explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1350: Lorenz

2025-05-18T14:33:07Z

172.68.205.187:

During the first few weeks there were so much talk on this page, that it became too long. The solution was to remove the page from the explanation. But now almost no one makes any comment anymore. To help with this I will try to collapse all the original talk - last entry (mine) is already a month old. It will always be possible to see all the old comments by pressing the expand button to the far right. So feel free to comment below again - then someone might notice that there has been written something new again! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:32, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
:Un-expanded them. Enjoy! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:41, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

----

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)b
::I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.61|173.245.50.61]] 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.192|108.162.212.192]] 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........[[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here... and a lot of space below it. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. [http://i.imgur.com/pw2OfOL.png Screenshot here].
UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access."
FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com!
It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

** I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from ''<nowiki><div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')})
</script></div></nowiki>'', and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.224|141.101.89.224]] 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

** I only get a blank page with on the bottom a link to the comic 1349. Both on 2 firefoxes (different systems) and a chromium. so however wonderfull it might be, the delivery is less then stellar. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.145|173.245.53.145]] 15:54, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.12|108.162.219.12]] 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is it the same as was used in Externalities? [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?
*Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
*These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
*Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
*Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays
--[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:0cd52ed0-bb15-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd There's a frame with Chinese in it! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.118|141.101.99.118]] 18:06, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, though the second-tier options have changed [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1193:_Externalities 1193: Externalities] is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::: I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
::::::New initial option! I just got "Hurry! We're in talks with Facebook." In place of the "refresh" option. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:2b330d48-bb01-11e3-8003-002590d77bdd --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.8|108.162.242.8]] 23:15, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public '''votes''' for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd [[User:Haithere|Haithere]] ([[User talk:Haithere|talk]]) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program {{unsigned ip|108.162.242.111}}
::: it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.65}}
:::: found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.28|108.162.215.28]] 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error:
Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21
Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null
Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js
Line: 2 -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. ''– [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)''

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.8|108.162.245.8]] 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Has this been found before?
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.73|173.245.55.73]] 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:Ok, I'm gonna add those. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Great! And now I found another: Pikachu uses Ethylene Dichloride. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6f59d766-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
I'll add it to the but about pikachu in the comic, but the pictures are up to someone else.[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Slightly different space path, in which the rocket expodes: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:dd99ea0e-ba04-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

:Good. I've finished adding all images that you mentioned. Also, the two last images of the slightly different space path were not in the images page, now I added them too. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 00:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Pikachu died! Radicality failed -> Pikachu in shock! http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5c565bf2-ba05-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd --eternia 7:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:Pikachu uses Graph Theory. How is that not effective?! http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:52f2389c-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd --eternia 7:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
::Pikachu uses Ant Colony. Uwah... http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:2b707ed6-ba97-11e3-8006-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:02, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:::1 shark instead of 3. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:9ba111ee-ba96-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
::::0 sharks. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:e0e4d984-baaf-11e3-8026-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:17, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::I'm gonna add those too. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 12:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Are there any panels that have two speech bubbles that are not dead ends? It seems that there are never any options for the second bubble, and sometimes the first bubble has options that would fit in the second bubble after the other options for the first bubble. Maybe submissions for the second bubble accidentally end up in the first instead? Another bug? [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's a change for us still-bugged people (well, me at least). The "show previous comic" part is gone. It shows a blank area (instead of Comic 1349 and a blank area of the same size) and the page-source shows that the ''<nowiki><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /></nowiki>'' part has now been excised from the page. That's on Javascript-enabled, cookie-enabled Firefox ''and'' IE browsers, and every valid URL configuration one can think of (including shift-refreshing to force redownloading, just in case it was page-cache issues as well). I'll update the Bugs section of the explanation page with a summary of that, if you don't mind. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.211|141.101.88.211]] 01:48, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
;Transcipt discussion
;Design
*What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
*Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Could we use the hide option so you only see the options from the first panel. Then you unhide to see the next panel etc. This would be a little like the comic and would make it much easier to read and it would not be such a long page! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:35, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
*:I'm working on the hide option. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 15:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
*::I now implemented the hide option. It looks good! in my opinion. It should be easy to edit. It would be too much work to convert the whole thing to the collapsible version so, sorry but I just removed the whole thing and started from the very beginning. This[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1350:_Lorenz&oldid=64245] is the link to the old version, in case anyone wants to help converting it to the collapsible version. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 16:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:I did the same for trivia with a separate page for the old version that can be expanded if anyone wishes. And all the work is not lost. I have linked to it from trivia but it is here: [[1350: Lorenz/Transcript]]. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
*How will the transcript work for when two characters speak? Those cases do exist; they're not all bugged. For example, in the "OpenBSD Branch", "Why not haiku?" and "Let's go exploring!" have further responses. --[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.63|199.27.128.63]] 06:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
;Characters
*Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** Also he is called Dave here: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3b1a226e-b9c6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Is the right politician = Cueball?
*Who is the left? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Exactly my point. I think we should stick with hairy guy and maybe Knit Cap Guy! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:28, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

:I see you already changed Hat Guy to Knit Cap Guy and Dave to Hairy. Knit Cap Guy is a nice name. Originally, I would disagree with you and insist we should stick to Dave because that's what the character is called in one storyline of the strip itself, but I see he is also called Frank in other timeline. Since he has multiple names, using just Hairy is better in my opinion, too. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 12:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Knit Cap Guy is probably a Girl. Just sayin'. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.28|173.245.52.28]] 12:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

:Probably! Originally I thought it was Megan with a knit cap on. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 12:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

:It IS a girl! http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:1e4325a2-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.66|173.245.48.66]] 21:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

::Well I think you are correct - that it is a girl. However you can NEVER use text in the comic to decide - because it is user created - I could have written the same line with guy instead of girl! Anyway - could someone change Knit Cap Guy to Knit Cap Girl? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
:::Can see it has been done - great [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
::::I've found a story where he/she is male! Thus contradicting the story above, where he/she is female, and proving that we really can't use text to determine the sex. Here we have "Beanie Man". http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:b6fcd098-ba98-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd
::::(But... She looks female-ish enough to me, so I personally feel inclined to keep Knit Cap Girl in the article. Also, for laziness if nothing else. Feel free to disagree with me on that.) [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 11:07, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:::::Also, sometimes she is called Lorenz. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:bcc77a5c-ba23-11e3-801b-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 11:40, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
:I always mentally called the guy 'Hikaru' because the guy's hat reminded me of the Nice Hat that Hikaru Azuma wore a lot in {{w|With the Light}}. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 03:55, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

;Other
*Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh, now they work again. ;) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:31, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:The permalinks has stopped working for me [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 20:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the initial four options presented to the reader are now fixed and do not change. "These stupid tiles..." and "Gravity. Lots of it." are no longer available options. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've played the comic many times over the past couple of days and I've never received those two options). Should the transcript be edited to reflect that? [[User:Enchantedsleeper|Enchantedsleeper]] ([[User talk:Enchantedsleeper|talk]]) 21:53, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

;Chategories not yet included
Should they be?
*I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*I understand that many categories has been deleted as all text references can be user generated. But when there is a drawing with a dinosaur then this categories should be included etc. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:14, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
*I would like to discuss the number of categories. If anything is in thks comics pictures then it should be included as a category. So dinos and Pokémon for sure as well as character's and collor. So I include some again - please do not delete. If you need to find where Pokémon has been referenced this commic should come in the list! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:03, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

;Images
I created [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page [[1350: Lorenz]], but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:Great idea - just what I hoped someone would and could do. Thanks ;) Is it easy to add new images to the page if they show up? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
::You're welcome! :) It's pretty easy... I explained in the images page how exactly you would save a new image if they show up. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 13:52, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:Can see there keep appearing new images from the text above. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:39, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:New shark images here: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:30f53d98-bbb3-11e3-801c-002590d77bdd {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.65}}
:I have updated the page and made a talk page there to add comments like the above. Have already found d 3 new images cannot add them with this tablet [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for this work, but nobody knows if this is complete. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:49, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

;Many-worlds interpretation

The title text "Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story" might as well be a hint to Hugh Everett III 's "Many-worlds interpretation"
of quantum theory. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.74}}
:Except that the title is Lorenz a direct reference to the guy with the butterfly effect... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:37, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
::Can't it be both? The Butterfly Effect can be seen as one consequence of the Many-Worlds interpretation. A choice as simple as whether (or where) a butterfly flaps its wings can send our entire universe down a different timeline, in which a hurricane occurs. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.49|108.162.216.49]] 19:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

;Most, maybe all pictures do correspond to an existing comic here
I'm calling on you to not destroy a first simple explain, even the transcript. But nearly every picture belongs to a former comic — this has to be explained at the ''Themes'' section. We have some dinosaurs, but there is much more. Please help on this issue. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:56, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
::After I understood what you mean I agree. All pictures collected should be explained in the themes section and preferably with a line to a story that includes the picture. There are so many I can't find. Some may never be available again... ? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:59, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

:What are you referring to? Has anyone deleted something important? Hope it wasn't me? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

::Well I can see it was me. We obviously disagree with what could be a trivia item and with which categories should be included even obvious ones. There has before been mention of missing pieces of hats etc and when there is one in hundreds of images with an error then it could make a fun trivia item in my opinion! I will stop editing and let you decide what to do with this comic? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

:::You totally misunderstand me. I'm asking for an explain to every picture because it should belong to a former comic.
:::Further more I'm just trying to keep the explain as simple as possible; individual error experiences should not be posted at the explain. I did remove that content in order to keep it simple as possible to an ordinary reader.
:::Please improve the picture explains, but also please keep that explain simple as possible to readers are not interested on all that crap done by Randall.
:::--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
::::Great and thanks for this explain and sorry I was grumpy in my reply before. Do you mean there should be an explanation for every single picture? Maybe this should be moved to a separate page like the list of images - they take up lots of space in the explain page - or they could be hided like the new transcript? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
::::Have begun the full image explanation...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:03, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

;Visual tree / map?
How hard would it be to come up with a tree graphing out the different choices? The nodes could be panels and the lines could represent text choices. Has anyone tried it?
--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.34|108.162.221.34]] 23:40, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
:I added hide/show functionality to the transcript. It's easier to read and navigate now. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 15:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
::Great - this was also what I had in mind :-) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
:::Not so great it has been deleted... Again! I have inserted a link to the last page before Dgbrt deleted all 25000 signs. Considering the enormous work done to create this transcript I think we should let it be at least awailable as a trivia link. I cannot create the page from my tablet, but would rather have a lorenz transcript page than an old version like now. Maybe on this page again? [[1350: Lorenz/Transcript]]. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 23:03, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
::::I restored the old version in [[1350: Lorenz/Transcript]]. (Also, I used divs this time rather than templates.) [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 05:00, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

;I got my suggestion as part of the main story!
I noticed in the "references to video games" section that "Actually it's the final castle - grab your fire flower!" was one of the options. I suggested that! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.27|108.162.212.27]] 17:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

;Are we sure the title is not related to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_gauge_condition ?
For example, in Italy, the Lorenz Gauge Condition is dubbed "The Lorenz's choice". {{unsigned ip|108.162.212.218}}

;Should there be an interactive comic category?
It is kind of covered by the dynamic category, but between click and drag and this, as well as possible future comics, might it need to be its own seperate new category? [[User:Athang|Athang]] ([[User talk:Athang|talk]]) 23:00, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

The "stupid tiles" option has vanished from panel 1. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.222|199.27.130.222]] 00:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is that for good or just for you? How many times did you reload and did you try different browsers? It should always be awailable via a saved permalink, like you findin the transcript. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:32, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
::This probably happens at the same time for all users, considering that I read 199.27.130.222's message immediately after he/she sent it and at that point the "stupid tiles" option had vanished for me as well, but this was clearly temporary since it's back now.
::I only tested on Firefox. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 04:08, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
::I still get this option?? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 22:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

;Records in most panels
I have started a collection of records. I just entered what I could find to give an example. I was sure that my pheble attempts soon would be helped sore by someone who had saved the good ones... And already this is happening. Please continue to improve the records and also add more themes if I left them out [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:00, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

;Gravity lots of it?
I have never seen this option. Could someone post a permalink to such a story - could be as a record. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

;Some cool stuff i found, don't know if anyone wants to add these to the main page

Pikachu: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:80858d8c-ba22-11e3-801a-002590d77bdd

Giant pit: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:ea9342a0-bc02-11e3-8034-002590d77bdd

Goodbye, BSD: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:bae4c63c-ba31-11e3-8034-002590d77bdd

Reddit and rockets: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:602c39a8-ba92-11e3-8006-002590d77bdd

More BSD Pikachu: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:f5760770-baae-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd

Bird-powered car: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:cc4467b2-baf3-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

This happens a lot: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:b69f6096-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd

Dinos: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:679012b0-bb4f-11e3-805b-002590d77bdd

These stupid lines: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:360411c2-baa2-11e3-8012-002590d77bdd

Pretty long: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:7d40621c-bae7-11e3-8002-002590d77bdd

[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 22:37, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

:Thanks for your findings. This has to be added to the explain, your titles on this are GREAT! Maybe you — or someone else — does have a nice idea how to publish all this permalinks in a proper way.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

::More (mostly dream recursion):

Lord of the rings: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:40a1ac80-ba06-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd

Another moat: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:eee0d4c6-baea-11e3-8002-002590d77bdd

Looping back: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:d7970042-bae5-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

Looping back 2: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3f654048-badd-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

Never seen it loop this many times: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:20698602-bbb1-11e3-801c-002590d77bdd

Even more looping: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:75e8f03e-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd

Looping to a rocket: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3aa7da8e-bae7-11e3-8002-002590d77bdd

Dream recursion: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:5e94d028-bb7d-11e3-8012-002590d77bdd

Where did the Pikachu come from?: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:97c42da2-bb01-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd

Ethylene dichloride: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:93312202-ba4f-11e3-8037-002590d77bdd

More rockets: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:34f7f602-ba3b-11e3-8035-002590d77bdd

Even more rockets: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:8440e346-bb16-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd

More recursion: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:20698602-bbb1-11e3-801c-002590d77bdd

Blowtorch: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:c40db5fc-baf9-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

Another blowtorch: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:97cbd552-bb01-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd

Most different stories i've seen in one: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:60d11a70-bb16-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd

[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 21:33, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

More:

More pikachu: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:feaa5d4e-bbd2-11e3-802c-002590d77bdd

Long pikachu fight: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:d87d8344-bafb-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

Plantains: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:22d57484-bb28-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd

Many pikachus: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:d04aabf0-b9fe-11e3-8016-002590d77bdd

Much pikachu: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:f203d1c6-ba22-11e3-801a-002590d77bdd

Such pikachu: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:a5485722-ba26-11e3-8020-002590d77bdd

Very pikachu: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:81c9e8c8-ba1d-11e3-8018-002590d77bdd
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 22:49, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

:I haven't seen them all - but have you checked the records at the bottom of the explain page - those you call pretty long does not seem to get close to the 77 picture record... Are there any new pictures not featured in the picture page linked to from the top of the explain? Else this does not seem so interesting to me... ;-) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:55, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
::Ah so there were interesting stuff around. And I can see that at least one of them has already been added as a Pokémon record. Great - cool if you wrote how many panels - or if there where new pictures - it would be easier to look through them. The double dream I had been looking for, thanks I will add it to the record page under dreams [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:59, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
::Seen them all and added several to the record for themes trivia. Thanks - but please more info~(length, themes) if you still care to share [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:36, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

;Finishing the explanation
I have just done a huge job putting all the images from the list in under the themes sections. I hope others can take over and find permalinks that include all the images that are not yet on references in the links I have inserted. Also there are some of the first options that seeem to not exist anymore (Gravity lots of it) and also there was the error with the same line twice. I found it one day, but then there where no new images if you chose it. I did not save the permalink and now it seems like it is all gone.
Good work guys and girls - I have a holiday comming up with no much computer time... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 02:51, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

;Greasemonkey Script
I've just mad a script to visit random stories, and record the corresponding transcripts. It's available here: https://github.com/edfel/Lorenz/ . I hope someone can find it useful! Edfel. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.163|108.162.254.163]] 14:24, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

;Dump
One idea: Maybe someone could create a script to automatically navigate Lorenz and create a dump of all the results, to fill [[1350: Lorenz/Transcript]].
I know more-or-less how that would work in "pseudocode" so I could help but I'm not going to do it (writing actual code, testing, debugging, accounting for each individual frame, etc) any time soon. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 07:47, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

;Go home, Saturn, you're drunk.

Quintuple Saturn POWER!
http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:9adca534-b9b0-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.10|173.245.54.10]] 01:44, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

;What-If XKCD

http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:b1210692-bae5-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Recognize this one? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.10|173.245.54.10]] 02:09, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

;Why are the punctuation marks clipping?

I don't know what's going on, but a comma looks just like a period in the comic. The letters E, F, and I also display strangely. What's going on?[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.96|199.27.128.96]] 01:58, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

; Lorenz down time
Today there was no access to Lorenz. Tried both Firefox, Chrome and internet explorer. Just mentioning it here, if this is a permanent problem - so people can see how long it has been down. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:43, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
:Well it was already up again now. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:42, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

----

After inserting the collapsing talk page - the old can be seen just by clicking the expand button. But if you wish to write anything new, then do it here below at the very bottom of the talk page so it may be seen. I have this comment - after a few weeks I believe nothing new happened in this comic. I think it is now fixed. Of course this is very hard to prove. But I have completed some branches of the interactive transcript. So let me know if you can find any new options I have missed (I could have missed if there were more than four options in a panel - but not at the dead-ends! I have also just made major revisions of the explanation and it's layout - based on my observations. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:48, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
:Unexpanded them. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:41, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

I just found a panel where it gets past the person on the comet, only one panel though... http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:25743f70-baee-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.69|108.162.254.69]] 19:24, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
:Great. Have added the image to the list of images and to the theme above. Keep any new images coming here.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

It's interesting the chess player in 1112 ("Think logically") resembles the knit cap girl. It's weird that Megan (or Randall's wife) after chemotherapy also wears a cap (1141, "Two years"). Is there any possible connections between them (or simply a coincidence)?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.108|108.162.215.108]] 04:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
:I have added links to three other comics using knit caps, including the two you mentioned. Thanks. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

I noticed that the image url noted on xkcd.com is the same as the one for #1349 - Shouldn't Be Hard. Not sure if it is caused by the interactivity disallowing an image upload, or an error on Randall's part (I'd imagine working through this comic's issues was pretty distracting). 15:37, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
:I believe this was fixed. At least it seems to look correct now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:24, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

God damn I hate boomerangs now.
[[Special:Contributions/172.68.65.240|172.68.65.240]] 03:49, 22 November 2017 (UTC)Bob

Hey guys, are we still missing the ocean comics? because I found one that links there. https://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3df213b4-ba4f-11e3-8037-002590d77bdd . not far after though. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.129|173.245.48.129]] 02:41, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I found a (possibly) bug where the comic doesn't load and there's just a comic-sized blank space. 19:48, 3 January 2019 (UTC) {{unsigned|Cheese12}}

As of this week I found out that {{xkcd|1350|Lorenz}} seems to have stopped working on xkcd... This makes all the permalink invalid. ;-( --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:03, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
:I also found that people have been writing new entries from the top which meant I did not see Cheese12 comment that this was so all the way back in January 2019. I have rearranged the three comments on top to the right post order here at the bottom and added a signature for Cheese12 and a day for the edit for reference to how long it has been broken. Also removed a (now broken) permalink that was left over when a user posted something and then deleted it again. It was stick beneath my previous comment. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
::Looked on the webarchive and the latest version of the comic there is from July 2019. [https://web.archive.org/web/20190719205955/https://xkcd.com/1350/ 2019-07-19]. It seems correct there with the first picture with options... Of course it is no use trying to move on, either because it is a web archive or because Lorentz doesn't work anymore on xkcd. But it seems like it should not have displayed that image if it had been a recent version of the comic, as there are no image on the page now. If this is true, then it should not have been down all the time since January as Cheese12 wrote above... But I have no idea how the web archive works for such a complicated comic page? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:22, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
:I suspect this is related to the XKCD forums being taken down. Umwelt, Externalities, Landing, and xkcloud are also down. [[User:Tbodt|Tbodt]] ([[User talk:Tbodt|talk]]) 19:19, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I think it's working again. [[User:Crazymachinefan|Crazymachinefan]] ([[User talk:Crazymachinefan|talk]]) 04:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I just found a bunch of new things that can occur including a new image. Here are the permalinks: https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:b0bcef14-baf3-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd --Knit Cap Girl rather than Hairy wakes up after the KSP rocket launch image; https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:8e2a0d7a-baf2-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd --permalink for Hairy silhouette image; https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:8a36f73e-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd --permalink for Hairy getting to a sale without lying in bed; https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:d4cd36d8-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd NEW IMAGE-- Hairy in silhouette not talking. EDIT: Here's something *fascinating*... this panel can have either one or two responses depending on what's chosen for the first. Here's the permalink - https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:b2dde69c-b9c0-11e3-8007-002590d77bdd [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.29|162.158.107.29]] 20:23, 22 October 2020 (UTC)Anonymous Waste of Time

I found a weird thing. https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:73113e0c-b9f6-11e3-8011-002590d77bdd If you select 15615 the comic freezes. The text doesn't appear, no new panels appear. [[User:PkmnQ|PkmnQ]] ([[User talk:PkmnQ|talk]]) 05:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
:I tried it on another device, and again it froze when I selected 15615. Can someone else try to recreate it? [[User:PkmnQ|PkmnQ]] ([[User talk:PkmnQ|talk]]) 05:47, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

: yeah it's the same for me too --Anonymous Waste of Time

: I looked at the console, and an error pops up, so there's at least a tiny clue to why it happens. [[User:PkmnQ|PkmnQ]] ([[User talk:PkmnQ|talk]]) 08:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
Uncaught TypeError: e.replace is not a function
at Odlaw._comicText (bernardo.min.js:2)
at Odlaw._makeText (bernardo.min.js:2)
at Odlaw.chooseOption (bernardo.min.js:2)
at n (bernardo.min.js:2)
at HTMLLIElement.<anonymous> (bernardo.min.js:2)
at HTMLUListElement.dispatch (VM44 b66ed7.js:3)
at HTMLUListElement.r.handle (VM44 b66ed7.js:3)

:: My best guess is that 15615 is being interpreted as a number instead of a string. However, when I type in 5 as a new option it works correctly. It might be from some old input bug that was changed later on. [[User:PkmnQ|PkmnQ]] ([[User talk:PkmnQ|talk]]) 08:05, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

'''Cleaning up'''

Why was the (general) grammar of this comic so bad? I am putting in hours into this comic to fix this (and what I was originally doing, which was changing all instances of 'Knit Cap Girl' to 'Knit Cap' and changing 'she/her/hers' to 'he/him/his'). I'm about 2/3 done. [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 14:14, 1st July 2021 (UTC)
:Finished :D [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 22:42, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
::Took a while because I changed schools and I can't get onto explainxkcd on the new website (and also I'm lazy). [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 22:44, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Not sure if this is known, but there's a path where Theft is super effective and the first move. Not sure how to hyperlink on phone, though. It's tiles, 4096, pastel color, middle class ennui, wonder why it's socially acceptable.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.33|172.70.178.33]] 21:43, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I think I found the shortest possible path. https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:0b364d02-bb65-11e3-800e-002590d77bdd [[User:IJustWantToEditStuff|IJustWantToEditStuff]] ([[User talk:IJustWantToEditStuff|talk]]) 19:48, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

the political path is not there anymore. i think the BSD path replaced it? {{unsigned ip|108.162.245.183|18:30, 17 November 2023‎}}

Here's a 24-panel Pokémon-theme:

https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:a894b980-baf2-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd

[[User:ErRor 6o6|ErRor 6o6]] ([[User talk:ErRor 6o6|talk]]) 16:20, 29 April 2024

found a pretty long variation on the old longest one. might be longer, or mabye same length?
https://xkcd.com/1350/#p:ffa26ce0-bade-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 {{unsigned ip|172.70.178.135|23:09, 26 September 2024}}

some of the links on here don't work anymore, at least for me. what's going on? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.109|172.71.150.109]] 06:01, 21 April 2025 (UTC)
:Followed a random sample of links, internal and external, none of them were broken. Can you give examples? How broken? Was it just the occasional "cannot give you this page..." error that usually fixes on refreshing? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.216.66|162.158.216.66]] 08:49, 21 April 2025 (UTC)

I think the links that don't work are those that needed invalid options now (for instance, if the starting point of the permalink is 'Oh hey theres some kind of politcal thing going on' or 'gravity. lot's of it' in the starting panel then it's not going to work because those options are presumably deleted now, so those Permalinks now start with invalid options... {{unsigned ip|172.69.166.96|08:43, 18 May 2025}}

Talk:3090: Sail Physics

2025-05-18T00:24:15Z

172.68.205.187:

After the last step, the sailors would then need to ground the boat to avoid being pushed in a circle, wouldn't they? [[User:Sophon|Sophon]] ([[User talk:Sophon|talk]]) 20:47, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

Note that for eastward wind, the boat will be propelled upwards, while the opposite is true for westward winds. This provides a basis for the functioning of airships and planes (Helicopters are more complicated, and additionally rely on their own magnetic fields) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.217.45|162.158.217.45]] 21:21, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
: Hence why you should always touch an earthing rod before approaching a helicopter, to avoid the magnetism pulling you into their rotors. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 03:11, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Is this actually wrong? Wouldn't it still be ''a'' force on a sailboat, even if it's not the strongest? [[User:Smurfton|Smurfton]] ([[User talk:Smurfton|talk]]) 22:20, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

: I added some explaination on direction and magnitude of the lorentz force, maybe that will help - sga {{unsigned ip|172.68.234.227|22:33, 16 May 2025 (UTC)}}

The explanation states that of the four forces, only the electromagnetic force operates at the macro level. This is incorrect, as gravity is also directly observable by humans. There should also probably be a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfoil to provide an explanation for how sails actually allow a boat to sail upwind. I recommend removing the remark about the poles potentially flipping in the future, as this is irrelevant. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.55.124|172.68.55.124]] 23:52, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

: What i meant was, for 2 objects at scales of humans =, maybe did not prase it well. In this case, it is the wind and the sail. Wind does not have a "mass" (the atoms most certainly do, but) we essentially have a pressure force, or momentum of wind, where instead of using the energy of atoms (and hence the mass) as given by kinetic theory is not used (that is random (as given by boltzman maxwell statistics)) and uniform (in the sense that for any direction, number of particles going against and towards is equal) and what we have is just pressure applied by a effective "group velocity" of the wind atoms. The gravity interaction between wind and boat, or the local waves and boat is negligible, and planetary gravity is not considered because that is not relavant for in plane motion. the pole fillping was added just for future proofing the article. I am sorry for the puns. I have rewwritten some parts, and reduced the part about pole flipping, and also added the average case scenario for the force, hope it is better now. - sga {{unsigned ip|172.70.143.75|02:37+, 17 May 2025}}
::That is one huge rambling paragraph, if it's (mostly) yours. I'm no stranger to ''writing'' huge rambling paragraphs, myself, but I gave up only a little way in on trying to make it read better. Grammatically, prosaically and with relevence.
::May I suggest that each 'frame' is treated to its own (shorter) paragraph, explaining what effect it tries to convey, what logic it individually tries to follow, but where it fails and what actual forces dominate a true example. (e.g. the hull-shape, including keel, helping convert roughly lateral sideways forces into forward ones against the water; those lateral ones having already been a conversion of largely head-on winds in the first place, thus two "almost up to 90 degree" redirections of force allow ''very nearly'' a 180-degree reversal of wind-blown movement. Feel free to discuss the comparisons and differences between 'flappy sail', though blown taught by the air, and an 'upright aircraft wing' solid design. ...See, told you I could ramble, but someone can surely do better at segmenting and summarising the basics of this.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.32|172.71.178.32]] 08:32, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

This is super embarrassing to admit, but I came here to verify whether this was a serious thing or not. I had no idea how a sailboat sails against the wind. [[User:Catgofire|Catgofire]] ([[User talk:Catgofire|talk]]) 23:58, 16 May 2025 (UTC)
:You aren't alone - I think I was an adult before I understood tacking in the sailboat sense of the word. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.174.127|162.158.174.127]] 02:45, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
: I'm wanting to add in some wisdom about "science-y" explanations that appear to be sensible but are completely wrong, segueing into how generative language models appear to be far more reliable than they are. However this margin is too narrow [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 03:09, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I've been really annoyed with ExplainXKCD in the last few months ever since the initial posting has always been LLM generated. It requires more brain power to make sense of AI slop and edit it, than to contribute to a blank page. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.162.103|162.158.162.103]] {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.103|15:44, 17 May 2025|...yes, probably signed with just three tildes, by accident, but the intended message is the same...}}
:I don't think that LLM has been used for the most troublesome bits. LLMs can 'hallucinate', but tend (unless ''specifically'' asked) to make a lot more grammatical sense if you don't look too much further. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.33.240|162.158.33.240]] 18:29, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Any chance we can add an explanation of how it *actually* works? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.216.174|162.158.216.174]] 10:03, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
:Through judicious angling of sail, wind (from any direction other than fully head-on) is deflected(/uses 'wing-effect') to create a force, trying to push the boat, that might be mostly sideways but also a bit forward. Because of the shape of the hull, any sideways force is resisted by the water, reinforcing the remaining forward component which the hull is far more ready to take advantage of. Enough sail (and enough stability to resist rolling) gives a large amount of movement towards, but not ''exactly'' towards, the wind. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.224.72|172.69.224.72]] 10:41, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

The joke is that the most commonly used explanation for why flow over a foil generates lift - particles going one way have a longer way to travel than the other, which generates a difference in speed and therefore a pressure differential - is wrong. {{unsigned ip|172.69.109.91|10:36, 17 May 2025}}
:What is wrong with the explanation which you say is wrong? What is the more correct explanation? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.33|172.71.150.33]] 20:28, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

The picture seems to show an axis of rotation (the mast) for the sail being on the end of the sail. Is that correct for a certain class of sailing vessel?~~ {{unsigned ip|162.158.146.128|15:57, 17 May 2025}}

Currently the explanation says "most interaction of physical things at macro scale (humans and boat sized objects) are electromagnetic in nature" I have certainly read that, and have seen examples of electromagnetic interactions between atoms. However, I also encounter explanations that describe interactions in terms of Pauli exclusion principle (see for instance {{w|Contact force}}). This makes me question the view presented in the first sentence. Since my physics is a bit rusty I haven't tried to fix it, but I think it may need clarification. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.33|172.71.150.33]] 20:28, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I split up the example calculating Lorentz force on a boat. It still needs some work (I was just untangling it so I could see what it said).
The paragraph about one coulomb of charge I left as is - it needs untangling, so be bold.
In the example - somebody should recheck the math (I just copied what there, but in changing units to be more familiar, like km/h, I might have introduced errors). I also changed the field strength to the right order of magnitude for Earth's surface, and multiplied the wind speed by 10 to compensate.
As best I can figure the numbers for the example may have been chosen to get a force of 1 Newton. (I can't see any other reason for the ludicrous wind speed of thousands of km/h.) Might be better example to use a reasonable wind speed (e.g. dial it back to hurricane force) and a reasonable charge (something like what you could accumulate with an automobile, or when you zap yourself after getting out of a car seat) wind up with an even more negligible force. Then we could dispense with the paragraph explaining why 1 Coulomb is silly. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.93|172.71.151.93]] 22:15, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:If anybody wants to restore parts of it or play with it, the version with the calculation of Lorentz forces is here [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3090:_Sail_Physics&oldid=378099] I thought it somewhat interesting just as physics problem to show what the effect was.
:I got curious about how much charge is involved when one zaps oneself on a car seat. A lighting bolt is a few coulombs. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Extreme apologies to an(other) IP editor who may have made several possibly great improvements to the article. I had ''so'' many problems with what was already there that I did a massive rewrite and set things up so differently that I'm not sure that (at a very long glance, but maybe not as long as it diserves) much of that effort is really worth feeding back in. Or even capable of being. Obviously, it's up to the rest of the you (including the person/people I overrode) to make your own judgement about that. I will also go back in to carefully check what I may have desecrated. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.68|162.158.74.68]] 22:37, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:No problem. I remade a few tweaks. The calculation is linked above is anybody wants to restore part of it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

Talking of multiple sails (as the explanation does, at least right now), I'm reminded of a children's SF-based book I read when I was... well, a child. It was set on a (mostly) waterworld, as I recall, that had ''multiple'' suns (in orbit around ''it''..? ...already we can be sure it was probably not the hardest of hard-SF settings, of course). The boats/skiffs/whatever had multiple sails to move around. Multiple ''solar sails''. Depending upon which ones were deployed (kite-surfing-like), they'd get pushed (and you'd get pulled) by the ''sun that they were for''. So if you wanted to go <- thataway, deploy one particular sail, or thataway -> deploy another instead. As if solar sails even work that way. (Or even would work that way ''as effectively'' as a kite might in the... I presume there was an atmosphere... if there wasn't, then that'd explain the need for no-air sail-like solution, but raise significant other questions ...though clearly could not raise kites.) I may have misremembered some of the details, even perhaps some of the 'wrongness', but... I definitely remember I had to suspend quite a lot of disbelief (don't ask me from which sun it is hung!) when I read that. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 23:25, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

I was just looking at some things about solar sails and similar. This comic got me curious about:
Whether one could use a solar sail to sail "upwind"? -- you can - thanks to gravity and orbital mechanics. e.g., Sail in direction of your orbit - shifts apogee out, perigee in.
Whether you could build a {{w|magnetic sail))? -- yes - doesn't work quite like the one in the comic (sun provides wind of particles, sail is magnet to redirect them).
There is also a version of solar sail using electric fields to redirect charged particles.
One question I haven't found anything about is do solar sails (conventional ones, not electric) accumulate charge, and what effects that might have.
I just mention here in case anybody thinks way makes sense in comic explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.188|172.71.142.188]] 23:40, 17 May 2025 (UTC)
:Well, if you send charge along a long conductor (which might be what you do if you're sending/receiving the sail-charge through the thing that the sail is attached to the payload with), ''and'' pass through any magnetic fields (planetary, solar... galactic?) then you're into the territory of the {{w|Electrodynamic tether}} as ''also'' useful for propulsion. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 00:24, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Related to the question of how sails might work (against the wind), and the relationship to wing effects, I'm reminded of how a {{w|Cabin Pressure (radio series)|comedy radio sitcom}} dealt with the wings thing. In case it's not quickly obvious (and with some non-obvious info added), characters are Arthur ('simple' but questioning Air Steward), Carolyn (his mother, bossy owner of the airplane and chief Air Steward/everything else that's not actually flying), Martin (chief pilot/captain, knowledgable but inexperienced) and Douglas (second in command, but senior in years and experience and 'street smart'/air-smart to the point of (usually well-deserved) smugness).

{{cot|Excerpt dialogues from Cabin Pressure, series(/season) 1, episode 1}}
:[Arthur:] No, never! It’s just always exciting! That amazing moment when twelve tons of metal leaves the earth – and no-one knows why!
:[Carolyn:] Yes, we do.
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but ...you know, not really. I mean, we know you need wings and engines and a ...sticky-up bit on the end for some reason, but it’s not like we actually know why a plane stays in the air.
:[Carolyn:] No, no, Arthur, we really do. We-we do, we do know that.
:[Arthur:] Oh! How, then?
:[Carolyn:] Well ...er, because...
:[...some minor diversionary tactics break the conversation all too briefly...]
:[Carolyn:] Because there are four forces acting on the plane, and so long as two of them are bigger than the other two, the plane flies.
:[Arthur:] ...Mum, I don’t mind that no-one knows.
:[Carolyn:] But we do! We do! That’s it! What I said: that’s how.
:[Arthur:] Well, what are the four forces, then?
:[Carolyn:] Yes! Well, I will tell you what they are. Lift ...weight ...er...
:[Arthur:] Up and down?
:[Carolyn:] No, no, no, no, no. Tho-Those are up and down. No, it’s lift, weight...
:[Arthur:] Left and right.
:[Carolyn:] No, no, no, no. Lift, weight...
:[Arthur:] En...gines?
:[Carolyn:] No, no ...well, yes, yes, yes, sort of. Um, thrust, thrust. Lift, weight, thrust and...
:[Arthur:] Time.
:[Carolyn:] Drag. Lift, weight, thrust and drag. So, the weight and drag are overcome because the engines give the plane thrust, and the wings give it lift. And that’s how a plane flies.
:[Arthur:] How do the wings give it lift?
:[Carolyn:] What?
:[Arthur:] The wings are really heavy. How does bolting two ginormous lumps of metal to a ginormous lump of metal give it lift?
:[Carolyn:] Well, because they are wings. Well, they’re like birds’ wings.
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but birds’ wings flap. Ours don’t flap. They’ve got flaps, but I once watched the flaps all the way to Stockholm and, take it from me, they are seriously mis-named. So-so why does having wings make a plane leave the runway?
:[conveniently timed distraction occurs to take Carolyn away...]
:[Arthur:] Yeah, but how do the wings...
:[...letting the conversation and action move on, until...]

:[Douglas:] And now it’s back to the boring old plane flying.
:[Arthur:] Oh, yes. About that. Um, I wanted to ask you something, Skipper. Mum was telling me this morning that planes fly because they’ve got wings.
:[Douglas:] Is there anything that woman doesn’t know?
:[Arthur:] But she didn’t really explain – why do wings lift us up?
:[Douglas:] Ah, well. Essentially...
:[Martin:] Uh, Douglas, he asked me. Listen carefully, Arthur. The wing is curved on top but flat on the bottom. When it meets the air, it splits it in two. The air that goes over the top has further to go, so it has to go faster to keep up with the air underneath. That reduces the pressure above the wing, giving us lift.
:[Arthur:] Ah, fantastic! Thanks, Skipper! I totally get it now.
:[Martin:] You’re welcome.
:[Arthur:] Except ...why does it have to?
:[Martin:] Why does what what?
:[Arthur:] Why does the air on the top have to keep up with the air on the bottom? Why don’t they just split up?
:[pause]
:[Douglas:] ...for the sake of the kids?
:[action moves on again, until...]

:[...they need to distract Arthur from ''something else'']
:[Douglas:] Arthur, you were asking why the air over the wing has to keep up with the air underneath.
:[Arthur:] Ooh, yes. Do you know?
:[Douglas:] Indeed I do. Attend: the air is not passing over the wing; the wing is passing through the air, so the curved upper side stretches the air forced over it apart, reducing pressure, producing lift. The lift pushes up; the weight pushes down – so as long as the lift is more than the weight, up we go. And that, my friend, is how an aeroplane flies.
:[Arthur:] Got it! Right, yes! Cracking! I completely get it now.
:[Douglas:] Good. You see, it’s actually quite easy to grasp when it’s explained properly by someone who understands...
:[Arthur:] So that’s why planes can’t fly upside down.
:[Douglas:] Er, yes they can.
:[Arthur:] Can they?
:[Douglas:] Well, of course they can. Haven’t you seen the Red Arrows?
:[Arthur:] But ...doesn’t that mean the curved side of the wing is on the bottom, so the lift is pushing down as well as the weight? How does that work?
:[Martin:] Yes, Douglas. How does that work?
:[Douglas:] Well, Arthur, there’s a very simple explanation; but just to finish what we were saying, Martin...
[...the ''something else'' is raised as a distraction from the question]
:[Douglas:] No-one wants to hear the explanation. What a shame.
{{cob}}
...just thought anyone who hadn't heard this (or had, but liked the comedy involved) might like to read it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 00:24, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3090: Sail Physics

2025-05-17T23:25:34Z

172.68.205.187:

User talk:FaviFake

2025-05-06T20:52:28Z

172.68.205.187: /* So, the HiddenCat..? */

<big><big><big><big>Hey there, feel free to '''[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:FaviFake&action=edit&section=new send me a message]''' :)</big></big></big><div style="float:right;margin-left:10px;margin-bottom:10px;">__TOC__</div></big>

== Objects table ==
Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books). There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''. Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.

What is also missing in the table are many structures or objects found on the planets and, most importantly, dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.

Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.

Technical remarks:
* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.

-- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 19:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
:> Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books).
:Hey! Yeah, that's the state of the table ''right now'', and I 100% percent agree with everything you're saying here. All planets and items that need an explanation should be explained and not just described. I mostly just copied and pasted the "planet description/explanations" from the old list to the table: creating the table was way more painful than i thought. I was actually surprized to see that nobody explained what Andal referred to, but I don't know anything about it so more knowledgeable people will have to chip in on that

:>There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''.
:I do! And I wish other people could help here. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but this is the banner i put above the table:
----
'''ALL ITEM EXPLANATIONS NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE OLD PLANET LIST TO THE NEW TABLE''' 
We are currently switching from a disorganized list (below, inside the green banner) to the new organized table, but the explanations for specific items are missing from the new table. Please help by copying the item explanations from the old list and adding them to the new table ''in this format:'' 
<code>The item message &ndash; <nowiki>''Where to find it &ndash; Explanation, such as references etc''</nowiki></code> 
Example: You found a cheese platter (Your tanks recharge faster) – ''Next to the cell tower – The cheese is a reference to [https://example.com 1234: Cheese]''
----
'''OTHER ISSUES:'''
* upgrades that end in "???" need to be replaced by the exact upgrade message shown to the user.
* the "Tiles (X, Y)" column for planet coordinates is empty

:As you can see, the explanations should be put right next to the items and messages. Unfortunately no one has started to add them to the table yet

:> Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.
:Your English is excellent :)

:> dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.
Almost all the dialogues are on the [[2765: Escape Speed/Transcript]] page, so I guess they should be added there. I don't know if they're already here, I haven't looked at it enough
:: The transcript is not the place for explanations. Puns and references shall be explained elsewhere. I continue working on the transcript but there's still quite a way to go. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

:> Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.
:Yeah; i totally get everything you said. In my last reply I think I was a bit too rude for some reason, maybe it's because I just finished the table and was tired.

:>* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
:* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.
I was heavily inspired by the table in the [[2712: Gravity]] explanation, which included these. I kind of agree that the filename could be removed, and the filenames could be added to the planet name or explanation, i didn't think about that. About the tiles, someone might use them someday, but if the column keeps remaining empty, i don't mind seeing it disappear

:I really liked your ideas, if you don't mind I'll copy and paste this discussion in the actual comic discussion page and see what others think --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:37, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

::Update: I found a way and added all the coordinates, and moved the planet filenames to the Planet Name column to make more space for the other columns :)

::: Hi, what about dividing planets and objects like in [[User:Malgond/Drafts/Escape_Speed|my experiment]]? There's plenty of horizontal space for explanations and the entries are quite compact vertically. I also think about color-coding the different Types of game objects. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

::::Hmm, I think it looks a little messy and maybe too complicated. Do any other comics have two different tables? Also, I'm personally not a fan of mixing items, landscapes, and people. I think most people reading the table are there to get an overview of the planets and what they contain. Do we really have to explain everything in such detail? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:09, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::We do not have to follow other explanations too closely, we could use a new form if it seems clearer and better. The current form has no place neither for explaining items nor for dialogues/monologues. More columns could be problematic (specifically in today's world of high and narrow screens of smartphones). Should we explain everything? Well, it us up to collective "us". Personally, I would like someone explain a few puns/dialogues I do not understand.
:::::For now, there's only a handful of people still interested in somehow finishing the explanation for this huge comic. Maybe if we two can agree on some format we could put it in discussion page and ask for votes. (Discussion needs a cleanup, BTW). -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 22:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::Hey, I'm back. I see you're enhancing your example table, and iI was wondering, do you plan to move your edits to the actual article after you're done and use the test to see how the formatting looks? Isn't it easier to just add them to the main page directly? Just wondering. If you want I can help you port them over :)
:::::Keeping the contents of the table on your talk page and then porting them over afterwards could lead to a loss of information added after you started editing your user page [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 13:11, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::I'm back too. Yes, I intend to put it in the main article, but I am a bit shy to replace a lot of your work; I've asked for opinions in the talk page. Let's see how it sorts out. Maybe someone has a still better idea. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 21:50, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::Oh. I think the structure of the current table in the article is better than the one you've been working on: for example, it's easier to sort for items, is more compact, and is just one. Why don't you just add a "transcript" column like the table on [[2712: Gravity]] to put what things and people say, and add the rest of the information on the respective columns? Personally, I think you're making it a little bit too complicated. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

== Haltones ==

"They're not **predominantly** gray, the two main colors are just white and black. Sometimes he uses the gray color just like when he uses any other color" ... It didn't say that they were predominantly grey(/'gray'), any more than it said that they'd be predominently black (as [[:Category:Comics with inverted brightness]], often, in preference to white). The point being that even the most "black and white" images aren't monochrome, but have degrees of grey at the boundaries, with smoothly antialiased boundaries between the full black of the line (or filled area) and the full white of the background (or inverted detail). You'll see this if you zoom in, with your favourite image editor. And very often in images with a default RGB colourspace, even if the effective pallette employed covers just greyscale values. But greys actually do feature a lot, too (often the first choice of non-black-and-white, for slight lessening of prominence, as opposed to 'red pen' ''increased'' visibility). So it's technically inaccurate to describe them as pretty much monochrome. But how to convey this in <...counts...> less than 157ish words? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.173|172.71.242.173]] 16:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:The wiki page says
::::"xkcd comics are usually plain, predominantly black-and-white line drawings, but sometimes they make use of hues beyond the usual monochrome colors, even if it is just red-penned annotations.
:I think it's enough, since, even if grey is more used than other non-monochrome colors, I don't believe it's so important that it needs to be included as a "third" main color. If Randall uses many bright colors, that he will obviously also use simpler hues of grey when needed. What do you think? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:Aside from the antialising edging gradient, I just used the Random Page link and landed on [[1301: File Extensions|something with functional greys]], [[734: Outbreak|an unusual use of 'Post-It' yellow]], an unremarkably "just black pen" comic and then [[1788: Barge|more functional grey]]. I'd argue against "monochrome" as a description, as clearly there is more than just #000000 and #FFFFFF, often enough, in an actual fill-colour/broad-brush context. Even if that's #808080 or another no-hue shade. (I was expecting to land on a "grey pen" comic to assess, after enough clicks but, having seen what I got in the random first handful, I saw no need to go on.)
:And "monochrome" can be/often is coloured. Sepia photographs or "night vision" green displays are perfect examples of monochrome (with or without halftones/dithering/whatever). As is [[267: Choices: Part 4]] (other Choices comics may be considered "duotone", in different ways).
:Maybe "...are often drawn as black shapes on white, or occasionally white shapes on a dark background, but may feature at least one additional highlighting shade or an even fuller colour pallette." Does that sufficiently cover that whole breadth of use? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.154|172.70.86.154]] 19:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

== Childish slang. ==

Agree with you on the recent change that you (generic 'you', not ''you'' 'you'!) sound infantile, any which way, upon use of the words mentioned. Which is how it was still said before the revert in that version of edit. But with <code>"pretty gay" and "retarded" are infantile and offensive slang for "foolish" or "contemptible"</code>, you miss the point. Foolishness is just one distant contender for what "pretty gay" is often intended to mean (even if not actually being used for someone/something 'effeminate'). And "retarded" is more in the whole "thick, stupid, dumb" line of insult than "contemptible" (which is more "horrible, dislikable, repulsive"..?).
 Personally, I also thought it better with not actually defining insults (correctly or otherwise), as it adds power to them. I can call someone a "numpty" in jest, for example, and colloquially that might be understood as the low-level insult (if that) which it is intended to be. But if I start to bandy around its {{wiktionary|numpty#Scots|dictionary definition}} then it becomes more of a seriously accusatory description.
 Just my opinion. Not really understanding the latest revert when it had seemed to be improved (if anything) in the version you reverted away. Just putting it there. I know you're doing a lot of editing (good stuff!) just wondering if you considered this one carefully enough in your obvious zeal. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.89|172.71.182.89]] 16:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
:Addendum. Meant to say, if you decide to undo/reform your own revert (I won't do it, but on the offchance you see my point), I'd have not said "''commonly'' used". They're used in slang, but I don't think we can say how frequently they pop up. They're "used in slang" (and also not in slang, or at least not insulting slang, where "gay" has a long history of just meaning "happy", whilst "retarded" is often to do with decceleration/minimised acceleration of physical systems) but I'm not sure they're no more than minority words in the whole world of such language. They depict a subset of insult-givers (like the character in the comic, for whom it adds a certain additional characterisation) amongst all the many and varied insult-givers, and Randall surely chose such semi-bowlderised terms to not have to write any of all the far worse words he might also have done. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.31|172.71.94.31]] 16:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

== IP page to delete ==

I didn't see your thinking about why the Deletion category was not needed there. And, believe me as an IP myself, I've never known anything useful being said on an IP's User or User Talk page. With that example not breaking the pattern any. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.131|172.70.85.131]] 00:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:I just don't think there's a reason to delete it, it's useful to have a previous talk page if the IP continues to edit and people want to communicate with them [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
::"The IP" is whichever one of 'us' happens to land on that particular Cloudflare route.
::I'm not going to go back and find out which IP it represents, to check if it's in their current stock of connected gateways, but it might not be. Or it was even (depending on date) a pre-Cloudflare 'straight' access unproxied and thus no longer seen, even if the exact same editor on the exact same IP lucked on ''their'' initial gateway.
::Certainly it won't map to a meaningful 'user', chances may even be that it doesn't map to ''any'' user. IP-version User/User Talk pages are anachronisms pretty much as soon as they're created. Or before, if based upon trying to contact an author of an older edit. I was on 172.70.85.131, above, but who knows (before I submit it) what this reply's sign-off will say.
::And a one-shot editor may never ever see the results of any conversation that was tried to be started. Whereas I ''might'' see any response, anywhere, that contextually makes it plain that they're talking about an edit I once made.
::Honestly, I think it'd be worthwhile checking ''every'' IP-focussed namespace page and archiving anything truly interesting that found itself in there in some other central location then condemning them all to deletion. Maybe, if possible, prevent their creation too. But I don't have the ability to do anything (except sift through them for any of the very rare gems of quality, but I wouldn't be able to do anything about it from there on in, so...
::...not gonna do anything more about it (I can't, other than reinstate the To Be Deleted membership, whch I won't bother with), but I hope you understand my perspective on this. I've seen you become a very useful member of the community, who I generally respect for your input and tweaks to the site, and don't expect you to take instruction from li'l ol' me (not even working with an established identity). Just consider this as food for thought, and leave it at that if you wish. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.19|162.158.34.19]] 20:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== RTL/LTR: "...but I think it refers to me" ==

Yeah, it does. The point being that we might not do anything about the smartarses who vandalise knowingly (and I don't see a problem with what you otherwise did), but when someone thinks ''they'' have unique and funny joke (along the lines of putting "Citation needed"s ''everywhere'') they might spot the comment and then realise how we've seen it all done before so refrain from the prank. I can't even recall how many times we have had to revert things, but best to put off the casual comedian, and it won't change the outcome either way for the dedicated vandal with their blood up and looking to cause trouble. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.107|141.101.98.107]] 20:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:I guess you're right, I just thought it was very clear for everyone that rendering an entire article unreadable was an act of pure vandalism, but I guess an editor comment doesn't hurt. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== The reason "the image size wasn't there"? ==

...because it didn't need an image-size restriction, originally? Compare the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:Miss_lenhart.png previous and current version sizes]. Nice to have a (''huge!'') high-res headshot, no doubt, but clearly that's why you found that it now needs artificially constraining... No actual mystery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.63|172.70.85.63]] 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:Yeah you're right, I just assumed every comic had the image size to be future-proof. The weird thing was that the "imagesize: " part was already there, but there was no value. Anyway, nothing important.

== I disagree with Oxford commas. ==

"For breakfast I had some bread, toast, and jam." - A legitimate(ish) case of ", and ". Or "I created the world, and saw that it was good." I otherwise prefer to suscribe to replacing all non-final conjunctions in sequence with commas but ''not'' adding one before the ultimate (remaining) conjunction. That's like having "Fish, and chips", where it isn't an actual afterthought. And best to rephrase or repunctuate (e.g. with super-listing semicolons to separate) if you have confusing comma-breakout clauses that ''so'' easily clash (or lead you down funny garden paths) with Oxford Commas. My opinion, but this is why syntax is clearer when leaving out OCs. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.93|172.70.85.93]] 13:59, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:I just think it's better to use it everywhere to avoid any possible confusion. If we used it half the time, it would be inconsistent. But it's no big deal.
::Similarly, no big deal. Except that it ''looked'' like an error. You've done a lot of useful changes, recently... A ''lot''... Which is not a bad thing, I must add. Occasionally I've seen what (I thought!) you intended to say, and I've helped out with a misplaced word or two. And I honestly do not feel like OCs read correctly in many circumstances. How would you even OC something like "...you should paint it red, yellow or, maybe, orange"?
::The comma already does a lot of heavy lifting, four or five different uses can occur in the same sentence, with it commonly doing duty as a sub-clause parenthetical (except without the clear open/close distinction of an actual parenthetical) ''as well as'' conjunction-replacement within a list. You will find many instances of non-OCed lists on the site. In fact I find the "Please note that all contributions to explain xkcd..." bit, below this edit box, to be the exception and not the rule.
::Anyhoo... I 'corrected' an example, but did not re'correct' it once you made it obvious what rule you were working to. I think you're less right than me, naturally, even if I wouldn't say that you're more wrong. ;) But I thought I'd make you a brief note of my thoughts rather than edit-warring the issue. Less brief, now, but I hope you still take it in good humour. (Oh, yeah, I'm sort of Ok with Oxford Spelling, insofar as it's mostly what I use naturally. Except for the "-ize" bit. That and their Comma are totally against how I was taught at school, a number of decades ago. :P ) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.71|172.71.242.71]] 15:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:::You really seem to care about this a lot more than I do, if you want feel free to revert my edit back. I'm not even sure why we're here talking about commas lol
:::I'm no expert and I just like commas. Thanks for checking my edits, I think I've seen a few of your corrections. I have a lot of free time at the moment and I seem to like fixing up unorganized things here --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

== Science Girl/Hairbun ==

You may have noted that several of the Talk pages attached to those you changed already had discussions about whether someone was Hairbun or (a possibly grown-up version of) Science Girl, and you had people like Kynde support the change ''to'' treating her as Science Girl. No skin off my nose, but I'm not sure your arguments are strong enough to support your broad sweep changes in that regard. I think I'd side with "bun with trailing hair" being SG (regardless of apparent age/maturity, as the description only really says ''usually'' a child, whether you take that as prescriptivist or descriptivist) but not enough that I'd reverse your considerable efforts in this matter. But on the off-chance that you hadn't noticed the prior discussions and conclusions, before making your own assessment. FYI, only. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.204|172.71.178.204]] 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:I will properly reply to you tomorrow since it's midnight here. Btw thanks for letting me know these hyperlinks were rendered correctly, and for fixing my 1 typo <s>(after i corrected 100)</s>
::Guys, some things may be being taken too seriously. Assuming [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1608:_Hoverboard&diff=prev&oldid=317396 this was the 'one error'], yeah, the Pedant's Curse hits us all, that's the point. Easy to see how it was done (read as "a Category:Interactive..." rather than "an interactive", or whatever). Happens to the best of us, when concentrating on loads of other things. Not sure about the Jill thing, at all, myself, but that discussion is probably for soewhere else. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.158|172.69.79.158]] 22:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:::Nonononono I wasn't serious when I thanked you about the typo, I was also just kidding. I was joking about how after I corrected a ton of typos I added one more.
:::On the main topic you brought up: I think Jill's main characteristics (I'll talk about why I renamed her) are that she is a child, she is usually interested in science, and has always one or two buns with trailing hair. [[Hairbun]] isn't as defined as Jill: she just has a bun. This is what the page [[Hairbun]] (written entirely by Kynde, I haven't reformatted to remove the bullet points yet), say about the bun:
----
:::*Her appearance, apart from her glasses, can also change.
:::**In 703: Honor Societies, 708: Sex Dice, 1511: Spice Girl, 1601: Isolation and in every instance in 1608: Hoverboard her hair looks somewhat different, curly and with some kind of ponytail, but since '''her main distinguishing characteristic is the hair bun''', these comics are included.
:::[...]
:::*There are some characters with hair buns that are not Hairbun:
:::**Since she is a grown woman, she should not be confused with Jill or any other small girls with hair bun like in 1584: Moments of Inspiration.
----
:::And on the Page for Jill, before I ever touched it, it said:
:::*As she is usually also clearly a child she usually cannot be confused with Hairbun
----
:::Kynde mentioned [[1511: Spice Girl]] and [[1601: Isolation]] as featuring Hairbun and not Jill, but they look exactly like a grown-up Jill. Plus, on the gallery section on [[Hairbun]] (I'm working on adding back a better one since the old one was kinda broken UPDATE 11:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC): Added the gallery back with vector images), this was the first picture of Hairbun:
:::[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

:::So, to recap: Hairbun has always had a version with a bun with trailing hair, but it was inconsistent between comics, so I settled on Jill is a girl that always has trailing hair and Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.

:::On the topic of renaming Jill:
:::*I searched the wiki for Jill and found 3 discussions. One of them ended up "why world we even create a page for that girl, there aren't many comics featuring her.", but didn't criticize the name too much iirc
:::*We did the same thing for [[Danish]]. The only time she was given ''any'' name ("Danish in the sense of "darling" iirc), that was the name used.
:::*If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.
:::*I'm not sure about this, but I think she's slowing being added more and more outside science comics.

:::Wow this was long --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

== In reply to [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2794:_Alphabet_Notes&curid=26437&diff=321127&oldid=320916 this query]... ==

There's {{w|Welsh orthography|the Welsh}}, at the very least! (Well, you did ask! Even if it's truly not so relevent. ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.159|172.70.86.159]] 11:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
:Lol. TIL! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

== Plural animals ==

Following on from Ferret->Ferrets, what about the last remaining singular that is Category:Apatosaurus? (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin, as worthy as they often are, but this seems like the next logical step that I thought you might have done to finish that particular neatening job.) But I'll leave it up to you as to whether it's Apatosauruses, Apatosaurii or whatever else you might consider most appropriate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.98|172.70.85.98]] 10:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
:I actually thought about it, and I came to the conclusion that I don't know what the plural of that word is. Feel free to research if there's a "right" word and rename that category :)
:> (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin,
:Yeah I don't really organize everything I want to change beforehand, so whenever i notice a little thing is missing, I add it to every page that needs it. I guess it's easier to review my edits in bulk from a page's version history lol --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

== Username ==
I spotted a spam-like user named "Papyrus". [[User:ChristmasGospel|ChristmasGospel]] ([[User talk:ChristmasGospel|talk]]) 21:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
:Interesting, i edited that comic's page yesterday. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
== Community portal spam ==
The spammers seem to be deleting text from Community Portal. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 07:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks, but I couldn't find any recent example concerning me. Do you mind giving an example? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Possible Adminship? ==

Hi FaviFake, I’m Victoria. I’m planning on reaching out to Jeff via Twitter/X because there’s a long list of things that only he can do. You can see the list at my [[User:42.book.addict#To_Do_List_for_Jeff|user page]]. One of these tasks is promoting more admins. Seeing as you are quite active, and have done quite a lot of edits (top 10 in CS score-wow!), would you like to be mentioned in my message as a possible admin candidate? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: Oh hey, thanks for messaging me! I started caring a lot for this site about a year ago, went on a complete pause for a few months, and came back this week. You seem very active, love to see some new active users! I saw your message on the community portal saying you were trying to find a way to contact Jeff. That's actually something I've thought about doing for a long time but never actually tried since not even Davidy22 was able to contact him at one point iirc.
:Anyway, yes, I'd love to be an admin for this site since there are so many things I can't do as a user (i have my own to-do list, which includes 1) actually deleting pages in Pages to delete and 2) improving/fixing the comic templates and Main page).
: So yeah, I wish you good luck contacting him! My only advice is to use any possible way to (or to get someone else to) contact him without worrying too much about annoying him. His last contribution was more than a year ago, he can totally jump back in for a moment after being unreachable for so long. I really like your message, it's very well-written, now the hard part is getting it to him. Asking Davidy22 for his email address (or finding it online) sounds like a great idea to me. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Trivia below transcript ==
The FAQ page says that trivia is below transcript. I'm very sorry about this. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 00:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:Nono don't be sorry, you're totally right! I came back here after months of being offline and forgot about the order! I realised my mistake yesterday but didn't have the time to go look for the article to revert my edit. Please revert it if you get the chance to do it before me. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::There, I should've fixed it now. I see you also reverted my edit, thanks! [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== On the Ghosts in the NavPane ==

When I saw 42's inclusion of Ghosts in the Character NavPane, I was pondering asking for Demons and Aliens (the blob-monster types, or near variations, from both UFO-ish comics and far-future) to be added alongside.

But I agree with you that they're not ''really'' minor characters. Yet I think they (all of them) deserve a slot there, as they are as much a feature as the (Animals/)Squirrels section. Originally thought to suggest "Groups" (could include "Multiple Cueballs" and even "Children" for groups with otherwise un-IDed child characters), which you could still ''also'' add (but for human-character groups only), but now thinking "Other Beings" could hold Ghosts, Demons and Aliens (maybe "Future Beings" separate from the latter, or at least the differently-futuristic "Floating Orbs" as ''another'' other classification category in there). As a section between Real People and Animals, I thought, unless it's decided best to put them after Animals.

Food for thought, anyway. You (and 42, and maybe others) may have your own ideas on this, and I wouldn't (and can't) spring my own ideas upon you by suddenly just editing the appropriate source. It probably needs discussion. I nearly put my earlier thoughts in the Community Portal area, but as you're personally active on this at the moment I thought it might be easier for you to ponder if I finally commited it to writing just here. (Feel free to move this contrib/advertise it wider, if you see fit.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 14:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:Just popping in to add my 2 cents-I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having “other beings” in the navbox. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 16:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
::Hey there, thanks a lot for messaging me about this. I disagree with you for one specific reason: the navbox was initially supposed to catalogue the recurring characters in the comics which displayed more or less the same behaviours across comics, such as [[Black Hat]] and [[Beret Guy]]. It then expanded to include real people, such as politicians, which still remained the same characters across different comics. The animal section is different in that some of them are the same animals across comics (such as bobcats and red spiders, for example), but since we had to include them, we included EVERY animal, even when they were completely different every time, because it'd look weird if the only animals there were the specific ones i mentioned.
::If we included a section such as Other beings that includes ghosts, I believe it would be filled with characters that are not the same in every comic they appear in and the navbox would completely lose its intended purpose. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

== (Whoops, forgot a header!) ...FYC ==

If you agree with {{diff|356369|these additions/changes}}, with or without other adjustments, I was wondering if you'd like to do the respective changes to the Incomplete Article category page, as I find it's semi-protected and I'm thus locked out from the edits that I thought I might duplicate there too (in my IP state – yes, I know I could change this, but I'm happier just to leave it up to you/whoever). Anyway, for your consideration. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.75|162.158.202.75]] 17:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
: Done! Thanks. I removed a few technical details. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

==The [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project==
''The messages regarding the [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project have been moved to '''[[Talk:What If? chapters]]'''. To add a new topic regarding the index, [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:What_If?_chapters&action=edit&section=new click here].'' --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removed "Discussion" super-header. ==

I had wondered, as (at that time) you hadn't bothered to remove any of the ''other'' equivalent super-headers. It looked a bit like an accidental select-and-cut, like sometimes editors do, given your actual edit was waaay down the other end of the page. (It was a bit too neat, not like the usual case of somehow snipping off just one of the "="s, make a =="header"== into a ="header="=, effectively, but I've also seen similarly unmessy accidents happen, so your decent tightening up of the whitespace could have just as easily been a part of the same misclicking.)

I did check the companion pages, and they were all happyily as they (once) were. Note that the extra level of header ''does'' have use for (e.g.) putting a similar level of header at the bottom to give Archive, FAQ, etc, sections (not part of the now-top-levelisted points), or even such that we can have "for <foo>, see <otherPortal#section>" to gather things up with less repeats. Not to have their own subheaders (unless they, too, get so large that we have to further split them!), but to be seperate-but-appended like a Transcript (and maybe Trivia) section, regardless of how subheadered an in-depth Explanation gets. If we ever get that (and, really, we could do with a ''lot'' of archival for most of the Community Pages, and maybe some FAQing, for which I ''might'' suggest a subheadering to easily scan for... e.g. ... the situation with the MathML that seems to get revisited more often than not), then we probably need the superheaders back, unless we put messy indented-bullet-trees (at the top? with or without "expand"-hiding?) ''only'' for non-discussion items.

Not that I totally agree that "1.<many...>" (and the occasional "1.<something>.<subsubitem>" was unreadable, either, but ''so long'' as we don't have a further main(ish) header, of equal import, then ''maybe'' it's ok to do it your way. Just it seemed like a big decision to make, to cut out all the (admitedly untaken) options out of the equation. ...And that is a summary of the mental arithmatic whizzing through my head when I had decided (on balance) that you'd probably just made an unknowing misedit that needed bringing back in line with the others. Just to explain the snap decision to undo your 'accident'. Not sure whether you'd been purposefully thinking about it for far longer, of course. Maybe even a couple of minutes! ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.58|172.71.178.58]] 14:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:I totally agree with everything you said! One day I noticed there was a useless superheader at the top which was making the TOC unnecessarily slightly harder to scan through. We should definitely bring it back if someone decides to organise the portals, but I figured since it was untouched for more than a decade, it's likely it won't happen in the near future. There was no need to explain the reasoning behind your revert, but I appreciate you reaching out! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:06, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

==A simple Thank-you==
Thank you so much for expanding my knowledge of xkcd, the wiki, and wikis overall. That user page creation left a bit of a mark on me lol. I have found out that I have reached a high enough level to create user pages. I have created 2 user pages and 2 discussion pages for other worthy members of the community. Thank you for the very helpful advice, and thanks again for providing helpful information from the community. Sincerely, [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 05:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! I'm glad we have another active contributor <3   --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:09, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
::It's relevant to note that we only create User pages when people explicitly ask for them. On the other hand, '''User talk''' pages are created if you want to talk to that specific member privately. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removing references to order of LiveJournal comics ==

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1%3A_Barrel_-_Part_1&type=revision&diff=320394&oldid=320342 But WHY?] 
I'm very unhappy to realize you have deleted my hard work giving people a possibility to click through the first comics in the order they where released on livejournal. I have not checked them all, but I'm not happy that it has been deleted and would like to get it back. Pleas try to explain why you found it a good idea to remove this info from so many comics! I'm quite upset about it at the moment. And since you removed it would like you to restore it if you cannot make me see why! Seems there is also more info I put in that have been deleted? :-( --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:31, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:You are mistaken! I actually liked the idea of browsing the first comics in the original order ''so much'' that I moved it above the explanation! This means it's now much easier to browse them in the correct order, because the user is no longer required to scroll to the bottom of the page: the links are right below the comic.

:I did this for all the 50ish comics. I think you might also have missed the "Original title" and "Original caption" parts of these first comics. In every one of these comics, right under the title (above the image) there's an "Original title". Likewise, below every Title text there's now an "Original caption" part, which contains the LiveJournal caption. See for example comics [[4: Landscape (sketch)]] or [[8: Red spiders]]. I also added a link to the specific LiveJournal post both on the title and caption parts, so users can see them for themselves. Your hard work no longer sits in the hidden Trivia section, but is actually above everything else and easier to read and use!

:I do think it's still not perfect, especially part to browse the comics. I'd like to create a custom template with real buttons (not just links) and an actual explanation of the situation, or maybe integrate it directly into the {{tl|comic}} template. But still, a much better solution than putting everything in the last section! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::I'm sorry for the harsh words. Late that night I realized all my trivia info was deleted (did see the original title text was added), but did not realize that the info was relegated to a more prominent place. So I take back my comment, and instead now thank you for improving my work. Hope you accept this apology from a message written at a bad time. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:58, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Of course! You were very polite. I'm glad you're still active in this wiki :) --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Me to, so there at least is one active admin. Sadly I'm not very good at the tech stuff a<nd also do not have time to look into all kinds of wiki policies... Glad there are others like you who lift the mantle on those parts. We really need a guy like Davidy... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::UPDATE: I moved the sentences above the ==Explanation==, so it should now be clearer. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

== Jill's renaming ==

Hi FaviFake 
Just came around to think about the renaming og Science Girl, that I created, to Jill. I really do not like it, and we do not generally give generic figures a name, Megan and Danish the exceptions. And because she is in a comic based on a children song, the name is clearly from the song not because the generic Science Girl is called Jill. Jill is not even used in the comic, only in the title text. You wrote there where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you. But they are not on the talk page of Science Girls page. I'm seriously considering changing it back, so let me know where these discussions are located. I also think it was a mistake to call Danish, Danish, but it beats calling her Black Hats girlfriend. It was just a nickname he used, and they killed the witness as no one must know... But that was done way before I began editing this page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:21, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey, thanks for your message! I'll respond tomorrow because I don't have time, but for now I just wanted to note somewhere (before I forget) that I looked though all 41 appearances and counted the times where science is the main theme of the comic. The result was that the majority of Jill appearences are not related to science. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::Well I will have to check that but the first instance was included because it was a girl who where interested in science even though she doesn't look like ScienceGirl. And an adult version of her was included because it was science again. The question is of course if there are now a different girl... But I do not like the naming of her. We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob, and there was also someone who did not like Megan. But that I like now. I prefer keeping Danish, but do not like the reason why she got than name. And other generic characters have been given a name in some comics without we used this. And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:26, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::}}
Hey.
And an adult version of her was included because it was science again.
I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but this would actually help my case! "Girl" implies she's either a teenager or a child. This means that, if you wanted to broaden her definition to also include "adult versions", you'd have to use another name. Science Woman? Science Female Charachter? I think Jill is better: it sounds like a name a child would have, but doesn't prevent us from giving the name Jill to adult versions. If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.

We do not generally give '''generic figures''' a name
But I don't think she's a generic figure. In a bit more than a third of the comic appearences, she's specifically interested in science. This, to me, means she's likely the same person on most of the comics. SHe also has a similar behaviour.

Even if that weren't the case, we would still have to find a name for her that's generic enough, that represents her qualities, AND that's not a proper name. Or, we could just call her what Randall called her, "[[Jill]]". There is precendent on this wiki for giving a name to a character based solely on one instance, where the name wasn't even intended: that's [[Danish]]. Even more: Danish was used by Randall as an adjective, but here Randall gave us a proper name!

There where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you.
I didn't say they agreed with me. There was no consensus on all of them, iirc, mainly because few people partecipated. Yes, I remember they weren't on her talk page, which is weird, but they were somewhere else. I remember they were mostly even.

The first instance was included [...] even though she doesn't look like Science Girl
That specific comic is an exception, in all other comics she has a bun with trailing hair. Randall may have drawn a ponytail because of the limited space. Anyways, as I said, the majority of the comics featuring her aren't mainly about science. (Of course, almost all Randall comics relate to science, but I counted comics where it was intented.)

We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob
That's because there was consensus on the fact that Cueball is an everyman, while Rob is the same charachter.

And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song!
Well that's the only mention of her name we have, even if it's unrelated. I like that she was named after a nursery rhyme, it fits her character, since she's a child.

[...] I really do not like it, [...]

[...] I do not like the naming of her. [...]

[...] There was also someone who did not like Megan. But I like [Megan] now. [...]

[...] I really '''feel''' it is wrong to name her after a children song [...]
I'm starting to see a trend here. Do you think it could be possible you're against the name change because you simply... don’t like how it sounds? I didn't like how "Science Girl" sounded, but that's not why I changed her name...

--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:34, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply. Sadly you could not show me any discussion about the name change. Only that you said there where. So that did not help. Yes maybe I used the same wording many time. Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning... What I do not like about Jill and using that comic to name her, is that I do not think that comic at all is representative of the character I had identified and named Science Girl. But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem. I only new her as adult in [[1520: Degree-Off]] and I can see this has been changes, although I believe this should be reverted as this is not hairbun bu Science Girl. I did not know it had been removed. In this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1520:_Degree-Off&oldid=123879 version] she was named Science Girl] but it was removed without my knowing. And that she was an adult version was in this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 version]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::Looking at comics now, and just found this one, without looking for Jill and saw her here: [[2747: Presents for Biologists]]. To me the important thing is the interest in science and that the hairbun is not tight but with strings of hair hanging loose. So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman, often a child with a loose hairbun, not to be3 confused with the generic every woman Hairbun... Then Degree-Off is also clearly Jill. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:56, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::}}
Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning
I'm also not a native speaker, I'm Italian! :D I wasn't pointing out your choice of words but rather what you were trying to say, which is (I think?) that you don't like the name. Anyways:

To me the important thing is the interest in science [...] So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman [...]
It seems your opinion has changed completely then! This is what [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 you wrote] about [[Hairbun]] before I joined this wiki:
''Since she [Hairbun] is a '''grown woman''', she should not be confused with Science Girl or any other '''small girls''' with hair bun like in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]].''
According to this logic in this comic:
* [[1520: Degree-Off]] - taller than other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''
* [[2747: Presents for Biologists]] - as tall as other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''

Also, this would mean we'd have to rename Jill to someone else in a third or a fourth of her appearences.

But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem
I agree! If there's one thing that I think everyone can agreen on is that we shoudn't call a grown woman a "girl". And "Science Woman" sounds like a superhero.

So, to avoid naming Hairbun '''based on how she looks''' and Jill '''based on her displayed interest''' (I'll remind you, you said in Hairbun's page that this is Hairbun:)
[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

...all i did was standardise the matter:
*'''Jill is a child OR girl that always has trailing hair''' (except 1 comic), and
*'''Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.'''

I think any other definition would be incredibly confusing. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:Well I originally put in degree off as Science Girl as she both looked and behaved like Science Girl. So I may have changed my mind. Cannot find the picture you said that I said was Hairbun? Maybe it was from before I introduced Science Girl. I have created both of these characters and then others have changed the explanation and the name. I also called her [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hairbun&oldid=88388 Hair Bun Girl], which I can now see it wrong since she was a woman, but again, not native English. Here is my first creation of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123862 Science Girl]. There where more than a year between, so maybe I changed my mind regarding which could be hairbun in between? I'm certainly more interested in having those characters with hairbun and dangling hair to be another than normal hairbun now. And would today have collected those that looks like that together. Also there are many instances of Jill where she do not have a speaking part, thus saying she is always interested in science doesn't fit with how she is listed now... It is difficult. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oh yeah that makes sense, I didn't consider the fact that Science Jirl was created possibly years after Hairbun. I'm not sure I understood your last sentence, about Jill not speaking? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I think only a year after. But still. I meant that there are several instances with Jill where she do not have a speaking part in the comic, and thus cannot be said to have a special interest in science or her sharp wit. So if science should be her main indicator then she has to say something. But I do not really know how to make this as best as it could be. (Science Jirl, Jirl a combination of Jill and Girl ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

::::It'd be so funny if we settled on Science Jirl haha. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:10, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

== As I can't edit it... ==

Regarding the Editor FAQ:
For headlines, you have to use wiki-style code. The simplest way is a preceding semicolon at the beginning of the line which causes the entire line to be rendered in bold.
...I might be tempted to say something like "This makes use of {{w|Help:Wikitext#Description_lists|Description List}} markup", given how there are circumstances when a ";something:fuller description of something" is also actually useful. And then go on to say something about how this is functionally simpler than the actual (sub-)header use of =s, ==s, ===s, etc, (which you'd be advised to check what 'level' of (sub-)header you're already working in and go for the next level on from that) and would the usually be recorded in a Table Of Contents of either the page concerned or any page which it is transcluded within.

Except that we're going into really ''technical'' territory with the latter bit. Generally, ==s are for Explanation, Transcript, Trivia headers in comics, you could say. (The reason being is that the Main Page has a single-= header under which the Latest Comic is transcluded and so ==s are best to be inherited as transient sub-headers - but you don't need to say that... it's just an obvious reasong behind the stylistic decision.) Headering a section other than these, in a comic (such as a place for a Table Of Things, or similar) would generally be ===ed (or, rarely, ====ed, as a sub-sub-header of the Explanation/whatever). It is best to avoid any ===+ing at all in the Comic Talk page because, if the Comic page itself gets a TOC (some do, most don't, but all ''potentially'' could) then the transcluded Discussion gets (probably!) inadvertently and improperly added in. (You can force a NOTOC, and some other tricks, but I've never been able to find a NOTOCIFTRANSCLUDED-like thing, not without peppering noinclude sections around section headers, which is... getting ''far'' too complicated.) So, just saying "Don't use '==...'s in Talk Pages, stick to ';'s..." (even without the reasoning) might be an advisable statement.

Yeah, I'm giving you a lot of stuff here (I think you know all of it, actually), hopefully you can tease out some of the bits actually useful to suggest in the FAQ. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:52, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Darnit, also meant to add that in the {{template|Citation needed}} explanation you wrote, could you change {{template|actual citation needed}} to {{template|Actual citation needed}}? The latter is the actual template, the former is just a redirect. No harm in ''using'' the redirect-needing ones (generally), but you might as well advertise the correct ones. Like you don't advertise {{template|cn}} or {{template|fact}} (both ->{{template|Citation needed}}, as are {{template|citation needed}}, {{template|Citation Needed}} and other case-accomadating variations), though people still are able to use them. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:58, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:Sorry but you're gonna have to give me exactly what you want me to paste in the article, I haven't understood a word of what you said. I changed the actual cit needed thinghy--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:45, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

==User page creation==
I just wanted to say thanks again for making my user page! --[[User:Xnerkcd|xnerkcd]] ([[User talk:Xnerkcd|talk]]) 17:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:22, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

==Admin==
What does an admin do? Are they just the people that can create pages?
:Not an admin, but they basically manage the wiki state-of-affairs and oversee day-to-day operation. Basically, a stepup from typical moderators. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.208.206|172.69.208.206]]
::I guess that's what they're ''supposed'' to do. Because of the status quo, they just sometimes pop back in and do stuff we can't. We can however create pages ourselves. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:46, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

== A Barnstar For You :3 ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2|}}}|alt|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 3.PNG|100px|border]]|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 2.PNG|100px|border]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Template Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for all of your work on improving the templates on here! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 20:01, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks so much! But [[User:Firestar233]] definitely deserves that award more than I do! He created the templates for the what if? index that are still incredibly useful! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:31, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

==Restructuring [[Header text]] as a table==

"yeah, best not suggest that..." - 162.158.216.41

"Nobody is ever going to do that by hand." - FaviFake

Let's just say.... [[Countdown in header text]] was just a warm-up.

bet. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:Oh jeez no way. No way man. That'd be incredible. And insane. hahaha
:But seriously, if you really want to do this, feel free to shoot me a message! [[Header text]] is a huge beast, and I think we could even redesign it completely like what if. Imagine a huge table, sortable by date, comic number, alphabetical order of header text, with a ton of templates to manage...
:Ok the last one isn't tempting. But seriously we could turn it into the most beautiful list of header texts the world has ever seen! I'm already excited! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::I already got the first header text done! The table idea sounds super fun though. I'm on board. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Shoot you were so fast i didn't even see it! Ok we need to seriously think about it now. A few questions come to mind:
:::#How many columns (date, ? What are all the possible things we can display in a useful way that are common to every header text?
:::##How do we handle the section titles? We should definitely use a template to keep the <nowiki>[[#Anchor links]]</nowiki>, but should we keep the ad-hoc section titles?
:::#How many tables? Two tables for comic specific and general changes, or just 1 mega table?
:::#We definitely need a template to mimic the all caps font that Randall uses. Ideas for what else it could do (like contain parts of the table code, color the cell background...)?
:::#Would it be useful if some columns were color-coded? Like on what if? ("back to standard text", "what if promotion", "xkcd store updates", ...)?
:::I have so many questions! If anyone who's reading or watchlisted this talk page wants to chime in and suggest anything at all please do! I'll go sleep now, I guess we'll organise tomorrow? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Sounds good. Date as a column probably won't work because of stuff like permanence. 'Timeframe'(e.g. temporary/permanent) could work though. I guess it could look something like this for comic-specific:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Comic !! Timeframe !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}
::::And this could be used for the global headers:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Date !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}

::::I think we should do two tables, with a small blurb before each one explaining what 'comic-specific' means. For the global header text, 'timeframe' could be replaced with 'date'. Color-sorting does sound good (that would be what the column 'purpose' does).
::::'comic' would just be like '2916: Machine'. 'Header text' is just what the text says. 'Explanation' is self-explanatory. 'Purpose' documents the reason.
::::For the color codes, we could do 'book promotion', 'Store updates', 'Credits' (e.g. The supporter credits on the April Fools' Comics), maybe fundraisers, he's done those.
::::I made a test table, with most of the wikitext taken from the what if chapters table and the help:table article on Wikipedia [[Testing area | here]]
::::Have a good night! [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Oh and also I got another one done heehee [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:27, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Nummer tree dun. I made a little test table so we can experiment with it without putting it on the actual page ([[Testing area | over here!]][[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Hey this is great! I'll reply tomorrow cuz I don't have time now but it seems to me you might be deleting some stuff that's actually worth keeping. For example, in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=next&oldid=374464 this] and [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=prev&oldid=374464 this edit] I thought most of the info you removed could be useful. But as i said i don't have much time, I'll read and reply tomorrow. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:19, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yeah these columns sound good! We could also add "Comic" to the global one, to mark which comic was up when it changed. We should definitely use a template for Comic, so we can link to the explanation, create an automatic #Anchor link tag, and also link to xkcd.com to view the header. It could be the same template, and the first parameter switches between the "global header text" (1) and the "comic-specific header text" (2) modes.
::::::I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former. Does this sound good Dollar?
::::::I removed the rewritten ones and moved them to the testing page to avoid losing info. If we want to do what we did for what if?, we have to use another page until it's ready. I told Kynde about this page to let her know, since she's the main contributor on [[Header text]]. Here's what I imagine it could look like:

::::::This would be for '''comic-specific''':
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Timeframe
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
| [[472: House of Pancakes]] {{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}} || Permanent || (Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.) || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || || {{Yes}} ||
|}

::::::And this could be used for the '''global headers''':
This is for comic-specific:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Appeared on...
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
|| 01-01-2009 || {{xkcd|472|''View archived page of the header text''}} (This global header appeared while [[123: Example comic]] was up.) || Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available! || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || {{Yes}} || ||
|}

::::::The first 3 collumns (except Timeframe and Appeared on) would use a custom-made template which would only need (1) the number: Name of the comic and (2) the header text to make it look all caps. Thoughts?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::This looks great! Good job with the font, looks incredible! It does seem to me that maybe we could shorten the 'purpose' category into one column, with different fill colors for different purposes. That way, the cell would contain the purpose instead of the word 'yes'. Also, the purpose would be in the cell instead of the headers. The tables are super long, especially with global headers, so the purpose being there would prevent people from needing to scroll all the way to the top to figure out which category it is. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Yeah you're right that'd be too long. But if we do that idk how people will be able to sort tha table? Is there a better way that keeps sorting and is compact? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:08, 24 April 2025 (UTC)]

::::::::I wonder if there's a way to sort by color? That way they could sort by book promotion/store promotion etc. first? [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:24, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::You can't sort by non-content formatting of any kind ''per se'', but if you use [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables#Specifying_a_sort_key a data-sort-value=] alongside the cell's pre-content formatting, associated to it either by (careful) manual matching or by the same procedural method that procedurally set the background hue, then that column can be made to sort ''as if'' by colour. e.g., whatever makes a cell red also gives it <code>data-sort-value=0</code>, whatever makes it green gives <code>=1</code>, etc. (Though would be good to further refine the value, in such a case, to be integer+decimals, such that the decimals produce a further logical sorting ''within'' any given run of hue, if that is in any way more logical than not worrying about it.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.130|141.101.99.130]] 17:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Alternatively, we could make it so everything is shown in one unsortable column, but it could expand into multiple sortable columns like the graphs you made. I will also say that I absolutely suck at basi--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)cally any wikitext more advanced than creating a table. This is the reason it depends whether I do the repetitive work. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:28, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I'm gonna start to bring explanations over and add them to the table on the sandbox page. The project continues! --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]] 18:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh ok you're just going for it! I wanted to make sure everything was ready and decided before starting, just so we don't have to lose our work if we change our minds later! For example, I'm not really sure what "permanent" and temporary means for the comic specific?
:::::::::Also, I thought of something for the sorting of purpose. We could use extremely narrow columns, just one letter, and also colorthe cell? And for clarity we could say "C<nowiki> </nowiki>R" instead of the full "credits" to avoid wasting space? Like the one in [[1608:_Hoverboard#Table_with_references]]? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:53, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::'Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release, while 'temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header. I think the narrow columns are a good idea, but I don't really see where they would be used. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 03:38, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::::::::::}}
Hmm.

> ''Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release.

This i understand; makes sense! Maybe could be reworded.

> ''temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header.

I'm not sure I understand this? Don't comic-specific header texts (let's call them CS from now on) never expire? I thought they overrode the global headers (GL).

Anyways, still awaiting input from Kynde on this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi... Was alerted to this by FaviFake.
:Yes it is my baby, anything with the design of the xkcd page was made by me to begin with. And I have done a huge job finding the different regular header text in the archive.
:I do think a table could be good. However, the current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult. Also there are quite a lot of info for some of these header text, and it could be hard to get into the table.
:I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table. And it will fill quite a lot in the table.
:I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section. Question is if they should have their own page. So there is Header Text (the current page) with a link to a new page with Permanent Header texts.
:Not sure there are many individual header text that was not permanent. So I think the permanent column is not needed, especially since I do not think we should mix the permanent with the real header text! But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
:For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
:Not quite sure what we would sort on... But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
:I'm not going to help with the actual work of moving to a table. But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:47, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::''(i wrote this response before Dollar and IP commented.)''
::Thank you!
::> ''The current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult.
::This is true, but this can easily be fixed using a template. For example, if you go to [[What If? chapters#123]] right now, the link will bring you directly to the table row for #123, even though there isn't a heading! The same is true if you use the name of the article, like [[What If? chapters#Cassini]] brings you to "Cassini". The only downside is that we would have to manually keep the TOC up-to-date (or maybe there could be a way to automate that too? But i doubt it.)

::>'' I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table.
::Yeah that would definitely not be removed. We can either add the transcript at the bottom of the explanation or make another column, it depends on how many headers have a transcript, I haven't looked.

::>'' I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section.
::>'' I think the permanent column is not needed
::>'' But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
::1: Agree, 2: agree, and 3: defintely! Luckily the way you formatted the dates (YYYY-MM-DD) is already perfect for sorting, and they're already hyperlinked too!
::> ''For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
::Yeah I had forgotten about this! The <nowiki>{{date}}</nowiki> template could look something like this:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
!Date
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23] (during [[1398: Snake Facts]]) until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01] (during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|}

::> ''But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
::Yeah you're right, I think we might end up going for this. As you said, we should give the explanation enough space.

::> ''But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it.
::Thank you! As I said previously, I wanted to shift the focus from removing the bullet points to reorganising the info and leaving the existing te there for now:
:::''"If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."''

::So i guess this is the new proposed design?

:::::: '''Comic-specific''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" |Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
!Purpose
|-
|[https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]
[[472: House of Pancakes]]
{{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}}
|(Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.)
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #aa55a5;" | Credits
|}

:::::: '''Global headers''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" | Purpose
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23] {{nowrap|(during [[1398: Snake Facts]])}} until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01] (during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available!
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #ccffcc;" |Store promotion
|}

::We could add a number column to show how many times it has changed?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:07, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I reply here to the above. It is very difficult to find out what I was replying to if I put it in ath the end. The next message and many below written before this:
:::I like the idea from you table. But you missed the release date on the permanent. Still think that is important.
:::I was also thinking of two columns for start and end, but your idea my be fine. Could it be easy to add the number of days the header have been up then?
:::What will the number represent? We do not have the first, and we do not have the last... Unless it is automatic numbering, so the newest is number 1 and the rest gets higher automatic, like in a bullet list, I think it will make no sense?
:::My input to the above --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Don't worry, this page is already a mess. Yes, I forgot the release date! I guess we'll put it above the comic in the column "Comic", since the order is the same if we sort by date or by comic number. I also thought about two columns for start and end, but I figured it wouldn't really make sense because the sorting would be the same. Plus, by using just one column we save horizontal space! We can definitely add the duration, that'll be another parameter in the template.
::::Yeah you have a good point, the number column wouldn't make sense. I removed it. But we might need another column: where do we put the current heading that appear in the TOC? Should we add another column? If so, where would we put that column? I hadn't thought about this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Not always the same with number vs date, as at least one of the comics did not get the permanent text when released. But it may not be that important.
:::::Yes what to do for the heading I have given the different headers...? The number you suggested may not have worked, but in the header bullet lidt it is nice to be able to see there are 110 (3 of which are placeholders, so 107 changes documented) and also the number of permanent individial headers. (23). That info would be lost in a table. I think it is not possible to move into a table without loosing info. Also it will be much more difficult to add new info, as you have to edit the whole table, rater than now, just the post above or below the one you wish to enter a new header. It would be a massive page to edit. I know it is nice to be able to sort, but it will be difficult or even impossible for someone to add new thing to it... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:53, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes, as I said we would have to update the TOC manually, but it would still be these in some form. We would simply use # to create a numbered list, which would keep the number of total headers. So it wouldn't be lost. Also, editing the table wouldn't be that difficult in my opinion, you'd just have to fill the templates, something like this:

! Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF? - preorder

| <nowiki>{{Date| 2024-05-15 | 2933: Elementary Physics Paths | 2024-10-15 | 2998: Ravioli-Shaped Objects}}</nowiki>

| {{Header text| Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF?—revised and annotated with brand-new illustrations and answers to important questions. Preorder now!

| The first link goes to the page for the what if? book on xkcd and the other link is to the HarperCollins page for the 10th anniversary edition of the book, rest of the explanation...

|<nowiki> {{What If promotion}}</nowiki>

::::::Also, I just realised we could just put the title you gave in the very first column, before the date! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::You do have a good point there. Actually, all of these are good points. Maybe we could take out the 'timeframe' column for the CS table and replace it with 'start and end date' for the GL table. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 13:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::Not that I'm taking any part in this conversion (excelt for giving ideas, when they occur to me), but how about: Table has one (small) column contents act as an #anchor-link to the appropriate extended header-defined information below. The beauty (YMMV) of the tabular/sortable overview being developed whilst retaining the table-incompatible "long descriptive" bits (perhaps with a similar back-anchor to the table-rows so that a minimal amount of table-worthy detail need be included in the long-header.
::And though that ''could'' be done with "[a], [b], [c]" or "[n1], [n2], [n3]" inbuilt wiki-references, I think maybe just plain <code><nowiki>[[#itemFoo|Foo]]</nowiki></code> sort of thing for the Comic or Purpose cell contents. If that works well within a collapsing text area, that might make it available (but not obtrusive to the casual view). Or perhaps send it to a <code>Header text/fuller descriptions]]</code>-ish new sub-page.
::This ''does'' mean a bit more to remember if updating with new instances (add 'line' to table ''and'' add at least a placeholder into the headered paragraphs, not just one or the other) but that much might be made more obvious as a reminder (to those who 'know') or a guide (to newer editors) by a commented out row+paragraph template at the end of each.
::Or is it unfair of me to complicate things further by essentially suggesting both approaches to be carried forward..? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.186|172.70.85.186]] 14:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Sorry but I didn't understand any of that. What are you suggesting? For the missing TOC problem, I thought we would solve it by using a template to create an HTML anchor, and then manually creating the TOC. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:11, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Do you need it explained longer, or shorter..?
::::Trying (mostly) shorter: Retain "TOC"ed version (additional: though not ''necessarily'' still TOCed, could be redone as ";"ed, instead of "==...=="ed — we don't need any TOC list, 'cos the table will do that), but without most of the repeating short info you're putting into the table. Don't have huge "Details" column, just bare bones. But #anchor-link each entry to the longer-form original sections in their more prosaic forms. So you've a table that's not too busy, but all the hard-won case study info is also elsewhere, just not clogging up the table itself.
::::The rest of what I said was a lot of optional mini-variations of this general idea. Because TIMTOWTDI. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.34|141.101.98.34]] 16:32, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::: Now I understand! Usually a good way to read your comments is to just mentally remove all parenthesis, but it didn't work this time. I don't really think the text is so much that we have to link to it? The example above is the average length (is much shorter when you remove the bullet points), and it doesn't seem to take up much space.

::::: Sounds pretty good! I'm just going to continue getting more texts summarized and ported over to the sandbox, because I have no idea how to use wikitext more advanced than tables and <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> and <nowiki></nowiki>. I am trying to learn <nowiki></nowiki> though. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 17:23, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Wait, I thought we were ''not'' doing that? I wrote the message below and I thought you agreed, but I must've misread your response. Here's the relevant part:
::::::: ''"I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and read (and to sort, as a bonus), I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."
::::::In short, I think we would make the page much more useful if, instead of using grammatically correct sentences, we simply reorganised it and chenged how it looks. I think this is a huge enough task already, and I think it would benefit the wiki more than rewriting everything. Thoughts? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::To be clear, I already have a perfectly good way of removing all bullet points in less than a minute. The downside is, of course, that the paragraphs would be impossible to read: not because the sentences aren't coherent but because they're not organised. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|:::::::}}

{{Header text|I've created a template that makes any text look like a header text, to kickstart the project. It's called {{tl|Header text}}. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:45, 28 April 2025 (UTC)}}
:I shall unleash my american-ness on your incomprehensible British intellect to say: HELL YEAH, BROTHER!!!!!!! --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al |'''''Converse''''']][[DSBContribs |'''''My life choices''''']] 19:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::Also, yeah you're right. Maybe you could take out all the bullets and I can make them more coherent and add them. But why are we keeping the text Kynde wrote? Isn't the entire point of this project to replace that with something more coherent? --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al |'''''Converse''''']][[DSBContribs |'''''My life choices''''']] 19:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:::(Kindly change your signature to comply with {{w|WP:SIGAPP}}.) That was the initial goal, yes, but I believe our efforts would benefit the wiki much more if we made it easy to browse the page. And, in a sense, we would still edit her messages, by moving the date, comic, and HT text to different columns. I just think it's much easier than rewriting everything: what's the point of making every sentence follow grammatical rules if reading the page is as uninteresting as it is now? As I said previously, we could try to pursue the initial goal after the page is tuned into a table, if we still have the strength to keep going.

:::The reason I haven't yet removed every bullet is because they're needed to understand what is the {{Header text|actual header text}} and what is the explanation for said HT. My plan is that, once a HT explanation is inserted into the table, then I'll remove the bullet points because they'll no longer be needed. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 12:57, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

== So, the HiddenCat..? ==

You do seem pleased that it works, but I can't work out what you've done by it (presuming it has effects upon a different page). And slightly worried by the additional redlinked category that the page now has. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.229.161|172.68.229.161]] 19:31, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:Sure. See {{mw|Help:Categories#Hidden_categories}}. I only applied it for the new All pages and the old All comics cats. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:13, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:Solved the redlink (non-)issue by un-redlinking it (aka creating the cat). --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:55, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

::Still less than wise as to what ''problem'' it solves, but I'm just happy that you're happy. ;)
::Also "The categories that a page is in are normally listed at the bottom of the page." I'd have written as "The categories that a page are in are normally listed at the bottom of the page.", to match "categories=>are" ''or'' "Each category that a page is in is normally listed at the bottom of the page." to force "category=>is" agreement- but maybe that's a UK-English v.s. US-English thing. (Or just my particular regional sub-dialect of English (quite near me there's a place where "we was" and "I was" are considered 'correct' and another where "we were" and "I were" are, so there's easily room for such confusion, even though I'm a "we were" and "I was" person myself). Or just me be entirely mistaken about something!) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.187|172.68.205.187]] 20:52, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

2571: Hydraulic Analogy

2025-04-27T00:28:19Z

172.68.205.187: Undo revision 375329 by 172.71.211.26 (talk) Why delete all that?

{{comic
| number = 2571
| date = January 21, 2022
| title = Hydraulic Analogy
| image = hydraulic_analogy.png
| titletext = Current (water) running through the water (wires) causes it to boil, increasing the pressure (voltage), but resisting (impeding) the flow of hydroelectricity (water currents). This is the basis for Ohm's law.
}}

==Explanation==
Electric flow is [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvp_a_JkD2o commonly represented] by a "{{w|hydraulic analogy}}". In this analogy, the water pressure represents {{w|voltage}} and the flow of the water is the {{w|electric current|current}}. {{w|Electric resistance}} is represented by a constricted section of a pipe.

[[Miss Lenhart]] is teaching a class and starts to explain this analogy when [[Cueball]] suddenly has an idea and changes her diagrams - connecting the electrical diagram and the hydraulic diagram. In doing this, he has envisioned what comes to be called a "liquitricity device", combining liquid water and electric current flows together and given a suitably {{w|portmanteau}} title.

The last panel shows that Miss Lenhart and Cueball eventually receive the {{w|Nobel Prize}}, presumably the {{w|Nobel Prize in Physics}}, for the design ''and construction'' of the device - indicating that rather than being purely theoretical it has actually been practical to make this device.

The title text 'explains' how this device works and references {{w|Ohm's Law}}, one of the fundamental laws of electricity, but strangely seems as much an incomprehensible mix of the two as the diagram in explaining whatever form of {{w|Wave–particle duality|possible duality}} it actually employs.

[[Randall]] already mixed water flow and circuit diagrams over 10 years ago: one of the [[Footer comics|footer comics]], [[730: Circuit Diagram]], displays a ''very complex'' circuit diagram. Although no pump or direct water flow can be found here, it all ends up in a beaker with holy water. And there is a symbol labeled 3 liters, at the bottom close to the beaker. This is the symbol for an orifice or flow restriction used on plumbing or hydraulic diagrams.

==Transcript==
:[Miss Lenhart stands next to a white board with two diagrams while pointing to the first. While she is explaining Cueball interrupts her from off-panel as seen by his voice coming from the right side out of a starburst on the panels edge. The diagrams are a schematic circuit diagram and a water flow diagram. There is a battery (with labels on top and bottom) on the left and a resistor on the right of the circuit as well as labels on each of these and one at the top part of the wire. There is a pump to the left and a tighter section of the pipe to the right, as well as labels on these and on the top part of the pipe. At the bottom there is two arrow pointing in towards the pipe, this also has a label.]
:Miss Lenhart: Electric current is like water flowing in a pipe. The pressure represents-
:Cueball [off-panel]: Wait, hold on.
:Labels on circuit: + - V I R
:Labels on flow diagram: Pump F R D

:[The view changes so Miss Lenhart and the white board are seen from the side. She still stands next to the white board, arms now down, as Cueball approaches the board with a marker held in one hand. The diagrams can still be seen, but distorted from being viewed from the side, and no labels are readable.]
:Cueball: Do you mind if I just...

:[Zoom in on Cueball, who is drawing on the white board, which is the left edge of the panel, i.e. not visible in the panel. Noises from the marker drawing on the board comes up from the tip of the marker pen. The movement of the pen is indicated with small lines on either side.]
:''Scribble''
:''Scribble''
:''Scribble''

:[Miss Lenhart and Cueball, holding the marker pen down, stand on either side of the white board looking at Cueball's version with the merged diagram. He has connected the two, so instead of the wire going down after the resistor in the circuit diagram, it now is connected with water flowing to the right just below the resistor, and then up into the pump to the right of the resistor. At the bottom where the water pipe before bent up into the pump, the water now continues running to the left (the pipe was not drawn around it by Cueball), and it now flows where the bottom part of the wire, from the circuit, was before, turning up below the battery and connecting with it there. All the labels from before have been retained as follows.]
:Labels on diagram: + - V I R Pump F R D

:[Miss Lenhart and Cueball stand on a podium with a Cueball-like presenter. The presenter is holding two Nobel Prize medals up in his hands. He is holding them from the strings they are attached to, so the medals hang below his hands.]
:Presenter: And for the design and construction of the liquitricity device, the Nobel Prize goes to...

==Trivia==
This was the sixth comic to come out after the [[Countdown in header text]] started.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Miss Lenhart]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Nobel Prize]]
[[Category:Portmanteau]]