explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2450: Post Vaccine Social Scheduling

2021-04-16T20:01:10Z

162.158.78.160:

That third line down in the cartoon, shouldn't the first 2 be a 1? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.116|198.41.238.116]] 02:56, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:Plus, should they really be going to a movie during their two weeks? [[User:NixillUmbreon|NixillUmbreon]] ([[User talk:NixillUmbreon|talk]]) 03:20, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:Third line down may have gotten a spoiled batch on their second shot (or could be lying, thereby creating errors the schedule), but it does look to me like a typo. NixellUmbreon correctly notes that Third Line also does ''not'' wait the requisite period after 2nd dose before going to a movie!
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 03:50, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
::Or perhaps they think that as soon as they've had their second shot, they're Good To Go? Not lying deliberately, but just plain old misinformed [[Special:Contributions/162.158.165.66|162.158.165.66]] 04:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:::I think the idea is because the other 2 people are vaccinated, assuming person 3 isn't at high risk, per CDC guidelines I think they're ok to socialize with vaccinated people (but that assumes there isn't anyone else at the movies) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.199|162.158.62.199]] 14:51, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

It seems unfair to attend any birthdays this year, considering how many could not be attended. Bobby gets a party but Susie doesn't? Hmm... Time is cruel.

Also, unrelated, but it's entirely possible that Lines 1, 2, 5, 7 & 8 are scheduling to gather on ''Line 3's'' birthday, while 3 isn't vaccinated yet.
:Line 3 doesn't attend the birthday. She's going to the movie with 4 & 5 just after the 2nd shot. Every one at the bday has had the 2nd shot for 2+ weeks. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.160|141.101.77.160]] 08:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
::That's my point! It is entirely possible to schedule a birthday party for someone who cannot yet attend. Case in point: Family & friends on Earth gathering to celebrate the birthday of an astronaut in space, who can only view the goings-on via a bandwidth-limited single-feed video chat. With CoViD '19 happening, who knows how many people have tried to schedule a ''surprise'' party only to discover that the birthday person won't be vaccinated in time? Mind you, I'm not saying it's the most likely scenario (far from it), I'm merely pointing out that with so many still unable to attend, it's entirely ''possible'' to schedule a party for the birthday of someone who can't attend.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:50, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

''Edit:'' Also, also, what is a chungus? (I don't come to explainxkcd because I want to search random words on DuckDuckGo...)
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 03:50, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:according to dictionary.com, “Chungus is a meme featuring a chunky version of the cartoon character Bugs Bunny, typically captioned Big Chungus. It began as gaming joke that spread online as a slang term for anything ‘(adorably) chunky,’ similar to chonky.“ (which begs the question, what does that have to do with the explanation of this comic being written by a “big chungus”)[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.233|162.158.62.233]] 04:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Just wondering, how is Big Chungus related to this? Confuuusion [[User:Eelitee|Eelitee]] ([[User talk:Eelitee|talk]]) 04:29, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:Sooo... "Chungus" seems unrelated to anything in the comic, & was replaced in the bot tag so it no longer appears on the explanation page. Maybe it was just some idle defacement by an early visitor to the comic's explanation? It's a weird term: I don't see any use of it ''except'' in reference to this ''single appearance'' of a fattened Bugs Bunny, the phrase is not spoken in the cartoon & as a portmanteau "chunky" seems a clear contributor, but the latter half is less clear. (Misspelling of "ous" from "humongous"? Does not seem to get applied to humongous things, as often as small things that are fat, though... "bulbous"?)
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 18:09, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Question as a European: Don't Americans use the Johnson & Johnson vaccine which just needs 1 shot (in addition to those that need 2 shots)? Everyone in this chart gets a "2" shot (and in the case of the 3rd person even two "2" shots.) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:03, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:When scheduled for an immunisation an American may find that they are being administered Moderna, Pfizer, or until recently the J&J vaccine (currently that rollout is paused until an investigation into blood clot incidence can be concluded). The second shot if it exists needs to be the same as the first, but otherwise there is little local favouring of one manufacturer over the others. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.77|172.69.33.77]] 06:36, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
::Thanks for the information, but my question was about how J&J is applied (if it is applied at all), as to my knowledge it doesn't need a 2nd shot, but is fully functional few weeks after the first shot. But noone in this graph is getting only 1 shot. So it looks like this graph already ignores J&J/depicts a group of people in which noone got J&J. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:39, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:::J&J makes up < 5% of administered vaccines in the US even prior to the CDC freeze, so its not surprising that in a group of 11 people they all received either Moderna or Pfizer [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.199|162.158.62.199]] 14:51, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:::The people I know who've received the J&J vaccine were still advised to get a second dose (not that it's available).
:::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 17:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I thought this comic was also about the CDC guidance even after getting vaccinated to stay in small groups, this, there is no group of > 4 people or so. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.35.143|172.69.35.143]] 05:17, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:Cabin and birthday are 5 people each. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:20, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:: Hmm, but by "Cabin" everyone has already been vaccinated. So should've they all be able to attend? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.19|172.69.33.19]] 05:31, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
::: Everyone still doesn't want to go everywere. If I'd schedule a Transformers movie night I'd only got most of my brothers to join and maybe two of our significant others. Also some may be unavailable for other reasons to which the alt-text seems to refer. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.244|162.158.238.244]] 07:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Might this also a take on the transistor 'NPN hole' diagram? The title text states 'NP-hard' which is something different, but the diagram does look a little like transistor holes and electrons! Emitter's and Collector's? [[User:Fan2012|Fan2012]] ([[User talk:Fan2012|talk]]) 06:21, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Hm, is this possibly the Boolean satisfiability problem (as in whether or not someone can come is TRUE or FALSE)? This is a NP-hard problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_satisfiability_problem [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.195|172.68.132.195]]

Could somebody send this recent book by a whistleblower to Randall? He could make so many jokes: https://books.google.com/books/about/Mindf_ck.html?id=8AqmDwAAQBAJ [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.13|162.158.62.13]] 12:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Judging by the size of the gaps, 2, 7 & 8 presumably receive Moderna, while the rest receive Pfizer (for the pedants: yes, there are other possible explanations for the discrepancy in gaps, but this is the simplest). Does someone have a way of checking whether this roughly mirrors the prevalence of the two vaccines in the US up to mid-April?
: From https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations as of April 16 6:00AM EST fully vaccinated numbers were Pfizer 39.440M, Moderna 33.333M, J&J 7.798M. For 11 people the best fit would be 5:5:1.
: We do not know if the sample is representative of the US population, but if it is we can use todays 24% fully vaccinated (actually 2 doses without the further 2 week wait) place April 16 in the first quarter, near the time the bottom person gets their 2nd dose.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.160|162.158.78.160]] 20:01, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Anyone concerned for the four people that [[Black Hat]] is taking to a cabin? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.16|141.101.98.16]] 17:56, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:I'm more concerned that I'm not going. [[User:Danish|Danish]] ([[User talk:Danish|talk]]) 17:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
:There are really 5 people plus [[Black Hat]] since the person sponsoring the event is not on the chart and will also be there. I am assuming that the person doing the arranging is doing it for personal benefit and will be attending all the events. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 02:24, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
::Not an obvious conclusion. In organising one's own line (Danish from the top line, or perhaps the Danish+Cueball couple, centred entirely on hosting/attending the Birthday event?), you're drawn into accounting for everyone else who ''might'' be there and their other potential commitments. Possibly extending to friends-of-friends (Blondie, other Cueball and Meghan? ...justifiable as not even pass-through members of Birthday?) who wouldn't be expected to be birthday guests but need to be figured in as potential confounding factors.
::Alternatively, as typical author+partner avatars, Cueball+Meghan at the bottom are arranging a couple of part-shared meet-ups and it has been extended upwards to account for proxy-associationz (including the Birthday, which isn't on their own radar). Though I find the connective topology of the (definite) links slightly less convincing in support of this version.
::(i.e. bottom-up and its subsequent accumulation of activities/people is less convincing, when compared to the top-down interpretation of Hairbun unfortunately being shown necessary to skip the main Birthday bash; Black Hat and Science Girl maybe only included high up as known linked persons, via their intended involvement in the Movie/Cabin/etc...)
::There are other possible starting assumptions (positionally, it could have 'started' with any single character's line, extended up ''and'' down as deemed necessary when more linked events and individuals were discovered) but none appear to be quite as logically satisfying. YMMV. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.80|141.101.107.80]] 08:15, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, but this looks for me not only like a {{w|Sorting network}}, but it would also give the NP-problem reference more sense. [[User:Enkidu|Enkidu]] ([[User talk:Enkidu|talk]]) 11:47, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Talk:272: Linux User at Best Buy

2020-07-27T05:08:52Z

162.158.78.160: You use colons to indent replies.

Not that Macs or Linux are invulnerable to malware. (Anyone else remember the {{w|Morris worm|Internet Worm}}, which would surely have ripped through Linux machines if not encountered on Unix, already, in pre-Linux days. Other exploits ''have'' been discovered, and had to be fixed.) Having said that, both types of machine ''tend'' to be safer from an OS security model point of view, from being a minority target that is largely overlooked ''and'' from the end-users being generally more savvy against liveware component attacks. However with the targetted growing flood of new users, that may well be changing. The latter two points, at least, although I'm sure ''some'' of the distros "boot as root" as well.

The speed of Linux also tends to be more from being more finely-honed by the last generation or two of geeks. Less clutter (at least with the distros ''I'' like, YMMV with some of the more "user friendly" ones) and the somewhat intimate knowledge of the system that the user tends to get and is able to act upon if anything displeases them (although, again, that may be changing). These days (and those days, I'm pretty sure) you ''can'' get mainstream AV programs for Linux (and Mac) and while I'm not going to say they're ''necessary'' for Linux, they're available and primed to help you out of various messes you ''could'' encounter. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 08:07, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

:Approximately 15 ago I did deactivate the firewall at my main (Linux) internet gateway for some tests only for a few minutes. I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN! I only remember the root access was done by a user name r00t and my log files at "/var/log" had been deleted. When I did figure out that attack I immediately disconnected it from the internet, but I also had to do a complete new install to that system. Linux is only secure when you know how to secure it.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:01, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Most linux virus scanners are to scan e-mails for windoze viruses. [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 04:09, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Is the motorbike backflip and speedaway a reference to something? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.133|141.101.98.133]] 14:03, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

What Linux distros do you guys use (if you do use one)? #ubuntuforlife #makingalinuxOSmyself :D --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 16:36, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I’d like to point out the oft overlooked fact that the majority of malware targets Windows based PCs not exclusively because *NIX systems are so Uber secure, but rather simply because historically Windows is the dominant OS for consumer grade computers. Malware and Adware have a financial motive and so it makes the most sense to write for an OS that holds more than 85% market share. This isn’t an excuse for Windows systems historically being underwhelming secure to put it mildly, but it is something of note.

:Arch Linux. Although I'm new to Linux, I already love it!--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.39|162.158.69.39]] 19:07, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

::You use colons to indent replies. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.160|162.158.78.160]] 05:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Whooooo! good job, Randall![[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.108|108.162.246.108]] 21:12, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Haha i use linux... on a VM---- {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.64}}

:I have a Raspberry Pi that filled up its SD card, as well as WSL. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.160|162.158.78.160]] 05:08, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2020-06-28T13:05:42Z

162.158.78.160: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1619
| date = December 21, 2015
| title = Watson Medical Algorithm
| image = watson_medical_algorithm.png
| titletext = Due to a minor glitch, 'discharge patient' does not cause the algorithm to exit, but instead leads back to 'hunt down and capture patient'.
}}

==Explanation==
IBM's {{w|Watson (computer)|Watson}} is a natural language system designed to answer questions posed by humans. Recently, {{w|IBM}} has extended Watson to act as a {{w|clinical decision support system}}, using image analytics to aid {{w|physicians}} in medical decision making.

In this comic, [[Randall]] uses a {{w|flowchart}} (as he [[:Category:Flowcharts|often does]]) to represent a guide to the algorithm used by Watson, including bizarre techniques including surgical alteration of a patient to match a height and weight chart or squeezing the patient to make sure fluids come out of them. Like [[416: Zealous Autoconfig]], this comic pokes fun at a rigid, poorly-designed setup that ends up potentially doing more harm than good.

Modern {{w|medicine}} involves both standard processes and clinical judgment based around years of advanced training. An algorithm like this would have to be incredibly complicated in order to simulate the clinical judgment of a good doctor. However, some procedures are not normally used, and some would obviously cause damage.{{Citation needed}} Below is a [[#Explaination of steps|detailed description of each step]], but here is a list of some of the more strange steps:
*The algorithm depicted treats a patient as more of a machine or mechanical system than a living being, especially through decisions such as:
**Injecting oxygen into patients with low {{w|Oxygen saturation (medicine)|oxygen saturation}}, rather than treating the root cause.
**Removing and inspecting a skeleton, then diagnosing the patient's condition with a bone count. This is likely a reference to [http://buttersafe.com/2015/10/15/a-serious-case-of-spookiness/ A Serious Case Of Spookiness] from the [http://buttersafe.com/ Buttersafe] web-comic, a comic Randall links to from below the comics on {{xkcd}}.
***In the book ''[[Thing Explainer]]'' there is an explanation ''Colors of light'' for the electromagnetic spectrum, where [[Ponytail]] as a doctor looks at a full body x-ray of [[Cueball]] and exclaims that ''... It looks like your body is full of bones'' to which Cueball replies ''Oh no! Is there any cure?'' Well if he meets Watson he might have them all removed... This comic came out about a month after the book so it may be viewed as a kind of reference to the problem with too many bones.
**{{w|Dissecting}} a doctor "for parts" after consulting him or her for advice.
**Removing extra limbs from a patient if the count is 100 or more (This might be a reference to different number systems used in computers, as 100 is read in binary as four.)
**Determining whether the "build environment" of the patient is sane. This is most probably a reference to the {{w|configure script}} used in the {{w|GNU_build_system|GNU build system}}, which emits "checking whether build environment is sane" as one of its status messages.
**Rinsing the whole patient with a {{w|Saline (medicine)|saline solution}}.
**Removing organs from a patient regardless of response to an {{w|organ donation}} request.
*Other decisions appear to be entirely unrelated to the conditions upon which they are predicated:
**If the patient doesn't rate their {{w|Pain scale|pain on a scale}} from 0-10, {{w|Genome project|sequence their genome}}, apply a {{w|tourniquet}}, and perform an {{w|autopsy}}
**If the patient's phone's battery is low, {{w|Defibrillation|defibrillate}} until the battery is charged, sync photos, then administer general anesthesia
**If the patient is successfully comforted after an oxygen injection, check their medical history and apply {{w|Skin grafting|skin grafts}}
**If green fluid is released from the patient, begin to {{w|Cauterization|cauterize}}
**If the patient has less than 100 limbs, check their {{w|Vitamin D}} level

Although there are two options where the patient is {{w|Inpatient_care#Planning_for_patient_discharge|discharged}} the patient should be very lucky to make it there alive.

The option at the bottom left is only reached after your skeleton is removed (and nothing is mentioned about putting it back, even if that would help).

The other discharge option is to the right, three boxes down, and can only be reached if you survive having an oxygen saturation of less than 50 % (less than 80-90 % can be a serious problem, see [[#Explaination of steps|table below]]), and a very dangerous oxygen injection. Then you have to have a skin graft and a good D vitamin level. It is also best that you have a fully charged phone else you will be subject to defibrillation (which may very likely kill you, if it will continue until your phone is charged to above "low" level - which is probably not even possible).

You can also reach this discharge option another way, but that would only be after your organs were removed... But if you get through this you could reach the discharged option alive. Sadly there is a little glitch mentioned in the title text:

The title text implies that, if the patient is so lucky to ever reach one of the two places with the option "discharge patient", a minor glitch will cause the program to go back to the ''hunt down and capture patient'' option which thus force the patient and the program to repeat the process again in an infinite cycle, that will only end once the patient give another rating than 0-10 of their pain level on the 0-10 scale. Then the program will start to sequence their genome, then apply a tourniquet and finally perform an autopsy on what will, in the end, for certain be a deceased patient; but maybe the patient was still alive when the autopsy began. This will finally cause the patient to leave the cycle as a corpse. If the patient dies before giving a different option, the machine could get stuck, as it will never receive any answer to the pain level question. It could also get stuck trying to charge the patients phone battery by defibrilation.

One potential way to survive is to keep answering “nine” on the pain level question.
This is the second comic in a row about health issues with the last comic being [[1618: Cold Medicine]].

===Explanation of steps===
{| class="wikitable"
| | Step
| | Medically valid?
| | Conditions and following step
|-
| |
Draw Blood
| |
Phlebotomy is a normal early step in the diagnostic process, but not as first and unconditional step
| |
Record patient’s name
|-
| |
Record patient’s name
| |
Ideally done before a robot is involved, but not an abnormal step
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
|-
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
| |
OK
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
|-
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
| |
OK
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
|-
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
| |
May be considered ethically dubious unless there are [http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/medical-information/procedures-and-treatments/limb-length-difference-and-limb-lengthening sound medical reasons] for doing so. Could be an allusion to {{w|Procrustes}}.
| |
Is patient coughing up blood?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient coughing up blood?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
OK, coughing up blood is generally a sign that there is something wrong. Typical causes are respiratory tract infections (e.g. tuberculosis), lung trauma or pulmonary embolism.
| |
Yes: Gather blood and return it to body
|-
| |
No: Is patient still here?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient still here?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Not usually considered a step, but missing patients are a problem in some fields, psychiatry or intensive care for example.
| |
Yes: Record pulse rate
|-
| |
No: Hunt down and capture patient
|-
| |
Hunt down and capture patient
| |
Valid if patient should not have left the bed/unit, but the wording is possibly dubious.
| |
Is patient still here?
|-
| |
Gather blood and return it to body
| |
Dangerous idea in this case due to likelihood of contamination, although if safely done autotransfusion is an accepted medical technique to ensure a matching blood supply prior to a major operation, or to enhance stamina (blood doping)
| |
Record pulse rate
|-
| |
Record pulse rate
| |
OK, but maybe a little late.
| |
Is patient screaming?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient screaming?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Very important question, indicating patient is conscious, in pain, and aware pain is bad. First attenders can use it in classifying priorities (quiet patients may be more severely injured). Generally useful in assessing nerve damage, pain relief, etc.
| |
Yes: Ignore
|-
| |
No: Check blood O2 saturation
|-
| |
Ignore
| |
Ignoring that a patient is screaming might not be a good idea, as it indicates that the patient is in severe pain, but could be indicated in mass casualty situations or other dire emergency.
| |
Check blood O2 saturation
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 ` |
Check blood O2 saturation
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Only really indicated if the patient is in danger of hypoxia. Generally normal people should have a SpO2 of 98-100%, but in chronic lung disease this can fall as low to 80%, and in premature babies a SpO2 of 90% is usually targeted to avoid problems with retinopathy. If the SpO2 were to fall as low as 50%, the patient would definitely be dead or unconscious.
| |
>50%: Remove and inspect skeleton
|-
| |
<50%: Inject oxygen
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Remove and inspect skeleton
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Fatal if patient is still alive when beginning. Also not a valid medical procedure in any way as it is impossible to remove most of the long bones of the body without destroying all surrounding tissue.
| |
Too many bones: Is fluid coming out of patient?
|-
| |
Too few bones: Request consult with human doctor
|-
| |
Request consult with human doctor
| |
Medically valid in the context of obtaining an opinion from a doctor in a different speciality who is better suited to treating the patient.
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
|-
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
| | This may be considered ethically dubious. Possible reference to the Doctor Who episode “{{w|The Girl in the Fireplace}}”
| |
Discharge patient (left)
|-
| |
Discharge patient (left)
| |
Acceptable, but patient would generally be dead by then.
| |
END STATE (before you read the title text)
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is fluid coming out of patient
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Unintended fluid release is always a problem. How significant a problem depends on where the fluid came from and if it is supposed to be coming from there. Red generally is due to blood, yellow is due to pus/tissue fluid/lymph and green signifies bacterial infection or bile salts (biliverdin). Could also relate to normal fluids being lost (e.g. urine, saliva, sweat)
| |
No: Squeeze patient
|-
| |
Yes: What color?
|-
| |
Squeeze patient
| |
Could be in the medical context is in providing external ventilation (see iron lung) or other means of removing fluid (e.g. squeezing pus from a boil).
| |
Is fluid coming out of patient
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=4 |
What color?
| width="33%" rowspan=4 |
Never underestimate the number of different types of fluid the body can produce. This may also be a refence to [[1148: Nothing to Offer]].
| |
Yellow: Squeeze Patient
|-
| |
Black: Activate Sprinklers
|-
| |
Red: Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Green: Cauterize
|-
| |
Activate sprinklers
| |
Not medically valid. Presumably a reference to how much cleaning up will be required by this stage. Or, since this occurs when fluids are black, the black fluids might indicate that there are ashes or charred tissue, indicate that the patient has caught on fire and sprinklers are needed to extinguish the fire.
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| |
Subdue patient
| |
Potentially very important if patient is behaving dangerously to themselves and others around them (due to mental health issues e.g. psychosis or drugs) and/or is moving too much to be given treatment. This would be likely due to what happened earlier.
| |
Apply cream
|-
| |
Apply cream
| |
Medically valid as a form of barrier dressing to improve wound healing.
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=4 |
Ask patient to rate pain level
| width="33%" rowspan=4 |
Useful in the sense that it provides the doctor with the means to ensure that the patient is receiving adequate analgesia during conditions of chronic and acute pain.
| |
0-8: Massage scalp
|-
| |
9: Admit for observation
|-
| |
10: Laser eye removal
|-
| |
Other response: Sequence genome
|-
| |
Massage scalp
| |
This would belong more to the domain of palliative care and reflexology rather than being an accepted medical treatment.
| |
Patient is healthy
|-
| |
Patient is healthy
| |
A subjective assessment of the health patient is often helpful in ruling out certain diagnoses. For example, one is less likely to suspect cancer in a fit, healthy 30 year old than a thin, lethargic 50 year old.
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Admit for observation
| |
Useful in the context of 'watchful waiting', in which the doctor may be unsure if the patient actually has a condition that they suspect that the patient has. By keeping the patient on the ward for a few days, the clinician can monitor the progression of symptoms and rapidly initiate adequate treatment if medically warranted.
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Laser eye removal
| |
This is not a standard medical procedure, and not a good idea. This could be a pun on laser eye surgery where a laser is used to correct visual problems (e.g. short-sightedness), or laser hair and tattoo removal. Laser eye removal is also discussed in [[1681: Laser Products]].
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Sequence genome
| |
Useful in the association of extremely rare point mutations with an organic illness. See for instance the Genome 10K Project or the Cancer Genome Atlas. Or in diagnosing extremely rare mutations that are not picked up by most commercial DNA screening tests (e.g. kidney failure due to INF2 mutation).
| |
Apply tourniquet
|-
| |
Apply tourniquet
| |
Useful to stop acute bleeding from an injured extremity, but if it is drawn too tightly it can cause neuromuscular damage.
| |
Perform autopsy
|-
| |
Perform autopsy
| | The patient has died, and Watson is being ordered to determine the cause of death. Note that the only way to reach this state is from "apply tourniquet", implying the cause of death is strangulation via tourniquet.
| | END STATE (taking the title text into account, the only possible one)
|-
| |
Cauterize
| |
Cauterizing is done with a heated instrument or a chemical to burn the skin or flesh of (a wound), typically to stop bleeding or prevent the wound from becoming infected. This could be useful if there is an open wound, but can close tissue damage and other complications.
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Inject oxygen
| |
May be fatal as injecting gases directly to the blood vessels can cause a serious embolism if it blocks blood flow to the brain or coronary arteries. However, if the oxygen is injected slowly into the venous circulation, it may be survivable as the bubbles may simply collect in the lungs where the oxygen is then slowly reabsorbed into the blood.
| |
Comfort patient
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Comfort patient
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Psychological support to the patient and relatives is often useful after breaking news of a poor prognosis. It may also be useful in subduing the agitated or psychotic patient.
| |
Comforting successful: Review medical history
|-
| |
Comforting unsuccessful: Subdue patient
|-
| |
Review medical history
| |
Important early step, rather too late and conditional.
| |
Skin grafts
|-
| |
Skin grafts
| |
Only indicated if massive areas of the skin are damaged (typically due to burns)
| |
Count number of limbs
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Count number of limbs
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Not really relevant in medicine, but may be of use to know the reason behind any missing or extra limbs on seeing the patient though a through review of the medical history will render this point moot. Probably a little late to be noticing this now.
| |
Fewer than 100: Measure Vitamin D
|-
| |
100+: Remove extra limbs
|-
| |
Remove extra limbs
| |
Medically indicated in cases of polymelia either due to cosmetic purposes or because the extra limbs pose a direct threat to the health of the baby.
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Measure vitamin D
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Valid in diagnosis of bone related issues, for example if multiple or comminuted fractures were being counted as additional limbs/bones.
| |
Good: Check whether build environment is sane
|-
| |
Bad: Blood loss?
|-
| |
Check whether build environment is sane
| |
Could be technical reference to the installation of the algorithm in the robot, or could relate to the sanity of:
*The robot doctor
*The patient undergoing this procedure (before or after reaching this part of the process)
*The person who programmed the robot to perform this flowchart
*The person who allowed this state of affairs to occur (I'm looking at you [[Black Hat]])

This could also be a reference to the title text for [[371: Compiler Complaint]].

NB: Whether the build environment is sane is irrelevant to the flowchart.
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
|-
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
| |
Tepid sponging may be indicated if the patient has a high fever. Could also refer to internally rinsing patient with saline solution i.e. providing intravenous sodium chloride to boost circulating volume or to perform peritoneal dialysis.
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient phone battery low?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Invalid in medical terminology, could be a technological metaphor for the patient's consciousness or stamina. "Your life-force is running out"
| |
Yes: Defibrillate
|-
| |
No: Sync photos from camera
|-
| |
Defibrillate
| |
Indicated in cases where there is ventricular fibrillation, and to a lesser extent in other heart rhythm disorders, but would not help with a phone.
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
|-
| |
Sync photos from camera
| |
Definitely invalid. Could refer to the robot attempting to backup photos from a camera before attempting to repair it/attempting to back-up patient's consciousness.
| |
Administer general anesthesia
|-
| |
Administer general anesthesia
| |
Valid, but not at this stage. Only used when the procedure will invoke unnecessary distress or pain to the patient if they were to be awake beforehand.
| |
Discharge patient (right)
|-
| |
Discharge patient (right)
| |
Acceptable in general, but the patient would most likely be dead in both cases as life is not possible without organs, and general anesthesia often requires mechanical ventilation to support breathing.
| |
END STATE (before you read the title text)
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Blood loss?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Useful. Patient may die if this clinical sign is missed. However, it should be noted that there is no option for "No blood loss".
| |
Minor: Patient address changed?
|-
| |
Substantial: Apply cream
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Patient address changed?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Useful to ensure that the organisation has current contact details for the patient in the event that they may need to contact the patient (e.g. to arrange further appointments)
| |
Yes: Request organ donation
|-
| |
No: Patient is healthy
|-
| |
Request organ donation
| |
Generally done prior to registering an individual for a driving licence or to a medical practice, or to the relatives of the deceased if consent had not been acquired beforehand.
|Remove organs
|-
| |
Remove organs
| |
The only organs which can be safely removed from a living person without resulting in serious, chronic medical issues are the kidneys/lungs (only one can be removed), spleen, part of the liver (as long as one lobe is left it can regrow to its original size) and colon (usually consisting of the appendix only). With some serious lifestyle modifications, the pancreas, pituitary gland, frontal lobe of brain, half of the brain, second kidney, adrenal glands, bladder, and most of the gut can be removed. The heart can be removed from the body and replaced with an artificial pump for a few months at the most. However, such organ removals are only indicated if there is a genuine clinical need to do so due to the non-negligible risk of death associated with these operations.
| Discharge patient (right)
|-
| |
Title text
| |
The glitch in the algorithm causes it to continue in spite of having just discharged the patient
| Hunt down and capture patient.
|}

==Transcript==
:Heading: A guide to the medical diagnostic and treatment system used by IBM's '''Watson''' system
:[A flowchart with the following steps is shown, starting from "start":]
:{| class="wikitable"
| | Step
| | Following step
|-
| |
Start
| |
Draw Blood
|-
| |
Draw Blood
| |
Record patient’s name
|-
| |
Record patient’s name
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
|-
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
|-
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
|-
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
| |
Is patient coughing up blood?
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Is patient coughing up blood?
| |
Yes: Gather blood and return it to body
|-
| |
No: Is patient still here?
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Is patient still here?
| |
Yes: Record pulse rate
|-
| |
No: Hunt down and capture patient
|-
| |
Hunt down and capture patient
| |
Is patient still here?
|-
| |
Gather blood and return it to body
| |
Record pulse rate
|-
| |
Record pulse rate
| |
Is patient screaming?
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Is patient screaming?
| |
Yes: Ignore
|-
| |
No: Check blood O2 saturation
|-
| rowspan=2 ` |
Check blood O2 saturation
| |
>50%: Remove and inspect skeleton
|-
| |
<50%: Inject oxygen
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Remove and inspect skeleton
| |
Too many bones: Is fluid coming out of patient?
|-
| |
Too few bones: Request consult with human doctor
|-
| |
Request consult with human doctor
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
|-
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
| |
Discharge patient
|-
| |
Discharge patient
| |
END STATE (before you read the title text)
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Is fluid coming out of patient
| |
No: Squeeze patient
|-
| |
Yes: What color?
|-
| |
Squeeze patient
| |
Is fluid coming out of patient
|-
| rowspan=4 |
What color?
| |
Yellow: Squeeze Patient
|-
| |
Black: Activate Sprinklers
|-
| |
Red: Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Green: Cauterize
|-
| |
Activate sprinklers
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| |
Subdue patient
| |
Apply cream
|-
| |
Apply cream
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| rowspan=4 |
Ask patient to rate pain level
| |
0-8: Massage scalp
|-
| |
9: Admit for observation
|-
| |
10: Laser eye removal
|-
| |
Other response: Sequence genome
|-
| |
Massage scalp
| |
Patient is healthy
|-
| |
Patient is healthy
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Admit for observation
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Laser eye removal
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Sequence genome
| |
Apply tourniquet
|-
| |
Apply tourniquet
| |
Perform autopsy
|-
| |
Perform autopsy
| | [End state, and if taking the title text into account, the only possible one]
|-
| |
Cauterize
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Inject oxygen
| |
Comfort patient
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Comfort patient
| |
Comforting successful: Review medical history
|-
| |
Comforting unsuccessful: Subdue patient
|-
| |
Review medical history
| |
Skin grafts
|-
| |
Skin grafts
| |
Count number of limbs
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Count number of limbs
| |
Fewer than 100: Measure Vitamin D
|-
| |
100+: Remove extra limbs
|-
| |
Remove extra limbs
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Measure vitamin D
| |
Good: Check whether build environment is sane
|-
| |
Bad: Blood loss?
|-
| |
Check whether build environment is sane
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
|-
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Is patient phone battery low?
| |
Yes: Defibrillate
|-
| |
No: Sync photos from camera
|-
| |
Defibrillate
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
|-
| |
Sync photos from camera
| |
Administer general anesthesia
|-
| |
Administer general anesthesia
| |
Discharge patient
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Blood loss?
| |
Minor: Patient address changed?
|-
| |
Substantial: Apply cream
|-
| rowspan=2 |
Patient address changed?
| |
Yes: Request organ donation
|-
| |
No: Patient is healthy
|-
| |
Request organ donation
|Remove organs
|-
| |
Remove organs
| Discharge patient
|-
| |
Discharge patient
| |
[End State: See title text]
|}

==Trivia==
*The [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/1/15/20151222113107!watson_medical_algorithm.png original comic] was updated after it was first posted.
**The decisions for number of limbs were swapped so it made sense.
**In the corrected version it was only if you had more than 100 limbs that Watson would remove the extra limbs.
**Before it removed limbs if you had less than 100 (i.e. always, and now never.)
**This actually opened up (a slim) chance to survive to the right discharge patient box. Although it would not matter according to the title text...

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Flowcharts]]
[[Category:Artificial Intelligence]]
[[Category:Computers]]
[[Category:Sarcasm]]

Talk:1940: The Food Size Cycle

2020-03-12T08:28:37Z

162.158.78.160:

Does panini have a different meaning in the USA? In the UK, it basically means a sandwich made in a flattish rectangular roll, usually toasted (sometimes also the roll itself). They can be quite large; not necessarily smaller than sandwiches in general.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 16:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:From my experience its the flatishness off panini that make them more comfortable to eat, but who knows maybe we're on the end of the panini cycle. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 23:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:I think you're inadverently proving Randall's point. :) First I ever heard of paninis must have been something like 15 years ago, and the buns were slightly longer than my (admittedly large) hand, putting their length about the same as standard sandwich bread, but a smaller width making them smaller than a sandwich. I do note that if I see panini rolls in the grocery store, they're still that small size. Sounds to me like this size arms race is well underway for paninis where you live (I like never order them, but I suspect here too). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:15, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:: I'm pretty sure that when they first appeared widely over here they were already substantially larger than that. Perhaps we just imported already outsized ones from the US? Also, at that point, sandwiches generally hadn't undergone much inflation over here, so panini(s) and sandwiches have probably gone through a parallel expansion. The grocery stores here do also sell hand-sized panini rolls, but those are a relatively recent introduction, and they just match the general size of the rest of their roll selection.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 10:10, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it generally known that "panini" is the plural form of the Italian word "panino"? We don't say "burritos" or "taquitos" for one example, so why "panini"? [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:46, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: But we do say 'a biscotti'. Probably because when selling them you would advertise in the plural, and those not familiar with Italian linguistics would not know how to construct a singular from it, and so would simply use the word as it stands. As a result, of course, panini and biscotti are, through use, now correct ''english'' singulars.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: perhaps because of its unfortunate similarity to other English words, and the fortunate immaturity of the human race.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 00:37, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:As a non-Italian speaker, I can say I was unaware "panini" was a plural word (though I feel vaguely familiar with the concept that Italian pluralizes words with an i like that). That'll be why, of course, most people are likewise unaware, and it has caught on. Especially considering that we'll often see "panini" itself pluralized, as "paninis". Reminds me of when I see things like "NASA Association", the final A of the acronym already means Association. "Scuba Apparatus", the A already stands for Apparatus. Etc. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Expanding on the theme, there are rivers in the U.K. routinely referred to as the "River Avon", ignoring the fact that "Avon" already means "River"... [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: We may not say "a burritos" or "a taquitos", but we do say "a tamale" and there is no such word in Spanish. The singular in Spanish is "tamal"; "tamale" is a backformation from the Spanish plural "tamales". [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.106|172.68.34.106]] 02:06, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
:In English, words ending in "i" often lack an explicit plural form, since many words which end in a "s" or "sh" sound use an "i" ending when pluralized. Illiteracy has lessened this somewhat in recent decades: The correct plural for octopus is octopi & the correct plural for virus is virii. Saying "octopuses" & "viruses" are modernisms which have become so prevalent that they are now widely accepted, but grammatically they are incorrect.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
::The correct plural for ''octopus'' is not ''octopi'', because ''octopus'' is not a Latin word, it is a Greek one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.163|162.158.154.163]] 15:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)Jack Rudd
:::''Octopuses'' (the most commonly used), ''octopi'' (a misguided Latinisation), and ''octopodes'' (a Greekification) are all acceptable English plurals for ''octopus''. You can't really apply rules to determine whether things are "correct" in language; the only meaningful way in which something can be said to be "correct" is through common usage / understanding. If enough of us decided the plural of ''octopus'' was ''octoplops'', then that would be correct.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.244|141.101.98.244]] 16:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
:::It's not a Latin word or a Greek word, it's an English word. As such it follows english language rules which dictate that because of its ending, its plural should end in "i" rather than "s". It may or may not ALSO occur in those other languages, but that has no bearing whatsoever on its english pluralization. By way of comparison, consider the English word "Hinterland" and the German word "Hinterland" - they're spelled the same, they mean the same thing, but the correct plural of the English word is "Hinterlands" whereas the correct plural of the German word is "Hinterlande" or "Hinterlander"; each is correct in its own language but incorrect in the other. Similarly, "octopodes" may be correct in Greek but is not correct in English. Additionally, I would like to call out the overt fallaciousness of the implication that people have Latin in mind when they use a plural ending in "i". I guarantee you that nobody who says "Octopi" does do because they think the word derives from Latin; I would bet money that the vast majority of them have not considered the word's origin at all. 08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah, but what about the slider effect? Mini versions of (in this case burgers) to be served in a collective? --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] ([[User talk:Thomcat|talk]]) 17:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Related, perhaps, is the sizing issue. Some places sell medium, large, and extra large drinks. Note no small.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.154|108.162.216.154]] 20:29, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
: And the 'regular' is what used to be the 'large'; the 'small', if it exists, is what used to be the 'regular' - to try to make you feel like you're short-changing yourself if you buy a normal sized one.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:27, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The alt-text seems backwards: The way Randall's presented it, it looks like he's asserting that thick crusts get thinner, then the cycle repeats. This matches anecdotal evidence based upon the style favored by my local pizza shops over the years, but more research is needed. Thin crusts also tend to be cheaper to make, so... [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:08, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
: I don't think so - 'deep-dish' is listed first, as the one on the original track; 'thin crust' is then the one on the replacement track. The original pizzas, as imported from Italy, would have been thin crust. These then got thicker until they begat deep dish, and, indeed, beyond, with the ridiculous proliferation of stuffed and sandwich crusts. Then, as some people lost patience with this, there was a trend to re-introduce the thin crust (the replacement track).[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:25, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Some original pizza from Italy had thick crust. My uncle, an immigrant to the US from Bari, Italy, made extremely thick crust pizza at his restaurant in the 1960s, almost a pizza bread. Pizza Hut initially advertised their 'deep dish' as 'Sicilian Pan Pizza'. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 21:54, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Thick crust is listed first, giving it precedence. To get thinner or thicker would be a logical progression which can loop back without significant alteration, whereas a replacement track would imply calzones, or taco-pizza, or some other such alternative to traditional pizza. By the simple fact that he listed thick crust first, reading it in English implies a progression from thick to thin. Also, see 75.166's reference to Sicilian pizza: I'm pretty sure thin crust is a modernism; Pizza crust is not unleavened, it is meant to rise. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Portion inflation makes dietary information misleading. One would be hard pressed to find a muffin of the size used in nutrition information guides.
Recipe books show similar inflation, recipes as printed make larger amounts of food, but they are listed as feeding fewer people than they used to. [https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/7-expert-tricks-calorie-portion-control]
Analagous inflation can also be seen in clothes sizes. What used to be a size 8 is now labeled a size 4. Regular becomes "slim cut." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.127|172.68.189.127]] 00:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is the ratio between subsequent food size bifurcations consistent with the first Feigenbaum constant? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feigenbaum_constants] [[User:Docstout|Docstout]] ([[User talk:Docstout|talk]]) 01:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Does this remind anyone of a Hertzsprung–Russell diagram? [[User:Capncanuck|Capncanuck]] ([[User talk:Capncanuck|talk]]) 02:51, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Yes. It reminds me of a Hertzsprung-Russell diagram, but being inversed. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.188|162.158.88.188]] 13:42, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
:That's what I thought too, except its mirror reversed along the diagonal08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

BTW, I find it amusing that this comic came out the next day after a report on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation shrinkflation] of Mondelez chocolates in Europe hit the news here ... --kavol, [[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.197|141.101.96.197]] 07:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is this phenomenon specific to the US? I don't really recognize it here in the Netherlands, but the US has a reputation of having giant versions of everything: food, cars, people (width mostly) & so on. Maybe specific to a "big is beautiful" cultural attitude? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.187|162.158.111.187]] 15:22, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:This happens, albeit to a considerably lesser extend, in the UK. Here, the phenomenon is restricted primarily to American fast food restaurants. I've eaten in America and was able to get 6 meals from the left-over food from a single-portion meal at Pinky's Pupu Bar & Grill in Kailua, Hawai`i. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.96|141.101.105.96]] 21:31, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Living in Canada, I find it amusing to note that my Netherlands-born-and-raised mother often complains about large portion sizes, about how anything she might order is way more food than she can eat (and in fact has this weird effect on her that a large amount of food makes the food unappetizing to her). As far as I know, this is a North American phenomenon, but moreso in the States. For example, if I go to McDonald's and order a trio, and tell them to Supersize it, that means change the Regular drink and Regular fries to Larges. In the States, apparently "Supersize" is its own size, this changes them to a size above Large that doesn't even exist here. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Common in the Netherlands also: https://huisvlijt.com/2016/11/krimpflatie-minder-product-zelfde-prijs.html, https://forum.fok.nl/topic/2255412. Though some of the examples seem to be normal inflation combined with downsizing. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.4|162.158.222.4]] 09:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it just me, or did this look like a reference to BitCoin to you when you first read it. Big block size, forks, the creation of new coins... I think Randall was really just making fun of BitCoin, because it seems like an otherwise boring topic --vikarjramun
: I think it might just be you. :) I suspect it's that you've read and heard more about BitCoin than I have. All I know about BitCoin is that it's an online-only virtual currency almost exclusively used for criminal activity (ransoms for ransomware, selling off stolen pictures hacked from celebrities, etc), and that their price has gotten ridiculous (like a ransomware I heard about asking only 3 BitCoins, amounted to about $2,000 at the time. Idiots outpriced themselves, the only people who'd pay that are companies big enough to have backup solutions which make it unnecessary). I don't know any of these phrases in relation to BitCoin, and out of context here they have no logical connection (except creating being self-explanatory), they clearly require the context. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:29, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1940: The Food Size Cycle

2020-03-12T08:21:17Z

162.158.78.160:

Does panini have a different meaning in the USA? In the UK, it basically means a sandwich made in a flattish rectangular roll, usually toasted (sometimes also the roll itself). They can be quite large; not necessarily smaller than sandwiches in general.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 16:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:From my experience its the flatishness off panini that make them more comfortable to eat, but who knows maybe we're on the end of the panini cycle. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 23:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:I think you're inadverently proving Randall's point. :) First I ever heard of paninis must have been something like 15 years ago, and the buns were slightly longer than my (admittedly large) hand, putting their length about the same as standard sandwich bread, but a smaller width making them smaller than a sandwich. I do note that if I see panini rolls in the grocery store, they're still that small size. Sounds to me like this size arms race is well underway for paninis where you live (I like never order them, but I suspect here too). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:15, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:: I'm pretty sure that when they first appeared widely over here they were already substantially larger than that. Perhaps we just imported already outsized ones from the US? Also, at that point, sandwiches generally hadn't undergone much inflation over here, so panini(s) and sandwiches have probably gone through a parallel expansion. The grocery stores here do also sell hand-sized panini rolls, but those are a relatively recent introduction, and they just match the general size of the rest of their roll selection.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 10:10, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it generally known that "panini" is the plural form of the Italian word "panino"? We don't say "burritos" or "taquitos" for one example, so why "panini"? [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:46, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: But we do say 'a biscotti'. Probably because when selling them you would advertise in the plural, and those not familiar with Italian linguistics would not know how to construct a singular from it, and so would simply use the word as it stands. As a result, of course, panini and biscotti are, through use, now correct ''english'' singulars.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: perhaps because of its unfortunate similarity to other English words, and the fortunate immaturity of the human race.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 00:37, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:As a non-Italian speaker, I can say I was unaware "panini" was a plural word (though I feel vaguely familiar with the concept that Italian pluralizes words with an i like that). That'll be why, of course, most people are likewise unaware, and it has caught on. Especially considering that we'll often see "panini" itself pluralized, as "paninis". Reminds me of when I see things like "NASA Association", the final A of the acronym already means Association. "Scuba Apparatus", the A already stands for Apparatus. Etc. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Expanding on the theme, there are rivers in the U.K. routinely referred to as the "River Avon", ignoring the fact that "Avon" already means "River"... [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: We may not say "a burritos" or "a taquitos", but we do say "a tamale" and there is no such word in Spanish. The singular in Spanish is "tamal"; "tamale" is a backformation from the Spanish plural "tamales". [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.106|172.68.34.106]] 02:06, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
:In English, words ending in "i" often lack an explicit plural form, since many words which end in a "s" or "sh" sound use an "i" ending when pluralized. Illiteracy has lessened this somewhat in recent decades: The correct plural for octopus is octopi & the correct plural for virus is virii. Saying "octopuses" & "viruses" are modernisms which have become so prevalent that they are now widely accepted, but grammatically they are incorrect.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
::The correct plural for ''octopus'' is not ''octopi'', because ''octopus'' is not a Latin word, it is a Greek one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.163|162.158.154.163]] 15:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)Jack Rudd
:::''Octopuses'' (the most commonly used), ''octopi'' (a misguided Latinisation), and ''octopodes'' (a Greekification) are all acceptable English plurals for ''octopus''. You can't really apply rules to determine whether things are "correct" in language; the only meaningful way in which something can be said to be "correct" is through common usage / understanding. If enough of us decided the plural of ''octopus'' was ''octoplops'', then that would be correct.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.244|141.101.98.244]] 16:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
:::It's not a Latin word or a Greek word, it's an English word. As such it follows english language rules which dictate that because of its ending, its plural should end in "i" rather than "s". It may or may not ALSO occur in those other languages, but that has no bearing whatsoever on its english pluralization. By way of comparison, consider the English word "Hinterland" and the German word "Hinterland" - they're spelled the same, they mean the same thing, but the correct plural of the English word is "Hinterlands" whereas the correct plural of the German word is "Hinterlande" or "Hinterlander"; each is correct in its own language but incorrect in the other 08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah, but what about the slider effect? Mini versions of (in this case burgers) to be served in a collective? --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] ([[User talk:Thomcat|talk]]) 17:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Related, perhaps, is the sizing issue. Some places sell medium, large, and extra large drinks. Note no small.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.154|108.162.216.154]] 20:29, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
: And the 'regular' is what used to be the 'large'; the 'small', if it exists, is what used to be the 'regular' - to try to make you feel like you're short-changing yourself if you buy a normal sized one.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:27, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The alt-text seems backwards: The way Randall's presented it, it looks like he's asserting that thick crusts get thinner, then the cycle repeats. This matches anecdotal evidence based upon the style favored by my local pizza shops over the years, but more research is needed. Thin crusts also tend to be cheaper to make, so... [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:08, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
: I don't think so - 'deep-dish' is listed first, as the one on the original track; 'thin crust' is then the one on the replacement track. The original pizzas, as imported from Italy, would have been thin crust. These then got thicker until they begat deep dish, and, indeed, beyond, with the ridiculous proliferation of stuffed and sandwich crusts. Then, as some people lost patience with this, there was a trend to re-introduce the thin crust (the replacement track).[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:25, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Some original pizza from Italy had thick crust. My uncle, an immigrant to the US from Bari, Italy, made extremely thick crust pizza at his restaurant in the 1960s, almost a pizza bread. Pizza Hut initially advertised their 'deep dish' as 'Sicilian Pan Pizza'. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 21:54, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Thick crust is listed first, giving it precedence. To get thinner or thicker would be a logical progression which can loop back without significant alteration, whereas a replacement track would imply calzones, or taco-pizza, or some other such alternative to traditional pizza. By the simple fact that he listed thick crust first, reading it in English implies a progression from thick to thin. Also, see 75.166's reference to Sicilian pizza: I'm pretty sure thin crust is a modernism; Pizza crust is not unleavened, it is meant to rise. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Portion inflation makes dietary information misleading. One would be hard pressed to find a muffin of the size used in nutrition information guides.
Recipe books show similar inflation, recipes as printed make larger amounts of food, but they are listed as feeding fewer people than they used to. [https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/7-expert-tricks-calorie-portion-control]
Analagous inflation can also be seen in clothes sizes. What used to be a size 8 is now labeled a size 4. Regular becomes "slim cut." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.127|172.68.189.127]] 00:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is the ratio between subsequent food size bifurcations consistent with the first Feigenbaum constant? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feigenbaum_constants] [[User:Docstout|Docstout]] ([[User talk:Docstout|talk]]) 01:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Does this remind anyone of a Hertzsprung–Russell diagram? [[User:Capncanuck|Capncanuck]] ([[User talk:Capncanuck|talk]]) 02:51, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Yes. It reminds me of a Hertzsprung-Russell diagram, but being inversed. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.188|162.158.88.188]] 13:42, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
:That's what I thought too, except its mirror reversed along the diagonal08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

BTW, I find it amusing that this comic came out the next day after a report on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation shrinkflation] of Mondelez chocolates in Europe hit the news here ... --kavol, [[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.197|141.101.96.197]] 07:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is this phenomenon specific to the US? I don't really recognize it here in the Netherlands, but the US has a reputation of having giant versions of everything: food, cars, people (width mostly) & so on. Maybe specific to a "big is beautiful" cultural attitude? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.187|162.158.111.187]] 15:22, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:This happens, albeit to a considerably lesser extend, in the UK. Here, the phenomenon is restricted primarily to American fast food restaurants. I've eaten in America and was able to get 6 meals from the left-over food from a single-portion meal at Pinky's Pupu Bar & Grill in Kailua, Hawai`i. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.96|141.101.105.96]] 21:31, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Living in Canada, I find it amusing to note that my Netherlands-born-and-raised mother often complains about large portion sizes, about how anything she might order is way more food than she can eat (and in fact has this weird effect on her that a large amount of food makes the food unappetizing to her). As far as I know, this is a North American phenomenon, but moreso in the States. For example, if I go to McDonald's and order a trio, and tell them to Supersize it, that means change the Regular drink and Regular fries to Larges. In the States, apparently "Supersize" is its own size, this changes them to a size above Large that doesn't even exist here. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Common in the Netherlands also: https://huisvlijt.com/2016/11/krimpflatie-minder-product-zelfde-prijs.html, https://forum.fok.nl/topic/2255412. Though some of the examples seem to be normal inflation combined with downsizing. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.4|162.158.222.4]] 09:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it just me, or did this look like a reference to BitCoin to you when you first read it. Big block size, forks, the creation of new coins... I think Randall was really just making fun of BitCoin, because it seems like an otherwise boring topic --vikarjramun
: I think it might just be you. :) I suspect it's that you've read and heard more about BitCoin than I have. All I know about BitCoin is that it's an online-only virtual currency almost exclusively used for criminal activity (ransoms for ransomware, selling off stolen pictures hacked from celebrities, etc), and that their price has gotten ridiculous (like a ransomware I heard about asking only 3 BitCoins, amounted to about $2,000 at the time. Idiots outpriced themselves, the only people who'd pay that are companies big enough to have backup solutions which make it unnecessary). I don't know any of these phrases in relation to BitCoin, and out of context here they have no logical connection (except creating being self-explanatory), they clearly require the context. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:29, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1940: The Food Size Cycle

2020-03-12T08:20:03Z

162.158.78.160:

Does panini have a different meaning in the USA? In the UK, it basically means a sandwich made in a flattish rectangular roll, usually toasted (sometimes also the roll itself). They can be quite large; not necessarily smaller than sandwiches in general.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 16:44, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:From my experience its the flatishness off panini that make them more comfortable to eat, but who knows maybe we're on the end of the panini cycle. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 23:43, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
:I think you're inadverently proving Randall's point. :) First I ever heard of paninis must have been something like 15 years ago, and the buns were slightly longer than my (admittedly large) hand, putting their length about the same as standard sandwich bread, but a smaller width making them smaller than a sandwich. I do note that if I see panini rolls in the grocery store, they're still that small size. Sounds to me like this size arms race is well underway for paninis where you live (I like never order them, but I suspect here too). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:15, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:: I'm pretty sure that when they first appeared widely over here they were already substantially larger than that. Perhaps we just imported already outsized ones from the US? Also, at that point, sandwiches generally hadn't undergone much inflation over here, so panini(s) and sandwiches have probably gone through a parallel expansion. The grocery stores here do also sell hand-sized panini rolls, but those are a relatively recent introduction, and they just match the general size of the rest of their roll selection.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 10:10, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it generally known that "panini" is the plural form of the Italian word "panino"? We don't say "burritos" or "taquitos" for one example, so why "panini"? [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:46, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: But we do say 'a biscotti'. Probably because when selling them you would advertise in the plural, and those not familiar with Italian linguistics would not know how to construct a singular from it, and so would simply use the word as it stands. As a result, of course, panini and biscotti are, through use, now correct ''english'' singulars.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:34, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: perhaps because of its unfortunate similarity to other English words, and the fortunate immaturity of the human race.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.9|162.158.74.9]] 00:37, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
:As a non-Italian speaker, I can say I was unaware "panini" was a plural word (though I feel vaguely familiar with the concept that Italian pluralizes words with an i like that). That'll be why, of course, most people are likewise unaware, and it has caught on. Especially considering that we'll often see "panini" itself pluralized, as "paninis". Reminds me of when I see things like "NASA Association", the final A of the acronym already means Association. "Scuba Apparatus", the A already stands for Apparatus. Etc. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Expanding on the theme, there are rivers in the U.K. routinely referred to as the "River Avon", ignoring the fact that "Avon" already means "River"... [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 07:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: We may not say "a burritos" or "a taquitos", but we do say "a tamale" and there is no such word in Spanish. The singular in Spanish is "tamal"; "tamale" is a backformation from the Spanish plural "tamales". [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.106|172.68.34.106]] 02:06, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
:In English, words ending in "i" often lack an explicit plural form, since many words which end in a "s" or "sh" sound use an "i" ending when pluralized. Illiteracy has lessened this somewhat in recent decades: The correct plural for octopus is octopi & the correct plural for virus is virii. Saying "octopuses" & "viruses" are modernisms which have become so prevalent that they are now widely accepted, but grammatically they are incorrect.[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:51, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
::The correct plural for ''octopus'' is not ''octopi'', because ''octopus'' is not a Latin word, it is a Greek one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.163|162.158.154.163]] 15:21, 31 January 2018 (UTC)Jack Rudd
:::''Octopuses'' (the most commonly used), ''octopi'' (a misguided Latinisation), and ''octopodes'' (a Greekification) are all acceptable English plurals for ''octopus''. You can't really apply rules to determine whether things are "correct" in language; the only meaningful way in which something can be said to be "correct" is through common usage / understanding. If enough of us decided the plural of ''octopus'' was ''octoplops'', then that would be correct.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.244|141.101.98.244]] 16:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
:::It's not a Latin word or a Greek word, it's an English word. As such it follows english language rules which dictate that because of its ending, its plural should end in "i" rather than "s". It may or may not ALSO occur in those other languages, but that has no bearing whatsoever on its english pluralization. By way of comparison, consider the English word "Hinterland" and the German word Hinterland - they're spelled the same, they mean the same thing, but the correct plural of the English word is "Hinterlands" whereas the correct plural of the German word is "Hinterlande" or "Hinterlander"; each is correct in its own language but incorrect in the other 08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Ah, but what about the slider effect? Mini versions of (in this case burgers) to be served in a collective? --[[User:Thomcat|Thomcat]] ([[User talk:Thomcat|talk]]) 17:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Related, perhaps, is the sizing issue. Some places sell medium, large, and extra large drinks. Note no small.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.154|108.162.216.154]] 20:29, 10 January 2018 (UTC) Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net>
: And the 'regular' is what used to be the 'large'; the 'small', if it exists, is what used to be the 'regular' - to try to make you feel like you're short-changing yourself if you buy a normal sized one.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:27, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

The alt-text seems backwards: The way Randall's presented it, it looks like he's asserting that thick crusts get thinner, then the cycle repeats. This matches anecdotal evidence based upon the style favored by my local pizza shops over the years, but more research is needed. Thin crusts also tend to be cheaper to make, so... [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:08, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
: I don't think so - 'deep-dish' is listed first, as the one on the original track; 'thin crust' is then the one on the replacement track. The original pizzas, as imported from Italy, would have been thin crust. These then got thicker until they begat deep dish, and, indeed, beyond, with the ridiculous proliferation of stuffed and sandwich crusts. Then, as some people lost patience with this, there was a trend to re-introduce the thin crust (the replacement track).[[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.16|141.101.76.16]] 09:25, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Some original pizza from Italy had thick crust. My uncle, an immigrant to the US from Bari, Italy, made extremely thick crust pizza at his restaurant in the 1960s, almost a pizza bread. Pizza Hut initially advertised their 'deep dish' as 'Sicilian Pan Pizza'. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.166|162.158.75.166]] 21:54, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Thick crust is listed first, giving it precedence. To get thinner or thicker would be a logical progression which can loop back without significant alteration, whereas a replacement track would imply calzones, or taco-pizza, or some other such alternative to traditional pizza. By the simple fact that he listed thick crust first, reading it in English implies a progression from thick to thin. Also, see 75.166's reference to Sicilian pizza: I'm pretty sure thin crust is a modernism; Pizza crust is not unleavened, it is meant to rise. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:38, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Portion inflation makes dietary information misleading. One would be hard pressed to find a muffin of the size used in nutrition information guides.
Recipe books show similar inflation, recipes as printed make larger amounts of food, but they are listed as feeding fewer people than they used to. [https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/7-expert-tricks-calorie-portion-control]
Analagous inflation can also be seen in clothes sizes. What used to be a size 8 is now labeled a size 4. Regular becomes "slim cut." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.127|172.68.189.127]] 00:01, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is the ratio between subsequent food size bifurcations consistent with the first Feigenbaum constant? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feigenbaum_constants] [[User:Docstout|Docstout]] ([[User talk:Docstout|talk]]) 01:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Does this remind anyone of a Hertzsprung–Russell diagram? [[User:Capncanuck|Capncanuck]] ([[User talk:Capncanuck|talk]]) 02:51, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:Yes. It reminds me of a Hertzsprung-Russell diagram, but being inversed. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.188|162.158.88.188]] 13:42, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
:That's what I thought too, except its mirror reversed along the diagonal08:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

BTW, I find it amusing that this comic came out the next day after a report on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrinkflation shrinkflation] of Mondelez chocolates in Europe hit the news here ... --kavol, [[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.197|141.101.96.197]] 07:57, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Is this phenomenon specific to the US? I don't really recognize it here in the Netherlands, but the US has a reputation of having giant versions of everything: food, cars, people (width mostly) & so on. Maybe specific to a "big is beautiful" cultural attitude? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.187|162.158.111.187]] 15:22, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
:This happens, albeit to a considerably lesser extend, in the UK. Here, the phenomenon is restricted primarily to American fast food restaurants. I've eaten in America and was able to get 6 meals from the left-over food from a single-portion meal at Pinky's Pupu Bar & Grill in Kailua, Hawai`i. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.96|141.101.105.96]] 21:31, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
: Living in Canada, I find it amusing to note that my Netherlands-born-and-raised mother often complains about large portion sizes, about how anything she might order is way more food than she can eat (and in fact has this weird effect on her that a large amount of food makes the food unappetizing to her). As far as I know, this is a North American phenomenon, but moreso in the States. For example, if I go to McDonald's and order a trio, and tell them to Supersize it, that means change the Regular drink and Regular fries to Larges. In the States, apparently "Supersize" is its own size, this changes them to a size above Large that doesn't even exist here. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:38, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
: Common in the Netherlands also: https://huisvlijt.com/2016/11/krimpflatie-minder-product-zelfde-prijs.html, https://forum.fok.nl/topic/2255412. Though some of the examples seem to be normal inflation combined with downsizing. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.4|162.158.222.4]] 09:29, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Is it just me, or did this look like a reference to BitCoin to you when you first read it. Big block size, forks, the creation of new coins... I think Randall was really just making fun of BitCoin, because it seems like an otherwise boring topic --vikarjramun
: I think it might just be you. :) I suspect it's that you've read and heard more about BitCoin than I have. All I know about BitCoin is that it's an online-only virtual currency almost exclusively used for criminal activity (ransoms for ransomware, selling off stolen pictures hacked from celebrities, etc), and that their price has gotten ridiculous (like a ransomware I heard about asking only 3 BitCoins, amounted to about $2,000 at the time. Idiots outpriced themselves, the only people who'd pay that are companies big enough to have backup solutions which make it unnecessary). I don't know any of these phrases in relation to BitCoin, and out of context here they have no logical connection (except creating being self-explanatory), they clearly require the context. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:29, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:1348: Before the Internet

2020-03-11T07:07:47Z

162.158.78.160:

I'm pretty sure that Randall doesn't make this mistake, but "Before the Internet" and "Before the Web" are two very different things in a way that old fogeys like myself (and him) tend to mutter on about when anyone younger than maybe 40 make the mistake of conflating the two.
If that's Exploit Mom, she'd probably be too young to ''really'' know times pre-Internet in the truest sense. (Although "before the layperson ''knew'' about the Internet" could be placed somewhere in the mid-to-late '90s, which ''is'' after the early '90s inception of the Web.)
Enough pedantry. Someone needs to make a more useful comment than the above, and quickly! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.211|141.101.89.211]] 06:00, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
:The person asking the question is a child-character. The adult-character then followed up with a clarification question "[Do you mean] not having a phone or computer to distract you?". Though, in your "truest sense", "before the Internet" and "the first decade or so of the Internet" would be mostly the same. The Internet didn't have much of an impact on or value to society until after it reached a certain size.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.64|108.162.237.64]] 07:15, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
::Yeahbut you're still conflating "Internet" and "Web". "The first decade or so of the Internet" still takes us up to maybe the start of the '80s ''at the latest''. A college/university student of that time is now in now in their 40s (hence the "['''Even''', ''sic''] if that's Exploit Mom"), and I don't think that the adult character looks old enough. Hack off ten years or so (for the first ''Web'' Generation to find their new distraction, via AOL if not their college) and I think it would work better. Of course, I don't dismiss Megan/whoever being a little sparing with the truth for a good tale. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.211|141.101.89.211]] 23:11, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
:::What society refers to as the "Internet" didn't really surface until the mid-to-late 90s. Before that, the systems that formed an "internet" (lower-case, to refer to the generic concept of wide-area interconnected systems) was only barely accessible to the public, and the systems that were connected this way in the early 80s were part of the original ARPANET that was primarily used by the military. In short, the "Internet" that we take for granted today was a product of its own discovery, which largely occurred in the mid-90s. An average-aged mom with a kid in the average age range to be asking questions like the one in this comic would probably have grown up in the 80s. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.249|199.27.128.249]] 03:39, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
::::Yes, exactly. Like I said, there's pedantry involved in this issue. But ''the internet'' (OSI layer 1-3 or 4, depending on how you define it) was named circa 1974 and pre-existed that in a vaguely recognisable form at the tail-end of the '60s. And is different from ''the web'' (OSI layer 7, itself). It's just an observation, and I would just count the adult in the strip as an 'unreliable narrator', whether intentionally or otherwise. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.211|141.101.89.211]] 04:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
I read a lot. Before the internet was cheap, I would go to the library on my bike, borrow 5 books (the limit), read them all and go to the library again. On a good weekend day I could repeat this 3 or 4 times. Some books I've read thousands of times. Relevant irrelevant comment[[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.41|108.162.218.41]] 07:18, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
: Very impressive. Libraries are typically open for 8 hours a day, so you read 15-20 (3-4 x 5) books in 8 hours. That's about 30 minutes per book.
: A short novel is about 200 pages. I'm an accomplished reader, and I read about a page a minute. Assuming you read exclusively short novels, you managed 7 pages a minute, or 3500 words per minute, or one page every 10 seconds. That's about three times the 1000-words-per-minute limit on human skim-reading comprehension. I'm very impressed!
: This may explain why you have had to read some books thousands of times. At a reading speed of 3500 words per minute, your comprehension was likely extremely poor, necessitating you to go back many times to understand what was going on. May I suggest that in future, you read more slowly, so that you can understand better the first time? You'll enjoy what you're reading so much more.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.178|173.245.53.178]] 17:11, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Does this comic even ''need'' explaining? Pretty self-explanatory of you ask me. —[[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.237|108.162.210.237]] 08:04, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

: I think some sort of explanation relating to why this is funny. It is sort of the opposite of the standard nostalgia. Rather like our parents generation may have had a similar discussion with their parents about the invention of TV (add a generation if you are too young). When you think about it, it is a bit odd how society is keen to develop tech to make things better, and at the same time declare that things were better in the past. We sometimes get quite good expositions on this sort of thing here... hopefully someone with some sociology/psychology knowledge can explain this a bit better. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.19}}
::Agreed it's fairly self-explanatory. The 'reverse-nostalgia' point is interesting. I guess the joke here is kind of that the Mom is making it sound like there was nothing to do before the internet, whereas in reality there was plenty to do; people weren't sitting around waiting for the internet to be invented so they didn't know that it was a thing that could be missing from their lives, it just seems that way now because we can't imagine our lives without it. In a way, it's almost a variation on the classic 'we can't watch TV, it hasn't been invented yet' joke.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.148|173.245.53.148]] 11:31, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
:::People weren't sitting around waiting for Internet to be invented. Computers already existed, so people were walking around with floppy disks (or tapes) and saying things like "It would be great if we could exchange data while sitting home ..." -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:48, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
::My main question is whether the Mom character is being serious or sarcastic - as in the way some people like to wind children up by giving them made-up answers to questions.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.148|173.245.53.148]] 11:33, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Yeah, she could be messing with her by just answering with the opposite of what she's clearly expected to say in this exchange. I think the joke works both ways. [[User:Enchantedsleeper|Enchantedsleeper]] ([[User talk:Enchantedsleeper|talk]]) 15:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

::Of course the past was better. Before the Internet, I had lot of free time I could spend whatever I wanted. Now I'm forced to spend most of day in work. Oh, wait, that isn't because of Internet but because I was child and had summer holiday and now I'm adult. (Also, the Internet technically exists since December 1974, but for most people, mid-1990s is start of Internet and my "before the Internet" refers to that). -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:48, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Isn't this a joke on how older people say younger people don't interact with eachother unless through cellphone etc. Even if they are sitting right next to eachother--[[User:Nitho|Nitho]] ([[User talk:Nitho|talk]]) 11:59, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I kindof took this joke as a variation on upstaging a complainer, i.e., "When I was your age, we walked uphill...''both'' ways". [[User:Elvenivle|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle|talk]]) 22:24, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

;Ponytail
In [[1105: License Plate]] we can see Ponytail is a police officer. Therefore she must be at least 22, and therefore she was born before 1990. If this comic features Ponytail, then it must be set at most in 2000 (when Ponytail was 10). But in 2000 or before people didn't have smartphones. In my opinion this comic is set in 2014, and therefore the girl character is not [[Ponytail]] but simply a girl with a ponytail. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.84|173.245.50.84]] 12:44, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
:Or maybe [[1105: License Plate]] was set in 2024?
:While we are identifying Randalls characters by how they are drawn, I don't think he does. (except for Blackhat and Beret Guy) -- [[User:Xorg|Xorg]] ([[User talk:Xorg|talk]]) 13:20, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
::Of course he doesn't. In [[1344: Digits]] it was arbitrary to label one character as Cueball and the other as Guy. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.90|108.162.221.90]] 17:34, 28 March 2014 (UTC) (I'm [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.84|173.245.50.84]]).

I'd like to state my opinion that I think that Megan is being serious. I'm old enough to remember a time before internet and personal computers were widespread and my recollection is EXACTLY the same as Megan's.

Talk:2221: Emulation

2019-10-29T11:34:03Z

162.158.78.160:

This reminds me of Miii's "world.execute(me)" song.
[[Special:Contributions/172.68.10.172|172.68.10.172]] 05:06, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Does everyone else also see adds in the middle of the explanation now? It is extremely annoying. :-( Ahh yes, they do, there is a [[Talk:2220:_Imagine_Going_Back_in_Time#Google_ads|section in the previous comics discussion]]. Take further grievances there --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:40, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't see any adds anywhere. ( I also don't see any ads in the middle ;^) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.160|162.158.78.160]] 11:34, 29 October 2019 (UTC)