explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

User talk:FaviFake

2025-04-25T14:01:12Z

172.70.85.186: /* Restructuring Header text as a table */

<big><big><big><big>Hey there, feel free to '''[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:FaviFake&action=edit&section=new send me a message]''' :)</big></big><div style="float:right;margin-left:10px;margin-bottom:10px;">__TOC__</div></big></big>

== Objects table ==
Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books). There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''. Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.

What is also missing in the table are many structures or objects found on the planets and, most importantly, dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.

Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.

Technical remarks:
* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.

-- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 19:59, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
:> Thanks for replying. The current table in the main text looks good, but still it is a ''description'' or just ''enumeration'' of game objects, not an ''explanation'' (or in some cases: partly an explanation). Supposing we keep the current structure, it is possible to add explanations for the planet names in the '''Explanation''' column. For example, first sentence of the second paragraph is a good ''explanation'' for the Uzumaki planet's name. On the other hand, Andal has only a ''description'' (what it looks like and what features are present on the surface) and no ''explanation'' (that it refers to Animorphs series of books).
:Hey! Yeah, that's the state of the table ''right now'', and I 100% percent agree with everything you're saying here. All planets and items that need an explanation should be explained and not just described. I mostly just copied and pasted the "planet description/explanations" from the old list to the table: creating the table was way more painful than i thought. I was actually surprized to see that nobody explained what Andal referred to, but I don't know anything about it so more knowledgeable people will have to chip in on that

:>There's also a question where one should put explanations of items and messages. Some do not need an explanation ('You found a stick'), but most do: what they mean and what they refer to, both in xkcd context (such as when there's a comic about the thing) and in general context. I hope you understand the difference between ''description'' and ''explanation''.
:I do! And I wish other people could help here. I'm not sure if you've seen it, but this is the banner i put above the table:
----
'''ALL ITEM EXPLANATIONS NEED TO BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE OLD PLANET LIST TO THE NEW TABLE''' 
We are currently switching from a disorganized list (below, inside the green banner) to the new organized table, but the explanations for specific items are missing from the new table. Please help by copying the item explanations from the old list and adding them to the new table ''in this format:'' 
<code>The item message &ndash; <nowiki>''Where to find it &ndash; Explanation, such as references etc''</nowiki></code> 
Example: You found a cheese platter (Your tanks recharge faster) – ''Next to the cell tower – The cheese is a reference to [https://example.com 1234: Cheese]''
----
'''OTHER ISSUES:'''
* upgrades that end in "???" need to be replaced by the exact upgrade message shown to the user.
* the "Tiles (X, Y)" column for planet coordinates is empty

:As you can see, the explanations should be put right next to the items and messages. Unfortunately no one has started to add them to the table yet

:> Maybe there's also some misunderstanding resulting from a language barrier; English is not my native language.
:Your English is excellent :)

:> dialogues or monologous of the characters, which contain many puns and references, and also hints for the player. There's simply no place for them in the current structure. Making more columns may be messsy. That's why I proposed making several tables covering different aspects.
Almost all the dialogues are on the [[2765: Escape Speed/Transcript]] page, so I guess they should be added there. I don't know if they're already here, I haven't looked at it enough
:: The transcript is not the place for explanations. Puns and references shall be explained elsewhere. I continue working on the transcript but there's still quite a way to go. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

:> Please take my remarks as proposals to improve the structure and not as a criticism or request for you to make everything right and fill every cell of the table. I think we need to create a clear structure for everyone else to fill in with details; but also to provide good examples to follow.
:Yeah; i totally get everything you said. In my last reply I think I was a bit too rude for some reason, maybe it's because I just finished the table and was tired.

:>* In my opinion, the filename column is not needed, it does not appear anywhere while playing, it's in source code only. Better remove it to have more horizontal space for the rest. The names given to the planets by the editors of the explanation page shown in the Description column are fine.
:* Coordinates are also not useful for a regular player, who does not use some Javascript addition/cheats, maybe remove it as well; textual directions in '''Explanation''' column are sufficient.
I was heavily inspired by the table in the [[2712: Gravity]] explanation, which included these. I kind of agree that the filename could be removed, and the filenames could be added to the planet name or explanation, i didn't think about that. About the tiles, someone might use them someday, but if the column keeps remaining empty, i don't mind seeing it disappear

:I really liked your ideas, if you don't mind I'll copy and paste this discussion in the actual comic discussion page and see what others think --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:37, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

::Update: I found a way and added all the coordinates, and moved the planet filenames to the Planet Name column to make more space for the other columns :)

::: Hi, what about dividing planets and objects like in [[User:Malgond/Drafts/Escape_Speed|my experiment]]? There's plenty of horizontal space for explanations and the entries are quite compact vertically. I also think about color-coding the different Types of game objects. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 5 May 2023

::::Hmm, I think it looks a little messy and maybe too complicated. Do any other comics have two different tables? Also, I'm personally not a fan of mixing items, landscapes, and people. I think most people reading the table are there to get an overview of the planets and what they contain. Do we really have to explain everything in such detail? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:09, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::We do not have to follow other explanations too closely, we could use a new form if it seems clearer and better. The current form has no place neither for explaining items nor for dialogues/monologues. More columns could be problematic (specifically in today's world of high and narrow screens of smartphones). Should we explain everything? Well, it us up to collective "us". Personally, I would like someone explain a few puns/dialogues I do not understand.
:::::For now, there's only a handful of people still interested in somehow finishing the explanation for this huge comic. Maybe if we two can agree on some format we could put it in discussion page and ask for votes. (Discussion needs a cleanup, BTW). -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 22:00, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

:::::Hey, I'm back. I see you're enhancing your example table, and iI was wondering, do you plan to move your edits to the actual article after you're done and use the test to see how the formatting looks? Isn't it easier to just add them to the main page directly? Just wondering. If you want I can help you port them over :)
:::::Keeping the contents of the table on your talk page and then porting them over afterwards could lead to a loss of information added after you started editing your user page [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 13:11, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::I'm back too. Yes, I intend to put it in the main article, but I am a bit shy to replace a lot of your work; I've asked for opinions in the talk page. Let's see how it sorts out. Maybe someone has a still better idea. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 21:50, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

::::::Oh. I think the structure of the current table in the article is better than the one you've been working on: for example, it's easier to sort for items, is more compact, and is just one. Why don't you just add a "transcript" column like the table on [[2712: Gravity]] to put what things and people say, and add the rest of the information on the respective columns? Personally, I think you're making it a little bit too complicated. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

== Haltones ==

"They're not **predominantly** gray, the two main colors are just white and black. Sometimes he uses the gray color just like when he uses any other color" ... It didn't say that they were predominantly grey(/'gray'), any more than it said that they'd be predominently black (as [[:Category:Comics with inverted brightness]], often, in preference to white). The point being that even the most "black and white" images aren't monochrome, but have degrees of grey at the boundaries, with smoothly antialiased boundaries between the full black of the line (or filled area) and the full white of the background (or inverted detail). You'll see this if you zoom in, with your favourite image editor. And very often in images with a default RGB colourspace, even if the effective pallette employed covers just greyscale values. But greys actually do feature a lot, too (often the first choice of non-black-and-white, for slight lessening of prominence, as opposed to 'red pen' ''increased'' visibility). So it's technically inaccurate to describe them as pretty much monochrome. But how to convey this in <...counts...> less than 157ish words? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.173|172.71.242.173]] 16:35, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:The wiki page says
::::"xkcd comics are usually plain, predominantly black-and-white line drawings, but sometimes they make use of hues beyond the usual monochrome colors, even if it is just red-penned annotations.
:I think it's enough, since, even if grey is more used than other non-monochrome colors, I don't believe it's so important that it needs to be included as a "third" main color. If Randall uses many bright colors, that he will obviously also use simpler hues of grey when needed. What do you think? [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:51, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:Aside from the antialising edging gradient, I just used the Random Page link and landed on [[1301: File Extensions|something with functional greys]], [[734: Outbreak|an unusual use of 'Post-It' yellow]], an unremarkably "just black pen" comic and then [[1788: Barge|more functional grey]]. I'd argue against "monochrome" as a description, as clearly there is more than just #000000 and #FFFFFF, often enough, in an actual fill-colour/broad-brush context. Even if that's #808080 or another no-hue shade. (I was expecting to land on a "grey pen" comic to assess, after enough clicks but, having seen what I got in the random first handful, I saw no need to go on.)
:And "monochrome" can be/often is coloured. Sepia photographs or "night vision" green displays are perfect examples of monochrome (with or without halftones/dithering/whatever). As is [[267: Choices: Part 4]] (other Choices comics may be considered "duotone", in different ways).
:Maybe "...are often drawn as black shapes on white, or occasionally white shapes on a dark background, but may feature at least one additional highlighting shade or an even fuller colour pallette." Does that sufficiently cover that whole breadth of use? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.154|172.70.86.154]] 19:48, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

== Childish slang. ==

Agree with you on the recent change that you (generic 'you', not ''you'' 'you'!) sound infantile, any which way, upon use of the words mentioned. Which is how it was still said before the revert in that version of edit. But with <code>"pretty gay" and "retarded" are infantile and offensive slang for "foolish" or "contemptible"</code>, you miss the point. Foolishness is just one distant contender for what "pretty gay" is often intended to mean (even if not actually being used for someone/something 'effeminate'). And "retarded" is more in the whole "thick, stupid, dumb" line of insult than "contemptible" (which is more "horrible, dislikable, repulsive"..?).
 Personally, I also thought it better with not actually defining insults (correctly or otherwise), as it adds power to them. I can call someone a "numpty" in jest, for example, and colloquially that might be understood as the low-level insult (if that) which it is intended to be. But if I start to bandy around its {{wiktionary|numpty#Scots|dictionary definition}} then it becomes more of a seriously accusatory description.
 Just my opinion. Not really understanding the latest revert when it had seemed to be improved (if anything) in the version you reverted away. Just putting it there. I know you're doing a lot of editing (good stuff!) just wondering if you considered this one carefully enough in your obvious zeal. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.182.89|172.71.182.89]] 16:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
:Addendum. Meant to say, if you decide to undo/reform your own revert (I won't do it, but on the offchance you see my point), I'd have not said "''commonly'' used". They're used in slang, but I don't think we can say how frequently they pop up. They're "used in slang" (and also not in slang, or at least not insulting slang, where "gay" has a long history of just meaning "happy", whilst "retarded" is often to do with decceleration/minimised acceleration of physical systems) but I'm not sure they're no more than minority words in the whole world of such language. They depict a subset of insult-givers (like the character in the comic, for whom it adds a certain additional characterisation) amongst all the many and varied insult-givers, and Randall surely chose such semi-bowlderised terms to not have to write any of all the far worse words he might also have done. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.31|172.71.94.31]] 16:46, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

== IP page to delete ==

I didn't see your thinking about why the Deletion category was not needed there. And, believe me as an IP myself, I've never known anything useful being said on an IP's User or User Talk page. With that example not breaking the pattern any. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.131|172.70.85.131]] 00:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
:I just don't think there's a reason to delete it, it's useful to have a previous talk page if the IP continues to edit and people want to communicate with them [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
::"The IP" is whichever one of 'us' happens to land on that particular Cloudflare route.
::I'm not going to go back and find out which IP it represents, to check if it's in their current stock of connected gateways, but it might not be. Or it was even (depending on date) a pre-Cloudflare 'straight' access unproxied and thus no longer seen, even if the exact same editor on the exact same IP lucked on ''their'' initial gateway.
::Certainly it won't map to a meaningful 'user', chances may even be that it doesn't map to ''any'' user. IP-version User/User Talk pages are anachronisms pretty much as soon as they're created. Or before, if based upon trying to contact an author of an older edit. I was on 172.70.85.131, above, but who knows (before I submit it) what this reply's sign-off will say.
::And a one-shot editor may never ever see the results of any conversation that was tried to be started. Whereas I ''might'' see any response, anywhere, that contextually makes it plain that they're talking about an edit I once made.
::Honestly, I think it'd be worthwhile checking ''every'' IP-focussed namespace page and archiving anything truly interesting that found itself in there in some other central location then condemning them all to deletion. Maybe, if possible, prevent their creation too. But I don't have the ability to do anything (except sift through them for any of the very rare gems of quality, but I wouldn't be able to do anything about it from there on in, so...
::...not gonna do anything more about it (I can't, other than reinstate the To Be Deleted membership, whch I won't bother with), but I hope you understand my perspective on this. I've seen you become a very useful member of the community, who I generally respect for your input and tweaks to the site, and don't expect you to take instruction from li'l ol' me (not even working with an established identity). Just consider this as food for thought, and leave it at that if you wish. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.19|162.158.34.19]] 20:12, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== RTL/LTR: "...but I think it refers to me" ==

Yeah, it does. The point being that we might not do anything about the smartarses who vandalise knowingly (and I don't see a problem with what you otherwise did), but when someone thinks ''they'' have unique and funny joke (along the lines of putting "Citation needed"s ''everywhere'') they might spot the comment and then realise how we've seen it all done before so refrain from the prank. I can't even recall how many times we have had to revert things, but best to put off the casual comedian, and it won't change the outcome either way for the dedicated vandal with their blood up and looking to cause trouble. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.107|141.101.98.107]] 20:00, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:I guess you're right, I just thought it was very clear for everyone that rendering an entire article unreadable was an act of pure vandalism, but I guess an editor comment doesn't hurt. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

== The reason "the image size wasn't there"? ==

...because it didn't need an image-size restriction, originally? Compare the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:Miss_lenhart.png previous and current version sizes]. Nice to have a (''huge!'') high-res headshot, no doubt, but clearly that's why you found that it now needs artificially constraining... No actual mystery. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.63|172.70.85.63]] 17:16, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

:Yeah you're right, I just assumed every comic had the image size to be future-proof. The weird thing was that the "imagesize: " part was already there, but there was no value. Anyway, nothing important.

== I disagree with Oxford commas. ==

"For breakfast I had some bread, toast, and jam." - A legitimate(ish) case of ", and ". Or "I created the world, and saw that it was good." I otherwise prefer to suscribe to replacing all non-final conjunctions in sequence with commas but ''not'' adding one before the ultimate (remaining) conjunction. That's like having "Fish, and chips", where it isn't an actual afterthought. And best to rephrase or repunctuate (e.g. with super-listing semicolons to separate) if you have confusing comma-breakout clauses that ''so'' easily clash (or lead you down funny garden paths) with Oxford Commas. My opinion, but this is why syntax is clearer when leaving out OCs. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.93|172.70.85.93]] 13:59, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:I just think it's better to use it everywhere to avoid any possible confusion. If we used it half the time, it would be inconsistent. But it's no big deal.
::Similarly, no big deal. Except that it ''looked'' like an error. You've done a lot of useful changes, recently... A ''lot''... Which is not a bad thing, I must add. Occasionally I've seen what (I thought!) you intended to say, and I've helped out with a misplaced word or two. And I honestly do not feel like OCs read correctly in many circumstances. How would you even OC something like "...you should paint it red, yellow or, maybe, orange"?
::The comma already does a lot of heavy lifting, four or five different uses can occur in the same sentence, with it commonly doing duty as a sub-clause parenthetical (except without the clear open/close distinction of an actual parenthetical) ''as well as'' conjunction-replacement within a list. You will find many instances of non-OCed lists on the site. In fact I find the "Please note that all contributions to explain xkcd..." bit, below this edit box, to be the exception and not the rule.
::Anyhoo... I 'corrected' an example, but did not re'correct' it once you made it obvious what rule you were working to. I think you're less right than me, naturally, even if I wouldn't say that you're more wrong. ;) But I thought I'd make you a brief note of my thoughts rather than edit-warring the issue. Less brief, now, but I hope you still take it in good humour. (Oh, yeah, I'm sort of Ok with Oxford Spelling, insofar as it's mostly what I use naturally. Except for the "-ize" bit. That and their Comma are totally against how I was taught at school, a number of decades ago. :P ) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.71|172.71.242.71]] 15:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:::You really seem to care about this a lot more than I do, if you want feel free to revert my edit back. I'm not even sure why we're here talking about commas lol
:::I'm no expert and I just like commas. Thanks for checking my edits, I think I've seen a few of your corrections. I have a lot of free time at the moment and I seem to like fixing up unorganized things here --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:42, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

== Science Girl/Hairbun ==

You may have noted that several of the Talk pages attached to those you changed already had discussions about whether someone was Hairbun or (a possibly grown-up version of) Science Girl, and you had people like Kynde support the change ''to'' treating her as Science Girl. No skin off my nose, but I'm not sure your arguments are strong enough to support your broad sweep changes in that regard. I think I'd side with "bun with trailing hair" being SG (regardless of apparent age/maturity, as the description only really says ''usually'' a child, whether you take that as prescriptivist or descriptivist) but not enough that I'd reverse your considerable efforts in this matter. But on the off-chance that you hadn't noticed the prior discussions and conclusions, before making your own assessment. FYI, only. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.204|172.71.178.204]] 14:01, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:I will properly reply to you tomorrow since it's midnight here. Btw thanks for letting me know these hyperlinks were rendered correctly, and for fixing my 1 typo <s>(after i corrected 100)</s>
::Guys, some things may be being taken too seriously. Assuming [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1608:_Hoverboard&diff=prev&oldid=317396 this was the 'one error'], yeah, the Pedant's Curse hits us all, that's the point. Easy to see how it was done (read as "a Category:Interactive..." rather than "an interactive", or whatever). Happens to the best of us, when concentrating on loads of other things. Not sure about the Jill thing, at all, myself, but that discussion is probably for soewhere else. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.158|172.69.79.158]] 22:22, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

:::Nonononono I wasn't serious when I thanked you about the typo, I was also just kidding. I was joking about how after I corrected a ton of typos I added one more.
:::On the main topic you brought up: I think Jill's main characteristics (I'll talk about why I renamed her) are that she is a child, she is usually interested in science, and has always one or two buns with trailing hair. [[Hairbun]] isn't as defined as Jill: she just has a bun. This is what the page [[Hairbun]] (written entirely by Kynde, I haven't reformatted to remove the bullet points yet), say about the bun:
----
:::*Her appearance, apart from her glasses, can also change.
:::**In 703: Honor Societies, 708: Sex Dice, 1511: Spice Girl, 1601: Isolation and in every instance in 1608: Hoverboard her hair looks somewhat different, curly and with some kind of ponytail, but since '''her main distinguishing characteristic is the hair bun''', these comics are included.
:::[...]
:::*There are some characters with hair buns that are not Hairbun:
:::**Since she is a grown woman, she should not be confused with Jill or any other small girls with hair bun like in 1584: Moments of Inspiration.
----
:::And on the Page for Jill, before I ever touched it, it said:
:::*As she is usually also clearly a child she usually cannot be confused with Hairbun
----
:::Kynde mentioned [[1511: Spice Girl]] and [[1601: Isolation]] as featuring Hairbun and not Jill, but they look exactly like a grown-up Jill. Plus, on the gallery section on [[Hairbun]] (I'm working on adding back a better one since the old one was kinda broken UPDATE 11:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC): Added the gallery back with vector images), this was the first picture of Hairbun:
:::[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

:::So, to recap: Hairbun has always had a version with a bun with trailing hair, but it was inconsistent between comics, so I settled on Jill is a girl that always has trailing hair and Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.

:::On the topic of renaming Jill:
:::*I searched the wiki for Jill and found 3 discussions. One of them ended up "why world we even create a page for that girl, there aren't many comics featuring her.", but didn't criticize the name too much iirc
:::*We did the same thing for [[Danish]]. The only time she was given ''any'' name ("Danish in the sense of "darling" iirc), that was the name used.
:::*If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.
:::*I'm not sure about this, but I think she's slowing being added more and more outside science comics.

:::Wow this was long --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

== In reply to [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2794:_Alphabet_Notes&curid=26437&diff=321127&oldid=320916 this query]... ==

There's {{w|Welsh orthography|the Welsh}}, at the very least! (Well, you did ask! Even if it's truly not so relevent. ;) ) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.159|172.70.86.159]] 11:29, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
:Lol. TIL! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

== Plural animals ==

Following on from Ferret->Ferrets, what about the last remaining singular that is Category:Apatosaurus? (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin, as worthy as they often are, but this seems like the next logical step that I thought you might have done to finish that particular neatening job.) But I'll leave it up to you as to whether it's Apatosauruses, Apatosaurii or whatever else you might consider most appropriate... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.98|172.70.85.98]] 10:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
:I actually thought about it, and I came to the conclusion that I don't know what the plural of that word is. Feel free to research if there's a "right" word and rename that category :)
:> (I must admit, all your edits/re-edits are making my head spin,
:Yeah I don't really organize everything I want to change beforehand, so whenever i notice a little thing is missing, I add it to every page that needs it. I guess it's easier to review my edits in bulk from a page's version history lol --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:53, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

== Username ==
I spotted a spam-like user named "Papyrus". [[User:ChristmasGospel|ChristmasGospel]] ([[User talk:ChristmasGospel|talk]]) 21:55, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
:Interesting, i edited that comic's page yesterday. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
== Community portal spam ==
The spammers seem to be deleting text from Community Portal. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 07:28, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks, but I couldn't find any recent example concerning me. Do you mind giving an example? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:49, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Possible Adminship? ==

Hi FaviFake, I’m Victoria. I’m planning on reaching out to Jeff via Twitter/X because there’s a long list of things that only he can do. You can see the list at my [[User:42.book.addict#To_Do_List_for_Jeff|user page]]. One of these tasks is promoting more admins. Seeing as you are quite active, and have done quite a lot of edits (top 10 in CS score-wow!), would you like to be mentioned in my message as a possible admin candidate? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 17:21, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
: Oh hey, thanks for messaging me! I started caring a lot for this site about a year ago, went on a complete pause for a few months, and came back this week. You seem very active, love to see some new active users! I saw your message on the community portal saying you were trying to find a way to contact Jeff. That's actually something I've thought about doing for a long time but never actually tried since not even Davidy22 was able to contact him at one point iirc.
:Anyway, yes, I'd love to be an admin for this site since there are so many things I can't do as a user (i have my own to-do list, which includes 1) actually deleting pages in Pages to delete and 2) improving/fixing the comic templates and Main page).
: So yeah, I wish you good luck contacting him! My only advice is to use any possible way to (or to get someone else to) contact him without worrying too much about annoying him. His last contribution was more than a year ago, he can totally jump back in for a moment after being unreachable for so long. I really like your message, it's very well-written, now the hard part is getting it to him. Asking Davidy22 for his email address (or finding it online) sounds like a great idea to me. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 22:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

== Trivia below transcript ==
The FAQ page says that trivia is below transcript. I'm very sorry about this. [[User:ConscriptGlossary|ConscriptGlossary]] ([[User talk:ConscriptGlossary|talk]]) 00:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
:Nono don't be sorry, you're totally right! I came back here after months of being offline and forgot about the order! I realised my mistake yesterday but didn't have the time to go look for the article to revert my edit. Please revert it if you get the chance to do it before me. [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
::There, I should've fixed it now. I see you also reverted my edit, thanks! [[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 04:59, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

== On the Ghosts in the NavPane ==

When I saw 42's inclusion of Ghosts in the Character NavPane, I was pondering asking for Demons and Aliens (the blob-monster types, or near variations, from both UFO-ish comics and far-future) to be added alongside.

But I agree with you that they're not ''really'' minor characters. Yet I think they (all of them) deserve a slot there, as they are as much a feature as the (Animals/)Squirrels section. Originally thought to suggest "Groups" (could include "Multiple Cueballs" and even "Children" for groups with otherwise un-IDed child characters), which you could still ''also'' add (but for human-character groups only), but now thinking "Other Beings" could hold Ghosts, Demons and Aliens (maybe "Future Beings" separate from the latter, or at least the differently-futuristic "Floating Orbs" as ''another'' other classification category in there). As a section between Real People and Animals, I thought, unless it's decided best to put them after Animals.

Food for thought, anyway. You (and 42, and maybe others) may have your own ideas on this, and I wouldn't (and can't) spring my own ideas upon you by suddenly just editing the appropriate source. It probably needs discussion. I nearly put my earlier thoughts in the Community Portal area, but as you're personally active on this at the moment I thought it might be easier for you to ponder if I finally commited it to writing just here. (Feel free to move this contrib/advertise it wider, if you see fit.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 14:19, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
:Just popping in to add my 2 cents-I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of having “other beings” in the navbox. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 16:02, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
::Hey there, thanks a lot for messaging me about this. I disagree with you for one specific reason: the navbox was initially supposed to catalogue the recurring characters in the comics which displayed more or less the same behaviours across comics, such as [[Black Hat]] and [[Beret Guy]]. It then expanded to include real people, such as politicians, which still remained the same characters across different comics. The animal section is different in that some of them are the same animals across comics (such as bobcats and red spiders, for example), but since we had to include them, we included EVERY animal, even when they were completely different every time, because it'd look weird if the only animals there were the specific ones i mentioned.
::If we included a section such as Other beings that includes ghosts, I believe it would be filled with characters that are not the same in every comic they appear in and the navbox would completely lose its intended purpose. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:13, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

== (Whoops, forgot a header!) ...FYC ==

If you agree with {{diff|356369|these additions/changes}}, with or without other adjustments, I was wondering if you'd like to do the respective changes to the Incomplete Article category page, as I find it's semi-protected and I'm thus locked out from the edits that I thought I might duplicate there too (in my IP state – yes, I know I could change this, but I'm happier just to leave it up to you/whoever). Anyway, for your consideration. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.75|162.158.202.75]] 17:09, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
: Done! Thanks. I removed a few technical details. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 07:24, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

==The [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project==
''The messages regarding the [[What If? chapters|''What If?'' article index]] project have been moved to '''[[Talk:What If? chapters]]'''. To add a new topic regarding the index, [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:What_If?_chapters&action=edit&section=new click here].'' --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:15, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removed "Discussion" super-header. ==

I had wondered, as (at that time) you hadn't bothered to remove any of the ''other'' equivalent super-headers. It looked a bit like an accidental select-and-cut, like sometimes editors do, given your actual edit was waaay down the other end of the page. (It was a bit too neat, not like the usual case of somehow snipping off just one of the "="s, make a =="header"== into a ="header="=, effectively, but I've also seen similarly unmessy accidents happen, so your decent tightening up of the whitespace could have just as easily been a part of the same misclicking.)

I did check the companion pages, and they were all happyily as they (once) were. Note that the extra level of header ''does'' have use for (e.g.) putting a similar level of header at the bottom to give Archive, FAQ, etc, sections (not part of the now-top-levelisted points), or even such that we can have "for <foo>, see <otherPortal#section>" to gather things up with less repeats. Not to have their own subheaders (unless they, too, get so large that we have to further split them!), but to be seperate-but-appended like a Transcript (and maybe Trivia) section, regardless of how subheadered an in-depth Explanation gets. If we ever get that (and, really, we could do with a ''lot'' of archival for most of the Community Pages, and maybe some FAQing, for which I ''might'' suggest a subheadering to easily scan for... e.g. ... the situation with the MathML that seems to get revisited more often than not), then we probably need the superheaders back, unless we put messy indented-bullet-trees (at the top? with or without "expand"-hiding?) ''only'' for non-discussion items.

Not that I totally agree that "1.<many...>" (and the occasional "1.<something>.<subsubitem>" was unreadable, either, but ''so long'' as we don't have a further main(ish) header, of equal import, then ''maybe'' it's ok to do it your way. Just it seemed like a big decision to make, to cut out all the (admitedly untaken) options out of the equation. ...And that is a summary of the mental arithmatic whizzing through my head when I had decided (on balance) that you'd probably just made an unknowing misedit that needed bringing back in line with the others. Just to explain the snap decision to undo your 'accident'. Not sure whether you'd been purposefully thinking about it for far longer, of course. Maybe even a couple of minutes! ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.58|172.71.178.58]] 14:53, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

:I totally agree with everything you said! One day I noticed there was a useless superheader at the top which was making the TOC unnecessarily slightly harder to scan through. We should definitely bring it back if someone decides to organise the portals, but I figured since it was untouched for more than a decade, it's likely it won't happen in the near future. There was no need to explain the reasoning behind your revert, but I appreciate you reaching out! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:06, 8 February 2025 (UTC)

==A simple Thank-you==
Thank you so much for expanding my knowledge of xkcd, the wiki, and wikis overall. That user page creation left a bit of a mark on me lol. I have found out that I have reached a high enough level to create user pages. I have created 2 user pages and 2 discussion pages for other worthy members of the community. Thank you for the very helpful advice, and thanks again for providing helpful information from the community. Sincerely, [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 05:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! I'm glad we have another active contributor <3   --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:09, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
::It's relevant to note that we only create User pages when people explicitly ask for them. On the other hand, '''User talk''' pages are created if you want to talk to that specific member privately. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

== Removing references to order of LiveJournal comics ==

[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1%3A_Barrel_-_Part_1&type=revision&diff=320394&oldid=320342 But WHY?] 
I'm very unhappy to realize you have deleted my hard work giving people a possibility to click through the first comics in the order they where released on livejournal. I have not checked them all, but I'm not happy that it has been deleted and would like to get it back. Pleas try to explain why you found it a good idea to remove this info from so many comics! I'm quite upset about it at the moment. And since you removed it would like you to restore it if you cannot make me see why! Seems there is also more info I put in that have been deleted? :-( --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:31, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:You are mistaken! I actually liked the idea of browsing the first comics in the original order ''so much'' that I moved it above the explanation! This means it's now much easier to browse them in the correct order, because the user is no longer required to scroll to the bottom of the page: the links are right below the comic.

:I did this for all the 50ish comics. I think you might also have missed the "Original title" and "Original caption" parts of these first comics. In every one of these comics, right under the title (above the image) there's an "Original title". Likewise, below every Title text there's now an "Original caption" part, which contains the LiveJournal caption. See for example comics [[4: Landscape (sketch)]] or [[8: Red spiders]]. I also added a link to the specific LiveJournal post both on the title and caption parts, so users can see them for themselves. Your hard work no longer sits in the hidden Trivia section, but is actually above everything else and easier to read and use!

:I do think it's still not perfect, especially part to browse the comics. I'd like to create a custom template with real buttons (not just links) and an actual explanation of the situation, or maybe integrate it directly into the {{tl|comic}} template. But still, a much better solution than putting everything in the last section! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

::I'm sorry for the harsh words. Late that night I realized all my trivia info was deleted (did see the original title text was added), but did not realize that the info was relegated to a more prominent place. So I take back my comment, and instead now thank you for improving my work. Hope you accept this apology from a message written at a bad time. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:58, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Of course! You were very polite. I'm glad you're still active in this wiki :) --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:16, 12 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Me to, so there at least is one active admin. Sadly I'm not very good at the tech stuff a<nd also do not have time to look into all kinds of wiki policies... Glad there are others like you who lift the mantle on those parts. We really need a guy like Davidy... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::UPDATE: I moved the sentences above the ==Explanation==, so it should now be clearer. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:01, 1 April 2025 (UTC)

== Jill's renaming ==

Hi FaviFake 
Just came around to think about the renaming og Science Girl, that I created, to Jill. I really do not like it, and we do not generally give generic figures a name, Megan and Danish the exceptions. And because she is in a comic based on a children song, the name is clearly from the song not because the generic Science Girl is called Jill. Jill is not even used in the comic, only in the title text. You wrote there where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you. But they are not on the talk page of Science Girls page. I'm seriously considering changing it back, so let me know where these discussions are located. I also think it was a mistake to call Danish, Danish, but it beats calling her Black Hats girlfriend. It was just a nickname he used, and they killed the witness as no one must know... But that was done way before I began editing this page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:21, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

:Hey, thanks for your message! I'll respond tomorrow because I don't have time, but for now I just wanted to note somewhere (before I forget) that I looked though all 41 appearances and counted the times where science is the main theme of the comic. The result was that the majority of Jill appearences are not related to science. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:07, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

::Well I will have to check that but the first instance was included because it was a girl who where interested in science even though she doesn't look like ScienceGirl. And an adult version of her was included because it was science again. The question is of course if there are now a different girl... But I do not like the naming of her. We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob, and there was also someone who did not like Megan. But that I like now. I prefer keeping Danish, but do not like the reason why she got than name. And other generic characters have been given a name in some comics without we used this. And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:26, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|::}}
Hey.
And an adult version of her was included because it was science again.
I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to, but this would actually help my case! "Girl" implies she's either a teenager or a child. This means that, if you wanted to broaden her definition to also include "adult versions", you'd have to use another name. Science Woman? Science Female Charachter? I think Jill is better: it sounds like a name a child would have, but doesn't prevent us from giving the name Jill to adult versions. If we change our minds and Jill also becomes a woman, we don't have to remove the "girl" part.

We do not generally give '''generic figures''' a name
But I don't think she's a generic figure. In a bit more than a third of the comic appearences, she's specifically interested in science. This, to me, means she's likely the same person on most of the comics. SHe also has a similar behaviour.

Even if that weren't the case, we would still have to find a name for her that's generic enough, that represents her qualities, AND that's not a proper name. Or, we could just call her what Randall called her, "[[Jill]]". There is precendent on this wiki for giving a name to a character based solely on one instance, where the name wasn't even intended: that's [[Danish]]. Even more: Danish was used by Randall as an adjective, but here Randall gave us a proper name!

There where no less than three discussions regarding this name change, agreeing with you.
I didn't say they agreed with me. There was no consensus on all of them, iirc, mainly because few people partecipated. Yes, I remember they weren't on her talk page, which is weird, but they were somewhere else. I remember they were mostly even.

The first instance was included [...] even though she doesn't look like Science Girl
That specific comic is an exception, in all other comics she has a bun with trailing hair. Randall may have drawn a ponytail because of the limited space. Anyways, as I said, the majority of the comics featuring her aren't mainly about science. (Of course, almost all Randall comics relate to science, but I counted comics where it was intented.)

We did refrain from naming Cueball Rob
That's because there was consensus on the fact that Cueball is an everyman, while Rob is the same charachter.

And really feel it is wrong to name her after a children song just because she was in a comic about that song!
Well that's the only mention of her name we have, even if it's unrelated. I like that she was named after a nursery rhyme, it fits her character, since she's a child.

[...] I really do not like it, [...]

[...] I do not like the naming of her. [...]

[...] There was also someone who did not like Megan. But I like [Megan] now. [...]

[...] I really '''feel''' it is wrong to name her after a children song [...]
I'm starting to see a trend here. Do you think it could be possible you're against the name change because you simply... don’t like how it sounds? I didn't like how "Science Girl" sounded, but that's not why I changed her name...

--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:34, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply. Sadly you could not show me any discussion about the name change. Only that you said there where. So that did not help. Yes maybe I used the same wording many time. Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning... What I do not like about Jill and using that comic to name her, is that I do not think that comic at all is representative of the character I had identified and named Science Girl. But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem. I only new her as adult in [[1520: Degree-Off]] and I can see this has been changes, although I believe this should be reverted as this is not hairbun bu Science Girl. I did not know it had been removed. In this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1520:_Degree-Off&oldid=123879 version] she was named Science Girl] but it was removed without my knowing. And that she was an adult version was in this [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 version]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
::Looking at comics now, and just found this one, without looking for Jill and saw her here: [[2747: Presents for Biologists]]. To me the important thing is the interest in science and that the hairbun is not tight but with strings of hair hanging loose. So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman, often a child with a loose hairbun, not to be3 confused with the generic every woman Hairbun... Then Degree-Off is also clearly Jill. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:56, 31 March 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::}}
Also not native English speaker so may have less options to express my meaning
I'm also not a native speaker, I'm Italian! :D I wasn't pointing out your choice of words but rather what you were trying to say, which is (I think?) that you don't like the name. Anyways:

To me the important thing is the interest in science [...] So maybe the explanation to Jill should be changed to a young woman [...]
It seems your opinion has changed completely then! This is what [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123921 you wrote] about [[Hairbun]] before I joined this wiki:
''Since she [Hairbun] is a '''grown woman''', she should not be confused with Science Girl or any other '''small girls''' with hair bun like in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]].''
According to this logic in this comic:
* [[1520: Degree-Off]] - taller than other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''
* [[2747: Presents for Biologists]] - as tall as other woman and man, so a woman → '''not Jill'''

Also, this would mean we'd have to rename Jill to someone else in a third or a fourth of her appearences.

But I do agree that if there are several instances where she is represented as an adult it could be a problem
I agree! If there's one thing that I think everyone can agreen on is that we shoudn't call a grown woman a "girl". And "Science Woman" sounds like a superhero.

So, to avoid naming Hairbun '''based on how she looks''' and Jill '''based on her displayed interest''' (I'll remind you, you said in Hairbun's page that this is Hairbun:)
[[File:Hair Bun Girl with curly hair and ponytail.png]]

...all i did was standardise the matter:
*'''Jill is a child OR girl that always has trailing hair''' (except 1 comic), and
*'''Hairbun is an adult that sometimes has trailing hair.'''

I think any other definition would be incredibly confusing. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:03, 1 April 2025 (UTC)
:Well I originally put in degree off as Science Girl as she both looked and behaved like Science Girl. So I may have changed my mind. Cannot find the picture you said that I said was Hairbun? Maybe it was from before I introduced Science Girl. I have created both of these characters and then others have changed the explanation and the name. I also called her [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hairbun&oldid=88388 Hair Bun Girl], which I can now see it wrong since she was a woman, but again, not native English. Here is my first creation of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Jill&oldid=123862 Science Girl]. There where more than a year between, so maybe I changed my mind regarding which could be hairbun in between? I'm certainly more interested in having those characters with hairbun and dangling hair to be another than normal hairbun now. And would today have collected those that looks like that together. Also there are many instances of Jill where she do not have a speaking part, thus saying she is always interested in science doesn't fit with how she is listed now... It is difficult. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:57, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

::Oh yeah that makes sense, I didn't consider the fact that Science Jirl was created possibly years after Hairbun. I'm not sure I understood your last sentence, about Jill not speaking? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:26, 2 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I think only a year after. But still. I meant that there are several instances with Jill where she do not have a speaking part in the comic, and thus cannot be said to have a special interest in science or her sharp wit. So if science should be her main indicator then she has to say something. But I do not really know how to make this as best as it could be. (Science Jirl, Jirl a combination of Jill and Girl ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:46, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

::::It'd be so funny if we settled on Science Jirl haha. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:10, 4 April 2025 (UTC)

== As I can't edit it... ==

Regarding the Editor FAQ:
For headlines, you have to use wiki-style code. The simplest way is a preceding semicolon at the beginning of the line which causes the entire line to be rendered in bold.
...I might be tempted to say something like "This makes use of {{w|Help:Wikitext#Description_lists|Description List}} markup", given how there are circumstances when a ";something:fuller description of something" is also actually useful. And then go on to say something about how this is functionally simpler than the actual (sub-)header use of =s, ==s, ===s, etc, (which you'd be advised to check what 'level' of (sub-)header you're already working in and go for the next level on from that) and would the usually be recorded in a Table Of Contents of either the page concerned or any page which it is transcluded within.

Except that we're going into really ''technical'' territory with the latter bit. Generally, ==s are for Explanation, Transcript, Trivia headers in comics, you could say. (The reason being is that the Main Page has a single-= header under which the Latest Comic is transcluded and so ==s are best to be inherited as transient sub-headers - but you don't need to say that... it's just an obvious reasong behind the stylistic decision.) Headering a section other than these, in a comic (such as a place for a Table Of Things, or similar) would generally be ===ed (or, rarely, ====ed, as a sub-sub-header of the Explanation/whatever). It is best to avoid any ===+ing at all in the Comic Talk page because, if the Comic page itself gets a TOC (some do, most don't, but all ''potentially'' could) then the transcluded Discussion gets (probably!) inadvertently and improperly added in. (You can force a NOTOC, and some other tricks, but I've never been able to find a NOTOCIFTRANSCLUDED-like thing, not without peppering noinclude sections around section headers, which is... getting ''far'' too complicated.) So, just saying "Don't use '==...'s in Talk Pages, stick to ';'s..." (even without the reasoning) might be an advisable statement.

Yeah, I'm giving you a lot of stuff here (I think you know all of it, actually), hopefully you can tease out some of the bits actually useful to suggest in the FAQ. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:52, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

Darnit, also meant to add that in the {{template|Citation needed}} explanation you wrote, could you change {{template|actual citation needed}} to {{template|Actual citation needed}}? The latter is the actual template, the former is just a redirect. No harm in ''using'' the redirect-needing ones (generally), but you might as well advertise the correct ones. Like you don't advertise {{template|cn}} or {{template|fact}} (both ->{{template|Citation needed}}, as are {{template|citation needed}}, {{template|Citation Needed}} and other case-accomadating variations), though people still are able to use them. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.164|172.68.205.164]] 21:58, 11 April 2025 (UTC)

:Sorry but you're gonna have to give me exactly what you want me to paste in the article, I haven't understood a word of what you said. I changed the actual cit needed thinghy--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:45, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

==User page creation==
I just wanted to say thanks again for making my user page! --[[User:Xnerkcd|xnerkcd]] ([[User talk:Xnerkcd|talk]]) 17:38, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
:No worries! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:22, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

==Admin==
What does an admin do? Are they just the people that can create pages?
:Not an admin, but they basically manage the wiki state-of-affairs and oversee day-to-day operation. Basically, a stepup from typical moderators. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.208.206|172.69.208.206]]
::I guess that's what they're ''supposed'' to do. Because of the status quo, they just sometimes pop back in and do stuff we can't. We can however create pages ourselves. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:46, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

== A Barnstar For You :3 ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:top;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2|}}}|alt|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 3.PNG|100px|border]]|[[File:Blueprint Barnstar 2.PNG|100px|border]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: bottom; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Template Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: top; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Thanks for all of your work on improving the templates on here! '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 20:01, 18 April 2025 (UTC)
|}
:Thanks so much! But [[User:Firestar233]] definitely deserves that award more than I do! He created the templates for the what if? index that are still incredibly useful! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:31, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

==Restructuring [[Header text]] as a table==

"yeah, best not suggest that..." - 162.158.216.41

"Nobody is ever going to do that by hand." - FaviFake

Let's just say.... [[Countdown in header text]] was just a warm-up.

bet. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:Oh jeez no way. No way man. That'd be incredible. And insane. hahaha
:But seriously, if you really want to do this, feel free to shoot me a message! [[Header text]] is a huge beast, and I think we could even redesign it completely like what if. Imagine a huge table, sortable by date, comic number, alphabetical order of header text, with a ton of templates to manage...
:Ok the last one isn't tempting. But seriously we could turn it into the most beautiful list of header texts the world has ever seen! I'm already excited! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::I already got the first header text done! The table idea sounds super fun though. I'm on board. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Shoot you were so fast i didn't even see it! Ok we need to seriously think about it now. A few questions come to mind:
:::#How many columns (date, ? What are all the possible things we can display in a useful way that are common to every header text?
:::##How do we handle the section titles? We should definitely use a template to keep the <nowiki>[[#Anchor links]]</nowiki>, but should we keep the ad-hoc section titles?
:::#How many tables? Two tables for comic specific and general changes, or just 1 mega table?
:::#We definitely need a template to mimic the all caps font that Randall uses. Ideas for what else it could do (like contain parts of the table code, color the cell background...)?
:::#Would it be useful if some columns were color-coded? Like on what if? ("back to standard text", "what if promotion", "xkcd store updates", ...)?
:::I have so many questions! If anyone who's reading or watchlisted this talk page wants to chime in and suggest anything at all please do! I'll go sleep now, I guess we'll organise tomorrow? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Sounds good. Date as a column probably won't work because of stuff like permanence. 'Timeframe'(e.g. temporary/permanent) could work though. I guess it could look something like this for comic-specific:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Comic !! Timeframe !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}
::::And this could be used for the global headers:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Date !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}

::::I think we should do two tables, with a small blurb before each one explaining what 'comic-specific' means. For the global header text, 'timeframe' could be replaced with 'date'. Color-sorting does sound good (that would be what the column 'purpose' does).
::::'comic' would just be like '2916: Machine'. 'Header text' is just what the text says. 'Explanation' is self-explanatory. 'Purpose' documents the reason.
::::For the color codes, we could do 'book promotion', 'Store updates', 'Credits' (e.g. The supporter credits on the April Fools' Comics), maybe fundraisers, he's done those.
::::I made a test table, with most of the wikitext taken from the what if chapters table and the help:table article on Wikipedia [[Testing area | here]]
::::Have a good night! [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Oh and also I got another one done heehee [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 22:27, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Nummer tree dun. I made a little test table so we can experiment with it without putting it on the actual page ([[Testing area | over here!]][[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Hey this is great! I'll reply tomorrow cuz I don't have time now but it seems to me you might be deleting some stuff that's actually worth keeping. For example, in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=next&oldid=374464 this] and [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=prev&oldid=374464 this edit] I thought most of the info you removed could be useful. But as i said i don't have much time, I'll read and reply tomorrow. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:19, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yeah these columns sound good! We could also add "Comic" to the global one, to mark which comic was up when it changed. We should definitely use a template for Comic, so we can link to the explanation, create an automatic #Anchor link tag, and also link to xkcd.com to view the header. It could be the same template, and the first parameter switches between the "global header text" (1) and the "comic-specific header text" (2) modes.
::::::I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former. Does this sound good Dollar?
::::::I removed the rewritten ones and moved them to the testing page to avoid losing info. If we want to do what we did for what if?, we have to use another page until it's ready. I told Kynde about this page to let her know, since she's the main contributor on [[Header text]]. Here's what I imagine it could look like:

::::::This would be for '''comic-specific''':
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Timeframe
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
| [[472: House of Pancakes]] {{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}} || Permanent || (Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.) || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || || {{Yes}} ||
|}

::::::And this could be used for the '''global headers''':
This is for comic-specific:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Appeared on...
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text | Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" | Explanation
! colspan="4"| Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number | Fundraiser
|-
|| 01-01-2009 || {{xkcd|472|''View archived page of the header text''}} (This global header appeared while [[123: Example comic]] was up.) || Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available! || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || {{Yes}} || ||
|}

::::::The first 3 collumns (except Timeframe and Appeared on) would use a custom-made template which would only need (1) the number: Name of the comic and (2) the header text to make it look all caps. Thoughts?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::This looks great! Good job with the font, looks incredible! It does seem to me that maybe we could shorten the 'purpose' category into one column, with different fill colors for different purposes. That way, the cell would contain the purpose instead of the word 'yes'. Also, the purpose would be in the cell instead of the headers. The tables are super long, especially with global headers, so the purpose being there would prevent people from needing to scroll all the way to the top to figure out which category it is. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 15:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Yeah you're right that'd be too long. But if we do that idk how people will be able to sort tha table? Is there a better way that keeps sorting and is compact? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:08, 24 April 2025 (UTC)]

::::::::I wonder if there's a way to sort by color? That way they could sort by book promotion/store promotion etc. first? [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:24, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::You can't sort by non-content formatting of any kind ''per se'', but if you use [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables#Specifying_a_sort_key a data-sort-value=] alongside the cell's pre-content formatting, associated to it either by (careful) manual matching or by the same procedural method that procedurally set the background hue, then that column can be made to sort ''as if'' by colour. e.g., whatever makes a cell red also gives it <code>data-sort-value=0</code>, whatever makes it green gives <code>=1</code>, etc. (Though would be good to further refine the value, in such a case, to be integer+decimals, such that the decimals produce a further logical sorting ''within'' any given run of hue, if that is in any way more logical than not worrying about it.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.130|141.101.99.130]] 17:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Alternatively, we could make it so everything is shown in one unsortable column, but it could expand into multiple sortable columns like the graphs you made. I will also say that I absolutely suck at basi--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)cally any wikitext more advanced than creating a table. This is the reason it depends whether I do the repetitive work. [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al|talk]]) 17:28, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I'm gonna start to bring explanations over and add them to the table on the sandbox page. The project continues! --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]] 18:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh ok you're just going for it! I wanted to make sure everything was ready and decided before starting, just so we don't have to lose our work if we change our minds later! For example, I'm not really sure what "permanent" and temporary means for the comic specific?
:::::::::Also, I thought of something for the sorting of purpose. We could use extremely narrow columns, just one letter, and also colorthe cell? And for clarity we could say "C<nowiki> </nowiki>R" instead of the full "credits" to avoid wasting space? Like the one in [[1608:_Hoverboard#Table_with_references]]? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:53, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::'Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release, while 'temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header. I think the narrow columns are a good idea, but I don't really see where they would be used. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 03:38, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::::::::::}}
Hmm.

> ''Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release.

This i understand; makes sense! Maybe could be reworded.

> ''temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header.

I'm not sure I understand this? Don't comic-specific header texts (let's call them CS from now on) never expire? I thought they overrode the global headers (GL).

Anyways, still awaiting input from Kynde on this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi... Was alerted to this by FaviFake.
:Yes it is my baby, anything with the design of the xkcd page was made by me to begin with. And I have done a huge job finding the different regular header text in the archive.
:I do think a table could be good. However, the current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult. Also there are quite a lot of info for some of these header text, and it could be hard to get into the table.
:I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table. And it will fill quite a lot in the table.
:I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section. Question is if they should have their own page. So there is Header Text (the current page) with a link to a new page with Permanent Header texts.
:Not sure there are many individual header text that was not permanent. So I think the permanent column is not needed, especially since I do not think we should mix the permanent with the real header text! But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
:For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
:Not quite sure what we would sort on... But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
:I'm not going to help with the actual work of moving to a table. But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:47, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::You do have a good point there. Actually, all of these are good points. Maybe we could take out the 'timeframe' column for the CS table and replace it with 'start and end date' for the GL table. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]][[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]][https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices] 13:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::Not that I'm taking any part in this conversion (excelt for giving ideas, when they occur to me), but how about: Table has one (small) column contents act as an #anchor-link to the appropriate extended header-defined information below. The beauty (YMMV) of the tabular/sortable overview being developed whilst retaining the table-incompatible "long descriptive" bits (perhaps with a similar back-anchor to the table-rows so that a minimal amount of table-worthy detail need be included in the long-header.
::And though that ''could'' be done with "[a], [b], [c]" or "[n1], [n2], [n3]" inbuilt wiki-references, I think maybe just plain <code><nowiki>[[#itemFoo|Foo]]</nowiki></code> sort of thing for the Comic or Purpose cell contents. If that works well within a collapsing text area, that might make it available (but not obtrusive to the casual view). Or perhaps send it to a <code>Header text/fuller descriptions]]</code>-ish new sub-page.
::This ''does'' mean a bit more to remember if updating with new instances (add 'line' to table ''and'' add at least a placeholder into the headered paragraphs, not just one or the other) but that much might be made more obvious as a reminder (to those who 'know') or a guide (to newer editors) by a commented out row+paragraph template at the end of each.
::Or is it unfair of me to complicate things further by essentially suggesting both approaches to be carried forward..? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.186|172.70.85.186]] 14:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

2769: Overlapping Circles

2025-04-01T11:34:14Z

172.70.85.186: Undo revision 370993 by CalibansCreations (talk) If you don't like annoying fanfic fans, with your "compomise"(?) then go for two entirely different things for a different joke...

{{comic
| number = 2769
| date = April 28, 2023
| title = Overlapping Circles
| image = overlapping_circles_2x.png
| imagesize = 369x260px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = "The Venn diagram of the sun and the moon is a circle." --someone being snarky at totality
}}

==Explanation==
The comic shows two overlapping circles. This is a simple example of a {{w|Venn Diagram}}, which is a way that set theorists often illustrate the relationships between sets. Venn diagrams can consist of a number of overlapping shapes to describe the similarities and differences between any number of objects. Up to three overlapping circles can be used to represent every combination of membership of those separate sets. Beyond this, circles cannot suffice and other shapes (ovals or even concave shapes) are needed, but just two such areas is as trivial as shown, with the portion of the diagram where the two circles overlap represents the intersection of the sets (items that are in both sets). There are [[:Category:Venn diagrams|several other comics about Venn diagrams]].

The two sets in this diagram are set theorists and astronomers. Set theorists would find the shape here interesting because such diagrams would appear regularly in their work. Astronomers also find overlapping circles interesting, because this is what they see during {{w|eclipses}}, when one astronomical body is directly or partially in front of another. In the overlapping section in the middle would be people who are both set theorists and astronomers. The joke here is that these people would be particularly excited by the shape, because it represents the overlapping of both their fields of study.

Note that Randall seems to have chosen humor over scientific accuracy. Read literally, this diagram appears to be saying that the only people who are excited about the shape are those who are both set theorists and astronomers. The label that is in the {{w|Intersection (set theory)|intersection}} of the two circles should properly apply to their {{w|Union (set theory)|union}}. However, a pedantic person might note that the label is actually within the union of the two circles, so perhaps all is well after all.

A common snarky comment on the Internet is "The Venn diagram of [x] and [y] is a circle" (for example, "fanfic writers" and "virgins"), implying that the two sets are identical. {{w|Totality}} describes a total (full) eclipse, when one astronomical body completely blocks the light from another. During totality, the shape of the eclipse is a circle. The title text references the totality that occurs during a total solar eclipse and its corresponding shape (or "Venn diagram," as the title text phrases it).

This comic was released 8 days after the {{w|Solar eclipse of April 20, 2023}}, which was visible across parts of South East Asia and Australia, and of which an excited astronomer would certainly be aware.

==Transcript==
:[The comic is an image of Venn diagram, which is used to compare groups of objects.]
:[The Venn diagram in the comic has two overlapping circles. The leftmost circle is labeled "set theorists," the rightmost circle is labeled "astronomers," and the intersection between the circles is labeled "people who get excited about this shape."]

[[Category:Venn diagrams]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

{{comic discussion}}

3065: Square Units

2025-03-20T10:20:31Z

172.70.85.186: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3065
| date = March 19, 2025
| title = Square Units
| image = square_units_2x.png
| imagesize = 545x678px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The biggest I've seen in a published source in the wild is an 80-fold error in a reported distance, which I think came from a series of at least three unit conversions and area/length misinterpretations.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BUG IN A SQUARE AREA DEFOLIATION BOT - Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In this comic, [[Megan]] is using her phone to read about an insect species that consumes (hyperbolically described as 'devours') one square inch of grass per day. As it is relayed through a chain of conversations, this measurement gets misinterpreted 11 times until [[Hairbun]] tells other people that it devours an area of grass equal to two times the land area of Australia per day, which is clearly impossible by one insect.{{citation needed}} This is similar to the premise of [[2585: Rounding]].

This gross error is the result of repeatedly misinterpreting the number of square units as the side length of a square, thus increasing the described area by the power of two. The chain also involves converting between an imperial unit and a metric unit, alternating, thus introducing smaller rounding errors even while switching which measurement is "a single square with sides of a certain distance" and which is "the number of squares that are each of unit length". The upshot is that, while each statement has two roughly similar measurements of area, the chain of misunderstanding ends up claiming ever larger relative expanses. The later participants in this chain also clearly forget to sanity-check their figures, blithely informing others that an individual insect is effectively consuming impossibly huge quantities of food, and travelling enormous linear distances every day to do so.

The title text tells us that [[Randall]] once found an 80-fold error in a reported distance in a published source.

===Table of conversions===
{| class="wikitable"
! step !! percentage gain !! total percentage gain !! square inch !! square cm !! square foot !! acre !! square meters !! square kilometers !! square miles
|-
! 1
| N/A || N/A ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 1||style="background-color:red;"| 6.4516 || 0.00694444444 || 1.5942251e-7 || 0.00064516 || 6.4516e-10 || 2.4909767e-10
|-
! 2
| -7% || -7% || 0.93 ||style="background-color:pink;"| 6 || 0.00645835 || 1.4826e-7 || 0.0006 || 6e-10 || 2.3166e-10
|-
! 3
| +600% || +558% || 5.58001 ||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 36 (6x6)||0.0387501 || 8.8958e-7 || 0.0036 || 3.6e-9 || 1.39e-9
|-
! 4
| +3,600% || +20,000.9% || 200.8804||style="background-color:lightgreen;"|1,296 (36x36) || style="background-color:red;"|1.395003 || 3.20249e-5 || 0.1296|| 1.296e-7 || 5.00388e-8
|-
! 5
| -28.3% || +14,400% || 144 || style="background-color:green;"|929.03 || style="background-color:pink;"|1 || 2.2957e-5 ||0.092903 || 9.2903e-8 || 3.587e-8
|-
! 6
| +87,188% || +125,550.25% || 125,550.251 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|810,000 (900x900)|| style="background-color:green;"|871.876744||0.0200155359 || 81||8.1e-5 || 3.1274275e-5
|-
! 7
| +103.22% || +12,960,000% || 129,600 || 836,127||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 900 (30x30) ||0.0206612|| 83.6127||8.3613e-5 || 3.2283e-5
|-
! 8
| +90,000% || +11,664,000,000% || 116,640,000 || 752,514,624||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 810,000 (900x900) || style="background-color:green;"|18.5950413|| 75,251.4624||0.0752514624 || 0.0290547521
|-
! 9
| +107.55% || +12,545,275,491% || 1.255e+8 || 8.094e+8|| 871,200||style="background-color:lightgreen;"| 20|| style="background-color:green;"|80,937.1 || 0.0809371 || 0.03125
|-
! 10
| +7,907,375% || +992,001,984,003,868% || 9,920,019,840,040 || 6.4e+13|| 68,889,026,666.94 || 1,581,474.44139 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6,400,000,000 (80,000x80,000) || 6,400 ||2,471.053814672
|-
! 11
| +0% || +992,001,984,003,868% || 9,920,019,840,040 || 6.4e+13|| 68,889,026,666.94 || 1,581,474.44139 || 6,400,000,000 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6,400 (80x80) ||style="background-color:green;"|2,471.053814672
|-
! 12
| +252,928% || +2,509,056,048,112,096,000% || 2.509056e+16|| 1.6187426e+17 || 1.7424e+14|| 4,000,000,000|| 1.6187426e+13 || 16,187,425.69 || style="background-color:lightgreen;"|6,250,000 (2,500x2,500)
|-
|}
The land area of Australia is 7,688,287 square km or 2,968,464 sq mi, making it the 6th largest country on Earth by area. A 2,500 mile square would actually be 2.1 times greater than the land area of Australia, once again having a rounding error.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Arrows point to each consecutive panel.]

:[Megan is looking at her phone, with Cueball standing next to her.]
:Megan: This newly-described insect can devour up to a square inch of grass per day.
:Cueball: Oh, neat.

:[Cueball is speaking to Ponytail.]
:Cueball: ...it eats a square inch, or 6 cm², of grass per day...

:[Ponytail is speaking to Hairy.]
:Ponytail: ...a 6-centimeter (2½ inch) square of grass, or 36 cm²...

:[Arrows now point to each consecutive conversion.]
:Written out of panel: ...a 36 centimeter square, or over a square foot...
:Written out of panel: ...a square foot, or 900 cm²...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 cm (30 foot) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a 30 foot square of grass (900 square feet)...
:Written out of panel: ...a 900 foot square, or almost 20 acres...
:Written out of panel: ...20 acres (8 hectares, or 80,000 square meters)...
:Written out of panel: ...an 80,000 meter (80 km) square...
:Written out of panel: ...a square 80 km wide, or roughly 2,500 square miles...
:Written out of panel: ...a 2,500-mile square, or twice the land area of Australia, per day...

:[An arrow points from the last conversion to the last panel.]
:[Hairbun is looking at her phone, with White Hat, Danish and Blondie standing next to her.]
:Hairbun: Did you hear about this insect that defoliates the entire land area of Australia twice a day?
:White Hat: Gosh!
:Danish: Wow.
:Blondie: I hope at least it's contained there...

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Danish]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Blondie]]

Talk:2684: Road Space Comparison

2025-02-18T11:01:20Z

172.70.85.186:

Hold on, I'm trying to concoct an interesting 30 goats/20 cabbages/10 wolves problem... [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 20:53, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
S3C0ND P0ST [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.131|172.71.150.131]] 21:12, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

You have no idea how many car-centric infrastructure arguments happen in my discord servers, this is a fantastic comic to post for that[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.55|188.114.102.55]] 21:23, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

What if the last panel also references other river crossing puzzles like the "Missionaries and cannibals problem" or the Flash "Japanese River Crossing" puzzle so you have extra rules for each member of each species? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.97|172.71.98.97]] 22:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC) Alex

My name is GreyFox, and I added the transcript for this page. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.171|172.71.150.171]] 22:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:Aww, they removed my table! [[1450|I liked that table.]] --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.146.65|172.71.146.65]] 21:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
: You're that ninja... [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 07:21, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

So [[1035|the takeway is]]... we can put humans in hamster balls by the handful all season and feel no worse about it than about cars driving down the road? This is awesome! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.215|162.158.2.215]] 22:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:No, unfortunately the comic is missleading! Even though it is labelled as 50 hamsterballs the image only shows 39! [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
::The comic never said it was one person per hamsterball. There's plenty of space in those for the hamster equivalent of a sidecar. [[User:GreatWyrmGold|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold|talk]]) 05:30, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:::But the image shows only one shioulette per hamsterball. I assume this picture is intentionally misleading and Randall was payd by the hamsterball-industry in order to manipulate society towards being pro hamster-ball [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])
:::::Eleven of the silhouettes could be of people wearing an occupied baby-carrier. The varieties of the silhouettes could allow it without requiring finer detail. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:06, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
::::Regarding the hamster wheels: I think the description is missing a reference to sphere packing. It’s the first thing I thought of when I saw panel 8: how many circles/spheres can you fit/pack into a given space is a famous mathematical problem that I believe Randall has played with before. [[Special:Contributions/75.174.26.242 |75.174.26.242]]13:14UTC, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Saw this one recently, can't be a coincidence [https://files.fietsersbond.nl/app/uploads/2011/07/18104628/enfb_ruimtegebruik.jpg NL Fietsersbond Ruimtegebruik] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.105|108.162.221.105]] 22:25, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

:No, it can not. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.39|172.71.142.39]] 16:13, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm a bit unsure about the linked "52 person tandem" (also, the way it is currently made a bottom-of-page reference link, which we avoid on this site). It took me a while (behind all the popups the referenced link gave me, typically) to realise the only picture of it was the miniscule thumbnail planted at the start. Which explained the anomolous wheel-count, if I understand the low-res image correctly. I would dispute Ripleys'/Guiness's acceptance of that thing as a 'tandem'. It is clearly a multi-stage {{w|Trailer bike|Rann Trailer}}-style construction (possibly with individual tandem-'trailers' in there to get the wheel count down to ''no more'' than the rider-count). Also, how on earth would a linked line of trailers actually start bursting tyres? The load of riders plus frames would spread out about as evenly as for any given single occupant bike (certainly less than the forces on the wheels of a proper tandem/trandem, or even a tandem-trike!), so I'm not sure how they even buckled a wheel. So I'd like to know what the longest two-/three-wheel tandem is (and certainly how anything like Randall's slightly snaking frame does not buckle), if anybody has their finger on that rather more relevent information, rather than that faux-tandem. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.137|172.71.178.137]] 03:03, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is the last block also a subtle dig at Putin's blown-up Kerch bridge? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.146|172.70.175.146]] 12:22, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:then it would be 50 people with 30 sleeping bags, 20 guns and 10 medikits :) [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]])

Intrinsic problems to the multi-human/goat/cabbage/wolf riddle:

- How many generic objects can you take at once? (If you can take 110+, there is no riddle here)

- How many goats can one person transport at once? (Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?)

- How many people are required to corral the goats? (Will the goats all run away when they get to the other side?)

- Are the humans able to catch the goats? And, if the humans *can* catch the goats, does that mean the wolves can, too?

- Is there a way to restrain the wolves?

- Can a wolf be lonely?--[[User:Cwallenpoole|Cwallenpoole]] ([[User talk:Cwallenpoole|talk]]) 13:23, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
:"Can you put 30 goats on a boat without pandemonium?" - nicely done. :o)[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:51, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

: If one person only is needed to "corral" 30 Goats/Wolves/Cabbages, then the problem is moot - the first boat ride just leaves a human on the other side of the water to watch over whatever is brought
[[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105|172.70.230.105]] 14:20, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

: My assumption is that the boat is ''at least'' as capable as the human+wolf+goat+cabbage one, of carrying up to one occupant in addition to the human required to row it. And that the presence of one human is capable of both stopping a wolf from attacking a goat and of a goat attacking a cabbage (but, for the sake of simplicity/redundancy, not while rowing).
: As a fall-back position (because multiple predators/prey exist), perhaps also consider that this time one human would be needed to restrain each goat-tempted wolf, ''plus'' an additional human to restrain each cabbage-tempted goat. (With 50 people, 30 goats, 20 cabbages, and 10 wolves, that would mean 10 wolf-handlers, 30 goat-handlers and 10 'idle' people (perhaps each normally carrying 2 cabbages?); the opposite assumption, that one person is needed as a protector, not a restrainer, would require 20 cabbage-carriers, 30 goat-herders and the wolves must then just pad along behind of their own (goat-hungry?) volition, and this would also demand a different approach to multi-cargo boats.)
: I'll stick with the abstraction of one rower and one 'cargo', on the principle that multiple such journeys (with a single cargo-type) emulate a single journey of multiple (single-typed) cargo. And if there's enough space to send a 'set' of all three non-human types ''plus'' sufficient humans (in addition to the rower) to prevent in-boat carnage, then there's much too trivial a solution.
: So, anyway, with the "restrainer" allocation of humans, ten spare humans (their cabbages left on the floor) can be used to get nine of them over, whilst the tenth (at random/not necessarily the same one, per crossing/back-crossing) is designated rower.
:At that point, the goats can be sent over (as one-by-one as necessary), with the option of (either interspersed or as a bunch) sending over the goat-restrainers (if the non-boated goats cannot even be trusted without individual handlers — though goats tend to be trained to flock with minimal supervision — then no more than nine goats will get followed by the euivalent now-spare goat-handlers, repeat as necessary (3 x 9-pairings, then final 3-pairings?), though actually leaving up to nine original goat-handlers behind, to save time later). Then send the cabbages over (even if it still means just one cabbage per trip!), there being sufficient goat-handlers to prevent far-shore (vegetarian) slaughter. Next, in the spirit of the original problem, bring back goats (and handlers-less-nine), in preparation for wolves(+single handler, at an appropriate juncture) and then all goats (and ''all'' remaining humans) on a third goat crossing.
:Though, alternatively, you could also send ''all'' the original goat-handlers across (now nine excess humans on the far side), 1-to-9 of the wolves, at least one handler, the remaining wol[f|ves] and handler(s), without any back-journeys (except by the unaccompanied designated oarsman, each time before the final trip) at all points. You could also send over "cabbage then human then goat then human then wolf" on repeat, so long as there were still wolves/goats involved, or "two cabbages, three humans, three goats, one human, one wolf" times ten, with the other ('spare') humans whenever they wanted (at end, in advance, interspersed) according to taste and/or paranoia.
:The "guardian"-human scenario is already trickier, as one human must always be a rower during the main period of the problem, leaving either one cabbage vulnerable to goat ''or'' one goat vulnerable to wolf, at all times. Unless the rower can take their 'personal' guarded responsibility back and forth in the boat with them (and protected!) at all times, regardless of what other (and number of) cargo/passenger(s) they are capable of conveying. But then this becomes just as trivial, as every "guardianed" non-human remains guarded in a simple once-over process (whatever order/mingling is possible), with the only query being as to how best (of several options) to get the unguardianed (only guarded-against!) wolves over.
:Perhaps there's a single-solution (or 'very limited subset of exact solutions') if there's an actual stipulation that the boat can "carry C cabbages, G goats, W wolves ''or'' H humans per 'seat', and has S seats (one of which must be the human rower(s)", and that the rules of restraining/guarding be set down more precisely. And maybe differently for the boat, with at least one human having either less control (too busy rowing!) or more (is holding a bloomin' long oar, for greater reach!) over the current disposition of contents.
:At the simplest, all the possible extensions to the problem being taken into account, the current ("guardian-orientated") setup is stymied by the rower being no longer able to guard their charge, so they leave their goat behind, deliver everyone else in one trip over (in the sufficiently large boat for everyone to be able to guard everything that needs guarding), then return for their own goat; or go with their goat, first, then come back for everyone else. But a "restraining-orientated" scenario with ''more'' difficulty in keeping the boat in proper order might develop a particularly clever (and necessary) sequence of transits more akin to the original puzzle. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.170|172.69.43.170]] 10:46, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

I suppose instead of being critical numbers it has to be done with critical ratios. Gives you a little more wiggle room in the ordering of the trips and optimization but would read basically as the solution to the original but 25 times in a row. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.51|108.162.241.51]]

*raises eyebrows at the suggestion that a 50-person tandem is only impractical in a city...*[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 13:52, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

The multiseater 'bike' drawing is off, for me. A tandem (including trandem, quad, quint, etc) tends to root the stoker's(/subsequent stokers') handlebars directly under the seat of the rider in front of them (steersman/intermediate stokers) in any decent scratch-built frame, not well behind the seated body (and presmably a head/hat of each person, seated upright). It's closer in longitudinal scale to what you get of an overhead view of a [https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/campaigns-guide/guide-tag-longs-trailer-bikes compound bike] with handlebars on or just behind the towing-point (though now it looks a little too close, practically, as there might not be room between the bottom-bracket/down-tube/head-tube to clear the rear wheel of the bike-rear in front of them... if not {{w|Moulton Bicycle|Moulton-sized}} units, which causes other building problems). Which also perhaps accounts for the slightly snaking plan view, being articulated. If well constructed with the right attachment geometries, this could actually travel city streets quite well by ensuring the wheel track of each compound unit follows the path of the weaving wheel(s) ahead of them. Although it'd need practiced riders to prevent lateral oscilations causing rolling forces to drag the whole thing sideways down to hit the ground. But I'll forgive Randall, as he clearly doesn't have enough practical experience with bike/tandem construction. Anyway, as the original '52 seat tandem bicycle' link was not a tandem (nor a bicycle) I looked up what I ''think'' is the correct most-seated tandem (tried checking Guiness Book Of Records website, just in case, but its cookie-authorisation popovers made it impossible to read) and added that as well as caveating the existing presumption of tandemness for the drawing and the already suggested machine. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.5|172.71.178.5]] 18:54, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

There used to be a lot of videos on YouTube with rigid human-sized hamster balls, but the only ones I can find are the flexible inflatables now, and all the stunts seem to be with concentric inner compartment inside a shock-absorbed outer core. Wasn't there some horrible injury in the news some years back? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.54|172.69.34.54]] 08:30, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

The “one giant pulled by many smalls” thing has been done by Märklin (manufacturer of H0-scale locomotives). 200 H0-scale locomotives pulled one real passenger wagon. Of course, similar stuff has been done by other groups. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 13:51, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Note that, as the author of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2684:_Road_Space_Comparison&diff=prev&oldid=296876 this removed statement], I can absolutely tell that other editor that it was not written as an anti-bicycle statement, but ''as'' a cyclist. Not worth reinstating, but the image given clearly goes against both my own and the [https://www.cyclinguk.org/blog/why-highway-code-should-protect-riding-two-abreast generally] [https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20220127-Highway-Code-%E2%80%93-Riding-two-abreast-0 accepted] [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82 official rules] in my location. It does annoy motorists (and pedestrians; and me, in whatever capacity I am currently journeying) when ill-informed/uncaring/provocative people on bikes flout those rules, and then makes it worse for those who obey the rules (ride abreast, at any given time, because it would never be safer for a motorist to pass a vastly longer single-file group; or simply to ride on the road, as is both our right and responsibility). Not knowing how the rules and regs work outside the UK (but assuming that the practical conventions are similar, where not totally over-regulated out of existence) I had wanted to just say that a 'peleton group' like that is not good practice on the open-road.
 And, obviously, there are exceptional circumstances (if not rules being bent) if we see human-hamsterballs, cars stacked atop other vehicles, stradle-driving and insisting on taking wolves(/etc) through a flooded section of road, which may or may not be 'open' in any real sense, especially to other forms of traffic... But I'm a lot more familiar with the cycling issue, so I added that ''pro-''cycling bit of advice. Not that it will improve matters, or significantly add to understanding, but it made me feel a tiny bit better at the time, and so thanks for reading. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.48|172.70.86.48]] 10:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)
: Bias may not have been intended, but that doesn't mean that (socialised and internalised) bias wasn't present. It's a common misconception, but there are no rules against riding abreast or in groups in the UK, and it's often recognised that it can be safer for cyclists to do so. Where there are such rules, they are anti-cycling rules, designed to move cyclists over out of the way of the supposedly more important motor traffic. Motorists aren't annoyed by the cyclists, per se - they're annoyed because their perceived superiority as road users is challenged by having to wait behind. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.225|172.70.85.225]] 13:17, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
:: This does not contradict the statement that riding excessively abreast (i.e. across multiple lanes) does no favours to the cycling community (my community). As an act of protest, you may be able to do many things that aren't technically illegal but for which annoyance of others is going to be a self-defeating activity if you want those in the wrong (misinformed motorists, especially) to learn and understand and appreciate.
:: The recent resurgent demand for "bicycle licence plates", unworkable as it is, arose not just from people doing outright illegal things (like using pavements, junping lights, reckless riding in general) but also being inconsiderate..
:: I'm involved in cycle-sport, racing on the road, and the right to do this has been historically retained (and actually engrained in law) against a background of anti-cycling opinion, and I would like this to continue. It is not just the ignorant outsider, who maybe I could enlighten and get on side (as if there's any hope of that), but also those participants (or non-participants who nevertheless are seen as the same in the eyes of the outsider) who bring the sport into disrepute by not obeying the Highway Code, etc.
:: And group-riding in a peleton fashion (without being ''in'' a peleton, anyway, the management of which I leave to those responsible for mass-start races who are additionally already required to get police permission/road-closures arranged) doesn't make a safer environment and doesn't help the (rightful) acceptance of cycling by those who observe such apparent chaos. It's bad enough with the perfectly legal two-abreast group riding which, as you say and which I obviously know perfectly well, is also often the safest option.
:: The perceived superiority of motorists vs others (or indeed others vs everyone else, as a pedestrian I've been verbally abused/threatened by pavement-riders!) is a problem which doesn't get fixed by thoughtlessness, hot-headedness or basic impetuosity. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.42|162.158.203.42]] 19:35, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
::: The bias comes in, though, when you only comment on the behaviour and supposed inconsiderateness of the cyclists in the comic, and not on that of the other road users depicted. The 'peleton' of cars in panel 4 is actually far more likely to be encountered in urban areas, can be equally a catalyst for frustration and annoyance for other road users who are obstructed by it (in this case, often cyclists), and likely involves a lot of thoughtlessness and inconsiderateness in that drivers have chosen to make unnecessary journeys by car. But no-one comments on that (suggesting that they should break up into smaller groups to make it easier for other road users to negotiate around them, for example), because of the ingrained societal bias that cars on the road are 'normal', whereas bicycles are an aberration, and should get out of the way of 'proper traffic'.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.58|172.70.91.58]] 08:41, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
:::: Maybe if they could act like proper traffic, they wouldn't be seen as a meanace or problem as opposed to 'normal' traffic. I can't even count with all 20 fingers in my body the amount of times a bike rider almost crashed into me just this past year alone because they've got it into their heads they get to use roads, but don't have to follow traffic lights like everyone else and are exempt from keeping an eye our for pedestrians or other traffic. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.110.205|141.101.110.205]] 15:08, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
::::: Driving just yesterday: other cars exceeding the speed limit; the same cars (or those from the other direction) overtaking and having to cut back in because of opposing traffic/myself; has that light changed to red..? - never mind, continue through; well, you're using your indicators on the traffic island but you're signalling your exit ''way'' too early/late and might as well not have bothered; never mind those lane markings, you can cut across/straddle however you like; car parks... the second frame of [[562: Parking|this]] happened (but not the rest, unfortunately). Cyclists on the road, less problem than the horses ridden on the road (not an issue, I held behind) or encountering vehicles on narrow lanes where I needed to use passing places/the verge to allow us to pass each other).
::::: Bike riders can be bad road users, but they're probably the same people who are bad road users when driving cars, or the uneducated young (there ''used'' to be {{w|Cycling Proficiency Test|some regular tuition at schools}}, or at least your family could teach you how to be both safe and sane on the road!)...
::::: I'd be very happy if all bike riders were proper cyclists and road users - I'm actually not that happy with most "cycle paths" created as a sop to both road-wary bike users and cycle-unfriendly motorists). But while I will acknowledge that there's problem people on two wheels, I don't accept the premise that cyclists are intrinsically a problem, just the idiots of all kinds who don't do themselves or anyone else any favours. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 20:16, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

hey, the image on this wiki is different from the image on the xkcd site now [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.56|162.158.107.56]] 15:24, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
:Someone who can upload images will sort that out shortly (and then can add "This comic originall looked like <old image>" and the category for the comic having been changed). Looks like Randall took to heart it not having been clearly 50 hamsterball-people. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.3|172.71.94.3]] 20:12, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Have a feeling that this comic is a parody of the recent renowed AI dawing of grenerating a picture by literal description. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.217|172.71.158.217]] 07:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

What about clown cars? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.157|162.158.186.157]] 03:09, 18 February 2025 (UTC)
: These aren't clowns, so they're not trained to use them. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you desire conversing]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 07:14, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

3019: Advent Calendar Advent Calendar

2025-01-16T11:53:17Z

172.70.85.186: /* Transcript */ Maybe this will do it properly?

{{comic
| number = 3019
| date = December 2, 2024
| title = Advent Calendar Advent Calendar
| image = advent_calendar_advent_calendar_2x.png
| imagesize = 482x324px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The growth rate of items per day may may seem absurd, but it's actually much less than the acceleration in the 12 Days of Christmas song.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Advent calendar}}s are a form of countdown to Christmas consisting of a card or structure with one closed "window"/opening for each day. Every day, another "window" is opened (e.g. a cardboard flap is opened along perforations), revealing a small present (traditionally, just a thematic picture or chocolate). While the religious season of {{w|Advent}} traditionally begins four Sundays before Christmas, most Advent calendars begin on December 1st for simplicity. In 2024, when this comic was published, the Advent season coincidentally starts on December 1st. Advent calendars usually have either 24 or 25 doors (ending on either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day), depending on manufacturer's choice and/or local tradition.

In this comic, Randall has devised an Advent calendar that contains multiple smaller Advent calendars, each of which contains the same number of items as there are days left until (and ''including'') Christmas Day. By the time he reaches Christmas, he will have 325 different items, or 350 if counting the sub-calendars. The calendar is shown as it might be on December 2nd, the date of publication of this strip. The "window" in the upper left, presumed to be for the 1st of December, has 25 sub-windows, of which two are open. (One would have been opened on December 1st and the next for the day after.) The "window" 5th from the left in the bottom row, probably for December 2nd, has 24 sub-windows, of which one (that for the initial 2nd) is open.

The title text refers to {{w|The Twelve Days of Christmas (song)|The Twelve Days of Christmas}}, a traditional Christmas carol in which the singer receives one set of gifts from their true love for each day of the Twelve Days of Christmas. On day one, they receive one gift, and on day ''n'', they receive again all the gifts they received on day ''n-1'', plus ''n'' copies of a new gift. The exact gifts given each day vary by version of the song, receiving 78 gifts on day 12, for a total of 364 gifts. For the Advent calendar Advent calendar, each day a number of items equal to the number of days left until Christmas are added. There are 364 items total in the 12 Days of Christmas, the final day itself having exceeded the gifts of the nested calendars (the sub-gift count being 325, and regardless of the 25 calendars also being included). However the advent calendar uses 25 days rather than just 12, hence the song's acceleration in number of gifts each day is much higher. The title text says “may” twice, either mistakenly, or maybe on purpose since the comic's name has word duplication.

The advent calendar's advent calendar gift total follows the {{w|triangular number}} sequence of all new gifts on a given day being one more than those the day before: on the first day, this is 1 (the first sub-gift of the first sub-calendar); on the second, we now have 3 (add two sub-gifts from two sub-calendars); on the third, we have 6 (three sub-gifts added), etc. The formula for the total on day ''n'' is <table style="display: inline-table; line-height: 0.6em; vertical-align: middle; font-size:9pt; text-size-adjust: none;"><tr><td style="text-decoration: underline">''n''(''n''+1)</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: center">2</td></tr></table>. For the Twelve Days song (which goes from the 25th of December to 5th of January), ''each day'' adds to the total the next ''triangular number'' in the sequence: +1=1, +3=4, +6=10, etc... The formula for this {{w|tetrahedral number}} (a 'pyramid of triangular numbers') is <table style="display: inline-table; line-height: 0.6em; vertical-align: middle; font-size:9pt; text-size-adjust: none;"><tr><td style="text-decoration: underline">''n''(''n''+1)(''n''+2)</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: center">6</td></tr></table>, and matches a triple-nested meta-Advent Calendar's non-calendar gift count. This already starts in a more rapid escalation of gift-giving, immediately after the first day where both counts are at one item. However, due to the later start of the Twelve Days, one would have to extend the gift-giving patterns to the 17th Day Of Christmas (and thus the 41st day of Advent) for the number of ''true love'' gifts (969) to properly overtake the continuing meta-calendar's ones, with (902) or without (861) counting the sub-calendars as gifts. (The number of ultimate gifts in any quadruple-nested Advent Calendar would be <table style="display: inline-table; line-height: 0.6em; vertical-align: middle; font-size:9pt; text-size-adjust: none;"><tr><td style="text-decoration: underline">''n''(''n''+1)(''n''+2)(''n''+3)</td></tr><tr><td style="text-align: center">24</td></tr></table>, excluding all the calendars themselves.)

It is not clear what is inside each sub-calendar. The typical filling would be chocolate, however it could also be possible that the advent calendar advent calendars had even more advent calendars within. That this is not the case is revealed in the title text as, if they were (and were run concurrently), the number of (sub-sub-)gifts would always equal those in the song.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[On a grey board, there are 23 Advent calendars behind large "windows", numbered from 3 to 25, plus two open calendars with their covers torn off.]
:[From top-left to bottom-right, the boxes are numbered as such: (opened), 14, 23, 16, 11, 3; 5, 24, 18, 7, 21; 10, 17, 4, 9, 22, 15, 12; 8, 20, 13, 25, (opened), 19, 6]
:[Each calendar numbered ''n'' has 26−''n'' squares in it.]
:[The open calendar on the top left has 25 squares, two of which are black. The other open calendar has 24 squares, one of which is black.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:I like Advent calendars, so I got an Advent calendar that gives me a new one every day until Christmas.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Christmas]]
[[Category:Calendar]]
[[Category:Songs]]
[[Category:Comics sharing name|Advent Calendar Advent Calendar]]

3004: Wells

2024-10-29T16:47:36Z

172.70.85.186: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 3004
| date = October 28, 2024
| title = Wells
| image = wells_2x.png
| imagesize = 306x402px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = You do have to be careful, though--sometimes, instead of water, you hit this free fuel that you can sell for a lot of money instead.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a MAGICALLY WATERLOGGED OIL DRILL - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Water is essential to life, and humans have long sought out places to get it. Freshwater surface sources like rivers and lakes most obviously dictate where people live, but are subject to changes of quantity and quality (e.g. the seasons/weather and what other people are doing with(/in) the water, upstream). Water can also be present beneath the surface in {{w|aquifer}}s, gradually having soaked through into various soil and/or rock layers, and may emerge (far more reliably and usably) from {{w|spring line settlement|handy seeps and springs}} where the local ground topology is favorable. But geology and geography don't coincide so usefully everywhere that someone requires water.

Many modern countries (and a number of historic ones) will have at least some ability to pipe water from areas of high availability (e.g. from areas with reservoirs, natural or constructed) to other places of higher consumption (towns and cities), but not everyone will have [[1599: Water Delivery|piped water]] and may find it better to rely upon a {{w|well}}, a hole dug into the ground, deep enough to reach the local water to lift or [[2963: House Inputs and Outputs|pump]] out as needed. A borehole is similar, but may even puncture impermeable bedrock to access water held (under significant pressure) in rock layers below.

This comic pokes fun of the seemingly improbable characteristics of wells and boreholes; talking about how water "randomly" forms below the surface of the ground and how they "magically" refill themselves. In reality the complex systems of the {{w|water cycle}} dictate the formation of the underground 'pools' that the wells take from and the seeps of underground water that supply them, meaning that it's not really so surprising (nor necessarily quite as simple as it sounds) to get your water from beneath the ground, and is a process {{w|Elephant#Behaviour and ecology|not restricted to humans}}. This theme of things that seem like they shouldn't work, but do, has also been used in [[2540: TTSLTSWBD]], [[2115: Plutonium]], and [[2775: Siphon]], among others.

The title text points out that in some cases, people intending to drill water wells instead found oil beds. Oil is a very valuable energy source, so they became [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCfGVLKr5oM very wealthy as a result]. This is the source of the idiom "struck oil" to mean receiving a windfall as a result of a lucky occurrence. But you have to be careful — if you blindly "drink whatever you find at the bottom", as Megan says, you'll [https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/injuries-and-poisoning/poisoning/hydrocarbon-poisoning get very sick] if it's oil rather than water. Oil tends to be buried much deeper than water, but each has their own (different) prerequisites that don't make it equally likely to get either (or both) at any given spot. A [[1662: Jack and Jill|prior comic]] made some related points about ground-hydrology.

This comic bears similarity to a [https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/06/11 Calvin and Hobbes comic from 1993], Randall may have been aware of, in that it points out properties of a common natural drink that can appear disgusting when the underpinnings are left out.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
:[Megan is on the left hand side and is facing Cueball who is on the right side and facing her. Megan has her left hand raised.]
:Megan: I need water, so I think I'll dig a deep hole and drink whatever liquid I find at the bottom.
:Cueball: What will you do after you drink it all? Dig another hole?
:Megan: I dunno. Hopefully it magically refills itself or something.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:It's ridiculous that wells work.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Geology]]

Talk:2979: Sky Alarm

2024-09-06T00:27:50Z

172.70.85.186: Undo revision 350016 by Fabian42 (talk) Undo, with ''actual'' last addition reapplied, as various random bits (including 'standard header comment') were edited out during that edit, for no reason.

♫♪ Happy Birthday to me, happy birthday to me... ♪♫ :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:55, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I've tried to do just this by subscribing to a channel promisingly named "AstroAlert", which then proceeded to spam me 500 times per day with messages about a random meteor on the opposite part of the world. Woe. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.110.200|162.158.110.200]] 05:15, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:Hence the need for this alarm, to keep it LOCAL, :) That's the thing, any such thing needs a LOCATION, to limit results to what is locally relevant to each person. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

This comic seems super simple, so I added as muc( explanation as I can think of... [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Local58 moment 💔 [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.138|172.70.85.138]] 11:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

With that device, no work is ever going to be done again... D: [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.24|108.162.221.24]] 11:36, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

There is a nice site called [https://apod.nasa.gov/ Astronomy Picture of the Day] that is like this. Alas, it is "A cool space thing happened three days ago - sorry you missed it". --[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 11:41, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like it needs a sky dome camera system (like they made for immersive filmimg) on the roof coupled with statistical analysis (mistakenly aka AI) to recognise and record 'interesting' things, coupled with localised alerts for known phenomena. A product for someone? [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 11:46, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Most cool astronomical events don't come up so suddenly that you need an alarm. We know about eclipses years in advance, meteor showers recur annually, comets have months of warning, and unusual auroras are usually known a few days early. Anything sudden will probably also be short-lived, so by the time you get outside it will be over. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:If you're anything like me, you're often eager to see (predicable space phenomenon) and then get reminded of it a day too late when the photos starts appearing on the internet. Though that could just as easily solved with a reminder on a standard calendar app, if only you had something reminding youto set up reminders. What would be nice would be an app where you put in your location and it gives you the next week's A) weather forecast, and B) list of interestingly visible space thingies. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.142|172.69.246.142]] 14:38, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Seems like there should be a name for these alerts, like "Amber Alert" for missing children. I nominate "Neil Alert" -- it should probably use Neil deGrasse Tyson's voice. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 15:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Since the characters in the comic are the same as in the previous ISS comic, I like to think that they're in the ISS and Megan is getting ready to do an EVA (ignore the fact that such a desk wouldn't make sense, or the walking, or that prepping for the EVA would probably take well over a full orbit) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.223.93|172.71.223.93]] 17:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Dang, we really cleaned up all the incomplete explanations, didn't we?
Either that, or someone just went around and removed all the tags [[User:New editor|New editor]] ([[User talk:New editor|talk]]) 19:50, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
:I'm not too sure on that actually, considering that there's been people using AI to write explanations. It's unfortunately a possibility that somebody used AI and then removed the tags. Hoping to be proven wrong though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.250|172.70.110.250]] 09:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
::Even before the latest craze for AI, premature Incomplete-Tag removal has been a thing. (IMO, if it's less than a week old, then there ''might'' be someone yet to check in.)
::Not that the Incomplete status is actually what it used to be (the momentum of contributors hardly lets a new comic go up without a very rapid 'full' explanation edit, and there's basically no big 'backfilling' needed on historic articles for the most part). These days, the Incomplete tag is a friendly quirk, with the replacemet of the BOT bit with something homorously topical to the comic (with any luck!) being its main attraction, and (apart from possibly confusing newbugs to the site... though, honestly, any newbug to ''any'' site is always going to have to learn the local community culture, and it's the same with the Citation Needed tag) it no longer functions as an ''actual'' call to edit. Edits will happen immediately, and probably happen long afterwards, regardless. But it's become a form of treasured landmark for those who have seen more than a few articles being created and dealt with.
::Then there are times when clearly someone has 'wiped the tag' off of even the last article (published within the last day, even). With or without it, the articles will get edited, but that'd be definitely premature. Believing that everything that can be said about the comic ''has'' been said about the comic (or, indeed, that all the wrong things said about it have been corrected/deleted) is an optomistic viewpoint on one's own understanding. Give it that week or so, and at least a day or so since the last actual edit, before presuming that you know the tag isn't needed any more. (As I said, it's actually not needed at all for attracting people's attention, but it still has that connection. But what you're really depriving people of is the latest consensus funny 'BOT replacement statement', which is a major part of our own independent contribution to this documentation of the comic. It belongs to us, rather than basically just being a reiteration of Randall's own humour. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.58.3|172.70.58.3]] 11:17, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Does anyone know of anything like this? Something that will tell me about things like upcoming meteor showers, comets, auroras, etc. the day before, rather than hearing about it the day after from people who somehow knew about it? To this day I still have no idea how people find out about these things before they happen {{unsigned ip|162.158.154.134|13:35, 1 September 2024}}
:Offline, the national (and local) Weather broadcasts might give info on "what might be visible tonight". Or at least respond to the preceding News programme's "and finally..." if it features the note that supermoons will happen or aurora have a decent chance to and all that remains is the hope of clear sky. That's UK television, can't speak for wherever you are/what you might watch.
:Online, it would depend upon what you can imagine wanting to know. Keep an eye on something obvious like space.com (which might have internal/external links to gateways that push notifications on various subjects) or go the full hog and search for "aurora alert", "meteor alert", "rocket launch alert" in every sort of phrnomenon that you think might (if timed/located well) interest you and be visible.
:The comic device might be either configured to deal with everything the comic characters might be interested in, nails absolutely ''anything'' (without prejudice/selectability) or perhaps (over time) has an AI/heuristic element that 'learns' what random phenomena most interest you as it collates so many possible feed options (itself, or via its manufacturer's centrally maintained servers).
:But it looks like a project ripe for a 'Maker' to try. Set up an Arduino/Raspberry Pi/whatever with a "speaker/siren and lights" housing and an internet connection with suitably configured feed-scraping commands run within it (or via a separate computer to which it connects) that makes a fuss whenever a suitable notification is passed. Add to that maybe some skyward-facing camera(s) with one degree or other of image-processing applied to their images to (for example) identify when a particularly nice sunset is happening with plenty of rose-tinted clouds. With enough foresight (and the right processing) it could pick up particularly aesthetic cloudscapes, the spontaneous murmurations of starlings, an amusing conjunction of contrails, the first snowflakes of winter or (back to space things) a surprise Earth-skimming bolide... whatever your imagination, technical tinkering and subsequent data-munging could get your "Sky's-Pi Alarm" (or whatever it is) to make its noises for.
:I don't actually subscribe to anything (as proxy for my imagined self-contain/collating device), so I can't tell you any particularly good sources of info, but there'll be some out there. Like you can get earthquake alerts (or at least "yeah, we also know about it, be careful" semi-simultaneous detection), tornado alerts, flood aleets and other hobbyist/public-safety notification systems. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.207|172.70.162.207]] 14:58, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:There's a link to subscribe to Google and Apple calendars at this site: https://www.nytimes.com/explain/2024/astronomy-space-calendar. [[User:L-Space Traveler|L-Space Traveler]] ([[User talk:L-Space Traveler|talk]]) 12:17, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::I wanted to mention that as well (but then had tech issues). Additionally, there is a rocket launch calendar [here https://bit.ly/SpaceLaunchCalendar] (tiny plus icon at the bottom right to subscribe). The same person also has a miscellaneous space-related events calendar (reentry, docking, spacewalks, …), but I have no idea anymore where I found it. The Google calendar ID is gp6s5vrim71h78d9fic2vd3gfg, if that helps anyone. The YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@DrBecky/videos "Dr. Becky"] has monthly space news, covering events of the past and coming month. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 21:58, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

At the moment, a device like this might actually be useful for all of us who irritate their friends and family by going out every evening at around 10 when it's dark but Corona Borealis is still a fair distance above the horizon, because of this [https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/t-coronae-borealis-nova nova-in-waiting]. There is a distinct chance it'll be cloudy on the nights it happens anyway, because ''that's reality: always pissing on the epic moment'' ([https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89186.Pushing_Ice?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=cSxwg6qHB1&rank=6 this last part is a quote, here's the source]) As with many glorious celestial events, if you don't know what it signifies, it'll just be another of many inconspicious little dots of light, and if you don't know or care what the constellations normally look like, you won't even notice. It'll still be an awesome once-in-a-lifetime event to watch, but be aware at all times that for all practical purposes (and for so-called "normal" people) the awesomeness is all in your head.* [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 15:30, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
: see [[1644: Stargazing]], [[2017: Stargazing 2]] and [[2274: Stargazing 3]] for further reference. To be honest, I'm actually waiting on xkcd's take on the event as much as on T Coronae Borealis going boom already. [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 15:30, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

I previously changed the words from the alarm in the Transcript to italics, but I wasn't convinced that the noises from the alarm were also italicized. I see someone else changed them to italics as well, but I wonder if anyone else is of the same mind as myself. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 14:16, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
:The transcript shouldn't actually use (or rely upon) formatting, really, though saying something like <code><nowiki>:[The device emits sounds and speech, in italics] ''The things the device says''</nowiki></code> in both description ''and'' markup would satisfy both human and non-human readers better than one method alone. I've not been involved in that transcript, probably won't, but it's the kind of expansion that I'd expect (done with more thought than this quick note, maybe). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.207|172.70.162.207]] 14:58, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

'''NOAA weather radio:''' How has nobody mentioned the NWS NOAA weather radio system (162.400–162.550 MHz)? It has both continuous broadcasting of weather information as well as a special system of alert tones that many receivers can automatically recognize and then flag to the user in whatever way. It's kind of like this, except maybe that watches and warnings are about severe weather and not "cool stuff happening." [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:51, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

spaceweather.com - provides aurora alerts to your phone, solar flare warnings for expected solar activity, near earth asteroid fly pasts, meteor showers, geomagnetic storm warnings, and generally announces upcoming celestial events such as conjunctions, comets, predicted nova (eg T CrB), and more. Also provided imagery of past events too short or local for most people to catch including noctilucent clouds, rocket fuel dumps, fireballs, and rare forms of lightning. Also ongoing weekly measures of radiation levels at altitude from balloon flights over the continental US. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.141|108.162.241.141]] 14:24, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

== T Coronae Borealis ==

Paul mentioned T Coronae Borealis, but it's worth calling attention to it more specifically. It's a once-in-a-lifetime chance to see a (sort of) scheduled nova. It's unlikely you can actually witness the explosion in real time, but you can see the before (now) and after (any day now) without great effort:

Go outside tonight and look at the "before" so you will know it has changed when you see the "after". And the "after" may only last a day or two, hence, the appeal of the Sky Alarm. Or monitor other pages for updates, such as:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_Coronae_Borealis

In September 2024, in the USA, it's visible after sunset, nearly overhead, and then (like everything) it sets in the west a few hours later. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.20|172.71.154.20]] 00:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)