troll I have seen in a long while. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.185|108.162.215.185]] 14:44, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
::::::: I regret that this is your reaction to my pointing out your false claims. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.203.152}}
::::::::I didn't make any false claims for you to point out. My comment about your trolling was the first comment I made. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.185|108.162.215.185]] 15:41, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:I'm confused. Are you merely making an observation about the number of female stick figures vs male stick figures in these comics or are you saying that there is a problem that needs to be solved? If so, what is the problem and potential solution? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.229|108.162.215.229]] 21:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)What?
:: The problem is giving a false impression regarding female academic capacity. The solution is Randall ceasing to overrepresent females. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:::First, you say that giving a false impression regarding female academic capacity is a problem, but have given nothing to show why it is a problem. I don't think it's fair to say that this comic strives in all points to represent the world exactly as it is, and as an artistic endeavor, I don't believe it necessarily should. Art allows the artist to express a world view different than reality in a safe place. Second, where is the harm being done? Lastly, I reject the premise of your argument. I have studied these comics very hard and can find no discernible genitalia in which to classify the stick figures in question as either anatomically male or female. If we are going based on gender, you would need each character presented to give declarative statements self-identifying as a certain gender in order to affirm them as female or male or other. If those are not available, then you are simply applying your heteronormative bias and assumptions onto these stick figures unfairly. Until you address these claims, this discussion is over as its very basis is proven unknowable. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.229|108.162.215.229]] 16:12, 9 November 2016 (UTC)What?
:::: >you [...] have given nothing to show why it is a problem
:::: >where is the harm being done
:::: If you are asking for proof that truth is preferable over falsehood, I suggest that you give your priorities a look.
:::: >I don't think it's fair to say that this comic strives in all points to represent the world exactly as it is
:::: Again (see the other subthread of this discussion which I'm replying in), the problem is that Randall gives zero indication that the female overrepresentation is just artistic licence or even representation of his wish how matters be. He depicts it as natural.
:::: >Art allows the artist to express a world view different than reality in a safe place.
:::: Agreed. Except, similarly to objections to this very comic # 1756, what Randall does with respect to female representation is not art -- it is just furthering a certain conviction regarding female capacity. It's no more art than product placement is.
:::: >can find no discernible genitalia in which to classify the stick figures in question as either anatomically male or female
:::: Right, two characters engaging in sex in supine position (598, 940), one of which has hair and one hasn't, are clearly lesbians one of whom is shaven.
:::: >you would need each character presented to give declarative statements self-identifying as a certain gender in order to affirm them as female or male or other
:::: This is ridiculous noise. <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.78}}
:Randall is in the unique and incredible position to portray the world not as it is, but as it we hope it one day will be. Imagine how many women and girls can encounter these comics in their classrooms or read them online, and have the chance to see all sorts of female rolemodels in the heavily underrepresented STEM fields. The only limit on "female academic capacity"is girls being shown and told that they have no place in science. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, Randall is playing an important role in remedying this phenomenon. For scientific progress, for the unique views, backgrounds, and ways of thinking that a diversity of people can bring to STEM, it is amazing that Randall presents - without fanfare, without emphasis, and, most importantly, without implication of a degradation of men - a world in which women play a significant role in science. It is depictions like these that may inspire the next generation of talented and diverse young scientists.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.125|173.245.52.125]] 03:00, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
:: Your sentimental prose is rendered irrelevant by a simple brief fact: motivation must never rely on distortion of truth.
:: >The only limit on "female academic capacity"is girls being shown and told that they have no place in science.
:: This is literally false.
:: >female rolemodels in the heavily underrepresented STEM fields
:: Women are not underrepresented in STEM. The amount of their presence corresponds to their innate inclinations.
:: >the unique views, backgrounds, and ways of thinking that a diversity of people can bring to STEM
:: Desirability of diversity assumes that all members of the diversity are equally capable and focused on the subject in the first place.
:: >Randall is playing an important role in remedying this phenomenon.
:: There is nothing to 'remedy', because there is nothing wrong in the first place. Gender equality is not some sort of inherent state that has been deviated from. There is nothing wrong with wanting female membership in anything to equal males, or even exceed them -- but it is wrong to imply that the reason for failures of such attempts is 'bias'.
:: >unique and incredible position to portray the world not as it is
:: Reread this sentence until you appreciate what you just wrote.
:: >It is depictions like these that may inspire the next generation of talented and diverse young scientists.
:: Motivation must never happen at the expense of truth. By all means say 'I want more women in science' -- it's fine. But saying 'women's absence from science results from environmental prejudice' is false. <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>{{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
:: Also, regarding 'most importantly [!], without implication of a degradation of men' -- this is literally false as well. In most comics containing discussion between a woman and a man, it is the man that asks a question/listens and the woman that elaborates / gives facts / corrects him. Men in xkcd literally are presented as the less educated gender. Quantifying that is necessarily somewhat imprecise, but I browsed comics 1423-1483 (the numbers are arbitrary) and the proportion of comics depicting the man as having less clue than the woman is 11 : 3. (See comics 1430, 1513, 1586, 1605 for example of what I mean.) <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> {{unsigned ip|162.158.201.84}}
::: "Women are not underrepresented in STEM. The amount of their presence corresponds to their innate inclinations." - Wow. Just wow. David, this guy is insistent that women are innately less good at science than men - not that they are given less opportunities, but that they are given equal opportunities and encouragement, but still are just too stupid to do proper science. Expressing opinions like that, it's no great surprise that he (he's definitely a he) wishes to remain anonymous.
::: To be honest, I don't think he's trolling - trolls don't have this much commitment. I think he's expressing his actual, genuine beliefs. Scary.
::: To the anonymous coward - SIGN YOUR POSTS, or leave this comic. Go write your own blog post on the nature of signatures, if you like, or make your own wiki with your own rules. The message about the comic doesn't contain signatures, because there, the message is the only important thing. This is the discussion section, and these are the rules. I disagree with you very strongly, but I'm perfectly happy to have a civil discussion with you here IF you stick to the basic rules. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 11:00, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

A little disappointing to have a normally lighthearted comic dive seriously into politics, if even for one strip. Not really a fan of either candidate, but would like to see stuff like this stay above the fray. {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.100}}
:Completely agreed. [[User:SeanAhern|SeanAhern]] ([[User talk:SeanAhern|talk]]) 18:27, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Completely agreed 2. At first I though it's some kind of a romance statement ("be with her"). And from explainxkcd I have learnt that it's an US campaign ad. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.150|162.158.202.150]] 22:19, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::Lighthearted? Try to read the comics in the [[:Category:Politics]] and [[:Category:Climate change]]. Also there are many other comics that are not at all light hearted. You must have mistaken this with some other web comic? :) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:33, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Yes, lighthearted. Even the earlier political and climate change strips had a bit of humor in them (the only ones that really didn't have at least an attempt at humor were the cancer strips, understandably), this is just a straight up political ad. And while it's Randall's strip and he can do whatever he wants with it, it's just a little disappointing that he dove straight in to political ads. If nothing else, something like Black Hat trolling by voting for himself.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.100|162.158.69.100]] 12:34, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Well at least the I'm with her, could be interpreted like the "I'm with stupid"... :-) She is just less stupid than the alternative. Guess he seriously hopes this comic could make a difference and that he is afraid to do nothing. He reaches many people so who knows if this comic might swing an important state. You never know in a tight race. And although {{w|Nate Silver}} ([[:Category:Comics featuring Nate Silver|often referred to]] by Randall in the past) says that it's a [http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clinton-gains-and-the-polls-magically-converge/ 70% chance Hillary wins] then he is also not certain it will be her. So Randall does his best to avoid Trump as the big chief... He is even willing to loose some fans, although I think the majority of his readers prefers a world without a President Trump! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:51, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::I don't think he thought this through. Most likely most of the people this comic would have reached were those already going to vote for Clinton, but the small fraction that were undecided/ leaning-Trump probably were actually motivated by this to vote against her. I know I was pushed that way by the persistent media pro-Clinton coverage, not just in news network, but in other stuff that I usually enjoy, like the recent Big Bang Theory episode, basically celebrity that exists and now xkcd. I go to these places to go away from politics, but if you all want to force it down my throat everywhere I go, then fuck you all. That doesn't mean that I won't come back here or to any of the other places I visit, but to me at least this is no longer a haven where I can escape from politics, and that does mean something. {{unsigned ip|162.158.178.8}}
::::::I get what you're saying, and I appreciate the sentiment. I'm also glad that you won't let this deter you from the comic. May I point out that this is the first explicitly politically-partisan comic in nearly 2000 of them, and takes place at the end of a historically bitter election campaign; but let's be honest, even if this is not a one-off but repeated once every four years, it's still only about 1 comic in 500. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 12:58, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

This is a first... comics 500 and 1130 (possibly 1131 too) were related to the election, but didn't endorse a candidate. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.89|108.162.219.89]] 18:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:I think Randall is pretty much just saying '''OH GOD PLEASE DONT VOTE FOR TRUMP''' [[User:GizmoDude|GizmoDude]] ([[User talk:GizmoDude|talk]]) 20:59, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:: If Randall was saying that, he'd also be bringing up third party candidates (honestly surprised he didn't endorse Jill Stein considering she's more pro-science than Hillary. And before anyone says "anti-vax", check snopes. Jill Stein is so pro-vax [she's volunteered time vaccinated children and is on record saying she wants to increase vaccination rates], pro-addressing-climate[she's green party who has that as a primary platform], and wants to replace the people with business degrees on the panels of the FDA with people with science degrees. Jill is so pro-science and that it makes Hillary look like a flat-earther.) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.42|108.162.246.42]] 21:30, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Jill Stein's stance on nuclear energy is an unscientific as it gets. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.196|108.162.210.196]] 23:28, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Hillary Clinton's ideas on encryption are in denial of science. Clinton's stance on coal is unscientific, she's pretty abysmal on fracking and natural gas too. Stein could be a lot better, but if Stein is tofu sarah palin, clinton is just palin with a college degree [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 03:32, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
:::: Likewise her position on GMOs. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}
::::No no no. If Randal just wish that Trump should not become president there is only one way to achieve this and that is by making Hillary win. This is not even saying that he likes her, he just dislikes the alternative more. Voting for anyone else might just help Trump. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:33, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Also, it looks like minutephysics has done a similar thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDeL4LGuBx4 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.89|108.162.219.89]] 00:44, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I came here to see what the tone of the comments were going to be. I was half expecting to find an all-out flamewar in progress. I was happy to see that the comments have not devolved into the kind of attacks that one would expect to find pretty much anywhere else on the Internet. Geeks are the best people. :) [[User:Mwburden|mwburden]] ([[User talk:Mwburden|talk]]) 18:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm very dissappointed. Randall never took sides before and - be it as it may - this comic is not a comic but plain out political campaign. Up until now I held xkcd in EXTREMELY high esteem - this comic put a serious dent in that opinion..
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.60|162.158.91.60]] 18:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: I'm really torn about this one. On the one hand I feel that you HAVE to take sides in this one, if your only other option is Donald Trump... on the other hand, I never liked when web comics express political opinions. It will always end in a flame war and almost never have anything to do with the web comic itself. Randall should've just put up a "go vote becaues it's important" sign without taking sides. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 19:17, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm sure there are other comics out there that would agree with your ideology. [[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]] ([[User talk:Sturmovik|talk]]) 19:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Randall should do whatever Randall thinks he should do. Should he put up "go read about global warming" comics instead of take the side of AGW? If you think this example is an inappropriate one to use in contrasting this comic with the current political election cycle then you've completely ignored the stances of the two popular candidates. But back to the original point: if you don't like XKCD anymore because of this one comic then go find another comic or start your own. All of art is an expression of the person. Randall knew not everyone would like his beliefs when he pushed this out to the world and is obviously prepared to deal with any consequences of taking a stand on his website. I, for one, applaud him for doing so {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.19}}
:: Randall did a comic about global warming a while back, which was very interesting. Because I heard the "earth has warmed up before" argument before and even used it myself at least once. The difference about the global warming comic is that he backed it up with scientific facts, which is well within the scope of this comic. Political opinions aren't (or did the slogan change to ''A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language and politics''?). Yes, of course he can do with his web comic whatever he wants to. But readers can express their opinions about what he does with it. It's called "freedom of speech", you know?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.201.96|162.158.201.96]] 20:47, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:::[[1357|There's a comic for that.]] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.230|162.158.214.230]] 21:19, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Randall has endorsee Obama in 2008 and it is his comic and he can use it to endorse anyone he likes. I'm pretty sure he believes that he will only loose a few real fans of xkcd over this comic, because those who really enjoys all his comics in spite of for instance climate comics would really not like to see Trump as president. And would thus be happy if this comic helped in any way to avoid that. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Can you help list all the characters in the transcript? From left to right; they're Joanna (ponytail with EMP cannon) from [[322]]; Black Hat; unknown with kite; White Hat; possibly Miss Lenhart (but his hair is somewhat different from [[1519]]); unknown possibly Megan; cueball; unknown woman with glasses; Hairbun; Beret Guy; Cueball with toy sword from [[303]]. [[User:B jonas|B jonas]] ([[User talk:B jonas|talk]]) 19:10, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Not Miss Lenhart. Blondie. They are listed now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Good for Randal. I had been noticing how many Hillary leaning artists had been pulling their punches this election, likely out of fear of trolling or loss of revenue. You want to know what courage looks like? This is is. [[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]] ([[User talk:Sturmovik|talk]]) 19:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Title text hasn't been explained yet. Is it a reference to the German chancellor Angela Merkel's phrase "Wir schaffen das!'? Don't know if Clinton has a slogan like Obama's "Yes, we can!". {{unsigned ip|162.158.91.36}}
: That's the same I thought. But I'm not sure how well known this phrase is outside of Germany. However "Wir schaffen das!" always had a bitter taste - even considered ironic or sarcastic by some - (which e.g. "Yes, we can!" didn't), so I interpreted "We can do this!" as voting for Clinton is simply the lesser evil. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:15, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I find (linking to )this civicinnovation website rather questionable. They want to audit peoples address books based on who the names in there might vote for? That sounds like Erich Mielkes wildest dreams come true. Even German newspapers (where i'm from), which are 100% anti-Trump, have in the last days noted concern about the methods of Clintons supporters bullying the other side, and this is a disquieting new piece in that picture. I'll hope this is just a ploy to step up with Trump on the ''bad manners'' side. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.160|162.158.91.160]] 19:37, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

;Not all comics have to be humorous

From [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics#Etymology]
:The English term ''comics'' derives from the humorous (or "[[wikt:comic|comic]]") work which predominated in early American newspaper comic strips; usage of the term has become standard for non-humorous works as well. {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.57}}

:The problem is that this isn't a comic, this is a campaign ad. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.38|162.158.238.38]] 20:32, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

;Could we please just NOT get politics involved in the comments, guys?

Just... please? [[User:Papayaman1000|Papayaman1000]] ([[User talk:Papayaman1000|talk]]) 20:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Are you serious. What had you expected :-) This is the most loaded comic of all time. It will even take down [[388: Fuck Grapefruit]], even though [[388:_Fuck_Grapefruit#Controversy|it beat his blog]] about his Obama endorsement. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall has taken a side in a political Argument before: Not counting the near-invisible easter egg, comic 1005 consists solely of Randall taking a stance on something political and providing links to show how you can help. That wasn't too long ago, but no one freaked out about a serious, political strip back then.
[[User:CJB42|CJB42]] ([[User talk:CJB42|talk]]) 20:39, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Policy to candidates is not an apples to apples comparison. People get much more up in arms when the topic is either a candidate or policy that goes against religious text or teachings. SOPA and PIPA were neither (well, unless you count GNU as some kind of internet religion). [[User:Zernin|Zernin]] ([[User talk:Zernin|talk]]) 21:22, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

It's sad to see a guy who is so smart in some areas, yet can not see Hillary Clinton for the terrible president she would be. (Granted, part of the reason we only have a few other choices is because of our messed up voting system.) {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.177}}
:I agree with you that Hillary may be worse than almost any one else from the Democrats. But Trump is sooo much further out on a limp, and I'm sure this might be the only reason Randall makes this comic. He is seriously afraid of what woudl happen to the US and the rest of the world if Trump wins --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:38, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Instead of comic, post contained a political statement. I am not amused. I want a refund. I don't vote, and I don't even live anywhere near USA. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.102|141.101.96.102]] 18:40, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:A refund? For what? You pay to read this comic? [[User:Zorlax the Mighty|Zorlax the Mighty'); DROP TABLE users;--]] ([[User talk:Zorlax the Mighty|talk]]) 21:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Darn right you better be with her. If you say anything else, you will "commit suicide". Just ask Vince Foster or Seth Rich if you think I'm crazy.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.77|173.245.48.77]] 21:46, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

What, Randy does not say "Bernie or Bust"? I feel cheated now. :P --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.228|162.158.150.228]] 22:54, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
:Poor Bernie. Poor America. Poor world. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 23:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Just good luck America (and the rest of the world where I belong), whatever happens tomorrow. But I'm hoping Randall can help his candidate win! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:58, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm with her... unfortunately : (. I just didn't think it made sense to donate to a billionaire. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.106|162.158.74.106]] 00:56, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Don't get political in the comments? The fucking "comic" is a fucking political ad. We're going to call this fucker out on his cuckery. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.27|162.158.74.27]] 01:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't give a damn. Sure, I might not agree with his political leanings (hell, I don't want either of them in the WH), but it's just 1 comic. On Wednesday, he'll probably go back to the same stuff he's been doing for 1755 other strips. This will be nothing special. Just one comic. Sure, it might be politically fueled, but just because a person lets their leanings known doesn't mean you should be allowed to call them a "cuck" or cause a talk page for a popular comic, or a Reddit for a popular comic, devolve into the equivalent of monkeys flinging crap at walls. So just please deal with it and move on.
Yours truly, [[User:GranadalandDreamer|GranadalandDreamer]] ([[User talk:GranadalandDreamer|talk]]) 01:14, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall's with *her*? good to know that randall considers arab life worthless/supports financiers over single African-american mothers/refuses to understand encryption/would rather spend public money on coal than retrain miners/loves trade deals that will hurt the poorest, increase inequality, damage the environment, homogenize culture, allow private corporations to sue elected governments/can't make his mind up over the Dakota Access pipeline/changes his accent depending on which state he is stumping in/was late to supporting gay marriage/lied repeatedly about coming under sniper fire in bosnia/has had to repeatedly plead incompetence or rely on bureaucratic politics to evade formal breach of contract or charges of criminality. Iowa, Utah and Wisconsin may have Gloria la Riva of the Party for Socialism and Liberation on the ballot, if you want a candidate who isn't an elitist. And if you didn't want splitters, you should have voted for Bernie. [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 02:12, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I mean it's not like Trump is going to be a whole lot better for Arab people, Black people, gay people, or pretty much anyone who's not a straight white dude. It's quite possible he voted for Bernie, but at this point it's a little late for him to be asking others to support Sanders. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.71}}

:No, but that doesn't mean we should settle for clinton. It is not late to be asking for people to support Sanders, if anyone was doing that, because if the senate swings to the democrats he ends up in charge of the budget committee. Oh and I forgot one: randall is apparently also planning to disappoint all of us, even those who loathe him, within 100 days. [[User:Cockhorse|Cockhorse]] ([[User talk:Cockhorse|talk]]) 05:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

: Trump would be a whole lot better for all Americans, not just "straight white dudes". He won't be better for people in other countries looking to illegally enter the United States, but why shouldn't an American President be like this? You're just throwing demographic categories around thinking you're making an argument against Trump. Only those who buy into the leftist narrative will believe you. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}

Looks like the Trumpettes are getting rather triggered over a web comic. Wasn't there a candidate in this election that was preaching against this whole getting easily offended by words thing? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.43|108.162.238.43]] 03:25, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

This just makes me... sad... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.117|108.162.215.117]] 03:52, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is a webcomic about "romance, sarcasm, language, and math" taking a political stance and telling me who to vote for? Randall can have his own opinion, but this isn't okay. I've read this comic since ... gosh, since the low 200s-300s, so probably over 5 or 6 years and... I think I'm done. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.55|108.162.241.55]] 04:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:''Of course'' it's okay. It's his comic, which he gives us for free. He can use it to entertain us, to draw random pictures of extradimensional red spiders, or to advocate for a political candidate and inform people how to vote, especially people who may have a more difficult time doing so (like the disabled and elderly). However, I really ''must'' thank you... you claiming that this "isn't okay", and all the others here with ruffled feathers over it, makes a previously boring comic one of the most hilarious xkcds in a good long while. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.253|141.101.98.253.-730².♫.venus.🍅.Cthulu.♣️]] 10:38, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm surprised this wiki doesn't have a category for 'serious'/'no joke' comics, and least not that I spotted. There should be, and this should be in it. [[User:Teleksterling|Teleksterling]] ([[User talk:Teleksterling|talk]]) 04:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Am I the only one who sees Guy Fawkes in the logo? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.48|108.162.245.48]] 04:33, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

I think the only other time Randall generated that much controversy here in comments was when suggested that all beer tastes bad. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.93|141.101.80.93]] 06:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)rw

* The title text ''may'' be quoting - directly or indirectly - Angela Merkel's slogan ("We can do this", or in German "Wir schaffen das"), but I don't know why unless it's just an appropriate slogan. [[User:Schroduck|Schroduck]] ([[User talk:Schroduck|talk]]) 08:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Hej. I think it was the right thing to do, and if you read some of the older XKCDs (just think about the one about free speech - they just show you the door, and some others) you could have expected that this is his position. even through i would take the vote for stein on my part. I'm sorry for the situation of the citizens of the USA right now. Greetings from Oversea - and good luck today! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.174|162.158.89.174]] 10:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Way to alienate half of your readership, Randall. Well, now we know that Randall is a socialist communist who hates America. {{unsigned ip|162.158.79.235}}
* If you are so repulsed by seeing someone post something that you disagree with that you have to regress to early-teen insults, then I suggest you turn off all your electronic devices and start living in a cave. Engaging with people that we disagree with makes us smarter and better-informed. That said, it's Randall's comic that he provides to us at no charge - and if you stop reading today, you're automatically eligible for a full refund! [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 12:28, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Given that a big chunk of his readers must be non-US, and we don't really give a rat's arse which arse you elect, it is a bit disappointing there wasn't even something a little witty here. Other web-comic authors have often put things like this as an extra one between the others - and given that he missed a comic today, I don't see why he didn't do that. Anyway, have fun you lot and please try not to start any more wars.{{unsigned ip|141.101.98.217}}

Oh we non-USers do care!! I guess Randall just thinks today is too important to not make his position clear. Which is an admirable decision. I'm also shocked and surprised to find there may be Trumpers lurking on xkcd. Glad to hear so many of you are leaving, folks. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.134|172.68.34.134]] 16:46, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:: If you don't know any Trump supporters amongst your personal circle, you're part of the problem. Expand your worldview. {{unsigned ip|108.162.241.57}}

;Hairbun with glasses
I wonder if she is meant to represent [[wikipedia:Susan B. Anthony|Susan B. Anthony]]. SBA did have a bun (most photos) and glasses (later in life), and she is the most obvious person to be placed at the same prominent level as HRC.[[User:Sysin|Sysin]] ([[User talk:Sysin|talk]]) 14:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Well maybe, but Randall has drwan [[Hairbun]] with glasses like this several times before as also mentioned in the gallery. So I do not think any of the characters represents real persons except maybe the only one looking out at us, [[Blondie]] which would be how to draw Hillary in xkcd. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Is that final reminder, about being in line before the polls close true in all 50 states? I believe that Indiana nominally has a different law, that you must be inside the polling building when the polls close in order to vote, which is not quite the same thing. although in practice, it's usually enforced as "be in line" instead [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.45|162.158.75.45]] 15:30, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Frankly, The Hillary Logo isn't particularly egregious. He has two elements suggesting to vote for Hillary (the logo, and the "her"), and 5 elements about increasing general voter turnout. I don't like Clinton, but the comic is mostly about voting, nor voting for Clinton. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.47|108.162.238.47]] 17:41, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Randall's fiance/wife has been diagnosed with cancer, hasn't she (per xkcd 1141: "Two Years")? So if/when President Trump repeals ObamaCare --- and in particular repeals the provisions in regard to "pre-existing conditions" --- then his wife loses her healthcare coverage, doesn't she? This is ample reason for Randall (and his wife, and all cancer patients and their families) to oppose Trump, isn't it? [[User:PNWoldguy|PNWoldguy]] ([[User talk:PNWoldguy|talk]]) 18:07, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

An ad for Hillary? Well, I just removed Thing Explainer and What If from my whistlist. I gave Thing Explainer as a gift last year. I now regret that. Oh, and a coworker's husband blacklisted XKCD from their router. Great idea. {{unsigned|Dayfall}}

Hmmmm...given how this election polarizes (look e.g. in the "Scientific American" for a clear anti-Trump statement which is rather unprecedented for them; dunno about "Science") this is a rather mildly pro-Clinton comic. So what? Other celebs took their stance too. (Eagerly still awaiting NSFWComix's comment :-) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.152|162.158.203.152]] 23:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Definitely not a Trump supporter here... But on the topic of political propaganda on a nerd comic... And the "free speech" comic about free speech "not existing on discussion forums"... The purpose of discussions is to have your beliefs challenged, so you can distinguish good and bad reasoning, refine your beliefs, and alter them due to evidence. Unpopular opinions should be refuted (if faulty premises), or discussed so everyone can decide for themselves. Banning members for unpopular opinions is not a debate, it's an echo chamber. And I mean this for both sides of a discussion, not just supporting one ideology in particular. [[User:Jimbo1qaz|Jimbo1qaz]] ([[User talk:Jimbo1qaz|talk]]) 23:29, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
:Also, I'm a bit disappointed that this comic is a Clinton campaign sign (although nowhere near as much as I would be if this comic was a Trump sign). [[User:Jimbo1qaz|Jimbo1qaz]] ([[User talk:Jimbo1qaz|talk]]) 23:31, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Explanation needs, somewhere on it, the interesting fact that citizens don't receive fines or criminal charges for not voting. I didn't realise that this was so in the U.S., and many other non-U.S. readers might not realise that it's legal to not vote in the U.S. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.121|108.162.249.121]] 01:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
*Most of the world doesn't have compulsory voting. I'm guessing you may be in Australia which does have compulsory voting, but New Zealand doesn't, nor do Canada, UK, Ireland, South Africa, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Russia, Japan, China, Nigeria, Finland, Pakistan, Denmark ... --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.127|108.162.216.127]] 17:44, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Seriously,don't get heated about it. I agree that:

*This is just expressing Randall's opinion.
*Even if it wasn't, he deserves a comic off from jokes.
*The campaign is going o end before I wake up at 6 tomorrow.

Also, could you fucking watch your language? Jacky720 (talk) 03:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

I saw the two forward facing figures as Clinton and Kaine. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 03:49, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Encouraging people to vote, and helping to know how, great. But I was disappointed that he stooped to campaigning for a specific candidate right in his comic, as opposed to his blag. This is a sad day for XKCD. {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.43}}

*I wonder if Randall realized that his "get a ride to the polls" link would only work for residents in one district of Nebraska -- less than 0.25% of his U.S. readership. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.127|108.162.216.127]] 17:44, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Hilarious comic as always! Hillary as president, lol. Good one, Randall :^) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.152|162.158.203.152]] 21:15, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is the discussion 3/4th of the page with only 1/4 being related to the explanation? And most of the comments being replied to are ones on Women or Sexism, which is bad. Instead they should bitch about Donald Trump, he is the most sexist and racist here.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.50.35|162.158.50.35]] 12:45, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
</div>
 
;Comments from 2017 and later:

;Found the joke
It turns out that this comic was funny in hindsight. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.160|162.158.75.160]] 08:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:Ha ha ;-) But I think that most of those that rooted for Randall and Hillary fails to see the funny part now, [[1756#Sad_comics|especially Randall]], but probably also several of those that actually voted for Trump in a protest either against the system of Hillary personally... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:29, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Today was the first time I saw it, and yes, I guffawed, though definitely from a schadenfreude perspective. Not that I cared who would win, the second most hated person in America or the first most hated person in American (and, in retrospect, those titles were interchangeable), but it is ~always~ funny to see those that either beg for more gov't or those that note that ~their particular~ reason for wanting more gov't is justification to force those ideas onto those who disagree get what they wanted/justified handed to them in spades.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.30|162.158.186.30]] 01:09, 15 August 2017 (UTC)

:This 'sad comics' list is utterly ludicrous, and really should just be removed altogether. It's headed by many bullet points of meaningless blather. And the content is just stupid. Funny gag about a notification bar in a flag being seen as a Randall making a flag for a conspiratorial three-state independence move? Comic about random funny security mishmashes (and clearly about border enforcements and laptop passwords - a very old issue) being seen as comments on Trump's presidency? Just a population distribution map being seen as Randall being 'still sad about election results'? A frigging bunch of funny emoji ideas being seen as SECRET REFERENCES to US politics, and not just the dumb things they very very obviously are? A comic about unnecessary reviews being seen as reference to nuclear war? New Year is.. maybe sad, kind of? But pretty spurious. A comic about focus being seen as political commentary. Every freaking comic here is somehow linked to Trump. Most for no reason whatsoever.
:The only person wasting time here is me, for some reason pointing out the utter meaninglessness and ridiculousness of this list. I'll go prune it now. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.241|162.158.111.241]] 00:38, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

1756: I'm With Her

2018-01-10T00:37:40Z

162.158.111.241: Fixing grammar, spelling, formatting. Removing the utterly mad and baseless speculatory sections, being very generous in leaving all sorts of rubbish theories still. This 'Sad' section really needs deleting.

{{comic
| number = 1756
| date = November 7, 2016
| title = I'm With Her
| image = im_with_her.png
| titletext = We can do this.
}}
{{TOC}}
==Explanation==
In this serious, ''no joke'', comic released the day before the {{w|2016 United States presidential election}} (which was more contentious than most, due in part to many people finding both candidates unusually distasteful), [[Randall]] urged his American viewership to vote, and showed his {{w|Political endorsement|endorsement}} for {{w|Hillary Clinton}}, the {{w|US Democratic Party|Democratic}} nominee in the election. She was up against the {{w|US Republican Party|Republican}} nominee {{w|Donald Trump}}, who ended up winning. For the sake of completeness, it should be mentioned that there were also nominees from other parties, including {{w|Green Party of the United States|Green Party}} nominee {{w|Jill Stein}}, and {{w|Libertarian Party (United States)|Libertarian}} nominee {{w|Gary Johnson}}. Neither hoped to garner enough votes to become president, but there was a chance {{w|spoiler candidate|they could affect the result}} in some states (no third-party candidate has ''won'' a state since {{w|United_States_presidential_election,_1968|1968}} - and it did not occur this time either - the closest any came in 2016 was independent candidate {{w|Evan McMullin}} in Utah.)

It was the second time Randall referred to this election, the first being [[1748: Future Archaeology]] three weeks before the election, but here it was just a wish to know the result using time travel (of course he did not learn the result back then…).

The "H" with an arrow was {{w|Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, 2016|Clinton's campaign}} logo, and '''I'm with her''' an official slogan that was widely used by her supporters, hence the title. Randall then lists tips to help you cast your vote ([[#How to help|see table below]]) suggesting a personal investment in the election. Clinton herself may be represented by [[Blondie]] sitting on top of the H looking out at the reader as the only of the 11 characters. The only type of joke in the comic is the chosen characters. Two with weapons flank the left and right side looking out ready to defend against Trump. Both are from earlier comic. Especially [[Ponytail]] with a ray gun (the one she also wielded in [[322: Pix Plz]]). The gun is for melting computers of persons that make snide remarks at women, clearly a reference to {{w|Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations|Donald Trump's sexual harassment of women}} in general and especially to his ''grab them by the pussy'' {{w|Donald Trump and Billy Bush recording|comment}}. [[Cueball]] with his weapon is from [[303: Compiling]]. See more details in the [[#Character gallery|character gallery]] below.

This is the first time Randall has used a comic to directly support a presidential campaign, although he did [https://blog.xkcd.com/2008/01/28/obama/ endorse] {{w|Barack Obama}} in 2008 on his [[Blag]]. He wrote himself later that it was very controversial when he endorsed Obama, but that it was not the most [[388:_Fuck_Grapefruit#Controversy|controversial comic he had published]] at that time. This comic might take that prize now, given that this was one of the most discussed elections up to its time. This is particularly noteworthy outside the US - for example, some European leaders openly opposed Trump, while others supported him. There were also reports of Russian hackers attempting to influence the election.

Randall's support for Hillary Clinton may have been due in part to Donald Trump {{w|Donald_Trump#Healthcare.2C_education_and_environment|being a prominent}} {{w|climate change denier}}. Randall has published comics opposing climate change denial such as this: [[1732: Earth Temperature Timeline]], published less than two month before the election, as well as several other [[:Category:Climate change|comics on climate change]]. Also Trump beating Clinton made Randall's [[1313: Regex Golf|regex that matches the last names of elected US presidents but not their opponents]] impossible to update.

All the information on the bottom half of the comic includes sites, numbers, info, etc., current as of 2016, that are intended to help US voters to vote, regardless of whom they vote for. Including this information can assist voters who don't understand the process, don't feel that it's worth it, or feel intimidated or threatened. In general, these sites and numbers were likely included to help boost voter turnout.

The title text, which states that "We can do this" refers to Randall's desire to unite Democratic voters and elect Hillary Clinton to the White House instead of Trump. It is possible to [https://www.lookhuman.com/design/86542-hillary-clinton-we-can-do-it/tshirt buy t-shirts] with the famed {{w|We Can Do It!}} logo from the "Rosie the Riveter" wartime poster, but with Hillary Clinton in the famed position. However this is not quite the same "We can do this" sentence that Randall uses. "We can do this" (or in German, "[https://www.dict.cc/?s=Wir+schaffen+das+%5BAngela+Merkel%5D Wir schaffen das]") was also the catchphrase of the German Chancellor {{w|Angela Merkel}} during the recent influx of refugees from the Syrian War — like Clinton, Merkel was fighting against {{w|Pegida|a populist nativist movement}} that wanted to close the country's borders.

Unfortunately for Randall, these efforts were in vain, as {{w|Donald Trump}} (another populist nativist who wants to close the country's borders) was elected on Tuesday, November 8, falsifying the title-text. This result became a fact less than two week before the first ([[1761: Blame]]) of [[#Sad comics|several sad comics]] that all seemed related to the election of Donal Trump.

===How to help===
The list of things that can help is all about getting people to vote. While Randall is likely to have wanted to boost voter turnout regardless of political leanings, it's clear from his endorsement of Clinton that he believed increased turnout would have helped her win the race. There is general evidence that certain more heavily Democratic-leaning demographics are less likely to vote, and in this election in particular, the various political issues that had been raised against Hillary (such as the {{w|Federal Bureau of Investigation|FBI's}} public disclosures of its investigation into her use of a private email server) were shown to have reduced enthusiasm among Democrats. But all these issues aside, both Republicans and Democrats alike agree on encouraging everyone to vote, and Randall is likely to have agreed with that sentiment as well.

Here is Randall's list of suggestions for how to help Hillary Clinton win the election:
{|class="wikitable"
!What to do
!How to do it
!Explanation
|-
|Vote
|[https://iwillvote.com/ iwillvote.com]
|A site to look up polling locations, ID requirements, etc.
|-
|Get a ride to the polls:
|[http://www.drive2vote.org/ drive2vote.org]
|For voters in Douglas and Sarpy County, Nebraska, who needed a ride to the polls from {{w|Warren Buffett}} or his friends.
|-
|If you're having problems voting
|[http://www.866ourvote.org/ 866-OUR-VOTE]
|Racism or other biases on the part of people running polling places is a real issue for minorities. Though it is illegal, people may lie or deny rights to would-be-voters who they believe will not vote for the candidate they agree with. In some instances, voters may require backup from someone with legal understanding to get to vote, which is a service this phone number provides. Since Donald Trump has suggested that unofficial {{w|poll watchers}} should patrol voting stations - which has been described as potential [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/05/election-day-violence-donald-trump-poll-watchers voter intimidation] - this has been an especially widely discussed topic in this election. The phone number written out as numbers is (866) 687-8683
|-
|Experimental social turnout project
|[http://www.civicinnovation.com/ civicinnovation.com] App Store: VoteWithMe
|An app which "gives you a list of the top 10 highest-impact potential voters in your address book to get in touch with -- based on the likelihood that they support progressive candidates, and that they live in states with the most competitive races". This app is for Android and iOS, with the App Store ID as "VoteWithMe". The "VoteWithMe" app is created by Civic Innovation Works and "uses publicly available voter records to predict which of your contacts are likely to support Democratic candidates, but might not have a plan to vote", as it says on its [https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/votewithme/id1170104517/ App Store Page].
|-
|Reminder:
|If you're in line when the polls close, they have to let you vote.
|This is correct, as is printed on most election pamphlets as part of the ''Voters' Bill of Rights'', as well as being cited on numerous sources online (eg [http://votersedge.kqed.org/en/ca/ballot/election/area/42/section/voting-info?id=statewide-42-ca#section-my-rights-as-a-voter here].) Being turned down for trying to vote after the polling place is officially closed (if you were already in line ''when'' the polls closed) might be an instance where you want to use the phone number mentioned above.
|}

===Character gallery===
The comic shows a gallery of 11 xkcd characters including all the main characters from xkcd (except [[Hairy]]), which stand united behind Randall and Clinton despite their lack of agreement in many other comics.

*From left to right on the left side of the H are: 
**[[Ponytail]] with a ray gun (the one she also wielded in [[322: Pix Plz]], a comic where she was named Joanna). The gun it for melting computers of persons that make snide remarks at women, clearly a reference to {{w|Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations|Donald Trump's sexual harassment of women}} in general and especially to his Grab Pussy comment.
**[[Black Hat]] (who was the one introducing Joanna/Ponytail in the mentioned comic)
**[[Danish]] (Black Hat's girlfriend setting up a kite for him, although it could be Megan, but she is also shown later with her regular shorter hair). However it has mainly been Megan in comics with kites, like [[235: Kite]] and [[1614: Kites]]. Kites are a [[:Category:Kites|recurring theme]] on xkcd.
**[[White Hat]] looking at the kite.
*On top of the H are:
**[[Blondie]] (looking out at us, maybe representing Clinton herself)
**[[Megan]] (next to Cueball)
**[[Cueball]] (forming the standard couple in xkcd with Megan)
**[[Hairbun]] with glasses (so specifically not the one from the previous comic [[1755: Old Days]], but rather like in [[1637: Salt Mine]]).
*On the right side of the H are:
**[[Science Girl]] (The adult version of her, is holding her hand out towards a cute squirrel. Of course she could also be the girl from [[635: Locke and Demosthenes]] where the squirrel is poisoned...)
**[[Beret Guy]] is holding a squirrel out towards Science Girl. (The first time squirrels was mentioned was actually when Beret Guy found them in a tree in [[167: Nihilism]] and since then they have become a [[:Category:Squirrels|recurring theme]] on xkcd and a similar squirrel can for instance be seen in [[1503: Squirrel Plan]]. Beret Guy has not been seen together with a squirrel before, but has been shown to care for animals, for instance in [[614: Woodpecker]]).
**[[:Category:Multiple Cueballs|Another Cueball]] is standing on an office chair wielding a sword as he was shown in [[303: Compiling]]. (Interestingly enough the previous comic [[1755: Old Days]] was about Cueball asking Hairbun about {{w|compiling}} in the old days. Seems realistic that Randall has this comic ready for this Monday before the election for some time, and when finding this 9 year old version of Cueball in the old comics, he may have gotten inspired to make a comic about compiling in the old days).

Note that the two characters at either side of the comic wields weapons pointing out defending the other nine. Those next to the characters with weapons are doing recreational things like kiting and admiring adorable squirrels, both are recurring subjects in xkcd.

==Transcript==
:[Eleven characters are drawn left, right and on top of a huge H with an arrow as the horizontal bar connecting the two vertical towers. The arrow breaks the right part of the H. It represents the logo from Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign for 2016. From left to right on the left side of the H are Ponytail with an exotic looking futuristic ray gun like weapon looking to the left away from the H and the others. Behind her is Black Hat who looks at a girl that might be Danish or Megan (but with longer hair than Megan typically has). She is setting up a kite that flies above the first two characters. Behind her and looking up at the kite is White Hat. The H is right behind him, and on top of the left tower of the H sits Blondie looking straight out at the reader with her legs dangling over the edge and her arms resting on her knees. On the arrow between the two H towers sits Megan leaning against the left H tower, also dangling her legs over the edge and arms resting on her knees. Cueball is standing to her right, just left of the right H tower. On top of the right H towers sits Hairbun with glasses looking straight right with her legs dangling over the edge one arm resting on a knee and leaning back on the other arm. On the right side of the H is an adult version of Science Girl holding a hand out towards the squirrel which Beret Guy is holding out in both arms towards her. Behind them is another Cueball standing on an office chair holding a sword high up in front of him to the right away from the others. He keeps his balance by holding his other arm out behind him. Below the H there is a large caption.]
:<big><big><big>H</big></big></big>
: <big><big>I'm with her.</big></big>

:[Below the panel there are several lines of text. The first header line refers to the next four lines with solutions to problems, title/problem on one side then a long dash and the web-link or other information on the right side of that. Below those there is a reminder.]
:<big>How to help</big>
:Vote - iwillvote.com
:Get a ride to the polls - drive2vote.org
:If you're having problems voting - 866-OUR-VOTE
:Experimental social turnout project - civicinnovation.com App Store: VoteWithMe

:<big>Reminder:</big>
:If you're in line when the polls close, they have to let you vote.

==Trivia==
*Despite securing more votes, Hillary Clinton lost the election in the {{w|Electoral college (United States)|electoral college}}.
**She did win in {{w|Massachusetts}} (Randall's home state), but that was never really in any doubt.

===Sad comics===

*After this comic there have been a specualtive trend that '''[[Randall]] has had sad thoughts''' after the {{w|United States presidential election, 2016|election}} of Trump in 2016.
**Over the next few months after the election (at least up until just after Donald Trump’s {{w|Inauguration of Donald Trump|inauguration}}) Randall has posted some comics that could spuriously be interpreted as him being sad/angry or that people around him are acting in such a way.
*Reminiscent of Randall's wife's [[:Category:Cancer|cancer diagnosis]].
*Note that none of these 'sad' comics, including this one, directly mentions Trump at all.
**But this comic indirectly references him as the opponent of the one Randall is with, and a couple other comics could spuriously be claimed as relataed.
**One might vaguely infer a connection from the mood and timing, despite little topical reference. Three comics where released close to some important day on Donald Trump's way to becoming president and another was the New Year comic, thus representing going into the year where Trump actually becomes president. And a fifth was during the days when the first executive order of Trump was overruled (see more below under [[#Focus Knob|Focus Knob]]).
**These comics are collected here because they are not easily collected under a specific category.
*Here below follows a list of the comics related to these supposedly 'sad' comics.
**Relations (if any) between the release day and the comics will also be listed.
**The links points here below to an explanation why each comic is listed here:
*[[#I'm With Her|I'm With Her]] (not one of the sad, thus not numbered)
#[[#Blame|Blame]]
#[[#Negativity|Negativity]]
#[[#2017|2017]]
#[[#Sad|Sad]]
#[[#Focus Knob|Focus Knob]]
#[[#Phone|Phone]]
#[[#Location Reviews|Location Reviews]]
#[[#Vomiting Emoji|Vomiting Emoji]]
#[[#Flag|Flag]]
#[[#Security Advice|Security Advice]]
#[[#Identification Chart|Identification Chart]]
#[[#Eclipse Searches|Eclipse Searches]]
#[[#October 2017|October 2017]]
#[[#2016 Election Map|2016 Election Map]]

====I'm With Her====
*[[1756: I'm With Her]] (This comic)
**2016-11-07: The day before the election:
***It all began when Randall urged his American viewership to vote in the election the day after this comic was released.
***Here he clearly showed his {{w|Political endorsement|endorsement}} for {{w|Hillary Clinton}}, the {{w|US Democratic Party|Democratic}} nominee in the election.
***This comic is clearly not directly sad, though he included two weapon carrying defenders on either side of the comic.
***One of these was [[Ponytail]] with a ray gun (the one she also wielded in [[322: Pix Plz]]). The gun is for melting computers of persons that make snide remarks at women, clearly a reference to {{w|Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations|Donald Trump's sexual harassment of women}} in general and especially to his ''grab them by the pussy'' {{w|Donald Trump and Billy Bush recording|comment}}.
***Randall has often made comics against women harassment before (see for a great example in [[1027: Pickup Artist]]).

====Blame====
*[[1761: Blame]]
**2016-11-18: Ten days after the election.
***This is the first really sad comic in which [[Cueball]] actually begins by stating that: ''I feel sad!'' a clear relation to [[1790: Sad]] (the fourth sad comic after I'm With Her, see below).
***This is likely due to all the angry and scared comments of Cueball’s Facebook friends, and he thus decides to blame them rather than what they are angry about.
***Also the reactions to Trump’s victory on Facebook needed to build up over time before this comic.
***Furthermore there was also some uncertainty to begin with if some states would call for a re-vote etc.
***Still it was only the fifth comic after his campaign for Hillary failed.

====Negativity====
*[[1773: Negativity]]
**2016-12-16: Three days before the {{w|U.S. Electoral College}} voted for {{w|Donald Trump}} to become the 45th president of the United States.
***The first comic with a really negative title. (Like ''Sad'' (see below), although ''Blame'' is of course a negatively loaded word, the comic did not need to be so sad as it was).
***This comic and ''Blame'' could be seen as a small series as Cueball blames his friends on Facebook in the first comic, and then goes outside to avoid all the negativity online in the second, probably worsened for him after he blamed his Facebook friends because: ''Bad thing are happening''.
***Only it does not work because even the grass is after him.

====2017====
*[[1779: 2017]]
**2016-12-30: The [[:Category:New Year|New Year comic]] – a transition to the year when Donald Trump would become president.
***Cueball and [[Megan]] discuss if 2016 could end up as having been better than 2017 since all the bad thing happening in 2016 would first really take effect in 2017.
***The biggest of these would be Trump becoming president, but also {{w|Brexit}} and a lot of {{w|2016#Deaths|dead famous people}} would be troublesome. None of these events (or any other specifically bad event of 2016 are cited in the comic).
***Randall tries to make a happy twist by saying that maybe some unexpected good would come in 2017 as most of the sad events (just mentioned) was not expected to happen.
***But hoping for this in the face of what awaits is difficult so he retorts to just hoping ''they'' won’t cancel the {{w|Solar eclipse of August 21, 2017|2017 solar eclipse}}.
***Fearing (for real) that astronomical events like this being cancelled would call for you to be very depressed. Of course Randall doesn’t fear for this in real life, but it puts a perspective on the other parts of the comic.
***Although the eclipse will certainly happen on August 21st 2017 Randall may still miss it, even if he is in the right place, as the weather could always be overcast and then ruin the experience.
***So the worry that he will miss it is real and had also been mentioned three years earlier in [[1302: Year in Review]].

====Sad====
*[[1790: Sad]]
**2017-01-25: Five days after Donald Trump’s {{w|Inauguration of Donald Trump|inauguration}}.
***This was the comic that sparked this section, with the title really being ''[[#Sad comics|Sad]]''.
***The title "Sad" is a common interjection in Trump's tweets. The time-frame of "the past few months" from the first panel is consistent with this, as the election was on November 8, 2016, and the comic was posted on January 25, 2017 four days after Donald Trump's inauguration as 45th president of the United States on January 20, 2017.
***This was only the second comic released after the inauguration the Friday before this comics Wednesday release.

====Focus Knob====
*[[1796: Focus Knob]]
**2017-02-08: Less than three weeks after Donald Trump’s inauguration, only six comics after the previous Sad comic.
***There is no clear relation to sadness or political reference. Save for possible inferences from the word 'Panic', and Stardew Valley from other comics.
****This also relates back to [[#Sad|Sad]] where the same game was mentioned a week before.

====Phone====
*[[1802: Phone]]
**2017-02-22: During the days before this comic, Trump has promised to make a {{w|Executive_Order_13769#Proposed_related_Executive_Order|related Executive Order}} regarding the banning of people from the same seven countries from entering USA, as was ruled illegal around the time of the [[#Focus Knob|last]] of these comics.
***There is no clear sadness in this comic either, but the conclusion in the title text that it is both bad to hear all the scary news and to disconnect in order avoid them seems rather sad. It is a lose/lose situation.
***The idea of going for a walk with the phone, thus not avoiding the news feed, is the exact opposite idea of [[#Negativity|Negativity]], where going outside was to avoid the negativity on the internet. Neither of the idea seems to work.

====Location Reviews====
*[[1803: Location Reviews]]
**2017-02-24: The relationship between Russia and the United States supposedly became worse months before this comic.
***In this comic a Nuclear Launch Facility is reviewed on a Google Map and the last of the reviewers pleads ''Please don't launch these''. Another notices the lack of security as there is a hole in the fence. (See more in the [[1803:_Location_Reviews#Reviews|reviews explanation]] and [[1803:_Location_Reviews#Politics|here]]).

====Vomiting Emoji====
*[[1813: Vomiting Emoji]]
**2017-03-20: The day of this comics release [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/20/public-editor/trump-russia-fbi-liz-spayd-public-editor.html?_r=0 stories] about Trump's connection with Russia and the word treason was mentioned, and the stories got [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/opinion/theres-a-smell-of-treason-in-the-air.html worse] during the week that followed.
**If so inclined, one could make incredibly spurious, speculative claims about relevance to US politics here:
***A vomiting cowboy, could represents the Americans that votes for Trump but now has regretted it.
***Vomiting Statue of Liberty speaks for it self...
***Vomiting peace dove a clear reference to the fear of Nuclear War, as is the rocket below
***Vomiting Moon, the only one that is not clearly connected in any way with this situation. Although Randall has expressed fear that the moon will be gone before the Eclipse this summer, see [[#2017|above]].
***Vomiting rocket ship, see peace dove above.
***Vomiting Hand, could be a reference to the way Trump always holds up his hand in a special way, which is likely to cause nausea in those that really detest what he stands for.

====Flag====
*[[1815: Flag]]
**2017-03-24: On this day {{w|Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#2017|Trump failed}} to get a vote through for removing/changing {{w|Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act|Obamacare}}.

====Security Advice====
*[[1820: Security Advice]]
**2017-04-05: No special event.
***There are two references to what to do when crossing a border, and especially that last tip could, very speculatively, be related to the increasing border control caused by Donald Trump's election:
***''If a border guard asks to examine your laptop, you have a legal right to challenge them to a chess game for your soul.''

====Identification Chart====
*[[1824: Identification Chart]]
**2017-04-17: No special event.
***Once again reference to the military like in [[#Location Reviews|Location Reviews]].
***In the title text hostility between fighter-plane like birds that are territorial are mentioned.
***Once again, there is absolutely no link here to sadness, or politics.

====Eclipse Searches====
*[[1876: Eclipse Searches]]
**2017-08-14: A week before the total {{w|solar eclipse}} occurring on Monday, {{w|Solar eclipse of August 21, 2017|August 21, 2017}}.
***This is not a sad comic, but it refers directly to the election day regarding media interest and searches on Google, which makes it the first in almost four month referring back to the election or the result of said election. For that reason alone it is included here.

====October 2017====
*[[1898: October 2017]]
**2017-10-04: A month before the similar titles comic [[1757: November 2016]], released the day after the election, both of which had the subject [[:Category:Comics to make one feel old|to make one feel old]].
***The comic mentions a movie that is already 7 years old, to make one feel old.
***But in the title text it refers directly to the election stating that so much has happened (because of this) that it is hard to believe that not even a year has passed since the election itself. However Election 2016 includes the active campaigning which led up to it, starting well before the first state primary election in February 2016.

====2016 Election Map====
*[[1939: 2016 Election Map]]
**2018-01-08: Release close to a year after Trumps inauguration. Could be related to the news that [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/us/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission.html Trump Disbands Commission on Voter Fraud], five days before this comics release.
***The comic displays the distribution of voters across the US in much more detail than the {{w|Choropleth map}} used during the election, which makes large states with small population seem more important and also removes any sign that a state is more of less split in half between red and blue.
***Thus the comic displays that Trump did not win many states by a large margin, and it is known Hillary won the popular vote.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Danish]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Science Girl]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Beret Guy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring politicians]] 
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Kites]]
[[Category:Squirrels]]

1904: Research Risks

2017-10-19T10:28:44Z

162.158.111.241: /* Table */

{{comic
| number = 1904
| date = October 18, 2017
| title = Research Risks
| image = research_risks.png
| titletext = The 1919 Great Boston Molasses Flood remained the deadliest confectionery containment accident until the Canadian Space Agency's 2031 orbital maple syrup delivery disaster.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BUN - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This is a comparison of the possibility of the subjects of various sciences being a threat to humanity. It can either be an autonomous threat to the local population (i.e. by escape from a lab), or as part of a supervillain's scheme to rule the world. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBkT19uH2RQ]

There have so far been several similar comics with such [[:Category:Scatter plots|scatter plots]]. See for instance [[388: Fuck Grapefruit]], [[1242: Scary Names]], [[1468: Worrying]], [[1501: Mysteries]] and [[1701: Speed and Danger]].

The title text is related to the Molasses Storage entry at the bottom left of the chart, and references the {{w|Great Molasses Flood}}, also known as the Great Boston Molasses Flood. It occurred on January 15, 1919 in the North End neighborhood of {{w|Boston}}, {{w|Massachusetts}} (the state in which [[Randall]] lives). A large {{w|molasses}} storage tank burst and a wave of molasses rushed through the streets at an estimated 35 mph (56 km/h), killing 21 and injuring 150. The joke in the title text is that in 2031 (14 years after the release of this comic) the {{w|Canadian Space Agency}} has an even more serious disaster, which will be known as the orbital {{w|maple syrup}} delivery disaster. The title text claims that this disaster then became the deadliest {{w|confectionery}} containment accident, thus killing more than 21 people...

==Table==
{| class="wikitable sortable"
! Risk of Breaking Free !! Risk of Supervillain !! Research field !! Research Risks !! Comments
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="6" | very high || Prosthetics || Cyborgs || This is probably a joke related to the fact that many movie supervillains have some handicap, and it is thus likely that such a villain would use some kind of prosthetics, although this might not directly help his evil plan...
|-
| data-sort-value="2" | low || data-sort-value="5" | high || Neuroscience || Mind Control ||
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="5" | high || Laser Optics || Something like {{w|Laser Weapon System}}. Or a powerful laser could be used to [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQwKe0lggw cut the hero in two] as in {{w|Goldfinger}}. || See {{w|Directed-energy weapon}}.
|-
| data-sort-value="3" | medium low || data-sort-value="5" | high || Pharmacology || Poisons ||
|-
| data-sort-value="2" | low || data-sort-value="5" | high || Materials Science || Nanobots || See {{w|Grey goo}}
|-
| data-sort-value="2" | low || data-sort-value="4" | medium high || Sociology || Sociological research may help in becoming a tyrant and then lead nation to war. ||
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="4" | medium high || History || Ministry of Truth ||
|-
| data-sort-value="3" | medium low || data-sort-value="4" | medium high || Psychology || Ministry of Truth, Hannibal Lecter ||
|-
| data-sort-value="5" | high || data-sort-value="6" | very high || Robotics || Villains: Robot minions. Escape: robots gaining sentience and killing everything, or nanobots going rogue and devouring everything in their path. ||
|-
| data-sort-value="5" | high || data-sort-value="6" | very high || Genetic Engineering || Villains: Modify troops to make super powered minions. Escape: Modified life could cause havoc || See {{w|Gene drive}}
|-
| data-sort-value="4" | medium high || data-sort-value="5" | high || Chemistry || Explosives ||
|-
| data-sort-value="6" | very high || data-sort-value="5" | high || Microbiology || Lethal diseases || See for instance {{w|12 Monkeys}}
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="3" | medium low || Geology || Golems, Earthquake machines || Study of rocks. Scores below average on the supervillain scale despite Lex Luthor's plan in the 1978 ''Superman'' movie hinging on setting off the San Andreas Fault.
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="3" | medium low || Linguistics || 1984 Newspeak ||
|-
| data-sort-value="2" | low || data-sort-value="2" | low || Paleontology || Jurassic Park || Study of fossils
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="1" | very low || Astronomy || Asteroid impact ||
|-
| data-sort-value="3" | medium low || data-sort-value="1" | very low || Molasses Storage || || See {{w|Great Molasses Flood}}, as referenced in the title text
|-
| data-sort-value="1" | very low || data-sort-value="1" | very low || Dentistry || Torture/Interrogation ||
|-
| data-sort-value="4" | medium high || data-sort-value="3" | medium low || Botany || Audrey II, Triffids || Study of plants
|-
| data-sort-value="5" | high || data-sort-value="3" | medium low || Entomology || Insects are small and can often escape through even small cracks, and are known for carrying diseases. They could also mutate into terrifying threats - see for example the documentary {{w|Arachnophobia_(film)}}|| Study of insects
|-
| data-sort-value="4" | medium high || data-sort-value="2" | low || Mycology || Fungi cannot move, but their spores could easily spread, therefore, escape probability has been deemed medium high. However the risk of mycology being used for evil has raised strongly with the release of Star Trek Discovery.|| {{w|Mycology}} is the study of {{w|fungi}}.
|-
| data-sort-value="6" | very high || data-sort-value="2" | low || Marine Biology || Sharknado, Jaws ||
|-
| data-sort-value="4" | medium high || data-sort-value="1" | very low || Ornithology || Flying is a useful escape mechanism. || Study of birds.
|-
|}

==Transcript==
:[A chart with two crossing lines with double arrows. Each arrow is labeled:]
:Y axis top: High
:Y axis bottom: Low
:X axis left: Low
:X axis right: High

:[Near each of the "high" ends of the two axis there is a label written in gray, with a line pointing to the relevant axis:]
:Y axis: Risk of your research being used by a supervillain for world domination
:X axis: Risk of the thing you're studying breaking free from your facility and threatening the local population

:[The following points are on the charts upper left quadrant (in reading order):]
:Prosthetics
:Neuroscience
:Laser Optics
:Pharmacology
:Materials Science
:Sociology
:History
:Psychology

:[The following points are on the charts upper right quadrant (in reading order):]
:Robotics
:Genetic Engineering
:Chemistry
:Microbiology

:[The following points are on the charts lower left quadrant (in reading order):]
:Geology
:Linguistics
:Paleontology
:Astronomy
:Molasses Storage
:Dentistry

:[The following points are on the charts lower right quadrant (in reading order):]
:Botany
:Entomology
:Mycology
:Marine Biology
:Ornithology

==Trivia==
* The comic initially had the erroneous spelling "Entymology" (possibly a mistaken mix-up between etymology and entomology, similar to [[1012: Wrong Superhero]]). This was later changed to the correct "Entomology".

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Scatter plots]]
[[Category:Rankings]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Robots]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Space]]

Talk:1877: Eclipse Science

2017-08-17T13:00:01Z

162.158.111.241: Citizen science projects in biology etc.

I'm pretty sure his point was actually that in the modern day eclipses are pretty well understood, easy enough to travel to, and provide very little actually unique circumstances, so in reality there is very little scientific value at all. Just a really cool thing to see

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 15:56, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
:Yet still there are some aspects of eclipses such as shadow bands which are unexplained. There are some theories, but eclipses are rare enough, plus shadow bands don't occur with every one, so there is no definitive explanation yet.
:[[User:RChandra|RChandra]] ([[User talk:RChandra|talk]]) 18:56, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
::The explanation of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_bands shadow bands] on wikipedia seems pretty solid to me. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 11:51, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

To me the comic is poking fun at the idea the media (and by extension laypeople in general) perceive eclipses to be of great scientific importance and that scientists are excited about it for that reason. Note how his almost every utterance contains "science". Megan deftly deflects his attempts to put words in her mouth and remains resolute in her stance that eclipses are interesting to everyone on their face value but not necessarily more so to scientists that others. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.160|108.162.216.160]] 19:35, 16 August 2017 (UTC)Pat

I guess Randall is sad that people outside the band seem to have less interest in the eclipse, like shown in the previous comic, and that they might not wish to travel a few hours to see a once in a life time spectacle, or as he also feared in the last comic, try too late to get there and get stuck in the trafic jam outside the totality zone. Being in the 99.9999% dark part is nothing compared to being inside the zone being able to see the corona (the ring in the sky). Go and see it if you have any chance of doing so! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Should we make a new category for eclipse comics?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.58|162.158.214.58]] 11:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
:If he continues tomorrow and Monday maybe. There are so far only really two. The other two comics mentioned in the previous comic only briefly mentions the eclipse. So it is really only two comics so far. And they are not related in their individual subject. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:30, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

The explanation claims, "While some astronomers might be testing elaborate hypotheses during an eclipse, for other scientists (eg. organic chemists and herpetologists) it is just a once in a long time (maybe even once in a lifetime) event which is visually interesting". This is at odds with the existence of several [http://www.reuters.com/article/us-solar-eclipse-usa-projects-idUSKCN1AX100?feedType=RSS&feedName=scienceNews| citizen science projects] encompassing not just astronomy but also atmospheric sciences and animal behaviour. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.241|162.158.111.241]] 13:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

23: T-shirts

2017-03-29T19:26:21Z

162.158.111.241: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 23
| date = October 26, 2005
| title = T-shirts
| image = t-shirts.jpg
| titletext = It's depressing how many of these are real shirts
}}

==Explanation==

This comic satirizes the plethora of "snarky" phrase T-shirts that exist today. In the top-left, the character wears a typical (and real) snark shirt, "I see dumb people" (suggesting the wearer thinks everyone else is dumb, while being a parody of the phrase "I see dead people" from the movie ''{{w|The Sixth Sense}}''). Other shirts shown also suggest the wearer is better than everyone else, and perhaps the shirts increasingly suggest the wearer is anti-social moving from top to bottom. Near the bottom of the screen the T-shirts no longer attempt to be witty and simply have straightforward phrases like "go away" and "die". These are exaggerations of the message that the other more-realistic shirts broadcast.

The final three shirts are also exaggerated shirts that suggest [[Randall]]'s view that people who wear snarky shirts are overcompensating for the fact that they are already alone or perhaps putting up a tough exterior to conceal their sadness that no one would talk to them anyway. Most notably "maybe if this T-shirt is witty enough, someone will finally love me" sums up what Randall thinks snarky shirts really say. There are shirts with this or a similar message; although it is unclear whether they were created before this comic, or as a tribute to this comic.

In the title text, Randall says that it's depressing how many of the shirts in the comic actually exist in real life, further underlining the point that these shirts are overly arrogant, to the point where one might believe that Randall made them up. This highlights the inadequacy of substance within these T-shirts and the terror they invoke in [[Randall]]'s mind.

==Transcript==
:[A collection of phrases on T-shirts. The first and the last on actual black T-shirts worn by the same person, whose facial expression is more sad on the last one.]
:I see dumb people
:As a matter of fact the world '''does''' revolve around me
:I can only please one person per day / today is not your day.
:You know what your problem is? You're stupid.
:Get a clue
:Do I look like a people person?
:Your village called / they want their idiot back
:Go away
:I hate you all
:Die.
:Help.
:Maybe if this T-shirt is witty enough, someone will finally love me.
:Oh God I'm so alone.

==Trivia==
*This was the 24th comic originally posted to [[LiveJournal]].
**The previous was [[22: Barrel - Part 3]].
**The next was [[37: Hyphen]].
*Original title: "Wednesday's Drawing"
*Original [[Randall]] quote: "I saw the 'problem' t-shirt (upper right) on campus a few days ago and suddenly felt so sad."
*This comic was posted on [[xkcd]] when the web site opened on Sunday the 1st of January 2006.
**It was posted along [[:Category:First day on xkcd|with all 41 comics]] posted before that on LiveJournal as well as a few others.
**The latter explaining why the numbers of these 41 LiveJournal comics ranges from 1-44.
*One of the original drawings drawn on [[:Category:Checkered paper|checkered paper]].
*This is one of the few, early comics that contains a non-[[stick figure]] character.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics posted on livejournal| 24]]
[[Category:First day on xkcd]]
[[Category:Checkered paper]]
[[Category:Sarcasm]]

657: Movie Narrative Charts

2017-03-29T19:20:39Z

162.158.111.241: /* Transcript */

{{comic
| number = 657
| date = November 2, 2009
| title = Movie Narrative Charts
| image = movie_narrative_charts.png
| titletext = In the LotR map, up and down correspond LOOSELY to northwest and southeast respectively.
}}
*A [http://xkcd.com/657/large/ larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image at xkcd.com - the comic's page can also be accessed by clicking on the comic number above.

==Explanation==

These charts show movie character interactions. The horizontal axis is time. The vertical grouping of the lines indicates which characters are together at a given time.

=== {{w|Lord_of_the_Rings_film_trilogy|Lord of the Rings Trilogy}} ===
A mass of colored lines weaves back and forth across the chart, representing various characters. Sauron is represented by a red bar at the bottom contained within a huge black bar with branches, that in turn represents his army of nazgul, orcs, etc. Major locations (Moria) and plot points (the breaking of the fellowship) are marked. Gandalf, especially at the beginning, jumps all over the map in a short time. Eagles appear and then disappear a couple of times. Treebeard's line is flat except for the march to Isengard. At the end, the ship to the West drifts off into a corner. The hobbits start off in the top left with Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin with Bilbo with them for a short time because of the party at the beginning. They go off on their adventure and briefly encounter Gandalf. They are then split up for a short time but meet back up at Weathertop when the Nazgul attack and they meet Aragorn (Strider at that point). They meet up with the rest of what becomes the fellowship of the ring at the council of Elrond at Rivendell. The newly formed fellowship Then must venture into the mines of Moria which is referenced in comic [https://xkcd.com/760/ #760] and comic [https://xkcd.com/1218/ #1218]. After the Balrog and the death of Boromir the fellowship splits up. Frodo and Sam take the ring and go off on their own to destroy it and sneak into Mordor with the help of Gollum. Merry and Pippin end up getting captured by the Uruk-hai however are rescued by Eomer and his army. Eomer and his army then reunite with Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn briefly while Merry and Pippin find Treebeard and flood Isengard. While Merry, Pippin and Treebeard are floodin Isengard Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas fight at Helm's Deep with Gandalf and Eomer and Theoden. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas go to wake the army of the dead while Pippin goes with Gandalf and Merry goes with the Rohirrim. All of these people rejoin for the battle of the Pelennor fields where Eowyn kills the withc king after Theoden dies along with Denethor. The orcs and men and oliphants are all destroyed and Aragorn releases the army of the dead. All the surviving members of that battle go to the Black Gate except Eowyn and Faramir. Sam and Frodo destroy the Ring, Gollum dies and everyone that is still alive is there for Aragorn's coronation. Everyone goes back to their respective homes except for Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, and Bilbo who get on a ship to the west.

As the title text points out, most of the plot of The Lord of The Rings occurs on a rough northwest to southeast axis, with the Fellowship of the Ring traveling from the Shire near the top of chart to Modor at the bottom of the chart (and back again.) The most significant exception to the northwest-southeast axis is the area of the chart between "The Breaking of the Fellowship" and "Isengard Flooded." Helm's Deep and Isengard are southwest from the overall northwest-southeast axis of the movies.

=== {{w|Star_Wars|Star Wars (original Trilogy)}} ===
Luke, mostly accompanied by R2-D2, joins and parts from other sets of characters. There's a dotted alternative path on Jabba's line for the special edition. A dark line representing Vader, travels through the duel where he kills Obi-Wan and proceeds to the Death Star to meet with the main charcters for the first time. Vader travels to Hoth where all the characters escape and goes to Cloud City where Han is frozen. He then duels Luke before going for a long time alone and confronts Luke for a short time before taking him to the Death Star II where the climatic duel happens and he is killed. Leia at first with C-3PO is captured and placed on the Death Star before being rescued and proceeds to Hoth, Cloud City, the Sail Barge and finally to the Battle of Endor before reuniting with all the survivors. R2D2 and C-3PO are mostly together save for when Luke is attacking the Death Star and Luke's Jedi training. Luke's line swerves through most of the scenes, breaking away from the other characters during the Jedi Training, the duel on Cloud City and the duel on the Death Star II. Han and Chewie are always together as they go through all the scenes. Greedo, Lando and Boba all appear at there respictive scenes. Yoda appears about halfway through (where Luke's Jedi training is marked). All the surviving lines group up at Endor except for Vader, the Emperor, Luke, and Lando; after the climactic duel, the latter two join the rest.

=== {{w|Jurassic_Park_(film)|Jurassic Park}} ===
The human characters are in black; dinosaurs are in red. Dilophosaurus appears briefly to eat Nedry and then fades out again. the T-Rex appears at the start and swoops down on the cars and eats Gennaro. It then weaves out until the end where it eats the raptors. The three raptors are together at the beginning, but split up about halfway through. One has a dotted portion of line between "locked up" and "escapes." In the meantime, they cut off the lines of Arnold and Muldoon. Malclom, Grant, Sattler, Hammond and the kids all weave in and out of their respective scenes. The raptor lines all end when t-rex's swoops down to meet them at the end, and all the surviving humans leave together.

=== {{w|12 Angry Men (1957 film)|12 Angry Men}} ===
This is a very famous trial film that tells the story of a jury made up of 12 men as they deliberate the guilt or acquittal of a defendant on the basis of reasonable doubt. Only one of these angry men believe the defendant may be innocent and he argues this against the other 11, eventually convincing them that there is reasonable doubt in the case.

The lines are labeled Juror 1 through Juror 12. They are all perfectly horizontal and parallel.

The joke in the 12 Angry Men graphic is that in the movie all 12 jurors (the angry men) are in the same room for the entire duration of the movie. They never move and they all always interact with each other, hence their lines stay straight and close to each other.

This is actually not entirely true. The movie begins in the court room; a couple of times during the proceedings, a few jurors go into the washroom and have a brief discussion there; and finally, in the very last scene, two jurors have a brief exchange in front of the courthouse. In fact, this chart would actually become a useful reference to the film if each of the jury's votes sessions was shaded as battles/events, and each juror's vote shown on their line, tracking when each juror's vote switches from 'guilty' to 'not guilty'. But as far as the characters' locations, there is no need for such a narrative chart, and that is the joke.

=== {{w|Primer_(film)|Primer}} ===
The last box is a movie called Primer from 2004, which became a cult classic. It is about a group of engineers who discover a way to time travel, but only in one direction (backwards) and only at the speed of regular time (i.e. you have to stay in the time machine for one hour to move an hour back in time). Because of this, the story ends up having multiple versions of the same person existing at the same time; the plot and time-travel mechanics are notoriously hard to follow, so that it is almost impossible to figure out where each character is at one time, as the comic illustrates.
Three lines start on the left labeled Abe, Aaron, and Granger. They enter a mass of scribbling. Somewhere vaguely towards the end, three lines emerge and fade out, all labeled with question marks.
The chart for ''Primer'' is referenced in the title text of the fourth image in the [[what if?]] ''{{what if|101|Plastic Dinosaurs}}''.

These charts are a reference to the map by infographic pioneer {{w|Charles Joseph Minard}} that details the movements and losses of Napoleon's troops on his failed conquest of Russia. Napoleon's troops were represented by black, tapering streams similar to the design used for Sauron's and Saurman's troops in the LotR Chart.

==Transcript==

[colors given approximately in HEX at first appearance]

These charts show movie character interactions.
The horizontal axis is time. The vertical grouping of the
lines indicate which characters are together at a given time.

=== Lord of the Rings ===

Lord of the Rings

====[Legend]====
[yellow line (fff500)] ring

[thin line, here dark green (467120)] ringbearer

[grey colored area (e9e9e9)] battle/event

[line ending with a dot, here black] death

[bar, here light brown (daccae)] army

[line, here brown (9d7929), in a bar, here light brown] character leading army

[grey line (b7bfb6)] wizards

[brown line (9d7929)] men

[blue line (4a89a8)] elves

[dark brown line (6c411b)] dwarves

[dark turquoise line, 143035] ents

[green line (4e7629)] hobbits

'''[signs and colors not explained by the legend]'''
*[line starting / ending with a little sun means appearance / disappearance]
*[dark grey line (Eagles)]

====[Entering and leaving of characters] ====

'''[Characters entering the chart on the left, from top to bottom]'''
*Merry [green line]
*Pippin [green line]
*Sam [green line]
*Frodo [green line]
*Bilbo [green line]
*Gandalf [grey line, disappearance and reappearance marked by the sun-symbol]
*Arwen [blue line]
*Elrond [blue line]
*Galadriel [blue line]
*Saruman [grey line]
*Wormtongue [brown line]
*Éomer [brown line]
*Théoden [brown on light brown bar]
*Éowyn [brown line]
*Boromir [brown line on light brown bar]
*Denethor [brown line on light brown bar]
*Faramir [brown line]
*Sauron [red line (a23939) on black bar]

'''[Characters leaving the chart on the right side, from top to bottom]'''

[The five characters leaving off the top border of the chart]

*Frodo
*Gandalf
*Bilbo
*Elrond
*Galadriel

[text next to the group of five] Ship to the West

[other characters leaving on the right side]

*Merry
*Pippin
*Sam
*Treebeard [dark turquoise line]
*Legolas [blue]
*Gimli [dark brown line]
*Éomer
*Arwen
*Aragorn [brown line]
*Éowyn
*Faramir

''' [characters starting or leaving in the middle the chart] '''
*Nazgûl [black line, emerging from the black bar of Sauron's army, disappearance and reappearance marked by the sun-symbol. Second appearance splits splitting in two branches. Both end with death.]
*Aragorn [brown line, emerging via a dotted line]
*Legolas [blue line, emerging via a dotted line]
*Gimli [dark brown line, emerging via a dotted line]
*Eagles [dark grey line (808080), emerging and vanishing twice via a dotted line (second time after splitting into two branches)]
*Uruk-Hai [black bar, two groups emerging out of Saruman's line]
*Gandalf [grey line, disappearance and reappearance marked by the sun-symbol]
*Dead [light green bar, emerging out of nothing, lead by Aragorn, disappearance marked by the sun-symbol]
*Ents [grey bar, emerging out of nothing, lead by Treebeard]
*Men&Oliphaunts [black bar, emerging out of nothing]
*Elves [light blue bar (b3cdda), emerging near the line of Galadriel]
*Gollum [dark green line, emerging via a dotted line]
*Treebeard [dark turquoise line, emerging via a dotted line]

==== [List of battles/events as displayed in the chart] ====

*Bilbo’s party [joined by] Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo, Bilbo, Gandalf [ring goes from Bilbo to Frodo]

*Gandalf imprisioned [joined by] Gandalf, Saruman, Eagles

*Weathertop [joined by] Nazgûl, Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo with the ring, Aragorn |

*Council of Elrond [including] Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo with the ring, Aragorn, Bilbo, Elrond, Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf, Boromir

*Moria [including] Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo with the ring, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf [disappearance], Boromir

*Breaking of the Fellowship [including] Merry, Pippin, Sam, Frodo with the ring, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir [death], Uruk-Hai [black]

*Hobbits escape [including] Éomer, Merry, Pippin, Uruk-Hai [death]

*Helm’s Deep [including] Éomer, Gandalf, Elves [death], Uruk-Hai [death], Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Théoden

*Isengard flooded [including] Treebeard [with bar of ents-army in grey], Merry, Pippin, Saruman [death], Wormtongue [death]

*Pelennor fields [including] Aragon [with bar of Dead-army in light green (bbcbad)], Legolas, Gimli, Merry, Éomer, Éowyn, Pippin, Gandalf [with bar in light brown], Faramir, Men&Oliphaunts [death], Orcs [death], Nazgûl [death and disappearing], Théoden [death], Denethor [death]

*Black gate [including] Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Merry, Éomer, Pippin, Gandalf [with bar in light brown], Orcs [death], Eagles, Nazgûl [death] [this battle/event-area is joined with ring destroyed-area]

*Ring destroyed [including] Sam, Frodo, Gollum [death], Sauron [death], Nazgûl [death] [this battle/event-area is joined with Black Gate-area]

*Aragorn crowned king [including] Arwen, Elrond, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Merry, Éomer [without army], Pippin, Gandalf [without army], Éomyn, Faramir, Sam, Frodo

=== Star Wars (original triology) ===

Star Wars (original triology)

====[Entering and leaving of characters] ====

'''[Characters entering the chart on the left, from top to bottom]'''

*Vader [black line]
*Leia [grey line]
*R2-D2 [blue line]
*C-3P0 [yellow line]
*Obi-Wan [grey line]
*Luke [grey line]
*Han [grey line]
*Chewie [brown line]
*Jabba [green line]

'''[Characters leaving the chart on the right side, from top to bottom]'''

*Luke
*Lando [grey line]
*Chewie
*Leia
*R2-D2
*C-3PO
*Han

''' [Characters starting or leaving not in battle/avent-areas and not on the left/right side of the chart] '''

*Greedo [green line]
*Jabba Special edition [green dotted line, marking an alternative way for Jabba that unites after a little loop with Jabba main line.]
*Yoda [green line, death also marked on the chart but not marked in an battle/event-area]
*Boa Fett [green line]
*Empperor [black]

==== [List of battles/events as displayed in the chart] ====

*Leia rescued [including] Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Obi-Wan, R2-D2, C-3PO

*Duel [first] [including] Vader, Obi-Wan [death]

*Death Star [including] Vader, Luke, R2-D2, Han, Chewie

*Hoth [including] Vader, Luke, Han, R2-D2, Chewie, Leia, C-3PO

*Luke's entire Jedi training [including] Yoda, Luke, R2-D2

*Han frozen [including] Boba Fett, Vader, Han, Chewie, Leia, C-3PO, Lando

*Duel [second] [including] Luke, Vader

*Sail barge [including] Luke, Chewie, Leia, R2-D2, C-3PO, Lando, Han, Boba Fett [death], Jabba [death]

*Endor [including] Chewie, Leia, R2-D2, C-3PO, Han

*Duel [third] [including] Emperor [death], Vader [death], Luke, Lando

=== Jurassic Park ===

Jurassic Park

==== [Entering and leaving of characters] ====
[all dinosaurs are represented by red, all men by black lines]
[for dinosaurs locked up, there is a donut-sign.]

'''[Characters entering the chart on the left, from top to bottom]'''

*T-Rex
*Raptors [splitting into Raptor 1, Raptor 2 and Raptor 3 later in the chart]
*Malcolm
*Grant
*Sattler
*Gennaro
*Hammond
*Muldoon
*Arnold
*Nedry

'''[Characters leaving the chart on the right side]'''

*T-Rex
*Kids [start short after the left border of the chart]
*Grant
*Sattler
*Malcolm
*Hammond

===== [Characters starting or leaving not in events/battles and not on the left/right side of the chart] =====

*Dilophosaurus [emerging by a dotted line, vanishing by a dotted line]

==== [List of events as displayed in the chart] ====

*Attack on cars [including] T-Rex, Malcolm [serious injury marked by a sign looking like a hole], Gennaro [death], Grant, Kids

*Must go faster [including] T-Rex, Malcolm, Sattler, Muldoon

*Nedry eaten [including] Dilophosaurus, Nedry [death]

*Gallimimus [including] Grant, Kids, T-Rex

*Shed [including] Raptor 3, Arnold [death]

*Clever girl [including] Raptor 1, Muldoon [death], Raptor 2

*Locked up escapes [including] Raptor 3, Sattler [This area is only grey in the point of "locked up", but a little further on the dotted line, the word "escapes" shows that the raptor 3 is free again. All over the entire comic, this is the only time that a description of "what happens" is given. All other labels are only titles, characters and locations and the note "Special edition" at Jabba / Star Wars, which is also a kind of meta-information.]

*Kitchen locked up [including] Raptor 1, Kids, Raptor 2 [marked as locked up with the donut-sign]

*Visitor Center [including] T-Rex, Raptor 1 [death], Kids, Grant, Sattler, Raptor 3 [death]

=== 12 angry men ===

12 angry men

==== [Entering and leaving of characters] ====

[All lines go parallel, start and end at the borders of the chart. There are no areas of battle/event.]

Juror 1 --------- Juror 1 ----------- Juror 1 ------------ Juror 1

Juror 2 --------- Juror 2 ----------- Juror 2 ------------ Juror 2

Juror 3 --------- Juror 3 ----------- Juror 3 ------------ Juror 3

Juror 4 --------- Juror 4 ----------- Juror 4 ------------ Juror 4

Juror 5 --------- Juror 5 ----------- Juror 5 ------------ Juror 5

Juror 6 --------- Juror 6 ----------- Juror 6 ------------ Juror 6

Juror 7 --------- Juror 7 ----------- Juror 7 ------------ Juror 7

Juror 8 --------- Juror 8 ----------- Juror 8 ------------ Juror 8

Juror 9 --------- Juror 9 ----------- Juror 9 ------------ Juror 9

Juror 10 --------- Juror 10 ----------- Juror 10 ------------ Juror 10

Juror 11 --------- Juror 11 ----------- Juror 11 ------------ Juror 11

Juror 12 --------- Juror 12 ----------- Juror 12 ------------ Juror 12

=== Primer ===

[Three characters enter the chart on the left side, all represented by black lines]
*Abe
*Aaron
*Granger
[The lines come to a giant scribble and end up with dotted lines and question marks in the right area. One cannot see which line leads to which end.]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Timelines]]
[[Category:LOTR]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:Jurassic Park]]
[[Category:Velociraptors]]
[[Category:Time travel]]
[[Category:Fiction]]