explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:356: Nerd Sniping

2023-02-07T23:21:31Z

172.70.211.90: indentation of replies, remove rude comment. also there's an unsigned comment after UribuSelvagem's that may be incomplete

Just because the problem contains an infinite series (or parallel) doesn't mean that it's unsolvable. It's tricky, certainly, and getting the "true" answer involves some rather heavy math, but it's not impossible. Indeed, Google shows that it's already been answered. [[Special:Contributions/76.122.5.96|76.122.5.96]] 20:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I've always had an issue with this problem for one simple reason. In an infinite set of resistors, there is no space to apply a charge, thus there is no resistance. Ohm's law states Resistance = Voltage / I(current). So, in a system where there is no current (creating a divide by zero error), and there is no voltage (no change in electron work capacity, because we don't have a way to excite the electrons, because there is no power) Resistance is incalculable. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:22, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
:We live in 3 dimensions, just place a battery above the grid with wires going to the 2 points. --[[Special:Contributions/84.197.34.154|84.197.34.154]] 22:59, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
::Not everybody does... --[[Special:Contributions/85.159.196.14|FlatlandDweller]] 11:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
::: baDumpBump! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.89|172.68.142.89]] 16:22, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
::I believe the OP is referencing the issue that an infinite circuit could not hold a current. Connecting a battery would only work for a finite grid. In addition, the orientation of the battery in physical space has no relation to its behavior in a circuit, only the points of connection matter. Think about what the battery is doing to generate a current. How does electric potential apply over an infinite grid? Even moving it through a magnetic field won't work as the flux will be uniform across each cross section. You can't rotate an infinite grid either...{{unsigned|Flewk}}
: This is an idealized version of the general problem of determining the resistance between two points in a volume of some material. Like, say, two electrode tips in a liquid electrolyte? Getting a mathematically exact solution in this situation requires integrating over an infinity of paths, even when the liquid volume is finite. Add in the fact that there are no perfect insulators, and you'll have to consider arbitrarily long paths, too. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.15|162.158.203.15]] 03:46, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

:Just crocodidoodle the battery to the pencil lines as and where required for an infinity of varieteediddly.[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 18:51, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

This problem is "unsolvable" only if you try to just use the basic methods for finite networks.
There is a page on this at [http://mathpages.com/home/kmath668/kmath668.htm http://mathpages.com/home/kmath668/kmath668.htm] that reports that the cited points have a resistance of '''4/pi - 1/2''' ohms (.773234... ohms).
The 1/2 ohm resistance between adjacent nodes is actually well known.
[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 05:05, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

:Solution here as well: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/news/2004-10-13/google/ [[User:Potie15|Potie15]] ([[User talk:Potie15|talk]]) 03:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Nowhere it is said that the problem is unsolvable, just that it is interesting. Of course, the sniping is more effective if the problem is also difficult to solve, because otherwise the victim would get over it quickly. [[User:Dargor17|Dargor17]] ([[User talk:Dargor17|talk]]) 17:47, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

That method for parallel resistors is wrong. You don't divide resistances by the number of paths, you sum the reciprocals and then take the reciprocal of that. The method described only works if every resistor has the same value. While that's true in this problem, it's misleading to pass that off as a method that works for all cases. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.60|173.245.55.60]] 03:32, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Good point. I made some slight alterations to clarify that we are assuming the resistors are equal. It seems a better solution than getting into the more complex version of the problem. --[[User:BlueMoonlet|BlueMoonlet]] ([[User talk:BlueMoonlet|talk]]) 12:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

The real question is: why did the physicist cross the road? --[[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 00:53, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Amazing. From the first comment the discussion is diverted from discussing the comic, to discussing the problem presented in the comic. The commentators have been nerd sniped by a demonstration of nerd sniping. Randall is just that good. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.86|108.162.216.86]] 17:55, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

"Sniping" might also be a pun or have a deliberately dual meaning in this context, referring to both a sniper and a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snipe_hunt snipe hunt] (do kids still practice the latter?). The former makes sense if Black Hat's purpose is to actually rid the world of physics and math nerds (consistent with his characteristic misanthropy and cynicism), but the latter also fits the theme of merely distracting a nerd with an impossible task, which the title text suggests may have been Randall's motivation for the strip. (On a side note, the Wikipedia article reveals that the terms sniper and snipe hunt have a common origin, which makes twice in the last month it's resolved a long-standing etymological puzzle for me. The other case united the multiple, seemingly unrelated meanings of minute <nowiki>["tiny" vs. time]</nowiki> and second <nowiki>[ordinal vs. time]</nowiki>; see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexagesimal#Notation sexagesimal].) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.182|173.245.54.182]] 01:40, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

:I've been led to believe that 'minute' means 'tiny amount of time', 'second' is 'secondary tiny amount of time', and , I quote "Real snipe (a family of shorebirds) are difficult to catch for experienced hunters, so much so that the word "sniper" is derived from it to refer to anyone skilled enough to shoot one." from the snipe hunt wiki page. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.4|141.101.104.4]] 23:45, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Why doesn't someone solder together a thousand one ohm resistors into a grid then use an ohmmeter to measure the resistance? Then repeat with smaller and smaller grids to see if there's any effect on the measurement. If the resistance does not change, or at least doesn't change until the grid size gets quite small, then the "infinite" term in the problem is a 'red herring' to mislead. Pointless, useless, irrelevant etc information in problems is a common tactic for gauging the ability to recognize and reject such data. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.122|199.27.133.122]] 00:35, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Incidentally, should this page mention that what if 113 (I don't know how to do links, sorry) contains a picture of this comic? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.65|108.162.216.65]] 23:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
:Yes I will do so. Have just referred to another what if where he is mentioning nerd sniping. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:40, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.34|141.101.98.34]] 12:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC) Am I the only one concerned with the fact that this poor guy was still on a crosswalk? The truck should have stopped. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.34|141.101.98.34]] 12:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
:No you are not, and good point --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:40, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

When the number of parallel resistors increase, the equivalent resistance decreases. So, in an infinite grid, wouldn't it approach zero? [[User:UrubuSelvagem|UrubuSelvagem]] ([[User talk:UrubuSelvagem|talk]]) 03:43, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
:They are also in series. For each parallel group, there is, in fact a corresponding group in series.

It is not directly relevant to the discussion of the comic, but this needs to be posted here. Perhaps the best nerd snipe ever actually achieved and a nearly perfect match for the comic (my professor put it in the lecture notes for my group theory class):
"Coxeter came to Cambridge and he gave a lecture, then he had this problem ... I left the lecture room thinking. As I was walking through Cambridge, suddenly the idea hit me, but it hit me while I was in the middle of the road. When the idea hit me I stopped and a large truck ran into me ... So I pretended that Coxeter had calculated the difficulty of this problem so precisely that he knew that I would get the solution just in the middle of the road ... One consequence of it is that in a group if a^2=b^3=c^5= (abc)^-1, then c^610=1."
(J.H. Conway, Math. Intelligencer v. 23 no. 2 (2001))
I did a search, and the entire passage can be read [https://books.google.ca/books?id=aFHyUfFUVIwC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=Coxeter+came+to+Cambridge+and+he+gave+a+lecture,+then+he+had+this+problem+...++Ileft+the+lecture+room+thinking.+As+I+was+walking+through+Cambridge,+suddenly+theidea+hit+me,++but+it+hit+me+while+I+was+in+the+middle+of+the+road.++When+the+ideahit+me+I+stopped+and+a+large+truck+ran+into+me+...++So+I+pretended+that+Coxeter+hadcalculated+the+difficulty+of+this+problem+so+precisely+that+he+knew+that+I+would+getthe+solution+just+in+the+middle+of+the+roa&source=bl&ots=CgmxTG2n0w&sig=ohqqBGtJrpuQFeiCPPusMVsQUV4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMIy4KdnPakyAIV0ZeICh2OGghP#v=onepage&q=Coxeter%20came%20to%20Cambridge%20and%20he%20gave%20a%20lecture%2C%20then%20he%20had%20this%20problem%20...%20%20Ileft%20the%20lecture%20room%20thinking.%20As%20I%20was%20walking%20through%20Cambridge%2C%20suddenly%20theidea%20hit%20me%2C%20%20but%20it%20hit%20me%20while%20I%20was%20in%20the%20middle%20of%20the%20road.%20%20When%20the%20ideahit%20me%20I%20stopped%20and%20a%20large%20truck%20ran%20into%20me%20...%20%20So%20I%20pretended%20that%20Coxeter%20hadcalculated%20the%20difficulty%20of%20this%20problem%20so%20precisely%20that%20he%20knew%20that%20I%20would%20getthe%20solution%20just%20in%20the%20middle%20of%20the%20roa&f=false here] perhaps it is even possible that this event is the inspiration for this comic? The inclusion of the "large truck" is almost too perfect. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.240.217|108.162.240.217]] 23:45, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
:I have now added this story in a new trivia section. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:40, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

I know a solution that use random walks. :) {{unsigned ip|141.101.95.153}}

I really like this comic. It says a lot about Black Hat, but so much more about Randall :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:40, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

So, *that's* how they did Gaudi in! I always suspected a plot; now I see the method. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.142.89|172.68.142.89]] 16:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Solution: ~0.7729906038309804 ohm. [[User:GcGYSF(asterisk)P(vertical line)e|GcGYSF(asterisk)P(vertical line)e]] ([[User talk:GcGYSF(asterisk)P(vertical line)e|talk]]) 20:36, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

Talk:2731: K-Means Clustering

2023-01-30T19:54:42Z

172.70.211.90: Explanation seems wrong about unique data points implying that clustering must ignore traits

{{w|K-means_clustering|The wikipedia article}} does not clear anything up [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.228|162.158.78.228]] 13:53, 30 January 2023 (UTC)Bumpf

The "Convergence of ''k''-means" animation is reasonably distinctive for a two-dimensional case, showing at least the motivation for the problem . Could it be attached here? [[User:Mia yun Ruse|Mia yun Ruse]] ([[User talk:Mia yun Ruse|talk]]) 14:08, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, this is probably the least explanatory Explain xkcd I've read in the past 3 years. Still a lot of heavy math. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.95|162.158.186.95]] 16:50, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

This feels very similar to the joke "There are 10 types of people: those who know binary and those who don't." Except that the real joke here is that Ponytail doesn't have anything meaningful to justify her version. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.150|172.70.206.150]] 17:45, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Current explanation claims that since every human is unique, clusters can only be formed by ignoring some traits. This seems false; a cluster could depend on multiple traits, so there's no obvious limit to the number of traits that could be used when forming clusters. Perhaps they mean that clusters can only be formed by combining non-identical points into the same cluster, but that's literally the entire purpose of clustering and applies to all clustering ever, so it seems like both a trivial observation and a non-sequitur. Am I missing something? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 19:54, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

2719: Hydrogen Isotopes

2023-01-04T05:36:56Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ |

{{comic
| number = 2719
| date = January 2, 2023
| title = Hydrogen Isotopes
| image = hydrogen_isotopes_2x.png
| imagesize = 442x250px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Oops, All Neutrons is also known as Neutral Quadrium, Nydnonen, and Goth Tritium.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BREAK ROOM DE BROGLIE MICROWAVE USER. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{W|Hydrogen}} is the simplest of the chemical atoms, usually consisting of an electron 'orbiting' a single and unaccompanied proton. The comic depicts this, as well as other forms of hydrogen, in the [[2100: Models of the Atom|general form]] of the Chadwick model ({{w|Discovery of the neutron#Proton–neutron model of the nucleus|or similar}}) of the atom. Starting with essentially factual figures, before moving into typical xkcd humour, the eight forms depicted are as follows:

{| class="wikitable"
! "Isotope"
! Real?
! Description
|-
|Hydrogen
|Yes
|Hydrogen-1 is the most common {{w|isotope}} of hydrogen, with one proton and one electron, shown with the electron orbiting the proton. It is also known as protium.
|-
|Deuterium
|Yes
|{{w|Deuterium}} is the second most common isotope of hydrogen, with one electron and both a neutron and proton in its nucleus. About one of every 6,760 hydrogen atoms in seawater is deuterium.
|-
|Tritium
|Yes
|{{w|Tritium}} is the third most common isotope of hydrogen, with one electron and a nucleus of one proton and two neutrons, for an atomic mass of about three {{w|Dalton (unit)|daltons}}. It is radioactive with a half-life of about twelve years, and is very rare (but not as rare as unbound "instant hydrogen" neutrons.)
|-
|Ium
|Not as shown
|This isotope depicts one electron orbiting around nothing. Heavier hydrogen isotopes are named from a prefix designating the number of {{w|nucleons}} followed by the suffix "-ium" (which is also used to name newly discovered elements before they are given a proper name, e.g. {{w|unununium}} for element 111) so no nucleus is designated with no prefix. A free electron will not circle around nothing, but instead will gain momentum towards positive electric field potentials including those created by moving magnetic fields.
|-
|Wheelium
|No
|This fictional form consists of a proton, electron, and neutron orbiting around nothing, shaped similarly to a wheel. The neutron would either bind to the proton, or much more likely, be {{w|Elastic_scattering#Nuclear particle physics|elastically scattered}} away.
|-
|Instant hydrogen (ready in 15 minutes)
|Yes, but rare
|This is just a single neutron. An unbound neutron will decay into a proton, an electron, and an antineutrino, with a mean lifetime of about 14 min, 39.6 s (half-life = about 10 min, 11 s). The antineutrino will carry away momentum, while the proton and electron ''can'' form into a hydrogen atom. However, this [https://van.physics.illinois.edu/ask/listing/1207 only happens about four times in a million.] The name is likely a reference to "instant" meals (e.g. instant noodles) which are typically reduced for convenient storage, and can be quickly reconstituted.
|-
|Hydrogen (maximum strength)
|No
|This fictional isotope consists of a proton, an electron, and what appear to be at least 14 neutrons. This isotope's proton would not be bound to all the neutrons. It would immediately decay by {{w|Nuclear drip line|dripping}} most all of them away, producing a large amount of energy. "Maximum strength" may be a reference to over-the-counter medicines containing the greatest legal quantity of active ingredients.
|-
|Oops, All Neutrons
|Maybe
|This fictional form consists of four neutrons, a {{w|tetraneutron}}, with one orbiting around a group of three. The name is likely a reference to an American breakfast cereal called {{w|Cap'n Crunch#Variations|Oops! All Berries}}.

The title text provides three other names of this form: 1. "Neutral Quadrium": Quadrium is an extremely rare isotope of hydrogen with four nucleons, a proton and three neutrons.[https://www.chem.ccu.edu.tw/~hu/Web_Lib/articles/Muonium+H2_Science_2011.pdf][https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/GodesRcontrolled.pdf] The proton and electron have been replaced with neutrons, making a fictional neutral atom. 2. "Nydnonen" is likely a derivation of "hydrogen" with three of its consonants replaced with the letter 'n' so it has four of them representing the four neutrons. 3. "Goth Tritium": All the particles in the depiction are black, resembling typical {{w|gothic fashion}}, and in the same configuration as the particles of tritium.
|}

{{notice2|The Mountain View, California Public Library is hosting an online chat with [[Randall Munroe]] Tuesday, January 31 at 11am Pacific. [https://libraryc.org/mountainviewlibrary/22032 Register here to send your question(s) to the moderators.]|image=Crystal Project Agt announcements.png}} 

==Transcript==
:[Eight drawings of different versions of hydrogen atoms are shown. They are arranged in two rows of four. The depictions use the planetary model version with for instance a negative electron (with a "-" written inside a small circle) orbiting a positive proton (with a "+" written inside a larger circle) and a black neutron depicted as a circle of the same size as the neutron, as in the second atom - Deuterium. Each has a label underneath. Here, they are listed in reading order:]
:[An electron orbiting a proton:]
:Hydrogen

:[An electron orbiting a proton connected with a neutron:]
:Deuterium

:[An electron orbiting a proton connected with two neutrons, so they form a triangle:]
:Tritium

:[An electron orbiting nothing:]
:Ium

:[An electron a proton and a neutron all orbiting on the same circle around nothing. They are placed equidistant from each other forming a large triangle:]
:Wheelium

:[A single neutron:]
:Instant Hydrogen (ready in 15 minutes)

:[An electron orbiting a proton connected with many neutrons, 13 visible with six touching the proton which are in front. Four more are close to those six and mostly shown and then three are only just visible behind the others. Looking closely there are also two smaller dots near the edge indicating at least two more, for 15 that can be seen. And several more would be behind the visible neutrons if this forms a spherical shape. The electrons orbit just barely goes around the outer neutrons:]
:Hydrogen (maximum strength)

:[Four neutrons arranged like the particles in Tritium with a neutron orbiting a triangle of neutrons.]
:Oops, all neutrons

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]

2719: Hydrogen Isotopes

2023-01-03T02:52:51Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ grammar

513: Friends

2022-12-29T01:40:47Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ removed an unnecessary comment (how do you spell that word??? did i do it right??)

{{comic
| number = 513
| date = December 5, 2008
| title = Friends
| image = friends.png
| titletext = Friends with detriments.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Cueball]] is talking to [[Megan]]. He confesses that he has a crush on her. Usually the next step in Western cultures, when someone likes someone else, is to ask the other person out (in other cultures, such as Islamic or Indian cultures, it would be more appropriate to request that one's parents contact the parents of the person one has a crush on). But Cueball takes a different route, and in the comic, he explains his thought process. Presumably he actually explains this to Megan.

He explains that he is afraid of rejection, and so instead of asking her out directly, promises to be her "best friend" and someone who is always "there for you," in the hopes that this will eventually lead to Megan developing an attraction for him. This way, Cueball does not have to risk Megan saying 'No' to him, as she will be led to make the first move instead. Cueball is aware that this may not be an ideal situation for Megan, conceding that she may end up changing her definition of happiness to make her feel more comfortable in the relationship, while she is conscious of the fact that she doesn't really love Cueball. Cueball recognizes that if Megan fell for him this way, she would probably have this fact at the back of her mind forever.

And so, after painting this elaborate - but troubling - future, Cueball asks ''sound good''? Megan, however, is not won over by Cueball's plan, and she tells him that she is going to date "this ''jerk''", poking fun at him saying 'I will tear down the jerks you date'. This suggests that she would much rather date someone else rather than date Cueball whom she -- as he correctly implies -- does not love.

Cueball declares that the other suitor ''doesn't respect you'', an absurdly hypocritical comment given his manipulative plan. He explained earlier that he would ''tear down the jerks you date''; this last line could also be him actually executing on the plan he just detailed.

The title text is a play on the concept of ''friends with benefits'', wherein two friends have casual sex without entering a committed relationship. ''Friends with detriments'' suggests that having Cueball as her "friend" damages Megan's chances of getting a relationship (and sex) with anyone else, since Cueball will tear any candidate down. Also, despite Cueball claiming to be Megan's friend (and appearing to value this friendship), his plans are rather selfish and manipulative, making him a "friend" who is in fact detrimental.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is talking to Megan.]
:Cueball: I have a crush on you.

:[Cueball is shown alone.]
:Cueball: I could ask you out, and move on with my life if you said no.

:[Cueball has his arms out.]
:Cueball: Or,
:Cueball: <big>WE COULD BE FRIENDS!</big>

:[Cueball has one palm out.]
:Cueball: See, I don't want to consider that you might not be attracted to me. I'm scared of rejection, so I've decided relationships should grow smoothly out of friendships.

:[Megan is shown sitting at her computer.]
:Cueball: When you have problems, I'll be there for you, night after night.
:Cueball: Selflessly.
:Computer: *hug*

:[Megan is shown slamming a door and walking to Cueball to get a hug.]
:Cueball: I'll tear down the jerks you date, and wait for you to realize how good I am for you. That only I will ever understand you.
:''SLAM''
:Megan: ''Sniff''
:Cueball: There there

:[Cueball is shown alone again.]
:Cueball: You don't want to hurt my feelings, and I won't ever force the issue. I'll tell myself it's because I "value our friendship."

:[Again.]
:Cueball: Bit by bit, I'll make you depend on me.

:[Cueball and Megan are shown sitting on a rock in a park, reading a book together.]
:Cueball: You'll think about how long it would take to build this kind of connection again.

:[Cueball and Megan are shown sitting on a couch drinking, getting closer, and kissing.]
:Cueball: And in a moment of weakness
:Cueball: and loneliness
:Cueball: you'll give in.

:[Megan is shown sitting at the computer with Cueball behind her facing the other way washing dishes.]
:Cueball: It'll feel comfortable and natural. You'll quietly revise your definition of love and try to be happy. And sometimes you will be.

:[Megan is shown sitting at the computer.]
:Cueball: Only the wistfulness in your gaze and the tiny pause before you say "I love you" will hint that this wasn't the ending you'd hoped for.
:Cueball: Sound good?

:[Megan is holding hands with another boy, talking to Cueball.]
:Megan: ...I'm going to date this jerk.
:Cueball: But he doesn't respect you!

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Romance]]
[[Category:Sarcasm]]

Talk:2714: Cold Complaints

2022-12-22T03:38:48Z

172.70.211.90: Full cite justification

That study sounds like something that would win an Ig Nobel Prize. But the 2002 prize in medicine went to "Scrotal Asymmetry in Man and in Ancient Sculpture". [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Also common cold cannot really be cured, just wait and see. http://www.picturequotes.com/proper-treatment-will-cure-a-cold-in-seven-days-but-left-to-itself-a-cold-will-hang-on-for-a-week-quote-272191 [[User:Vdm|Vdm]] ([[User talk:Vdm|talk]]) 20:49, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Are we sure that's the actual explanation? I thought the panels we see of the telemedicine are fibs to explain why Harry is acting this way. As in, he's pretending a medical professional told him to act like this. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.13|172.69.68.13]] 21:59, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Can the citation be moved to a ref tag instead of just Being There? on a related note, why is the 58 bolded? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.76|172.71.166.76]] 22:32, 21 December 2022 (UTC) [[NonUser:Bumpf|Bumpf]] ([[NonUser talk:Bumpf|shh]])
:We usually don't bother with the cite and just use numbered links, especially in cases like this where the full cite is on the first page of the link. I'll change it. Journal volume numbers are written in bold in APA style. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.79|172.69.22.79]] 00:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
::In this case I prefer the full cite showing the counterintuitive quote comes from a pertinent peer-reviewed journal. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 03:38, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I know far too many people who already follow this course of treatment. And not just for viruses, either. [[User:RAGBRAIvet|RAGBRAIvet]] ([[User talk:RAGBRAIvet|talk]]) 23:59, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

Is the accepted explanation for this comic that it is... mocking people who ask for sympathy or help when unwell for being "big babies"? That seems uncomfortably close to, say, making fun of people who seek treatment for mental illness... I understand that there is a disproportionate level of complaint relative to minor discomfort that is ridiculous and maybe even funny, but that doesn't seem to have been established here. I think we should emphasize that, "Hey, it's perfectly fine and even healthy to talk about the disappointment of feeling shitty, but don't take it to this extreme" - even if the original comic arguably doesn't do so. [[User:Notanotherusername|Notanotherusername]] ([[User talk:Notanotherusername|talk]]) 03:01, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the ''Journal of Clinical Psychology'' quote fulfills that purpose somewhat. Kudos to whomever found it. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.39|172.71.154.39]]

2714: Cold Complaints

2022-12-22T03:34:58Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ see if I can get an improvement in the middle of a vandalism war

{{comic
| number = 2714
| date = December 21, 2022
| title = Cold Complaints
| image = cold_complaints_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x254px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = Our investigation into whining-based remedies became the first study to be halted by the IRB on the grounds that the treatment group was 'too annoying.'
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a GIGANTIC WHINING BABY - Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

When people are ill, they will often complain about the symptoms that they're suffering from. A common sterotype is that men will revert to infantile behavior when miserably sick. This can be annoying to the people around them, but they typically tolerate such behavior out of compassion. The joke in this comic is that [[Hairy]] spoke a via {{w|telemedicine}} appointment to [[Doctor Ponytail]], a medical professional who explicitly advised him to act out, since his condition has no effective medical treatment. He takes the advice to, "act like you're the first person ever to have a cold," literally, stating it specifically when his companion asks about it.

This comic was published during a "tripledemic" in the U.S., involving {{w|COVID-19}}, {{w|influenza}}, and {{w|respiratory syncytial virus}} (RSV, a frequent cause of common colds) infections, the latter of which have no cure other than to wait them out with plenty of rest and fluids. It expounds on the finding that, "talking about troublesome events, including events with which one is dissatisfied, may ... result in improved physiological health." (Kowalski, R.M. (2002) [http://people.uncw.edu/hakanr/documents/whining.pdf "Whining, griping, and complaining: positivity in the negativity."] ''Journal of clinical psychology,'' '''58'''(9):1023-35.)

The title text describes a similar study, but where the {{w|institutional review board}} (IRB) halted the study because the participants were too annoying. This is ironic since they would be expected to whine annoyingly. IRBs are expected to review the ethics of a research project. Whining is not usually considered dangerous,{{citation needed}} but in this case it was presumably so intolerable that they had to put a stop to it.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy sitting on a chair in front of a computer screen. There is an image of Ponytail on the screen speaking.]
:Ponytail: Well, it's not COVID or flu. Probably one of the other viruses.
:Hairy: Ughh

:[A zoomed out version of the image, Ponytail cannot be seen]
:Ponytail: There's not much you can do to speed up recovery other than rest, hydrate, and whine and complain and be a gigantic baby about it.

:[Same as previous panel]
:Hairy: Whine and complain?
:Ponytail: Yeah. You need to act like you're the first person ever to have a cold.

:[Hairy lying on a couch wrapped in a blanket, with a lot of paper tissues around]
:Off-screen voice: Are you '''''sure''''' that's what she said?
:Hairy: Unbelievable. Here I am, the only person ever to feel bad, and you're '''''doubting''''' me?

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Doctor Ponytail]]
[[Category:Medicine]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]

Talk:2712: Gravity

2022-12-17T01:15:05Z

172.70.211.90:

Whatever image is supposed to be in the center isn't showing up for me! D: Tried on both Safari and Chrome but it gives me the little broken picture icon. Hopefully it's fixed soon! (The comic's been up for about 10 minutes going by when the bot updated this page.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.117|172.70.126.117]] 22:28, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: The center image is trying to load this link, but there's nothing there: https://xkcd.com/tile/ship1/ship_gliding_2x.png. I hope that gets fixed soon. The "ship" seems to rotate a bit unpredictably over time. At first I thought it was responding to my mouse movements, but I don't think so anymore. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:34, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Ah, the center image is controlled by the javascript, of course: https://xkcd.com/2712/comic.js. So this is some sort of interactive comic? [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:36, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Okay, left/right arrow keys seem to control the rotation. I'll check back in later in hopes of seeing the ship so I have some idea what the point of it all is. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: And now it's working. You fly a little spaceship around the little planet. Luckily you have shields if you slam into the ground too hard. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Catch the cannonball for a spaceship upgrade. Also, not so easy to find a stable orbit around this little planet. [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 22:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

You can transform the ship into a different (seems faster to me) one by running into the last cannon ball.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.249|108.162.241.249]]

Rough summary: The comic is an interactive space flight game, starting landed on an origin planet. The planet is static, and the player starts in a ship controlled by WASD or Directional keys. The ship can go up and down, and rotate left and right. Game simulates orbits and gravity, making navigation tricky. Around the player ship there are dots which indicate nearby planets - there are numurous planets, each with what seem to be drawings related to the What If book. Within the browser, planets are loaded in PNG format by chunk, names formatted as "planet_0_0" with numbers incrementing as grid co-ordinates. Planets and objects found: "origin" "europa", "road", "b612". NOTE: Several hazards exist, such as a field of black holes - if flown into, the ship can become stuck if let to be pulled close to the surface, locking in place. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: Within browser dev console exists the objects "Ship" and "Comic", the latter containing a list of all objects and coordinates, as well as various setting for the game physics and settings. Comic contains the sub-object "Voyager", which contains the details and settings for the player ship, including location, speed, etc. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: There are 5 ship types in the game code, each with their own consumable transformative found in the world. The ship alternatives are (ship1, ship2, ship-tintin, ship-figure, ship-soccerball). These can be changed with console command [Comic.ship = "ship1"]. Note: At current, "ship-soccerball" returns an error and does not load correctly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:13, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: The "ship.shields" is a boolean value that defaults to true, and when set to false, makes the game behave in a lunar lander mode (bad landing black screens the whole page). The "ship.engine" types I see in the code are "warp" (very fast speeds) and "infinite improbability drive" (teleports to 'improbable' places). Default engine is "standard", but it seems any value that is not the former two has the same effect. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.165|172.70.254.165]] 23:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: In addition to Europa, the space road, and B-612, there is the "Edge of the Universe" (complete with Milliways restaurant nearby), a... tree (which is extremely hard to land on), a planet populated by the characters from Dinosaur Comics (and the main cast of Jurassic Park), the USS Enterprice (NCC 1701-C), and likely quite a bit more. Orbital mechanics make it tough to land on the smaller targets. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.46|172.71.254.46]] 23:07, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

:: Plus what appears to be Earth, complete with the LHC. There's a 2nd "cannonball" there for an additional ship upgrade, but at the time I found it, that graphic was unavailable. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.232|172.70.126.232]] 23:15, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

: I went out a long ways away, and eventually found The Great Attractor. It attracts really hard. I couldn't leave the surface. (I wasn't able to leave the center of Europa either, though, so, not saying much.) There are also some terrifying black holes (a binary system?), though something's weird about their gravity; you kinda bounce off of them a quarter screen away or so? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.77|108.162.216.77]] 23:10, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:: I *think* thats a wormhole, you go in one and then out the other. I got stuck right between them. Speaking of getting stuck, there is a bug where if you hit a planet with enough gravity fast enough, the ship is inside the planet. Holding W makes you go backwards (or at least towards the center maybe?) and you can get all the way to the other end of the planet where you slow down a lot, but can eventually leave. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.166|172.70.82.166]] 23:19, 16 December 2022 (UTC)Bumpf

::There's one planet that's supposed to be the "remnant of the sun", is that what you mean with The Great Attractor? (It has a bridge on it with a coin(?) blocking part of the way, and a space ship actively crashing into its surface, drawn as several frames.) You can leave that by skidding over the surface like a skipping stone to gather momentum - it's tricky, due to various obstacles, but possible! (It's possible you need two ship power-ups?! If they're indeed power-ups and not just aesthetic changes, I didn't pay attention.)

:::No, it's labeled "The Great Attractor". It's big and white and has strong gravity. Lemme see if I have a screenshot. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.25|108.162.216.25]] 00:20, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Here: https://github.com/Erhannis/random_garbage/blob/main/Screenshot%20from%202022-12-16%2017-47-48.png [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.25|108.162.216.25]] 00:24, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

::Screenshot of [https://imgur.com/a/NZulBlb the Enterprise] and [https://imgur.com/2VSZYp7 Dinosaur Comics planet]. Sorry for the broken image in the middle, I picked up two powerups and [https://xkcd.com/2712/tile/ship-soccerball/ship_landing_down_2x.png my current ship image is broken]. -(pinkgothic) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.143|172.68.110.143]] 23:22, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:::[https://i.imgur.com/fLU1cWy.png Dog Park planet] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.114|172.71.254.114]] 23:28, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Using a tablet (no keyboard, but seems to respond to touch), controls are confusing. Presuming that touching bottom left activates left-rotate and touching bottom right does right-rotate (can't see the presumably white-lije controls over the white planet) but I can't get ''thrust'' anything but 'reverse' into the planet centre. No obvious top-edge hotspots, either. Maybe I need to do a "You will not go to space today" and then reverse ''upward''... BRB, after a bit more testing, though... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.185|172.69.79.185]] 23:39, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
:Ok, the next go went 'better'. The browser keeps wanting to load "simplified content", but if I ignore that I can get full-screen, at one point I changed rocket-type (no idea how, can't do it again) and I ''easily'' get off the planet (hard to thrust just enough to get to the Hooke comment/cannon), with plenty of targets coming in range (but cannot slow down enough to not have it glitch and rebuild a totally new set of targets that I never can reach). Will try desktop version when I'm next on a suitable one... Looks to be a lot of interesting content. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.30|162.158.74.30]] 23:53, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Using the developer console, the ship can be teleported to different coordinates via console command [Comic.voyager.pos.x = 0, Comic.voyager.pos.y = -1461], provided here with start location coordinates. This can be used for manual navigation to known coordinates. List of locations per game code added below, append landing X,Y to each as determined. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 23:42, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

b612: [5280,-7601] dogplanet: [2598,-23168] earth: [33803,-32974] enterprise: [1898,-61215] europa: [24930,8022] goodhart: [-23372,5928] greatattractor: [-594782,248510] japanmoon: [x,y] maw1: [x,y] maw2: [x,y] maw3: [x,y] maw4: [x,y] maw5: [x,y] maw6: [x,y] maw7: [x,y] maw8: [x,y] maw9: [x,y] maw10: [x,y] maw11: [x,y] maw13: [x,y] maw14: [x,y] nojapan: [x,y] origin: [0, -1461] peeler: [x,y] pigeons: [x,y] present: [x,y] remnant: [x,y] roads: [x,y] soupiter: [x,y] steerswoman: [x,y] sun: [x,y]

Note: For ease of teleportation, reference the ''Comic.planetRects'' array and use the first two numbers as X,Y. This will get the ship close enough to the object to then land and determine a landed location, via ''Comic.voyager.pos''

In your developer console, enter <code>window.ship.engines = 'infinite improbability drive'</code> and pressing up will randomly teleport you to interesting places.
<code>window.ship.engines = 'warp'</code> will let you escape normally inescapable objects.

; Proposal
It seems the most explanatory thing we can do is replace the blank starfield with the starting image screenshot, and label its four corners with their x and y coordiates, and then make a table of all the objects with their coordinates, a screenshot, and a description of their behaviors. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.204|172.70.206.204]] 23:55, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
: A map with insets would be better than coordinates since the frame rotates. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.231|172.71.158.231]] 00:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Got images for all the locations: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CVADHsRgBtDPYca-gdfVwNW_nEsrJ-zj?usp=share_link [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 00:03, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Looks like I was beat to the punch, but here's another way to access the raw images (on a dark background): https://aeromancer.dev/xkcd_2712/ [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 01:15, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

2659: Unreliable Connection

2022-08-16T14:36:05Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ replace firmware reference, per suggestion on talk; paragraphs

{{comic
| number = 2659
| date = August 15, 2022
| title = Unreliable Connection
| image = unreliable_connection.png
| titletext = NEGATIVE REVIEWS MENTION: Unreliable internet. POSITIVE REVIEWS MENTION: Unreliable internet.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by ROUND TRIP LATENCY BACKOFF. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In today's world, the Internet, pervasive mobile technology and the COVID pandemic have all caused an implicit expectation for employees to be available all hours of the day. One of these expectations is for said employees to be required to attend virtual meetings. In this comic, [[Randall]] solves the issue with a deliberately suboptimal internet device that drops Internet connectivity temporarily, thereby causing activities they require a constant, uninterrupted connection to be unusable. The device appears to be an automated version of a {{w|Galton board}} or {{w|Jin Akiyama}}'s mathematical {{w|pachinko}} machine[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1601.05706.pdf] with a series of eleven "on" and one "off" switches at the bottom to be pressed by falling balls.

This is funny because such a device could likely much more easily be implemented in the {{w|firmware}} of the internet or WiFi {{w|modem}} or {{w|Router (computing)|router}}s. (See [[1785: Wifi]] for an explanation of firmware.) It's not clear whether the switches merely interrupt the connection momentarily or control power to the modem, which would involve a much longer booting sequence. The "unreliable" connection provides an excuse to be unavailable for work or social calls, and thus free to enjoy one's vacation. However the device also allows the user to have a fast internet connection most of the time, enabling them to use it for leisure purposes, such as downloading movies for entertainment, or to connect with others on one's own terms. It thus retains most of the benefit of a good connection.

The probability of a ball hitting the "off" switch is 165/2048, or about 8%, assuming the machine is ordinary,[https://drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2018/8817/pdf/LIPIcs-FUN-2018-26.pdf] because the "off" switch is in the ninth position. We don't know the frequency with which new balls are dropped, so we can't estimate the frequency with which the device is likely to trigger {{w|Session Initiation Protocol}}, {{w|Transmission Control Protocol}}, or similar {{w|Timeout (computing)|timeout}} conditions that would likely close synchronous {{w|VOIP}}, video conferencing, and e.g. {{w|VRChat}} connections. Even if such connections were to survive the induced service interruptions, the {{w|application layer}} call or teleconference quality would suffer during them. The device may cause interruptions rarely enough that the connection is usable for casual purposes, but the user can still reasonably claim that it's unreliable to get out of online obligations.

The title text reflects on today's increasingly always-connected world, where emphasis may be changing from finding rare vacation spots that have reliable internet, to show off the local facilities, to now actually finding somewhere worthwhile to go that still doesn't have it, as a {{wiktionary|humble-brag}} about the remoteness of the destination. It could also be a comment on the mild paradox that a nominally unreliable internet connection has advantages for those whose communication schedules, volume, or style preferences make synchronous teleconferencing less desirable. The reviews for the new vacation spot indicate that the 'unfortunate' disconnections are found to be both desirable and undesirable, possibly even by the same person.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[There are twelve switches under an automated Galton board or pachinko machine, eleven of which are linked to a large item marked "on" but the ninth of which is linked to one marked "off", apparently controlling the operation of a modem connected to a gigabit data-cable and also connected onwards to a WiFi router. There is a supply of balls in a hopper above the board, with the triangular configuration of pins directing the balls chaotically to one or other of the switches, as shown by a single released ball and a motion path partially showing how it had rebounded from around half-way down until after hitting and rebounding away off a bottom-layer switch.]

:[Caption below the panel]:
:My new vacation spot has very fast internet that turns off randomly every now and then, just so you can tell people you'll be staying somewhere without a reliable connection.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Internet]]
[[Category:Social interactions]]

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-15T22:36:31Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ l.c.

{{comic
| number = 2658
| date = August 12, 2022
| title = Coffee Cup Holes
| image = coffee_cup_holes.png
| titletext = Theoretical physicist: At the Planck length, uncountably many.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CAFFEINE MOLECULE WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN ITS SIDE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic depicts people in different fields of study answering the question, "How many holes are there in a coffee cup?" and also compares this to what a normal person would say.

This question has different interpretations, entirely dependant upon the definition of a hole. The type of {{w|coffee cup}} shown in the comic is with a handle (like a {{w|mug}}), but [[Randall]] calls it a cup and there are also cups with handles on the Wikipedia page for coffee cups. Most people would recognize that there is a hole through the handle.

[[File:Mug and Torus morph.gif|thumb|200px|The coffee mug and donut shown in this animation both have topological genus one.]]

[[Ponytail]], a {{w|topology|topologist}}, states the coffee cup belongs in the {{w|Genus (mathematics)#Topology|genus}} of one hole. A common joke is that topologists can't tell the difference between a coffee cup (with handle) and a {{w|doughnut}} since they're {{w|Homeomorphism|homeomorphic}} to each other — meaning they have the same genus, i.e one hole. From the topologist's point of view, the coffee cup definitely has one hole, which corresponds to the opening created by the cup handle. A cup without a handle would have zero holes, as it is equivalent to a dinner plate, just an indentation in the surface. See [[2625: Field Topology]] for more information about topology.

[[Hairy]], a normal person, is not sure (the acronym "IDK" stands for "I don't know") and asks for clarification about whether the opening at the top counts as a hole. This shows flaws in the question, which suffers from the mathematically imprecise, ambiguous common usage of the word hole. Topologists would refer to the opening as a concavity, not a hole, and while they consider such geometrical properties generally outside their field, most practical applications of topology do involve geometric components. Hairy would say one for the handle, and two if the opening counts as a hole, which he is not certain the one asking the question thinks.

[[File:Double torus illustration.png|thumb|left|200px|A genus two surface]]

[[Hairbun]], a philosopher, answers the question with an elucidating counter-question, considering a hypothetical scenario. Drilling a new hole should increase the number of holes by one. After the hole has been drilled, the coffee cup with handle has two holes according to topologists. Two drawings are shown; one drawing with arrows pointing to three different 'holes' (the handle, the upper cavity and the newly drilled hole), therefore implying the original cup had 2 holes, and one drawing showing two possible paths through the cup (through the handle, plus into the cavity and then out through the drilling) which implies the original previously only had the one hole. The last drawing aligns with the way the Ponytail sees it.

[[Image:Point cloud torus.gif|thumb|200px|A point cloud of a genus one surface]]

[[Cueball]], a chemist, looks at the coffee in the cup on a molecular level, which means it has very many holes: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1021 or 1 sextillion) “in the [https://chemapps.stolaf.edu/jmol/jmol.php?model=CN1C%3DNC2%3DC1C%28%3DO%29N%28C%28%3DO%29N2C%29C caffeine] alone.” One molecule of caffeine has two rings of bonds with holes in them, so Cueball is talking about 500 quintillion molecules, or 0.00083 {{w|mole (unit)|moles}}. As the molecular mass of {{w|caffeine}} is about 194 grams per mole, [[Randall]] must think that the mass of caffeine in a typical cup of coffee is 161 milligrams. The coffee could have other holes, depending on the type of coffee; for example, espresso contains significant amounts of niacin and riboflavin, which have one and three rings in their chemical structure, respectively. However, bonds are not sticks as portrayed in many molecular models. The "holes" in the middle of a molecule's rings are not completely empty but instead merely have lower electron probability density through the middle than other parts of the bonds. So the point-cloud duality of {{w|Bonding molecular orbital|electron orbitals and bonds}} might not satisfy a topologist's, normal person's, or philosopher's criteria for a connected substrate in which holes may be formed.

[[Image:World lines and world sheet.svg|left|thumb|200px|{{w|String theory}} describes the {{w|worldline}}s of point-like particles as {{w|worldsheet}}s of "closed strings," forming topological holes.]]

In the title text, a theoretical physicist looks even deeper, at the subatomic scale of {{w|Planck units}}. Since fundamental particle interaction is governed by fundamental forces and collision (per the {{w|Pauli exclusion principle}}) instead of tensile or ductile solid connectedness, the theoretical physicist posits that any definition providing for a single hole would also describe a number of holes akin to the factorial of the number of particles in the universe,[https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-02341882/document] or at least within the cup's {{w|light cone}}, which is a number impractical to accurately count, but not uncountable in a mathematical sense.

The main joke is that the number of holes depends on both the scale and perspective from which you are looking at the world. From a topological standpoint, when someone digs into the ground it should go all the way through (or easier, down and up again another place) before it is considered a hole, since a hole is something that some other thing should be able to pass through. But from a common usage perspective, if people dig in the ground the result is called a hole, because functionally it creates a discontinuity in to which, for example, things can be placed or fall. Similarly, the opening in a coffee cup (without a handle) or a bottle of beer is called a hole, even though they are topologically equivalent to a dinner plate, which normal people would never say had a hole.

The topological discussion here regarding cups and doughnuts is related to the question of how many holes there are in a human, which is excellently answered in Vsauce's video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEraZP9yXQ How Many Holes Does a Human Have?]. This also takes a god look at the topological difference between a paper cup and a mug with handle.

==Transcript==
:[The first panel has text only and is phrasing a question:]
:<big>Q:</big>
:How many holes are there in a coffee cup?

:[Each of the next four panels has a caption at the top to indicate the kind of person answering the question. In the first of these Ponytail stands holding a coffee cup in its handle.]
:Caption: Topologist
:Ponytail: One.

:[In the next panel Hairy stands to the right of Ponytail, holding the coffee cup in its handle at an angle so he can to look into it.]
:Caption: Normal person
:Hairy: IDK, does the opening count as a hole?

:[In the next panel Hairbun is shown in closeup, holding her hand out palm up to indicate two drawings of coffee cups with handles to her left. The top drawing is larger and shows the cup with coffee inside, and a hole drilled at the bottom part of the side away from the handle. Coffee pours out of this hole. Beneath and further left is a smaller version of the same cup, but now without coffee. Instead two curved arrows goes from above to below through the hole of the handle and the hole now drilled in the bottom part of the cup. Each arrow is labeled with a question-mark.]
:Caption: Philosopher
:Hairbun: To answer that question, consider another: If we drill a hole in the side, how many holes are there now?
:?
:?

:[Cueball, without any cup, stands with a drawing of a caffeine molecule above and to the right of him. It has two "rings" with 5 and 6 atoms. Those rings are connected along one side. There are 9 "edges" on this, three of those has one atom attached to it and 3 others have four atoms attached to them (one atom with three others attached). The two that are at the end of the edge that belongs to both rings have no atoms attached, and the final of the 9 also has no atom.]
:Caption: Chemist
:Cueball: 1021 in the caffeine alone

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Physics]]

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-13T23:46:54Z

172.70.211.90:

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-13T04:00:10Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ tighten

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-13T03:58:31Z

172.70.211.90: Keep plurality same, clarify

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-13T03:56:08Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ concavity, copyediting, and remove uncited religious assertion--if we praise Judiasm, we would have to do the same for the Socratic method and every other culture's folklore in favor of engaged tutelage

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-11T02:15:44Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ remove text with explanatory comment

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ROUNDED TONGUE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

[[File:Ipa-chart-vowels.png|thumb|200px|The IPA vowel chart]]

In phonetics based on the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (IPA), the space of {{w|vocal tract}} articulators determining {{w|vowel}}s  is represented as two-dimensional, from the position of the tongue. The vertical axis represents vowel height or ''closedness'' (i.e. how close or far the tongue is from the top of the mouth), and the horizontal axis represents front-to-back ''place'' (i.e., how close or far the top of tongue is from the teeth.) The position of the tongue, along with the frequency of the {{w|vocal cords}} vibrating in the larynx from air being exhaled by the diaphragm, are the primary determinants of the fundamental and second {{w|formant}}s of vowel sounds.

A third dimension of vowel sounds is the "roundedness" of the lips, and to a much lesser extent the tongue and cheeks, which is not represented on the IPA vowel chart to the right. [[Randall]] thus suggests using complex notation to indicate such a third dimension. Other higher-dimensional vowel representations include {{w|diphthong}}s, which are simply two different sequential vowels slurred together; diphones, which represent the last half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next; the {{w|vowel shift}} mappings delineating different accents[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/47086396.pdf][https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447010000562] and long-term evolution of voiced phone sounds; and {{w|cepstrum|ceptstral}} representations such as {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|mel-frequency ceptstral coefficients}}.

In mathematics, {{w|complex number}}s are numbers including both real numbers and {{w|imaginary number}}s. A complex number can be expressed as, "''a'' + ''b''i," where ''a'' and ''b'' are real numbers, but the latter imaginary part is combined with 'i,' the square root of negative one as depicted in the central expression in the comic, presumably indicating the coordinates of the complex vowel. When expanding the one-dimensional number line with an imaginary axis, it becomes two-dimensional with any "''b''i" component being represented perpendicularly away from the original 'real' line. Linguists never use the {{w|complex plane}} to represent vowel roundedness, or any other higher-dimensional features of phonemes.{{cn}}

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. Such complex vowels are implied to create sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain, represented graphically as {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA, similarly to the cliché of "black speech" in {{w|Lovecraftian horror}}, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans. In reality, people find Zalgo text amusing, thus the humor of the comic, but not particularly insanity-inducing or even more than mildly confusing.{{cn}} This is also funny because unadorned IPA shares some characteristics with Zalgo text, such as extremely uncommon {{w|glyph}}s and weird {{w|diaeresis}}.

In linguistics, 'ə' is the {{w|schwa}} symbol, referred to in the title text as well as the depiction of complex phonemes, the most common vowel sound in English polysyllabic words (the 'a' in "comma" or the second 'e' in "letter"). Production of the schwa sound takes place with the tongue, jaw, and lips all in a relaxed, central position; and certainly sounds nothing like the 'x' in "fire," because it has no 'x.'

The linguist in the comic appears to be {{w|Gretchen McCulloch}}, as previously depicted in [[2421: Tower of Babel]] and [[2381: The True Name of the Bear]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A diagram shows the extrusion of the trapezoidal IPA vowel chart upwards into three dimensions. A point near the center is labeled with an equation that shows "ə + 1/2 * sqrt(-1)" as being equivalent to a made-up symbol that looks like two schwas mirroring each other with other markings above and below.]

:[Below the diagram, a character with shoulder-length dark wavy hair pronounces the new vowel in a speech bubble with unstable lines surrounding it. Two bystanders to her right are bent over slightly, clutching their heads in apparent anguish.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Linguistics tip: Extend the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce ''complex vowels'', cursed sounds which the human mind cannot comprehend.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Language]]

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-11T02:11:14Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ copyedit

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ROUNDED TONGUE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

[[File:Ipa-chart-vowels.png|thumb|200px|The IPA vowel chart]]

In phonetics based on the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (IPA), the space of {{w|vocal tract}} articulators determining {{w|vowel}}s (as opposed to unvoiced consonants) is represented as two-dimensional, from the position of the tongue. The vertical axis represents vowel height or ''closedness'' (i.e. how close or far the tongue is from the top of the mouth), and the horizontal axis represents front-to-back ''place'' (i.e., how close or far the top of tongue is from the teeth.) The position of the tongue, along with the frequency of the {{w|vocal cords}} vibrating in the larynx from air being exhaled by the diaphragm, are the primary determinants of the fundamental and second {{w|formant}}s of vowel sounds.

A third dimension of vowel sounds is the "roundedness" of the lips, and to a much lesser extent the tongue and cheeks, which is not represented on the IPA vowel chart to the right. [[Randall]] thus suggests using complex notation to indicate such a third dimension. Other higher-dimensional vowel representations include {{w|diphthong}}s, which are simply two different sequential vowels slurred together; diphones, which represent the last half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next; the {{w|vowel shift}} mappings delineating different accents[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/47086396.pdf][https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447010000562] and long-term evolution of voiced phone sounds; and {{w|cepstrum|ceptstral}} representations such as {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|mel-frequency ceptstral coefficients}}.

In mathematics, {{w|complex number}}s are numbers including both real numbers and {{w|imaginary number}}s. A complex number can be expressed as, "''a'' + ''b''i," where ''a'' and ''b'' are real numbers, but the latter imaginary part is combined with 'i,' the square root of negative one as depicted in the central expression in the comic, presumably indicating the coordinates of the complex vowel. When expanding the one-dimensional number line with an imaginary axis, it becomes two-dimensional with any "''b''i" component being represented perpendicularly away from the original 'real' line. Linguists never use the {{w|complex plane}} to represent vowel roundedness, or any other higher-dimensional features of phonemes.{{cn}}

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. Such complex vowels are implied to create sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain, represented graphically as {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA, similarly to the cliché of "black speech" in {{w|Lovecraftian horror}}, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans. In reality, people find Zalgo text amusing, thus the humor of the comic, but not particularly insanity-inducing or even more than mildly confusing.{{cn}} This is also funny because unadorned IPA shares some characteristics with Zalgo text, such as extremely uncommon {{w|glyph}}s and weird {{w|diaeresis}}.

In linguistics, 'ə' is the {{w|schwa}} symbol, referred to in the title text as well as the depiction of complex phonemes, the most common vowel sound in English polysyllabic words (the 'a' in "comma" or the second 'e' in "letter"). Production of the schwa sound takes place with the tongue, jaw, and lips all in a relaxed, central position; and certainly sounds nothing like the 'x' in "fire," because it has no 'x.'

The linguist in the comic appears to be {{w|Gretchen McCulloch}}, as previously depicted in [[2421: Tower of Babel]] and [[2381: The True Name of the Bear]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A diagram shows the extrusion of the trapezoidal IPA vowel chart upwards into three dimensions. A point near the center is labeled with an equation that shows "ə + 1/2 * sqrt(-1)" as being equivalent to a made-up symbol that looks like two schwas mirroring each other with other markings above and below.]

:[Below the diagram, a character with shoulder-length dark wavy hair pronounces the new vowel in a speech bubble with unstable lines surrounding it. Two bystanders to her right are bent over slightly, clutching their heads in apparent anguish.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Linguistics tip: Extend the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce ''complex vowels'', cursed sounds which the human mind cannot comprehend.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Language]]

Talk:2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T22:47:42Z

172.70.211.90: Links, correction

Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F

sscchhwwaa is easy, say it like the x in "fire" and the silent p in "bath"[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 21:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Ideas: bellows-, reed-, and lucite-based voiced phone production tracts typical in science museums; {{w|diphone}}s as an alternative to phomemes (a diphone is the second half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next -- NOT two adjacent phomemes as the Wikipedia article claims. Two adjacent phomemes are biphones, not diphones); the two dimensional position of the tongue in place × closure space; {{w|diphthong}}s; and {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 22:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T22:44:28Z

172.70.211.90: Clarify

Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F

sscchhwwaa is easy, say it like the x in "fire" and the silent p in "bath"[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 21:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Ideas: bellows-, reed-, and lucite-based voiced phone production tracts typical in science museums; diphones as an alternative to phomemes (a diphone is the second half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next); the two dimensional position of the tongue in place × closure space; diphthongs; and {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 22:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T22:43:47Z

172.70.211.90: Link

Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F

sscchhwwaa is easy, say it like the x in "fire" and the silent p in "bath"[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 21:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Ideas: bellows-, reed-, and lucite-based voiced phone production tracts typical in science museums; diphones as an alternative to phomemes (a diphone is the second half of one phoneme followed by the first half of another); the two dimensional position of the tongue in place × closure space; diphthongs; and {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 22:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T21:01:00Z

172.70.211.90:

Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T21:00:53Z

172.70.211.90: Moved to comments

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
In mathematics, complex numbers are numbers including both real numbers and imaginary numbers. A complex number can be expressed as "a + bi" where a is a real number and i, the imaginary part, is the square root of negative one.

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. This creates a series of sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain. This is similar to the cliche of "black speech" in Lovecraftian horror, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-10T20:58:23Z

172.70.211.90:

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
In mathematics, complex numbers are numbers including both real numbers and imaginary numbers. A complex number can be expressed as "a + bi" where a is a real number and i, the imaginary part, is the square root of negative one.

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. This creates a series of sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain. This is similar to the cliche of "black speech" in Lovecraftian horror, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}
Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T13:47:42Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ reword

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high altitude aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or on the effects of the common parasite ''{{w|toxoplasma gondii}}'' on cats' prey. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], chemtrails are distinct from "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by airplane engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines, rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example entomological discussions of "slave-making" in socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that such misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text humorously contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant/technology interaction speculative fiction-themed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared"] music video by the alt-rock band ''Placebo''. 

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both seem related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as he seems to think a lot about how to annoy specific groups of people, perhaps in an attempt to minimize annoyances.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} is explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T13:23:38Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ grammar

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], chemtrails are distinct from "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example entomological discussions of "slave-making" in socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that such misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant/technology interaction speculative fiction-themed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared"] music video by the alt-rock band ''Placebo''. 

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both seem related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as he seems to think a lot about how to annoy specific groups of people, perhaps in an attempt to minimize annoyances.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T13:21:47Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ speculative possibility doesn't need a source

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], chemtrails are distinct from "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example entomological discussions of "slave-making" in socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that such misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant/technology interaction speculative fiction-themed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared"] music video by the alt-rock band ''Placebo''. 

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as he seems to think a lot about how to annoy specific groups of people, perhaps in an attempt to minimize annoyances.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T12:35:27Z

172.70.211.90: /* Trivia */ remove to discuss on talk

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of "spraying" action. {{w|Nucleation#Examples of the nucleation of fluids (gases and liquids)|Vapor nucleation}} is central to both cloud seeding and contrails.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" The choice of terminology is often a sore spot for those who study a particular field in depth, for example that which occurs in discussions of "slave-making" in socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this sort of misuse is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites.

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

Talk:2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T12:32:44Z

172.70.211.90: Reply

Ants navigate by following trails of chemicals on the ground, so it is ''technically'' a correct description, but also lumps ant navigation entomologists with conspiracy nuts.--[[User:NyanSequitur|NyanSequitur]] ([[User talk:NyanSequitur|talk]]) 16:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
:The point is that scientists don't call these trails "chemtrails". Cueball has made that mistaken link. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
I must say that the title-text made me laugh out loud the most. (Also, though I'm sure there's no direct or even impliable link, made me fondly recall Aunt Hillary in {{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach}}, where she does not control or particularly care for her ants and they don't pull ''her'' strings in any way that they 'care' about.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.250|162.158.158.250]] 16:26, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
:But doesn't the queen spread pheromones that control the whole population, and she is not outside thus not affected by the trails left by her workers. So it is not actually so with ants, wasps, bees and termites that they are actually mind controlled by chemicals released by their government? If I'm right the title text is completely wrong on all levels. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
::Obviously the queen can't be directly affected by signals left outside the nest, but equally, workers outside the nest can't be affected by signals from the queen (except inasmuch as they are mediated by other members of the colony). And the queen's behaviour can be modulated by pheromones released inside the nest - such as increasing or decreasing fertility, or changing the pheromones she releases in response. Ultimately, the queen, like any other ant, can only influence the behaviour of those around her, and only does so in response to signals she herself receives - not in some kind of command control, dictatorial way. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 09:07, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Can't quite remember which, but I think there was another comic formatted like this. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.254.165|172.70.254.165]] 17:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)Nafedalbi
:It was [[2036:_Edgelord|2036, the one about graph theory Ph.Ds]]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.103|172.70.178.103]] 18:00, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Does the caption have any relation to [[2609:_Entwives]]? I came to this explainxkcd page after reading the comic because I am not familiar with the word "entomologists". I hope somebody who knows the word can add a paragraph about the caption. --[[User:Batterystaple|Batterystaple]] ([[User talk:Batterystaple|talk]]) 07:30, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
:No, as you can see from the explanation entomologists is one who study insects and this word has been used before in xkcd for that meaning. Nothing to do with Ents. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:34, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Do we need new categories for ants and for chemtrails? I found three other with chemtrails, added to the explanation and I think there is a bunch of ants comics. Added one with an ant researcher as here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Regarding [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2654:_Chemtrails&diff=291978&oldid=291977], there's no need for a trivia section, just put those four links in otherwise empty squarebrackets after the first sentence of that paragraph. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:21, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

"Whether ant-gland secretion signalling is Turing-equivalent was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" and the Placebo video are trivia, but reasons explaining why the term may be annoying are speculation. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.223|172.69.33.223]] 11:37, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, there are three (possibly four) separate editorships that have tried to impose changes to the article in parallel, more or less. Individually quite sensible (I don't agree completely with all of them, but we're no hive-mind so of course I needn't!) but has created a strange flurry of upheavel. I'm certainly not fighting all my own hills. - Though note that I particularly dislike inexplicable bare-[]ed references in this context, especially if it results in <nowiki>[11][12][13][14]</nowiki> type reflinks interupting the flow. I'd rather like to make context-labelled inline links, as part of a proper sentence, for as many holdovers as we can anong those we end up with. But later, maybe. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 12:10, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
: Those [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2654:_Chemtrails&diff=291979&oldid=291978 trivial and speculative links to ant navigation] sources were silly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 12:32, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T12:15:25Z

172.70.211.90: /* Speculation */ prose

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are only informally refered to as chemtrails by biologists.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails," short for "condensation trails," which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations only sometimes arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible in the right conditions under flightpaths, and may have the appearance of some active "spraying" action.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, as general mood-enhancing effects in specific locations,[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible, even after extensive research.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Poisoner_in_Chief/U6iDDwAAQBAJ]

[[Ponytail]] studies chemically-mediated cooperative ant navigation. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" Terminology is often a sore spot for those who study "slave-making" socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites.

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

===Speculation===

Ponytail could be a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner].

==Transcript==

:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

==Trivia==

Chemical signalling for mind control is depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T09:30:43Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ grammar

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts that with the actual ants, where the individual insects instinctively decide how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, relates to the human fear about personal independence being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants is a recurring theme, as well as those that study them, see for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T09:29:55Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ inexplicable?

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts that with the actual ants, where the individual insects instinctively decide how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, relates to the human fear about personal independence being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites,depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants is a recurring theme, as well as those that study them, see for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T09:26:44Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ fix link

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts that with the actual ants, where the individual insects instinctively decide how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, relates to the human fear about personal independence being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as explained in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants is a recurring theme, as well as those that study them, see for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T09:26:22Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ I got your citation right here, pal

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to increase precipitation up to 15%.[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but usually doesn't involve airplanes.[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] Please see also [[1677: Contrails]] — contrail is short for "condensation trail" which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines.

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, possibly as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her drafts entitled, "Navigation by trail gland secretion signalling: vocabulary and grammar," which unbeknownst to her at the time was competing before a peer review panel with another paper by a male rival such as [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" And he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud '''No!!''' [[Randall]] then notes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts that with the actual ants, where the individual insects instinctively decide how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, relates to the human fear about personal independence being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as explained in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."

Ants is a recurring theme, as well as those that study them, see for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]] and [[1677: Contrails]] and was mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T08:53:26Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ grammar, link quota exceeded

2636: What If? 2 Countdown

2022-08-03T04:56:13Z

172.70.211.90: /* Table of the calendar countdown */ comma

{{comic
| number = 2636
| date = June 22, 2022
| title = What If? 2 Countdown
| image = what_if_2_countdown.png
| titletext = If you don't end the 99 Bottles of Beer recursion at N=0 it just becomes The Other Song That Never Ends.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by FOUR SCORE AND 7 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the idea of {{w|advent calendar}}s to the extreme. It uses absurd and obscure ways to measure the amount of time until [[Randall]]'s new book [https://xkcd.com/whatif2 ''What if? 2''] is released, with esoteric units and esoteric numbers. See explanation of each day in the [[#Table of the calendar countdown|table below]]

Some concepts that appear multiple times throughout the calendar are:

* '''{{w|SI prefixes}}''', which can be applied to the beginning of a unit's name to multiply or divide the unit by powers of 10 or 1,000. This is standard for units like meters and grams, but is rarely applied to measurements of time other than when a unit of less than one second is needed, most commonly in various fields of science and engineering such as physics and electronics.
* The '''{{w|Gettysburg Address}}''', a famous speech delivered by U.S. president Abraham Lincoln in 1863, where he began by referring to the signing of the Declaration of Independence taking place "four score and seven years ago". A score is a dated term for the number 20, so "four score and seven" is equivalent to 87.
* A '''dog year''' is traditionally considered to be one-seventh the length of a normal human year, since a dog's overall lifespan is roughly one-seventh of a typical human's. The comic applies this to other units of time, such as minutes and months, each of which is also one-seventh the length of the standard unit. The number 7 (traditionally a "lucky number") is also used in many of the numbers quoted in the calendar.
* Other comparative durations of time that are not normally or usefully applied to day-length multiples. At the top end, there is the age of the universe, at the other there is {{w|Planck units#Planck time|Planck-time}} – with entire durations of periods of human history and the time needed to watch popular TV/film franchises in-between – most of which require a non-trivial multiplier or divisor to bring them to the necessary scale required.
* A '''{{w|baker's dozen}}''' is 13, or one more than a normal dozen. Here, the "baker's" prefix can be applied to any unit by adding an extra one of its constituent parts, like an extra hour added to a day.
* '''{{w|Irrational numbers}}''' like {{w|pi}} (3.14159...), {{w|Euler's number}} or ''e'' (2.71828...), the {{w|golden ratio}} (1.61803...), and the {{w|square root of 2}} (1.41421...). These are all interesting numbers because of their mathematical properties, but very impractical to use as arbitrary measurements of time because they have an endless series of non-repeating decimal digits.
* The teenage dating game '''{{w|Seven minutes in heaven}}'''.
* Rotational and orbital periods of various bodies in the Solar System.
* Finally the song {{w|99 Bottles of Beer}}, is also used twice in the calendar, as the one after a full week and then for the final day before release.

The title text refers to the recursive time period on the final day before release, September 12 where the 99 Bottles of Beer song is song 99 times, but with one less verse every time (so 99 verses the first time, 98 verses the second, 97, 96 ... 2 and 1 the last). If you don't stop when you reach N=0 bottles, the repetition never ends, so that time interval becomes infinite. He then calls it "The Other Song That Never Ends", comparing it to ''{{w|The Song That Never Ends}}''. That song is a repetitive children's song, which is specifically intended to go on forever. The difference is that the Beer song has a natural stopping point at 0, while ''The Song That Never Ends'' is [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEz97RkZT5AhXpk4sKHRs8C2wQyCl6BAgLEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dxz6OGVCdov8&usg=AOvVaw2dI8Q_thXRfS6MUtq1NerU completely repetitive].

===Table of the calendar countdown===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Days left !! Date !! Duration specified !! Duration in days !! Explanation
|-
| 83 || Jun 22 || πe millidecades || 82.03 days || π ≈ 3.14159, ''e'' ≈ 2.718, so πe is about 22.459. A millidecade is 1/1,000 decade, or 1/100 year, or 3.652425 days. Multiplying these results is 82.03 days.
|-
| 82 || Jun 23 || 7 megaseconds || 81.02 days || 7,000,000 seconds. 60*60*24 = 86,400 seconds in a day, so 7,000,000/86,400 ≈ 81.02 days
|-
| 81 || Jun 24 || ''e'' lunar months || 80.27 days || A lunar month ≈ 29.53059 days, ''e'' ≈ 2.718, so 29.53059*2.718 ≈ 80.26 days.
|-
| 80 || Jun 25 || 60 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 79.5 days || {{w|Foucault's pendulum}} demonstrates Earth's revolution, with the one at the latitude of Paris completing a full rotation every 31.8 hours.
|-
| 79 || Jun 26 || 8 milligenerations || 78.89 days || A generation is in general 22-33 years, with a reasonable mid-point of 27; and 8 x 0.001 (milli) x 365.2425 (accounting for leap years) x 27 ≈ 78.89 days
|-
| 78 || Jun 27 || 777,777 dog minutes || 77.16 days || A popular myth is that dogs age 7 times faster than humans, so 1 dog minute equals 1/7 human minutes.
|-
| 77 || Jun 28 || 7! episodes of ''Jeopardy!'' (skipping ads) || 77+ days || 7! = 7x6x5x4x3x2x1 = 5040. The standard episode of ''Jeopardy'' is 22-26 minutes, skipping ads. At 22 minutes each, the total is 110,880 minutes, or exactly 77 days.
|-
| 76 || Jun 29 || 5,000 repeats of ''99 Bottles of Beer'' || 76.39 days || Each verse of {{w|99 Bottles of Beer}} is "''N'' bottles of beer on the wall, ''N'' bottles of beer. Take one down, pass it around, ''N-1'' bottles of beer on the wall." The entire song contains 99 verses. Randall apparently sings this rather slowly at around 72 bpm, taking about 13 seconds per verse. It can be done somewhat faster as [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FITjBet3dio shown here], where the 99 verse takes less than 17.5 minutes for 10.6 second pr verse. Then it would only take two months, or 61 days, 15 days too little.
|-
| 75 || Jun 30 || 5 baker's fortnights || 75 days || A {{w|baker's dozen}} is a dozen (12) plus 1 extra item. Randall has generalized this to adding 1 to any unit. A fortnight is 14 days (or more properly "{{w|Fortnight|fourteen ''nights''}}", by its original use), so a baker's fortnight is 15 days. 5x15 is 75 days.
|-
| 74 || Jul 1 || √2 dog years || 73.79 days || See day 78 (Jun 27). 1.4142 × (365 / 7)
|-
| 73 || Jul 2 || π millivics (1/1000th of Queen Victoria's reign) || 72.97 days || {{w|Queen Victoria}} ruled between 20 June 1837 and 22 January 1901 (23,226 days). 3.14159 × 23.226
|-
| 72 || Jul 3 || 42 drives from NYC to LA (Google Maps estimate) || 71.75 days || According to Google Maps, the drive from New York City to Los Angeles via I-80 W (2789 miles or 4489 km) takes 41 hours.
|-
| 71 || Jul 4 || 1,000 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''|| 70.14 days || Using {{w|Groundhog Day (film)|Groundhog Day's}} 101-minute run time.
|-
| 70 || Jul 5 || 100,000 minutes || 69.44 days || 1,440 minutes per day
|-
| 69 || Jul 6 || 1/10th of Martian year || 68.70 Earth days || Martian sidereal and tropical years both round to 687.0 Earth days
|-
| 68 || Jul 7 || 1,234,567 sound-miles || 67.63 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 67.6349058 days.
|-
| 67 || Jul 8 || 2πe seconds || 66.74 days || 2^(π^e) = 5,766,073 seconds. The order of operations for multiple exponentiation without parentheses is top-first.
|-
| 66 || Jul 9 || 216 beats (Swatch Internet Time) || 65.54 days || A "{{w|.beat}}" is equal to 1/1,000 day.
|-
| 65 || Jul 10 || 1,000 ISS orbits || 64.58 days || Each orbit of the ISS takes 90-93 minutes. Here a value of 93 minutes is used.
|-
| 64 || Jul 11 || 🎵🎶🎵 Five hundred twenty five thousand (base seven) minutes|| 62.88 days || This refers to {{w|radix}}-7 arithmetic: 525,0007 minutes = 90,55210 minutes (5 × 7^5 + 2 × 7^4 + 5 × 7^3). Also references the opening and recurring line "Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes" from {{w|Seasons of Love}}, a song from the musical {{w|Rent (musical)|''Rent''}}, which is also referenced in [[1047: Approximations]]. "Base seven" has the same rhythm as "six hundred".
|-
| 63 || Jul 12 || 1050 Planck times || 62.38 days || 10^50 x 5.39 x 10^-44 seconds. The powers of 10 can be simplified, thus 5.39 × 10^6
|-
| 62 || Jul 13 || 4,000 episodes of ''The Office'' (skipping ads)|| 61.11 days || {{w|The Office (British TV series)|''The Office''}} was originally a {{w|BBC}} television show which had no commercial breaks, so Randall must be referring to the later {{w|The Office (American TV series)|US version}}, which is logical as he's American. This US "half-hour" comedy format contains 22 minutes of content (including the title sequence) and 8 minutes of ads. There are only 201 distinct episodes of the US version, so watching 4,000 episodes would require a lot of re-watching. 
|-
| 61 || Jul 14 || Four score and seven kilominutes || 60.42 days || 87 x 1,000 minutes
|-
| 60 || Jul 15 || 2 lunar months || 59.06 days || There are a number of different ways to define the {{w|lunar month}}. The most common is the synodic month, because it relates to the phases of the moon, and it's approximately 29.53 days.
|-
| 59 || Jul 16 || Half a day on Venus || 58.38 Earth days || A Venus synodic day is 116 days 18 hours.
|-
| 58 || Jul 17 || 5 megaseconds || 57.87 days || 5,000,000 seconds
|-
| 57 || Jul 18 || 30 microLits (1/1,000,000th of the time since the invention of literature) || 57.21 days || 3200 BCE is the approximate date of pre-Sumerian proto-writing as given in {{w|History of writing|Wikipedia's article on the history of writing}}. 5,222 years × 30 × 10-6.
|-
| 56 || Jul 19 || 1,000 viewings of ''Run Lola Run'' || 55.57 days || Using {{w|Run Lola Run|the movie's}} run time of 80 minutes.
|-
| 55 || Jul 20 || One million sound-miles || 54.78 days || The speed of sound in air depends on the temperature. 15 °C or 59 °F gives the value 340 m/s and the travel time of 54.7843137 days.
|-
| 54 || Jul 21 || 30 Ionian months || 53.07 Earth days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is approximately 1.77 days.
|-
| 53 || Jul 22 || One dog year || 52.18 days || See day 78 (Jun 27). 365.2425 / 7
|-
| 52 || Jul 23 || 60 viewings of ''Star Wars Episodes I-IX'' || 51.75 days || According to [https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2021/05/04/how-long-to-watch-every-star-wars-movie/ Fansided] the combined running times are 20 hours 42 minutes.
|-
| 51 || Jul 24 || 1/100,000,000,000th of the universe's age || 50.40 days || The universe is estimated to be about 13.8 billion years old.
|-
| 50 || Jul 25 || 5 milli-generations || 49.3 days || See day 79 (Jun 26). 5 × (27 × 365.2425) / 1,000
|-
| 49 || Jul 26 || 10,000 games of ''7 minutes in Heaven'' or 7 games of ''10,000 minutes in Heaven'' || 48.61 days || {{w|Seven minutes in heaven}} is an Anglo-culture teenager game, occuring in several movies. 10,000 minutes in Heaven is almost a week of making out (or doing whatever) in a closet, so this game is unlikely.{{citation needed}}
|-
| 48 || Jul 27 || φeπ minutes || 47.41 days || Phi (the golden ratio) to the power of e to the power of pi. 1.618 ^ (2.718 ^ 3.14159) = 68,284.14 minutes
|-
| 47 || Jul 28 || 4 megaseconds || 46.30 days || 4,000,000 seconds
|-
| 46 || Jul 29 || 216 minutes || 45.51 days || 65,536 minutes
|-
| 45 || Jul 30 || eee seconds || 44.15 days || 3,814,279.10 seconds
|-
| 44 || Jul 31 || π fortnights|| 43.98 days || 3.14159 x 14 days
|-
| 43 || Aug 1 || One devil's spacewalk (666 orbits of the ISS) || 43.01 days || See day 65 (Jul 10). 666 is the {{w|number of the beast}}. 666 × 93 minutes.
|-
| 42 || Aug 2 || 1 kilowatt-hour per watt || 41.66 days || 1,000 hours
|-
| 41 || Aug 3 || eπ Ionian months || 40.93 Earth days || Orbital period of Io around Jupiter is 1.769137786 days. 2.718 ^ 3.14159 × 1.769
|-
| 40 || Aug 4 || 30 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris || 39.75 days || Refer to Day 80 (Jun 25). Half of that day's 79.5 days, 30 × 31.8 hours 
|-
| 39 || Aug 5 || ''e'' fortnights || 38.06 days ||2.71828 x 14 days
|-
| 38 || Aug 6 || ππ baker's days (25 hours) || 37.98 days || See day 75 (Jun 30). 3.14159 ^ 3.14159 × 25 
|-
| 37 || Aug 7 || One deciyear || 36.52 days || One tenth of one year
|-
| 36 || Aug 8 || 7! milliweeks || 35.28 days || 5,040 × 0.001 weeks
|-
| 35 || Aug 9 || 100,000 plays of the ''Jeopardy!'' "Think" music || 34.72 days || ''Think'' is the music played while the contestants try to answer the Final Jeopardy question; it is 30 seconds long. 30 × 100,000 seconds
|-
| 34 || Aug 10 || 1000 basketball games (game time) || 33.33 days || Uses the NBA game time of four 12-minute quarters, or 48 minutes
|-
| 33 || Aug 11 || 777 hours || 32.38 days || 24 hours per day
|-
| 32 || Aug 12 || One millilincoln (1/1000 of fourscore and seven years) || 31.78 days || {{w|Abraham Lincoln}}'s {{w|Gettysburg Address}} begins with the famous phrase "Four score and seven years ago". 1 score = twenty. 
|-
| 31 || Aug 13 || 1,000 episodes of ''60 Minutes'' (skipping ads) || 30.56 days || A television hour is between 42 and 44 minutes, with the remaining time used by ads. This uses a television 'hour' containing 44 minutes of content and 16 minutes of ads.
|-
| 30 || Aug 14 || All of ''Star Trek'', consecutively || 28.55 days || According to [https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-every-tv-episode-movie/ CBR]  of January 21, 2021, this consists of: 

:3,950 minutes of The Original Series
:528 minutes of The Animated Series
:7,832 minutes of The Next Generation
:7,920 minutes of Deep Space 9
:7,740 minutes of Voyager
:4,116 minutes of Enterprise
:250 minutes of Lower Decks, Season 1
:4,725 minutes of Discovery, the first 3 seasons
:450 minutes of Picard, Season 1
:150 minutes of Short Treks
:688 minutes of The Original Series films
:448 minutes of The Next Generation films
:381 minutes of the three rebooted universe films

In the year and a half since publishing that article, there have been:
:250 minutes of Lower Decks, Season 2
:585 minutes of Discovery, Season 4
:450 minutes of Picard, Season 2
:237 minutes of Prodigy, the first half of Season 1
:411 minutes of Strange New Worlds, up to and including June 23, the day after this comic (8 out of 10 episodes of Season 1)

The last two episodes of Strange New Worlds, taking the franchise until July 7, would add roughly 0.035 of a day each, a negligible difference.
|-
| 29 || Aug 15 || 777,777 nanocenturies || 28.41 days || 777,777 × 10-9 × 100 years.
|-
| 28 || Aug 16 || One sidereal lunar month || 27.3 days || The time it takes moon to return to the same position relative to the fixed stars
|-
| 27 || Aug 17 || 6 dog months || 26.14 days || See day 78 (Jun 27). A month averaging 30.5 days / 7
|-
| 26 || Aug 18 || ππ kilominutes || 25.32 days || 36,462.16 minutes
|-
| 25 || Aug 19 || 7 games of 7! minutes in Heaven || 24.5 days || 7 x 5040 (7 {{w|factorial}}) minutes. See also day 49 (Jul 26).
|-
| 24 || Aug 20 || 50 viewings of the extended ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy || 23.82 days || ''The Fellowship of the Ring'' extended version is 208 minutes, ''The Two Towers'' is 226 minutes, and ''The Return of the King'' is 252 minutes for its extended version, according to [https://fictionhorizon.com/how-long-are-all-the-lord-of-the-rings-and-the-hobbit-movies-combined/ FictionHorizon.com]
|-
| 23 || Aug 21 || A drive from NYC to LA where you keep remembering new things you forgot and have to go back 6 times || 22.21 days || See day 72 (Jul 3). This is for 6 round-trips and 1 one-way trip, so 13 trips at 41 hours each.
|-
| 22 || Aug 22 || ''It's a Small World'' sung at 1/10,000th speed || 21.06 days || {{w|It's a Small World}} is a song that was composed for the attraction of the same name at various {{w|Disney}} theme parks, and plays continuously at them in various languages. The song lasts 12–15 minutes, depending on the language. However, Randall seems to be using a single iteration of the song, such as this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxRW-duSCLA YouTube video] of 3:02, posted by Disney themselves. As such, it's 3:02 × 10,000.
|-
| 21 || Aug 23 || 500 hours || 20.83 days || 24 hours per day, or 0.041678 days per hour
|-
| 20 || Aug 24 || √2 fortnights || 19.80 days || 1.4142 × 14 days
|-
| 19 || Aug 25 || Time it would take Vanessa Carlton to walk 1,000 miles || 18.94 days || {{w|Vanessa Carlton}} is an American singer, and {{w|A Thousand Miles}} is her most successful song. Randall estimates her walking speed at about 2.2 miles/hour. 
|-
| 18 || Aug 26 || 100,000 breaths || 17.36* days || The normal respiratory rate for adults is typically 12-20 breaths per minute, or about 3-5 seconds each. *However, the day length here is for 15 seconds/breath, so Randall may be a practitioner of [https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2018.00353/full slow breathing].
|-
| 17 || Aug 27 || √2 megaseconds || 16.37 days || 1.4142 × 1,000,000 seconds
|-
| 16 || Aug 28 || πππ πcoseconds || 15.51 days || 1.3402 × 1018 picoseconds (i.e., 10-12 seconds), making a joke how the mathematical "pi" is written with the character "π" by using it to spell "picoseconds".
|-
| 15 || Aug 29 || One baker's fortnight (15 days) || 15 days || See day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 14 || Aug 30 || One baker's dozen (13) baker's days (25 hours) || 13.54 days || 325 hours; see day 75 (Jun 30)
|-
| 13 || Aug 31 || 300 hours || 12.5 days || 0.041678 days per hour
|-
| 12 || Sep 1 || One million seconds || 11.57 days || 86,400 seconds per day
|-
| 11 || Sep 2 || One nonstop bike ride from NYC to LA || 10.54 days || Google maps estimates the trip at 253 hours
|-
| 10 || Sep 3 || 1⁄1,000th of a generation || 9.86 days || See day 79 (Jun 26). A generation being taken as 27 years.
|-
| 9 || Sep 4 || 777,777 seconds || 9.002 days || 1.15741 × 10-5 days per second
|-
| 8 || Sep 5 || 100 viewings of ''Groundhog Day'' || 7.01 days || See Day 71 (Jul 4).
|-
| 7 || Sep 6 || 100 games of ''Lincoln Kissing'' (fourscore and seven minutes in Heaven) || 6.04 days || 8,700 minutes
|-
| 6 || Sep 7 || One pico-universe-lifetime || 5.04 days || See Day 51 (Jul 24). 13.8 billion years, "pico" meaning to divide by 1 trillion, thus 13.8 / 1,000.
|-
| 5 || Sep 8 || The ''Baby Shark'' chorus for a family of 50,000 sharks || 4.63 days || The chorus lasts about 8 seconds per 'person'
|-
| 4 || Sep 9 || One centiyear || 3.65 days || 365.2425 days/100
|-
| 3 || Sep 10 || Cyndi Lauper's ''Time After Time'' played 1,000 times || 2.79 days || Based on a length of 4 minutes, 1 second
|-
| 2 || Sep 11 || ''Speed'' (1994) played at one frame per second || 1.9 days || {{w|Speed (1994 film)}} has runtime of 116 minutes = 6,960 seconds = 167,040 film frames at standard frame rate of 24 frames/second
|-
| 1 || Sep 12 || F(99) where F(N) means sing all the verses of ''N Bottles of Beer On the wall'' followed by F(N-1) || 0.76 days || Each iteration contains ''N'' verses. ''N + N-1 + N-2 ... + 1'' equals ''N * (N+1) / 2'', so 99 recursions = 4950 verses. Using the same 13-second (72 bpm) rate as Jun 29, this is close to 18 hours. Probably refers to Donald Knuth's article {{w|The Complexity of Songs}}. This F(99) song is referenced in the title text, see [[#Explanation|explanation]] above.
|-
| 0 || Sep 13 || ''What If? 2'' release day || N/A ||
|}

==Transcript==
:[The comic is a calendar that counts down to a specific date, like a Christmas calendar starting on June 2nd and ending on September 13th (2022). Each day is represented with a large square and there are 12 weeks for a total of 84 days. The days belonging to a particular month are surrounded by a thicker frame than between days from the same month. The first day of each month plus the very first day has the date given with three letters representing the month and the day number. This is written at the top right corner in a frame. All other days either only have the number for the day in the frame in the corner, or, if there are too much text on the day, no number is written. A single day has the number without the frame around it. The very last day notes what the countdown is for and there are three large stars places around the text, as well as smaller and larger dots, likely representing more stars in the entire field. All other days have text on all white background. The text represents a time that fits the time span from that day until the final day. The calendar begins on a Wednesday, and since the calendar week begins on a Sunday, there are three days missing to the left in the top row, and similarly four days are missing to the right in the bottom row as the last day is a Tuesday. Above the calendar is a large heading with a subheading below:]
:<big>Countdown to ''What if? 2''</big>
:(Preorder at xkcd.com/whatif2 to get it at the end of the countdown)

:[The date given, either as written or else mentioned if not written in comic, and then follows the text on that day:]
:Jun 22
::πe millidecades
:23
::7 megaseconds
:24
::e lunar months
:25
::60 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris
:26
::8 milligenerations
:27
::777,777 dog minutes
:28
::7! episodes of ''Jeopardy!'' (skipping ads)
:29
::5,000 repeats of ''99 Bottles of Beer''
:30
::5 baker's fortnights (15 days)
:Jul 1
::√2 dog years
:[Date left out on the 2nd.]
::π millivics (1/1000th of Queen Victoria's reign)
:3
::42 drives from NYC to LA (Google Maps estimate)
:4
::1,000 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''
:5
::100,000 minutes
:6
::1/10th of Martian year
:7
::1,234,567 sound-miles
:8
::2πe seconds
:9
::216 beats (Swatch Internet Time)
:10
::1,000 ISS orbits
:11
::[Four musical notes are shown at the top.]
::Five hundred twenty five thousand (base seven) minutes
:12
::1050 Planck times
:13
::4,000 episodes of ''The Office'' (skipping ads)
:14
::Four score and seven kilominutes
:15
::2 lunar months
:16
::Half a day on Venus
:17
::5 megaseconds
:[Date left out on the 18th.]
::30 microLits (1/1,000,000th of the time since the invention of literature)
:19
::1,000 viewings of ''Run Lola Run''
:20
::One million sound-miles
:21
::30 Ionian months
:22
::One dog year
:23
::60 viewings of ''Star Wars Episodes I-IX''
:24
::1/100,000,000,000th of the universe's age
:25
::5 milli-generations
:[Date left out on the 26th.]
::10,000 games of ''7 minutes in Heaven'' or 7 games of ''10,000 minutes in Heaven''
:27
::φeπ minutes
:28
::4 megaseconds
:29
::216 minutes
:30
::eee seconds
:31
::π fortnights
:Aug 1
::One devil's spacewalk (666 orbits of the ISS)
:2
::1 kilowatt-hour per watt
:3
::eπ Ionian months
:4
::30 rotations of Foucault's pendulum in Paris
:5
::e fortnights
:6
::πe baker's days (25 hours)
:7
::One deciyear
:8
::7! milliweeks
:9
::100,000 plays of the ''Jeopardy!'' "Think" music
:10
::1000 basketball games (game time)
:11
::777 hours
:12
::One millilincoln (1/1000 of fourscore and seven years)
:13
::1,000 episodes of ''60 Minutes'' (skipping ads)
:14
::All of ''Star Trek'', consecutively
:15
::777,777 nanocenturies
:16
::One sidereal lunar month
:17
::6 dog months
:18
::ππ kilominutes
:19
::7 games of ''7! minutes in Heaven''
:20
::50 viewings of the extended ''Lord of the Rings'' trilogy
:[Date left out on the 21th.]
::A drive from NYC to LA where you keep remembering new things you forgot and have to go back 6 times
:[Date left out on the 22nd.]
::''It's a Small World'' sung at 1/10,000th speed
:23
::500 hours
:24
::√2 fortnights
:[Date left out on the 25th.]
::Time it would take Vanessa Carlton to walk 1,000 miles
:26
::100,000 breaths
:27
::√2 megaseconds
:28
::πππ πcoseconds
:29 [The date is not inside a small frame as all other dates shown.]
::One baker's fortnight (15 days)
:30
::One baker's dozen (13) baker's days (25 hours)
:31
::300 hours
:Sep 1
::One million seconds
:2
::One nonstop bike ride from NYC to LA
:3
::1⁄1,000th of a generation
:4
::777,777 seconds
:5
::100 viewings of ''Groundhog Day''
:[Date left out on the 6th.]
::100 games of ''Lincoln Kissing'' (Fourscore and seven minutes in Heaven)
:7
::One pico-universe-lifetime
:8
::The ''Baby Shark'' chorus for a family of 50,000 sharks
:9
::One centiyear
:10
::Cyndi Lauper's ''Time After Time'' played 1,000 times
:[Date left out on the 11th.]
::''Speed'' (1994) played at one frame per second
:[Date left out on the 12th.]
::F(99) where F(N) means sing all the verses of ''N Bottles of Beer On the wall'' followed by F(N-1)
:13
::''What If? 2'' release day

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Book promotion]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Songs]]
[[Category:Animals]]

Talk:2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T16:19:50Z

172.70.211.90: HG2G/Douglas Adams

Do people thing Omnitaur meant to be a anagram? It would make more sense to me suffix taken from minotaur and centaur etc. with the prefix omni meaning all.
[[User:Mouse|Mouse]] ([[User talk:Mouse|talk]]) Mousetail
:I don't think it is meant to be an anagram. Nevertheless it is one. But that's just my gut feeling. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:07, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::There are only those two taurs mentioned and there are many other creatures made from animals with different name. It has both human and bull in it (I know it has all the others as well), but to me it seems obvious that Randall is aware this is an anagram of Mino to Omni. And then of course it encompasses most other mythical creatures, given the meanin of Omni. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:::True, surely he's aware of it. My point is: It's either an anagram that also happens to have the meaning "omni" or it has the meaning "omni" and also happens to be an anagram. My bet is on the latter. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I dread to think what this thing must look like internally. Especially when I remember the centaurs from C S Lewis' 'Narnia' stories, who are depicted eating two meals - a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach" and a meal of grass "to satisfy the horse stomach". Bleagh.[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Well it certainly is an Omnivore (does that mean eating only Omnitaurs then...? :-D ) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If we take a looser definition of 'omnitaur' as meaning 'made of lots of different creatures' (in parallel to how 'omnivore' really means 'eats lots of different things' rather than literally 'eats everything', and in line with only 11 creatures being depicted), then arguably every creature is an omnitaur - it's just that most of them are special cases that happen to be made up of a lot of very similar creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 09:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

1/121 seems nonsense to me. Assume this omnitaur has fairly standard genetics: 11 allele pairs for the several body parts with recessivity being random. All parts must have one human allele (which happens to be recessive), 1/11^10. The human allele must be picked, 1/2^11. More like a trillion chance... [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.193|172.71.98.193]] 10:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:I was just going to post a question: why not (1/11)11? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 10:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:How on earth is that "standard"? [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::Sitting in a rejected-edits file of mine (because I couldn't see how to make it good enough to escape a general nitpick... though not your presence in particular) is the following, that might have been superceded by the Speculations section that was added since:
:::''In order for two omnitaur genomes to contain the ''possibility'' of merging to create a full human, maybe the genetic material is not {{w|Ploidy#Diploid|diploid}}, but {{w|Polyploidy|undecaploid}} (at the very least), leading to each omnitaur to express their own individual and personal distribution of phenotypes from amongst the many heritable traits they have inherited. The reproductive compatibility of any two omnitaurs would be a crap-shoot and might influence what given 'monotaurism' might arise by chance.''
::...be a shame to waste it, but it doesn't really fit as is now, even if I 'correct' it. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.75|108.162.229.75]] 15:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Note: you can't call sharks "fish" without also calling humans, frogs, and eagles "fish" (if you're using the current taxonomic system based on cladistics). The cartilaginous fishes split from bony fishes long before the tetrapods like us split off from the lineage that became trout, flounder, and guppies. That is, a snake is much more closely related to a grouper than a shark is. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
: [https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/california-court-ruling-bees-are-fish-bad-logic-good-humans-rcna32971 According to California courts, bees are fish.] (Spoiler: within the meaning of "Fish and Game" or something like that. Personally I think the judges were trolling because they could have more congruously gone with "game" because it was about honeybees which beekeepers obviously catch.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 13:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Fish are a paraphyletic group, but that doesn't make the group "wrong" by cladistics. Cladistics recognizes that its common for one branch of a group to go off and do something very divergent, and that the remaining members often have a lot of shared characteristics that make it useful to talk about them. For example, "stem mammals", which excludes actual mammals. Cladistics has stronger objections to polyphyly, which is grouping animals together that aren't a cladistic group with some very clear exceptions. It still recognizes the groups though, classifying them as polyphyletic groups. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.82.121|172.71.82.121]] 13:47, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
::^ This editor paraphyletizes. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.163|172.70.206.163]] 14:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The speculation section needs a discussion of how living {{w|turducken}} could be engineered. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:44, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
:Being able to do that would be a great lab qual, but when the spacefairing dinosaurs find out we use them for the culinary arts, is there any hope for galactic peace? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 16:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If HGTTG references are traditional here, ''The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'' had a pig with the mind and vocal tract of a Human so it could articulate how much it wanted to be eaten. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:19, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T03:22:13Z

172.70.211.90: /* Transcript */ cats

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-31T20:03:44Z

172.70.211.90: Typo

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: ... We could do {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application rate as a proxy for {{w|mosquito abatement}} to carry the ecology theme. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 15:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

::: I have questions about the phytoplankton stuff. Is it true that completely carbon negative sequestration could be accomplished with 0.5 micrograms per minute (carbon or carbonate) for each square centimeter of ocean? How can the innoculator be sure the strain is viable but not destructive? Are there any {{w|synthetic biology}} proposals for new carbonate diatoms? Can you guarantee sufficient sinking buoyancy from carbonates alone, or is silicon necessary for sequestration? Won't ocean bottom-feeders or e.g. whales just eat the phytoplankton and return it to the ocean and atmosphere when they die? (There could be worse carbon removal solutions than those providing extra whale food, but I fear keeping it unpalatable to bottom-feeders would require making it hazardous for other ocean life. What was the desalination ocean carbon removal proposal?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: Desalination plus carbon capture: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfV1Q4VE45RmFFeFlPSDlKalctVS1nRlYyY3lR/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-3YeR9jAkROsI0YLf4_07GQ] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfQ0lKOTFuWElQaFk/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-2_EmUy2f7XGIvs6hpeaJdg] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/14igVdhaIhrbHVTN5lI3XfxgNWPsvjNa7] or [https://i.imgur.com/K6j87Lp.png] or [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750583617304322]. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.9|172.69.33.9]] 16:33, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: Is the amount desalinated a good proxy for the mass of carbon sequestered? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.50|172.69.34.50]] 19:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: If you have to fund it by selling the captured carbonate as hydrocarbon fuel, then it's carbon neutral, not carbon negative. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research based on a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-31T20:02:09Z

172.70.211.90: reply

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: ... We could do {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application rate as a proxy for {{w|mosquito abatement}} to carry the ecology theme. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 15:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

::: I have questions about the phytoplankton stuff. Is it true that completely carbon negative sequestration could be accomplished with 0.5 micrograms per minute (carbon or carbonate) for each square centimeter of ocean? How can the innoculator be sure the strain is viable but not destructive? Are there any {{w|synthetic biology}} proposals for new carbonate diatoms? Can you guarantee sufficient sinking buoyancy from carbonates alone, or is silicon necessary for sequestration? Won't ocean bottom-feeders or e.g. whales just eat the phytoplankton and return it to the ocean and atmosphere when they die? (There could be worse carbon removal solutions than those providing extra whale food, but I fear keeping it unpalatable to bottom-feeders would require making it hazardous for other ocean life. What was the desalination ocean carbon removal proposal?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: Desalination plus carbon capture: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfV1Q4VE45RmFFeFlPSDlKalctVS1nRlYyY3lR/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-3YeR9jAkROsI0YLf4_07GQ] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B73LgocyHQnfQ0lKOTFuWElQaFk/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-2_EmUy2f7XGIvs6hpeaJdg] or [https://drive.google.com/file/d/14igVdhaIhrbHVTN5lI3XfxgNWPsvjNa7] or [https://i.imgur.com/K6j87Lp.png] or [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1750583617304322]. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.9|172.69.33.9]] 16:33, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: Is the amount desalinated a good proxy for the mass of carbon sequestered? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.50|172.69.34.50]] 19:44, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::::: If you have to fund it by selling the captured carbonate at hydrocarbon fuel, then it's carbon neutral, not carbon negative. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research based on a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-31T16:16:33Z

172.70.211.90: Withdraw suggestion

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: ... We could do {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application rate as a proxy for {{w|mosquito abatement}} to carry the ecology theme. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 15:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

::: I have questions about the phytoplankton stuff. Is it true that completely carbon negative sequestration could be accomplished with 0.5 micrograms per minute (carbon or carbonate) for each square centimeter of ocean? How can the innoculator be sure the strain is viable but not destructive? Are there any {{w|synthetic biology}} proposals for new carbonate diatoms? Can you guarantee sufficient sinking buoyancy from carbonates alone, or is silicon necessary for sequestration? Won't ocean bottom-feeders or e.g. whales just eat the phytoplankton and return it to the ocean and atmosphere when they die? (There could be worse carbon removal solutions than those providing extra whale food, but I fear keeping it unpalatable to bottom-feeders would require making it hazardous for other ocean life. What was the desalination ocean carbon removal proposal?) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research based on a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-31T15:47:18Z

172.70.211.90: ?

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Desalination doesn't really work here, but we could do {{w|Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis}} application rate as a proxy for {{w|mosquito abatement}} to carry the ecology theme. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.8|172.70.207.8]] 15:08, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

::: I have questions about the phytoplankton stuff. Is it true that completely carbon negative sequestration could be accomplished with 0.5 micrograms per minute (carbon or carbonate) for each square centimeter of ocean? How can the innoculator be sure the strain is viable but not distructtive? Are there any {{w|synthetic biology}} proposals for new carbonate diatoms? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research based on a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-31T14:59:01Z

172.70.211.90: Reply

Maybe Randall is commenting on this recent article [https://www.nature.com/articles/s43588-022-00281-6 Nature Computational Science: Automated discovery of fundamental variables hidden in experimental data]?
02:10, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
suggested by a proxy editor

Might be tangentially related to the alleged Alzheimer's disease drug Aduhelm, the anti-amyloid therapy, that did show some success in proxy variable (biomarker), but no success at all in curing the disease or its symptoms (no efficacy), but which got accepted with a huge amount of controversy by NDA (which disregarded its advisory committee’s recommendation against approving Aduhelm). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 07:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: More relevantly, it came out recently that [https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/7/22/2111914/-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives|the last ~decade and a half of Alzheimer's drug research] is based on monitoring effects in mice on a specific biomarker that ''may not actually exist in humans'', and the initial study was potentially fraudulent. Seems like a damn topical proxy variable to me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.249|162.158.166.249]] 00:56, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
:"It’s not much of a stretch to suggest those amyloids are a primary cause of the associated memory loss and dementia," is the failed proxy hypothesis. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.163|172.69.33.163]] 02:47, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I removed this paragraph:
:''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a scientific way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, blood pressure is a causative factor for cardiovascular disease so it can be used as a proxy variable for healthy lifestyle. However, people need to remember that it isn't necessarily the proxy variable alone that is of concern. Atmospheric carbon dioxide is not the only gas released by humanity with global warming potential and other factors affect climate change; and it is not carbon dioxide but the impact of climate change that will cause major social, economic, cultural damage to the future of the planet. ''
because I want to discuss it. The first sentence needs a source, the second and third sentences claim blood pressure is used by non-scientists as a proxy for living a healthy lifestyle, which I'm not sure about on multiple levels, and the fourth and fifth sentences seem like PR for fossil fuel companies. #notallgreenhousegases Nevertheless, I feel as if there are likely one or two good ideas hidden in it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:I feel like the author doesn't know the work climate scientists go to to avoid using greenhouse gas concentration as a proxy for global warming (all the models of atmospheric water and its forms.) For blood pressure, it's easier to see what was attempted to be gotten at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yes: the ones who dangerously simplify the climate change to "we must stop produce carbon dioxide" are not scientists but politicians. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:Definitely. We don't even KNOW all factors affecting climate change. Still, the link between rising carbon dioxide and temperature looks much more solid that the link between money spent on fighting climate change and levels of carbon dioxide. ... Wait, you didn't wanted to talk about climate did you? :-) (For record, I always though there are much better reasons to stop using fossil fuels than fighting global warming. Recently, for example, the energetic security from geopolitically problematic regions came under lot of attention.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 16:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I want to talk about climate. Do you think we will be able to transition to carbon neutral and negative technologies in time to avoid the {{w|Jevons paradox}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 17:00, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::The Jevons Paradox exists if the only forces affecting the consumption of a resource are supply and demand. If you're asking about carbon-neutral/negative technological process making sustainable technologies profitable faster than fossil fuel profits grow, then no, there's no hope even before the Jevons Paradox is considered. But if other options are considered, the Jevons Paradox doesn't really apply. (To take an extreme example: It doesn't matter how fuel-efficient internal combustion engines get, they'll never be the preferred choice if their manufacture is banned.) [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Only carbon negative technology requires {{w|Carbon-burning_process|5×10^8 K or 50 keV and densities > 3×10^9 kg/m3}}. I think that in the moment we will be using THAT on industrial scale we would be quite desperate. Also, the amount of energy we will need is going to grow unless we reduce population a LOT (like, for example, if all ecological activists would do the carbon responsible thing and commit suicide). Also, more and more of that energy we will need will be specifically electrical energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 20:21, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::We need to remove 38 gigatons per year, which is only 0.7 milligrams per square centimeter of ocean. Think of the mean depth of the ocean: that square centimeter is very tall. From that perspective, isn't this an easy biological solution? That's only 0.5 micrograms per minute, from the full depth of each square centimeter of ocean, right? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 20:47, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::I'm not sure what is the "this" you talk about but it sounds you are only storing carbon, not removing it. BTW, one of best way to store carbon is to make more highways. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:07, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::Where on Earth would you ever want to build 38 gigatons of highways per year? By "this" I mean genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}; in particular modified by changes to {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 23:13, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::Are there enough dissolved minerals in the ocean for that volume, assuming {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 09:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

:Everyone thinks this is about pharmacology, and maybe it is. But I've been taking economics courses this semester, so that's what I think of. "We can't measure this factor directly, so we made up a formula that should let us calculate it (if we've measured all relevant factors correctly and all our other assumptions and theories are valid)" is a pretty common thing in that field. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 18:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: What's the best example, using GDP as a proxy for development? Or something current like using the money supply as a proxy for inflation? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 20:19, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

:This is the remainder from below, apparently objected to:
::''Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.''
:But it's different from the original. Regardless of what my IP address may or may not suggest, I know the original objector to the earliest version does not object to this edited version, because that objector was and is me. However, I have not yet decided whether I think it should be in the explanation. I will let you know when it gets off the main page, like tomorrow, roughly in a day unless Monday morning continues its traditional trend of presenting unexpected immediate commitments. I have to run a long errand tomorrow so let's say Tuesdayish.
:My initial impulse is to add another paragraph from the climate discussion above, and propose it for a subsection or collapse box. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 14:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::How about inserting: "The rate and conditions of {{w|carbonic anhydrase}} expression in genetically modified {{w|phytoplankton}}, such as {{w|diatom}}s intended to sink to the seabed, could be one of many partial proxies for carbon negative direct ocean removal. However, {{w|geoengineering}} success is difficult to measure, and harder to predict, because sometimes even small biological changes in one organism, like modulation of a gene, can have wide-ranging ecosystem effects."
::Not sure where the paragraph break should be. If two paragraphs, try appending a subsection; if one, try the collapse box before the first title text paragraph. If people could contribute other interesting examples of proxies for carbon removal (I remember reading about a desalination process?) that would be awesome. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.43|172.70.214.43]] 14:53, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
::: I'm not sure if you can use proportion of renewables, because of Jevons paradox. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 14:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

;this dude keeps spamming

Sorry for the mild crassness, especially as a new user, but some Nazi f*ck is vandalizing the page. May someone please ban them?{{unsigned ip|172.71.26.59|03:49, 30 July 2022}}

Nah, they're using multiple IPs. Someone could semi-protect it or something but there ain't any mods doing their job it seems.{{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:55, 30 July 2022}}

Where are the mods, anyways?{{unsigned ip|172.71.82.65|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:You can't always count on volunteer authorities. Even us lowly IP address editors can revert vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 04:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::Yeah nah, we need it semi-protected {{unsigned ip|162.158.162.199|04:13, 30 July 2022}}
::: Funny if that were the goal of the vandalism. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 16:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:::: One reason that I don't think it should be the go-to counter-vandalism approach being used. But not for me to say. Whilstsoever I'm capable of intervening ''at least'' as much as any vandal tries to, I support the mod actions (they are there, doing things, BTW).
:::: Without actually tolerating the vandal, we easily outnumber the person concerned (and the very few other spammers/bots that sneak through the clearly effective existing speedbumps) and this means that such nuisance edits are heavily mitigated. If you see the damaged bits then you're either a regular or a very unlucky occasional visitor.
:::: (This morning, I went to revert an ad-spam that I noted had been written over a page-redirect, to be told that someone else had just gotten there before me!)
:::: I've been on far more abused online resources, both web (early days, long before CAPTCHA technology) and elsewhere (having seen how Usenet was both before and after The Eternal September) and the interference here is extraordinarily given the generally open nature of the submission process.
:::: PS. Please do sign your posts ( with <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code> ), if only for the timestamp that makes the to and fro of conversations more understandable... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.221|162.158.34.221]] 19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:The rant gets replaced within two minutes of each revert. Presumably it's done by bot. We need a mod to take action. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 05:15, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Article has been restored but some idiots keep spamming the page with random things. pls do something mods {{unsigned ip|172.70.147.47|03:59, 30 July 2022}}
:it's not "some idiots" it's all one person using different ips. he posted the exact same covid rant several times. i think he's schizophrenic or something and just really wants to be heard --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.40|172.69.69.40]] 04:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::But why here? Like, this is such a weird place to try and be heard, I'm sure even Reddit posts would have more visibility than edits to a webcomic wiki. [[User:NErDysprosium|NErDysprosium]] ([[User talk:NErDysprosium|talk]]) 06:06, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::: Don't underestimate the importance of the can't-get-jokes demographic for PSYOP recruitment. The invasion of Panama might not even have occurred if it weren't for people distracted by cartoons. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.185|172.69.33.185]] 17:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:As one of the admin I can say that I only come here when I have time. Also I'm not as technically skilled as some of the others. But we all just do this as a hobby. At least we are now some active admins, after several years with none... I was just made admin recently. But I can see that both Theusa and Davidy22 has been active, and that Theusa has made some changes to his bot so it also can revert spam. Hope that helps. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2652:_Proxy_Variable&diff=291433&oldid=291400 The protected version has much less text than the last non-vandalized version.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 20:02, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
: Re "The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses." True, but someone should add that is the reason for experiment registration regulations. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 20:17, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
:: I'm placing that version here, in hopes that it can be edited as a proxy for the protected version: [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.229|172.69.33.229]] 20:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
{{cot|Mostly approved (see above) non-vandalized version of the explanation, as further edited}}
In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it results in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies for cardiovascular health.

Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists as they provide a way to indirectly monitor or improve the complex systems that affect their lives. For example, people use local temperature as a rough experiential proxy for the severity of global warming. Economists might mistake GDP for productive or useful development, or mistake the size of the {{w|money supply}} for {{w|price inflation}}. While correlated, the causation implied by such assumptions is very much in doubt, because the GDP increase of demolishing a hospital might conflict with the widespread understanding of development, and while the money supply size is a cause of inflation, there are many other causes.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive. This comic might be referring to the recent discovery of [https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease nearly two decades] of fraudulent {{w|Alzheimer's disease}} research based on a mistaken proxy hypothesis.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret and can be misleading, because even if performed correctly, a {{w|combinatorial explosion}} of possible proxy variables can make traditional {{w|statistical significance}} analysis fail, requiring {{w|F-score}}s or similar measures. The history of pharmaceutical research is largely a graveyard of failed proxy hypotheses; that is one of the reasons for [https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/manage-recs/fdaaa experiment registration regulations.]

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could also be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."
{{cob}}
:That such improvements are withheld from the main public view must feel like a victory for the vandal. Can autoconfimed users promote it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 23:08, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have added the above except the "Proxy variables are of interest to non-scientists" part as there was someone explaining why this was removed above here. I will thus not be the one putting it back in.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Is anyone going to comment that all of us IP editors are listed by our CDN proxy address? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 20:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T22:20:42Z

172.70.211.90: Common name

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T22:19:26Z

172.70.211.90: Common name

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T20:02:32Z

172.70.211.90: Protection loss

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T16:39:49Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ blood pressure for cardiovascular health

{{comic
| number = 2652
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PROXY BOT IN NO WAY RELATED WITH THE ORIGINAL BOT, SO MARRIAGE WOULD BE ETHICALLY AND LEGALLY ACCEPTABLE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In this comic, [[Hairy]] is discussing use of a proxy variable with [[Cueball]]. In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent. For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so researchers might test for a proxy outcome instead, like whether it does not result in loss of bone density or damage to cells. Physicians use blood pressure as one of many proxies of cardiovascular health.

Hairy is dismissing the question of whether they are studying the right variable as too expensive to answer. This is deeply ironic and thus satirical, because good {{w|experiment design}} requires sufficient attention to the robustness of all the involved parts of an experiment, even if the expense may be prohibitive.

Choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research misleading, irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question. Separating correlation from {{w|Causality|causation}} is necessary when interpreting proxy variable results to make sure the question they answer is known. Mere correlation instead of {{w|Causal analysis|authentic causation}} yields weaker results. {{w|Exploratory causal analysis}} can assist with finding useful proxy variables, but is difficult for the layperson to interpret, and can be misleading.

The title text's notion of having an answer without knowing the actual question could be be a reference to the classic comedy science fiction novel {{w|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy|The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy}}, where in one scene Earth turns out to be a supercomputer built for the purpose of figuring out the question for the answer "42."

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy uses a pointer to show Cueball a poster of a line chart above a candlestick chart. The drawing appears to show a time series with a question mark for future extrapolation, and a box-and-whiskers plot comparing two variables.]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.

:[Cut the panel in half so you can only see Hairy and the poster.]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.

:[Cueball and Hairy are standing with the poster out of frame.]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T16:37:16Z

172.70.211.90: Reply

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T03:53:33Z

172.70.211.90: Wikilink

{{comic
| number = 1337
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PROXY BOT IN NO WAY CORRELATED WITH THE ORIGINAL BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is one used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy is showing Cueball a poster of a graph]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.

:[Cut the panel in half so you can only see Hairy and the poster]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.

:[Cueball and Hairy are standing with the poster out of frame]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T03:49:56Z

172.70.211.90: Start explanation

{{comic
| number = 1337
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PROXY BOT IN NO WAY CORRELATED WITH THE ORIGINAL BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In statistics, a proxy variable is one used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy is showing Cueball a poster of a graph]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.

:[Cut the panel in half so you can only see Hairy and the poster]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.

:[Cueball and Hairy are standing with the poster out of frame]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

2651: Air Gap

2022-07-29T06:40:26Z

172.70.211.90: /* Explanation */ term

{{comic
| number = 2651
| date = July 27, 2022
| title = Air Gap
| image = air_gap.png
| titletext = You can still do powerline networking, but the bitrate does drop a little depending on the lightbulb warmup and cooldown delay.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an AIR GAP-PROTECTED BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
The comic conflates the concepts of computer network security and home electrical power safety to comical effect, resulting in a deeply impractical and ineffective proposed solution. In {{w|computer security}}, {{w|Air_gap_(networking)|air-gapping}} is a measure used to secure sensitive computers or networks of computers by isolating them from the broader internet, since computers are often breached through the internet. {{w|Energy security}} is the concern, typically expressed at a national, rather than domestic, level, with ensuring sufficient affordable and reliable sources of energy to meet demand. It has become an increasingly pressing issue due to the use of energy supplies as a geopolitical tool, exacerbated by the drive to reorient energy generation away from polluting fossil fuels. {{w|Lightning protection}} is a home fire safety practice. {{w|Power analysis}} in computer security is a form of {{w|side-channel attack}} where the attacker observes and/or manipulates the power use by a device for some reason — for example, to gain insight into an otherwise protected process, or to exfiltrate information without having to use a monitored network connection. Power analysis in fire safety means measuring the {{w|power factor}}, volts, and watts of electrical circuits.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the security of your home power supply by air-gapping it, using the light from a powered lightbulb to power a solar panel which then supplies power to the home, such that there is no physical wired connection between your house and the public electricity network. This is a large and very inefficient version of an {{w|opto-isolator}}, but would protect equipment behind the solar panel from power surges such as lightning strikes (which in an improperly {{w|Ground (electricity)|grounded}} home could blow out the light bulb, but not so easily risk frying the equipment beyond the photovoltaic cell and its inverter). Due to its inefficiency, this approach would waste substantial amounts of energy, and therefore actually worsen problems of energy security.

The title text mentions that a computer can still be connected to the internet via the power supply by using {{w|powerline networking}}, but that the bandwidth would be reduced by the lightbulb's warmup and cooldown delay, which would reduce the signalling rate the lightbulb could accomplish. However, this is incorrect, as the solar panel cannot emit signals, and an unidirectional link is useless for traditional networking, because necessary requests and acknowledgments would be unable to travel from behind the solar panel to the lightbulb. Early {{w|communication satellite}} systems for data networking used high bandwidth unidirectional {{w|downlink}}s paired with low bandwidth ground telephone lines for outbound transmission, but such network configurations remain very uncommon.{{cn}}

Randall is seemingly unaware of {{w|isolation transformer}}s which serve to allow the transfer of power via changing {{w|electromagnetic field}}s without an electrically conductive path. Most transformers, including "wall wart" power adapters, provide this form of isolation and protect devices from noise, voltage transients, most surges, and shock hazard, with fuses and other circuitry. They also limit powerline networking bandwidth by filtering high frequencies.

===Why this would be inefficient and impractical===

* Even energy-efficient LED lightbulbs are only about 35% efficient at turning electricity into light, with the rest emitted as heat.
* The air gap is inefficient at passing light from the bulb to the panel, causing some of the light from the lightbulb to be lost to places other than the solar panel, such as to the eye of the observer. A rough guess might be that in the configuration shown less than 60% of light produced will reach the panel, even assuming a perfect reflector.
* Solar panels are generally around 20% efficient at converting light into electricity, with claims at the world record from a single light source at around 40%.

All these efficiency-reducing factors, and others, multiply together. Therefore, only a small fraction of energy would be transmitted between the two ends of the air gap, making the circuit require much more electricity and be much less cost-efficient. (for instance the generous assumptions above lead to 96% of the power being lost)

The solution as illustrated shows a single apparently-normal lightbulb, the highest-powered of which use under 50 Watts of power. Given the above efficiency issues, it would provide less than five Watts of power to a home which would typically require over a thousand Watts.

==Transcript==
:[A solar panel and a lamp are pictured together, with the lamp pointed at the solar panel, and electronic equipment connected to the solar panel. Lines point outward from the bulb, indicating that it is shining.]
:[Caption below the panel]
:Energy tip: Increase the security of your home power supply by installing an air gap.
{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Computer security]]

2651: Air Gap

2022-07-28T06:39:49Z

172.70.211.90: /* Transcript */ box