explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1589: Frankenstein

2026-04-24T00:47:30Z

82.132.238.117:

I get all that—I came here to find out what the moon landing reference is all about. Any ideas? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.191|108.162.249.191]] 04:45, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
: xkcd has referred to "moon landing hoax" theories and their proponents (whom xkcd disparages) a few times, including [http://xkcd.com/202/ 202 "YouTube"], [http://xkcd.com/258/ 258 "Conspiracy Theories"], and [http://xkcd.com/1074/ 1074 "Moon Landing"]; this is (at least) the 4th such reference. [[User:Mrob27|Mrob27]] ([[User talk:Mrob27|talk]]) 05:16, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
: He says that, because he is a MONSTER, and has a damaged brain from a complete moron instead of from a famous scientist. You know - the plot of the movie ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.115.22|162.158.115.22]] 08:58, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:: You think that because you're damaged by watching Young Frankenstein where they used a girl called Abbie Normal's brain. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 22:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Frankenstein A.K.A Elvis. Judging by that hairstyle [[User:Prack|Prack]] ([[User talk:Prack|talk]])
: I suggest the moon landing reference is simply Randall's monster subverting the attempt to redefine the canon. If Randall succeeds in redefining the monster's name, then it also becomes canonical that the moon landings were faked. Randall is unlikely to agree with the canon he has just created.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.127|141.101.98.127]] 10:16, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:: That was my thought too (just not formulated quite as clearly). [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.33|198.41.238.33]] 11:38, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::: I respectfully disagree. The monster saying that the moon landings were faked does not make anything surrounding the moon landings canon. It just makes it canon that the monster Frankenstein now holds this belief. Alternatively, in the story, The Doctor's creation was seen by the populace as an abomination amalgamated from human corpses. In the same vein, moon landing conspiracies are also amalgamated from several different sources each contributing their own theories to support the believer's general consensus, the moon landings were faked, and in the eyes of the populace this idea is an abomination. I'm surprised he didn't go for the low-hanging ''climate change is a hoax'' reference that would have been more recent for readers. In either case, it is fairly common for adherents of theories that run contrary to the scientific community to be labeled and name called by supporters of the scientific community. Especially in matters of religion.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 16:36, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:::: These are good points. It makes sense that Frankenstein was made with the brain of a conspiracy theorist. I don't think Frankenstein is trying to subvert The Doctor's or the comic author's canon-forming efforts, or anything so sophisticated. I ''do'' think these thoughts, in some form, should be in the article. It was not at all obvious why a moon landing hoax reference is in the comic, to me it was irrelevant noise. [[User:Mrob27|Mrob27]] ([[User talk:Mrob27|talk]]) 16:43, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
::::: In Randall's version, claiming the moon landing fake is what makes Frankenstein an abomination, instead of being hideous and committing murder (note Randall's Frankenstein doesn't seem to have much of a bad look, and the story ends immediately). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.23|141.101.66.23]] 18:11, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::: I appreciate the more succinct explanation. I added this as an additional explanation above after the bit about the derivative works. I've never read the original story so I referenced the wiki for accuracy. My apologies if I made a mistake or didn't take the analogy far enough. --[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 20:01, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:::::::I interpreted this as subverting the intention of the whole comic. He's sick of the debate over the name. Then, as soon as that matter is cleared up, the monster raises this famous conspiracy theory, which is the subject of another annoying debate. [[User:Jevicci|Jevicci]] ([[User talk:Jevicci|talk]]) 20:24, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
::::::::To be fair, any moon landings people knew about in 1818 *were* faked. [[Special:Contributions/206.193.5.5|206.193.5.5]] 23:32, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:::::::::Indeed. It was only managed in the 1860s. Any other {{w|From the Earth to the Moon#Background|story from ''before'' 1865}} was just pure fiction. :p [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 00:47, 24 April 2026 (UTC)
::::Re "Climate change is a hoax": Except for the small detail that a significant percentage of the population does, indeed, believe climate change is a hoax. I'm not one of them, but still. Anonymous 21:31, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
"The doctor" is a joke in itself because it's analog to "The monster" of the original, so it's likely to start the same discussions the other way around. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.212|162.158.90.212]] 09:36, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
: While it is also likely a direct callback to the Doctor Who naming issue by capitalizing the word "doctor", I agree that the alt-text is intended to make both "Doctor Frankenstein" or "The Doctor" correct, like the comic makes both "Frankenstein" and "the monster" both now canonically correct. "The Doctor" naming issue is also fairly commonly corrected, but for a different reason and is extremely specific to people who grew up watching the original show. For quite a while during the Classic era, The Doctor's actor at the time was credited as "Dr. Who" or "Doctor Who", despite often being introduced (by himself or his companions) as "The Doctor" during the actual dialogue of the show. So, I'm guessing that Randall's saying that either name in all three of these cases (the monster/Frankenstein, the doctor/Dr. Frankenstein, and The Doctor/Doctor Who) would be the correct name to use. {{unsigned|PopeChris}}
::The credits issue isn't just specific to people who grew up watching the classic show. The Ninth Doctor in 2005 was also credited as "Doctor Who", and Eccleston and Piper regularly referred to the character that way. Capaldi now does so as well (probably because he grew up in the era when the character was credited that way). Just as producer John Nathan-Turner went on a crusade in 1981 to get everyone to start calling the character "The Doctor", actor David Tennant did the same thing in 2006. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.52|162.158.255.52]] 22:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Am I the only one thinking that the mouse over text is a matter of intentionally misunderstanding that the question wasn't about Dr. Who? --some guy[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.175|108.162.238.175]] 13:51, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:Or you can intentionally misunderstand it even further—if you accept this comic as your canon, The Doctor, as in the character from Doctor Who, created Frankenstein, as in the monster. And he also probably wrote the story too. Why not? He started Nero's fire, wrote half of Shakespeare's plays (and one of his companions inspired half of the rest), manipulated someone into killing JFK… --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.52|162.158.255.52]] 22:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the monster's "real" name, I thought either Dr. Frankenstein or the monster himself named him "Adam", as in "Adam and Eve". Anonymous 21:31, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:The monster uses that name, but only metaphorically. Early on, he calls himself "the Adam of your labors", and later he says that he would have been "your Adam" but instead became "your fallen angel". Meanwhile, the fact that Dr. Frankenstein refuses to give the monster a name is an intentional symbol of his rejection of his creation, which the monster picks up on, which is a big part of what he struggles with. So, to say that "his name is Adam" would be a big stretch, and missing the point of the story.

:While nobody ever explicitly calls him "Frankenstein's monster", Dr. Frankenstein calls him "the monster" once, and a few others refer to him as "your monster" or "the monster". The doctor calls him "the creature" far more often, and uses other descriptions like "the demon", "you vile insect", etc., but "Frankenstein's monster" seems like the best name for the character.

:Finally, calling him "Frankenstein" isn't that silly. Why shouldn't he have the same last name as his father? James Whale's movie called him Frankenstein, and almost everything that's come since has been based far more on Whale's movie than Shelley's book. (If you think electricity was involved in bringing him to life, or that he was made of an amalgam of parts from different people, you're no thinking of the book.) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.52|162.158.255.52]] 22:31, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

When Cueball says "Frankenstein is alive! I am a modern Prometheus!" he is confusing things more. The original book's title is "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus" but now the Modern Prometheus and Frankenstein are different entities. [[User:Bartash|Bartash]] ([[User talk:Bartash|talk]]) 22:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
:The original book's title refers to Victor Frankenstein - he is Frankenstein (obviously), and he is a 'modern Prometheus', since he has created life in the same way the Titan Prometheus did. In Randall's version (assuming it keeps the same title), "Frankenstein: or, The Modern Prometheus" suggests a more equal balance of the two main characters. The book follows Frankenstein (the creature), or, The Modern Prometheus (The Doctor).[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.173|141.101.105.173]] 08:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

So basically there's nothing stopping me from renaming the monster "Kevin" if I want. {{unsigned ip|108.162.249.183}}

It's probably just my density, but I can't make sense of : "In Randall's version, he makes the same correlation by having Frankenstein claim the moon landings were faked which by inference produces the same results in The Doctor." Is this making the same point as above, that " In Randall's version, claiming the moon landing [is] fake is what makes Frankenstein an abomination.." -- ? I grasp (& even agree with) the latter, but the former loses me. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.101|199.27.133.101]] 03:30, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
: Yes, and I also think that shorter explanation is much better. Perhaps someone can edit the article to remove the grammatical acrobatics. [[User:Mrob27|Mrob27]] ([[User talk:Mrob27|talk]]) 17:14, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

I'd say it's Igor... (discworld) {{unsigned ip|141.101.75.17}}
:Igor wouldn't. Although perhapth he could thay thomething thimilar. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.185|141.101.75.185]] 14:35, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I guess that brain was from Abby Normal. {{unsigned ip|162.158.142.218|15:27, 8 April 2016}}

I think Randall has an inner troll. The explanation mentions he is apparently tired of the argument - on the other hand, I think he wants to propagate it and add more material.{{unsigned ip|108.162.245.214|18:17, 29 June 2017}}

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-24T00:32:07Z

82.132.238.117: ...whoops, got confused (but I also know of a real Eastlake,, not that it excuses my slipup..)

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::That's the exact opposite of a complex border though: it's just a meeting of four perfectly straight lines. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:41, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:What is it with the Belgians and strange borders? Their border with Germany near Monschau is also a mess of exclaves. --[[Special:Contributions/88.97.176.34|88.97.176.34]] 22:00, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes (the "O"-bottomed ones, like the "G" and "J", more so even than the "O"s themselves) are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find interesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I think the county names are a reference to 2548 [[User:FluffyGuardian70|FluffyGuardian70]] ([[User talk:FluffyGuardian70|talk]]) 22:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:As well as East Valley being in [[2548: Awful People]] (al9ng with mention of an unnamed lake/area near that lake), it is also in [[2553: Incident Report]].
:I wouldn't exactly classify it as a 'reference' to either, myself, but clearly it's some placename that Randall has made up (or appropriated, perhaps memetically mutated, from a handy 'Somewhere County, Somestate' archetype that he knows) when he needs a nondescript placename of a certain type. Like I sometimes use "Hill Valley", as various other works do (could be an original oxymoron imagined up independently, in various cases, could be a knowing/unknowing reference to BttF... though for me I actually [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.981000/-2.682372 know a place] with that name... though haven't looked into if ''that'' was possibly named as a fan reference, if the chronology of it isn't older yet). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 00:30, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-24T00:30:12Z

82.132.238.117:

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::That's the exact opposite of a complex border though: it's just a meeting of four perfectly straight lines. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:41, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:What is it with the Belgians and strange borders? Their border with Germany near Monschau is also a mess of exclaves. --[[Special:Contributions/88.97.176.34|88.97.176.34]] 22:00, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes (the "O"-bottomed ones, like the "G" and "J", more so even than the "O"s themselves) are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find interesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I think the county names are a reference to 2548 [[User:FluffyGuardian70|FluffyGuardian70]] ([[User talk:FluffyGuardian70|talk]]) 22:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:As well as South Valley being in [[2548: Awful People]] (al9ng with mention of an unnamed lake/area near that lake), it is also in [[2553: Incident Report]].
:I wouldn't exactly classify it as a 'reference' to either, myself, but clearly it's some placename that Randall has made up (or appropriated, perhaps memetically mutated, from a handy 'Somewhere County, Somestate' archetype that he knows) when he needs a nondescript placename of a certain type. Like I sometimes use "Hill Valley", as various other works do (could be an original oxymoron imagined up independently, in various cases, could be a knowing/unknowing reference to BttF... though for me I actually [https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.981000/-2.682372 know a place] with that name... though haven't looked into if ''that'' was possibly named as a fan reference, if the chronology of it isn't older yet). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 00:30, 24 April 2026 (UTC)

812: Glass

2026-04-23T20:35:36Z

82.132.238.117: /* Trivia */ Slight content edits, without having double-checked the details of the claimed info. I'm not enough of a musical reader/practioner/theorist to be totally sure of all the terminology.

{{comic
| number = 812
| date = October 29, 2010
| title = Glass
| image = glass.png
| titletext = I read in this one article that the breaking of electroweak symmetry is the reason we have SOULS. This guy with a degree said so!
}}

==Explanation==
In the beginning of the comic, [[Megan]] is trying to break a wine glass like an opera singer. This is a rather famous trick where the vocalist sings at the resonant, or natural frequency of the glass and cause it to resonate more and more until it can no longer handle the stress and breaks - for more info, see the {{w|Mythbusters}} episode about the Earthquake Machine. If the resonant frequency of the glass is outside of the singer's range, then putting some water in the glass will lower its resonant frequency. This effect can be used to play different notes on the rim of a glass by varying the amount of water in it. For example, see this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULiNR-k4m70 video].

While Megan is trying to break the glass by hitting its resonant frequency, she is actually creating something new. This is similar to particle physics where a new particle can be identified by a {{w|Resonance_(particle_physics)|resonance}} peak in the differencial cross-section of a scattering experiment: Known particles plus some very specific amount of energy lead to the creation of a new particle, the Higgs boson. This is represented in the comic with the water and the pitch of Megan's voice creating blood.

The term "God Particle" was coined in 1993 by physicist {{w|Leon M. Lederman}} to describe the {{w|Higgs boson}} because it's "central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive." He originally called it the "goddamn particle", but this was considered offensive, and his editor shortened it to just "God particle", maybe to promote interest in the particle from non-academics too. Many people misinterpret the name to be some kind of link between physics and religion, so physics is getting back at them by playing pranks that resemble famous miracles from Christian tradition:
*Jesus turned water into wine at the marriage in Cana.
*The first of the ten plagues in Egypt turned all of the water into blood — the rivers, canals, ponds, pools, and every sort of container holding water.
*The wine turning into blood is also a reference to the Catholic ritual of {{w|Transubstantiation}}.

Notably, the Higgs Boson was discovered in 2012, 2 years after this comic was released. So at the time, physicists were still looking for the particle.

Notice that, in the last panel, the blood seems to have dripped out of [[Cueball]]'s glass onto the table and solidified instantly, further proof that physics doesn't apply in this scenario.

The title text refers to the breaking of electroweak symmetry. According to the standard model of particle physics, the electromagnetic and the weak interactions were once unified into a single 'electroweak interaction'. Shortly after the Big Bang, the universe underwent a phase transition that split the electroweak interaction into the electromagnetic and weak interactions that we observe today. The word 'symmetry' refers to the SU(2)xU(1) gauge symmetry that is satisfied by the unified electroweak, but has been spontaneously broken in the phase transition. As with many scientific theories, these can be used incorrectly in order to lend credibility to unrelated and nonsensical claims. This particular case is an instance of "quantum woo." Similarly, a degree can be used to lend the appearance of credibility to a person pushing such an idea, regardless of what field it was earned it or whether said person has any competence.
Another comic, albeit much later, about quantum mechanics and souls is [[1240: Quantum Mechanics]]

==Transcript==
:[Megan is singing, Cueball is staring at a glass of water on a table.]
:Megan: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... Anything break?
:Cueball: No, but the water in the glass turned to wine.

:[Cueball picks up glass]
:Megan: Weird.
:Cueball: No, wait. This is blood.

:Megan: Okay, physics, quit fucking with us.
:Voice from above the panel: You stop looking for the Higgs boson and we'll talk.

== Trivia ==
The flat semitone is drawn the wrong way round. The flats drawn are meant to represent semi-flats, which are further subdivisions of tonalities, after normal semitones, which are a group of tonalities used by Angine de Poitrine.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Religion]]
[[Category:Comics with blood]]
[[Category:Comics with a Spanish translation]]

812: Glass

2026-04-23T20:28:07Z

82.132.238.117: Removing bad formatting artefacts... ( Or "artifacts", for Leftpondans, but this is my comment so I'll use my native spelling! :p )

{{comic
| number = 812
| date = October 29, 2010
| title = Glass
| image = glass.png
| titletext = I read in this one article that the breaking of electroweak symmetry is the reason we have SOULS. This guy with a degree said so!
}}

==Explanation==
In the beginning of the comic, [[Megan]] is trying to break a wine glass like an opera singer. This is a rather famous trick where the vocalist sings at the resonant, or natural frequency of the glass and cause it to resonate more and more until it can no longer handle the stress and breaks - for more info, see the {{w|Mythbusters}} episode about the Earthquake Machine. If the resonant frequency of the glass is outside of the singer's range, then putting some water in the glass will lower its resonant frequency. This effect can be used to play different notes on the rim of a glass by varying the amount of water in it. For example, see this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULiNR-k4m70 video].

While Megan is trying to break the glass by hitting its resonant frequency, she is actually creating something new. This is similar to particle physics where a new particle can be identified by a {{w|Resonance_(particle_physics)|resonance}} peak in the differencial cross-section of a scattering experiment: Known particles plus some very specific amount of energy lead to the creation of a new particle, the Higgs boson. This is represented in the comic with the water and the pitch of Megan's voice creating blood.

The term "God Particle" was coined in 1993 by physicist {{w|Leon M. Lederman}} to describe the {{w|Higgs boson}} because it's "central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive." He originally called it the "goddamn particle", but this was considered offensive, and his editor shortened it to just "God particle", maybe to promote interest in the particle from non-academics too. Many people misinterpret the name to be some kind of link between physics and religion, so physics is getting back at them by playing pranks that resemble famous miracles from Christian tradition:
*Jesus turned water into wine at the marriage in Cana.
*The first of the ten plagues in Egypt turned all of the water into blood — the rivers, canals, ponds, pools, and every sort of container holding water.
*The wine turning into blood is also a reference to the Catholic ritual of {{w|Transubstantiation}}.

Notably, the Higgs Boson was discovered in 2012, 2 years after this comic was released. So at the time, physicists were still looking for the particle.

Notice that, in the last panel, the blood seems to have dripped out of [[Cueball]]'s glass onto the table and solidified instantly, further proof that physics doesn't apply in this scenario.

The title text refers to the breaking of electroweak symmetry. According to the standard model of particle physics, the electromagnetic and the weak interactions were once unified into a single 'electroweak interaction'. Shortly after the Big Bang, the universe underwent a phase transition that split the electroweak interaction into the electromagnetic and weak interactions that we observe today. The word 'symmetry' refers to the SU(2)xU(1) gauge symmetry that is satisfied by the unified electroweak, but has been spontaneously broken in the phase transition. As with many scientific theories, these can be used incorrectly in order to lend credibility to unrelated and nonsensical claims. This particular case is an instance of "quantum woo." Similarly, a degree can be used to lend the appearance of credibility to a person pushing such an idea, regardless of what field it was earned it or whether said person has any competence.
Another comic, albeit much later, about quantum mechanics and souls is [[1240: Quantum Mechanics]]

==Transcript==
:[Megan is singing, Cueball is staring at a glass of water on a table.]
:Megan: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... Anything break?
:Cueball: No, but the water in the glass turned to wine.

:[Cueball picks up glass]
:Megan: Weird.
:Cueball: No, wait. This is blood.

:Megan: Okay, physics, quit fucking with us.
:Voice from above the panel: You stop looking for the Higgs boson and we'll talk.

== Trivia ==
The flat semitone is drawn the wrong way around . The flat drawn is meant to represent Semi-flats, which are further subdivisions of tonalities, after normal semitones, which are a group of tonalities used by Angine de Poitrine.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Physics]]
[[Category:Religion]]
[[Category:Comics with blood]]
[[Category:Comics with a Spanish translation]]

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-23T20:21:59Z

82.132.238.117: So many little errors, or inadvertent mis-edits... Bah!

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes (the "O"-bottomed ones, like the "G" and "J", more so even than the "O"s themselves) are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find interesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-23T20:19:48Z

82.132.238.117:

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes (the "O"-bottomed ones, like the "G" and "J", more so even than the "O"s themselves) are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find intetesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-23T20:16:04Z

82.132.238.117:

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes, especially the "O"s, are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find intetesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-23T20:13:13Z

82.132.238.117: /* Counting Exclaves */

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anythin
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's maiuni8n contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes, especially the "O"s, are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find intetesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)