explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

2166: Stack

2024-10-30T13:14:19Z

172.70.85.101: /* Explanation */ Could do with more (or more relatable) linkable examples, for each stage.

{{comic
| number = 2166
| date = June 21, 2019
| title = Stack
| image = stack.png
| titletext = Gotta feel kind of bad for nation-state hackers who spend years implanting and cultivating some hardware exploit, only to discover the entire target database is already exposed to anyone with a web browser.
}}

==Explanation==

In software engineering, a {{w|Solution stack|tech stack}} is the set of technology platforms and tools that a company or app uses. A common tech stack is {{w|LAMP (software bundle)|GLAMP}}, composed of a {{w|Linux|GNU/Linux}} {{w|Operating system|operating system}}, an {{w|Apache HTTP Server|Apache}} {{w|Web server}}, a {{w|MySQL}} {{w|database}}, and the {{w|PHP}} programming language.

In this instance, all of the layers represent systems which have been subverted or compromised ("cracked") by various entities, instead of various software technologies. The stack resembles an OSI network architecture, with an eighth layer added representing the user itself.

'''Compromised by a customer:''' The user experience, above the OSI layers. Compromised by users doing something wrong or ill-advised.

'''Compromised by a former employee:''' In the OSI model, this would be the application layer. The application may include a hidden spyware in its codebase. An example of such a compromise, or the following, is that which involved the {{w|Desjardins Group#2019 data breach|Desjardins Group}}.

'''Compromised by a current employee:''' This is the presentation layer. See above. Possibly compromised by a mistake of a current inexperienced employee.

'''Compromised by Bitcoin miners:''' This is the session layer, where SSL historically resided. Cryptographic exploits may cause compromise of whole communication. Examples of compromise: Dozens of bitcoin mining viruses, and the main challenge of Bitcoin itself (reversal of SHA-2 256).

'''Compromised by unknown hackers:''' This is the transport layer. IP and port spoofing is a possible compromise.

'''Compromised by our own government:''' This is the network layer. It refers to communication intercepts by governments. Examples of compromise: Cisco (for US citizens)

'''Compromised by a foreign government:''' This is the data link layer. This layer may be compromised by malrouting packets. Examples of compromise: Huawei (for non-Chinese citizens)

'''Massive undiscovered hardware vulnerability:''' This is the physical layer. An undiscovered hardware vulnerability may cause compromises further up in the stack. Examples of compromises:
{{w|Intel Management Engine}}, {{w|Meltdown (security vulnerability)|Meltdown}}, {{w|Row hammer}}

In the title text, Randall expresses sympathy for a situation where someone spends a significant length of time on something that then becomes completely unnecessary. In this case, it's the state-sponsored hackers who develop an exploit of some hardware component, which then becomes completely useless because the target database on that hardware is totally open anyway to anyone with a web browser (which is essentially everyone). While he's not suggesting he agrees with their hacking, he has some sympathy for their wasted effort.

==Transcript==
:[Single-panel with a label at the top and 8 box layers stacked vertically, with in and out arrows at the top representing normal data flow and an arrow out of each box to the left or right representing exploit data flow]
:The Modern Tech Stack
:*Compromised by a customer (arrow to the right)
:*Compromised by a former employee (arrow to the left)
:*(separator)
:*Compromised by a current employee (arrow to the right)
:*Compromised by bitcoin miners (arrow to the right)
:*Compromised by unknown hackers (arrow to the left)
:*(separator)
:*Compromised by our own government (arrow to the right)
:*Compromised by a foreign government (arrow to the left)
:*Massive undiscovered hardware vulnerability (arrow to the right)

==Trivia==
Comic [[1636: XKCD Stack]] also has a hypothetical technology stack, with farcical layers.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Computers]]
[[Category:Programming]]

Talk:1049: Bookshelf

2024-10-29T13:07:01Z

172.70.85.101: An aside on "far right", "far left", and being "a huge asshole to everyone".

Rig this up to the entire twilight section. Problem solved. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 13:57, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Does ''Atlas Shrugged'' have any particular relevance to the strip? [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 02:14, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
::Ayn Rand is pretty controversial, and a lot of people dismiss her books outright. Some of them are an interesting read, though. {{unsigned|217.28.5.48}}

There is a factual inaccuracy in the explanation here — her philosophy is libertarian, not conservative. Please fix that. [[Special:Contributions/46.150.103.149|46.150.103.149]] 14:47, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

"far-right" ??? This very subjective and insulting. But I guess it's the aim of such assertion. [[Special:Contributions/109.255.215.93|109.255.215.93]] 07:47, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
Another inaccuracy: Rand herself found the Libertarians, like any political party, to be counterintuitive to her philosophy of Objectivism. Though I think "libertarian" should be changed to "objectivism," I'll leave it and just make a side-note, because one could say that Atlas Shrugged is to Libertarians as the Bible is to Christians. [[User:Jinx|Jinx]] 20:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree, Objectivism is a philosophy, Libertarianism is a political movement. Although the two have a few overlaps, they are very different things. Rand was adamantly opposed the Libertarian Party and and wrote quite a bit about her objections. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.175|173.245.54.175]] 23:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Does Libertarianism have anything to do with this strip? Why is it included [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.156|173.245.50.156]] 21:24, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

As a communist, I love this one :D[[User:International Space Station|International Space Station]] ([[User talk:International Space Station|talk]]) 15:56, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Reading Atlas Shrugged right now. Randal's political beliefs would probably place him among the villains of the piece, a comic criticizing an influential work based on taste might place him there as well. Doesn't matter, my terrible tastes lead to me reading Atlas shrugged and xkcd so... careful Randal. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.6.94|172.69.6.94]] 14:12, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

All you guys in talk:

Proverb
a hit dog will holler

(US) An offended or defensive response to a statement suggests that the statement applies to the person complaining. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.38.120|172.68.38.120]] 02:27, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

"Far right" is broadly similar to "far left"; "far right" only means "further right than I am", and "far left" means "further left than I am", so in effect everybody is one or the other. Not that it matters which one you are, because they're much of a muchness. Both extremes want power, both extremes think the other lot is rigging the election; and neither extreme believes itself to be an extreme. People who dismiss a political view as "far right" or "far left" do so because they don't want people to think it over for themselves. Both labels have long since lost their usefulness, because they have become knee-jerk insults. If we really want to know what's true, we should look beyond vacuous labels, because that's how we can avoid being "a huge asshole to everyone". (Here endeth the lesson.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.101|172.70.85.101]] 13:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

3001: Temperature Scales

2024-10-24T15:01:59Z

172.70.85.101: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3001
| date = October 21, 2024
| title = Temperature Scales
| image = temperature_scales_2x.png
| imagesize = 740x535px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = In my new scale, °X, 0 is Earths' record lowest surface temperature, 50 is the global average, and 100 is the record highest, with a linear scale between each point and adjustment every year as needed.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an EXPONENTIAL TEMPERATURE SYSTEM. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

Since the invention of the {{w|thermometer}}, a number of different {{w|temperature}} scales have been proposed. In modern times, most of the world uses {{w|Celsius}} for everyday temperature measurements. A small number of countries (the USA and {{w|Territories of the United States|its territories}}, the Bahamas, Belize, the Cayman Islands, Liberia, and Palau) retain the {{w|Imperial units|imperial system}}, which uses the {{w|Fahrenheit}} scale, which preceded Celsius by just under two decades. The other widely used temperature scale is {{w|kelvin}}s, which uses the same scale as degrees Celsius, but is rooted at {{w|absolute zero}}, making it both useful in scientific calculations and easy to convert to and from °Celsius (which, along with °Fahrenheit, is now officially defined relative to kelvins.) Kelvins have been part of the widely adopted official {{w|metric system}} since 1954. Even in countries that use Fahrenheit, scientific measurements are usually done in degrees Celsius or kelvins.

The comic compares these scales, and a number of others, on [[Randall]]'s scale of "cursedness." The joke is highlighting how different the temperature scales are, and how impractical most of them are. All of the listed scales are real, but may be considered obsolete to varying degrees. Please see also [[1923: Felsius]], a combination of degrees Fahrenheit and Celsius.

{| class=wikitable
! scope="col" | Unit
! scope="col" | Water freezes
! scope="col" | Water boils
! scope="col" | Notes
! scope="col" | Cursedness
! scope="col" | Explanation
|-
| {{w|Celsius}} || 0 || 100 || Used in most of the world || 2/10 || The Celsius (°C) scale was devised by Swedish astronomer {{w|Anders Celsius}} in 1742 (as described later) and revised to its current orientation in 1745, a year after his death. 0°C represents the freezing point of water and 100°C represents the boiling point, both under {{w|standard atmospheric pressure}}. For some time re-recognised in terms of the {{w|Triple point#Triple point of water|triple point of water}}, the Celsius scale is now defined entirely in terms of the kelvin scale and its own benchmarks. By the given "cursedness," it is regarded as one of the least problematic temperature scales, but still considered cursed.
|-
| {{w|Kelvin}} || 273.15 || 373.15 || 0K is absolute zero || 2/10 || Kelvin (written with a lowercase 'k' in its full name; or as the symbol 'K', without the degrees symbol '°', unlike most other temperature units) is a unit of temperature devised by {{w|Lord Kelvin}} in 1848. It uses the same scale as Celsius but is shifted by 273.15 to set absolute zero at 0K (based on the {{w|Boltzmann constant}}.) While the kelvin is very useful for calculations in {{w|thermodynamics}} and material physics, and engineers/scientists like Randall (who rates it here as minimally cursed) will probably use one or both of kelvin and Celsius, it can be unintuitive to lay-persons unfamiliar with its use.
|-
| {{w|Fahrenheit}} || 32 || 212 || Outdoors in most places is between 0–100 || 3/10 || Fahrenheit (°F) is officially used in a few countries and informally in several others. It originated in a time when factors of 360 were favored in science over powers of ten, which is why the freezing and boiling points of water are set 180° apart. Devised around 1724, {{w|Daniel Fahrenheit}} chose not to base 0° on the freezing point of water, instead setting it at the coldest temperature he could achieve: the freezing point of an {{w|ammonium chloride}} {{w|brine}} solution. Although these reference points are now considered arbitrary and outdated by modern scholars (and the original brine solution freezes at a value other than zero in more recent versions), the scale gained popularity especially in Anglophone countries, likely because a swathe of everyday weather conditions across the anglophonic world fall (mostly) within the range of 0–100°F, with those who already frequently use it for such purposes considering it more intuitive. Additionally, 100°F is {{w|Human body temperature#Historical understanding|conveniently close to}} normal human body temperature, as a related coincidence, even though initial estimates had set it to 90°F. The Fahrenheit scale remains commonly used only in Randall's home country (the U.S., and its territories), the Bahamas, Belize, the Cayman Islands, Liberia and Palau. This does not prevent Randall specifying it as marginally more cursed than the more global standards.
|-
| {{w|Réaumur scale|Réaumur}} || 0 || 80 || Like Celsius, but with 80 instead of 100 || 3/8 || Abbreviated as °Ré, this system devised by {{w|René Antoine Ferchault de Réaumur}} in 1730 was used in some places until the early 20th century, mostly for cheese-making. The rating (3/8) is a joke on the boiling point of water in this system being 80 instead of 100 as it is in Celsius; converting this to an out-of-ten scale would give 3.75/10, labeling it as more cursed than Fahrenheit but less so than Rømer.
|-
| {{w|Rømer scale|Rømer}} || 7.5 || 60 || Fahrenheit precursor with similarly random design || 4/10 || Abbreviated as °Rø, this scale was created by the Danish astronomer {{w|Ole Rømer}} around 1702. Much like Fahrenheit, it uses the freezing point of ammonium chloride brine as the benchmark for 0°, and the scale is built with factors of 360 in mind with the boiling point of pure water at 60°. Like the Fahrenheit scale, the freezing point of pure water was not originally considered significant by Rømer, but the scale was later updated to fix it to 7.5.
The Rømer scale is also considered the common predecessor of both the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales. Réaumur was inspired by Rømer's scale, Celsius based his work on Réaumur and Fahrenheit specifically designed his scale with more divisions than Rømer's to reduce the necessity for fractions.
|-
| {{w|Rankine scale|Rankine}} || 491.7 || 671.7 || Fahrenheit, but with 0°F [''sic;'' should be 0°R] set to absolute zero || 6/10 || The Rankine scale (°Ra), devised in 1859 by {{w|William Rankine}}, is to Fahrenheit what kelvin is to Celsius, an absolute scale rather than a relative one. The scale is mostly obsolete, but is still occasionally used in legacy industrial operations where absolute temperature scales are required. It is described as more cursed than the otherwise identical Fahrenheit scale, despite being rooted at a more universal zero point. Another comic, [[2292: Thermometer]], expresses disdain for this scale.
|-
| {{w|Newton scale|Newton}} || 0 || 33-ish || Poorly defined, with reference points like "the hottest water you can hold your hand in" || 7-ish/10 || The famous scientist and mathematician {{w|Isaac Newton}} published this scale in 1701, which was referred to by the the °N symbol. Sadly, the degrees of temperature specified do not correlate exactly with amounts of {{w|heat}}. The cursedness rating (7-ish/10) is a joke about the vagueness of the scale's definition. Very few scientists other than Newton ever used this scale,{{cn}} but it did appear on commercial thermometers around 1758.[https://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10413117&wwwflag=&imagepos=43]
|-
| {{w|Wedgwood scale|Wedgwood}} || –8 || –6.7 || Intended for comparing the melting points of metals, all of which it was very wrong about || 9/10 || Created by the potter {{w|Josiah Wedgwood}} in 1782, the '°W' scale was based on the shrinking of clay when heated above red heat, but was found to be very inaccurate. The comic has a typo, as the scale is called Wedgwood, without the second 'e'.
|-
| Galen || –4? || 4?? || Runs from –4 (cold) to 4 (hot). 0 is "normal"(?) || 4/–4 || The Greek physician {{w|Galen}} suggested a "neutral" temperature around 180 A.D.,[https://www.loebclassics.com/view/galen-temperaments/2020/pb_LCL546.3.xml] } when he was a prominent physician in the {{w|Roman Empire}}. Created by mixing equal parts of boiling water and ice, on either side of this neutral point he described four degrees of heat and four degrees of cold. This range from +4 to –4 is humorously used as its rating, implying -100% cursedness. Technically this makes it the least cursed of all the listed scales, but the idea of negative cursedness (or cursedness itself) would be Randall's invention. There is no standard modern abbreviation for Galen's scale.
|-
| {{w|Celsius#History|''Real'' Celsius}} || 100 || 0 || In Anders Celsius's original 1742 specification, bigger numbers are ''colder''; others later flipped it || 10/0 || Most scales' temperatures can be indefinitely large, but have an absolute minimum temperature. By starting at a maximum value and counting down, this scale is indeed cursed, as nearly all possible temperatures (possibly to the equivalent of 1.42x1032K, considered [https://doi.org/10.4236/jamp.2024.1210198 the maximum attainable physical temperature]) will be negative in this implementation. The cursedness rating (10/0) is a joke on the scale "flipping" the fixed points of modern Celsius. Division by zero is strictly undefined (see [[2295: Garbage Math]]) and may be interpreted in a number of counter-intuitive ways.
The original logic was that zero could be easily calibrated to the height of a column of mercury at the temperature of boiling water, and further measurements then made of the amount it ''reduced'' in height under cooler conditions. This orientation survives in the historic {{w|Delisle scale}} devised in 1732 by French astronomer {{w|Joseph-Nicolas Delisle}}, which arguably inspired the Celsius scale. The scale originally used by Professor Celsius was only changed, after his death, in 1745. Delisle's scale was never reversed.
|-
| [https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/459851/john-daltons-temperature-scale#459863 Dalton] || 0 || 100 || A nonlinear scale; 0°C and 100°C are 0 and 100 Dalton, but 50°C is 53.9 Dalton || 53.9/50 || {{w|John Dalton}} proposed a logarithmic temperature scale in 1802 during his work on what became {{w|Charles's Law}}. The scale is defined so that absolute zero is at negative infinity, with the exponent chosen to match Celsius at 0 and 100:
<center>Dalton = 320.55 × {{w|Natural logarithm|''ln''(}} (Celsius + 273.15) / 273.15)</center>
<center>Celsius = 273.15 × ''e''(Dalton / 320.55) - 273.15</center>
There is no standard abbreviation for Dalton's scale. While Dalton temperature is defined for all positive and negative numbers, the nonlinear scale is difficult to work with since the amount of heat represented by a change of one degree Dalton is not constant. Degrees Dalton differs from Celsius by as much as 3.9 degrees between 0 and 100, but diverges much more for more extreme temperatures.

The rating (53.9/50) is a joke about the unit, as 53.9 Dalton would be 50 degrees Celsius — i.e., the cursedness could be understood as 50/50, or entirely cursed, but perhaps instead as 107.8% (even more than entirely) cursed.
|-
| °X || 42.9 || 151.4 || '''Title text:''' "In my new scale, °X, 0 is Earths' [sic] record lowest surface temperature, 50 is the global average, and 100 is the record highest, with a linear scale between each point and adjustment every year as needed." || Randall has not stated the cursedness of his new scale || The {{w|Lowest temperature recorded on Earth|record lowest surface temperature on Earth}} as of 2024 is –89.2°C (–128.6°F), recorded at the {{w|Vostok Station|Vostok Research Station}} in Antarctica on July 21, 1983.[https://wmo.asu.edu/content/world-lowest-temperature] The average surface temperature as of 2023, the most recent available, is 14.8°C (58.6°F.)[https://climate.copernicus.eu/climate-indicators/temperature] The {{w|Highest temperature recorded on Earth|record highest temperature}} is 56.7°C (134.1°F), recorded on July 10, 1913 at {{w|Furnace Creek, California|Furnace Creek Ranch}} in Death Valley, California.[https://wmo.asu.edu/content/world-highest-temperature]

"Surface" temperatures are measured at 1.5 meters above ground inside a shaded shelter, to accurately represent the temperature of the air, because temperatures closer to the ground are often quite different due to the heating effects by sunlight (or a lack of them, at night or under cloud), and how that may influence the rate of melting/evaporation of any precipitation. The heat directly retained by the ground (or the lack of it) is an important consideration, as is that held in bodies of water, but can be accounted for in the regional weather model, without letting it disrupt and smudges the finer details necessary when tracking the more rapid atmospheric effects of laterally moving isotherms.

{{cot|Derivation and graph}}
To break the scale into two linear parts (below and above 14.8°C), we define two separate equations for each range:

1. Below 14.8°C (from –89.2°C to 14.8°C):
* 0 °X corresponds to –89.2°C
* 50 °X corresponds to 14.8°C

We calculate the slope m₁:

<center>m₁ = (50 – 0) / (14.8 – (–89.2)) = 50 / (14.8 + 89.2) = 50 / 104 ≈ 0.48</center>

Now, using the point (14.8°C, 50 °X), we calculate the intercept b₁:

<center>50 = 0.48 × 14.8 + b₁</center>

<center>50 = 7.1 + b₁</center>

<center>b₁ = 50 – 7.1 = 42.9</center>

Thus, the equation for temperatures '''below 14.8°C''' is:

<center>'''X = 0.48 × C + 42.9'''</center>

2. Above 14.8°C (from 14.8°C to 56.7°C):
* 50 °X corresponds to 14.8°C
* 100 °X corresponds to 56.7°C

We calculate the slope m₂:

<center>m₂ = (100 – 50) / (56.7 – 14.8) = 50 / 41.9 ≈ 1.19</center>

Now, using the point (14.8°C, 50 °X), we calculate the intercept b₂:

<center>50 = 1.19 × 14.8 + b₂</center>

<center>50 = 17.6 + b₂</center>

<center>b₂ = 50 – 17.6 = 32.4</center>

Thus, the equation for temperatures '''above 14.8°C''' is:

<center>'''X = 1.19 × C + 32.4'''</center>

;Freezing and boiling points of water

Freezing point of water (0°C): Since 0°C is below 14.8°C, we use the equation X = 0.48 × C + 42.9:

<center>X = 0.48 × 0 + 42.9 = 42.9</center>

So, '''the freezing point is 42.9 °X.'''

Boiling point of water (100°C): Since 100°C is above 14.8°C, we use the equation X = 1.19 × C + 32.4:

<center>X = 1.19 × 100 + 32.4 = 119 + 32.4 = 151.4</center>

So, '''the boiling point is 151.4 °X.'''

[[File:XvsC.png|400px|center]]

See also [[2701: Change in Slope]] for a general discussion of separate linear scales between three points.
{{cob}}
Due to high temperature records now being increased almost every year as a result of {{w|climate change}}, and average temperatures (trending upwards) subject to their own annual fluctuations, Randall's new °X scale must be re-calibrated each year. While extreme values like absolute zero or the {{w|Tungsten#Physical properties|melting point of tungsten}} will shift more significantly over time, everyday temperatures will vary less.
|}

=== Trivia ===

Here are the {{w|room temperature}}, water freezing and boiling, {{w|body temperature}}, recommended refridgerator and freezer, warm bath, and hot coffee temperature values for those scales:

{| class=wikitable style="text-align: center;"
! Unit scale
! Room temperature
! Water freezing
! Water boiling
! Body temperature
! Recommended refrigerator
! Recommended freezer
! Warm bath
! Hot coffee
|-
| Celsius || 22°C || 0°C || 100°C || 37°C || 2.5°C || -18°C || 39°C || 77°C
|-
| Kelvin || 295K || 273K || 373K || 310K || 276K || 255K || 312K || 350K
|-
| Fahrenheit || 72°F || 32°F || 212°F || 98.6°F || 36.5°F || -0.4°F || 102°F || 171°F
|-
| Réaumur || 17.6°Ré || 0°Ré || 80°Ré || 29.6°Ré || 2°Ré || -14.4°Ré || 31.2°Ré || 61.6°Ré
|-
| Rømer || 19.1°Rø || 7.5°Rø || 60°Rø || 26.9°Rø || 8.8°Rø || -2°Rø || 28°Rø || 47.9°Rø
|-
| Rankine || 531°Ra || 492°Ra || 672°Ra || 558°Ra || 496°Ra || 459°Ra || 562°Ra || 630°Ra
|-
| Newton || 7.3°N || 0°N || 33°N || 12.2°N || 0.8°N || -5.9°N || 12.9°N || 25.4°N
|-
| Wedgwood || -7.7°W || -8°W || -6.7°W || -7.5°W || -8°W || -8.2°W || -7.5°W || -7°W
|-
| Galen || -2.2 || -4 || 4 || -1 || -3.8 || -5.4 || -0.9 || 2.2
|-
| Real Celsius || 78 || 100 || 0 || 63 || 98 || 118 || 61 || 23
|-
| Dalton || 24.8 || 0 || 100 || 40.7 || 2.9 || -21.9 || 42.8 || 79.6
|-
| °X || 59°X || 43°X || 151°X || 76.4°X || 44.1°X || 34.3°X || 78.8°X || 124°X
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:Temperature Scales

:[A table with five columns, labelled: Unit, water freezing point, water boiling point, notes, cursedness. There are eleven rows below the labels.]

:[Row 1:] Celsius, 0, 100, Used in most of the world, 2/10
:[Row 2:] Kelvin, 273.15, 373.15, 0K is absolute zero, 2/10
:[Row 3:] Fahrenheit, 32, 212, Outdoors in most places is between 0–100, 3/10
:[Row 4:] Réaumur, 0, 80, Like Celsius, but with 80 instead of 100, 3/8
:[Row 5:] Rømer, 7.5, 60, Fahrenheit precursor with similarly random design, 4/10,
:[Row 6:] Rankine, 491.7, 671.7, Fahrenheit, but with 0°F set to absolute zero, 6/10
:[Row 7:] Newton, 0, 33-ish, Poorly defined, with reference points like "the hottest water you can hold your hand in", 7-ish/10
:[Row 8:] Wedgewood, –8, –6.7, Intended for comparing the melting points of metals, all of which it was very wrong about, 9/10
:[Row 9:] Galen, –4?, 4??, Runs from –4 (cold) to 4 (hot). 0 is "normal"(?), 4/–4
:[Row 10:] ''Real'' Celsius, 100, 0, In Anders Celsius's original specification, bigger numbers are ''colder''; others later flipped it, 10/0
:[Row 11:] Dalton, 0, 100, A nonlinear scale; 0°C and 100°C are 0 and 100 Dalton, but 50°C is 53.9 Dalton, 53.9/50

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Science]]

Talk:2992: UK Coal

2024-10-01T10:06:38Z

172.70.85.101:

nuclear power is better in all aspects anyway [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.105|172.70.90.105]] 19:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Here before the explanation :) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.9|172.71.154.9]] 20:12, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I made an initial explanation, but it needs a lot of work still; hopefully someone with more experience editing on this wiki can improve it (this is my first explanation) [[User:MathEnthusiast|MathEnthusiast]] ([[User talk:MathEnthusiast|talk]]) 20:27, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

: the sole rabbit-run coal plant was shut down in the 1990s. [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 20:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
Just checking, but this isn't referencing some particularly egregious, badly managed coal power plant in the U.K., is it? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 20:43, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

:I don’t think so; I believe it’s simply that Ratcliffe-on-Soar power plant is the last UK coal plant to be shut down.

Randal uses SI units in the formula, as every person with the tiniest bit of tech/science education would, but then gives the result in inches (3.15) instead of centimeters (8.0). Americans are weird. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.110.162|162.158.110.162]] 20:56, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

:^^ This! {{unsigned|172.70.90.109}}

One should not forget that the 3 inches are very unevenly distributed. Some areas on top of coal mines have sunken in much further creating new flooding risks that require continued future interventions.
--[[Special:Contributions/172.64.236.34|172.64.236.34]] 21:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

:Indeed, I used to line in the north of England and road signs would say, "Road liable to subsidence." I also wonder about the year 1853. Mining was going on long before that. The industrial revolution started in the mid-eighteenth century.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.22|141.101.98.22]] 07:46, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I understand that Watership Down is sometimes categorized as "children's literature", but it always catches me off guard. The Wikipedia page for it calls it an "adventure novel" and it's in the adult fiction section at my library. I'm just wondering if perhaps the explanation here should be a little less specific in its categorization of the book.[[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 21:35, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

From the perspective of someone who lived through the 1980s Miner's Strike (not directly affected, my father worked at a steel-works, not at a pit like my friends' fathers) and then the decline of the steel manufacturing industry (which ''did'' affect my father, obviously), I have rather naturally kept a general eye on the extraction and use of coal. There still are working coal-mines (though there isn't going to be that new one, in Cumbria), and there are still uses for UK coal (enough to import to add to tht which we dig out). It's really a bit early to say that the layer of total coal dug out ''won't'' deepen slightly (very, very slightly) in the future. And coal that is dug is only loosely associated with coal which is turned into electricity, so the last coal-generator stopping seems like an oddly off-topic detail for Randall to leap into the amortised accumulation of extracted volume. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.165|172.68.205.165]] 22:01, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Full conversion to US Customary Units (AKA US Bullshit Units):

(25e9 Tonnes / (1.3 kg/L * 2.4e5 km^2)) * (1000 kg / 1 Tonne) * (1 km^2 / (1000 m)^2 ) * (1 m^3 / 1000 L) * (39.37 in / 1 m ) ~= 3"

--[[User:JayTeeEll|JayTeeEll]] ([[User talk:JayTeeEll|talk]]) 22:57, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

He has not added the amount of "flotation" that results from the removal of all that material from the islands. Have the islands risen more than 3 inches in the crust, due to the removal? [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 23:37, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
:Scotland's still going up (after the last Ice-Age melt) and the south of Britain is still going down, IIRC. Which'll confuse matters. But I don't see how the component contributions to raising level (due to the digging out) could outpace the removal (due to that digging), by any significant amount. Rebound takes a while, and the effects should roughly equal out (so long as we haven't been digging too deep). [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.151|172.68.205.151]] 23:41, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I have a nagging feeling that although rabbit-run coal plants aren't (known to be) a thing, there must be Victorian children's books (e.g. Beatrix Potter) in which bunnies use coal scuttles or coal fires. "When Horace Hedgehog arrived, it was tea-time, so Mr Hoppy put some more coal on the fire..." [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 00:36, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

UK DESNZ refers to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, which is a ministerial department of the UK government. So basically that text is citing the source for the data.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.185|172.70.162.185]] 03:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

To help balance this out, should someone import coal into the formerly coal producing areas to fill in the now empty veins, or would that be selling coal to Newcastle? [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 05:35, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

From the miner's strike onwards, a lot of coal was imported (particularly from (Poland) to run the coal-fired power stations since it was much cheaper, so wasn't dug out the ground in the UK. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.105|172.70.90.105]] 07:51, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

The formula doesn't take into account that the UK has ...changed land area over that period. Land area of the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Ireland) was 315000 km² until 1922.
This changes the reading in SI units from 8 cm to 7 cm, but the rounded value in inches is unchanged, 3 in. Which explains why you call those units of his glorious majesty Imperial, I guess. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.172.180|172.71.172.180]] 08:34, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't like the punctuation spatter in "The UK shut down their last coal power plant today, which means that over the course of the industrial revolution, they dug up and burned an average of 3 inches of their country." And the place I'd put a new comma might confuse others' sensibilities. Perhaps "..., which means that (over the ... revolution) they dug ...". Or just get rid of the one after revolution and accept a rather long run-on clause. Not that it's changable here, being Transcript of what's there but it's strangely off in grammatical meter and span from how I would try to say/write the same words. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.101|172.70.85.101]] 10:06, 1 October 2024 (UTC)