explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:2381: The True Name of the Bear

2024-07-24T17:25:21Z

IcarusProblem:

This one is ridiculously early. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.120|172.69.22.120]] 05:22, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Let’s try this again, hopefully won’t get stepped on this time... I know I’ve seen Gretchen on various YouTube channels but is she really “the world's foremost internet linguist” as Randal claims?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.87|162.158.79.87]] 05:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:Probably as a linguist studying internet culture, which she is indeed one of the most famous in that area. Most popular linguist on the internet? It's everyone's guess.
:From Randall Munroe to Tom Scott... how much more proof do you need? Or is it a conspiracy theory waiting to happen? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.143|162.158.74.143]] 16:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, after being mentioned by Randall she totally might become the most known one.

"Arth" is Welsh for bear.
:Sounds rather close to the French "[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ours#French ours]" (which derives from Latin and whose pronunciation has virtually nothing in common with the English word of the same spelling).--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.29|141.101.69.29]] 15:24, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hence King Arthur [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.183|162.158.158.183]] 20:22, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Hmm... I find Ponytail's behaviour strange. At first she asks for explanation/verification of Megan's claim and when she recieves it she yells "NO!" as if she already knew it would be true... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:She gets confirmation that the name is lost in panel 3 (and assumes it also confirms the summoning part). So she indeed knew by panel 4.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 10:51, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:: Why isn't the bear's name summoning it after its name being said out loud in panel 3, though? Or is the name only "true" in English (in which the name didn't exist until Gretchen reconstructed it)? Doesn't make sense. /edit: I know we are talking about myths and superstition here and thus it might be all somewhat hazy but this comic is imho not self-consistent. I'm not used to inconsistent comics on XKCD (unless it's done on purpose for humorous effect which in this case seems not to be true). Thus my irritation. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 11:13, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::They are clearly in England (or the Anglosphere in general, though English isn't the official language in the US, merely customary) and by the Rules Of Summoning an English/etc 'bear' ''must'' only respond to the locality-sanctioned word (said with intent, not a coincidentally homophonic collection of syllables, not saying the exact same word but in the sense of being actually quoting a different language that uses the same word).
:::I theorise that the Welsh are saying ''their'' bear-name in slightly the wrong accent for being useful to summon a Welsh bear (maybe it should be more "Ardd"?) due to excessive Anglicisation. Or the Celtic way of not-saying-the-true-Celtic-word is to habitually say the Anglic one, which thus does not count. Or the Welsh bears are just confused by the current trend for dual-language signage and expect/require both. (Welsh then English in one half of the country, English followed by Welsh in the other part of the nation.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.208|141.101.98.208]] 12:55, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::If we're worried about consistency here, how is it that all the Romance language speakers (e.g. Orso for Italians, Oso for Spaniards, etc) get away without being constantly mauled? Perhaps it's only the *true* name of the bear, -rkto, that summons the animal. I suppose that would give an explanation of why we don't see any Indo-European speakers around nowadays... [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 13:37, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
:::*NOTE* I've added an explanation that attempts to summarize this consistency discussion. But somebody reverted it. Why? It doesn't seem out of line, compared to a lot of what I read on explainxkcd. [[User:Gbisaga|Gbisaga]] ([[User talk:Gbisaga|talk]]) 14:29, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

:: It need not be so complicated. Perhaps there is only 1 ur-bear (ha ha) that can teleport when it hears the magic word. If the magic word is said many times every day in Wales, that ur-bear would be exhausted by teleportation and only rarely does saying the name cause it to do so. Whereas in English, the first time in years it has been summoned is in this comic, so of course it comes. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:54, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Or simply the summoning only works when the true name is said in the currently spoken language (English), not as a foreign word. And consistency on how it works or doesn't work in other languages is really really overthinking, as this comics is not about other languages and says nothing on summoning technicalities.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.66|141.101.68.66]] 00:53, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: How does the bear know which language is spoken, though... Besides, I'm not sure if this is overthinking if it's basically the first thought I had regarding this comic. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 12:34, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Fascinating! In Russian, the word for bear is also euphemistic, pronounced as ''medved'', which roughly means "knowledgeable about honey". But until today, I thought that something like "ber" is in fact its true name. Turns out it's not even that. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.236|162.158.238.236]] 14:02, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: Actually, ''medved'' is 'honey-eater', see these two links (in Russian) https://pikabu.ru/story/kto_krayniy_za_medvedem_fenomen_tabu_v_lingvistike_5812897 and https://pikabu.ru/story/kak_rabotaet_istoricheskaya_lingvistika2_v_berloge_yetimologa_5817400 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
::Accurate! [[User:Lettherebedarklight|aoijgpisbHtejsykl7ekderhtsjk6r64os4kys\\\[]jsrtjgdrghtvgwrhtejyku5dli6;78t7l6rk5j4h|||||#Rty-----WWWWWWfflfllfllfllfeogk0q9wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww4-cv;c;;c;c[;]z\]d;v[\]????????OH GOD IT'S CRASIHNG MY PC��]] ([[User talk:Lettherebedarklight|talk]]) 06:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
::: Being Russian, I van tell that "med" part means honey, but "ved" part is arhaic word for "know" (compare to "vedma" - witch - "woman, who knows things"). And ''medved'' is a next generation of euphemism - in old slavic bear's name was "ber" (Russian "berloga" - bear's lair) and it is now considered "true name".
:::: Roughly, the 'honey-eater' etymology has the 'v' originating from "medu" being an u-stem and probably "ed" 'eating' lacking the prothetic 'j'. This wouldn't be possible in newer words and is counter-intuitive to modern speakers of most/all Slavic languages, it should shows how old is the word formation. Not sure about the detailed arguments for this etymology, but [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Slavic/medv%C4%9Bd%D1%8C wiktionary] has some good links. Even as a folk-etymology 'knowledgeable about honey' shows a more spiritual than fearful relation to bears, but the line can be thin. "berloga" and cognates on the other hand seem to be pretty unclear.
::::Interestingly enough, while all slavic languages have a variation of "medved" as the name for bears, ukrainian is the only one that turns the words around to turn it into "vedmidʹ" (it could also be regular phonetic mutation, toough); Baltic languages seem to use unrelated words (between them and to the rest of Indo-Euripean languages), while on the Indo-Aryan side of things, Persian languages go the "urs" route (although with a strange pronunciation), while Indian languages seemingly go down the bear route, with the word in all of them coming from Sanskrit bhallūkaḥ. I still don't know why Scottish Gaelic uses "mathan", although it meay or may not be related to the "med" in medved.--[[Special:Contributions/172.64.238.164|172.64.238.164]]
:I've just been down a Wikipedia rabbit-hole, because of this information, to try to work out why I don't remember it being reported that Medvedev had resigned and replaced by Mishustin. (Or replaced ''with'' him, wherever he emerged from, ''by'' Putin, to be strictly accurate.). Probably we were more concerned about the Constitutional changes, then 'other things' hit the headlines. Not comic-related, but thank you for enlightening me on both linguistic and (as a side-effect) political subjects. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.26|162.158.158.26]] 16:39, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

: What were the linguistic speculations that the header mentioned? Even if there's no source, they shouldn't be removed.

I thought the reconstruction was *rtkos, not *rktos? Wikipedia agrees: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/h₂ŕ̥tḱos [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.205|162.158.183.205]] 16:14, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
: You’re absolutely correct. Not only is the thorn cluster backwards according to the most commonly accepted reconstruction, it also has the wrong velar (should be *k̑, not *k), AND the laryngeal is missing. The syllabicity marker on the *r is also missing, though the nature of the right-to-left syllabification rule means that the *r would at least automatically be syllabified anyway. This was the main thing that really bothered me about this comic, along with the fact that the expected English form would absolutely not be ''**arth'', but ''*urth'' (or perhaps just ''*ur'' (OE ''*urh-'').
: So yes, there’s an awful lot wrong with the actual linguistics in this one. Which is very disappointing. :-( [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.40|162.158.134.40]] 09:40, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
:: I'm surprised you wrote all that while somehow completely forgetting that these are reconstructions and thus not definitive. Case in point: Etymology online gives both ''*rtko'' https://www.etymonline.com/word/bear and ''*rkto-'' https://www.etymonline.com/word/arctic (apparently it survives in the word 'arctic'. Who knew?) . [[Special:Contributions/172.71.214.212|172.71.214.212]] 16:48, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
:::The fact that reconstructions of a proto-language can never be proven with certainty does not mean that one has the freedom to change them however one wants. We have abundant evidence that PIE thorn clusters were originally of the form *TK rather than *KT, both from internal reconstruction (*dʰegʷʰ > English "day" has a zero-grade of *dʰgʷʰey > Greek φθίνω) and from the comparative method, with the original form preserved in Tocharian and most importantly Anatolian. The metathesis of thorn clusters in the other branches is well-documented, and Latin "arctic" does not represent a retention of the original form but rather a metathesis common to most IE branches. Evidence for an alternative reconstruction of **rkto- would involve providing an actual linguistics paper rather than a webpage that does not even include the laryngeal (which, incidentally, is preserved along with the original thorn cluster in Hittite ḫartaggaš) or the palatovelar.

I bet a dollar that the long-lost English word for "bear" was "Voldemort". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.242|108.162.215.242]] 01:03, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

: Oh-oh. You said it. This is why you need to create an account - you don't want people randomly summoning you by your true name "Mr/Ms 108.162.215.242" !! [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 17:48, 5 November 2020 (UTC) (Not my real name which is...oh wait...nearly got me there!)

In Finnish bear is karhu, which is also an euphemistic word meaning "the rough one". There are many other words for bear as well, such as kontio (one that walks slowly), nalle ("bear" in Swedish), mesikämmen (the nectar palm), metsän kuningas (the king of the forest), kouko/kouvo (some kind of ghost?), otava (this one would take way too long to explain) and finally oksi/ohto/otso, which likely is the true name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.239|162.158.238.239]] 11:46, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

A safe name to avoid the name of something dangerous is known as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name noa-name] [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/noa (further reference)]. You find it also for the wolf, devil, god, leprechauns etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.215|162.158.154.215]] 20:51, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

The etymological joke might be on the comic writer - hrtkos might be itself a euphemism, cognate with a word in Sanskrit that meant "destroyer" - possibly "hive destroyer."
"''there is also a suggestion that the original PIE word for bear, *rkso- (or its variants) is itself descriptive, meaning "destroyer (perhaps of beehives)", because a cognate word in Sanskrit is "rakshas", meaning "harm, injury''""
Who really knows? Same source identifies the name in Lithuanian as a different euphemism - "the shaggy one." And wonders about a German, a Slav, and a Balt arguing about the best circumlocution while being careful not to slip up and make themselves an xkcd punchline. Anyway, it's a fun read: [https://charlierussellbears.com/LinguisticArchaeology.html] [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 22:52, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

I wonder if the fact that the brown bear (aka grizzly) has been disappearing from most of North-America as the Germanic languages expanded there, could be cited as (weak) evidence that the euphemism actually prevents bears from appearing.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 13:12, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

This has mainly to do with what's called taboo in linguistics and often doesn't only mean the use of an euphemism for a word, but also the complete disappearance of any reletad worlds, or in some cases even worlds that sound vaguely similar. A commonly reported modern example is the presence of at least ten different terms to refer to the restroom in english, where there isn't really (as far as I know) a fear of summoning anything. On the other hand magical thinking was probably more common and bears where a real treath. The commonly given explanation for this phenomenon is inevitably simplicistic, and arguably less funny as it could be a comparable explanation about toilets. I find the slavic euphemism more funny, but germanic languages are considered the kentum languages most close to satem ones and the significance of this distinction is somewhat disputed, so this may actually have a great importance (I really hope some day the same could be said about water closets).

It's worth mentioning that this is the same joke as the "Wake up sheeple!" one.

In David Anthony - The Horse The Wheel and Language (2007) page 24 it's mentioned that speakers of the Proto-Indo-European (PIE) language probably avoided speaking the name of the bear for ritual reasons

Some links marked with the padlock symbol have a hovertext saying, "Warning: TV Tropes. See comic 609." I've seen this in other pages here. It's not clear to me what our reaction is supposed to be to these. Is it telling us that the link is unsafe to click on? (If that were meant, why not just remove the link?) Or is it telling us to click on the link to see what the warning actually is? [[User:Koro Neil|Koro Neil]] ([[User talk:Koro Neil|talk]]) 03:51, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
:It is meant to warn that you might get stuck in a wiki walk and be distracted, if I remember correctly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.211|172.70.130.211]] 17:39, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

Talk:1397: Luke

2023-12-15T03:32:45Z

IcarusProblem:

Vader: *turns fleshlight on* An invisible blade? That is quite interesting. I should build one of these myself. (Alternately, ''I find your lack of blade disturbing'')[[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 05:55, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:I was assuming that if you go ahead and turn on the fleshlight, you would get a column of a sticky white plasma shooting out insteaed [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.205|199.27.133.205]] 18:51, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

What are these "connection to previous comic" things? They seem random and arbitrary. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.205|199.27.133.205]] 06:15, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:There usually seems to be a point of contact with the previous comic. That a connection is usually there means it probably isn't coincidental but is part of the ingredients for making each new comic. So yes they do seem random and arbitrary because the content of the connection doesn't mean anything. The point is just that every comic is connected to the previous comic. The explanations of the connections may be incorrect. I thought I'd put these connection sections in to see how people feel about having a regular connection section. [[User:Rfvtg|Rfvtg]] ([[User talk:Rfvtg|talk]]) 06:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::It may be a good idea, but I see no connection, just a lame pun. There usually dorsn't seem to be much of a connection anyways.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.130|173.245.48.130]] 07:14, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
::I don't think there's a real connection. I think that you're finding arbitrary segues, because you can segue between just about any two topics if you try. Try this - pick two random xkcd, and see if you can't find a "connection". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.209|108.162.249.209]] 11:57, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:::I agree. This is the most stupid idea I have seen here on explain. Please remove them again. Thay make no sence and spoils the nice look of this great page. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Anyone want to mention that this is probably referencing is a weird quirk of the films? We never see Luke construct a lightsaber (unless I missed something), and it's easy to assume that it's actually... I think Ben Kenobi's or Yoda's, maybe (for prequel enthusiasts) even Qui Gon's... After all, if Obi kept Anakin's, maybe he'd also keep Qui-Gon's, and any others, and end up leaving at least one green sabre on the Falcoln. Anyway, my point is, Randall noticed that this line of dialogue isn't really explained, and Luke is probably going along with Darth's assumption to save face... And then took the awkward situation to new heights. I can't tell if I'm being a total idiot here or if I'm on to something. Or option three, it's something glaringly obvious but needs a mention to explain the comic in context [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.234|141.101.99.234]] 10:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:Vader would probably recognize his mentors' lightsabers at first glance. Yes, it could be another unknown dead Jedi's saber, but it just as likely that Luke constructed one of his own, given he does not react in an obvious way to the suggestion. (Ignoring the Star Wars EU, which probably details exactly how Luke constructed the device.) Besides, we are shown Kenobi's, Yoda's and QG's lightsabers in the movies.[[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 11:39, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:There exists a deleted scene from Star Wars VI that shows Luke building his new lightsaber: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ayT0EZwbks] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.53|108.162.254.53]] 13:45, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:: Why would we need to see him build it? He lost his in the previous film. And he now has a snazzy new green one, along with much improved skill. The obvious conclusion is he built it. Vader then sees it and confirms that this is a mark Luke has gotten stronger. There is no reason to doubt that he built it. And before the prequels and such, we wouldn't have imagined there were thousands lying around. Now everyone and anyone has a light saber even up to Luke's time. When the movie came out, it was never clear how many Jedi there ever were. But it seemed to have been a very small number. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.212|108.162.215.212]] 23:49, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:: I may be (mis)remembering something from the D6-based Star Wars tabletop RPG system (1980s, prior to this current D20 malarky), or something else "canon-derived-but-not-actually-canon" but ''personally'' creating one's own lightsabre is supposed to be something special. Obtaining/refining the crystals/whatever and tuning the device to work better with one's own Force Ability makes for a more harmonious relationship between Jedi/Apprentice Jedi and his or her weapon. Luke starts off 'raw' in the force (only with the innate and untrained ability) and with another individual's device (albeit his father's, which may count for something, the way these things work) but then like the various mythological instances of warrior-cum-blacksmiths (or blacksmith-cum-warriors) forging their own blade, something (even if only the Law of Narrativium) makes this self-made artefact singularly suitable for the fighting style of the creator/wielder. Or allows them to tune their still developing fighting style to the 'personality' of the weapon, if it is a two-way street.
:: Naturally, how far any of this can be extended towards the ''Fleshlight'' is very much arguable. Although if ''it'' is personally designed and built, to suit their own 'needs' then it's probably much better at the function it is intended to fulfil than an off-the-shelf or a (*shudder*) borrowed or ''hand-me-down'' one... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 00:08, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
:Boy, we're plumbing the depths of Star Wars geekdom here, aren't we? :) I think one other thing you folks are overlooking is that Vader is ''smart'' and ''powerful''. He can see and deduce things that most other people can't, mostly due to his powerful connection to the Force. In the movie, I believe that when he says "I see you've constructed a new light saber", he's not only remarking on its visible newness, but he properly senses Luke's memory of having done so. This fits, given a number of other lines later in the movie where Vader remarks on Luke's feelings, especially in "betraying" Leia as his sister. So even more than when he sees the saber itself, Vader probably knew well ahead of time that Luke had built one, part of his "rite of passage" to become a Jedi. (Personally, all of this makes the fleshlight joke that much funnier, IMO. :)) [[User:KieferSkunk|KieferSkunk]] ([[User talk:KieferSkunk|talk]]) 16:02, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
:Besides the evidence that others have brought that Luke did in fact construct his own lightsaber, we know that Luke's new lightsaber cannot be Ben Kenobi's since his lightsaber is blue, while Luke's lightsaber is green. Yoda's lightsaber is also green, but he lost it in his duel with the Emperor and never seems to have recovered it, and it is additionally much shorter than Luke's. Qui-Gon Jinn's lightsaber presumably fell into the shaft in the Plasma Refinery Complex, and there is no indication that it was every found again. Besides, the hilts of the lightsabers are visually different, especially insofar as Luke's lightsaber has a prominent "switch."
This comic reminds of Vader's Little Princess and Darth Vader and Son by Jeffrey Brown.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.183|141.101.104.183]] 13:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Isn't ''which he apparently brought with him on the attack on the Forest Moon of Endor'' a pretty big assumption, given a white background? Seems more likely they're on Hoth (Or in his son's bedroom).[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.86|108.162.216.86]]

;Vibrate?

Fleshlights don't vibrate do they? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.202|108.162.246.202]] 18:14, 21 July 2014‎ (UTC)
:It's an available option. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.39|199.27.133.39]] 18:29, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
: It wasn't an available option when I bought mine :([[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.86|108.162.216.86]]

"turn on" seems to be a pun. To switch on vs. to excite sexually. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.167|141.101.104.167]] 19:10, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

"...most commonly a vagina." [Citation needed] {{unsigned ip|173.245.50.139}}

Talk:2251: Alignment Chart Alignment Chart

2023-12-12T01:40:28Z

IcarusProblem:

OK, hope someone will now explain it after I created this page. I'm lost on this one ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Arrgh, edit conflict! [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 11:55, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the Punnet Square is ''also'' a meme template...[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.229|162.158.154.229]] 15:59, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I vaguely remember Randall to refer to the clay-sand diagram (or whatever it is called) as his all time favorite diagram on what-if somewhere. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 12:35, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
:You vaguely remember "Starsand" from https://what-if.xkcd.com/83/ with the quote "Fortunately, there's a wonderful chart by the US Geologic Survey that answers all these questions and more. For some reason, I find this chart very satisfying—it's like the erosion geology edition of the electromagnetic spectrum chart." directly applicabe to this chart[[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 17:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I fear any attempt to "explain" the CIE chromaticity diagram will devolve into arguments about why Randall chose it. I have found that folks outside the world of optics or neurooptical studies have a hard time understanding why the raw colors available in single wavelengths comprise that short curvy line inside the full colorspace. The way our brain processes the relative signal strengths from the different types of retinal cones is quite amazing. [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 12:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
:CGW I'm shocked! Surely you know that single-wavelengths are the curvy outer boundary while the inner curvy line shows the response to blackbody spectra. ;-) -Fred [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.61|173.245.52.61]] 19:55, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks for that; I was about to question the statement myself. All in all, I feel the current explanation of the chromaticity diagram doesn't really explain much, and seems unnecessarily biased to boot. I know just enough about chromaticity to think it's wrong but not enough to correct it. [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 19:58, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
:::I agree that explanation isn't great, if it's not improved when I have free time tonight I'll take a stab at it. Or maybe CelloCGW will, since he IS an optics guru (which is why I had to raz him).[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.61|173.245.52.61]] 20:13, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

@Fred - mea culpa. I should think before writing. Fortunately :-), the ratio of the colorspace to any 1-dimensional line's area is still infinite! [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 20:33, 6 January 2020 (UTC) .... now that someone did post some explanation of CIE, more comments. The current CIE spec may be paywalled, but it has changed little if at all over the last 40 or 50 years, so it's not all that hard to get the values. There are several sites (naturally I've lost the URLs) which provide algos to convert HSM to RGB to HSV and so on. See Wikipedia, https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/003/cie.15.2004.tables.xls , and similar repositories [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 20:44, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

:I redid the CIE explanation - focusing on describing the diagram, rather than one thing it might get used for (e.g. black body). I think the diagrams on the right are labeled chaotic because they are not some neat geometric shape over-all. I didn't really follow much of what was there, so feel free to revive some of it if it seems useful. (My background in color theory comes from computer science and graphics, rather than from physics or hardware design.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.201|162.158.107.201]] 00:57, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
::It's better! Though it might be nice to explain what the x and y coordinates on the CIE diagram represent. (I personally have no clue, even after perusing Wikipedia.) As for chaoticness and shape, really CN and CE are the one two that aren't simple geometric shapes; even CG is a trapezoid. [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 15:04, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm only familiar with 4th and 5th edition, but should the "Good/neutral/evil:" axis eplanation be changed to "selfless deeds or selfish deeds"? Good and evil are highly subjective ("One person's 'freedom fighter' is another person's 'terrorist'.") but at least in 5e the axis is explained as risking/sacrificing yourself for the benefit of others (Good) vs. sacrificing others for your own benefit (Evil). Also, the explanation of the CN character may benefit from dividing which parts of the explanation are "chatoic" vs "neutral". Finally the "lacking rhyme or reason" part of chaotic is highly debated within D&D circles. There are certainly people who play that way, but there are also others who feel that chaotic characters have just as much motivation and goals as a lawful or neutral character just that part of their motivation is to act contrarily to Tradition/Authority. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.54|162.158.186.54]] 14:37, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

: It seems from this page that even nerds tend to interpret the alignment system by the ‘common sense’ meaning of the names instead of the detailed explanation. I once simply went through the Wikipedia article, which cited the second edition IIRC: ‘lawful’ means sticking to ''some'' code of conduct, whereas ‘chaotic’ is a pure opportunist or behaves randomly. ‘Good’ and ‘evil’ indeed mean selfless vs selfish deeds, but afaik in one of the official explanations ‘evil’ meant exercising authority over others—so all managers would be ‘evil’ automatically. [[User:Aasasd|Aasasd]] ([[User talk:Aasasd|talk]]) 16:42, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure the phase diagram is for Water - that has nine solid phases. Surely it is merely a simple example.
[[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 16:52, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

As an interesting note, this comic's alt-text also ends with a period inside of a quote. This was discussed at length in the previous comic. [[User:Agrasin|Agrasin]] ([[User talk:Agrasin|talk]]) 16:52, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm just upset that both a soil diagram and the QAPF were included, but not the TAS. Where's the love for extrusive igneous rocks? [[User:Mergelong|Mergelong]] ([[User talk:Mergelong|talk]]) 18:22, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

BTW, I offer my condolences and wish luck to the person who's going to make a transcript of this comic. [[User:Aasasd|Aasasd]] ([[User talk:Aasasd|talk]]) 22:28, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

"lawful heterozygous silty liquid" Is this not him being Lawfull, having inherited different forms of a particular gene from each parent, and basically a bag full of salt water? [[User:Nappy|Nappy]] ([[User talk:Nappy|talk]]) 07:51, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

A phase diagram was also used in https://what-if.xkcd.com/138/ [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.7|162.158.89.7]] 08:23, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

The phase diagrams for oxygen and radon look similar to the Lawful Neutral one here. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.166|172.68.34.166]] 23:06, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Is it coincidence that the evil chaotic diagram looks a bit like a brain? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.9|162.158.158.9]] 10:52, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Made a "real" one using actual picts from the internet based on this comic ... but ALSO using his comic. Meta, meta, meta, maybe? https://imgur.com/gallery/CagOh8s

I'm fairly certain that Randall is classifying himself using the Omnispace classifier, rather than referencing "the true neutral, neutral good, lawful good, and lawful neutral charts in the Alignment Chart Alignment Chart." as the current description suggests. If you look at the Omnispace classifier, Silt, Liquid, Heterozygous, and Lawful Good all share a common point on the chart. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.207|172.69.68.207]] 17:55, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

It is unclear to me why the explanation claims that the chart in the comic is missing the low central vowel ä. The official IPA chart does not include this vowel, and the use of a diaresis to indicate centralization, like all other diacritics for indicating relative articulation, are given in a separate section from the main chart. Granted, the vowel chart on Wikipedia does include ä, but there is no reason that we should expect XKCD to do the same. That said, the omission of ɐ is quite odd, and seems to be an error.

== Omnispace Classifier ==

I think the Omnispace Classifier is meant to be a horrific Frankenstein amalgamation of the other 8 kinds of chart. Theoretically it can "classify anything" since it can classify anything the other 8 can, but practically it would obviously be totally useless, or at least a lot less useful than just using the specific chart that works for the situation. [[User:Pureawes0me|Pureawes0me]] ([[User talk:Pureawes0me|talk]]) 12:09, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

In the description of the Omnispace Classifier, saying "the diagram created for this comic is considered to be chaotically evil." is wrong. The diagram created for this comic is ''not'' an Omnispace Classifier, it is an alignment chart. It's even in the title "Alignment Chart Alignment Chart". [[User:Pureawes0me|Pureawes0me]] ([[User talk:Pureawes0me|talk]]) 14:11, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
:I concur. [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] ([[User talk:LtPowers|talk]]) 15:04, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
I feel the "Omnispace Classifier" is actually chaotic evil due to its mishmash of axes, which change randomly in topic and direction depending where you look on the graph. --[[User:GoldNinja|GoldNinja]] ([[User talk:GoldNinja|talk]]) 17:43, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

== Chart Position Rationale ==

The page currently tries to explain each chart's position based on the content of the chart, e.g. the political compass chart is lawful because politics relates to laws. I think this is wrong: the charts are arranged based on their properties ''as charts''. It's not based on whatever it is they represent. This feels more in character with how Randall tends to do things. It also avoids making a bunch of value judgments about various topics. [[User:Khaim|Khaim]] ([[User talk:Khaim|talk]]) 23:05, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Possible explanations for each chart:
* Soil chart: Information-dense, continuous, triangular
* Punnett square: Simple, square
* IPA vowel chart: Irregular shape
* Phase diagram: Square, continuous
* Alignment chart: "A is A"
* CIE chromaticity diagram: Irregular shape, ''curved'', nonlinear
* Political compass: Square (lawful), highly subjective, not very useful
* QAPF rock diagram: Diamond shape is misleading since it's actually two ternary charts stuck together, not very useful (unless you're a geologist?)
* Omnispace classifier: Totally made up, irregular, completely useless
[[User:Khaim|Khaim]] ([[User talk:Khaim|talk]]) 23:31, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

:I agree with this, and it's how I first interpreted the comic.--[[User:GoldNinja|GoldNinja]] ([[User talk:GoldNinja|talk]]) 23:40, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
:Well, the point is to make any connection to both axis of the chart. Your explanations do not do that properly either. e.g. for IPA vowel chart "Irregular shape" does not explain why it would be considered "good", while it is one of maybe more possible reasons for being considered chaotic. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 07:39, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

== XKCD Alignment Chart ==

A while back, I was searching for an XKCD alignment chart, with no success, so I made one. It is not perfect, so I'm wondering what other opinions on the alignment of the characters are.

Lawful Good- Beret

Neutral Good- Ponytail

Chaotic Good- Mrs. Roberts

Lawful Neutral-Cueball

Neutral Neutral- Megan

Chaotic Neutral- White hat

Lawful Evil- Hairy

Neutral Evil- Danish

Chaotic Evil- Black Hat

--[[User:Fallencrow305|Fallencrow305]] ([[User talk:Fallencrow305|talk]]) 22:10, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

:What about Help I'm trapped in a drivers license factory Elaine Roberts? --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 15:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
::Or Hairbun? Or Science Girl? Here are my predictions: Elaine - Chaotic Good, Hairbun - Lawful Good, Science Girl - Lawful Neutral --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 16:00, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

:What? How can Beret Guy be anything other than chaotic?— {{unsigned|}}

:You did:
:{| class="wikitable"
|-
! !! Lawful !! Neutral !! Chaotic
|-
! Good !! Beret || Ponytail || Mrs. Roberts
|-
! Neutral !! Cueball || Megan || White Hat
|-
! Evil !! Hairy || Danish ||Black Hat
|}
:'''[[User:While False|While False]] ([[User talk:While False|speak]] | [[User:While False/explain xkcd museum|museum]]) 18:10, 17 October 2022 (UTC)'''

...while I see the slight logic of moving the above section away from the Main Page "Talk", it is only associated with this Explanation by having a common subject. Perhaps should have been re-asserted under a suitable bit of the Community Portal, or the (Talk of the) umbrella page for all characters? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.147|172.70.86.147]] 15:54, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

Talk:1532: New Horizons

2023-12-08T19:39:25Z

IcarusProblem:

Anyone know why the text on the comic was heavily aliased (pixelated edges), although it's since been fixed on the xkcd website? [[User:Keavon|Keavon]] ([[User talk:Keavon|talk]]) 07:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
:Probably a bad setting on the PNG compression by Randall when saving. Maybe he's trying to optimize file size (although in this case, the quality suffered). --BigMal // [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.192|108.162.238.192]] 11:53, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
:Did the quality of the comic improve over time? Might have been a reference to the images provided by new horizons becoming more clear as it approached[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.113|108.162.215.113]] 12:51, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
:There's some weirdness in the earth images, too. You can see it if you bump the contrast and brightness a bunch -- there's a rectangular box around Earth, which it sits at the right end of. There's also a slight gradient in the box that's brighter at the right side, a couple of meandering green lines in the brightest part of the gradient, a series of green X shapes at lower left, and a repeating pattern of green, blue and pure black at top left. Curious, could be intentional or simply an artifact of how Randall made the image. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.217.167|108.162.217.167]] 21:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia, "in August 2014, astronomers made high-precision measurements of Pluto's location and orbit around the Sun using the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array to help NASA's New Horizons spacecraft accurately home in on Pluto." Was Steve involved in these measurements too? (And any of the numerous ways by which it can be determined how far away NH is and which way it is travelling!)--[[User:Laverock|Laverock]] ([[User talk:Laverock|talk]]) 12:43, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

This joke appears to be aimed at the implausibility of the Horizon Mission’s concept art, which looks suspiciously like earth. The image shows deserts, mountains and oceans which appear to be “riffs off” of a satellite image of the Horn of Africa, western Asia, and the Indian Ocean.
Examples:
Artist's conception of New Horizons at Pluto. Image Credit: NASA
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/15-011a.jpg
Image usage:
http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/missions/solar-system/new-horizons-starts-first-phase-pluto-encounter/
:I think that -is- Earth, a view of the probe right after it was launched. Then again... Classic Star Trek episode "Miri" is set on a distant planet with identical continents to Earth for no reason except to get you interested quickly. It was made before "Planet of the Apes" by the way (spoiler). An unsatisfactory novel called "Preserver" revisits it and proposes there are super-powered aliens just messing with us. Actually in Star Trek there are super-powered aliens just messing with us about every third week and they usually constructed their own gonzo planet just for that purpose, so the assumption that these are new, unknown super-powered aliens is unjustified, but of course true (The Preservers), unless they are really Organians or Q but they just don't say so. And if the Planet Copiers are abroad, who's to say that Earth is the original. Outside Trek, it's also even odds that a fictional Counter-Earth planet on the other side of the sun - there have been several although it's physically impossible - has identical continents to Earth. And in "D.R. and Quinch Have Fun On Earth", our continents are alien graffiti, unfortunately leading to cleanup. Love, Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@excite.com [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.123|141.101.99.123]] 11:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

I do not know if the image is concept art for the New Horizon mission from back in 2006; or if it is a more generic space exploration art work. It is hard to imagine that it is specific to the New Horizon’s Mission.
One should ask New Horizons mission members to comment. There must be an interesting inside story. [[User:Dfh42|Dfh42]] ([[User talk:Dfh42|talk]]) 15:49, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

This earlier mission art is probably closer to what Randall would consider plausible:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_267.html [[User:Dfh42|Dfh42]] ([[User talk:Dfh42|talk]]) 16:29, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Waitasec, wouldn't the people on the ground know pretty much the exact position of this probe at all times? If nothing else they know its direction and distance from earth just by monitoring their communications with it. [[User:Odysseus654|Odysseus654]] ([[User talk:Odysseus654|talk]]) 17:45, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, that is the joke.[[User:Zeimusu|Zeimusu]] ([[User talk:Zeimusu|talk]]) 21:18, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

;Slingshot maneuver

It uses the gravity of a planet to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist Reference] I guess Steve miscalculated the maneuver. --[[User:Arturotena|Arturotena]] ([[User talk:Arturotena|talk]]) 06:41, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I believe this really requires three bodies to work. The close passage by the small object slightly alters the orbital elements of the larger body (around the largest body, in this case, the sun), while also changing the orbit of the small body, both direction and speed.--DrMath 06:44, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

;References

# Related tweet: [https://twitter.com/NASANewHorizons/status/603652798622920704 As @NASANewHorizons gets closer, our view of #Pluto gets better and better!].
# Related link: [http://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-s-new-horizons-sees-more-detail-as-it-draws-closer-to-pluto NASA’s New Horizons Sees More Detail as It Draws Closer to Pluto].
# [http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/team/ NASA Dawn Team]
--[[User:Arturotena|Arturotena]] ([[User talk:Arturotena|talk]]) 06:34, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

;Distance?

If Pluto is 39.26 AU from the Sun, how can New Horizons be 0.34 AU from Pluto and 32.55 AU from the Sun? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.64.35|141.101.64.35]] 20:54, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
:I reinserted the sentence semi-major axis, and I added a Wikipedia link: {{w|semi-major axis}}. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.144|108.162.238.144]] 21:47, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Why is the distance even in the explanation ? -- I move to strike and delete [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 15:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

;No rotation and an imminent impact?

Most likely it's just a concession to making the cartoon easier to draw, but I'd note that between the third and fifth frames, Earth appears not to rotate noticeably. That implies either extreme speed, or less likely, slow enough speed that Earth is conveniently managing one or more complete rotations between frames. Since the conversation is implied to continue throughout, we can safely presume the former. That suggests an imminent collision somewhere on (or near) the southern coast of Yemen. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.217.167|108.162.217.167]] 21:21, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

;Steve?

So is Steve a character now? What about a dwarf character? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:22, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
: I would agree that Steve should be considered a character. Besides this comic, we have Resonance, Los Alamos, Adam and Eve, Women on 20s, and Viral Vector Immunity. In all these comics besides Adam and Eve and Viral Vector Immunity, he seems to be strongly disliked by his colleagues, which suggests that Steve is not simply being used as a placeholder name but rather represents an actual character.

: There must be other people named "Steve" ! [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 06:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

:: No, Steve was an {{w|only child}} . . . . [[User:Spongebog|BingoBash]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 06:45, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Btw, Steve was also mentioned in comic 228. [[User:TronX7|TronX7]] ([[User talk:TronX7|talk]]) 06:59, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I didn't even see this as a representation of Earth. As I looked at each image, I thought I was seeing an image of Goofy (rather than Pluto) as seen through a glass orb. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.165|108.162.237.165]] 20:26, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I've fixed the three opaque links. I'll remove the incomplete tag in the next few days, unless anybody objects. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 14:10, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

108.162.215.26 (why are all the anonymous contributors on this page Californian? You're the other side of the country, you don't need to worry about NASA missions exploding!) added a link about the worst-case scenario in the event of a launch disaster, but just copied it from Wikipedia without checking - it was broken, so I searched for the source and fixed it. In doing so, I had a look at what the report says, and I'm not convinced the text from Wikipedia (sourced originally from "The Cosmic Compendium", ISBN 978-1329022027) is correct. The report indicates on page 4-30 that the scenario mentioned would result in "0.4 mean health effects", whereas a less likely scenario mentioned directly below that would result in "102 mean health effects", about 250 times worse. Still, it's from a cited, published source, and if anybody's wrong, it's Rupert W Anderson. [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 15:32, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Cosmogoblin, the entirety of the text from "The Cosmic Compendium" by Rupert W Anderson is taken word for word straight from Wikipedia. So you didn't really chase your source far enough, I don't think. "Rupert" goes so far as to actually cite every single one of his sources as Wikipedia along with relevant licenses (public domain or creative commons) so I'm guessing that book is scamming people who don't realize what they're buying. {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.66}}

From one IP to another: [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1532:_New_Horizons&curid=16349&diff=221594&oldid=200453 this was probably ''not'' a typo] - 'pane', as in '{{w|Windowpane|window pane}}', was valid. As 'panel' is, so no skin off my nose, and I (probably?) didn't write the original. But it's not a necessary edit so I'm hoping no-one goes off to do a mass-replacemenf. (And this comment is the best/only way to possibly get the attention of the unnamed editor concerned, or anyone else lurking on Recent Changes or otherwise randomly landing here.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.12|172.70.86.12]] 13:36, 30 November 2021 (UTC)