explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2995: University Commas

2024-10-09T11:43:06Z

162.158.62.228: more details on shatner and walken commas

As Wikipedia notes, the {{w|Harvard comma}} is actually a thing, and synonymous with the Oxford comma. It's hard to understand whether Randall was just ignoring that.
It's interesting to also look at how the various commas are meaningful. For instance, the Yale comma here appears to be just plain ungrammatical, you'd never put a comma between a verb and a its direct object; similarly the Cambridge comma and Princeton commas are ungrammatical, you'd never put one after the word "and." The Stanford comma is unambiguously normal and it's not clear how you could have such a list without it (absent replacement with a [Stanford?] semicolon). The Columbia comma is being used to separate "mac and cheese" into "mac, and[,] cheese" which changes the semantic meaning (arguably into something meaningless, but maybe we're listing Apple Computers or even Macintosh apple fruit abbreviated). The MIT comma is a cute programming joke for multiline lists. Maybe there are hidden trick meanings (like MIT) I'm missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:On their own, few of them are intrinsically bad, in the right context.
:*"Please, buy" - valid comma. Prefixed subclause (general plea).
:*"Please buy, apples" - valid comma (more specific plea).
:*"apples, mac" - valid comma (list-type).
:*"mac, and" - valid comma (potentially a conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"mac and, cheese" - valid comma (potentially a post-conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"and cheese, milk" - valid comma (follow-up sub-clause).
:*"cheese, milk, and" - Oxford comma. (Thus invalid, by default. IMO.)
:*"milk and, bread." - ...would be valid, as above, except for the sentence ending.
:*"and bread,." - Ok. Definitely the worst. (Except for the Oxford Comma, which is still worserer!)
:Obviously, combinations of them (or counterpart lack of them, in some cases) can clash badly. Some can work well together, but using ()s, ;s or feetnete<sup>*</sup> is often better than diving in and out of sub-clauses in the midst of a comma-bound list and potentially making it ambiguous whether you're diving in/out of a clarifying aside or replacing a non-terminating conjunction or perhaps one of the other usages to which a comma might apply.
:<sup>*</sup> Or just generally rewriting a multi-clausal sentence completely! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 23:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Commas can go in a number of places in lists, and, occasionally, after the word "and". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 23:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Potentially, anything is possible... I can see how a sentence like "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and, bread being out of stock, oats" would work, but I really don't see how the commas after "and" could work ''in this sentence''. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

If each item in a list shall be followed by a comma then the MIT comma is quite proper. SDT [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.206|172.68.245.206]] 05:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The UCLA comma may refer to the 8 clap, a chant at UCLA which is begins with a string of 8 claps. {{unsigned ip|172.68.205.178|07:33, 8 October 2024}}

I thought the UCLA & Michigan commas referred to quotes within citations. This isn't uncommon in literary studies, where you quote articles quoting books. Depending on your quotation style, this can result in a long string of 3-4 "commas" (as in: short lines in punctuation marks). If you place the quote between actual commas, make that 4-5. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the tirade against the Oxford comma in the article is not relevant for understanding the comic. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" is not saying that Ayn Rand is the mother. To express that one should write "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and to God". Thus the ambiguity can be resolved. I believe one of the editors is mixing in their personal taste here. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 09:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:Tirade? Hardly. It explains when it doesn't help (and when it might).
:And I think you misread. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" indeed does not say that Ayn Rand is the mother. In fact it ''explicitly'' says that "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God'"... erm... does ''not'' say the thing that 'To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God' ''potentially'' does. (See table below.)
:The choice of how to disambiguate "my mother, who is Ayn Rand", as a concept, is another thing and has multiple options. Disambiguating in the direction of a simple list is the contention surrounding the Oxford(/Serial) Comma itself (it is, by definition, being used in the list format), given that some circumstances are most helped by it and others are most helped by its absence. If you're strongly for the OC, you'll hopefully rewrite problematic OCed formulations so that you can use it. If you're strongly against it you should change problamatic non-OCed versions so that you can better go without one. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.128|172.70.85.128]] 10:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Inspired (a bit) by the Three Laws permutation table, a set of possible ambiguations from the straight list...
{| class="wikitable"
!A !!B !!C !!"A, B and C" !!"A, B, and C"
|-
|my parents||Ayn Rand||God||"my parents (who are Ayn Rand and God)"||''list only''*
|-
|my parents||God||Ayn Rand||"my parents (who are God and Ayn Rand)"||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||my parents||God||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||God||my parents||''list only''* ||"Ayn Rand (who is God), and my parents"
|-
|God||my parents||Ayn Rand||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|God||Ayn Rand||my parents||''list only''* ||"God (who is Ayn Rand), and my parents"
|}
:-* - Assuming no other "All You Zombies" and/or divine incarnation scenarios.
:...maybe it's too early in the morning, but I'm sure I'm missing other ambiguities I've commented on before. (Without necesarily going into the asterisked territories.) Anyone want to amend this? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.105|172.68.186.105]] 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Love it! [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::There's additional potential ambiguity if you go with the singular "my mother" as opposed to the plural "my parents". "My mother, Ayn Rand, and God" (with the Oxford comma) could be listing 2 separate entities while indicating that my mother is Ayn Rand, or could be listing 3 separate entities. "My mother, Ayn Rand and God" (without the Oxford comma) could be referring to a single entity while indicating that my mother is both Ayn Rand and God, or listing 3 separate entities. (In a phrase like, "My mother, Ayn Rand and God, gave it to me," the comma after God indicates that it's one entity, but you lose that clarity with "It was given to me by my mother, Ayn Rand and God." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.66|172.68.70.66]] 14:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What if my mother, Ayn Rand, and God are actually the trinity?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.87|172.69.195.87]] 08:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I realize that this comic focuses on University commas, however I feel that some mention should be made about the Walken Comma and the Shatner Comma! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.103|172.70.114.103]] 10:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:What, do you,    mean by,   that? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.106|172.69.195.106]] 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Here's the explanation: [https://www.joeydevilla.com/2015/06/26/a-visual-guide-to-the-different-comma-styles/ Walken and Shatner Commas] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.228|162.158.62.228]] 11:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

{{w|Mac and cheese}} is probably not well-known outside the US (especially not under that name). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.115|172.71.160.115]] 13:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:As usual, the Brits don't know how to name food. "Macaroni cheese" sounds like the macaroni is made of cheese. But I added an explanation and link to the Wikipedia page. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Don't be silly, that would clearly be named "cheese macaroni". Macaroni cheese is clearly cheese for macaroni, and it's simply polite to serve macaroni to have it with as well. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.114|172.71.151.114]] 14:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:'Mac & cheese' is, sadly, probably more common in the UK now than the proper 'macaroni cheese'.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.47|141.101.99.47]] 08:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the added red text in the Notation column, but it needs to be explained in the Explanation column. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.8|162.158.90.8]] 00:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

142: Parody Week: Megatokyo

2022-12-30T20:53:36Z

162.158.62.228: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 142
| date = August 15, 2006
| title = Parody Week: Megatokyo
| image = megaxkcd.png
| titletext = I just want to give him a hug or something.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic is a part of the [[:Category:Parody Week|Parody Week]], just joking about other {{w|webcomics}}. This series was released on five consecutive days (Monday-Friday), not over the usual Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule, and it comprises the following five {{w|parodies}}:
*[[141: Parody Week: Achewood]]
*[[142: Parody Week: Megatokyo]]
*[[143: Parody Week: TFD and Natalie Dee]]
*[[144: Parody Week: A Softer World]]
*[[145: Parody Week: Dinosaur Comics]]

{{w|Megatokyo}} is a webcomic by {{w|Fred Gallagher (cartoonist)|Fred Gallagher}}. Its art and storylines are heavily influenced by Japanese comics known as {{w|Manga}}.

The opening panel sets up a parody of Megatokyo here called '''megaxkcd'''. The girl is {{w|List_of_Megatokyo_characters#Ping|Ping}}, a robotic {{w|PlayStation 2|PS2}} accessory from the comic. The soft gray-scale art, hand-drawn "shadowed" panel borders, and vertical panel layout also mimic Megatokyo's design.

The joke begins with the main protagonist (probably {{w|Megatokyo#Piro|Piro}}) falling in love with Ping, a ''game console accessory'', and in today's comic, he is supposed to come to terms with this fact.

But then, the parody is apparently aborted when two characters from the normal xkcd, [[Cueball]] and [[Black Hat]], question the parody, as they are afraid of hurting artist Fred Gallagher's feelings. This itself is a dig at the sometimes maudlin and emotionally tender tone of Megatokyo, and in particular the self-conscious resemblance of anxious protagonist Piro to creator Gallagher, who based the character on a twenty-something version of himself.

This is one of the few comics where Black Hat is not his usual [[classhole]] self. So even he likes and approves of Fred and his comic! Actually, Black Hat is the one most concerned for Fred's feelings, and he suggests that they should go and cheer the poor guy up, now that he may have taken the parody kind of hard. Black Hat also yells to him that he should not cry, when he and Cueball arrive on his doorstep with a cake with lots of candles.

The title text reiterates the similarity between the style of the comic and the character of the artist behind it, which has been [http://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2004/04/23 noted elsewhere as well]. It also exclaims [[Randall]]'s feelings for Fred, his webcomic, and its style.

Falling in love with a robot (or using one for sex) was later investigated in the [[:Category:Android|Android series]]. And on [[144: Parody Week: A Softer World]], love and robots are again investigated leading to a pregnant robot.

==Transcript==
:[At the top of the panel is the title of the comic inside Japanese quote characters. Beneath this is a text, and to the right of this is a drawing on an anime girl in shirt and skirt, who has blonde hair with very long pigtails, long rectangular earrings, and a blank expression looking slightly down while standing with her arms at her sides. The gray-scale drawing is far from the normal xkcd style.]
:<big>'''megaxkcd'''</big>
:In today's megaxkcd, our protagonist comes to terms with his romantic love for a girl who is a video game console accessory.

:[Cueball and Black Hat, drawn in standard xkcd style, talk.]
:Cueball: Wait, I'm not sure we should parody megatokyo.
:Black Hat: Fred Gallagher does seem like he might take it kind of hard.
:Cueball: He really does.
:Black Hat: Poor guy. We should try to cheer him up.

:[Cueball and Black Hat stand in front of a profile shot of a house with at least two stories. On the left is a mailbox at the curb of the road to the very left. Black Hat stands on the path to the house past the mailbox, while Cueball is holding a big cake with at least three lit candles on top. He holds it up in both hands in front of him presenting it to the closed door in front of him as he stands on the top of a two-step staircase to the front door. There are two flowers beneath him at the base of the stair, and two windows on the side wall of the house, one in each of the two visible stories. The house continues above the panel.]
:Black Hat: Fred? Fred, please come out. It's OK. Don't cry, Fred.
:Cueball: We... We baked you a cake.

==Trivia==
*This was the [http://megatokyo.com/strip/893 Megatokyo strip] released the day before this comic.
*Since the parody week had a comic five days in a row, there would for many other webcomics not be a release on this Tuesday, as many comics use the same M, W, F release as xkcd also does normally.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Parody Week]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Robots]]