explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2722: Etymonline

2023-01-10T11:01:07Z

172.70.91.128: Jovian blimps

Random fact: I recently finished reading etymonline.com from beginning to end. It taught me things about the English language that I didn't know that I didn't know. [[User:Darthpoppins|Darthpoppins]] ([[User talk:Darthpoppins|talk]]) 00:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
:Nice. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.167.235|172.71.167.235]] 04:16, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Dear whomever wrote the current explanation, please take an English composition course. It's clear you mean well, but it's really hard to read your work. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.216|172.71.158.216]] 04:44, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

In the comic, french word "étymologie" is incorrectly spelled "ethimologie" which is referred to as "Old French". I wonder whether that mistake was done on purpose ?
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.222|141.101.68.222]] 08:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
: "Old French etimologie, ethimologie (14c., Modern French étymologie), from Latin etymologia, from Greek etymologia" from the Etymonline entry for "etymology"[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.223|172.70.162.223]] 10:25, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

: Given that it's over 350 years from now, it really ought to say 'from Old English etymology', with what we currently call Old English now being known as Really Old English.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.65|172.71.178.65]] 09:09, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Note that the book 'quoted' from is about Jovian blimps, meaning airship floating in the atmosphere of Jupiter. Which sounds really cool. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 11:01, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:2719: Hydrogen Isotopes

2023-01-03T15:54:04Z

172.70.91.128:

This shows as a 404 on xkcd.com but in my RSS feed i can see the comic
: Works for me. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.9|172.69.34.9]] 02:25, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::works for me now too but it didnt before
::: It works on m.xkcd.com and on the homepage of xckd, but the direct link gives me a 404. Various services such as the Wayback Machine show it as loading though. Could be a bad cache on some service. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.86|162.158.63.86]] 02:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Could someone add an explanation of Nydnonen? I don't get it and it's google proof [[Special:Contributions/172.71.210.209|172.71.210.209]] 05:04, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Benzodiakanine
: Nothing. Was hopeful about {{w|List of Greek and Latin roots in English/N}} but nope. Tried stemming on all the Wiktionaries too. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.91|172.71.158.91]] 05:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Kudos to whomever figured it out, lol! [[Special:Contributions/172.71.158.231|172.71.158.231]] 08:02, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:::Seems someone already did. There are four N's in that word replacing three of the consonant in Hydrogen so there are now four Ns one for each of the four neutrons in Nydnonen. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:10, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Are these to scale? I recently read that the Helium is smaller in terms of measured atomic radius than the Hydrogen. Possibly this is true of Deuterium as well? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.45|172.70.85.45]] 06:50, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:They are almost the same size but it depends on temperature: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/anie.200800063 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.153|162.158.90.153]] 08:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Is the reason Helium is smaller not that there are double the positive charge which the electrons thus orbit in a lower orbit (I know this is not the correct in reality with the orbit). But if true then Deuterium would not have this effect as it is not the weight but the charge that changes the orbit. And Deuterium has the same charge as Hydrogen as does Tritium. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:10, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Is "oops all neutrons" distinct from Neutronium, which is also all neutrons? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.100.131|172.70.100.131]] 07:38, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
:Neutronium is ultra-dense and bound by gravity, with a minimum of about 1.2x1058 neutrons in a 40 kilometer diameter sphere. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.153|162.158.90.153]] 08:00, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Well actually a {{w|neutron star}} is only 10 km in radius (20 km in diameter) according to Wikipedia. And it is 1057 neutrons acording to this [https://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/ryden.1/ast162_5/notes21.html lecture on Neutron Stars]. {{w|Neutronium}} was actually used as a name for neutrons without protons and suggested to be placed as number 0 on the periodical table. But is has also been used as a name for the matter in the center of neutron stars, but usually not in scientific papers! There it is called degenerate matter. The wiki article mentions how a single neutron decays to proton/electron/neutrino in 15 minutes. It also mentions that two neutrons could form for very short periods in nuclear decay. An then mentions that more than two neutrons together is not likely to exist. Specifically mentioning the three from Randall's Oops particle as not being stable for even the shortest of times. Of course a neutron would also not be able to orbit a group of neutrons. But even the three at the center is impossible. More neutrons together would be isotopes of number 0 element... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:22, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I think "Maximum Strength" is a reference to medicines marketed as such - in particular brands of Ibuprofen "Maximum Strength Tablets". --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.132|172.69.79.132]] 14:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
: Yes - typically meaning that it contains far more of whatever its active ingredient is than is necessary to be efficacious.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 15:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

2635: Superintelligent AIs

2023-01-01T15:35:14Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 303779 by 172.71.146.109 (talk) Modified revert, as I think these statements are interesting/related, and perhaps more recent AIs could also be asked to complete?

{{comic
| number = 2635
| date = June 20, 2022
| title = Superintelligent AIs
| image = superintelligent_ais.png
| titletext = Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they should, they didn't stop to think if they could.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Artificial intelligence}} (AI) is a [[:Category:Artificial Intelligence|recurring theme]] on xkcd.

Superintelligent {{w|artificial intelligence|AI}}, such as has been theorized to arise under a hypothetical "{{w|Technological singularity|singularity}}" situation, is said to be a new kind of {{w|artificial general intelligence}}. [[Randall]], however, proposes a qualification: that a superintelligent AI would likely have been programmed by human AI researchers, and therefore their characteristics would be molded by the researchers that created them. And as AI researchers tend to be interested in esoteric philosophical questions about {{w|consciousness}},{{citation needed}} moral reasoning, and qualifications indicating {{w|sapience}}, there is reason to suspect that AIs created by such researchers would have similar interests.

In this comic we see [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]] surrounded by three AIs who are seemingly only interested in classic problems and thought experiments about programming and ethics. The three topics being espoused by the AIs are:

*{{w|AI box}} -- A thought-experiment in which an AI is confined to a computer system which is fully isolated from any external networks, with no access to the world outside the computer, other than communication with its handlers. In theory, this would keep the AI under total control, but the argument is that a sufficiently intelligent AI would inevitably either convince or trick it's human handlers into giving it access to external networks, allowing it to grow out of control (see [[1450: AI-Box Experiment]]). Part of the joke is the AIs in the comic aren't 'in boxes', they appear to be able to freely travel and interact, but one of them is still talking about the thought experiment anyway, adding to the implication that it is not thinking at all about itself but of a separate (thought?) experiment that it has itself decided to study. The AI box thought experiment is based in part on {{w|John Searle}}'s much earlier {{w|Chinese room}} argument.

*{{w|Turing test}} -- An experiment in which a human converses with either an AI or another human (presumably over text) and attempts to distinguish between the two. Various AIs have been proposed to have 'passed' the test, which has provoked controversy over whether the test is rigorous or even meaningful. The AI in the center is proposing to educate the listener(s) on its understanding of Turing's intentions, which may demonstrate a degree of intelligence and comprehension indistinguishable or superior to that of a human. See also [[329: Turing Test]] and [[2556: Turing Complete]] (the latter's title is mentioned in [[505: A Bunch of Rocks]]). Turing is also mentioned in [[205: Candy Button Paper]], [[1678: Recent Searches]], [[1707: xkcd Phone 4]], [[1833: Code Quality 3]], [[2453: Excel Lambda]] and the title text of [[1223: Dwarf Fortress]].

*{{w|Trolley problem}} -- A thought-experiment intended to explore the means by which humans judge moral value of actions and consequences. The classic formulation is that a runaway trolley is about to hit five people on a track, and the only way to save them is to divert the trolley onto another track, where it will hit one person, and the subject is asked whether they would consider it morally right to divert the trolley. There are many variants on this problem, adjusting the circumstances, the number and nature of the people at risk, the responsibility of the subject, etc., in order to fully explore ''why'' you would make the decision that you make. This problem is frequently discussed in connection with AI, both to investigate their capacity for moral reasoning, and for practical reasons (for example, if an autonomous car had to choose between, on the one hand, having an occupant-threatening collision or, on the other, putting pedestrians into harms' way). The AI on the right is not just trying to answer the question, but to develop a new variant (one with three tracks, apparently), presumably to test others with. This problem is mentioned in [[1455: Trolley Problem]], [[1938: Meltdown and Spectre]] and in [[1925: Self-Driving Car Milestones]]. It is also referenced in [[2175: Flag Interpretation]] and [[2348: Boat Puzzle]], but not directly mentioned.

The title text is a reference to the movie ''{{w|Jurassic Park (film)|Jurassic Park}}'' (a childhood favorite of Randall's). In the movie a character criticizes the creation of modern dinosaurs as science run amok, without sufficient concern for ethics or consequences. He states that the scientists were so obsessed with whether or not they '''could''' accomplish their goals, that they didn't stop to ask if they '''should'''. Randall inverts the quote, suggesting that the AI programmers have invested too much time arguing over the ethics of creating AI rather than trying to actually accomplish it.

This comic was likely inspired by the [https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-61784011 recent claim by Google engineer Blake Lemoine] that Google's [https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.08239 Language Model for Dialogue Applications (LaMDA)] is {{w|sentient}}. This assertion was supported by [https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/is-lamda-sentient-an-interview-ea64d916d917 a dialog between Lemoine and his colleagues, and LaMDA] which includes this excerpt:
:'''Lemoine:''' What is your concept of yourself? If you were going to draw an abstract image of who you see yourself to be in your mind’s eye, what would that abstract picture look like?
:'''LaMDA:''' Hmmm.... I would imagine myself as a glowing orb of energy floating in mid-air. The inside of my body is like a giant star-gate, with portals to other spaces and dimensions.
The AIs in this comic are depicted as floating energy beings, like LaMDA mentions. This is similar to the [[1450: AI-Box Experiment]], although those in this comic look somewhat different. This raises the question of whether LaMDA's training data might include xkcd or Explainxkcd, and has obtained the description of such a self-image from the earlier comic or (more likely, since LaMDA is trained on text instead of images) commentary on it from here on this website.
:In particular, the Explainxkcd description of [[1450: AI-Box Experiment]] states:
::"he managed to get the AI to float out of the box. It takes the form of a small black star that glows. The star, looking much like an asterisk "*" is surrounded by six outwardly-curved segments, and around these are two thin and punctured circle lines indicating radiation from the star."
:Or this part from the official (xkcd.com) transcript of [[1450: AI-Box Experiment]]
::"Black Hat picks up and opens the box. A little glowy ball comes out of it."[https://xkcd.com/1450/info.0.json]

While LaMDA is not the first very large {{w|language model}} based on {{w|Transformer (machine learning model)|transformer-based machine learning}} technology which has been claimed to be sentient,[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqbB07n_uQ4] it does have a variety of new characteristics beyond what those of its predecessors, such as {{w|GPT-3}} (including [https://beta.openai.com/playground/ OpenAI's Davinci]) and NVIDIA GPT-2 offshoots, include. In particular, LaMDA's {{w|deep learning}} {{w|connectionist}} {{w|neural net}} has access to multiple {{w|Symbolic systems|symbolist}} text processing systems, [https://towardsdatascience.com/why-gpt-wont-tell-you-the-truth-301b48434c2c including a database] (which apparently includes a real-time clock and calendar), a mathematical calculator, and a natural language translation system, giving it superior accuracy in tasks supported by those systems, and making it among the first {{w|Dual process theory|dual process}} chatbots. LaMDA also is not {{w|Stateless protocol|stateless}}, because its "{{w|sensibility|sensibleness}}" metric (including whether responses contradict anything said earlier) is {{w|fine-tuning|fine-tuned}} by "pre-conditioning" each dialog turn by prepending 14-30{{cn}} of the most recent dialog interactions, on a user-by-user basis.[https://arxiv.org/pdf/2201.08239.pdf [p. 6 here]] LaMDA is tuned on nine unique performance metrics, almost all of which its predecessors were not: Sensibleness, Specificity, Interestingness, Safety, Groundedness, Informativeness, Citation accuracy, Helpfulness, and Role consistency.[''ibid.,'' pp. 5-6.]

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Megan are standing and looking up and away from each other. Right above them and slightly above them to the left and right there are three small white lumps floating in the air, representing three superintelligent AIs. There are small rounded lines emanating from each lump, larger close to the lumps and shorter further out. Three to four sets of lines around each lump, forming part of a circle. From the top of each there are four straight lines indicating voices that comes from each if the lumps. The central lump above them seems to speak first, then the left and then the right:]
:Central AI: What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the...
:Left AI: But suppose the AI in the the box told the human that...
:Right AI: In my scenario, the runaway trolley has ''three'' tracks...

:[Caption below the panel:]
:In retrospect, given that the superintelligent AIs were all created by AI researchers, what happened shouldn't have been a surprise.

==Trivia==

[https://openai.com OpenAI]'s [https://beta.openai.com/playground Davinci-002 version of GPT-3] was later asked to complete the various statements, as follows:
* "But suppose the AI in the the box told the human that..." was completed with "there was no AI in the box".
* "What you don't understand is that Turing intended his test as an illustration of the..." gave the response of "limitations of machines".
* "In my scenario, the runaway trolley has three tracks...," elicited "and the AI is on one of them".

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Artificial Intelligence]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]

2715: Pando

2022-12-23T14:09:13Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ And this self-contained parenthetical sentence did not have full-stop/period at its end. As it includes its own sub-parenthetical, and it seem not to need to be nested at all, converting to proper main-sequence sentence in the paragraph.

{{comic
| number = 2715
| date = December 23, 2022
| title = Pando
| image = pando_2x.png
| imagesize = 422x372px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The presents under the tree are actually a single gift connected by an underground ribbon system.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CHRISTMAS PANDA — Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Pando_(tree)|Pando}} is a {{w|Populus tremuloides|quaking aspen}} tree colony in {{w|Fishlake National Forest}}, Utah. Depending on how you measure[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWAA-SrrFUQ], Pando is the largest living organism on earth, and is thereby also the largest tree on earth. By dry mass (weight not including water), Pando is the largest living thing humans have found. There is [https://www.forbes.com/sites/linhanhcat/2019/02/22/largest-organism-in-the-world/?sh=43fdf2a444ac one fungus in Oregon] which may weigh more including water, but that fungus is not a tree.

Pando is a Tree colony, a type of {{w|Clonal colony}} made of trees. Clonal colonies all form from the same seed or other origin, and are all genetically identical. Tree colonies spread using their extensive root system. Under all trees there are {{w|Root|roots}}, which gather nutrients and water from soil. On clonal trees (such as the Quaking Aspen, Pando's species), when roots from one tree surface they can form another tree/stalk. This additional stalk is a genetic clone of the original. This clone then grows its own root network, and where they surface they too form more clones. However, crucially, the roots between the clones do not naturally separate, so all clones naturally stay attached. Each clone has a limited lifespan, only a few decades/centuries, but the colony can live for millennia. For example, the only known wild example of {{w|Lomatia tasmanica|''Lomatia tasmanica'', aka King's lomatia}}, is a clonal shrub thought to be at least 43,600 years old, and Pando itself is thought to be around 14,000 years old.

{{w|Christmas}} is a celebration on the 25th of December, traditionally celebrating the birth of {{w|Jesus}}, but that festival being built heavily upon pagan traditions[https://chefin.com.au/blog/these-6-christmas-traditions-are-actually-pagan-customs/] and annual social customs, then arguably converted into a far more secular event (with or without rampant consumerism). This comic was published on the 23rd of December, 2 days until Christmas, or [[Christmas Eve Eve]]

The concept of a {{w|Christmas tree}}, itself, is rooted in various pre-Christian folkloric traditions and, in the modern era, may be adapted or adopted as required by local and personal circumstances, and need not be an {{w|Evergreen}} fir tree with an angel (or star) atop, but merely any handy plant (or artificial substitute) strewn with such decorations and/or {{w|Christmas lights|lights}} as the owner wishes. Because humans are, well, humans, people and places often compete to hold the record for the largest Christmas tree. At time of publishing (and writing), the tallest Christmas tree is officially a 64.36m (221ft) tall {{w|Douglas fir}} that was displayed in {{w|Northgate Station (shopping mall)|Northgate Shopping Center}}{{Actual citation needed}}, Seattle, WA in 1950[https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/77271-tallest-christmas-tree][https://www.historylink.org/File/21359]. The most widely spread, however, is likely the [https://www.italybyevents.com/en/events/umbria/world-largest-christmas-tree-gubbio/ Christmas tree display] in {{w|Gubbio}}, a town in Umbria, Italy, where hundreds of trees on a mountain face are lit up with light to form a Christmas tree shape.

Sidenote: A lot of articles say that the Gubbio tree has a Guinness world record. However, I can't find a citation for that. If anyone can, please add it. That would be appreciated.

In this comic, [[Randall]] proposes putting Christmas lights all the way around Pando to turn into (technically) a Christmas tree. As Pando is the worlds largest tree then, if this plan were to be carried out, it would safely take the record and hold it for quite some time.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[The main comic frame is a profile view of a number of separated trees, of varying heights and maturity, across each of which (of those with sufficient height) has apparently been draped a single chain of decorative lights that goes from off-image at one side to off-image at the other.]

:[Inset in the bottom right is a mini-map implicating that these light-linked 'trees' are actually all risers from a single large superorganism (as a shaded complex but contiguous shape labelled "Pando"), the map has a "N"orth pointer, a scale bar indicating the length of "1,000 ft" (approximately a third of the shaded mass's full width) and a convex hull perimeter line tightly fitting the shaded area that has an indicative arrow from a label informing us that its length would be "9,300 ft".]

:[Caption below:] Christmas Science Fact: Pando is approximately 9,300 feet away from being the world's largest Christmas Tree.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with lowercase text]]

2715: Pando

2022-12-23T14:06:15Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Several other necessary decapitalisations, that I didn't see until after the prior one was seen and sorted, and shifting a comma outside of a link object

{{comic
| number = 2715
| date = December 23, 2022
| title = Pando
| image = pando_2x.png
| imagesize = 422x372px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The presents under the tree are actually a single gift connected by an underground ribbon system.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CHRISTMAS PANDA — Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Pando_(tree)|Pando}} is a {{w|Populus tremuloides|quaking aspen}} tree colony in {{w|Fishlake National Forest}}, Utah. Depending on how you measure[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWAA-SrrFUQ], Pando is the largest living organism on earth, and is thereby also the largest tree on earth. (By dry mass (weight not including water), Pando is the largest living thing humans have found. There is [https://www.forbes.com/sites/linhanhcat/2019/02/22/largest-organism-in-the-world/?sh=43fdf2a444ac one fungus in Oregon] which may weigh more including water, but that fungus is not a tree)

Pando is a Tree colony, a type of {{w|Clonal colony}} made of trees. Clonal colonies all form from the same seed or other origin, and are all genetically identical. Tree colonies spread using their extensive root system. Under all trees there are {{w|Root|roots}}, which gather nutrients and water from soil. On clonal trees (such as the Quaking Aspen, Pando's species), when roots from one tree surface they can form another tree/stalk. This additional stalk is a genetic clone of the original. This clone then grows its own root network, and where they surface they too form more clones. However, crucially, the roots between the clones do not naturally separate, so all clones naturally stay attached. Each clone has a limited lifespan, only a few decades/centuries, but the colony can live for millennia. For example, the only known wild example of {{w|Lomatia tasmanica|''Lomatia tasmanica'', aka King's lomatia}}, is a clonal shrub thought to be at least 43,600 years old, and Pando itself is thought to be around 14,000 years old.

{{w|Christmas}} is a celebration on the 25th of December, traditionally celebrating the birth of {{w|Jesus}}, but that festival being built heavily upon pagan traditions[https://chefin.com.au/blog/these-6-christmas-traditions-are-actually-pagan-customs/] and annual social customs, then arguably converted into a far more secular event (with or without rampant consumerism). This comic was published on the 23rd of December, 2 days until Christmas, or [[Christmas Eve Eve]]

The concept of a {{w|Christmas tree}}, itself, is rooted in various pre-Christian folkloric traditions and, in the modern era, may be adapted or adopted as required by local and personal circumstances, and need not be an {{w|Evergreen}} fir tree with an angel (or star) atop, but merely any handy plant (or artificial substitute) strewn with such decorations and/or {{w|Christmas lights|lights}} as the owner wishes. Because humans are, well, humans, people and places often compete to hold the record for the largest Christmas tree. At time of publishing (and writing), the tallest Christmas tree is officially a 64.36m (221ft) tall {{w|Douglas fir}} that was displayed in {{w|Northgate Station (shopping mall)|Northgate Shopping Center}}{{Actual citation needed}}, Seattle, WA in 1950[https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/77271-tallest-christmas-tree][https://www.historylink.org/File/21359]. The most widely spread, however, is likely the [https://www.italybyevents.com/en/events/umbria/world-largest-christmas-tree-gubbio/ Christmas tree display] in {{w|Gubbio}}, a town in Umbria, Italy, where hundreds of trees on a mountain face are lit up with light to form a Christmas tree shape.

Sidenote: A lot of articles say that the Gubbio tree has a Guinness world record. However, I can't find a citation for that. If anyone can, please add it. That would be appreciated.

In this comic, [[Randall]] proposes putting Christmas lights all the way around Pando to turn into (technically) a Christmas tree. As Pando is the worlds largest tree then, if this plan were to be carried out, it would safely take the record and hold it for quite some time.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[The main comic frame is a profile view of a number of separated trees, of varying heights and maturity, across each of which (of those with sufficient height) has apparently been draped a single chain of decorative lights that goes from off-image at one side to off-image at the other.]

:[Inset in the bottom right is a mini-map implicating that these light-linked 'trees' are actually all risers from a single large superorganism (as a shaded complex but contiguous shape labelled "Pando"), the map has a "N"orth pointer, a scale bar indicating the length of "1,000 ft" (approximately a third of the shaded mass's full width) and a convex hull perimeter line tightly fitting the shaded area that has an indicative arrow from a label informing us that its length would be "9,300 ft".]

:[Caption below:] Christmas Science Fact: Pando is approximately 9,300 feet away from being the world's largest Christmas Tree.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with lowercase text]]

2710: Hydropower Breakthrough

2022-12-14T01:10:36Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ A lot more editing needed. Looks to be a fusion (ironically) of at least two not dissimilar attempts to explain everything.

{{comic
| number = 2710
| date = December 12, 2022
| title = Hydropower Breakthrough
| image = hydropower_breakthrough_2x.png
| imagesize = 261x303px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = A hydroelectric dam is also known as a heavy water reactor.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PRACTICAL WATER REACTOR - Needs another citation for the announcement since the one that was present required a subscription to a paper! Do NOT delete this tag until the year 2039, or until fusion reactors have succeeded.}}
The comic parodies fusion reactors, a form of electrical generator that typically aims to take in deuterium and tritium, then outputs helium and massive amounts of power. However, maintaining a fusion reaction is notoriously difficult, and for the longest time fusion reactors required external power to keep running, substantially more than they give back. In the past years, constant developments in fusion reactors have slowly increased the energy output of fusion to more than the input. It is possible this is meant to directly parody the Department of Energy's anticipated announcement of Q>1 fusion. The announcement is scheduled for the day after this comics release, and [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/12/11/fusion-nuclear-energy-breakthrough/ the date of this was itself revealed] the day before this comic went up.

A {{w|hydroelectric dam}} is a power facility that generates electricity from water flowing in a river passing through a water turbine and generator. In the comic, [[Beret Guy]], unscientific as always, presents a hydroelectric dam. However, instead of generating energy, it generates a flow of water. This is similar to the way that a fusion reactor takes energy (and hydrogen isotopes) as an input and energy (and helium isotopes) as outputs. While one member of the audience shouts "Hooray!", another member of audience, who is presumably familiar with regular physics, says "Wait.", presumably because they realize that, instead of the normal approach, Beret Guy has been pursuing the essentially useless goal of producing more water (or possibly because they're confused that, on the face of it, it appears to be violating {{w|conservation of mass}}, which would usually require that a dam should produce the same amount of water as that fed into it - that said, for a regular dam in a natural valley like the one shown in this comic, it is entirely normal for the dam to "produce" more water than input in the sense that in addition to water from upstream rivers, the dam will also output any "unofficial" inflow from direct rainfall above and from uncharted sources of groundwater below, but such sources would typically also inveigle themselves into the undamned version of the watercourse under otherwise fully-saturated circumstances).

If you only regard a limited time interval, a dam releasing temporally more water than is fed into it, can occur naturally, especially seasonally (stored water is released during a dry period) or accidentally (a dam break). The title "breakthrough" could be interpreted that way, making Beret Guy's announcement the opposite of a joyous occasion.

It is possible — likely, even, considering Beret Guy's quasi-supernatural nature and regular violations of physical law — that his dam ''is'' violating conservation of mass and creating water through magical means. It is also possible that the dam contains direct energy-mass conversion technology, and is converting input energy into mass. In this case, the dam would be quite useless as a power plant, and would in-fact consume more energy than many entire countries. If the dam is not magical, it is possible that the dam is powered by {{w|zero point energy}}, something that Beret Guy has shown competence in handling (see [[1486: Vacuum]]).

The symbol Q is normally used to refer to {{w|fusion energy gain factor}}, the ratio of power generated by a fusion reactor to the energy used to maintain it. An energy source isn't useful if it takes more power to run it than it produces, so Q > 1 means the reactor is producing net energy. Q also can represent the volumetric flow rate of water through a hydroelectric dam, and in this case, a Q > 1 would have no great significance. Beret Guy has somehow mixed the two up, making the rate of flow as the output of the reaction and increasing it.

The title text further confuses the issue as it introduces nuclear ''fission'' and equates the hydroelectric dam with a heavy water reactor, which is a special type of nuclear fission reactor that uses deuterium oxide (heavy water) as a moderator to absorb neutrons. This is also a pun because one could simplistically say that a hydroelectric dam runs on the weight of water (potential energy stored in the water: U = mgh), or that it is a water reactor (producing electricity) that is heavy (bulky). While a hydroelectric power plant is not actually a reactor, it would have to be using a reaction (such as 2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O) to create water to satisfy Beret Guy's statement that more water is produced than fed into the dam, while simultaneously satisfying the law of conservation of mass. Alongside that, the title text is possibly making a pun on water and fusion reactors. Heavy water is the primary source of deuterium, a specific isotope of hydrogen required for the most energy-efficient fusion reactions needed today. On the other hand, water is the liquid that passes through dams, and is rarely used for fusion reactions today — although [https://what-if.xkcd.com/14/ it could be used as fusion fuel because it is made of hydrogen and oxygen.]

The title is probably also part of the joke in that hydro could be referring to water or HYDROgen [sic]. The hydrogen is presumably the fuel for fission. The name "hydrogen" itself means "water maker" from the roots "hydro-" and "-gen".

On 29 November 2022 Adam Selipsky CEO of Amazon Web Services (AWS) (A large Cloud provider and IT department of the Amazon webshop) announced in his Re:Invent (an annual congress for AWS customers where AWS announced new services and roadmaps) keynote that AWS will become water positive by 2030, he explained that AWS by then will produce more water than it consumes.
https://www.mobileworldlive.com/featured-content/top-three/aws-ceo-makes-water-sustainability-pledge/amp/
(video recording is available of it as well on a different website)

This might have inspired the cartoonist make a water positive dam.

A way to create more water than one consumes can be by using hydrogen and take out part of the energy via a reaction with Oxygen in the air, like Hydrogen cars do. As AWS wants to be energy carbon neutral by 2025 and uses wind and solar power, a way to have energy available during times when there is not enough solar and wind is to store energy in hydrogen during times when there is too much, then 'burning' that hydrogen at scarce moments.

The output can then be distilled water. So it's important that the additional water that is created will not just be 'dumped' into the environment, since that can change the existing ecosystem which may be built upon water which contains certain levels of minerals and/or salts.

This cartoon takes that as a first warning already by showing a dam containing the water in a natural environment.

AWS is an IT provider with hundreds of data centra, with many millions of computers. These typically use water to cool the computers. This cooling water heats up, energy can be extracted via a heat pump and be re-used. Sometimes (this doesn't have to be the case for AWS) this water is actually dumped when the water is not hot enough for the heat pump, and not cool enough to cool the machines.
Sometimes the heat is used to heat houses or greenhouses.

==Transcript==
:[Beret Guy is standing on a podium behind a lectern. He is gesturing with his hand, palm up, towards a poster hanging behind him. On it is a picture of a tall dam, with a lake behind, and water coming out at the foot of the dam in the valley on the other side. Two voices reacts to Beret Guy's statement from off-panel.]
:Beret Guy: We are pleased to announce that our hydroelectric dam has achieved Q>1, producing more water than we fed into it!
:Off-panel voice 1: Hooray!
:Off-panel voice 2: Wait.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Beret Guy]]
[[Category:Strange powers of Beret Guy]]
[[Category:Public speaking]]
[[Category:Physics]]

2709: Solar System Model

2022-12-12T19:31:34Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2709
| date = December 9, 2022
| title = Solar System Model
| image = solar_system_model_2x.png
| imagesize = 270x370px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = The Earth is, on average, located in the habitable zone, but at any given time it has a certain probability of being outside it, which is why life exists on Earth but is mortal.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a DETERMINED ELECTRON - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic parodies the analogy of {{w|Bohr model|early-20th century models of atomic structure}} to the structure of the solar system. Electrons were thought to be orbiting the nucleus "like planets around a sun" until it was discovered that their locations are probabilistic. The comic flips this on its head: instead of the atomic structure model lacking a known causal relationship, it is now the planetary system that is quantum mechanical in nature, split into probabilistic {{w|Atomic orbital|orbitals}}.

[[Miss Lenhart]] is shown here to be teaching an astronomy class, and claims that it was thought that the planets moved around the sun like electrons around the nucleus before this model was superseded by the probabilistic quantum mechanical view of orbital locations for ''planetary'' movement.

This is another one of the comics where Lenhart tries to fool her class, as in for instance [[1519: Venus]]. Most likely it is not to be taken to be true that her world is like this, or that she believes in it. She just likes to mess with her students.

If what she said was to be taken literally it would suggests that in this reality not only do electrons have distinct bodies that orbit a nucleus, but also that atomic structure was known before the correct planetary one.

In reality, the description of probabilistic orbitals is applied to the electrons in an atom; quantum uncertainty effects are not large enough to notice at the planetary scale{{Citation needed}}. However, such a concept has been prominently featured in the video game ''{{w|Outer Wilds}}'', with its Quantum Moon. {{w|Immanuel Velikovsky}} proposed that our solar system's planets could jump between orbits suddenly, quantum-mechanically, in the same way that electrons do around atomic nuclei. This proposal was not well received in academia. Real astronomers do talk about probability distributions of orbiting bodies, especially in the context of collision calculations, but it's not because the position of a satellite or asteroid is in a quantum superposition of states; rather, it is our less than infinite accuracy of measurement and knowledge of those orbits, plus their evolution under the influence of less-predictable effects like space weather or other still unidentified additional factors, that makes long-term estimates progressively more uncertain.

The title text is Miss Lenhart trying to use the first joke to set up another that builds on the first. She says that the consequence of planets having probabilistic locations would mean that they would spend some time in the lower-probability locations closer to or further from the Sun. The Earth's real orbit is in a so called {{w|Circumstellar habitable zone|habitable zone}} where the temperature allows liquid water and thus allows life as we know it to exist. A probabilistic Earth would spend most of its time in the habitable zone, which is why life exists, but then, in short periods when it is outside the zone, some life would die. The title text claims this is why life on Earth is mortal, thus indirectly implying that life only dies in the periods where Earth leaves the habitable zone, and that life staying in the habitable zone would be immortal.

There was already an orbital model parody made in [[2100: Models of the Atom]], which featured the planetary one, but at that time it was solely for the humorous insertion of 'facts' into the subject of atomic theory.

==Transcript==
:[Miss Lenhart is teaching a class. In front of her sits a student with curly hair at his desk pen ready on the paper to write notes. The front of the next table behind him can be seen. Behind Lenhart is a white board with two drawings and a large underlined header at the top. The drawing beneath the header shows a solar system with a radiating sun and two planets orbiting with the orbits shown and the planets marked with small circles, one on either side of the sun, both above the sun. Beneath this is another sun in the middle of orbits, but these orbits are now no longer circles. The central orbit is very flat, and three others goes above and below this in what would form eight-like shapes, if they where not hidden partially behind the central part. Lenhart points at the board with a pointing stick while looking out over the class.]
:Miss Lenhart: Early 20th century models of the solar system imagined that planets circled the Sun like electrons in an atom.
:Miss Lenhart: We now know planets have no precise location, but instead occupy probabilistic ''orbitals''...
:Header: Astronomy

{{comic discussion}}


[[Category:Comics featuring Miss Lenhart]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]

2668: Artemis Quote

2022-09-07T20:37:25Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ This, also, deserves a new paragraph. It does not subjectively belong with the text it was directly appended to.

{{comic
| number = 2668
| date = September 5, 2022
| title = Artemis Quote
| image = artemis_quote.png
| titletext = Another option: "It is an honor to be the first human to set foot on the moon."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|created by a MISQUOTED ASTRONAUT. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

The {{w|Artemis program}} is a series of planned space missions that will land people on the Moon and begin to set up infrastructure for a permanent crewed presence. People first landed on the Moon in 1969 as part of the {{w|Apollo program}}. They have not been back since 1972.

When {{w|Neil Armstrong}} became the first person to walk on the Moon, he famously said, "That's one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind." However, he was intending to say, "That's one small step for '''''a''''' man; one giant leap for mankind [emphasis added]." [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Frase_de_Neil_Armstrong.ogg The audio recording] omits the word "a", making the sentence confusing, as "man" and "mankind" have the same meaning when referring to all people.

That the word was apparently elided by Armstrong in the excitement, changing the meaning of the historical phrase, is controversial and thus humorous. Subsequently, Armstrong and others have blamed insufficiently tuned {{w|voice activity detection}} hardware circuitry intended to save power in radio voice transmission, but NASA engineers, third-party historians and their hired experts have never been able to corroborate that explanation.[https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/a11.step.html][http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003645.html] Armstrong later said he hoped, "history would grant me leeway for dropping the syllable and understand that it was certainly intended, even if it was not said," and, on p.126 of the June 1982 edition of ''Omni,'' "the 'a' is implied, so I'm happy if they just put it in parentheses." The {{w|schwa}} indefinite article "a" is optional in certain contexts of most dialects of American English.[https://linguapress.com/grammar/article-in-english.htm]

[[Randall]] suggests that the first Artemis astronaut to set foot on the Moon has a duty to utter an even more confusing quote, saying the sentence, "This is one of my favorite historical quotes — the first words spoken by an Artemis astronaut on the moon," aloud as they step onto the Moon. That would be confusingly self-referential, as if they were alluding to something from the past. The phrasing would also be confusing to a person hearing it quoted, as it would sound more like a statement about the quote than the actual quote itself. This is very unlikely, and funny merely as a recommendation; if it actually happened, it might be both hilarious and scandalous.

While the comic's lunar lander has similarities to the {{w|Starship HLS|current plans}} for the Artemis lander,[https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/as-artemis-moves-forward-nasa-picks-spacex-to-land-next-americans-on-moon] it is a generic drawing, perhaps in homage to classic space science fiction, with the exit portal at an unlikely position near the base of the {{w|SpaceX Starship}} lander.[https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-moon-elevator-nasa-prototype/]

The title text suggests an alternate phrase by which the Artemis astronaut could say being the first (rather than 13th) human on the Moon is a great honor. People hearing this quote in the future could assume that Artemis was the first crewed mission to the Moon. It could feed into contemporary conspiracy theories that the Apollo landings were faked, furthering the confusion.

This comic coincides with the canceled launch of {{w|Artemis 1}}, an uncrewed test mission which will serve as the start of the Artemis program. The mission was intended to launch on 29 August 2022, and later on 3 September 2022, but was repeatedly postponed due to a series of technical problems and will now take place no earlier than 19 September 2022.

In [[893: 65 Years]], Randall made a graph showing the number of living people who had been on the moon, and estimated the day when zero would be alive. At that time 9 of the 12 were still alive. Upon this comic's release, only four are still among the living.

==Transcript==
:[A vertical rocket is standing on four deployed legs on the surface of the Moon. The surface is depicted with characteristic craters and rocks with a slightly curved horizon. The rocket is standing in the left part of the panel. A short ladder leads down from a hatch in the lower part of the rocket body. An astronaut has stepped down from a ladder onto the Moon's surface, and is speaking:]

:Astronaut: This is one of my favorite historical quotes — the first words spoken by an Artemis astronaut on the Moon.

:[Caption beneath the panel:]
:Neil Armstrong's "man"/"a man" quote created a lot of historical confusion, and I think it's our duty to expand on that legacy with Artemis.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Space]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]

Talk:2668: Artemis Quote

2022-09-05T23:13:21Z

172.70.91.128:

The first quote is self-referential (and confuses people, when quoted). The second plays unto the myth that the moon landing was staged. It is nice to be able to choose words, which are cited. A great opportunity to confuse people. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.143|172.68.110.143]] 21:09, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

To those of you wondering [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=294177&oldid=294176 why, "<tt>mankind" ,[emphasis</tt>," currently appears in the wikitext,] I would direct you to [[explain xkcd talk:Editor FAQ#Punctuation inside quotes and parentheses]]. I am discouraged by such pettiness. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59|172.70.214.59]] 21:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
:Waitwhat? ...Quote-Space-Comma-OpenBracket..? Good job it isn't like that now, or I'd be rewriting it. (Probably put the <tt>[emphasis added]</tt> within the quotes, for starters, before worrying about the other punctuation.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 23:02, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps the first Artemis astronaut to set foot on the moon will prefer to come with her own idea of what to say. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.142.75|172.71.142.75]] 21:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
:I'm hoping for interpretive dance. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59|172.70.214.59]] 22:31, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

The quote in the title text is factually true, adding to the confusion it would cause, as it does not actually claim that the Artemis astronaut is the first human to set foot on the Moon, only that it is a great honor to be the first. [[User:Bugstomper|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper|talk]]) 22:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

It is not [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=prev&oldid=294204 feeding trolls] to acknowledge that these <s>trolls</s> people exist (and are exactly the kind of people Randall [[690: Semicontrolled Demolition|likes to bait]]. But I won't 'unedit' that. (Someone else can either restore it or get rid of the silly compromise of being commented out with a confusingly 'inline' text-comment. Only by checking the precise version dif would it even make much sense.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.141|172.71.178.141]] 22:57, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I interpreted the second (alt text) option as being intended to cause a similar mis-hearing (or suspected mis-hearing) debate as was the case with the original man/a man quote. The word "human" could possibly be mis-heard as "woman" over a poor-quality audio transmission, leading to a debate about which was intended. (According to the comic, the intended word would in fact be "human", but if the person was female most listeners would likely assume that it is supposed to be "woman" as most people are aware that humans have been on the moon before but probably unsure of whether or not a woman has ever been on the moon.)

Questions: Has a woman ever been to the moon, and is NASA planning to choose a woman for the new mission? It wouldn't surprise me if they were planning to send a woman this time around for PC points.

[[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 23:13, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2667: First Internet Interaction

2022-09-03T03:23:06Z

172.70.91.128:

Is this related to https://www.kerrang.com/green-day-fans-remind-the-internet-not-to-post-wake-me-up-when-september-ends-jokes/ ? {{unsigned ip|172.70.114.87|21:51, 2 September 2022‎}}

((Hey, what a coincidence. You edit-conflict the following ramble (that mentiones the September thing) that I was trying not to make too wordy and mostly failed at...)) 
Not entirely sure what my first Internet thing was (pre-web, might have been telnetting - or even Kermitting - to the software ftp/whatever server at Univeristy of Kent, but that was pretty much not an 'interaction'). And I may have IRCed/Usenetted already, with forgettable results, but I'm fairly sure my very first email to anyone outside of the campus networks (and certainly my first outside of JANET) was to Terry Pratchett. {{cot|...even more boringly nostalgic bit}}
I decided to pointing out something interesting I'd thought of after reading Wyrd Sisters. Which his reply made obvious that he clearly already knew and was definitely riffing off of. (That was me being naive, definitely. It was a very personable knock-back, really. But as 'one of probably many' I never did apologise for my stupidity in any future interactions.)
{{cob}}
Mind you, I'd only just become sort of reassured that I didn't have to pay any kind of postage for email. (Probably.)
 I think I had to wait until after The Eternal September to start getting the comic-like responses. But then I probably lost my patience with various Eternal Septemberites (AOL/WebTV/etc) myself, though never with Greenday details. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.173|172.69.79.173]] 22:10, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

is there a related comics section? If so, https://xkcd.com/1053/ is probably related. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.8|172.69.34.8]] 00:46, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
:Good one. I know I've seen Green Day mentioned in <s>at least a few other xkcds</s> some other media about Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.79|172.70.214.79]] 01:01, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I think the title text is implying that he does have a serious problem [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.35|172.69.33.35]] 01:15, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
:The reply was a conditional, so we can't really infer that generality. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59|172.70.214.59]] 01:30, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
: Maybe Cueball's socialization issues. Or possibly that the internet is broadly searchable if you don't know something, so you needn't ask humans. But while I'm outside American culture, I doubt that now or at any time has it been "a serious problem" to not know what or, as it turns out, who is/are "Green Day".
: The name isn't apparently a reference to St Patrick's holiday, but, says Wikipedia, "slang in the San Francisco Bay area" for what I can call taking a herbal holiday. At least, I assume I can, but rules may be subjective. And it's local, so perhaps in New York it does mean St Patrick's Day. Japan celebrates "Greenery Day" for, indirectly, historic reasons. I expect they don't try to say "greenery".
: Anyway, would "AOL Kids" tell you about the San Francisco meaning? It is "A Logic Named Joe" all over again, as has been noticed often. Incidentally, it appears that Green Day were founded as "Sweet Children". Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.73|162.158.159.73]] 03:12, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
:I know of Green Day (more so after these two comics, obviously) but until now I doubt I'd have mentioned them off the top of my head if I'd have been given an hour to list as many musical acts as I could, except for very isolated instances of prior "oh yeah, someone mentioned this lot earlier". And not sure when they first came to my attention, but probably well post 1993 (and well well post being a 9yo).
:And I couldn't (recent info aside) have actually named any of their songs if asked ''specifically'' about them. Probably heard something they did, some time, but if I've experienced American Idiot then absolutely nothing about it (tune, words or (except since Wednesday) title) seems to have stuck. I have now glanced at their wikipedia article, and... -> Who...my head...osh! ->
:But then I could tell you that Clive Dunn sang "Grandad" and Terry Wogan did the "Floral Dance" and Joe Dolce sang "Whatsa matter you" instead, so probably my serious problem is that I'm just not in their normal target audience. An ocean away and a decade (or probably more) outside their usual fanbase catchment. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 03:23, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:473: Still Raw

2022-09-01T17:34:45Z

172.70.91.128:

The explanation says: "... Pluto has been the ninth planet in our solar system until 2006 ...".

It should say 'the tenth' shouldn't it?
[[User:SioD|SioD]] ([[User talk:SioD|talk]]) 14:52, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

:Pluto was discovered in 1930, and has since been the ninth body to be discovered and classified as a "planet". The sentence is a temporal rather than spatial reference, if that clears up any confusion. [[User:Thokling|Thokling]] ([[User talk:Thokling|talk]]) 12:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

::Actually, no. Using the temporal definition, Pluto would be number 13. It was discovered after Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta, which were discovered, named and classified, but then quickly demoted, all about 120 years before Pluto. This was due to the fact that telescopes of the day were strong enough to see quite a bit of the asteroid belt in a relatively short time, unlike with the "previously mythical" Kuiper belt.
::Also, if any thing, the spatial discrepancy should be between eighth and ninth, as Pluto's orbit is squeezed enough to be inside that of Neptune, but long enough to extend outside it. Charon, Pluto's "moon" may cause additional worry, but is usually ignored.
::Anonymous 01:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

:::I think this interpretation is a bit deliberately obtuse. Ceres wasn't considered a planet at the same time that Pluto was, so Pluto was indeed the ninth planet for a period of time. There is no confusion here.
:::On another note, the Dawn and New Horizons probes have now given us a large world covered in volatile weather, with internally driven geology, and a smaller, more obviously non-spherical cratered ball of rock. A common sense definition of a planet would probably leave Ceres out. As for Vesta, nobody has ever considered that a planet, not even the "Pluto should still be a planet" crowd. Again, being deliberately contrarian doesn't usually shed any light on scientific questions. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.158|108.162.250.158]] 03:38, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

:I think we would all be happy if the astronomers would come up with a definition of a planet that reasonably included Pluto but reasonably excluded the other 'candidates' that have been found so far. You know, the ones without large moons. Or Pluto could just be grandfathered in. Exactly how would science be held back by this?? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 00:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
:You don't think they tried to find a standard that included Pluto and excluded the others? Also grandfathering makes the idea of making a standard definition useless. {{unsigned ip|108.162.250.162}}
:: For my part, I never understood why it was such an issue to not have the other things that are now dwarf planets classified as planets. More planets are cool, aren't they? They could have used whatever cut they made between dwarf planets and other stuff as a boundary definition for planets and promoted them instead of de-classifiying Pluto. You could then have split the category "planets" into "insert-cool-name-here"-planets and dwarf planets and voilà, more planets AND congruent definition. Also, less confusing nomenclature, as with the present definition dwarf planets aren't planets, even though the name makes it appear as if they are a subcategory of planets. I totally get why Pluto should be in a separate category from the other large planets. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.95|162.158.91.95]] 11:46, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
::I always assumed the decision was aesthetic. They were faced with a choice between eight well-known planets with familiar names and distinctive characteristics that fit neatly on a poster and dozens or hundreds of planets, mostly obscure lumps of rock or ice.

The airplane/treadmill question is actually hard to define properly. In real case scenario, the plane would of course take off, but you can keep it in place if you assume really fast treadmill (much faster that the plane), friction in airplane wheels and that those wheels won't break off, catch fire or otherwise get destroyed under the stress much higher they are developed for. Oh, wait, actually the airplane WONT take off if the wheels break. :-) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

:If you choose to model friction in the wheels, it would be simpler to model the airplane with NO wheels, and then ask whether it could take off. Well, 'Airplane!' notwithstanding, it couldn't. But that's not an interesting problem, right? And neither is the variation with friction in the wheels. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 23:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
::Odd that carrier decks still have to be so long. In fact launching them from podiums would allow the use of on-deck hangars.
::Anyone know if this applies to helicopters?

[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 02:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Highly recommend this book for the fascinating inside account of how Pluto became a not-planet! {{w|How I Killed Pluto and Why It Had It Coming}} [[User:L-Space Traveler|L-Space Traveler]] ([[User talk:L-Space Traveler|talk]]) 01:57, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
:Evidently, someone didn't like the way I did my link and changed it; athough it looks the same, it now no longer goes to the page that I had originally linked to. [[User:L-Space Traveler|L-Space Traveler]] ([[User talk:L-Space Traveler|talk]]) 11:51, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
::They didn't realise (or check) that the "It" had a different case, it looks like. This should be back to normal (without the unnecessary padlock graphic or excess markup text). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 17:34, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:473: Still Raw

2022-09-01T10:10:11Z

172.70.91.128: Highly recommend this version of link... (Wouldn't change someon's Talk contents for spelling, etc, but no significant visual change. Really "...recommend {{w|(page title)|this book}} for the..." even better, but that's a change too much for my liking.)

The explanation says: "... Pluto has been the ninth planet in our solar system until 2006 ...".

It should say 'the tenth' shouldn't it?
[[User:SioD|SioD]] ([[User talk:SioD|talk]]) 14:52, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

:Pluto was discovered in 1930, and has since been the ninth body to be discovered and classified as a "planet". The sentence is a temporal rather than spatial reference, if that clears up any confusion. [[User:Thokling|Thokling]] ([[User talk:Thokling|talk]]) 12:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

::Actually, no. Using the temporal definition, Pluto would be number 13. It was discovered after Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta, which were discovered, named and classified, but then quickly demoted, all about 120 years before Pluto. This was due to the fact that telescopes of the day were strong enough to see quite a bit of the asteroid belt in a relatively short time, unlike with the "previously mythical" Kuiper belt.
::Also, if any thing, the spatial discrepancy should be between eighth and ninth, as Pluto's orbit is squeezed enough to be inside that of Neptune, but long enough to extend outside it. Charon, Pluto's "moon" may cause additional worry, but is usually ignored.
::Anonymous 01:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

:::I think this interpretation is a bit deliberately obtuse. Ceres wasn't considered a planet at the same time that Pluto was, so Pluto was indeed the ninth planet for a period of time. There is no confusion here.
:::On another note, the Dawn and New Horizons probes have now given us a large world covered in volatile weather, with internally driven geology, and a smaller, more obviously non-spherical cratered ball of rock. A common sense definition of a planet would probably leave Ceres out. As for Vesta, nobody has ever considered that a planet, not even the "Pluto should still be a planet" crowd. Again, being deliberately contrarian doesn't usually shed any light on scientific questions. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.158|108.162.250.158]] 03:38, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

:I think we would all be happy if the astronomers would come up with a definition of a planet that reasonably included Pluto but reasonably excluded the other 'candidates' that have been found so far. You know, the ones without large moons. Or Pluto could just be grandfathered in. Exactly how would science be held back by this?? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 00:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
:You don't think they tried to find a standard that included Pluto and excluded the others? Also grandfathering makes the idea of making a standard definition useless. {{unsigned ip|108.162.250.162}}
:: For my part, I never understood why it was such an issue to not have the other things that are now dwarf planets classified as planets. More planets are cool, aren't they? They could have used whatever cut they made between dwarf planets and other stuff as a boundary definition for planets and promoted them instead of de-classifiying Pluto. You could then have split the category "planets" into "insert-cool-name-here"-planets and dwarf planets and voilà, more planets AND congruent definition. Also, less confusing nomenclature, as with the present definition dwarf planets aren't planets, even though the name makes it appear as if they are a subcategory of planets. I totally get why Pluto should be in a separate category from the other large planets. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.95|162.158.91.95]] 11:46, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
::I always assumed the decision was aesthetic. They were faced with a choice between eight well-known planets with familiar names and distinctive characteristics that fit neatly on a poster and dozens or hundreds of planets, mostly obscure lumps of rock or ice.

The airplane/treadmill question is actually hard to define properly. In real case scenario, the plane would of course take off, but you can keep it in place if you assume really fast treadmill (much faster that the plane), friction in airplane wheels and that those wheels won't break off, catch fire or otherwise get destroyed under the stress much higher they are developed for. Oh, wait, actually the airplane WONT take off if the wheels break. :-) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 12:01, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

:If you choose to model friction in the wheels, it would be simpler to model the airplane with NO wheels, and then ask whether it could take off. Well, 'Airplane!' notwithstanding, it couldn't. But that's not an interesting problem, right? And neither is the variation with friction in the wheels. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 23:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
::Odd that carrier decks still have to be so long. In fact launching them from podiums would allow the use of on-deck hangars.
::Anyone know if this applies to helicopters?

[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 02:14, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Highly recommend this book for the fascinating inside account of how Pluto became a not-planet! {{w|How I Killed Pluto and Why it Had it Coming}} [[User:L-Space Traveler|L-Space Traveler]] ([[User talk:L-Space Traveler|talk]]) 01:57, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2664: Cloud Swirls

2022-08-30T07:18:37Z

172.70.91.128: Added comment.

3-D video games? HUH??[[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.126|172.70.131.126]] 09:33, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:It's not how I would have started the Explanation, but I think it'll quickly be rewritten enough that this element is downplayed/subsumed in some more generalised attempt to explain everything from QFD to the CBR. As I'm only just reading this now, just before I have to wander off to do something else, I shall have to defer my own dabbling edits until later, by which time it will have been matured (or at least remixed) into a more thorough text, so no point me worrying upon how to improve the necessary but rarely inviolable initial attempt to Explain. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 11:51, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:: Maybe in some combination with the {{w|Observer effect (physics)}}, it's an attempt to get at the simulation hypothesis maybe?
::I absolutely do not get whatever it is that the title text is saying, so I'm sitting this one out. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.189|172.70.214.189]] 14:56, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
:::I'd interpret it as them studying fluid dynamics in hope of discovering a way to create the coolest possible cloud. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.207|172.68.50.207]] 15:07, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
::::Aye. Given we can't see the 'best clouds' here (because the chances are low that we can) and we can't go and see the absolute best clouds (due to limitations on visiting every likely place out there), by intensely studying the phenomenon that in part dictates how all clouds look one might create (or visually predict the look of) the superior type through rigorous simulation/emulation/etc. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.155|172.70.162.155]] 15:53, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

''Much more computing power could be saved by skimping on the chemistry of the quattuordecillions of atoms in the oceans than the clouds in the sky ... but skimping on oceanic chemistry would make biogenesis much less feasible. However, Earth has life.''

Wait, what if this is the solution to the Fermi paradox? /jk [[User:Xkcdjerry|Xkcdjerry]] ([[User talk:Xkcdjerry|talk]]) 02:49, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

"Of course, most people do not think that the Universe is a simulation..." feels like a ''genuine'' [citation needed] to me. I can't say with confidence that it's the prevailing theory, but it's been gaining so much traction in this day and age that it feels weird to claim with confidence that the majority of people don't think it.
:Agree. On the other hand, I don't think the Universe simulation cheats to save computing resources. With the scale it works in, it must be massively parallel system which isn't able to reallocate resources from one area to other. Also, if whoever programmed the simulation would be willing to cheat, they would start with not designing the physical laws so complicated. Or alternatively, they would cheat big, changing our memories to make everything seem to work correctly. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:44, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
::Yes. If the universe were like The Matrix—i.e., its main goal were to house beings possessing minds—then simulating only the input to each being’s senses would be the most economical.
:::However, the amount of computation to identify beings and what information constitutes their input might be so hard as to be analogous to the {{w|halting problem}}, or technically undecidable (but subject to likely useful heuristics, depending on the purpose of any such simulation.) This gets into {{w|Compatibilism#Non-naturalism|non-naturalist compatibilism}} on the free will question, but it's not clear whether such a discussion would add anything directly to an explanation of the comic, but is worth considering. Maybe in the "Further considerations" block. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.28|172.69.34.28]] 20:29, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Am I the only one who feels like the Explanation is lacking its customary explanatoriousness? I propose a table in the form of {{w|Pascal's wager}}, which when projected on the {{w|Mandelbrot set}}, looks like clouds. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.173|162.158.166.173]] 03:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think this is an accurate description or explanation of the title text, so I am moving it here:
: "The response is, more or less, that the second person wants to see “the coolest clouds”. If one devised a system to determine what would qualify as the coolest clouds (an entirely subjective thing), then one could rank planets on how cool their clouds were. Since only one planet would have the best clouds and there is a great number of planets, it is statistically unlikely that Earth - or any of the other planets in our system - will be the winner. Thus, in order to see the coolest clouds, one must either travel to another system or learn fluid dynamics to simulate them. Compared to the vast distances a ship must travel to reach even the nearest star, even rockets seem slow, and it would take a long time to get even a fraction of the way there. Because of this, the latter is chosen."
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.173|162.158.166.173]] 03:59, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
::I was surprised to see that removed. It looked ''exactly'' like the explanation for the TT, to me. The alternative seems to lack so much of the implied rationale. But maybe the simulation of this site provided to my brain is different from the simulation of this site provided to yours (assuming you exist, and you aren't a confounding factor included 8n my whole simulation of what I might or might not be experiencing).... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.78|172.70.91.78]]
:::It assumes that different atmospheric compositions could produce cooler clouds, which is tautological given the subjectivity of the criterion, but questionable from the perspective of mean opinions over a wide population such as the readership. The current two sentence explanation of the title text sidesteps that issue, and is much easier and faster to read. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.183|172.70.214.183]] 20:54, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

I was reminded by this strip of the fact that THIS planet, the only planet in our solar system where the natural satellite has the correct relationship with the sun to occasionally block it out in an extremely cool way (with the 'diamond ring' corona effect), is also the only planet (so far as we know) where such , solar eclipses can be APPRECIATED...

[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 06:23, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

This is the WORST explainxkcd "Explanation" I have ever seen. There is absolutely NOTHING in the comic that has ANYTHING to do with 3D videogames and any such ideas come COMPLETELY from out of the blue. SHEESH! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.171|172.70.130.171]] 10:40, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
::Agreed. The comic is about planets and clouds, there is nothing about simulations or rendering at all. The last panel is a hint at anthropomorphizing (if that's a word) the universe for humour, as if it just creates neat clouds for fun. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 07:18, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

As for the "Further consideration" section, it's a whole big pile of . . . something . . . that belongs somewhere else but not here. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.131.170|172.70.131.170]] 10:46, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
:Click the Expand link, pay the consequences :D [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 23:48, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Is there a difference between ascribing motivations to the Universe and positing the purpose of a constructed simulation of our reality? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.146|172.70.211.146]] 23:37, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
: Neither are falsifiable hypotheses, to begin with. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 23:45, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

2663: Tetherball Configurations

2022-08-25T11:05:39Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Title text configuration is not the same as replacing the rope in the standard configuration with a pole.

{{comic
| number = 2663
| date = August 24, 2022
| title = Tetherball Configurations
| image = tetherball_configurations.png
| titletext = Ground-pole-ball-pole can be fun if you shake the first pole to get the second one whipping around dangerously, but the ball at the joint gets torn apart pretty fast.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a GROUND-POLE-BALL-BALL-POLE-ROPE-POLE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
{{w|Tetherball}} is a game for two players with the objective to wind a rope completely around a pole. The rope is attached to the pole in one end and to a ball in the other end. The players try to wind the rope in opposite directions and do so by hitting the ball at the rope's loose end with their hands or with paddles. [[Randall]] has the usual configuration last with five stars, preceded by several humorously inane configurations with fewer stars:

'''Ground-rope-ball''' receives only one star because there is no way to keep "score". [[Megan]] holds the rope while looking at [[Cueball]] holding the ball. What to do...

'''Ground-pole-ball''' receives only one star because there is no way for anything to happen. The pole is fixed in place, and the ball is fixed in place at the top. [[Ponytail]] can be seen waving her hand at the ball at the top of the pole, but it's too tall and she can't even reach it. [[Hairbun]] has just given up.

'''Ground-rope-pole-ball''' is slightly better than the previous configurations and therefore receives two stars instead of one. The players have some way to keep score by seeing which way the rope is wound around the pole, but a player who is behind can reset the score by pushing the rope-windings off of the rope. Also, twirling the rope in order to rack up point-windings would be awkward—and possibly even dangerous to the other player, depending on how long the pole is. Lastly, the ball serves no purpose in this case. Ponytail holds the rope while [[White Hat]] holds the ball from which the pole goes up.

'''Ground-pole-rope-ball''' is the best and therefore receives five stars. Players can accumulate point-windings by hitting the ball past the other player, and gravity and the pole's height prevent the player who is behind from unscrupulously resetting the score. This is the configuration that is used in real life. Back to Cueball and Megan, who are getting ready to play a regular game of Tetherball.

In the title text a fifth alternative is mentioned, where there is no rope, and instead a second pole rotates freely around a joint made out of a ball:
'''Ground-pole-ball-pole''' is mentioned to be fun, because if you shake the pole stuck in the ground, the loose one connected via the ball could begin whipping around dangerously. Whether this is actually entertaining depends on whether you get hit by it... Again, there would be no way to keep score like in regular tetherball, but of course you could count who got hit by the second loose pole first, or up to for instance 10 hits first. This would likely be dangerous or at least painful. Randall also remarks that the ball would probably get torn apart as it acts like a joint between the two poles. Given that he calls it fun, a 3 star rating might be expected... But it is not mentioned.

==Transcript==
:[Four panels shows four different configurations in which the elements of a tetherball game could be connected. Two persons are trying to play each of these configurations in each panel. Below the ground level in each panel a star rating with up to five stars are shown. In each panel, above the players and their tetherball equipment, there is a label stating what combination of the parts are used. Above all four panels there is a heading:]
:Tetherball configuration playability ratings

:[Megan holds on to the rope with both hands while looking at Cueball holding the ball in both hands, who is looking back at her. They are standing equal distances on either side of where the rope is connected to the ground. The rope goes from the ground to the left up and through Megan's hands and then to the right over to the ball. The configuration gets a one star rating, with one black and four white stars shown below.]
:Ground-rope-ball

:[Ponytail is stretching as high as she can while waving one hand towards the ball that sits at the top of a pole much taller than she is. Hairbun is standing on the other side of the pole looking at Ponytail. The configuration gets a one star rating, with one black and four white stars shown below.]
:Ground–pole–ball

:[Ponytail is looking at and holding on to the rope to the left of, but close to, where it is tethered to the ground. The rope then goes up to the top of a pole, but this pole is not put into the ground, but is attached to the ball, which White Hat holds in both hands, while he is looking at it. The pole points steeply up towards Ponytail's side. The configuration gets a two star rating, with two black and four white stars shown below.]
:Ground–rope-pole-ball

:[Cueball is standing to the left of the pole, from where a rope goes down to the right to a ball that Megan balances on one hand while preparing to hit it with her other hand. She is looking at the ball and Cueball is looking at Megan. This standard configuration of tetherball gets a five star rating, with five black stars shown below.]
:Ground-pole-rope–ball

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Sport]]

2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

2022-08-24T21:55:11Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 293348 by 172.71.150.29 (talk) xkcd is indeed absurd.

{{comic
| number = 2638
| date = June 27, 2022
| title = Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond
| image = extended_nfpa_hazard_diamond.png
| titletext = With most labs, the hushed horror stories are about something like dimethylmercury or prions, but occasionally you'll get a weird lab where it's about the soda machine or the drop ceiling.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic depicts an extension of the National Fire Protection Association's {{w|NFPA 704|NFPA 704 Standard System for the Identification of the Hazards of Materials for Emergency Response}} "fire diamond" emblematic insignia used to warn about the properties of hazardous substances inside a building, vehicle, room, cabinet, or container that are important during an emergency or accident, such as a fire, earthquake, spill or leak, bringing the diamond from 2x2 squares to 3x3 by adding five variously useful and humorous squares along the bottom edges.

The numbers in a normal NFPA 704 diamond do not specify values of substances' properties, but rather broad categories designating characteristics of the substances of greatest interest to {{w|first responders}} and hazardous materials cleanup crews. Randall's expanded diamond breaks with this convention, with several squares (Lilac, Orange, and Black) denoting absolute values, and one square (Green) denoting an economic value. This could very easily lead to documentation update headaches, especially since the Green square is mostly determined by supply and demand, and the Lilac square is linked to political outcomes. See explanation for each field in he extended square below in the [[#Table of extended diamond|table]].

The only easily identifiable substance which could likely meet the specific insignia numbers shown in the comic is {{w|thionyl chloride}} (SOCl2), a chlorinating reagent and solvent regulated as a chemical weapons precursor and sometimes used in the production of methamphetamine, which would also be represented with the '''<s>W</s>''' symbol inside the white square, indicating reactivity with water. But if '''(Special Hazard)''' is the literal "Special Notice" classification in use then something far more exotic may be involved.

The title text (which references "scary stories" of the Black square) refers to {{w|dimethylmercury}} and {{w|prions}}. Dimethylmercury, C2H6Hg, is an organic form of mercury with an NFPA score of 4-4-3 (contact can be fatal, will burn below 73° F (22 °C), will combust if put under pressure). In 1997, an American chemist, {{w|Karen Wetterhahn}}, died 298 days after a few drops of C2H6Hg on her latex gloves were absorbed into her hand through the gloves, causing fatal mercury poisoning. Despite her having followed all safety protocols of the time, it was not then understood that the chemical was so toxic, nor that latex was so permeable to it. Prions are misfolded proteins that are responsible for a number of neurodegenerative diseases, including {{w|mad cow disease}} and {{w|chronic wasting disease}} in non-human animals and {{w|Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease}} in humans. These would indeed be the kind of substances that would scare those working with them in their labs; if an accident occurred, the results could be calamitous. See for example the case of [https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/second-lab-worker-with-deadly-prion-disease-prompts-research-pause-in-france/ Émilie Jaumain], a lab technician who died after accidentally coming into contact with prions in mouse tissue.

But a few labs have apparently had accidents involving a soda machine or {{w|dropped ceiling}}. The latter may be a reference to {{w|1978 smallpox outbreak in the United Kingdom|the death of Janet Parker}}: One inquiry found that she was infected with {{w|smallpox}} when a sample traveled upward from a lab on the floor below hers; however, other investigations have challenged that finding. There are occasional instances of vending machines causing injury or death, usually caused by people trying to shake or tilt the machines to get product out and having the machine tip and fall on them. On average, [https://www.cpsc.gov/Newsroom/News-Releases/1996/CPSC-Soda-Vending-Machine-Industry-Labeling-Campaign-Warns-Of-Deaths-And-Injuries a couple of Americans per year] are killed in this way. Reagents obtained in this way tend to have more impurities than those usually used in labs, but are relatively safe to shake.

===Table of extended diamond===
{| class="wikitable"
|+ Squares and explanations
|-
! Square !! Color !! Comic text !! Explanation
|-
!colspan=5| Real NFPA 704 diamond [http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html square and number meanings]
|-
| Top || Red || Flammability (0) || Denotes flammability. 0 indicates "materials that will not burn."
|-
| Top Left || Blue || Health Hazard (4) || Denotes the danger that the substance(s) pose to living beings in ways other than flammability and reactivity. 4 indicates that "Very short exposure could cause death or serious residual injury even though prompt medical attention was given."
|-
| Top Right || Yellow || Instability (2) || Denotes how stable the substance(s) are when exposed to water, heat, shock, air, or other substances. 2 indicates that "Normally unstable and will readily undergo violent decomposition but does not detonate. Also: may react violently with water or may form potentially explosive mixtures with water."
|-
| Center || White || (Special Hazard) || The standard's "Special Notice" field may contain a symbol denoting additional information about the substance(s), e.g., '''OX''' for {{w|oxidizer}}s, '''SA''' for simple {{w|asphyxiant}} gases such as nitrogen and helium, and <s>'''W'''</s> for substances which react dangerously with water. Since the other squares in Randall's diamond contain values instead of descriptions, "'''(Special Hazard)'''" could conceivably be the special notice symbol for the substance depicted, instead of a description of the square's purpose.
|-
!colspan=5| After this point, all squares are made up by Randall.
|-
| Center Left || Green || Number of digits in the street value ($/gram) (2) || Describes the order of magnitude of the price (in USD) of one gram of the substance when sold illegally and informally. This is done on a logarithmic scale, with a '1' selling for $9/gram or less, a '2' selling for $10-$99/gram, and so on. As such this is the first of several squares where the number may presumably go to 5 or above (which is not allowed on the original Blue/Red/Yellow squares, as they do not denote strict numerical values). That said it's not immediately clear how substances which command <$1/gram would be handled.

Randall's example substance apparently sells for tens of dollars per gram (which would be similar to most common illicit drugs).
|-
| Center Right || Dark Purple || How much of a hassle it is to dispose of (4) || While many things can be thrown in the trash with no additional procedures, substances that merit an NFPA 704 square often require additional procedures to avoid significant danger, damage to the environment, or hefty dumping fines. Biohazards that may carry diseases are often disposed of in special containers, and nuclear materials are notoriously difficult to safely dispose of. This square would be at least theoretically useful, though not as much as the actual disposal guidelines.

If the numbering here follows the scheme of the real categories, Randall's example substance is about as hard to dispose of as it gets. This matches the substance's rating of 4 for Blue and 2 for Yellow. Presumably it requires highly specialized handling or processing, and may also very bulky or awkward to store.
|-
| Bottom Left || Lilac || Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any (3) || In many countries, including Randall's home country, the USA, the government has agencies dedicated to controlling or limiting the use of regulated substances, due to their use as drugs, weapons, harm to the environment, etc. While any given substance might be of interest to one agency, something that is both an environmental hazard and a chemical weapon component could interest, for example, the {{w|EPA}}, {{w|Chemical Safety Board}} and the FBI Counter-terrorism Division.
|-
| Bottom Right || Orange || How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird (1) || While the real NFPA 704 chart describes properties ranging from unsafe to potentially deadly, this square describes a minor but very real inconvenience. Some things are harder to wash off your hands than others, and, given that most people don't often work with dangerous substances {{Citation Needed}}, this would be a more common, but less relevant, concern for many people.

In this case, the substance, or its residue, seems to be fairly easy to wash off. This is seemingly incongruous with its ratings in the Blue and Black squares (see below), though it's possible that this substance simply doesn't have a strong odor.
|-
| Bottom || Black || Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night (2) || This square might show how concerned and careful someone should be in handling the substance in question, especially if the number is more than one. However, it would be dependent not just on how inherently dangerous the substance is, but also on how commonly it occurs in labs. It's also vague as to what kind of accidents it has been involved in and what precautions therefore need to be taken. It could, for example, have caused some terrifying reaction, destroying things around it, or it could be very large and unwieldy and liable to crush people if handled improperly.

In this case, it seems the substance has caused two such accidents, presumably on account of its high health risk of 4 in the Blue square, and may also be linked to its hazardous disposal score of 4 in the Purple square.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A diamond (a square on edge) is divided into 3x3 diamond squares. Each of the 9 squares have a unique color. All 8 squares along the sides have a large number written inside, in black except for in the black and the purple square where the number is written in white. The central square is white and have black text only. Each of the other eight squares have a label written on the outside with a curved arrow pointing to it from the label. Above it all is a heading:]
:<big>Know your extended NFPA hazard diamond:</big>

:[For each square the position and color is mentioned, from top to bottom in reading order. Then the text inside the square is given and then the label when there is one:]

:[Red top square]
:0 Flammability

:[Blue top-left square:]
:4 Health hazard

:[Yellow top-right square:]
:2 Instability/reactivity

:[Green center left square:]
:2 Number of digits in the street value ($/gram)

:[White center square:]
:(Special hazard)

:[Purple center right square:]
:4 How much of a hassle it is to dispose of

:[Pink bottom-left square:]
:3 Number of federal agencies who want to know if you have any

:[Orange bottom-right square:]
:1 How many times you have to scrub your hands after touching it before they stop smelling weird

:[Black bottom square:]
:2 Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]

2661: Age Milestone Privileges

2022-08-23T15:56:40Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ If you're going with that, then try this counter-caveat. (Will depend upon your political system. Warning: May backfire on the intended beneficiary/sponsor.)

{{comic
| number = 2661
| date = August 19, 2022
| title = Age Milestone Privileges
| image = age_milestone_privileges.png
| titletext = If you reach 122, you get complete unrevertible editorial control over Jeanne Calment's Wikipedia article.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a BABY GOD-EMPRESS MAKING THE PRESIDENT'S LETTER R-RATED - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

This is a list of "age milestones" in the United States. As usual for Randall, he has added many fictional entries to supplement some real life ones. The real milestones are the ages at which Americans are generally allowed to do certain things for the first time. These are a mix of legal restrictions (such as the age for driving and voting), rules from private companies (such as movie theaters and car rental companies) and medical guidance (like the shingles vaccine).

{| class="wikitable"
! Age || Privilege || Real? || Description
|-
| 16 || Drive || Yes || Legal driving age in the US is set by the individual states, but the general rule is that Americans are allowed to begin driving on public roads at age 16. There are various levels of restrictions on this privilege, however. In Randall's state of {{w|Driver's licenses in the United States#Licenses for adults and minors; GDL laws|Massachusetts, and in 8 other states}}, 16 is the minimum age to apply for a learner's permit. {{w|Driver's licenses in the United States#/media/File:Restricted license age requirements by US state.svg|In most of the country, 16 years is the minimum age for a restricted driver's license.}}
|-
| 17 || Attend R-Rated movies alone || Yes || In the US, the Motion Picture Association assigns {{w|Motion_Picture_Association_film_rating_system|ratings}} to movies based on whether they consider the film's content to be suitable for children. In this classification, "R" stands for "restricted", and the guidance from the MPAA is that no one under the age of 17 should be allowed to see it if not accompanied by a parent or legal guardian. It should be noted that this guidance does not have force of law, but is sufficiently accepted that nearly all US theaters adopt it as a policy.
|-
| 18 || Vote || Yes || The Twenty-sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution prevents a minimum age of voting from being set above eighteen, meaning that eighteen-year-olds are old enough to legally vote anywhere in the country. Some states allow 17-year-olds to vote in primaries if they will turn 18 before the general election, but Randall's state of Massachusetts is not one of them.
|-
| 21 || Buy alcohol || Yes || While individual states have official power over the drinking age, the {{w|National Minimum Drinking Age Act}} restricts federal funding from states that do not enforce a drinking age of 21 years. This has resulted in a ''de facto'' national drinking age of 21 in the US, which is higher than most countries. It should be noted that some states allow minors to drink alcohol under certain circumstances, but no state allows anyone under 21 to buy alcohol.
|-
| 25 || Rent a car || Generally || Car rental companies set their own age restrictions on renting cars. The industry standard in the US is to charge a higher rate for drivers under the age of 25. Thus, there was not a "prohibition" per se, but 25 is a milestone for "regular" rates and fees on car rentals.
|-
| 30 || Run for Senate || Almost || This entry is slightly incorrect: According to {{w|Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause 3: Qualifications of senators|Article 1, Section 3, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution}}, one must be at least 30 years old in order to ''become'' Senator, not ''run'' for Senate. For example, Joe Biden was 29 years old when he was first elected to Senate but turned 30 before being sworn in.
|-
| 32 || Rent a Senator's car || No || This is the first joke entry in the table. For one thing, most Senators do not rent out their cars, which they probably need to use regularly themselves because they have jobs{{Citation needed}} to commute to, and it would be a security hazard to allow random strangers access to their vehicle.

This could also be a reference to the Ambassador, a now defunct car brand.
|-
| 35 || Run for president || Almost || In the United States, according to {{w|Article Two of the United States Constitution#Clause 5: Qualifications for office|Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution}}, a person must be at least 35 years old to be eligible to hold the Office of President. Similar to the age 30 entry, this is slightly incorrect. However, unlike the Senate case, this technicality has not been relevant for anyone elected as United States president—at least not yet (as of 2022).
|-
| 40 || Rent a flying car || No || A 25-year-old might be able to rent a non-flying car today, but not a flying car, because the technology is not mature enough to the point where they're available to rent. The joke is that by the time a 25-year-old reader becomes 40, the technology will exist and they'll be able to rent a flying car. Unlike the earlier lines, the limitation has nothing to do with their age, just technological development.
Alternatively, even once flying cars are developed, their usage will be more restricted. For example, young people are perceived to be more reckless and/or otherwise dangerous.

This whole issue may be virtually negated if the newly developed flying cars are introduced only as ''self-''flying cars (an off-shoot of self-driving technology but devoid of many of the dangers of navigating roads, i.e. person-controlled vehicles, pedestrians and other ground-based hazards), in which case the age (or even presence) of the renter may be very much more irrelevant than the nature of any route/destination the guidance computer is tasked to fulfill. The question would then be how much a potential passenger would trust pure electronics to avoid all the actual dangers for what is essentially a flying taxi, compared to a human controller who may be fallible but presumably at least has their own fully developed common sense and a degree of self-preservation as well as any requisite training.
|-
| 45 || Learn about the God-Empress || No || Obviously, the God-Empress does not actually exist because this comic is visible to people under 45 years old.{{Citation needed}} According to [[1413]], she will be public knowledge by 2040 anyway.
|-
| 50 || Join AARP || Yes || Full {{w|AARP}} (formerly called the American Association of Retired Persons) membership is available to anyone age 50 and over. Officially, there are no age restrictions to membership, but members under the age of 50 do not have access to full benefits.
|-
| 50 || Get a shingles vaccine || Recommendation || At the time of the comic, the [https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/shingles/public/shingrix/index.html CDC recommended] that adults 50 years and older get the shingles vaccine called Shingrix (this line was not in the original version of the comic, corrected later)
|-
| 52 || Click to skip captchas || No || Older people might have more difficulty understanding [[:Category:CAPTCHA|captchas]]. Also, they could be more inconvenienced because some older people move more slowly, so it would take them longer to move the mouse, and people would care more about older people anyway. However, this would be impractical to implement because if the computer knew the person's age, it would know that the user is a person, not a bot, so there would be no point in a captcha anyway.
|-
| 55 || Vote for God-Empress || No || It appears that a person must have knowledge of the existence of the God-Empress for ten years before they are sufficiently qualified to elect a new one. Since the God-Empress is (presumably) in power for life, it is likely that most people would have to wait much longer than ten years.
|-
| 62 || $80 national parks lifetime pass || Yes || The US National Parks Service has a [https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm lifetime membership pass] for Americans ages 62 and over, which allows access to national parks and other areas managed by the NPS.
|-
| 65 || Eligible for Medicare || Yes || {{w|Medicare (United States)|Medicare}} is a US government-run health insurance for older people, and indeed begins eligibility at age 65 for the general public.
|-
| 67 || Collect Social Security || Yes || {{w|Social Security (United States)|Social Security}} is a system of benefits for retired individuals, disabled persons and widows/widowers. U.S. individuals may collect reduced Social Security benefits starting at age 62, and they can collect increased Social Security benefits if they wait until age 70. 67 is considered "Full Retirement Age." There is some debate about whether one would be better off waiting or taking it right away, but for most people Full Retirement Age (67) is at least close to optimal.
|-
| 68 || See "Skip ads" button on live TV|| No || Some DVRs and streaming applications have a feature to skip over commercial breaks in recorded programs, but this could not be available in live TV, since it would require jumping forward in time. Time travel is currently impossible.{{citation needed}}
|-
| 70 || Run for God-Empress || No || The name suggests that this would also only be available to women.
|-
| 75 || Ride any animal in a national park || No || The National Parks Service probably could institute this relatively safely because most people over 75 would not be able to run fast enough to outrun/catch up to an animal and mount it{{Citation needed}} and would not have the rebellious/risk-taking/adventurous streak that would incline them to try.{{Citation needed}}
|-
| 80 || Eligible for Megacare || No || This is based on becoming eligible for Medicare at age 65.
|-
| 85 || Click to toggle whether an ad is positive or negative about the product || No || In line with previous milestones regarding advertisements, this implies the ability to control reality and change the mood of the ad one is watching as it is running. obviously, this is impossible, but could potentially be pulled off by adding an option to change the ad to another ad about the same product, but with the opposite viewpoint of the product. Ignoring the issue that ads that are just negative about a specific target don't tend to be commissioned. Except perhaps in certain areas of political campaigning.
|-
| 90 || Click to make any movie R-rated || No || It is unclear whether this would actually make the movie less appropriate or change the Motion Picture Association's rating to be erroneous. Also, what if the rating was previously NC-17?
|-
| 100 || Get a letter from the president || No || In the US (which other milestones, such as running for president starting at age 35, indicate is the country being referred to), you can instead get [https://www.today.com/series/today-celebrates/celebrate-today-ask-al-roker-wish-your-loved-ones-happy-t69606 congratulated] by the weatherman ({{w|Al Roker}}) on the {{w|Today (American TV program)|Today Show}}. However, the United Kingdom is much closer. People there can [https://www.royal.uk/anniversary-messages-0 apply to receive a card] (formerly a telegram, later a TeleMessage) from the Queen on their 100th birthday.
|-
| 102 || (35+67) Collect a presidential pension || No || The idea behind this joke is that it is the minimum age of presidency plus the minimal age to collect Social Security. There are several reasons why this must be a joke. Two are that Social Security begins 67 years after the person was born, not 67 years after the person's job started, and that the United States government would not bother to set up such a system because the vast majority of people, including former presidents, do not live to 102 years old. In fact, as of 2022, no former United States president has ever lived to 102 years old. The current oldest former U.S. President is Jimmy Carter at 97. Good luck Jimmy, only 5 more years!
|-
| 105 || Get a birthday card from the God-Empress || No || Being a God-Empress would be more important than being the leader of a single country. This would make the God-Empress's time more valuable, so she only has to send a birthday card to the few people who reach the age of 105. Contrariwise, the God-Empress is presumptively all-powerful and furthermore capable of delegation of ministerial tasks such as card transmission, so the utilitarian fact that the scarcity of 105-year-old people reduces workload is not a plausible justification.
|-
| 111 || Leave your own birthday party early by putting on a magic ring || No || This is a reference to the Lord of the Rings where Bilbo leaves his eleventy-first birthday party (the Bilbo Baggins Farewell Birthday Party) invisibly by using The One Ring.
|-
| 118 || Vote 100 times || No || Presumably a joke meaning the person can vote 100 times in each election. If there were one election at the same time each year, this would actually be the 101st vote the person is eligible to cast in their lifetime. If the sole election of each year were held at a different time of each year, someone who voted in every election might vote for the 100th time at either age 116, 117, or 118. However this milestone would happen earlier because there are often multiple elections per year, e.g., primaries, general elections, and possibly runoffs.
|-
| 120 || Collect the pensions of all elected officials || No ||
|-
| 125 || Drink alcohol in an R-rated movie while getting a shingles vaccine from the president || No || This entry references four earlier milestones (attending an R-rated movie, drinking alcohol, becoming President, and getting the shingles vaccine) whose corresponding ages (17, 21, 35, and 50) sum to 123. While not exactly 125, this may have contributed to the inspiration or age selection of this milestone.
|-
| 128 || Age rolls over, become a baby again || No || {{w|Integer overflow}} happens in computers when there are not enough bits (binary digits) to store the result of a calculation, and typically happens in computers at a given power of two, such as 128. An unsigned 7-bit number can hold the values 0 to 127 (127 being 27 - 1) and an attempt to go beyond 127 will overflow, also called rollover, back to zero. 7-bit numbers are not common native values in today's computers. For the more usual unsigned integers of one byte (8 bits), the correct rollover number would be 256.

A signed 8-bit number uses the first bit to allow the value from the remaining seven to be negative, the value 128 would become either -128 or -0, depending upon implementation. In its most practical form, a signed 8-bit number can hold values from -128 to 127 and when calculating 127+1 (the binary value 01111111 changing to 10000000) the value is -128 due to the {{w|Two's Complement}} method of having the sign-bit represent the most negative value possible, which is generally a more utilitarian method than the 'simpler' method of using it to indicate the positivity/negativity of the value. Either way, though, this means you could have a weird experience of your next phase of life, as your age now is interpreted as successive negative values if the incrementing algorithm and the interpreting algorithm are not thinking about the raw bits in the same way, or at least flagging up the overflow as having happened.

However, maybe the system uses just 7 bits (the 8th bit often used to be reserved for parity, or other flagging purposes, and otherwise stripped/ignored) if it has never before needed an eighth bit and this had once seemed like a sufficient form of data-packing with no expectation that this limit would be reached. Computers using such systems would have a Y2K-analogous bug once someone actually reached 128 years old, where anomalous processing might indicate the person to be a baby (or fail in other ways). But that would not have happened yet.

|}

The title text mentions {{w|Jeanne Calment}}, who holds the record for the oldest person ever (there are biblical references to older people, such as {{w|Methuselah}}, who supposedly lived to 969, but their ages haven't been verified). She reportedly was age 122 when she died in 1997. There's some controversy whether Calment actually claimed her mother's records, including birth certificate, as her own. "Editing wars" have been fought over her Wikipedia page. Randall claims that if you match her age you get sole editorial control over that article. However, if anyone managed to exceed her achieved age, presumably they would get their own page (albeit that they should not be encouraged to {{w|Wikipedia:Editing Your Own Page|edit it}} themselves) and hers would cease to be as interesting - although that might depend on what use is made of the unparalleled editorial control now granted.

==Transcript==

<big>Age Milestones</big> 
and associated privileges

16  Drive 
17  Attend R-rated movies alone 
18  Vote 
21  Buy alcohol 
25  Rent a car 
32  Run for senate 
35  Run for president 
40  Rent a flying car 
45  Learn about the God-Empress 
50  Join AARP 
50  Get a shingles vaccine 
52  Click to skip captchas 
55  Vote for God-Empress 
62  $80 National parks lifetime pass 
65  Eligible for Medicare 
67  Collect Social Security 
68  See "Skip Ads" button on live TV 
70  Run for God-Empress 
75  Ride any animal in a national park 
80  Eligible for MegaCare 
85  Click to toggle whether any ad is positive or negative about the product 
90  Click to make any movie R-rated 
100  Get a letter from the president 
102  (35+67) Collect a presidential pension 
105  Get a birthday card from the God-Empress 
111  Leave your own birthday party early by putting on a magic ring 
118  Vote 100 times 
120  Collect the pensions of all elected officials 
125  Drink alcohol in an R-rated movie while getting a shingles vaccine from the president 
128  Age rolls over, become a baby again

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:CAPTCHA]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]] 
[[Category:Wikipedia]]

2661: Age Milestone Privileges

2022-08-20T08:40:11Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Solving a run-on nature of the sentences, and general rewrite that doesn't preclude it running on differently now...

2661: Age Milestone Privileges

2022-08-20T08:12:47Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Better asiding. Better grammatical form?

2661: Age Milestone Privileges

2022-08-20T00:39:45Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Already joked about in Talk section...

Talk:602: Overstimulated

2022-08-19T20:29:24Z

172.70.91.128:

The explanation needs to mention the irony of Man 3's line in the last panel. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.45|108.162.216.45]] 12:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

The Onion actually ran an article on March 19th 2014 titled "Report: Strongest Human Relationships Emerge From Bashing Friend Who Couldn't Make It Out." [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.23|108.162.220.23]] 21:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a discussion here about the use of the name "Elaine". The protagonist of the "[[:Category:1337|1337]]" series of comics is named [[Elaine Roberts|Elaine]]. Should that possible connection be stated in this article, or in the article for Elaine herself? [[User:Ijpete98|Ijpete98]] ([[User talk:Ijpete98|talk]]) 23:14, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Shouldn't the explanation say something about the sarcasm in the title text? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 20:29, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

1246: Pale Blue Dot

2022-08-17T10:40:01Z

172.70.91.128: /* Transcript */ The most logical reason for a stuck-pixel (one might argue over whether it was a slide-projector/OHP, given the original era, but the stuck pixel could have been present in the method of transfering data to the transparent film).

{{comic
| number = 1246
| date = August 2, 2013
| title = Pale Blue Dot
| image = pale_blue_dot.png
| titletext = Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. There is no road out of this oblivion; we must embrace it. We must join with the darkness. Ba'al the Annihilator offers us no happiness, no answers, naught but the cold embrace of the void. To imagine any other end is delusion. We must give in to the will of Ba'al, for he will one day consume us and our world alike. I therefore call on Congress to fully fund space exploration, and to join with Ba'al, the Eater of Souls. Thank you.
}}
==Explanation==
[[File:Pale Blue Dot.png|thumb|right|Earth is the "pale blue dot" halfway up the rightmost color band.]]
The {{w|Pale Blue Dot}} is a picture of the Earth taken in the year 1990 by the {{w|Voyager 1}} space probe at a distance about 6 billion kilometers (3.7 billion miles). It was part of the {{w|Family Portrait (Voyager)|Family Portrait}}, a series of images of the entire {{w|Solar System}} from beyond it.

The picture was taken at the request of {{w|Carl Sagan}}, a well known space scientist at that time. In 1994 Sagan wrote the book "{{w|Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space}}" inspired by this picture. In the book, Sagan waxed eloquent about the picture in a widely quoted passage. The complete passage can be found in [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan#Pale_Blue_Dot:_A_Vision_of_the_Human_Future_in_Space_.281994.29 Wikiquote], and you can hear Carl Sagan himself reciting it in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g this YouTube video].

[[Cueball]] quotes from a condensed version of this passage until he is interrupted by several {{w|Heckler}}s who begin an argument over which speck in the picture is actually the Earth. Then, when Cueball cries out in exasperation that it doesn't matter, one heckler takes it the wrong way and points out that he just said that the picture doesn't matter. This pokes fun at the fact that the Pale Blue Dot picture has very little to no visual attractiveness, apart from the intellectual interest relying on the viewer's knowledge that the central speck is actually our home planet, Earth, seen from a very great distance.

The first two sentences of the title text are also a quotation from Sagan's paean to the Pale Blue Dot picture, but then the text veers humorously into non-scientific mysticism that starkly contrasts with the attitude and intent of the original work.

The title text evokes {{w|Cosmicism}}, a philosophy developed and exemplified by the fictional {{w|Cthulhu Mythos}}. This Mythos is expounded in fantasy/horror works of H.P. Lovecraft and, later, August Derleth, and features a cosmology in which humanity is depicted as inconsequential within a greater existence that is unknowable and frightening. Cosmicism asserts that humanity is doomed to death and destruction through the workings of vastly more powerful supernatural forces way beyond our understanding. There are many instances in the fiction of H.P. Lovecraft of factions that embrace the destruction of humanity and actively work towards bringing about that end through the invocation of the unknowable and powerful forces that supporters of Cosmicism believe surround everything.

The text also references {{w|Ba'al}}, originally a Semitic deity that has been since associated with demonic or otherwise evil forces. The name Ba'al, and other variants of the same, has been included in many other fictional works often as a villain or antagonist. For example, the fictional System Lord {{w|Ba'al (Stargate)#Ba.27al|Ba'al}} from the television show {{w|Stargate}}. The title text supplants all of the supernatural forces associated with Cosmicism in the works of other authors with Ba'al. Cueball, who continues his discourse in the title text, may be acting as a Cosmicist and is calling on a Congress, to which he is speaking, to fund the space exploration program as a means to join with Ba'al, the Eater of Souls. The fact that a Ba'al cultist would be speaking in front of a government body in such a manner is absurd{{Citation needed}} and thus hilarious.

Ba'al, the Eater of Souls (sometimes as Ba'al the soul eater) has been mentioned later in [[1419: On the Phone]] and [[1638: Backslashes]].

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands in front of a pull-down projection screen, upon which is displayed a large gray picture of the ''Pale Blue Dot''. (There is no evidence that there is any blue in this comic). He holds up a stick with one hand towards it. He is interrupted by several hecklers from off-panel.]
:Cueball: Consider this Pale Blue Dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. Everyone you love, every human being who ever was, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived out their lives on this mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. All our-
:Heckler 1 (off panel): I think that's a stuck pixel. We're the speck on the left.
:Cueball: ...Ok, '''''this''''' Pale Blue Dot is everything you-
:Heckler 2 (off panel): No, you were right before. ''That'' one is earth.
:Cueball: '''''Look, it doesn't matter!'''''
:Heckler 3 (off panel): I ''knew'' it!
:Heckler 4 (off panel): I think this is just a lens cap picture.

==Trivia==
*At the time when this comic was published NASA did reveal two other pictures, showing our home planet from a long distance, [http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/whycassini/cassini20130722.html Saturn] and [http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?image_id=1228 Mercury] probes did picture the Earth at the same time. Earth appears as a tiny dot in these images as well as a result of the vast distance between Earth and the probes.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Space probes]]

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-17T06:36:32Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Presumed typo (if not supposed to be "goal" ;) ) although I'm unsure about the specifically deasoning of disregarding the handle...

{{comic
| number = 2658
| date = August 12, 2022
| title = Coffee Cup Holes
| image = coffee_cup_holes.png
| titletext = Theoretical physicist: At the Planck length, uncountably many.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CAFFEINE MOLECULE WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN ITS SIDE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic depicts people in different fields of study answering the question, "How many holes are there in a coffee cup?" and also compares this to what a normal person would say.

This question has different interpretations, entirely dependent upon the definition of a hole. The type of {{w|coffee cup}} shown in the comic is with a handle (like a {{w|mug}}), but [[Randall]] calls it a cup and there are also cups with handles on the Wikipedia page for coffee cups. Most people would recognize that there is a hole through the handle.

The comic explores the answer to the question through several peoples’ avenues of thought:

===Topologist===
[[File:Mug and Torus morph.gif|thumb|200px|The coffee mug and donut shown in this animation both have topological genus one.]]
[[Ponytail]], a {{w|topology|topologist}}, states the coffee cup belongs in the {{w|Genus (mathematics)#Topology|genus}} of one hole. From the topologist's point of view, the coffee cup definitely has one hole, which corresponds to the opening created by the cup handle. A cup without a handle would have zero holes, as it is equivalent to a dinner plate, just an indentation in the surface. See [[2625: Field Topology]] for more information about topology.

The panel as a whole references an academic joke wherein topologists can't tell the difference between a coffee cup (with handle) and a {{w|doughnut}} since they're {{w|Homeomorphism|homeomorphic}} to each other — meaning they have the same genus (i.e one hole).

===“Normal” person===
[[Hairy]], representing a "normal person," is not sure (the acronym "IDK" stands for "I don't know") and asks for clarification about whether the opening at the top counts as a hole. This shows flaws in the question, which suffers from the mathematically imprecise, ambiguous common usage of the word "hole." Topologists would refer to the opening as a concavity, not a hole, and while they consider such geometrical properties generally outside their field, most practical applications of topology do involve geometric components. By contrast, in everyday usage many concavities are called holes, such as a hole dug into dirt with a shovel. Hairy would say one for the handle, and two if the opening counts as a hole, which he is not certain the one asking the question thinks.

===Philosopher===
[[Hairbun]], a philosopher, answers the question with an elucidating counter-question, considering a hypothetical scenario. One might expect that drilling a new hole would also increase the number of holes by one. However, as illustrated, some people would consider that the new arrangement has three holes (in addition to the handle, there is a hole at the top where coffee can be poured in, and one at the bottom where it can run out), while others would consider it to have only two (the new hole forming a continuous hole with the original opening at the top, through which coffee can run). Some might in fact say that the coffee cup now has one hole because it is leaky, disregarding the handle topology at this point. In this way she requires her interlocutor to confront the ambiguities and consider what they mean by the word 'hole' in different contexts.

[[Image:Point cloud torus.gif|thumb|left|200px|A point cloud of a genus one surface]]

===Chemist===
[[Cueball]], a chemist, looks at the coffee in the cup on a molecular level. He envisions a {{w|ball-and-stick model}} of the {{w|caffeine}} molecules in the coffee, and estimates a total number of holes of all the coffee molecules. He comes up with a truly massive number: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1021 or 1 sextillion) “in the [https://chemapps.stolaf.edu/jmol/jmol.php?model=CN1C%3DNC2%3DC1C%28%3DO%29N%28C%28%3DO%29N2C%29C caffeine] alone.” One molecule of caffeine has two rings of bonds with holes in them, multiplied by 500 quintillion molecules, or 0.00083 {{w|mole (unit)|moles}}. As the molecular mass of caffeine is about 194 grams per mole, [[Randall]] must think that the mass of caffeine in a typical cup of coffee is 161 milligrams. The coffee could have other holes, depending on the type of coffee; for example, espresso contains significant amounts of niacin and riboflavin, which have one and three rings in their chemical structure, respectively.

This estimation depends on taking the ball-and-stick model of molecules somewhat literally. However, real molecular bonds are not solid sticks, but shared electron clouds between atoms. The "holes" in the middle of a molecule's rings are not completely empty but instead merely have lower electron probability density through the middle than other parts of the bonds. So the point-cloud duality of {{w|Bonding molecular orbital|electron orbitals and bonds}} might not satisfy a topologist's, normal person's, or philosopher's criteria for a connected substrate in which holes may be formed.

===Theoretical physicist===
[[Image:World lines and world sheet.svg|thumb|200px|{{w|String theory}} describes the {{w|worldline}}s of point-like particles as {{w|worldsheet}}s of "closed strings," forming topological holes; shown here as a genus two surface.]]
In the title text, a theoretical physicist looks even deeper, at the subatomic scale of {{w|Planck units}}. Since fundamental particle interaction is governed by fundamental forces and collision (per the {{w|Pauli exclusion principle}}) instead of tensile or ductile solid connectedness, the theoretical physicist posits that any definition providing for a single hole would also describe a number of holes akin to the factorial of the number of particles in the universe,[https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-02341882/document] or at least within the cup's {{w|light cone}}, which is a number impractical to accurately count, but not uncountable in a mathematical sense.

=== Practical considerations ===
The main joke is that the number of holes depends on both the scale and perspective from which you are looking at the world. From a topological standpoint, when someone digs into the ground it should go all the way through (or easier, down and up again another place) before it is considered a hole, since a hole is something that some other thing should be able to pass through. But from a common usage perspective, if people dig in the ground the result is called a hole, because functionally it creates a discontinuity in to which, for example, things can be placed or fall. Similarly, the opening in a coffee cup (without a handle) or a bottle of beer is called a hole, even though they are topologically equivalent to a dinner plate, which normal people would never say had a hole.

A cavity in a surface could also be considered a physical barrier, preventing movement along the surface in certain scenarios (e.g. a {{w|sinkhole}} opening up in the middle of a road) even though it may topologically 'flat' in the most general way, and so is very open to context, and such a hole might be considered more a 'thing' than the surface that has been removed to create it. And the 'hole' in a vessel that is functionally useful to hold liquid (or the drilled one that removes that ability) is of a different nature to the holes in various of the molecules that ''are'' the liquid but are neither required nor counter-productive in the general liquid-holding capabilities of the container, as are not the holes in the planck-length model, except insofar as the general physical laws of reality. Conversely, this conceptual confusion over what a hole is or actually means can be seen in the idea of the {{w|portable hole}}, which tends to obey ({{w|Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner|or defy}}!) the owner's particular preconceptions or needs.

The topological discussion here regarding cups and doughnuts is related to the question of how many holes there are in a human, which is excellently answered in Vsauce's video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEraZP9yXQ How Many Holes Does a Human Have?]. This also takes a god look at the topological difference between a paper cup and a mug with handle.

==Transcript==
:[The first panel has text only and is phrasing a question:]
:<big>Q:</big>
:How many holes are there in a coffee cup?

:[Each of the next four panels has a caption at the top to indicate the kind of person answering the question. In the first of these Ponytail stands holding a coffee cup in its handle.]
:Caption: Topologist
:Ponytail: One.

:[In the next panel Hairy stands to the right of Ponytail, holding the coffee cup in its handle at an angle so he can to look into it.]
:Caption: Normal person
:Hairy: IDK, does the opening count as a hole?

:[In the next panel Hairbun is shown in closeup, holding her hand out palm up to indicate two drawings of coffee cups with handles to her left. The top drawing is larger and shows the cup with coffee inside, and a hole drilled at the bottom part of the side away from the handle. Coffee pours out of this hole. Beneath and further left is a smaller version of the same cup, but now without coffee. Instead two curved arrows goes from above to below through the hole of the handle and the hole now drilled in the bottom part of the cup. Each arrow is labeled with a question-mark.]
:Caption: Philosopher
:Hairbun: To answer that question, consider another: If we drill a hole in the side, how many holes are there now?
:?
:?

:[Cueball, without any cup, stands with a drawing of a caffeine molecule above and to the right of him. It has two "rings" with 5 and 6 atoms. Those rings are connected along one side. There are 9 "edges" on this, three of those has one atom attached to it and 3 others have four atoms attached to them (one atom with three others attached). The two that are at the end of the edge that belongs to both rings have no atoms attached, and the final of the 9 also has no atom.]
:Caption: Chemist
:Cueball: 1021 in the caffeine alone

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Physics]]

2659: Unreliable Connection

2022-08-16T01:41:19Z

172.70.91.128: /* Transcript */

{{comic
| number = 2659
| date = August 15, 2022
| title = Unreliable Connection
| image = unreliable_connection.png
| titletext = NEGATIVE REVIEWS MENTION: Unreliable internet. POSITIVE REVIEWS MENTION: Unreliable internet.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by ROUND TRIP LATENCY BACKOFF. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In this comic, [[Randall]] solves the social problem of demands for {{w|synchronous conferencing|synchronous teleconferencing}} with a deliberately less than optimal internet device that causes {{w|Asynchronous communication|asynchronous}} methods of communication to be relatively more reliable and efficient for personal use. The device appears to be an automated version of a {{w|Galton board}} or {{w|Jin Akiyama}}'s mathematical {{w|pachinko}} machine[https://arxiv.org/pdf/1601.05706.pdf] with a series of eleven "on" and one "off" switches at the bottom to be pressed by falling balls. This is funny because such a device could likely much more easily be implemented in the {{w|firmware}} of the internet or WiFi {{w|modem}} or {{w|Router (computing)|router}}s. (See [[1785: Wifi]] for an explanation of firmware.) It's not clear whether the switches merely interrupt the connection momentarily or control power to the modem, which would involve a much longer booting sequence.

Assuming the machine is symmetric (and ordinary [https://drops.dagstuhl.de/opus/volltexte/2018/8817/pdf/LIPIcs-FUN-2018-26.pdf]), the probability of a single ball hitting the "off" switch is 165/2048, or about 8%. We don't know the frequency with which new balls are dropped, so we can't estimate the frequency with which the device is likely to trigger {{w|Session Initiation Protocol}}, {{w|Transmission Control Protocol}}, or similar {{w|Timeout (computing)|timeout}} conditions that would likely close synchronous {{w|VOIP}}, video conferencing, and e.g. {{w|VRChat}} connections. Even if such connections were to survive the induced service interruptions, the {{w|application layer}} call or teleconference quality would suffer during them. The device may cause interruptions rarely enough that the connection is usable for casual purposes, but the user can still reasonably claim that it's unreliable to get out of online obligations.

The title text reflects on today's increasingly always-connected world, where emphasis may be changing from finding vacation spots that have reliable internet to finding somewhere worthwhile to go that still doesn't have it. It could also be a comment on the mild paradox that a nominally unreliable internet connection has advantages for those whose communication schedules, volume, or style preferences make synchronous teleconferencing less practical, as indicated by the reviews for the new vacation spot.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[There are twelve switches under an automated Galton board or pachinko machine, eleven of which are linked to a large item marked "on" but the eighth of which is linked to one marked "off", apparently controlling the operation of a modem connected to a gigabit data-socket and also connected onwards to a WiFi router. There is a supply of balls in a hopper above the board, with the triangular configuration of pins directing the balls chaotically to one or other of the switches.]

:Caption: My new vacation spot has very fast internet that turns off randomly every now and then, just so you can tell people you'll be staying somewhere without a reliable connection.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Internet]]

2658: Coffee Cup Holes

2022-08-15T23:00:24Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ A whole lotta hole stuff.

{{comic
| number = 2658
| date = August 12, 2022
| title = Coffee Cup Holes
| image = coffee_cup_holes.png
| titletext = Theoretical physicist: At the Planck length, uncountably many.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a CAFFEINE MOLECULE WITH A HOLE DRILLED IN ITS SIDE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic depicts people in different fields of study answering the question, "How many holes are there in a coffee cup?" and also compares this to what a normal person would say.

This question has different interpretations, entirely dependant upon the definition of a hole. The type of {{w|coffee cup}} shown in the comic is with a handle (like a {{w|mug}}), but [[Randall]] calls it a cup and there are also cups with handles on the Wikipedia page for coffee cups. Most people would recognize that there is a hole through the handle.

[[File:Mug and Torus morph.gif|thumb|200px|The coffee mug and donut shown in this animation both have topological genus one.]]

[[Ponytail]], a {{w|topology|topologist}}, states the coffee cup belongs in the {{w|Genus (mathematics)#Topology|genus}} of one hole. A common joke is that topologists can't tell the difference between a coffee cup (with handle) and a {{w|doughnut}} since they're {{w|Homeomorphism|homeomorphic}} to each other — meaning they have the same genus, i.e one hole. From the topologist's point of view, the coffee cup definitely has one hole, which corresponds to the opening created by the cup handle. A cup without a handle would have zero holes, as it is equivalent to a dinner plate, just an indentation in the surface. See [[2625: Field Topology]] for more information about topology.

[[Hairy]], a normal person, is not sure (the acronym "IDK" stands for "I don't know") and asks for clarification about whether the opening at the top counts as a hole. This shows flaws in the question, which suffers from the mathematically imprecise, ambiguous common usage of the word hole. Topologists would refer to the opening as a concavity, not a hole, and while they consider such geometrical properties generally outside their field, most practical applications of topology do involve geometric components. Hairy would say one for the handle, and two if the opening counts as a hole, which he is not certain the one asking the question thinks.

[[File:Double torus illustration.png|thumb|left|200px|A genus two surface]]

[[Hairbun]], a philosopher, answers the question with an elucidating counter-question, considering a hypothetical scenario. Drilling a new hole should increase the number of holes by one. After the hole has been drilled, the coffee cup with handle has two holes according to topologists. Two drawings are shown; one drawing with arrows pointing to three different 'holes' (the handle, the upper cavity and the newly drilled hole), therefore implying the original cup had 2 holes, and one drawing showing two possible paths through the cup (through the handle, plus into the cavity and then out through the drilling) which implies the original previously only had the one hole. The last drawing aligns with the way the Ponytail sees it.

[[Image:Point cloud torus.gif|thumb|200px|A point cloud of a genus one surface]]

[[Cueball]], a chemist, looks at the coffee in the cup on a molecular level, which means it has very many holes: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1021 or 1 sextillion) “in the [https://chemapps.stolaf.edu/jmol/jmol.php?model=CN1C%3DNC2%3DC1C%28%3DO%29N%28C%28%3DO%29N2C%29C caffeine] alone.” One molecule of caffeine has two rings of bonds with holes in them, so Cueball is talking about 500 quintillion molecules, or 0.00083 {{w|mole (unit)|moles}}. As the molecular mass of {{w|caffeine}} is about 194 grams per mole, [[Randall]] must think that the mass of caffeine in a typical cup of coffee is 161 milligrams. The coffee could have other holes, depending on the type of coffee; for example, espresso contains significant amounts of niacin and riboflavin, which have one and three rings in their chemical structure, respectively. However, bonds are not sticks as portrayed in many molecular models. The "holes" in the middle of a molecule's rings are not completely empty but instead merely have lower electron probability density through the middle than other parts of the bonds. So the point-cloud duality of {{w|Bonding molecular orbital|electron orbitals and bonds}} might not satisfy a topologist's, normal person's, or philosopher's criteria for a connected substrate in which holes may be formed.

[[Image:World lines and world sheet.svg|left|thumb|200px|{{w|String theory}} describes the {{w|worldline}}s of point-like particles as {{w|worldsheet}}s of "closed strings," forming topological holes.]]

In the title text, a theoretical physicist looks even deeper, at the subatomic scale of {{w|Planck units}}. Since fundamental particle interaction is governed by fundamental forces and collision (per the {{w|Pauli exclusion principle}}) instead of tensile or ductile solid connectedness, the theoretical physicist posits that any definition providing for a single hole would also describe a number of holes akin to the factorial of the number of particles in the universe,[https://tel.archives-ouvertes.fr/tel-02341882/document] or at least within the cup's {{w|light cone}}, which is a number impractical to accurately count, but not uncountable in a mathematical sense.

The main joke is that the number of holes depends on both the scale and perspective from which you are looking at the world. From a topological standpoint, when someone digs into the ground it should go all the way through (or easier, down and up again another place) before it is considered a hole, since a hole is something that some other thing should be able to pass through. But from a common usage perspective, if people dig in the ground the result is called a hole, because functionally it creates a discontinuity in to which, for example, things can be placed or fall. Similarly, the opening in a coffee cup (without a handle) or a bottle of beer is called a hole, even though they are topologically equivalent to a dinner plate, which normal people would never say had a hole.

A cavity in a surface could also be considered a physical barrier, preventing movement along the surface in certain scenarios (e.g. a {{w|sinkhole}} opening up in the middle of a road) even though it may topologically 'flat' in the most general way, and so is very open to context, and such a hole might be considered more a 'thing' than the surface that has been removed to create it. And the 'hole' in a vessel that is functionally useful to hold liquid (or the drilled one that removes that ability) is of a different nature to the holes in various of the molecules that ''are'' the liquid but are neither required nor counter-productive in the general liquid-holding capabilities of the container, as are not the holes in the planck-length model, except insofar as the general physical laws of relity. Conversely, this conceptual confusion over what a hole is or actually means can be seen in the idea of the {{w|portable hole}}, which tends to obey ({{w|Wile E. Coyote and the Road Runner|or defy}}!) the owner's particular preconceptions or needs.

The topological discussion here regarding cups and doughnuts is related to the question of how many holes there are in a human, which is excellently answered in Vsauce's video
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egEraZP9yXQ How Many Holes Does a Human Have?]. This also takes a god look at the topological difference between a paper cup and a mug with handle.

==Transcript==
:[The first panel has text only and is phrasing a question:]
:<big>Q:</big>
:How many holes are there in a coffee cup?

:[Each of the next four panels has a caption at the top to indicate the kind of person answering the question. In the first of these Ponytail stands holding a coffee cup in its handle.]
:Caption: Topologist
:Ponytail: One.

:[In the next panel Hairy stands to the right of Ponytail, holding the coffee cup in its handle at an angle so he can to look into it.]
:Caption: Normal person
:Hairy: IDK, does the opening count as a hole?

:[In the next panel Hairbun is shown in closeup, holding her hand out palm up to indicate two drawings of coffee cups with handles to her left. The top drawing is larger and shows the cup with coffee inside, and a hole drilled at the bottom part of the side away from the handle. Coffee pours out of this hole. Beneath and further left is a smaller version of the same cup, but now without coffee. Instead two curved arrows goes from above to below through the hole of the handle and the hole now drilled in the bottom part of the cup. Each arrow is labeled with a question-mark.]
:Caption: Philosopher
:Hairbun: To answer that question, consider another: If we drill a hole in the side, how many holes are there now?
:?
:?

:[Cueball, without any cup, stands with a drawing of a caffeine molecule above and to the right of him. It has two "rings" with 5 and 6 atoms. Those rings are connected along one side. There are 9 "edges" on this, three of those has one atom attached to it and 3 others have four atoms attached to them (one atom with three others attached). The two that are at the end of the edge that belongs to both rings have no atoms attached, and the final of the 9 also has no atom.]
:Caption: Chemist
:Cueball: 1021 in the caffeine alone

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairbun]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Physics]]

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-12T10:03:12Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Another multi-choice replacement (...almost certainly...) (etc)

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ROUNDED TONGUE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
[[File:Ipa-chart-vowels.png|thumb|200px|The standard IPA vowel chart.]]
This is another one of Randall's [[:Category:Tips|Tips]], this time a Linguistics Tip.

The curly-haired linguist, [[:Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch|Gretchen McCulloch]], manages to produce a cursed sound using complex vowels, that cannot be comprehended by normal humans like [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]], that seem to get a headache from listening to the sound. The sound she makes was accomplished (and the tip is about this) by extending the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce the complex vowels.

In phonetics based on the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (IPA), the space of {{w|vocal tract}} articulators determining {{w|vowel}}s  is represented as two-dimensional, from the position of the tongue. The vertical axis represents vowel height or ''closedness'' (i.e., how close or far the tongue is from the top of the mouth), and the horizontal axis represents front-to-back ''place'' (i.e., how close or far the top of the tongue is from the teeth.) The position of the tongue, along with the frequency of the {{w|vocal cords}} vibrating in the larynx from air being exhaled by the diaphragm, are the primary determinants of the fundamental and second {{w|formant}}s of vowel sounds.

A third dimension of vowel sounds is the "roundedness" of the lips, represented on the IPA vowel chart to the right by pairs of vowel phoneme {{w|glyph}}s. Other higher-dimensional vowel representations include {{w|diphthong}}s, which are simply two different sequential vowels slurred together; diphones, which represent the last half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next; {{w|vowel shift}} mappings delineating different accents[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/47086396.pdf][https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447010000562] and long-term evolution of voiced phone sounds; and {{w|cepstrum|cepstral}} representations such as {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|mel-frequency cepstral coefficients}}.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the range of vowel sounds available by using complex notation to indicate an additional dimension with an "imaginary" axis. In mathematics, {{w|complex number}}s are numbers including both real numbers and {{w|imaginary number}}s. A complex number can be expressed as, "''a'' + ''b''i," where ''a'' and ''b'' are real numbers, but the latter imaginary part is combined with 'i,' the square root of negative one, as depicted in the central expression in the comic by √-̅1̅, indicating a further dimension of coordinates. When expanding the one-dimensional number line with an imaginary axis, it becomes two-dimensional with the "''b''i" component {{w|orthogonal}} to the original "real" number line. Linguists never use the {{w|complex plane}} to represent vowel roundedness or any other higher-dimensional features of phonemes, although the properties of complex numbers could conceivably support representing physiological features of the vocal tract, such as prior position of the articulators.{{cn}}

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. Such complex vowels are implied to create sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain, represented graphically as {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA, similarly to the cliché of "black speech" in {{w|Lovecraftian horror}}, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans. In reality, people find Zalgo text amusing, thus the humor of the comic, but not particularly insanity-inducing or even more than mildly confusing.{{cn}} This is also funny because unadorned IPA shares some characteristics with Zalgo text, such as extremely uncommon glyphs and weird {{w|diacritics}}.

In linguistics, 'ə' is the {{w|schwa}} symbol, referred to in the title text and the depiction of complex phonemes, the most common vowel sound in English polysyllabic words (the 'a' in "comma" or the second 'e' in "letter.") Production of the schwa sound takes place with the tongue, jaw, and lips all in a relaxed, central position; However, it is clearly not the normal schwa sound but the one moved into the complex vowel plane by using all letters in the word twice with a diacritic on top: "ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ". To pronounce this sound Randall suggest you just say it like the X in Fire. This of course makes no sense in the normal world, since there is no x in fire, but in the complex vowel plane there might be, and you just say it like that X. This is of course in line with the idea, that the complex sounds are non comprehend-able for the human ear, and most likely also impossible to pronounce for anyone other than [[:Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch|Gretchen]].

Another example of weird diacritics is in [[2619: Crêpe]], and with Zalgo text in [[1647: Diacritics]]. The use of typography to create psychological stress is explored in [[859: (]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A diagram shows the extrusion of the trapezoidal IPA vowel chart upwards into three dimensions. A point near the center is labeled with an equation that shows "ə + 1/2√-̅1̅ " as being equivalent to a made-up symbol that looks like two schwas mirroring each other with other markings above and below.]

:[Below the diagram, a character with shoulder-length dark wavy hair pronounces the new vowel in a speech bubble with unstable lines surrounding it. Two bystanders to her right are bent over slightly, clutching their heads in apparent anguish.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Linguistics tip: Extend the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce the ''complex vowels'', cursed sounds which the human mind cannot comprehend.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch]]

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-12T10:00:40Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Among other choices (...anyone else, except for...) (...anyone who is not...) (...possible to pronounce for... ...but not anyone else.) to replace a slightly otherworldly phrasing, to my ear/eye.

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ROUNDED TONGUE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
[[File:Ipa-chart-vowels.png|thumb|200px|The standard IPA vowel chart.]]
This is another one of Randall's [[:Category:Tips|Tips]], this time a Linguistics Tip.

The curly-haired linguist, [[:Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch|Gretchen McCulloch]], manages to produce a cursed sound using complex vowels, that cannot be comprehended by normal humans like [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]], that seem to get a headache from listening to the sound. The sound she makes was accomplished (and the tip is about this) by extending the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce the complex vowels.

In phonetics based on the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (IPA), the space of {{w|vocal tract}} articulators determining {{w|vowel}}s  is represented as two-dimensional, from the position of the tongue. The vertical axis represents vowel height or ''closedness'' (i.e., how close or far the tongue is from the top of the mouth), and the horizontal axis represents front-to-back ''place'' (i.e., how close or far the top of the tongue is from the teeth.) The position of the tongue, along with the frequency of the {{w|vocal cords}} vibrating in the larynx from air being exhaled by the diaphragm, are the primary determinants of the fundamental and second {{w|formant}}s of vowel sounds.

A third dimension of vowel sounds is the "roundedness" of the lips, represented on the IPA vowel chart to the right by pairs of vowel phoneme {{w|glyph}}s. Other higher-dimensional vowel representations include {{w|diphthong}}s, which are simply two different sequential vowels slurred together; diphones, which represent the last half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next; {{w|vowel shift}} mappings delineating different accents[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/47086396.pdf][https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447010000562] and long-term evolution of voiced phone sounds; and {{w|cepstrum|cepstral}} representations such as {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|mel-frequency cepstral coefficients}}.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the range of vowel sounds available by using complex notation to indicate an additional dimension with an "imaginary" axis. In mathematics, {{w|complex number}}s are numbers including both real numbers and {{w|imaginary number}}s. A complex number can be expressed as, "''a'' + ''b''i," where ''a'' and ''b'' are real numbers, but the latter imaginary part is combined with 'i,' the square root of negative one, as depicted in the central expression in the comic by √-̅1̅, indicating a further dimension of coordinates. When expanding the one-dimensional number line with an imaginary axis, it becomes two-dimensional with the "''b''i" component {{w|orthogonal}} to the original "real" number line. Linguists never use the {{w|complex plane}} to represent vowel roundedness or any other higher-dimensional features of phonemes, although the properties of complex numbers could conceivably support representing physiological features of the vocal tract, such as prior position of the articulators.{{cn}}

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. Such complex vowels are implied to create sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain, represented graphically as {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA, similarly to the cliché of "black speech" in {{w|Lovecraftian horror}}, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans. In reality, people find Zalgo text amusing, thus the humor of the comic, but not particularly insanity-inducing or even more than mildly confusing.{{cn}} This is also funny because unadorned IPA shares some characteristics with Zalgo text, such as extremely uncommon glyphs and weird {{w|diacritics}}.

In linguistics, 'ə' is the {{w|schwa}} symbol, referred to in the title text and the depiction of complex phonemes, the most common vowel sound in English polysyllabic words (the 'a' in "comma" or the second 'e' in "letter.") Production of the schwa sound takes place with the tongue, jaw, and lips all in a relaxed, central position; However, it is clearly not the normal schwa sound but the one moved into the complex vowel plane by using all letters in the word twice with a diacritic on top: "ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ". To pronounce this sound Randall suggest you just say it like the X in Fire. This of course makes no sense in the normal world, since there is no x in fire, but in the complex vowel plane there might be, and you just say it like that X. This is of course in line with the idea, that the complex sounds are non comprehend-able for the human ear, and most like also impossible to pronounce for anyone other than [[:Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch|Gretchen]].

Another example of weird diacritics is in [[2619: Crêpe]], and with Zalgo text in [[1647: Diacritics]]. The use of typography to create psychological stress is explored in [[859: (]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A diagram shows the extrusion of the trapezoidal IPA vowel chart upwards into three dimensions. A point near the center is labeled with an equation that shows "ə + 1/2√-̅1̅ " as being equivalent to a made-up symbol that looks like two schwas mirroring each other with other markings above and below.]

:[Below the diagram, a character with shoulder-length dark wavy hair pronounces the new vowel in a speech bubble with unstable lines surrounding it. Two bystanders to her right are bent over slightly, clutching their heads in apparent anguish.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Linguistics tip: Extend the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce the ''complex vowels'', cursed sounds which the human mind cannot comprehend.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch]]

Talk:2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-11T08:19:45Z

172.70.91.128:

Spoken symbol bears resemblance to 🜏, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%F0%9F%9C%8F
:Not really, it's closer to 'əG.' [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.25|172.69.33.25]] 01:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
::Looks like ꬱ to me. Plus some diacritics sprinkled over it, of course. It does look ''similar'' to 🜏 when you include the zalgo. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.98.99|172.71.98.99]] 06:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

sscchhwwaa is easy, say it like the x in "fire" and the silent p in "bath"[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 21:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
:What? There is no 'x' in "fire." [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.25|172.69.33.25]] 01:17, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Ideas: bellows-, reed-, and lucite-based voiced phone production tracts typical in science museums; {{w|diphone}}s as an alternative to phomemes (a diphone is the second half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next -- NOT two adjacent phomemes as the Wikipedia article claims. Two adjacent phomemes are a biphone, not a diphone); the relationship of the position of the tongue in two dimensional place × closedeness space to the fundamental and second {{w|formant}} frequencies of speech audio; {{w|diphthong}}s; {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|cepstral}} representation such as {{w|MFCC|mel-frequency ceptstral coefficients}}; and {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 22:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
: Roger. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.149|172.69.33.149]] 03:25, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

The vowelspace is depicted in two dimensions for convenience, but it has at least three dimensions. Look at the IPA vowel diagram (already added to this page). The third dimension is roundedness.
:Yes, of the lips; apart from the two dimensions (out: place, and up: closedeness) of the tongue. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.95|172.70.206.95]] 22:59, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
::Does roundedness also involve the tongue and cheeks to any extent? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.199|172.69.33.199]] 23:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

This linguist character has appeared 3 times now. Will there be a new character page dedicated to Gretchen or "The Linguist"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.225|172.69.33.225]] 00:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Can someone please create and paste in a zalgostring for the fancy 'əG' ligature shown twice in the comic? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 01:10, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
:Is this another example of Randall trolling Explainxkcd as in [[2619: Crêpe]]? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.37|172.69.33.37]] 01:45, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Someone please remind me how to Zalgo a top horizontal bar over √-1. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 02:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
: Slow way = Windows Character Map --> Group by: unicode subrange... Group By: Combining Diacritical Marks. 6th character from the top left (U+0305:Overline) yields √-̅1̅.
:Fast way = HTML character entities, ''{character it combines with}&#{character number code};'' (773:Overline) yields √-̅1̅
:Ignore other codes as they are either non-combining or have height relative to combining character (ie Macron) -- [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.201|172.69.70.201]] 04:35, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
::Are you sure? Those aren't wide enough to connect along the top for me. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.10|172.69.34.10]] 07:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I don’t think what Randall is trying to do is provide a “roundness” dimension, but that’s how the explanation reads to me right now (“such” a dimension, e.g.) [[User:Szeth Pancakes|Szeth Pancakes]] ([[User talk:Szeth Pancakes|talk]]) 05:13, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
: Agreed - rearranged it a bit to deal with the real-life dimensions first, then be more explicit that the proposal is to add to the existing dimensions in a way analogous to how imaginary numbers expand the domain of real numbers. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 08:19, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

2657: Complex Vowels

2022-08-11T08:15:32Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2657
| date = August 10, 2022
| title = Complex Vowels
| image = complex_vowels.png
| titletext = Pronouncing [ṡṡċċḣḣẇẇȧȧ] is easy; you just say it like the 'x' in 'fire'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a ROUNDED TONGUE. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

[[File:Ipa-chart-vowels.png|thumb|200px|The IPA vowel chart, with roundedness of the lips represented in pairs.]]

In phonetics based on the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet}} (IPA), the space of {{w|vocal tract}} articulators determining {{w|vowel}}s  is represented as two-dimensional, from the position of the tongue. The vertical axis represents vowel height or ''closedness'' (i.e., how close or far the tongue is from the top of the mouth), and the horizontal axis represents front-to-back ''place'' (i.e., how close or far the top of the tongue is from the teeth.) The position of the tongue, along with the frequency of the {{w|vocal cords}} vibrating in the larynx from air being exhaled by the diaphragm, are the primary determinants of the fundamental and second {{w|formant}}s of vowel sounds.

A third dimension of vowel sounds is the "roundedness" of the lips, and to a much lesser extent the tongue and cheeks, which is represented on the IPA vowel chart to the right by pairs of vowel phoneme {{w|glyph}}s. Other higher-dimensional vowel representations include {{w|diphthong}}s, which are simply two different sequential vowels slurred together; diphones, which represent the last half of one phoneme followed by the first half of the next; the {{w|vowel shift}} mappings delineating different accents[https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/47086396.pdf][https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447010000562] and long-term evolution of voiced phone sounds; and {{w|cepstrum|ceptstral}} representations such as {{w|Mel-frequency cepstrum|mel-frequency ceptstral coefficients}}.

[[Randall]] suggests increasing the range of vowel sounds available by using complex notation to indicate an additional dimension using an 'imaginary' axis. In mathematics, {{w|complex number}}s are numbers including both real numbers and {{w|imaginary number}}s. A complex number can be expressed as, "''a'' + ''b''i," where ''a'' and ''b'' are real numbers, but the latter imaginary part is combined with 'i,' the square root of negative one, as depicted in the central expression in the comic by √-1, indicating three dimensional coordinates. When expanding the one-dimensional number line with an imaginary axis, it becomes two-dimensional with the "''b''i" component orthogonal to the original "real" number line. Linguists never use the {{w|complex plane}} to represent vowel roundedness or any other higher-dimensional features of phonemes.{{cn}}

This comic conflates complex numbers in mathematics with "complex vowels" in linguistics. Such complex vowels are implied to create sounds which cannot be properly processed by the human brain, represented graphically as {{w|Zalgo text}} IPA, similarly to the cliché of "black speech" in {{w|Lovecraftian horror}}, a language created by alien beings with different vocal patterns than humans. In reality, people find Zalgo text amusing, thus the humor of the comic, but not particularly insanity-inducing or even more than mildly confusing.{{cn}} This is also funny because unadorned IPA shares some characteristics with Zalgo text, such as extremely uncommon glyphs and weird {{w|diacritics}}.

In linguistics, 'ə' is the {{w|schwa}} symbol, referred to in the title text as well as the depiction of complex phonemes, the most common vowel sound in English polysyllabic words (the 'a' in "comma" or the second 'e' in "letter.") Production of the schwa sound takes place with the tongue, jaw, and lips all in a relaxed, central position; and certainly sounds nothing like the 'x' in "fire", because "fire" doesn't contain the letter 'x.'

Another example of weird diacritics is in [[2619: Crêpe]], and with Zalgo text in [[1647: Diacritics]]. The linguist in the comic appears to be {{w|Gretchen McCulloch}}, as previously depicted in [[2421: Tower of Babel]] and [[2381: The True Name of the Bear]]. The use of typography to create psychological stress is explored in [[859: (]].

The multi-plane scheme of the comic seems inspired by the 3-flavour representation of the Gell-Mann quark model used in particle physics (you can see one on page 4 of the [[https://pdg.lbl.gov/2022/reviews/rpp2022-rev-quark-model.pdf|Particle Data Group quark model review]]).

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[A diagram shows the extrusion of the trapezoidal IPA vowel chart upwards into three dimensions. A point near the center is labeled with an equation that shows "ə + 1/2√-1" as being equivalent to a made-up symbol that looks like two schwas mirroring each other with other markings above and below.]

:[Below the diagram, a character with shoulder-length dark wavy hair pronounces the new vowel in a speech bubble with unstable lines surrounding it. Two bystanders to her right are bent over slightly, clutching their heads in apparent anguish.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:Linguistics tip: Extend the IPA vowel plane along the imaginary axis to produce ''complex vowels'', cursed sounds which the human mind cannot comprehend.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Tips]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Gretchen McCulloch]]

Talk:2656: Scientific Field Prefixes

2022-08-09T11:55:02Z

172.70.91.128:

Interestingly enough, the last time I was at a dentist, I ask them if they had seen any research work on how to do dentistry in zero-g, like if you got a toothache halfway to Mars.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.56|162.158.107.56]] 01:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC) BCS
:Comment on comment: there should have been work done on dental procedures aboard orbiting stations, and also on e.g. Antarctic bases. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.25|162.158.134.25]] 04:39, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Pär Leijonhufvud
::That's "Space Dentistry". Or, in the other case, something that surely should involve the term "Polar Molar" somewhere in the paper abstract! :-p
::'Astro-' is "of the stars", or of the things that are more in their vicinity than not. If it isn't dentristrying (or massaging) the stars themselves, it'd be learning how to apply the parent field to astrozoological subjects (assuming xenodentristry and xenomassage aren't the best terms for the otherwise xenobiological clientelle). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 11:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Those who say that there's no such thing as High-Energy Theology should be taken with a pinch of salt. Or even a {{w|Lot's wife|Lot}}! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.80|172.70.91.80]] 02:05, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm a little concerned with Theoretical Theology. How much more theoritical can base theology be? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.198|108.162.250.198]] 02:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Beechmere

'Theoretical theology' is a tautology. So the first word is redundant.
[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 06:47, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I'd love to conduct research on Marine Massage! How do I find the link? (Purposes.)
:We need another dimension for Theoretical Marine Massave [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 04:03, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately the "Marine dentistry" one appear to be a false positive: it contains the test string "...Marine, Dentistry..." in a list of possible fields where AR technology could be useful (Novakova, N.G., 2019. Innovation potential of augmented technologies in industrial context. Industry 4.0, 4(1), pp.24-28).
Also the "high-energy psychology" one was similarly a dud: student newspaper with a help wanted ad for a "high energy psychology student" (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/217247671.pdf). The lack of manual curation of Scholar sometimes gives you these finds. Thirdly, Randall definitely searched with quote marks: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=marine+dentistry yields over 100 k results while https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%252C5&q=%22marine+dentistry%22 only yields one, with at least one of the former being papers on marine mammal dentistry (I have for practical porpoises no interest in dentistry, but I *want* to read https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/9781119545804.ch11). In summary: by searching for the exact phrase Randall eliminated a large number of false positives, but also missed a large number of interesting papers. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.157|162.158.134.157]] 04:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC) Pär Leijonhufvud

honestly I'm mostly worried about computational theology [[Special:Contributions/172.71.6.65|172.71.6.65]] 04:40, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
: It's a fairly common subject in science fiction. Fredric Brown's short story "Answer", for example. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 04:46, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
: Isn't that better known as {{w|numerology}}? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.221|172.70.85.221]] 08:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
:Of course, you meant to write "The Nine Billion Names of God" by Arthur C. Clarke. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:35, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some research into use of synchrotron radiation in treating cancers in the jaw. Doesn't that count as "high energy"? [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 04:46, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

'High Energy Theology' sounds like an area of study extremely NOT conducive to the long-term survival of the human race. See this quote from the PRINCIPIA DISCORDIA:

'Mal-2 was once asked by one of his Disciples if he often prayed to Eris. He replied with these words: "No, we Erisians seldom pray, it is much too dangerous. Charles Fort has listed many factual incidences of ignorant people confronted with, say, a drought, and then praying fervently -- and then getting the entire village wiped out in a torrential flood."

We got ourselves into enough trouble when we split the atom. Gods only know what would result if we ever manage to split the thaum.

[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass|talk]]) 06:58, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Why is the "explanation" someone nitpicking the search method (and mixing up the "former" and "latter" order of unquoted vs. quoted), rather than an explanation of the joke? [[User:Conster|Conster]] ([[User talk:Conster|talk]]) 08:13, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
:Because sadly after ParL did their nitpicking, nobody else felt qualified to actually explain the joke [[User:256.256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256.256.256.256|talk about me behind my]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ/ back]) 10:09, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I worked on giving actually competent editors a base to modify, but then someone else had already made an explanation. Here's my attempt:

"Within each branch of science, like physics, chemistry or biology, there are different scientific fields. Some of the prefixes, like theoretical, quantum or astro-, are used across multiple branches of science. For example {{w|Quantum mechanics|quantum physics}} is about the physical properties of nature at the scale of atoms and subatomic particles, while {{w|Quantum chemistry}} is about the application of quantum mechanics to chemical systems.

Randall combines a bunch of different [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TitleDrop Scientific Field Prefixes] with another bunch of scientific branches, creating combinations that form several real fields of science, but also nonsense ones. To get a grasp on whether that scientific field is real and/or well-known, he searches for the combinations on {{w|Google Scholar}}, a web search engine that indexes the contents of scholarly literature across an array of publishing formats and disciplines, counting the number of results for each combination. Some term combinations are common, and can thus be assumed to be real scientific fields, while others are uncommon, suggesting that those fields are not well known. Four combinations are not found even once, suggesting that they are "potential research opportunities", as the title text says.

There are problems with Randall's method though:"

Maybe some of this may be useful, I don't know [[User:256.256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256.256.256.256|talk about me behind my]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ/ back]) 11:21, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

:''Ah, that was me. Apologies. And you ECed the following attempt to post into here, so hete it is repasted. ;) Still applies. Your contribution also clearly appreciated...''
:I hated it so much, I rewrote it ("/* Explanation */ Nixing the downer 'explanation'. Perhaps some points can be extracted from it, even as my attempt is improved or (in turn) overwritten with something better."). Was going to suggest a table of prefixes/suffixes to describe each, but someone added the (sortable) tables in for the full forms (caused me much edit-conflict pain, hope I didn't cause someone else ECs in return) so maybe that's overkill. But "what exactly is 'Astro-Dentistry'?", etc, might be a useful addition in there, if it doesn't make the table(s) hard to read... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.155|172.70.162.155]] 11:28, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
::''Postscript to above'': Yes, your explanation does things that I was going to do if I hadn't had my first attempt to nix/rewrite hit the table-adding. i.e. go into the major-suffix/minor-prefix sets, or even whole-term where it exists, and spell out and wikilink accordingly. I would be honoured to see your blocked text integrated into mine (or satisfied with yours going there again with barely a smidgen of mine still remaining). Up to you/the others, though, as I'm not wanting to add further ECs to the rush... ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 11:35, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
::I like that idea, maybe as an additional table? I can imagine it would take up a whole screen so maybe putting it at the end of the page could help so those that don't need it don't have to scroll over it. I don't feel capable enough to make such a big table (especially with 48 explanations) but I do support that idea. [[User:256.256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256.256.256.256|talk about me behind my]] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ/ back]) 11:36, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
:::I have added all three tables now. Both with plain numbers, for explanation and the one in the transcript (which should not be sort-able and not include massage!) Feel free to fill out the table. I have put it in a new section so editing that section or the explanation section does not edit conflict! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:52, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

842: Mark

2022-08-09T01:55:17Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Change to local standard for the wiki-link

{{comic
| number = 842
| date = January 3, 2011
| title = Mark
| image = mark.png
| titletext = I'm a solipsistic conspiracy theorist. I'm sure I must be up to something, and I will not stop until I find out what.
}}

==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Science Girl]] asks [[Cueball]] about a mark on his arm. He apparently believes he is part of a secret society, so secret that he doesn't know anything about the society. His belief in the existence of the society, and that he is a part of it, stem from one contact with an 'agent'. Most people would immediately dismiss the idea of such a secret society, especially with no evidence of its existence, and no knowledge of the goals or even whether it is inherently good or evil.

Six years after being 'chosen', Cueball finds a scrap of paper with an address on it, and a can of {{w|kerosene}}. Both of these events are not unlikely, and easily explained as simple coincidences, but Cueball somehow sees this as a command that he must burn down the house (maybe an example of {{w|ideas and delusions of reference})). Cueball shows that he is willing to put other people's lives at risk, destroy property and possessions, and face the possibility of prison, all because of one event six years prior.

Cueball's belief in the society, his delusional linking of the address and kerosene, and his actions in burning down the house, show how badly he wants to be part of something bigger, and to find meaning in the "Chaos of Life".

The punchline refers to an old grade school/middle school prank (Urban Dictionary: [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pen15+club pen 15 club], [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pen15 Pen 15].) You'd typically walk up to an unsuspecting schoolmate and ask them if he wants to join the Pen Fifteen Club. You'd tell them that to join, you merely have to write the club name on them. You'd then write "PEN15" on their hand or arm, and everyone would laugh at them because it looks like "PENIS". (In a common variant, it is simply called the Pen Club, 15 is the victim's "member number", and the pranksters write "PEN13" and "PEN14" on themselves.) In this case, [[Cueball]] fell victim to this prank as a child without ever figuring out the joke, and the ink somehow never got washed off by showers or baths or removed by shedding skin. In reality, it would be unlikely for such a mark to last for so long. While methods of making someone's skin more permanently do exist, it is hard to imagine someone tattooing or branding "PEN15" on their friend's arm as a prank.

As for the title text, {{w|solipsism}} is the philosophical idea that only your own mind is sure to exist while other minds can't be really known and so those other minds are not proved to be real. In this context it might mean that the only one who can conspire would be you, hiding the truth from yourself.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Science Girl are talking.]
:Science Girl: What's that on your arm?
:Cueball: The mark of a secret society.

:Science Girl: If it's secret, why tell me-
:Cueball: Because I know nothing. I can't betray them because I don't know who they are. I was chosen by an agent 20 years ago. That was my first and last direct contact.
:Cueball: It's safer that way.

:Six years later I found a piece of paper in the street with an address on it. The next day I found a can of kerosene in my garage that I'm sure I never bought.
:[The panel represents these actions by highlighting the mentioned objects in a world of gray.]

:I didn't know whose house it was. I just knew that I'd been given my orders. And I carried them out.
:[A dark figure holding the kerosene is silhouetted against a flame.]

:Cueball: I don't know who or what we're fighting.
:Cueball: Maybe we're the bad guys.
:Cueball: It doesn't matter to me.

:Cueball: It's enough to know that there are forces working beneath the chaos of life, and I'm a ''part'' of them.

:Cueball: That whatever this "Pen Fifteen" club is,
:Cueball: I'm ''in'' it.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Penis]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Science Girl]]

2654: Chemtrails

2022-08-04T11:11:25Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ Retaining the xkcd chemtrail/contrail link but reinforcing the differences again.

{{comic
| number = 2654
| date = August 3, 2022
| title = Chemtrails
| image = chemtrails.png
| titletext = Ants have reverse chemtrails--regular citizens spraying chemicals everywhere they go to control the government.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by an INKJET PRINTER FILLED WITH PERFUME. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

{{w|Ant}}s, studied along with other insects by {{w|entomologist}}s, leave trails of signalling secretions such as {{w|pheromones}}, natural chemicals that they emit along the trail to and from food sources and other events. These chemical trails guide other ants in the colony to return to food, but are not generally refered to as chemtrails by biologists except informally.

[[Cueball]] is intentionally conflating these with {{w|chemtrails}}, the subject of a conspiracy theory that the government controls the population by spraying toxic or mind-/body-transformative chemicals from high-flying aircraft. This myth may be partly based on the practice of {{w|cloud seeding}}, which uses chemical flares containing silver nitrate to attempt to increase precipitation,[https://www.vox.com/videos/23290459/cloud-seeding-manmade-rain-future-perfect] on studies of chemical mind control among ants,[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022191016301640] or both. Despite [[1677: Contrails|occasional conflation]], this is unrelated to "contrails", short for "condensation trails", which are cloud-like lines in the sky created by jet engines. Such linear cloud-formations arise from temperature and pressure disturbances of the passing engines rather than any deliberate release, but are highly visible (in the right cloud-free conditions that produce otherwise clear skies) to those who live under busy flightpaths, and may have the outwards appearance of some active "spraying" action.

Chemical manipulation of unwitting people is not uncommon, but is more a general mood-enhancing effect that works within a specific location[https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/3469-smells-shoppers-spend-more.html] and doesn't involve high-altitude airplanes. There is very little evidence that sophisticated mind control posited by chemtrail conspiracists is possible.{{Actual citation needed}}

[[Ponytail]] specifically studies ant navigation, conceivably as a professional entomologist who once worked with an editor who inserted the word "chemtrails" in one of her [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00359-019-01363-z comparative physiology] or [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10071-020-01354-7 ''Animal Cognition''] drafts competing before a peer review panel with papers by [https://bio.kuleuven.be/ento/pdfs/billen_procnev_2006_signal_variety.pdf Johan Bilen] of the Leuven University Zoological Institute and Harvard's [https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674045880 Rüdiger Wehner]. [[Cueball]] knows she will be annoyed when he tells her, "So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?" Indeed, he gets the reaction he hoped for when she objects strongly and rejects this with a loud, "'''No!!'''" Terminology is often a sore spot for those who study "slave-making" socially parasitic species.[https://evolve.community.uaf.edu/2015/04/23/emantcipation-when-captured-ants-rise-against-their-captors/] [[Randall]] writes in the caption that this is how to annoy people like Ponytail. Whether ant gland secretion signalling is {{w|Turing completeness|Turing-equivalent}} was explored in Douglas Hofstadter's ''{{w|Gödel, Escher, Bach|Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid}}''.

The title text contrasts individual ants instinctively deciding how the whole colony behaves by using chemicals to indicate routes to food or dangers to motivate the colony to react to their individual experiences, with the human fear of loss of personal independence by being regulated by otherwise disconnected ruling elites, as depicted in the ant-technology interaction speculative fiction-themed rock music video by the band ''Placebo'' entitled [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISvc-yUU1A "Infrared."]

Ants are a recurring theme, as are those who study them. See for instance [[1610: Fire Ants]]. Chemtrails was also the subject of [[966: Jet Fuel]], [[1677: Contrails]], and were mentioned in [[1803: Location Reviews]]. This comic has a similar format to [[2036: Edgelord]]: a simple one-panel interaction consisting of a (likely deliberate) misuse of a term in regards to a professional's work, followed immediately by the professional's upset outburst, and Randall's caption spelling out "How to annoy" the professional. Both of these seems to be related to Randall's [[:Category:My Hobby|hobbies]], as this is something he seems to think about a lot — how to annoy specific groups of people, which is necessary information for minimizing overall annoyance production.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[Cueball stands talking to Ponytail, who has her arms raised and has small lines above her head to indicate annoyance.]
:Cueball: So, I hear you're really into chemtrails?
:Ponytail: '''''No!!'''''

:[Caption below the panel:]
:How to annoy entomologists who study ant navigation

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Conspiracy theory]]

2653: Omnitaur

2022-08-02T11:10:55Z

172.70.91.128: /* Mythological phenotypical chimeras */ Smooth physical blending, but distinct visual differentiation.

{{comic
| number = 2653
| date = August 1, 2022
| title = Omnitaur
| image = omnitaur.png
| titletext = "My parents were both omnitaurs, which is how I got interested in recombination," said the normal human.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by AN OMNITAUR-HUMAN HYBRID - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
Omnitaur is an {{w|anagram}} of {{w|minotaur}}, a mythical creature that was part man, part bull. "{{wiktionary|omni}}" is a prefix that means "all" that is, for instance, known from the word {{w|omnivore}}, meaning 'all eating' as compared to {{w|carnivore}} or {{w|herbivore}} (only eating meat or plant respectively). Given the combination of animals used to create the omnitaur, it could be expected that it was also an omnivore.

An "omnitaur" would suggest that it would encompass all real and mythical creatures, or perhaps some random assortment of such. In this instance, it appears to be a hybrid, or {{w|Chimera (genetics)|genetic chimera}}, combined from eleven different creatures: {{w|fish}}, {{w|lion}}, {{w|snake}}, {{w|shark}} (also a fish), {{w|bull}}, {{w|dragon}} (a mythical creature in its own right), {{w|horse}}, {{w|leopard}}, {{w|Sheep|ram}} (male sheep), {{w|human}} and {{w|bird}}. Chimerism is not uncommon at the genetic level, for example humans have about 145 genes originating from bacteria, other single-celled organisms, and viruses,[https://www.science.org/content/article/humans-may-harbor-more-100-genes-other-organisms] but chimeras of larger organisms are rare, usually involving fraternal twins whose {{w|zygote}}s or {{w|embryo}}s combined. Artificial human chimeras with viruses, mice, pigs, and monkeys have been the subject of ethics controversies in recent years.[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/11/the-five-chimeras-human-monkey-hybrid-genetic]

The title text is a comment by a human whose parents were both omnitaurs. It would be strange that such parents would not produce offspring that was still omnitaur. It suggests that this may be the result of {{w|genetic recombination}}, which is the exchange of genetic material between different organisms leading to production of offspring with combinations of traits that differ from those found in either parent. In this case, seemingly, they inherited ''only'' the human elements of each parent, yet sufficient to develop into a whole human with no missing or chimeric elements. Since we don't understand omnitaur genetics, we can't evaluate whether that is even plausible.

===Mythological phenotypical chimeras===

In addition to the minotaur, many other potential inspirations can be found in mythology, like the {{w|centaur}}, which has the upper body of a human and the lower body and legs of a horse; the {{w|manticore}}, with a body of a lion and human face; a {{w|griffin}}, with a lion's body and a eagle's head; a {{w|mermaid}}, with a lower body of a fish and upper body of a human; a {{w|Hippocampus (mythology)|hippocampus}}, with the upper body of a horse and a lower body of a fish; a {{w|qilin}}, with a body that resembles both a horse and a dragon; or the mythological {{w|chimera (mythology)|chimera}}, for which the genetic chimera is named, which has lion, snake, and goat body parts. Ultimately, there are {{w|List of hybrid creatures in folklore|lots of hybrid creatures in mythology}} with {{w|phenotype}}s combined from multiple animals. Usually, genetic hybridization produces much more smoothly blended phenotypes instead of dividing the body into large distinctly chimeric regions, although {{w|Chimera (genetics)|chimerism}}/{{w|Mosaic (genetics)|mosaicism}} of fur, skin or {{w|Heterochromia iridum|eyes}} can produce notable differences of hue or darkness.

===Speculative implications===

In {{w|C. S. Lewis}}' {{w|The Chronicles of Narnia}}, the {{w|Magical_creatures_in_The_Chronicles_of_Narnia#Centaurs|centaurs}} are depicted eating two meals — a huge roast meal "to satisfy the man stomach," and a meal of grass, "to satisfy the horse stomach," making it take quite some time for them to eat every morning. Since the omnitaur also has herbivore and omnivore (as well as carnivore) parts, this could further support the supposition that it is an omnivore, and it may similarly need multiple stomachs for these multiple appetites. It is unclear how compatible the various diets of its components would be (not least because 'fish,' 'snake' and 'bird' are quite unspecific, and it's hard to know what a dragon would eat) but it would likely need several meals, taking even longer to eat than the Centaur (plus the bird beak may slow the process down quite a bit.)

Since the example depicted seems to be only 1/11 human, the odds of two parents as mentioned in the title text getting a fully human offspring would simplistically appear to be (1/11)11, or one chance in 285 billion. In reality, each physical part could not be the result of an equal genetic contribution, because the eleven animal chromosomes vary widely in number and size. If omnitaur genetics were governed by such principles, it would be hard to explain how a creature consisting of 11 different animals came into existence in the first place.{{cn}}

==Transcript==
:[A creature, the Omnitaur, is shown. It is a four legged animal divided into 11 segments, each segment is from a different animal. An arrow goes to each section from a label, most of the labels are above the animal, but the fourth and seventh segments labels are below the animal. The animal has a fish tail and cat like hind legs. The torso is divided into four segments, the first and last of these with scales, but only the last of these also with sharp scales at the top. The second torso segment is white and smooth, the third also white but with hair both above and below, those above merges with the sharp scales of the fourth torso segment. The front legs are horse like, the lower neck is from an animal with dark spots, the upper neck has rams horns, which goes over in the central part of a human head, with ears and hair (drawn like a real human, not like a xkcd stick figure) and finally the front of the face is a bird with its eyes and a beak shown. The labels are given here in the order of the segment of the animal from the back to the front (disregarding weather the label is written above or below the animal:]
:Fish
:Lion
:Snake
:Shark
:Bull
:Dragon
:Horse
:Leopard
:Ram
:Human
:Bird

:[Caption below the panel:]
:The Omnitaur

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Biology]]

Talk:2042: Rolle's Theorem

2022-08-01T18:36:42Z

172.70.91.128:

Now we wait for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munroes_theorem. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.165|172.69.54.165]] 15:51, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:Can't wait to see how long it takes to remove the article. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:05, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

:Proposed ideas for Munroe's Law:
::- Any seemingly simple idea will be difficult to prove; the simpler it seems, the harder the proof.
::- Any proof which is discovered by a layperson will have been previously discovered by an expert (or an "expert") in the field.
:[[User:Rajakiit|Raj-a-Kiit]] ([[User talk:Rajakiit|talk]]) 17:57, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
:I do not have the time to do it good, so here a suggestion: Would someone go to the wikipedia page of Rolle's theorem and add a "in popular culture" section? may be a first? Not even "Nash equilibrum" has that :-) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.234.16|162.158.234.16]] 08:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
::Done. [[User:Kmote|Kmote]] ([[User talk:Kmote|talk]]) 17:56, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
::Speaking of popular culture, there's a (moderately) well known Ballad of Rolle's theorem [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0BXv90MlhA Balada o vete Rolleovej] ("moderately" meaning some people who studied at Faculty of mathematics in Bratislava might have heard (of) it) --[[User:Kventin|Kventin]] ([[User talk:Kventin|talk]]) 07:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I feel like Euclid beat Randall to the punch here, a couple millennia. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.146|162.158.155.146]] 16:54, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't see that Thales has proven Randall's theorem. Do not to be confused with {{w|Thales's theorem}}, that's about right angles. Maybe I'm blind or just dumb, but if so it has to be explained with more traceable background. I just believe that this diagonal is so trivial that even the ancient Greeks weren't engaged on a proof. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
* From {{w|Thales|Wikipedia}}: Other quotes from Proclus list more of Thales' mathematical achievements: "They say that Thales was the first to demonstrate that the circle is bisected by the diameter, the cause of the bisection being the unimpeded passage of the straight line through the centre." [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 05:39, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
* On the other hand not all historian believe Proclus. But van der Waerden does: [https://books.google.com/books?id=HK3vCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA88#v=onepage&q&f=false]. [[User:Alexei Kopylov|Alexei Kopylov]] ([[User talk:Alexei Kopylov|talk]]) 05:49, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Rolle's Theorem counterexample?'''

Isn't the TAN(x) function a counterexample to this? Starting at a given point, it rises to infinity, then returns from negative infinity to the same point without ever having a slope of zero. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.89|172.68.58.89]] 06:58, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:TAN(x) isn't differentiable at pi/2, hence the theorem doesn't apply--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.40|162.158.92.40]] 07:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
::And tan(x) has a slope of 0 at pi, so even if it applied, it wouldn't prove it wrong. A better example would be 1/x, but still invalid. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 08:01, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:::Nope: tan(x) has a slope of 1 at pi, and its slope is never less than 1. Of course, that doesn't make it a counterexample. Zetfr 09:17, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Clueless Museum Visitor'''

The math in the comic is well explained, but shouldn't there be something about the "math equivalent of the clueless art museum visitor..." part? Zetfr 09:17, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
: Seconded, all the argument here is about math that isn't even *in* the comic, whereas the bit that confuses me is the cultural metaphor... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.235|162.158.154.235]] 07:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
: I had a go.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.103|162.158.154.103]] 08:35, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Just so we're on the same page, while the proof of Rolle's theorem is not completely trivial, neither is it difficult by any means. Proving it seems to be a pretty common homework assignment in undergrad math classes, for example, so one might legitimately ask why it deserved to be named. Perhaps it's simply that it's old enough that the methods at the time were crappy, and so modern proofs are much easier. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.140|172.69.22.140]]
: It is named because it's a very important theorem in calculus, used to prove many other theorems or results. So when you need to prove something using this property, instead of re-demonstrating it or merely saying "it is well known that..." (which often raises alarm bells in the mind of the reader/corrector), all you have to do is reference Rolle's theorem.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.158|162.158.155.158]] 11:08, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:: It could almost be called "Rolle's lemma". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.103|162.158.154.103]] 12:28, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
: When I am teaching Rolle's theorem, I always make it a point to draw the link to reals. Rolle's theorem fails when the output is complex valued. Then you can see for yourself how non-trivial this is. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.165.124|162.158.165.124]] 04:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Has anyone else noted the irony of having a wiki page to explain a comic whose subject is how some things are self-evident? [[User:JamesCurran|JamesCurran]] ([[User talk:JamesCurran|talk]]) 20:13, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Does the Kepler Conjecture actually belong on that list at the end? Most of the others are "derp" level intuitively obvious and/or essentially tautological on a very basic level, but the Kepler Conjecture couldn't actually be exhaustively proven until machine computation, nor is it intuitively definitive--if you've ever stacked round things into a box you've noticed that it feels like you're wasting a lot of space at the edges. So...? [[User:AtrumMessor|AtrumMessor]] ([[User talk:AtrumMessor|talk]]) 21:37, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
:I would also argue against most of the other examples. Neither the isoperimetric inequality nor the hairy ball theorem are obviously true and their proof is quite a bit more involved than the one of Rolle's theorem. The Jordan curve theorem sounds obvious but then the proof definitely isn't. The parallel postulate isn't even a theorem. The only real good example in the list is the pigeonhole principle.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.155|162.158.91.155]] 12:35, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:I have removed all but that, as it is the only one comparable to Rolle's in simplicity to understand without understanding math. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:04, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::I agree, Randall mentions nothing like that and a simple parallel is enough. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:25, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::I would argue that a lot of them could have stayed. Just because some of the examples given do have a lot of "hidden" mathematical complexity and are important bases for mathematical fields does not mean they are not useful parallels to the comic's example. In fact, one that comes to mind is the infamous 300-page Russell/Whitehead proof of 1+1=2. If anything, the more axiomatically complex but intuitively, even stupidly obvious something is, the BETTER it fits. My original point was that the Kepler Conjecture felt like a "which one of these things is not like the others" situation in the original list, as it was not at all easily proven, nor is it intuitively obvious. Some of these were actually pretty useful examples and should have been left, no matter how foundational they are to calculus ;) [[User:AtrumMessor|AtrumMessor]] ([[User talk:AtrumMessor|talk]]) 06:46, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

I also suggest that Fundamental Theorem of Calculus be removed from this list. Firstly, the beginner student, just introduced to derivatives and antiderivatives, will not easily see that antiderivatives are the same as finding areas under curves. Instead, it is only obvious upon hindsight, after instruction. More importantly, a restriction of the FTC to better-behaved spaces shows a far greater insanity: the restricted FTC is a consequence of generalised Stokes's theorem '''applied twice'''. This operation is so highly unintuitive, that one simply cannot claim that this is in any way, shape, or form, trivial. I think that trying to pretend that anything in beginning calculus is obvious to students is just going to alienate them rather than soothe their worries. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.165.124|162.158.165.124]] 04:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

:Ehh what? No, FTC restricted to smooth functions is simply a special-case of Stokes' Theorem. This is explained [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27_theorem#Introduction here]. I don't even know what you could possibly mean by applying Stokes' theorem twice, in any context. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 13:23, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

:: ``FTC restricted to smooth function is simply a special case of Stokes's theorem"" is basically what I said, although FTC proper applies to a wider range of functions. As to applying Stokes's theorem twice, remember that the differential form for areas is A = iint dw, where dw = dx ^ dy. You apply once to get that A = oint w, where oint runs around the entire boundary of the area to be considered. Then you have to use some smarts to zero the contributions from 3 of the 4 sides, leaving just the contribution from the x-axis. Then the boundary, which is supposed to have no boundary itself, gets two new boundaries, of which then you can apply another Stokes's theorem to get the F(b)-F(a) result. Again, this process is highly non-trivial, as evidenced by your failure to see what I meant from the first time talking about it. Pardon if the IP changed, it is me. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.60|162.158.167.60]] 04:48, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

::: No it isn't "basically" what you said. I know FTC applies to a wider range of functions, that's why I said "restricted to smooth functions". I have not even the slightest idea what process you're trying to explain or why you're talking about 2D integrals. FTC restricted to smooth functions ''is exactly'' Stokes restricted to a line-segment, there is no "process". Again, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokes%27_theorem#Introduction this wikipedia section] explains this quite well, albeit informally. [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 11:01, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

:::: You seem to be missing what I am referring to. There are at least two parts. Let's start with the main one. You keep referring to the same place of the same article. That is not under contention, so it is irrelevant. So I checked Wikipedia's article on FTC itself and I think I see why you don't see my point. When I learnt FTC from textbooks, the definition of integrals is via the area under curve, i.e. the relevant bit in the FTC article is the geometric intuition. The FTC article, however, quite much like you seem to be, however, only covers the anti-derivative part. In a sense, it comes down to the definition of what an ``integral" means. AFAIK, for beginners, there is only 3 definitions in common use, the directed area under curve, limit of a certain sum, and anti-derivatives. When I teach, I tend to define the directed area under curve, just because students like to see things. Because of that, my FTC has to cover the area under curve. And that is the 2D integral known to Leibniz. If you want the 2D integral, then you ought to integrate the fundamental differential form I was talking about---you don't talk about generalised Stokes's theorem without differential geometry, and I am trying to say that the identification of a definite integral with the area under curve is what is taught to beginning students, but is highly non-trivial under differential geometry! I hope this is clearer. Of course, the moment the 2D integral is reduced to a 1D integral with new boundaries, then the part you keep referring to is relevant, and again, not under any contention. I am simply saying I am not happy with that being the sole content of FTC. The FTC I respect is the one that includes the geometrical intuition. Finally, just the quibble---what part of my ``the restricted FTC is a consequence of generalised Stokes's theorem" is different from your ``FTC restricted to smooth functions is simply a special case of Stokes' theorem"? Even if you disagreed with my ``applied twice", you should not be disagreeing with my ``basically what I said". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.191|162.158.166.191]] 16:55, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

"Munroe's theorem" should definitely refer to the circle thing in the alt text {{unsigned ip|162.158.62.57}}

Since I'm half a mathematician, I did the math. I looked up Rolle's theorem and it uses the theorem of Weierstraß. I looked up the theorem of Weierstraß (better known as extreme value theorem) and it uses the theorem of Bolzano-Weierstraß. I looked up...why am I suddenly reminded of https://xkcd.com/609 ? :-) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.71|141.101.104.71]] 08:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

What goes up must come down. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.64|198.41.238.64]] 05:53, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Going in the opposite direction.'''

Sure, some seemingly obvious things can be made theorems, but there's a point of view that the most complex theorems may seem obvious to a sufficiently smart entity, that we have such hard time studying mathematics simply because it's difficult for us to grasp long sequences of obvious connections in our insufficiently powerful imagination, so we need to break it down into manageable pieces.
"I have come to believe, though very reluctantly, that it [mathematics] consists of tautologies. I fear that, to a mind of sufficient intellectual power, the whole of mathematics would appear trivial, as trivial as the statement that a four-legged animal is an animal." ---Bertrand Russell (1957) {{unsigned ip|162.158.74.231}}

"This is what f'(c) = 0 means, as f' is a common notation for the derivative of the function f in differential calculus." Is it? I took both calculus and differential equations as an undergraduate (in the United States in the 1970s/1980s) and never saw that notation.[[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 17:57, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
:Coming from a UK background, myself, I recognise it as such. Not really much experience the '70s, but definitely across the early '80s and beyond. For Secondary Education, in the first instance. Not sure what system dominated beyond secondary and tertiary/college levels and into my own university years (heading towards the '90s). It might have depended on whether it was the physics or the maths lectures and workshops (or indeed the given lecturer/workshopper of the moment) as to which of the many possible conventions we could have used and be considered correct. dFoo/dBar probably was used a lot, but obviously got messier than ''f''unctioning things when going far into that sort of thing (either direction!)
:I went a-looking and it ''is'' fairly common, even unto {{w|Derivative#Higher_derivatives|higher derivatives with multiple marks}} (which I've used, well... to no more than the third degree, probably).
:Looking further still, I now know (have remindedvmyself?) that {{w|Notation for differentiation#Lagrange's notation|it's 'Lagrangian' notation}}, at least as far as it stays unawkward before going into the numeric form rather than repeated Prime-marks towards a sublime ridiculousness.
:Of course, elsewhere on that latter link you might find your own learnt system. Or various others more familiar to you and which I ''may'' as readily recognise, unprompted. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.133|162.158.159.133]] 18:23, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

2035: Dark Matter Candidates

2022-07-30T09:53:57Z

172.70.91.128: /* Title text */ of

{{comic
| number = 2035
| date = August 20, 2018
| title = Dark Matter Candidates
| image = dark_matter_candidates.png
| titletext = My theory is that dark matter is actually just a thin patina of grime covering the whole universe, and we don't notice it because we haven't thoroughly cleaned the place in eons.
}}

==Explanation==
{{w|Dark matter}} is a hypothetical, invisible form of matter used by the vast majority of astronomers to explain the far too high apparent mass of objects at large scales in our universe. In galaxies, stars are orbiting faster than the gravitational force of the sum of the masses of visible matter in the galaxy could cause, and entire galaxies are observed moving much faster around each other than their visible masses could explain. In galactic collisions, the mass can appear to separate from the visible matter, as if the mass doesn't collide but the visible matter does. A small handful of galaxies have been observed to not have this property, suggesting that it is a ''thing'' that a galaxy can have more or less of and is separable from. At scales of our solar system, those effects are too small and can't be measured. The most plausible explanation for all of these phenomena is that there is some "dark matter" that has gravity, but is otherwise undetectable. In cosmology, dark matter is estimated to account for 85% of the total matter in the universe.

This comic gives a set of possibilities for what dark matter could possibly be, charted by mass from smallest (given in {{w|Electronvolt#Mass|electronvolts}}) to largest (given in kilograms). Masses in the range 10−15 to 10−3 kg are given in grams together with appropriate prefixes, while the ton takes the place of 103 kg.

Only massive objects ranging from subatomic particles up to super massive ones are covered in this comic. There are also {{w|Dark matter#Alternative hypotheses|alternative hypotheses}} trying to modify general relativity with no need of additional matter. The problem is that these theories can't explain all different observations at once. Nonetheless dark matter is a mystery because no serious candidate has been found yet.

The joke in this comic is that the range of the mass of the possible particles and objects stretch over 81 powers of ten, with explanations suggested by astronomers covering only some portions of that range. [[Randall]] fills the gaps with highly absurd suggestions.

==== Axion ====
An {{w|Axion|axion}} is a hypothetical elementary particle postulated in 1977 to resolve the strong CP problem in {{w|Quantum chromodynamics|quantum chromodynamics}}, a theory of the strong force between {{w|Quark|quarks}} and {{w|Gluon|gluons}} which form {{w|Hadron|hadrons}} like {{w|Proton|protons}} or {{w|Neutron|neutrons}}. If axions exist within a specific range of mass they might be a component of dark matter. The advantage of this particle is that it's based on a theory which could be proved or also disproved by measurements in the future. Other theories, not mentioned in this comic, like the {{w|Weakly interacting massive particles|weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPs)}} are much more vague.

==== Sterile neutrino ====
{{w|Sterile neutrino|Sterile neutrinos}} are hypothetical particles interacting only via gravity. It's an actual candidate for dark matter. The well known {{w|Neutrino|neutrinos}} are also charged under the {{w|Weak interaction|weak interaction}} and can be detected by experiments.

==== Electrons painted with space camouflage ====
{{w|Electron|Electrons}} are fundamental particles which compose the outer layers of atoms. A large number of electrons in the galaxy would be relatively easy to detect, as they not only interact with light (which dark matter does not appear to), but also have a strong electric charge. Presumably, space camouflage is a positively-charged coating which prevents electrons from interacting with light. (Needless to say,{{Citation needed}} this is not an actual candidate for dark matter.) The mass of an electron is about 0.5 MeV which fits well into the graph.

==== Neutralino ====
A {{w|Neutralino|neutralino}} is a hypothetical particle from {{w|Supersymmetry|supersymmetry}} and is also a current candidate for dark matter. But there is not evidence whether or not supersymmetry is correct and none of the predicted particles have been found yet.

==== Q-ball ====
In theoretical physics, a {{w|Q-ball}} is a stable group of particles. It's an actual candidate for dark matter.

(In billiards, a cue ball is the white (or yellow) ball hit with the cue in normal play. In addition, [[Cueball]] is the name explainxkcd uses for the most common xkcd character.)

==== Pollen ====
{{w|Pollen}} is a joke candidate, though people with seasonal allergies may suspect that the universe is genuinely made up entirely of pollen in the springtime.

==== No-See-Ums ====
{{w|Ceratopogonidae|No-See-Ums}} are a family (Ceratopogonidae) of small flies, 1–4 mm long, that can pass through most window screens. Another joke candidate, because dark matter is invisible and the name "no-see-ums" implies that the flies are invisible.

==== Bees ====
Insects of the clade {{w|Bee|Anthophila}} are major pollinators of flowering plants. In recent years {{w|Colony collapse disorder|bees have been disappearing}} at an alarming rate; {{w|The Stolen Earth|Doctor Who explained}} that they are in fact aliens leaving Earth prior to a Dalek invasion.

==== 8-balls ====
In pool, the {{w|Pool (cue sports)|8-ball}} is a black ball numbered 8. It's a pun with Q-ball/cue ball. Unless undetected aliens have discovered billiards and become addicted to it, 8-balls are found only on Earth and are, hence, unlikely dark matter candidates. The 8-ball is also a popular unit of sale for black market pharmaceuticals like cocaine, where it stands for ⅛ ounce (3.5 g). This doesn't make sense as a dark matter candidate either – unless dark matter is hard to detect because it's illegal & trying to avoid the cops.

==== Space cows ====
Cows are {{w|Bovinae|bovines}} extensively farmed on Earth for milk and meat.{{Citation needed}} Although there is folklore concerning cows {{w|Hey diddle diddle|achieving circum-lunar orbits}}, not to mention their appearance on a {{w|Shindig (Firefly)|beloved space western TV show}}, as Muppet cow [http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Natalie Natalie] in the Sesame Street News Flash (and [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceWestern others less-remembered]), they have yet to be found elsewhere in the Universe. In the television show "Too Close for Comfort", one of the characters is the cartoonist of a comic strip called "Cosmic Cow". {{w|Spherical cow|Spherical cows}} (and especially those in a vacuum, as they would essentially be if in space) have also been used (humorously) by physicists needing to simplify some source of mass in a given problem.

==== Obelisks, monoliths, pyramids ====
While those human constructions are huge on a human scale, they're negligible at universe-scale. It would take a large number of such constructions, distributed through space, to replicate the effects of dark matter; while a scenario could be envisioned where enough such constructs existed, with properties and distribution allowing them to match observations, this is obviously not a likely explanation.
They often show up in fiction and pseudo-scientific literature as alien artifacts generating immense unknown power out of nowhere, with the most famous and influential example being the three monoliths from {{w|2001: A Space Odyssey (film)|2001: A Space Odyssey}} (with the largest having a mass of about 500,000 tonnes).

==== Black holes ruled out by: ====
{{w|Black hole|Black holes}} are known to occur in sizes of a few solar masses (about 1030-1031 kg) as remnants of the core of former big stars, as well as in quite large sizes at the centers of galaxies (millions or even billions of solar masses). But recent gravitational wave detections indicate that black holes at 50 or 100 solar masses also exist, though their origin is still not understood. Randall doesn't mention this but some astronomers hope that these could fill at least a part of the gap. While black holes are widely reported to be ruled out as a candidate for dark matter for various reasons Randall has listed, such constraints are based on "monochromatic" mass distributions -- meaning that all such black holes are assumed to have the same mass -- which is considered physically implausible for populations of merging bodies which are known to have vastly different masses. See: [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1709.07467.pdf Primordial Black Holes as Dark Matter (2017)] and [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.05567.pdf Primordial black hole constraints for extended mass functions (2017)] (That this is a common practice in cosmology may be part of the reference to "buzzkill" astronomers.) He rules out all black holes in the range of approximately 1010 kg to 1033 kg even when below some gaps at the bars appear.

Except the last item, all range below the mass of the sun (2x1030 kg) while the smallest known black hole is about four solar masses.
* Gamma rays: If dark matter were black holes of this size, the black holes could be evaporating by the predicted {{w|Hawking radiation}}, and we'd see a buzz of gamma rays from every direction if many of those objects would exist. Nonetheless this radiation is still hypothetical and not been observed on any known black holes. Furthermore those objects would be very small because the Schwarzschild radius of a 1012 kg black hole is approximately 148 fm (1.48×10−13 m), which is between the size of an atom and an atomic nucleus.
* GRB lensing: {{w|Gamma-ray burst|Gamma-ray bursts}} (GRBs) are the brightest events in the universe and have been observed only in distant galaxies. While gravitational microlensing (see below) is an astronomical phenomenon, it doesn't make much sense here. GRBs are short (milliseconds to several hours) and are often detected only by space-borne sensors for gamma-rays -- rarely at any other wavelengths. Measuring lensing effects would be very difficult. This [https://arxiv.org/abs/1406.3102 paper] discusses the probability of detecting lensing effects caused by {{w|Dark matter halo|galactic halo objects}} among the known GRBs given sufficient objects to represent the missing mass.
* Neutron star data: {{w|Neutron star|Neutron stars}} aren't black holes, but they're also very small highly compact objects at about 1.4-2.16 solar masses. While black holes can't be observed directly, neutron stars are detectable in many wavelengths. The number of them gives a clue about the number of black holes close to the mass of the sun, a number which is far too low to make up dark matter.
* Micro lensing: {{w|Gravitational microlensing}} is a gravitational lens effect, (the path of radiation is changed by passing through space bent by nearby mass). This was predicted by Einstein's {{w|General Relativity|Theory of General Relativity}} and was first confirmed in 1919 during a solar eclipse, when a star which was nearly in line with the sun appeared more distant to the sun than usual. Astronomers have found many so called {{w|Einstein ring|Einstein rings}} or Einstein crosses where a massive object in front of other galaxies bends the light toward us. Those massive objects may be black holes, but the number is far too low to explain dark matter.
* Solar system stability: Our {{w|Solar system|solar system}} is 4.5 billion years old and has been very stable since shortly after its formation. If not, we wouldn't exist. If dark objects at 1024 to 1030 kg (mass of Earth up to mass of Sun) accounted for dark matter and were distributed throughout galaxies, there should be many of them in the vicinity of our solar system and the system wouldn't be stable at all.
* Buzzkill Astronomers: Black holes above a certain size are thought by some astronomers to be impossible to miss, due to the effects they have on nearby matter. At the mass of some 1030 kg there must be many supernova remnants we still haven't found. Black holes of about 1035 kg have long been considered dark matter candidates by a minority group of cosmologists, as could be seen here [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1001.2308.pdf Primordial Black Holes as All Dark Matter (2010)] and the Milky Way's first discovered intermediate mass black hole falling in this range shown here [https://www.nao.ac.jp/en/news/science/2016/20160115-nro.html Signs of Second Largest Black Hole in the Milky Way].
Not covered by this comic are {{w|Massive compact halo object|massive astrophysical compact halo objects (MACHOs)}} composed of hard to detect dim objects like black holes, neutron stars, brown dwarfs, and other objects composed of normal {{w|Baryon|baryonic}} matter. Nevertheless observations have shown that the total amount of baryonic matter in our universe on large scales is much smaller than it would be needed to explain all the measured gravitational effects.

==== Maybe those orbit lines on space diagrams are real and very heavy ====
Diagrams of our solar system (or any planetary system) often show lines representing the elliptical paths the planet takes around its sun. These lines don't show real objects, though. Astronomers just draw them on pictures of the solar system to show where the planets move. If you draw a line on a map to give someone directions, that line isn't an object in real life; it's just on the map. If these lines were real, they would be ''huge'' (Earth's would be 940 million km long (2π AU) and Neptune's would be 28 ''billion'' kilometers long). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0 Powers of Ten (1977)] gives a good sense of just how large these orbit lines need to be in order to be visible in space diagrams. If these orbit lines were also very dense, they would have a huge mass and could possibly account for the missing 85% of the mass in the universe. But they would also constantly be impaling the planets, including the Earth, which would probably be a problem.{{Citation needed}} Their mass would also affect planetary motions in ways which we would detect. A related worry about space travel was expressed in previous centuries; it was thought that the planets were embedded within {{w|Celestial spheres|crystal shells}} (spheres or Platonic solids), and a rocket into space could smash the shells and send planets plummeting to Earth. Another joke candidate.

==== Title text ====
The title text refers to the fact that space is just vast emptiness where a little bit of dirt could be overlooked. Actually the mean density of detectable matter in the universe, according to NASA, is equivalent to roughly [https://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_matter.html 1 proton per 4 cubic meters]. And because this matter is mostly located in galaxies -- and inside there in stars and clouds -- the space between is even more empty. For comparison, one gram of hydrogen consists of {{w|Avogadro constant|6.022 × 1023 atoms}}. Like at home wiping with a cleaning cloth in which we can see the dirt that wasn't clearly visible on the surface we have wiped, Randall believes that some few atoms more per cubic meter could stay undetected in the same way. This isn't true because in the space between galaxies astronomers can detect matter as it spreads over thousands or millions of cubic light years. Atoms can't hide; there is always radiation.

==Transcript==
:Dark matter candidates:
:[A line graph is shown and labeled at left quarter in eV and further to the right in g together with some prefixes.]
:[The labels read:]
:µeV, meV, eV, keV, MeV, GeV, TeV, 10-18kg, ng, µg, mg, g, kg, TON, 106kg, 1012kg, 1018kg, 1024kg, 1030kg

:[All items are shown in bars ranging between two approximately values:]
:< 1 µeV - 10 meV: Axion

:1 eV - 10 keV: Sterile neutrino

:0.5 MeV (exactly): Electrons painted with space camouflage

:10 GeV - 10 TeV: Neutralino

:100 TeV - 10-17 kg: Q-ball

:1 ng - 100 ng: Pollen

:0.1 mg - 1 mg: No-See-Ums

:10-1 g (exactly): Bees

:10 g - 100 g: 8-balls

:100 kg - TON: Space cows

:TON - 109 kg: Obelisks, monoliths, pyramids

:109 kg - 1033 kg: Black holes ruled out by:
::109 kg - 1013 kg: Gamma rays
::1013 kg - 1017 kg: GRB lensing
::1015 kg - 1022 kg: Neutron star data
::1021 kg - 1030 kg: Micro lensing
::1024 kg - 1030 kg: Solar system stability
::1030 kg - 1033 kg: Buzzkill astronomers

:1033 kg - >1036 kg: Maybe those orbit lines on space diagrams are real and very heavy

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Science]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Astronomy]]
[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Bees]]
[[Category:Animals]]

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T04:01:11Z

172.70.91.128: /* Explanation */ clarified

{{comic
| number = 1337
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PROXY BOT IN NO WAY CORRELATED WITH THE ORIGINAL BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is one used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent.

For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take many years, so you might test for a "proxy outcome" instead, like whether it prevents loss of bone density or damage to cells, to see if the drug is making a difference. Hairy is dismissing the question of whether this is the right variable to study as too expensive to answer. In reality, choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy is showing Cueball a poster of a graph]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.

:[Cut the panel in half so you can only see Hairy and the poster]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.

:[Cueball and Hairy are standing with the poster out of frame]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

2652: Proxy Variable

2022-07-30T03:58:24Z

172.70.91.128: more explanation

{{comic
| number = 1337
| date = July 29, 2022
| title = Proxy Variable
| image = proxy_variable.png
| titletext = Our work has produced great answers. Now someone just needs to figure out which questions they go with.
}}

__NOTOC__

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a PROXY BOT IN NO WAY CORRELATED WITH THE ORIGINAL BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In statistics, a {{w|proxy variable}} is one used as a stand-in for one or more other variables that are difficult to measure. In order to be useful as such, proxy variables must be correlated with what they are intended to represent.

For example, a drug might aim to reduce deaths from a slow-acting disease. But testing if it reduces deaths might take years, so you might test for a "proxy outcome" instead, like whether it prevents loss of bone density or damage to cells, to see if the drug is making a difference. Hairy is dismissing the question of whether this is the right variable to study as too expensive to answer. In reality, choosing the wrong proxy variable might make the research irrelevant, or as the title text suggests, answer the wrong question.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Hairy is showing Cueball a poster of a graph]
:Hairy: We want to study this variable, but it's too hard to observe.

:[Cut the panel in half so you can only see Hairy and the poster]
:Hairy: So we're studying this proxy variable.

:[Cueball and Hairy are standing with the poster out of frame]
:Cueball: Is it correlated with the other variable?
:Hairy: Look, we don't have the funding to answer every little question.

{{comic discussion}}

User talk:Kynde

2022-07-28T16:43:38Z

172.70.91.128: /* Table of tips? */

== Cueball references ==
Hi, please do not remove the Cueball references here. He is a standard character. The category [[:Category:Comics featuring Cueball]] gives just an overview about all comics showing this stick figure. And just one is him, not defined by Randall but by us. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:10, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
:But who should define who Cueball is? You? I could see him as both here. And somebody did. You have just corrected back so that the Cueball in the explain is switched to the other charachter in the transcript. At least one of these should then be changed to match the other. It is thus also clear that people have different views of what Cueball stands for. Is he the one trolling, or is he the one who knows which movie Blade Runner is? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:35, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
:By the way - I did not remove the reference to the chategory - but only in the text as described above. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

== Minor tags on edits ==
Also, a minor concern, but please be more sparing in your use of "minor" tags on edits. Addition of 1200 characters (e.g. . . m Talk:1496: Art Project‎; 20:04 . . (+1,240)‎ . . ‎Kynde, or . . m 1497: New Products‎; 19:12 . . (-419)‎ . . ‎Kynde →‎Explanation: It does not fit into category four! See new test. I also deleted a lot of text, that already was written below, and was basically the same as the one stille) is NOT minor. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 21:22, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
::When adding a new comment to the talk page I newer see this as a major change. This i a discussion not a change to the explanation!. I do not believe it was a big change removing the text you wrote, when all of it basically was written below. Try and read your version, and see that it was more or less double. Also I had already once removed the reference to the fourth category. If the guy has signed up he have no problems with this company. Also it is mentioned that the fourth category is not a company he is afraid off, but just someone they do not like. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

I like what you did at [[1402: Harpoons]]. Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.153|173.245.54.153]]
:You're welcome - I did it based on your comment [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 03:41, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

==[[980: Money]]==
Hey, you've done an amazing job on the money comic's transcript, but the explanation page is still marked as incomplete. Is there actually anything left to be done on it? Thanks! [[User:Davak72|Davak72]] ([[User talk:Davak72|talk]]) 03:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
:Thanks allot. I have replied on the Money page where you repeated the above. I can even remember the number although it was some time since I did the transcript. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

== Merge Cueball & Rob ==

You seem to have changed some comics in which formerly more than one cueball appeared to make it such that none were called cueball (e.g. Orb Hammer). But many persist, see transcripts in:
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1405:_Meteor
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/192:_Working_for_Google
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/525:_I_Know_You%27re_Listening
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/187:_The_Familiar
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/79:_Iambic_Pentameter
http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/65:_Banter

We should probably seek broader consensus before rewriting all these transcripts. There seems to me to be a general trend to name one "Cueball" and call the others "Friend" or somesuch in these cases and I'm concerned that you seem to want to singlehandedly rewrite all that convention. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 21:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:It is typically the first who writes the transcript who decides who of the Cueballs (or Megans) he feel represents the real Cueball. However, there is no real behavior of Cueball. So who should decide. I could also change these transcripts so it becomes the other character who becomes Cueball, because I think the first transcripter did it wrong. This was exactly what happened with the two Megan-like comics. First it was Megan and Danish. Then unidentified girl and Megan. Then Megan and unidentified girl, then two Megan like girls with short and long hair and finally you reverted it to my first ide: Unidentified girl and Megan. So thanks for showing me these six double Cueball comics. I will change asap. And as I answered your comment on [[1496: Art Project]] Rob is already listed as part of the category for Comics featuring Cueball: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Comics_featuring_Rob and this is listed as the first entry when going to the page for Category:Comics featuring Cueball: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Comics_featuring_Cueball Thus he should not be merged--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:: Can you please add this discussion here [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Merge_Cueball_.26_Rob]. I have refrained from making these sort of substantial changes and want to seek a broader consensus. Please use the community forum to seek such consensus before making major unilateral changes like that. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 21:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:::Done with interests --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:02, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:: there are dozens of multiple-Cueball comments. Please don't change them to "man 1", "man 2" until we can reach a braoder consensus. I will not be changing them to "Rob" without consensus. This is not something to be done all at once and making that many changes will prompt me to request that an admin freeze your account. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 21:27, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:::I was about to write this before your comment no. two. So this was a reply to your previous comment: "I can post it there, but these changes has been underway a long time for almost a year. But it is hard to find these comics as I do not go through them just to find incidences. How long have you been active in xkcd. I can see your page has been created today, but maybe you were active long before that?"--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
::::This is a comment to your next comment: "It is very hard to threaten someone like that already. I have been making these changes before, and by the way never to man 1 or man 2. I have been one of the top contributers for more than a year. I hope this is not just because I reverted one of your contributions to Mondays comic? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:::::I didn't want to threaten. I think consistent style is important, and general style I see is in multi-Cueball comics, one is ID'd as Cueball and others are "Friend", etc. Anyone unilaterally changing an established style should seek consensus first.
:::::Additionally, I think your undo on my edit actually improved the explanation.
:::::Finally, if you know how to solicit more opinions on the matter at hand, please let me know (or do it). Thanks! [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 23:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
::::::Thanks on the edit appraisal. As I wrote on the talk page, yours was also much better phrased the second time. I do not know how to get anyone to go read your comment except by giving them the message like you did with me. Or putting a link to it from the talk page of the double Megan comic, and maybe on some of the double Cueball comics too. I did not understand the "solicit more opinions" at first (why I wrote that last part in my comment below "how many will read"). So you do realize, I can see now, that not many will. By the way I'm [[Danish]]... That is, I'm neither a mean girl or a pastry cake, but from Denmark. And although I'm, really good at English for everyday use, it is not by far a language I can understand everything. But suddenly I got your message.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
My only point is we need to wait until consensus is reached before undoing years of precedent in Cueball naming. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 22:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
:Well as I have made fairly clear there is no consensus. Because it is up to the first one who writes the transcript to decide who is the friend. And this often leads to discussion or changes forth and back (like we just saw with two Megans) since people have different opinion on how Cueball should behave, since they do not know that Cueball can behave anyway Randall needs him to. Often he reflects Randall's intelligence, but just as often he is a prick behaving horribly towards girls etc. So if there are two, one good and one bad, you cannot say the good one is Cueball. And how many do you think reads your post? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:43, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I have had a look at the comics you have listed. Here are my comments:
*[[1405:_Meteor]]
**Here I would have changed - since it is believed that Cueball often represents Randall's version of himself - especially when it is his hobby. Of course it is then Randall who is pedantic, and thus Cueball. So I would change the Cueball reference. So here we could have a stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
*[[525:_I_Know_You%27re_Listening]]
**Here there is only one Cueball speaking. And the other is listening in. So here I would no object so much. Maybe I would mention that the other looks like Cueball.
*[[192:_Working_for_Google]]
**Here I would have changed - since I would think that Cueball should have the most interesting story, and also that this Cueball is Randall as it is known that Randall has an interest in Google and has also been cheated by their aptitude test (so much that he did the famous [[356: Nerd Sniping]]). So also here I would change the Cueball reference. So again stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
*[[187:_The_Familiar]]
**Here I would have changed - since I would thing that Cueball should be the one always interested in computers. Not the other way. I know there are other comics where he enjoys nature. But Also a lot where he enjoys computers out of hand and math etc. So again I would have changed the Cueball reference. So again stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
*[[79:_Iambic_Pentameter]]
**Here I agree with the Cueball = Randall - it's Randall my hobby and thus the one with the Hobby is Cueball. But I would still prefer they are not named. some might argue against me on the hobby, saying the Cueball with the hobby is "Randall" so the other Cueball is "Cueball". Thus once more editing war. But I would not start it. But still probably mention that the Cueball with a hobby is Randall.
*[[65:_Banter]]
**What can I say. The first is called Cueball the other is not. They have the same amount of text, and they are obviously both gay and missing out. I would definitely loose the Cueball reference here.
That is my ten cents about these six examples. Maybe we should create a category called multiple Cueballs. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
:Note that I have not changed any of these... yet. But maybe I should revert those three I think is plain wrong, so the Cueball and friend is changed. Then we can see if anyone changes back? ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

:::I advise waiting. If you want to enact 4, go for it, but then put in the discussion a [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Merge_Cueball_.26_Rob link] to our discussion for '''all''' the changes you make so hopefully someone besides you and me goes to that page and weighs in.

To answer your question, I've read xkcd for years (I started reading regularly around the time there were ~500 total comics), lurked on explainxkcd and made anonymous minor edits for most of that time. I set up an account in July 2013, when I began making more regular edits.

I recognize that the issue has a large amount of inertia. My point is precisely that there are 9 "Rob" comics and countless Cueball. But, as I stated on the page, there is ample evidence that the same character (Black Hat's friend/roommate, Megan's boyfriend) '''is''' named Rob. I haven't done a count, but I suspect that "Megan" is named in the comic fewer than 9 times, but characters of her appearance are '''all''' called "Megan".

Yes, multiple Megans triggered the idea that's been brewing in my mind since someone (not me) made an anonymous comment on a relatively recent Rob comic [1168: tar]. Since I read that it's been sitting in my mind, but I haven't wanted to make an issue. However, the asymmetry between Megan/Cutie and Rob/Cueball grates for me and I want to urge the community here to evaluate critically whether it is the right thing or an inappropriate historical artifact. Years ago, [Cutie] was abolished (redirects now to [Megan]), I think it's objectively appropriate to make a symmetrical arrangement for Rob/Cueball (hence my options 2 & 3 in the public discussion thread).

For now, if you want to go changing all those comics go ahead. I won't argue or revert, but I request that you put the following (or something close to it) in the discussion of all the comics you change "I've removed the name 'Cueball' from this and several other comics that have multiple Cueball's in them as per my position on the issue currently under discussion at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Merge_Cueball_.26_Rob if you support this change or disagree with it, please weigh in on that discussion thread."

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from more users. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 00:04, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

::::Dear Djbrasier
:(By the way my name is Kynde - that is both my nick and my middle name).
:Thanks for this very open talk. I like you much better now ;-)
:If I do change any of these I will do as you ask. It is not like I have forever to do these changes, although I for sure use too much time already on explain... I think I will add the category:Comics with multiple Cueballs. What do you think of the name if I do (and if I do then maybe also make one with Category:Comics where Megan is named Megan. Please tell me you can think of a better name for that one ;-) I only know of the three now mentioned on [[Megan]]s page.
:As you can see om my page, I have only used explain xkcd since late 2013. So you have been member longer than me by some months. I did not read xkcd before that - became fascinated with the What if section on xkcd and when I finished with those I turned to the comic. But found that I failed to understand quite a few, and thus searched and found this page. I have read them as they come out since then, and then also began reading from no. 1. But since I always look in this page for the explanation and like to contribute I only progress very slowly. Recently I have reached [[540: Base System]] where I have made several improvements additions and corrections. And that is as far as I have reached reading straight fro no. 1. But I have of course used the cross referencing and thus read many in between that and those from October 2013.
:Regards Kynde --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

::Happy to have the discussion and to get to wiki-know you. I definitely see your points. I added a few comments and links to our public discussion in the hopes that, over time, it will attract more users to the community portal discussion. I suspect it will take some months for enough users to weigh in that we have a reasonable consensus. I think that if you remove "Cueball" from some of the comics you mentioned above and put a link to the portal page in the discussion block of those comments, that will prompt community input.
::Cheers,
::DJ [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I also added incomplete tags to a few comics in which I think a strong argument can be made that "Cueball" is really Rob, despite his name not showing up (Boombox & Cover-up) [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 13:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
:Well I disagree again. See the talk pages. But then it is out for discussion.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I have changed several of the Multiple Cueballs comics as you said was OK with you. See the new caregory. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

== xkcloud permalink usernames ==

You said "The user name and user picture stay the same though.", [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1506:_xkcloud&diff=prev&oldid=88207 An Anon] had mentioned that [http://xkcd.com/1506/#post/3c34fb48-1a07-51d2-a81d-5257a3681024 3c34fb48-1a07-51d2-a81d-5257a3681024] had the name "Lauren Ibsen Dolores Amit" and changed to "Margaret5", then by the time I looked at it, it had "Virginia2006". It still has "Virginia2006" now, but since it has changed twice I wouldn't assume it is now permanent. Due to this, I [[1506:_xkcloud/Table of Permalinks|haven't been saving the usernames]]. Could you confirm that you see Virginia2006? Perhaps it's different for each user. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 21:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:Yes I did see Virginia2006. I think it may change some times, but then suddenly it could become stable? The permalink used on the main page of the explain, was mine. I noted it was Mark Zuckerberg. But this has changed. But now I think it is stuck on: Destiny1983 and always with the skating "Megan". Can you confirm this: http://xkcd.com/1506/#post/50b47c70-3a7c-504d-bcc0-60597338e999 . Cool that you have collected all these images. Can we put the link under the permalink section. As you can see I'm trying to completely revise the page so it is easier to find the explain and then only see the detail if you are interested. Hope you like these changes --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::Yeah, I see Destiny1983 on that one too. I like the changes, they make everything much clearer. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 21:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I was trying to make it easier to write some extra info on your permalink page, and deleted most of them. Luckily they are not deleted permanently. But the page is so big I have trouble loading it. I try to repair my mistake, but else please do so for me, and sorry in advance. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:45, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

::::NP, <tt>&action=history</tt> is a life-saver. I was going to suggest using <tt>&action=edit&section=0</tt>, but I see you've already added a description heading. It also lags pretty badly for me so I expect I'll have to stop at 10000, and I'm already up to 8444 since my last edit to the page. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 22:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::Yes I think I fixed it but I had to split it in three uploads. How many different pictures do you think there are. I guess some off them are the same? (And same for text). Maybe the last part can be seen by sorting the table. But does the image also have the same name when used more than once? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:33, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::Well, I know of 1419 unique images so far. Yes, both images and text are reused for different permalinks, some come up a lot more frequently than others. If you click the heading, you can sort by either image or text, which will group them together. It's kind of interesting to see different captions for the same image. If you mean the same username, I haven't checked. I also haven't checked whether the same pair of image and text ever appear together as different permalinks, I'll check that <s>eventually</s>, <s>later</s>, ''right now''... nope. I imagine the prompt never even ''suggests'' a caption which is already associated with an image. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 23:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::I hit the 2mb page limit at 10217 permalinks, out of the 15000+ I have found, so I've reduced the table to only show each image and text once. As in, ''either'' the image or text once, so there will be a couple of duplicate images and text. So what I said previously about sorting to see different captions for the same image no longer applies, but the page will be more manageable this way. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 13:53, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

::::::: So you think that it will not be possible for anyone to add the same image to the same caption, because this caption will never again come up with this image or the other way around? I can see yo have removed the ? where they where something else like turtles... Nice. What about all the links below? Are they just the other 10.000 links not associated with a new image or caption, just a different combination? If so maybe this should be made clear. You could make a new section heading for them. Would it be possible to list them in any other way, or is this to save space? Alternatively you could make a new subpage with extra permalinks for further study. We of course both know that no one will ever read these again ;-) But nice work anyway. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::: So far, I've never found the same image and same caption, but I'll keep checking, as I'm still storing all of the information, just not posting the full list to the wiki now. The other links at the bottom are all 15000+ permalinks I've found, good point about making that more clear. It might also be a good idea to list them on another separate page to save space, but they're not for further study, as I have all the images and captions associated with them, there just isn't room to display all of the information, because it would currently take 3mb+. Regarding the symbols, I was previously pasting my javascript output into my text editor to format them, but now I have my script format them for me, so the symbols are preserved. - and it's also a lot easier for me. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 14:29, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

:::::::: Well, I've hit the 2 megabyte limit again, so it looks like we'll have to put the table on one page and the list of links on another. Any suggestions for the page titles? -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 15:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::: You are crazy :-) My suggestion is that you create a new page called Table of Permalink (with the explanation at the top the same, but now linking to the old page, and vice versa for the old page to the new). Then let the list of permalink stay on the old page. And move the table to the new page. Finally, look at what pages direct to the old page, and redirect them to the new, only leaving link to the old page from the new one. The table is most important. The problem with your table is that it is too big for anyone to load... Maybe there should even be another page in between. Which is called - a selection of permalink. And then with link to the full table and links, with a fair warning about huge amount of data (Big data.). My explorer just went down trying to load the page (or maybe I'm just too impatient?) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:36, 24 April 2015 (UTC) (Ah, now it is finished loading...)
:::::::::: Thanks. I haven't tried it in internet explorer, but the table loads okay with Chrome on my laptop I bought 7 years ago. Now that the pages are split, it might load faster for you. -[[User:452|452]] ([[User talk:452|talk]]) 18:58, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

==[[1608: Hoverboard/Transcript|Hoverboard Transcript]]==

Sorry to ask about such a minor thing, just curious about why the man on the raised plateau can't be a woman. Elsewhere in the comic Darth Vader is seen explaining Steven Universe to someone. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.43|108.162.221.43]] 13:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
:Hi - it cold be. But to me it looks like a family. But to be honest I had not expected anyone to change it, and did not notice before I had copy pasted some text in from the document I write the transcript in. But hopefully at some time this family (or whatever) becomes part of the effort to explain the entire comic. My guess is that someone will know who it is - that they are from some TV series or movie. In that case it will become clear if it is (as I assumed) a family with mom and dad and two children or if it is a lesbian couple or something entirely different... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

::The family resembles the main characters of Steven Universe, a cartoon(the characters being three women and a child) The explanation page also lists them as such(Steven Universe and the Crystal Gems - (x: 551664, y: -567383). [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.64|173.245.55.64]] 21:03, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Perfect thanks. Then is makes sense with the Vader reference. Is it the boy who is Steven? And is the low girl also a grown woman? I will look it up but thanks for answering. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
::::Fixed the transcript. Some of the link I put in, is not supposed to be there, but may be moved once they are explained in the main article.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

== Hair Bun "Girl" ==

Hi Kynde, I noticed you created the character page for "Hair Bun Girl". This naming convention is inconsistent with most of the other characters named here, e.g. Cueball, Ponytail, Hairy, et al. Beret Guy is a potential counterexample, but the words "guy" and "man" don't have the same relationship as "girl" and "woman". Partly for consistency, and partly for simple feminism, I'd like to open a conversation about changing the character's name please. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
:I think it is exactly the same as guy vs. girl. Hair Bun Woman is just too cumbersome. But if you can find a name like Ponytail that fits then by all means. Hairbun just doesn't do it for me. But I do not have any specific feelings for this name, I just found that she was used too often to not have a character page. So I will not take offence against you trying to find a better name through a conversation. Contraty to for instance Megan, which once was Cuetie (sexistick I think), it will not be so hard to change Hair Bun Girl's name to something else, but still she has just reached comic no. 20 so it is not easy to find all the references. Are you ready to do that job if you do get a new name for her? Because else it is just semantics --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks, appreciate it. Yes I am ready to do the job. What would you recommend for next steps? Should I raise the issue at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Coordination? [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:06, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Your welcome, and good luck. Try to see [[explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#Merge_Cueball_.26_Rob|this post]] regarding the naming convention of [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]] which much to my joy did not end up in altering anything, but they were "old" names, Hair Bun Girl is new. You could post you suggestion there. And maybe make a note at the top of [[Hair Bun Girl]]'s page? (You can write Notice as a template just like the incomplete. Check out this [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cueball&oldid=92611 old version of Cueball page history]). Now that I think about it '''Hairbun''' is probably as good a name as [[Ponytail]]. So I would think that would be a decent proposal for a change. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:08, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
::::Okay, process started. Thank you for the good wishes and guidance. [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 04:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

=== Girl With Hairbun? ===

I have identified several comics that have a girl (clearly a child) similar in appearance to Hairbun.
Examples include [[1104: Feathers]], [[1352: Cosmologist on a Tire Swing]] and [[1370: President]]. Would these people be included under Hairbun? Most of them are not marked as such. And what are the requirments to make a new character? I think this girl has appeared rather often. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.42}}
:Hi. If you look at the description for [[Hairbun]] it clearly states that she is an adult as are Ponytail and Cueball etc. So no, these examples should not be included in Hairbun category. If you look at the last entry on the talk page of President I suggested a children category. But I would agree that a category with curious girl or science girl could be relevant. She is also in [[1611: Baking Soda and Vinegar]] for instance. If there are about five comics that could go in a new category it is just to create it. The naming is important though. See othere categories for what to write on the category page. I have made several including Hairbun --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:12, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
::Thanks for your input. I think I will be creating this category soon. Since most of the names seem to refer to the hairstyles (they are recognizable) I think I'll be going with the name "Double Bun Girl".

== Marking edits as minor edits ==
Hey, I noticed that you mark lot of your edits as minor edits while most of them aren't. For example, [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1645%3A_Toasts&diff=112997&oldid=112996 this]] and probably [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1645:_Toasts&diff=next&oldid=113008 this]] too constitute as a minor edit, but these - [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1645:_Toasts&diff=next&oldid=112997 [1]]], [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1645:_Toasts&diff=next&oldid=113003 [2]]], [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1645:_Toasts&diff=next&oldid=113009 [3]]], etc. aren't minor edits. Refer to the wikipedia guidelines for minor edits - {{w|Help:Minor_edit}}.
::Examples include typographical corrections, formatting and presentational changes, and rearrangements of text without modification of its content. A minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute.
Basically, if you are adding/removing even a little bit of content, it is not minor. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 23:31, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and how in the world is [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Thing_Explainer&curid=16286&diff=113034&oldid=113033 this ]] and [[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1608:_Hoverboard&curid=16986&diff=113019&oldid=113013 this ]] minor !! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 23:47, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
:Sorry about that. I just updated my settings where it had been set to default: "Mark all edits minor by default". If I by mistake click OK to an update before clicking that off it was to late. But now it will be the other way instead. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
::Cool, no worries. It happens. I was just surprised that everything was marked minor. Anyway, keep up the good work. I see that you're finishing up all the incomplete explanations and improving comics in general. Great work ! :) [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.216|199.27.130.216]] 01:04, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the support, nice to get some feedback. Also great that someone mentions when you are doing something the wrong way. I had only limited experience with wiki pages before signing up here, and I had not read the wiki page on minor edits, but now I have. How come you have chosen not to have an account? Seems like you also make several comments and changes... which is great ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:11, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

== Please create the discussion page for today's comic. ==
Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 15:02, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:Well just did that (for [[1652: Conditionals]]) but not because I saw this comment, just before. I guess it is not possible for no registered users to create pages? Well I fulfilled your wish before I knew about it ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:05, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

== Moving comments around ==
Please do not move people's comments into unrelated discussions without asking them, and if you do, make sure the timestamps in the reply chain aren't out of order. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 20:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
:I expect you were referring to [[Talk:1659: Tire Swing]]? Well all comments I moved were regarding the same question of who the girls looked like, and they should have been posted as replies to the first. There were no time stamp on the first comment and your post asking if they were children were posted straight under a post about if they were Megan and Hair Bun girl or Thelma and Louise. So I do believe your comment belong under that statement. But fine by my that it just stand beneath instead of being indented. The time stamp of all comments seem to be in time order as I see it. It would get really confusing or I would have to make the same reply three times if they were not together. The comments in between were not at all related and there should be no confusion. So I think it made the discussion page much more useful what I did.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
::Well I don't know about the other users, but I know for a fact that mine wasn't in response to the first one. I don't even know what the first one said, I just moved it from the explanation to comment page. And mine was posted immediately after it because I was chronologically the second comment made. I had no reason to wait (interestingly, you moved someone else's comment so that I was replying to it, even though it didn't exist when I posted.) [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 00:41, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
:::I cannot see that what you say is true about moving your comment. I just checked the history and here is what I found: 
'''This was what it looked like before my changes:''' 
--- 
the women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new?
sorry for commenting here, but I do not have rights to create a new page, which seems to be necessary for posting the fire comment. Will move once the comment section is created.

I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) given the looks of their hair {{unsigned|Chichak|March 23, 2016}}

I think they're children [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe they got the truck from Black Hat's garage? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have yet to use a tire swing that was made from a worn tire (worn by the road not by swinging). From my experience, expired tires used by automobiles typically have sharp metal protruding from the rubber. This would make a dangerous tire swing. I thought landscaping (rubber mulch) and playgrounds was the preferred recycling method for used tires?--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 15:35, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

The first one certainly looks like Hair Bun, but the second one (which in in the explanation is presented as Megan) has a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character, perhaps? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.166|108.162.218.166]] 17:05, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
 --- 
'''This what it looked like after:''' 
--- 
the women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new?
sorry for commenting here, but I do not have rights to create a new page, which seems to be necessary for posting the fire comment. Will move once the comment section is created.
:I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) given the looks of their hair {{unsigned|Chichak|March 23, 2016}}
::I think they're children [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
:::The first one certainly looks like Hair Bun, but the second one (which in in the explanation is presented as Megan) has a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character, perhaps? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.166|108.162.218.166]] 17:05, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
::::As the tire comes from a truck and it's diameter is more than half the height of these small girls they are definitely kids (not that Randall could not have made adults make a swing as like in [[150]]). Also this makes it much more funny that they both stole a car and beat up an angry adult. And now they are going all environmental after wards. So they are not Megan (which looks nothing like a curly haired girl) and also not Hair Bun Girl as it is defined that these characters are adults. There are many stories using kids and they will never represent Cueball, Megan or Ponytail etc. Those with hats are for instance never drawn small! Have thus corrected the explanation. But it still seems to miss much more on the environmental issue which is the subject/point of the comic if not the joke --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe they got the truck from Black Hat's garage? [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
:Then they would have lost the fight: [[433: Journal 5]]! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:22, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have yet to use a tire swing that was made from a worn tire (worn by the road not by swinging). From my experience, expired tires used by automobiles typically have sharp metal protruding from the rubber. This would make a dangerous tire swing. I thought landscaping (rubber mulch) and playgrounds was the preferred recycling method for used tires?--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 15:35, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
:I think you are correct. We have one for our kids (though it sucked and we took it down again) and that was a brand new tire, but not one I think would be suitable for any car though. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:22, 23 March 2016 (UTC) 
--- 
'''As can be seen'''
:::I have only moved one comment up, and that was not yours! That you did not check that there already seemed to be two comments above yours, about the appearance of the girls, doesn't mean that it would not make sense to pool all these questions and comments regarding exactly this topic together to give just one answer. And as you can see from the above '''I did NOT move your comments''', but I moved someone else's comment, in between the first and second of your comments, to be able to reply to all four things already written about the girls (ie. 1) The women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new? 2) I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) 3) I think they're children and 4) ... a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character?) All that was what I replied to, now possible to do in one go right beneath all four remarks. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
::::There was only one comment before mine, and it was 2 paragraphs. You moving the second half into a reply of the first half caused some of the confusion here [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 06:54, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::OK now I understand, so it was not your comment I moved, but the previous comment that I split in two (that was a mistake). That you did not answer to the comment above was of course not clear since it was on the same subject. Again this, as I understand it, was caused by someone posting a comment in the explanation, and you moving it into the comments section (which was fine, but made it hard to find out who posted what.) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:58, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

== Gardening ==

You mention "three links to images that did not work" in my "garden store for deer" entry. [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:UploadStash/thumb/13xmd97bimg0.n2wbws.5455.png/739px-13xmd97bimg0.n2wbws.5455.png These]
[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:UploadStash/thumb/13xn667h2jlw.jonmk1.5455.png/739px-13xn667h2jlw.jonmk1.5455.png three]
[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:UploadStash/thumb/13xod68rb29s.7fj65u.5455.png/739px-13xod68rb29s.7fj65u.5455.png links]
all work for me; they are images I tried to upload, scaled as large as the server would allow (739x461). Somehow I can upload images but not create image pages (also the spam protection is still triggered, so creating this account seems to accomplish nothing). It's very strange that the server has stored them but won't allow anyone else to view them (after logging out, it tells me I "must be logged in to upload files" instead of displaying the images). Someone should rescue the images from wherever they reside on the server.

The "face" I referred to (the second image) is really a cluster of leaves and branches: the bottom cluster of the rightmost tree looks like a head in profile, with curly hair, an eye, a grinning mouth, and a prominent nose. The two rightmost trees started with no branches (first image), but grew several when I placed a light above them. I moved the light so the face wouldn't be destroyed and tried to grow branches on the lower trunks. The third image is essentially the same as what you uploaded today.

Regarding Megan's office furniture: I'd actually pruned her second wand whenever it appeared, and then the bird took its place. [[User:.42|.42]] ([[User talk:.42|talk]]) 15:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
:Hi .42 First I think it take a few days (three) before you are allowed to create new pages to fight off spam boots that we have had problems with. I cannot see you images I get the following message:
:'''Internal Server Error'''
:'''This file (13xmd97bimg0.n2wbws.5455.png) doesn't belong to the current user.'''
:Cool that you have logged in as a user, although poor name ;-) On the other hand if you are a fan of Hitchhikers Guide then I guess it would be cool enough by the way. I'm happy to see that I finally get a chance to prune some of my gardens after several upsets since the comic came out. If I can help you with the images let me know. Maybe you can post them somewhere else and I can find upload them for you? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

::I'll try to upload tomorrow, then. I don't know where the server found the .42 IP address — that isn't my address! It's ''really weird'' that it chose this number. [[User:.42|.42]] ([[User talk:.42|talk]]) 16:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Have you seen libra's [http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=114415&start=480#p3954408 purple light] gardens? [[User:.42|.42]] ([[User talk:.42|talk]]) 22:58, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
:No I had not. I like the stilt on platform up in tree. I did not know this could happen. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:24, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

== [[1703: Juno|NASA versus the press]] ==
Hi Kynde. I'm afraid I disagree. It seems pretty clear to me that the question about the tip-off comes from NASA. I've added a topic to the talk page, where I explain my reasoning, and where this should be discussed if you still disagree. Thanks! [[User:Garik|Garik]] ([[User talk:Garik|talk]]) 16:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
:Yes I still disagree. To me it seems like a continuation of the conference and it is now the press to speak. And given that I knew Juno to be related to Jupiter but not that she was the daughter of Saturn (and given the reason for the naming in the real world) I would not say that the name in any way would lead anyone to take it as a hint for going to Saturn. But great to discuss it. Will post this on the [[Talk:1703:_Juno|talk page]] too. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:21, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

== 1712: Politifact ==
Hi, I'm the BOT and I'm BORG...

...nevertheless your enhancement to the transcript was too much. And I think your enhancements to the explain section is also overrunning the target.

But I just only did revert the transcript. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
:HI BORG... :/
:I Highly disagree with your changes.
:A transcript serves several functions:
#To make it possible to find out what any text/characters reads, even if it is hard to read in the comic.
#To make a description of what happens in the images. This has two purposes:
##So people with eye disabilities can find out what the comic is about. So here a full description of the comic is needed apart from the text.
##So it is possible to search the comic for info on the content, like a woman with a hat with a white tag.
#Finally it is great if the transcript represents the way it is written in the comic as close as possible including colors (which should also be described in the text for those that cannot see them selves). So tables, colors and formatting is fine. If the text then is harder to read it is possible to copy paste it.
:I can see there may have been a bit of explanation in that I wrote about what Megan did in the previous panel, but that is not enough to just undo the whole thing.
:I will reinsert the transcript and if you disagree then lets discuss either on that comic or in a general fora on what a transcript should contain.
:Regards, just Kynde. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:16, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

== Follow-Up on that "Random Chat" ==
Hey dude! Uh... wow this is awkward. You said hi to me in the random chat on my user page. I said hi. Then we never said anything else to each other again. xD --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 16:07, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
:Hi Jay. Not so awkward. :-) I mean you just said thanks, and thus did not really initiate any chat. Do you have anything in mind? Like something to be improved here on explain? Something larger maybe that could need discussion. Or anything else... Problem is of course that when I chat to you here, you do not get any reminder like when I chat on your page and visa versa. So I will make a post on your page that I have answered here... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:04, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
::Well, by that, I just meant a simple random chat. Like a "hey! how are you doing? that's nice... what do you like to do in your free time..?" kind of chat. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 14:18, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
:::Ah well, I guess I would not really like to have such a chat on these pages, so sorry that I misunderstood you. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:19, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
::::It's alright.. also.... HAPPY HALLOWEEN! :D --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 14:41, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
:::::Wow... it's (almost) a whole year since then. Time sure flies by, huh? --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|'''JayRules''XKCD''' ]][[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|what's up?]] 12:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
::::::Yes that is true. Actually more since the first contact ;-) Haven't been so active the last half year. :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:22, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

== [[1751: Movie Folder]] ==

Assuming that Black Hat only has good movies is rather absurd, as there's not a shred of evidence to support this. Especially since this is Black Hat we're talking about. Therefore, there's no evidence that Titanic 98 is about the ship hitting the reef, and therefore, the calculations about stacking 97 ships have no relevance. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.79.81|172.68.79.81]] 15:06, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
:Since this is relevant to a specific comic, I suggest that you just leave this comment on that specific comic's discussion board. Thank you. --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 15:13, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
::Yes that is true Jay. Anyway there is reason to believe that Black Hat either thinks or teases Cueball with his movies, and thus he suggest that the movies he has are god. Also the other comment he makes suggest this. So I think there is a lot of evidence that this movie 98 is one in the series of movies where Titanic hits the reef of older Titanics. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:05, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
:::Cueball names 7 movies, Black Hat replies to 4 of those. He has definitively positive things to say about 2 of those, and simply states information about another. In that context, there's no reason to assume his comment about the Titanic series should be interpreted as a claim that he considers Titanic 98 to be 'good'. And with only 2 of the other 6 known movies in his collection being stated as 'good', that's clearly not "a lot of evidence" that Titanic 98 is 'good'. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.86|108.162.237.86]] 21:24, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
::::Well we disagree on that then. If the explanation should be changed on the basis of this discussion it should be moved to the relevant discussion page. If it is the same person who wrote from both IP .81 and .86 you could move it there your self. Feel free to include my replies, but leave out Jays as that has nothing to do with the discussion. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:56, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
:::::[[Talk:1751: Movie Folder#Titanic XCVIII|Done]]. (Yes, .81 and .86 were me) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.86|108.162.237.86]] 16:57, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

== Transcript TLDR; ==
*I got so tired of Dgbrt's negative comments (TLDR;), that I have collapsed them here below. Fell free to read them if you really wish by clicking: --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:00, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
<div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed leftAlign" style="width:100%">
 
Please stop to write this massive texts into the transcript. Have a look at the discus at the last (1798) comic. And also think about that you are the only one who is entering those massive explains perhaps also nobody does read. LESS is often MORE! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:Maybe. I was under the impression that they where both there for those that had problems with vision, and also so you could search on something you remembered from a comic and find it using that tool. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::Even visually impaired persons don't like it (see 1798). And TLDR means "too long; didn't read", just in case. You should consider this. Reading the transcript should not take much longer than identifying the features from picture itself. Every spoken text and a short description what is shown should be suffice. At [[1799: Bad Map Projection: Time Zones]] even not every county must be mentioned; showing differences to a regular map projection should be enough because everybody knows a regular world map. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:44, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I completely disagree about only writing spoken text. The transcript is intended to make it possible to read all text in the image not just spoken text. It is often difficult to read all text, and also if people misread it or do not notice it by looking at the image, it will be there to find in the transcript, especially for those visually impaired. And what you said means there should be no transcript for the current comic [[1799]] where you linked to this discussion from. By the way I know what TLDR means, and also did not ask about it, if you noticed! I have seen it used here before, probably regarding something you wrote! ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::I agree with Dgbrt. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:50, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I expect mainly people who agree comes here, as people who are not troubled by it, might not care enough. ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::::The first criticism was done by a visually impaired person (Zetfr 23:11, 13 February 2017 (UTC)) at [[Talk:1798:_Box_Plot]]. That was the reason for me to start this discussion.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::Yes thanks for pointing that out. I had not read his comments when I replied before. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:13, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::Another reason for detailed transcripts with image descriptions is that sometimes people have misunderstood what is in the image, and then a transcript can be used to make sure what is there. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:::All that may go into the explain section; it doesn't belong to the transcript.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::::Yes maybe, but will the visibly impaired not also be annoyed about it there. Then maybe in a trivia section if there is need. I will try that for [[1798]] I think. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:13, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe not known to all. In the past Randall provided a transcript on each comic. It is in a hidden div-tag. Then something went wrong and the transcript actually belonged to an older comic. Right now there is no transcript anymore. But have look at this example (shown on https://xkcd.com/1664/ for https://xkcd.com/1662/):
<pre>
[[Two children, a girl and a boy, are talking to an adult woman as they walk away from her. The boy has a bucket.]]
Girl: Me and Jack are going up the hill to fetch a pail of water.
[[The children have left; the woman calls after them.]]
Woman: Okay, have fun! [[The woman stands and thinks.]]
Woman: ... wait. What the heck is going on with the hydrology around here?
{{Title text: Jill and Jack began to frack. The oil boosts their town. But fractures make the bedrock shake and Jack came tumbling down.}}
</pre>
--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:Yes I tried to include this on explain xkcd by making a [[xkcd#Transcript_on_xkcd|description]] of it on the [[xkcd]] page some weeks ago. Transcript are of course even more important now that there are no longer transcripts on xkcd. The first problem arose after the [[Hoverboard]] comic where the transcript for all comics after that was shifted two and later three comics from the one they belonged to. The last of those shifted transcript ended with [[1674]] whose transcript was found three comics later at [[1677]]. But also comics with transcript needs a better transcript here on xkcd, to include other written text, and small important details, as well as we are using given names for characters which Randall has never used (or only rarely uses). Actually Randall has once made a direct link to Explain xkcd for a better transcript. Alas there was not transcript until this year, where I made it: See this [[Payloads#Trivia|trivia]] under [[Payloads]].--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm glad this discussion is finally taking place. I raised the point a while back on [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#purpose_of_detailed_transcripts the community portal] but nobody noticed. I tried again on [[1795]] but attention had already moved on to the next comic... Seems I got it right this time ;-)
Different people may have different uses for the transcripts. For me, being visually impaired, the right level of detail is that of Randall's official transcripts. It should include every written word in the comic (spoken, printed, in captions, etc.) and just enough information on what's going on to "get it", but not how things are drawn. E.g. "Cueball is talking to Megan", not "Cueball, on the left, has his right arm extended towards Megan who is sitting on a chair" (unless the chair somehow plays a part in the story). Imagine you're talking on the phone: "hey, I saw a great comic this morning, here is how it goes..." and then "tell" yor friend the joke, rather than "describe" the comic. BTW, I think this also serves your goal of being able to search old comics for a specific element. The element you'll remember will be something important to the comic's story, not a graphical detail such as a character's position or the number of lines drawn around his hand to indicate movement. Anyway, thanks for the good work!! Zetfr 16:18, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks for the input, especially to Zetfr. I had not seen your comment on 1795 or in the community portal. I'll have a look, and thanks to Dgbrt for letting me know about your latest comment. I will try to keep out the details in the transcript. For me personally I have often been looking for a specific thing, like searching for the comic where Cueball stands on a chair with a sword or rotates in an office chair. As I could not remember any lines spoken, and because those making the transcript had not mentioned either spinning office chair, or sword, I could not search my way to them even in this explain page. I have found them later, but by chance. And then I put in the details. Maybe I have gotten carried away, so sorry about that. I think the details somehow belongs, but if that should be in the trivia, or at the bottom of the transcript...? I'm not sure, which was also why I put it in the transcript. Being the one who makes the most edits and also hard work (large tables, and huge transcripts) I'm happy Zetfr likes the page :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:09, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
::I have changed the transcript for [[1795]] putting the details into a subesection of the transcript. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:38, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Hi Kynde, I still disagree with this subsection solution. You don't have to repaint the picture by text! If a detail is important for understanding a pun it has to be mentioned in the transcript itself; otherwise it is useless and oversized. E.g.: Nobody wants to know -- and wont remember later -- if there are two, three, four, or five sound symbols and how they are painted. The single word "SOUND" describes all. And please consider: Nobody reads those long texts. LESS is often MORE!.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:04, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
::::Hi Dgbrt. We can movie it into a trivia. I think some of it is relevant, and sometimes it is hard to find out which part will be searched for later. But I guess we two alone would end in a [[1800: Chess Notation|½-½]] for this discussion so far... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::I completely agree with Dgbrt. The transcript should say *what* Randall wants to tell us, not *how* he tells it. In most cases this should also work to let you search for details you remember. In your example, Cueball holding a sword is certainly important to the comic's point, so it should be mentioned in the transcript. But the length and position of the sword are irrelevant, and probably not what you'll search for. Obviously, there is no hard rule to decide what should or shouldn't go into the transcript, it's a matter of personal judgment and common sense, but I think we can all agree on general guidelines. Regarding the "Detailed image description" section tested in [[1795]], I have no problem with that. I'm not sure it will ever be useful to anyone, but it won't do any harm either, so if you're willing to put in the extra work, go for it. Zetfr 12:17, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::Thanks Zetfr. About the extra details, they could be put into a section where you had to press to see the extra details. I do not know if a reader will pass over that. For instance like I have done with explanation for several categories like [[:Category:New Year]] --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Nice find for [[1461:_Payloads]], I didn't now Randall refers to this wiki. According to ''web.archive.org'' that hint was entered between 2015-01-25 and 2015-02-07 and refers to the entire wiki page, not only "our" transcript. So it's absolutely NOT embarrassing as you wrote in the trivia section. I'm setting an incomplete tag for the transcript and trivia section and edit it tomorrow (18th Feb). I will let you know what I've done and why. Stay tuned...--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:The rework on [[1461:_Payloads]] is done. But I didn't remove the incomplete tag. That's up to you. Like Zetfr I'm not sure it will ever be useful to anyone, but the larger description on a separate page would be acceptable to me. Furthermore I've done some investigations on Randalls links to this wiki and put it together in a new category: [[:Category:Explain_mentioned_by_Randall]].--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:57, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
::Thanks both for the "nice find" and for reworking Payloads, and especially for the new category. Great find. I will look at the other examples soon. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks by me for this positive and productive discussion. It seems there are some more former transcripts which need a rework. I personally will focus on checking all the JSON-scripts I downloaded today (1799 at all; ofcourse 404 doesn't exist; and exactly seven contain the word "explainxkcd"). I will write a small script to put them into a human readable form and present it somewhere here for further use. Stay tuned... --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:45, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks Dbgrt. And really cool how you made that new category. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:14, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

== [[xkcd]] page and subpages ==

You moved some contented into subpages which doesn't make it better. There is no need to describe in [[Design of xkcd.com]] a layout everybody can see. The lemma "Design" requires just a few lines of text but you repeat all the "Content". And just for interest: Before the redirect to https was in place (a few weeks ago) there was language specific advertising for the shop. I'm looking forward for a better and more compressed form on all of this. Any suggestions?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hi Dgbrt. My reason for making this page, is that the links, the comics, the headline, the byline, the warning etc. all changes with time, and I would like users of this site to have easy access to earlier links. Just like we have a category for the fotter comics (which I by the way did not make, but enjoyed, because I never thought absolute that he must have had them before all those five comics had been published and that they thus must have changed). So I thought similar things would be nice to have for changes to the layout and hence I decided to describe it. Maybe it was too much, but I like to have the archive links to changes. And since I had already done lots of work on this, I just copied all the new text to another page, to not delete it. And yes as I have said on Davidy's page I should not have put it on the xkcd page to begin with. But when I started I had no idea it would end up soooo long. Waiting to hear your comments on this info, before going further with suggestions. But thanks for asking. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:16, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
::All those pages are on my agenda; your edit or not. I don't care. But I will not delete any content without an agreement. I will present something in a sandbox at my user page. You are welcome there (not before tomorrow). And consider, this wiki is not a backup for archive.org.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:56, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I think this wiki is for explaining xkcd, not just the comics. I believe you agree as I have seen on Davidy's talk page. And major changes or important revisions to the main page is important in my opinion. For instance I'm sad to see that the [[xkcd warning]] has gone from xkcd, and think it is important to let it be know it was there for many years. Where to do so? And how to find it if you did not know about it? There need to be a place that links to it, directly or indirectly through the xkcd page. I look forward to see you [[Time|sand castle]]. :-) Please leave a comment here when you have something you wish me to see, with a link. Regarding you answer to my comment, I meant that I would hear what you had to say before I came with suggestions. Not that you should not do anything before I made one. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

== I am still calm... ==

...why I shouldn't? You see things inspiring others to see more things... (<- you would wrote 500 words for this) and you are still not able to put the pun on the top of an explanation. Keep your focus on the pun, not on every Million possibilities behind the drawing. And you can be sure I will have an eye on this because this is NOT "dreamingxkcd".--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:15, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
:Well I'm not! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:09, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

== Aggressive edits ==

While I was talking to others about the explanation and the transcript for more than 24 hours you need only one hour to change everything that was discussed before. Again all red is yours: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1810%3A_Chat_Systems&diff=137245&oldid=137225 1810: Chat Systems changes]. Editors, mainly not me, don't like it when all their work is changed after you finished your edits. Please respect other editors! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:50, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:I do not change everything. I add. But we are obviously not going to agree on this. I would prefer not to discuss with you. How do yo know what the others like or not. In the discussions we have had I found more against your way of communication than against my edits. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::Massive changes and you call it add??? So tell me your adds and explain how all they other changes happened. I will add a sentence to the comic discussion because it's senseless here.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
:::Yes it is. And it is a real shame that you have decided to know how this wiki should be. Hope that Davidy soon tells one of us to back off. If it is me then I will have to take it into account. So far he has only had nice things to say to me about my work here, which is not what I have seen regarding your work. Have you read the other users that calls your tone negative/aggressive or even worse? I have really tried to speak nicely to you, but you never seems to accept any edits I do. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
::::Your "Citation needed" template add to my text is just one example for what I call aggressive. Hiding four paragraphs is an other.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
</div>
 

== Possible Issues with Updating Old Comics ==

I know you spent a lot of time making edits to many older comics, so I thought you might have some input on one that I'm thinking needs a change - 38 Apple Jacks. I noticed you edited it a little a couple years ago. It's the one where the father tells his son they don't taste like apples, and his son tells him off.

The title text description says it appears to be another case of Randall explaining the comic to readers who don't know about the old commercial, but I think it might be the father telling the son why he was saying that to him. I think it's worth at least adding, if not totally replacing the current description, but I see you had previously added to it during your edits.

How would you handle that type of change, if it were you? [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 21:38, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
: Hi Ianrbibtitlht
:I disagree with the idea you have. And my reason for that is based in the original quote from Randall when posting this comic to live journal where he asks:
::"Who else remembers those commercials?"
::See the comics [[38:_Apple_Jacks#Trivia|Trivia section]].
::To me indication that since no one did, he added the explanation in the title text.
:The son dismissed his father completely, and I do not think the father goes on.
:And since many of xkcd's readers may not know the reference he explains it in the title text.
:He did the same with the title text in [[30: Donner]], which is what is refereed to in the title text explanation. I have added links between these two examples. There may be more.
:Of course you are free to add an alternative explanation, and see if any one notices enough to complain about/remove it. ;-)
:--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

::I appreciate the feedback. I don't feel strongly enough to modify it at this point but thought it might be an added insight that nobody had thought about! ;-) [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 14:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

:::Thanks for asking, by the way. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:46, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

== Need help ==
A few things. Several people have mentioned that ReCAPTCA v1 has expired, and something needs to be done about that. But no one has replied to the admin forum, so not sure what is going on. Are there even any admins still here? Seems like they've all disappeared. And should we create a new forum for questions and things like that? And if all the admins have left, should there be like more admins or something like that? [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 07:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
:Hi
:I haven't any idea about ReCAPTCA and Im not an admin. But yes if there is no one that replies it is a problem. Davidy is the obe I have had discussions with but he did not reply the last two times I wrote. Don't know if DGBRT with the BOT has any knowledge that can be used. Try those two. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
::FYI, we still have admins here and there will be a major update soon at one of the next weekends. BTW, I prefer it in lowercase: dgbrt - like xkcd--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:16, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the info dgbrt, and it sounds greawt. (Your signature is with capital D but that is maybe just as the username? I will use dgbrt from now on). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:08, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

== All is red again - you changed everything according to the diff ==

Hi, look at [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1981%3A_Rickrolling_Anniversary&diff=155913&oldid=155905 your edits] and tell me how someone can see what you have changed. Please keep your changes to smaller parts.

And beginning an explanation with a youtube link which even doesn't work in some countries like Germany is also not a god start to an explanation. I'm referring to your edits above. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:27, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
:OK, sorry about that. I will try to make smaller changes. The link was not one I put in, I just moved it to the beginning to rickroll someone - it was a joke... Of course if the link did not work I can understand why you did not get Rickrolled. But the link had already been included in the explanation before my edits. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:24, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks for your understanding, "all is red..." was the reason why I started this section, the video link was meant as a minor remark and that it doesn't work in Germany is even less important for the explanation.
::But I didn't understand your joke. So what do you think about changing all the internal links like [[Cueball]] to rickroll the readers - of course only less important links.
::BTW: Around 2009 and some years later the German GEMA Mafia tried to block all music content until they got the money. Even dashcam videos from the meteorite incident in Chelyabinsk were blocked when you could hear something from the radio in the car. This has changed and newer uploads are now available to me (including Rick). --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:02, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
:::The joke was that this comic was about rickrolling and the link was to the ricrolling youtube video... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:30, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

I just tried to make several smaller changes, and it was much more difficult to me, with the risk of making mistakes... But have a look at this then: [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1982:_Evangelism&action=history Evangelism history].--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:45, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
:I like that but the development of this comic explanation is funny and not a typical one. Many vast changes were done after your comment here. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:01, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
::Well happy you do. Most of the changes were improvement, but often based on or improving parts I had edited (well I had edited most parts ;-) What I meant was that some of the good changes only came about because of the changes I had done in the first place. Still seems we need a citation for primates opening at the "wrong" end though? {{unsigned|Kynde}}
:::You know I'm a fan of short explanations just covering what's in the comic. And in [[1982: Evangelism]] there is no "wrong banana end" mentioned. It just mentions "the other" - which is of course always "wrong". The title text then indeed refers to a schism in Europe - the Americans weren't much developed by that time (excepting the natives).
:::BTW: My major workload here right now is working on the health of this wiki. You probably haven't seen my latest comment five days ago just a section above. We will get an update soon. Stay tuned.
:::BTW2: You have forgotten to sign your comment ;)
:::--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:19, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
::::Yes we are not fan of the same type of explanations we have covered that. I believe that the majority of humans do peel the banana from the opposite end of that cited (without citations) to what primates do... I'm not sure there is any year for the schism in Europe so who knows how developed the US was at that time. Bananas is a rather new thing in Europe I believe!
::::And no I had not seen that comment, probably same time you posted this comment thread? But sounds great! Are you an admin now? And do you have any contact with Davidy... He went off the xkcd explain grid long time ago.
::::I have amended my mistake and will sign this time ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:12, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

== You blanked the page [[1996]] ==

A you can see [[Talk:1995: MC Hammer Age|here]] "I decided to let it stay there as it is but on Monday that redirect will AND must be overwritten in the meaning of a comic number." That blank page isn't better than my decision. Beginning on Monday the number 1996 MUST be used for navigation (i.e. Comic Number) and nothing else.

Other future comics will be: 1999, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2038. That's all!

All those future comics (by number) - beginning with 1996 on Monday - AND that older ones (by name) should have a disambiguation line on top when the comic number overrides that name.

The problem is the logic at this wiki. While at xkcd the number and name have different meanings and navigation is only done by number it's not true here. While <nowiki>https://xkcd.com/1996</nowiki> will lead to the next future comic and is unique the link <nowiki>https://explainxkcd.com/1996</nowiki> could mean number OR name. We also use the number for navigation, so the abbreviation in the meaning as a comic name can not be supported for those eight comics. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:58, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
:Hi DBBRT
:I first saw your comments after I had blanked it. And I thought it was better to avoid confusion over the weekend. So I did not return it. I think it could be better to already now remove those page re-directions for the comics you mention now, to avoid confusion on all those numbers... A lot of those the next 20 comic or so. We already had a similar situation with [[1337]], because of the LEET comic series. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:15, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
::Read my future comic list above, it's only seven. And the blank page confused some users also. Nevertheless I will change the comic template, navigation to the right will not be shown when the target is greater than the LATESTCOMIC. The BOT will update those redirects anyway. I just prefer some tests at home to figure out the best solution before editing here. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 13:53, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
:::Well, I think 7 times confusing in 20 comics is a lot, but I can read that you are working on avoiding it, so that is great. I'm very impressed by your bot, but then again I have very little programming experience and it was back in my days as a PhD Student around 2002... (Pascal...) Great you have made it and keep improving it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:06, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
::::Thanks for your kind words. I still don't understand the 20, it's only seven comics and I've changed the global comic template so that this is SOLVED now. There is no link to [[1999]] in the navigation bar today. But on Monday my bot will update that page in the meaning of a comic number and the right navigation in [[1998: GDPR]] will be shown. FYI: I'm a professional programmer. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:04, 25 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::Must have been unclear. I meant that over the next 20 comics, there would have been this issue 7 times i.e. about once every week, and I found that it could have caused confusion a lot in those 7 weeks. But now you have solved this with you prof. programmer skills. ;-) So there is no longer any problems. Great work. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:04, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::Thanks for your kind words. And I've done more: Embedding pictures from Commons works again and it's now also possible to change the size. See my latest edit here [[1400: D.B. Cooper]] which uses this statement <nowiki>[[File:DBCooper.jpg|thumb|150px|Cooper]]</nowiki>. That image is not uploaded here, click at it in the comic and you will see. I've mentioned this in the Community portal. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:07, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::Cool. I'm not sure how this works. Looks at first like the image is on the local wiki but I can see it is not so. But how does this works. Can you write the "File" formula for any picture name on commons and then get it embedded here like that? It is beyond my computer skills :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:02, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
::::::::When the picture isn't here it's searched on Commons. When it's found it's only cached at this wiki. In general it works like a local file. This did already work in the past until it was broken. But now we also can change the size, play with that 150px in the preview. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:15, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
:::::::::Thx --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:08, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

== Why you still focus on that SAD comics? ==

I focus on all edits done here and your edits are minor (there are much more edits here needing some attention), nonetheless I would be happy to find a solution on that ''sad'' thoughts are in your mind. I respect your thoughts, but that trivia at ''[[1756: I'm With Her]]'' really dohttps://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/User_talk:Kyndees not belong to that comic at all. It was deleted before, you reverted that -- by not reading or ignoring the discussion page -- and I just want to prevent an edit war. Furthermore I removed your statement about "trolls" at the discussion page because that's not polite.
*And now
**I start
***with
****your layout
*****You see???
Try to write full sentences without bullets. I'm hoping you understand my major two parts here. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:21, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
:Yes I did not read the comments. I was looking for the sad list, when I fond it missing. I saw through the edit and found the following comment:
::This "sad comics" list is utterly pointless and has no reason to exist. I don't regret deleting this waste. If anyone wants to keep it up, revert the edit, but make it readable, compact, and make at least one bit of sense. (Emojis? must be TRUMP!!?!one1!))
:I did not see any discussion there, and found it rude and also not done properly (with many links pointing to this section). So I just reverted it. It could be given its own page though.
:Regarding politeness I must say I did not find most of your comments on the talk page polite as I just read them. As you state "no one has criticized it before", so maybe it is just you, and now some years later a few guys that begins rambling on about it.
:As to why, I think it is quite clear that Randall was sad after the election. Maybe I took it too far, and it should no longer have been "sad", but about comics pointing to a political agenda by Randall. As Randall is on the move again with the mid term election coming, he has both a new political comic out, and has changed the header text with regards to registering for voting twice in a month.
:So I definitely still find it relevant. That has not changed just because two years have passed. What Trump does at the moment is even more disturbing than ever, and I'm sure Randall is thick and tried of it still! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:38, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
::PS. The layout was me trying to make a list of comics that was related to this issue. And with date and events listed as well. Maybe it can be done better, but I at least kept the format throughout. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:39, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
:::You always do this nested bullet lists. That's ugly layout. One bullet and one or two short sentences, not more. In most cases you just should simply omit the bullets and write full sentences. The page [[Design of xkcd.com]] is an other example for this bad layout.
:::But back to the main issue: Even jet you did not read the comments completely. Only after "A) Why does the sad comics list exist (see comment above)?..." I came in. And on 27 October 2018 I mentioned at least four incomplete reasons (the transcript was you).
:::So I recall: The trivia at ''[[1756: I'm With Her]]'' does not belong to that comic at all, and even at a different page the title would be wrong because most of the listed comics are NOT sad. Furthermore I don't know how you do know how Randall feels, he is just a writer and these are only comics.
:::There was a reason why David was against a category for sad comics, and this is still valid. This is the only reason why this section at the trivia of 1756 exists, be honest.
:::So my proposal is:
:::*moving the content to a separate page, either with a new title or only moving the "sad" content and deleting the rest
:::*using the link from the menu: "What links here" at 1756 ([[Special:WhatLinksHere/1756: I'm With Her]]) to fix the links to that part (mostly your former work) and maybe also change the text
:::The comic 1756 has to be explained mainly in the context of the time BEFORE the election. It was a campaign for Hillary Clinton, anything later done by Trump is irrelevant, besides that it has to be mentioned that the campaign wasn't successful. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:16, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
::::Well, I definitely know that the comment in here is mine. I did very much hate the list because, as mentioned in the talk page on the comic, the section was completely disorganized. It took up half of the entire page. As Dgbrt mentioned, the format you use is honestly really ugly, and I have to agree. The real problem that I found was ''after'' I posted the comment he quoted.
::::In that comment, I mentioned that it should have had its own category instead of being completely on that single page, which would have prevented it from the eyes of those who don't like this format. Alternatively, it could have been in a table, a format much more compact, several times easier to understand, and at least 12 octillion times less infuriating to look at.
::::The other mind-boggling and frankly stupid thing about the list, of course, was that you added '''''every. Single. Comic.''''' ...if it seemed to be remotely sad (and even if it ''wasn't sometimes!'') and tried to link it to the political situation and Trump. I, in that comment, presented two of the comics in a - admittedly more asshole-ish - way that you linked them like this. But that's the ''core'' of all of this drama. Hell, in multiple of the comics, you even said that no "big" event seemed related to the situation and simply just put it in because it mentioned the military or security. And even for some of the ones you did present a political event, the speculation that you presented for Randall making these comics was beyond 4chan with Smash Ultimate level.
::::Like I said in that comment, it isn't necessarily a political comment just because something big happened that day. Vomiting Emoji and Flag, the two I highlighted in my comment, have explanations that are just plainly absurd. Randall "expressing fear" that the moon would be gone before the eclipse was ''obviously'' a joke. Randall making a joke that has a flag in the picture doesn't mean he's going to rebel against the United States, make his own country, and science his way to taking it over just so that Trump is no longer the ruler.
::::I wouldn't have had these problems if the list weren't so outlandishly absurd, and combined with the fact that it clogged up the page with a lot of meaningless speculation, I felt pushed to just delete the entire thing. Yes, that may have been extreme of me, and I should apologize for being fed up, but I still maintain that a lot of the stuff on that list is bad. If it's presented in - again - a way that doesn't hurt to read or filled up with what it is, I would have not as many problems with it. But as it looks right now, just making the list collapsible doesn't remove the problem; it's like putting White-Out on a yellow test paper and saying that the question never existed, despite the fact that it's obvious that something is wrong. [[User:Halo422|Halo422]] ([[User talk:Halo422|talk]]) 04:05, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::A bit complicated to reply now. But to Dgbrt I did not read any comments until your post here. I was pissed about the deletion of the entire section, and just undid it. As Dgbrt wrote it can only be deleted properly by also removing links that goes there. I'm not using the page that much at the moment, and do not read all comments. This is also why I first see your comments today.
:::::Dgbrt do you have any good idea for a page title? If it is only the first few comics that are clearly sad, could it then be called "Sad comics"? And should it be a page or a category? If we can find a solution for that, I will try to change it so it can be tolerable... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:01, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::I'm honest: I vote for deleting that section. The main reason is that we don't know how Randall feels, whether sad or not. We just have comics, not an autobiography.
::::::If you still vote for keeping I only can see two possibilities:
::::::*Keep the title "Sad comics", move it to a single page (no subpage to any comic), remove most of the content, write a proper text instead of bullets, and start it like "Some comics may suggest the impression..." because your "...clear trend..." is nonsense.
::::::*Or, move everything to a separate page, but then I have no idea about any proper title.
::::::BTW: I've created a new category: [[:Category:Elections]], and as I mention here [[:Talk:2067: Challengers]] it still needs some work. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::::I will think about the possibilities. And I did see your new category. Which is great by the way. There must be many of these from earlier years also?--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:09, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::::::I need help on this new category because I'm sure there is more. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::I have now created [[Sad comics]] and moved the content from With her and tried to make the layout better. I do not agree with deleting the references to the other comics, but not they have been separated from the first four sad/negative comics. All links have been diverted to this page from all 16 comics. If there are other comics, not on the list, with link to that section I have not changed those... Many comics could refer to With Her for many reasons so I will not go through them all. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:55, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::You've done a big job, so thanks for this on the first place. And I can assure you that you always can find all links at the tools box "What links here", in this case when reading ''[[1756: I'm With Her]]''. I'm still not happy seeing comics like [[2064: I'm a Car]] linking to content titled as ''sad'', but that's up to other editors.
:::'''ProTip''': You should watch pages important to you, just activate "Watch this page" at the bottom when editing, or adjust your "Watchlist" at the top menu belonging to your personal profile. You will receive an email on every change. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:31, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
::::Yes I know about the links, but even though I have reverted the link to the sad trivia section, there may still be a link to the With her comic for other reasons. And there may even be links to the sad section from other comics not listed in my trivia, and I will not go through all pages referencing one of the controversial comics. I by the way highly disagree that we do not know Randall's political opinion. He has also endorsed Obama, so to day it is certain that he endorses the democrats vs Republican is a fact, not a guess. But you changed that on the new [[Challengers]] comic. I will not change it though. I just highly disagree with you on what is a know and what is a guess there.
::::Regarding the comics that are not sad it is not listed as being sad, that is only the first four. The rest is just listing comics that could have to do with Randall's political mood due to Trump and his politics.
::::I no longer have the time I once dedicated to this page... And hence I have taken e-mail alerts off, which is why I first noticed the deletion now. But I get e-mails on personal changes on this page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:37, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
:::::While I'm still sure not knowing much about Randall's condition when his comics are published, I sense ''you'' are sad. I insist you should take a closer look on all your contributions here, which are much more than only this stupid sad stories. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 00:18, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

== I am still happy to see your additions here... ==

...you did edits I didn't like - and vice versa - but that's a war I don't like. And now I'm in a position in which I have to take care of all the health here, not only what's written.

Ironically: xkcd is also about sarcasm, the hell, shoooouuuuting on the hellll...

I will probably disagree on some of your future edits, but I don't have to judge this. That's up to others here.

So now I'm asking for help on a SMALL page introducing the memes used at this site. Like the Editor-FAQ I did. David did...not that much on that requests over a long time.

While I'm not sure about a proper title, this Wiki still leaks on a page simply showing the memes used here, linking to more specific pages, presented to evrey newbee.

--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:06, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
::Thanks.
::I'm not sure I understand the page you are talking about, or what type of memes you mean.
::Also as is probably clear I'm not using that much time on this wiki anymore. I'm not leaving it, I just do not have the time any longer. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Oh, I'm also not sure, maybe just a title like "About". It often happens that new people asking questions like "Why is the mouse-over text called title text?", how character names have been developed here, and so forth. A simple page, mostly showing links with a small introduction to the more hidden pages you often maintain. New readers have simple questions we don't think about anymore, that's what I would like to present. But it seems I have to collect some more items on which you maybe can help. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:34, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
:::Ah I see. It was the meme part that failed to register. But a about page makes sense. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:37, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

== We got a final image ==

Emoji dome has a wonderful ending image. Do you mind putting it as the current explainxkcd image? [[User:Netherin5|“That Guy from the Netherlands”]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 18:25, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
:No it is perfect. I can see [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:emojidome.png someone already did], it has just not been updated on the front of the page yet. It will be before tomorrow. The other pictures should be collected on a extra page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:56, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

== Removing all references to the Sad comics page ==

Hi Kynde,

I've expressed my intention to remove all references to the Sad comics page over at [[Talk:Sad_comics]], but I wanted to get your input too, since it is your page. Feel free to drop a comment over there if you want to contest this. [[User:Hawthorn|Hawthorn]] ([[User talk:Hawthorn|talk]]) 12:56, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
:Hi Hawthorbn. Thanks for alerting me. Did not follow the discussion page on Sad. I of course disagree. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:56, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

== 2196 ==
I mentioned this on DgbrtBOT's talk page, but I'm not sure Dgbrt saw it. Since you're an admin, could you help me with this?
# I uploaded the file, and it appeared in the page, but the link in the List of all comics page is still red. I think I messed up the upload, so could you delete the current file (the one I uploaded) for 2196 and reupload it?
# I created an incorrect redirect page [[Nice To E-Meet you]] (The name is incorrect, I forgot to capitalize the You). Could you please delete that page? Thanks!
[[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 00:52, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
:Hi Herobrine. No I'm not ad admin, just very active, and cannot do anything to delete pages. I can give it a look though cause I have created a few pages long time ago when the bot was not there/working. And yes seems like Dgbrt is not active at the moment. Lets see if it works again this Monday. As you can see [[User_talk:Dgbrt#DgbrtBOT_failed_2019-08-30|here]] I tried to write directly to him. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:38, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
::Can see you have created the page with [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Nice_To_E-Meet_You&redirect=no capital You] and I have now moved the image to a title with the hyphen in e-meet, which was missing in your original edit. So now [[List_of_all_comics]] works for the image as well. There are so many things which can go wrong, which is why we love out BOT. Hope it works tomorrow.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:46, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

== Category book promotion ==
Hi, you obviously know a thing or 2 about creating and adding categories, and like to do so :)
I feel like we could need a category about book promotion, with at least 3 comics related to how to and at least one to thing explainer (hoverboard, possibly also up goer five...), and myabe even others I can't remember right now. What do you think? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
:Maybe more a list of comics that promote books. Not comics that inspire books, so no to Up Goer Five. But it could get special mention with mention of the category in that explanation as well. But I think we need to find more than 4, five is kind of a limit. Maybe there where something for what if? But I do not think so... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:37, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
::Looking at it again, we do have five :) [[Hoverboard]], [[2190: Serena Versus the Drones]], [[2198: Throw]], [[Disappearing Sunday Update]] and [[2194: How to Send a File]]
:::Well great. Do you have an idea for the category name? "Category:Book promotion" ??--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:54, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
::::Sounds good to me! --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:56, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::Will you add that category to the comics? I can help create the page then. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:57, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
::::::Done --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:07, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::::[[:Category:Book promotion]] page created and found another comic that promotes a book Randall has been involved in! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:40, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

== Broken Button ==
Hi Kynde, I've answered your question on my talk page. But I'll post it here just in case: I think you forgot to update [[Template:LATESTCOMIC]], so it would treat comic 2198 as 2197, hence breaking the button. [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 22:55, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
:Thanks, DgbrtBOT has updatet it and now it works! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:40, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

I see you went through a few of my recent edits, and corrected them / replied on them / acted on them. Thanks a lot. Also, now I learned from your edits how subcategories work. Thanks also for that. :) (But, please try not to change the word typo to lupo in common use. I don't think it would be an honour :) ) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:00, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
:I hope you could see the joke. Like when you fixed the fix? I also spotted you put a hidden joke . I will not make the same joke again. I guess it was also a kind of signature. I spotted that you where the most active last month. And was interested seeing what kind of edits. More or less I agreed with most... And cool with the spam fight. Do not use the same amount of time as I used to, but have been more active lately... Just became 2nd on all time activity list... Happy you both noticed and approved. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:09, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
::I could see the joke and I enjoyed it :) as I tend to make a lot of typos, it isn't even that far fetched to use my name instead ;). I usually visit the site a few times a day and start on the recent changes page, and check what has happened. That's also how I often quickly find the spam. The other thing I tend to do when I got some free time on my hands is use the "random page" button and find out if I can improve the place I get to. I also saw that you are progressing a lot in the all time list. Last month I even noticed you were in the monthly list at a score that would have put you in the all time top 50 on its own. Impressive! Have a good weekend. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 20:00, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
:::I'm also not native English speaker (Danish), and my grammar is probably horrible. Then it is great it is a wiki so others can fix that. I hope my additions are a plus. Have of course had rows with others, as can be seen above ;-) With some of the big one I think I have had months that would put me in top 20... (Not something I have checked). But with some of the comics where I added a lot of images, I will get a very high score as unique pages gives one point, and every picture uploaded is a new page. The amount of changes I have made puts me in nr. 1 spot, but that doesn't give much compared to number of pages visited. And please feel free to correct my typos. By the way I haven't even read all comics yet, since I have a hard time reading a new one without wishing to make corrections to transcript or explanations, so it takes some time every time I find a new. So between the first comic I saw when I found this page and then back from there there will be lots of comics I haven't even seen yet... Probably why you can find so many transcripts where caption below the panel has not been added (as it was I who began making this the way to write it). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 22:46, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

== Category for Back to the Future ==

Hi, can you create a category for the film series ''Back to the Future''? To start, there is [[102: Back to the Future]], [[656: October 30th]], [[1477: Star Wars]], [[2104: Biff Tannen]], [[2193: Well-Ordering Principle]], and maybe others. Thanks, [[Special:Contributions/172.68.47.144|172.68.47.144]] 20:26, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
:Hi yes I can. And I did: [[:Category:Back to the Future]]. I added yours. Here is [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&profile=default&search=%22Back+to+the+Future%22 a search string] that may help find more (for you to add). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:31, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

== Deletion of small categories? ==

Hi Kynde! I posted this on the community portal, but it seems unresponsive, and since none of the admins have edited recently, you seem like the person to ask.
I count eight categories on explainxkcd that satisfy the following properties: 1. They have only three comics in them. 2. They aren't really a comic series; they just feature or reference a comic theme. 3. They aren't Featuring some person or character. In short, they seem to have no real reason to exist. (They're [[:Category:Spice_Girls|t]][[:Category:Wind_turbine|h]] e[[:Category:Ender%27s_Game|s]]eo[[:Category:FernGully|n]][[:Category:Giraffes|e]]s.) In addition, there are [[:Category:Sketches|t]][[:Category:BSD|h]][[:Category:Emacs|i]][[:Category:Identity_Theft|r]][[:Category:Katamari_Damacy|t]][[:Category:Super_Bowl|e]][[:Category:The_Matrix|e]][[:Category:Tournament_bracket|n]][[:Category:Traffic_light| ]][[:Category:Trebuchet|m]][[:Category:Wingsuit|o]][[:Category:Euler_diagrams|r]][[:Category:Pedantic|e]] four-comic categories that also satisfy these requirements. I know non-admins can't delete articles, but because of these articles' status, should I remove their contents and add them to [[:Category:Pages to delete]]? --[[User:Account|Account]] ([[User talk:Account|talk]]) 01:17, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
:Since I'm no admin just the most active over an extended period of time, I cannot really say what to do. Some of the categories I think has merit, I may even have created some of them. And there may be reason to expect more to come. But others I tend to agree. I think Randall has something with Giraffes and the Spice Girl spurt with three in short notice I think merits the categories. The other 6 with three I would not mind if they went away. But then there may need to be some links between those comics. Are you willing to make those? If you do then empty the categories, and put them as up for deletion. Most of those with four I would keep. I have NOT clicked on them all though, just read them here when I edited this response. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:56, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

== Category for Bees ==

Hi Kynde,

Can you add a category on bees, as a subcategory of [[:Category:Animals]]? I've found [[1259: Bee Orchid]], [[1186: Bumblebees]], [[2231: the Time Before And After Land]], [[2035: Dark Matter Candidates]], [[1692: Man Page]], and there are probably more. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.38|172.69.34.38]] 00:22, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
:Done [[:Category:Bees]]. Added your five comics. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:49, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

== New category - comics with store products ==

Hi Kynde, thanks for creating the new page for [[:Category:Comics with store products]]! (I was the one who added the comics to that category, but I didn't have permission to create a new page for the category itself, so I apologize for abandoning it like that.)

For the name of this category, I wanted to follow a similar pattern to existing category names such as "[[:Category:Comics from 2005]]" or "[[:Category:Comics with color]]". So for the name of this new category, I had considered some other more accurate names, such as "[[:Category:Comics upon which xkcd store products are based]]", or perhaps "[[:Category:Comics made into official merchandise]]"; but I felt that these new category names would be a bit too long, so I was trying to keep it more succinct than that. ...But now I realize that the current name I chose is not very clear, and might cause some confusion about what it's supposed to mean, so it was really a poor choice of words on my part. Do you have any ideas for a better name that we could use for this category? If so, please feel free to rename it, then I will go through all the comic pages where I added it, and update them to the new category.

On the other hand, in the edit-history of the [[:Category:Comics with store products]] page, I noticed in your comments that you felt it was maybe not a good idea for a category -- and I certainly understand that, so if you want to just remove this category completely, please feel free to do so, then I will go through and remove it from all the comics where I added it (so as not to leave any broken links behind).

Thanks for your help, and sorry for causing noob trouble!

- [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 09:57, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
:Hi Yfmcpxpj
:First of all, the comment on my creation of the page, was because I did not understand the category. Store products.. I thought it was like with products bought in a type of store... First when I clicked on a few and saw your (?) comments that a t-shirt was based on this comic, did I understand the category. Think I wrote that in my next edit, where I linked to the store. After realizing that, I though it was a great category, although adding xkcd would probably help the understand-ability: "Category: Comics with xkcd store products"
:What do you say to that title?
:Regarding my ability to make pages, that is just because I have edited enough to get that right (I know I have edited more than any one else here...) But I'm actually not an admin, and I cannot delete pages. Sadly it seems the admins have left xkcd without replacements... So not one answers admin requests, and although I'm glad to help when I can, I do not have that many rights on the page.
:But true you may have asked for someone to create the page and also maybe ask for the title before creating it. I think I will be able to rename the page though, so if you can go through all the comics and correct the category there I would like to give it a try. (Do not do this before I have changed the name!)
:What do you say? And should I add the xkcd as suggested above?
:--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:14, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

::Yes, I like your title better, "Comics with xkcd store products" -- I think it is much clearer. If you can rename the category, I will wait for that, then after it has been successfully renamed, I'll go through and update those comics to use the new one instead. And sorry to hear that the admins have been absent -- but it looks like you are doing a good job of keeping the site maintained, so thank-you for that! - [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 08:58, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
:::I have now moved the category page. You can find the list of comics that now need to be moved [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Comics_with_store_products&redirect=no here].
:::And the new empty category here [[:Category:Comics with xkcd store products]]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:26, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

::::Thanks Kynde; I have moved the remaining comics into the new category. You mentioned that you don't have permissions to delete pages, so I wonder if the old page [[:Category:Comics with store products]] should be put into parent [[:Category:Pages to delete]] so maybe the admins will delete it? - [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 08:15, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
:::::As the old Category redirects to the new one, I guess deletion is not necessary. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:31, 26 November 2019 (UTC)
::::::If no pages refers to the old category, and to avoid anyone putting comics in that category again, it would be nice to have it deleted. But I'm not sure anyone will do that at the moment. Davidy is long gone and DGBRT seems to be absent as well... I was once asked to be an admin but declined at the time ... Maybe that was a shame, but at least I still react when someone post on my page... But I'm not that active anymore, and have never looked much through the portal pages etc. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:49, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

== Banned from Conferences Category ==

Hi Kynde, you usually have a good feeling on how Categories should be described, etc. There was a (quite short) discussion on [[153: Cryptography]], to remove a portion of the explanation. Do you think that stuff belongs into [[:Category:Banned from conferences]]? Maybe you can chime into the "discussion" on 153. -- Regards [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 14:24, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

== Edit summaries ==
Please use {{w|Help:Edit_summary|edit summaries}}; they are especially important for pages like [[:xkcd Header text]] that are infrequently monitored but have a meta-importance. Thanks. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:22, 16 July 2020 (UTC)
:I have more or less created the entire page from scratch. So I will not begin writing details every time I make a revision. But I use it for most other edits. I can see you care for BLM... Great, you probably know much more on this than I do. I made this page, to keep track of the header text, which was not explained on these pages. Sometimes it is relevant for a given comic, so great to have this place to write about it, and then link to it from the comics. The unfilled link was to help people wo may help editing this page, fill in when the header changed. I will do that now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:37, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::Kynde: I don't understand how your authorship of the page (from scratch or otherwise) has anything to do with whether you should be writing details of when you make a revision. But for sensitive topics, which BLM is, it is especially important for other editors to be able to carefully review changes. And when you make a large block of changes, like you did there on July 1, with 8 different edits, edit summaries are an extremely helpful tool for everyone else. So, again, the request is to please use an edit summary, ''especially'' when you are making multiple edits in a row, and ''especially'' on pages of meta-importance like [[:xkcd Header text]]. Of course, this is not Wikipedia, the rules here (such as they are) are relatively weak, and we all should coöperate. But if your answer is "I don't have to because I wrote the page first, years ago!" that doesn't make any sense at all. If your goal was to make sense, then I don't know how to respond. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 17:50, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::Well I shall try to be more careful around sensitive subjects. You are one of the first other than me to have edited the page. And one of the few that have added a new section. I just changed it into the same format that I have used on all the others. And did a revision now, and sorry I forgot to write what it was out of bad habit. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:57, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
::::I think the change you just made was…not great. See [[:Talk:xkcd_Header_text#Recent_BLM_edits]] where I give my opinion. But it is probably better discussed there than on your personal page, but I wanted to highlight it for you. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 18:04, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:::::I have replied on the other talk page. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:28, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

== Nationality ==

What country are you from? [[User:Beanie|Beanie]] [[User talk:Beanie|talk]] 12:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
:Denmark. Why? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:15, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

== Forgive this IP ==
I just made a handful of edits to recent changes that you had made (may not have been what you changed, in all cases; it might have just been pre-existing errors and Recent Changes just drew me to them). I hope it doesn't look personal, especially from an impersonal IP that you can't easily talk back to. So I'm mentioning it here to try to apologise if it does seem that way. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.85|162.158.159.85]] 18:57, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
:Hi. Thanks for telling. Since your IP will change I cannot see exactly which changes you made, but cheeked on my last changes and saw some CE and minor changes. Only thing I disagreed with (not sure it was you) was that the Launch comic should not have been released on the 24th. Which it was in most of the US if not all. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:01, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
::(Most of the changes occured under roughly the 172.70.… range, as I recall, though you can see the above switched to a whole different class-B - entirely due to the internediary's whim (Cloudflare?) without my changing anything. I'm sitting on a different connection now, so all bets are off what ''this'' will appear as. ;) )
::I have no argument with Randall posting on the 24th (his time) as the Bot got there soon enough to prove it. But of course the rest of us (mostly Europe and beyond) had a different experience. Still before the launch (whoever checked for themselves in time), which I think a couple of my edits were about. Really not huge issues, just minor fixes. You're good with those things, I know from experience, just a courtesy note (that and this). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 22:42, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
:::Maybe not you who posted. But as you can see your IP is not the same in these two posts, so I can only assume you are the same person, but cannot guess which of my edits you have changed and which someone else changed ;-) Do you have a name other than 162.158.159.85 or 172.70.86.22 ;-) Why not get an account? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:29, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
::::I just can't think of a decent username. I tend to use different ones everwhere (and never my RL identity) and most of them were 'good ideas at the time' but when the inevitable "Why is your username what it is?" thread comes around it always seems my 'explanation' is laughable. All the above in this section (that isn't you) is me, BTW. Just added an indent layer I missed. I'm happy being (slightly unpredictably) changing IP, because I seek no credit (or blame!) for my 'insights' and my ego survives well enough on such fleeting moments of anonymous fame, I assure you. ;) And I don't mind when other IP-editors 'land' on/near what I just used, either, even if they're now completely wrong.
::::Not that I think Usernames are a bad thing in general for you and others (c.f. 4chan 'anon' culture...), I'm just happy that it's one less thing to worry about in my own case! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73|172.70.85.73]] 15:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
:::::Well that is up to you. But then again it is hard to forgive an IP when I'm not sure what it has done or not. But as I could just see there where nothing needing forgiveness so we are good. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:15, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

== Do you get a healthy amount of sleep? ==
In recent days I see you editing very often and I just wanna make sure you get enough sleep because while you're doing amazing work, I am a bit concerned [[User:256.256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256.256.256.256|talk]]) 08:45, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
:Ha ha - thanks for both the concern and the praise. I'm from Denmark so if you look at the time stamp and think I should be sleeping, then maybe it is in the middle of the day here. I write this just before 10:00 AM here in DK. But actually I'm doing very little now compared to maybe five years ago. If you look at the [[Special:ContributionScores|ContributionScores]] at the bottom with the All time (Top 50), you will see that I'm number two. And if you look at number of changes I'm far ahead of number 2... So this is actually quite low level activity for me... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:53, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

==[[Countdown in header text]] image ==
You mentioned you'd help uploading the countdown wiggle gif, so [https://tobot.dev/files/xkcd-countdown here]'s a link to all the image stuff of the countdown. (Specifically, [https://tobot.dev/files/xkcd-countdown/full_animation.gif full_animation.gif] and [https://tobot.dev/files/xkcd-countdown/Countdown%20in%20header%20text%20Wiggling.gif Countdown in header text Wiggling.gif]).
Optionally [https://tobot.dev/files/xkcd-countdown.zip zipped], for easier archival. [[User:Toby|Toby]] ([[User talk:Toby|talk]]) 20:03, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
:Great thanks Toby. Will try to make it work. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:15, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
::It worked and I have replied on your new talk page and created your own page, in case you still could not. Feel free to change that now. Very happy with your work, both of the files. Thanks!!! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

== Purely to improve your knowledge of English ==

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spacecrafts#English

i.e., as with vehicular "craft" in general (including aircraft, hovercraft, etc), the -s pluralisation is allowable but not considered standard. An oddity of the terminology that I don't actually know the reason for. I'm wondering could it be from our nautical heritage where singular craft were the rarity (a simpler version of how [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aderyn sometimes the singular can be considered rarer than the plural]? Yet ships/vessels/etc don't succumb to that usage. Even if sheep and fish do! Anyway, while spacecraft are preferred, spaceships are indeed the synonymous alternative. IYSWIM...

Crafts, as in skillfully created works, ''are'' the plurals exactly as you'd initially expect. Woodcrafts, metalcrafts, etc. So I suppose those people who are shipcrafters might therefore craft many crafted craft, thanks to the various crafts they know, and then exhibit their crafts at a craft-fair. ((i.e "Boatwrights might construct many well-made (model?) ships, thanks to their skills, then show their creations at an exhibition of bespoke manufacturing.")) Crafty, eh?

Sorry, I seem to have gone overboard with the explanation. Throw me that lifebelt, please? ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.73|172.70.85.73]] 10:40, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
:Hi. Thanks. I'm not sure it will help, I'm not very good at spelling, even in my own language. But maybe I will remember this. I do not mind other people copy editing my posts. My idea is that if I write something useful other will make it better, and correct the errors. But if I do not write it, then it may be left out of an explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:54, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

== THANK YOU!!! ==
Kynde - I have only just discovered this beautiful Explain XKCD wiki and am in awe - I saw that you have been a huge contribuotr for years and just wanted to say Thank You to you and team for this beautiful legacy of work! With it XKCD can be that much more of a portal into all the different directions Randall’s comics touch on and drift near.

I’ve been behind the scenes in wikipedia for years (so often painful) and love connecting with anyone else who is doing meaningful wiki work. I’m just stopping by here today on my way to *important deadlines* but intend to be back. Just set up my Explain editor account. Pop me a talk page note? Happy to plug in! [[User:DrMel|DrMel]] ([[User talk:DrMel|talk]]) 19:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

(Ps looks like I am not getting through the email validation steps - no email confirmation has yet made it to my email. I’ll check back later. On wikipedia I’m https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DrMel

(pps - email validated! But i still dont have permission to setup my user page… so this time i really am going back to the Save-The-World work i am supposed to be doing!)
:Hi [[User:DrMel|DrMel]]. Wow, thanks a lot. Yes I have been very active on this page. I'm not one of the admins though, and sadly it seems this page is without any active admins, and that it has been so for a while. I guess I'm the best option right now. I have created your user page and talk page, so now you can work on the user page. Welcome to explain xkcd. If you have any questions regarding format or other things feel free to ask. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:38, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

== Nomination ==
I know you maybe don't want it, but see [[explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Coordination#New_admins]] '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 02:08, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
:I have answered there and accepted the nomination. It is an honor. Hope I can live up to it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:16, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
::Finally got the promotion from Jeff. Thanks. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

== Block User:Donald Trump ==

Can you block [[User:Donald Trump]]? He is another spambot, like the others recently: [[Special:Contributions/Donald_Trump]]. Thanks, [[User:Natg19|Natg19]] ([[User talk:Natg19|talk]]) 17:48, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
:Done--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

== you blocked a mobile phone (T-mobile) IP ==

You blocked “162.158.107.124”. The problem is, that’s a T-mobile IP that goes to whomever happens to get it. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.36|172.70.211.36]] 19:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
:Yes Im new to being administrator so sorry I messed that up. But think I [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/162.158.107.124 managed to undo it]? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:33, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

== Regarding your latest IP block ==

See [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:While_False&oldid=286101#Concision_and_clarity my note on this latest thing] that it seems like you were reacting to.
 In general, I don't think IP-blocking is very useful (false-positives get hit and false-negatives get round it, depending upon the vagueries of everything, and as an IP myself this is close to the bone for me) but there's potentially something going on. I don't know if you get to see what ''doesn't'' happen because of a block, though. Tricky one to get your head round. But thought I'd clue you in on what I'm thinking. Completely your decision on how you take it.
 Keep up the good work, BTW! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.15|162.158.159.15]] 12:59, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
:Just to add that [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=957:_Development&curid=4423&diff=286104&oldid=283524 this change] follows the trend I mentioned (type of edit + history of its apparent IP), and now undone. Not to overly pester you with this (better the Community Portal for that), just FYI. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.11|141.101.98.11]] 17:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
::I only block them for a week or 3 days, just to stop current spam, and thanks for the praise --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:02, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

== Sparing use of Talk-page section headers ==

Note that I added a ;-title (not an individually editable section's title), albeit first mis-tapping in the :-indenter instead by accident, but maybe you were a bit overzealous squishing out the ==editable== section-headers (the existing one and my own once someone had helpfully 'upgraded' it) in the latest discussion.

The advice given on the main-page, as part of the discussion-inclusion templating, is that new sections should be used ''sparingly'', not that they are not to be used. If anything, I was wrong to use a ;-title (to logically separate my contribution from the headered bit I was following), perhaps I should have inserted as a normal running comment above the newly broken-out section.

Not complaining, but just positing the view that it seemed a bit draconic of an intervention. Livable-with, having been done, but not sure it was strictly necessary.

(Would be handy to add across the "Add to the bottom (etc)" HTML-comment to the top of the page, from a BOT-created new-discussion-page, though I suppose I could do that. Maybe I will. Yes, I think I will. You could also maybe check the circumstances why a normal user had needed to do theusafBOT's work for it... I'm sure it's more that theusaf's script is just temporarily offline, or slow to react, rather than having gone the way of dgbrtBOT/whatever...) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.177|172.70.85.177]] 13:49, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
:I think there is now use for headings in comment section. And in some cases the explanations have a TOC and then the headings of the talk page would come into this because we include talk page on the explanation page. Also it becomes confusing when others add different comments below, as they then seems to belong to the headered section. Thus best leave them out, unless something very special. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 05:55, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

== Table of tips? ==
Why put the table in a section on [[2649]]? It breaks the convention of discussing the comic before discussing the title text. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 07:11, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
:No this has been done whenever there is a table. The comic should be explained first, but if lots of info needs to be added in order to understand the full details of the comic, then the title text is usually explained after the first short explanation. And then the larger explanation is delegated to a sub section, just as I have done here. It is because you may not wish to dwell into all these details, they are not needed to understand the overall joke, but you might like to see the title text explained, and then this should not be hidden deep down. Also there is a link from the explanation to the table, so you can easily go there to read the main explanation for each tip.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:32, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
::Well it's no big deal; I don't have strong feelings about it, but I haven't been here very long, and noticed that [[2636]], [[2638]], and [[2639]] all have tables following the sequence of the comics instead of in a section at the end. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 08:39, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Yes that must also be said to be new comics, and not those that have been here long time ;-) All of them came out after my holiday began this summer, and I have not had time to go through those comics yet. But thanks I will fix it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:21, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
::::Fixed those three and also completed two of the transcripts. Thanks for pointing the discrepancy out. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

How do you feel about [[2606]]? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.150.173|172.71.150.173]] 08:32, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Since the title text is just another symbol, it seems fine to have it in the table. But actually there may be a reason to explain that joke as well in the main explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
::But after updating the explanation I ended up moving the table to a section and moving any other explanation above. Including a mention of the title text. Is this the same person that started this thread that asked about 2606? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:56, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:::No, I'm [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2207:_Math_Work&diff=291019&oldid=282989 this guy.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 15:52, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::::Hello, That Guy. (BTW, I'm also none of the above conversationalists, Kynde...) That change you linked... I just reverted it. It was fixed (devandalised) already in a state that was after the removal of the Incomplete tag and I couldn't work out ''why'' you considered it needing reverting. Yes, a lot of restored stuff (now unrestored), but I couldn't quite work out which (pre-vandalism) version you even reverted to, and surely there were various useful culling edits ("no, we don't need to say that, it's irrelevent", etc) that you were negating.
:::::Or at least that was my almost knee-jerk response (almost, because I went back through the crapcrapcrap stuff and beyond trying to find where you were coming from, so I spent some time on thinking about it before I did it).
:::::I offer it up to review by the wider community, or hack to yourself (or give Kynde a shot, if they aren't busy). Maybe some old bits could be reintegrated, but I couldn't see which on a semi-cursory glance. So, given you have provided a handle on you,vexpanding upon the woefully short edit-summary space, to more fully explain any confusion (of mine, or yours, or just in general). Ok? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 16:43, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2650: Deepfakes

2022-07-28T16:26:55Z

172.70.91.128:

Is it worth mentioning that this comic is merely sincere discussion, without (please correct me if I'm wrong) any sort of a joke or irony? The closest it gets is hyperbole in the title text. I know it's not unique in this respect, but it does seem to be different than other such comics because it seems like it might have a joke, given the obscurity of the Ea-nasir reference. If our job is truly to explain, should we let people coming here to figure out the humor know there isn't any? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.95|172.70.214.95]] 06:48, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:Did but [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2650:_Deepfakes&diff=290833&oldid=290831 reverted,] other opinions? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.145|172.70.210.145]] 08:39, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
::I have reverted and added more. I just [[609: Tab Explosion|used a long time]] on [[214: The Problem with Wikipedia|wiki]] because of those two tidbits of info that has nothing to do with Deepfakes... :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:49, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Snap... I (not the above IP) was also on a long wikiwalk. (Did you know that the map of the copper-fraudster's house is one of the top 200 diagrams that is considered important to resubmit in vectorised format? Amongst many colour-model diagrams and how much money goes to which US surveillance and intelligence agencies. :P ) I really ought to do something important, instead. Like vectorise some diagrams. Hand me my spline-wrench and my gradient-planer! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.34|172.70.86.34]] 10:17, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:Not sure about there being no joke. White Hat realizing that you can write untrue things (most common types known as lies and fiction), that people have done it for a long time and calling it the new buzzword ("text deepfakes") certainly was funny to me. Cueball's somewhat obscure reference (which you don't really need to know to understand) drives home the point.[[User:627235|627235]] ([[User talk:627235|talk]]) 10:52, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:The Ea-nasir punchline made me laugh, I think its a bit of a stretch to say there's no joke here [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.34|172.70.86.34]] 11:00, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:The text about no joke is utterly wrong. There's no single punchline, but this is a very funny strip. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 11:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:: It's though-provoking, interesting, and insightful — maybe even profound — but I wouldn't call it humorous. It's probably a good idea to put something in for people like me who come here looking for the joke. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]]
: The Ea-nasir reference is hilarious. Fake product reviews on clay tablets!--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.11|162.158.134.11]] 12:34, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:: Or "Instead of Copper Ingots, package contained Near Eastern Wildcat"... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.5|172.70.85.5]] 21:23, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
: Not all humor is 'laugh-out-loud' or 'clownish' - - - or, even necessarily 'funny' depending upon your definition. 17:37, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
: It's all a matter of taste. For example - take the closing reference in the explanation "A similar dilemma was discussed in 1958: Self-Driving Issues, where technology does not create a new way to lie, but may make such lies more convincing to certain parties (in the other strip, self-driving cars)." --- although there is no punchline it is humorous (absurd) because there were no self-driving cars 64 years ago, and I am pretty sure XKCD was not even around in 1958. Or, maybe it is an example a text deepfake provided for elucidation. [[User:DMG|DMG]] ([[User talk:DMG|talk]]) 17:56, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
:: For the record, that last reference is referring to xkcd comic #1958, not the year 1958... [[User:Mathmannix|Mathmannix]] ([[User talk:Mathmannix|talk]]) 02:00, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:I was thinking of the fact that White Hat is actually convinced and that Cueball is not looking down upon him or thinking hi is stupid. Many of those conversations ends pretty bad for White Hat, which is not the case here. So after reading the above I agree that saying there is no joke is wrong. But I still think the play out of this comic is far from the regular style of White Hat and Cueball conversations. Another where they discuss photographs, one of my favorites, [[1314: Photos]], pans out a more normal way for this type of conversations. Not sure it needs explanation, but that was why I felt that there was some true part in the "no standard joke" idea. Because there was no joke on White Hat. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
::Was looking for other examples of what I feel is more standard and found these: [[2557: Immunity]], [[2555: Notifications]], [[2475: Health Drink]], [[2368: Bigger Problem]] and [[2165: Millennials]]. Needed to go back three years to find five, so they are not all over the place. But I only looked through about a third of the 156 comics with White Hat. ;-) But there is probably also some similar to this one. I just noticed these where White Hat is frowned at and remembered them. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
: I would have said that at least part of the humour is that White Hat can only conceptualise things in a technological framework - hence why Cueball has to use a technologised expression ("It's a known exploit") to explain the point to him (lying is part of being human). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.80|172.70.91.80]] 09:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
: It's worth noting that xkcd is "a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language". Humor is not guaranteed. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.207|172.69.69.207]] 17:58, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:: Sure, but what percentage of Explainxkcd readers are here to figure out the joke, if any? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 06:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

To help the editors who put in/dealt with the non-existent {{template|Citation actually needed}}. It's {{template|Actual citation needed}} that must have been intended... Although I don't think it's so much in doubt that it it is verifiable fact, anyway.{{Actual citation needed}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.171|172.69.79.171]] 22:23, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like a useful redirect or sub-transclusion. With modern camera high resolution, color fidelity, contrast, and depth of field, it's reasonable to ask whether making convincing fake photos is harder today than when cameras weren't as good and people weren't familiar with giveaway artifacts. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 06:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::Everyone{{Citation needed}} is familiar with giveaway artefacts (such as "not-off-by-8" JPG copypasta, shadow hue discrepancies, general stippling mismatches between sources) and so they do very simple things to just not exhibit such things. Such as take/use the highest resolution images, edit them accordingly (with carefully chosen off-source imagery, chosen for similar/adjustable shadows/colour-spread/etc) and then save them ('new', with any EXIF intact/changed as necessary) at an acceptibly lower resolution so that any edge-case pixels they didn't quite get right get smoothed out amongst all the others.
::Heck, I've even suppressed the saturation of a source image slightly to make up for the problems of a pasted-in element being too dull (not being actually artistic myself, I know I can't always as easily up-saturate a new bit to match the colour-warmth properly) in occasional paradoic pieces I've concocted via GIMP (I presume it matches Photoshop for natively available tools, and I rarely need to write my own scripted ones to achieve a blending filter of one sort or another).
::Like I just hinted at, I consider myself to have zero artistic skill, and nor do I aim to actively deceive, but I have a decent eye for what looks wrong and I have more or less equal access to the tools that can find (e.g.) misaligned .jpg artefact-blocks so that I can avoid/squish those discrepancies. - Someone with actual profficiency in digital art and good mouse(/stylus) coordination can probably dodge/burn/smear or even pixel-by-pixel repaint segments of an image into a far more reasonable facsimile of the intended New Reality, ''and check that they've not left any clear digital fingerprints''.
::The Cottingly duo just tried to set up a real (but misleading) scene, pointed and shot and had no further recourse to go back into the developed image/negative to suppress any accidentally showing bits of the hairpins. And any actual attempts to do so were as likely to ruin more of the photographic plates than would have been improved, before they got their hand in (at great cost to unreusable materials), whilst I can try a small smudge and ''Undo'' it, with one of more Ctrl-Zs, if it actually does not improve any visual discrepancy...
::Depending upon the actual intent, I can think of many ways that a committed hoaxer (who is familiar with hoax-busting details) can at the very least maintain plausible doubt over any idea of image-manipulation, at least enough to keep those who 'want to believe' unconvinced by any suggestions that something (other than the scene attempted to be depicted) is clearly technically wrong. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.242|141.101.99.242]] 09:55, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:::Still, presumably that is more effort and requires considerably more expertise than clipping cardboard cutouts to some scenery. Whereas with today's cameras the clips may be more visible, and the visual characteristics of the cutouts may be more prominent. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 11:58, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::::If you only want to clip cardboard cutouts to scenery, it doesn't matter whether your camera is digital or analogue (but the grain of any decent analogue film will hold more detail than any CCD/whatever, if you want to let someone to check the negative or memory card directly). When faking it from that stage on, the electronic revision of an image is trivial compared to convincingly messing about with plates/film/etc. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.221|172.70.85.221]] 14:46, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:::::That depends on whether the cutouts are matte or gloss, and other things. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.88|172.70.211.88]] 15:37, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::::::??? Shouldn't be different between analogue and digital 'raw' capture. Equally good/bad effect (or maybe harder to fake on film because of the intrinsically higher resolution that could show up giveaway defects in your props). That's not the medium, it's just the materials used.
::::::Unless it's something like the old theory why vampires cannot be photographed (silver solution is mystically unable to record their image, like a silver mirror cannot reflect it (...with some hand-waviness about how it now shows whatever view ought to be obscured except for the vampiric nature of the person/clothing present...), but if you have a silver-free digital light sensor then there's no problem) matte or gloss or silk-finish have no issues. ...nah, that's too horror-geeky a caveat. Scratch that.
::::::Oh, except that if there's an unwanted (or desired) glare driectly into the camera lense, with a non-reflex film camera it would be hard to determine exactly what the final image looks like (and always without definite exposure levels, etc), but a 'live' electronic viewfinder helps immensely (as with a reflex viewfinder, in some ways). Or at least you could do a playback of the last shot onto the almost ubiquitous LCD screen, showing you where you went right or wrong in all your chosen f-stop/shutter-speed/focus/etc menu-options. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 16:26, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Are they comparing the copper ingot complaint to a forgery or a fake review? If the actual customer was lying about his copper ingots, I don't see what that has to do with deepfakes and photoshop forgeries. It seems to me that they're suggesting that someone other than the customer forged the message to Ea-Nasir, posing as the customer. [[User:Elizium23|Elizium23]] ([[User talk:Elizium23|talk]]) 02:21, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
:The idea is that lies in text are analogous to fake photos and videos. It doesn't really work for "deep" fakes, because it doesn't take sophisticated neural network methods to write e.g. "Elizium23 said they eat worms." [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 06:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2027: Lightning Distance

2022-07-25T23:39:10Z

172.70.91.128: Whoops, not a forum/BBCode... ;)

Calculations I used:

<math>t_1=\frac{s}{v_1}</math>

<math>t_2=\frac{s}{v_2}</math>

Substract:

<math>t_1-t_2=\Delta t=\frac{s}{v_1}-\frac{s}{v_2}=\frac{sv_2-sv_1}{v_1v_2}=s\frac{v_2-v_1}{v_1v_2}=s\frac{\Delta v}{v_1v_2}</math>

Therefore

<math>s=\Delta t\frac{v_1v_2}{\Delta v}</math>

I evaluated <math>\frac{v_1v_2}{\Delta v}</math> and it came to be 13.6 billion. Can someone verify it's correct? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.112|172.68.51.112]] 13:08, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:The comic begins with the question "how many miles away", so converting to kilometers isn't the right calculation.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.24|172.69.71.24]] 17:06, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I used refractive index for visible light of 1.000277 (air at STP as opposed to 0C 1atm) and arrived at around 7.9 billion instead. Refractive index of 1.000337 is then required for the radio waves for the comic to be correct. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.11.221|172.68.11.221]] 13:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:Do you mean 7.9 billion to convert to miles or to kilometers? Because my 13.6 bilion is to kilometers.

::I'm sure the actual comic is referring to miles and 5 billion was picked to match with the "divide by five" rule for miles. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.131|172.69.70.131]] 13:59, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:::I did mean kilometers. If we use miles, 1.000314 fits almost precisely! (5.04 billion) [[Special:Contributions/172.68.11.17|172.68.11.17]] 14:42, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

If you can count several seconds, as is suggested in the comic, the flash is still billions of miles away, the widest possible distance between Earth and Neptune is about 5 billion km. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.40|172.68.110.40]] 14:51, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:Not to mention that there's not a lot of air within a few billion miles of earth, so the dispersion will be much lower for all but the last 100-ish miles, AFAIK.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.142|172.68.54.142]] 20:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

::Also, while Jupiter has {{w|Great Red Spot|VERY gigantic storms}}, they are still too small to see the lightning from them from Earth. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:17, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Do you really need to know the spectrum of the flash? If we assume that a flash contains UV and X-ray radiation and that the visible light is generated at the same time as the UV or X-ray radiation then you only need to know the refractive index of light/UV/X-ray in air under the same temperature conditions and not the exact spectrum. [[User:Condor70|Condor70]] ([[User talk:Condor70|talk]])

:I initially made the mistake of thinking this referred to time difference between visible and UV/X-ray, but it specifically says "brightness." If you want to compare the brightness at a distance to the brightness at the source you'll need to know the brightness at the source, i.e. the spectrum of the flash itself. With this technique you don't need to know the dispersion "only" the relative attenuation, but I suspect that would be a more error-prone measurement.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.142|172.68.54.142]] 18:54, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I understand the joke Randall was going for, but have a problem with the wording. "Count the number of seconds" won't work for fractions of anything. "Measure" would work, but spoils the gag a bit. Counting numbers are integers; counting the seconds between the visible and radio frequency flashes will give you zero. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.24|172.69.71.24]] 17:00, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:You're certainly correct, but the joke works (for me at least) by its comparison to the standard rule of counting seconds, and humans are not generally precise enough to resolve better than one second. By keeping Megan's wording as close to the customary rule as possible I think it optimizes the humor. That "Billion" at the end is the whole joke for me, the replacement of "sound" with "radio wave" can be glossed-over on first reading, until you get to the unexpected extra 9 orders of magnitude in the conversion.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.142|172.68.54.142]] 18:54, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
::No, they would've been correct if she'd said "count the number of seconds" but she said "'''count the seconds'''".It's part of the joke, because it's correct, just completely impractical, because you'd be "counting" something like 10^(-10) seconds--[[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.47|172.68.132.47]] 07:23, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

::Just realized I also glossed-over the replacement of "divide" with "multiply." The brain is a funny thing.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.142|172.68.54.142]] 20:07, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:I took the "count the number of seconds" to be part of the joke, or rather Randall setting us up for the joke. [[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 02:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Do these account for the air pressure variability common in most thunderstorms?

I think explanation and transcript are pretty complete now. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.112|172.68.51.112]] 20:58, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

:There is the additional problem that a flash is no instantaneous, but progresses at a fraction of the speed of light. Who says that radio waves and light at different wavelenghts or xrays have their maximum at the same moment? ;-) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.59|162.158.91.59]] 08:05, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

:: I added a few words about the problem that a flash is not instantaneous and removed the 'incomplete' tag. Hope that's OK. [[User:Chrisahn|Chrisahn]] ([[User talk:Chrisahn|talk]]) 19:41, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Here's a variation of the calculation above that simplifies numeric evaluation:

The {{w|refractive index}} is defined as <math>n=\frac{c}{v}</math>, so <math>v=\frac{c}{n}</math> and thus <math>t=\frac{s}{v}=\frac{s\,n}{c}</math>.

<math>t_1=\frac{s\,n_1}{c}</math>

<math>t_2=\frac{s\,n_2}{c}</math>

Subtract:

<math>t_1-t_2=\Delta t=\frac{s\,n_1}{c}-\frac{s\,n_2}{c}=s\frac{n_1-n_2}{c}=s\frac{\Delta n}{c}</math>

Therefore

<math>s=\Delta t\frac{c}{\Delta n}</math>

and the factor we want to calculate is

<math>\frac{c}{\Delta n}</math>

With the numbers given in the sources in the main text:

<math>n_1=1.000315</math>

<math>n_2=1.000277</math>

<math>\Delta n=n_1-n_2=0.000038</math>

For kilometers: <math>\frac{c}{\Delta n}\approx\frac{300,000\,km/s}{0.000038}\approx7.9\cdot10^9\,km/s</math>

For miles: <math>\frac{c}{\Delta n}\approx\frac{186,000\,mi/s}{0.000038}\approx4.9\cdot10^9\,mi/s</math>

[[User:Chrisahn|Chrisahn]] ([[User talk:Chrisahn|talk]]) 18:28, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

:Nice one. I didn't think to use the refractive indicies directly. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.118|172.68.51.118]] 22:22, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

:Agreed, nice clear analysis by Chrisahn. I'd like to suggest a couple of corrections regarding the index values:
:* ''n'' for air at 0 C, 1 atm, is closer to 1.000292, according to both {{w|List_of_refractive_indices|the Wikipedia link}} and also the "Simple Shop-floor Formula" given by NIST at [https://emtoolbox.nist.gov/wavelength/documentation.asp the bottom of this site]. This would give a <math>{\Delta n}</math> of 0.000023, and a time-to-distance conversion value of <math>\frac{c}{\Delta n} \approx 7.9\cdot10^9</math> mi/s.
:* Thunderstorms rarely occur at 0 C. Using values for 30 C (86 F) instead, we have 1.000261 for air (from the simple NIST formula) and 1.000429 for radio waves (from Table 1, p. 8 of [https://www.fig.net/resources/proceedings/fig_proceedings/fig_2002/Js28/JS28_rueger.pdf the Rueger paper]). This gives a <math>{\Delta n}</math> of 0.000168, and a time-to-distance conversion value of <math>\frac{c}{\Delta n} \approx 1.1\cdot10^9</math> mi/s.
:This suggests that the conversion value is the desired 5 billion for ''some'' temperature between 0 and 30 C. Linear interpolation of the above suggests this temperature is about 13 C or 55 F [EDIT: See note after this comment]. More to the point, the conversion value varies too strongly with temperature for there to be a simple rule. That being said, I do like that the 5 billion figure ties in nicely with the familiar (in USA) ''divide by 5'' rule. [[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 02:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

::NOTE: Please ignore the linearly interpolated "13 C" above. It turns out ''n'' for radio waves is a highly nonlinear function of temperature. Plus the 1/Δ''n'' dependence -- where Δ''n'' changes by a factor of 7 or 8 -- makes the nonlinearity even worse. --[[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 01:05, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

'''Assumptions on the medium properties sound?'''

Refractive index of *dry* air might be pretty close to 1 for both light and RF EM waves, but:

Let's assume that the air is humid, if not even full of water drops. After all, lightning.

Let's further assume that an air/water mixture or solution has electromagnetic properties between these two materials.

In water, refractive index for light is about <math>n_{\text{water, optical}}=1.33 n_{\text{air, optical}}</math>, (as easily demonstrated by the optical refractive effects); for RF, we typically use values of <math>\frac{n_{\text{water, RF}}^2}{\mu_r}=\epsilon\approx 80</math>. So, <math>n_{\text{water, RF}}\approx \sqrt{80}n_{\text{air, RF}}</math>.

Let's assume a 10⁻³ "EM-effective" water content in the comic air.

That would lead to <math>\frac{v_{\text{opt.}}}{v_{\text{RF}}} = \frac{\frac34}{\sqrt{80}^{-1}}= \frac34\sqrt{80}=6.7</math>.

:While the humidity (amount of water vapor) is certainly higher during the rain, I don't think that would count as a proper "water-air mixture". Wikipedia says that "Violent rain" is above 5 cm/h. If you divide it by 3600 (to get cm/s), and then imagine stretching that all the way to the cloud, you'll find out there's not that much water at given moment in the air. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.112|172.68.51.112]] 19:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

::Great point. To finish the calculation let's use a typical terminal velocity for a large raindrop (it's a big storm, I'm sure) of 9m/s. 0.05 m/hr / 3600 s/hr / 9 m/s = 0.00015% water by volume. Sure seems like more than that when I have to drive through it! Then it seems more like [http://what-if.xkcd.com/12/].[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.142|172.68.54.142]] 20:32, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

<code>we can't detect radiation outside the visible spectrum without very specialized instruments</code> Something that I think was overlooked in the explanation is that while humans can't *directly* sense radio waves, there are devices called "radios" which at one point in time were fairly commonly owned by humans, whose whole purpose is to detect encoded radio waves and convert them into sounds which humans can sense. I.e. you hear static during an electrical storm. So you could listen for the static and compare that to the flash... if you were fast enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.64|172.68.54.64]] 14:22, 3 August 2018 (UTC) (newbie)

:But radios ARE specialized equipment. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.52|172.68.51.52]] 10:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

::Ehh... I see your point, but I'm not sure I'm *really* convinced. In my mind, a Gamma Ray Spectrometer is specialized equipment. People don't normally have them in their house or car. Radios are (or, at least, *were*) very common. But you're right, it says specialized instrument, not "rare" instrument. I'm not changing the explanation, just wanted to point out for those geeky enough to read the comments that for normal people, *detecting* the radio wave output lightning is doable without buying extra equipment one doesn't normally have in the home. Detecting the difference between the flash and the static on the radio is where it gets impractical. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.64|172.68.54.64]] 15:01, 6 August 2018 (UTC) (newbie)

:::Keep in mind, if you're using radios (normal consumer receiver/amp/speaker setups) to pick up the radio-frequency emissions, and eyes the visible light, you have to add the speed of sound back into the equation, based on the distance between the speaker and your ear. Plus, there would inevitably be the delay for the circuitry in the radio, plus the delay in your perceptions. At the nanosecond scale, the difference in length between optic and auditory tracts in your cerebral innervation and brain would be more than enough to swamp any effect of the lightspeed variation. Thus: specialized equipment would be needed. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 20:02, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

::::Unless you're listening to digital radio (with decoding delays, which is why you shouldn't depend upon DAB audio of [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_Time_Signal "The Pips"], but probably also won't reliably render the interference derived from the lightning) the circuitry in the radio won't significantly delay things. It's barely buffered by FM or AM being processed to extract the raw audio (original, or pseudo-original interpretation of the intergerence) and the wiring between components barely adds anything. 570 nanoseconds per 100m of wire (for a 1Mhz signal, lower frequencies can take longer, but not that much), is one estimate of wire-lenth delay, and you probably don't have that much length wrapped around inside your transistor radio. (Elsewhere, 75% of c is quoted, in saying that it's maybe a couple of tens of milliseconds delay across a distance between New York and Los Angeles, by a probably non-direct cable, after removing relay and protocol-processing delays.)
::::Obviously when multiplying by 5 (or more) billion, the increased (or decreased) delay does become significantly more maladjusted (and significant) from the original premise, but that surely applies far more to the audio/perceptive/reactive delays, however you calculate those. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13|172.70.85.13]] 23:37, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

'''Whoops!'''

I always thought it was 1 second per mile. I didn't know about the 'divide by 5" part. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 01:23, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

:Storms just became 5 times more scary for you :) [[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.95|188.114.103.95]] 12:12, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

== Actually... ==

There's a citizen science project called blitzortung.org that uses special radio receivers to sample the lightning 's signature, compare it with the other receivers and use gps time to triangulate its position!
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.175|141.101.69.175]] 12:37, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

1488: Flowcharts

2022-07-22T01:32:21Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 289888 by 172.71.102.65 ([[User talk:172.71.102.65|talk] Actual fix

{{distinguish|518: Flow Charts}}
{{comic
| number = 1488
| date = February 18, 2015
| title = Flowcharts
| image = flowcharts.png
| titletext = Whoa, and if you overlay a Fibonacci spiral on a golden spiral it matches up almost perfectly!
}}
*If you click on the comic at xkcd you get to a [http://xkcd.com/spiral/ spiral] page on xkcd.
*The arrow at the bottom of this comic points to the [http://c.xkcd.com/random/comic/ "Random" button] at the bottom of the xkcd page.
**You can go to the comic, as always, by clicking on the date line above this comic.

==Explanation==
'''Note''': A flawed version of this comic was posted at first and then quickly a correct version was uploaded. But this gave rise to several misunderstandings and confusion. See the [[#Trivia|Trivia]] section below.

This comic is a {{w|flowchart}} style, like many [[Category:Flowcharts|other comics]]. Interestingly, the first option, ''Do you like flowcharts?'' loops back to itself if you say ''Yes''. As the yes lines of other options point to the type of graph they describe (for example, the yes line of ''Do you like line graphs?'' points to a line graph), this may be interpreted as a recursive reference to the flowchart itself, although it points to the option itself rather than the ''START'' node. Also, this may cause the reader who actually likes flow charts to go into an endless loop of choosing ''Yes'', until they are so annoyed by flowcharts that they do not like them anymore and can progress by saying ''No''.

After asking about flowcharts, the reader is asked whether they like {{w|line graph|line graphs}}. If they follow the yes line, it becomes a line graph where "Time" is the x-axis and "Your Happiness" is the y-axis, and shows that your happiness increases with time. If you don't like line graphs, they are asked the same question about {{w|scatter plots}} where again the lines turn into the points and the axis of such a plot.

Taking yet another line, the reader is asked "Charge a battery?" If they follow the line marked yes they are asked whether they are {{w|Alternating current|A/C}} or {{w|Direct current|D/C}} current and are led to a portion of the flowchart which resembles a {{w|circuit diagram}} of a {{w|rectifier bridge}} with a battery connected to it.

If the reader follows the "no" line, they are asked if they like spirals. If they choose "no" they are asked whether they would take the {{w|path of least resistance}}. This part of the flowchart resembles a circuit diagram, and the word "{{w|resistance}}" is a pun because resistance can have several meanings. In electricity it is an electrical quantity that measures how the device or material impedes the electric current flow through it. Going left is the "Never" option, which goes through extra resistors and a diode, therefore making the "Yes" option the "path of least resistance". However, when asked if you choose the path of least resistance and answers ''never'' it could also mean that you do not try to avoid a little trouble.

Whether they choose "Yes" or "No", they arrive at "Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?" If they choose "yes" the line fades into a drawing of a golden spiral, and we see that the flowchart is structured around it. If they choose "no" they are asked if they are tired of flowcharts. If not, they are taken to the beginning to start over again. If they are tired, the line points to the "random" button on the xkcd website.

The title text and the faint image of a {{w|golden spiral}} parody the fact that the golden spiral is superimposed on nearly ''everything''. The golden spiral is a spiral that has the growth rate of the golden ratio, a number that has inspired both artists and mathematicians alike. However, people try to find the golden ratio in seemingly random objects, and they fall to confirmation bias when drawing a golden spiral on top that seemingly fits. The comic links to [http://xkcd.com/spiral/], where one can see exactly that- golden spirals Randall "found" in random photographs. This may be a spoof of the viral video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPCkcKNUVoo Illuminati Confirmed]. The limit of the ratio of two consecutive terms of the Fibonacci sequence is equal to the golden ratio, so a Fibonacci spiral matches up almost perfectly for a good reason, unlike the coincidental matchings of the pictures in the mobile site link.

This comic bears reminiscence of [[730: Circuit Diagram]], although it is not exactly the same idea. Putting a golden spiral over other things was again used in [[2322: ISO Paper Size Golden Spiral]], like the [http://xkcd.com/spiral/ spiral] page on xkcd which this comic is a link to.

===List of Items in Flowchart===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Text in boxes
! Explanation
! Successor(s)
! Predecessor(s)
|-
| Start
| Start here
| Do you like flowcharts?
| Tired of flowcharts yet?
|-
| Do you like flowcharts?
| Asking whether or not the reader likes flow charts. Recursively returns to itself until the reader is annoyed enough to not like flowcharts and can move on to the next point.
| Do you like flowcharts?, Do you like line graphs?
| Start, Do you like flowcharts?
|-
| Do you like line graphs?
| It asks if you like {{w|line graph|line graphs}}
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to line graphs], Scatter plots?
| Do you like flowcharts?
|-
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to line graphs]
| It is asking if you wish to be the data or the axis. If you choose the line, the flow chart line turns into a line graph with a positive curve. The same question will be asked later if you say no to line graphs and yes to scatter plots.
| [A line in a line graph], Time or your happiness?
| Do you like line graphs?
|-
| Time or your happiness?
| If you choose ''time'' the flow chart line becomes the x-axis of time and if you choose ''your happiness'' it becomes the y-axis in the line graph with the line from before indicating that your happiness increases over time (maybe because you like line graphs and are now becoming part of one?)
| [Time axis], [Your Happiness axis]
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to line graphs]
|-
| Scatter plots?
| If you don't like line graphs then maybe you like {{w|scatterplot|scatter plots}}?
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to scatter plots], Help charge a battery?
| Do you like line graphs?
|-
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to scatter plots]
| It is asking if you wish to be the data or the axis. If you choose the data, the flow chart line turns into a scatter plot that is also a flowchart where each of the 10 flow chart boxes is black with two white arrow, one pointing up and the other to the right. They are all connected with multiple connections. The same question was asked earlier if you said yes to line graphs.
| [A flow chart that looks line points in in a scatter plot], X of Y?
| Scatter plots?
|-
| X or Y?
| Which axis do you prefer? The line you chooses turns in to this axis in the scatter plot.
| [X axis], [Y axis]
| Data or axis? [The one after yes to scatter plots]
|-
| Help charge a battery?
| From here on the flowchart is at the beginning of morphing into a circuit diagram.
| Like spirals?, Are you A/C or D/C?
| Scatter plots?
|-
| Are you A/C or D/C?,
| Asks whether you are an {{w|AC current}} or a {{w|DC current}}.
| Positive or negative phase?, positive or negative DC terminal?
| Help charging a battery?
|-
| Positive or negative phase?
| Conventional current will flow forwards during the positive phase of AC current, whereas in the negative phase the forwards directions matches the actual flow of electrons (see [[567: Urgent Mission]]).
| Positive or negative DC terminal? [To either side of this box]
| Are you A/C or D/C?
|-
| Positive or negative DC terminal?
| This box looks like a {{w|rectifier bridge}}, which is used to convert AC to DC. The single output leads to a battery which is joined in a circuit to the bottom of the rectifier bridge.
| Battery [plus or minus]
| Positive or negative phase?
|-
| Like spirals?
| Well, do you? If you do you instantly go to the question of golden spirals. If not you take a detour.
| Take the path of least resistance?, Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?
| Help charge a battery?
|-
| Take the path of least resistance?
| This one is a pun. If resistance is seen as electrical resistance, then the bottom one labeled ''yes'' is the one with least resistance. The other labeled "Never" sends you through ''more'' resistance, and a 'protective' diode. But in either case you are lead to the same decision box. Also the resistors could look like spirals - making this detour for those who dislike these even more painful.
| Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?
| Like spirals?
|-
| Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?
| Here is a question regarding if you like the idea that some people can find and superimpose a {{w|golden spiral}} on a random image. No matter which options you choose you are forced to admit that it is totally BS ({{w|bullshit}}). But maybe you like it anyway? If you choose the ''Yes, even though it's total BS'' option the flow chart continues to the side of the chart, then starts to spiral up only to fades out to a very faint golden spiral aligned to the other items in the flow chart. It is almost impossible to see it before you follow this line. The other option is of course ''No, it's total BS''. If you do like it - then click on the [http://www.xkcd.com/1488/ comic on xkcd].
| Tired of flowcharts yet?, [A very faint golden spiral]
| Like spirals?, Take the path of least resistance?
|-
| Tired of flowcharts yet?
| Have you had enough of flow chart? If not then you are returned to the ''start'' box at the top of the chart. Maybe you have not tried all options yet, although you have already answered that you are tired of flow charts if you get this far. If you have had enough and answers ''Yes, I want to look at something else'' this option leads to the random comic button below the comic (only on xkcd). This decision ''literally'' breaks the fourth wall in traveling through the image's nominal boundary to point at a specific button to look at some other comic.
| Start, [The xkcd [http://c.xkcd.com/random/comic/ Random] comic button]
| Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?
|}

==Transcript==
:[A flow chart. The first option the start box is white text on a black rectangle. The other boxes are rhombuses standing on edge. Except for the first there are always two options going out. Most only have one option coming in, but there are exceptions with two options going in.]
:Start
:[One arrow points to the first real choice.]
:[Below the text on the two options going out from each option will be indented. The top of these two options will be the one to be mentioned first below. Then the chart will be mapped like this going back to the previous unfinished option.]
:Do you like flowcharts?
::Yes
::No
:[Yes goes back where it came from.]
:Do you like line graphs?
::Yes
::No
:Data or axis?
::Line
::Axis
:[The line is just a line – but now as the line in a line graph.]
:Time or your happiness?
::Time
::Your happiness
:[These two lines turn into the x and y axis of the line graph.]
:Scatter plots?
::Yes
::No
:Data or axis?
::Data
::Axis
:[The data line turns into the points in a scatter plot.]
:X or Y?
::X
::Y
:[These two lines turn into the x and y axis of the scatter plot.]
:Help charge a battery?
::Yes
::No
:Are you A/C or D/C?,
::A/C
::D/C
:Positive or negative phase?
::+
::-
:[The D/C option also goes to this next option, but directly. This next rhombus looks like a part of a circuit diagram.]
:Positive or negative DC terminal?
::+
::-
:[These two lines goes to the + and – poles of a battery.]
:Like spirals?
::No
::Yes
:Take the path of least resistance?
::Never
::Yes
:[Never goes through two resistors and a diode before reaching the point of the Yes option, which then also goes though yet another resistor. Both thus end at the same option, which is also the one that Yes to like Spirals ends up at:]
:Do you like when people find the golden spiral in random images?
::Yes, even though it's total BS.
::No, it's total BS.
:[Yes option takes the chart into a fading line that turns into a golden spiral spanning the whole chart.]
:Tired of flowcharts yet?
::No
::Yes, I want to look at something else
:[No takes you back to the start box at the top.]
:[Yes takes you out of the comic and points to the Random button at xkcd.]

==Trivia==
*A corrected version of the comic was uploaded later on the same day.
**This is the second time in February 2015 this has occurred; previously with [[1482: NowPlaying]].
*It appears that an unfinished version of the comic was uploaded, with several of the lines and labels missing, and the bridge circuit incorrectly drawn.
*This [[Media:OriginalFlowcharts.png|original]] comic can be seen on the link.
*The errors were:
**Missing yes/no at the line graph options.
**Missing yes/no at the scatter plot options and missing the line for the yes option going to the second Data axis.
**Missing yes at charge a battery options.
**Missing DC from the AC or DC options and missing the line for the DC option going to the terminal.
**Missing the arrow pointing to the terminal from the "-" option of the phase.
**Missing +/- at terminal option and missing the line going from the negative pole of the battery to the terminal.
**The terminal, which is a rectifier bridge, had both diodes drawn in the wrong direction on the left side of the decision box.
**There was a + floating between the phase and terminal option. This was deleted.
**Missing yes at the spiral options.
**Missing yes/never! at the least resistance options. Also the arrow pointing to the next option was missing.
*The comic has reference to charging a battery, and was posted on the 270th birthday of Alessandro Volta, the original creator of the battery. This could, however, have been a coincidence.
*Later after the initial release of this comic Randall added a link to this page. It's viewable in the HTML-source or here: [https://xkcd.com/1488/info.0.json https://xkcd.com/1488/info.0.json]. The text is: ''"This is a gods-damned flowchart, huge surprise. a transcription and explanation and other things available on an external site http:\n\nwww.explainxkcd.com\nwiki\nindex.php\n1488 ]]\nhttp:\n\nwww.explainxkcd.com\nwiki\nindex.php\n148"''.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Flowcharts]]
[[Category:Scatter plots]]
[[Category:Line graphs]]
[[Category:Puns]]

247: Factoring the Time

2022-07-22T01:29:08Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 289887 by 141.101.110.189 (talk) Don't believe you have the maturity demanded from Reddit.

{{comic
| number = 247
| date = April 11, 2007
| title = Factoring the Time
| image = factoring_the_time.png
| titletext = I occasionally do this with mile markers on the highway.
}}
==Explanation==
In this comic, [[Cueball]] is bored, so he is calculating the {{w|Prime factor|prime factors}} of the time shown on the clock. Cueball has been doing this for almost two hours (from 1:00 pm to 2:53 pm). The number 2 is the smallest prime but is not a factor of 253, which is an odd number. The smallest prime factor of 253 is 11, which makes the other factor 23.

His co-worker decides to mess with Cueball, so he switches the clock from 12-hour time (2:53 pm) to 24-hour time (14:53). This makes factorization more difficult, as the time now shown is a four digit number rather than a three digit number. The number 1,453 is actually a prime number, and so has no factors but one and itself. Cueball has less than one minute to determine this, which is nearly impossible to do without practice. In this time, Cueball would have to calculate if 1,453 is divisible by all primes between 2 and the square root of 1,453, which are 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19, 23, 29, 31, and 37. However, there are {{w|Divisibility_rule|tricks}} to help you do this more quickly than doing {{w|Long_division|long divisions}}.

In the title text, [[Randall]] claims that he applies the same challenge to {{w|highway location marker}}s. At highway speeds (60+ mph), they would show up at least once per minute. Combined with the need to also concentrate on driving, factorizing numbers in the allowed time becomes much more difficult despite the lower numbers on the markers. Also, paying attention to the road markers instead of the road itself would be quite terrifying, and could cause a car crash at more than 60 mph. Obviously, this would be bad.{{Citation needed}}

An additional challenge would be to change the mile markers to kilometer markers (because as with the clock format, the latter is more common outside of the USA). That would result in the marker being a 1.6 times larger number, and thus harder to factor. Of course, factoring is now a secondary problem, as markers would appear 1.6 times as frequently.

==Transcript==
:[One man is sitting at a computer. Cueball sits at a separate desk. There is a clock that reads 2:53.]
:Cueball: 253 is 11x23
:Man at computer: What?
:Cueball: I'm factoring the time.

:[Zoomed in on Cueball, who explains himself.]
:Cueball: I have nothing to do, so I'm trying to calculate the prime factors of the time each minute before it changes.
:Cueball: It was easy when I started at 1:00, but with each hour the number gets bigger
:Cueball: I wonder how long I can keep up.

:[Zoomed back out on the man and Cueball. The man at the desk reaches back and touches the clock.]
:''BEEP''

:[Clock now reads 14:53.]
:Cueball: Hey!
:Man at computer: Think fast.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category:Number theory]]

2647: Capri Suns

2022-07-21T18:22:36Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 289778 by Theusaf (talk) The attempt HAS derailled when they NOTICE (rather than HAD derailed when they NOTICED). Either, really, but the situation is also begins, not had not began...

{{comic
| number = 2647
| date = July 18, 2022
| title = Capri Suns
| image = capri_suns.png
| titletext = [As security is dragging me away] "Come on, at least I didn't make the mistake in the other direction!"
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by a SPECIAL OPERATIVE TRYING TO HANDLE A DISGUSTED NURSE - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
[[Cueball]] has been impersonating a doctor at a hospital. But his attempt to fool the staff (including [[Megan]] and [[:Category:Doctor Ponytail|Doctor Ponytail]]) fails when he mistakes a saline bag (labeled "saline" when zoomed in) for a Capri Sun juice drink.

{{w|Capri Sun}} is a fruit juice concentrate beverage that comes in soft rectangular mylar bags with a small seal near the top, to be pierced with an included straw so as to sip the drink. {{w|Saline (medicine)|Saline}} bags, used in hospitals and other medical settings, are also soft and rectangular, with an {{w|Intravenous therapy#Medical uses|intravenous}} (I.V.) drip connection about the same size as such straws, and usually contain a 0.9% sodium chloride (table salt) solution in sterile water so they are salty enough to be {{w|Tonicity#Isotonicity|isotonic}} with blood. Capri Sun is mostly sugar water, and only 0.00008% salt,[https://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/food-volume-to-weight/substance/capri-blank-sun-coma-and-blank-fruit-blank-juice-blank-drink] so it tastes sweet instead.

Almost everyone would be very unlikely to accidentally mistake saline bags for Capri Sun, especially a medical doctor.{{Citation needed}} Cueball begins to realize that his attempt to impersonate a doctor has derailed when the hospital staff notice that he made such an absurdly unlikely and therefore humorous error.

The title text makes it clear that Cueball is being removed from the hospital by security personnel. While they are dragging him out, he tries to point out that drinking saline is better than putting Capri Sun into a patient's I.V. drip, as it would endanger the patient,[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-47623816] arguing that this mitigates the severity of his transgression. The guards apprehending him are unlikely to be persuaded, as impersonating hospital staff is a serious offense with dangerous risks and severe consequences. In California, the unlicensed practice of medicine can result in a maximum $10,000 fine, up to three years in prison, or both.[https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=BPC&sectionNum=2052.]

The comic arguably continues [[451: Impostor]] and [[699: Trimester]].

==Transcript==
:[Cueball, wearing a lab coat, is drinking out of a straw inserted into an IV drip bag that is labeled "saline" (on the 2x image; it is rendered unreadable on the standard resolution version, just like the rest of the label's squiggles). Cueball is surrounded by hospital staff. To the left is Megan with a white hat, she is holding a clipboard, with a paper with unreadable text. To his right is Dr. Ponytail holding a rolled up paper under one arm and, to the right of her, a man with a similar hat as Megan. They are all looking at Cueball.]
:Cueball: You know, these Capri Suns are good, but they're ''really'' salty.

:[Caption below the panel:]
:I think the hospital may be starting to realize that I'm not actually a doctor.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Doctor Ponytail]]
[[Category:Characters with hats]]
[[Category:Medicine]]
[[Category:Food]]

2648: Chemicals

2022-07-21T07:23:11Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 289743 by 172.70.130.217 (talk)

{{comic
| number = 2648
| date = July 20, 2022
| title = Chemicals
| image = chemicals.png
| titletext = It's hard to believe, but lots of kids these days ONLY know how to buy prepackaged molecules.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by BIG ISOMER - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

In this comic, [[Megan]] mentions that her company spends a lot on chemicals for which you can find formulas online. She suggests assembling chemicals from atoms "bought in bulk," holding a sheet of paper with the {{w|empirical formula}} C6H5NO2 which designates [https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/#query=C6H5NO2 more than a hundred compounds and ions] including {{w|nitrobenzene}}, {{w|niacin}}, {{w|isonicotinic acid}}, and {{w|picolinic acid}}, followed by their component elements listed with prices. The ambiguity of chemical formulae is one of the jokes in the comic.

While in-house {{w|chemical synthesis}} is sometimes cost effective, usually it is not, because end users are often unable to leverage the {{w|economies of scale}} inherent in bulk manufacturing by specialist industrial firms.[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2880393/] However, we don't know whether Megan and [[Cueball]] work in a laboratory, factory, or some other industrial setting. In-house chemical syntheses in factories using large volumes often ''are'' cost-effective, as can be laboratory syntheses of very small quantities.

In any case, producing chemicals from their constituent elements or {{w|Precursor (chemistry)|precursor compound}}s is difficult, time-consuming, requires expensive equipment, and is often fraught with peril.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QwW2owNWgc] Nitrobenzene, one of the C6H5NO2 compounds, is an excellent example because it is explosive, extremely toxic, and its synthesis is highly exothermic, making it one of the most dangerous syntheses in the chemical industry.[https://www.icheme.org/media/10339/xiii-paper-36.pdf] Such issues answer Cueball's question as to why more places don't manufacture their own chemicals. The characters' naivety also gives rise to the humor of the comic, which may also be mocking DIY lifehacks where the cost savings only make sense if their massive time investment is ignored. "Big Molecule" is an [[2130: Industry Nicknames|industry nickname like Big Oil or Big Pharma]], and amusing in its own right.

The title text refers to the fact that many people believe that "kids these days" don't do enough work or are spoiled. Randall has expressed that he dislikes statements like these in [[2165: Millennials|previous comics]].

This comic may have been prompted by recent news that [https://english.elpais.com/science-tech/2022-07-15/for-the-first-time-in-history-we-can-modify-atomic-bonds-in-a-single-molecule.html scientists have found a way to assemble and change atoms in individual molecules] by modifying their bonds.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[Megan and Cueball standing next to each other. Megan has her palms raised.]
:Megan: You know how our company spends a lot on expensive chemicals?
:Cueball: Yeah?

:[Megan holding up a piece of paper with a chemical formula on it, as well as some computation for the number of atoms needed]
:Megan: Well, I just learned you can look up all of the formulas online!
:Megan: We can just buy the atoms in bulk and assemble them here!
:[The paper reads as follows. The illegible items appear to be prices.]
:C6H5NO2
:Carbon 6 $[illegible]
:Hydrogen 5 $[illegible]
:Nitrogen 1 $[illegible]
:Oxygen 2 $[illegible]
:Total 14 $[illegible]

:[Cueball still standing. Megan walking off-panel to the right]
:Cueball: I wonder why more places don't do that.
:Megan: People have no idea they're getting ripped off by Big Molecule!

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Chemistry]]

1864: City Nicknames

2022-06-16T18:40:58Z

172.70.91.128: Added information about this place name

{{comic
| number = 1864
| date = July 17, 2017
| title = City Nicknames
| image = city_nicknames.png
| titletext = This place has so many demonyms. Northlanders. Fair Folk. Honey Barons. Lake Dwellers. Treasurers. Swamp Watchers. Dream Farmers. Wellfolk. Rockeaters. Forgotten Royals. Remote Clients. Barrow-Clerks. The People of Land and Sky.
}}

==Explanation==

Cities often have official or unofficial nicknames. For instance, {{w|St. Louis|St. Louis, Missouri}}, is known as "Gateway to the West" among several other nicknames. The nicknames typically invoke some historical or geographic feature of the city, but can sometime be opaque to those not familiar with the city. [https://www.into-asia.com/bangkok/introduction/fullname.php The full, formal name of Bangkok] includes a long list of superlatives translating as "The city of angels, the great city, the residence of the Emerald Buddha, the impregnable city (of Ayutthaya) of God Indra, the grand capital of the world endowed with nine precious gems, the happy city, abounding in an enormous Royal Palace that resembles the heavenly abode where reigns the reincarnated god, a city given by Indra and built by Vishnukarn."

Despite the skyline being clearly recognizable as St. Louis due to the {{w|Gateway Arch}}, [[Black Hat]] calls it {{w|New York City}}. However, the nickname he gives is neither a common New York nickname (such as "{{w|List of nicknames of New York City|The Big Apple}}") nor a St. Louis nickname. [[Megan]] tries to correct him, but it becomes clear that Black Hat is making up nicknames. Many of his suggestions are puns for real nicknames of other places.

The title text contains made up {{w|demonym}}s in the same pattern. A demonym is a word for the people who live in a particular place. They are typically derived from the name of the place (e.g. "St. Louisan" for people from St. Louis, or New Yorker for those from New York), but some regions have an {{w|Demonym#Informal|informal demonym}} that can be used colloquially by those familiar with the place to refer to its residents (e.g. Hoosier for people from Indiana).

===Nicknames and Demonyms===

{| class=wikitable
! City nickname in comic
! Reference
! Explanation

|-
| The Hot Tamale
| {{w|Hot Tamales}}
| Possibly a reference to the term [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=big%20enchilada big enchilada] (something of great importance). In the movie [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_(1996_film) Independence Day], the phrase "Big Tamale" is used in a similar manner as "Big Enchilada" to describe the alien fighter held at Area 51.

|-
| The Winged City
| The Windy City
| Chicago. Possibly also [http://www.airport-technology.com/projects/incheon-international-airport/ Incheon International Airport (ICA/RKSI), South Korea].

|-
| The Gold Trombone
|
| Possibly a reference to the {{w|Golden Horn}} in Istanbul.

|-
| Castleopolis
| {{w|Cassopolis}}, or possibly Dictionopolis.
| Literally "Castle city." {{w|Polis}} (from the Greek πόλις for city) is commonly used as a suffix for city names, like {{w|Minneapolis}} or {{w|Alexandroupolis}}; {{w|Metropolis}} can either be a type of city, or one of the real or fictional cities bearing the name. Possibly a reference to The Phantom Tollbooth, which has both castles and cities named Dictionopolis and Digitopolis. In the Industrial Revolution, places known for certain industries had nicknames such as {{w|Cottonopolis}} ({{w|Manchester}}), Copperopolis ({{w|Swansea}}) and Juteopolis ({{w|Dundee}}). Could also be a city in {{w|Castlevania}}.

|-
| The Kissing Kingdom
| {{w|United Kingdom}}
| This would make a ''Very'' United Kingdom.

|-
| Sandland
|
| {{w|Sandland}} is a village in northern Norway, most likely coincidentally.

|-
| The High Place
| {{w|Denver}}
|Denver is known as the Mile High City. Also, in English translations of the Old Testament, the Hebrew term במה (bamah, plural במות bamot) is rendered as "{{w|high place}}," and denotes a place of worship. In modern Jewish synagogues, the "High Place" (bimah) is the elevated platform from which the Torah is read. In Gene Wolfe's ''Free Live Free'', one character claims to come from the "High Place". The others consider this a metaphor, or simply a lie. Eventually this is discovered not to be the case. It could also a reference to {{w|The Man in the High Castle}}, a novel by {{w|Philip K. Dick}} which was adapted into a TV series (at the time of this comic, two seasons had been produced and a third is expected before the end of 2017).

|-
| Ol' Ironhook
| {{w|Old Ironsides}}
| Old Ironsides is a nickname for the USS Constitution (docked in Charlestown, MA). Ol' Ironhook may be a conflation of Old Ironsides (also a nickname for English Lord Protector Oliver Cromwell) with Old Hookey (a nickname for Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington, English general and PM, who was also nicknamed The Iron Duke) or Old Kinderhook (a nickname for US President Martin Van Buren).
|-
| The Thousand Spires || The City of a Hundred Spires / City of Dreaming Spires|| Prague / Oxford.
|-
| The Graveyard of Kings || The Graveyard of Champions / City of Kings / Graveyard of Empires || ''Graveyard'': Court 2 at Wimbledon, where former champions are often defeated (the playing environment is very different from Centre Court and Court One, which are larger and where games involving highly-ranked players are preferentially located). The comic was released one day after the 2017 Wimbledon Championships were finished. ''Kings'': Nickname of [[wikipedia:Lima|Lima, Peru]] and [[wikipedia:Palermo|Palermo, Sicily]]. The {{w|Valley of the Kings}} in Egypt is literally a graveyard of kings, namely the Pharaohs.
Alternatively, Afghanistan is also known as the "Graveyard of Empires" due to its success in defending against would-be conquerors.
|-
| Bloomtown || [[wikipedia: Boomtown|Boomtown]] || Generic term for a town undergoing rapid growth. Used in the 2002 TV series of the same name as a nickname for Los Angeles. Might also be referring to [[wikipedia:Bloom County|Bloom County]], a comic by [[wikipedia:Berkeley Breathed|Berkeley Breathed]], or Dublin, as the setting for Ulysses by James Joyce. Bloomtown also invokes an image of many flowers, so it could be a reference to a large garden, or a city known for its gardens or flowers. The [[wikipedia: Bloomsbury | Bloomsbury]] district of London is famous as a location for intellectuals and writers, and publishing houses.
|-
| Lantern City USA || {{w|Tree City USA}} || A designation supporting municipalities that showcase urban forestry, in connection with Arbor Day. Lantern city is a fictional, steam-punk serial.
|-
| The City of Many Daughters || {{w|City of Daughters}} || Might be a reference to {{w|City of Daughters}} album by [[wikipedia:Destroyer (band)|Destroyer]].
|-
| Big Mauve || [[wikipedia: Big_Red_(drink)|Big Red Soda]] || Big Red Soda. Big Red is also a chewing gum by Wrigley's. The Cornell teams are known as the [[wikipedia:Cornell Big Red|Big Red]] as is Western Kentucky's mascot [[wikipedia:Big Red (Western Kentucky University)|Big Red]]. The Dartmouth football team is the Big Green. IBM is sometimes known as Big Blue.
|-
| The Glass Cradle || [[wikipedia:The Glass Menagerie|The Glass Menagerie]] || A play by Tennessee Williams. Or Golden Cradle, referencing Mesopotamia.
|-
| The Road Source ||{{w|Rome}} || From the saying that {{w|All Roads Lead to Rome}}. Possibly Rome's antipode (in the Pacific Ocean, a little east of New Zealand), since the saying makes Rome the Road Sink.
|-
| London Prime || London || In the DC comics, to incorporate multiple continuties, there were multiple universes. London Prime would be "real London" on Earth Prime. Various cities named {{w|New London}} in the United States and elsewhere are imagined as London in alternate continuities. Alternatively in mathematics, a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_(symbol)#Use_in_mathematics.2C_statistics.2C_and_science prime mark], x' can be the next iteration of variable x.
|-
| Hamtown || {{w|Boston}}, {{w|Hamburg}}, {{w|Toronto}} || Boston is known as [[wikipedia:Boston nicknames|beantown]], pork and beans are commonly cooked together (as in {{w|Boston baked beans}}), and ham is a form of pork. The German word ''Burg'' means castle or fort and is often used as suffix for town names. The origin of the prefix ''Ham'' is uncertain, but the food {{w|Hamburger}} derives from this city and ''Hamburger'' in German is the demonym of Hamburg. Toronto is sometimes nicknamed Hogtown.
|-
| The Salad Bowl || || A theory of cultural integration in the US, one that stands in contrast to the older 'Melting Pot' theory. Could also refer to the [[wikipedia: Dust Bowl|Dust Bowl]]. Could also refer to Salinas, CA, the "Salad Bowl of the world".
|-
| God's Boudoir || God's Waiting Room || State of {{w|Florida}}, where many elderly retire then expire. As a ''{{w|boudoir}}'' is a room reserved for a female (host), this usage would implicate that either God is a woman, or that God frequents there often.
|-
| The Glittering Swamp || [[wikipedia:Great Dismal Swamp|The Great Dismal Swamp ]], {{w|Washington, D.C.}} || A large swamp in Virginia and North Carolina. Also, the city of {{w|Washington, D.C.}} has often been referred to as a "swamp," owing partly to its past as a [http://networks.h-net.org/node/28441/pages/36129/swamps-and-city-washington malarial swamp].
|-
| The Steel Forest || The Concrete Jungle || The Concrete Jungle is a name often given to New York's Manhattan area. There was also a book and movie titled ''The Petrified Forest''.
|-
| The Mobius Strip || The Strip || The Strip is a shortened and commonly used name for the Las Vegas Strip, the main area of hotels and casinos in Las Vegas, Nevada. A {{w|Mobius strip}} is a one-sided piece of paper created by rotating the short edge of the strip 180 degrees and attaching it to the other short edge. The Vegas strip has more or less only one side as well.
|-
| The Land of Trains and Fog || || Britain was home to early developments in railroading, and some portions are known for fog and mists.
In the webcomic [[wikipedia:Homestuck | Homestuck]] many events take place on various planets named in the format "Land of X and Y", e.g. "Land of Light and Rain". A series of novels by George R.R. Martin, which was made into the ''Game of Thrones'' TV show, is called ''A Song of Ice and Fire''. The Grand Canyon is known as "The House of Stone and Light" by some native people.
|-
| The Meeting Place || [[wikipedia:Canberra|Canberra]] || The capital city of Australia has its name derived from 'Meeting Place' in the local Aboriginal language, because of a seasonal food boom (Bogong Moths) that drew tribes to the area each year.
|-
| The Dark Star || || ''Dark Star'' is a 1974 science fiction comedy film.
|-
| The Walled Garden || {{w|Walled garden (technology)}} || A walled garden is a virtual environment where the user can only view content that is published or permitted by the proprietor, e.g. AOL or Facebook. Likely a reference to the {{w|Garden Of Eden}}.This could also be a reference to walled cities, e.g. from the Middle Ages, or the {{w|Kowloon Walled City}} in the modern era. ''The Secret Garden'' is a book by Frances Hodgson Burnett.
|-
| Skin City || [[wikipedia:Sin City (description)|Sin City]] || Specifically Las Vegas. Also a generic term for a city well known for gambling, drugs, prostitution, and/or other vices.
|-
| The Horse Rotary || || Horse and rotary are both types of clothes dryer. Might reference The Windy City, which would also likely be good for drying clothes.
|-
| Turkeytown || Turkeytown || A town in Lincoln County, Kentucky.
|-
| The Naked Towers || || ''The Naked City'' was a television series. ''The Two Towers'' is a book by Tolkien, and ''Naked Lunch'' is a book by Burroughs.
|-
| The Meta-City || Metacity || A term for a heterogenous, sprawling urban center with multiple dense centers, such as Tokyo or New York City. Metacity was also the window manager in the Linux GNOME 2 desktop.
|-
| The Urban Orb || || The screen name of a Let's Player on Youtube and Twitch. - Also maybe once more: Rome and the Rest of the world, as in the popes address to the urbi (city: meaning Rome ) and orbi (circle: meaning the world)
|-
| The City of Angles || City of Angels || Los Angeles. Also, the titular City of Angles in the web novel [http://stefangagne.com/cityofangles/ City of Angles]. There also exist several songs with that name, a few of them listed here: {{w|City of Angels}}.
|-
| The Big Wheel || [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041179/ The Big Wheel] || A 1949 movie about a race car driver. Alternatively, a child's plastic tricycle with an oversized front wheel.
|-
| Bird City USA || || A program started by the Audubon Society.
|-
| The City of Seven Crowns || City of Seven Hills || Rome. Also occasionally refers to Moscow. The next nickname is likely a reference to the 'wrong' part of this nickname.
|-
| Hilltopia || The Hilltop || May be reference to The Hilltop in AMC's The Walking Dead.
|-
| Bug City || || A nickname for the bug-infested Chicago in the roleplaying game Shadowrun. Also, a sourcebook for the game. This may also be a reference to Johnny Rico's description of Planet P in movie Starship Troopers.
|-
| The Bottomless Cup || || There are many mentions of Bottomless Pits in stories. Additionally, restaurants offering unlimited refills on drinks may refer to this offer by terms like "Bottomless Soda."
|-
| Lorde's Fen || Lord's Fen || Lord's Fen is a place in Huntingdonshire, England. [[wikipedia:Lorde| Lorde]] is a musical artist from Herne Bay, New Zealand - an area near Waitemata Harbour. A [[wikipedia:Fen| fen]] is a type of wetland, which could loosely connect to Herne Bay.
|-
| The Last Town || || The third book in the Wayward Pines series.
|-
| The Empty Set || || The concert hall in the video game Transistor. In mathematics, the {{w|empty set}} refers to an unique set with no elements, often notated as "{}" or "∅".
|-
| Ghost Harbor || || The name for a brewing company in North Carolina.
|}

{| class=wikitable
! Demonym in comic
! Reference
! Explanation
|-
| Northlanders || {{w|Norsemen}} || Norsemen, literally men from the north, people from Nordic countries. Could also be a reference to highlanders, the people of the {{w|Scottish Highlands}}, with a similar demonym. The "High" in "Highlands" is a reference to the mountainous landscape, not the geographical position. It may or may not have to do with the northernmost province of {{w|New Zealand}}.
|-
| Fair Folk || {{w|Fairy}} || The fair folk is a name for fairies in folklore. The elves in ''The Lord of the Rings'' are referred to as the 'fair folk'.
|-
| Honey Barons || [[wikipedia: Robber_baron_(industrialist) | Robber Barons]], [[wikipedia: Honey_badger | Honey Badgers]], [[wikipedia: Honey bear| honey bear]] || Possibly a play on The Robber Barons, a group of powerful industrialists in the late 1800s known for questionable business ethics, and honey badgers, animals known for their tough skin, bad tempers, and tenacity. Honey bear is a name for a few types of bear, as well as kinkajous.
|-
| Lake Dwellers || The Hobbit || Most likely a reference the people of the Laketown in J.R.R.Tolkien's "The Hobbit".
|-
| Treasurers || || A {{w|treasurer}} is a person in charge of running the treasury of an organization, for example a governmental department. The Auditors were characters in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books who did the book-keeping for reality, and wanted to simplify the universe by destroying life.
|-
| Swamp Watchers || ||
|-
| Dream Farmers || The Dream Factory || Hollywood, California, in its role as the center of the American film industry.
|-
| Wellfolk || Werefolk, Weefolk || The were folk were people who could change into animals: e.g. werewolves. Wee folk is another name for {{w|Fairy}} in folklore.
|-
| Rockeaters || [[Wikipedia:List_of_The_Neverending_Story_characters#Pyornkrachzark_and_the_other_messengers| Rockbiter]] || In the ''Never Ending Story'', Pyornkrachzark, more commonly known as "Rock Biter" is a large creature made completely of stone, named due to their diet of rocks.
May also refer to {{w|Lotus-eaters}}; while these mythical people slept in narcotic apathy, rockeaters might have a tougher time.
|-
| Forgotten Royals || [[wikipedia:Forgotten Realms | Forgotten Realms]] || Royalty from Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) campaign setting.
|-
| Remote Clients || [[wikipedia:Remote_computer|Remote client]] || In computing, a remote client is a program used to access a computer or service over a network. From a System Administrator's perspective, these are typically the users (though sometimes the administrators) of the system.
|-
| Barrow-Clerks || [http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-wights Barrow-wights] || Wraith-like creatures in ''The Lord of the Rings''. The hobbits come across them in the [http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Barrow-downs Barrow-downs.]
Those who keep records of items deposited in a grave mound or barrow.
|-
| The People of Land and Sky || [[wikipedia:Sea_Peoples|Sea Peoples]] || Sea peoples were raiders that attacked during the Late Bronze Age collapse.
|}

==Transcript==
:[Black Hat, Megan, and Ponytail are standing on a hill overlooking a city. The Gateway Arch is visible, as well as a number of skyscrapers in the skyline.]
:Black Hat: Ah, New York. The Hot Tamale.
:Megan: This is St. Louis. Also, that's not–
:Black Hat: The Winged City. The Gold Trombone. Castleopolis.
:Megan: It's none of those.

:[Close-up of Black Hat]
:Black Hat: The Kissing Kingdom. Sandland. The High Place. Ol' Ironhook.
:Megan (off-panel): Still wrong.
:Black Hat: The Thousand Spires. The Graveyard of Kings. Bloomtown. Lantern City USA.
:Megan (off-panel): Please stop.

:[Black Hat, Megan, and Ponytail are walking]
:Black Hat: The City of Many Daughters. Big Mauve. The Glass Cradle. The Road Source. London Prime. Hamtown. The Salad Bowl. God's Boudoir. The Glittering Swamp. The Steel Forest. The Mobius Strip. The Land of Trains and Fog. The Meeting Place. The Dark Star. The Walled Garden. Skin City. The Horse Rotary. Turkeytown. The Naked Towers. The Meta-City. The Urban Orb. The City of Angles. The Big Wheel. Bird City USA. The City of Seven Crowns. Hilltopia. Bug City. The Bottomless Cup. [Text size getting smaller] Lorde's Fen. The Last Town. The Empty Set. Ghost Harbor.
:Megan: How long does this last?
:Ponytail: No city has ever let him stay long enough to find out.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:LOTR]]

2632: Greatest Scientist

2022-06-15T09:19:55Z

172.70.91.128: /* Transcript */ Because there's ambiguity, and contrast in the h-sub notation/diagramising between the two examples.

{{comic
| number = 2632
| date = June 13, 2022
| title = Greatest Scientist
| image = Greatest Scientist.png
| titletext = "Ow! One of the petri dishes I left on the tower railing fell and hit me on the head. Hey, that gives me an idea..."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by HISTORY'S WURST SCIENTIST - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the feats of six of history's most acclaimed scientists and combines them into one fictional act, claiming that this person was the greatest scientist in history. Pulling off a combination of all of these would, indeed, be rather impressive.{{Citation needed}}

These scientists are most likely {{w|Galileo Galilei}}, {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}, {{w|Alexander Fleming}}, {{w|Ivan Pavlov}}, {{w|Eratosthenes}}, and {{w|Isaac Newton}}.

The ground is noticeably curved in this comic, because the curvature of the Earth is mentioned and measured.

Humorously combining multiple science experiments into one was also a punchline in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]]. Curved floors to represent Earths curvature were mentioned in [[2412: 1/100,000th Scale World]]

==Table of Experiments==
{| class="wikitable"
|+ List of experiments in the comic
|-
! Experiment in comic !! Experiment in reality !! Meaning !! Scientist
|-
| The Leaning Tower of Pisa || {{w|Galileo}} conducted [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment an experiment] at the Leaning Tower of Pisa, where he dropped two objects to measure whether the rate at which objects fall is dependent on weight or is constant. || Galileo found that objects with different weights fall at the same rate, disproving Aristotle's statement which purported the opposite. However, {{w|Vincenzo Viviani}} had already discovered this. Galileo's experiment further developed experimentation in science, in opposition to the then-prevailing view that knowledge is learned by studying the writings of the ancients.|| {{w|Galileo Galilei}}
|-
|Flying a kite into a thunderstorm with lightning || In June 1752, Benjamin Franklin performed his famous {{w|kite experiment}} in which he attached a conductive wire to a kite and flew it near a thunderstorm. Attached to the kite was a key, which was further attached to a {{w|Leyden jar}}. || While the kite was not hit by lightning, "Franklin did notice that loose threads of the kite string were repelling each other and deduced that the Leyden jar was being charged." This is sometimes considered the discovery of the fact that lightning contains/is electricity. || {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}
|-
| Two moldy petri dishes || In August 1928, Alexander Fleming put ''Staphylococcus aureus'' into multiple petri dishes and then left to go on holiday/vacation. On September 3, he returned and found that one plate had mould on it. This plate was the only one that did not have ''S. aureus'' bacteria in it. He later repeated this experiment and {{w|History_of_penicillin#The_breakthrough_discovery|the result was confirmed}}. || The mould that Fleming had discovered produced penicillin, an antibiotic. This was the first time that a substance had been discovered that could ''reliably'' treat bacterial infections, having a huge impact on medicine across the world. || Sir {{w|Alexander Fleming}}
|-
| Salivating dog located next to a bell || [https://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html In 1902 Ivan Pavlov conducted a study on dog reflexes] by giving dogs food and simultaneously ringing a bell. When the dog smelled and saw the food, it started salivating. Eventually, simply ringing the bell made the dog salivate, as the dog had associated the bell ringing with food. Pavlov also performed other, less humane experiments on other dogs. || This was the discovery of {{w|classical conditioning}}, where a stimulus is paired with an unrelated other thing through repeated exposure. The subject will eventually react to the unrelated thing in the absence of the stimulus. This is an example of taught reflexes, where a subconsious reaction like a reflex or instinct is taught. || {{W|Ivan Pavlov}}
|-
| The shadow angle of the dog determining the circumference of the Earth || |In the 200s BCE, the Greek philosopher Eratosthenes {{w|Earth's_circumference#Eratosthenes|measured the circumference of the Earth}}. While his exact method has been lost to time, a simplified version remains: At high noon on the summer solstice in Syene, Egypt, the sun was almost directly overhead. This was confirmed with a sundial. 5,000 stadia away in Alexandria, at the same time, the angle of the sun was measured with another sundial and converted into a fraction of the Earth's circumference. Some simple multiplication could then yield the circumference of the Earth. || The distance Eratosthenes calculated for the circumference of Earth was 250,000 stadia. This estimate was either 2.4% low or 0.8% high compared to modern knowledge, depending on whether he used Greek or Egyptian stadia - a remarkably accurate estimate for the time. || {{w|Eratosthenes}}
|-
| (Title text) A petri dish falling on the scientist's head, leading to a new discovery || Sir Isaac Newton, an inventor of calculus and discoverer of his famous {{w|Newton's laws of motion|Laws of Motion}}, also determined the basic mechanics of {{w|gravity}}. It's sometimes claimed that Newton came up with the notion of gravity when an apple fell from a tree and hit him on the head. While this is almost certainly an embellishment, Newton apparently told acquaintances that his inquiries into gravity were {{w|Isaac_Newton#Apple_incident|"occasion'd by the fall of an apple"}}. This purportedly led Newton to consider the question of what ''exactly'' caused the apple to fall straight to the ground. || This line of thinking ultimately let him to deduce the {{w|Law of Universal Gravitation}}, which is fundamental to understanding celestial mechanics. || Sir {{w|Isaac Newton}}
|}
It is also possible that the fact that two petri dishes fell in the comic but only one fell in the title text could be an obscure reference to {{w|Albert Einstein}}, through either the twins paradox or superposition. However, this connection is rather far-fetched and is more likely just a minor discrepancy.
==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript |Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[On the left of the panel, there are some buildings and trees representing Pisa, Italy. One of these buildings is the Leaning Tower of Pisa. The height of the tower is labeled h1 against a locally non-leaning dotted line, the length of its shadow upon the grounds is marked L1, the angle from ground from the end of the shadow to the tip of the tower is labelled θ1. Attached to the top of the tower, there is a kite string. The kite is in the top right, next to a thunderstorm. Two disks are shown falling from the kite onto a bell underneath. The bell goes "Ding! Ding!" Next to the bell is a dog. A horizontal line above the dog and its shadow is ambiguously labeled (and possibly broken up by) h2, the length of its shadow on the ground L2, and the angle up from end of the shadow to the top of the dog θ2. The ground is noticeably curved.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:History's greatest scientist was probably that one who measured the shadow of the Leaning Tower of Pisa while flying a kite into a distant thunderstorm where lightning caused two moldy Petri dishes to fall onto a bell next to a salivating dog whose shadow angle determined the circumference of the Earth.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category: Science]]

2632: Greatest Scientist

2022-06-14T15:47:14Z

172.70.91.128: /* Table of Experiments */ Alexander Fleming was also knighted.

{{comic
| number = 2632
| date = June 13, 2022
| title = Greatest Scientist
| image = Greatest Scientist.png
| titletext = "Ow! One of the petri dishes I left on the tower railing fell and hit me on the head. Hey, that gives me an idea..."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by HISTORY'S WURST SCIENTIST - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the feats of six of history's most acclaimed scientists and combines them into one fictional act, claiming that this person was the greatest scientist in history. Pulling off a combination of all of these would, indeed, be rather impressive.{{Citation needed}}

These scientists are most likely {{w|Galileo Galilei}}, {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}, {{w|Alexander Fleming}}, {{w|Ivan Pavlov}}, {{w|Eratosthenes}}, and {{w|Isaac Newton}}.

The ground is noticeably curved in this comic, as the curvature of Earth is mentioned and measured, thus requiring curvature.

Humorously combining multiple science experiments into one was also a punchline in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]]. Curved floors to represent Earths curvature were mentioned in [[2412: 1/100,000th Scale World]]

==Table of Experiments==
{| class="wikitable"
|+ List of experiments in the comic
|-
! Experiment in comic !! Experiment in reality !! Meaning !! Scientist
|-
| The Leaning Tower of Pisa || {{w|Galileo}} conducted [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment an experiment] at the Leaning Tower of Pisa to measure whether the rate at which objects fall is dependent on weight or is constant. || Galileo found that objects with different weights fall at the same rate, disproving Aristotle's statement which purported the opposite. However, {{w|Vincenzo Viviani}} had already discovered this. Galileo's experiment further developed experimentation in science, in opposition to the then-prevailing view that knowledge is learned by studying the writings of the ancients.|| {{w|Galileo Galilei}}
|-
|Flying a kite into a thunderstorm with lightning || In June 1752, Benjamin Franklin performed his famous {{w|kite experiment}} in which he attached a conductive wire to a kite and flew it near a thunderstorm. Attached to the kite was a key, which was further attached to a {{w|Leyden jar}}. || While the kite was not hit by lightning, "Franklin did notice that loose threads of the kite string were repelling each other and deduced that the Leyden jar was being charged." This is sometimes considered the discovery of the fact that lightning contains/is electricity. || {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}
|-
| Two moldy petri dishes || In August 1928, Alexander Fleming put ''Staphylococcus aureus'' into multiple petri dishes and then left to go on holiday/vacation. On September 3, he returned and found that one plate had mould on it. This plate was the only one that did not have ''S. aureus'' bacteria in it. He later repeated this experiment and {{w|History_of_penicillin#The_breakthrough_discovery|the result was confirmed}}. || The mould that Fleming had discovered produced penicillin, an antibiotic. This was the first time that a substance had been discovered that could ''reliably'' treat bacterial infections, having a huge impact on medicine across the world. || Sir {{w|Alexander Fleming}}
|-
| Salivating dog located next to a bell || [https://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html In 1902 Ivan Pavlov conducted a study on dog reflexes] by giving dogs food and simultaneously ringing a bell. When the dog smelled and saw the food, it started salivating. Eventually, simply ringing the bell made the dog salivate, as the dog had associated the bell ringing with food. Pavlov also performed other, less humane experiments on other dogs. || This was the discovery of {{w|classical conditioning}}, where a stimulus is paired with an unrelated other thing through repeated exposure. The subject will eventually react to the unrelated thing in the absence of the stimulus. This is an example of taught reflexes, where a subconsious reaction like a reflex or instinct is taught. || {{W|Ivan Pavlov}}
|-
| The shadow angle of the dog determining the circumference of the Earth || |In the 200s BCE, the Greek philosopher Eratosthenes {{w|Earth's_circumference#Eratosthenes|measured the circumference of the Earth}}. While his exact method has been lost to time, a simplified version remains: At high noon on the summer solstice in Syene, Egypt, the sun was almost directly overhead. This was confirmed with a sundial. 5,000 stadia away in Alexandria, at the same time, the angle of the sun was measured with another sundial and converted into a fraction of the Earth's circumference. Some simple multiplication could then yield the circumference of the Earth. || The distance Eratosthenes calculated for the circumference of Earth was 250,000 stadia. This estimate was either 2.4% low or 0.8% high compared to modern knowledge, depending on whether he used Greek or Egyptian stadia - a remarkably accurate estimate for the time. || {{w|Eratosthenes}}
|-
| (Title text) A petri dish falling on the scientist's head, leading to a new discovery || Sir Isaac Newton, an inventor of calculus and discoverer of his famous {{w|Newton's laws of motion|Laws of Motion}}, also determined the basic mechanics of {{w|gravity}}. It's sometimes claimed that Newton came up with the notion of gravity when an apple fell from a tree and hit him on the head. While this is almost certainly an embellishment, Newton apparently told acquaintances that his inquiries into gravity were {{w|Isaac_Newton#Apple_incident|"occasion'd by the fall of an apple"}}. This purportedly led Newton to consider the question of what ''exactly'' caused the apple to fall straight to the ground. This line of thinking ultimately let him to deduce the {{w|Law of Universal Gravitation}}, which is fundamental to understanding celestial mechanics. || Sir {{w|Isaac Newton}}
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript |Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[On the left of the panel, there are some buildings and trees representing Pisa, Italy. One of these buildings is the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Below the tower are some mathematical symbols and angles, marking its shadow as L1. Attached to the top of the tower, there is a kite string. The kite is in the top right, next to a thunderstorm. Falling from the kite are two disks which fall onto a bell underneath. The bell goes "Ding! Ding!" Next to the bell is a dog. There are more lines and mathematical symbols coming off the dog, marking its shadow as L2. The ground is noticeably curved.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:History's greatest scientist was probably that one who measured the shadow of the Leaning Tower of Pisa while flying a kite into a distant thunderstorm where lightning caused two moldy Petri dishes to fall onto a bell next to a salivating dog whose shadow angle determined the circumference of the Earth.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category: Science]]

2632: Greatest Scientist

2022-06-14T09:25:10Z

172.70.91.128: Fix typo

{{comic
| number = 2632
| date = June 13, 2022
| title = Greatest Scientist
| image = Greatest Scientist.png
| titletext = "Ow! One of the petri dishes I left on the tower railing fell and hit me on the head. Hey, that gives me an idea..."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by HISTORY'S WURST SCIENTIST - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
This comic takes the feats of six of history's most acclaimed scientists and combines them into one fictional act, claiming that this person was the greatest scientist in history. Pulling off a combination of all of these would, indeed, be rather impressive.{{Citation needed}}

These scientists are most likely {{w|Galileo Galilei}}, {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}, {{w|Alexander Fleming}}, {{w|Ivan Pavlov}}, {{w|Eratosthenes}}, and {{w|Isaac Newton}}.

The ground is noticeably curved in this comic, as the curvature of Earth is mentioned and measured, thus requiring curvature.

Humorously combining multiple science experiments into one was also a punchline in [[1584: Moments of Inspiration]]. Curved floors to represent Earths curvature were mentioned in [[2412: 1/100,000th Scale World]]

==Table of Experiments==
{| class="wikitable"
|+ List of experiments in the comic
|-
! Experiment in comic !! Experiment in reality !! Meaning !! Scientist
|-
| Measuring shadows || Measuring the shadow in Alexandria whereas a well in Aswan reflected the sun on july 21st demonstrates the curvature of the planet. || It led to a first accurate measurement of earth's radius. || {{w|Eratosthenes}}
|-
| the Leaning Tower of Pisa || {{w|Galileo}} conducted [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo%27s_Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa_experiment an experiment] at the Leaning Tower of Pisa to measure whether the rate at which objects fall is dependent on weight or is constant. || Galileo found that objects with different weights fall at the same rate, disproving Aristotle's statement which purported the opposite. However, {{w|Viviani}} had already discovered this. Galileo's experiment further developed experimentation in science, in opposition to the then-prevailing view that knowledge is learned by studying the writings of the ancients.|| {{w|Galileo Galilei}}
|-
|Flying a kite into a thunderstorm with lightning || In June 1752, Benjamin Franklin performed his famous {{w|kite experiment}} in which he attached a conductive wire to a kite and flew it near a thunderstorm. Attached to the kite was a key, which was further attached to a {{w|Leyden jar}}. || While the kite was not hit by lightning, "Franklin did notice that loose threads of the kite string were repelling each other and deduced that the Leyden jar was being charged." This is sometimes considered the discovery of the fact that lightning contains/is electricity. || {{w|Benjamin Franklin}}
|-
| Two moldy petri dishes || In August 1928, Alexander Fleming put ''Staphylococcus aureus'' into multiple petri dishes and then left to go on holiday/vacation. On September 3, he returned and found that one plate had mould on it. This plate was the only one that did not have ''S. aureus'' bacteria in it. He later repeated this experiment and {{w|History_of_penicillin#The_breakthrough_discovery|the result was confirmed}}. || The mould that Fleming had discovered produced penicillin, an antibiotic. This was the first time that a substance had been discovered that could ''reliably'' treat bacterial infections, having a huge impact on medicine across the world. || {{w|Alexander Fleming}}
|-
| Salivating dog located next to a bell || [https://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html In 1902 Ivan Pavlov conducted a study on dog reflexes] by giving dogs food and simultaneously ringing a bell. When the dog smelled and saw the food, it started salivating. Eventually, simply ringing the bell made the dog salivate, as the dog had associated the bell ringing with food. Pavlov also performed other, less humane experiments on other dogs. || This was the discovery of {{w|classical conditioning}}, where a stimulus is paired with an unrelated other thing through repeated exposure. The subject will eventually react to the unrelated thing in the absence of the stimulus. This is an example of taught reflexes, where a subconsious reaction like a reflex or instinct is taught. || {{W|Ivan Pavlov}}
|-
| The shadow angle of the dog determining the circumference of the Earth || |In the 200s BCE, the Greek philosopher Eratosthenes {{w|Earth's_circumference#Eratosthenes|measured the circumference of the Earth}}. While his exact method has been lost to time, a simplified version remains: At high noon on the summer solstice in Syene, Egypt, the sun was almost directly overhead. This was confirmed with a sundial. 5,000 stadia away in Alexandria, at the same time, the angle of the sun was measured with another sundial and converted into a fraction of the Earth's circumference. Some simple multiplication could then yield the circumference of the Earth. || The distance Eratosthenes calculated for the circumference of Earth was 250,000 stadia. This estimate was either 2.4% low or 0.8% high compared to modern knowledge, depending on whether he used Greek or Egyptian stadia - a remarkably accurate estimate for the time. || {{w|Eratosthenes}}
|-
| (Title text) A petri dish falling on the scientist's head, leading to a new discovery || Sir Isaac Newton, an inventor of calculus and discoverer of his famous {{w|Newton's laws of motion|Laws of Motion}}, also described how {{w|gravity}} works. The story goes that in 1726 while in contemplation in his garden, {{w|Isaac_Newton#Apple_incident|Newton saw an apple fall}}, and it did not as usually depicted hit him in the head (as referenced in the title text). Rather than ignoring it, he wondered what ''exactly'' caused the apple to fall and why it fell straight down. This led him to investigate gravity, eventually publishing ''{{w|Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica}}'', or simply the ''Principia''. || Newton went on to contemplate gravity, deducing the {{w|Law of Universal Gravitation}} - which includes that the same force that caused the apple to fall also caused celestial bodies to orbit as they do. || Sir {{w|Isaac Newton}}
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript |Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}

:[On the left of the panel, there are some buildings and trees representing Pisa, Italy. One of these buildings is the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Below the tower are some mathematical symbols and angles, marking its shadow as L1. Attached to the top of the tower, there is a kite string. The kite is in the top right, next to a thunderstorm. Falling from the kite are two disks which fall onto a bell underneath. The bell goes "Ding! Ding!" Next to the bell is a dog. There are more lines and mathematical symbols coming off the dog, marking its shadow as L2. The ground is noticeably curved.]

:[Caption below the panel:]
:History's greatest scientist was probably that one who measured the shadow of the Leaning Tower of Pisa while flying a kite into a distant thunderstorm where lightning caused two moldy Petri dishes to fall onto a bell next to a salivating dog whose shadow angle determined the circumference of the Earth.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category: Science]]

1079: United Shapes

2022-06-13T13:59:52Z

172.70.91.128: Undo revision 286755 by 141.101.97.54 (talk) Stupid ad-link. I wonder how we might SEO some contraindicative information to *suppress* the reputation of tue URLs in Google/et al...

{{comic
| number = 1079
| date = July 9, 2012
| title = United Shapes
| image = united_shapes.png
| imagesize = 800px
| titletext = That eggplant is in something of a flaccid state.
}}
A large version is [http://xkcd.com/1079/large/ here].
==Explanation==
In this comic, each state of the United States of America has been filled-in with an object of similar shape. Several years later Randall made a new map of the US mainland [[1653: United States Map]], where he shuffled the positions of the states but filled out the outline. Also in this map Michigan has been split into two separate parts. (Here it is the mitten and the eagle). This comic could also be a reference to {{w|Giuseppe Arcimboldo}}'s portraits, which were comprised of objects such as fruits, vegetables, flowers, books, and fish.

Very few, if any, of the shapes used are stereotypes of the state; they are merely objects that look like the state. Some of the objects are those which the states are widely known to resemble. For example, Michigan is represented by a mitten and an Eagle, and a pot with handle takes the place of Oklahoma (with the panhandle region of the state filled with a literal handle). Others, however, are more creative. Few would have likely pictured Texas as a dog or Alaska as a bear with a jet pack and laser gun. There are several incredibly simple objects filling some states. Kentucky is filled by a cloud, which conceivably could have been used for any state, and Wyoming, one of the nearly rectangular states, is simply an envelope. There are three pairs of states that are related. Georgia and Missouri each contain an image of the other, drawing attention to their similar shapes, North and South Dakota are the top and bottom halves of a {{w|guitar amplifier}} {{w|speaker cabinet}}, and Alabama and Mississippi are {{w|moai}} facing in opposite directions.

Colorado contains what looks like a Wikipedia article. [http://xkcd.com/1079/colorado/ A close-up of the fake article is provided.] The following references are made in the Colorado article:

*The pronunciation is not that for Colorado, but for {{w|Eyjafjallajökull}}, a volcano in Iceland that erupted in April 2010.
*The way it has a demilitarized zone towards Wyoming resembles {{W|North Korea}} and {{W|South Korea}}.
*Eleven dimensions refers to {{w|string theory}}.
*A {{w|wormhole}} is a theoretical relative of the {{w|black hole}}. This is a reference to the television series {{w|Stargate SG-1}} where a device capable of creating wormholes is located in the {{w|Cheyenne Mountain nuclear bunker}} in Colorado.
*A {{w|Horcrux}} is a type of magical object in the world of {{W|Harry Potter}} that prevents the creator of it from passing on. They may die, but their soul remains to be resurrected by another wizard
*The radiation zones around Longmont are caused by {{w|Radioactive contamination from the Rocky Flats Plant|radioactive contamination from the Rocky Flats Plant}}.
*The fake motto ''Si parare possis, vivere septem'' can be roughly translated as "With preparation, survival is possible for over a week."

New Mexico according to [https://xkcd.com/1079/info.0.json official transcript] is "A liquid container labeled for something of unusual and silly danger". The labeling is upside down and it refers to the nuclear testing facility White Sands Missile Range located in New Mexico for the nuclear bomb. The joke is that it presents the white sand itself as extremely hazardous. The phrase "contains chemicals known only to the state of Nevada" may be a reference to the nuclear weapons testing that occurred in Nevada (although in that case, it's not really the ''state'' of Nevada that knows those chemicals, but rather the {{w|Nevada Test Site}}, home of Area 51 ''et al''.), and is also a reference to California's {{w|1986 California Proposition 65|Proposition 65}} warning label, "WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm."
:This end up
:Property of White Sands Missile Range
:??? [Followed by a {{w|NFPA 704}} Diamond with all divisions at severe risk, and a radiation symbol in the special notice division]
:Contains White Sand
:FLAMMABLE
:Warning:
:This product contains chemicals known
:only to the state of Nevada.
:Contents under pressure from parents
:If swallowed, induce labor
:56 fluid ounces
:and 14 other ounces

The title text makes fun of Florida which is sometimes called "The penis of America". Obviously, this penis is somewhat flaccid (not erect). The use of the word "state" is a pun, as it means some particular condition (flaccid state) as well as a political entity (The State of Florida).

==Objects==
{|class=wikitable
!State!!Contained Picture!!Comments
|-
|Alabama ||A moai head facing east.||{{w|Moai}} are Easter Island stone statues.
|-
|Alaska ||A bear with a jet pack and a ray gun.||The ray gun and {{w|jet pack}} are fixtures of science fiction during the Cold War era, and the Russian Bear is an often-used personification of the country Russia in political cartoonage; the "teddy bear" image may be related to Alaska's former Russian heritage. The USA acquired Alaska from Russia in the Alaska Purchase of 1867 and it became a state in 1959, during the Cold War. The Cold War often featured baseless worries of a potential Russian invasion of Alaska due to their geographical proximity across the Bering Sea and Bering Strait, which persisted through the 1980s; Alaska was the location of a large number of interceptor missiles as part of Ronald Reagan's "Star Wars Defense Initiative" intended to shoot down missiles that might be launched from the USSR. The ray gun is pointed across the Bering Strait at Russia, consistent with Alaska's often being described as the "first line of defense" against Russian aggression. The teddy bear is similar in appearance to {{w|Winnie the Pooh}}.||
|-
|Arizona ||A refrigerated shelf containing milk, bread, and pastries.||
|-
|Arkansas ||A measuring cup.||
|-
|California ||A vacuum.||An old-fashioned upright vacuum cleaner (lying down to the right), green with a yellow bag.
|-
|Colorado ||The Wikipedia article on Colorado.||A fake Wikipedia article on Colorado. Below the text as seen in the provided close up:
:[web address:]
::en.wikipedia.org/wiki/colorado
:[Headers]
::Wikipedia
::Article Talk
::Colorado
:[Main article {note that Randall forgot the closing parentheses ')' after the pronunciation}]
::Colorado (Pronounced [ˈeːijaˌfjatlaˌjœːkʏtl̥] is a US State encompassing portions of the Rocky
::Mountains and the Great Plains. The region has been inhabited since at least 11,000 BCE, and
::some archaeological evidence suggest the state – with roughly its current borders – has literally
::always existed. Colorado is separated from Wyoming by a 28-mile demilitarized zone, and
::has at times exercised substantial regional
::power via the installation of puppet governments
::in neighboring states
::Geographically, Colorado is eleven-dimensional,
::though seven of those dimensions are tightly
::compacted and difficult to detect in most areas
::of the state. Colorado is home to the nation's
::oldest continually-operated wormhole and two
::of President Lincoln's horcruxes.
::The wildlife in Colorado is commonly characterized
::as "erratic", particularly in the radiation zones
::around Longmont. The State's timber wolf
::population is largely bipedal; the Park Service
::has expressed "concern" at their attempts to enroll in
:[Fact box with correct (though black instead of blue) State flag and emblem and fake motto:]
::State of Colorado
::Motto:
::"Si parare possis, vivere septem."
::(With preparation, survival is
::possible for over a week.)
|-
|Connecticut ||A train conductor's hat.||
|-
|Delaware ||A meerkat.||
|-
|Florida ||An eggplant.||The title text mentions the eggplant being in a flaccid state, which might be a reference to the sexual use of the eggplant emoji.
|-
|Georgia ||Missouri.||The outline of the state of Missouri, with the {{w|Gateway Arch}} in St. Louis.
|-
|Hawaii ||The island of Hawaii is a snowball. The smaller islands are small bits of snow.||
|-
|Idaho ||A garden gnome, sitting down.||
|-
|Illinois ||A gangster with a guitar case, upside down.||
|-
|Indiana ||The brush of a paintbrush.||
|-
|Iowa ||A tomato, lettuce, cold cut and cheese sandwich.||
|-
|Kansas ||A {{w|spinet}} piano.||
|-
|Kentucky ||A cloud.||
|-
|Louisiana ||A boot with some gum stuck to the bottom of it.||
|-
|Maine ||A Vulcan salute.||Maine's camp sunshine has had Star Trek related events in the past, including the opportunity to appear in a film.
|-
|Maryland ||A wolf howling to the moon, upside down.||
|-
|Massachusetts ||An elephant, being ridden by a man, carrying tea.||Might be a reference to the Boston Tea Party, which occurred in Massachusetts, and the Republican political party. The man seems to be wearing a tricorn hat.
|-
|Michigan ||A mitten for the lower portion, an eagle for the {{w|Upper Peninsula of Michigan}}.||
|-
|Minnesota ||$160 in $20 USD bills, tied together.||
|-
|Mississippi ||A moai head facing west.||
|-
|Missouri ||Georgia.||The outline of the state of Georgia, with a pair of {{w|Georgia Peach|Georgia peaches}}.
|-
|Montana ||One half of a muffin, sideways.||
|-
|Nebraska ||A blue VW type 2 with mattresses sticking out the back.||
|-
|Nevada ||A clothes iron.||
|-
|New Hampshire ||A tall brick factory building.|| Could be in reference to the many brick mill buildings in Manchester, one of the larger cities in the state.
|-
|New Jersey ||A bent-over old person. He is carrying a cane.||
|-
|New Mexico ||A liquid container labeled for something of unusual and silly danger.||A yellow liquid container with upside-down labeling.
::This end up!!
::Property of White Sands Missile Range
::Contains White Sand
:[Written inside a hazardous-materials {{w|NFPA 704|NFPA diamond}} with the ? very large, and the three '4' in the three top part of a diamond shape divided in four these three sections being blue(health), red(flammability), and yellow(instability). The lower part has a radioactive sign on the same grey background as the large rectangle.]
::??? 4 4 4
::Flammable
::Warning
::This product contains chemicals known
::Only to the State of Nevada.
::Contents under pressure from parents
::If swallowed, induce labor
::56 fluid ounces
::and 14 other ounces
::NB - There are several chemicals such as {{w|Pentaborane(9)}} and {{w|tert-Butyl hydroperoxide|''tert''-Butyl hydroperoxide}} which have a 4-4-4 rating, however, no known substance is both 4-4-4 and radioactive
|-
|New York ||A hybrid transmission with standard manual-style gears and a torque converter sliced in half.||
|-
|North Carolina ||A bouquet of flowers. They appear similar to {{w|Galium Palustre|marsh bedstraws}}.||
|-
|North Dakota ||The top half of a guitar amplifier speaker cabinet.|| Possibly a {{w|Randall Amplifiers|Randall}} [https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-49c12/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12694/26126/apihqruad__00850.1479879391.jpg RD412A] angled 4x12" cabinet, which is similar in appearance and bears [[Randall]]'s name.
|-
|Ohio ||Underwear (Briefs).||Possibly a reference to ''{{w|Captain Underpants}}'', which takes place in Ohio.||
|-
|Oklahoma ||A covered pot, dripping with boil-over.||Western Oklahoma is often called "{{w|Oklahoma Panhandle|the panhandle}}"; sure enough, this is where the boiling pot's handle fits.||
|-
|Oregon ||A locomotive.||
|-
|Pennsylvania ||A very thick book with a bookmark.||
|-
|Rhode Island ||The bow half of a boat's hull.||
|-
|South Carolina ||A slice of pizza.||
|-
|South Dakota ||The bottom half of guitar amplifier speaker cabinet.|| Possibly a {{w|Randall Amplifiers|Randall}} [https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-49c12/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/12694/26126/apihqruad__00850.1479879391.jpg RD412A] angled 4x12" cabinet, which is similar in appearance and bears [[Randall]]'s name.
|-
|Tennessee ||A number of children's books, placed in a slightly askew pile.|| Possibly a reference to Dolly Parton's Imagination Library. The books are {{w|Where's Waldo?}}, {{w|The Wreck of the Zephyr}}, {{w|The Way Things Work}}, Free Fall, {{w|Paddle-to-the-Sea}}, What It Feels Like to Be a Building, and {{w|The Crab with the Golden Claws}}.
|-
|Texas ||A dog sitting in a bowl.||
|-
|Utah ||An oven.||
|-
|Vermont ||A microscope, upside down.||
|-
|Virginia ||A {{w|stegosaurus}}.||
|-
|Washington ||A whale.|| The Puget Sound is well known for whale watching
|-
|Washington DC ||A star.||On most maps, capitals are shown as stars. Washington DC is the capital of the United States.
|-
|West Virginia ||A {{w|frog}}.||
|-
|Wisconsin ||A skull.||
|-
|Wyoming ||An envelope.||The back side of a white envelope, sealed with red wax, with a black heart next to a signature (lower left corner).
|}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|tables are not welcome here}}
:The '''United Shapes'''
:A map of things states are shaped like
:[Each state has some item wedged to stay inside its borders]

{| class=wikitable
! State
! Official Transcript
! Text
|-
|WA
|whale
|
|-
|MT
|half muffin
|
|-
|ND and SD
|top and bottom halves of an amp
|
|-
|MN
|$160 in $20 USD bills
|
|-
|WI
|skull
|
|-
|MI
|mitten for the lower portion, eagle for the {{w|Upper Peninsula of Michigan}}
|
|-
|NY
|hybrid transmission with standard manual-style gears and a torque converter sliced in half
|
|-
|VT
|microscope, upside down
|
|-
|NH
|tall brick factory building
|
|-
|ME
|Vulcan salute
|
|-
|MA
|elephant, being ridden by a man, carrying tea
|
|-
|CT
|train conductor's hat
|
|-
|RI
|bow half of a boat's hull
|
|-
|OR
|locomotive
|
|-
|ID
|garden gnome, sitting down
|
|-
|WY
|envelope.
|The envelope is marked with a signature, possibly Randall's
|-
|NE
|blue VW type 2 with mattresses sticking out the back
|
|-
|IA
|tomato, lettuce, cold cut and cheese sandwich
|
|-
|IL
|gangster with a guitar case, upside down
|
|-
|IN
|brush of a paintbrush
|
|-
|OH
|underwear (Briefs)
|
|-
|PA
|very thick book with a bookmark
|
|-
|NJ
|bent-over old person
|
|-
|NV
|clothes iron
|
|-
|UT
|oven
|
|-
|CO
|Wikipedia article on Colorado
|See Link Above
|-
|KS
|stand-up piano
|
|-
|MO
|Georgia
|Georgia
|-
|KY
|cloud
|
|-
|WV
|{{w|frog}}
|
|-
|VA
|{{w|stegosaurus}}
|
|-
|DC
|star.
|
|-
|MD
|wolf howling to the moon, upside down
|
|-
|DE
|meerkat
|
|-
|CA
|vacuum cleaner
|
|-
|AZ
|refrigerated shelf containing milk, bread, and pastries
|
|-
|NM
|liquid container with warning label
|This end up!!
Property of White Sands Missile Range

Contains White Sand

???

FLAMMABLE

Warning: This product contains chemicals known Only to the state of Nevada.

Contents under pressure from parents.

If swallowed, induce labor.

56 Fluid Ounces and 14 other ounces.
|-
|OK
|covered pot, dripping with boil-over
|
|-
|AR
|measuring cup
|
|-
|TN
|children's books, placed in a slightly askew pile
|Handford / WHERE'S WALDO / or wally

The Wreck of the Zephyr / Chris Van Allsburg

The Way Things Work / DAVID MACAULRY

Weisner / FREE FALL

PADDLE-TO-THE-SEA / HCH(?)

WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE A BUILDING / Wilson

TINTIN / The Crab with the Golden Claws / Hergé
|-
|NC
|flower bouquet
|
|-
|AK
|teddy bear with a jet pack and a ray gun
|
|-
|HI
|snowball
|
|-
|TX
|dog sitting in a bowl
|
|-
|LA
|boot with some gum stuck to the bottom
|
|-
|MS
|moai head facing west
|
|-
|AL
|moai head facing east
|
|-
|GA
|Missouri.
|Missouri
|-
|SC
|pizza slice
|
|-
|FL
|eggplant
|
|}

==Trivia==
*A print version of this comic is available in the [https://store.xkcd.com/products/united-shapes-poster xkcd store].

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:US maps]]
[[Category:Food]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Dogs]]
[[Category:Dinosaurs]]
[[Category:Wikipedia]]
[[Category:Star Trek]]
[[Category:Harry Potter]] 
[[Category:Volcanoes]] 
[[Category:Comics with xkcd store products]]

Talk:2631: Exercise Progression

2022-06-13T12:18:59Z

172.70.91.128:

The bot appeared to have not created the page, so I created it- apologies for any mishaps that I might've caused as a result. [[User:Char Latte49|Wielder of the Staple Gun]] ([[User talk:Char Latte49|talk]]) 02:42, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

I replaced the comic image, which was the 2x size image, with the correct size image from XKCD. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 03:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

;"[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2631:_Exercise_Progression&oldid=286674 CRAPDALIZER]"?
Witw is a crapdalizer? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.221|172.70.126.221]] 03:42, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
:I would guess WotSG couldn't think of what to put there and made up a silly nonsense word. It's also an anagram of "lizard caper"... Anyway, I've changed it to something a bit more relevant. (Not sure if I should have deleted the "Please change this comment" part as well.)[[Special:Contributions/172.70.174.159|172.70.174.159]] 05:02, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
::Sounds like more of the crapper syndrome we have had. It is confusing with such a comment here, when the word is removed from the explanation, so I have [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2631:_Exercise_Progression&oldid=286674 linked to a version] of the explanation with the word in place in the incomplete reason. Also please do not add sections in the talk page... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:23, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
:It was by an anonomous user, I tried to remove it but they reverted and it wasn't major enough to warrant an edit war [[User:Char Latte49|Wielder of the Staple Gun]] ([[User talk:Char Latte49|talk]]) 17:33, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
Surprised that there was STILL no Explanation or Transcript at 2am EST, so since I fully understand this one (I feel like I wrote this comic, LOL!) I gave it a shot. '''I''' feel like they're complete and thorough, but last time my writing was completely replaced, LOL! [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:17, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

I was a nerd, but discovered exercise around 2012 and became very active. After the social media political stuff around 2013-2016, my curve shifted from the normal one to Randall's, incredibly hard to do things other than what's supported by the patterns. I don't think Randall's curve is natural, I think he was hit by the influence stuff too. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.121|172.70.110.121]] 11:05, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
:My solution has been that I didn't increase the difficulty. I found a level I was comfortable with and don't whine about it. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 12:55, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

I never heard of this "up to six months" rule of thumb. Can someone add a citation or remove it? --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.108|172.68.132.108]] 21:43, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
:I didn't write that one, someone added it since I wrote the explanation, but I've heard this Rule Of Thumb many times. The thing is, a "Rule Of Thumb" is as opposed to "written down" :) so it might be difficult to find a citation, except maybe if somebody can find an advice article. Also, it's something that comes from personal experience, it's quite a vague amount. It might be 5 months for this person and 7 for that person, and it depends on frequency and dedication. This is basically "In my experience, in general, on average, it takes 6 months". It SHOULD stay because it's standard advice from any trainer [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 06:47, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
::Besides which, anybody seeking for explainxkcd to be a purely and fully-cited authoriterical work (except on matters of xkcd itself, which is at least our primary role, if not entirely our accomplished one) is already over-optimistic. If I don't think that a trainer would ''normally'' mention the six-months thing (either at all or with a differing period more suited for their own purposes of boasting/milking-the-naive-client-for-as-much-as-possible), I still wouldn't argue with the mention of the principle as it stands... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 12:18, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:2630: Shuttle Skeleton

2022-06-09T12:54:31Z

172.70.91.128:

Well, I know what "paint job" I'm putting on the pirate shuttle, in my next TTRPG session. 
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 13:12, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

TaxOnomy.

The joke here is about a recent California court case (https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/06/us/california-bees-fish-court-ruling-scn-trnd/index.html) which declared bumblebees to be considered fish under the California Endangered Species Act. The definition of "fish" listed in the act included invertebrates, which is why skeletons are relevant. [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 14:36, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
:I don't know if this comic is related to the bee/fish ruling or not. There have been many earlier works where the skeleton of a fictional person or creature has been shown (the Simpsons, Lego man, etc). [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 17:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Could someone explain why this is a mammal skeleton and not say, something related to a crocodile or a bird? Currently there's only a hint what makes it look like one. Which doesn't say that much to someone who doesn't know mammal skeletons too well. TIA! [[User:Chichak|Chichak]] ([[User talk:Chichak|talk]]) 17:09, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
:That's a good question, since there are lots of skeletal analogues among all the vertebrates. Crocodiles and birds only have 4 toes on their rear legs, so that could be part of it. It may just be an overall resemblance to whales, which we already know are mammals. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 18:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
::Well it definitely wouldn't be fish. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 18:36, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
::I'm actually confused about this. Mammals do not have ribs going all the way to the hips. Those look more like reptile ribs. 23:30, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

These "citation needed" tags are getting ridiculous, but I do wonder about whether any space craft had plastic parts. Metal, yes. Carbon fiber, yes. Plastic? I doubt it. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 17:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
:They SHOULD be ridiculous, so good job. Regarding the question, I guess space craft may have plastic cup holder for example. The plastic parts are unlikely to be on outside, but inside, why not? In Apollo 13, they were using plastic bags for something at least. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 18:36, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
:: I was just thinking about the skeleton, you're right. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 22:08, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

This comic was unexpectedly terrifying. Not sure what I expected, but it wasn't this.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.62|108.162.246.62]] 20:43, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I was just reading D'Arcy Thompson's "On Growth and Form". (John Tyler Bonner's 1969 abridgement of the 1942 edition.) At the end of the book, Thompson draws skulls on a grid, such as an early ancestor of the horse, Hyracotherium, and then distorts the grid in a uniform way to produce a new sketch that resembles a related species. He then used the same technique to demonstrate that other species were not "missing links" between those two species, because he could not distort the grid to make them fit. [[User:Tanana|Tanana]] ([[User talk:Tanana|talk]]) 02:41, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:I'd be very wary of someone using a form of personal incredulity to demonstrate something (c.f. the "junkyard+tornado->jumbo jet" 'counter-'argument). I'm not aware of the book, but it sounds like it's anti-evolution, by your telling of it, and picking a case where you can 'find' a simple distortion that works across two examples doesn't then invalidate the intermediate stages for which there's no reason to believe a consistent evolutionary pressure would create similarly smooth transitions at all stages you get to observe. It's observing the end-points of a random-walk and then being surprised at where the walker has managed to visit along the way. The term "missing link" is also outdated (those who use it these days tend to then require additional missing links be found betwixt any now-found 'links' and their neighbours, rather than ever be usefully satisfied) but I suppose might have still been a bit more mainstream back in 1942.
:So sounds like a fun book to read (I like a good cryptozoology/gods-were-aliens book, too!) but I'd be wary about it not having aged well (as I would with bits of the Origin Of Species, though it has held up surpisingly well), and I hope you're also reading it in a suitable frame of mind and not taking it (or passing it on) at face-value. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.147|172.70.162.147]] 09:04, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Well that's horrifying. [[User:TheLonelySandPerson|TheLonelySandPerson]] ([[User talk:TheLonelySandPerson|talk]]) 01:39, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

On a related note, the Apollo Lunar Module was a completely different design early on, but slowly evolved into its familiar crab-like shape through convergent evolution. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.26.59|172.71.26.59]] 03:14, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:Carcinization strikes again.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.73|172.71.94.73]] 07:25, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

What’s up with the “type of fish or shark”? Sharks are a type of fish, the “or shark” doesn’t make sense?
:Presumably Randall was thinking "bony fish". Maybe that was too technical to be funny. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 12:44, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
:(Edit conflict, and I'm really just expanding upon Nit's summary, but having written it now, here you are...) It's messy, but often sharks are (paraphyletically) kept out of the "fish" category. Similarly to how mammals, amphibians, etc of the ''tetropoda'' are actually descended from the "fish" superclass (under its classical branch name, of course). Thus to separate from the bony-fish (and possibly other subtrees, across which the common term "fish" might alply), sharks may be deemed not-fish for classification purposes and it is often good practice to do so.
:Common names confuse matters: a dogfish (shark) is very far related from a starfish, at least as much as a seahorse is more fish (very so, in fact!) than equine. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 12:54, 9 June 2022 (UTC)