explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2311: Confidence Interval

2020-05-26T15:26:52Z

Godzilla:

What's a millisigma?
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.209|162.158.107.209]] 03:31, 26 May 2020 (UTC)Ven
:Not an official scientific term - most likely referring to standard deviation. One standard deviation, or sigma, is the 68.3 % of values lying around the mean in a normal distribution. A millisigma in a standard deviation would be .0683 % of a normal distribution so that much variation would be bad? Not sure. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.203|172.69.63.203]] 05:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:: Actually, if you [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+1%2Fsqrt%282+*+pi%29+*+exp%28-x%5E2+%2F+2%29+from++-0.001+to+0.001 integrate] a normal distribution <math>\mathcal{N}(0,1)</math> from <math>-\frac{\sigma}{1000}=-0.001</math> to <math>+\frac{\sigma}{1000}=0.001</math>, you'll get a range of about 0.08% of all values. This would be bad because it would mean that, as big as the confidence interval appears in the picture, the more meaningful 1- or 3-sigma interval (whose size represents the uncertainty of the model) would be larger by a factor of 1250 or 3750, respectively. --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] ([[User talk:Koveras|talk]]) 08:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:Perhaps you heard about [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma Six Sigma], a quality method used by General Electric (among others) to keep specifications and processes within tiny tolerances. The six sigmas mean that even absolute (so-called) outliers in your production are within the strict tolerances. With milli-sigmas it is extremely seldom to get an acceptable result at all. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.234|108.162.229.234]] 10:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Can it be related to Covid19 pandemic and all those graphs that try to predict if it is in decline or not? [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 08:27, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
: No. But maybe it's related to the recent Mt. St. Helens comic... :p Seriously, not everything has to be related to the hot-button topic of the day.
::''Au contraire, mes amis'', it is obvious to me that [[1: Barrel - Part 1]] is about socially isolating away from the [[8: Red Spiders|virus]]. (Remember to sign?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.237|162.158.158.237]] 10:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Isn't the (or a) reason that this is a science ''tip'' is that having confidence lines are off the page makes it look as if the prediction is precise? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.65|141.101.99.65]] 11:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Real life example of this comic (scroll down to Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, etc): https://rt.live/
[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 15:26, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

The smaller the error or uncertainty value, the larger the confidence number. A confidence value of less than 1 is usually considered unreliable, but may justify further experiments/observations. Confidence that is practically indistinguishable from 0 means the result is only marginally better than pure chance or a result showing no correlation. Said another way, you have no confidence in your observations. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2311: Confidence Interval

2020-05-26T13:37:36Z

Godzilla:

What's a millisigma?
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.209|162.158.107.209]] 03:31, 26 May 2020 (UTC)Ven
:Not an official scientific term - most likely referring to standard deviation. One standard deviation, or sigma, is the 68.3 % of values lying around the mean in a normal distribution. A millisigma in a standard deviation would be .0683 % of a normal distribution so that much variation would be bad? Not sure. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.203|172.69.63.203]] 05:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:: Actually, if you [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+1%2Fsqrt%282+*+pi%29+*+exp%28-x%5E2+%2F+2%29+from++-0.001+to+0.001 integrate] a normal distribution <math>\mathcal{N}(0,1)</math> from <math>-\frac{\sigma}{1000}=-0.001</math> to <math>+\frac{\sigma}{1000}=0.001</math>, you'll get a range of about 0.08% of all values. This would be bad because it would mean that, as big as the confidence interval appears in the picture, the more meaningful 1- or 3-sigma interval (whose size represents the uncertainty of the model) would be larger by a factor of 1250 or 3750, respectively. --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] ([[User talk:Koveras|talk]]) 08:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:Perhaps you heard about [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma Six Sigma], a quality method used by General Electric (among others) to keep specifications and processes within tiny tolerances. The six sigmas mean that even absolute (so-called) outliers in your production are within the strict tolerances. With milli-sigmas it is extremely seldom to get an acceptable result at all. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.234|108.162.229.234]] 10:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Can it be related to Covid19 pandemia and all those graphs that try to predict if it is in decline or not? [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 08:27, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
: No. But maybe it's related to the recent Mt. St. Helens comic... :p Seriously, not everything has to be related to the hot-button topic of the day.
::''Au contraire, mes amis'', it is obvious to me that [[1: Barrel - Part 1]] is about socially isolating away from the [[8: Red Spiders|virus]]. (Remember to sign?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.237|162.158.158.237]] 10:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Isn't the (or a) reason that this is a science ''tip'' is that having confidence lines are off the page makes it look as if the prediction is precise? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.65|141.101.99.65]] 11:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Real life example of this comic (scroll down to Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, etc): https://rt.live/
[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2311: Confidence Interval

2020-05-26T13:19:44Z

Godzilla:

What's a millisigma?
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.209|162.158.107.209]] 03:31, 26 May 2020 (UTC)Ven
:Not an official scientific term - most likely referring to standard deviation. One standard deviation, or sigma, is the 68.3 % of values lying around the mean in a normal distribution. A millisigma in a standard deviation would be .0683 % of a normal distribution so that much variation would be bad? Not sure. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.203|172.69.63.203]] 05:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:: Actually, if you [https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integrate+1%2Fsqrt%282+*+pi%29+*+exp%28-x%5E2+%2F+2%29+from++-0.001+to+0.001 integrate] a normal distribution <math>\mathcal{N}(0,1)</math> from <math>-\frac{\sigma}{1000}=-0.001</math> to <math>+\frac{\sigma}{1000}=0.001</math>, you'll get a range of about 0.08% of all values. This would be bad because it would mean that, as big as the confidence interval appears in the picture, the more meaningful 1- or 3-sigma interval (whose size represents the uncertainty of the model) would be larger by a factor of 1250 or 3750, respectively. --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] ([[User talk:Koveras|talk]]) 08:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
:Perhaps you heard about [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma Six Sigma], a quality method used by General Electric (among others) to keep specifications and processes within tiny tolerances. The six sigmas mean that even absolute (so-called) outliers in your production are within the strict tolerances. With milli-sigmas it is extremely seldom to get an acceptable result at all. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.234|108.162.229.234]] 10:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Can it be related to Covid19 pandemia and all those graphs that try to predict if it is in decline or not? [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 08:27, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
: No. But maybe it's related to the recent Mt. St. Helens comic... :p Seriously, not everything has to be related to the hot-button topic of the day.
::''Au contraire, mes amis'', it is obvious to me that [[1: Barrel - Part 1]] is about socially isolating away from the [[8: Red Spiders|virus]]. (Remember to sign?) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.237|162.158.158.237]] 10:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Isn't the (or a) reason that this is a science ''tip'' is that having confidence lines are off the page makes it look as if the prediction is precise? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.65|141.101.99.65]] 11:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Real life example of this comic (scroll down to Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, etc): https://rt.live/ ````

Talk:2288: Collector's Edition

2020-04-03T21:38:11Z

Godzilla: /* Browser agent related issues: Post what browser (Chrome, Firefox; mobile, desktop) you are using here & what issues (if any) you experience when interacting with this comic. */

== The joke ==
Very early on April 1st, Mojang\Microsoft released a version 20w14Infinite build of Minecraft which allows players to create millions of wildly different new worlds by writing text in a book & throwing it through a Nether portal. The world generated depends on what is written in the book, & some specific worlds contain many "starter chests" to help the player in their explorations. Players can share what they wrote in each book with others, allowing multiple players to each access the same new dimensions on their own. In this way, individual single-player Minecraft instances can essentially become a collaboratively evolving game featuring previously nonexistent block types. Given that Randall has done multiple comics referencing Minecraft & seems to be an avid player, & given the presence of "chests" & the "worldbuilding" & collaborative nature of this latest comic, I believe xkcd's April 3rd 2020 comic is a reference to this "final" Minecraft build.
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 14:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
== How the comic works ==
... is this going to be like [[1190: Time]]? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.63|162.158.74.63]] 04:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
: I hope so, otherwise I don't get the joke [[User:Forresthopkinsa|Forresthopkinsa]] ([[User talk:Forresthopkinsa|talk]]) 04:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
: The page just went down for me so maybe what we've seen isn't what it's supposed to be? [[User:Avi m|avis_magpie]] ([[User talk:Avi m|talk]]) 04:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Looks like the whole comic was just taken down. [[User:Parzivail|Parzivail]] ([[User talk:Parzivail|talk]]) 04:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
: Can confirm - the most recent comic is Pathogen again [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.207|162.158.187.207]] 04:26, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
It is still up on the mobile website, but only if you directly go to comic page https://m.xkcd.com/2288 [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.146|172.69.22.146]] 05:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
: Perhaps this is a collector's edition because it was only up for a limited amount of time? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.60|05:12, 3 April 2020}}
:: That was my immediate assumption. The title text says, "I'm sure you can find some suitable worldbuilding material if you scavenge through the archives." And I was viewing the comic by using the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine — which, wouldn't you know it, captured the page exactly once before it went down. Between that and the title "Collector's Edition", I can't help thinking that the comic was actually intended to be viewed this way. Though for what reason, and what intended meaning, I couldn't tell you. …And jeez, in the time it took me to type this, the comic is back, but changed! Oy vey. [[User:NoriMori|NoriMori]] ([[User talk:NoriMori|talk]]) 06:42, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Maybe it's called collectors edition, because it was only available quite limited and to an unusual time? But that logic doesn't fit with the title text. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:14, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:I doubt that could be caused by "technical difficulties". [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.186|172.69.34.186]] 06:14, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

It looks like it went back up about 5 minutes age. I can't figure out if it's possible to do more than pan right now though. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.120|108.162.215.120]] 06:39, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Yeah I see the same thing, looks like they're just testing it live. What a shame :(--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 06:47, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::what makes you assume that this is testing right now? however it doesn't seem to be very interactive apart from panning through it, and that it seems to chagne over time (the moon from [[1300]] wasn't there a few minutes ago, was it? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:49, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

:It's a giant pan similar to [https://xkcd.com/1110], although it's mostly empty, with some content at [https://xkcd.com/2288/#-361,-161]
. The title reads that you can find world building material, if you scavenge through the archives. I assume, more content will be unlocked as you read through past comics. [[User:Goatfryed|Goatfryed]] ([[User talk:Goatfryed|talk]]) 06:52, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::That would mean it is individual? That everyone gets their own picture? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC) Edit: I can kinda rule that out. I get the same picture on my phone and my work laptop, the work laptop is in a different country via vpn, and doesn't share any logins/advertisement ID's apart from explain xkcd with my phone... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:05, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, it definitely changes. The orange swimming pool just showed up now. Also, at the bottom of the page, it says something about "backpack", and what appears to be a reference to some other xkcd comic. For example, "Hint: why waste time say few word when lot word do trick", which I think refers to Up Goer Five. But I have no idea what to do with that info. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.141.190|172.68.141.190]] 06:55, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:and the content seems to be related to previous comics and what-ifs... but still no clue what to do apart from exploring the page. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

So I just stumbled upon this and it seems to be exactly as other commentors have theorised: as you read previous comics more stuff gets added to the page. There seems to be some kind of backpack mechanic where you collect items from previous ones somehow, but, perhaps because I've already read all previous comics, that didn't seem to work for me. Instead I just had to click the link above the backpack, which opened the comic in a new tab, and it had a bunch of stuff there. We may need to co-ordinate to figure out if different people end up with different sets of items, and to ensure we have all of them, but I think other than that it should be just a cut and dry thing of making a table with every item in it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.202|162.158.34.202]] 07:12, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Hang on, mine just changed: before there was only 1 pool on the left, now there are two. I only went back to pathogens and then forwards agin. This may be harder than I thought, I'm going to start keeping a screenshot log of actions vs. results. [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 07:17, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:You may need to try xkcd.com instead of www.xkcd.com - there seems to be an issue with the latter at the moment. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.216|162.158.255.216]] 07:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Hold up it changed again! This time without a reload! [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 07:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::It seems to change periodically, the url does change everytime. New stuff always seems to be added, not old stuff rremoved. [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 07:28, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::The URL is related to the coordinates, it changes when you pan the image. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Timings seem to be random, working on double checking that rn. Highest first number so far is 1127, once it switches agin I'm going to experiement with manually editing the url.

I was briefly able to do things. Open the archieve, navigate it to one of the comics, that are hinted for (e.g. compiling or iata) and when viewing that comic I get a lootbox, with an image I can then place in the 2288. It worked twice, and now it doesn't again... neither with those that have worked before, nor with others I am fairly sure have been placed by other people. (such as galilean moons) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:I'm working on assembling an image log, wonder if we could compare? Also, the two number url could be useful, rn I'm on -1378, -152 [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 07:25, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::What do you mean by compare? Also the URL is related to the coordinates, it changes when you pan the image. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:34, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Yh just got that, is that the same for other panning comics (I'm a little new)? And I was wondering if the comic changed per person/system like certain previous comics. [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 07:40, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::Just seen a previous comment from you saying it doesn't change cross-system. However, it definetely changes with time, so the question is whether that's per user or done on a sort of universal clock, so we all unlock the same new content at the same time.
:::::I didn't complete writing up the thing I was able to do above... after opening the lootbox I got one image related to the comic I opened in my backpack and was able to place that in the actual 2288, where it now is placed. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:50, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::For me that didn't happen, it started with a loading screen type thing, and then objects just started appearing seemingly at random. I've also noticed some of them dissapear. I feel like the best course of action would be to start with a table of all the different objects, and then see if we can figure out when/why they appear later.
::::::: At least 2 objects appeared, because I placed them. It is a colaboration of many xkcd readers to do this world building here. I placed one of the sword fights around #439,-181 and the non-inverted kite at #-1679,-290 . --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:55, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::Do you agree that the best course of action would therefore be a table with all the items? [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 08:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::::::Not a big fan of tables, unless there really is content of muliple categories to be entered for one line. A list would do fine I guess? Also I find lists easier to work with. Or what would be the columns you'd set up? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::Something along the lines of the comic that it's a reference to, an image, and an explanation. Do we know if you find the same sticker at the same comic every time? If so, then that. A list would work well too. [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 08:12, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::::::::From looking at what image URLs don't 404, it looks like there are 253 stickers, which is quite a lot for a table.[[User:Matthias1|Matthias1]] ([[User talk:Matthias1|talk]]) 10:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::::I think we can unlock new elements by reading older comics (seemingly at random, it doesn't work with every comic read) and that everyone can see the changes once they are put on the global picture. If someone could check, I have put berret guy and his goat around (5000,0)
::::::Yep, he's there. [[User:Benkor42|Benkor42]] ([[User talk:Benkor42|talk]]) 08:01, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I almost feel like someone needs to show them this xkcd... https://xkcd.com/169/

It seems to be an interactive canvas. You can find stickers in chests on specific comics and put them in your backpack, and then when you come back here you can choose where to put them on the canvas. The hints in the empty backpack are cryptic references to comics. {{unsigned ip|162.158.107.85}}
:Yep, I figured the same thing, but for me it only worked twice (fly from wtf to lol was a reference to the iata thing and compiling was a reference to the compiling one) - but it didn't work again. Also: Some of the placed images are clearly references to what-if. Like the squirrel on top of an AK47 or the yoda powering an IPOD. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I've made a catalog of the stickers but it's only partial because stuff keeps appearing: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dPYeYVpGqu5tqGTt5 [[User:Lev|Lev]] ([[User talk:Lev|talk]]) 08:02, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I got it. I wrote the steps on reddit and included some screenshots. Feel free to use it to edit this page https://old.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/fu1dt0/xkcd_2288_collectors_edition/fmaqp1w/ [[User:Ufolicker|Ufolicker]] ([[User talk:Ufolicker|talk]]) 09:27, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Am I too late to participate in this or am I doing something wrong? Where is this hint supposed to appear? I only see an empty backpack and the canvas on which references to different comics are placed. No comic I've visited, either inspired by references on the canvas, nor by random selection has any chest or other interactive components to it. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 09:53, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:No, you're doing it right. Hints show up in the backpack area. Obviously no one is sure of anything, but even users who have seen hints have reported not seeing hints on a different browser/device. I suspect something similar to [https://xkcd.com/1037/ Umwelt], where different hints are shown to different people. And I think once a chest is picked up, it stops appearing to everyone that could see it, but that's a guess.[[User:Matthias1|Matthias1]] ([[User talk:Matthias1|talk]]) 10:03, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::Ok, I was unsure because on my windows 10 laptop I have yet to see a hint. I've tried chrome, firefox and internet explorer. [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 11:09, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Finally got it to work in Safari in iOS [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 11:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::::I took part in the scavenger hunt and about 2 hours ago it stopped showing hints. So I assume it shut down and there is nothing to do anymore.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [[User:Curse|Curse]] ([[User talk:Curse|talk]]) 15:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

When I view the comic, I don't see the closed box - the screen is absolutely full of stickers. I've not done any scavenger hunting (I'd upload an image, but I don't have permissions to do so) [[User:Kvetch|Kvetch]] ([[User talk:Kvetch|talk]]) 11:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Hints I've seen so far: "The first one was funnier" (chest appeared in comic 1, contained I'm a turtle);
"418 I'm a teapot"
"26th September, 1983" (comic 2052, Stanislav Petrov Day, white dove); [[Special:Contributions/172.69.134.135|172.69.134.135]] 11:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps a table for found chests with no attached hints? I've stumbled across a few but don't know if they're hinted at or not :). [[User:Deranged|Deranged]] ([[User talk:Deranged|talk]]) 11:54, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Maybe add a line to the table with a blank first box, the link in the second box, empty third box? Someone will match it up. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.37|162.158.166.37]] 12:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

"Churchill's gonna have to rehydrate" is Nothing to Offer. Can't remember what number, I think 1148?

In other news, the bad ads are back ([[Talk:2220: Imagine Going Back in Time/Ads|previous discussion]]) - who's in charge of dealing with them anyway? [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 12:25, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Could someone post an image showing what it looks like to find a chest on a comic? I've browsed to some of the comics referenced as having chests but couldn't see one so far. Thanks![[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.13|141.101.69.13]] 12:54, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:I've uploaded a few images on https://imgur.com/gallery/4q1QIW5. Can't upload them here yet, new account [[User:Madsmtm|madsmtm]] ([[User talk:Madsmtm|talk]]) 13:24, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

"The other side of the wardrobe", someone's put in the solution [[2218: Wardrobe]]; but I also found the chest on [[665: Prudence]]. Can there be multiple solutions to the same hint? [[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 13:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Is anyone else having issues with things just not working? I clicked around a bit, it gave me the award in being very smart, and now won't give me any hints or chests. [[User:Crazymachinefan|Crazymachinefan]] ([[User talk:Crazymachinefan|talk]]) 13:57, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
::I am also not getting any hints anymore after getting one chest.[[User:Eesley|Eesley]] ([[User talk:Eesley|talk]]) 14:01, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:::Nope, nothing to get anymore. [[User:Curse|Curse]] ([[User talk:Curse|talk]]) 15:15, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

The "Was it a rat I saw" hint is probably [[1632: Palindrome]]. I haven't gotten the hint yet, so I can't confirm. [[User:Nvaiko24|Nvaiko24]] ([[User talk:Nvaiko24|talk]]) 14:12, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Interestingly, the [[1110: Click and Drag]] disables the backpack overlay. Also, anyone have any news on how to get the Go Big to Go Small hint?

I got the "First annual award for excellence in being very smart" on page 7, rather than 179 as stated above. Can't remember what the hint was. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.222|162.158.34.222]] 14:26, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Found that award on comic 7, too. And "Researchers are reporting record number of sharks (loot 159) on comic 1368, but I'll be damned if I know the hint. Those give me nothing [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.43|162.158.91.43]] 14:44, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Found another one! It's a bug on a box, loot_007. From comic #442, no idea what hint goes with it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.7|162.158.74.7]] 15:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

For the ooOOOooo hint, I've now gone through every comic, and none of them give a chest. [[User:Lawruble13|Lawruble13]] ([[User talk:Lawruble13|talk]]) 19:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

If you scroll almost directly upward, the Y-coordinate keeps resetting to 5000 (same with downward and -5000. However, if you scroll up and to the side with a slope of less than 1, you eventually get to this URL: https://xkcd.com/#-Infinity,-Infinity which just has the word "[LOADING_]" hand-drawn. -- brad
: I think that's just Javascript floatingpoint math for ya. The loading image just appears while it is trying to load in new tiles --[[User:Jhollowe|Jhollowe]] ([[User talk:Jhollowe|talk]]) 19:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

I wrote a script that gives a list of all the loot images that are on the page if we want to make a complete list of loot images, and a list of images that haven't been found yet. --[[User:Jhollowe|Jhollowe]] ([[User talk:Jhollowe|talk]]) 19:11, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Has anyone else gotten a "miniloot"? I just got "/2288/collectors/static/loot/miniloot-words-laser.png" from [[293: RTFM]] with the hint listed in the above table. [[User:Lawruble13|Lawruble13]] ([[User talk:Lawruble13|talk]]) 19:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

In a private window on Firefox, I had previously seen the hint, but it's now disappeared. I got loot_109.png (which is the sheeple eye from [[1013: Wake Up Sheeple]]), and I can place it, but it stays in the inventory. Possible bug? [[User:Lawruble13|Lawruble13]] ([[User talk:Lawruble13|talk]]) 19:43, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
:Viewable at https://xkcd.com/2288/#453,1003, both eyes posted using the same item. [[User:Lawruble13|Lawruble13]] ([[User talk:Lawruble13|talk]]) 19:50, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

== Browser agent related issues: Post what browser (Chrome, Firefox; mobile, desktop) you are using here & what issues (if any) you experience when interacting with this comic. ==

On Chrome version 80.0.3987.162 in mobile view, only "Collector's Edition" appears for me. The comic is not scrollable or interactive, & the backpack does not appear. In desktop view, the collectively added content appears, as does the backpack. (I have not tested whether I can add things, yet.)
[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 13:52, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

On Chrome version 80.0.3987.163 on desktop, the hint doesn't seem to appear. [[User:Lawruble13|Lawruble13]] ([[User talk:Lawruble13|talk]]) 19:41, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Firefox 74.0 on desktop - looks like I don't get any hints. Everything else seems to be fine. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.98|162.158.92.98]] 19:59, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

:Apologies if this has been covered, but if you right-click-->inspect the backpack area, can you see the hint in the Java script? I can't find it with Chrome running in Windows 10, but it is entirely possible I don't know how/where to look.[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 21:38, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2020-04-01T23:23:12Z

Godzilla:

Note that the title text says "not not" -- meaning we're both trapped in here together [[User:John.Adriaan|John.Adriaan]] ([[User talk:John.Adriaan|talk]]) 04:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Randall fixed that. [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Do bacteriophages "afflict" humanity? To my knowledge, they only infect bacteria and are even considered a possible future alternative to antibiotics by some. What is up with them being represented here? 09:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
: Yeah, bacteriophage is just wrong here, it's a generic virus. This type of virus is depicted on the bacteriophage wikipedia page but viruses that affect humans can have that shape also. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.94|172.68.51.94]]
: There are no known human viruses of that shape (source: I'm a biologist), so this seems like more of a mistake on Randall's side (albeit an odd one for him to make, so perhaps somehow deliberate?). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.155|162.158.91.155]] 08:55, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::But... if it affects bacteria and humen have many bacteria (and many/most of them useful) in them, shouldn't it affect the human then as well? indirectly? Source: I have very vague knowledge :D --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It may be deliberate in the sense that almost everyone will go "Oh, that's a virus!" when they see this shape, contrary to the other 2 which look more like big molecules or bacteria.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.7|162.158.111.7]] 09:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The bacteriophage point is now very nicely addressed in the explanation. Good job to all who contributed to that part! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Don’t worry, pathogens! All is not lost. There will always be some humans whose brains don’t work very well, who will buy into ideas like “vaccines cause autism”, or “faith healing”, or “natural remedies”, or “Trump is always right”. You’ll still have hosts. [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User talk:Tualha|talk]]) 07:27, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:That's right [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.158|108.162.216.158]] 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::Not really "always". Those might eventually go extinct. Assuming this kind of stupidity is hereditary ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Arthur C. Clarke said decades ago "It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value." Likewise the hope the COVID-19 pandemic will eliminate people based on their unintelligent behavior is not proven. Based on limited data I am guessing the behavior of people around us affect our survival more then our own behavior.[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Bacteriophages only infect bacteria and some kinds of Archaea, not humans, so the explanation is slightly wrong. They are probably the prettiest and easiest to recognise viral shape though, which is why they are so commonly used in cartoons and illustrations.[[User:Phil|Phil]] ([[User talk:Phil|talk]]) 08:29, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:I am just as much a hobby-virologist as anybody else suddenly is, but I have no clue what you are talking about. I don't even know which of the 3 shapes you mean. So please edit the explanation yourself if you see, that it is wrong. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The narrator-virus in the middle of the three, that looks somewhat like a rotation of a mosquito, with a D20 on top. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage#/media/File:PhageExterior.svg Wikipedia diagram] [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.13|141.101.69.13]] 12:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::D20 systems have a lot to answer for. The original D6 Star Wars worked well enough, and now I learn the D20 version spread viruses! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

"They bought lots of pasta." More like they bought lots of toilet paper! Humans, when we think rationally, can make great things happen. Humans, when we panic, can make incredibly foolish decisions. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 11:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:It's both. At least in the supermarkets close to my place (western Germany), pasta, toilet paper, rice, milk, flour, yeast are all common to be out of stock or almost out of stock and usually their shelfes have by now signs that they will only sell a certain amount of them to each customer. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:14, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Why does one of the voices say, "I hate lungs"? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62|108.162.216.62]] 13:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:To emphasize that they really do want to destroy those lungs. All good here. 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It actually doesn't make sense. Pathogens LOVE lungs - it's a great place for them to have party in. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::I always imagined it was just a reiteration of a past conversation, to whit something like: "Not another lung? We never get to see anything else. Really, George, I don't know why you keep on booking the same old package deal ''every'' time we go abroad. You know, Janice's family always try something different. Instead of just flying in and sitting on the lung all the time they do exciting things like camping out on an interesting door handle then hitching rides on fingers into noses, or even dining out and taking a chance on an unwashed cup to introduce them to an interesting new throat..." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

This comic is a positive message giving good advice to people on how to beat the current COVID-19 spread. But the numbers clearly show it is not working (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-52066105/coronavirus-us-death-rates-v-china-italy-and-south-Korea, and many other locations on the internet.) Continuing to believe this pandemic can be beat with only lock-downs, hand washing and telling people to not do things they do naturally without thinking, is the public health equivalent of engineering design with friction-less surfaces and mass-less pullies. We need solutions that understand human nature and tell people to do things they actually will do, not keep saying the same things over and over again despite experience screaming at us that people are not doing it. The 6 places that have controlled the outbreak (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Japan) have used different methods of testing, tracing, isolating, restricting travel, etc., but the one thing they have in common is a large portion of the population is wearing masks in public. The 5 places with the largest uncontrolled outbreaks (USA (especially NYC) Italy, Spain, Germany and France) are all using the same lock down strategy and all have public health officials discouraging / preventing people from wearing masks in public. This should not be hard to figure out. And saying the limited supply of masks need to go to certain people, not working to increase the number of masks, is what failure looks like. {{unsigned|Godzilla}}
:You know that it's possible to make a mask from piece of fabric at home? It may not be as good as professional mask but would still provide some sort of protection. Also, the amount of masks will go up if China starts making them ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Masks like the 1.2 million defective ones that a Chinese manufacturer sold to the Dutch government for the care workers? Or the simpler ones that Dutch experts say aren't effective because they're bound to be used incorrectly and thus give a false sense of security? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.219|172.69.54.219]] 18:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing". When you regularly shake hands or hug (and then touch your nose or eyes, which people do constantly and subconsciously), the mask is not protective. In other words, there are many factors beyond simply wearing masks that can explain the current differences in virus spread, if such differences are even real (the current numbers are heavily skewed by test availability and criteria for who gets tested). More generally, we currently simply do not have enough information to confidently answer all the questions about this disease and how we should best combat it. Thus, I would recommend using expressions such as "this should not be hard to figure out" sparingly, especially given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::I agree it's not so trivial to figure out, but also that we should both start wearing masks and stop with the shaking hands - both is easy enough to try. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::"In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing"."
These statements are true. It is also true the the 6 places that have controlled the outbreak the best have very different social customs from each other. Likewise with the 5 places where the outbreak is spreading the most; Germans generally do not behave in public like Italians, but both cultures are experiencing similar 2-3 day double rates.
"...given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"..." We all know countless examples in history of "very smart and highly trained people" being wrong for very long periods of time (no-such-things-as-germs, the-earth-is-the-center-of-the-universe, etc.) And the differences in the spread of this outbreak in different countries is not trivial; it is spreading 10s or 100s of time faster in some places then others. These differences are not being explained adequately by the "very smart and highly trained people". At some point we need to realize what we are being told does not match what we are seeing. When we do we will start solving the problem. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

(Hey, people have been putting replies to someone else's unsigned comment under my joke. Lemme just move mine down here. -Jacky720)
{|class="wikitable"
|
Pathogens: ''infect humans through day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: ''stop day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: Checkmate.
|}
[[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

OK the news is saying the CDC is reconsidering their position on the public wearing masks. Note it is not you wearing a mask that protects you, but everyone else wearing one, including the people with the virus who do not show symptoms. The mask catches many of the droplets infected people exhale, sneeze or cough out. This reduces the amount of virus droplets in the air for you to breath in, reduced the virus on surfaces you touch and then bring to your face with your hand, etc..

Here is the one study on home made masks, finding them to be roughly 1/3 as effective as commercial masks: [http://https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/0921A05A69A9419C862FA2F35F819D55/S1935789313000438a.pdf/testing_the_efficacy_of_homemade_masks_would_they_protect_in_an_influenza_pandemic.pdf Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks]

Here is one (of many) source for making a mask: [http://https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/1/21203241/coronavirus-diy-face-mask-homemade-tutorials Everything you need to know about making your own face mask]

[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 23:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2020-04-01T23:06:34Z

Godzilla:

Note that the title text says "not not" -- meaning we're both trapped in here together [[User:John.Adriaan|John.Adriaan]] ([[User talk:John.Adriaan|talk]]) 04:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Randall fixed that. [[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Do bacteriophages "afflict" humanity? To my knowledge, they only infect bacteria and are even considered a possible future alternative to antibiotics by some. What is up with them being represented here? 09:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
: Yeah, bacteriophage is just wrong here, it's a generic virus. This type of virus is depicted on the bacteriophage wikipedia page but viruses that affect humans can have that shape also. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.94|172.68.51.94]]
: There are no known human viruses of that shape (source: I'm a biologist), so this seems like more of a mistake on Randall's side (albeit an odd one for him to make, so perhaps somehow deliberate?). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.155|162.158.91.155]] 08:55, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::But... if it affects bacteria and humen have many bacteria (and many/most of them useful) in them, shouldn't it affect the human then as well? indirectly? Source: I have very vague knowledge :D --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 09:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It may be deliberate in the sense that almost everyone will go "Oh, that's a virus!" when they see this shape, contrary to the other 2 which look more like big molecules or bacteria.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.7|162.158.111.7]] 09:20, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The bacteriophage point is now very nicely addressed in the explanation. Good job to all who contributed to that part! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:04, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Don’t worry, pathogens! All is not lost. There will always be some humans whose brains don’t work very well, who will buy into ideas like “vaccines cause autism”, or “faith healing”, or “natural remedies”, or “Trump is always right”. You’ll still have hosts. [[User:Tualha|Tualha]] ([[User talk:Tualha|talk]]) 07:27, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:That's right [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.158|108.162.216.158]] 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::Not really "always". Those might eventually go extinct. Assuming this kind of stupidity is hereditary ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::Arthur C. Clarke said decades ago "It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value." Likewise the hope the COVID-19 pandemic will eliminate people based on their unintelligent behavior is not proven. Based on limited data I am guessing the behavior of people around us affect our survival more then our own behavior.[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Bacteriophages only infect bacteria and some kinds of Archaea, not humans, so the explanation is slightly wrong. They are probably the prettiest and easiest to recognise viral shape though, which is why they are so commonly used in cartoons and illustrations.[[User:Phil|Phil]] ([[User talk:Phil|talk]]) 08:29, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:I am just as much a hobby-virologist as anybody else suddenly is, but I have no clue what you are talking about. I don't even know which of the 3 shapes you mean. So please edit the explanation yourself if you see, that it is wrong. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:37, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:: The narrator-virus in the middle of the three, that looks somewhat like a rotation of a mosquito, with a D20 on top. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage#/media/File:PhageExterior.svg Wikipedia diagram] [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.13|141.101.69.13]] 12:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::D20 systems have a lot to answer for. The original D6 Star Wars worked well enough, and now I learn the D20 version spread viruses! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

"They bought lots of pasta." More like they bought lots of toilet paper! Humans, when we think rationally, can make great things happen. Humans, when we panic, can make incredibly foolish decisions. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 11:32, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:It's both. At least in the supermarkets close to my place (western Germany), pasta, toilet paper, rice, milk, flour, yeast are all common to be out of stock or almost out of stock and usually their shelfes have by now signs that they will only sell a certain amount of them to each customer. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:14, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Why does one of the voices say, "I hate lungs"? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62|108.162.216.62]] 13:08, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:To emphasize that they really do want to destroy those lungs. All good here. 13:13, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::It actually doesn't make sense. Pathogens LOVE lungs - it's a great place for them to have party in. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::I always imagined it was just a reiteration of a past conversation, to whit something like: "Not another lung? We never get to see anything else. Really, George, I don't know why you keep on booking the same old package deal ''every'' time we go abroad. You know, Janice's family always try something different. Instead of just flying in and sitting on the lung all the time they do exciting things like camping out on an interesting door handle then hitching rides on fingers into noses, or even dining out and taking a chance on an unwashed cup to introduce them to an interesting new throat..." [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.210|162.158.34.210]] 11:23, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

This comic is a positive message giving good advice to people on how to beat the current COVID-19 spread. But the numbers clearly show it is not working (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-52066105/coronavirus-us-death-rates-v-china-italy-and-south-Korea, and many other locations on the internet.) Continuing to believe this pandemic can be beat with only lock-downs, hand washing and telling people to not do things they do naturally without thinking, is the public health equivalent of engineering design with friction-less surfaces and mass-less pullies. We need solutions that understand human nature and tell people to do things they actually will do, not keep saying the same things over and over again despite experience screaming at us that people are not doing it. The 6 places that have controlled the outbreak (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and Japan) have used different methods of testing, tracing, isolating, restricting travel, etc., but the one thing they have in common is a large portion of the population is wearing masks in public. The 5 places with the largest uncontrolled outbreaks (USA (especially NYC) Italy, Spain, Germany and France) are all using the same lock down strategy and all have public health officials discouraging / preventing people from wearing masks in public. This should not be hard to figure out. And saying the limited supply of masks need to go to certain people, not working to increase the number of masks, is what failure looks like. {{unsigned|Godzilla}}
:You know that it's possible to make a mask from piece of fabric at home? It may not be as good as professional mask but would still provide some sort of protection. Also, the amount of masks will go up if China starts making them ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:Masks like the 1.2 million defective ones that a Chinese manufacturer sold to the Dutch government for the care workers? Or the simpler ones that Dutch experts say aren't effective because they're bound to be used incorrectly and thus give a false sense of security? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.219|172.69.54.219]] 18:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing". When you regularly shake hands or hug (and then touch your nose or eyes, which people do constantly and subconsciously), the mask is not protective. In other words, there are many factors beyond simply wearing masks that can explain the current differences in virus spread, if such differences are even real (the current numbers are heavily skewed by test availability and criteria for who gets tested). More generally, we currently simply do not have enough information to confidently answer all the questions about this disease and how we should best combat it. Thus, I would recommend using expressions such as "this should not be hard to figure out" sparingly, especially given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.105|162.158.93.105]] 21:21, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
::I agree it's not so trivial to figure out, but also that we should both start wearing masks and stop with the shaking hands - both is easy enough to try. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:17, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
:::"In a situation like the current one it is wise even for expert epidemiologists, virologists and medical practitioners to be very careful in their assumptions, analyses and conclusions. For anyone with little or no expertise in those fields, that goes doubly so. Note, for instance, that the regions you name as having controlled the outbreak also have very different social customs from those you name as uncontrolled. To an Italian, the everyday way Asians (excuse the generalizations) interact with each other is pretty much equivalent to "social distancing"."
These statements are true. It is also true the the 6 places that have controlled the outbreak the best have very different social customs from each other. Likewise with the 5 places where the outbreak is spreading the most; Germans generally do not behave in public like Italians, but both cultures are experiencing similar 2-3 day double rates.
"...given the knowledge that many very smart and highly trained people are working on "figuring it out"..." We all know countless examples in history of "very smart and highly trained people" being wrong for very long periods of time (no-such-things-as-germs, the-earth-is-the-center-of-the-universe, etc.) And the differences in the spread of this outbreak in different countries is not trivial; it is spreading 10s or 100s of time faster in some places then others. These differences are not being explained adequately by the "very smart and highly trained people". At some point we need to realize what we are being told does not match what we are seeing. When we do we will start solving the problem. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:24, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

(Hey, people have been putting replies to someone else's unsigned comment under my joke. Lemme just move mine down here. -Jacky720)
{|class="wikitable"
|
Pathogens: ''infect humans through day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: ''stop day-to-day contact'' 
Humans: Checkmate.
|}
[[User:Jacky720|That's right, Jacky720 just signed this]] ([[User talk:Jacky720|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Jacky720|contribs]]) 16:38, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

OK the news is saying the CDC is reconsidering the public wearing masks. Here is the one study on home made masks, finding them to be roughly 1/3 as effective as commercial masks: [http://https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/0921A05A69A9419C862FA2F35F819D55/S1935789313000438a.pdf/testing_the_efficacy_of_homemade_masks_would_they_protect_in_an_influenza_pandemic.pdf Testing the Efficacy of Homemade Masks]

Here is one (of many) source for making a mask: [http://https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/4/1/21203241/coronavirus-diy-face-mask-homemade-tutorials Everything you need to know about making your own face mask]

[[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 23:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2020-04-01T13:24:22Z

Godzilla:

Talk:2287: Pathogen Resistance

2020-03-31T13:49:29Z

Godzilla:

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T18:17:55Z

Godzilla:

If we assume this comic is contemporary, i.e. the year she found the beans is 2019, it makes Randall's girlfriend/wife 37 years old.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.84.64|141.101.84.64]] 05:25, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Well... it makes Megan 37 years old. There is nothing here to strongly suggest that cueball and her are Randall and his gf/wife. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

When I was working at a gas station, someone brought in a propane tank which had expired in 1963 (or so). If 1963 and using this scheme, my score would be 96.6.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.251|172.69.33.251]] 06:02, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Propane tanks do not "expire", that is they do not go bad with time, and you do not need to throw them out after the date. The date on these tanks is when they need to be inspected for damage, as mandated by Federal and state laws. If the tank passes inspection a new date in put on and you can keep using the tank (propane suppliers can legally keep refilling it.) [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

: Except that it <q>must be something ''you'' purchased</q> so you can't use that one in the contest. Unless you then purchased it from whoever brought it in… I don't see any rule requiring that the item be new (or otherwise not-yet-expired) when you purchase it, so can we buy old things from other people in order to inflate our score (potentially over 100)? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.76|172.69.42.76]] 06:18, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::That also circumvents the argument "we moved since 2010". If you buy the apartment with kitchen and all equipment, you also purchased the expired item... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I think that part in the title text is referring to "how did we manage to not come across all of our expired items when we moved" rather than "this item was here before me moved in". Some very disorganised people might actually pack up and move all of the items (e.g. food) in their house without first checking or even noticing if it is expired. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.64|141.101.98.64]] 10:52, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::::That was my initial thought too, that she either did it without of noticing, or did not notice it on purpose, to at some point reach this score. But the loophole, good 'ol 42.76 brought up, put this idea up, as an alternative.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:The rules say that the item must be something you, personally '''''purchased'''''...so did they BUY the pickles from Megan's mom? I'd want to see a receipt or something! (And if the pickles were dated to 1978, Megan (whom we've established is 37 years old was not born when the pickles were dated...so for sure, this is cheating! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::They clearly attribute the pickle score to Megan's mum, not to Megan.[[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 13:42, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah - that makes more sense. I had initially read it as these were pickles MADE by her mum and given to Megan - not pickles that her mum purchased. Sadly, we can't work backwards from the 2030 date that Megan needs to wait until in order to beat that score to figure out her mom's age because we don't know on what year her mum discovered the ancient pickles. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There is one caveat to Megan's strategy: since the fraction (year you found item - year item expired)/(your age when you found it) converges to one as time goes on regardless whether the numerator is bigger than the denominator, as long as the item expired before the year of your birth, postponing the discovery reduces your score (considerably).

Her mom's pickles could still have had an expiration date before 1978 - according to [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/sell-and-best-dates-food-are-basically-made-hard-get-rid-180950304/ this article] they were around in the 1950s and on store shelves by 1970. If they were home-canned she could also have dated them herself. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.174.22|172.68.174.22]] 17:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:Perishable foods had expiration dates in the 1970s at least (maybe earlier in some countries and some stores). But non-perishable foods did NOT had dates until the 2000's or later. A home canned jar of pickles could have a hand written date, but this would be the date it was canned, not an expiration date. Because anyone in the 1970s who knew how to can would know if they did it right the food would not go bad. If they did the canning wrong they would not need a expiration date to know this, they would know in a few weeks, by looking through the mason jar at the food inside. Or by looking at the food and glass spread around the pantry after the jar exploded. So Megan's mom could have a loaf of bread with a 1978 date, but not a jar of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 18:17, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

== FOOD SCIENCE ==

''"Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behaviour can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date so that people will re-buy the products sooner."''

Since science and the truth are a big part of both xkcd.com and explainxkcd.com, I think it is important this explanation includes how/why food goes bad, and why expiration dates on jars/cans of food do not serve to protect people from eating bad food. If no one else gets to it first I'll try to type this explanation when I get a chance.

Until then I don't think the explanation should say "...many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods." Although this is true, it is also true many companies put expiration on non-perishable products even through there is no law requiring them to do so. Like cosmetics and jars of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:To be fair, many items are labelled "Best Before" or "Sell By" - implying that the food item will be edible for at least some time beyond that date. Actual expiration dates on preserved food items do seem to be rarer. There are cases of canned food items from the early 1900's still being in good shape after 100+ years - and those would not have had any expiration date. But one issue is that back then, cans were made by soldering sheets of tin together - and the lead in the solder slowly leaches into the food making it unsafe to eat even though the food itself seems well-preserved. So for potential high scores, we should look to: [http://mentalfloss.com/article/555075/11-oldest-foods-and-beverages-ever-discovered The 11 oldest foods and beverages ever discovered] - except that they'd not have any kind of formal expiration date. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 14:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The legal requirements of "expiration dates" for food are less stringent than many believe. In the USA, under FDA regulations, only baby formula cannot legally be sold after its expiration date. Wording like "use by" and "sell by" is not legally binding... more like "guidelines", as Capt. Barbossa would say. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 15:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I think the point that needs to be made in the explanation is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely.

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

If the canning process is done incorrectly and bacteria/fungi/yeast is sealed in the can/jar, the food goes bad in a few weeks, not years. Gases given off by the decomposition process often cause the can to swell, or the normal concave jar lid to bulge upwards. Sometimes the internal gas pressure is enough to burst the can/jar, as used to happen to people who canned at home using mason jars. If it does not burst, you are still going the know the food has gone bad the minute you open the can/jar, even without looking inside.

The above facts are more important then who/how/why expiration dates get put on which products. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 17:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:30:30Z

Godzilla: /* FOOD SCIENCE */

If we assume this comic is contemporary, i.e. the year she found the beans is 2019, it makes Randall's girlfriend/wife 37 years old.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.84.64|141.101.84.64]] 05:25, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Well... it makes Megan 37 years old. There is nothing here to strongly suggest that cueball and her are Randall and his gf/wife. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

When I was working at a gas station, someone brought in a propane tank which had expired in 1963 (or so). If 1963 and using this scheme, my score would be 96.6.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.251|172.69.33.251]] 06:02, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Propane tanks do not "expire", that is they do not go bad with time, and you do not need to throw them out after the date. The date on these tanks is when they need to be inspected for damage, as mandated by Federal and state laws. If the tank passes inspection a new date in put on and you can keep using the tank (propane suppliers can legally keep refilling it.) [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

: Except that it <q>must be something ''you'' purchased</q> so you can't use that one in the contest. Unless you then purchased it from whoever brought it in… I don't see any rule requiring that the item be new (or otherwise not-yet-expired) when you purchase it, so can we buy old things from other people in order to inflate our score (potentially over 100)? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.76|172.69.42.76]] 06:18, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::That also circumvents the argument "we moved since 2010". If you buy the apartment with kitchen and all equipment, you also purchased the expired item... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I think that part in the title text is referring to "how did we manage to not come across all of our expired items when we moved" rather than "this item was here before me moved in". Some very disorganised people might actually pack up and move all of the items (e.g. food) in their house without first checking or even noticing if it is expired. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.64|141.101.98.64]] 10:52, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::::That was my initial thought too, that she either did it without of noticing, or did not notice it on purpose, to at some point reach this score. But the loophole, good 'ol 42.76 brought up, put this idea up, as an alternative.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:The rules say that the item must be something you, personally '''''purchased'''''...so did they BUY the pickles from Megan's mom? I'd want to see a receipt or something! (And if the pickles were dated to 1978, Megan (whom we've established is 37 years old was not born when the pickles were dated...so for sure, this is cheating! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::They clearly attribute the pickle score to Megan's mum, not to Megan.[[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 13:42, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah - that makes more sense. I had initially read it as these were pickles MADE by her mum and given to Megan - not pickles that her mum purchased. Sadly, we can't work backwards from the 2030 date that Megan needs to wait until in order to beat that score to figure out her mom's age because we don't know on what year her mum discovered the ancient pickles. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There is one caveat to Megan's strategy: since the fraction (year you found item - year item expired)/(your age when you found it) converges to one as time goes on regardless whether the numerator is bigger than the denominator, as long as the item expired before the year of your birth, postponing the discovery reduces your score (considerably).

== FOOD SCIENCE ==

''"Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behaviour can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date so that people will re-buy the products sooner."''

Since science and the truth are a big part of both xkcd.com and explainxkcd.com, I think it is important this explanation includes how/why food goes bad, and why expiration dates on jars/cans of food do not serve to protect people from eating bad food. If no one else gets to it first I'll try to type this explanation when I get a chance.

Until then I don't think the explanation should say "...many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods." Although this is true, it is also true many companies put expiration on non-perishable products even through there is no law requiring them to do so. Like cosmetics and jars of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:To be fair, many items are labelled "Best Before" or "Sell By" - implying that the food item will be edible for at least some time beyond that date. Actual expiration dates on preserved food items do seem to be rarer. There are cases of canned food items from the early 1900's still being in good shape after 100+ years - and those would not have had any expiration date. But one issue is that back then, cans were made by soldering sheets of tin together - and the lead in the solder slowly leaches into the food making it unsafe to eat even though the food itself seems well-preserved. So for potential high scores, we should look to: [http://mentalfloss.com/article/555075/11-oldest-foods-and-beverages-ever-discovered The 11 oldest foods and beverages ever discovered] - except that they'd not have any kind of formal expiration date. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 14:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The legal requirements of "expiration dates" for food are less stringent than many believe. In the USA, under FDA regulations, only baby formula cannot legally be sold after its expiration date. Wording like "use by" and "sell by" is not legally binding... more like "guidelines", as Capt. Barbossa would say. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 15:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I think the point that needs to be made in the explanation is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely.

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

If the canning process is done incorrectly and bacteria/fungi/yeast is sealed in the can/jar, the food goes bad in a few weeks, not years. Gases given off by the decomposition process often cause the can to swell, or the normal concave jar lid to bulge upwards. Sometimes the internal gas pressure is enough to burst the can/jar, as used to happen to people who canned at home using mason jars. If it does not burst, you are still going the know the food has gone bad the minute you open the can/jar, even without looking inside.

The above facts are more important then who/how/why expiration dates get put on which products. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 17:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:29:01Z

Godzilla:

{{comic
| number = 2178
| date = July 19, 2019
| title = Expiration Date High Score
| image = expiration_date_high_score.png
| titletext = "Wait, we've MOVED since 2010. How on Earth did--" "Look, some of us were just born to be champions."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by someone, born champion. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon. EXP 20190721}}
[[Randall]] is introducing the rules of a game. If you find an item which you purchased, but is now past its {{w|expiration date}}, you get a score which is what percent of your lifetime elapsed between when the item expired and when you found it. Many perishable items, such as food, cosmetics, medications, batteries, or condoms, have expiration dates, or sometimes best by dates. The only other rule is, that it has to be something you have purchased yourself, so that heritages or stuff that was left in the basement when one moved in, does not count.

The joke is, that owning expired items without of noticing for long here is getting you a high score, while in reality it is not considered favourable.{{Citation needed}}

The other joke is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely (as long as the jar/can is not opened and is undamaged.)

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

Megan's mom does not have a jar of pickles with a 1978 expiration date because in 1978 jars and cans of food did not have expiration dates. Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behavior can incentivize companies to adjust the expiration date, or put expiration dates on non-perishable goods, so that people will re-buy the products sooner.

Megan's age is revealed to be 37, found by substituting 2019 and 2010 into the formula.

The title text continues the conversation from the comic. The beans were apparently bought while living in a different home, meaning they were moved along with Megan's and Cueball's other belongings. This is somewhat unusual as many people take moving as an opportunity to go through their old stuff and get rid of things they no longer need. Another interpretation would be that Megan Cueball didn't bring the beans but bought them along with the kitchen they were found in.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
(Title up in the panel)
What's the most expired item you've found in your house?

Calculate your expiration date high score (must be something you purchased)

(Equation in a circle)
Score equals year you found item subtracting year item expired, divided by your age, multiplied by 100

(Megan and Cueball talking, with Megan holding a can)

Megan: These beans expired in 2010! That's... let's see... 24.3! New personal best!

Cueball:You are never going to beat your mom's jar of pickles from 1978.

Megan: Maybe there are more cans in there. Remind me not to look until 2030.

Cueball: This is the worst competition

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Food]]

2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:26:13Z

Godzilla:

{{comic
| number = 2178
| date = July 19, 2019
| title = Expiration Date High Score
| image = expiration_date_high_score.png
| titletext = "Wait, we've MOVED since 2010. How on Earth did--" "Look, some of us were just born to be champions."
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Created by someone, born champion. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon. EXP 20190721}}
[[Randall]] is introducing the rules of a game. If you find an item which you purchased, but is now past its {{w|expiration date}}, you get a score which is what percent of your lifetime elapsed between when the item expired and when you found it. Many perishable items, such as food, cosmetics, medications, batteries, or condoms, have expiration dates, or sometimes best by dates. The only other rule is, that it has to be something you have purchased yourself, so that heritages or stuff that was left in the basement when one moved in, does not count.

The joke is, that owning expired items without of noticing for long here is getting you a high score, while in reality it is not considered favourable.{{Citation needed}}

The other joke is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely (as long as the jar/can is not opened and is undamaged.)

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

Megan's mom does not have a jar of pickles with a 1978 expiration date because in 1978 jars and cans of food did not have expiration dates. Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behavior can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date, or put expiration dates on non-perishable goods, so that people will re-buy the products sooner.

Megan's age is revealed to be 37, found by substituting 2019 and 2010 into the formula.

The title text continues the conversation from the comic. The beans were apparently bought while living in a different home, meaning they were moved along with Megan's and Cueball's other belongings. This is somewhat unusual as many people take moving as an opportunity to go through their old stuff and get rid of things they no longer need. Another interpretation would be that Megan Cueball didn't bring the beans but bought them along with the kitchen they were found in.

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
(Title up in the panel)
What's the most expired item you've found in your house?

Calculate your expiration date high score (must be something you purchased)

(Equation in a circle)
Score equals year you found item subtracting year item expired, divided by your age, multiplied by 100

(Megan and Cueball talking, with Megan holding a can)

Megan: These beans expired in 2010! That's... let's see... 24.3! New personal best!

Cueball:You are never going to beat your mom's jar of pickles from 1978.

Megan: Maybe there are more cans in there. Remind me not to look until 2030.

Cueball: This is the worst competition

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Food]]

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:17:09Z

Godzilla: /* FOOD SCIENCE */

If we assume this comic is contemporary, i.e. the year she found the beans is 2019, it makes Randall's girlfriend/wife 37 years old.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.84.64|141.101.84.64]] 05:25, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Well... it makes Megan 37 years old. There is nothing here to strongly suggest that cueball and her are Randall and his gf/wife. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

When I was working at a gas station, someone brought in a propane tank which had expired in 1963 (or so). If 1963 and using this scheme, my score would be 96.6.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.251|172.69.33.251]] 06:02, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Propane tanks do not "expire", that is they do not go bad with time, and you do not need to throw them out after the date. The date on these tanks is when they need to be inspected for damage, as mandated by Federal and state laws. If the tank passes inspection a new date in put on and you can keep using the tank (propane suppliers can legally keep refilling it.) [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

: Except that it <q>must be something ''you'' purchased</q> so you can't use that one in the contest. Unless you then purchased it from whoever brought it in… I don't see any rule requiring that the item be new (or otherwise not-yet-expired) when you purchase it, so can we buy old things from other people in order to inflate our score (potentially over 100)? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.76|172.69.42.76]] 06:18, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::That also circumvents the argument "we moved since 2010". If you buy the apartment with kitchen and all equipment, you also purchased the expired item... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I think that part in the title text is referring to "how did we manage to not come across all of our expired items when we moved" rather than "this item was here before me moved in". Some very disorganised people might actually pack up and move all of the items (e.g. food) in their house without first checking or even noticing if it is expired. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.64|141.101.98.64]] 10:52, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::::That was my initial thought too, that she either did it without of noticing, or did not notice it on purpose, to at some point reach this score. But the loophole, good 'ol 42.76 brought up, put this idea up, as an alternative.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:The rules say that the item must be something you, personally '''''purchased'''''...so did they BUY the pickles from Megan's mom? I'd want to see a receipt or something! (And if the pickles were dated to 1978, Megan (whom we've established is 37 years old was not born when the pickles were dated...so for sure, this is cheating! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::They clearly attribute the pickle score to Megan's mum, not to Megan.[[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 13:42, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah - that makes more sense. I had initially read it as these were pickles MADE by her mum and given to Megan - not pickles that her mum purchased. Sadly, we can't work backwards from the 2030 date that Megan needs to wait until in order to beat that score to figure out her mom's age because we don't know on what year her mum discovered the ancient pickles. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There is one caveat to Megan's strategy: since the fraction (year you found item - year item expired)/(your age when you found it) converges to one as time goes on regardless whether the numerator is bigger than the denominator, as long as the item expired before the year of your birth, postponing the discovery reduces your score (considerably).

== FOOD SCIENCE ==

''"Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behaviour can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date so that people will re-buy the products sooner."''

Since science and the truth are a big part of both xkcd.com and explainxkcd.com, I think it is important this explanation includes how/why food goes bad, and why expiration dates on jars/cans of food do not serve to protect people from eating bad food. If no one else gets to it first I'll try to type this explanation when I get a chance.

Until then I don't think the explanation should say "...many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods." Although this is true, it is also true many companies put expiration on non-perishable products even through there is no law requiring them to do so. Like cosmetics and jars of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:To be fair, many items are labelled "Best Before" or "Sell By" - implying that the food item will be edible for at least some time beyond that date. Actual expiration dates on preserved food items do seem to be rarer. There are cases of canned food items from the early 1900's still being in good shape after 100+ years - and those would not have had any expiration date. But one issue is that back then, cans were made by soldering sheets of tin together - and the lead in the solder slowly leaches into the food making it unsafe to eat even though the food itself seems well-preserved. So for potential high scores, we should look to: [http://mentalfloss.com/article/555075/11-oldest-foods-and-beverages-ever-discovered The 11 oldest foods and beverages ever discovered] - except that they'd not have any kind of formal expiration date. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 14:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The legal requirements of "expiration dates" for food are less stringent than many believe. In the USA, under FDA regulations, only baby formula cannot legally be sold after its expiration date. Wording like "use by" and "sell by" is not legally binding... more like "guidelines", as Capt. Barbossa would say. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 15:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I think the point that needs to be made in the explanation is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely.

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

If the canning process is done incorrectly and bacteria/fungi/yeast is sealed in the can/jar, the food goes bad in a few weeks, not years. Gases given off by the decomposition process often cause the can to swell, or the normal concave jar lid to bulge upwards. Sometimes the internal gas pressure is enough to burst the can/jar, as used to happen to people who canned at home using mason jars. If it does not burst, you are still going the know the food has gone bad the minute you open the can/jar, even without looking inside.

The above facts are more important then who/how/why expatriation dates get put on which products. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 17:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:14:52Z

Godzilla: /* FOOD SCIENCE */

If we assume this comic is contemporary, i.e. the year she found the beans is 2019, it makes Randall's girlfriend/wife 37 years old.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.84.64|141.101.84.64]] 05:25, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Well... it makes Megan 37 years old. There is nothing here to strongly suggest that cueball and her are Randall and his gf/wife. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

When I was working at a gas station, someone brought in a propane tank which had expired in 1963 (or so). If 1963 and using this scheme, my score would be 96.6.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.251|172.69.33.251]] 06:02, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Propane tanks do not "expire", that is they do not go bad with time, and you do not need to throw them out after the date. The date on these tanks is when they need to be inspected for damage, as mandated by Federal and state laws. If the tank passes inspection a new date in put on and you can keep using the tank (propane suppliers can legally keep refilling it.) [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

: Except that it <q>must be something ''you'' purchased</q> so you can't use that one in the contest. Unless you then purchased it from whoever brought it in… I don't see any rule requiring that the item be new (or otherwise not-yet-expired) when you purchase it, so can we buy old things from other people in order to inflate our score (potentially over 100)? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.76|172.69.42.76]] 06:18, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::That also circumvents the argument "we moved since 2010". If you buy the apartment with kitchen and all equipment, you also purchased the expired item... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I think that part in the title text is referring to "how did we manage to not come across all of our expired items when we moved" rather than "this item was here before me moved in". Some very disorganised people might actually pack up and move all of the items (e.g. food) in their house without first checking or even noticing if it is expired. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.64|141.101.98.64]] 10:52, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::::That was my initial thought too, that she either did it without of noticing, or did not notice it on purpose, to at some point reach this score. But the loophole, good 'ol 42.76 brought up, put this idea up, as an alternative.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:The rules say that the item must be something you, personally '''''purchased'''''...so did they BUY the pickles from Megan's mom? I'd want to see a receipt or something! (And if the pickles were dated to 1978, Megan (whom we've established is 37 years old was not born when the pickles were dated...so for sure, this is cheating! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::They clearly attribute the pickle score to Megan's mum, not to Megan.[[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 13:42, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah - that makes more sense. I had initially read it as these were pickles MADE by her mum and given to Megan - not pickles that her mum purchased. Sadly, we can't work backwards from the 2030 date that Megan needs to wait until in order to beat that score to figure out her mom's age because we don't know on what year her mum discovered the ancient pickles. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There is one caveat to Megan's strategy: since the fraction (year you found item - year item expired)/(your age when you found it) converges to one as time goes on regardless whether the numerator is bigger than the denominator, as long as the item expired before the year of your birth, postponing the discovery reduces your score (considerably).

== FOOD SCIENCE ==

''"Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behaviour can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date so that people will re-buy the products sooner."''

Since science and the truth are a big part of both xkcd.com and explainxkcd.com, I think it is important this explanation includes how/why food goes bad, and why expiration dates on jars/cans of food do not serve to protect people from eating bad food. If no one else gets to it first I'll try to type this explanation when I get a chance.

Until then I don't think the explanation should say "...many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods." Although this is true, it is also true many companies put expiration on non-perishable products even through there is no law requiring them to do so. Like cosmetics and jars of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:To be fair, many items are labelled "Best Before" or "Sell By" - implying that the food item will be edible for at least some time beyond that date. Actual expiration dates on preserved food items do seem to be rarer. There are cases of canned food items from the early 1900's still being in good shape after 100+ years - and those would not have had any expiration date. But one issue is that back then, cans were made by soldering sheets of tin together - and the lead in the solder slowly leaches into the food making it unsafe to eat even though the food itself seems well-preserved. So for potential high scores, we should look to: [http://mentalfloss.com/article/555075/11-oldest-foods-and-beverages-ever-discovered The 11 oldest foods and beverages ever discovered] - except that they'd not have any kind of formal expiration date. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 14:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The legal requirements of "expiration dates" for food are less stringent than many believe. In the USA, under FDA regulations, only baby formula cannot legally be sold after its expiration date. Wording like "use by" and "sell by" is not legally binding... more like "guidelines", as Capt. Barbossa would say. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 15:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I think the point that needs to be made in the explanation is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely.

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

If the canning process is done incorrectly and bacteria/fungi/yeast is sealed in the can/jar, the food goes bad in a few weeks, not years. Gases given off by the decomposition process often cause the can to swell, or the normal concave jar lid to bulge upwards. Sometimes the internal gas pressure is enough to make the burst the can/jar, as used to happen to people who canned at home in mason jars. If it does not burst, you are still going the know the food has gone bad the minute you open the can/jar, even without looking inside.

The above facts are more important then who/how/why expatriation dates get put on which products. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 17:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T17:13:58Z

Godzilla: /* FOOD SCIENCE */

If we assume this comic is contemporary, i.e. the year she found the beans is 2019, it makes Randall's girlfriend/wife 37 years old.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.84.64|141.101.84.64]] 05:25, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:Well... it makes Megan 37 years old. There is nothing here to strongly suggest that cueball and her are Randall and his gf/wife. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

When I was working at a gas station, someone brought in a propane tank which had expired in 1963 (or so). If 1963 and using this scheme, my score would be 96.6.
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.251|172.69.33.251]] 06:02, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Propane tanks do not "expire", that is they do not go bad with time, and you do not need to throw them out after the date. The date on these tanks is when they need to be inspected for damage, as mandated by Federal and state laws. If the tank passes inspection a new date in put on and you can keep using the tank (propane suppliers can legally keep refilling it.) [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:40, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

: Except that it <q>must be something ''you'' purchased</q> so you can't use that one in the contest. Unless you then purchased it from whoever brought it in… I don't see any rule requiring that the item be new (or otherwise not-yet-expired) when you purchase it, so can we buy old things from other people in order to inflate our score (potentially over 100)? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.76|172.69.42.76]] 06:18, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::That also circumvents the argument "we moved since 2010". If you buy the apartment with kitchen and all equipment, you also purchased the expired item... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:20, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I think that part in the title text is referring to "how did we manage to not come across all of our expired items when we moved" rather than "this item was here before me moved in". Some very disorganised people might actually pack up and move all of the items (e.g. food) in their house without first checking or even noticing if it is expired. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.64|141.101.98.64]] 10:52, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::::That was my initial thought too, that she either did it without of noticing, or did not notice it on purpose, to at some point reach this score. But the loophole, good 'ol 42.76 brought up, put this idea up, as an alternative.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:The rules say that the item must be something you, personally '''''purchased'''''...so did they BUY the pickles from Megan's mom? I'd want to see a receipt or something! (And if the pickles were dated to 1978, Megan (whom we've established is 37 years old was not born when the pickles were dated...so for sure, this is cheating! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
::They clearly attribute the pickle score to Megan's mum, not to Megan.[[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 13:42, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
:::Yeah - that makes more sense. I had initially read it as these were pickles MADE by her mum and given to Megan - not pickles that her mum purchased. Sadly, we can't work backwards from the 2030 date that Megan needs to wait until in order to beat that score to figure out her mom's age because we don't know on what year her mum discovered the ancient pickles. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:48, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

There is one caveat to Megan's strategy: since the fraction (year you found item - year item expired)/(your age when you found it) converges to one as time goes on regardless whether the numerator is bigger than the denominator, as long as the item expired before the year of your birth, postponing the discovery reduces your score (considerably).

== FOOD SCIENCE ==

''"Since then many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods. In some instances this can have the negative effect of people throwing out good food by blindly following the suggested expiration date. This behaviour can incentivise companies to adjust the expiration date so that people will re-buy the products sooner."''

Since science and the truth are a big part of both xkcd.com and explainxkcd.com, I think it is important this explanation includes how/why food goes bad, and why expiration dates on jars/cans of food do not serve to protect people from eating bad food. If no one else gets to it first I'll try to type this explanation when I get a chance.

Until then I don't think the explanation should say "...many countries introduced laws and regulations requiring companies to put expiration dates on perishable goods." Although this is true, it is also true many companies put expiration on non-perishable products even through there is no law requiring them to do so. Like cosmetics and jars of pickles. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 13:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

:To be fair, many items are labelled "Best Before" or "Sell By" - implying that the food item will be edible for at least some time beyond that date. Actual expiration dates on preserved food items do seem to be rarer. There are cases of canned food items from the early 1900's still being in good shape after 100+ years - and those would not have had any expiration date. But one issue is that back then, cans were made by soldering sheets of tin together - and the lead in the solder slowly leaches into the food making it unsafe to eat even though the food itself seems well-preserved. So for potential high scores, we should look to: [http://mentalfloss.com/article/555075/11-oldest-foods-and-beverages-ever-discovered The 11 oldest foods and beverages ever discovered] - except that they'd not have any kind of formal expiration date. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 14:10, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

The legal requirements of "expiration dates" for food are less stringent than many believe. In the USA, under FDA regulations, only baby formula cannot legally be sold after its expiration date. Wording like "use by" and "sell by" is not legally binding... more like "guidelines", as Capt. Barbossa would say. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.64|172.68.34.64]] 15:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I think the point that needs to be made in the explanation is both the items in the comic (a can of beans and a jar of pickles) do not go bad with time but in fact remain edible indefinitely.

Food going bad, in the sense that it will make you sick if you eat it, is most often caused by harmful bacteria growing in the food. Less often caused by fungi or yeast growing in the food and creating a poisonous substance, like methanol (wood alcohol.) The process of canning food involves boiling it to kill all possible pathogens, then sealing it in a can/jar while the food is still hot, with no air bubble. As long as this process is done correctly, as long as the jar lid has an air tight seal, and as long at the can is not punctured or gets a hole rusted through, no bacteria/virus/yeast/fungi can get in and the food can not spoil. Some food may discolor over time in the jar/can, or the texture may change, but it can not go bad in a way that makes it unsafe to eat.

If the canning process is done incorrectly and bacteria/fungi/yeast is sealed in the can/jar, the food goes bad in a few weeks, not years. Gases given off by the decomposition process often cause the can to swell, or the normal concave jar lid to bulge upwards. Sometimes the internal gas pressure is enough to make the burst the can/jar, as used to happen to people who canned at home in mason jars. If it does not burst, you are still going the know the food has gone bad the minute you open the can/jar, even without looking inside.

The above facts are more important then who/how/why expatriation dates get put on which products. [[User:Godzilla|Godzilla]] ([[User talk:Godzilla|talk]]) 17:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T13:54:27Z

Godzilla: /* FOOD SCIENCE */ new section

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T13:40:11Z

Godzilla:

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T12:43:00Z

Godzilla:

Talk:2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T11:41:17Z

Godzilla:

2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T11:21:22Z

Godzilla:

2178: Expiration Date High Score

2019-07-19T11:20:42Z

Godzilla: