explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2948: Electric vs Gas

2025-04-21T22:50:04Z

172.68.205.164:

Now I'm not a fan of gas engines, but that argument is in bad faith. Gas engines have one ''very big'' advantage over electrics: Energy density, and by extension, range. Batteries can't come close to the energy density of hydrocarbons, despite the latters' overall lower efficiency. --[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 17:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:I think that's one of the main arguments for hybrid systems. Using a gas engine to charge an electric motor, and then using the electric motor to actually power the appliance, enables significant efficiency gains. If anything, combining the technologies enables even greater ''usable'' energy density from hydrocarbons. Hybrid electric vehicles for example are extremely efficient. [[User:Eunakria|Eunakria]] ([[User talk:Eunakria|talk]]) 17:43, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:Energy density, and the ability to move large amounts of stored energy from one place to another quickly and easily (aka pump gas, vs charge or swap a battery), from a thermal and maintenance perspective. (Which is not entirely unrelated to energy density.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.39.54|172.70.39.54]] 18:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::Swapping batteries (and slowly charging the batteries in the swap station) could offer comparable "charge" times to gasoline refuelling times, while also being better for battery lifespan, but would require industry coordination and standardisation re: battery packs and install location that, sadly, simply does not exist. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.212|172.70.42.212]] 19:54, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::Plug-in hybrids have been superior since 1904, but the incremental capital cost is still an issue while oil is under $100/bbl. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.129|172.71.150.129]] 19:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::A litre of gasoline provides 31.5MJ of energy, and in the US a pump transfers 38 litres (10 USgal) per minute, or 0.633 litres per second. That's an energy throughput of 31.5MJ/l x 0.633 l/s = 19.95MW. And US gasoline pumps are, by law, slow. In the civilised world, petrol pumps can deliver 30% more (50l/minute). Hi-flow diesel pumps used to fill trucks and buses are much faster - between 80 and 120 litres per minute. 120 litres per minute of diesel fuel is an energy transfer rate of about 76MW. By comparison, the fastest 3-phase AC chargers for the Tesla model 3 charge at 11kW; Pumping gas is about 2,000 times faster at getting energy into a car than this. The fastest single phase chargers are 7.4kW; While a standard wall socket charger can manage a paltry 2.3kW, (around a ten-thousandth of the energy transfer rate of a gas pump). The "super" DC charging stations achieve an "impressive" 250kW, making pumping gas at a regular gas station about eighty times faster than using one of these. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.64.207|172.68.64.207]] 07:00, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
:::The US is the civilized world, and is superior to all other nations in all ways. {{unsigned ip|172.70.254.210|22:32, 21 April 2025}}
::::Does that including signing things? (And, for a ''civilised'' nation, it can't even spell correctly. :P ) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 22:50, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

: Except of course that this isn't quite as simple as this. A Honda Civic (one the most popular US petrol cars) will go about 400 miles on a full tank, about the same as a Dodge Ram. Also about the same as a Tesla Model S. There's a pretty good reason this isn't a coincidence - people don't want more much more range, and a bigger tank is more weight. A Chevy Silverado full tank will go about 500miles. If you really want range, you need to look at a hybrid car. As the comic points out, the torque on a standard otto cycle engine is poor, but that cycle is deliberately designed to give more torque. Hybrids use an Atkinson cycle which is far more energy efficient, but could not provide enough torque - so you use the electric to do that. A Prius has a range in excess of 630 miles, more than any popular petrol car. So if you want range, you still want an electric engine, just store the energy in hydrocarbons. For similar reasons, diesel trains use the diesel to run generators which then power the electric motors on the wheels, and have done for decades. {{unsigned ip|172.70.162.186|20:47, 19 June 2024}}
:: Which brings us back to energy density: The Honda Civic has a similar range to the Tesla – at 10% the weight for its fuel (vs. the Tesla's battery), and one-third the volume. The comparison gets even worse for long-haul cargo, but that might be beyond the topic of this conversation. --[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 13:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:How about we make an actual list, then?
:{| class="wikitable"
|+ Electric v. Gas Engines
|-
! +/- of Electric Cars !! +/- of Gas Cars
|-
| -Energy Density/Range || +Energy Density/Range
|-
| -Battery Life || -Fuel Efficiency
|-
| -Toxic Rare Earths || -Fossil Fuels
|-
| +Cleaner || -Motor Power
|-
| -Decrease Efficiency in Winter || +Lower Vehicle Weight
|} [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 13:45, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

:Isn't the comic just making the claim that electric ''motors'' are superior to gas engines? It's not saying anything about how easy it is to supply energy to the motor/engine, or anything about their use in transportation. Given that, I don't think there's anything particularly contentious here? [[User:Syperk|Syperk]] ([[User talk:Syperk|talk]]) 04:56, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
::Motors without fuel are all equally useless. --[[User:Coconut Galaxy|Coconut Galaxy]] ([[User talk:Coconut Galaxy|talk]]) 08:19, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

On the other other hand, in a lot of cases an electric motor is just a gas engine with extra steps due to the current state of the power grid. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.232|172.68.174.232]] 17:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Not here in Washington State it isn't. Most of our electricity comes from hydroelectric dams. [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 23:10, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:: AFAIK, no new dams are being built, and I reckon that the probability is vanishingly small that any new dam that is mooted will survive the inevitable storms of protest and get built. The trend, rather, and the political pressure, salmon fans, is to remove dams (e.g. those on the Elwha River). The existing dams are aging, their impoundment volumes are dwindling due to sedimentation, and the water for those impoundments is increasingly bespoke and is, in at least some cases, declining in volume due to climate perturbations. The population, and its energy use, is increasing. As of 2022, [https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=WA#tabs-1 I read], WA was a net exporter of electricity. I would not be taking that status for granted. A few years ago, a study was published, finding that, in states where the electricity grid was dependent on fossil-fuel-fired plants, electric cars had a greater carbon footprint than gasoline/petrol cars - and this was before the major gains in gasoline fuel efficiency contributed by advances in computer tech (2007 Honda Civic hybrid gets the same city mileage, ca. 35 mpg, as a 2021 Honda Civic petrol engine, in my hands). I do not know what current assessments say about this. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.129|172.71.150.129]] 04:23, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

:I'd say an electric motor powered by a hydrocarbon grid still usually makes better use of gas than a typical gas engine. Gas engines that don't always run at full throttle (as in, a gas engine in an appliance) have dramatically worse efficiency than electric motors that don't always run at full throttle. It depends ''very'' heavily on use case, though; always take measurements and run the numbers before coming to a specific conclusion. Science would be nothing without empirical data. [[User:Eunakria|Eunakria]] ([[User talk:Eunakria|talk]]) 17:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Should this have [[:Category:Climate change]]? I can’t decide. [[User:Usb-rave|Usb-rave]] ([[User talk:Usb-rave|talk]]) 17:40, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:Yeah, it's better with it for people looking though the category later on, they will want to see it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.10|162.158.186.10]] 19:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, with this argument the thing gas engines have going for them over EVs is the refueling time and availability. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.175|172.69.59.175]] 18:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:That's fair. It would be nice if electric cars had been more focused-on ten years ago than the trend (trend? craze? idea? whatever.) starting now. I refuse to buy a Tesla, though. Elon is never getting my money. I'm waiting for an electric Volvo. [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 13:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::As in...you've ordered one, or you hadn't realised they exist?[[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 21:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Wait they're real? Need. [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 08:26, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

It's really remarkable how uninformed and unintelligent this comic is, to the point where I now doubt the veracity of his entire What If? series. {{unsigned ip|172.70.114.62|19:13, 19 June 2024}}
:To be fair, there’s sort of an agenda here, while I don’t believe there’s one in ''What If?'' I can’t independently verify the accuracy of ''What If?'', of course, but there is that. [[User:Usb-rave|Usb-rave]] ([[User talk:Usb-rave|talk]]) 19:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
:I'd like to know more about the "uninformed and unintelligent" assessment. Given that not all of Randall's characters copy his ''exact thinking''. I don't think he'd espouse much of what he has Black Hat say/do. And clearly many of his Cueballs, even being often accepted as Author Avatars, can be clearly being dumber than Randall (who is 'writing them as dumb') is. What we have is parody. And maybe you just don't see the parody in the way intended (or understood by others). Perhaps you have a completely different mindset, or are just inclined to be anti-Randall> (Even in things he's actually right about...) I don't know where the mismatch may be here, but if you're seriously thinking that there remains not one useful take-away from anything Randall has ever said, just from the ''possibility'' that his cartoon characters don't completely mesh with what you perceive as a correct worldview, then this needs looking at from a different perspective than just reassessing the whole ''What If?'' corpus. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.24|162.158.74.24]] 23:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
: The tagline for the xkcd comic does include the word "sarcasm", which should warn against over-serious or over-literal interpretations. Not infrequently, I find, xkcd ventures into the realm of the sarcastic, the opinionated, even the polemic (cf. the Hilary Clinton campaign ads), and this one states a clear opinion in favor of electric cars ... with which one is free to debate (as here, exhaustively), or disagree. All of which brings the cartoonist to the attention of the world, and thereby supports him in his chosen line of work, which, in the current state of cartooning as a profession, is no small accomplishment. As for the opinion, consider the following question: "I have a four-mile commute to work. Which is the most eco-friendly option? The electric car? The hybrid? The gas/petrol car?" Answer: the foot car. Walking the four miles is the only minimum-carbon solution under all circumstances ... except perhaps ones that allow the questioner to keep deir job. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.4|108.162.245.4]] 05:39, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:: I would suggest that the foot car is *not* the minimum carbon solution in all circumstances. Riding a road bike at about 10 mph, you'll travel a mile in 6 minutes, and burn about 20 calories. Assuming a basal metabolic rate of 80 calories per hour, that's 8 calories in those six minutes, and 12 calories burned for the exercise. Walking at 3 mph, you'll travel a mile in 20 minutes, and burn about 100 calories. That's about 25 calories of basal consumption, and 75 calories due to the exercise. So the "foot car" is 6 times more carbon than the bike, assuming you already have a bike. You can talk about wear and tear on the bike components, but you also have wear and tear on your shoes; I don't know exactly how that shakes out, but I'd be surprised if the bike doesn't win in the end. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.174.241|172.70.174.241]] 18:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
::: What about the basal calories still to be burnt in the 'time saved' of 14 minutes (walking time minus cycling time)? Bike calories would be better given as 8+12+18(+⅔), by your figures, or over 38 calories. Not counting what additional effort you'd expend in that free time that you wouldn't have without it. (I'm also not totally sure about your various calorific figures, but that's much more open to interpretation.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.231|172.70.91.231]] 22:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Ohhh... OK. I had poor signal so this one took a while to load, and I only saw the "Gas vs. Electric" title. I thought it was going to be about kitchen stoves - ones that burn ''actual'' "gas", vs. electrical heating elements. [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 19:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I actually experienced the "cons" of a less limited degree of power and not being noisy at all, today. Someone in an electric vehicle (could have been a Tesla) pulled out of a sideroad, accelerating at what seemed like a reckless rate (it was advantageous to do so, but a petrol-powered vehicle that might have taken a bit longer to switch up the gears would still have been up to speed soon enough to not get into contention with any other vehicles). And with barely more than a whine, and perhaps a bit of road-noise that might have included at one point a bit of grit-splattering. I was watching this, and knew they were pulling out of the junction (and knew for certain, moreover, that there was no traffic coming up or down the road, nor anybody crossing the road anywhere in my rather long sight). Had there been someone ''actually'' about to cross the road (within the next 50 yards or so), however, it would have been entirely possible that they would have been caught be surprise by this near-silent and suddenly fast-moving vehicle. If it was a Tesla, then maybe its inbuilt forward 'radar'/whatever would have helped bring the vehicle to a stop, or at least slow it down/stop if from speeding up enough, before any actual accident might have happened... but this is theoretical, as it just happened not to happen anything like this on this occasion... But it could have. And the paradigm for crossing the road that I learnt several decades ago of "Stop, Look, Listen, Think" has probably now started to lose out on the "Listen" bit, and possibly degraded even the "Look" and "Think" until we start to retrain ourselves to anticipate vehicles whipping around random corners that are far more silent-and-deadly then what we've all become used to. Ok, so this is not necessarily the total fault of the electric vehicles (or even the drivers, but they must have ''some'' hand in the matter), but in changing the dynamics and situational awarenesses of road traffic so much it ''might'' be considered a relatable problem. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.24|162.158.74.24]] 23:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
: I drove an electric motorcycle for a while, which put me quite exposed and aware of safety and my driving environment. The concerns about EVs being too quiet don't come across as grounded in reality. Modern ICE vehicles typically have minimal engine noise already. There are really two cases: out on the road, where half the people (exaggerating) have their earbuds in, and any engine noise is swamped by tire noise anyway. No difference between ICE and electric here. Then in a parking lot, where tire noise is not significant, and maybe pedestrians could get extra auditory cues about the vehicles around them from ICE engine noise. In that context, I personally would flip open my visor and make eye contact with pedestrians. It would be nice if drivers of full-sized cars and trucks, no matter their power source, would do more of that. Driving while inattentive is unambiguously bad. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.23.204|172.69.23.204]] 02:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
: Rolling noise becomes more than enough for safe audibility by about 30 km/h (below which speed collisions are relatively less dangerous anyways, though most urban streets really should have a speed limit of 20 km/h for numerous reasons including safety), and actually dominates engine noise by about 55 km/h. ICEs are loud enough to have like a dozen deleterious health effects even while idling, though the noise of a bicycle, if sufficiently constant, is enough to reach the WHO threshold. In short, electric cars only need to make additional noise below about 30 km/h for safety, and even then only 55dBA, quieter than typical speech, and even then only if there's already a lot of noise polution to drown them out. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.33|162.158.146.33]] 07:23, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::Although really what they mostly need is drivers who look where they're going, and don't assume that people will just get out of their way when they hear them coming.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.124|172.69.195.124]] 08:44, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::: Which is best accomplished using narrower streets, bollards, and other traffic easing mechanisms that make people want to slow down and pay attention rather than putting up a lower speed limit sign and just expecting people to obey it. That goes double in the US where most speed limits are assigned by looking at the speeds people are actually driving in good conditions and setting it where 10% of people woulld be speeding (and then rounded to the nearest 5 mph), meaning the sign is literally irrelevant to almost everyone. Oh, also, we desperately need to stop combining streets, which are destinations, with roads, which are thoroughfares, into "stroads" that fail at being both; that's an actual majority of your traffic easing taken care of basically in one step. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.234|162.158.146.234]] 10:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I wonder if the current explanation is missing the forest for the trees. My impression was that White Hat was parroting a ChatGPT-style response -- noncommittal and logically incoherent. (In fact, I missed the logical non sequitur the first time I read the strip. The style just screamed to me ChatGPT, though.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.9|172.71.154.9]] 00:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
: I agree about missing the forest for the trees. Everyone's so focused on the opinions being expressed, they're totally missing what to me is the whole point of the comic: poking fun at similar kinds of pro vs. con comparisons but where some/any/all of the points are actually on the wrong side of the argument. So while on the surface the comparison appears balanced, it's actually incredibly biased. Sure all of that stuff is interesting for those wanting to know more about the actual pros and cons of the particular subject being discussed; but that's just the vehicle Randall happened to choose for delivery. Now I'm not sure if ChatGPT / AI plays into this, aside from it probably being more likely to produce this kind of unintentionally biased comparison; but I'd assume given the absence of cues implying as much that this comic is not related to AI. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.236|172.71.146.236]] 19:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:: Forgive me, but I believe "where some/any/all of the points are actually on the wrong side of the argument" has been well covered. Stating a couple of IC-Cons/EV-Pros ''as if'' EV-Cons/IC-Pros (and possible reasons why they could reinterpret things that way). Or is there yet another objection, and you aren't also meaning that? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.64|172.70.91.64]] 20:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::: It's touched on, barely; but most of the explanation (and commentary) is so focused on rehashing the arguments for/against the different types of vehicles that it's easy to miss. I'm sure those topics are already well covered elsewhere, do we really need to go into so much detail here? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.96|172.71.151.96]] 18:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

This comic was posted yesterday and I'm already seeing people typing essays. I'm scared. (also electric rules gas drools nyehh) [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 13:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
: Not too shabby a result from a stick-figure drawing posted on the Internet. Jealous? As for 'electric', nice to see your unqualified support for [https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/02/01/1152893248/red-cobalt-congo-drc-mining-siddharth-kara slave labor in the Congo] and elsewhere. Get a horse! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.73|172.68.23.73]] 13:40, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:: Isn't a horse also a form of slave labour?[[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.223|172.71.242.223]] 13:52, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::: PETA would likely agree with you, to the point of sabotage if widespread re-introduction of bestial labor looked like being a thing. So, if we shut down the electricity grid to quell the AI revolt (if resource limitations don't compel that shutdown sooner), and we are denied fossil fuels for reasons of climate destruction and, again, resource limitation, this time-honored path to civilization will likewise be refused us. At least initially ... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.133|172.71.147.133]] 01:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
::There are several things wrong with your assessment, [[Special:Contributions/172.68.23.73|172.68.23.73]] (although I do wish my comics got this much attention). The first is your assumption that I know the exact methods used to gather battery materials (I don't). The second is saying I support slave labor, which I '''''ABSOLUTELY DO NOT.''''' The third is your assumption that I have the space, money, resources, skills, and time to purchase and take care of a horse. I don't! Slave labor is appalling, the DRC is a nightmare, and horses have more needs than I could fit into a week. Back to electric cars, though: they're generally better for the environment, they're quieter, they're more powerful, and their engine systems are really cool and fun to look at and see in action. Gas(oline) engines are loud, smelly, pollution-heavy, and subject to violent explosions in a crash. Electric is better in general. It's a good idea to manufacture them, but I agree with you on the need for changing battery material-harvesting methods. [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 17:26, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
::: I argue that knowing the state of the electric-economy supply chain, the resources needed and [http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2023/ph240/cadicamo1/ the limitations on their availability] as well as how they are procured, is necessary for any informed stance. I argue further, if you and I are wantonly snapping up electric gadgets, and, as is typical, are scouring the Internet for the cheapest possible prices for those gadgets, then you and I are screaming our support for human slavery in the only term$ that matter. The cry "Get a horse!" was a catcall aimed by horse owners at owners of early 20th-century automobiles, which were orders of magnitude dirtier and smellier than today's machines, were essentially non-functional, and took insignificantly less labor to maintain than the horse. You are absolutely correct about the maintenance needs of a horse, and indeed most people in the "horse and buggy days" couldn't afford either the cost or the time to own one. They were symbols of the 1% - who had slaves, be they chattel or hireling, to maintain their stables. From where I sit, the issues associated with actually realizing the fantasy of an electric economy are far more existential than changing battery-material harvesting methods, and I no longer accept that We the People will, or even can, face up to, never mind resolve, the issues. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.133|172.71.147.133]] 01:47, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
:::: Sounds like [https://www.visualcapitalist.com/every-single-cognitive-bias/ selective outrage] to me. Do you have a clue what kind of disaster the fossil fuel industry has wreaked (and continues to wreak) upon the world? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.214|162.158.166.214]] 06:22, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
::::: Damage from the Industrial Revolution has been plain in lake sediment cores from northeastern North America dating from the 1850s. To name one; picked this one because of peripheral (taxonomy of the organisms used in the assessment) association with the work and [https://www.queensu.ca/research/researchers/john-p-smol its lead researcher]. My beef is with those who think that [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2020/08/23/kris-an-murphy-wunderwaffe/ the technology that got us into this mess will somehow pull us out], in the absence of evidence [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2023/07/22/amoebas-lorica-setiback/ that people will stand the financial and standard-of-living sacrifices necessary to make it happen] - witness, for example, the lot of us arguing pointlessly about this on our carbon-belching computers. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.90|172.68.22.90]] 22:10, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
::::: I read a press account, recently, about how a group of scientists and engineers plan to deploy a giant umbrella to shade the Earth from incoming solar radiation and thereby interrupt global warming; the latest in {{w|Space sunshade|a series of such ideas}}. It immediately called to mind the Road Runner cartoon, in which Wile E. Coyote, despairingly, put up a tiny, tattered parasol to protect himself from the anvil that was descending on him. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.120|162.158.41.120]] 22:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::: It is, as I'm sure that wikilink says, an old, old idea (and a bit discredited in the eyes of those who think that putting a sticking plaster on won't stop us from the juggling with knives, and having more fumbles, for which the sticking plaster is ''supposed'' to be a treatment for). I'm surprised it's been seriously brought up recently, not least because you'd have to deploy a truly massive shade (not Earth-sized, perhaps not even Moon-sized, but certainly orders of magnitude larger than we have any current experience, or hope, in constructing) to produce a significant effect, and only doing that by denying a significant part of the Sun's energy from both natural and man-made solar-energy receivers in selected areas of Earth. (Imagine the uproar, as certain countries get 'shaded' and neighbours do not, by adjusting the largely Sun-synchronous (''or'' full-on Lagrangian) orbit. And it is in the power for the shade-operators to change which one(s) are effected, hence they could be considered/accused culpable for any unwanted effects, or just from perceived disadvantages and cultural objections.)
:::::: But it ''would'' be better than an 'anti-anvil parasol', because any worthwhile attempt would have to be effective enough to actually produce a measurable effect (which is all that might be needed to go over the tipping point, or not, at present), whereas Wile. E.'s attempt is instant fail. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.240|172.70.85.240]] 07:55, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

and now i know why xkcd doesn't have a comments section. [[user talk:lettherebedarklight|youtu.be/miLcaqq2Zpk]] 07:35, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

That the argument is fallacious is the point. It is hardly a first for white hat. It shouldn't be seen as a serious "pros and cons" argument, it would be obvious to anyone reasonable, including Randall, that there are real cons to EVs (how important they are is up to debate). But as evidenced by previous comics, white hat is not particularly reasonable. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.130.143|172.71.130.143]] 11:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
:Rather than "not particular reasonable" (more the realms of Black Hat), I'd have said "not particularly rational"/similar is White Hat's schtick. But I do agree with you in principle, and don't understand half the 'objections' above, if serious. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.172|141.101.99.172]] 13:29, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

I think that the real meaning of this comic is that the author of XKCD now makes enough money to afford an EV. Must be nice. {{unsigned ip|162.158.154.31|14:58, 22 June 2024}}
:...yeah, but no. I don't know where you get that. (If he can afford a new car, good on him, but I doubt it'll anything related.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.126|141.101.99.126]] 21:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
::It could be that he can now afford an EV but not an ICE (which is significantly more expensive to operate, unless you buy it to keek all the time in the garage).
::Seriously, it's more likely that he wants to make the point that nowadays almost all supposed problems with EVs are really not relevant anymore. What is ironic is that some readers of XKCD try to propagate some myths against EVs.
::A very good starting point on the subject is the 2018 report by the European Environmental Agency (https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/eea-report-confirms-electric-cars) which in 2018 clearly debunked any myths about EVs not being really green. We're talking about vehicles, here, not just motors. Also, they emit way less particulate, because of regenerative braking, no fuel burning, absence of particulate-generating parts such as clutches. Modern researhc on particulates, as cited by EEA, is almost unanimous in describing lower particulate emissions, even though the rate of diminution varies according to the scenario.
::Battery recycling is often cited as a "problem". It should be considered a problem in the mathematical sense, such as the "two body problem" which is called a "problem" despite having been solved. We currently know perfectly well what will happen to used car batteries, and the solutions are already available.
::Finally, EVs are much more reliable than modern ICEs because mechnically they are much simpler. Problems can happen more easily in software, which is a problem with all modern cars. Diesel cars can have larger software, with functions such as emission-cheating which aren't needed on EVs and aren't really desirable.
::--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.129.162|162.158.129.162]] 22:40, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Do you suppose it's coincidence that this comic came out just six days after Will Prowse (DIY Solar Power youtube channel) put out an opinion video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkabBP85e2I] on EVs?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.220|172.69.22.220]] 08:05, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Friendly Reminder ==
I'd like to remind everyone here that we want to explain _the comic_ and NOT the pros and cons of EV vs ICE. I'll admit the explaining the points White Hat is making might be in order, anything below that is not necessary for explaining _the comic_. Also, the comic is, as others already pointed out, about engines and NOT about vehicles in general or cars in particular. The etymology of gas(oline), albeit already in trivia, is entirely irrelevant here. As are sales statistics for bikes. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:24, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
:Given the "oh, this isn't electric vs gas ''cookers''" comment, it's probably good to explain that it's gasoline ''fuel'', not natural gas (ethane, mostly)/propane/whatever. I don't know how Leftpondians swerve the confusion between the productand the general state of matter (there'll be times when context ''doesn't'' make it abundantly clear, I imagine), and for the sake of the English speaking world who might not yet have have an internal autotranslate between Amercanized terms and Anglicised ones, it seems like someone thought it was useful. As for the etymology, I always understood it as being originally '''gas'''-''condensate'' (i.e. heavier molecules, falling out of suspension) of cyclic organic compounds ('''-ole'''s, though not necessarily as in strictly "azole"-like) with a fuzzy final suffix ('''{{wiktionary|-ine}}''' ) that might be either a commercial, nominatve ''or'' chemical-name rooted tack-on. Given that gasoline isn't gaseous (or really shouldn't be, to any great degree, during most relevent handling/storing!) I think naming it after its fumes (not exactly obvious, not compared with things like bromine) sounds like a stretch.
:But being entirely a tradename (or corruption/mutation of one) covers a multitude of possibilities. Because tradename-namers aren't known for their strict logic in putting together technobabble phonemes to 'sound good', whilst buffing up (or sneaking in) whatever key surname/etc is investing in the product's retail. So long as kt sounds good/sounds a bit like various competitor names and yet doesn't sound ''so'' much like another product as to cause 'problems' (legal or commercial, depending upon what's the biggest issue). [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.227|172.69.43.227]] 13:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::I could tell you the whole tale of a particular confusion between "gas and air" (the breathable mix used to numb the pains of childbirth) and "gas and air" (two things available to top up vehicles at a roadside facility) and how, for the longest time, the teller and the listener were on completely different pages of the reciting of a mad dash taking the teller's wife to the hospital when her waters broke... But it wouldn't do justice to the actual experience of seeing the misunderstandings roll out. We'd heard the tale already, and weren't chipping in, meaning we could pick up on the confusion of the newest listener. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.99|172.70.90.99]] 20:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Frankly, I don't want to offend anyone here but the very first words in the comic after the title are "electric ''motors'' and gas ''engines''". We cannot teach basic reading skills here. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree that the explanation should be cut down substantially. Most is unsubstantiated opinion and not related to the comic at all.

The joke is that White Hat says that A and B ''each'' have their pros and cons; he then lists ''only'' the pros of one of the options and none of the cons of either. His final line is thus completely correct: it's hard (impossible) to compare two things when you only have the plus points of one of them.

The explanation for the title text goes off on an irrelevant tangent. An internal combustion engine has ''zero'' torque at standstill (remember we're talking about the engine here, not a car). Which means that the engine must idle (run without providing power to anything) before you use it to drive, producing noise even though it's not doing anything useful. An electric motor does not have this limitation, which is why electric motors are used to start gasoline engines. {{unsigned ip|172.70.162.186|18:32, 20 July 2024}}

Talk:1457: Feedback

2025-04-20T18:19:51Z

172.68.205.164:

Could the pineapple here have any relation to the [http://wiki.wifipineapple.com/index.php/WiFi_Pineapple wi-fi pineapple]? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.103|173.245.52.103]] 05:27, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

: Oh, it might as well be an obscure Psych reference. Please stop looking for extraobscure references.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.34|108.162.254.34]] 17:57, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
::I agree, in the context I really don't see how the Wi-Fi pineapple has any relevance. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 18:52, 8 December 2014
(UTC)
::: Cueball could be acting on being told that he could access an unknown Wifi using a pineapple. [[User:JamesCurran|JamesCurran]] ([[User talk:JamesCurran|talk]]) 16:45, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm3_qEMTdc4 [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.39|141.101.104.39]] 06:35, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.39|141.101.104.39]] 06:37, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I think the comic also refers to another experiment where pigeons received a snack from a dispenser at totally random times. The pigeons, thinking that whatever it is they did last helped trigger the release of food would develop a complex ritual dance to receive food. (http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/) {{unsigned ip|108.162.229.123}}
: The intro to Mr. Nobody references this. It's what I immediately thought of when I saw this comic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGcEy_W48Kc (the explanation starts around 1 minute in){{unsigned ip|108.162.221.170}}

The title text may also be a reminder that despite signal strength being important enough to some humans to act in an insanity-suggesting manner, it is not an essential need of a living organism, as the rats visibly demonstrate. --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] ([[User talk:Koveras|talk]]) 08:47, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I thought 'reception' and 'wireless signal' referred to the cellular signal. That caused a lot of issues with the iphone and others. {{unsigned ip|173.245.62.89}}
: Agreed. I don't think the comic has anything to do with wifi. The alt text seems to bolster this view. [[User:SeanAhern|SeanAhern]] ([[User talk:SeanAhern|talk]]) 15:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
: Me too. In my house, cellular signal varies more than WiFi signal for small movements. [[Special:Contributions/188.114.99.189|188.114.99.189]] 03:42, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Was it Mythbusters who tin-foiled an entire room to see whether it acted as a make-shift antenna? --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:23, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

What if the pineapple is actually where the signal is coming from, but it's a directional pineapple... {{User:Grep/signature|18:32, 08 December 2014}}
:Don't be silly. Everyone knows pineapples are omnidirectional... Of course, given the decreasing power away from the plane, if the pineapple is being held high up due to you being on a chair, if you're holding your phone up ''as well'' you probably also need to ''not'' be on the chair for your phone to get the very best signal from it... Obviously. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.247|141.101.98.247]] 19:48, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

The first thing this comic made me think of was the belief in some people that if you hold a car key fob up to your chin and press a button, the signal from the fob will be more strongly focused (presumably by your skull) and thus able to reach your car from a greater distance. I wonder if there's any relationship? [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] ([[User talk:KieferSkunk|talk]]) 07:24, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
:It's not really a believe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uqf71muwWc --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.148|108.162.254.148]] 12:07, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
:: I have a few issues with that video, even though it SEEMs to be an established video series with mostly competent people doing the stuff in them. The experiment shown was far from exhaustive and there were several things I would have challenged the demonstrator to try, especially given the claims made as to how the range was increased... if you're interested, hit me up on my talk page and I'll try to explain. -- [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 13:33, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
:::As he says in the video, don't prejudge, simply do the experiment yourself. I have, and it very clearly works. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 22:25, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

I bet Woz loved this strip. He did a similar trick in college:
http://archive.woz.org/letters/pirates/24.html
--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.170|108.162.237.170]] 22:07, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

== Quick question ==

I just wanted to followup on the request I submitted through your contact form a couple weeks ago as I haven't heard anything back. I pasted it below for your reference.

Is it okay if we feature your site in our next email newsletter? It's a perfect fit for a piece we're doing and I think our audience would find some of the content on your site super useful.

I know you're probably busy, so just a simple yes or no would suffice.

Many Thanks, {{unsigned ip|172.69.62.226|19:21, 25 February 2020}}
:Uh you'll have to ask Tori I think [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 12:39, 20 April 2025 (UTC)
::Pity I didn't see that one when it came in. It was written five years ago, and no sign that it was actually written at face-value anyway. (Even if we ''have'' a Contact Form, which I seem to have missed, I'm fairly certain that it isn't being monitored in any meaningful way.)
::Not sure what Tori would have to do with it, either. I think it was before she joined, as well, but I could be wrong about that. But no still particular reason why they'd be the person to ask. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 18:19, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

Talk:2030: Voting Software

2025-04-11T22:29:14Z

172.68.205.164:

This comic is eerily relevant again these days!
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.190.72|172.69.190.72]] 14:22, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Well the 'airplanes' part of this comic has aged really damn poorly :(

:I mean, from what I've heard the problems are more with quality control at Boeing than the engineering itself [[User:Stardragon|Stardragon]] ([[User talk:Stardragon|talk]]) 00:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

I think this comic is referencing [https://twitter.com/GossiTheDog/status/1026603800365330432 this twitter thread] and the controversy behind it.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.190.4|172.69.190.4]] 17:59, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
: The [https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/08/experts-criticize-west-virginias-plan-for-smartphone-voting/ Experts criticize West Virginia’s plan for smartphone voting] article on ArsTechnica has more information (as much as possible when the company in question does not provide any details (note that it is about overseas voting). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 19:44, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Is he saying it's weird that we're so sophisticated in other areas of computer science but so far behind in voting technology, or is he making fun of the idea that electronic voting is somehow inherently unsafe?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.106|108.162.216.106]] 18:10, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
: No i think he is saying computer science is a mess and we should not trust it with voting(he is not making fun of the idea of it being unsafe, he is pressing on the point of it being unsafe[saying that all experts agree on that])18:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

: I think he's commenting on how in most fields, the experts are very sure that they do their job well, and all the angles have been tried and tested, but in computer science the experts are more certain than anyone that there is ''absolutely no way'' for a person to actually build a complex software system with no flaws or vulnerabilities, even if they controlled every aspect of the system. in practice of course they control very little of the system and understand even less of it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.88|172.68.34.88]] 18:22, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

: He's saying that software development is a terribly buggy process, most likely because the majority of software out there can have bugs without very dire real-world consequences (unlike aircraft or elevators).

::Not to mention the fact that there are incredibly smart people with great interest in undoing the work that software developers do, whereas that isn't at all the case with airplanes or elevators. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.214|108.162.219.214]] 18:29, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

:: Plus there's the general issue that the public as a whole takes the view that "Computers are majykal" (misspelling deliberate) and therefore somehow automatically safe & infallible, despite experts trying very hard to disillusion people about...pretty much all of that. Compare that to the common assumptions about aircraft and elevators--people need the safety verified, instead of assuming it like they do with computers. [[User:Werhdnt|Werhdnt]] ([[User talk:Werhdnt|talk]]) 19:08, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

:::There's a logical fallacy here. To compare airplaneS and elevatorS to a voting system program is comparing plural to singular. There would be significant opportunity to break/modify a single instance of those objects, although without the relative anonymity of electronic access involved. Once a computer system is infiltrated, the break-in can be replicated to all instances of that program relatively instantaneously, assuming communication pathways are available.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.130|162.158.75.130]] 19:12, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

::::No logical fallacy; there have been ''multiple'' attempts to get people to accept a voting system program, and the 'done by a computer=infallible' problem is '''''not''''' unique to voting programs. Mr. Babbage was being confused by people who were thinking it was possible to get the correct answers from a computer despite putting the wrong data in back in the 1860s (at least!), and the computer at the time was not much more than a fancy calculator. [[User:Werhdnt|Werhdnt]] ([[User talk:Werhdnt|talk]]) 20:23, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

A blockchain node doesn't technically need to be connected to the internet in order to function. It needs to have some method for receiving messages from other nodes on the blockchain network, and most blockchain nodes do indeed get these messages via the internet, but some magic beans nodes (for example) get updates about new blocks and new transactions from the Blockstream satellite. An internet connection is therefore not intrinsically necessary for a blockchain to work, it's just the most convenient way to do it.

:::: The blockstream satellite is an internet, just a different media. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.59.24|172.68.59.24]] 14:41, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Do you think that this comic had anything to do with the debacle in Johnson County, KS last night? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.231|162.158.62.231]] 19:30, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

The comic ignores the fact that modern airplanes are heavily utilizing software of all kinds. A software failure in an aircraft could easily be fatal (and have been so various times in history already, while the consequences of a voting software working incorrect are ''relatively'' harmless), and still airplanes remain safe, as the comic recognizes. --[[User:YMS|YMS]] ([[User talk:YMS|talk]]) 21:05, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

:Airplanes are not connected to internet and reasonably well protected from people putting their USB devices in their control system. Also, they are NOT build by lowest bid contractor. There ARE people now capable of building offline voting machine which would be reasonable secure. They are working in banks and stock exchanges and at those companies providing switches for internet backbone, are extremely well paid and wouldn't ever promise they will get the machine finished in single year. Noone asks THEM to make the voting machines. Voting over internet? With consumer-grade devices? Impossible. (I'm also working in IT, although not on mentioned high-security systems.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:24, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

::Note that she is talking to aircraft designers, not to software engineers working on fly-by-wire systems (back when I took software engineering you got an answer similar to the one about voting machines when discussing fly-by-wire). I took this more as the aircraft designers glossing over the problems caused by software engineering. A voting system which uses paper ballots, with perhaps computer systems used for some stages of counting would be a reasonable analogy to the redundant systems used in aircraft. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.228|162.158.106.228]] 23:08, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Seems to me that the last panel references the E.T for Atari Desert Burial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial), perhaps to draw some analogy as to the potential quality or likelihood of success of a Block-chain solution as compared to the ill-fated video game. Anyone think that's worth explaining? [[User:Da_NKP|Da_NKP]] 10:15, 8 August 2018 (UTC) Da_NKP

What motive is there to "mine DemocracyCoin"? Who evaluates this blockchain? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.100|162.158.150.100]] 22:27, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
:That's simple, ideally it would be a private blockchain, and the evaluators would just be every voting computer in existence (They'd all be active for a similar fairly short time period). Presumably the evaluations would be ongoing during the voting process, then could be stopped once voting was complete. The last few votes of the night may not wind up being evaluated. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.225|162.158.74.225]]
::"The last few votes of the night may not wind up being evaluated" Thats horrifying. That alone should prove how terrible of an idea this is. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.181|162.158.154.181]] 17:14, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
:::The current system regularly throws away millions of votes because every step in the process has a strict deadline, and that's before outside processes interfere.[[User:Sailorleo|Sailorleo]] ([[User talk:Sailorleo|talk]]) 15:55, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be possible to run said blockchain on one's personal computer, instead of running on a voting machine? and you could compile open source software yourself to perform the voting. That sounds like a solid enough way to keep security fine to me, but if I'm missing something, please tell me. [[User:Gjgfuj|TheSandromatic]] ([[User talk:Gjgfuj|talk]]) 03:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
:The bigger challenge in a voting system isn't making sure someone doesn't modify the record, it's making sure that each person only votes once and only for themselves -- think about past internet voting campaigns: Justin Bieber wasn't sent to North Korea by *changed* votes, but rather by flooding the system with *bogus* votes. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.47|172.68.132.47]] 06:26, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
::To be a bit clearer, magic beans (for example), doesn't and can't enforce that wallets correspond one-to-one with people -- multiple people can share a wallet (if they all know the private key), and one person can have multiple wallets. If you want to guarantee one-to-one correspondence, you have to validate identities and issue unique, signed keys at some prior point. Leaving aside whether or not it's possible to do this part securely and without error (and how big of a target the root signing key would be), you then have millions of people doing their own key management, just like you do with magic beans. When magic beans wallets are stolen en masse by key compromises (which does happen), only the wallet owners (who were ostensibly using poor security practices which allowed the compromise) suffer, so the harm is limited. If voting system keys were stolen en masse, but the votes still counted, society as a whole would likely suffer. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.47|172.68.132.47]] 07:03, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

I think a problem that lies within voting machines is that a single flaw can and will be exploited along all machines.
You wouldn't enter a plane if one plane crashing means that all other planes will crash too.

I am not American and not so inside American politics and its system, but I think there right now is (or just was) some kind of vote in Ohio? Randalls other comic about voting machines, ([[463]])references Ohio directly as well. Even if not, that comic should definitely be referenced here. If no one else does I will in a few hours when I come home from work. [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:11, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
:There was a special election for Ohio's 12th Congressional District on Tuesday to fill in a vacant spot in the US House of Representatives, yes. I hadn't heard anything specifically about any issues with Ohio's voting machines, though I do somewhat vaguely remember Randall making a comic that expressed horror at the fact that a voting machine needed anti-virus software in the first place. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.154|162.158.63.154]] 12:58, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

I guess this may be of interest for reasons why not to have electroni voting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.13|162.158.154.13]]

Wait, so I'm not into this *at all*, but a bunch of you seem to be, so:
paper ballot voting works because we can assume the humans we choose to count oue votes to be trustworthy. Imagine that as the digital voting device, we use a cheapo Chinaphone. We remove any parts needed for wireless connection, and all USB ports and AUX ports (which are the only ports on such a device) are filled with hot glue (so, destroyed). Some of them are designed in an awkward way where you have to take the backside off in order to access the SD card, which normally is disadvantageous, but now it means that you can use a sort of sturdy phone cover with a physical lock to make the SD card inaccessible to anyone not owning the key. The key is with the trustworthy human that would otherwise hold the key for the box the paper votes go in. You could glue or screw the charger to it, so it was always full and you couldn't put a USB stick into that port without breaking the actual thing - and the trustworthy voting office humans would notice that. If it saves all votes on some SD card, the humans we trust to work for the voting can take the SD cards out, and bring them to a central computer that also has no wireless parts, and some trustworthy humans watching the SD ports. That central computer saves all the votes and counts them.
If you doctor with paper votes, then you'd have to destroy them or there'd be evidence against you. Destroying them is not safe to do.
If something seems fishy, then paper votes can be recounted.
If you have a voting machine that only a trustworthy person has access to, then that means that this trustworthy person has to build every part of the machine from the smallest transistor on and also has to guard the machine the whole time. Because otherwise you could manipulate the machine in a way to count the votes wrong, but show correct results when you test it. Since this is completely unpractical in the end you'd have to count by hand anyway.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.251|162.158.91.251]] 12:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
:Or just use paper ballots. They have been a perfectly adequate solution for centuries, and will continue to do so forever (and no, the paper usage for voting is not really significant, compared to the paper usage overall). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.64|162.158.202.64]] 20:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
If also we delete any and all software and firmware on the phones and central computer, and replace it by a piece of software that can literally only show you a multiple choice screen with names of candidates and save what you clicked, that sounds quite safe.
Carrying the SD cards to the central computer would still take time, but we're carrying much smaller things so it might speed up somewhat (less stuff to haul around), and the voting can be done nearly as fast as the central computer can read in the SD cards.
No strange SD cards go into the central machine since they're carried by the same trustworthy human that counts the paper votes.

Yet another issue that paper ballot voting gives us that electronic voting can hardly support is "deniability" of votes: after the fact, you cannot claim to have voted for anyone in particular, so you cannot be bribed or coerced to vote for a given party. This is a very essential and often overlooked property of any voting system.

What things will go wrong? Zillions, I'm sure. But what zillions? I'm curious!
A modern processor can't run without it's own software layer. If you want to transfer the data - even if only from an SD card to a local hard drive - then you'd need about seven layers, from which many have sublayers. The lowest level, which is the hardware level, consists on another plethora of levels. If just one transistor is modified by an attacker - or the layout of the transistors or a part of the CPU or a part of the hdd-controller or a part of the SD card controller or... many other things. Then this could lead to the attacker modifying the result of the vote.
There are thousands of attack points that start before the voting machine reaches it's target. Then there are attacking vectors that target the SD-card even before there's any voting data on it. (There are SD-card viruses that survive formatting and those aren't even on a hardware level) If you want a decently safe voting machine that costs less than a billion $ to make, then you should use a purely mechanical design. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.90|162.158.90.90]] 10:22, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

You could all reference Brazil for how an electronic voting system works. It changed in the late 90s after a major country-wide voting fraud scandal that revealed that most of the vote counters in the whole country were unreliable, partisan, bribed or all three; to the point any recount would bring a vastly different result. The Brazilian public lost all faith in the paper ballots and the Federal Electoral Tribunal had to implement an electronic voting system to reacquire voter trust in the voting system.

Twenty years later the public in general still trust the system more than the paper ballot but the losing side in presidential elections always cry afoul about the machines being tampered with (Even though the political parties that complained about fraud for losing the presidential election ended up winning the majority of the seats in both congress and senate, as well as state governships. But, you see, for those elections the system is foolproof, even though they're all done at the same time in the same voting machines.)
: Please sign your comments. The issue is a reduction of points of failure. In a paper ballot system, you have tens of thousands of humans being observed by each other and representatives of interested parties and judges doing the counting. A single malicious person would have to go to incredible effort to hide their miscountings, and then would only be able to change a hundred votes or so. In an electronic voting system, all it takes is one person to do an SD card swap and boom: tens of thousands of votes are changed. One person can change the code on the central counting system that reads the SD cards, and boom: millions of votes are changed. The fact that so much effort would be needed to change the result in a paper ballot system is a security feature. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.231|162.158.62.231]] 12:00, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
::And anyway, you're describing more or less [https://app.chicagoelections.com/documents/Judge-Handbook/EJ_Handbook_P2018_ch7.pdf what already happens] in an election. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.11|172.68.58.11]] 13:54, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

When paper votes need to be re-counted, it's easy: a vote is valid if there is a croos marking at exactly one candidate row. It's possible to implement this in software: store each "paper" as a separate file, and sing it with the voter's private key! Oh, wait, on real paper you don't add your signature because the vote is meant to be anonymous? Tough luck, as long as electronic votes are secret votes, there will be no way to make them re-countable reliably. {{unsigned ip|141.101.76.82}}

One proposed way of dealing with reasonable personally-authenticatable electronic voting (without losing the freedom to have a private vote of your own), is to allow everyone to 'unpack' their vote as many times as they want (ensuring that the system never wrongly assigned your choice, either accidentally or deliberately) to let you see what you ''had'' voted, but at the same time revoking it and requiring you to resubmit your choice (or, indeed, ''any'' choice, knowing that you would undo it again by the next check, so you could explore every single option to ensure that none of them come back 'wrong' in any way). In order to prevent vote-manipulation by intimidation, there'd be no 'post-election' check-back option, which means there must be a basic trust of what happens to the pool of unrescinded votes left over at the end of the process (when they are unpacked as a whole to go towards actually generating the electoral result), but you can at least do away with "I pressed A, but did it flash up B" (or, more insidiously, flashed up A but ''recorded'' B) issues. If you have any such impression, request your last vote be passed back to you and try again. And again. And again, as many times as you think is necessary to give you confidence. Then ''don't'' request it (only you know when that's going to be, so nobody's going to know that this is when they should kick in the miss-recording algorithm). Not that any of this needs Blockchain (just a nicely audited set of symmetric/assymetric salted-encryptions). I've forgotten what they call this method, otherwise I'd pass on a reference to the fuller description (that probably does better than me in outlining the process involved, from only half-remembered key details)... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 22:29, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

User talk:FaviFake

2025-04-11T21:58:37Z

172.68.205.164: /* As I can't edit it... */

<big><big><big><big>Hey there, feel free to '''[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:FaviFake&action=edit&section=new send me a message]''' :)</big></big>{{TOC}}</big></big>

== Objects table ==
Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books). There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''. Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.

What is also missing in the table are many structures or objects found on the planets and, most importantly, dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.

Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.

Technical remarks:
* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.

-- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 19:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
:> Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books).
:Hey! Yeah, that's the state of the table ''right now'', and I 100% percent agree with everything you're saying here. All planets and items that need an explanation should be explained and not just described. I mostly just copied and pasted the "planet description/explanations" from the old list to the table: creating the table was way more painful than i thought. I was actually surprized to see that nobody explained what Andal referred to, but I don't know anything about it so more knowledgeable people will have to chip in on that

:>There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''.
:I do! And I wish other people could help here. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but this is the banner i put above the table:
----
'''ALL ITEM EXPLANATIONS NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE OLD PLANET LIST TO THE NEW TABLE''' 
We are currently switching from a disorganized list (below, inside the green banner) to the new organized table, but the explanations for specific items are missing from the new table. Please help by copying the item explanations from the old list and adding them to the new table ''in this format:'' 
<code>The item message &ndash; <nowiki>''Where to find it &ndash; Explanation, such as references etc''</nowiki></code> 
Example: You found a cheese platter (Your tanks recharge faster) – ''Next to the cell tower – The cheese is a reference to [https://example.com 1234: Cheese]''
----
'''OTHER ISSUES:'''
* upgrades that end in "???" need to be replaced by the exact upgrade message shown to the user.
* the "Tiles (X, Y)" column for planet coordinates is empty

:As you can see, the explanations should be put right next to the items and messages. Unfortunately no one has started to add them to the table yet

:> Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.
:Your English is excellent :)

:> dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.
Almost all the dialogues are on the [[2765: Escape Speed/Transcript]] page, so I guess they should be added there. I don't know if they're already here, I haven't looked at it enough
:: The transcript is not the place for explanations. Puns and references shall be explained elsewhere. I continue working on the transcript but there's still quite a way to go. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

:> Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.
:Yeah; i totally get everything you said. In my last reply I think I was a bit too rude for some reason, maybe it's because I just finished the table and was tired.

:>* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
:* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.
I was heavily inspired by the table in the [[2712: Gravity]] explanation, which included these. I kind of agree that the filename could be removed, and the filenames could be added to the planet name or explanation, i didn't think about that. About the tiles, someone might use them someday, but if the column keeps remaining empty, i don't mind seeing it disappear

:I really liked your ideas, if you don't mind I'll copy and paste this discussion in the actual comic discussion page and see what others think --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:37, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

::Update: I found a way and added all the coordinates, and moved the planet filenames to the Planet Name column to make more space for the other columns :)

::: Hi, what about dividing planets and objects like in [[User:Malgond/Drafts/Escape_Speed|my experiment]]? There's plenty of horizontal space for explanations and the entries are quite compact vertically. I also think about color-coding the different Types of game objects. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

::::Hmm, I think it looks a little messy and maybe too complicated. Do any other comics have two different tables? Also, I'm personally not a fan of mixing items, landscapes, and people. I think most people reading the table are there to get an overview of the planets and what they contain. Do we really have to explain everything in such detail? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:09, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::We do not have to follow other explanations too closely, we could use a new form if it seems clearer and better. The current form has no place neither for explaining items nor for dialogues/monologues. More columns could be problematic (specifically in today's world of high and narrow screens of smartphones). Should we explain everything? Well, it us up to collective "us". Personally, I would like someone explain a few puns/dialogues I do not understand.
:::::For now, there's only a handful of people still interested in somehow finishing the explanation for this huge comic. Maybe if we two can agree on some format we could put it in discussion page and ask for votes. (Discussion needs a cleanup, BTW). -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 22:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::Hey, I'm back. I see you're enhancing your example table, and iI was wondering, do you plan to move your edits to the actual article after you're done and use the test to see how the formatting looks? Isn't it easier to just add them to the main page directly? Just wondering. If you want I can help you port them over :)
:::::Keeping the contents of the table on your talk page and then porting them over afterwards could lead to a loss of information added after you started editing your user page [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 13:11, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::I'm back too. Yes, I intend to put it in the main article, but I am a bit shy to replace a lot of your work; I've asked for opinions in the talk page. Let's see how it sorts out. Maybe someone has a still better idea. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 21:50, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::Oh. I think the structure of the current table in the article is better than the one you've been working on: for example, it's easier to sort for items, is more compact, and is just one. Why don't you just add a "transcript" column like the table on [[2712: Gravity]] to put what things and people say, and add the rest of the information on the respective columns? Personally, I think you're making it a little bit too complicated. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

== Haltones ==

"They're not **predominantly** gray, the two main colors are just white and black. Sometimes he uses the gray color just like when he uses any other color" ... It didn't say that they were predominantly grey(/'gray'), any more than it said that they'd be predominently black (as [[:Category:Comics with inverted brightness]], often, in preference to white). The point being that even the most "black and white" images aren't monochrome, but have degrees of grey at the boundaries, with smoothly antialiased boundaries between the full black of the line (or filled area) and the full white of the background (or inverted detail). You'll see this if you zoom in, with your favourite image editor. And very often in images with a default RGB colourspace, even if the effective pallette employed covers just greyscale values. But greys actually do feature a lot, too (often the first choice of non-black-and-white, for slight lessening of prominence, as opposed to 'red pen' ''increased'' visibility). So it's technically inaccurate to describe them as pretty much monochrome. But how to convey this in <...counts...> less than 157ish words? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.173|172.71.242.173]] 16:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:The wiki page says
::::"xkcd comics are usually plain, predominantly black-and-white line drawings, but sometimes they make use of hues beyond the usual monochrome colors, even if it is just red-penned annotations.
:I think it's enough, since, even if grey is more used than other non-monochrome colors, I don't believe it's so important that it needs to be included as a "third" main color. If Randall uses many bright colors, that he will obviously also use simpler hues of grey when needed. What do you think? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:Aside from the antialising edging gradient, I just used the Random Page link and landed on [[1301: File Extensions|something with functional greys]], [[734: Outbreak|an unusual use of 'Post-It' yellow]], an unremarkably "just black pen" comic and then [[1788: Barge|more functional grey]]. I'd argue against "monochrome" as a description, as clearly there is more than just #000000 and #FFFFFF, often enough, in an actual fill-colour/broad-brush context. Even if that's #808080 or another no-hue shade. (I was expecting to land on a "grey pen" comic to assess, after enough clicks but, having seen what I got in the random first handful, I saw no need to go on.)
:And "monochrome" can be/often is coloured. Sepia photographs or "night vision" green displays are perfect examples of monochrome (with or without halftones/dithering/whatever). As is [[267: Choices: Part 4]] (other Choices comics may be considered "duotone", in different ways).
:Maybe "...are often drawn as black shapes on white, or occasionally white shapes on a dark background, but may feature at least one additional highlighting shade or an even fuller colour pallette." Does that sufficiently cover that whole breadth of use? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.154|172.70.86.154]] 19:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

== Childish slang. ==

Agree with you on the recent change that you (generic 'you', not ''you'' 'you'!) sound infantile, any which way, upon use of the words mentioned. Which is how it was still said before the revert in that version of edit. But with <code>"pretty gay" and "retarded" are infantile and offensive slang for "foolish" or "contemptible"</code>, you miss the point. Foolishness is just one distant contender for what "pretty gay" is often intended to mean (even if not actually being used for someone/something 'effeminate'). And "retarded" is more in the whole "thick, stupid, dumb" line of insult than "contemptible" (which is more "horrible, dislikable, repulsive"..?).
 Personally, I also thought it better with not actually defining insults (correctly or otherwise), as it adds power to them. I can call someone a "numpty" in jest, for example, and colloquially that might be understood as the low-level insult (if that) which it is intended to be. But if I start to bandy around its {{wiktionary|numpty#Scots|dictionary definition}} then it becomes more of a seriously accusatory description.
 Just my opinion. Not really understanding the latest revert when it had seemed to be improved (if anything) in the version you reverted away. Just putting it there. I know you're doing a lot of editing (good stuff!) just wondering if you considered this one carefully enough in your obvious zeal. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.89|172.71.182.89]] 16:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
:Addendum. Meant to say, if you decide to undo/reform your own revert (I won't do it, but on the offchance you see my point), I'd have not said "''commonly'' used". They're used in slang, but I don't think we can say how frequently they pop up. They're "used in slang" (and also not in slang, or at least not insulting slang, where "gay" has a long history of just meaning "happy", whilst "retarded" is often to do with decceleration/minimised acceleration of physical systems) but I'm not sure they're no more than minority words in the whole world of such language. They depict a subset of insult-givers (like the character in the comic, for whom it adds a certain additional characterisation) amongst all the many and varied insult-givers, and Randall surely chose such semi-bowlderised terms to not have to write any of all the far worse words he might also have done. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.31|172.71.94.31]] 16:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

== IP page to delete ==

I didn't see your thinking about why the Deletion category was not needed there. And, believe me as an IP myself, I've never known anything useful being said on an IP's User or User Talk page. With that example not breaking the pattern any. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.131|172.70.85.131]] 00:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:I just don't think there's a reason to delete it, it's useful to have a previous talk page if the IP continues to edit and people want to communicate with them [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
::"The IP" is whichever one of 'us' happens to land on that particular Cloudflare route.
::I'm not going to go back and find out which IP it represents, to check if it's in their current stock of connected gateways, but it might not be. Or it was even (depending on date) a pre-Cloudflare 'straight' access unproxied and thus no longer seen, even if the exact same editor on the exact same IP lucked on ''their'' initial gateway.
::Certainly it won't map to a meaningful 'user', chances may even be that it doesn't map to ''any'' user. IP-version User/User Talk pages are anachronisms pretty much as soon as they're created. Or before, if based upon trying to contact an author of an older edit. I was on 172.70.85.131, above, but who knows (before I submit it) what this reply's sign-off will say.
::And a one-shot editor may never ever see the results of any conversation that was tried to be started. Whereas I ''might'' see any response, anywhere, that contextually makes it plain that they're talking about an edit I once made.
::Honestly, I think it'd be worthwhile checking ''every'' IP-focussed namespace page and archiving anything truly interesting that found itself in there in some other central location then condemning them all to deletion. Maybe, if possible, prevent their creation too. But I don't have the ability to do anything (except sift through them for any of the very rare gems of quality, but I wouldn't be able to do anything about it from there on in, so...
::...not gonna do anything more about it (I can't, other than reinstate the To Be Deleted membership, whch I won't bother with), but I hope you understand my perspective on this. I've seen you become a very useful member of the community, who I generally respect for your input and tweaks to the site, and don't expect you to take instruction from li'l ol' me (not even working with an established identity). Just consider this as food for thought, and leave it at that if you wish. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.19|162.158.34.19]] 20:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== RTL/LTR: "...but I think it refers to me" ==

Yeah, it does. The point being that we might not do anything about the smartarses who vandalise knowingly (and I don't see a problem with what you otherwise did), but when someone thinks ''they'' have unique and funny joke (along the lines of putting "Citation needed"s ''everywhere'') they might spot the comment and then realise how we've seen it all done before so refrain from the prank. I can't even recall how many times we have had to revert things, but best to put off the casual comedian, and it won't change the outcome either way for the dedicated vandal with their blood up and looking to cause trouble. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.107|141.101.98.107]] 20:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:I guess you're right, I just thought it was very clear for everyone that rendering an entire article unreadable was an act of pure vandalism, but I guess an editor comment doesn't hurt. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== The reason "the image size wasn't there"? ==

...because it didn't need an image-size restriction, originally? Compare the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:Miss_lenhart.png previous and current version sizes]. Nice to have a (''huge!'') high-res headshot, no doubt, but clearly that's why you found that it now needs artificially constraining... No actual mystery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.63|172.70.85.63]] 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:Yeah you're right, I just assumed every comic had the image size to be future-proof. The weird thing was that the "imagesize: " part was already there, but there was no value. Anyway, nothing important.

== I disagree with Oxford commas. ==

"For breakfast I had some bread, toast, and jam." - A legitimate(ish) case of ", and ". Or "I created the world, and saw that it was good." I otherwise prefer to suscribe to replacing all non-final conjunctions in sequence with commas but ''not'' adding one before the ultimate (remaining) conjunction. That's like having "Fish, and chips", where it isn't an actual afterthought. And best to rephrase or repunctuate (e.g. with super-listing semicolons to separate) if you have confusing comma-breakout clauses that ''so'' easily clash (or lead you down funny garden paths) with Oxford Commas. My opinion, but this is why syntax is clearer when leaving out OCs. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.93|172.70.85.93]] 13:59, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:I just think it's better to use it everywhere to avoid any possible confusion. If we used it half the time, it would be inconsistent. But it's no big deal.
::Similarly, no big deal. Except that it ''looked'' like an error. You've done a lot of useful changes, recently... A ''lot''... Which is not a bad thing, I must add. Occasionally I've seen what (I thought!) you intended to say, and I've helped out with a misplaced word or two. And I honestly do not feel like OCs read correctly in many circumstances. How would you even OC something like "...you should paint it red, yellow or, maybe, orange"?
::The comma already does a lot of heavy lifting, four or five different uses can occur in the same sentence, with it commonly doing duty as a sub-clause parenthetical (except without the clear open/close distinction of an actual parenthetical) ''as well as'' conjunction-replacement within a list. You will find many instances of non-OCed lists on the site. In fact I find the "Please note that all contributions to explain xkcd..." bit, below this edit box, to be the exception and not the rule.
::Anyhoo... I 'corrected' an example, but did not re'correct' it once you made it obvious what rule you were working to. I think you're less right than me, naturally, even if I wouldn't say that you're more wrong. ;) But I thought I'd make you a brief note of my thoughts rather than edit-warring the issue. Less brief, now, but I hope you still take it in good humour. (Oh, yeah, I'm sort of Ok with Oxford Spelling, insofar as it's mostly what I use naturally. Except for the "-ize" bit. That and their Comma are totally against how I was taught at school, a number of decades ago. :P ) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.71|172.71.242.71]] 15:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:::You really seem to care about this a lot more than I do, if you want feel free to revert my edit back. I'm not even sure why we're here talking about commas lol
:::I'm no expert and I just like commas. Thanks for checking my edits, I think I've seen a few of your corrections. I have a lot of free time at the moment and I seem to like fixing up unorganized things here --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

== Science Girl/Hairbun ==

You may have noted that several of the Talk pages attached to those you changed already had discussions about whether someone was Hairbun or (a possibly grown-up version of) Science Girl, and you had people like Kynde support the change ''to'' treating her as Science Girl. No skin off my nose, but I'm not sure your arguments are strong enough to support your broad sweep changes in that regard. I think I'd side with "bun with trailing hair" being SG (regardless of apparent age/maturity, as the description only really says ''usually'' a child, whether you take that as prescriptivist or descriptivist) but not enough that I'd reverse your considerable efforts in this matter. But on the off-chance that you hadn't noticed the prior discussions and conclusions, before making your own assessment. FYI, only. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.204|172.71.178.204]] 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:I will properly reply to you tomorrow since it's midnight here. Btw thanks for letting me know these hyperlinks were rendered correctly, and for fixing my 1 typo <s>(after i corrected 100)</s>
::Guys, some things may be being taken too seriously. Assuming [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1608:_Hoverboard&diff=prev&oldid=317396 this was the 'one error'], yeah, the Pedant's Curse hits us all, that's the point. Easy to see how it was done (read as "a Category:Interactive..." rather than "an interactive", or whatever). Happens to the best of us, when concentrating on loads of other things. Not sure about the Jill thing, at all, myself, but that discussion is probably for soewhere else. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.158|172.69.79.158]] 22:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:::Nonononono I wasn't serious when I thanked you about the typo, I was also just kidding. I was joking about how after I corrected a ton of typos I added one more.
:::On the main topic you brought up: I think Jill's main characteristics (I'll talk about why I renamed her) are that she is a child, she is usually interested in science, and has always one or two buns with trailing hair. [[Hairbun]] isn't as defined as Jill: she just has a bun. This is what the page [[Hairbun]] (written entirely by Kynde, I haven't reformatted to remove the bullet points yet), say about the bun:
----
:::*Her appearance, apart from her glasses, can also change.
:::**In 703: Honor Societies, 708: Sex Dice, 1511: Spice Girl, 1601: Isolation and in every instance in 1608: Hoverboard her hair looks somewhat different, curly and with some kind of ponytail, but since '''her main distinguishing characteristic is the hair bun''', these comics are included.
:::[...]
:::*There are some characters with hair buns that are not Hairbun:
:::**Since she is a grown woman, she should not be confused with Jill or any other small girls with hair bun like in 1584: Moments of Inspiration.
----
:::And on the Page for Jill, before I ever touched it, it said:
:::*As she is usually also clearly a child she usually cannot be confused with Hairbun
----
:::Kynde mentioned [[1511: Spice Girl]] and [[1601: Isolation]] as featuring Hairbun and not Jill, but they look exactly like a grown-up Jill. Plus, on the gallery section on [[Hairbun]] (I'm working on adding back a better one since the old one was kinda broken UPDATE 11:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC): Added the gallery back with vector images), this was the first picture of Hairbun:
:::[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

:::So, to recap: Hairbun has always had a version with a bun with trailing hair, but it was inconsistent between comics, so I settled on Jill is a girl that always has trailing hair and Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.

:::On the topic of renaming Jill:
:::*I searched the wiki for Jill and found 3 discussions. One of them ended up "why world we even create a page for that girl, there aren't many comics featuring her.", but didn't criticize the name too much iirc
:::*We did the same thing for [[Danish]]. The only time she was given ''any'' name ("Danish in the sense of "darling" iirc), that was the name used.
:::*If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.
:::*I'm not sure about this, but I think she's slowing being added more and more outside science comics.

:::Wow this was long --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

== In reply to [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2794:_Alphabet_Notes&curid=26437&diff=321127&oldid=320916 this query]... ==

There's {{w|Welsh orthography|the Welsh}}, at the very least! (Well, you did ask! Even if it's truly not so relevent. ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.159|172.70.86.159]] 11:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
:Lol. TIL! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

== Plural animals ==

Following on from Ferret->Ferrets, what about the last remaining singular that is Category:Apatosaurus? (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin, as worthy as they often are, but this seems like the next logical step that I thought you might have done to finish that particular neatening job.) But I'll leave it up to you as to whether it's Apatosauruses, Apatosaurii or whatever else you might consider most appropriate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.98|172.70.85.98]] 10:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
:I actually thought about it, and I came to the conclusion that I don't know what the plural of that word is. Feel free to research if there's a "right" word and rename that category :)
:> (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin,
:Yeah I don't really organize everything I want to change beforehand, so whenever i notice a little thing is missing, I add it to every page that needs it. I guess it's easier to review my edits in bulk from a page's version history lol --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

== Username ==
I spotted a spam-like user named "Papyrus". [[User:ChristmasGospel|ChristmasGospel]] ([[User talk:ChristmasGospel|talk]]) 21:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
:Interesting, i edited that comic's page yesterday. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
== Community portal spam ==
The spammers seem to be deleting text from Community Portal. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 07:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks, but I couldn't find any recent example concerning me. Do you mind giving an example? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Possible Adminship? ==

Hi FaviFake, I’m Victoria. I’m planning on reaching out to Jeff via Twitter/X because there’s a long list of things that only he can do. You can see the list at my [[User:42.book.addict#To_Do_List_for_Jeff|user page]]. One of these tasks is promoting more admins. Seeing as you are quite active, and have done quite a lot of edits (top 10 in CS score-wow!), would you like to be mentioned in my message as a possible admin candidate? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: Oh hey, thanks for messaging me! I started caring a lot for this site about a year ago, went on a complete pause for a few months, and came back this week. You seem very active, love to see some new active users! I saw your message on the community portal saying you were trying to find a way to contact Jeff. That's actually something I've thought about doing for a long time but never actually tried since not even Davidy22 was able to contact him at one point iirc.
:Anyway, yes, I'd love to be an admin for this site since there are so many things I can't do as a user (i have my own to-do list, which includes 1) actually deleting pages in Pages to delete and 2) improving/fixing the comic templates and Main page).
: So yeah, I wish you good luck contacting him! My only advice is to use any possible way to (or to get someone else to) contact him without worrying too much about annoying him. His last contribution was more than a year ago, he can totally jump back in for a moment after being unreachable for so long. I really like your message, it's very well-written, now the hard part is getting it to him. Asking Davidy22 for his email address (or finding it online) sounds like a great idea to me. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Trivia below transcript ==
The FAQ page says that trivia is below transcript. I'm very sorry about this. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 00:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:Nono don't be sorry, you're totally right! I came back here after months of being offline and forgot about the order! I realised my mistake yesterday but didn't have the time to go look for the article to revert my edit. Please revert it if you get the chance to do it before me. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::There, I should've fixed it now. I see you also reverted my edit, thanks! [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== On the Ghosts in the NavPane ==

When I saw 42's inclusion of Ghosts in the Character NavPane, I was pondering asking for Demons and Aliens (the blob-monster types, or near variations, from both UFO-ish comics and far-future) to be added alongside.

But I agree with you that they're not ''really'' minor characters. Yet I think they (all of them) deserve a slot there, as they are as much a feature as the (Animals/)Squirrels section. Originally thought to suggest "Groups" (could include "Multiple Cueballs" and even "Children" for groups with otherwise un-IDed child characters), which you could still ''also'' add (but for human-character groups only), but now thinking "Other Beings" could hold Ghosts, Demons and Aliens (maybe "Future Beings" separate from the latter, or at least the differently-futuristic "Floating Orbs" as ''another'' other classification category in there). As a section between Real People and Animals, I thought, unless it's decided best to put them after Animals.

Food for thought, anyway. You (and 42, and maybe others) may have your own ideas on this, and I wouldn't (and can't) spring my own ideas upon you by suddenly just editing the appropriate source. It probably needs discussion. I nearly put my earlier thoughts in the Community Portal area, but as you're personally active on this at the moment I thought it might be easier for you to ponder if I finally commited it to writing just here. (Feel free to move this contrib/advertise it wider, if you see fit.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 14:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:Just popping in to add my 2 cents-I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having “other beings” in the navbox. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 16:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
::Hey there, thanks a lot for messaging me about this. I disagree with you for one specific reason: the navbox was initially supposed to catalogue the recurring characters in the comics which displayed more or less the same behaviours across comics, such as [[Black Hat]] and [[Beret Guy]]. It then expanded to include real people, such as politicians, which still remained the same characters across different comics. The animal section is different in that some of them are the same animals across comics (such as bobcats and red spiders, for example), but since we had to include them, we included EVERY animal, even when they were completely different every time, because it'd look weird if the only animals there were the specific ones i mentioned.
::If we included a section such as Other beings that includes ghosts, I believe it would be filled with characters that are not the same in every comic they appear in and the navbox would completely lose its intended purpose. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

== (Whoops, forgot a header!) ...FYC ==

If you agree with {{diff|356369|these additions/changes}}, with or without other adjustments, I was wondering if you'd like to do the respective changes to the Incomplete Article category page, as I find it's semi-protected and I'm thus locked out from the edits that I thought I might duplicate there too (in my IP state – yes, I know I could change this, but I'm happier just to leave it up to you/whoever). Anyway, for your consideration. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.75|162.158.202.75]] 17:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
: Done! Thanks. I removed a few technical details. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

==The [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project==
''The messages regarding the [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project have been moved to '''[[Talk:What If? chapters]]'''. To add a new topic regarding the index, [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:What_If?_chapters&action=edit&section=new click here].'' --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removed "Discussion" super-header. ==

I had wondered, as (at that time) you hadn't bothered to remove any of the ''other'' equivalent super-headers. It looked a bit like an accidental select-and-cut, like sometimes editors do, given your actual edit was waaay down the other end of the page. (It was a bit too neat, not like the usual case of somehow snipping off just one of the "="s, make a =="header"== into a ="header="=, effectively, but I've also seen similarly unmessy accidents happen, so your decent tightening up of the whitespace could have just as easily been a part of the same misclicking.)

I did check the companion pages, and they were all happyily as they (once) were. Note that the extra level of header ''does'' have use for (e.g.) putting a similar level of header at the bottom to give Archive, FAQ, etc, sections (not part of the now-top-levelisted points), or even such that we can have "for <foo>, see <otherPortal#section>" to gather things up with less repeats. Not to have their own subheaders (unless they, too, get so large that we have to further split them!), but to be seperate-but-appended like a Transcript (and maybe Trivia) section, regardless of how subheadered an in-depth Explanation gets. If we ever get that (and, really, we could do with a ''lot'' of archival for most of the Community Pages, and maybe some FAQing, for which I ''might'' suggest a subheadering to easily scan for... e.g. ... the situation with the MathML that seems to get revisited more often than not), then we probably need the superheaders back, unless we put messy indented-bullet-trees (at the top? with or without "expand"-hiding?) ''only'' for non-discussion items.

Not that I totally agree that "1.<many...>" (and the occasional "1.<something>.<subsubitem>" was unreadable, either, but ''so long'' as we don't have a further main(ish) header, of equal import, then ''maybe'' it's ok to do it your way. Just it seemed like a big decision to make, to cut out all the (admitedly untaken) options out of the equation. ...And that is a summary of the mental arithmatic whizzing through my head when I had decided (on balance) that you'd probably just made an unknowing misedit that needed bringing back in line with the others. Just to explain the snap decision to undo your 'accident'. Not sure whether you'd been purposefully thinking about it for far longer, of course. Maybe even a couple of minutes! ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.58|172.71.178.58]] 14:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:I totally agree with everything you said! One day I noticed there was a useless superheader at the top which was making the TOC unnecessarily slightly harder to scan through. We should definitely bring it back if someone decides to organise the portals, but I figured since it was untouched for more than a decade, it's likely it won't happen in the near future. There was no need to explain the reasoning behind your revert, but I appreciate you reaching out! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:06, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

==A simple Thank-you==
Thank you so much for expanding my knowledge of xkcd, the wiki, and wikis overall. That user page creation left a bit of a mark on me lol. I have found out that I have reached a high enough level to create user pages. I have created 2 user pages and 2 discussion pages for other worthy members of the community. Thank you for the very helpful advice, and thanks again for providing helpful information from the community. Sincerely, [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 05:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! I'm glad we have another active contributor <3   --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:09, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
::It's relevant to note that we only create User pages when people explicitly ask for them. On the other hand, '''User talk''' pages are created if you want to talk to that specific member privately. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removing references to order of LiveJournal comics ==

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1%3A_Barrel_-_Part_1&type=revision&diff=320394&oldid=320342 But WHY?] 
I'm very unhappy to realize you have deleted my hard work giving people a possibility to click through the first comics in the order they where released on livejournal. I have not checked them all, but I'm not happy that it has been deleted and would like to get it back. Pleas try to explain why you found it a good idea to remove this info from so many comics! I'm quite upset about it at the moment. And since you removed it would like you to restore it if you cannot make me see why! Seems there is also more info I put in that have been deleted? :-( --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:31, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:You are mistaken! I actually liked the idea of browsing the first comics in the original order ''so much'' that I moved it above the explanation! This means it's now much easier to browse them in the correct order, because the user is no longer required to scroll to the bottom of the page: the links are right below the comic.

:I did this for all the 50ish comics. I think you might also have missed the "Original title" and "Original caption" parts of these first comics. In every one of these comics, right under the title (above the image) there's an "Original title". Likewise, below every Title text there's now an "Original caption" part, which contains the LiveJournal caption. See for example comics [[4: Landscape (sketch)]] or [[8: Red spiders]]. I also added a link to the specific LiveJournal post both on the title and caption parts, so users can see them for themselves. Your hard work no longer sits in the hidden Trivia section, but is actually above everything else and easier to read and use!

:I do think it's still not perfect, especially part to browse the comics. I'd like to create a custom template with real buttons (not just links) and an actual explanation of the situation, or maybe integrate it directly into the {{tl|comic}} template. But still, a much better solution than putting everything in the last section! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::I'm sorry for the harsh words. Late that night I realized all my trivia info was deleted (did see the original title text was added), but did not realize that the info was relegated to a more prominent place. So I take back my comment, and instead now thank you for improving my work. Hope you accept this apology from a message written at a bad time. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:58, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Of course! You were very polite. I'm glad you're still active in this wiki :) --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Me to, so there at least is one active admin. Sadly I'm not very good at the tech stuff a<nd also do not have time to look into all kinds of wiki policies... Glad there are others like you who lift the mantle on those parts. We really need a guy like Davidy... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::UPDATE: I moved the sentences above the ==Explanation==, so it should now be clearer. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

== Jill's renaming ==

Hi FaviFake 
Just came around to think about the renaming og Science Girl, that I created, to Jill. I really do not like it, and we do not generally give generic figures a name, Megan and Danish the exceptions. And because she is in a comic based on a children song, the name is clearly from the song not because the generic Science Girl is called Jill. Jill is not even used in the comic, only in the title text. You wrote there where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you. But they are not on the talk page of Science Girls page. I'm seriously considering changing it back, so let me know where these discussions are located. I also think it was a mistake to call Danish, Danish, but it beats calling her Black Hats girlfriend. It was just a nickname he used, and they killed the witness as no one must know... But that was done way before I began editing this page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:21, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey, thanks for your message! I'll respond tomorrow because I don't have time, but for now I just wanted to note somewhere (before I forget) that I looked though all 41 appearances and counted the times where science is the main theme of the comic. The result was that the majority of Jill appearences are not related to science. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::Well I will have to check that but the first instance was included because it was a girl who where interested in science even though she doesn't look like ScienceGirl. And an adult version of her was included because it was science again. The question is of course if there are now a different girl... But I do not like the naming of her. We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob, and there was also someone who did not like Megan. But that I like now. I prefer keeping Danish, but do not like the reason why she got than name. And other generic characters have been given a name in some comics without we used this. And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:26, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::}}
Hey.
And an adult version of her was included because it was science again.
I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but this would actually help my case! "Girl" implies she's either a teenager or a child. This means that, if you wanted to broaden her definition to also include "adult versions", you'd have to use another name. Science Woman? Science Female Charachter? I think Jill is better: it sounds like a name a child would have, but doesn't prevent us from giving the name Jill to adult versions. If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.

We do not generally give '''generic figures''' a name
But I don't think she's a generic figure. In a bit more than a third of the comic appearences, she's specifically interested in science. This, to me, means she's likely the same person on most of the comics. SHe also has a similar behaviour.

Even if that weren't the case, we would still have to find a name for her that's generic enough, that represents her qualities, AND that's not a proper name. Or, we could just call her what Randall called her, "[[Jill]]". There is precendent on this wiki for giving a name to a character based solely on one instance, where the name wasn't even intended: that's [[Danish]]. Even more: Danish was used by Randall as an adjective, but here Randall gave us a proper name!

There where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you.
I didn't say they agreed with me. There was no consensus on all of them, iirc, mainly because few people partecipated. Yes, I remember they weren't on her talk page, which is weird, but they were somewhere else. I remember they were mostly even.

The first instance was included [...] even though she doesn't look like Science Girl
That specific comic is an exception, in all other comics she has a bun with trailing hair. Randall may have drawn a ponytail because of the limited space. Anyways, as I said, the majority of the comics featuring her aren't mainly about science. (Of course, almost all Randall comics relate to science, but I counted comics where it was intented.)

We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob
That's because there was consensus on the fact that Cueball is an everyman, while Rob is the same charachter.

And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song!
Well that's the only mention of her name we have, even if it's unrelated. I like that she was named after a nursery rhyme, it fits her character, since she's a child.

[...] I really do not like it, [...]

[...] I do not like the naming of her. [...]

[...] There was also someone who did not like Megan. But I like [Megan] now. [...]

[...] I really '''feel''' it is wrong to name her after a children song [...]
I'm starting to see a trend here. Do you think it could be possible you're against the name change because you simply... don’t like how it sounds? I didn't like how "Science Girl" sounded, but that's not why I changed her name...

--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:34, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply. Sadly you could not show me any discussion about the name change. Only that you said there where. So that did not help. Yes maybe I used the same wording many time. Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning... What I do not like about Jill and using that comic to name her, is that I do not think that comic at all is representative of the character I had identified and named Science Girl. But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem. I only new her as adult in [[1520: Degree-Off]] and I can see this has been changes, although I believe this should be reverted as this is not hairbun bu Science Girl. I did not know it had been removed. In this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1520:_Degree-Off&oldid=123879 version] she was named Science Girl] but it was removed without my knowing. And that she was an adult version was in this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 version]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::Looking at comics now, and just found this one, without looking for Jill and saw her here: [[2747: Presents for Biologists]]. To me the important thing is the interest in science and that the hairbun is not tight but with strings of hair hanging loose. So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman, often a child with a loose hairbun, not to be3 confused with the generic every woman Hairbun... Then Degree-Off is also clearly Jill. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:56, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::}}
Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning
I'm also not a native speaker, I'm Italian! :D I wasn't pointing out your choice of words but rather what you were trying to say, which is (I think?) that you don't like the name. Anyways:

To me the important thing is the interest in science [...] So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman [...]
It seems your opinion has changed completely then! This is what [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 you wrote] about [[Hairbun]] before I joined this wiki:
''Since she [Hairbun] is a '''grown woman''', she should not be confused with Science Girl or any other '''small girls''' with hair bun like in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]].''
According to this logic in this comic:
* [[1520: Degree-Off]] - taller than other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''
* [[2747: Presents for Biologists]] - as tall as other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''

Also, this would mean we'd have to rename Jill to someone else in a third or a fourth of her appearences.

But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem
I agree! If there's one thing that I think everyone can agreen on is that we shoudn't call a grown woman a "girl". And "Science Woman" sounds like a superhero.

So, to avoid naming Hairbun '''based on how she looks''' and Jill '''based on her displayed interest''' (I'll remind you, you said in Hairbun's page that this is Hairbun:)
[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

...all i did was standardise the matter:
*'''Jill is a child OR girl that always has trailing hair''' (except 1 comic), and
*'''Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.'''

I think any other definition would be incredibly confusing. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:Well I originally put in degree off as Science Girl as she both looked and behaved like Science Girl. So I may have changed my mind. Cannot find the picture you said that I said was Hairbun? Maybe it was from before I introduced Science Girl. I have created both of these characters and then others have changed the explanation and the name. I also called her [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hairbun&oldid=88388 Hair Bun Girl], which I can now see it wrong since she was a woman, but again, not native English. Here is my first creation of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123862 Science Girl]. There where more than a year between, so maybe I changed my mind regarding which could be hairbun in between? I'm certainly more interested in having those characters with hairbun and dangling hair to be another than normal hairbun now. And would today have collected those that looks like that together. Also there are many instances of Jill where she do not have a speaking part, thus saying she is always interested in science doesn't fit with how she is listed now... It is difficult. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oh yeah that makes sense, I didn't consider the fact that Science Jirl was created possibly years after Hairbun. I'm not sure I understood your last sentence, about Jill not speaking? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I think only a year after. But still. I meant that there are several instances with Jill where she do not have a speaking part in the comic, and thus cannot be said to have a special interest in science or her sharp wit. So if science should be her main indicator then she has to say something. But I do not really know how to make this as best as it could be. (Science Jirl, Jirl a combination of Jill and Girl ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

::::It'd be so funny if we settled on Science Jirl haha. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:10, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

== As I can't edit it... ==

Regarding the Editor FAQ:
For headlines, you have to use wiki-style code. The simplest way is a preceding semicolon at the beginning of the line which causes the entire line to be rendered in bold.
...I might be tempted to say something like "This makes use of {{w|Help:Wikitext#Description_lists|Description List}} markup", given how there are circumstances when a ";something:fuller description of something" is also actually useful. And then go on to say something about how this is functionally simpler than the actual (sub-)header use of =s, ==s, ===s, etc, (which you'd be advised to check what 'level' of (sub-)header you're already working in and go for the next level on from that) and would the usually be recorded in a Table Of Contents of either the page concerned or any page which it is transcluded within.

Except that we're going into really ''technical'' territory with the latter bit. Generally, ==s are for Explanation, Transcript, Trivia headers in comics, you could say. (The reason being is that the Main Page has a single-= header under which the Latest Comic is transcluded and so ==s are best to be inherited as transient sub-headers - but you don't need to say that... it's just an obvious reasong behind the stylistic decision.) Headering a section other than these, in a comic (such as a place for a Table Of Things, or similar) would generally be ===ed (or, rarely, ====ed, as a sub-sub-header of the Explanation/whatever). It is best to avoid any ===+ing at all in the Comic Talk page because, if the Comic page itself gets a TOC (some do, most don't, but all ''potentially'' could) then the transcluded Discussion gets (probably!) inadvertently and improperly added in. (You can force a NOTOC, and some other tricks, but I've never been able to find a NOTOCIFTRANSCLUDED-like thing, not without peppering noinclude sections around section headers, which is... getting ''far'' too complicated.) So, just saying "Don't use '==...'s in Talk Pages, stick to ';'s..." (even without the reasoning) might be an advisable statement.

Yeah, I'm giving you a lot of stuff here (I think you know all of it, actually), hopefully you can tease out some of the bits actually useful to suggest in the FAQ. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:52, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Darnit, also meant to add that in the {{template|Citation needed}} explanation you wrote, could you change {{template|actual citation needed}} to {{template|Actual citation needed}}? The latter is the actual template, the former is just a redirect. No harm in ''using'' the redirect-needing ones (generally), but you might as well advertise the correct ones. Like you don't advertise {{template|cn}} or {{template|fact}} (both ->{{template|Citation needed}}, as are {{template|citation needed}}, {{template|Citation Needed}} and other case-accomadating variations), though people still are able to use them. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:58, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

User talk:FaviFake

2025-04-11T21:52:32Z

172.68.205.164: /* As I can't edit it... */ new section

1936: Desert Golfing

2024-10-20T21:39:21Z

172.68.205.164: Undo revision 353359 by 172.69.214.108 (talk) Incorrect on both counts.

{{comic
| number = 1936
| date = January 1, 2018
| title = Desert Golfing
| image = desert_golfing.png
| titletext = I just want to stay up long enough to watch the ball drop into the hole number 2018.
}}

==Explanation==
A common joke surrounding the turn of the New Year is to make a comment about "next year" on New Year's Eve or "last year" on New Year's Day. While technically correct, some people may derive a snarky humor from making observations about the span of years when the reality has been more along a span of days or even, as in this comic, only a few hours.

In this, the second of two [[:Category:New Year|New Year comics]] in a row, with this one being released on New Year's Day 2018, [[Cueball]] observes that he has [[1475|technically]] "been playing ''{{w|Desert Golfing}}'' nonstop since late 2017". Desert Golfing is a game that takes place in an side-scrolling desert, where the player can shoot a golf ball using a one finger swipe to determine direction and power. The entirety of the "golf course" is made of sand, making the physics of the golf ball more difficult to predict and control, as if from a bunker. After reaching a hole, the game automatically generates a completely new hole, with a ludicrous total of 10,000 holes needed to complete the entire game.

Although Cueball's statement could be taken to mean he has devoted his waking hours to the game, the clock on the wall reveals both the truth of his comment and that he is not exaggerating. While he has only been playing the game for two and a half hours, give or take, those two-and-a-half hours started at about 11:10 PM on December 31st, meaning that it is presently January 1st and he has indeed been playing the game "nonstop since late 2017" (assuming he has not taken a break to eat or use the facilities).

Someone off-panel acknowledges the joke by saying that he should "take a break in 2018", and Cueball declares it is his New Year's resolution to go to bed. This is not a typical New Year's resolution, as most resolutions are about something you need to change in your life from last year, and going to bed (or at least sleeping) is not something you would have been able to avoid for a whole year.{{fact}} This may also be making a joke about how quickly many New Year's resolutions are broken, as Cueball has singularly failed to stick to his. New Year's resolutions have been mentioned before, the first time in [[1154: Resolution]], where the tradition of {{w|New Year's resolutions}} is the entire joke.

The title text states that the only reason Cueball has stayed up to play Desert Golfing is to watch the ball drop into hole number 2018 — this is a pun on the {{w|Times Square Ball}}, a pyrotechnical device in New York City that lights up spectacularly as soon as the new year begins. Because the event is televised on many news channels, "watching The Ball drop" is now a common way to count down the seconds to the new year. Cueball takes this literally, and tries to drop his (golf) ball to signify the beginning of 2018.

==Transcript==
:[An analog clock showing 11:12 hangs on the wall left above of Cueball who is sitting on a couch leaning on the left armrest, feet up on the couch. He holds a smartphone horizontally and the screen is clearly brown. Above him is a large brown bubble showing the content of the screen, thus showing that he is playing Desert Golfing. The sky is light brown, the sand below is dark brown, the golf ball is white and is followed by a white line showing its trajectory towards the gray flag stick with a yellow flag on it, which is to the right of the screen. The hole is just before the flag stick, an indentation in the sand.]

:[The clock is now showing 12:00 and Cueball is sitting straight upright on the couch, the screen display above him shows that he continues to play, but now on a new golf hole with different contours. The trajectory of the ball is much more complicated than before, and it seems he has had to play a very special loop shot to get out of a deep pit.]

:[The clock is showing 12:34 as Cueball once again sits as in the first panel, but now towards the right armrest and he is almost lying down with his head on the rest. Once again the screen is visible above him and it is shown that the hole has changed again.]

:[The clock is showing 1:47 when Cueball, now sitting up against the right armrest, finally speaks while continuing to play, with the brown screen visible, as he holds it on his knees, but the screen display is not shown. An off-panel voice answers him from the right.]
:Cueball: Technically, I've been playing ''Desert Golfing'' nonstop since late 2017.
:Off-panel voice: Might want to take a break sometime in 2018.
:Cueball: Yeah, my New Year's resolution is to go to bed.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:New Year]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Sport]]
[[Category:Video games]]

3000: Experimental Astrophysics

2024-10-19T04:01:36Z

172.68.205.164:

{{comic
| number = 3000
| date = October 18, 2024
| title = Experimental Astrophysics
| image = experimental_astrophysics_2x.png
| imagesize = 317x490px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Our experiment will be expensive, but we believe it will produce important spin-offs, especially if we manage to hit the sun from the right angle.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a THORNE-ŻYTKOW BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{Citation needed}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

2994: Númenor Margaritaville

2024-10-05T23:12:03Z

172.68.205.164: Template-based wikilinkify, as per site standard.

{{comic
| number = 2994
| date = October 4, 2024
| title = Númenor Margaritaville
| image = numenor_margaritaville_2x.png
| imagesize = 553x553px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I see white shores, and beyond it, a far green country under a tequila sunrise.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an ELVISH PARROTHEAD - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Cueball is conflating {{w|J.R.R. Tolkien}}'s "[https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/N%C3%BAmenor Númenor]" with {{w|Jimmy Buffett}}'s "{{w|Margaritaville}}". The Elf who is telling him about Númenor (styled "Numenor"), and Aragorn's link to it, becomes progressively more upset, and for cause.

Aragorn, more precisely [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Aragorn_II Aragorn II], is the principal Mannish protagonist of Tolkien's {{w|The_Lord_of_the_Rings|The Lord of the Rings}}. He is crowned High King of Gondor and Arnor at the end of the saga. He is descended from [https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Elros Elros Tar-Minyatur], first king of Númenor and brother of {{w|Elrond}}.

"I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead" is a line from Buffett's song "Growing Older But Not Up", from his 1981 album ''{{w|Coconut Telegraph}}''. "Tar-Pharazôn" refers to the twenty-fifth, and last, king of Númenor. He sought to conquer the {{w|Valinor|Undying Lands}}, thereby winning eternal life or dying in the attempt. He was therefore responsible for the destruction of Númenor, the removal of the Undying Lands from {{w|Cosmology_of_Tolkien%27s_legendarium#Arda|Arda}}, and the transformation of Arda into a sphere. Cueball mistakenly appends the Elvish ({{w|Quenya}}) royal title Tar to the Mannish ({{w|Adûnaic}}) regnal name Pharazôn; the king's unused Quenya name is Tar-Calion, whereas his Adûnaic name is [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Ar-Pharaz%C3%B4n Ar-Pharazôn]. This misuse likely contributes to the annoyance of his elvish companion.

"If there's a heaven for me, I'm sure it has a beach attached" is a quote from the chapter "A Caribbean Soul" of Buffett's autobiography ''{{w|A Pirate Looks at Fifty}}''. [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tol_Eress%C3%ABa Tol Eressëa] is an island off the coast of Aman, the continent on which the Valar (divine angelic spirits) live. Aman is thought to have been inspired by the concept of a [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Aman#Inspiration paradise out of time].

Cueball's last line alludes to a statement made by Galadriel in ''{{w|The Fellowship of the Ring}}'', in the chapter "The Mirror of Galadriel": "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." Cueball's altered version of the statement refers to {{w|Key West, Florida}}, a city closely associated with Buffett, where he lived for many years, recorded albums, and established the first restaurant in his {{w|Jimmy Buffett's Margaritaville|Margaritaville chain}}.

The title text alludes to a line from Chapter 9:The Grey Havens in ''{{w|The Return of the King}}''. "And then it seemed to him" ({{w|Frodo_Baggins|Frodo}}) "that as in his dream in the house of Bombadil, the grey rain-curtain turned all to silver glass and was rolled back, and he beheld white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise." The modified line makes a reference to the {{w|Tequila sunrise}} cocktail - and, perhaps, to the {{w|Tequila_Sunrise_(Eagles_song)|song by Eagles}}, which is thematically similar to "Margaritaville".

Tolkien's legendarium is [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:LOTR frequently alluded to] in xkcd.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[An Elf and Cueball are walking to the right. The Elf is wearing a dress and a decorated headband around long blonde hair.]
:Elf: Aragorn was king of Gondor, but we Elves remember when his line ruled Numenor.
:Cueball: Oh, the place from the Jimmy Buffett songs?

:[Closeup on Cueball.]
:Elf [off-panel]: What.
:Cueball: The semi-mythical seafaring Atlantic paradise? He sang about it. With the fancy cocktails?

:[The Elf and Cueball stand facing each other.]
:Elf: ... You mean Margaritaville?
:Cueball: Yeah, that must be the modern name.

:[Closeup on Cueball.]
:Elf [off-panel]: Numenor is not Margaritaville.
:Cueball: "I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead," sang Tar-Pharazôn, king of island life.

:[The Elf, now facepalming, and Cueball stand facing each other.]
:Elf: Please stop.
:Cueball: "If there's a heaven for me, I'm sure it has a beach attached" is about the shores of Tol Eressëa.

:[The Elf is walking away from Cueball, to the left. Cueball raises one arm and finger.]
:Elf: See, this is why I'm leaving the world of Men.
:Cueball: You shall diminish, and go into Key West.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:LOTR]]
[[Category:Music]]
[[Category:Songs]]
[[Category:Food]]

887: Future Timeline

2024-09-29T22:17:30Z

172.68.205.164: Stopit you two.British definitions of "White" don't even completely match US definitions of "White", so def. deserves quoting for the ambiguity.

{{comic
| number = 887
| date = April 18, 2011
| title = Future Timeline
| before = [[#Explanation|↓ Skip to explanation ↓]]
| image = future timeline.png
| titletext = Not shown: the approximately 30,000 identical, vaguely hysterical articles titled "WHITE PEOPLE IN [THE US/BRITAIN] TO BECOME MINORITY BY [YEAR]!", which came up for basically any year I put in.
}}

{{TOC}}==Explanation==
This comic uses the same strategy as comic [[715: Numbers]], in which [[Randall]] uses Google to search for phrases and then charts the results. This one is charted as a timeline, whereas 715 was charted as line graphs.
It is a list of things predicted or announced by anyone at any time (the ones you see on Google search using "by the year..." or similar statements).

"2101 - War Was Beginning" is a reference to the opening narration of video game ''Zero Wing''; the same narration is famous for the internet meme "{{w|All your base are belong to us}}". As there are not any other out and out references in the comic, and the rest are actually results that you can find using Randall's methods, "War Was Beginning" was probably the only thing he got when he googled 2101 as well.

Certain events in this comic, e.g., "Social Security stops running surplus", are repeated multiple times. Also, certain bizarre events, like "Apocalypse occurs", or "Flying cars reach market", happen before rather plausible things, like "'Big one' hits California". Certain events, like "Japan is a robot-only country" or "Gillette introduces 14-blade razor" may be related to the recurring theme [[605: Extrapolating]].

According to [https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p25-1144.pdf some official projections], (non Hispanic) "{{w|White people}}" will no longer be the majority in the United States by 2045 due to low birth rates and high rates of immigration. The title text is Randall's statement that, for both the US and Great Britain, there are so many sources that mention this, for any year he cared to search for and many using more far more doubtful sources (if any), that he decided that it was not worth flooding the chart with all these spurious repetitions, even though he did include other less prolific recurring themes.

This comic has similar features to [[1413: Suddenly Popular]], [[1093: Forget]], and [[891: Movie Ages]].

==The predictions==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Year
! Prediction
! Further Details
! Outcome
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2012
| World population
| Ever since the advent of modern medicine and the more efficient agricultural processes developed since the Industrial Revolution, the human population had been growing at an unprecedented rate. This has caused some people to {{w|Human overpopulation|worry about overpopulation}}, which would cause a scarcity of resources and overcrowding, and propose various solutions, most of which involve some form of eugenics. 7 billion is a landmark number because it is a multiple of 1 billion.
| Close; Earth reached 7 billion in late 2011.
|-
| Flying cars
| For decades, flying cars have been a staple of futuristic sci-fi and technological predictions. So far very few of these predictions, which to tend to hover around 5–10 years from whatever the current date is, have come true.
| Too early; a flying car designed for consumer use was [https://www.suasnews.com/2021/04/announcing-aska-the-electric-take-off-and-landing-flying-car-for-consumers first demonstrated in July 2021] , but has yet to go into production. You could argue that helicopters count as flying cars, but these are not affordable{{citation needed}} and hence not widely used by the general public.
|-
| Canada cuts greenhouse emissions
| Currently, the Earth is experiencing an unprecedented period of warming we call global warming, caused in part by greenhouse emissions, which are gases that help trap heat in the atmosphere. Countries have repeatedly gotten together and promised to stop emitting greenhouse gases, but so far they have failed to meet their targets.
| False. Canada withdrew from the Kyoto treaty in late 2011, and its emissions in 2012 were 18% ''above'' 1990 levels (though its population had grown 26% and its GDP had grown 67% in that period).
|-
| Apocalypse occurs
| The end of a cycle of the Mayan calendar on December 22, 2012 has been used in popular culture as a basis for predicting the end of the world. Amongst other things, this included the film '2012'. Some people took this rather more seriously, and actually believed that the world would end on this date.
| False.{{Citation needed}}
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2013
| National debt paid off
| For years, the subject of national debt (in the USA) has been a political point of contention. While both parties theoretically support reducing the debt or paying it off entirely, Democrats are more willing to spend to pull the country out of recessions in the economy and Republicans to cut taxes. The last time that spending did not exceed revenue begin under Clinton, a Democrat, and ended after George W. Bush, a Republican, said that this amounted to taxpayers being "overcharged" and taxes were lowered, followed by the Great Recession. Clinton at one point proposed [https://money.cnn.com/1999/06/28/economy/clinton/ paying off the debt by 2015].
| False.
|-
| Microchipping all Americans
| Microchips are small computer chips, typically embedded in pets in case they get lost, that contain information about the pet. Some, more paranoid, people worry about the government microchipping everyone in an effort to monitor their activities.
| False, although voluntary RFID implants do exist.
|-
| Homelessness ended in MA
| In 2008, the Commission To End Homelessness in Massachusetts, under Governor Deval Patrick, proposed a plan to all but eliminate homelessness over the next five years (hence the 2013 end-date on the comic).
| False.
|-
| Health care reform law repealed
| A health care reform law, popularly known as Obamacare, was signed into law in 2010. Ever since, many Republicans have tried (in vain) to repeal it, disliking the idea that government should provide and require healthcare. However, President [[Joe Biden]] has stated to restore Obamacare.
| Too early; almost repealed in 2017.
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2014
| US leaves Afghanistan
| After the {{w|September 11 attacks|terrorist attack}} on the {{w|World Trade Center (1973–2001)|World Trade Center}} (WTC) in New York on September 11, 2001, the United States invaded Afghanistan, due to the Taliban allegedly hosting al-Qaeda, the terrorist organization behind the attacks. The war has gone on since then, with the public growing increasingly tired of it. Public support then favoured a withdrawal, but for military and logistical reasons, the government could not simply move all the US troops in Afghanistan to their home. Therefore, the government promised to eventually withdraw all troops, initially planned to do so by the end of 2014.
| Too early; the remaining US troops [https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/afghanistan-afghan-troops-struggle-to-replace-americans-at-key-bagram-air-base-2480356 left Afghanistan in June 2021.]
|-
| GNU/Linux dominant OS
| An operating system, or OS, is the software that forms the structure in which applications on you computer function. Some typical OSs include Mac OS X, Windows 10, and Linux. The first two of those three are commercial products, sold as a copy by a company. The last is an open-source OS, one that anyone can download and modify free. Typically, open-source software is used by a small number of socially conscious people.
| False, although Linux-based Android dominated phones since 2011.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2015
| New Horizon reaches Pluto
| The New Horizon spacecraft is a U.S. space mission designed to go to Pluto and take photographs, collect samples, etc.
| True. [https://pluto.jhuapl.edu It reached Pluto on July 14, 2015].
|-
| Healthcare law causes hyperinflation
| The National Inflation Association warned that the [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/healthcare-bill-to-cause-us-hyperinflation-by-2015-88711032.html healthcare bill would cause U.S. hyperinflation by 2015.]
| False.
|-
| Millennium development goals achieved
| {{w|Millennium Development Goals}}
| False.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2016
| Baby boomers begin turning 65
| {{w|Baby boomers}} are individuals conceived in the years following World War Two, roughly defined as those born from 1946-1959. This isn't so much a prediction as basic math; if you were born in 1946, you turned 65 in 2011.
| True.
|-
| Android takes 38%/45% of market share
| {{w|Android (operating system)|Android}} is a popular operating system for smartphones and tablets, created by Google. Market share is the percentage of all devices that use the product, in this case the Android operating system. These entries together are humorous because they cannot both happen at the same time.
| Too late; passed these marks in 2010. {{w|Android OS}}'s [https://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp market share was already 84.4% as of the third quarter of 2014,] showing that both estimates were overly conservative.
|-
| Windows phone overtakes iOS
| {{w|iOS}} is the operating system used by Apple iPhones. At the time of the comic, Apple's mobile OS is much more popular than Microsoft's. The article Randall found predicts that the tables will turn. However, Windows Phone was discontinued in 2017, with support for the last version (Windows Phone 10) ending on December 10, 2019.
| False.
|-
| rowspan="5"| 2017
| China completes lunar mission
| The {{w|Chinese space program}} has plans for extraterrestrial exploration, including a manned mission to the moon.
| False. The first sample-return mission was completed in November 2020.
|-
| Social Security stops running surplus
| The first of many predictions about the United States {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} trust fund program, all predicting its decline due to a variety of factors.
| Too early. Occurred in 2021.
|-
| US budget balanced
| The {{w|United States federal budget}} outlines how much the US government spends on what in a given fiscal year. The budget is not required to be balanced, and so often more money is spent than is earned in revenue, causing the national debt to rise.
| False. Still pretty negative.
|-
| Newspapers become obsolete and die out
| The increasing popularity of social media and online news has caused a steady decline in the popularity of print media.
| False. Though newspapers (especially printed ones) are in decline, they are certainly not obsolete as of 2017, or 2022, for that matter.
|-
| Cosmetic surgery doubles
| {{w|Cosmetic Surgery}}
| False. According to the ASPS (American Society of Plastic Surgeons), 1.6 million cosmetic surgeries were performed in 2011, while 1.8 million were performed in 2017, an increase of only 0.2 million.
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2018
| Social Security stops running surplus
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} again.
| Still too early.
|-
| Jesus returns to Earth
| A number of Christians have attempted to predict the return of Christ (a.k.a. the {{w|second coming}} or the rapture) using clues from The Bible, even though the Bible and other religious texts says that "no man can know the date" and that it would be within the lifetime of some who witnessed Jesus's first appearance. Several predicted dates have come and gone.
| False.
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2019
| Social Security stops running surplus
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} again.
| Still too early.
|-
| Every baby has genes mapped at birth
| {{w|Gene Mapping}}
| False.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2020
| Solar power becomes cheaper than fossil fuels
| Scientists estimate that more than half of the {{w|fossil fuels}} in existence have already been found and that fossil fuel production will begin to decline due to the scarcity, causing prices to increase. At the same time, improvements in {{w|Solar Power|solar technology}} are causing the prices for solar energy to steadily decrease.
| True, though only in {{w|Cost of electricity by source#Recent_global_studies|certain cases}}.
|-
| Keyboards and mice become obsolete
| {{w|Computer input device|Computer input devices}} are beginning to adopt other inputs, such as trackpads, voice commands, touch screens, and eye tracking. While touch screens in particular are gaining widespread use with the rise of smartphones and tablets, as of 2022 desktop computers that use mice are still fairly common. And while voice-to-text has greatly improved, it still doesn't have the accuracy to replace typing. None of the other text inputs are as fast as a keyboard, and none are suitable for writing program code.
| False. While touchscreen devices ''are'' increasingly common, desktop computers are still very much in use. Mice continue to be used alongside touchscreens and trackpads, and keyboards remain the dominant method of writing on computers.
|-
| New Tappan Zee bridge constructed
| A {{w|Tappan_Zee_Bridge#Replacement_bridge|replacement bridge}} was announced in 2008.
| Too late; completed in 2017.
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2021
| US debt reaches 97% of GDP
| {{w|US Debt}}
| Too late; reached in 2011.
|-
| US unemployment falls to 2.8%
| {{w|Unemployment in the United States}}
| False: because of the COVID-19 pandemic, unemployment has actually ''increased''.
|-
| Restored caliphate unifies Middle East
| A {{w|caliphate}} is a form of {{w|Islam|Islamic}} theocracy, centred around a Caliph, or successor to the prophet {{w|Muhammad}}. This prediction foreshadows the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), which attempted but failed to create a caliphate in the Levant.
| False.
|-
| Lake Mead evaporates
| Formed by the {{w|Hoover Dam}} on the {{w|Colorado River}}, {{w|Lake Mead}} is the largest reservoir in the United States (measured by maximum capacity). It hasn't reached its capacity since 1983, due to drought and increased demand for water. This is linked to {{w|global warming}}.
| False, although water levels continue to fall.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2022
| Kilimanjaro snow-free
| At 5,895 metres, {{w|Kilimanjaro}} is the highest mountain in {{w|Africa}}, and the highest free-standing mountain in the world. Around 85% of its ice cover disappeared between 1912 and 2011, and it continues to recede.
| False.
|-
| HTML 5 finished
| The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) began work on {{w|HTML 5}} in 2004.
| Too late; 5.0 specification released in 2014, but incremental updates continue.
|-
| Newspapers become obsolete and die out
| This is the second time this prediction has appeared.
| False.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2023
| Jesus returns to Earth (again)
| Again.
| False.
|-
| US debt passes 100% of GDP
| This references the common fear that {{w|US Debt}} will exceed GDP, possibly causing {{w|Economic bubble|economic turmoil}}.
| Too late; reached in 2012.
|-
| All unprotected ancient forests gone from Pacific Northwest
| Likely due to a combination of wildfire and {{w|deforestation}}.
| False.
|-
| rowspan="5"| 2024
| Atlantis begins to reappear
| {{w|Atlantis}} is the name of a fictional/hypothetical island, which is supposed to have been lost beneath the sea. It's not clear why ''rising'' sea level would make it reappear.
| False.
|-
| Orangutans extinct in wild
| {{w|Orangutan|Orangutans}} are a species of great ape, currently classed as an {{w|endangered species}}, and found only in the {{w|Rainforest|rainforests}} of {{w|Borneo}} and {{w|Sumatra}}.
| False.
|-
| China lands men and women on the moon
| The {{w|Chinese space program}} has plans for extraterrestrial exploration, including a manned mission to the moon.
| False; the Chinese government planned a manned mission to the moon for the 2030s.
|-
| NASA sets up permanent moon base
| There has been a lot of hype recently about finally returning to the moon, vis-a-vis Orion.
| Too early; the {{w|Artemis program}} plans to put the {{w|Lunar Gateway}} in orbit around the moon, which will be flown up in [https://www.nasa.gov/gateway-frequently-asked-questions four launches over the course of six years, beginning "no earlier than 2025"]
|-
| Female professionals pass males in pay
| This prediction is an erroneous extrapolation from the current (at the time this comic was made) rate at which female incomes were catching up to male incomes.
| False.
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2025
| World population reaches 8 billion
| Given current rates, it seems unlikely it will take this long to hit 8 billion, but advances in birth control options and especially their availability in developing nations may slow the current rate considerably.
| Too late. This number was reached in late 2022, although it may have been reached later as some countries overcount their population.
|-
| Two billion people face water shortages
| https://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/28-01-2008/103693-water_crisis-0/
|
|-
| 62 MPG cars introduced
| 62 miles per gallon, ~3.8 L/100km. 62 MPG is a very good mileage rate at today's standard, even though [https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5231050&page=1 some cars can be driven carefully so as to attain over 100 MPG].
|
|-
| US power fades
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-us-power-will-fade-by-2025/
| Hard to know what the precise metric for this would be.
|-
| rowspan="5"| 2026
| Atlantis emerges completely
| {{w|Atlantis}} is the name of a fictional/hypothetical island, which is supposed to have been lost beneath the sea. It seems that it has taken 2 years for it to emerge completely.
|
|-
| Rock Bands die out
| https://bestbands.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/rock-bands-to-die-out-by-2026/
|
|-
| US debt paid off
| [https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/business/27view.html It’s 2026, and the Debt Is Due.]
|
|-
| Car accidents cease
| Presumably, cars will be fully automated and able to pilot themselves at this point and will have fail-safes that prevent collisions currently attributed to user error. Car accidents will always be possible, however, due to mechanical and electrical failures.
|
|-
| West coast falls into ocean
| Most likely due to {{w|San_Andreas_Fault#The_next_.22Big_One.22|a significant seismic event}}.
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2027
| Japan introduces new fastest Maglev train
| Japan's railway systems are famous for their "bullet trains", or {{w|Shinkansen}}. The Chūō Shinkansen is planned to be opened in this year.
|
|-
| Lyndon Larouche-planned Mars colony is established
| https://totse.mattfast1.com/en/technology/space_astronomy_nasa/moonmars.html
|
|-
| Social Security stops running surplus
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} again.
|
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2028
| Tobacco outlawed
| Tobacco products (cigarettes and chewing tobacco) have become more and more taboo in modern culture, with most public places and private businesses forbidding their use indoors and near places children congregate.
|
|-
| 40% of coral reefs gone
| Many factors have been attributed to the decline of {{w|Coral_reef#Threats|coral reefs}}, including mining, over fishing, and rising ocean tempteratures.
|
|-
| US debt paid off
| {{w|US Debt}}
|
|-
| Social Security stops running surplus
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} again
|
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2029
| Social Security trust fund exhausted
| The next stage of the collapse of {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}}. After years of deficits deplete the trust fund, the program will only be able to pay out as much in benefits as it takes in each year.
|
|-
| Computers pass the Turing test
| It is no coincidence that 2029 is the timeline for Terminator Movies.
| Some computer programs already clear the Turing Test about 30% of the time.
|-
| Aging reversed
| [https://www.zdnet.com/article/manhattan-beach-project-to-reverse-aging-by-2029/ Manhattan Beach Project to reverse aging by 2029]
|
|-
| Wikipedia reaches 30 million articles
|
| As of July 2024, Wikipedia has over [https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias#Grand_Total 63.2 million total articles], if all languages are included. The source being cited may have meant the English language Wikipedia, which has only {{w|Special:Statistics|6.8 million articles}}.
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2030
| Half of Amazon rain forest lost to logging
| WWF press release - [https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/climate-change-speeds-up-amazon-s-destruction-says-wwf Climate Change Speeds Up Amazon’s Destruction] referring to a report on the [https://assets.panda.org/downloads/amazonas_eng_04_12b_web.pdf Amazon's vicious cycles].
|
|-
| Cancer deaths double from 2008 levels
| From the [https://www.cancer.org/myacs/newengland/global-cancer-burden-to-double-by-2030 Global Cancer Burden to Nearly Double by 2030] article about the article from page 37 of [https://www.cancer.org/research/cancerfactsfigures/globalcancerfactsfigures/global-facts-figures-2nd-ed Global Cancer Facts & Figures 2nd edition].
|
|-
| Arctic ice-free in summer
| https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/10/091015-arctic-ice-free-gone-video-ap.html
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2031
| Computers controlled by thought
| https://www.gizmag.com/future-mobile-technology/17554/
| As of 2017, this is {{w|Brain–computer interface|already possible}}, but still not used in any mass available devices as of 2022.
|-
| Realtors replaced by technology
| https://agbeat.com/editorials/will-realtors-be-replaced-by-technology-by-the-year-2031/
|
|-
| Social Security trust fund exhausted
| https://crfb.org/blogs/cbo-95-percent-confident-social-security-trust-fund-runs-out-25-years
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2032
| "Big One" hits San Francisco
| {{w|San Franscisco}} is located on the {{w|San Andreas Fault}}, which is predicted to produce a magnitude 7+ earthquake in the 'near future'. This event is referred to as {{w|San_Andreas_Fault#The_next_.22Big_One.22|"The Big One"}}.
|
|-
| US elects first married lesbian President
| https://4chandata.org/g/In-what-major-ways-do-you-think-the-world-of-2032-will-be-different-from-that-of-today-a20155
|
|-
| Entire world converted to Christianity
| https://www.goddiscussion.com/38920/christian-domininionsts-to-take-over-the-world-by-2032/
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2033
| Kilimanjaro ice disappears
| https://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/02/idUSL2210825
|
|-
| India becomes superpower
| https://www.facebook.com/pages/India-A-SuperPower-by-2033/151177191568098
|
|-
| Europe reaches Mars
| [https://www.spacedaily.com/news/esa-general-03zb.html Specifically, a manned European mission]. ESA's {{w|Mars Express}} probe landed in 2003.
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2034
| US diabetes cases double, treatment costs triple
| [https://www.reuters.com/article/2009/11/27/us-diabetes-usa-costs-idUSTRE5AQ0C220091127 U.S. diabetes cases to double, costs triple by 2034]
|
|-
| US builds autonomous robot army
| The concept of robots built for military service is another common element of science fiction stories. [https://www.aos-inc.com/index.php/medialias/press-releases?id=112 Unmanned Systems] article, about the [https://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA522247 2009-2034 Unmanned Systems Integrated Roadmap] publication ([https://www.amazon.com/2009-Unmanned-Integrated-Aircraft-Technologies-ebook/dp/B0047743A0 details at Amazon]).
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2035
| 80% of America's energy comes from renewable sources
| From fact sheet on Obama's [https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/01/25/fact-sheet-state-union-president-obamas-plan-win-future State of the Union.]
|
|-
| Himalayan glaciers down 80% in size
| From an IPCC report on [https://web.archive.org/web/20100116132657/https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg2/en/ch10s10-6-2.html The Himalayan glaciers] that has been analysed in quite some depth. See for example detailed article on an [https://www.yaleclimateconnections.org/2010/02/anatomy-of-ipccs-himalayan-glacier-year-2035-mess/ anatomy of IPCC’s mistake].
|
|-
| Arctic sea lane opens
| [https://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/730ef8fe-27e1-11e0-8abc-00144feab49a.html#axzz3OBgEHYNY Arctic sea lane could open by 2035]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2036
| 80% of US has access to high-speed rail
| [https://www.wnyc.org/story/284946-obama-80-percent-of-americans-should-have-access-to-high-speed-rail-by-2036/ Obama: 80 Percent of Americans Should Have Access to High Speed Rail By 2036]
|
|-
| Asteroid Apophis misses/hits Earth
| 99942 Apophis is a near-Earth asteroid that caused a brief period of concern in December 2004 because initial observations indicated a probability of up to 2.7% that it would hit Earth on April 13, 2029.
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2037
| Arctic ice-free in September
| {{w|Arctic sea ice decline}}
|
|-
| Social Security trust fund exhausted
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}}
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2038
| 32-bit timestamps roll over, causing Y2K-level chaos
| On 03:14:07 UTC on 19 January 2038, the value of time_t rolls over, that is it will return to zero. time_t is a computing standard measurement of time; it is a count of the number of seconds since 00:00:00 UTC on 1 January 1970. time_t is used by most computer systems to store date and time information. It is recommended that new software should convert to a 64 bit time_t; indeed, most operating systems designed to run on 64-bit hardware already use signed 64-bit time_t integers. This would give an epoch of 15:30:08 UTC on 4 December 292,277,026,596 (292 billion years away). Of course, legacy systems may not be upgradable so action taken now should prevent this becoming a problem closer to 2038...
|
|-
| "Big One" hits California
| [https://www.presstelegram.com/technology/20080414/the-big-one-likely-to-hit-by-2038 `The big one' likely to hit by 2038]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2039
| US population hits 400 Million
| [https://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2008/us400million.aspx U.S. Population Projected to Hit 400 Million in 2039]
|
|-
| Severe heat waves become commonplace
| [https://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/july/extreme-heat-study-070810.html Heat waves and extremely high temperatures could be commonplace in the U.S. by 2039, Stanford study finds]
|
|-
| Scientology becomes majority religion in US
| [https://home.snafu.de/tilman/2039.html Essay: Scientology in the year 2039]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2040
| Arctic summers ice-free
| [https://www.livescience.com/9419-arctic-summer-ice-free-2040.html Arctic Summer Could be Ice-Free by 2040]
|
|-
| Nanotechnology makes humans immortal
| [https://www.computerworld.com/article/2528330/app-development/nanotech-could-make-humans-immortal-by-2040--futurist-says.html Nanotech could make humans immortal by 2040, futurist says]
|
|-
| 2041
| Social Security trust fund exhausted
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}}
|
|-
| 2043
| World population passes 9 Billion
| {{w|Population growth}}
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2044
| Mankind genetically engineered to be happy
| Premise of the movie [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1363468/ Zenith] - further details are in the [https://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/content_display/esearch/e3i25130cd57f1590bda4527c098ac85b01 film review for Zenith.]
|
|-
| Childhood obesity reaches 100%
| [https://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?storyid=11414 100-Percent Childhood Obesity Predicted by 2044]
|
|-
| 2045
| Humans and machines merge
| {{w|Ray Kurzweil}} predicts of a 'singularity' which will lead to a race of super intelligent beings.
|
|-
| 2046
| World's natural resources depleted
| [https://raphaelvanlaer.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/peak-uncertainty-when-will-we-run-out-of-fossil-fuels/ Peak uncertainty, when will we run out of fossil fuels?]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2047
| World ruled by banks and corporations
| [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Schlock-2047-RM-Krakoff-ebook/dp/B0039IT37Q Future Schlock - the story of a world turned upside down in 2047]
|
|-
| Tobacco industry fails
| [https://www.news.wisc.edu/16857 Experts: Big Tobacco dead by 2047, possibly sooner]
|
|-
| US begins using autonomous attack drones
| [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/aug/22/us-air-force-drones-pilots-afghanistan US Air Force prepares drones to end era of fighter pilots]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2048
| Salt-water fish extinct from overfishing
| WWF report on [https://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/blue_planet/problems/problems_fishing/ unsustainable fishing.]
|
|-
| Unisex bathing suits cover body from shoulder to ankle
| [https://future.wikia.com/wiki/RyansWorld:_Bathing_Suits_of_the_Future RyansWorld: Bathing Suits of the Future]
|
|-
| Entire US population overweight
| [https://web.archive.org/web/20090321075605/https://thestatsblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/scientists-say-thin-people-face-extinction-in-united-states-everyone-will-be-overweight-by-2048-%E2%80%93-and-less-smart Scientists Say Thin People Face Extinction in United States: Everyone Will Be Overweight by 2048 – And Less Smart (archive)]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2049
| $1,000 computer exceeds computational ability of humanity
| [https://www.americanbar.org/content/newsletter/publications/technology_e_report_home/2007_may_technotes.html TechNotes: Trends in Technology]
|
|-
| Singularity occurs
| [https://www.prismdecision.com/the-singularity-is-near The Singularity Is Near]
|
|-
| Fishing industry collapses
| This tends to happen when your food-stock is extinct{{citation needed}} - see WWF report on [https://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/blue_planet/problems/problems_fishing/ unsustainable fishing.]
|
|-
| rowspan="5"| 2050
| 80% of Earth's population lives in urban centers
| [https://infochangeindia.org/population/books-a-reports/80-of-world-population-will-soon-be-in-urban-areas.html 80% of world population will soon be in urban areas]
|
|-
| China controls space
| [https://books.google.com/books?id=op851Uf99LQC&dq=China+controls+space+2050&source=gbs_navlinks_s Space Science & Technology in China: A Roadmap to 2050]
|
|-
| Sex with robots possible
| [https://www.livescience.com/1951-forecast-sex-marriage-robots-2050.html Forecast: Sex and Marriage with Robots by 2050]
|
|-
| Cars banned from European cities
| [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8411336/EU-to-ban-cars-from-cities-by-2050.html EU to ban cars from cities by 2050]
|
|-
| One million species extinct from climate change
| [https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/01/0107_040107_extinction.html By 2050 Warming to Doom Million Species, Study Says]
|
|-
| 2051
| Atmosphere escapes into space
| [https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-outdoor-photos/255705-have-you-ever-seen-fallstreak-hole.html Conspiracy theory] relating to {{w|Fallstreak hole}} or hole punch clouds.
|
|-
| 2052
| Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security spending exceed total US revenue
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}}
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2053
| US budget balanced
| [https://crfb.org/blogs/omb-releases-long-term-projections-fy2015-budget-proposal OMB releases long-term projections for the FY2015 budget proposal]
|
|-
| Majority of Americans in prison
| [https://articles.philly.com/1992-06-14/news/26032105_1_prison-officials-prison-time-prison-commissioners 'Beyond Bricks And Bars' As Jails Overflow, The Lock-'em-up Credo Is Drawing Unlikely Criticism - From Prison Officials Themselves]
|
|-
| Cars driven by dogs
|
| This has [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWAK0J8Uhzk already occurred] in 2012! However, it is not as widespread as the prediction may be implying.
|-
| 2054
| Hunger becomes unimaginable global problem
| [https://www.albionmonitor.com/0403a/earth2054.html Hunger Could Be 'Unimaginable' Global Problem By 2054]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2055
| Atmospheric CO2 doubled
| [https://cmi.princeton.edu/wedges/flash_intro.php Carbon Mitigation Initiative: Stabilization Wedges]
|
|-
| Oil runs out
| [https://raphaelvanlaer.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/peak-uncertainty-when-will-we-run-out-of-fossil-fuels/ Peak uncertainty, when will we run out of fossil fuels?]
|
|-
| Copper, tin, lead, gold, and nickel all exhausted
| [https://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/environment/5-valuable-metals-that-could-vanish-by-2055 5 Valuable Metals That Could Vanish by 2055]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2056
| RFID-tagged driverless cars
| [https://www.zdnet.com/article/rfid-tagged-driverless-cars-on-roads-by-2056/ RFID-tagged driverless cars on roads by 2056]
|
|-
| Robots given same rights as humans
| [https://www.cc.gatech.edu/news/robots-given-same-rights-humans-2056 Robots Given Same Rights As Humans By 2056]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2057
| 150 Japanese settlers on Mars
| [https://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/9011051292/will-japan-colonize-mars Will Japan colonize Mars?]
|
|-
| Colorado River runs dry
| [https://news.agu.org/press-release/colorado-river-reservoirs-could-bottom-out-from-warming-business-as-usual/ Colorado River Reservoirs Could Bottom Out From Warming]
|
|-
| 2058
| Smoking ends in New Zealand
| [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10698966 Smoking to die out in NZ by 2058]
|
|-
| 2059
| Humans have domesticated robots
| [https://diehardempiricist.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/6-may-2011-virtual-necking-demography.html Virtual necking, demography, and robots]
|
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2060
| Human race lives in peace
| [https://www.arasfoundation.org/vision.html ARAS vision/mission]
|
|-
| Extreme droughts across much of Earth
| [https://wdas.cosmosmagazine.com/news/extreme-drought-across-most-earth-30-years/ Extreme drought across most of Earth by 2060]
|
|-
| Global temperature rise reaches 4 °C
| {{w|Avoiding dangerous climate change}}
|
|-
| Oil runs out again
| [https://business.financialpost.com/2011/04/01/oil-may-run-out-by-2060-hsbc/?__lsa=98a7-5c61 Oil may run out by 2060: HSBC]
|
|-
| 2061
| Halley's comet returns
| Halley's comet returns to the inner solar system (the vicinity of earth and the sun) every 75.3 years. The last time it was near earth was in 1985-1986. When it next returns, its closest approach to the sun will occur on [https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi 28 July 2061.]
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2062
| Uganda hosts World Cup
| [https://shillingscents.blogspot.co.nz/2010/07/uganda-to-host-world-cup-in-2062.html Uganda to host world cup in 2062]
|
|-
| The Jetsons
| {{w|The Jetsons}} was an animated science fiction sitcom that first aired in 1962. The show was set in the year 2062.
|
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2063
| First human clones reach adulthood
| [https://au.ign.com/articles/2004/04/28/the-fall-last-days-of-gaia-diary-2 The Fall - Last Days of Gaia Diary #2]
|
|-
| Population of Moon reaches 100,000
| Reading Eagle newspaper article from July 17, 1963 - [https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19630717&id=PhgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B50FAAAAIBAJ&pg=4055,6599008 Moon Population of 100,000 Is Predicted for 2063] and [https://www.paleofuture.com/blog/2008/3/14/air-force-predictions-for-2063-1963.html Air Force Predictions for 2063 (1963)]
|
|-
| Population of Mars reaches 10,000
| [https://www.paleofuture.com/blog/2008/3/14/air-force-predictions-for-2063-1963.html Air Force Predictions for 2063 (1963)]
|
|-
| Spacecraft exceed speed of light
| Physics as currently understood states that it is impossible to exceed the speed of light. A monumental shift in our physics would have had to have occurred for this to come true. This is a reference to the 8th Star Trek feature Film: "Star Trek: First Contact" where Zefram Cochrane performs the first human Warp Flight on April 5, 2063.
|
|-
| 2064
| Clean Air Act finishes reducing haze in national parks to natural levels
| [https://www.cleanhouston.org/air/features/hazyfuture.htm State plan guarantees a hazy future for Texas’ wilderness areas]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2065
| Last coral reefs die out
| From an [https://www.edgeofexistence.org/coral_reef_conservation/coral_reef_video.php article about a video called Reefs on the Edge] set in 2065 where a 15-year-old girl tells her grandfather's stories of coral reefs, and their demise.
|
|-
| Chernobyl cleanup complete
| [https://rt.com/politics/chernobyl-clean-in-55-years-time/ Chernobyl clean in 55 years time?]
|
|-
| 2066
| Cyprus achieves its goal
| This is from some [https://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus33608-110.html#p665612 forum posts on the decendants of Cypriots] that lends support to the autonomy of Cyprus from Greek or Turkey.
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2067
| Americans live in domed cities and watch 3D TV
| The article at [https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/ncm/index.php/2013/11/15/artifact-of-the-month-slide-rule-1916/ Artifact of the Month: Slide rule, 1916] includes information from the International Slide Rule Museum that "in 1967, Keuffel & Esser Co. commissioned a study of the future, predicting that Americans in 2067 would live in domed cities and watch 3D television."
|
|-
| Redheads go extinct
| [https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/redhead-extinction.htm Are redheads going extinct?]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2068
| Ozone hole over Antarctic finishes recovering
| [https://www.theozonehole.com/recovery.htm NASA Study Finds Clock Ticking Slower On Ozone Hole Recovery]
|
|-
| Lord Jesus rules the Earth from Throne in Jerusalem.
| [https://myth-one.com/chapter_8.htm The Resurrections -- What Really Happens]
|
|-
| Entire world population gay due to chemicals in the water
| [https://thedailybanter.com/2013/01/alex-jones-the-government-is-trying-to-make-more-gay-people/ Alex Jones talks about chemicals that make people gay]
|
|-
| 2069
| Public masturbation legalized
| [https://uncyclopedia.com/wiki/UnNews:It's_still_not_okay_to_Pull_Your_Penis_out_in_Public It's still not okay to Pull Your Penis out in Public]
|
|-
| rowspan="3"| 2070
| World population peaks
| [https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1108-global-population-to-peak-in-2070.html Global population to peak in 2070]
|
|-
| City-scale flooding disasters
| [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/3317033/City-scale-flooding-disasters-predicted-by-2070.html City-scale flooding disasters predicted by 2070]
|
|-
| 60% of world's energy comes from renewable sources
| [https://www.ssisolarenergy.com/solar-alternative-energy/ What Is Alternative Energy All About?]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2071
| Europe's temperatures rise by 3 °C
| [https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/en/topics/climate-energy/climate-change-adaptation/adaptation-tools/project-catalog/peseta-projection-of-economic-impacts-of-climate Projection of Economic impacts of climate change in Sectors of the European Union based on bottom-up Analysis]
|
|-
| World summer temperatures rise by 5 °C
| [https://www.climateadaptation.eu/denmark/climate-change/ See "Air temperature changes in the 21st century"]
|
|-
| 2072
| US retirement age is set to 75
| [https://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/articles/2012/06/11/how-high-will-the-retirement-age-go Up to 70-80 years]
|
|-
| 2073
| Oceans do not rise one foot
| [https://www.skepticalscience.com/sea-level-rise-predictions.htm More like 2 feet]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2074
| Number of 100-year-olds reaches one million
| [https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8848188.html UK to have 1 million centenarians by 2074]
|
|-
| Supertyphoons hit Japan
| [https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2009/09/08/national/super-typhoons-in-store-as-seas-warm/ Super typhoons in store as seas warm]
|
|-
| 2075
| US retirement age set to 69
| [https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Latest-News-Wires/2010/1112/Retirement-age-at-69-Deficit-plan-hits-Social-Security Retirement age at 69? Deficit plan hits Social Security]
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2076
| Average scientific paper has more than 24 authors
| [https://doclib.uhasselt.be/dspace/bitstream/1942/871/1/yitzhaki373.PDF Multiple Authorship in Biochemistry and Other Fields] (PDF)
|
|-
| Social Security trust fund exhausted
| {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}}
|
|-
| 2078
| Newspapers become obsolete and die out
| The same prediction was made for 2017 and 2022. Even when most prognosticators agree that something will happen, there can still be much disagreement about ''when'' it will happen.
|
|-
| rowspan="4"| 2079
| US debt reaches 716% of GDP
| {{w|US Debt}}
|
|-
| Lodgepole pines disappear from Northwest
| [https://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2011/feb/climate-change-causing-demise-lodgepole-pine-western-north-america Climate change causing demise of lodgepole pine in western North America]
|
|-
| Floods commonplace
| [https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090108101627.htm Floods To Become Commonplace By 2080]
|
|-
| Religion marginalized
| https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11347073
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2080
| Federal spending reaches 70% of GDP
| [https://crfb.org/sites/default/files/our_debt_problems_are_far_from_solved_updated_2.pdf Our debt problems are far from solved] (PDF)
|
|-
| UK population doubles
| [https://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/69603-britains-population-hit-110-million.html Britain's population to hit 110 million]
|
|-
| 2082
| World population declines to one billion
| [https://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html Population: The Elephant in the Room]
|
|-
| 2084
| Robot policemen introduced
| [https://www.thetechherald.com/articles/Robotic-cops-set-to-stamp-out-crime-by-2084 Robotic cops set to stamp out crime by 2084]
|
|-
| 2085
| US deficit reaches 62% of GDP
| [https://moneybob.com/2010/06/28/paul-krugman-throws-in-towel-says-were-headed-for-another-depression/ Paul Krugman Throws In Towel, Says We’re Headed For Another Depression]
|
|-
| 2088
| Japan becomes all-robot country
| [https://www.theretributioners.tv/erics-blog/2009/11/25/-japan-to-become-all-robot-country-by-2088.html Japan To Become All Robot Country By 2088]
|
|-
| 2089
| World halts fossil fuel use
| {{w|Fossil Fuels}}
|
|-
| rowspan="2"| 2090
| Global warming hits 7 °C
| [https://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/models-warn-of-7c-dangerous-climate-change-by-2090.html Models warn of 7C dangerous climate change by 2090]. Climate change, especially global warming, is a [[:Category:Climate change|recurring theme]] in xkcd.
|
|-
| Global warming hits 4 °C
| Summarized [https://www.global-warming-forecasts.com/2090-climate-change-global-warming-2090.php here]. In reference to Andy Bowers, “Analysis: Scientists say global warming could affect California's drinking water supply,” NPR All Things Considered, June 22, 2001
|
|-
| rowspan="11"| 2100
| Global warming around 5-7 °C
| [https://grist.org/article/bau-fd/ Hadley Center study warns of ‘catastrophic’ 5-7°C warming by 2100 on current emissions path]
|
|-
| Sea levels have risen by a meter or more
| {{w|Future sea level}}
|
|-
| Joshua trees nearly extinct
| [https://news.discovery.com/earth/joshua-trees-climate-change-110325.htm Joshua Trees Nearly Wiped Out by 2100?]
|
|-
| Earth's climate resembles that of the Cretaceous
| [https://www.pnas.org/content/107/2/576 Atmospheric CO2 concentrations during ancient greenhouse climates were similar to those predicted for A.D. 2100]
|
|-
| Germany tropical
| [https://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/climate-change-predictions-a-tropical-germany-by-2100-a-463378.html Climate Change Predictions: A Tropical Germany by 2100?]
|
|-
| Emperor penguins extinct
| [https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7851276.stm Emperor penguins face extinction]
|
|-
| Arctic permafrost thaws
| [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surface-permafrost-could/ Surface Permafrost Could Disappear by 2100]
|
|-
| Rising seas flood coastal cities
| [https://uanews.org/story/rising-seas-will-affect-major-us-coastal-cities-2100 Rising Seas Will Affect Major U.S. Coastal Cities by 2100]
|
|-
| Rain forests mostly gone due to climatic shifts
| [https://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/08/06/890970/-Massive-Loss-of-Rainforest-Species-by-2100-eKos-Earthship-Friday Massive Loss of Rainforest Species by 2100]
|
|-
| All coral reefs gone
| [https://planetsave.com/2010/10/15/coral-reefs-gone-by-2100/ Coral Reefs Gone by 2100?]
|
|-
| Gillette introduces 14-bladed razor
| Each iteration of the Gillette line of safety razors has one more blade than the previous one. MadTV has also [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FAP8o5ZEo0 parodied] this. Over five years before MadTV did so, the Australian comedy group the D-Generation parodied the first two-bladed razor as the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleuLyCUx28 Gillette 3000] with 16 blades.
|
|-
| 2101
| WAR WAS BEGINNING
| References {{w|Zero Wing}}, a 1989 Japanese computer game set in 2101, famous for poorly translated English and the source for "{{w|All your base are belong to us}}". See [[286: All Your Base]]
|
|}

==Transcript==

:<big>'''THE FUTURE'''</big>
:'''According to Google search results'''
:Events for each year determined by the first page of Google search results for the phrases:
:"By <year>" "In year"
:"By the year <year>" "In the year <year>"
:"Will * by the year <year>" "Will * in the year <year>"
:"In <year>, * will" "By <year>, * will"
:
:;2012
::World population reaches 7 billion
::Flying cars reach market
::Canada cuts greenhouse emissions to 6% below 1990 levels as per Kyoto
::Apocalypse occurs
:;2013
::National debt paid off through President Clinton's plans
::Microchipping of all Americans begins
::Homelessness ended in Massachusetts
::Health care reform law repealed
:;2014
::US leaves Afghanistan
::GNU/Linux becomes dominant OS
:;2015
::New Horizons reaches Pluto
::Health care law causes hyperinflation
::192 UN member nations achieve millennium development goals:
::*Extreme poverty and hunger eradicated
::*Universal primary education implemented
::*Women empowered, gender equality reached
::*Environmental stability ensured
:;2016
::Baby boomers begin turning 65
::Android takes 38% of the smartphone market
::Android takes 45% of the smartphone market
::Windows Phone overtakes iOS in smartphones
:;2017
::China completes unmanned Lunar sample-return mission
::Social Security stops running surplus
::US budget balanced
::Newspapers become obsolete and die out
::Cosmetic surgery doubles
:;2018
::Social Security stops running surplus
::Jesus returns to Earth
:;2019
::Social Security stops running surplus
::Every baby has genes mapped at birth
:;2020
::Solar power becomes cheaper than fossil fuels
::Keyboards and mice become obsolete
::New Tappan Zee bridge constructed
:;2021
::US debt reaches 97% of GDP
::US unemployment falls to 2.8%
::Restored caliphate unifies Middle East
::Lake Mead evaporates
:;2022
::Kilimanjaro snow-free
::HTML 5 finished
::Newspapers become obsolete and die out
:;2023
::Jesus returns to Earth (again)
::US debt passes 100% of GDP
::All unprotected ancient forests gone from Pacific Northwest
:;2024
::Atlantis begins to reappear
::Orangutans extinct in wild
::China lands men and women on the moon
::NASA sets up permanent moon base
::Female professionals pass males in pay
:;2025
::World population reaches 8 billion
::Two billion people face water shortages
::62 MPG cars introduced
::US power fades
:;2026
::Atlantis emerges completely
::Rock Bands die out
::US debt paid off
::Car accidents cease
::West coast falls into ocean
:;2027
::Japan introduces new fastest maglev train
::Lyndon Larouche-planned Mars colony established
::Social Security stops running surplus
:;2028
::Tobacco outlawed
::40% of coral reefs gone
::US debt paid off
::Social Security stops running surplus
:;2029
::Social Security trust fund exhausted
::Computers pass the Turing Test
::Aging reversed
::Wikipedia reaches 30 million articles
:;2030
::Half of Amazon rain forest lost to logging
::Cancer deaths double from 2008 levels
::Arctic ice-free in summer
:;2031
::Computers controlled by thought
::Realtors replaced by technology
::Social Security trust fund exhausted
:;2032
::"Big One" hits San Francisco
::US elects first married lesbian president
::Entire world converted to Christianity
:;2033
::Kilimanjaro ice disappears
::India becomes superpower
::Europe reaches Mars
:;2034
::US diabetes cases double, treatment costs triple
::US builds autonomous robot army
:;2035
::80% of America's energy comes from renewable sources
::Himalayan glaciers down 80% in size
::Arctic sea lane opens
:;2036
::80% of US has access to high-speed rail
::Asteroid Apophis hits/misses Earth
:;2037
::Arctic ice-free in September
::Social Security trust fund exhausted
:;2038
::32-bit timestamps role over, causing Y2K-level chaos
::"Big One" hits California
:;2039
::US population hits 400 million
::Severe heat waves become commonplace
::Scientology becomes majority religion in US
:;2040
::Arctic summers ice-free
::Nanotechnology makes humans immortal
:;2041
::Social Security trust fund exhausted
:;2042
:;2043
::World population passes 9 billion
:;2044
::Mankind genetically engineered to be happy
::Childhood obesity reaches 100%
:;2045
::Humans and machines merge
:;2046
::World's natural resources depleted
:;2047
::World ruled by banks and corporations
::Tobacco industry fails
::US begins using autonomous attack drones
:;2048
::Salt-water fish extinct from overfishing
::Unisex bathing suits cover body from shoulder to ankle
::Entire US population overweight
:;2049
::$1.000 computer exceeds computational ability of humanity
::Singularity occurs
::Fishing industry collapses
:;2050
::80% of Earth's population lives in urban centers
::China controls space
::Sex with robots possible
::Cars banned from European cities
::One million species extinct from climate change
:;2051
::Atmosphere escapes into space
:;2052
::Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security spending exceed total US revenue
:;2053
::US budget balanced
::Majority of Americans in prison
::Cars driven by dogs
:;2054
::Hunger becomes unimaginable global problem
:;2055
::Atmospheric CO2 doubled
::Oil runs out
::Copper, tin, lead, gold, and nickel all exhausted
:;2056
::RFID-tagged driverless cars
::Robots given same rights as humans
:;2057
::150 Japanese settlers on Mars
::Colorado River runs dry
:;2058
::Smoking ends in New Zealand
:;2059
::Humans have domesticated robots
:;2060
::Human race lives in peace
::Extreme droughts across much of Earth
::Global temperature rise reaches 4°C
::Oil runs out again
:;2061
::Halley's comet returns
:;2062
::Uganda hosts World Cup
::The Jetsons
:;2063
::First human clones reach adulthood
::Population of Moon reaches 100,000
::Population of Mars reaches 10,000
::Spacecraft exceed speed of light
:;2064
::Clean Air Act finishes reducing haze in national parks to natural levels
:;2065
::Last coral reefs die out
::Chernobyl cleanup complete
:;2066
::Cyprus achieves its goal
:;2067
::Americans live in domed cities and watch 3D TV
::Redheads go extinct
:;2068
::Ozone hole over Antarctic finishes recovering
::Lord Jesus rules the Earth from Throne in Jerusalem.
::Entire world population gay due to chemicals in the water
:;2069
::Public masturbation legalized
:;2070
::World population peaks
::City-scale flooding disasters
::60% of world's energy comes from renewable sources
:;2071
::Europe's temperatures rise by 3°C
::World summer temperatures rise by 5°C
:;2072
::US retirement age is set to 75
:;2073
::Oceans do not rise one foot
:;2074
::Number of 100-year-olds reaches one million
::Supertyphoons hit Japan
:;2075
::US retirement age set to 69
:;2076
::Average scientific paper has more than 24 authors
::Social Security trust fund exhausted
:;2077
:;2078
::Newspapers become obsolete and die out
:;2079
::US debt reaches 716% of GDP
::Lodgepole pines disappear from Northwest
::Floods commonplace
::Religion marginalized
:;2080
::Federal spending reaches 70% of GDP
::UK population doubles
:;2081
:;2082
::World population declines to one billion
:;2083
:;2084
::Robot policemen introduced
:;2085
::US deficit reaches 62% of GDP
:;2086
:;2087
:;2088
::Japan becomes all-robot country
:;2089
::World halts fossil fuel use
:;2090
::Global warming hits 7°C
::Global warming hits 4°C
:;2091
:;2092
:;2093
:;2094
:;2095
:;2096
:;2097
:;2098
:;2099
:;2100
::Global warming around 5-7°C
::Sea levels have risen by a meter or more
::Joshua trees nearly extinct
::Earth's climate resembles that of the Cretaceous
::Germany tropical
::Emperor penguins extinct
::Arctic permafrost thaws
::Rising seas flood coastal cities
::Rain forests mostly gone due to climatic shifts
::All coral reefs gone
::Gillette introduces 14-bladed razor
:;2101
::WAR WAS BEGINNING

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Timelines]]
[[Category:Google Search]]
[[Category:Earthquakes]]
[[Category:Climate change]]
[[Category:Singularity]]
[[Category:Renewable energy]]
[[Category:Smartphones]]
[[Category:Wikipedia]]

2982: Water Filtration

2024-09-07T09:41:53Z

172.68.205.164: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2982
| date = September 6, 2024
| title = Water Filtration
| image = water_filtration_2x.png
| imagesize = 593x467px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = You'd think the most expensive part would be the quark-gluon plasma chamber, but it's actually usually the tube to the top of the atmosphere to carry the cosmic rays down.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by WATER. JUST PLAIN WATER. NOTHING DONE TO IT, JUST PLAIN WATER. POSSIBLY DRINKABLE. - Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic seems to be a diagram of how well water is purified, a common procedure done to make said water safe to drink. However, this well water is "purified" through a series of increasingly unnecessary, expensive, and possibly hazardous steps.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Step
!Real?
!Explanation
|-
|Water softener
|{{Yes|Real}}
|{{w|Water softening}} is the removal of calcium, magnesium, and certain other metal cations in hard water. The resulting soft water requires less soap for the same cleaning effort, as soap is not wasted bonding with calcium ions. Soft water also extends the lifetime of plumbing by reducing or eliminating scale build-up in pipes and fittings. The comic shows the water being passed through some granulated material; presumably, {{w|ion-exchange resins}} are being used to treat the water.
|-
|Reverse osmosis
|{{Yes|Real}}
|{{w|Reverse osmosis}} is one of the main steps used in modern water-purification systems. It relies on using osmotic membranes and high pressures to separate water molecules from dissolved solutes and biological substances.
|-
|Ultraviolet Sterilization
|{{Yes|Real}}
|{{w|Ultraviolet germicidal irradiation|Ultraviolet sterilization}} uses UV lamps at short wavelengths to kill micro-organisms in the water.
|-
|Autoclave
|{{No|Fake}}
|{{w|Autoclaves}} are devices that sterilize items with high temperatures and pressures. While they are commonly used in hospital and laboratory settings to sterilize equipment, it is not normally used to purify water, as it would generate steam by the end of it. Furthermore, it would be extremely energy-intensive to convert the large volumes of water required for human consumption to steam. However, by the rest of this water purification setup, this much energy is barely anything in comparison.
|-
|Condenser
|{{No|Fake}}
|This isn't a purification step, but rather condenses the steam generated by the autoclave back into water.
|-
|Regular osmosis
|{{No|Fake}}
|Regular osmosis is the reverse of the previous Reverse Osmosis step. Oddly enough, this wouldn't directly contaminate the water, since the water is extremely pure as of this moment. Instead this step would simply remove water from the main stream, leaving the filtrate unchanged.
|-
|X-Ray Sterilization
|{{No|Fake}}
|While {{w|Sterilization_(microbiology)#Non-ionizing_radiation_sterilization|X-ray Sterilization}} is used to sterilize equipment, it is not normally used for water.
|-
|Carbon Filter
|{{No|Fake}}
|The water is passed through some volume of carbon. A riff on activated carbon filters, which are used in water filtration (seen later in the process).
|-
|Neutron Source
|{{No|Fake}}
|A {{w|neutron source}} generates high-energy neutrons. High-energy neutrons are highly penetrating and will cause ionization events to occur due to collision with atoms in the water. This can potentially make the water more radioactive due to the generation of radioactive isotopes.
|-
|Activated Carbon Filter
|{{Yes|Real}}
|{{w|Activated carbon}} is a form of carbon commonly used to filter contaminants from water and air, as it has a large surface area available to adsorb impurities on its surface. While this isn't a strange step to see in a water purification process, Randall makes a pun here with its proximity to the neutron source - the carbon has been '{{w|Neutron activation|activated}}' by the neutron source, and is currently radioactive. Water filtered through this may pick up radioactive isotopes from the filter.
|-
|Gamma Ray Sterilization
|{{No|Fake}}
|Similar to x-ray sterilization, this step uses {{w|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology)#Ionizing_radiation_sterilization|gamma rays}} to sterilize the water. Gamma rays can potentially irradiate the water through photodisintegration if their energy is higher than the binding energy of oxygen.
|-
|Cosmic Ray Sterilization
|{{No|Fake}}
|Similar to the previous step, but this time using high energy {{w|cosmic rays}} to do so. This would be incredibly impractical, as cosmic rays are generally blocked by the atmosphere at high altitudes (as stated in the title text). Furthermore, their extremely high energy (shown to be in the exa-electron volt (10^18 eV) range) would cause multiple high-energy particles to be created on impact with the water molecules, irradiating the water significantly.
|-
|Electrolysis
|{{No|Fake}}
|The water is broken down into hydrogen and oxygen gas using an electric current. Assuming the gas outputs of this process are pure hydrogen and oxygen gas, this *would* be an extremely effective sterilization tactic, seeing as no known organism or water pollutant is entirely composed out of hydrogen or oxygen gas. Along with the next step, this step may be a misguided attempt to "take the water apart and clean each part individually.". The hydrogen is sent to the ionizer, while the oxygen is sent to the oxygen spallation step.
|-
|Oxygen Spallation
|{{No|Fake}}
|The oxygen is apparently broken down back into hydrogen via a fictional form of {{w|Cosmic_ray_spallation|spallation}}. While spallation can form lighter nuclei from heavier ones, there is no known process to convert oxygen back down to hydrogen. It is unclear what happens to the neutrons present in the oxygen nuclei - whether they are removed, used to create hydrogen isotopes or allowed to decay into protons and electrons (the components of yet more hydrogen, when properly reintroduced). The hydrogen formed here is merged with the rest of the hydrogen before being sent to the ionizer.
|-
|Ionizer
|{{No|Fake}}
|The hydrogen outputted by the previous step is made into a plasma with free electrons and protons.
|-
|Quark-Gluon Plasma Chamber
|{{No|Fake}}
|The plasma outputted from the previous step is further energized into a {{w|Quark–gluon plasma}}, such as the one found just after the Big Bang. This follows the theme of the previous steps, which all serve to break the water down into their elementary components. The incredible energies involved in doing so are unachievable by current technologies (current particle accelerators can form such a plasma for very short periods of time and involve a very small amount of matter), and serve to highlight the impracticality of this setup (alluded to in the title text). The energies would also result in formation of lepton pairs from energy, which is presumably where the electrons from the previous step ended up.
|-
|Hydrogenation
|{{No|Fake}}
|This process converts the quark-gluon plasma outputted in the previous step into elemental hydrogen, reversing the previous two steps. Presumably, this is done via {{w|hadronization}} and {{w|recombination}}, however it is unclear how the {{w|baryon asymmetry}} needed to generate matter and not anti-matter is developed. In real life, {{w|hydrogenation}} is the process of adding hydrogen to unsaturated hydrocarbons. The resulting hydrogen is split into 2 streams leading into the Nucleosynthesis and Reverse Electrolysis steps.
|-
|Nucleosynthesis
|{{No|Fake}}
|Part of the hydrogen produced in the previous step is converted into oxygen via 2 sub-processes. The hydrogen is first converted into helium and carbon, through a combination of the {{w|proton-proton chain}} and the {{w|CNO cycle}} as per the labels on the step. This helium and carbon are then converted into oxygen through the {{w|alpha process}}. This step may also involve the {{w|triple-alpha process}}, seeing that the alpha process is typically only applicable to converting carbon into heavier elements, owning to the lack of a stable element with eight nucleons. These steps normally occur in the cores of massive stars. It is not known how the oxygen is filtered from the extremely hot plasma of fusion products.
|-
|Reverse Electrolysis
|{{No|Fake}}
|This step is essentially a fuel cell, utilizing an electrochemical reaction to convert hydrogen and oxygen back into water and electricity.
|-
|Adding Well Water
|{{No|Fake}}
|A second pipe is linked to the first that simply feeds untreated well water into the pipes, undoing the entire process. Even if the well water is only a small portion of the faucet water, its presence has now contaminated the now incredibly pure water, making it potentially unsafe to drink if the original well water was contaminated with toxins or pathogens. This act of putting well water into the faucet after treating it may be a riff on the cultural interest in "spring water" or "pure glacial water" that is said to have additional minerals or beneficial properties but is oftentimes not meaningfully distinct from properly treated tap water.

Alternatively, it may be that the level of purity achieved by this setup is so overkill, and the cost per liter processed so high, that it's simply more efficient to treat just enough of the water to dilute the rest of the water to acceptable levels of contaminants. For example, it's common to use a partial bypass to supply water to the shower, since shower water does not need to be potable.
|}

The title text briefly covers the cost implications of the components. Various 'real' filter elements will either have material or energy costs (if not both), in operation or to replenish their effectiveness, and the high energy input needed to disassociate hadrons into raw quark–gluon plasma (at bulk levels) would seem to require the most in terms of running the equipment. But it is pointed out that to ''ensure'' enough cosmic rays reach that particular phase of sterilization, there would have to be a pipe (not shown) leading out to the edge of the atmosphere to optimistically carry down such particles (due to also containing ''no'' air, i.e. keeping it out to negate the normal {{w|Air shower (physics)|shielding and dissipating effect}} of the atmosphere).

Whether a one-off-cost or needing regular replacement, the setting up of such a tubular structure (a vertical air-proof pipe perhaps somewhere between 100 and 10,000 kilometres high) would be technically challenging and has not ever been actually accomplished. The conditions for a quark–gluon plasma, albeit in limited quantities, at least have been fulfilled at {{w|CERN}} (with its 27 kilometer airless pipe that goes round within a vast circular tunnel).

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1519: Venus

2024-09-01T17:58:30Z

172.68.205.164: "unsigned"ed and shuffled in a more natural chronological position for the discussion of the point.

The "Runaway Greenhouse Effect" refers to the continuing increase of a planet's average temperature due to an increase of gases that reflect heat from the planet back toward its surface; Venus is an example of this to the extent that its temperature is not tolerable to Earth-like organisms.

:Considering that our probes are only able to work for few hours on the surface, emphasizing "Earth-like" sounds like understatement. The temperature is not the most dangerous property of Venus, though. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 01:19, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

::True, and the fact that the temperature is hot enough to melt lead, and it's not the worst thing there, is one of the many reasons why Venus is a terrible vacation spot. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.155|108.162.250.155]] 01:04, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

:::Well, it might be nice to visit, even if you wouldn't want to stay there. Which sounds very much like many ''actual'' vacation spots... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73|172.70.85.73]] 20:13, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

The "Butterfly Effect" refers to the hypothesis that a small action (such as a butterfly flapping its wings) in a chaotic system such as a planet's weather, can have a large effect (such as causing a storm on the other side of the planet). [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 06:43, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

:...or flip a bit on your hard drive. But then again, that's what Emacs is for, isn't it? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.157|173.245.50.157]] 15:05, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

::[[378: Real Programmers|Good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly]]. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.137|108.162.222.137]] 04:22, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I added a link to Tulip Fever (and clarified the 'links' to the mistold history), which may or may not be 'inspiring' Miss's little tale, but certainly would be interesting if intended to be the so-called-historic basis in this retelling of facts. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.186|141.101.98.186]] 11:19, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Two of the false statements were referred to as "puns", but that's not how I understand the word pun, so I changed the texts. --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 13:39, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Any suggestions about where the phrase "I ride the skies atop a screaming bird of ..." comes from? --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 13:40, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
:Sounds like a lyrical/poetic reference.
:Maybe we can ask Norm DeMoura? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.166|108.162.221.166]] 22:31, 2 May 2015 (UTC)
::It may be a reference to the tale [http://www.mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/127.htm The Bird of Truth] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.232|108.162.229.232]] 23:14, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
:I think [[Randall]] just squeezed it in for extra humor. {unsigned ip|172.71.30.28|17:28, 1 September 2024}}

The student is [[Hair Bun Girl]], as Hair Bun Girl is any female that has a hair bun. It says on her page that "She is distinguished by her hair that is set up in a bun.", which is the only distinguishing feature seen here.--{{User:17jiangz1/signature|09:41, 03 May 2015}}
:Well I wrote that, when I created the category, and what I meant was that she is any woman. We do not call a child Cueball or Megan (even though they may be drawn this way. I will again delete this reference.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:22, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I move that the bottom section, "Trivia," may be transferred into the main body of text, or that it shall be erased altogether. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.70|108.162.215.70]] 07:34, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Talk:2602: Linguistics Degree

2024-08-31T17:38:46Z

172.68.205.164:

I think i messed up with the file upload- i was trying to help, sorry guys! [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 07:00, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
:I think I fixed it. We use the small version of the file, not the x2. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:47, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Not to be too nit-picky, but the legendary animal is a combination of jackrabbit and antelope, no jackal in it, therefore it’s jackelope. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.65|172.70.126.65]] 07:18, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
: Uh, no. It's "jackalope": Google is your friend. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.153|172.70.130.153]] 09:51, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
::Yes, I saw the wiki article. Either the person who coined the word was an idiot who thought it was spelled “antalope” or didn’t know how to make a portmanteau. Either way, it is NOT a portmanteau of jackrabbit and antelope, because that would be jackralope or jackelope. At best, you can call it a portmanteau of jackrabbit and a _misspelling_ of antelope.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.87|172.70.126.87]] 17:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
::: Excuse me? Are you in charge of "Jackalope" or Ponytail? ;) [[User:Lexi|Lexi]] ([[User talk:Lexi|talk]]) 20:36, 5 April 2022 (UTC) JACKrabbit + AnteLOPE = JACKALOPE . . . . (Was that so hard?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.153|172.70.130.153]] 10:57, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:::: Definitely jackalope in Texas, their native territory. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.170|172.69.69.170]] 01:41, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
:::: "Jacklope" Oh DEAR. You are so very and hilariously wrong on the Internet.

My immediate reaction to this was to see where ///bassoon.jackalope.slurp (What3words) took me. Nowhere - but suggested ///passion.jackpot.slurps is near Chausserais, 100 km ESE of Nantes in central France.[[User:Jmbryant|Jmbryant]] ([[User talk:Jmbryant|talk]]) 10:22, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
:That's nearer {{w|Dahu}}-country, though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.64|172.70.86.64]] 10:38, 5 April 2022 (UTC) (P.S. Not that this is even a valid example why, but I rather think What3words is a bad development that will do more harm than good in serious navigation/geolocating purposes. Just sayin' in passing.)

:In some languages, a bassoon is called ''fagotto'' i.e. faggot, which in English is an offensive word addressing a male homosexual person (Note: I'm describing the word, not discriminating against any people). The word ''jack'' also means a male person, and an antelope is '''horny'''. With ''slurp'', these three words happen to be kind of '''inappropriate''' or '''graphic''', if seen this way. Maybe? Thoughts? [[User:Yosei|Yosei]] ([[User talk:Yosei|talk]]) 05:02, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
::Long leap. Or easy leap, as pretty much every word of significance has been (mis)appropriated, and has variable connotations anyway (someone mentions Slurp's variable offensiveness, below). "Faggot" is as likely to be a kind of sausage (an actual sausage, though of course "sausage" has its own innuendo!) or an actual bundle of sticks, round these parts, though we probably do recognise it as (US movie?) slang, if spoken in the more obviously offensive context.
::Linking the woodwind ("erection-fart?") directly to ludeness is so easy. Perhaps also through onomatopeia? Or else "bassoons" is reminiscent of "bossoms". "Jack" might be "-the-lad", but no more sign of sexual-male than many other names (There's ''a'' John, naturally. Or the naming-of-parts via John-Thomas/Dick/Peter/”Hugh Jampton", etc?). And you missed in the jack''rabbit'' that rabbits themselves have a certain reputation, beyond munching on carrots. Or, the question is, did your 'uncle and antelope'? And, like many ungulents, I believe they like pronking!
::Low-hanging fruit (testicles?), I'd say. Not wishing to blow my own trumpet. (Well, I m not really supple enough to try!) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.125|162.158.159.125]] 09:09, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

::This use of '''faggot''' is American (and possibly other dialects). In the UK a faggot is a type of liver dumpling, or a wooden branch or a bundle of wooden branches - often intended as firewood.[[User:Jmbryant|Jmbryant]] ([[User talk:Jmbryant|talk]]) 08:50, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Could the random student in Ohio be a cousin of the random programmer in Nebraska? --[[User:Quazgar|Quazgar]] ([[User talk:Quazgar|talk]]) 11:53, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

There's a Linguistics Society of America, maybe they could coordinate the assignment of words to graduates. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 13:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
:In the US, yes. In most of the rest of the world follows ISO 1806. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.153|172.70.130.153]] 16:43, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
::ISO 1806 Determination of mesh breaking force of netting? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:55, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
::I'm sure it was a typo for ISO 24612 [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 12:44, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Cueball's objection to "slurp" is not explained; what's wrong with "slurp"? I think it's great word! (I wonder if trades are allowed...) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.146.81|172.68.146.81]] 21:31, 5 April 2022 (UTC) Corin
:You're right. The word ''slurp'' is just a word, value-neutral. What this word means can be seen variously, though. In some countries, slurping (e.g. noodle) is not only culturally acceptable but possibly seen positively, implying what they're eating is delicious. In some other countries, slurping may be a no-no, seen negatively. Some webmasters may not like the Yahoo Slurp bot, as it might misbehave. [[User:Yosei|Yosei]] ([[User talk:Yosei|talk]]) 05:02, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I wonder if those who graduated with honors are entrusted with more difficult words, like irregular verbs or ones with tricky homophones. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.41|172.70.38.41]] 01:21, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:[https://imgflip.com/i/16xi7j Or both..]? ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.177|172.70.85.177]] 02:37, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

My sister was wondering if the assignment is specific to English, or whether you own the word in every language where it's a, well, word. Like if you got "eleven", are you merely in charge of "the integer between ten and twelve [English]", or are you also the administrator of "lively, alive [Hungarian]"? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.41|172.70.38.41]] 18:25, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:Oh, no... I believe that the only way to get responsibility for the English word "eleven" is to do a ''mathematics'' degree, via the responsible governing body for assigning integers, fractions (vulgar or decimal*, including irrational) and various trans-finite notations. Although, only an infinitesimal number of numbers have been so assigned, so practically no-one else has noticed. Practically zero. Including the person who was actually assigned 'Zero' but was still suffering from a celebratory hangover at their graduation ceremony and apparently never realised.
:(* - For historical reasons, however, all your ''other'' base belong to Sega.)
:Due to an oversight, though, yes the person given "Eleven" has precedence over the Hungarian Linguist (who also has not realised... again due to a hangover). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.43|162.158.159.43]] 21:17, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
:My graduation was bi-lingual (English/Welsh) so, although I got "moron", I've never been quite sure if it was in the sense of "idiot" or "carrots". And actually, come to think of it, the Pro Vice Chancellor did inexplicably say "dirigible" at one point, so maybe it was neither and he just thought I was a moron. Or he fancied some carrots.
:Better start researching airships... [[User:Yorkshire Pudding|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding|talk]]) 14:26, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
:: Or pannas/parsnips (see Welsh Duolingo and FB Owen a'i pannas) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.170|172.69.69.170]] 01:38, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I want the word "the" --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.226|172.70.134.226]] 17:52, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

I want the word "word"! [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 23:58, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Sustainable sustainable sustainable sustainable "[[1007: Sustainable|sustainable]]"! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 17:38, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

== Explanation Tag ==
"Created by a JACKALOPE SLURPING UP A BASSOON, GRADUATED BACHELOR OF SCIENCE WITH A GUARDIANSHIP OF 'EXPLAIN'" This seems wrong, as the stewardships of words are gifted to recipients of Linguistics degrees, not Science degrees. --[[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 00:30, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

2973: Ferris Wheels

2024-08-16T20:42:21Z

172.68.205.164: /* Explanation */ Refactor the explanation.

{{comic
| number = 2973
| date = August 16, 2024
| title = Ferris Wheels
| image = ferris_wheels_2x.png
| imagesize = 624x280px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = They left the belt drive in place but switched which wheel was powered, so people could choose between a regular ride, a long ride, and a REALLY long ride.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BELT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic depicts an attempted to connect three {{w|Ferris wheel}}s using a belt drive. By connecting at different circumferences, the relative motion is geared up or down. If the belt that passes around the circumference of one wheel is connected around the hub of another, the latter will rotate (significantly) faster. In this case, that second wheel's circumference is in turn connected to a third wheel's hub for an even greater rotational velocity. Ferris wheels are not intended to be connected in this way.{{Citation needed}}

The caption suggests that the person who did this was fired for this ill-advised modification, which apparently used a normal and sedately-turning ride to create two increasingly violent versions of the ride where the passengers (in their gondalas) are flung around to various (possibly {{w|G-force#Human tolerance|quite hazardous}}) degrees.

The title text tells us that the belt was not removed, but instead they made the 'most extreme' wheel the powered one. Now it would be geared ''down'', at each step, making a for a possibly rather pleasant few minutes upon the right-hand wheel, but rendering the experiences of the riders of the other two rides far ''too'' slow and seemingly interminable.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Three Ferris wheels are shown side by side, with some people stood on the ground for scale.]
:[Each of the first two wheels have a belt connecting their circumference to the axel of the respective one to the right.]
:["Agitrons" indicate that the middle wheel is turning notably faster than the left wheel, with the gondalas seen to be rocking significantly at all points round the wheel.]
:[The spokes of the right wheel are completely replaced by "motion lines", indicating that the the right wheel is turning the fastest of all. All its gondalas are hanging outwards against centripetal force, interspersed with their own motion lines.]

:[Caption below the picture:] The county fair fired me for adding a belt drive to the Ferris wheels.{{comic discussion}}

2972: Helium Synthesis

2024-08-16T20:00:05Z

172.68.205.164: /* Explanation */ Production perhaps tends to imply manufacture, rather than abstraction/processing from the gas reserves that bear it. (Yes, synonymical usage abounds, including 'gas/oil production', but we can avoid it.)

{{comic
| number = 2972
| date = August 14, 2024
| title = Helium Synthesis
| image = helium_synthesis_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x312px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Our lawyers were worried because it turns out the company inherits its debt from the parent universe, but luckily cosmic inflation reduced it to nearly zero.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BIG BANG NUCLEOSYNTHESIZER WITH A VERY HIGH PITCHED VOICE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This comic explores the challenges of obtaining {{w|helium}}. [[Hairy]] is leading a company meeting with [[Megan]], [[Cueball]], and [[Hairbun]], who are discussing the recurring problem of {{w|helium shortage}}s, a real-world issue due to helium's limited availability on Earth. Helium is a non-renewable resource primarily extracted from {{w|natural gas}} deposits — the US is the biggest extractor — and its scarcity can affect industries such as medical imaging, semiconductor manufacturing, scientific research, and party balloon supplies.[https://www.marketplace.org/2023/01/19/heliums-been-rising-in-price-and-its-bringing-businesses-down/] (See also [[2766: Helium Reserve]].)

Hairbun suggests investigating the origin of helium. Cueball's research reveals that most helium in the universe came from {{w|Big Bang nucleosynthesis}}, which occurred shortly after the {{w|Big Bang}} when the first elements were formed. (However, 99% of the helium here on Earth has been produced from the slow {{w|radioactive decay}} of naturally occuring {{w|uranium-238}} and {{w|thorium-232}} — which in turn came from {{w|r-process}} {{w|Supernova nucleosynthesis|nucleosynthesis}} inside merging {{w|neutron star}}s;[https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/13873/] see [[2826: Gold]] — into {{w|alpha particles}} identical to temporarily ionized helium, with only the remaining one percent originating from the Big Bang.)

Hairy assigns the team to figure out how to recreate Big Bang nucleosynthesis, which is not actually possible for a contemporary business organization.{{cn}} Nonetheless, the team builds a machine capable of it. They are successful, presumably obliterating themselves and at least all the closest galaxies.

The final panels show the creation of a second Big Bang followed by the next 14 billion years of that new universe, culminating with the same characters in an identical meeting, presumably having arisen from the same series of post-Big Bang events as in the original universe. This suggests a {{w|cyclic universe}} in which events repeat themselves exactly (which {{w|chaos theory}} implies would be extremely unlikely.{{acn}}) They are once again facing the same predicament: helium shortages have become a problem, and they once more need a more reliable source. The implication is that this is a recurring cycle of creation and destruction, analogous to the {{w|Yuga_cycle|Cycle of Yugas}} (world ages) in Hinduism, but centered on the helium needs of a unnamed, resourceful company.

The title text is a wordplay on the two concepts of {{w|cosmic inflation}} and {{w|monetary inflation}}. In economics, monetary inflation is the rate at which the cost of things increases over time (one can also think of this as the value of money falling). If a debt is arranged on favorable terms, such that the interest on it turns out to be less than this rate, the value of that debt reduces over time. Cosmic inflation is a theory in cosmology that describes the rapid expansion of the universe just after the Big Bang. The joke imagines the original company as having incurred a significant debt (perhaps as a result of the costs of building the Big Bang machine), which has now been inherited by its subsidiary. Somehow, thanks to the effect of cosmic inflation, this debt was diluted (perhaps ''physically'' across the effectively infinite vastness of space), reducing it to nothing. (See also [[2688: Bubble Universes]].)

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Hairy sits on an office chair at the head of a conference table and has his hands on the table, with Cueball and Megan also at the table.]
:Hairy: These helium shortages every few years are such a pain.
:Hairy: Our company needs a reliable source of helium.

:[The same situation, but now Hairbun is also seen at the table on the left side of Cueball. Cueball holds a cellphone in his left hand, which Megan looks at.]
:Hairbun: Where does helium come from, anyway?
:Cueball: Hmm, apparently most of it is from "Big Bang nucleosynthesis"?
:Hairy: Well, let's figure out how to do that.

:[Hairy, Megan and Hairbun are working on a large machine labeled "Big Bang Nucleosynthesis," with Megan holding its wired control device in her left hand.]

:[Two panels depict another Big Bang, followed by various stages of cosmic development, including galaxies and planets forming, shown in white on a black background.]

:[The scene returns to the same conference room setup as before, with the characters in the same positions. Text at the top reads: "14 Billion Years Later."]
:Hairy: These helium shortages every few years are such a pain.
:Hairy: Our company needs a reliable source of helium.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics with inverted brightness]]
[[Category:Cosmology]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Recursion]]

1606: Five-Day Forecast

2024-08-15T19:30:31Z

172.68.205.164: Undo revision 348746 by 108.162.241.81 (talk) Unwanted changes.

{{comic
| number = 1606
| date = November 20, 2015
| title = Five-Day Forecast
| image = five_day_forecast.png
| titletext = You know what they say--if you don't like the weather here in the Solar System, just wait five billion years.
}}
A different user-made version for the picture using Celsius instead of Fahrenheit can be found here: [[:File:five_day_forecast_Celsius.png|Five day forecast in Celsius]].

==Explanation==
{{w|Weather forecasting}} is an extremely difficult task, even if it is only for five days. In numerical models, extremely small errors in initial values double roughly every five days for variables such as temperature and wind velocity. So most {{w|Meteorology#Meteorologists|meteorologists}} only provide us with a five-day forecast.

In this comic [[Randall]] takes this to the extreme by first showing a '''Five-Day Forecast''' and then progressing to five-month, year, million, billion and finally trillion-year forecast, {{tvtropes|WeirdWeather|leading to weather patterns that we don't usually see on a regular basis.}}

Since the first weather symbol is the same in all six rows, we must assume this indicates the weather today (and not tomorrow or in a trillion years). It is first in the second panel that we have made the first jump according to the label. Consequently, the last column gives the predictions for four days, four months, ..., four trillion years from today.

When moving past the five days, the forecast is just a qualified guess based on the time of year. In a month it is Christmas as shown in the second panel of the second row. And then it is winter with January and February so snow is likely, but certainly not something that happens on all days of a winter month.

Looking at the five-year forecast, guesses are made as to what the weather will be like at the same time of year. For these first three predictions the weather symbols are all of the same three types. Sun, clouds and some kind of {{w|precipitation}}, rain or snow. And the temperature range from 21 to 44 °F (-6.1 to 6.6 °C), winter temperature.

Then we go into the far future, jumping a million years from panel to panel. But still the weather symbols stay the same. However, in 3 million years time aliens (or advanced humans) attack with energy beams from something looking like {{w|flying saucers}}. They are gone a million years later. The temperature range is still the same (except that it rises to 52 °F or 11.1 °C, a possible reference to global warming) in one panel. But then while the attack is going on the temperature rises to 275 °F (135 °C).

Once we get to the billion-year mark it actually becomes more meaningful to try to predict the "weather". Because now we reach the times when the {{w|Sun}} begins to change. Although the Sun will continue to burn hydrogen for about 5 billion years yet (while in its {{w|Sun#Main sequence|main sequence|}}), it will still grow in diameter as it begins to exhaust its supply of fuel. The core will contract to increase the temperature, and the outer layer will then compensate by expanding slightly. This is what is indicated in panels two and three where the color of the Sun changes towards red as the surface becomes less hot as it expands away from the center of the Sun. The temperature will rise on Earth as indicated in the panels (105 °F = 40.5 °C and 371 °F = 188 °C). So in two billion years the temperature is hot enough that all the earth's oceans will have boiled away… Actually this will happen already in about [http://phys.org/news/2015-02-sun-wont-die-billion-years.html a billion years].

Then once there is {{w|Sun#After core hydrogen exhaustion|no longer enough hydrogen}} the Sun will truly expand into a {{w|red giant}}. This should not happen until five billion years from now,{{Citation needed}} but in the forecast it is indicated to happen already in three. Maybe this is Randall taking liberties to show what happens during this phase, which would not fit into a five-billion-years forecast. Alternatively it is just indicating how uncertain these kinds of forecasts are, or a statement that we may not know for certain that it will take five not three billion years.
Disregarding this, the fourth panel shows the temperature at Earth's position inside the red giant Sun. The color of the panel indicates that we are inside the Sun. The temperature is 71,488,106 degrees Fahrenheit (39,715,597 degrees Celsius). The current temperature of the center of the Sun is "only" 27 million degrees Fahrenheit (15 million degrees Celsius). And although that may rise by a factor of ten during {{w|Stellar nucleosynthesis|helium fusion}} then that will only be at the very core and not out in the solar atmosphere reaching out to Earth Here the temperature would only be of the order of thousands of Fahrenheit, since the Sun's outer temperature decreases as it increases its diameter. So this panel's temperature also makes little sense. It may involve some ambiguities regarding what the forecast means; the edge of the red giant Sun is predicted to be somewhere near the current orbit of Earth, but the position of the Earth could change. The most likely prediction at the moment is for Earth to move outward, but if the planet is engulfed by the Sun, it would spiral inward, and at some point fall apart. So in some sense "here" for the forecast could become a position deep inside the Sun, where core temperatures could reach 100 million Kelvin.

The red giant phase only lasts half a million years, so a billion years after the Sun has been a red giant its outer atmosphere will for sure have disappeared leaving only a {{w|white dwarf}} to cool down. Given Randall's version of this time schedule, then it will have had about a billion years to cool down, but would still likely be the brightest object in the sky as seen from where the Earth once was. It is not indicated in the last panel, where we just see other stars of the Galaxy. The temperature is down to that of the {{w|Cosmic microwave background|background radiation}}. Today this radiation has a temperature of 2.72548 kelvin = -270.4245 °C = -454.7641 °F. So this is a few degree F colder than what is shown in the comic which states the temperature is -452 °F = 4.26 kelvin. This higher temperature may have been chosen to reflect that even the star light from other stars would increase the actual temperature.

In the last panel with trillion years, we jump right past the Sun's Red Giant phase, to a panel looking much like the one after five billion years with only other stars. Over the next three trillion years the stars become fewer and fewer and dimmer and dimmer as they run out of fuel and fewer new stars form. After four trillion years the background temperature even decreases one degree to -453 °F as the universe keeps expanding and the wavelength of the radiation does the same, thus decreasing its temperature.

The title text is a play on comments referring to fast-changing weather on a more ordinary human timescale, such as Mark Twain's quip "If you don't like the weather in New England now, just wait a few minutes."

A ten days forecast was used in [[1245: 10-Day Forecast]]. In [[1379: 4.5 Degrees]] Randall looked at the weather over long periods of time as well.

==Transcript==
:[A grid with six rows of five columns, where each row is labeled to the left. For each of the 30 squares a temperature is given in Fahrenheit at the top left. The rest of the square represents the weather as in a weather forecast (or some other relevant items for the comic), mainly in bright colors. Below are the six labels given above each of their five weather symbols with temperature given below these symbols description.]

:'''Your 5-day forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:41°F
:[A grey cloud with six lines of blue raindrops below.]
:36°F
:[A grey cloud in front of a yellow sun.]
:40°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:44°F

:'''Your 5-month forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A green Christmas tree with red presents beneath it.]
:29°F
:[A grey cloud with four snowflakes below.]
:21°F
:[A grey cloud with four snowflakes below.]
:24°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:35°F

:'''Your 5-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:25°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:36°F
:[A grey cloud with six lines of blue raindrops below.]
:37°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:41°F

:'''Your 5-million-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:52°F
:[A grey cloud.]
:40°F
:[Two red flying saucers (with bright domes) are shooting energy beams downwards. One of the beams seems to impact with something at the bottom of the panel, which then explodes. Two plumes of smoke rises up from below, drifting to the right.]
:275°F
:[A grey cloud in front of a yellow sun.]
:40°F

:'''Your 5-billion-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A larger orange sun.]
:105°F
:[A very large red sun.]
:371°F
:[A pale yellow panel with no drawing.]
:71,488,106°F
:[A night sky with many bright stars.]
:-452°F

:'''Your 5-trillion-year forecast'''
:[A bright yellow sun.]
:38°F
:[A night sky with many bright stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with many stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with fewer not so bright stars.]
:-452°F
:[A night sky with few dim stars.]
:-453°F

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Weather]]
[[Category:Aliens]]

Template:List of comics

2024-08-15T19:29:49Z

172.68.205.164: Undo revision 348745 by 108.162.241.80 (talk) Hopefully not vandalism.

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Talk:2971: Celestial Event

2024-08-13T20:22:36Z

172.68.205.164:

Unfortunately, this calculation doesn't account for the eventual end of total solar eclipses due to the tidal recession of the moon. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.142|172.69.246.142]] 05:31, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

:This is a great comment! Very much like something Randall would have written for title text. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.49|172.71.146.49]] 05:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:: Agreed! Also, it seems like the article should have a footnote or separate section going full Randall, "Based only on the data given in this cartoon, what is the possible range of Randall Munroe's home location?" --[[User:AnnapolisKen|AnnapolisKen]] ([[User talk:AnnapolisKen|talk]]) 18:21, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Are all of these events really statistically independent or are e.g. active northern lights and cicada mergence more or less likely to happen at the same time of the year?

This comic was published the same night that saw both the Perseids meteor shower and an unusually strong northern lights. Strangely, the omission of meteor showers in Randall's account of Celestial Events suggests that this is a coincidence. [[User:Mumiemonstret|Mumiemonstret]] ([[User talk:Mumiemonstret|talk]]) 11:43, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

One eclipse every 350 years is not "1/350" - that would imply the eclipse lasted the whole year. The numerator unit should be a minute or so, vastly changing the result.
: Tru dat, as are the comments regarding changes over time in eclipse parameters and the effects of time approximations. However, if we let "4 minutes" be the mean time of totality for an eclipse, and insert that term (for the record, 7.6E-06) for "1" in "1/350", the equation's solution becomes 4E+14, orders of magnitude greater than the age of the universe and, IIRC, well into its projected "heat death". The joke appears to reside in the proximity of Randall's solution to the commonly-accepted age of the Earth, making the solution "just possible". More "accurate" solutions would not be funny, and we would not have seen this comic.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.227|162.158.41.227]] 17:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
::In the "1/350years", I took it to mean that the unitless "1" represented a day (within which an eclipse occurs, and across this period would also extend the various other conditions). By treating all other unit-laden values as correctly converted to the number in the term of days (and back-converted to the 'more convenient' billions of years for the result), it probably ...not that I did the mathematics to check this... comes out as Randall suggests.
::If, indeed, the length of an (average, as of Earth's current configuration) eclipse, and all other values were understood as proxies for the "number of eclipse-lengths" (except for the uncloudy sky fraction, which is always a unitless half through cancelling out) then you might end up with a result that's different. But the way to check this is to accept the answer (in billions of years) and all the others with time-lengths (respectively) and work out the rough united-length of the "1" by to identify what unit would best fit that. But I leave that to whoever ''really'' wants to dive that deep into it, as the next logical step beyond mere attempted pedantry. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 20:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
: Every other 2 billion years, on days when it's cloudy or raining, the neighborhood ''doesn't'' get to see the spectacular show. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.98|162.158.154.98]] 19:19, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

There are competing factors with regard to the eclipse. Obviously total eclipses don't last for an entire year {{cn}}, but in the distant past when the Moon was significantly closer, they occurred much more frequently than once every 350 years. Far enough back, the moon was significantly larger in the sky and orbited much more rapidly making total solar eclipses a much more common event (even if nobody with eyes was around to see). Using constants for probabilities when things have significant variation is tricky. [[User:Galeindfal|Galeindfal]] ([[User talk:Galeindfal|talk]]) 14:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
:I just added (without having seen the above comment) something that deals with that. Actually, that and the way that the 'beat frequency' may ''just'' fail to create an all-effect maximum due to it not being a strictly repeating frequency (if you have an eclipse on one date, with a "1 event in 350 years" calculation for your location/latitude, it doesn't preclude more than one per 350 years or two separated by vastly more than 350 years - though still likely to get "N+1" eclipses over any given 350xN year period for higher Ns).
:If it's a combinatorial experience of fully periodic frquencies (such as with [[1331: Frequency]] then you can be precise over the beat-frequency, but any statistical perturbation can make a 'full hit' into a 'not-fully hit' event quite easily. At its simplest, though the chances of any given day (or useful fraction of a day) of being clear-skied may be 50%, it's not as simple to say "yesterday was cloudy, tomorrow will be clear", or vice-versa. Perhaps slightly more useful to say that than "the year just gone had no clouds, so this year will be full of them" or imagining that every second you could glance up and see "clouds...", "no clouds...", "clouds...", "no clouds...". The meteorological 'calculations' would never be anywhere near as simple as even the (future-trends modified) far-future predictability of the astronomical effects. The biologist might be able to be reasonably sure that the season-locked emergence of a given cicada brood will actually continue to satisfy ''their'' contribution to the calculation for much longer than the weatherman might (though they'd have to admit to the high probability that an ecological upset would flat out end any chances before any of the other forecasts become too hazy to rely upon).
::So the changing of frequencies over the time of the 9calculated) meta-beat's recurrance will make for an compoundedly-chaotic 'actual' meta-beat (assuming it ever completes). This includes the possibility that it actually re-meshes its individual occurances into an actually far more frequent coincidence (two consecutive cicada emergences could end up ''both'' being accompanied by all the other requirements). Depends how much you take at face-value, rather than as a rough and ready 'approximation' for fun-and-non-profit... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 20:22, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

The adjustment due to leap years is far dwarfed by the approximate nature of "20 days" and "2 months" in some of the events. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:06, 13 August 2024 (UTC)