Talk:3043: Muons

2025-01-28T04:26:03Z

162.158.159.189:

Article needs improvement by somebody with a clear understanding of special relativity, and somebody with a clear understanding of muons.
Are there actually two classes of muons or is it a joke? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.81|172.68.55.81]] 22:19, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

:No, not two classes; [https://web.mit.edu/lululiu/Public/8.13/Muons/muons.pdf see Figure 5 on p. 3 here]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.243|172.70.206.243]] 01:43, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::It sounds possibly like the article and comic together are saying that the muons we measure on earth are those that were going so fast that their time and distance are stretched so that they do not decay before reaching us. That non-relativistic muons decayed in the upper atmosphere. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.84|162.158.63.84]] 03:13, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
::Correct, even if their velocities are not bimodal, you can absolutely divide them into two classes based on whether they decay before reaching the surface. I am pretty sure that's what's intended here. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.136|172.68.23.136]] 03:42, 28 January 2025 (UTC)
:::I websearched around and found an old video from COSMUS showing an air shower with differently colored particles flying off. It looks like the COSMUS site is broken nowadays, but in archive.org I found it mentioned that the muons were red in the video. I saw some red particles decaying quickly like the behavior of smoke or fire or steam, and others firing toward the ground. I added a first paragraph with what I learned exploring. I'm sad the COSMUS site from the university of chicago seems down for years. They publicly modeled so many air showers and more. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.189|162.158.159.189]] 04:26, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Fed the comic image into two AIs: Gemini and Claude. These are their explanations; please tell me which is better:

Gemini:

:This xkcd comic (#2885) is a humorous take on the concept of time dilation from Einstein's theory of special relativity, specifically as it applies to muons.

:Here's a breakdown:

:The Setup: The comic explains that muons, subatomic particles created in the upper atmosphere, have very short lifespans. Normally, they would decay before reaching the Earth's surface. However, because they travel at speeds close to the speed of light, time dilation occurs.

:Time Dilation: According to special relativity, time passes slower for objects moving at high speeds relative to a stationary observer. This means that from our perspective on Earth, the muons' internal clocks tick slower, allowing them to travel further before decaying.

:The Joke: The comic takes this scientific concept and applies it to pronunciation. The presenter is shown drawing out the word "muons" ("MUUUUUUOOOONS") to emphasize the elongated time experienced by the fast-moving particles.

:The Punchline: The caption "PHYSICS TIP: REMEMBER TO ADJUST YOUR PRONUNCIATIONS TO ACCOUNT FOR TIME DILATION" is the punchline. It's a humorous exaggeration, suggesting that we should literally pronounce words differently depending on the relative speed of the objects they describe.

:In essence, the comic is a clever play on words that combines a complex physics concept with a mundane everyday activity (pronunciation). It highlights the counterintuitive nature of special relativity in a lighthearted way.

:Here's why this might be tricky to explain on explainxkcd:

:It's concise: The joke is very compact and doesn't require a lot of background information beyond a basic understanding of time dilation.
:It's visual: The drawn-out "MUUUUUUOOOONS" is crucial to the humor, and it's difficult to fully capture that in a purely textual explanation.
:It's somewhat self-explanatory: The comic itself does a good job of setting up the joke and delivering the punchline.

Dunno why it thinks this is comic 2885.

Claude:

:The comic is explaining how muons (subatomic particles) created in the upper atmosphere are able to reach Earth's surface despite their short half-lives.
:The humor comes from the way "muons" is written with stretched-out letters ("MUUUUUOOOOONS"), which is a play on time dilation in special relativity.
:Time dilation is a real physics phenomenon where time moves slower for objects moving at very high speeds relative to a stationary observer. This is why fast-moving muons can survive longer than their normal half-life would suggest - from their perspective, due to time dilation, less time has passed.
:The comic suggests, as a "physics tip," that you should stretch out your pronunciation of words to account for time dilation - as if the word itself experiences the same relativistic effects as the particle it describes.

:It's a particularly nerdy physics joke because it combines accurate physics (muons really do reach the surface due to time dilation) with a playful misapplication of the concept to human speech. The stick figure appears to be teaching or presenting this concept, complete with what looks like equations on a board, making it feel like a legitimate physics lesson with a humorous twist.
:This is characteristic of xkcd's style of humor, which often combines accurate scientific concepts with absurdist interpretations.

{{unsigned|AK24Ammit}}

:Claude's is better, by far. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.54|172.70.215.54]] 01:49, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:2905: Supergroup

2024-03-12T22:11:02Z

162.158.159.189:

== Title text ==

Isn't the sum in the title text wrong? It should be ''99 Luftballoons'' (or the English cover ''99 Red Balloons'') + ''101 Dalmatians'' + ''I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)'' = 700 balloons, dalmatians and miles (not 1,200).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.103|141.101.69.103]]
:Maybe it's about Vanessa Carlton's "A Thousand Miles"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.65.245|172.69.65.245]] 22:13, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Note that ''I'm Gonna Be'' is actually about walking 1000 miles, not 500 miles. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.41|172.70.39.41]] 08:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
::Right! "I-hai would walk five hundred miles, and I-hai would walk five hundred more..." [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 15:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

"cover" implies that the combined song already exists and was performed by some other group. I would expect that this supergroup would have created the medley themselves, to fit their particular genre. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:23, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

"101 Dalmations" isn't a well known song AFAIK. It was written as the title song of the Disney movie, but wasn't actually used. Wikipedia says it got released on other albums. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

A supergroup cover of ''99 Luftballons'' would probably be ''awesome.'' --[[User:The-Daleks|The-Daleks]] ([[User talk:The-Daleks|talk]]) 20:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

== Comic ==

I don't know all the bands, but it looks like they are: 21 Pilots, 5 Seconds of Summer, 4 Non Blondes, 2 Live Crew, 100 GEC, 3 Doors Down, 9 Inch Nails, 1 Republic, 1 Direction, 30 Seconds to Mars.

== Missed Opportunity ==

I am surprised there were no references to orthosymplectic or superunitary groups.
:That's what I originally thought the joke would be about. This is much more mundane. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 22:34, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
:Well if ''G'' and ''H'' are groups and ''G'' ⊇ ''H'', then ''G'' is a supergroup of ''H'', isn't it? --[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 13:39, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

== extras ==

throw in:

* {{w|23 Skidoo (band)|23 Skidoo}}
* {{w|400 Blows (British band)|400 Blows}}

--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.76|162.158.63.76]] 07:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

:{{w|Five Finger Death Punch}}
:{{w|Six Feet Under (band)|Six Feet Under}} --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I remember a great film, ''The Magnificently Dirty Nineteen''. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.155|172.69.195.155]]
:Don't forget the sequel ''The Fantastic Ocean's Taking of Pelham Slaughterhouse 143'' [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:07, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
::And the supercut "The Fast and the Furious 41" --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 15:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I like the alternate cut: 108 Dalmation Nation Army. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.48|172.69.247.48]]

I'm going to hold out for The Blink and Ben Folds 2162. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.189|162.158.159.189]] 22:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

== Group (math) connections ==

I think tat the description misses the connection to math:

* Group is a mathematical concept (**set** of elements with some properties and operations)
* Sub-group is a subset of a group that retains the properties; Super-group can be constructed similarrly;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_(mathematics) ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgroup ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergroup_(physics)

--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.132|141.101.105.132]] 18:28, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3043: Muons

Talk:2905: Supergroup