explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2184: Unpopular Opinions

2019-08-03T12:08:15Z

162.158.126.76: /* Explanation */ Moved the parenthetical to a more reasonable spot

{{comic
| number = 2184
| date = August 2, 2019
| title = Unpopular Opinions
| image = unpopular_opinions.png
| titletext = I wasn't a big fan of 3 or Salvation, so I'm trying to resist getting my hopes up too much for Dark Fate, but it's hard. I'm just a sucker for humans and robots traveling through time to try to drive trucks into each other, apparently.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a TOMATO WITH NO BAD SPOTS, '''REALLY'''. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Everybody has their own preferences as to what movies they like and dislike, and when your like or dislike of a movie seems to be different than the majority of people, you could call your preference the "unpopular opinion" because your opinion is the less prevalent one. This often takes the form of "I hate this movie and I don't understand why everybody else seems to like it", but this comic is talking about the opposite form, which it categorizes as less common, namely "I like this movie and don't understand why everybody else seems to hate it." The comic points out that it's relatively common to hate movies others appear to like, but the converse, in which you like a movie others seem to hate, is much harder to find. Hating a movie the majority like is seen as a badge of honor, as if you are a rebel and an individual. But if you like a movie the majority dislikes, you feel like you might be viewed as weird or a freak, or like you are missing something that everybody else sees but is for some reason eluding you.

To illustrate how hard it is to like a movie everyone else seems to dislike, the comic presents a challenge whereby you 1) identify a movie you definitely like, which 2) came out during your adult life (so it isn't tainted by childhood {{w|nostalgia}}), and which 3) the majority of other people don't like, as measured informally by having a popularity rating below 50% on the {{w|Rotten Tomatoes}} website. Supposedly you will find it hard to find a movie that meets all three criteria. The rules prohibit a movie that the viewer finds {{tvtropes|SoBadItsGood|"So Bad, It's Good"}} - the enjoyment of the movie must be genuine, for its positive qualities, rather than ironic enjoyment of its negative qualities.

The image in this comic gives an example of this effect, namely the movie ''{{w|Terminator Genisys}}'', the fifth in the {{w|Terminator (franchise)|''Terminator''}} series. This series, about time-travelling killer robots, included the highly rated ''Terminator 2''(93% on Rotten Tomatoes), while ''Terminator Genisys'' is only 26%.

The title text refers to three movies in the ''{{w|Terminator (franchise)|Terminator}}'' franchise, ''{{w|Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines}}'' (2003), ''{{w|Terminator Salvation}}'' (2009), and ''{{w|Terminator: Dark Fate}}'' (due out later in 2019). The ''Terminator'' movie series has featured both time travel and trucks driving or attempting to drive into people, and Randall apparently finds himself drawn to such movies. He hopes that ''Dark Fate'' will be a good movie, but has low expectations, considering the [https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/terminator less than stellar ratings] of the last 3 movies (69%, 33%, and 26%).

A [https://www.rottentomatoes.com/browse/dvd-streaming-all?minTomato=0&maxTomato=49&services=amazon;hbo_go;itunes;netflix_iw;vudu;amazon_prime;fandango_now&genres=1;2;4;5;6;8;9;10;11;13;18;14&sortBy=release|Rotten Tomatoes search ordered by release date limited to qualifying movies] can help individuals verify the difficulty of finding such movies for themselves.

==Transcript==

[Caption above the illustration:]

Unpopular ''positive'' opinion challenge:

Name a movie that...

(1) you genuinely like (not "so bad it's good")

(2) came out in your adult life post-2000, and

(3) is rated below 50% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[Ponytail, Cueball, and Megan all holding cell phones.]

:Ponytail: Wow, this is harder than I thought.
:Cueball: ...Terminator Genisys?
:Megan: Seriously?!
:Cueball: ''I like time travel, okay??''

[Caption below the panel:]

When people talk about their "unpopular opinions" about movies, they usually mean hating something everyone likes, but liking something everyone hates is much harder.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]

Talk:2179: NWS Warnings

2019-07-23T01:57:00Z

162.158.126.76: /* Transcript */ Discussed.

== Transcript ==

I tried to start one, but it's going to be hard to do the list of warnings right.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.190|108.162.215.190]] 00:33, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Well I've gone ahead and added all the warnings that I could. The only way to know the ones that are just "Advisory", "Watch", or "Warning" on the left hand side is if we talk to Randall himself. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.113|172.68.46.113]] 00:50, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

All NWS statements are color coded and the few that I know off the top of my head (Severe T-Storm, Hurricane) seem to match with Randall's coloring. Idk who filled out the transcript of warnings and if they already did this, but if everything thing else we know marches, we could use that to determine the remaining one.

Also on a separate note, Gale Warning is listed twice. Once in the top left in full and again along the right side where it's cut off as "Gale War". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 01:57, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

== Gale War ==
Ok, so it's possibly Gale Warning; but a war between the North Wind and Dorothy in Oz would be something worth warning about surely? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 01:11, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2004: Sun and Earth

2018-06-09T17:17:35Z

162.158.126.76:

There seems to be a glitch with the bar at the top (the one with the previous comic button and so on), it displays in a messed up way. Is this just something with my browser, or have other people been seeing this too? [[User:VannaWho|VannaWho]] ([[User talk:VannaWho|talk]])
:I'm using K-Meleon76 in Win7x64 (in a non-Admin account), it looks good to me. It does help to sign with 4 tildes, it does this for you: [[Special:Contributions/172.68.2.106|172.68.2.106]] 11:31, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks IP, by using the 4 tildes OR the sign button at the top also a timestamp will be shown.
::VannaWho: What is messed up? What happens? And what browser do you use? I also can't see any problems. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:19, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

The current explanation suggests that solar flares and volcanic eruptions are always quite benign. My interpretation of this comic, when I read it, was that volcanic eruptions can indeed be very deadly and potentially kill most humans (supervolcano, mini ice age... etc). But they are indeed rare enough that all humans currently alive and many generations to come are pretty safe from that risk.
Not sure if a solar eruption could actually threaten humanity, beyond damaging our satellites. {{unsigned ip|141.101.88.88}}
:A huge {{w|Coronal mass ejection}}, like the {{w|Solar storm of 1859}} that {{w|down Coronal_mass_ejection#First_traces|took down parts of the recently created US telegraph network}}, if occurring today would cause widespread disruptions and damage to a modern and technology-dependent society. It could simply melt down the transformers that distribute all electricity on Earth, potentially leaving us without electricity... Like no one has electricity. This would not be something we could fix, since the transformers are melted down. So yes mass starvation could occur when all refrigerators stop working. So potentially as lethal as a super volcano on the short term... Of course we can do absolutely nothing about this. Just like with super volcanoes. Only thing we are sure of is that both events will happen again sometime. Have a nice day ;-) [http://www.lloyds.com/~/media/lloyds/reports/emerging%20risk%20reports/solar%20storm%20risk%20to%20the%20north%20american%20electric%20grid.pdf] --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:10, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
::The problems with the burgeoning North American telegraph network were because the wires covered such a great distances. In forthcoming geomagnetic events it will be similar processes causing problems. I'm curious though, we have lightning arresters on transmission lines for literally breaking the circuit when the voltage is too high, is there nothing similar that would prevent damage from a solar storm? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.33|162.158.158.33]] 14:33, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
:::Important to point out that only '''''connected''''' components are damaged in such an event (likewise with EMPs); '''Spare parts sitting insulated in boxes are unaffected.''' Also, yes, there are a lot more safeties in place now. Nothing short of our practical extinction will leave ''all'' technology inoperable, much less irreparable. It is urban legend that an EMP or solar flare of anything less than "burn everything within 100ft of the surface" would do more than temporary damage, & if that happened we'd have much bigger concerns, like our own biological nervous systems failing, & most of the biosphere dying immediately. Things far underground, airgapped from any long conductors near the surface would be fine. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

After the major blackout of the Eastern US Coast, the connections between electrical stations were redesigned so that overloads would not cascade. A similar change was made to long distance land telephone centers when an incorrect update brought down telephone service. [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 15:13, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

I feel like the fact that without Earth's own magnetic field, which is generated by processes related to Earth being massive convecting system, protecting us from solar flares, the damage from them would be much worse, should be noted. Wait. Once again: I feel that following fact should be noted: The damage from solar flares would be much worse if we wouldn't be protected by Earth's own magnetic field, which is generated by processes related to Earth being massive convecting system. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 05:04, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

== New Misc Points (3 of them) ==

1) We should not, as the current explanation does, say that the particles gain energy. The Law of Conservation of Energy strictly demands that we say, instead, that they convert gravitational potential energy into kinetic energy, but only as much as the resulting pressure, resisting gravitational collapse, allows.

2) I know that the Sun, as a star, is powered by gravitational collapse. (Massy bodies, really? Why not "Huge, and therefore heavy, cloud of gas"?) I have never heard of the Earth's core being powered by gravitational collapse, obvious on hindsight as it may appear. It would also imply that Earth's radius is decreasing (measurable/measured?). Some citation to geophysical articles saying the same would be very much appreciated.

3) I thought that a different enjoyment of the jokes in this comic, should be mentioned. It looks very much, in the comic, like the Sun and the Earth are heating elements sandwiching humans and the Earth's atmosphere within. Global warming aside, this is funny because it feels like we are in an oven of sorts, though we actually are not being cooked. For food, for one non-reason.

The second and third paragraphs as written are completely wrong.
It take much more than a energy gradient to result in convection - both gravity and different density regions in the medium must be present - generally convective system are in media that become less dense at higher temperatures, and are heated in the region of lower gravitational potential. The media expands as it heats becoming less dense then rises against gravity as cooler higher density media flows to replace it. Since the two flows can not occur simultaneously in the same location, generally the flow self organizes into cells or adjacent regions of counter flow.
Neither the sun which is a main sequence star in its stable Hydrogen burning phase nor the Earth are appreciably heated by gravitational collapse. For the sun gravity does provide the pressures needed for, and contains, the resulting fusion processes that do provide the energy released by the sun. The Earth core is heated by the decay of radioactive elements and the energy released is in very near equilibrium with the energy lost to the surface and ultimately radiated away along with the energy received from external sources (overwhelmingly from the sun). This has resulted in a stable internal temperature profile and surprisingly stable surface temperatures with in a very few degrees (<15C) for billions of years.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 17:17, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:2004: Sun and Earth

2018-06-09T17:16:13Z

162.158.126.76:

Talk:Main Page

2018-03-20T16:55:23Z

162.158.126.76: /* "It's because you're dumb" */

{{notice|This page is for discussion of the [[Main Page]] itself. Other issues probably belong at the [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]].}}

As a new user, I think the first page is very important. So I thought why not begin a discussion here what to have on the first page every user visits.--[[User:Relic|Relic]] ([[User talk:Relic|talk]]) 05:59, 1 August 2012 (EDT) Re-signed here - b/c I broke the comment in two when I added the "List of comics" header. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 23:01, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

==List of comics==
I was thinking of having a quick link to the list of comics that is explained. Right know, it took me a while to even see any of them. Eventually I found the "List All Pages" (found it in Special pages) where I could find the comics that have been explained. What do you think?
:A category tag will do that for you automatically. Having a list of comics indexed by its number would be a little different.--[[User:Relic|Relic]] ([[User talk:Relic|talk]]) 05:59, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::Sounds like a great list - I ''think'' it'd have to be manually maintained until/unless we get someone who knows how to make a bot update it. Categories will be useful, but they only work if someone added the category to the page in the first place. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 07:21, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::A (somewhat) related question - should [[:Category:Comics]] be sorted alphabetically or by comic number? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 07:43, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::::I think [[:Category:Comics]] should be sorted by comic number. If you are looking for a specific comic, you will use the search field. Is there a way to make that happen? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 08:11, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::They are two different functions. For the former, instead of adding <nowiki>[[Category:Comics]]</nowiki>, add, say, <nowiki>[[Category:Comics|1]]</nowiki>. For the second, we can create redirects. Normally, I'd say just make sure the search term was in the article text, but since numbers are going to be use for other purposes than just comic titles, it may be better to create [[1]] and [[Comic 1]] as redirects to the relevant articles right off the bat. --08:24, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::We could also have a comic-list template on the Main Page, I suppose, or perhaps two - one for number and one for name? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 08:54, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::::Here's what I was thinking of for that: {{tl|Comics navbox}} Thoughts? ''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]
:(outdent) It's ugly, but a sortable wikitable [[User:SurturZ/sandbox|(click here for example)]] could be used as a checklist to see what has been uploaded and what hasn't. What's the project namespace here, anyway (analogue of "WP:")? --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 03:04, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:OK, I've found a way to get all the titles of the comics, so I was confident enough to create <big>[[Explain XKCD:Checklist]]</big> which can be used to fill in the gaps. --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 03:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::I'm liking the checklist! That should do quite nicely as a "tool for editors". (I'm linking to it at the Community Portal). We still need the "template for readers." Did you think {{tl|Comics navbox}} was on the right track or should we do something else for that? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 20:09, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::Better idea - I'm throwing it directly onto the Main Page. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 20:10, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

==Admin list==
You can find a system-accurate list of admins [{{canonicalurl:Special:ListUsers|group=sysop}} here], so that might good to share, along with the manual list. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 07:13, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:Added to page. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 08:10, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::That's exactly what I wanted, but couldn't find the auto page for it. I knew it was somewhere. I don't see any reason to keep the link to the manual page. Do you? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 08:11, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Not unless you want it. I'll remove it. Should I add the similar link for 'crats or is that unnecessary at this point? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 08:25, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::::To be honest, I have no idea what the Burecrats role does. Might be unnecessary now but helpful in the future? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 11:16, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::Bureaucrats can turn other users into administrators (or indeed, other bureaucrats). That privilege isn't available to ordinary administrators. I'd keep it to yourself for the time being. :-) --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 17:39, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::You can actually see a technical list of which rights each group confers at [[Special:ListGroupRights]]. As the wiki grows, you might want to spin off a few, such as the ability to grant rollbacker and autopatrolled, to admins as some other wikis have. But for the time being, at least, there's really no reason for the wiki to have more than one 'crat. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 17:07, 2 August 2012 (EDT)

== Community portal ==

I've created the [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]] as a tools/help page. If that's not what you want, feel free to change/move/whatever it, but I thought it'd be nice to save this page for discussion of the Main Page and discuss the wiki as a whole/ask for help there. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 08:36, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

== Direct link to latest comic ==

There should be a direct link to the latest comic at the top of the Main page. A nice thing about going to explainxkcd.com was that the latest comic is right there at the top. For those changing their default link to the wiki, there should be an easy "Latest Comic" link that quickly takes them there. I'm sure some folks actually skip xkcd.com and come directly here instead to read the latest offering from Randall. They shouldn't have to search for it.
[[User:Christopher Foxx|- CFoxx]] ([[User talk:Christopher Foxx|talk]]) 11:59, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

: Maybe the page [[latest]] should redirect to the most recent comic? Could that be taken care of by some sort of script/template so it doesn't have to be manually updated? Should each explination page also have "next", "previous", "random", "first" and "latest" links, possibly also generated automatically via scripts/templates? Additionally, shouldn't the number page be the canonical one? It seems like [[Internal monologue]] should redirect to [[1089]] rather than the other way around - certainly it would make a bunch of scripting types of things a lot easier. [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 13:02, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::If you wanted, we could even use wiki-magic to show the title of the page as the Comic name, but the URL as the number - in order to parallel the actual XKCD website. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 17:09, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Shouldn't there be a way to programmatically find the comic with the highest number that has a page with content? That would work as long as no one puts future comic pages up. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 20:25, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:::It's all sounding like folks are over-complicating something quite easy. All I'm suggesting is a prominent link to http://www.xkcd.com/. No need, I think, to list which number the latest is, or include the next/last/random buttons, etc. [[User:Christopher Foxx|- CFoxx]] ([[User talk:Christopher Foxx|talk]]) 11:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::Oh. We've got that, now, in the sidebar - labeled as "XKCD." I do think that having an internal link to the latest (explained) comic would be a great thing, though. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]'' [[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]] 16:36, 4 August 2012 (EDT)

You can transclude the latest comic on the main page like this: <nowiki>{{:pagename}} e.g. {{:Internal_monologue}} </nowiki>--[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 00:25, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
: I've started with just a manual link to the latest comic. Ideally it will be automatic, but a manual link will work for now as I've had quite a few people ask for it. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 21:09, 1 August 2012 (EDT)

Transclusion of the latest comic is great. Someone with the right permissions should add (for instance on the top-right corner of the grey transclusion area) a link to edit the corresponding wiki page, so that people seeing something they could add would feel invited to do so (wiki style). In my opinion this would be a good way to improve the quality of the user-generated explanations.
Also, all the "XKCD"s in the "New here?" section should be converted to the lowercase "xkcd"...
[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 14:00, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:Good points. I've done both. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 15:48, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Call me dumb, but... You've got a link called "prev" that goes to the explaination for the previous comic. Then a link called "comic #42" but that goes to xkcd. And then a smaller, less prominent link called "go to this comic" that doesn't go to the comic but to its explaination. Anyone else think that's a little back-to-front? [[User:Zootle|Zootle]] ([[User talk:Zootle|talk]]) 17:18, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
:OK, you're dumb :-). The standard template for an explanation page includes the header with "Prev", "Comic # (date)", and "Next" links. If we don't have explanation pages for the previous or next comic, we don't show the respective link. I hadn't noticed that the "Comic # (date)" bit was a link to the xkcd site before, but in context it makes sense to me. Including a link to the Explain page for the comic who's explain page you are already looking at doesn't make sense.
:The explanation page for the latest comic is "transcluded" in the main page pretty much as-is, so we get the header, the comic, the explanation, etc. We don't get the discussion, which is visible at the bottom of the Explain page. Because there is never an explanation for a comic that hasn't been released yet, there is never a "Next" link on the main page's transcluded header. So you get "Prev" and "Comic" links. The "Go to this comic" link is added by the main page above the transcluded explain page.
:I can see how the "Go to this comic" link might be poorly worded especially as it's placement seems to be within the explanation it's linking to. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 18:16, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
::Rather than "Go to this comic" maybe it could be "Go to full explanation" ? Something else? [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 13:38, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
::There was [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Admin_requests#.22Edit_this_explanation.22_link_on_main_page a discussion at one point] about a wittier/more descriptive link - but no one came up with anything. I do like "Go to Full Explanation" better, for what it's worth. --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 15:31, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
:::My problem with that suggestion is that it implies that the main page explanation is not full. As of right now, the full explanation is transcluded on the main page. There's nothing more to see by clicking that link (explanation wise) Perhaps "Go to full explanation page" but that doesn't quite sound right to me... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:42, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
::::How about "Go to this Comic Explanation Page"? One nice thing about the specific page rather than the [[Main_Page]] transcoding is that it nicely includes the discussion as well. I have a bookmark to the [[Main_Page]] that I look at every day, but I want to easily read the discussions, not only the explanation. Humm, maybe we could have a page [[most recent comic]] that automagically redirects to the most recent comic? [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 12:42, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:::::I tried to get [[most recent comic]] to redirect to LATESTCOMIC, but can't get the syntax working - it is possible? [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 13:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
::::::Apparently it isn't. I would have tried <code><nowiki>#REDIRECT [[{{LATESTCOMIC}}]]</nowiki></code> like you did, but since that doesn't work, I'll delete the page for now. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 16:38, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

== Discussion of latest comic ==
Perhaps include the discussions of the latest comic here? I almost missed there was a discussion field a few times because I would only read about the latest comic on the main page. [[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 14:54, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

This comics's explanation is complete bollocks, I think. Of course it is NOT a "fact that such a room exists". This comics parodies trope often used in cop movies - an elderly cop goes to work for the last time before his retirement, packs things, plans fishing the next day ... only to be called to one more case (possibly with a new, young and brash partner). And despites his efforts not to screw anything and stay clear of danger, he is either mortally wounded or screws big time and is degraded. So much clichè, that if someone says "It's my last day or service", you might be sure one of the two options above happens. See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retirony [[User:edheldil|Edheldil]] 10:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe this link maybe relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_graphics {{unsigned|Rhudi}}

I went ahead and filled out the bracket from today's (see edit date) comic: http://m.imgur.com/gallery/WyPkHx2 {{unsigned|Glaucon81}}

*rise

Btw, why wouldn't I just enter "ipconfig free" if I didn't want my IP address showing? {{unsigned ip|172.68.65.48}}

== The comic explanation count is wrong ==

The adjustment is currently 3, but there are now 6 subcategories and one list making the current correct adjustment 7.
If the wiki was upgraded to version 1.20, a form exists to automatically exclude subcategories.
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 09:56, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

:Looks like another week of the wiki going down then.
:But seriously, I've been noticing this too. Didn't know what was causing it, but it's going to have to be fixed sometime.[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 10:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

::The text reads <pre><nowiki>We already have [[:Category:Comics|'''{{#expr:{{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-3}}''' comic explanations]]!</nowiki></pre> The -3 is to account for the subcategories and non-explanation pages in the category. There apparently used to be three such pages, and now there are seven. I would fix this myself, but the page is protected. If the wiki where upgraded to version 1.20, the categories could be explicitly excluded, but the [[List of all comics]] would still be in the category. (Note that the -3 actually appears twice.) --[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 05:03, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

:::Mediawiki 1.20 fixes this issue, although it'd be nice if this could be fixed in the meantime via the hack reccommended by divad. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 06:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

:Looks like Waldir updated the "Comic Correction Count" to "10" (as of 20 November 2012):
<nowiki> We already have [[:Category:Comics|'''{{#expr:{{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-10}}''' comic explanations]]!</big>
Note: the -10 in the calculation above is to discount subcategories (there are 7 of them as of 20 November 2012),
non-comic pages (2 as of same date: [[List of all comics]] and [[Exoplanet]])
and the comic 404, which was deliberately not posted. Thus 7 + 2 + 1 = 10
(But there are still {{#expr:{{LATESTCOMIC}}-({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-10)}} to go. Come and [[List of all comics|add yours]]!)</nowiki>
:Could we possibly make this more dynamic by creating a "IGNORE_IN_COUNT" category or something? and then using something like: <nowiki>{#expr:{{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-{{PAGESINCAT:IGNORE_IN_COUNT}}}</nowiki>? Then any additional entries to the "Comics" category (that are 'special' entries) could just have the special category added and no main page editing would be necessary? --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 07:50, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

==Make Jeff stop apologizing==
The apology for server downtime has been around for a while now. Can we take it down? [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 04:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

== Spambots ==

I think someone should install [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbuseFilter AbuseFilter]. --[[User:Kronf|Kronf]] ([[User talk:Kronf|talk]]) 10:09, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

== Purge ==

We should regularly purge the server's cache for the main page using http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=purge to keep the explanation up to date. --[[User:Kronf|Kronf]] ([[User talk:Kronf|talk]]) 02:28, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

== Updating the Rules ==

I've been having a lovely discussion with someone who apparently thought the "edit anything you want" rule applied to the Talk pages. As we don't have any codified rules for ''here'' and can only point to "well the canonical way this is done on Wikipedia is..." I think that there are a few things we need to put into the list of Rules on the front page, and then have a link to a more in-depth talk about why the rules exist and what-not.

Specifically, I'm talking about writing "Feel free to edit any page on the wiki to be better. But, treat talk pages like you would blog comments: comments by other people ''cannot be changed by you'', you can only respond to them." as a new rule to be plastered on the front page, as there seems to be an increasing number social neophytes that seem to think that editing words that are attributed as being said by another person is perfectly legitimate and non-controversial.

Shall we discuss? [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 01:25, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

:We could add the etiquette rules as an addendum to the signature reminder at the top of the page. Just an extra note below the alert box asking people to not edit other people's comments. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 06:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

::It really should be right down with the "edited mercilessly" description, because this is an exception to that statement. Shouldn't have two sets of contradictory instructions in different places. When I made my improper edit, I had a semi-conscious moment of doubt about whether changing the other guy's comment was ok, even though this is a wiki (and even though it wasn't really clear to me that this "discussion" box held something totally separate from the page content), but that statement at the bottom put all such doubts to rest. I read it multiple times to be sure. But I did not notice that line at the top about the four tildes until ''much'' later. It's somewhat lost, visually, in the header line, when you're not looking directly at it.[[Special:Contributions/50.0.38.245|50.0.38.245]] 18:32, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

:::There's discussion to replace that message with a more noticeable alert box. The message at the bottom of the page appears for all pages, including talk pages, so a talk-page specific message there would not entirely fit. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 00:18, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

::::If that text at the bottom is in fact alterable, it should be written to take every case into account. It's an extremely poor user interface that has instructions appearing on a page stating rules that are the exact opposite of reality. And note that the altert box on the top looks a lot like a banner add, when you don't focus on it and read it. People will tend to habitually filter out anything written there from their perception. Also, it can easily be scrolled off the top of the screen when the discussion starts to get long, and they have a preview displayed.
::::So I think after the "...then do not submit it here.", it should add, "'''Exception''': others' comments in Discussion pages are not to be altered. See full rules at <<link to appropriate wikipedia page>>."[[Special:Contributions/50.0.38.245|50.0.38.245]] 15:46, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

== Update after changes ==

The front page explanation hasn't been updated at all day to match changes in the explanation on the comic's page. This is a major problem i think, as it is the front page explanation people visitors will most often read. --[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 20:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
: It might be a caching issue. Appending <code>&action=purge</code> to the URL will probably fix it. Can you confirm it looks good to you now? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 00:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
::Yep, now it updates instantly! Well done, whatever you did! :) --[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 16:24, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

:::I've also added a link underneath the comic box that has the action embedded, so no one has to do any manual URL hacking. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

::::Just wanted to check in on this - are there issues with automated systems or spammers following this link? I know it can affect performance - caching is important on a busy site! --[[User:Overand|Overand]] ([[User talk:Overand|talk]]) 22:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

== Suggestion: Change "Go to this comic" to "Go to this entry" ==

Just a small suggestion. For the Main Page, I suggest changing "Go to this comic" to say "Go to this ''entry''" instead to remove any confusion for new and regular viewers. It certainly took me a while to figure how to go to each featured comic's entry from the main page.

[[Special:Contributions/69.43.114.2|69.43.114.2]] 17:04, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

:How about if it reads "Go to this comic explanation"? Would that be less confusing? I only quibble because the explanations aren't really entries, in wiki parlance each page is usually called an article, but that doesn't seem to fit here as we really have explanation pages. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:41, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

::Agreed. [[User:Ctxppc|Randy Marsh]] ([[User talk:Ctxppc|talk]]) 22:55, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

== Explain the Unreleased Comic? ==
:I wonder if [[http://i56.tinypic.com/a9ton8.png this comic]] is permitted to be explained, despite the double issue of Randall pulling the comic plus me finding the pulled comic through "xkcd overrated"... [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:21, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

== Comic 1156 ==

I don't have an account to edit the page directly, so here's an edit someone should make:
It looks like whoever wrote the existing page simply googled 'conditioning' and found the first link that came up.
Please modify the link to point to 'Classical conditioning', not 'Operant conditioning'.
Thanks. {{unsigned ip|124.191.56.91|05:26, 7 January 2013‎ (UTC)}}

:Hi. This is the talk page for the main page of the wiki. This page only has a "view" of the actual comic explanation. The actual explanation page is at [[1156: Conditioning]], and I assure you, edit permissions have not been restricted for that page. Someone has already changed the page to link to Classical conditioning, but the original editor came back stating that Operant was correct. If you would like to start a discussion about this [[Talk:1156: Conditioning|on the talk page for this explanation]] that would be much more conducive to getting this matter settled. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 05:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

== Comic Links ==

Some of the links seem to be confusing, as they're titled in a weird way. The link/button 'go to this comic', I'd expect would go to the actual comic on XKCD's page. Yet it goes to the comic's wiki page. And clicking on the comic # and date directs you to the XKCD page, yet I really feel that link should go to the wiki page, as it's right at the top center there, and has the date and everything, sort of indicating that it's a wiki page, yet it's not. And the prev and next buttons next to it don't go to the xkcd page, they go to the wiki pages. Which is really messed up, I think. Because of my confusion, every single time I visit here, I clicked on the wrong link, though now I've gotten used to it. I suggest rewording the links as 'XKCD Comic # and date' and 'go to this comic's wiki page'. And possibly switching the links' positions so that the wiki links could be in that navigation bar and the XKCD links could be off to the side. After all, we are a wiki, so putting our wiki links to the comic off to the side and the direct xkcd link in the center seems odd. Anyway, has anyone had the same thoughts and/or agree with me on this?--[[Special:Contributions/69.119.250.251|69.119.250.251]] 18:19, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

== Unexplained comics ==

The template that starts each explanation page should be edited to have the next and previous buttons automatically skip over pages that don't exist, rather than simply not being there if comic n+1 or n-1 doesn't exist. Preferably it would append a notice to the next page (like the redirect notices commonly found on mediawiki) telling you how many comics have been skipped. I'm not sure how feasible this would be to script, however. [[Special:Contributions/130.160.145.185|130.160.145.185]] 23:45, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

== Percentage of remaining comics calculation is off... ==

Okay, I hate to be "that pedantic math guy", but... Today the main page reads "We have collaboratively explained 936 xkcd comics, and only 252 (27%) remain." While I agree that 252/936 is roughly 27%, I believe we should really be calculating the percentage as "the number left to explain" divided by "the total number of comics that exist", not divided by "the number we have finished". That is (today), 252/1188=21%. Think about it. If we had completed 594 comics today, with 594 remaining, what should the percentage be? 594/594=100%? That's not right... 594/1188=50%? That's what we really want to say.

The page is protected, which makes sense. So I'll make my suggestion here.

Change this:

<pre>
and only {{#expr:{{LATESTCOMIC}}-({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-9)}}
({{#expr: ({{LATESTCOMIC}}-({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-9)) / ({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-9) * 100 round 0}}%)
remain.
</pre>
To this:
<pre>
and only {{#expr:{{LATESTCOMIC}}-({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-9)}}
({{#expr: ({{LATESTCOMIC}}-({{PAGESINCAT:Comics}}-9)) / {{#expr:{{LATESTCOMIC}}}} * 100 round 0}}%)
remain.
</pre>
[[User:Imperpay|Imperpay]] ([[User talk:Imperpay|talk]]) 15:32, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

:Done and done. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|purple|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:37, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

:Thanks for the heads-up! However, notice that the #expr: around LATESTCOMIC was unnecessary. I've removed it. [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 11:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

::Waldir, you have exposed me as a charlatan and a fool! (I just copied, pasted, and tinkered until I made something that worked. I don't actually understand it. No formal training, you see. It's what we used to call "hacking" back in the dawn of the digital era, before the word took on connotations of vandalism, trespassing, and fraud. Have you kids come up with another word for it?) [[User:Imperpay|Imperpay]] ([[User talk:Imperpay|talk]]) 13:59, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

::: Joke's on me then, 'cause you sure fooled me – I readily assumed you knew your way around those parser functions. Nice job hacking the code, it was a nearly perfect crime ;) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 03:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I've heard the cool kids call that the "Maker Mentality", usually with a reference to [http://makezine.com/ Make magazine] and [http://makerfaire.com/ Maker Faire]. But I think there's also a movement to resurrect the original meaning of hacker. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 04:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

==sidebar ads?==
''Moved to [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Proposals]] –– [[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 08:06, 4 May 2013 (UTC)''

== Expression error on Main Page ==

Please use <code><nowiki>{{PAGESINCAT:...|R}}</nowiki></code> instead of <code><nowiki>{{PAGESINCAT:...}}</nowiki></code> to correct these errors :) --[[Special:Contributions/110.168.83.62|110.168.83.62]] 10:55, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
:Dun diddly done. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 11:21, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

== Compile a list of non-technical comics to non-technical readers? ==

I'm a long-time reader and fan of >< |< C |}, but my normal approach is useless when I introduce this provocative comic series to my less technical friends. They stay at the apparent level of many comics. They don't bother reading the explanations, but they would say, "it's hard to make sense". Imagine an average non-technical (and non-arts) major guy/girl, can we compile a list of state-of-the-art but less-technical, easy-to-comprehend but "ah ha!!" strips that is suitable for them? --[[User:FrenzY|W shll nvr flly xpln xkcd!]] ([[User talk:FrenzY|talk]]) 12:39, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
:Oh my god that signature.
:Gaah, derailment. Uh, pretty much anything that isn't tagged with the physics or math categories are easy enough to understand for the average English speaker, so just check the categories at the bottom of the page for that. Also, avoid comics with the incomplete tag, and that oughta be fine. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:41, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

== Quit building? ==
''This post was moved to [[Talk:1214: Geoguessr]].''

:Hello, this is the talk page for the content of the front page of the wiki, not for discussion of the most recent comic, that happens [[Talk:1214: Geoguessr|here]]. I've moved your post over there for you. Cheers, and welcome to explain xkcd! [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 05:09, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

== List of incomplete comics ==
We need a link to the "Incomplete articles" at the main page below the "Missing link". Most pages are created but many are incomplete.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:06, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

== Header message ==

'''Please don't take this seriously unless you actually think it's a good idea:'''

I think the header should be changed from "explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb." to "explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb... or still have some hope that comic [[1190]] will end." or something similar. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 14:53, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

::Nope! This page is trying to explain more than 1222 comics, not only [[1190: Time]]. The header just states the truth.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd vote for a change. People have started coming over to discuss the comic even when they've 'gotten' it. That, and the fact that this is one step ahead of Googling the references yourself. So.. maybe, "it's because you're dumb..and lazy."[[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 02:26, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
:I honestly don't think it either. This is the most comprehensive comic-by-comic Wiki. People don't come here because they're dumb ''or'' lazy. That's like saying I'm dumb for reading a review of an episode after I've watched it - I'm interested in seeing what other people up with or caught that I didn't. It denigrates the idea of aggregating information, which is a very un-XKCD idea.

As a regular reader of explainxkcd (who was to lazy to cotribute anything until now), I'd like to support the proposed edit. (... and lazy) It really fits to the tone of our favourite waste of otherwise productive time (which is xkcd for myself). Best wishes from Heidelberg, Germany. --[[Special:Contributions/147.142.13.86|147.142.13.86]] 14:38, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

A friend that happens to be blind hates this site because of the "It's cause you're dumb" tagline. If he wants a transcript of the comic on xkcd, his option is to come here and have his screen reader program telling him that he is dumb every single time.

How about, "explain xkcd: because sometimes we all need a little help."? -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.65|173.245.54.65]] 02:07, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

:Oh, hadn't thought about that. There's been recurring complaints about this over the years, though the tagline's been around since before we were a wiki. I'll write something up and put this to a vote. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 09:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

== A point of confusion ==

Why is 'Apatosaurus' a category but 'Internet Argument' no longer a category? [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 13:53, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
:Cuz people hit the random button, see an Apatosaurus feature in three comics and figure it must be a recurring theme. Same as the internet argument thing. Will get round to a category purge after we've cleared out all the incomplete tags. I think there's one for ferrets hidden away somewhere in the dark recesses of our catalog of categories. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
::On the subject, can I suggest a "Barred from Conferences" category, or similar? That's definitely a recurring theme (for a long, long time), and thus should be justified enough. I'd be happy to add various qualifying articles as I scroll through again, if I can, but first I'll leave it up to someone else to solidify the actual name. (In case it turns out not to be just conferences, for example.) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 16:27, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

== Incomplete comics statement ==

I suggest the minor change: "We have an explanation for all x xkcd comics, and only y (y/x %) are '''marked as''' incomplete." –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 08:07, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

== 1262 is out ==

So what are you waiting for? [[Special:Contributions/75.60.27.102|75.60.27.102]] 06:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
:<nowiki>(diff | hist) . . N 1262: Unquote‎; 06:23, 9 September 2013 (UTC) . . (+322)‎ . . ‎Davidy22 (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (Created page with "{{comic | number = 1262 | date = September 9, 2013 | title = Unquote | image = unquote.png | titletext = I guess it's a saying from the Old Country. }} ==Expl...")</nowiki>
:Examine the time stamps. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

== Adverts ==

I am not going to disable my adblock, I hate ads. If you accept bitcoin I can make a donation though. [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 05:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:Our ads are always easy-to-load images as opposed to flash ads, they're always pointing to some valuable product of some form and we've looked at and approved all of them. They also occupy space that would otherwise have been empty, as our one ad is bound strictly to the sidebar. We used to have a paypal donation button, but it was pitifully tended to and a much less reliable source of income than ads. Ads are the only reliable business model for small sites like this one; unless our readers suddenly become willing to pay all our server costs for us, we can't feasibly afford a better hosting plan without ads. We legally aren't allowed to open a merch store, because that infringes on Randall's shop, and we haven't had a single generous benefactor yet. If you want to stop seeing our server error messages, loosening up adblock for us and contributing to our impressions count will help us massively. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't care about your server message, I wanted to make a donation. Sooo, you don't want any bitcoins? [[Special:Contributions/37.221.161.235|37.221.161.235]] 07:16, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
:This took a bit of digging. We're fine with bitcoin donations, it's just that at the rate donations came in, they were just not enough to pay for anything. [https://coinbase.com/checkouts/b19f921822ac962807a8f72d51509e59] '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:34, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Donation made! [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 23:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks! '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:27, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Am I the only one that feels it is "wrong" that the explainxkcd site has ads and the real xkcd doesn't have any? It feels like someone is profiting off of Randall's work. Does he officially endorse this website? Do any proceeds help go to support his ongoing publication of an awesome comic? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.19|173.245.54.19]] 16:01, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

:An admin will be able to give you more detail than me, but explainxkcd has a significant number of visitors (and thus hosting costs), and no way to generate income other than donations and ads. In contrast, Randall makes money from his comics by way of books and merchandise (and possibly public speaking), some of which will pay for his hosting. He could choose to have ads on his site to generate additional income, its his choice not to. I have no knowledge of the finances of explainxkcd, however I doubt there is much/any surplus ad revenue being pocketed by the owners/admin. As far as the site being officially endorsed, not as far as I'm aware, no.
:Also, for more discussion on adverts/income, see [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Sidebar_ads here].--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 16:21, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

== /wiki is returning a 403 ==

Hello, 
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/ is returning a 403 now. In my eyes you should redirect it to the main-page instead :-). --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 12:41, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
:We have a new, hopefully better, server. The problem is already reported to [[User_talk:Jeff#Forbidden]] --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:22, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

== Explain Explain XKCD / Explain^2 XKCD ==

This particular comic explanation requires explanation. Way too many potential cross references with each conjecture requiring its own explanation page. Dial it back a little. {{unsigned ip|108.162.245.11}}
:Uh, sorry, could you clarify that a little? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 07:23, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::He is talking about the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/ http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/] issue. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:32, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Well if it's that, that's an intentional permissions setting on a URL that no-one is feasibly going to type. Unless you can come up with a better use for that URL, with a reason? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:40, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
::::A symlink to "index.php" at the root folder would solve the problem.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 09:26, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:::::I cannot believe how many weeks that took to fix. Amazing. No one was going to type it, but everyone was going to get redirected to it from the home page! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.227|108.162.222.227]] 11:37, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

The problem is still not solved. [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/ http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/] gives still a 403 error because "index.php" is not included in the http server configuration as a default index page. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
:: I've fixed this. Sorry about the delay. Was super busy! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:02, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Thanks Jeff, it's working. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

== Webmaster: Obtrusive video ad on your site ==

In the ad section I saw a box sticking out and blocking out the explanation. This was therefore a very obtrusive botched video ad. Please remove this ad from your site. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.188|199.27.128.188]] 22:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

EDIT: It's now sticking out and preventing me from clicking on the "Save page" button. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.188|199.27.128.188]] 22:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
:We only accept GIFs for moving ads. Ads should also be contained within the sidebar as they're techonogically restricted to standard-sized PNGs and GIFs, so an extruding ad would be a CSS error on the site end/browser error. In addition, we run ads from lots of advertisers, and "this ad" is not specific enough to tell us which ad you want us to remove. Could you provide a screenshot/link/more information? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 22:54, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

== Adding an arcs list page ==

I think there should be a page listing all webcomics arcs so far (the red spiders, the race, etc.)[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.134|188.114.102.134]] 12:47, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

:This already exists, see [[:Category:Comic series]]. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:39, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

== This explanation may be incomplete or incorrect: link ==

This has been bothering me for a while now. Why does the link in the info box for the main page link to editing the main page? It needs to link to the editing of the page which the comic's explanation is on. When I would like to edit the latest XKCD explanation, I click that thinking I am going to edit the explanation, but instead I am led to editing the main page. [[User:Auraxangelic|Auraxangelic]] ([[User talk:Auraxangelic|talk]]) 15:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
:Ooooooh, nice catch. I've actually never noticed that before, and it's definitely not intentional. It happens because the text of the explanation page is folded into the main page before mediawiki parses links and syntax, and the "Edit this page" button links to the page that the link is on. I have an idea for how to fix it though, so I'll get on that. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 01:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

== #1454 - bad description ==

"Curly-hair states longingly..." She comes across as disappointed (or even heartbroken), not "longing", which suggests sounding somewhat positive and energetic, rather than deflated. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.88|141.101.99.88]] 22:29, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

==Cueball/Rob merge==

It seems to me from a general reading of the comics that Randall has always intended for the character we here call "Cueball" to have the name "Rob". Much as "Cutie" was renamed "Megan" when we learned her name, and now she is identified as "Megan" even in comics where her name is not explicitly mentioned, I think we should consider merging the "Cueball" and "Rob" articles. I know there's a lot of inertia here, but it seems to me that this is Randall's intention for the character's name. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:38, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
: Alternatively, we should un-merge [[Megan]] and [[Cutie]] for consistency. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 14:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
: I'm pretty sure this is an augmentation of the author's internal characters, including the one he has developed involuntarily as to the nature of his love. His memory of his love is not his love, yet it is what he has to love. Randall seems the type to delve into this, and thus I am in support of keeping the character names as they stand. /eof [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.185|173.245.56.185]] 05:43, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

== Kerbal Space Program ==

I'm a schizophrenic who's been playing Kerbal Space Program for about five days with no sleep, and I'm pretty sure this is a reference to [https://www.google.com/search?q=xkcd+kerbal+space+program&oq=xkcd+kerbal+space+program&aqs=chrome..69i57.10851j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 comic 1365] :D [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.185|173.245.56.185]] 05:39, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

== 1509 is missing ==

When will it be added? By bot, I presume.--[[User:17jiangz1|17jiangz1]] ([[User talk:17jiangz1|talk]]) 04:51, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

== Broken Date Box on comics ==

The "Comic #1511 (April 13, 2015)" textbox that appears on top of each comic breaks if you shrink the screen. I think the space after the comma needs to be replaced with a non breaking space.{{unsigned ip|108.162.238.144}}

:Is it fixed now? '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

::It looks like it. I had pointed it out once before and it was fixed. I guess somebody reverted that change or something... --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.202|173.245.56.202]] 13:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

== 1515? ==

Is it correct that we have 1515 comics, as of April 15, 2015? --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.122|173.245.48.122]] 05:20, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
:It's not, but some people insist on making comic pages for things that aren't comics. I'll fix that. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

== 972 is broken ==

Look, I'm not going to make an account here or anything, but I just wanted to point out that trying to access the page for comic #972 leads to a database error, and maybe someone should check on that. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.102|173.245.48.102]] 07:45, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually a lot of other pages lead to that same error as well... Even the 'Technical Diskussions' sub-page is broken. Seems to my, like some swap-spac needs cleaning up? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.230.83|108.162.230.83]] 10:32, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
:Yep. It's a symptom of another problem, but the errors should be cleared up now. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:31, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
::No dice. [[997]] is still broken. --[[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.119|198.41.235.119]] 00:27, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

:::Looks like they're working now. 21:01, 2016-11-27 {{unsigned ip|141.101.98.163}}

== #1567 ==

I think the current explanation is missing the connection, and the parody of, many "As Seen On TV" commercials selling kitchen products. Many of these commercials show people trying to use common kitchen equipment (pots, pans, can openers, etc) in a way that no normally functioning human would do it (for example, one has a lady draining the liquid from a pot of food into a sink in an extremely awkward manner — one that no normal person who has ever seen a kitchen would do — but then the lid flies one way, food goes another, there's a huge mess, etc; another commercial has someone trying to open a can of food using a can opener '''backwards''', with the woman looking extremely confused looking on how the can opener is supposed to be used or attached to the can [if you told someone act like they are a clueless monkey trying to use a can opener for the first time, that's basically what the commercial had the woman doing — no joke]). These commercials often begin with phrases such as "If you are like me" or "If you are like most home makers" or some other closely related "If you are like..." phrase (thus this comic is directly tieing itself to these commercials using this catch phrase). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.11|108.162.220.11]] 07:50, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
:: Other opening catch phrases for these commercials include the "Tired of [fill-in made-up frustration]" and the "Do you [fill-in made-up frustration]" kind. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.11|108.162.220.11]] 08:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

== "I used Google news BEFORE it was clickbait" ==

Go to a handful of older pages on this wiki, and it won't be long before you see this phrase in the comments - [[941: Depth Perception]], for instance has two of them. Does anyone know why this happens? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.116|108.162.221.116]] 10:59, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
:That's the signature of a person who used to post here. If you click through, it actually goes to a userpage. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:25, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

== URL ==

I notice that whenever you add "explain" to an xkcd url, it takes you here! neat! [[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.233|198.41.235.233]] 23:13, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
:Someone noticed! Finally! '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:45, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

== Should we really be using CC-BY-SA? ==

Don't get me wrong, CC-BY-SA is my favorite creative commons license. The problem is, are we really allowed? The reason I'm worried is that I'm not sure if what we are doing really counts as "fair use" with respect to XKCD. It would probably be better to do CC-NC-BY-SA, to respect XKCD, or at least put a note that CC-BY-SA only covers the wiki portion (since it's probably too late to do CC-BY-SA anyway).
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.37|173.245.54.37]] 23:38, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
:This is a tough one. Mediawiki sites generally use CC-BY-SA, even if the content they're based off is copyrighted (Wikia sites for various topics do this). The license only does apply to content ''created'' here. What should probably be done, if it isn't already, is some specification on pages in the <code>File:</code> namespace indicating that they are owned by someone other than the owners of this site. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 19:37, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

== #1663: Garden not yet added? ==

For me it's 4:30 AM, 4/4/16 - I have a sleep schedule just like [https://xkcd.com/361/], so I've been first on quite a few xkcd explanations immediately. when they came out.
I notice that usually, immediately once a new xkcd comic is released, a bot generates a corresponding bare-bones page on this wiki. However, this new comic "1663: Garden" doesn't yet have an automatically-generated page. Maybe it's because of the strange user-session hash key that appears in the URL bar when the "comic" is interacted with? Maybe this sort of interactive thing messes with the bot?
Am I just being impatient? Do I have to wait a few minutes? (I'm going to bed, and this probably won't be seen until tomorrow, but I am at least interested in knowing how the bot system works.) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.21|173.245.54.21]] 09:01, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

== Skins broken ==

It seems both the Classic and Monobook skins are very very broken. Only Vector seems to be laid out normally. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 19:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
: Yes, for me too. Let me see what can be done. [[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 20:10, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
::All calls to /load.php seem to fail, which results in the broken look. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.167|162.158.86.167]] 11:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
:::Oh wow, I thought I was the only one. [[User:SuperSupermario24|Just some random derp]] 15:57, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
::::Should be fixed now. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:59, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

== #1682: Not sure about the reference for Russian meaning for Bun ==
''Also interesting to note is that in several Slavic languages (including Russian, Czech and Polish), the word for Rabbit literally means Little King''

I'm a native Russian speaker, and i've never heard of Rabbit being used for ''Little King''...

* Rabbit: ''krolik'' (кролик)
* Little King: ''korolyok'' (королёк)

Not sure if this above statement is correct for Russian language. {{unsigned ip|162.158.255.28}}
:This is the main page. You probably want to put this in [[Talk:1682: Bun]]'''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 16:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

== Random Button ==
The actual xkcd site has one and adding one would make it closer to the actual site and make discovering random comics and their explanations easier. It could go next to the comic # button.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.69|173.245.52.69]] 01:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
:There is a random page button on the left. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:36, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
::Oh. Didn't see that. Sorry.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.69|173.245.52.69]] 20:16, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

== XKCD Alignment Chart ==

A while back, I was searching for an XKCD alignment chart, with no success, so I made one. It is not perfect, so I'm wondering what other opinions on the alignment of the characters are.

Lawful Good- Beret

Neutral Good- Ponytail

Chaotic Good- Mrs. Roberts

Lawful Neutral-Cueball

Neutral Neutral- Megan

Chaotic Neutral- White hat

Lawful Evil- Hairy

Neutral Evil- Danish

Chaotic Evil- Black Hat

--[[User:Fallencrow305|Fallencrow305]] ([[User talk:Fallencrow305|talk]]) 22:10, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

:What about Help I'm trapped in a drivers license factory Elaine Roberts? --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 15:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
::Or Hairbun? Or Science Girl? Here are my predictions: Elaine - Chaotic Good, Hairbun - Lawful Good, Science Girl - Lawful Neutral --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 16:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

== 1713 cc also means carbon copy. So 50 carbon copies of either of those words could be called for. ==

1713 cc also means carbon copy. So 50 carbon copies of either of those words could be called for. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.146}}
:Sorry, but [[User:108.162.215.146|108.162.215.146]], you need to remember to sign your work. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 11:50, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

== Chatroom Idea... What do you guys think? ==
I have an idea. What if there was a discussion board for the wiki? (And no, I don't mean boards like this or the "comment section" of comic explanations. I mean a live chatroom plugin of sorts. We could add it to the website and enable it so we can talk to each other in real-time and make live edits with each other. This way, we can also let each other know of edits we've made, make new pages altogether, or just talk. What do you guys think? -- [[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 9:10, 13 September 2016
:The [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:RecentChanges recent changes] log already notifies all users on the site of new pages and edits. User talk pages and the community portals exist for coordination. Also, avoid creating new comment topics in the middle of a talk page in the future, comments are supposed to follow a chronological order. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:39, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
::Sorry. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 13:59, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

== Copying versus embedding ==

Hi, I'm new here and I'm trying not to be an asshole. However, I just noticed that this site uses its own archive of copied xkcd comics, rather than using the image URL provided for hotlinking and embedding. I can understand this website will want to have its own archive in case xkcd.org ever goes offline, but until then, why not just embed the images instead of copying?

The reason I'm asking: I just realised I hardly ever go to xkcd.org anymore ever since my browser put explainxkcd above xkcd.org. Explanations get updated, so sometimes I check back later, which rarely happens with the comics. It makes perfect sense. But if more people experience this issue, xkcd.org is getting fewer unique visitors because of it, and this could be fixed by fetching the image directly from there, while still making and storing a copy in case it is needed in the future. Thoughts, anyone? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.33|141.101.104.33]] 17:08, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
:So, we can't do this for every comic, like [[1190]] or other april fools comics. Also, xkcd's revenue comes from merchandise sales, not ad revenue, so I believe it's not actually negatively impacting them that we're serving the images ourselves rather than making the main site serve them for us. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 05:39, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

:Embedding images is generally known as "stealing bandwidth", since it uses resources of the original site's server (may be limited) without bringing it any actual visitors (they won't see anything else of the website, like announcements, shop, other sections, ...). Also, depending on how unique visitors are counted, "visitors" through embedding might be invisible (client's side scripts won't be loaded). So no image embedding without the original site's owner express permission. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 12:51, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

== Other Languages ==
Are there translations of pages anywhere. It has been mentioned that they are on subdomains of this site, or a sub-page, as Main_Page/es for spanish. I can't seem to find them there. [[User:The Muffin Man|The Muffin Man]] ([[User talk:The Muffin Man|talk]]) 14:48, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
:It's a work in progress, long delayed but I really do want to get to it eventually. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 18:58, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

== Why are there male/female symbols in some of the entries? ==

Those symbols are not in the comic, but they're in the table. I think a vandal put them there. Can someone remove them from the Lavaball, Bladeball, Eggspotting, Merfishing, Consequence Golf and Heck Escape? (now don't act like someone who criticizes "politically correct leftist "libt++d" SJW snowflakes" just because I said "heck" or censored the derogatory term for "liberal" or not even trying to say these uncensored) -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.106|108.162.221.106]] 12:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

== How quaint ==

From the Main Page:

Explain xkcd: '''It's 'cause you're dumb.'''

From the Rules section:

'''Don't be a jerk. '''

(Emphasis mine)

How very ,very quaint. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.100|162.158.126.100]] 21:00, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

== HTTPS? ==

Hi,
With the general trend towards HTTPS being favoured over HTTP for security and speed reasons, would it be possible to force the use of HTTPS and secure the mixed content please?

Please see [https://www.whynopadlock.com/results/7e707bfd-cd71-4b00-b95e-be226fb10fb6 Why no Padlock?] for more details.

Thanks,
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.179.202|162.158.179.202]] 10:32, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

:Browsing using HTTPS seems to just work. There's even a signed certificate.
:https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1946

:I really don't get why people are so convinced that browsing using HTTPS is so much more "secure". You even seem to claim that it's faster?
:If you love it so much, install a browser extension like https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere.

:With the exception of the login / register page, I really don't see the point for enforcing this for the whole site. I am no admin though.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.93|172.69.54.93]] 22:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

We are already in 2018 and this website still does not even redirect automatically to HTTPS ([https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200170536-How-do-I-redirect-all-visitors-to-HTTPS-SSL- you can do it so easily with Couldflare...]) nor enforce HTTPS with {{w|HSTS}}... I don't know, just check [https://scotthelme.co.uk/hardening-your-http-response-headers/#strict-transport-security on Scott Helme's site] why it's important. Having to rely on the user installing an extension for doing the sysadmin work is a bad joke, really. And it does not fix some issues with mixed content of course. With Let's Encrypt and Cloudflare providing certificates for free and the plethora of tutorials online on securing a website (not limited to HTTPS), there is no excuse to not do it. -- [[User:guest|guest]] ([[User talk:guest|talk]]) 11:22, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

== "It's because you're dumb" ==
I see that there was some talk about this a while ago, in which people seemed to agree that the "It's because you're dumb" tagline is unnecessarily mean and should be changed... and yet, it's still here. I'd like to add some more fuel to the fire with several reasons why I really hate this tagline:

* The tagline doesn't fit the tone of XKCD. Randall celebrates knowledge. Even Black Hat wouldn't just outright say "You're dumb", because he's a classhole who can insult way better than that.
* Many of the people who contribute to this wiki are very smart. They're not dumb.
* They're also quite amicable from what I've seen. If they wouldn't insult someone, why is the website doing so?
* Not knowing something is not the same as being dumb. Even the smartest people don't know everything.
* Having a desire to learn is smart, not dumb.
* The tagline's logic is flawed. Just because you learn a new thing, doesn't mean you were dumb to begin with.

Anyone with me on this?

[[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 14:07, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

: The first line of the "Rules" section is "Don't be a jerk" at the time of writing. The first thing this wobsite does is to break that rule. I'm not sure what else is to be said here. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 16:55, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1891: Obsolete Technology

2018-03-16T14:06:36Z

162.158.126.76:

Wasn't DOS still running behind Win95, and integrated into the OS similarly to the Linux shell? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.59.154|162.158.59.154]] 14:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
:Even worse than that. DOS was not "integrated" into Win95 or Win98, but Win95 and Win98 were built to run atop DOS. Windows NT did away with that dependency on DOS.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.102|141.101.105.102]] 22:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
::Win Me were also built to run atop DOS. Win NT were considered server system, only later Win 2000 and Win XP brought NT-based Windows to home machines. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:38, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
::Not quite. Windows NT was a concurrent line with the more mainstream 95/98/ME line (I think ME also was on top of DOS, but I never used it so I'm not sure). At the same timeline as those versions of Windows was Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 (NT 5.0), and maybe NT 3.5 earlier than that. Windows 95 was originally supposed to only be a temporary stepping stone from DOS with Windows 3.11 to bring people over to NT, so they kept DOS as the underlying foundation of Windows (which was a good thing because power programs and high end games still used DOS, to avoid the resource suck that is Windows. Not being in Windows frees up processing power). But so many people liked and adopted 95 that they came out with a "sequel", 98. This two-lines idiocy ended rather with Windows XP in the early 2000s, which combined the two lines, having elements of the NT line - like the NTFS system for larger hard drives, literally "NT File System", which is still in use today - with elements of the 95 line - like removing and relaxing the restrictions that blocked certain programs and games from running in Windows NT in favour of greater system stability (my NT 4.0 computer crashed the least of every Windows I've ever run). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:27, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

This reminds me of this Raganwald article on Blub: [http://weblog.raganwald.com/2006/10/are-we-blub-programmers.html Are we blub programmers?] Adequate doesn't mean best for the job; this comic presents the other side of the coin, don't upgrade just for upgrade's sake. --[[User:Jgt|Jgt]] ([[User talk:Jgt|talk]]) 14:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

The computer doesn't look like an early PC from the MS-DOS era. Reminds me more of the previous generation: à so-called mini-computer or a terminal connected to a mainframe.
Zetfr 15:32, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

:You are right, but I think we should make allowances to the look as this is stated to be an 'industrial' computer. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.52|172.68.110.52]] 16:24, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

::Actually I take this unusual look to be quite on purpose: this machine is so unique, in such a specific place doing a specific job, that nobody has tried changing or updating anything in years. It might even take a reboot to spot WHAT is booting up. Hence the situation as it stands, that "new technology takes a while to come to" this computer, as an industry, or a section thereof. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:32, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

https://www.cpsc.gov/Safety-Education/Safety-Education-Centers/Fireworks has a link to the 2016 Fireworks Annual Report, which has some useful statistics on page 2, the executive summary.
--[[User:Ozmandias42|Ozmandias42]] ([[User talk:Ozmandias42|talk]]) 20:08, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I just finished working on upgrading an industrial control system. In the plant's control rooms, the interfaces and terminals were relatively new, running Windows 7 Ultimate. However, the DBMs in the server room that managed the control network were running MS-DOS 6.22, and they still worked just fine. The client was only upgrading the system because the OEM no longer provided support or replacement components.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.11|108.162.238.11]] 21:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

What bothers me about old technology is that security updates stop while the rest of the world gains an ever-increasing exploit advantage over people connecting to the same Internet. Along with the risks to them, it's worse when compromised devices act as workhorses to leverage "millions of papercuts" against the rest of the system. [[User:Elvenivle|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle|talk]]) 00:27, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

:: The systems running these old OS versions are generally not connected to the outside world, especially not to the internet. These servers are generally used to control components in the overall system (e.g. start or stop a pump) and have no reason to be connected. In that situation, security updates are far less important, as only a handful of people can even connect to the machine from a private network.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.115|162.158.111.115]] 07:16, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Hm, while it makes sense to stick to a DOS based system if nothing newer is required, the comparative of fireworks/nuclear weapons is incorrect. Upgrading those MSDOS systems to something newer (which could be just freedos) would perhaps incur on huge unnecessary expenses at most, while "upgrading" fireworks to nuclear energy would not only would make them far more expensive, it would make them far, far more dangerous and deadly. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.123|162.158.69.123]] 00:32, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

:What surprises me is that anything for which MS-DOS includes drivers would still be physically running after this long... in the comic scenario, they went 20 years without needing to replace key components? That said, for a lot of the older industrial systems, running something LIKE Dos, such as FREEDOS, or various custom boot environments which use DOS command formats, would probably make perfect sense. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.47|172.68.58.47]]

Neutrino beams would also mostly go straight through (without interacting with) any sort of detector you might wish to use to intercept the signal.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 07:39, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

141.101.99.233, there are neutrino detectors, and they have been used to detect artificially generated neutrinos. For an example from 1999, http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/29/science/team-detects-neutrino-fired-through-earth-s-crust.html and more recently for communications at http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/mar/19/neutrino-based-communication-is-a-first . The problem is partially the cost, but market traders would pay a lot to get a small speedup in communications from, say, NYC to London. The bigger problem is the bandwidth and latency. The experiment in the second link has a bandwidth of less than 1 bit per second. You can send a lot of data around the world in less than a second.

I still use MS-DOS. Unless there's an easier way to get a list of all the files in a folder in text file format. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.62|162.158.155.62]] 09:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
: Is that a joke? Is that a real question? In Windows 10; Win Key, type "command line", press enter to open Command Line. Type "CD <Address>" and press enter, where address is desired address. You can also right-click the address bar of any File Explorer location and choose Copy Address As Text, and just paste it into the address bar. Then type "dir > list.txt". DONE. If you want to trim out the extra information so that it's literally just a list of files with no extra information, like if you want to plug it into a program to process those files, use "dir /b > list.txt". Windows 10 doesn't have DOS. It still supports all the usual basic command line stuff. The ''hardest part'' about doing this in Windows 10 ''is having to install Windows 10''. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.106|162.158.2.106]] 11:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
:: I suspect the guy at "162.158.155.62" is the kind of user who confuses the NT's cmd prompt as "MS-DOS" (which is quite common, unfortunately) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.159|162.158.69.159]] 08:51, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
::: No, Command Prompt '''IS''' DOS, essentially, just with a new name. Runs all the same commands in the same way, works the same way. Those of us who remember using MS-DOS have a nice advantage in that environment for this reason. The only differences are subtle and largely internal (the only differences I can think of is that there's an underlying security being applied, hence the existence of "Administrator Command Prompt", and that it isn't the underlying foundation of Windows, that the original phrase, Disk Operating System, is no longer accurate). I believe the name change was mostly just to not scare away people who heard about DOS having a steep learning curve. In fact, having used DOS 5.0, 6.0 and 6.22, I find there's NO difference in the language since 6.22, especially considering the differences between the other versions. Trying to make the point the it isn't DOS is nit picking and helps nothing.
::: And I agree with 162 158 155 62 here, I use '''DOS''' quite regularly to get file lists. I'm really not sure why Windows has never implemented such functionality. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:32, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
:::: Command prompt runs like DOS, sure. But it's not DOS. This is a comic about '''Obsolete Technology'''. If you're using Command Prompt in a currently supported version of Windows, you're not using '''obsolete''' technology. Command Line will never be an obsolete feature in any OS used by computing enthusiasts - not until we have neural interfaces. MS-DOS - an actual MS-DOS installation - '''is''' obsolete. Windows '''did''' implement such functionality. That's what Command Prompt is for: using the keyboard to call up a ton of functions that are too niche to be in the right-click menu. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.106|162.158.2.106]] 16:55, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
::::: Other than Command Prompt not actually being the foundation of the operating system, I can't find a single difference. The language is the same, the commands are the same, even the command switches are the same. People here are nitpicking nomenclature. I am one of many who find it perfectly acceptable to refer to it as DOS. It seems like using the Command Prompt in Windows should theoretically be unnecessary, that its continued presence is mostly to keep geeks like me happy. As such, actually using it would be thought of as using obsolete technology (not that it '''Is''' obsolete, seems like most if not all of the people in this thread knows of things only possible within Command Prompt). After all, the trend over the last decades is toward "user friendly", starting with hiding DOS away, letting people do things without knowing commands. These days "user friendly" seems to mean "hiding away anything that isn't basic", it's old fashioned to need text commands. If it isn't doable directly in Windows, it's because Microsoft deemed it unnecessary. Besides which, my comments are less about the comic but more about comments here nitpicking other comments. Let people call it DOS and move on, don't get stuck in the muck. That's all I'm really saying. Some people seem to be nitpicking so hard as to actually seem confused, like thinking (or pretending to think) that mentioning using DOS means using a DOS emulator! [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:32, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
:::::: And all I was saying, was that someone talking about '''Windows NT Command Line''', in a discussion about obsolete technology, while calling it "DOS", is choosing to be misunderstood. Even if it looks and acts the same for the user, it has completely different code under the hood. It's technology is different. DOS is obsolete because it can't use modern innovations, like more than 4GB of RAM, or USB, or multi-core CPUs. DOS-style commands are an entirely different subject to MS-DOS, the operating system. (And "User Friendly" is literally about making it easier for Novices to use technology. Typing commands is not novice-friendly. If you are an advanced user, command lines are helpful, especially for Admins, but Windows is designed for the average consumer, using as little cerebral overhead as possible, not the advanced users.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.106|162.158.2.106]] 17:35, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
::::::: ***sigh*** No, actually, as I said, it's people nitpicking nomenclature (that means word choice) are the ones ACTUALLY choosing to misunderstand. All those limitations you listed are part of the operating system, which I've already dismissed as the only real difference between DOS and Command Prompt. So this argument is invalid, ignoring the stipulation already made. The LANGUAGE of Command Prompt is the same as DOS. Which means from a user point of view, they're the damned same. That it "looks and acts the same for the user" is everything, and why such relaxing of terminology is perfectly acceptable! The point of language is to be understood. And, barring people nitpicking and being difficult and purposely misunderstanding, calling it DOS can be easily understood. Mission accomplished. So, again, quit nitpicking and move on. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:05, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Actually, this "nitpicking" as you call it is exactly the kind of "Learn something new every day" material we need /more/ of on explainxkcd. Do away with people who refuse to actually learn like you (not sure why you're so proud about being wrong but w/e.)
::::::::This whole comments thread should make it clear that, no, mislabelling it as DOS can not be easily understood. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 14:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

: So you use a Windows 10 Dos emulator to run what are effectively dos commands and disparage the guy that uses dos? (I suspect even they are not using a real MSDOS but do use dos commands)
:: No, what I'm saying is that using DOS to run simple command line operations is like having Linux so you can program in C. They have failed to address any actual reason to use DOS over a modern OS. If he was running a potato, or a Pi, or he was running a server, that'd make sense. Or, you know, run a DOS game that literally doesn't work on an NT PC. I totally agree that upgrades without measurable advantages aren't good ideas, but this was a bad example. Though, I also failed to note that the NT Command Line can be mistaken for MS-DOS, and assumed he was using some sort of dual boot. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.106|162.158.2.106]] 09:56, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
: I use a calculator app occasionally that has many fewer functions than my first HP35 back in 1973 - the point is it does the job I need, and updating it to 200 scientific functions while entirely possible would not make it "better". Somebody wrote that Windows 10 Dos emulator because for some file and directory manipulations dos does what is needed in the most efficient manner.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 02:35, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
:: Wow. No, I don't think ANYBODY is talking about using a DOS emulator! Except the people writing these misguided responses... Just because Microsoft is using the substitute name Command Prompt, and that it isn't the literal Operating System anymore, doesn't mean there's any call for this level of nit picking, to the point of jumping to the weird conclusion that anybody is running commands in an emulator. There's no reason to do this. In my experience, the only reason anyone uses an emlator - generally DOSBox - is to run DOS games, not do anything useful. Calling it DOS is simply simpler that calling it Command Prompt, that's it. There are still no differences in the commands and their use since MS-DOS 6.22, which IIRC is more than can be said about the differences between 6.22 and 6.0. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:32, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Chernobyl and Fukushima were nuclear reactor meltdowns, not nuclear explosions. Also I think three citation needed-jokes in one explanation is too much and not fun anymore. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.29|162.158.238.29]] 09:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
:I wholeheartedly agree. I've become tired of the general overuse of that joke in explainxkcd. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.143|162.158.79.143]] 13:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
:I agree. I am usually a fan of well placed "citation needed" jokes, but not only are these three to rapidly following each other, they also don't fit the usual joke as the statements they acompany can - in my oppinion - be reasonably challenged. Would nuclear fireworks really necasarily cause larger, immediately lethal explosions? Couldn't one build a tiny nuke suitable for a firework? (And with that statement I will probably find myself on a no-fly list)[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.199|162.158.89.199]] 13:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
::Heh, I had once theorized building a mock-up of a nuclear explosion audio-visual effects out of conventional materials: some contained explosive for the bang (just a big firecracker), some magnesium mixture for the flash and some hydrocarbons for the raising mushroom-shaped fireball. Then build up a model town and set the whole contraption off while filming it in slow-motion... Never actually followed that idea. Those were happy times, playing with chemistry and making a small flash or bang once in a while. Today, I can't even buy basic reagents...

"Real-world fax detractors would rather replace it with other electronic communication systems, not neutronic ones." Wouldn't neuTRONic systems use neuTRONs? Would these be neutrinic, neutrinoic? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.143|162.158.79.143]] 13:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

"Would nuclear fireworks really necasarily cause larger, immediately lethal explosions?" asked 162.158.89.199. No. Starfish Prime, described in "A Very Scary Light Show: Exploding H-Bombs In Space" at http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2010/07/01/128170775/a-very-scary-light-show-exploding-h-bombs-in-space .

I think the joke about electrons is based on the speed of electons not the speed of electronic signals. An electronic signal travels much faster than the electrons themselves, which moves more glacially between high and low points (about walking speed).[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.46|162.158.114.46]] 12:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

An interesting point which Randall may have had in mind: Through at least 2017, the U.S. was still using literal floppy disks (the old 3.5" kind) to run nuclear program software.

From CNN.com: "According to a new report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), which found that the Pentagon was still using 1970s-era computing systems that require eight-inch floppy disks." http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/us/pentagon-floppy-disks-nuclear/index.html [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.65|162.158.79.65]] 18:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1572: xkcd Survey

2018-03-15T13:40:39Z

162.158.126.76:

Mildly interesting to note that the ordering of most of the checkbox/radiobutton lists randomise each time the survery is loaded. Also, there is at least one other comic where Randall comments about not having figured out HTML imagemaps. Anyone remember which? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 10:52, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:It was in one of his "under the logo" news bars, about him starting What If, iirc --[[User:Aescula|Aescula]] ([[User talk:Aescula|talk]]) 11:28, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I wonder how many people, on reading 'Type "cat" here:', typed '"cat" here:'? I know I did... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 11:58, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Guilty...--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 12:08, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Me too... However you could have typed '"cat" here:', as well... (/edit: I wonder how many different entries the survey's result will reveal) (/edit2: I did not read properly... sorry. I typed '"cat"' not '"cat" here:' -.-)[[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:27, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: I typed meow -[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.86|141.101.105.86]] 12:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
::Where it said "Type five random words" I typed "five random words" (without the quotes).
::--[[User:Lou Crazy|Lou Crazy]] ([[User talk:Lou Crazy|talk]]) 11:24, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
:::My first thought there was "Correct Horse Battery Staple"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.47|162.158.255.47]] 04:42, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
::::Those were the first four of my five "random words". -- [[User:Pne|Pne]] ([[User talk:Pne|talk]]) 17:18, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
::::Man, why didn't I think of that? [[User:Sobsz|Sobsz]] ([[User talk:Sobsz|talk]]) 06:37, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
:::I tried to make it at least a bit random, rather than arbitrary, with a bash script: <nowiki>for _ in 1 2 3 4 5; do sed -n "$(((((32768*RANDOM)+RANDOM) % $(wc -l </usr/share/dict/words) ) + 1))p" /usr/share/dict/words; done</nowiki> -- ferret [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.121|141.101.99.121]] 11:58, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Not sure if it was just me, but the comic wasn't a link at all! The cursor changed into a No cursor for me everytime I mouseover'd the comic. I went to survey using the "Bonus Link!" below the comic page. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:01, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Never mind, this was probably due to the WebComics reader extension that I have in my browser. [[User:Brilliantnut|Brilliantnut]] ([[User talk:Brilliantnut|talk]]) 12:03, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
From hearing people on reddit comment about not being able to completely fill the text box (not just the visual box) with the error "Answer too long", it's caused by a 10k character limit. Presumably by Google Docs. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.192|108.162.249.192]] 13:18, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Can we get a note on the title text? Something about the [[1493]]-like vacuousness of "Big Data for a Big Planet". Also, I added a defn for "revergent"; future researchers, anyone who knows that one is probably a fern biologist. [[User:FourViolas|FourViolas]] ([[User talk:FourViolas|talk]]) 20:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:I just did a bit on the title text, but I don't think that I did the best job at explaining it, so someone should look over what I did.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 23:32, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

;Validation
The validation choices are interesting.
* "Enter a number between 1 and 100" rejects numbers outside this range (e.g. -1) but also reject valid responses (e.g. π).
* "Enter your age" and "Enter the number of $SIBLING" accept invalid responses such as -1. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 13:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:-1 is not an "invalid response" for "Enter your age" if you are an unborn fetus. On the day of birth and all subsequent days less than one year later, a baby's age is zero. So from one year before birth to the day before birth, a fetus's age is negative one.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.214.233|108.162.214.233]] 06:49, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
::I would like to point out that, one year prior to birth, a fetus does not exist. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 13:40, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
:I (with ''fairly'' honest intention) tried to give non-numeric answers to the two Think Of A Number questions and my the age one (honestly, I had to actually think about that one, for a moment) and found them restricted to numbers only. So obviously Randall's not ''so'' subversive as to allow free text. (BTW, I've ''only'' driven 'stick shift', though an old friend of mine has just gotten an automatic, I think for the first time, which said was rather posh of him.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 15:55, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
I used an HTML inspector tool to create a unique response to one of the radio button questions. The form claimed to submit successfully; it should be obvious in the results if it worked. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 16:29, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

;Identification
"it's possible that someone may be able to identify you by looking at your responses"
Then why send those informations to Google ? I find the idea of thee survey interesting but why Google doc ? There are other options like Lime Survey. [[User:Seipas|Seipas]] ([[User talk:Seipas|talk]]) 13:37, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
: Given the stated intention to make the collected dataset available publicly, there's no information-security reason to prefer another survey tool over Google. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 14:21, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:: Technically Google could de-anonymize the data if you're logged in or otherwise identifiable when submitting the survey. When Randall publishes the data set it can be completely anonymized. Not that I care if Google knows I claim to consider myself half-cat, half-person. [[User:Jestempies|Jestempies]] ([[User talk:Jestempies|talk]]) 21:15, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

;Not a transcript
This is mildly interesting, but it is not a transcript. Transcripts are meant mainly for blind people and search engines. Different letter sizes and a frame are not needed. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:{| style="text-align:center; border:1pt black solid;"
|| Introducing '''THE XKCD SURVEY''' A search for weird correlations Note: This survey is anonymous, but all responses will be posted publicly so people can play with the data. '''Click here to''' '''take the survey''' Or click here, or here. The whole comic is a link, because I still haven't gotten the hang of HTML imagemaps. 
|}
::The transcript is not only for blind people. And an enhanced layout doesn't harm them but instead it would help them. A speech synthesizer would tell them something like "headline" or "small text at bottom" so that the impaired people would get a much better feeling of the comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:12, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

I wonder how many people included "battery, horse, staple, correct" in the five random words box. {{unsigned ip|173.245.56.64}}
:I typed ');drop table survey; -- at the end of the random characters text box. I must have been the first person to think of that because the survey was still working. [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:I typed "cat, cat, cat, cat, cat" in random words and "lion, cat, dog, horse, '''''lettuce'''''" for the random animals. Yes, I was trolling. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.150|108.162.221.150]] 06:38, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

I wish it was funny. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.148|108.162.241.148]] 16:20, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

;Tables Vs Bulleted List

The list of questions and possible responses has been added to the explanation by myself and xhfz, in different formats. I went for a wikitable, xhfz used a bulleted list. Rather than just overwrite each other, I think we need to have a discussion on which is the best choice. The reasons I believe a wikitable is the best option:
:*Far better expandability, in anticipation of survey results
:*More structured and neater presentation
In general I tend to lean towards tables, but it is probably a constructive discussion to have for the wiki as a whole. I would be interested to hear opinions of bulleted list vs tables in these types of situation.--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 13:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

If we have a table we need colspan instead of rowspan. On the other hand a table is very difficult to maintain. In addition, the table didn't have space for explanations (another column, maybe). [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 13:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:If you used colspan, questions like "How many of these 20 words do you know" would be excessively wide. Perhaps a combination of colspan and rowspan, or simply a single cell with the responses listed as comma seperated list. As far as adding a column for explanations, its pretty trivial. What I'm getting at is that perhaps the format of a table would need to be optimised, but that is entirely feasible.
:I agree with you as far as tables being more intimidating to edit and maintain, but once set up they aren't that bad.
:Bulleted lists (to me at least) look messy, and tend to lack a coherent structure. As more information is added, sub-levels and sub-sub-levels are added without much thought as to the overall intent. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 14:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

By colspan I mean this:
{| class="wikitable"
!Question
!Possible Answers
|-
|colspan="2"|When you think about stuff on the internet, where do you picture it being physically located? Even if you know it's not really how things work, is there a place you imagine websites and social media posts sitting before you look at them? If so, where is it?
|-
|
|''Multi-line text box''
|-
|colspan="2"|Which of these words do you know the meaning of?
|-
|
|Slickle
|-
|
|Rife
|-
|
|Soliloquy
|-
|
|Fination
|-
|
|Stipple
|-
|
|Peristeronic
|-
|
|Modicum
|-
|
|Trephony
|-
|
|Tribution
|-
|colspan="2"|Have you ever thrown out all your different pairs of socks/underwear, bought a bunch of replacements that were all one kind, and then told all your friends how great it was and how they should do it too?
|-
|
|Yes
|-
|
|No
|-
|
|I did the throwing out thing, but didn't talk to everyone about it
|-
|
|No, but I'm totally doing that now
|}
[[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 14:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

: Yeah, if someone just did that, that would be great. [[User:Nk22|The Twenty-second. The Not So Only. The Nathan/Nk22]] ([[User talk:Nk22|talk]]) 18:54, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

;Missing questions
Something notably missing which would have greatly helped later analysis was a question about where someone is - Country and/or State. Some of the questions and answers will be differently understood because of that (eg meaning if 'sandwich') --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.65|141.101.98.65]] 14:23, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:I think that is the whole point though, to provide a data set that actively attempts to ''prevent'' the obvious simple analysis. There are plenty of statistics on how people from place A are more likely to do thing B. What I want to know is "How many people who would class a taco as a sandwich and can drive stick shift are able to juggle?". Also, is it true that most people think they are above average drivers? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
::If you're actually curious about those questions, the answers are "0" and "yes". No one classes a taco as a sandwich. The only thing that this data set will provide is how many sandwich-trolls ''claim'' to be able to drive stick shifts and juggle.--[[User:Antipudder|Antipudder]] ([[User talk:Talk/talk/talk|talk]]) 15:10, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

;Subsections were added for ease of editing

You can delete the subsections later. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:30, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:Ok, I agree on that. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:42, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

;I think we shouldn't force the reader to go to Wikipedia

I added explanations in "Activities" and twice they were deleted. Why? [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572:_xkcd_Survey&diff=prev&oldid=100879] [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1572%3A_xkcd_Survey&diff=100921&oldid=100920] [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:39, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:Personally, I think those activities are so easily understood, that adding an "explanation" is not necessary. I think wiki links are sufficient, so that if somehow people don't know what the activities are, they can go look. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

::I know 20,000 words in [http://testyourvocab.com testyourvocab.com]. I also know soliloquy, modicum, amiable and salient. I had never heard of dunk, sheet bend, bowline, or stick shift, but I know the meaning of manual transmission without going to Wikipedia. [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 15:47, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

:::For the record, it wasn't me who deleted the explanations. The fact that Randall included those words in his survey without any explanation shows that they are fairly common words. In the context of the question, the meaning becomes clearer (Tie a sheet bend or bowline = its very likely those are knots), and if people still don't know, they can click on the wiki link. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 16:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
:::From a different perspective, I ''understand'' a number of the words and terms, even though they aren't the ones I'd use, locally. i.e. gas/petrol, stick-shift/gears, cell phone/mobile phone, soda/pop (and where would cordial, to be diluted with water, sit in that list of drinks..? either way, I chose "fruit juice" so maybe that covers it). Also I think I would call an "open-faced sandwich" a {{w|Sm%C3%B6rg%C3%A5sbord|'Smorgasbord'}}, but that seems to be a childhood misunderstanding of what the scandinavian term actually represents (the whole buffet, not any individual item bread-and-topping construct that you end up with on your platter). "Condiments" obviously means something differently, too. For me that's the likes of salt, pepper and vinegar - along with other chopped herbs at a push - but from context it sounds like it includes dips such as mayonnaise, and/or sauces like ketchup/brown/tartar. A different world, truly! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.108|141.101.99.108]] 17:46, 2 September 2015 (UTC)
::::It's a poorly worded question to which people in some countries would answer the opposite of that intended because of the way the question is worded. Very few cars run on gas (a friend's van runs on LPG), but many use petrol or diesel. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.239.32|198.41.239.32]] 05:55, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
:::::Fellow Brits? No, IP of the latter appears to be Arizona (or at least the ISP, in Phoenix). Strange. Anyway, thanks to copious imports of 'Merkin TV and film, it'd be obvious to most(/all?) people I know that gas(olene) would be the common word in the US for the fuel that I'd call petrol(eum). Or so I was under the impression of, until now. Of course there is ''actual'' gas (modern LPG or [https://www.pinterest.com/pin/155585362099248762/ wartime contingencies]) but so far liquid hydrocarbons seem to still be king, inclusive of DERV. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.188|141.101.98.188]] 07:51, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

:I changed them to Wikipedia links because it seemed neater, uses the hypertext features of HTML for the reason they were intended, and seemed more in line with general style here. No-one is forced to go to Wikipedia, but providing useful hyperlinks instead of having to explain everything inline is generally considered A Good Thing &tm;. It wasn't intended as a personal affront. This is a wiki - we can all edit to make things (hopefully) a bit better. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 12:40, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

;Can we access the results now?

Are the contents available at a known URL? I use Google Docs but have never done a survey before...[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.24|141.101.105.24]] 06:03, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

;Maple syrup

The current article comments that the "Maple syrup" option to the ''any that you drink'' question is a joke. Are you sure? I have met several people (to clarify, adults, I'm not even considering children) who drink straight maple syrup, and many times more who pour maple syrup into their drinks (notably coffee, tea, and milk are the most common I see people pour it into). There are webpages devoted to maple syrup drink recipes (alcoholic and non-alcoholic) and people debating other people's opinions on whether maple syrup is better drunk hot, cold, or room temperature. There is a possibility that Randall was not intending this question as a joke since it seems to be "a thing" among some people. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.11|108.162.220.11]] 12:16, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
:I was very delighted to see maple syrup under the drink options! When I started the survey with my co-workers I came to the condiments question and was explaining to them how I even drink maple syrup. So I was very giddy when I came to the drink question! Yes, I do drink maple syrup and not as a joke, usually at night and only Grade B. --[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 15:40, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

;Regarding "Difficult words" not currently linked
*Trephony - Another (equally obselete) term for Trepanning. The not listed directly on the Wikipedia page for the topic (the article uses gerund forms in discussing other names for the procedure), but the related gerund "trephining" is listed. Cf. also Trephine, which was the actual surgical instrument used for these procedures (and for which Trephony occasionally served as an alternate spelling).
*Tribution appears to be the result of converting the [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tribute#Verb tribute (when used as a verb)]into a noun by use of the [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-tion#English -tion suffix]. While this is a standard form, it is also nonsense (as the nounal form is also tribute).
*Unitory - An obsolete spelling unitary used in mathematics, chiefly British. Several examples appear in the of the papers of the [https://books.google.com/books?id=Wl1BAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA5-PA27&lpg=RA5-PA27&dq=unitory+method&source=bl&ots=rfRKJXAJqV&sig=Wsr_gV7xG6Airah9Lx1M0hi-7Zc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBmoVChMInd_R9qTbxwIVChU-Ch36IAh_#v=onepage&q=unitory%20method&f=false 1913 Imperial Education Conference] (I've linked to the instance on page 97 as an example). You will still occasionally see this spelling in use when discussing the Unitary Method in former British Colonies.
*Cadine -- the french term also saw some use in English as a loanword. Cf. [https://books.google.com/books?id=4yz-Y-_OOO0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=cadine&f=false page 146 of Volume 99 of The Gentleman's Magazine and Historical Chronicle (published 1829)] for several examples.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.36|108.162.216.36]] 16:54, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
;Apricity: this appears to be an obsolete, poetic and/or pompous word to describe the sun's heat in winter. It shows up in several dictionaries from the 1700's through the Victorian era; e.g., [http://books.google.com/books?id=CFBGAAAAYAAJ&pg=PT76&dq=apricity#v=onepage&q=apricity&f=false Bailey 1775] - Anonymous

Should we move the survey section to a different page (e.g. [[1572: xkcd Survey/Survey]])? It takes up most of the current page. {{User:17jiangz1/signature|13:10, 04 September 2015}}
:The survey section is a transcript, so I moved it appropriately for now. {{User:17jiangz1/signature|13:14, 04 September 2015}}
::The survey is not a transcript. And even if it was it is not the comic and should thus not be listed as part of this comics transcript. But the survey section is used to explain the survey and this is certainly not supposed to happen in a transcript. I have moved it above the transcript again. But it could be an idea to make separate survey page and link to it from the comic page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:39, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

If one is free to skip any question, how does the survey distinguish between a skiped question and a question for which the answer is nothing, e.g. if one does not dislike any named beverage? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.241|162.158.90.241]] 11:47, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

'''[[Difficult words]]'''
Does anyone have access to a good bio-org chemistry reference? I seem to remember "-fination" as a valid suffix for O-Chem usage for fixation of certain kinds of reactions (ex. Pearson ole-fination), but I don't remember if there is a general meaning of the term. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.36}}

;HTML image maps
As a web designer, I'm certain that a big part of the joke is that almost no one uses image maps anymore -- the technique of cutting up images and laying them out using CSS or HTML tables (the latter now mostly obsolete) won out back in the 90s. The trouble you have to go to to create an image map is nowhere near worth the payoff. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.91|199.27.128.91]] 21:30, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
:When it comes to ''that'', I know someone who (in the mid 2000s!) made a web-page by rendering the entire page (including all text-as-raster, and it was ''mostly'' text) into a single image file (vastly over-assuming the consistency of the end-user's screen/browser-window dimensions), and image-mapped it. Yes, CSS already existed, and even without I would never have used it. I did a byte-for-byte comparison with an HTML-rendered version (even though that has its own inefficiences in sprawling across multiple bytes, in <LONGTAGNAMES></LONGTAGNAMES> in particular) and it was horrific. Never mind horribly unfriendly to anyone with a non-standard/special-needs browsing environment!
:Which might in part be why (more intelligent!) image-mapping never took off in the adolescent years of the web (once it became predominantly dial-up by home users, rather than those sat directly upon academic/etc LANs sitting on high=bandwidth fat pipes to the internet in its infancy, with bandwidth already used (outside of 'proper' usage)to pre/early Eternal September propgation of Usenet and UUEncoded images sent over email), even though quite intelligent usages of the art had been long pioneered for such purposes as literal (i.e. geographical!) map-clicking rather than the Mysterious Meat navigation method.
:But then it might also have died out after the initial bloom of Geocities, when the tedious last remnants of the <BLINK> tag phenomenon merged into the ubiquity of the over-use of animated GIFs depicting some form of "Website under construction" message, and there were so many other tricks to (over-)use in a person's supposedly interesting self-publicising page. Ahh... nostalgia!
:Seriously, however, looking at the design elements of site design, e.g. curve-effect button/frame areas and scrolling galleries, amongst other things, and a simple markup imagemap (if not coordinate-sending to be processed by the server-side scripting through URL-query format) has outlived its easy usefulness (for the coder in a hurry, who has so many other tool-scripts available) and now we need this complicated and often vastly obfuscated client-side scripting to make the gloriously laid-out web-pages react (consistently) to the end-user in the way intended. I'm sure you make sure your web pages work in the likes of Lynx and even screen-readers (where practical, and of course imagemaps always did work horribly for both of these!), but modern bells-and-whistles have progressed far beyond imagemap tomfoolery. Not always because the new method is ''better'', for a given instance, but that's progress for ya. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.32|141.101.98.32]] 12:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the series of image links to comics at the bottom of every xkcd comic page actually uses an imagemap. So apparently he did get the hang of it a while ago :) or at least his web designer did...[[User:DenverCoder9|DenverCoder9]] ([[User talk:DenverCoder9|talk]]) 21:27, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

;Underwear

I still don't understand why the last question asks about "socks/'''underwear'''" instead of just "socks". Is there any species of underwear that comes in pairs, ''other than'' socks? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.167|173.245.56.167]] 15:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

:It is supposed to be read as "(pairs of socks)/underwear", NOT "pairs of (socks/undrwear)" [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 08:50, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

::That still doesn't answer my question: why would anyone care if their underwear is all one kind? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.116|173.245.54.116]] 02:27, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

:::'''Comfort''', primarily. Find one kind of underwear that you find enjoyable to wear, then make sure all your underwear are all that kind and throw out the others - then you'll never have to wear or think about the uncomfortable ones that you routinely shove into the darkest corner of your drawer, ever again. Also, if you go shopping later, when you wear holes in the current selection, then you know exactly which brand and style, no waffling necessary. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.167|108.162.245.167]] 06:02, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

::: C'mon guys. It's about matching. I like always having matching socks. I've thrown away all my socks and started from scratch, because after a while, you lose socks or one sock gets a big hole in it, and you have to reboot. The same may hold true for women, who have been known to wear matching underwear in two parts: bras and panties. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.53|108.162.216.53]] 19:37, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Since the results still aren't in, I'm calling it now, so no one can accuse me of p-hacking: People who ended their entries in multiline textboxes with newlines are more likely to have opinions about text editors, suffer from colds, and show symptoms of insomnia. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.60|173.245.55.60]] 06:44, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

It has been over a year since this comic was released, where are the results Randall‽!? (Seriously, there are at least 2 Reddit posts asking about this) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.69|173.245.54.69]] 03:46, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

:Probably never going to come. [[User:SuperSupermario24|Just some random derp]] 17:40, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

1966: Smart Home Security

2018-03-14T12:28:08Z

162.158.126.76: Corrected wording

{{comic
| number = 1966
| date = March 12, 2018
| title = Smart Home Security
| image = smart_home_security.png
| titletext = If they're getting valuable enough stuff from you, at least the organized crime folks have an incentive to issue regular updates to keep the appliance working after the manufacturer discontinues support.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a FACELESS ENGINEER - Confirm that the graph means "the older the device, the worse the best-case is".}}

With the proliferation of smart appliances in recent years, there is a growing trend of hackers taking over smart "Internet of Things" devices and adding them to {{w|botnets}}. The hardware is then used for DDOS attacks, crypto mining etc. The "Mirai" botnet made of over 500,000 compromised routers, refrigerators, tvs, DVRs, baby monitors, thermostats, and webcams was used in October 2016 to take down DynDNS, one of the core infrastructure providers for the internet in North America.

With the potential threat always looming, security updates must be constantly pushed, and exploits must be found by the original developers and "white hat" hackers (The faceless team of engineers [[Randall]] describes), before they could be found (and get used) by "black hat" hackers. At any time, these people could quit, leaving devices defenseless.

The graph shows the various cases of how well things go on the y axis, compared to how long it has been owned on the x axis. Probability of compromise briefly dips (indicative of first rounds of security fix updates & the time window when you can easily exchange the product if you find out it's faulty) within the 1st year, then rises: The older a device/software is, the less likely it is to consistently receive security updates for protection, so they are more likely to be hacked, even in the best case. After 10 years, the device/software, is most likely outdated and is not being used anymore. Companies then no longer find it profitable to continually update the product, and then pull support out, even if people are still using it, leaving them vulnerable. This exact thing can happen to Android phones, once the manufacturer stops supporting the device, but can be avoided by running non-stock roms which provide continued Android security updates unofficially (for example, AOSP or LineageOS, to name the most well-known few.)

The title text suggests that there may be some silver lining to having your device controlled by organized crime professional s: These criminals have a vested interest in keeping your device working well enough that you keep it plugged in. So the more organized & pragmatic attackers will in fact secure it against competing attackers, especially those of a more prankster mindset, who'd cause more noticeably malicious changes. Advanced malware in the wild does frequently block & evict competing malware, so he's probably right. Some IOT malware may thus provide 'regular security update service' after the manufacturers give up - some at a conceivably acceptable cost of a few cents electrical usage for a crypto miner for instance. However, it could very easily go horribly wrong - for instance if that miner is hiding by letting a refrigerator run 2°C higher than its outputs allege, & using the energy difference to max out the processor on mining operations

==Transcript==
:[A graph is shown inside a frame. There is one dotted line going from the middle of the left edge, then dipping slightly before rising slowly at first, then more rapid and finally slowing its ascend down as it nears the top right corner.]

:[Above the frame is the title of the x-axis, and from each end of this text, there is a small line going out and then down, to indicate a time range, which is shown below with four times:]
:How long you've had your smart appliance
:6 months     1 year     5 years     10 years

:[Along the left part of the frame there runs a double arrow and at the top and bottom of these arrows there are legends at the top and bottom of the panels height:]
:Best-case
:Worst-case

:[Inside the panel there is text above the dotted line to the left, and below the dotted line to the right:]
:You're constantly being rescued from peril by a faceless team of engineers who could wander away at any time

:Your appliance is part of a botnet run by organized crime

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Virtual Assistants]]

1966: Smart Home Security

2018-03-14T12:24:42Z

162.158.126.76: Let's not pretend that LineageOS is the only non-stock Android around ;) (nor was Cyanogenmod ever)

{{comic
| number = 1966
| date = March 12, 2018
| title = Smart Home Security
| image = smart_home_security.png
| titletext = If they're getting valuable enough stuff from you, at least the organized crime folks have an incentive to issue regular updates to keep the appliance working after the manufacturer discontinues support.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a FACELESS ENGINEER - Confirm that the graph means "the older the device, the worse the best-case is".}}

With the proliferation of smart appliances in recent years, there is a growing trend of hackers taking over smart "Internet of Things" devices and adding them to {{w|botnets}}. The hardware is then used for DDOS attacks, crypto mining etc. The "Mirai" botnet made of over 500,000 compromised routers, refrigerators, tvs, DVRs, baby monitors, thermostats, and webcams was used in October 2016 to take down DynDNS, one of the core infrastructure providers for the internet in North America.

With the potential threat always looming, security updates must be constantly pushed, and exploits must be found by the original developers and "white hat" hackers (The faceless team of engineers [[Randall]] describes), before they could be found (and get used) by "black hat" hackers. At any time, these people could quit, leaving devices defenseless.

The graph shows the various cases of how well things go on the y axis, compared to how long it has been owned on the x axis. Probability of compromise briefly dips (indicative of first rounds of security fix updates & the time window when you can easily exchange the product if you find out it's faulty) within the 1st year, then rises: The older a device/software is, the less likely it is to consistently receive security updates for protection, so they are more likely to be hacked, even in the best case. After 10 years, the device/software, is most likely outdated and is not being used anymore. Companies then no longer find it profitable to continually update the product, and then pull support out, even if people are still using it, leaving them vulnerable. This exact thing can happen to Android phones, once the manufacturer stops supporting the device, but can be avoided by running non-stock roms which provide continued, unofficial Android security updates (for example, AOSP or LineageOS, to name the most well-known few.)

The title text suggests that there may be some silver lining to having your device controlled by organized crime professional s: These criminals have a vested interest in keeping your device working well enough that you keep it plugged in. So the more organized & pragmatic attackers will in fact secure it against competing attackers, especially those of a more prankster mindset, who'd cause more noticeably malicious changes. Advanced malware in the wild does frequently block & evict competing malware, so he's probably right. Some IOT malware may thus provide 'regular security update service' after the manufacturers give up - some at a conceivably acceptable cost of a few cents electrical usage for a crypto miner for instance. However, it could very easily go horribly wrong - for instance if that miner is hiding by letting a refrigerator run 2°C higher than its outputs allege, & using the energy difference to max out the processor on mining operations

==Transcript==
:[A graph is shown inside a frame. There is one dotted line going from the middle of the left edge, then dipping slightly before rising slowly at first, then more rapid and finally slowing its ascend down as it nears the top right corner.]

:[Above the frame is the title of the x-axis, and from each end of this text, there is a small line going out and then down, to indicate a time range, which is shown below with four times:]
:How long you've had your smart appliance
:6 months     1 year     5 years     10 years

:[Along the left part of the frame there runs a double arrow and at the top and bottom of these arrows there are legends at the top and bottom of the panels height:]
:Best-case
:Worst-case

:[Inside the panel there is text above the dotted line to the left, and below the dotted line to the right:]
:You're constantly being rescued from peril by a faceless team of engineers who could wander away at any time

:Your appliance is part of a botnet run by organized crime

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Virtual Assistants]]

Talk:1966: Smart Home Security

2018-03-13T06:46:50Z

162.158.126.76:

When I went to explainxkcd right after the comic posted, I saw this in the incomplete tag: "Created by ORGANIZED CRIME". Today is the day this website has officially swallowed its own tail. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 15:50, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
:Oh no! We must eradicate this enemy- We must start violent purging- No one can be trusted! [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 16:46, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
::(We are talking about McCarthyism right now in class while I write this... heh.) [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 16:46, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. Isn't the concern for smart appliances usually that since they're internet-connected, they can be used to for DDoS and other nefarious purposes? I mean, a smart thermostat doesn't really have the capability to spy on its owners, right?
:They can spy on your temperature preferences! (Dun dun dah!). You do have a point though. I originally was thinking more like smart home assistants, as that seems to be the craze now. That is ignoring the majority smart devices in the market though. You could get some information from most though, even it is minimal. You could get a rough floorplan from a roomba, you could get an idea what kind of products people buy with smart fridges... etc. We may never know what Randall's original intention was though. I wonder if he reads this wiki... Does he ever edit it?
:A smart thermostat often knows when you are home and not. It could easily be used to develop a pattern of behavior to determine when would be the best time to rob your house. Then there's smart door locks, with the obvious consequences of hacking. But yes, botnets are one of the biggest problems. Note that the graph (accurately!) shows a not-so-great best case on day 1, as most IoT security is awful.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.67|173.245.52.67]] 17:18, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
:Agreed. A much more likely scenario is that your device is being used for a botnet. Smart appliances aren't updated as reliably as personal computers (since they're "set and forget" devices), and the owner is less likely to notice if they've been hacked (because you won't notice if your thermostat is running a little slow), so they're a prime target for hackers. That's also why the graph shows the risk increases as time goes by - the manufacturer stops patching the device, but the hacker will keep trying to get in. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.89|162.158.79.89]] 17:24, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

I’m going to give them an update they can’t refuse

Is it just me or is it strange that the older the device is the better the case? I just do not understand the graph and the explanation as it is now, does not make sense to me. In case it is just me that fails to understand it, then the explanation is still not good enough... Because: "Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb." :D --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:26, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
:It seems to me that you need to look at the area on either side of the curve. So, if a device is 10 years old, the section on the "worst case" side of the curve is larger. Therefore, it is more likely that your device is to be compromised. --[[User:Detroitwilly|Detroitwilly]] ([[User talk:Detroitwilly|talk]]) 19:38, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
::I somewhat disagree. I don't think that it's a discrete best-case, worst-case only problem that's divided by the line, rather that it becomes so unlikely that there will be people protecting you, the best case scenario would be having your thing part of an organized crime. It's simple so unlikely that you're being protected, that having a hacked device is the best scenario. Perhaps there is some worse, unseen scenario that is so bad that having a hacked device is better in comparison. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.211.244|172.68.211.244]] 20:12, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
:::It's referring to how, the older the device gets, the less likely it is the manufacturer is still maintaining it and keeping it working.
:::In that scenario, having your device be part of a botnet eventually becomes the best-case scenario, as the hackers would be providing the "support" and updates you need to keep the device working, as per the title text.
:::The curve indicates that the older the device gets, the more likely it is it would be considered a best-case scenario for the device to be part of a botnet, for the aforementioned reasons. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 06:46, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1697: Intervocalic Fortition

2018-03-10T17:00:49Z

162.158.126.76:

The idea, stated in the alt-text, that "meh" was created by writers of "The Simpsons", is incorrect. "The Simpsons", however, was responsible for widely popularizing it. See [http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2013/09/06/meh_etymology_tracing_the_yiddish_word_from_leo_rosten_to_auden_to_the_simpsons.html] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meh] [[User:Dubaaron|Dubaaron]] ([[User talk:Dubaaron|talk]]) 04:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:Is it really saying that ''The Simpsons'' created the word? All it says is that it introduced the word, which does not seem to imply that it didn't exist before. If I introduce a friend of mine to another person, I most likely did not just create that other person, and there is no reason to believe that it should be any different for words.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 13:24, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::I don't think that "writers on The Simpsons decided to mess with future linguists" means "writers of The Simpsons introduced the word". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 14:25, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::: " Writers on The Simpsons decided to mess with future linguists '''by introducing the word 'meh.''''" Reading comprehension. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 17:00, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

"The" ends in a lax vowel, and it's the most ubiquitous word in the language, so that rule is wrong. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.10|108.162.221.10]] 04:45, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

: I've always seen "lax vowel" referring to full (unreduced) vowels. When unstressed, the vowel in "the" is reduced (/ðə/), and when stressed it's tense (/ði:/). [[Special:Contributions/188.114.109.66|188.114.109.66]] 05:08, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

:: Furthermore, the lax vowel is only used if 'the' is followed by another syllable, and so the utterance will not be lax-vowel-final. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.219}}

::: How does that matter? The rule as stated was about the ending of words, not of utterances. [[User:Huttarl|Huttarl]] ([[User talk:Huttarl|talk]]) 19:21, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

::::Rules exists in reality, not as statements made by mathematicians or Randall. The actual rule is '' English doesn't allow utterances to end in a lax vowel''. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 22:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

::::: But isn't "meh" an utterance in and of itself, and therefore a violation of that rule anyway? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.58|173.245.54.58]] 07:45, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

::::::Truth is, as a general rule in most languages phonotactic constraints don't apply to exclamations and onomatopoeia. The lax vowel constraint however has a historical reason (mostly lengthening of vowels in word final position) but makes very little sense synchronically now that (historical) "long" and "short" vowels are very different from each other, so it may be the case that the language is evolving to allow lax vowels in final position. By the way, if we express this rule using the term "lax vowels" then yes, we have to exclude /ə/ from lax vowels because it actually appears quite often in final position (even more so in non-rhotic varieties) in words such as coda, comma, Buddha, etc. [[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.172|188.114.102.172]] 09:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

:::What the? That can't be right... {{unsigned ip|162.158.83.102}}

:Schwa doesn't distribute as a lax vowel in English. Consider, for example, that there are both tense and lax vowels (and even diphthongs) that can be reduced to schwa. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.55}}

Questions. Is this happening in (American) English? is "adverb" becoming /adferb/. Any other examples?[[User:Zeimusu|Zeimusu]] ([[User talk:Zeimusu|talk]]) 05:55, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
: I scanned some 'v' words and didn't see much. A plural of [http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000293.html dwarf] discussion; similarly wharf splits into both wharfs and wharves. 'Halving' might benefit in the sense that the 'l' is silent so it sounds like 'having' and might be more clear as 'halfing'. I've also noticed a smattering of YouTubers writing "could of/should of" instead of contracting 'have', i.e, "could've/should've". [[User:Elvenivle|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle|talk]]) 06:50, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::The pronunciation of both ''of'' and ''’ve'' is /əv/. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 13:35, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:No, I don't think this is really happening. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.77|141.101.98.77]] 11:22, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:"Adverb" doesn't have an intervocalic "v". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 14:21, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::No, but the prank as stated in the comic "V's in the middle of words" applies to "adverb". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.178|108.162.237.178]] 15:34, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, [[1677|absolutely]]. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.220|108.162.237.220]] 19:38, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, have added the comic you referenced, [[1677: Contrails]] to the explanation. :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:46, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

It's quite surprising to see Randall misusing apostrophes to form plurals (i.e. V's and F's instead of the correct Vs and Fs).  – [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.41|141.101.98.41]] 19:36, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
:That's one of those gray/grey areas where the "rules" for apostrophes aren't firmly in place. Typographically, the apostrophe is (often) used to form plurals of lower case letters ("i's" and "m's" for clarity over "is" and "ms") and this exception tends to get carried over to capital letters, numbers, and symbols though the need for insuring clarity is reduced. It becomes a matter for style manuals rather than grammar manuals: do you follow the exception -- or the exception to the exception?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.98|108.162.221.98]] 21:07, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

If they can't see through such transparent trickery, they must not be very cunning linguists. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.102|108.162.216.102]] 02:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

If one applies this pronunciation to the title of comic, it becomes "Interfocalic fortition". Could this have any real meaning in optics, between lenses and their foci? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.81.73|141.101.81.73]] 03:30, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the mock German accent angle should be mentioned? [[User:Ehusmark|EHusmark]] ([[User talk:Ehusmark|talk]]) 07:34, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
:Yes, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that in German and dutch the V is always pronounced as F. And the V sound only comes into these languages trough W, which is not called double U but double V. Since I'm not from either country I would prefer someone with more knowledge about this to make the note. But it seems relevant for the explanation to me... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
::I personally don't think it's really relevant, also given that it's not entirely true that "German and dutch the V is always pronounced as F". As for German, orthographical <v> is almost always pronounced [f] at the beginning of a word, but there are many loanwords that are exceptional in this respect, and in the middle of the word it is most often pronounced "v". As for Dutch, while many varieties have merged <v> and <f> into [f], standard Dutch has three distinct pronunciations for <f>, <v> and <w>. The last two in particular are both pronounced as "v-like" consonants: <v> is pronounced [v] and <w> is pronounced [ʋ], a sound which is kind of between English V and W, think of the way some people with a speech impediment or children may pronounce R in English. [[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.172|188.114.102.172]] 09:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the explanation, I still think it is relevant, as the idea of pronouncing V as F is not taken out of thin air by Randall, but an actual practice in more than one language. I have mentioned it, but noted that it is not always the case that V=F in those languages. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:22, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
::::Now that I re-read myself I notice I got lost in my babbles and didn't actually explain why I didn't think it was relevant: it's not so much that "V = F" may be an oversimplified statement for these languages, as you had already pointed out, but rather that when this occurs in English because of an accent it has more to do with "spelling pronunciation" using the speaker's native language's reading rules than a synchronic fortition of /v/, so to me it is a completely different process. A speaker with a Spanish accent may substitute /s/ for /z/ everywhere because Spanish simply doesn't have a voiced sibilant, that may approximately be considered as an instance of fortition, although I doubt most speakers with this substitution would be aware of the existence of these two different phonemes in English; but a speaker with a German accent would easily be able to differentiate between /v/ and /f/ (except in word-final position, where devoicing collapses the two), they just don't know that the word is supposed to have that sound and assume it should follow similar reading/spelling rules to their native language. Although now that I think about it, this is a bit of speculation about what a German learner would think, based on the phases of "phonemic awareness" I experienced in learning English (Italian is my mother tongue).
::::That said, if you thought about German accents when reading, it is at least possible that a native English speaker such as Randall might make that connection, so it might be worth a note. I also apologise, because I seem to have read your remark—out of my own fantasy, I'll admit—as though you somehow implied that this is a process akin to what goes on in those accents, while it appears you were only talking about citing the fact that mock and possibly actual German and Dutch accents result in a similar pronunciation of V-words, which is true and might constitute at least an interesting piece of trivia if not the source of Randall's idea, at least concerning the choice of sound to "fortite".
::::Now, I would write the note myself but, to be honest, I'm lazy and I haven't read up on writing and formatting practices in this Wiki and I don't really want to start at present, so I'd rather leave it to the "professionals" [[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.172|188.114.102.172]] 14:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

::::(TL;DR: you're right, a note should probably be added, I'd rather not do it myself because I don't know how) [[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.172|188.114.102.172]] 14:49, 23 June 2016 (UTC).

Someone has written as an example: ''"Luffing" instead of loving'' where it would be more correct to write lofing according to the rule of the comic... Any reason for this "error" or should it just be corrected? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
:It's a (pseudo)phonemic transcription of how the word "loving" would be pronounced if the "v" were replaced by "f" in pronunciation. "loving" has a (relatively) idiosyncratic spelling, but it is actually pronounced as "luvving" /ˈlʌvɪŋ/, replacing the V with F in writing would produce a word that would be likely to be pronounced rather like "loafing" /ˈləʊfɪŋ/. [[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.172|188.114.102.172]] 09:42, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

;Why not use ( pronounced: "yews") fortition on eferything in an interfocalic context, not just 'V's?

I.e. 'Z' becomes 'Ss' and that wierd French-sounding G sound (as in Jean luc) I can never remember the name of becomes 'sh'.

I.e. cifilissation. {{unsigned ip|108.162.244.67}}

;Worth noting inherent irony
Comic mentions to pass on the idea but not write it down, but the comic itself is written down, meaning that by sharing the joke on future linguists in the comic, the joke on future linguists is spoiled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.112|108.162.246.112]] 00:02, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

I think that the text about the simpsons is a joke. The word ending in a lax vowel that the Simpsons created is "doh". "Doh" is substituted by "meh" in order to spread even more linguistic disinformation to future linguists that stumble upon this comic. 16:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[[Special:Contributions/172.68.19.5|172.68.19.5]] 16:26, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1964: Spatial Orientation

2018-03-08T12:03:10Z

162.158.126.76:

Dunno where to put this, but Captcha is giving a deprecation notice and asking to move to reCaptcha... [https://miguelpiedrafita.com/ Miguel Piedrafita] 17:46, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Someone better make a pocket stonehenge now. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:42, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

: Aren't all those pocket whatsits running on silicon close enough?
: Gene Wirchenko genew@telus.net

I would be remiss if I didn't mention that this comic was published two weeks before the vernal equinox [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.45|162.158.62.45]] 19:20, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

I started to nerd snipe myself as I tried to figure out that latitude/earth tilt thing. I have come to the conclusion that it depends on the time of year. He would be 39 degrees on the equinoxes, 16 degrees on the summer solstice, and 52 degrees on the winter solstice. I assume this is in relation to the solar system, but I know pretty much nothing about astrophysics, and I probably worded it all wrong in the first place.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.137|172.69.70.137]] 20:54, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Is there a category for overly thinking things? If not, should we create one? [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 23:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
:I don't think there is a category, but there is a word; "nerd-sniping" [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.208|108.162.216.208]] 01:12, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
:Do you think [[1917: How to Make Friends|#1917]] would be relevant for this? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 12:03, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

1964: Spatial Orientation

2018-03-08T11:53:02Z

162.158.126.76:

{{comic
| number = 1964
| date = March 7, 2018
| title = Spatial Orientation
| image = spatial_orientation.png
| titletext = Here, if you know the number of days until the vernal equinox, I can point you to the theater using my pocket Stonehenge.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Each thing Cueball lists should have its own paragraph. Or maybe a table? If someone could clarify on the stonehenge... Also, link (more?) comics related to Cueball/Randal overthinking things. - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Location in space is always relative, as we cannot observe empty space itself and find an "absolute" location. There is so much going on in space, planets orbits and rotations etc. that it can be very hard to define an "absolute" location.

Cueball internally attempts to orient himself amidst the galatic chaos but is confused and has to restart.
It is then revealed to the reader, that some passersby were only trying to ask Cueball for directions to the theater, and he was just grossly overthinking it. (A recurring theme in xkcd. See: [[222: Small Talk|#222: Small Talk]], [[439: Thinking Ahead|#439: Thinking Ahead]], [[1643: Degrees|#1643: Degrees]]). One can imagine Cueball having his mind in astrophysics so much that he needs to calculate the angle of the road relative to the plane of the galaxy to determine which way a destination is in conversational terms.

In the title text, Cueball mentions he has a pocket Stonehenge. During the equinoxes the sun lines up with the actual Stonehenge's pillars. Assuming you were at the actual monument, armed with the date you could calculate the cardinal directions based on the sun's location relative to the pillars.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball appears to be tilted on a flat surface.]

:Cueball (thinking): I'm facing West so the Earth's spin is carrying me backward. But our orbit is carrying me forward around the Sun.
::The Sun is passing over my left shoulder. I'm at 39ºN, so I'm tilted. But wait, Earth's axis is tilted by 23º. Do I add or subtract that to get the tilt of the Solar System?
::Ok, I see the Moon. It follows the Sun's path, but is it moving toward it or away? I know it orbits counterclockwise from the North...
::My head hurts. Let me start over.

:Off-screen voice #1: He's just standing there. Hey, do you know which way the theater is or not?
:Off-screen voice #2: Let's ask someone else.

:[Caption below:]
:I spend way too much time trying to work out my orientation relative to other stuff in the universe.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]

1964: Spatial Orientation

2018-03-08T11:44:21Z

162.158.126.76:

{{comic
| number = 1964
| date = March 7, 2018
| title = Spatial Orientation
| image = spatial_orientation.png
| titletext = Here, if you know the number of days until the vernal equinox, I can point you to the theater using my pocket Stonehenge.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Each thing Cueball lists should have its own paragraph. Or maybe a table? If someone could clarify on the stonehenge... Also, link (more?) comics related to Cueball/Randal overthinking things. - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Location in space is always relative, as we cannot observe empty space itself and find an "absolute" location. There is so much going on in space, planets orbits and rotations etc. that it can be very hard to define an "absolute" location.

Cueball internally attempts to orient himself amidst the galatic chaos but is confused and has to restart.
It is then revealed to the reader, that some passersby were only trying to ask Cueball for directions to the theater, and he was just grossly overthinking it. (A recurring theme in xkcd. See: [[222: Small Talk|#222: Small Talk]], or [[1643: Degrees|#1643: Degrees]]). One can imagine Cueball having his mind in astrophysics so much that he needs to calculate the angle of the road relative to the plane of the galaxy to determine which way a destination is in conversational terms.

In the title text, Cueball mentions he has a pocket Stonehenge. During the equinoxes the sun lines up with the actual Stonehenge's pillars. Assuming you were at the actual monument, armed with the date you could calculate the cardinal directions based on the sun's location relative to the pillars.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Cueball appears to be tilted on a flat surface.]

:Cueball (thinking): I'm facing West so the Earth's spin is carrying me backward. But our orbit is carrying me forward around the Sun.
::The Sun is passing over my left shoulder. I'm at 39ºN, so I'm tilted. But wait, Earth's axis is tilted by 23º. Do I add or subtract that to get the tilt of the Solar System?
::Ok, I see the Moon. It follows the Sun's path, but is it moving toward it or away? I know it orbits counterclockwise from the North...
::My head hurts. Let me start over.

:Off-screen voice #1: He's just standing there. Hey, do you know which way the theater is or not?
:Off-screen voice #2: Let's ask someone else.

:[Caption below:]
:I spend way too much time trying to work out my orientation relative to other stuff in the universe.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]

Talk:1963: Namespace Land Rush

2018-03-05T08:35:20Z

162.158.126.76:

* Ahh, he left off '''root''' under Causing More Trouble. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 05:41, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
* I'm very disappointed he left out dotnotreplay@... --05:43, 5 March 2018 (UTC)~
* Is "gibberish name no one can pronounce" a reference to xkcd? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.64|108.162.215.64]] 05:56, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
* No '''test''' included. Frankly speaking I have seen people using '''testtest''','''testtesttesttest''', and so on, up to the maxiumn allowed character limit. [[User:Jackomatt|Jackomatt]] ([[User talk:Jackomatt|talk]]) 06:35, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
* Took me some time to type the transcript. Randall made it quite hard. [[User:QATEKLYXM|Klyxm]] ([[User talk:QATEKLYXM|talk]]) 06:38, 5 March 2018
* The thing at the bottom-right, he wrote "forward slash" but used a backslash. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 08:35, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1960: Code Golf

2018-02-26T15:56:26Z

162.158.126.76:

What's the programming language? It seems to me like a special reverse golf variant of Python, where <code>def</code> is replaced by <code>define</code>, just to make it longer. Or is there a real language with that syntax? --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.106|172.68.110.106]] 08:40, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
: Lisp/some derivatives (I'm most familiar with scheme) use <code>define<define></code> as does Slate, however both have a different syntax. Most likely, this is just pseudo-code. [[User:Baldrickk|Baldrickk]] ([[User talk:Baldrickk|talk]]) 09:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Definitely going to have to include a link to the actual longest language: Unary, which is literally just a certain length of 1s. No one actually writes in it: you write in another language and then it gets converted. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 10:48, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This might be directed at a code golfing challenge currently taking place: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/152856/write-moby-dick-approximately. The goal is to write a program that outputs a text, that is as closly as possible to moby dick, while no containing it, and of course beeing as small as possible.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.150|141.101.105.150]] 13:04, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Not sure why JSFuck is included in the explanation. Not sure how it really has any relevance here as it is not mentioned in the text and is not the programming language being used by Randall in the comic. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.94|108.162.216.94]] 13:18, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

: agreed, JSFuck is not relevant in the explanation. moved it to the discussion (see below) [[User:Thawn|Thawn]] ([[User talk:Thawn|talk]]) 13:56, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

:: Instead of {{w|Python (programming language)|Python}}, one could use {{w|JSFuck}} though, which is valid {{w|JavaScript}} code - but written with only six different characters. Even mundane variable names like `LowestDenominator` will take up hundreds, if not thousands, of bytes in JSFuck. {{unsigned|Comment Police}}

Off Topic: I just realized that statistical thermodynamics is nothing else than reverse molecule golf: The entropy of a given system is equal to the maximum score you can achieve in reverse molecule golf. [[User:Thawn|Thawn]] ([[User talk:Thawn|talk]]) 13:56, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Someone made everyone's comments monospaced. Please fix this. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.230.100|198.41.230.100]] 14:24, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
:Fixed [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.26|162.158.155.26]] 15:52, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
:They just wanted to play reverse comments golf with the comments section by making the comments take as much space as possible. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 15:56, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

271: Powers of One

2017-12-12T14:48:33Z

162.158.126.76: /* Explanation */ Moved punctuation outside of quotation marks containing "Powers of Ten".

{{comic
| number = 271
| date = June 1, 2007
| title = Powers of One
| image = powers_of_one.png
| titletext = It's kinda Zen when you think about it, if you don't think too hard.
}}

==Explanation==
This is a parody of the short documentary {{w|Powers of Ten (film)|"Powers of 10"}}, which can be found [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0 here].

As in the documentary, the comic features a man and a woman having a picnic on a blanket. In the documentary, the apparent distance from the scene, and thus the zoom level, gradually changes by a factor of ten every ten seconds (hence the name "Powers of 10": 1, 10, 100, ...). In the comic, powers of one are used. Since all powers of 1 are 1, the image doesn't change at all, showing a series of identical images.

The title text refers to the {{w|Zen}} meditation ({{w|zazen}}), in which the meditator is supposed to suspend all judgmental thinking and let thoughts pass by without eliciting them consciously and without getting involved in them.

==Transcript==
:[A sequence, presumably continuing endlessly in both directions, of identical images of a couple lying on a chequered blanket, with a picnic basket, on grass. Each image has a rule at the bottom giving measurements in meters, with the scale in terms of 1 to a particular power. The powers visible are the -1st (part), 0th-2nd, and 3rd (part).]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]

Talk:1845: State Word Map

2017-06-08T04:28:39Z

162.158.126.76:

New Hampshire and Maine are merged together? Significance? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 04:19, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
: That's weird, because there're definitely 50 words. Am I overlooking something... [[User:PvOberstein|PvOberstein]] ([[User talk:PvOberstein|talk]]) 04:22, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:: Well, there are two words assigned to the merged state. It's just that the political boundary line is missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 04:26, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
::: Oh, duh. [[User:PvOberstein|PvOberstein]] ([[User talk:PvOberstein|talk]]) 04:54, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
::::Added trivia about Randall's error. Wonder if he will spot it and correct it later?--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:10, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::The picture update here doesn't show any difference and the original picture still lacks the border line. So I've changed the trivia according to this.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:24, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::::::Now the border line has been added. But the original picture here on explain xkcd also has the line. This is really weird. Anyone who has the original picture without the border line? Else we should remove the trivia, as there is no proof... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:18, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::::The original both picture uploads never had that border. You must mix something up. I've done a new upload right now, but you have to wait maybe a few hours until this damn cloud server cache will show this. BTW: Please avoid double nested lists in the trivia section. That's a bad style ;)...--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:53, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

"The comic continues to make fun of Florida in the title text by saying that Florida searches for sex porn instead of porn, when porn is already about sex." [https://www.reddit.com/r/EarthPorn/ But is it really, though?] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.59|108.162.212.59]] 05:40, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
: Exactly - since terms like "food porn", "bacon porn" and "space porn" have started to gain popularity, the Florida approach makes more and more sense. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.66|162.158.90.66]] 07:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

The <nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>misspelling map reference is clear, but the first thing I thought of was all the conclusions in the recently published book [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AFXZ2F4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_qqqmzbRKZY0X0 Everybody Lies] about people's real opinions and desires drawn from Google data. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.107|108.162.246.107]] 06:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The word "porn" has become slightly more generic than that in informal speech. See eg. Scenery Porn on TVTropes. So, searching for "sex porn" is probably mostly redundant, but not necessarily completely so. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.148|162.158.92.148]] 13:16, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:Alas, "porn" is rather entrenched as meaning sexual, so "sex porn" is indeed pretty completely redundant. And there's enough of it that a search is unlikely to have a generic use appear in the first several pages of results, making specificity unnecessary. It's widely understood that a qualifier is required when using it generically, such as a Subreddit I know of called EarthPorn (which features beautiful landscape pictures). - NiceGuy1[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:28, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

As a non-native speaker and also someone who failed statistics: how is distinctive e.g. with the syphilis thing different from most? should this be explained more? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.160|162.158.202.160]]

"Distinctive" would indicate that it makes the state stand out from the others. If the most common cause of death in Louisiana were also one of the top 5 in most of the other states, then it would not really be distinctive in that it doesn't make Lousiana stand out from the others. If you took the list of most frequent causes of death for each state, and then removed all the causes that appeared in the "Top 10" of the other states, then the top entry for each state might (or might not) make it distinctive - for example, "eaten by an alligator". A more precise way of determining "distinctive" would be to calculate the mean and standard deviation of death rate for each cause of death across all states, and then calculate how many standard deviations each state's mean is from the national mean. The state cause that deviates the most from the national mean would be considered "distinctive" in that is an outlier in the national distribution.

Not sure if important enough to be included in official explanation, but a couple days before this comic, a map showing the most misspelled words in every state was making the rounds on Facebook, etc. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-are-most-misspelled-words-every-state-n766361 the color scheme is pretty similar, too [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.135|162.158.74.135]] 17:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)katherine

I thought an aspect of the Florida joke was a callback to the Google misspelled words map, which also featured a single state (Wisconsin) labeled with the state name instead of a word.
:It's just subtle enough that it might be. I think, though, that if it were an intended joke "Florida" would have been misspelled. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 14:58, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
:From the timing reported here, and the similarities (including pairing words with states) I'd say this comic is flat out a direct reference to the Google Trends map, blatantly making fun of it as a whole. I could see "Florida" landing in Florida being part of that. Oh, and according to the link provided above, "Wisconsin" wasn't an accidental label, it's actually their most misspelled word! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:21, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1845: State Word Map

2017-06-08T04:21:14Z

162.158.126.76:

New Hampshire and Maine are merged together? Significance? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 04:19, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
: That's weird, because there're definitely 50 words. Am I overlooking something... [[User:PvOberstein|PvOberstein]] ([[User talk:PvOberstein|talk]]) 04:22, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:: Well, there are two words assigned to the merged state. It's just that the political boundary line is missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 04:26, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
::: Oh, duh. [[User:PvOberstein|PvOberstein]] ([[User talk:PvOberstein|talk]]) 04:54, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
::::Added trivia about Randall's error. Wonder if he will spot it and correct it later?--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:10, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::The picture update here doesn't show any difference and the original picture still lacks the border line. So I've changed the trivia according to this.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:24, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::::::Now the border line has been added. But the original picture here on explain xkcd also has the line. This is really weird. Anyone who has the original picture without the border line? Else we should remove the trivia, as there is no proof... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:18, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
:::::::The original both picture uploads never had that border. You must mix something up. I've done a new upload right now, but you have to wait maybe a few hours until this damn cloud server cache will show this. BTW: Please avoid double nested lists in the trivia section. That's a bad style ;)...--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:53, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

"The comic continues to make fun of Florida in the title text by saying that Florida searches for sex porn instead of porn, when porn is already about sex." [https://www.reddit.com/r/EarthPorn/ But is it really, though?] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.59|108.162.212.59]] 05:40, 2 June 2017 (UTC)
: Exactly - since terms like "food porn", "bacon porn" and "space porn" have started to gain popularity, the Florida approach makes more and more sense. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.66|162.158.90.66]] 07:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

The <nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>misspelling map reference is clear, but the first thing I thought of was all the conclusions in the recently published book [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AFXZ2F4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_qqqmzbRKZY0X0 Everybody Lies] about people's real opinions and desires drawn from Google data. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.107|108.162.246.107]] 06:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The word "porn" has become slightly more generic than that in informal speech. See eg. Scenery Porn on TVTropes. So, searching for "sex porn" is probably mostly redundant, but not necessarily completely so. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.148|162.158.92.148]] 13:16, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

As a non-native speaker and also someone who failed statistics: how is distinctive e.g. with the syphilis thing different from most? should this be explained more? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.160|162.158.202.160]]

"Distinctive" would indicate that it makes the state stand out from the others. If the most common cause of death in Louisiana were also one of the top 5 in most of the other states, then it would not really be distinctive in that it doesn't make Lousiana stand out from the others. If you took the list of most frequent causes of death for each state, and then removed all the causes that appeared in the "Top 10" of the other states, then the top entry for each state might (or might not) make it distinctive - for example, "eaten by an alligator". A more precise way of determining "distinctive" would be to calculate the mean and standard deviation of death rate for each cause of death across all states, and then calculate how many standard deviations each state's mean is from the national mean. The state cause that deviates the most from the national mean would be considered "distinctive" in that is an outlier in the national distribution.

Not sure if important enough to be included in official explanation, but a couple days before this comic, a map showing the most misspelled words in every state was making the rounds on Facebook, etc. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-are-most-misspelled-words-every-state-n766361 the color scheme is pretty similar, too [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.135|162.158.74.135]] 17:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)katherine

I thought an aspect of the Florida joke was a callback to the Google misspelled words map, which also featured a single state (Wisconsin) labeled with the state name instead of a word.
:It's just subtle enough that it might be. I think, though, that if it were an intended joke "Florida" would have been misspelled. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 14:58, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
:From the timing reported here, and the similarities (including pairing words with states) I'd say this comic is flat out a direct reference to the Google Trends map, blatantly making fun of it as a whole. I could see "Florida" landing in Florida being part of that. Oh, and according to the link provided above, "Wisconsin" wasn't an accidental label, it's actually their most misspelled word! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:21, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1843: Opening Crawl

2017-06-08T03:55:01Z

162.158.126.76:

Rogue One has no opening crawl. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.22|141.101.98.22]] 20:30, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
:It is also a Star Wars story, i.e. not a part of the trilogy of trilogies... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:41, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

I suspect I'm not only one who would prefer reading Heir to the Empire to watching The Force Awakens. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:52, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Splinter of the Mind's Eye also contains the first EU inconsistency, with it and a comic from that same year disagreeing about whether Luke can swim. Cool to see that referenced here. -- [[User:Tempystral|Tempystral]] ([[User talk:Tempystral|talk]]) 04:43, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
:Luke can only swim in tepid water. Hence the term, ''lukewarm''. --[[User:Nialpxe|Nialpxe]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|(Arguments welcome)]]
::Bada-bum, tss [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:07, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I think with this one, people would notice straight away. An opening crawl that starts off with something about the universe, or the political situation, would work. But I think from that quote, the ''first line'' describes direct action, so the audience would be thinking something's wrong before they get into reading it. Need one that starts with setting the scene. Also, you'd need a huge amount of space if you want to film more than a couple of pages. - [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.109|162.158.154.109]] 10:04, 30 May 2017 (UTC)
:I honestly wouldn't notice. Reading the first part of 'Thrawn Trilogy' (book whose text is shown here) I reckon I would think it's a new, artistic, 'spin' on the traditional summary. I would proceed to get lost in the storyline until one woke person starts yelling 'It isn't real! They're just showing us the text from a book!'. The incident will be filmed by multiple people and get 100,000 upvotes on reddit. [[User:Themanhimself11|Themanhimself11]] ([[User talk:Themanhimself11|talk]]) 11:56, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

:They might be able to get away with the first line, although there would be some unrest. The moment the first quote shows up, though, is when most of the audience would be clued in. Of course, I wouldn't mind sitting down reading parts of a Star Wars book to a John Williams score. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 11:29, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I must say, I really like the TvTropes warning. Very useful. [[User:HisHighestMinion|HisHighestMinion]] ([[User talk:HisHighestMinion|talk]]) 10:30, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I doubt that the joke actually has anything to do with the old rumors about the Thrawn Trilogy being a source for VII-IX, the Thrawn Trilogy was more likely chosen both for it's longstanding popularity and it's stylistic similarities to the actual crawl texts. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.47|162.158.79.47]]

The joke regarding Splinter in the Mind's Eye probably has less to do with differences in style and more to do with stuff like the Luke/Leia romance subplot in Splinter (obviously written before George Lucas decided to make them twins separated at birth) and similar inconsistencies which would confuse the daylights out of a modern fan.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.47|162.158.79.47]]

Why is the text provided in the Trivia? It's already in the transcript (making this the first transcript I actually read). The only difference is the first paragraph and the last word. And I say the first paragraph should be in the transcript. It might be completely illegible, but it is unquestionably visible in the comic. As for the proposal presented in the comic, I'd say that the first spoken word would give it away. :) The first paragraph fits in well for an opening crawl, but that's it.

And what's with TVTropes? Never been there, but all I ever hear / read is complaints, people requesting not to link to it, forbidding links to it, and now, lately on here, speaking of an automatic warning. From the looks of it, said warning makes the link not work on my iPad - I just see a thin underline - and I'm kind of afraid to check on a computer now, LOL! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.16|108.162.219.16]] 12:37, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
: [[609: Tab Explosion]] - [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.179|141.101.99.179]] 14:30, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
:: Ah, thank you. LOL! Then I'm surprised people feel so strongly about the phenomenon as to require and generate warnings, :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 03:55, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

If you're not careful, clicking on a TVTropes link can eat up the better part of your day after you go down the rabbit hole. It can be as addictive (or more!) as a [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wiki%20walk]Wikiwalk! --[[User:Mwburden|mwburden]] ([[User talk:Mwburden|talk]]) 17:49, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
: Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification. I've seen that getting-sucked-in phenomenon identified for YouTube and Wikipedia, and have experienced it myself, but it seems extreme to actually warn of it, to the point of making it a part of the wiki, LOL! On YouTube it tends to be about weird videos, coining the phrase "I'm on the weird side of YouTube again." :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 03:55, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I spy a COPYRIGHT VIOLATION! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.162|141.101.107.162]] 19:51, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1846: Drone Problems

2017-06-07T04:48:11Z

162.158.126.76:

It will work for [[1207|this]], though. She might finally get some use out of it. [[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 04:21, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I wrote a short little explanation that needs a lot more. Maybe I'll add more after school.
[[User:LordFlashmeow|LordFlashmeow]] ([[User talk:LordFlashmeow|talk]]) 15:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)LordFlashmeow

There's a much simpler, if less elegant, solution in buying a Mossberg 500. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 16:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

As I read it, the drones were flying around her, in the first place, because people can't control them properly. I find the comic even funnier, reading this way.
(New here. Is the below signature the right way to sign?)
<saim>{{unsigned|Saim}}
:No. you type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> and it gives you something like this: (mine is customized) [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 23:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Wasn't there another comic where black hat builds something similar that shoots birds or squirrels or something? I can't find it now —[[User:Artyer|Artyer]] <big>([[User Talk:Artyer|talk]]<big>'''|'''</big>[[Special:Contributions/Artyer|ctb]])</big> 19:36, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
:I think you mean this one [[382: Trebuchet]], where Megan has a laser canon to shoot squirrels from the bird feeder... ;-) So in that way it fits here, as it is again Megan and Cueball. I'll link it in the description. I found it by looking at the [[:Category:Squirrels]]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:05, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I thought this was a parallel to North Korean ICBMs and US anti-missle technology... {{unsigned ip|108.162.245.226}}

I also got the impression that this was an ICBM metaphor. Note the news in recent days: [http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/29/530534854/north-korea-fires-short-range-missile-into-sea-of-japan-its-9th-launch-this-year North Korea missile launch] [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40101629 Anti-missile Launch]--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.82|108.162.245.82]] 22:12, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Maybe Cueball's problems came with him from [[1586|here]]? [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 23:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Something like the old riddle:
Why do elephants paint their toenails red?
To hide in cherry trees.
Have you ever seen an elephant in a cherry tree?
See? It works.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.166|108.162.245.166]] 04:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Ah, the classic solution in search of a problem. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.112|162.158.222.112]] 12:34, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm having a geekgasm that I was talking about the concept of an anti-drone turret in the Comment section of the Eagle comic, now here Randall does one, LOL! Synergy! Though I was talking about an automated one, :) Next step. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:48, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1844: Voting Systems

2017-06-07T04:15:32Z

162.158.126.76:

Looks like 2 of us added explanations at the same time. Someone else want to consolidate them and produce a concise explanation?
~blackhat {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.75}}

I tried merging our explanations, so there is a small improvement, but there is still some duplicated information. Plus I'm not a native english speaker, so a consolidation by a third editor would be welcome. {{unsigned ip|141.101.69.165}}

Something I don't understand about the Arrow Impossibility Theorem: In the example given, the result of the election is obviously a 3-way tie, where each candidate got exactly equal support. Surely the Arrow Impossibility Theorem doesn't complain about voting system's inability to intuitively break an exact tie? {{unsigned ip|172.68.34.58}}

:I think there is another layer of explanation here. When Cueball is discussing this - he's talking about voting for which voting system is to be chosen. The choice is Approval versus Instant Runoff - but isn't Cueball arguing about using a Condorcet method to decide WHICH voting method to choose? This is emphasised by the mouse-over text which talks about him dynamically changing his choice of ultimate candidate based on the election system chosen - which is exactly the Condorset paradox, but when applied to the selection of which voting system you want rather than the choice of candidate. Again reinforced by the discussion of "Strong Arrows theorem" which at that same meta-voting level. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.39|162.158.69.39]] 15:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

: The "exact tie" only exists because ranked-choice ballots destroy any information about ''strength'' of preference. It likely wouldn't be an exact tie with a Score voting ballot, for instance. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Generally the idea behind Arrow's Theorem is that you would get different results if you did a vote where the choices were just A or B, B or C, C or A, thus no option wins head to head against the others (Condorset Paradox). An example I recently read was economic policy, and how the options being presented can cause policy to fluctuate wildly in a democracy as the outcome depends on the options compared. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.10|108.162.249.10]] 16:01, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
:Neither Arrow's Theorem nor the joke makes any reference to Condorcet's paradox. Rather, the joke is that it shows an individual voter who apparently fails to satisfy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives independence of irrelevant alternatives]. This is one of the criteria in Arrow's theorem, and it is normally always regarded as being true of any individual's opinions, just not necessarily of the outcome of an election. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 18:38, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:For reference: both instant run-off voting (IRV) and every concorcet method fail independence of irrelevant alternatives. Some (most?) condorcet systems satisfy all other criteria of Arrow's theorem, while IRV also fails monotonicity. Approval voting satisfies both, but it is outside the scope of Arrow's theorem as it is not a ranked voting system. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 18:47, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

"Arrow's impossibility theorem states that when voters have three or more distinct alternatives (options), no ranked voting electoral system can convert the ranked preferences of individuals into a community-wide ranking." Arrow's theorem does not say that. Arrow's impossibility theorem says "When voters have three or more distinct alternatives (options), no ranked voting electoral system can convert the ranked preferences of individuals into a community-wide ranking that is complete, transitive, Pareto efficient, have universal domain, has no dictator, and independent of irrelevant alternatives." The conditions matter, and the non-dictatorship condition in particular is horrible misnamed.

"The theorem may be interpreted in a way suggesting that no matter what voting electoral system is implemented in a democracy, the resulting democratic choices are equally imperfect". No. Perfection is an absolute so things are either perfect or they are not. "Equally imperfect" is a tautology. If you are going to throw in "equally" some voting methods are manifestly closer to perfection than others, some voting methods satisfy all but one of Arrow's conditions, while others satisfy none of them.

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.21|162.158.62.21]] 18:05, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:: Quite true. Monotonicity is not desirable because it enables the kind of strategies which make Condorcet systems almost as unstable in practice as FPTP. Arrow's Theorem can be disposed of by the realization that nonmonotonicity is what makes IRV impervious to strategy. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.46|162.158.6.46]] 07:16, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

: Arrow's Theorem is based on a fundamentally flawed approach in the first place, which he realized later in life. Using ordered rankings to estimate utility is not a very good plan. Voting systems based around estimating utility directly (rated rather than ranked) are much better. It was based on economist dogma that utility can't be compared meaningfully between individuals, but interpersonal comparisons of preference are even less valid. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Totally unrelated to the discussion, but interesting that Cueball has moved from being between a black hat and a black haired women in [[1842: Anti-Drone Eagles]] to being between a White Hat and a white haired woman, two comics later, where he starts speaking in both comics. :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:09, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

For deep (but simply explained) insight into voting systems, (and why the American first past the pole system sucks), see this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PLej2SlXPEd37YwwEY7mm0WyZ8cfB1TxXa playlist of youtube videos] by CGP Grey --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:16, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

: Unfortunately he repeats incorrect statements like "IRV eliminates the spoiler effect" and obviously hasn't done honest research on it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

===GOOMHR!===
Cueball almost perfectly matches my views on voting. I think Approval is far and away the best (due to ease of implementation and low chance of paradox). Condorcet & IRV use the same ballot design, but IRV is mathematically inferior, so I don't get why anyone likes it, other than bandwagon effects. The only situation where I'd support IRV is if it were the only viable option to replace FPTP, which is unfortunately the case in many places. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 22:45, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:Frankie, the two established parties Democrats and Republicans both favor IRV over Condorcet precisely because of its mathematical biases. The 'deficiencies' of IRV tend to eliminate centrist moderates early in the process and leave the established parties in political power. IRV represents a slower change to the political status quo. [[User:Barrackar|Barrackar]] ([[User talk:Barrackar|talk]]) 07:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The larger the democracy, the less a single vote matters, regardless of the voting system. I, for one, support a return to the system of democratic city-states with annual elections. If a sizeable focal minority don't agree with their government, they can just break off and declare their area a separate city-state. Of course, this could eventually create a loose alliance of house-states or even people-states each with their individual laws and foreign policy. --[[User:Nialpxe|Nialpxe]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|(Arguments welcome)]] 02:44, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

:Obvious counter-argument: voluntarily replacing our existing structure of nations with city-states is so much '''less''' likely to happen than replacing FPTP, that it's really not worth discussing as a plausible option at this point in history. OTOH, if Trump starts WW3, all bets are off after the apocalypse. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 13:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I think this might be the first xkcd, in over 1,800 comics, that I understood literally nothing on my own. Wow. Except that this was something about voting, caught the word voting, LOL! I usually get at least a few things, and come here to fill in any gaps. Guess discussing these 4 things is particularly American, I've never heard of any of them (as a Canadian, and on an iPad where I can only see the title text here).! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.64|108.162.219.64]] 03:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC) [Hey, someone replied in the middle of my comment block! LOL! Copying my "signature"/time stamp here in the hopes of making it complete again as two separate blocks] - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
:The same with me. After reading the comic, explanation AND comments, I can't even find the joke, let alone understand it.[[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 03:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::The topic of voting systems is particularly relevant for Canadians under the current administration, because one of the major planks of their campaign platform was "ensuring that 2015 will be the last federal election conducted under the first-past-the-post voting system" (https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/electoral-reform/). Some of us consider it one of the top two or three priorities for the current term actually! [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes, I should have said "As a Quebecer". :) We don't have the luxury of voting our beliefs, we have to vote defensively to ensure we continue BEING Canadian. Any discussion of voting I hear is about THAT. :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
::Actually I find the explanation worked for me, just that there's not much joke here. As I understand it, Arrow's Theorem means there's no clear Best System, that there's no agreement or something (sorry, I didn't re-read the explanation, so I'm working from my memory or reading 2-3 days ago, LOL!). This is saying anyone who knows enough about Arrow's Theorem to embrace it will automatically be a part of it, and magically likewise fail to agree with each other (which would take embracing the theory to a ridiculous level). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:15, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

One thing I don't get: Why Condorcet can't be used on 3 or more candidates. I read a bit of the Wikipedia link about the Condorcet Paradox, okay, I see the POTENTIAL paradox, but it's not necessarily so. Sure it MAY be that 3 candidates get equal support in this way, but numerically this is so horribly unlikely I'm suprised it's not only being considered, but given such significant weight as to say it can't be used! As I understand it, using last year's election, it works like this: Trump, Hillary, and let's throw in Bernie Sanders as the third. As I'm understanding the explanation of the Condorcet Method, if a hypothetical election between Bernie and Trump would have Bernie winning (based on support? Sounds like no actual voting taking place), and a hypothetical election between Bernie and Hillary would also have Bernie winning, then Bernie is the winner. But that's 3 people, what doesn't work? And if Condorcet only works with 2 candidates, how is that not just a normal vote? The Paradox seems to say if exactly a third of voters rank Bernie over Hillary over Trump, one third says Hillary over Trump over Bernie, and the final third has Trump over Hillary over Bernie, then THAT'S the Condorcet Paradox. But that's SO specific, it's unlikely! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.64|108.162.219.64]] 03:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC) I agree. Who cares about the Condorcet winner when there is the Smith set? [[User:Barrackar|Barrackar]] ([[User talk:Barrackar|talk]]) 07:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

''To the Canadian commenter:'' have you followed the elections of the Conservative party? It looks to me like a recent large-scale use of an "non-traditional" voting system. I've heard it criticised for its complexity, but no discussion on why it was chosen.
[http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-the-2017-conservative-leadership-vote-will-work/ Description here]
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.88|162.158.126.88]] 15:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC) anothercanadiancommenter
::Nope. In addition to being a Canadian I also live in Quebec. All my political involvement is about remaining Canadian, I know nothing beyond that, LOL! We don't have the luxury of voting our beliefs (other than that one), so It seems pointless to look any further. All we can do is hope that the strongest party against separation behaves. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Barrackar, any voting system can be used on any number of candidates. However, there are a lot of voting system criteria, and no voting system will be able to satisfy all of them. Arrow's theorem implies that any system based on rankings will fail at least one of 3 important criteria, and one criteria that can never be satisfied by a ranking system is immunity from irrelevant choices (IIC). However, Approval Voting (or any general cardinal rating method) is not a ranking method, per se, and so it isn't necessarily subject to the constraints of Arrow's theorem. But choosing between different voting systems is, in itself, a form of choice, and the comic uses this to point out that the implicit ranking of systems leads to lack of immunity from irrelevant choices -- by introducing IRV, Cueball's choice changes from Approval to Condorcet (which fails IIC). Note that Approval does satisfy IIC and another important criterion, Participation (adding another vote for your favorite doesn't cause your favorite to lose), but it does fail the Majority Criterion (MC) -- it is possible that by Approving all your approved candidates, including your compromise, a candidate who is in fact preferred by a majority won't win, but will be beaten by a candidate who would lose to that candidate in a direct pairwise comparison. IRV does satisfy MC, but it fails Participation and Immunity from Irrelevant Choice, is not summable (you can't do counts in separate precincts and sum the results centrally -- you have to do a central count overall to decide which candidate to eliminate next), and its monotonicity failures can lead to unpredictably unstable results. Personally, I prefer a ratings-based method, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_judgment Majority Judgment], which is effectively a special kind of median rating that is highly resistant to strategic manipulation. But MJ can still fail Participation, so I think it would benefit from being the first stage in a [http://wiki.electorama.com/wiki/3-2-1_voting 3-2-1 voting] style approach -- use MJ with an A,B,C,D,E,F rating system, with A,B,C ratings approved and D,E,F disapproved, then take the top 3 MJ candidates as the 3-2-1 semi-finalists. Drop the least approved candidate from those 3 to get the top two semifinalists, and finally, choose the candidate who wins pairwise as the winner. There could be situations where MJ fails participation, but the participation loser would likely still be in the top three and would win both the "2" and final pairwise comparison. [[User:Araucaria|Araucaria]] ([[User talk:Araucaria|talk]]) 17:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand the example provided in the description. In what election would Sanders, Clinton, and Trump be on the same ballot? [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::Sounds like you're talking about what I said. This is why I worded it "let's throw in Bernie Sanders as the third", I needed a third candidate to explain what I was talking about, and he's the only other presidential hopeful whose name I know off the top of my head. :) I don't know WHY Bernie can't be on the same ballot - I suspect he's the same party as either Hillary or Trump, so he was competing with one of them to be the party's candidate - but his early disappearance from things last year led me to grasp that he couldn't be. (I should probably point out once again that I'm Canadian, therefore not my shindig, plus I'm proudly very politically unaware. See above comments for why). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1844: Voting Systems

2017-06-07T04:12:28Z

162.158.126.76:

Looks like 2 of us added explanations at the same time. Someone else want to consolidate them and produce a concise explanation?
~blackhat {{unsigned ip|162.158.69.75}}

I tried merging our explanations, so there is a small improvement, but there is still some duplicated information. Plus I'm not a native english speaker, so a consolidation by a third editor would be welcome. {{unsigned ip|141.101.69.165}}

Something I don't understand about the Arrow Impossibility Theorem: In the example given, the result of the election is obviously a 3-way tie, where each candidate got exactly equal support. Surely the Arrow Impossibility Theorem doesn't complain about voting system's inability to intuitively break an exact tie? {{unsigned ip|172.68.34.58}}

:I think there is another layer of explanation here. When Cueball is discussing this - he's talking about voting for which voting system is to be chosen. The choice is Approval versus Instant Runoff - but isn't Cueball arguing about using a Condorcet method to decide WHICH voting method to choose? This is emphasised by the mouse-over text which talks about him dynamically changing his choice of ultimate candidate based on the election system chosen - which is exactly the Condorset paradox, but when applied to the selection of which voting system you want rather than the choice of candidate. Again reinforced by the discussion of "Strong Arrows theorem" which at that same meta-voting level. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.39|162.158.69.39]] 15:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

: The "exact tie" only exists because ranked-choice ballots destroy any information about ''strength'' of preference. It likely wouldn't be an exact tie with a Score voting ballot, for instance. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Generally the idea behind Arrow's Theorem is that you would get different results if you did a vote where the choices were just A or B, B or C, C or A, thus no option wins head to head against the others (Condorset Paradox). An example I recently read was economic policy, and how the options being presented can cause policy to fluctuate wildly in a democracy as the outcome depends on the options compared. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.10|108.162.249.10]] 16:01, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
:Neither Arrow's Theorem nor the joke makes any reference to Condorcet's paradox. Rather, the joke is that it shows an individual voter who apparently fails to satisfy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives independence of irrelevant alternatives]. This is one of the criteria in Arrow's theorem, and it is normally always regarded as being true of any individual's opinions, just not necessarily of the outcome of an election. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 18:38, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:For reference: both instant run-off voting (IRV) and every concorcet method fail independence of irrelevant alternatives. Some (most?) condorcet systems satisfy all other criteria of Arrow's theorem, while IRV also fails monotonicity. Approval voting satisfies both, but it is outside the scope of Arrow's theorem as it is not a ranked voting system. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 18:47, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

"Arrow's impossibility theorem states that when voters have three or more distinct alternatives (options), no ranked voting electoral system can convert the ranked preferences of individuals into a community-wide ranking." Arrow's theorem does not say that. Arrow's impossibility theorem says "When voters have three or more distinct alternatives (options), no ranked voting electoral system can convert the ranked preferences of individuals into a community-wide ranking that is complete, transitive, Pareto efficient, have universal domain, has no dictator, and independent of irrelevant alternatives." The conditions matter, and the non-dictatorship condition in particular is horrible misnamed.

"The theorem may be interpreted in a way suggesting that no matter what voting electoral system is implemented in a democracy, the resulting democratic choices are equally imperfect". No. Perfection is an absolute so things are either perfect or they are not. "Equally imperfect" is a tautology. If you are going to throw in "equally" some voting methods are manifestly closer to perfection than others, some voting methods satisfy all but one of Arrow's conditions, while others satisfy none of them.

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.21|162.158.62.21]] 18:05, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:: Quite true. Monotonicity is not desirable because it enables the kind of strategies which make Condorcet systems almost as unstable in practice as FPTP. Arrow's Theorem can be disposed of by the realization that nonmonotonicity is what makes IRV impervious to strategy. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.46|162.158.6.46]] 07:16, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

: Arrow's Theorem is based on a fundamentally flawed approach in the first place, which he realized later in life. Using ordered rankings to estimate utility is not a very good plan. Voting systems based around estimating utility directly (rated rather than ranked) are much better. It was based on economist dogma that utility can't be compared meaningfully between individuals, but interpersonal comparisons of preference are even less valid. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Totally unrelated to the discussion, but interesting that Cueball has moved from being between a black hat and a black haired women in [[1842: Anti-Drone Eagles]] to being between a White Hat and a white haired woman, two comics later, where he starts speaking in both comics. :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:09, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

For deep (but simply explained) insight into voting systems, (and why the American first past the pole system sucks), see this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&list=PLej2SlXPEd37YwwEY7mm0WyZ8cfB1TxXa playlist of youtube videos] by CGP Grey --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:16, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

: Unfortunately he repeats incorrect statements like "IRV eliminates the spoiler effect" and obviously hasn't done honest research on it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.51|162.158.62.51]] 00:02, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

===GOOMHR!===
Cueball almost perfectly matches my views on voting. I think Approval is far and away the best (due to ease of implementation and low chance of paradox). Condorcet & IRV use the same ballot design, but IRV is mathematically inferior, so I don't get why anyone likes it, other than bandwagon effects. The only situation where I'd support IRV is if it were the only viable option to replace FPTP, which is unfortunately the case in many places. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 22:45, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

:Frankie, the two established parties Democrats and Republicans both favor IRV over Condorcet precisely because of its mathematical biases. The 'deficiencies' of IRV tend to eliminate centrist moderates early in the process and leave the established parties in political power. IRV represents a slower change to the political status quo. [[User:Barrackar|Barrackar]] ([[User talk:Barrackar|talk]]) 07:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The larger the democracy, the less a single vote matters, regardless of the voting system. I, for one, support a return to the system of democratic city-states with annual elections. If a sizeable focal minority don't agree with their government, they can just break off and declare their area a separate city-state. Of course, this could eventually create a loose alliance of house-states or even people-states each with their individual laws and foreign policy. --[[User:Nialpxe|Nialpxe]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|(Arguments welcome)]] 02:44, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

:Obvious counter-argument: voluntarily replacing our existing structure of nations with city-states is so much '''less''' likely to happen than replacing FPTP, that it's really not worth discussing as a plausible option at this point in history. OTOH, if Trump starts WW3, all bets are off after the apocalypse. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 13:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

I think this might be the first xkcd, in over 1,800 comics, that I understood literally nothing on my own. Wow. Except that this was something about voting, caught the word voting, LOL! I usually get at least a few things, and come here to fill in any gaps. Guess discussing these 4 things is particularly American, I've never heard of any of them (as a Canadian, and on an iPad where I can only see the title text here).! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.64|108.162.219.64]] 03:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC) [Hey, someone replied in the middle of my comment block! LOL! Copying my "signature"/time stamp here in the hopes of making it complete again as two separate blocks] - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
:The same with me. After reading the comic, explanation AND comments, I can't even find the joke, let alone understand it.[[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 03:26, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::The topic of voting systems is particularly relevant for Canadians under the current administration, because one of the major planks of their campaign platform was "ensuring that 2015 will be the last federal election conducted under the first-past-the-post voting system" (https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/electoral-reform/). Some of us consider it one of the top two or three priorities for the current term actually! [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
:::Ah, yes, I should have said "As a Quebecer". :) We don't have the luxury of voting our beliefs, we have to vote defensively to ensure we continue BEING Canadian. Any discussion of voting I hear is about THAT. :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
::Actually I find the explanation worked for me, just that there's not much joke here. As I understand it, Arrow's Theorem means there's no clear Best System, that there's no agreement or something (sorry, I didn't re-read the explanation, so I'm working from my memory or reading 2-3 days ago, LOL!). This is saying anyone who knows enough about Arrow's Theorem to embrace it will automatically be a part of it, and magically likewise fail to agree with each other (which would take embracing the theory to a ridiculous level).

One thing I don't get: Why Condorcet can't be used on 3 or more candidates. I read a bit of the Wikipedia link about the Condorcet Paradox, okay, I see the POTENTIAL paradox, but it's not necessarily so. Sure it MAY be that 3 candidates get equal support in this way, but numerically this is so horribly unlikely I'm suprised it's not only being considered, but given such significant weight as to say it can't be used! As I understand it, using last year's election, it works like this: Trump, Hillary, and let's throw in Bernie Sanders as the third. As I'm understanding the explanation of the Condorcet Method, if a hypothetical election between Bernie and Trump would have Bernie winning (based on support? Sounds like no actual voting taking place), and a hypothetical election between Bernie and Hillary would also have Bernie winning, then Bernie is the winner. But that's 3 people, what doesn't work? And if Condorcet only works with 2 candidates, how is that not just a normal vote? The Paradox seems to say if exactly a third of voters rank Bernie over Hillary over Trump, one third says Hillary over Trump over Bernie, and the final third has Trump over Hillary over Bernie, then THAT'S the Condorcet Paradox. But that's SO specific, it's unlikely! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.64|108.162.219.64]] 03:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC) I agree. Who cares about the Condorcet winner when there is the Smith set? [[User:Barrackar|Barrackar]] ([[User talk:Barrackar|talk]]) 07:35, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

''To the Canadian commenter:'' have you followed the elections of the Conservative party? It looks to me like a recent large-scale use of an "non-traditional" voting system. I've heard it criticised for its complexity, but no discussion on why it was chosen.
[http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/how-the-2017-conservative-leadership-vote-will-work/ Description here]
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.88|162.158.126.88]] 15:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC) anothercanadiancommenter
::Nope. In addition to being a Canadian I also live in Quebec. All my political involvement is about remaining Canadian, I know nothing beyond that, LOL! We don't have the luxury of voting our beliefs (other than that one), so It seems pointless to look any further. All we can do is hope that the strongest party against separation behaves. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Barrackar, any voting system can be used on any number of candidates. However, there are a lot of voting system criteria, and no voting system will be able to satisfy all of them. Arrow's theorem implies that any system based on rankings will fail at least one of 3 important criteria, and one criteria that can never be satisfied by a ranking system is immunity from irrelevant choices (IIC). However, Approval Voting (or any general cardinal rating method) is not a ranking method, per se, and so it isn't necessarily subject to the constraints of Arrow's theorem. But choosing between different voting systems is, in itself, a form of choice, and the comic uses this to point out that the implicit ranking of systems leads to lack of immunity from irrelevant choices -- by introducing IRV, Cueball's choice changes from Approval to Condorcet (which fails IIC). Note that Approval does satisfy IIC and another important criterion, Participation (adding another vote for your favorite doesn't cause your favorite to lose), but it does fail the Majority Criterion (MC) -- it is possible that by Approving all your approved candidates, including your compromise, a candidate who is in fact preferred by a majority won't win, but will be beaten by a candidate who would lose to that candidate in a direct pairwise comparison. IRV does satisfy MC, but it fails Participation and Immunity from Irrelevant Choice, is not summable (you can't do counts in separate precincts and sum the results centrally -- you have to do a central count overall to decide which candidate to eliminate next), and its monotonicity failures can lead to unpredictably unstable results. Personally, I prefer a ratings-based method, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_judgment Majority Judgment], which is effectively a special kind of median rating that is highly resistant to strategic manipulation. But MJ can still fail Participation, so I think it would benefit from being the first stage in a [http://wiki.electorama.com/wiki/3-2-1_voting 3-2-1 voting] style approach -- use MJ with an A,B,C,D,E,F rating system, with A,B,C ratings approved and D,E,F disapproved, then take the top 3 MJ candidates as the 3-2-1 semi-finalists. Drop the least approved candidate from those 3 to get the top two semifinalists, and finally, choose the candidate who wins pairwise as the winner. There could be situations where MJ fails participation, but the participation loser would likely still be in the top three and would win both the "2" and final pairwise comparison. [[User:Araucaria|Araucaria]] ([[User talk:Araucaria|talk]]) 17:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I don't understand the example provided in the description. In what election would Sanders, Clinton, and Trump be on the same ballot? [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:13, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
::Sounds like you're talking about what I said. This is why I worded it "let's throw in Bernie Sanders as the third", I needed a third candidate to explain what I was talking about, and he's the only other presidential hopeful whose name I know off the top of my head. :) I don't know WHY Bernie can't be on the same ballot - I suspect he's the same party as either Hillary or Trump, so he was competing with one of them to be the party's candidate - but his early disappearance from things last year led me to grasp that he couldn't be. (I should probably point out once again that I'm Canadian, therefore not my shindig, plus I'm proudly very politically unaware. See above comments for why). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1822: Existential Bug Reports

2017-04-12T06:17:05Z

162.158.126.76:

Could the crisis be tied to the fact that SUPPORT for the hardware is now broken, so the issue itself and the workaround may not get successfully submitted, recorded, seen, or addressed? --BigMal // [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.52|162.158.75.52]] 14:54, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

It may (or may not) be worthy of note that this mirrors 2016 Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson's workaround for global warming. When asked about it he said, "Should we take the long-term view when it comes to global warming? I think that we should. And the long-term view is that in billions of years, the sun is going to actually grow and encompass the Earth, right."
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.243|162.158.69.243]] 17:22, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
:That was also the first thought I had reading this comics, though I couldn't remember the name of the candidate ^^'. This seems to me a caricature of this "workaround". --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.88|162.158.6.88]] 08:10, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

There are workarounds for Earth being devoured by the sun. [https://qntm.org/moving Here's a few]. Five and seven seem somewhat plausible. Also, we could leave the planet. A worse problem is the heat death of the universe. [[User:DanielLC|DanielLC]] ([[User talk:DanielLC|talk]]) 19:08, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
:Put the link in the explanation, thanks. The time scale for the {{w|Heat death of the universe|heath death}} is so much longer than the lifetime of the sun, even as a White dwarf, that the suns entire lifetime compared to the time scale of the heath death is twice as small as the suns lifetime compared to the timescale of the {{w|Inflation (cosmology)|inflation period }} of the universe... So lets start by worrying about the oceans leaving in 1.1 billion years as the Sun gets too hot... ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
: Thanks for these infos and link. I asked Randall a year ago in 'What if', ''What would be the best way to enlarge Earth's orbit around the Sun in order to fight the effects of climate change?'' Now I got an answer from you guys. Thanks.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.4|162.158.150.4]] 16:35, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

It's okay, I have a super soaker. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]]
:The last panel of [[220: Philosophy]] is even used on {{w|xkcd|Wikipedia's xkcd article}} ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

"5 billion years is also far in excess of the lifespan of humans[citation needed]", I swear, this site gets the funniest "citation needed"s.... I feel like somebody has the job of finding the most ridiculous things to require a citation for. This might beat my previous favourite, where the description declared that a baby couldn't plan or execute a heist, LOL! - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 06:17, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

== Alternative workaround for the Sun issue: stop waiting ==
Reading the title text, I couldn't help myself from thinking "Workaround: stop waiting". This is reference to Ivan Kmínek's story "Živý jste byl lepší, pane" (You were better alive, sir) which revolves around the central theme of a computer ready to initiate nuclear inferno and just waiting for the order to do so. It has some basic AI and develops it further while talking with its - or his - operator. Being childishly curious and unaware of all the consequences, one day he just decides himself, without the order being issued, to stop waiting ... Sorry for the spoiler, however I doubt anyone outside Czechoslovakia would have any opportunity to read this short story (and not many Czechs know Kmínek anyways), which is a pity, because the way it is written I consider it a masterpiece that would perfectly fit, and shine in the better half or third, between some Ray Bradbury's collected stories (while everyone knows Bradbury, right?) --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.215.102|172.68.215.102]] 07:49, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

==Spacefaring civs can manage this==
I will point out that for a spacefaring civ with a population in the quadrillions, the Earth being consumed by the sun is both preventable, not going to happen, and not an issue.

Starlifting can be used to prolong the life of the sun to trillions of years.

Further still, if humanity is still around, Earth probably won't be consumed by the sun, because it will already have been consumed by our descendents or our robotic creations.

Furthermore, by the time we're worried about this, planets won't be places to live any more than rock quarries are. Nobody today says "I'm gonna go housify this cave." Space colonies will at some point be strongly preferable to planetary cities. Constant free solar energy is a big advantage, as is the lack of fixed geography. Don't like your current asteroid? Move your colony for pennies on the dollar to another one. Your neighbors are crazy? Move to their orbital antipode.

Living on planets is for people who can't efficiently mine or farm or manufacture in space. In a billion or 5 billion (or a couple hundred) years, this won't be us. Either we will be long since dead, or long since expanded into a spaceborne civilization. Us today worrying about stars dying is like the sugar ants in your kitchen worrying about you dying and running out of food.

Talk:1820: Security Advice

2017-04-12T05:53:51Z

162.158.126.76:

Secret questions are not 2-factor authentication (2FA). They are just a really shitty password, something that you know. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 14:33, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Secret questions are more like 0-factor authentication, since they typically ask for public data. Shirluban [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 14:39, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Even when it isn't public it is often very unsecure - like: "your password has to have upper and lower case letters, numbers" and other requirements - if you forget it just enter the brand of your first car, there are about 20 likely answers (make it 40 if you need to additionally see wether or not it has been capitalized) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.46|162.158.92.46]] 15:18, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Use prime numbers in your password: this would only limit the number of possible passwords for a hacker to check.

Use special characters like & and % : this advice is thoroughly handled in https://xkcd.com/936/ Changing characters into a special one does adds just very little to the search space.
However, a video from Computerphile suggests ''inserting'' a random character somewhere in the password which might actually be rather helpful

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.211|162.158.111.211]] 14:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

:Note that if you replace any number n with the n-th prime number the security of your password would be really better. So would the length, of course. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Maybe you really should use a secure font [https://technet.microsoft.com/library/security/MS15-078 Font related bug] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.161|162.158.79.161]] 15:13, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Should the blue check mark tip be noted as only being useful on Twitter? Usually, the advice doesn't apply to emails, which are significantly more likely to ask for your less-secret account details, but also significantly less likely to have a blue check mark. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.10|162.158.2.10]] 15:15, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

"If a border guard asks to examine your laptop, you have a legal right to challenge them to a chess game for your soul.", do any of you know exactly what is the original advice here? This is probably different in different countries, but if I recall correctly you can't prevent them from seizing your device, but you are not required to provide them your passwords (but they may give you a hard time or deny your entry if you are not a citizen). Anyone can confirm this? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.22|108.162.216.22]] 15:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

The rice trick doesn't even work for wet phones. http://www.gazelle.com/thehorn/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Water-Damage-Prevention-and-Recovery.pdf [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.211|162.158.111.211]] 15:33, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

:Yeah - beat me to it! The rice trick doesn't work...not for phones or anything else for that matter. So this is double bad advice. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.39|162.158.69.39]] 16:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

::As someone who has worked with electronics, educated in electronics design, I find the most effective solution is to remove all power as quickly as possible - unplug it and remove the battery - then let it dry out. Liquid damages by allowing electricity to take paths it shouldn't. No power, no problem. Which is why I don't and will never trust any device which doesn't allow you to quickly pop out the battery (iPads and many iPhones, for example). No battery pull means risk to me. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.88|108.162.219.88]] 07:20, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Border guard - I'd like to see a bit more explanation, please, on how Ingmar Berman's film shows a man playing chess with Death, and possibly the infamous subversion of this trope in Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey. As it is, the explanation is only the ''bare bones''. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.52|172.68.34.52]] 17:35, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Checking the padlock icon in your browser is not enough to make sure you're really connected to the site you think. You have to check the domain too, to make sure you're not on a typosquatter domain (e.g. explianxkcd.com instead of explainxkcd.com). For really important thing like banking, you should check for an Extended Validation Certificate (Firefox shows the name of the organization running the website beside the padlock to indicate an EV-Certificate). This means, that the CA checked if the website operator really is who he pretends to be (and take a hefty sum of money for the process). Yeah, i know, security isn't easy. Using the brain still can't be replaced. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.160|162.158.202.160]] 20:14, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

:Extended Validation Certificate means that the CA SHOULD have checked ... {{w|Symantec}} for example didn't (and Google is punishing them for it). -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

''These two characters are often disallowed in passwords because of their relevance to SQL (a common database query language). A badly written security system using SQL could have severe bugs (and vulnerabilities) if these characters were used in a password.'' So instead of fixing the bugs, users are kindly requested/forbidden to use & and % because that would break the system? Relying on empathy instead of fixing the problem, similar to "please don't break in, we're too poor to afford a decent lock". Sounds like Black Hat in a role as security advisor could come up with. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.211|162.158.111.211]] 21:01, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
:: I once saw a funny notification at a login screen. It read: "Only log on if you are an authorized user". Hilarious... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 13:03, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
::: In reverse, for work I'm supposed to come up with a 2-factor authorization method. A simple password is one factor. I thought the second factor was easy: you also need physical access to a computer in the network. Apparently that's not "technical" enough or something, external advisors tell us that the fact that a hacker needs to physically break in to hack the system doesn't count as a second factor. (if anyone can point to an authority saying that it does I'd be very happy!) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.211|162.158.111.211]] 00:27, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

"Turing-complete kerning specification language in OpenType fonts" needs a citation. Is this just referring to the TeX language in general?

"the US banking system, where there is very little security for direct account drafts, and because of that it is advised there to keep the account number as secret as possible. In contrast, in Europe..." also needs citation. Why is giving out your bank account number more secure in Europe? I googled around a bit but couldn't find any verification of this (aside from discussions on chips vs. magnetic strips, which is a different issue).
--[[User:Tractarian|Tractarian]] ([[User talk:Tractarian|talk]]) 17:29, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

From experience, here in the UK, if I wanted someone to transfer money to me online, I just give them my account number and routing (or "sort") code. People even publish this information on websites.

Specifically, a lot of the rules here place liability on the banks for fraudulent and unauthorised transactions as long as the consumer wasn't careless or breached the rules of their account.

See https://www.directdebit.co.uk/DirectDebitExplained/pages/directdebitguarantee.aspx
https://www.chequeandcredit.co.uk/information-hub/faqs/cheque-fraud

But I can't imagine how anyone could initiate a transaction from my account without forging a document or hacking my online banking details (for electronic transfers).--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.37|162.158.111.37]] 19:33, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

:Yeah from my, Dutch, view that part also seems strange. Like "I'm not telling you my e-mail address so you can't read my e-mail". Also, anyone you ever sent money to gets to know your account number don't they? After that, can they just walk into a bank saying "Hi I'm John, account number 12345, give me $5000 please"? I'd like a comic showing my accountnumber to test how I'd be hurt by telling the whole world :) It gets stranger, in order to get a refund to my credit card I not only had to give my credit card number but the expiry date as well. I always considered the expiry date as a very simple password to prove you have the card itself. This felt more like "You wouldn't want total strangers to put money on your account, would you?" (thinking about it, maybe it's used as a "checksum"). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.211|162.158.111.211]] 22:35, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
::As a North American, around here it seems like allowing someone to know your account number potentially gives a thief a target. If they manage to somehow hack their way into your bank, they now know a valid account number to aim for. Much less suspicious than trying their luck with picking one at random. Also, when we transfer money to each other, the account number doesn't enter into it. I go to my bank's website, start an e-Transfer, and tell it to send X dollars to this email account, and I add a security question - "What's my favourite online comic?" - and the answer - "xkcd". They get the email, select what bank they want to deposit the money too (and login to their bank's website), then give the arranged or known answer to my question. Our account numbers are only used / shared with our own respective banks. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.88|108.162.219.88]] 07:20, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
:::There is nothing secure on credit card. Even the Card Security Code number is only protected by people not being allowed to store it in database. Yeah I'm sure thieves would comply with this rule. And that e-Transfer ... so, if someone intercepts that email and tells the bank it come to his email address, the bank would send the money to him? Doesn't seem safe either ; email is very insecure way to exchange data. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

::::That's why these days even credit cards have PIN numbers. And actually, e-Transfers are one of the most secure things I take part in. On both sides of the transfer (i.e. both me and the person I'm paying) we each individually have to have a login setup with our banks, one which uses our bank card number and/or account number (hence part of the reason for a North American's aversion to letting anybody know what it is), and which includes a password like any other login. So, for a person to steal money from me by transfering it out of my account, they'd need my login name (if my bank uses one) or card number or account number - whatever the bank uses to figure out who you are online, plus having to know which one they need to know. The thief can't just set up a new login attached to my account, because I already have one, and banks don't allow a duplicate account. They would also need my password. And for a person to intercept my transfer, in addition to all that (for my recipient this time) they'd also have to intercept the email - which my recipient knows to expect, usually within minutes of when the email will arrive - but also they would need to know the answer to the question I set, which would usually be information you only share with the recipient. I'm reminded of Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince, where for security all good people came up with personal security questions to confirm each-others identities. In this case it can be as simple as "Where am I right now?", which you would have discussed when arranging payment, or "Where did we meet?" or "What teacher did we both have?", stuff like that. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:53, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

"Don't click links to web sites" 
Because it is trivial to have a link display "schmoo.com" but actually send you to "dastardlyevil.com" when clicked, this is actually usable advice. If the link displays an website address, one that is correct, highlight and copy the text and paste it directly into a browser's address bar. Barring that, right click on the link, copy the hidden link address, and paste that into the address bar. Of course then you should check carefully that the copied address isn't bougus. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 00:49, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
:Usually, any software I use will show the real address in the status bar when I hover the mouse over the link. I always check if these match, and if so, I know I can feel free to click (assuming said agreeing address is one I wish to visit, of course, LOL!) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:53, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

"If the smoke detector worked according to the authentication logic it will be less likely to detect smoke, effectively lessening fire safety as compared to a single sensor one"

It'll be less likely to detect fire, but that does not necessarily mean lesser safety. There is a possibility of a "fire alarm that cried wolf" syndrome. If there is ever a real emergency, you really don't want people think "it's probably just another smoking toaster, I have time to take a quick shower and brush my teeth before I leave". --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.52|172.68.54.52]] 08:04, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
:The point here is not more safety but fewer false alarms. Similarly in rooms were you have "smoke" regularly you might either install a detector that doesn't scan for smoke but instead for heat or infrared light or you might install two smoke detectors in the far corners of a larger room, that only give an alarm if they both detect smoke. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.126|162.158.90.126]] 13:28, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
::In a two-alarm system like that, you could have a small fire break out close to one detector that, by the time it has created enough smoke to trigger the far detector and start the alarm, has grown to the point that it has now become difficult to fight, and at the very least has caused considerable damage which could have been prevented if only the first detector had "spoken up" immediately. A system that second-guesses itself is NOT good. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:53, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1816: Mispronunciation

2017-03-29T05:48:22Z

162.158.126.76:

Epitome is an interesting one for me, since I read it phonetically (same as Randal's example), and didn't figure out that "e-pi-tō-mē" and "eppy-tome" were the same word until mid to late teens. I still have to stop myself from reading it wrong when I see it on the page... [[User:Andyd273|Andyd273]] ([[User talk:Andyd273|talk]]) 15:21, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I think there's another level beyond the obvious, especially in the title text. You're pronouncing the word 'epitome' in whatever way you always have (inside your head), he's making clear that he's not saying it the way you say it.. so how do you read the comic? The sentence only makes sense if you say it aloud, but you can't because you don't know how he's pronouncing it.[[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 16:04, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
: Rereading the title text I feel like I may have suffered some kind of brain fart when writing this comment. Woops.. [[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 11:35, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitome_of_Hyperbole {{unsigned ip|172.68.54.40}}

Shouldn't there be a flap in epitome? --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.94|172.68.54.94]] 19:04, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I feel like it's relevant to point out how the mispronunciation of mispronunciation is enhanced by contrasting it with mispronounce, which is the reason that most people mispronounce mispronunciation, due to the unexpected change in how the word is pronounced between the two terms. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.10|162.158.2.10]] 20:02, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:I agree, someone who can write this into the explanation, someone better at English than me ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:36, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Epi-*Tummy*? Really? Your english-speaking people's latin is so sick. ;-) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.162|162.158.90.162]] 22:07, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
(I mean the close relationship to, say, "epitaph" is obvious, isn't it? Shouldn't they be pronounced similarly?)

"There is, however, an argument that misspelled should always be written mispelled since if it isn't mispelled, then it isn't mispelled." I'm sorry, but someone's going to have to explain that last part to me --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.133.126|172.68.133.126]] 23:06, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
:I think whoever wrote that was too focused on being clever and missed how to be clear. :) Thus displays nicely WHY Randall has all those quotes to differentiate between when he's using a word and when he's talking about it. It's been fixed now, but... Adding the missing quotes and using synonyms/explanations: "There is, however, an argument that "misspelled" should always be written "mispelled" since if it isn't [spelled incorrectly], then it isn't [being true to the meaning of the word]." - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:48, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

"Some might argue that misspelled is the one word which should always be misspelled intentionally". And others might argue that it already is. :-) [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 12:58, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

And I guess he has trouble reading the word "dyslexia"? :-) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.100|162.158.222.100]] 15:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1812: Onboarding

2017-03-22T04:48:14Z

162.158.126.76:

Uff, Americans really say "carbon-neutral". Taking this literally and there is no greenhouse problem, only some black dirt... Nevertheless bismuth is an important element in electronics, not only IBM.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 08:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

:Given that this is Beret Guy, it doesn't have to mean solder. It's entirely possible one of his mysterious shops has sold him a generator that burns bismuth powder or something; in which case "produces bismuth" would really mean releasing it into the atmosphere in the same was most power plants release carbon. Or some kind of nuclear process that does actually produce bismuth. Or maybe someone's told him to use a server once then recycle it, and due to not knowing what they're doing the recycling team has ended up with a massive surplus of one metal. All crazy options, but this is a guy who's plumbed soup into the electrical system, so… who knows? -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.187|162.158.154.187]] 13:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
::Carbon is a solid like bismuth. No power plant releases carbon, this American inaccuracy about "carbon-neutral" is part of the joke because "carbon-'''dioxide'''-neutral" would be correct. More on bismuth see below.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 03:47, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Considering Beret Guy has shown that he was able to [[1293: Job Interview|get soup from an electric outlet]], maybe those all-digital restrooms are actually able to digitize bodily waste to dispose of it easily.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.22|141.101.88.22]] 08:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Digital Restrooms - no pipes.
You have to move the wase by hand, and a hand has fingers == digits? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.233|162.158.91.233]] 10:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
: Is it just me? Digital restrooms with no pipes together with the mention of cursed WiFi did remind me of those tubes the internet is made of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes]... ;-) --[[User:Felis Catus|Felis Catus]] ([[User talk:Felis Catus|talk]]) 11:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:: Yes, that was my reaction also. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.10|108.162.222.10]] 11:38, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Lin-Manuel Miranda did some skits on PBS's The Electric Company. I suspect that is the reference to the mistake. 00:53, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

;Bismuth?
Might this be over complicating things a bit? Carbon is an element. Bismuth is another element, albeit a more improbable one.

That may be the only joke: they have no carbon footprint but instead spew massive amounts of bismuth, which what?

To suggest this is a joke about nuclear reactor technology or (very old) mainframe assembly technology seems to be a stretch. 14:20, 17 March 2017 (UTC) Skeptic

I'm inclined to agree with Skeptic; I actually think the sole point of using bismuth might have been to make the horrible pun in the alt-text. 15:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC) CGH

Antimony is used as a replacement for lead in common solder. Bismuth is used in low temperature solder. I have some coils of it somewhere on the desk here. (It's tough soldering to LEDs on star boards!) [[User:ExternalMonolog|ExternalMonolog]] ([[User talk:ExternalMonolog|talk]]) 14:35, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

TBH I was wondering if the bismuth/business joke was also a slight reference to Steven Universe, since the comic Hoverboard would indicate Randall is familiar with the show.{{unsigned ip|108.162.246.185}}
: I read bismuth as a pun on bi-monthly (or bi-month) for short. Most teams within a business will have a regular meeting every week or fortnight - the latter happening (typically) twice a month. 'Business' sounds closer, but doesn't fit so well logically for me. -- Ray

I don't think the SU connection is very likely because there's no real connection made to the show. I think that the first mention is just for the surrealism of it producing something unrelated to (and much less common than) carbon, and the second just for the pun (which, if I'm honest, probably made me laugh harder than all the actual good jokes on xkcd over the years).{{unsigned ip|162.158.155.68}}

: I actually mentioned the SU thing because that specific pun (bismuth/business) is used several times by the character Bismuth.{{unsigned ip|108.162.246.185}}

There are in fact two possibilities for the source of bismuth:
*Since 2006 in the European Union the usage of lead is restricted (see: {{w|Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive|RoHS}}). Like many other manufacturers IBM adopts this regulations on its [https://www.ibm.com/ibm/environment/products/46g3772_oct2016.pdf Baseline Environmental Requirements For Supplier Deliverables to IBM] for "Lead in solders for servers, storage and storage array systems." A common replacement is bismuth. Furthermore tin-bismuth has the advantage of its low melting point when used as solder.
*The smallest lead-bismuth cooled reactor {{w|Gen4 Energy}} would not fit into a server room. But a coal plant doesn't either so the statement needs some rework.
So both possibilities make sense but only the solder is actually in use. No such reactor is build yet, it's only a design proposal.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 03:47, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd agree with those above to remove reference to bismuth coming from mainframe solder - that would be 'extracting,' not producing. Whatever the mechanism, IMO the reasons are for the pun and ... because bismuth is [https://goo.gl/images/rTNpXJ ''stunningly beautiful!'' [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 18:59, 18 March 2017 (UTC)]

I'm amazed how far discussions can go to find the hidden meaning of a nonsensical sentence. Shirluban [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 12:27, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Shirluban, LOL! Remember, this is Beret Guy. He often mentions impossible things. I understand this to mean that something about how the server works makes it literally magically eject pieces of bismuth. And so does (presumably) Ponytail, as she predicts that metal piles up in the server room, which Beret Guy confirms. It seems pointless to try to figure out how this could realistically happen, Beret Guy is by nature unrealistic. :)

As for "carbon-neutral", it's my understanding that this is a widely accepted shortcut for the term "carbon-dioxide-neutral", just that this shortcut has the unintended side effect of leaving less intelligent people unaware that the "dioxide" is implied, and therefore thinking there's something wrong with carbon itself. I'm certain that this comic by no means is referencing carbon - the solid metal - itself. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1812: Onboarding

2017-03-22T04:38:16Z

162.158.126.76:

Uff, Americans really say "carbon-neutral". Taking this literally and there is no greenhouse problem, only some black dirt... Nevertheless bismuth is an important element in electronics, not only IBM.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 08:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

:Given that this is Beret Guy, it doesn't have to mean solder. It's entirely possible one of his mysterious shops has sold him a generator that burns bismuth powder or something; in which case "produces bismuth" would really mean releasing it into the atmosphere in the same was most power plants release carbon. Or some kind of nuclear process that does actually produce bismuth. Or maybe someone's told him to use a server once then recycle it, and due to not knowing what they're doing the recycling team has ended up with a massive surplus of one metal. All crazy options, but this is a guy who's plumbed soup into the electrical system, so… who knows? -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.187|162.158.154.187]] 13:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
::Carbon is a solid like bismuth. No power plant releases carbon, this American inaccuracy about "carbon-neutral" is part of the joke because "carbon-'''dioxide'''-neutral" would be correct. More on bismuth see below.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 03:47, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Considering Beret Guy has shown that he was able to [[1293: Job Interview|get soup from an electric outlet]], maybe those all-digital restrooms are actually able to digitize bodily waste to dispose of it easily.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.22|141.101.88.22]] 08:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Digital Restrooms - no pipes.
You have to move the wase by hand, and a hand has fingers == digits? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.233|162.158.91.233]] 10:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
: Is it just me? Digital restrooms with no pipes together with the mention of cursed WiFi did remind me of those tubes the internet is made of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes]... ;-) --[[User:Felis Catus|Felis Catus]] ([[User talk:Felis Catus|talk]]) 11:04, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:: Yes, that was my reaction also. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.10|108.162.222.10]] 11:38, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Lin-Manuel Miranda did some skits on PBS's The Electric Company. I suspect that is the reference to the mistake. 00:53, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

;Bismuth?
Might this be over complicating things a bit? Carbon is an element. Bismuth is another element, albeit a more improbable one.

That may be the only joke: they have no carbon footprint but instead spew massive amounts of bismuth, which what?

To suggest this is a joke about nuclear reactor technology or (very old) mainframe assembly technology seems to be a stretch. 14:20, 17 March 2017 (UTC) Skeptic

I'm inclined to agree with Skeptic; I actually think the sole point of using bismuth might have been to make the horrible pun in the alt-text. 15:09, 17 March 2017 (UTC) CGH

Antimony is used as a replacement for lead in common solder. Bismuth is used in low temperature solder. I have some coils of it somewhere on the desk here. (It's tough soldering to LEDs on star boards!) [[User:ExternalMonolog|ExternalMonolog]] ([[User talk:ExternalMonolog|talk]]) 14:35, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

TBH I was wondering if the bismuth/business joke was also a slight reference to Steven Universe, since the comic Hoverboard would indicate Randall is familiar with the show.{{unsigned ip|108.162.246.185}}
: I read bismuth as a pun on bi-monthly (or bi-month) for short. Most teams within a business will have a regular meeting every week or fortnight - the latter happening (typically) twice a month. 'Business' sounds closer, but doesn't fit so well logically for me. -- Ray

I don't think the SU connection is very likely because there's no real connection made to the show. I think that the first mention is just for the surrealism of it producing something unrelated to (and much less common than) carbon, and the second just for the pun (which, if I'm honest, probably made me laugh harder than all the actual good jokes on xkcd over the years).{{unsigned ip|162.158.155.68}}

: I actually mentioned the SU thing because that specific pun (bismuth/business) is used several times by the character Bismuth.{{unsigned ip|108.162.246.185}}

There are in fact two possibilities for the source of bismuth:
*Since 2006 in the European Union the usage of lead is restricted (see: {{w|Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive|RoHS}}). Like many other manufacturers IBM adopts this regulations on its [https://www.ibm.com/ibm/environment/products/46g3772_oct2016.pdf Baseline Environmental Requirements For Supplier Deliverables to IBM] for "Lead in solders for servers, storage and storage array systems." A common replacement is bismuth. Furthermore tin-bismuth has the advantage of its low melting point when used as solder.
*The smallest lead-bismuth cooled reactor {{w|Gen4 Energy}} would not fit into a server room. But a coal plant doesn't either so the statement needs some rework.
So both possibilities make sense but only the solder is actually in use. No such reactor is build yet, it's only a design proposal.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 03:47, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd agree with those above to remove reference to bismuth coming from mainframe solder - that would be 'extracting,' not producing. Whatever the mechanism, IMO the reasons are for the pun and ... because bismuth is [https://goo.gl/images/rTNpXJ ''stunningly beautiful!'' [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 18:59, 18 March 2017 (UTC)]

I'm amazed how far discussions can go to find the hidden meaning of a nonsensical sentence. Shirluban [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 12:27, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Shirluban, LOL! Remember, this is Beret Guy. He often mentions impossible things. I understand this to mean that something about how the server works makes it literally magically eject pieces of bismuth. And so does (presumably) Ponytail, as she predicts that metal piles up in the server room, which Beret Guy confirms. It seems pointless to try to figure out how this could realistically happen, Beret Guy is by nature unrealistic. :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:38, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1810: Chat Systems

2017-03-22T04:02:07Z

162.158.126.76:

"Wall (bathroom)" might be a reference to the Spaceballs movie. President Skroob is using the bathroom when he gets a video call from one of his officers. "Ahh! I told you never to call me on this wall! This is an unlisted wall!" [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.112|172.68.54.112]] 16:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:Or "Wall (bathroom)" is just a pun on "Wall (Unix)". That would explain why only these two have disambiguation, and not "Telegram" or "Peach". See also how both Walls are next to each other. Shirluban [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 11:54, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:I Believe "Wall (Bathroom)" is a reference to [https://explainxkcd.com/229 XKCD 229 - Graffiti]. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.234|173.245.50.234]] 20:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::I agree adding this in --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::Having communicated with nocturnal housemates by the method "leave a note where they will see it", it could also be a way of communicating with someone uncommunicative in your own house, alternative locations at our house being the bathroom mirror, the wall of the toilet room, and the kitchen fridge. It's possible it's not a public bathroom wall that he's referring to. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.53|108.162.250.53]] 22:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

From the explain section (User: Cosmogoblin): See [https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xpd3iggd47x51q/1810.ods this spreadsheet on Dropbox] for a list of each person in the diagram, as a basis for more complex analysis.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Man, IRC is not old. I remember using it at college in 1996... Oh, wait.{{unsigned ip|172.68.26.65}}

I'm pretty sure that says '''Wall (Unix)''', not '''Wall (Linux)'''. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.131|162.158.79.131]] 17:16, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

He left off the chat tab on wikipedia :o){{unsigned ip|172.68.86.100}}

He also left off [https://discordapp.com/ Discord]. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.160|108.162.241.160]] 23:22, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:He also also left off explain xkcd talkpages. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]]
::Just curious - has Randall ever directly referenced explainxkcd? I know that he relies on us in minor ways, and I'm sure he reads explain, but I can't recall any actual references. And I'm having great difficulty thinking of a good Google search term to check! [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 17:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Randall has no connection to this wiki but he has mentioned it in some former hidden transcripts. Look at bottom of my [[:User_talk:Dgbrt#Keep_it_compact|talk page]].--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Euler_and_Venn_diagrams.svg Humorous diagram comparing Euler and Venn diagrams]--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:06, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

To whom are the individuals unique to some sets talking to? eg those in Apache Request logs, and wall (unix) and wall (bathroom)? I suppose there is no reason to assume anyone is receiving their messages.......[[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.160|108.162.241.160]] 18:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:I'd assume that the diagram is the ways Randall communicates with people. So the person in the Apache Logs circle would be the only person he is able to reach using this method. Likely meaning that for the really big circles (like email), a person outside the circle doesn't necessarily mean they don't use email; just that Randall doesn't have their address. --(bah, I can't remember my username on here. Old laptop was left logged in) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.109|162.158.154.109]] 20:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

This seems related to #1254, and maybe #1789 as well. Randall really has a problem with his friends' bizarre methods of communicating.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.5|172.68.132.5]] 18:44, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Is the Instagram/Unix-'talk' gateway a real thing? Can't find any other mention of it. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 03:36, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

;Related comics
I've created this new section at the bottom of the explain section. Those references don't explain much but moving it to a trivia section would move this out of sight for the reader. Since many writers like to find such references this chapter groups them all together. Any suggestions? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:04, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:Related: #1305 [[User:BMB|BMB]] ([[User talk:BMB|talk]]) 08:01, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::I like this and have also found [[1305: Undocumented Feature]] and the one where Randall made such a feature. Someone else included those mentioned above. I have moved them above the table so people interested in similar comics, which many coming here are can see that we have supplied them. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I've created this new section at the bottom of the explain section. But when this is not accepted it must be moved to trivia!!!--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Well I disagree about that. This has not been the standard of this explanatin xkcd for making references to other comics. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

;Transcript
I'm thinking it may be best to do the transcript by listing each person and the circles in which they are present, possibly condensing people in identical circles with the number in parentheses. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.246.82|162.158.246.82]] 22:23, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:I'm also thinking about this. But the persons are some sticky figures like Cueball and so on; the character itself is unimportant... Important are all the "Chat Systems" and their connections together. That's not easy to transcribe.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:: I think the easiest way is to use the "mathematical approach": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mathematics) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I've done a "text approach". What's about the sticky figures, do the numbers represent anything?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I like the list of intersections, but that is part of the explanations. Have for the moment created a new section below the table. Instead text written in the transcript should only be mentioned once. I have used the order already given. Believe the transcript to be fine now, but I'm sure others will disagree... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::Explanation is why or how the intersections work. The plain list is transcript! I totally disagree on this recent massive edits.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:04, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::Only text in the comic should be written outside square brackets in transcript and only once! It must now also be very complicated for those using the transcript to "read the comc" to find all different chat systems as most of them are now mentioned many times. It will have to be changed back to only having text in the transcript and no explanations! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

A possible method to transcribe the Euler diagram might be like this. Each intersection is a column, where the systems that intersect are marked with "X". The intersections that don't exist are left out.
{| class="wikitable"
!System
! colspan=99 | Intersections
|-
| {{w|SMS}}
| X || - || X || X || X || rowspan=3 | ...
|-
| {{w|Email}}
| - || X || X || - || X
|-
| {{w|Hangouts}}
| - || - || - || X || X
|-
| colspan=99 | ...
|-
!Number of people in group
| 3 || 3 || 5 || 1 || 3 || ...
|}
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.100|162.158.222.100]] 15:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:Nice idea but hard to read (especially for impaired people). A transcript should be raw text. And the sticky figures are random, or for what do the two figures in WhatsApp stand for?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 04:18, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

;XMPP
He forgot Jabber!{{unsigned ip|198.41.242.7}}

I explained the title text and how a Euler diagram works. Please add onto my explanation. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 13:29, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:Maybe for Dummies: "...a Venn diagram for n component sets must contain all 2n hypothetically possible zones that correspond to some combination of inclusion or exclusion in each of the component sets." (Wikipedia). This here would be 224 or 16,8 million zones -- hard to paint.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks for that info. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::[https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:a18f84a6-bbd5-11e3-8030-002590d77bdd Lorenz Venn Diagram] :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:30, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

When people use bold text to make sections, then it becomes difficult to see where new discussions begins. This is not something we have used to do for a long time. Maybe it is better left out for smaller discussions like the one above here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:54, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

;Massive changes by user Kynde (OR NOT? With reply now from Kynde)
While many users worked over more than 30 hours here together user [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) needed just one hour to change everything in the explanation and the transcript. See here (everything in RED on left or right is a change):[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1810%3A_Chat_Systems&diff=137248&oldid=137211 1810: Chat Systems changes by Kynde except one other]. I'm a little bit frustrated because all my work, investigations, and edits are misused and changed. Do we need those major reworks on every comic?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:31, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:I've brought back some former agreed parts. Look at my edits here: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1810%3A_Chat_Systems&diff=137286&oldid=137277]. It's mainly trivia and transcript, and it's still incomplete because all the intersections have to be explained. Randall uses the Euler diagram NOT for the sticky figures, the intersections are important.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:39, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
::But when a third party (I) put a table together explaining the intersections, you took it out again, with the comments "Please avoid useless tables and describe the intersections" and "Do not count the sticky figures. Randall has more than 35 email contacts. The figures are only a filler!"
::I think this is a misunderstanding of the comic. The figures are not a filler at all; they are exactly what is important here. They represent people whom Randall can contact by various means. There is no other meaning to the intersections.
::The point about Randall's having more than 35 email contacts is well taken. Perhaps the individual figures represent quantity groupings. One figure means a small number of friends, two a medium number, three a large number, and five a very large number. Or perhaps this is a sample of 57 of his friends. Or perhaps this is really all the people he regularly communicates with for social reasons. But whatever the explanation, I think it's meaningful that there are more figures within the iMessage set than within the Skype set.
::I will admit to being mystified, though, by the empty intersections: iMessage with Signal, FB Messenger with non-SMS, and Twitter DM with email but not SMS. Those don't really fit my theory.
::[[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 02:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Your ''perhaps''' doesn't explain anything. And one more: Only two in WhatsApp? Really? Is email so much larger than WhatsApp? Believe me, an Euler diagram is used for showing ''relevant intersections''. And these intersections are possibly Randall specific because for example Skype is a little bit odd. SMS is a feature in Skype but that's not shown in the diagram. You may count the numbers but they are irrelevant.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 08:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:I really do not know why I keep trying to reach Dgbrt because he seems to have decided to be against anything I do. But after taking a few days off from him and explain xkcd I went back to look at my "massive edits" and found almost none. For the [[Talk:1805: Unpublished Discoveries|second time]] Dgbrt looks only on the red part in his link to my edits, not at the text or the actual changes. And for the second time the red appears because one or more paragraphs is moved or inserted. Then the existing paragraphs do not match and all becomes red. I went through all paragraphs and explained what I had done and what was changed. And it turned out that the only think I actually deleted was the incomplete reason and the first paragraph. But because I moved the incomplete reason into the explain section everything below moved down and became red. Here below is my findings to revert Dgbrts fall claims that I changed everything. And I really believe the transcript is all wrong as it is now!
#I moved the incomplete reason below the explanation section. And tried to do exactly what is said originally while mentioning what now needed updating. This made a lot of the rest red without I had changed much. This was the same the previous time you complained about red all over after my edits!
#I changed the first paragraph which was really poorly written. Also there was really no connection to Venn diagrams but it seems there had been some confusion. So instead of explaining Venn diagram in the comic I made a ref to the category and made a general example there to be used in other situations. I think this is a great idea, which probably is another point we disagree, but that is not the point here. But it made the start of the explanation easier to read without removing the possibility to understand Venn vs Euler.
#The second paragraph is mainly red because of the extra paragraph from moving incomplete: I only added this: “and [[:Category:Social networking|social networking]]”
#As I put the chat system table into a new section (which is the usually way, also making it possible to edit the table and the main explanation simultaneously) then I put in a paragraph linking to it. Here I explained shortly a few things without changing anyone’s contributions.
#The title text was only briefly mentioned, but I did not delete anything. It was the extra paragraphs again that made it red. I added the explanation from the table. Tables is often used for the main comic, and the title text is explained in the main explanation. So I did not add or change, just move two title text explanations together into one.
#Then there was the “Related comics” below the table, which is not the place for these. So I moved them up above the table, someone added a third comic and I added two more. Again I did not delete anything.
#In the table I only fixed one link and mentioned that the WC wall is the only “joke” in the main comic. And then moved the title text out of table.
#As I think you have mentioned explanations and very long descriptions should not go into the transcript. So I moved the intersection description out. I think it is important, but should maybe even down in a trivia? But definitely not be in the transcript.
#I did thus not delete anything from the transcript, but kept only the text actually written in the comic. OK I added more to the explanation in brackets, maybe too much for your taste, but again that is not a debate about my “aggressive” edit here. We also disagree on that.
#Finally I added the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/e/ef/1810_Chat_System_numbered.PNG image with character numbers] and the number of characters in the trivia. Of course you have deleted that as well? It added a way to discuss different characters and also made it clear that there where 57!
:So as you can see from this I did not really delete anything except the first paragraph. Which I mainly just rewrote. I cannot understand the idea that you should not edit a wiki because it might hurt other editors. What is the point then. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Where is TOX? He forgot about that!{{unsigned ip|172.68.62.58}}

I'm amused to note that I'm a great example of how this is Euler, not Venn: The best way to contact me is FB Message, with SMS a close second. I almost never get real emails anymore, so I don't check it much. But as the entire FB group is inside the Email group, I couldn't go in there. :) As for the current Incomplete explanation, I would say it's fairly self explanatory. For example, said FB Messenger group. We have a Ponytail, who is also in the iMessage, SMS, and Email groups, meaning that Randall can talk to her using FB messenger, iMessage, SMS, or by Email. Meanwhile the Cueball in this group is in the same groups except for iMessage, meaning Randall can talk to him using FB messenger, SMS, or by Email, in other words in the same ways as (this) Ponytail except iMessage. Going into detail listing every combination represented and what they mean seems like it would be too long and tedious (and would beg for identifying the combinations which aren't represented, which would be worse).

BTW, there used to be a Facebook App called Bathroom Wall (later changed for a short time to Bathroom Stall, because Facebook decided to forbid anything called Wall), which was an anonymous message board. Not a chat system per se, but it WAS an online communication tool. Messages were anonymous by default, but you could identify yourself through an optional nickname (much like I do here). Within a thread you could faithfully keep using the same nickname in order to maintain a conversation. I had understood THIS was what Randall meant (since it IS actually a way to communicate, unlike actual bathrooms, and is electronic, unlike actual walls). However, this app was closed years ago because it attracted fighting. People wouldn't stop, Facebook pushed the creators to do something about it, they eventually felt forced to close it. They put it into read-only mode for a while so people could salvage whatever was meaningful to them, then it was gone. The fact that it no longer exists would seem to be a vote against it being what Randall meant, except for the other clearly outdated methods on here (I miss ICQ). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 03:47, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1810: Chat Systems

2017-03-22T03:47:02Z

162.158.126.76:

"Wall (bathroom)" might be a reference to the Spaceballs movie. President Skroob is using the bathroom when he gets a video call from one of his officers. "Ahh! I told you never to call me on this wall! This is an unlisted wall!" [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.112|172.68.54.112]] 16:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:Or "Wall (bathroom)" is just a pun on "Wall (Unix)". That would explain why only these two have disambiguation, and not "Telegram" or "Peach". See also how both Walls are next to each other. Shirluban [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.106|141.101.88.106]] 11:54, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:I Believe "Wall (Bathroom)" is a reference to [https://explainxkcd.com/229 XKCD 229 - Graffiti]. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.234|173.245.50.234]] 20:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::I agree adding this in --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::Having communicated with nocturnal housemates by the method "leave a note where they will see it", it could also be a way of communicating with someone uncommunicative in your own house, alternative locations at our house being the bathroom mirror, the wall of the toilet room, and the kitchen fridge. It's possible it's not a public bathroom wall that he's referring to. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.53|108.162.250.53]] 22:05, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

From the explain section (User: Cosmogoblin): See [https://www.dropbox.com/s/8xpd3iggd47x51q/1810.ods this spreadsheet on Dropbox] for a list of each person in the diagram, as a basis for more complex analysis.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:48, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Man, IRC is not old. I remember using it at college in 1996... Oh, wait.{{unsigned ip|172.68.26.65}}

I'm pretty sure that says '''Wall (Unix)''', not '''Wall (Linux)'''. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.131|162.158.79.131]] 17:16, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

He left off the chat tab on wikipedia :o){{unsigned ip|172.68.86.100}}

He also left off [https://discordapp.com/ Discord]. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.160|108.162.241.160]] 23:22, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:He also also left off explain xkcd talkpages. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]]
::Just curious - has Randall ever directly referenced explainxkcd? I know that he relies on us in minor ways, and I'm sure he reads explain, but I can't recall any actual references. And I'm having great difficulty thinking of a good Google search term to check! [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 17:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Randall has no connection to this wiki but he has mentioned it in some former hidden transcripts. Look at bottom of my [[:User_talk:Dgbrt#Keep_it_compact|talk page]].--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:45, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Euler_and_Venn_diagrams.svg Humorous diagram comparing Euler and Venn diagrams]--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:06, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

To whom are the individuals unique to some sets talking to? eg those in Apache Request logs, and wall (unix) and wall (bathroom)? I suppose there is no reason to assume anyone is receiving their messages.......[[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.160|108.162.241.160]] 18:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:I'd assume that the diagram is the ways Randall communicates with people. So the person in the Apache Logs circle would be the only person he is able to reach using this method. Likely meaning that for the really big circles (like email), a person outside the circle doesn't necessarily mean they don't use email; just that Randall doesn't have their address. --(bah, I can't remember my username on here. Old laptop was left logged in) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.109|162.158.154.109]] 20:37, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

This seems related to #1254, and maybe #1789 as well. Randall really has a problem with his friends' bizarre methods of communicating.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.5|172.68.132.5]] 18:44, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Is the Instagram/Unix-'talk' gateway a real thing? Can't find any other mention of it. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 03:36, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

;Related comics
I've created this new section at the bottom of the explain section. Those references don't explain much but moving it to a trivia section would move this out of sight for the reader. Since many writers like to find such references this chapter groups them all together. Any suggestions? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:04, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:Related: #1305 [[User:BMB|BMB]] ([[User talk:BMB|talk]]) 08:01, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::I like this and have also found [[1305: Undocumented Feature]] and the one where Randall made such a feature. Someone else included those mentioned above. I have moved them above the table so people interested in similar comics, which many coming here are can see that we have supplied them. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I've created this new section at the bottom of the explain section. But when this is not accepted it must be moved to trivia!!!--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:06, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Well I disagree about that. This has not been the standard of this explanatin xkcd for making references to other comics. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

;Transcript
I'm thinking it may be best to do the transcript by listing each person and the circles in which they are present, possibly condensing people in identical circles with the number in parentheses. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.246.82|162.158.246.82]] 22:23, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:I'm also thinking about this. But the persons are some sticky figures like Cueball and so on; the character itself is unimportant... Important are all the "Chat Systems" and their connections together. That's not easy to transcribe.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:31, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
:: I think the easiest way is to use the "mathematical approach": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_(mathematics) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I've done a "text approach". What's about the sticky figures, do the numbers represent anything?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I like the list of intersections, but that is part of the explanations. Have for the moment created a new section below the table. Instead text written in the transcript should only be mentioned once. I have used the order already given. Believe the transcript to be fine now, but I'm sure others will disagree... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::Explanation is why or how the intersections work. The plain list is transcript! I totally disagree on this recent massive edits.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:04, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::Only text in the comic should be written outside square brackets in transcript and only once! It must now also be very complicated for those using the transcript to "read the comc" to find all different chat systems as most of them are now mentioned many times. It will have to be changed back to only having text in the transcript and no explanations! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

A possible method to transcribe the Euler diagram might be like this. Each intersection is a column, where the systems that intersect are marked with "X". The intersections that don't exist are left out.
{| class="wikitable"
!System
! colspan=99 | Intersections
|-
| {{w|SMS}}
| X || - || X || X || X || rowspan=3 | ...
|-
| {{w|Email}}
| - || X || X || - || X
|-
| {{w|Hangouts}}
| - || - || - || X || X
|-
| colspan=99 | ...
|-
!Number of people in group
| 3 || 3 || 5 || 1 || 3 || ...
|}
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.100|162.158.222.100]] 15:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:Nice idea but hard to read (especially for impaired people). A transcript should be raw text. And the sticky figures are random, or for what do the two figures in WhatsApp stand for?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 04:18, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

;XMPP
He forgot Jabber!{{unsigned ip|198.41.242.7}}

I explained the title text and how a Euler diagram works. Please add onto my explanation. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 13:29, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:Maybe for Dummies: "...a Venn diagram for n component sets must contain all 2n hypothetically possible zones that correspond to some combination of inclusion or exclusion in each of the component sets." (Wikipedia). This here would be 224 or 16,8 million zones -- hard to paint.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks for that info. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::[https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:a18f84a6-bbd5-11e3-8030-002590d77bdd Lorenz Venn Diagram] :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:30, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

When people use bold text to make sections, then it becomes difficult to see where new discussions begins. This is not something we have used to do for a long time. Maybe it is better left out for smaller discussions like the one above here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:54, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

;Massive changes by user Kynde (OR NOT? With reply now from Kynde)
While many users worked over more than 30 hours here together user [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) needed just one hour to change everything in the explanation and the transcript. See here (everything in RED on left or right is a change):[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1810%3A_Chat_Systems&diff=137248&oldid=137211 1810: Chat Systems changes by Kynde except one other]. I'm a little bit frustrated because all my work, investigations, and edits are misused and changed. Do we need those major reworks on every comic?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:31, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:I've brought back some former agreed parts. Look at my edits here: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1810%3A_Chat_Systems&diff=137286&oldid=137277]. It's mainly trivia and transcript, and it's still incomplete because all the intersections have to be explained. Randall uses the Euler diagram NOT for the sticky figures, the intersections are important.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:39, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
::But when a third party (I) put a table together explaining the intersections, you took it out again, with the comments "Please avoid useless tables and describe the intersections" and "Do not count the sticky figures. Randall has more than 35 email contacts. The figures are only a filler!"
::I think this is a misunderstanding of the comic. The figures are not a filler at all; they are exactly what is important here. They represent people whom Randall can contact by various means. There is no other meaning to the intersections.
::The point about Randall's having more than 35 email contacts is well taken. Perhaps the individual figures represent quantity groupings. One figure means a small number of friends, two a medium number, three a large number, and five a very large number. Or perhaps this is a sample of 57 of his friends. Or perhaps this is really all the people he regularly communicates with for social reasons. But whatever the explanation, I think it's meaningful that there are more figures within the iMessage set than within the Skype set.
::I will admit to being mystified, though, by the empty intersections: iMessage with Signal, FB Messenger with non-SMS, and Twitter DM with email but not SMS. Those don't really fit my theory.
::[[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 02:42, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Your ''perhaps''' doesn't explain anything. And one more: Only two in WhatsApp? Really? Is email so much larger than WhatsApp? Believe me, an Euler diagram is used for showing ''relevant intersections''. And these intersections are possibly Randall specific because for example Skype is a little bit odd. SMS is a feature in Skype but that's not shown in the diagram. You may count the numbers but they are irrelevant.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 08:58, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
:I really do not know why I keep trying to reach Dgbrt because he seems to have decided to be against anything I do. But after taking a few days off from him and explain xkcd I went back to look at my "massive edits" and found almost none. For the [[Talk:1805: Unpublished Discoveries|second time]] Dgbrt looks only on the red part in his link to my edits, not at the text or the actual changes. And for the second time the red appears because one or more paragraphs is moved or inserted. Then the existing paragraphs do not match and all becomes red. I went through all paragraphs and explained what I had done and what was changed. And it turned out that the only think I actually deleted was the incomplete reason and the first paragraph. But because I moved the incomplete reason into the explain section everything below moved down and became red. Here below is my findings to revert Dgbrts fall claims that I changed everything. And I really believe the transcript is all wrong as it is now!
#I moved the incomplete reason below the explanation section. And tried to do exactly what is said originally while mentioning what now needed updating. This made a lot of the rest red without I had changed much. This was the same the previous time you complained about red all over after my edits!
#I changed the first paragraph which was really poorly written. Also there was really no connection to Venn diagrams but it seems there had been some confusion. So instead of explaining Venn diagram in the comic I made a ref to the category and made a general example there to be used in other situations. I think this is a great idea, which probably is another point we disagree, but that is not the point here. But it made the start of the explanation easier to read without removing the possibility to understand Venn vs Euler.
#The second paragraph is mainly red because of the extra paragraph from moving incomplete: I only added this: “and [[:Category:Social networking|social networking]]”
#As I put the chat system table into a new section (which is the usually way, also making it possible to edit the table and the main explanation simultaneously) then I put in a paragraph linking to it. Here I explained shortly a few things without changing anyone’s contributions.
#The title text was only briefly mentioned, but I did not delete anything. It was the extra paragraphs again that made it red. I added the explanation from the table. Tables is often used for the main comic, and the title text is explained in the main explanation. So I did not add or change, just move two title text explanations together into one.
#Then there was the “Related comics” below the table, which is not the place for these. So I moved them up above the table, someone added a third comic and I added two more. Again I did not delete anything.
#In the table I only fixed one link and mentioned that the WC wall is the only “joke” in the main comic. And then moved the title text out of table.
#As I think you have mentioned explanations and very long descriptions should not go into the transcript. So I moved the intersection description out. I think it is important, but should maybe even down in a trivia? But definitely not be in the transcript.
#I did thus not delete anything from the transcript, but kept only the text actually written in the comic. OK I added more to the explanation in brackets, maybe too much for your taste, but again that is not a debate about my “aggressive” edit here. We also disagree on that.
#Finally I added the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/e/ef/1810_Chat_System_numbered.PNG image with character numbers] and the number of characters in the trivia. Of course you have deleted that as well? It added a way to discuss different characters and also made it clear that there where 57!
:So as you can see from this I did not really delete anything except the first paragraph. Which I mainly just rewrote. I cannot understand the idea that you should not edit a wiki because it might hurt other editors. What is the point then. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:20, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Where is TOX? He forgot about that!{{unsigned ip|172.68.62.58}}

I'm amused to note that I'm a great example of how this is Euler, not Venn: The best way to contact me is FB Message, with SMS a close second. I almost never get real emails anymore, so I don't check it much. But as the entire FB group is inside the Email group, I couldn't go in there. :)

BTW, there used to be a Facebook App called Bathroom Wall (later changed for a short time to Bathroom Stall, because Facebook decided to forbid anything called Wall), which was an anonymous message board. Not a chat system per se, but it WAS an online communication tool. Messages were anonymous by default, but you could identify yourself through an optional nickname (much like I do here). Within a thread you could faithfully keep using the same nickname in order to maintain a conversation. I had understood THIS was what Randall meant (since it IS actually a way to communicate, unlike actual bathrooms, and is electronic, unlike actual walls). However, this app was closed years ago because it attracted fighting. People wouldn't stop, Facebook pushed the creators to do something about it, they eventually felt forced to close it. They put it into read-only mode for a while so people could salvage whatever was meaningful to them, then it was gone. The fact that it no longer exists would seem to be a vote against it being what Randall meant, except for the other clearly outdated methods on here (I miss ICQ). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 03:47, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1806: Borrow Your Laptop

2017-03-08T05:54:23Z

162.158.126.76:

One assumes this is a software development environment or similar

{|
!Statement
!Explanation
|-
|Oh, just hit both shift keys to change over to QWERTY.
| Likely has keyboard in DVORAK
|-
|Caps lock is control. And spacebar is capslock.
| Changing Caps Lock to a "more useful" key is common. However to change an even larger key to be capslock (Space) is odd
|-
|And two-finger scroll moves through time instead of space.
|Two finger scrolling is often used to move through a document or application on a mousepad or touchscreen device - this could be seen as moving through space (despite the cursor not actually being real). Randall is presumerably making a comment re: Space Time continuum or similar?
|-
|Once I've used a computer for a while no one else will ever use it again.
|It is unlikely that any user who tries using a computer configured like this would be expecting it and would find the workflow very hard - they are unlikely to ask again to use Cueball's computer
|}
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.197|141.101.99.197]] 07:55, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Just a minor point QWERTY is not the standard "Roman" keyboard but "English" as "French" is AZERTY and German is something else. The other thing is that just the change from US to UK can really mess things up, $>£ is trivial as @ not only moves, but the symbol keys all seem to do different things. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 08:58, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:Yeah, in the UK I often have to use a Windows box misconfigured as US, where @ is in the wrong place. At work, one had a postit note explaining how to get the @ symbol, until I spent all of 5 seconds fixing it. Worse though is Apple, who insist on using US keyboard layout even in the UK. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 09:24, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
::Have tried to change this. I have a keyboard that has qwerty at the top, but it is not English as we have letters not used in the English language (ÆØÅ) which moved all kinds of other keys around. So we can type on an English qwerty keyboard, but not find all the special keys. The layout is though still called qwerty, albeit the Danish version. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:40, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the impossibility of changing from DVORAK to QWERTY by pressing both shift keys, seeing as most laptops have hardware keyboards.
unless he has somehow rigged a voltronesque keyboard or he has a touchscreen keyboard or an onscreen one.
[[User:Dudeonyx|Dudeonyx]] ([[User talk:Dudeonyx|talk]]) 09:20, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
: Dvorak users typically just change the keymap. Since it's designed for touch typing,there's no real point to lettering on the keys [[User:Luckykaa|Luckykaa]] ([[User talk:Luckykaa|talk]]) 09:36, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
::(Wrote this before Luckykaa posted but had an edit conflict with him so only replies to the first comment here:)
::The keyboard is probably QWERTY but the keys assigned to these are in the dvorak layout. If Cueball can type ten fingered dvorak blindly then it is no concern for him that the keys would give a different letter than what is on the keys! See other dvorak comics as referenced in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:40, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

The part "The next point on the list makes little sense" is not exactly true. Swapping caps lock with ctrl is actually quite common (if extravagant), google it. Some do it because they are used to some old layout (probably either pre-PC era or from the Unix world, see some Sun keyboards from the 90s). Most do it because ctrl is useful but small (especially on laptops), while caps lock is a large, rarely used key. Opinions on the ergonomy of this vary, trending towards negative, although there certainly are avid supporters.

So, the line actually starts like something you may actually hear in real life (I know I have). And then you get to... SPACE?!? Why would you turn space into a caps lock?! That's where the joke hits. It's not that the whole point of the list makes little sense, it's that it takes an existing, somewhat justified but controversial idea and turns it on its head midway through. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.76|162.158.102.76]] 09:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:Is that not also what is made clear in the explanation now? It is not the only joke with the last being the scroll time travel. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:40, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Apple has a feature actually called time machine to go back to old file versions. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.62|162.158.88.62]] 12:00, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

I can only imagine the mouse wheel. I use a free spinner, so it sounds fun... And something to get my machine to hate me
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 13:59, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Sounds like my laptop. Because I primarily use the nipple as a pointer,and the trackpad is in a good position for the thumb, I changed the trackpad to be a scrollpad, so it doesn't move the cursor, it moves content. I have given up on trying to explain the setup, they always end up just scrolling around on the screen and tapping the trackpad like it was a mouse-button.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.70|162.158.114.70]] 15:03, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Any chance that "spacebar is caps lock" is a reference to [[1172: Workflow]]? [[User:Tkil|Tkil]] ([[User talk:Tkil|talk]]) 16:38, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:NO.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 01:20, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Older computer users will recall that before the introduction of the (now standard) 101-key keyboard, it was quite common for the Ctrl key to be immediately to the left of the A key, where Caps Lock is now. Touch typists from the 70's or 80's had a hard time converting to the new placement; I personally rewired the first 101-key keyboard I got to put Ctrl back "where it belonged". (This was long before keyboard remapping software was a thing.) [[User:Mr. I|Mr. I]] ([[User talk:Mr. I|talk]]) 16:47, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:Focus on this comic. There is no 70's or 80's keyboard.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 01:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

;Cueball is NOT Randall
Randall writes comics -- not an autobiography! So unless there is a strong evidence Cueball is NOT Randall. Think about other comics and what Randall all must have been done. Or does anyone really have a proof??? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 01:16, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:I believe any time the caption text is written in first-person it is assumed that Randall is talking about himself. In that case, Cueball here would be a stand-in for Randall, albeit taken to the extreme.--[[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.83|172.68.142.83]] 01:48, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::The caption is a -- often exaggerated -- statement by Randall. But this still does NOT mean that Cueball is Randall! The caption doesn't "reveal" this.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Dgbrt, this has been the norm on explain xkcd for a long time, to say that Randall is talking in the caption as when he talks about his hobbies. No one thinks he does these things as in the comics, but for sure he will make adjustments to his laptop that suits him and probably not everyone else. As he says in the title text he still cannot get the programs to function with the "time scroll" so of course he has not implemented this. The comic is exaggerating what Randall does, or at least pretends to do. So of course it should say that it is Randall who writes the caption and thus Cueball represent the "comic" version of Randall here. So I (and at least one other) completely disagree with you also here! So conclusion:
:::'''Cueball IS Randall''' --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:11, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I amend my statement, after reading the new version, saw this comment first. Randall says the caption but Cueball is not a direct stand in for Randall in this comic. I have deleted the "stand in" comment. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:36, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::I recognize this as a first hint of learning...--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:51, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::And I recognize that you keep writing to me (and others) in a condescending manner and it really bothers me! For the record I did not write most of the "lengthy" (your opinion) explanation which your incomplete reason really trashed, so that must have hit several of the editors, not just me. But not all read these comments for sure. I'm very tired of the way you act at the moment! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Calm down. You are seeing things that are not there.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::::It sure doesn't fell that way for me personally. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

;Keyboard layout
Re: Information text "Everything is senseless -- who changes the keyboard layout without changing the keyboard itself? Typing blindly is just a guess but not shown in the comic."
This is a bit harsh wording. There are many of us who routinely switch keyboard layouts without changing the keyboard. I am Swedish, living in Ireland so Irish/British keyboards are the norm. Now and then I need write text in Swedish. As I learned touch typing in Sweden, that layout is engrained in my spine so typing blindly is not a problem. I have many friends here who do the same when they need to write something in their native language, be it French, Russian, etc. / Sven Rosvall {{unsigned ip|162.158.38.16}}
:I agree, first reaction I had to "who changes the keyboard layout without changing the keyboard itself?" was "I do". When I was doing maintenance for a company in Belgium I temporarily switched to the qwerty layout while using their azerty keyboards. And occasionally at home I switch between different qwerty layouts because some software doesn't work properly on US-international. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 14:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks for your replies. And I didn't expect a positive one because mostly those people stay quiet. So again my opinion:
::*There is no DVORAK mentioned in this comic. We only know that the initial layout is not QWERTY. DVORAK is only one of many possibilities and thus it belongs only to a trivia section.
::*Pressing both SHIFT-keys simultaneously triggers nothing in any common OS. It's only a modifier key, not distinguishable, and requires an other key for action. This really requires a special software probably written by Cueball himself.
::*There is no hint that Cueball is on work outside of his country (this comic is the US) so merely we can assume it's his private laptop and he is just a computer NERD.
::I don't like overwhelming explanations on things not shown in the comic while some essentials are still missing. And look above: Cueball is NOT Randall.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:04, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:::I agree with the above disagreements to you Dgbrt. I also sometimes switch to UK keyboard even though I'm on a Danish computer. And this explanation goes out to all countries not just the US (as you would now being from Germany?) Of course Cueball's PC is english. And of course since Randall repeatedly references Dvorak (as early as earlier this year) it is a really sound conclusion that Cueball uses Dvorak (and yes that is not what Randall is likely to do). But see above of course Cueball represents Randall here. Maybe it is just you who has this opinion on what to explain, and also mainly you who writes harsh things about other peoples wiki edits. Take a break, you are not the only one editing these pages, and neither is I! The above comments seems to suggest that you are alone on this crusade! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:17, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Have updated incomplete reason to refer to discussion to keep the tone more sober! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:36, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::I am on a crusade??? Sorry, I just try to keep the explanations explaining the comics content. If anyone sees a hint to DVORAK keyboards (!!!) at this comic please help me. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:00, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
::::I'm inclined to side with Dgbrt here. This explanation is already horribly verbose for such a simple comic, and majority of the largest paragraph being dedicated to something that is not even explicitly mentioned is just too much. I agree DVORAK is probably what was crossing Randallps mind while writing it, but that does not make it relevant, the joke stays exactly the same whether they are talking about DVORAK, AZERTY, or classical Chinese for that matter. Remember the foremost point of this page is to explain the comic, not to gather as much information to one place as possible. Just explain the joke and maybe provide a link to the wiki article about DVORAK for those who wish to learn more about it, don't make people who just came to understand the joke read through walls of unnecessary information. Just my two cents. [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]] ([[User talk:Jaalenja|talk]]) 17:45, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
:::::Thanks [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]], I'm sure we both are not the only one who thinks this is horribly verbose. I will move some parts into a trivia section. BTW: Many other explanations are the same.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
::::::Or at least two... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

:Just a thank you
Just wanted to thank whoever kept and greatly improved my original revision stating that Caps Lock->Ctrl is common on *nix systems. I realize my original edit was terse but I'm stuck on mobile for the time being. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.78.46|172.68.78.46]] 07:06, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Should this page be added to Category:Dvorak? There may be a reference to it, but it can't be for sure. [[User:625571b7-aa66-4f98-ac5c-92464cfb4ed8|625571b7-aa66-4f98-ac5c-92464cfb4ed8]] ([[User talk:625571b7-aa66-4f98-ac5c-92464cfb4ed8|talk]]) 23:36, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
:There is no Dvorak in the comic.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 00:01, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

WOW lots of nastiness from Dgbrt here! A lot of which I disagree with EXCEPT verbosity. A lot of comics get overly verbose explanations - my current favourite example is 1800, about chess notation, where about 80% of the explanation should be purely deleted - and as such the focus should remain on helping people understand the comic. HOWEVER, a certain amount of leeway is required to assist such understanding, such as here with Dvorak. While it is not explicitly stated that Cueball's layout is currently set to Dvorak, past references make it likely, and I would think that Dvorak is the second-most used layout in the U.S. (and as has been stated, I think by Dgbrt, this comic IS American, set in America. My general approach towards cultural differences is "When in doubt, it's American"). So it would be inappropriate to say "Cueball's computer is set to Dvorak", but it would be appropriate and advisable to say "Cueball's computer is set to another layout, most likely Dvorak".

As for the concept that pressing Shift can't do anything, try pressing Shift 8 times in a row (within about 5 seconds) on a standard installation of Windows 7 (not sure if they changed this in Windows 8 or 10). I've accidentally done this on occasion - pressing Shift then releasing it in indecision about if I want to start with a capital letter - it's the "Shortcut" to trigger an accessibility option about the shift key, I think for pressing it to toggle it on until the next key press, like on an iPad virtual keyboard. I trigger it often enough that I try to remember to do it on purpose just to turn off the shortcut. Ctrl has something similar, and one of them has something pop up when you hold it down too long (THAT might be the Shift key, it might be Ctrl that's quick presses). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1800: Chess Notation

2017-02-22T05:28:36Z

162.158.126.76:

So... This is just a really excellent pun? "Drawn" conversation?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.22|162.158.75.22]] 15:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:The pun gets better when you think about drawn '''and''' stalemated conversations, both of which will be scored 0.5 - 0.5. A stalemate occurs when no legal moves are possible, but the opponent isn't in check.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.82|162.158.150.82]] 16:26, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I have 2 questions does Randall know about this wiki and if there is an "incomplete" comic and I complete the explanation or other issue can I delete the incomplete notification thingy or does an admin have to do that?[[User:XFez|XFez]] ([[User talk:XFez|talk]]) 17:45, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:Anyone can remove the incomplete tag. Likewise, anyone can add it back again if they feel the explanation can be improved. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.225|162.158.62.225]] 18:37, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
::My answer at the last comic:
::Hi [[User:XFez|XFez]], sorry for the late reply but this was hard to find. I don't know if Randall knows..., but maybe he does. But he does NOT support this wiki in any way -- like he does not here: [http://forums.xkcd.com http://forums.xkcd.com] (while everything is now on https that board isn't ;) ). So there is no final explanation and he says 100 points! To your second question: You are allowed to remove the "incomplete tag". But the given criteria is not enough, often that simple text covers not all. Please check also the discussion page. So, when you are not sure just change the criteria text and mention it at the discussion page. And for older comics you probably should talk to someone else here because nobody checks every comic every day.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Randall knows of this page for sure. How often he goes here for a laugh is hard to say, but I would guess he would never comment on anything. But who knows if he checks here to see if has made a mistake. Sometimes errors are corrected after they get mentioned here. Often very early in Randall's time zone. Who knows if he sees this here. He has given a 100 % proof that he knows about this page in his official transcript. He actually made a direct link to Explain xkcd for a better transcript than his own. Alas there was not transcript until this year, where I made it: See this [[Payloads#Trivia|trivia]] under [[Payloads]], that I added earlier in 2017. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:45, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Isn't the mouseover text saying that it was a blunder to tell white hat that he is scoring it because that will cause white hat to actively compete, instead of simply losing because he didn't know there was a game? [a guest and fan]{{unsigned ip|141.101.107.12}}

Why is the figure on the left not wearing a beret? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.208|162.158.78.208]] 21:14, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:Because [[Beret Guy]] would never do something like this, which is basically degrading to other humans. It could have been [[Hairy]], or White Hat himself that ha d said it though. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:49, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Under the "Chess games and conversations" section, "differences" subsection, it says that "people's statements sometimes last an eternity or even longer". Eternity = infinite time, duration without beginning or end. It's impossible for a person to make a statement lasting longer than his or her lifespan, and realistically for someone to continue speaking for more than an hour or so is extremely rare (someone giving a speech or presentation, for example, which isn't the type of "conversation" we're dealing with). Is the word "eternity" being used in a hyperbolic sense? If so, I'm not sure I understand exactly what this sentence is trying to say.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.11|172.68.46.11]] 04:19, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

How did the conversation end in a draw? Was it by agreement? Was it actually "drawn" as mentioned below?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.185|162.158.79.185]] 20:17, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:"Fine." "Fine." Agreement. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.202|108.162.210.202]] 23:18, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

The move to score conversations itself was probably a blunder, but it seems that, since the sentence is copied verbatim, that the move to declare your scoring of conversations to somebody else is a blunder. Because that's weird and nobody wants to hear about it. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.72|173.245.50.72]] 18:35, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Hello all. Just pointing out that stalemate it's not one of the most common ways to draw a chess game. It's quite rare in fact. Agreement, threefold repetition, perpetual check (and maybe even insufficent material) are statisticaly more usual. Keep up the great job, Albi.--[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.52|188.114.102.52]] 09:16, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

The last part of the first section, Chess notation (and annotation), says that Cueball would score a conversation "1-0" whether he won it or lost it (depending upon who started the conversation). That is totally ambiguous; he would need more annotation to show whether he started the conversation and won it or the opposite. If I were scoring it - but I'm not a chess player - I would just score it as if I were always white, and it would be clear whether I won or not. What's the point of scoring the conversation if you can't read the score later on? He didn't say he was ''recording'' and scoring his conversations, he just said he was scoring them.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.226|108.162.237.226]] 21:10, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:I don't know if you wil be reading this, but chess games are indeed scored 1-0 for a win for white and 0-1 for a win for black. Because you *record* your (more important) chess games anyway, and the score sheets always carry the names of the white and black players. It's similar in soccer, where 2:3 is always in the format of <home team>:<away team>. If you want to know how ''you'' scored in the past, you have to convert your scores depending if you played black or not. It has been like this all the time, and will never be changed. :) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.82|162.158.150.82]] 11:59, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

HOLY CRAP HOW MUCH OF THIS PAGE IS ''ACTUALLY NECESSARY'' TO EXPLAIN THE JOKE --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.226|108.162.245.226]] 22:13, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:I came here to say just that. [[User:SuperSupermario24|Just some random derp]] 18:11, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:My immediate reaction when I was reading this. When I realized this was going to be one of THOSE, I just stopped reading (I remember the Princess Bride comic was simarly overblown, with the excuse "What if someone hasn't seen the movie?". As such a unique person, who hadn't seen it but both reads xkcd AND this explanation site, I felt an obligation to mention that the extra explanation was quite unnecessary) :) I feel the explanation here is complete as of the first title, to wit "Chess notation (and annotation)". From that title on down can happily be deleted as unnecessary, the focus switches to teaching chess and its notation, not helping people understand the comic. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

The cartoon should have had Cueball talking to Black Hat, not White Hat. Since Cueball makes the first move in the conversation, by chess rules he would have been playing as White. Having Black Hat play as Black in chess would not only be more color-coordinated, it would be more appropriate for him to say "I don't know or care what that means" than it would be for Black Hat. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.160|162.158.75.160]] 20:39, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
:Wow, yeah. Missed opportunity. That dismissive comment did seem quite characteristic of Black Hat. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

it feels noteworthy that 4 days before this comic, an episode of Scorpion aired which was heavily about competitive chess. Whether it's noteworthy or merely strange coincidence hinges on whether or not Randall watches that show. :) (which seems quite plausible, considering this comic is often about highly intelligent scientific thought, and that show attempts to depict the same) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Talk:1793: Soda Sugar Comparisons

2017-02-08T05:18:46Z

162.158.126.76:

'''Attention:''' There came a '''new [[what if?]]''', ''{{what if|153|Hide the Atmosphere}}'' out two days ago (after almost 15 weeks since the last). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:50, 1 February 2017 (UTC)


And that's why I don't really drink soda. [[User:Cardboardmech|Cardboardmech]] ([[User talk:Cardboardmech|talk]]) 06:30, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:...sadly, coke zero costs as much as normal coke, despite one having 0% sugar, and thus, give the body zero energy. No financial incentive to switch. :D --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.76|162.158.150.76]] 10:52, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:The problem is that juice (like orange-juice) has not that much less sugar – and if you drink not pure juice, it can has more. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 15:16, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:: That's why I drink diet coke. You stay slim and can find your children in the dark ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:10, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Stellar work from [[User:Schroduck|Schroduck]] but can we get a better idea of the calories in a candy counter. We're looking at approx 3000 candy bars (a catering box holds 48 bars, is designed to be usable for display and about 2 bars wide) ballpark figures though so not adding the edit yet, but 3 tiers of boxes would be about right [[User:Luckykaa|Luckykaa]] ([[User talk:Luckykaa|talk]]) 09:26, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks! I did a bit of digging, and updated the data. It looks like it significantly overestimates the sugar (''if'' the display only holds chocolate/candy and not, say, sugar-free gum). [[User:Schroduck|Schroduck]] ([[User talk:Schroduck|talk]]) 11:56, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:: Maybe this is an English term? But I would have thought that a candy counter was for regular candy to fill in bags for instance and not only Mars bar type of candy if any such chocolate bars would be there at all?--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:10, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
::: Seeing as Randall refers to it as a "Convenience Store Counter", I understand it to mean a standard convenience store counter, LOL! Which would usually have one or two registers, depending on the size of the store. Which is to say, from the counter holding the registers down to the floor are boxes of every kind of chocolate bar they care to stock, plus gum and at times even said Creme Eggs. Bars such as Snickers, Mounds, Coffee Crisp, O Henry, Mr. Big, etc. etc. A counter this size would have to have every candy bar sold in North America, and some multiple times, in order to fill it. That said, it seems wrong to assume Mars bars. Not only do they have a more compact size - meaning more can fit - the only bar mentioned is Snickers, if any one bar is chosen it should be Snickers. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 04:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
::: This thing (though this one seems filled with gum): http://www.discountshelving.com/images/storetype/convenience/Gondola-Check-Out-Slanted-Shelves.jpg - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 04:06, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
::::The sugar content of candy doesn't massively vary from one brand to another. They are all essentially sugar (even {{w|Tic Tacs}}, which are advertised as "sugar free" are 95% sugar!), with starches and oils for texture, and trace amounts of flavouring and colour. I chose Mars bars because that was the first to come up on a search, but it wouldn't make much difference which you chose. Gums would be an exception, but then you're not meant to eat gum, so it surely shouldn't count for this purpose. [[User:Schroduck|Schroduck]] ([[User talk:Schroduck|talk]]) 15:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
::::: You're right in that content is roughly equal from bar to bar, EXCEPT, as I stated, Mars bars are smaller than the average, both meaning that more would fit (especially in a counter this size) - meaning more boxes, meaning more sugar - and their smaller size means that they may ACTUALLY have a lower content - meaning slightly lower sugar, but at this volume it adds up. Now, as these two aspects affect the final result in opposite ways, they MAY cancel out, but that can't be certain without crunching the numbers (which I am not in the mood or availability to do right now, LOL! Thank you for your devotion). Just saying, if you pick ONE bar - which is reasonable considering how much it would complicate matters to virtually "build" a realistically varied counter - the one named, Snickers, should be the first choice. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:18, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

One issue I have personally with these comparison are that it is easy to get huge numbers just by adding time. However, in this case, if you translate this into body fat it does make sense. Another tangent: Eating an orange is 9 grams of sugar according to google sources. 7 oranges per day is a lot of fruit. Throwing this out there for anyone to play with. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.214|141.101.80.214]] 11:07, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

The page mentions "Crème eggs." While this is a common autocorrect, Cadbury don't use this on their packaging. Confusingly, this appears to be the case in the USA as well, even though Hershey on its website uses it. Can someone find a citation to confirm or deny that this this is ever the correct spelling? Also, don't drink soda. Really. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.18|141.101.107.18]] 13:21, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
: You're referring to the accent, right? Even if Cadbury doesn't use the accent on the packaging (they don't, you're right), "Crème" is the correct spelling. This is a french word - the English would be "Cream", of course - and the french spelling includes the accent. Which is what makes it a frequent autocorrect, people will often skip the accent due to the difficulty of entering it, having the autocorrect provide it can be actually useful. (LOTS of french where I live, I see stuff like this a lot, LOL!). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 04:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't like how he compares the consumption of soda at a constant rate over a period of time to a grand total of candy. This could be reversed, e.g. eating 100ml of skittles a day for six months is the same as drinking 180 bottles of soda, to make it seem as though candy contains a lot of sugar in comparison to soda rather than vice versa. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.239|141.101.99.239]] 14:10, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:Yes, it's a real problem that these comparisons don't dig at the core of the problem - that carbohydrate-rich food is often junk food. You can store lots of fat for a long time, but not carbohydrates (the human stores are maxed out at +/- 1200 g for an adult male). So, apart from athletes, nobody manages to deplete these stores in the liver and the muscles. Nobody, apart from athletes, has therefore a genuine need for carbohydrate-rich food. Our consumption of carbohydrates is like refilling a car's gasoline tank even if it is 90% full.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.76|162.158.150.76]] 14:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
::You forgot that the human body can convert sugar to fat quite easily. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 15:16, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:::...which is not a reason for sugar consumption. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.76|162.158.150.76]] 16:07, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
::::"Reason for sugar consumption" is like needing a motive for a sexually-based crime. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.219|162.158.74.219]] 18:21, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::So you are saying that you do not need a motive before committing a sex crime! ;-p --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:04, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::''awaits increase in sex crimes'' [[User:Cardboardmech|Cardboardmech]] ([[User talk:Cardboardmech|talk]]) 04:26, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I never would have thought of it like that. xD --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 18:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

I know they don't sell Skittles in gallon-sized containers (as far as I know, anyway), but seeing that picture makes me want to try the gallon-Skittle challenge. I bet it would take about five minutes... Who's with me? [[User:Mathmannix|Mathmannix]] ([[User talk:Mathmannix|talk]]) 19:09, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
:I'd bet you couldn't do it in five. [[User:Cardboardmech|Cardboardmech]] ([[User talk:Cardboardmech|talk]]) 04:26, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

That box at the right end of the candy counter probably contains waxed paper or bags for loose candy.
[[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 21:05, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
: I have NEVER seen a convenience store provide wax paper or candy bags, partially because I've never seen one sell loose candy, LOL! Only pre-packaged / wrapped chocolate bars, like the named Snickers or Mars bars. i've only seen such things in the rare candy store I've been in. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.159|162.158.62.159]] 04:02, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

::Not all sugars are created equal nor do they have the same effect on the body. Are we talking about sucrose, high corn fructose syrup or something else? The number of calories may be the same, but the body can dispose of glucose much more effectively than fructose. -- No'am

Talk:1782: Team Chat

2017-01-11T05:16:26Z

162.158.126.76:

This is an xkcd about why the majority is wrong. ;) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.238|108.162.229.238]] 16:32, 6 January 2017 (UTC) seirl

F1rst. Jokes aside, wrote you guys something to work with. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.198|141.101.107.198]] 16:34, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
Sixi
:See [[1258: First]] and [[269: TCMP]]. Well funny enough you were neither the first to edit the page nor the talk page :-) Thanks for the start, but try to not delete the incomplete tag, but just write first draft or add what you can see is missing. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:40, 6 January 2017 (UTC)
::Good points for future edits! Appreciated. ♪ [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.198|141.101.107.198]] 16:45, 6 January 2017 (UTC) -Sixi

I find it funny how I'm editing the article, fixing the incomplete parts, then all of a sudden (as soon as I click "enter", I must add), someone's already fixed the incomplete parts, and there was a "conflict with the edit". :P --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 18:47, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

My first addition here, tried to explain skype vs slack and the title text. Feel free to roast me constructively :D Hope I didn't go too deep in Slack, thought most people don't know it and my little experience may help :) Also hope my unix tools explanation won't offend too many people; I'm a happy screen user myself, but it does have quite a bit of a learning curve. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.88|141.101.96.88]] 19:20, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, at least not [http://tools.suckless.org/ii/ ii] [[Special:Contributions/172.68.11.47|172.68.11.47]] 02:13, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, I think Randal is slightly off, it more goes like this:

2006: The company officially use Messenger - Except all of development ignores it and use IRC

2009: The company officially use Skype - Except all of development ignores it and use IRC

2012: The company officially use Lync - Except all of development ignores it and use IRC

2014: The company officially use Slack - Except all of development ignores it and use IRC

2016: The company officially use Teams - Except all of development ignores it and use IRC

[[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.200|162.158.88.200]] 10:45, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
:You forgot to add the part where it says that in 2018 they finally migrate... but to {{w|Discord (software)|Discord}}. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 12:54, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
:: randall didnt mention discord? smh [[Special:Contributions/162.158.58.159|162.158.58.159]] 21:18, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

I find it strange no-one has mentioned that IRC let's you run your own servers, with no 3rd party involved; whereas Skype & Slack both depend upon centralized corporate-owned servers, which are forced to silently comply with surveillance requests without so much as a warrant. That's just unacceptable for many dev groups. (Hence the popularity of apps like Discord.)

I had a lot of trouble viewing this page in Lynx through the Worldgroup gateway on a local dial-up Bulletin Board System. I think it's a problem with my QModem configuration. If anyone can help, please contact me on IRC. I'm usually available in the #Kaypro users room. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.46|108.162.221.46]] 21:59, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

:Surveillance requests are not be only reason Skype is monitoring your communication. Try to enter url into Skype: it will be visited by msnbot. I don't care why: that's something tool for devs shouldn't be doing. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 06:34, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

:I've seen this before, I'd guess the problem is with your 56K modem, during its handshake protocol I'm sure it's going *squeak!* when it's supposed to be going *squawk!*. Just disconnect and reconnect the phone line and make sure no phones are off the hook, then disconnect / reconnect again. That should fix you right up! And remove the AOL disc from the drive, those things are always causing problems. Oh, and sometimes being connected to IRQ or MSN Messenger can interfere, connect with them afterwards. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:16, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

So this past fall I remember seeing a bunch of web (and TV?) ads for Slack. You think Munroe got any kickback from Slack for this comic? It's worth noting that:
:- Microsoft launched Skype for Business in April 2015 (as a replacement to Lync). I would imagine that Skype is one of their biggest competitors, especially because Skype is included with Office, and just last month Slack introduced video calling.
:- Last week Slack announced they "invested in nearly a dozen new bot startups to bolster its Slack App Directory" (from VentureBeat). Techy folks who look up Slack after seeing Friday's comic are likely to see this news.
Maybe this is part of an "undergroundy" ad campaign by Slack? After reading the comic I certainly was subliminally thinking that Skype is sooo 2010; 2017 is the year of Slack! Great comic regardless. </conspiracytheories> [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.4|162.158.63.4]] 00:11, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Dammit, Dave, just become one with the singularity! We have IRC here too! --[[User:GranadalandDreamer|GranadalandDreamer]] ([[User talk:GranadalandDreamer|talk]]) 01:39, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Is there a need to explain "All consciousnesses have merged with the Galactic Singularity", or is it clear enough for XKCD readers? I mean - I've read "The Last Question" by Isaac Asimov, where this happens (including the one guy who isn't ready to go), but I'm old. I'm ''fifty''.
Also "Ch*ldh**d's End" - kind of a spoiler. And "The Heechee Saga".
rja.carnegie@excite.com
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.150|141.101.107.150]] 21:14, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

What? No [https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/InternetRelayChat emacs' irc client]? -- [[User:schnitz|schnitz]] 18:31, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Talk:657: Movie Narrative Charts

2017-01-04T04:31:49Z

162.158.126.76:

...but in 12 Angry Men, at two points, some of the jurors leave to -- and have conversations in -- the bathroom! {{unsigned ip|‎193.25.222.71}}

Why is this not part of the explaination? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Minard.png

It is public domain so it should be allowed right? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.117|108.162.246.117]] 03:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

I added it to the explaination as it certainly adds to the understadning of the comic. It was already uploaded by someone else. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.117|108.162.246.117]] 03:50, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Only flaw is that Saruman died at the wrong time. [[User:LordSamanon|LordSamanon]] ([[User talk:LordSamanon|talk]]) 02:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Second flaw is that Sam is going to west, too {{unsigned ip|141.101.99.80}}

Third flaw is that in 12 Angry Men, Juror 8 interacts with Juror 9 at the very end.
{{unsigned ip|108.162.215.56}}

I figured it would be of interest of the people here that I have gone through the afford of making one of these as well. It took me a few hours, but I am quite proud of the final image. It's definitely not perfect, though, and I am sure it could be done much better (especially if Randall himself would do it ;)). Either way, here is a movie narrative chart for the first ''Pokémon'' film, ''Mewtwo Strikes Back'', something I grew up with and felt worked pretty well in this form: http://maplestrip.tumblr.com/image/123162717416 [[User:Maplestrip|Maplestrip]] ([[User talk:Maplestrip|talk]]) 18:58, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

I doubt that it's really worth including in the explanation or anything, but it would seem that Grant's and Sattler's lines get swapped by the first time their names are reiterated. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.134|108.162.242.134]] 13:18, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

For me it is SO weird that this is today's Incomplete Explanation. Yesterday on Facebook, I had a Memory that I shared this 1 year ago today (so, 1 year ago yesterday). :) - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 04:31, 4 January 2017 (UTC)