explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

1717: Pyramid Honey

2016-08-10T05:14:27Z

GrayJay: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1717
| date = August 8, 2016
| title = Pyramid Honey
| image = pyramid_honey.png
| titletext = They CLAIM honey was found in the chambers under the pyramids, but this conspiracy goes all the way to the TOP, where the GIANT EYE is!
}}

==Explanation==
Bee {{w|honey}} is a food item with natural antimicrobial properties. It can remain unspoiled for a person's entire lifetime, making it practically nonperishable for ordinary consumers. It is frequently claimed that archaeologists have found jars of honey that have been well-preserved for thousands of years in ancient tombs. The claims are generally assertions which may point to other similar assertions as supporting evidence but do not provide specific details, such as the identity of the actual tombs where such jars have been found, nor the names of the archaeologists who have affirmed finding such jars. The commonality of the assertion, however, leads some people to claim that honey's shelf life is "infinite", which is a much stronger claim which would not be supported by the assertion even if it is shown to be factual.

In the comic, [[Cueball]] tells [[Megan]] about an article in ''{{w|Smithsonian (magazine)|Smithsonian Magazine}}'' (presumably [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-science-behind-honeys-eternal-shelf-life-1218690/ this one]) that claims honey has an infinite shelf life. The article links to a book which makes the assertion of such findings but does not provide factual support of the findings. Megan thinks the sources of the article are wrong and wants to refute it. [[Black Hat]] upon hearing Megan's claim that the ''Smithsonian'''s source is wrong, immediately decides to spread it on the Internet without giving Megan a chance to explain any further. "A hill to die on" is a phrase from Ernest Hemingway's 1940 novel "For Whom the Bell Tolls", about an American who volunteers in the 1936-1939 Spanish Civil War to fight fascism, who ends up wounded and alone, about to ambush the enemy to give his comrades a chance to escape; "a weird hill to die on" would thus mean a weird cause, if not a just one, to fight for to the bitter end.

Black Hat's actions are clearly premature, since he has not heard any evidence to back up the claim and does not understand the nuances of Megan's position. Presumably, the best he can do would be to parrot what he has heard from Megan, without any understanding or critical thinking on his part. Due to his lack of understanding, he may even interject his own ideas (ones Megan never believed nor stated) into his posts. These are all consistent with him calling himself "pyramid honey truther". The word ''truther'' refers to people who reject established facts and instead choose to believe in conspiracies, like {{w|Moon landing conspiracy theories|people who claim the moon landings never happened}}, or {{w|9/11 Truth movement|people who believe the US government is behind the 9/11 attacks}}. While some conspiracy theories turn out to be true, most, like the two mentioned here, are fake. This turns Megan, who likely has a reasonable and well-justified position, unwillingly into the source of conspiracy theories.

The alt-text refers to the {{w|Eye of Providence}} and the {{w|Illuminati}}, a symbol of an eye at the top of a pyramid, found on US currency and often associated with conspiracy theories of secret societies.

This comic is likely a satire of the stereotypical internet mindset, and plays up the frequent confusion between legitimate scientific scepticism, where unsupported claims are rejected, and conspiracy-theory faux-scepticism, where legitimate evidence is rejected because it does not support a specific viewpoint.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball and Megan are talking]
:Cueball: Apparently honey has an infinite shelf life. They just found jars of it in the pyramids, still good.
:Megan: You know, I've heard that, and I don't think its true.

:[Black hat enters]
:Cueball: Really? Smithsonian magazine confirmed it.
:Megan: Believe it or not, I think their source is wrong.
:Black Hat: '''''I believe you.'''''

:Megan: See I read about the archeologists who-
:Black Hat: I'm convinced. Gonna go to tell the internet.

:Megan: Wait, are you sure? Let me explain why I-
:Black Hat: Don't need it. I've heard enough.

[Zoom-in on Black Hat's head.]
:Black Hat: I've been looking for a weird hill to die on, and all the real ones are too far from my house. So this is mine. I'm now a pyramid honey truther.

[Zoom back out. Black Hat starts walking out, waving his hand.]
:Black Hat: Time to start a Facebook group and post a bunch of all-caps comments everywhere.
:Cueball: This could have gone better.
:Megan: Oh well.

:Alt-text: They CLAIM honey was found in the chambers under the pyramids, but this conspiracy goes all the way to the TOP, where the GIANT EYE is!

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]

Talk:1717: Pyramid Honey

2016-08-10T04:36:04Z

GrayJay: "a hill to die on" comes from Hemingway's "For Whom the Bell Tolls"

Seems like this could be the [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-science-behind-honeys-eternal-shelf-life-1218690/ Smithsonian reference]! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:53, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Anyone know what the counter source or argument is?{{unsigned ip|141.101.98.16}}

This looks like it could be the source that inspired the strip:

http://irna.lautre.net/Honey-in-the-pyramids.html{{unsigned ip|173.245.54.53}}

Looks like a place to start digging for references: http://bumblehive.com/honey-was-not-found-in-pharaohs-tombs/ {{unsigned|JourneymanWizard}}

Did Randall draw the wrong colored hat?? [[User:Jameslucas|jameslucas]] ([[User talk:Jameslucas|" "]] / [[Special:Contributions/Jameslucas|+]]) 15:09, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
: Nah, I think it's just IRL trolling. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.80|173.245.54.80]] 15:34, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Could this be the ned of Black Hat? The end of ''xkcd?!'' [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.51|173.245.54.51]] 16:06, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Correction: this doesn't put "Megan unwillingly into the same camp as conspiracy theorists" it puts Black Hat there.{{unsigned ip|108.162.246.111}}
: No. Black hat is very much willing to join the conspiracy theorist camp. Rather, he creates it. Megan isn't a conspiracy theorist, her scepticism towards Cueballs honey claims are perfectly valid. But to an outside observer, she promotes the same viewpoint as Black hat. Indeed, Black hat even refers to Megan for "evidence". So Megan is forever assosiated with the Pyramid Honey truthers, despite having nothing to do with them. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.70|141.101.80.70]] 09:35, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

[https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/4wq6pf/xkcd_1717_pyramid_honey/d690yct This Reddit thread] cites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Ancient_times [[Special:Contributions/172.68.35.71|172.68.35.71]] 18:58, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

The phrase "a weird hill to die on" could probably use an explanation, too, as I'd never heard of that (or its apparent source phrase "Is this the hill you want to die on?", based on some quick googling) before. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.101|199.27.133.101]] 23:04, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
: "Is this the hill you want to die on?" sounds to me like a line from a war movie, e.g. this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger_Hill. Maybe its origin is indeed something military, as some sources suggest: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/162813/what-is-the-origin-of-the-phrase-a-mountain-im-willing-to-die-on [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:49, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I have a possible source for the "weird hill to die on" reference, saw it on BBC a while back: Body on the Moor; http://www.bbc.com/news/resources/idt-e8c6cbab-da44-4a3c-8f9b-c4fccd53dd24. {{unsigned ip|108.162.244.85}}

Every particle physicist knows that the shelf life of honey is at most 1042 years, just like everything else. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.129|108.162.215.129]] 00:51, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
: Only if you assume nucleon decay. If Earth doesn't get absorbed into a black hole and then Hawking Radiated out, the honey would just continue to cool long into the heat death of the universe, eventually cold-fusioning via quantum-tunnelling into Iron-56 by 101500 years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe#Future_without_proton_decay. [[User:Ehryk|Ehryk]] ([[User talk:Ehryk|talk]]) 02:23, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

re: tooltip - I thought it was a floating giant eye? --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.28|173.245.54.28]] 00:59, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

The "weird hill to die on" phrase could mean a point of view Black Hat will defend to the last, regardless the sense of it (which makes sense with the militarian source).
He might find such a thing worth to find because it would give his entire life a (though in general maybe and in this case definitely unuseful) purpose.
furthermore, by simply spreading Megan's claim without considering the nuances of her point and questioning it thouroughly he does basically the same as ll the people who claim honey's shelf life to be infinite (who apparently never thought of asking for further information where exactly the honey was found and by whom).
{{unsigned ip|162.158.83.228}}
:when the explanation for "weird hill to die on" as a phrase gets settled the explanation should probably also reference Black Hat's mixing of the metaphorical use (a debate position or principled stand) and a literal hill ("[A]ll the real ones are too far from my house.") [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.242|108.162.237.242]] 12:24, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

So, the "hill to die on" expression does relate back to the military some. Hills are good defensive places (ask any Civilization player). It's much easier to defend yourself when the other army is trying to run up a hill. Hence why lots of forts and military battles are associated with hills. The hill you die on, then, is that area of contention that you'll stubbornly defend to the very end. And of course Black Hat is making something like a zeugma when he mixes the metaphorical and literal meanings. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.152}}

"a hill to die on" appears in chapter 27 of the novel "For Whom the Bell Tolls", by Ernest Hemingway, published in 1940, about the 1936-1939 Spanish Civil War in which many non-Spanish volunteers joined the fight on one side or the other for ideological reasons. The book ends with the American protagonist, alone and wounded, preparing to ambush the enemy to buy time for the escape of his comrades; he will probably not survive. [[User:GrayJay|GrayJay]] ([[User talk:GrayJay|talk]]) 04:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)--

Some facts about honey [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlzHiURdTs Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy] --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.207|162.158.92.207]] 14:27, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

"While some conspiracy theories turn out to be true, most, like the two mentioned here, are fake": while it's completely clear that the Moon landing not happening theory is false, we can't be 100% sure about the 9/11 theories at the moment (of course, the one mentioned is highly unlikely, but it's not refuted to the level of the moon landing conspiracy theories at the moment). I suggest correcting this statement into something weaker.{{unsigned ip|198.41.242.75}}