Talk:1338: Land Mammals

2014-10-07T15:40:28Z

173.245.54.188:

Is it mass or weight? --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.119|173.245.53.119]] 06:38, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:It says weight. Since most land animals live on the... land, there is not much difference. I suppose if a lot of aninimals lived near a [https://xkcd.com/852/ prime pole vaulting location] it could skew the results. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.117|108.162.246.117]] 06:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
::Ton is a unit of the quantity mass, not weight. Weight is a force and forces would be measured in newtons. Hence the comic is making a mistake. One that 99% of the people do. Mass would be correct since it is a more fundamental quantity and is usually what is meant when people talk about weight. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.105|108.162.254.105]] 18:29, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
:::Ton is actually a unit of weight, at least assuming the comic is using the short ton (widely used in the US). 1 ton = 2000 pounds, and pounds are a unit of weight. A metric ton, tonne, and long ton are units of mass, defined as a quantity of kilograms.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.206|108.162.219.206]] 18:32, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
::::No, [[wikipedia:Pound_%28mass%29|pound]] is a unit of mass as well. The [[wikipedia:Pound_%28force%29|pound-force]] is a unit of force. One pound-force is the amount of force exerted by Earth's gravity (under certain conditions, I have no idea which) on a pound of mass. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 20:37, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
:::::No, you're all wrong. Pound is a currency. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.188|173.245.54.188]] 15:40, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
:::Based on his comments on the subject in a [http://what-if.xkcd.com/112/ What If comic], I strongly suspect that he doesn't care about the distinction in cases where: a) the values of the measurements are equal, and b) it's just a comic, not a research paper. [[User:Marcus Erronius|Marcus Erronius]] ([[User talk:Marcus Erronius|talk]]) 17:42, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm really curious, what are the other, unlabeled groupings? [http://vaclavsmil.com/the-earths-biosphere-evolution-dynamics-and-change/ Author's website] {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.46}}

<pre>
On page 186 of Smil's referenced book, there is a bar chart with the following values in millions of tons (*=not used in Randall's graphic):
elephants 0.8
horses 40
pigs 100
cattle 450
people 280
*whales 80
*all wild vertebrates 30
*all domesticated vertebrates 650
</pre> {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.46}}

I think that this graph is actually more illustrative of how much support humans need to maintain themselves (the amount of cattle is astonishing). [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 07:58, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:''need''? I don't think we ''need'' so much cattle. It's just that most people prefer hamburgers and steaks to beans. So, how much we ''use'' to maintain ourselves would be better. (BTW, you don't count yourself as human?) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:According to [http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201209/how-many-dogs-are-there-in-the-world] there are 525 million dogs, assuming 20 kg as average weight, this should give 10 squares in the diagram. I can't find reliable numbers for cats, but there are more cats than dogs, but they don't weigh as much, so their total weight could be similar to that of the dogs. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.160|108.162.254.160]] 08:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

The blob of 13 under the word Livestock may very well represent both dogs and cats. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.46}}

;Layout of the blocks
Does anybody see a reason for the particular layout of the blocks? My first impression was a globe but obviously it doesn't correspond to any continents, etc. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.66|108.162.254.66]] 08:44, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
: I've been wondering myself... I do think it is a picture of something. My ideas so far: an eye, a fried egg, a cell. --[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 09:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

::It may simply be something-like-a-circle of humans with the rest surrounding it. But it DOES look like a cell. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:: Could it be a sort of relationship diagram? It looks like we're in the centre, with the animals we have the closest relationships with — our pets and our food — nearest, and those we're less concerned with further away. [[User:Gidds|Gidds]] ([[User talk:Gidds|talk]]) 11:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:::Yes, the overall layout is human-centric, but that doesn't explain the intentionally lumpy and asymmetric regions. It would have been easier to place the blocks in regular shapes (circular, rectangular or otherwise) but Randall chose to do it this way. Cell with a nucleus is a reasonable guess. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 14:00, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
::::I think it resembles a (low resolution) globe, with humanity representing the major continent [[User:Boxy|Boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]]) 14:19, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

::::I think it shows the relationship of the title text (assuming we are part of land mammals): there are about 1.2K squares in total representing a factor of 1K:1 overall. Thus the shape (resembling bacterium) is explained, the incorporation of all mammals into the shape, and the potential central location of humans (assuming most bacteria lives in our gut). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.31|108.162.219.31]] 16:09, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:::::I'm thinking the data points are placed using a polar coordinate system (although what the axis are I don't know, other than that being human gets you close to the center) combined with a mapping onto an x-y grid. Does that make any sense? --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 20:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:::::: I think the layout is intended to show two legged mammals in the middle and four legged surrounding it. There are not sufficient six legged mammals to make yet another circle outside the four legged circle. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 16:47, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

::::::: You know of ANY six legged mammal? Any six-appendages {{w|vertebrate}} I know of is mythological creature (like {{w|pegasus}} or some {{w|dragon}}s) or non-earth origin (like {{w|List_of_alien_species_in_the_Honorverse#treecats|tree cats}} or {{w|Pandoran_biosphere|Pandora-native}}). -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:58, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

: I think we humans are afraid of the wild animals, and are huddling in the center and have either gathered the domesticated animals around us to protect us, or they have surrounded us on their own to protect us. [[User:Chrullrich|Chrullrich]] ([[User talk:Chrullrich|talk]]) 07:51, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

: Is it just me or is that a tip view of the human skull with eyes pointing left? Perhaps something about the placement indicates where we place the importance of these species in our minds? Wild guess and all that? {{unsigned|Sean timmons}}

Don't think there is anything to the layout, other than making it fit as a evenly distributed in a circle, placing the wild species near the domesticated relatives -- my vote is to remove the layout from the incomplete tag [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 21:48, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

;Identifying the groups
I would love to identify specific groups. The unlabelled animals come in groups, even the wild animals, even though only *one* of those groups (elephants for some reason) has been labelled. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 13:05, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
:Reason for elephant label == "This is how much/little the whole population of the largest land mammals amass to."? (Actually, given the scarcity of elephants, I'm surprised it's a full block. I suspect something else that could have been labelledsuch as "rats" would be far more.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.7|141.101.99.7]] 14:07, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Per the wikipeda page[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel#Distribution_and_numbers] on camels I expect that they are the blob of 3 gray squares. [[User:Mwiser|Mwiser]] ([[User talk:Mwiser|talk]]) Update: I hadn't seen the 1 billion kg == 1 million tons notation which has since appeared. I therefore added camels (and also donkeys) to the table below. [[User:Mwiser|Mwiser]] ([[User talk:Mwiser|talk]])

Non [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_SI_definitions SI] units should just die [http://xkcd.com/526/ already]. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.8|108.162.241.8]] 20:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

:Is Randall's ton the metric {{w|tonne}} or the US {{w|short ton}}? -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.65|108.162.219.65]] 22:06, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
::Considering that Randall is very aware of the SI confusion, I'm sure he would have made it clear if he where NOT using metric tonne - so I would say his tonne is 1,000 kg! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:53, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

;Stab at the numbers
{| class="wikitable sortable" style="width: auto; text-align: center; font-size: 95%; table-layout: fixed; line-height:1.25"
|-
! Land Mammal
! population in Billions
! Average Kilograms
! Total Kilograms in Billions
! xkcd value
! Notes
|-
! Humans
| 7.2
| 70
| {{sort|00504|504}}
| 358
| as of 2013
|-
! Cattle
| 1
| 1740
| {{sort|01740|1740}}
| 520
| as of 2012
|-
! Pigs
| 1
| 350
| {{sort|00350|350}}
| 90
|
|-
! Chickens
| 19
| 1
| {{sort|00019|19}}
|
| not mammals
|-
! Goats
| 0.865
| 46
| {{sort|00039.7|39.7}}
| 39
| as of 2008... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goat#Worldwide_goat_population_statistics src]
|-
! Sheep
| 1
| 80
| {{sort|00080|80}}
| 135
|
|-
! Elephants
| 0.000105670
| 5000
| {{sort|00000.5|0.5}}
| 1
| as of 2012 [http://www.elephantdatabase.org/preview_report/2013_africa/Loxodonta_africana/2012/Africa src]
|-
! Horses
| 0.058372106
| 500
| {{sort|00029|29}}
| 29
| as of 2006 [http://horsetalk.co.nz/2007/09/12/world-horse-population-58m/#axzz2v7dtQwJK src]
|-
! Rats
| 10
| 0.35
| {{sort|00003.5|3.5}}
| 2
| 10B is a guess
|-
! Cats
| 0.6
| 5
| {{sort|00003|3}}
| 2
|
|-
! Dogs
| 0.4
| 40
| {{sort|00016|16}}
| 6
|
|-
! Seal
| 0.022
| 200
| {{sort|00004.4|4.4}}
|
| not a land mammal
|-
! Mole
|
| 0.075
|
|
| Numbers are slightly exaggerated, but [http://what-if.xkcd.com/4 it would be nice] to have those quantities
|-
! Krill
| ?
| ?
| {{sort|00300|175-725}}
|
| Wild species with largest biomass (not a land mammal)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_krill#Biomass_and_production src]
|-
! Camel
| 0.014
| 465
| {{sort|00006.51|6.51}}
|
| As of 2010 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel src]
|-
! Donkey
| 0.04
| 160
| {{sort|00006.4|6.4}}
|
| As of 206 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey src] [http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ed.ac.uk%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.21412!%2FfileManager%2Fdonkey%2520fact%2520sheet.pdf&ei=HO4XU6mlD4WbygGMlICoCg&usg=AFQjCNH4aPhQCgltmd0nkgxB6Zb4QU_qLw&bvm=bv.62577051,d.aWc&cad=rja mass src]
|-

|}
* 1 billion kg == 1 million tons [https://www.google.ca/search?q=convert:+1+kg+to+metric+tons src]
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heaviest_land_mammals
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_mammals_by_population
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.8|108.162.241.8]] 16:19, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

;Talk about the table
:uhh.... chickens aren't... mammals? (?) [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 17:22, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

::Apparently not. http://www.ask.com/question/are-chickens-mammals --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 03:23, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:: fixed [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.8|108.162.241.8]] 19:39, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

:Where does these XKCD numbers come from? Cattle 1740? Humans 556? According to the comic there are 520 Cattle and 358 Humans (million ton). This table makes no sence in the XKCD number department. Appart from that it would be a great table to include in the comic... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:52, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:: fixed [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.8|108.162.241.8]] 19:39, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

:Where does the average weight come from? As the human race is very young (26% below 15 years) and the cattle population has is changed very rapidly - thus there will also be many calves all the time - reducing the average weight far below that of an average adult animal ready to made in to beef... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:: Click on the wiki links below the table and a few more clicks you will find the numbers... add direct source links if you like [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.8|108.162.241.8]] 19:39, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

:Maybe the seal is considered a land mammal by Randal? Only wales are really not land mamals. The link to elephant population seems only to cover African elephants not Asian... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:01, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:Does Randall consider cattle to be all the genus Bos? Waterbuffalo for example weigh about 400kg and wikipedia claims a world population of 130M. That would be 52 blocks. So, I'd assume that since there aren't any free blocks that large, that they are considered cattle. So, then Yaks and Wildebeests should be considered cattle as well, no? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.36|108.162.215.36]] 22:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)rbnm

::Sorry I meant Tribe Bovini not genus Bos [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.36|108.162.215.36]]rbnm

:Rodentia? If the average rodent weighs something like 0.67kg, then 15B rodents would make up 13 squares. 0.67kg comes from the log average of the smallest and largest. If this includes rats (4B per the WHO) - is it reasonable that the rest of Rodentia includes 11B, 1-2 rodents per person on the Earth? That would include: squirrels, porcupines, beavers, guinea pigs, and hamsters; although guinea pigs might be considered pet/livestock (mmm... cuye!). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.36|108.162.215.36]] 23:56, 7 March 2014 (UTC)rbnm

;Title Text
The title text mentions that bacteria outweigh humans by thousands (plural) to one. The notation 1000:1 used in the explanation is therefore not correct.
:True - I did not spot that. I have corrected it to the same version as the title text[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:15, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

;Rabbit
This mammals belong to "Pets/Livestock" and "Wild animals". Any ideas where this does fit in here? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:47, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
:There are several other animals where there could be both a wild and a domesticated (or pet) version. Foes Zoo animals count as pets? Elephant is a good example as they are domesticated in India. Is domesticated only animals where we have changed them - like cows and pigs? In that case the elephant is not domesticated - as it has not been breed into a different race... {{unsigned|Kynde}}

;Deer
This belongs to "Wild animals". Any ideas where this does fit in here? --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 23:52, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

;Smil table
he singles out elephants in the table, and uses Mt of Carbon as a unit. The % of carbon is ~18,5% in humans (I guess this is pretty average for mnammals too, so checking the numbers should take this in to account.

Guessing the unlabeled groups is a pretty futile exercise, are yaks cattle or not, what of reindeers, are both camels and llama and alpacas marked separately. largest wild is likely though rodents, and the smallest likely all wild carnivora. odd-toeds, even-toeds, marsupials, all other mammals are some other likely groups in the 'wilds' section.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.8|108.162.212.8]] 04:40, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Anyone in the US want to spend a few dollars to try and clear up these unlabelled groups? The book used by Randall in creation of this comic is [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0262692988/olibro-20/ available on amazon]. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 15:55, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1037: Umwelt

2014-07-19T14:53:09Z

173.245.54.188:

Normally I understand xkcd. But this one hurts my head. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 20:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
: I sorted all of them out. Phew!!! That was some work. The ones at the end have no appropriate picture in the image part. Atleast the hurricane one should be added. Please do so. [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 11:09, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
:: I live in one of Umwelt's "hurricane areas", and that's the one I see. How do we add it? [[User:Ekedolphin|Ekedolphin]] ([[User talk:Ekedolphin|talk]]) 06:06, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

There is a fixed image used if your browser does not support javascript, which is missing. Additionally, the alt text varies at times. [[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 20:16, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I can't see any of them neither in Firefox nor in IE :( --[[User:Kronf|Kronf]] ([[User talk:Kronf|talk]]) 11:32, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

This has got to be one of my favourite xkcd's! That amount of ingenuity in one edition! [[User:D3KN0W|Dean]] ([[User talk:D3KN0W|talk]]) 22:33, 01 January 2013 (UTC)

There is now also a category page for Jurassic Park, but I'm not sure how to work that into the explanation. [[User:Kaa-ching|Kaa-ching]] ([[User talk:Kaa-ching|talk]]) 09:04, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I can't resist noting that Chrome is sadly mistaken in thinking that its puzzle piece links up to a corner piece - it would have to be an edge piece to do that. Firefox would never have that kind of issue... [[User:Natf|Natf]] ([[User talk:Natf|talk]])
: Supposedly, if there were a puzzle with inner corners, such as one with a plus cut out of it, this could link up as shown. ... I wanna make a puzzle like that now. [[Special:Contributions/99.44.200.140|99.44.200.140]] 08:00, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

It would be difficult to compile, but I think this page would benefit from having the conditions along with the image (for instance, "Displays when running Netscape:") [[Special:Contributions/24.41.66.114|24.41.66.114]] 03:27, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey, um, I think there is an Animaniacs reference. Namely, the question about hot dogs resembles Yakko's question to the Wally Llama except it dealt with packages of eight and packages of ten. (I forget which is which) {{unsigned ip|71.166.47.84}}

I came here to seek informartion about how each strip was seen. Disappointed... Especially after seeing there is a hebrew one!?!?!?!? (number 29) Is it real? Because I assume it should be visible from Israel and I can't see it [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 22:26, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Added two location references to the 2Fast2Furious and Snake comics, with browser references. Anyone know why I got those results? {{unsigned ip|173.245.50.77}}
: I don't, especially since I live in the UK (not Texas) and yet I see the Snake comic? [[User:Enchantedsleeper|Enchantedsleeper]] ([[User talk:Enchantedsleeper|talk]]) 14:14, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a new one, it seems to display when using TOR. Should I add it? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.49.60|173.245.49.60]] 02:22, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
:Yes definitely. [[User:Chriswampler|Chriswampler]] ([[User talk:Chriswampler|talk]]) 16:07, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
::The Reviews comic just as appearing under TOR is actually comic #1036. Can you confirm that it is actually showing up under Umwelt? [[User:Chriswampler|Chriswampler]] ([[User talk:Chriswampler|talk]]) 20:34, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
:::Yes. I checked like ten times. I just did it again.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.153|173.245.53.153]] 20:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
:Honestly I can't do much explaining. Does anyone get it? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.61|108.162.219.61]] 20:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Has anyone tested the Steam browser, whatever it is, with this comic? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.66|108.162.219.66]] 18:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

I tested the Steam browser and got the "This plugin requires Sergey Brin's permission to run" comic, same as when I use Chrome.[[User:RobotSnake|RobotSnake]] ([[User talk:RobotSnake|talk]]) 18:16, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

For the Google Chrome one with Sergey Brin, it reminds me a bit like how German tanks were unable to be moved on D-Day because Hitler, whose order was needed to move them, slept through the first five hours of the batter. It's the same theme of failure due to having only one person able to give permission, and that person being asleep.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.188|173.245.54.188]] 14:53, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1338: Land Mammals

Talk:1037: Umwelt