explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3141: Mantle Model

2025-10-06T14:19:35Z

Kapten-N:

;xkcd outage discussion
The wiki lives! 🥹 [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:04, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
FINALLY, WE’RE BACK《プロキシ》(XKCD中毒者) 13:12, 14 September 2025 (UTC)
:So it wasn't just my computer that wouldn't show explain xkcd? [[User:BobcatInABox|BobcatInABox]] ([[User talk:BobcatInABox|talk]]) 21:35, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
::Also: what went wrong and how did they fix it? [[User:BobcatInABox|BobcatInABox]] ([[User talk:BobcatInABox|talk]]) 21:35, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
:::And: do we have a plan in case it happens again? [[User:BobcatInABox|BobcatInABox]] ([[User talk:BobcatInABox|talk]]) 21:35, 12 September 2025 (UTC)
::::It was clearly a server-side issue. (Well, more server-side than Cloudflare, which still covers a lot of ground.( There are a number of different things that could have been wrong, from the server rack-space no longer being paid for (a potentially more permanent death than the domain not being paid for - which we know has been, anyway) to someone having been messing about with the site and caused fatally excessive parsing errors (there's no sign of that, in the page-edit history that we see, although there's always a potential for the person who got the server working 'sensibly' again to have purged the evidence along with the problem).
::::Could also have just been a temporary power-outage/blown-fuse in the apartment of the person who currently lets the server hum away in the background (if that's the server's physical location, which I doubt) ''or'' that person was moving it from one residence to another and so obviously had to unplug it, transport it and plug it back in again to power and network connection (again, from what I know, I doubt that... but it's not an impossible scenario).
::::Unless we get to hear from whoever fixed the problem, we can just keep on guessing.
::::Assuming that any actual person ''did'' fix the problem rather than (for yet another theory...) it being a connectivity issue further along the chain that just happened to catch our server in that, and was just sorted out as a more general restorating of service.
::::I had several 'likely' ideas during the downtime... Well, ''obvious'' they couldn't all be actually likely, as they were mutually exclusive to each other, but a larger share of the divided percentages than some of the more out-there ones... but very little proof of any of them, now we're up and running again. Not ruled out, but without the basic fingerprints that I'd have expected to support their realities. And some of my imagined solutions to the outage were situations where I would not actually have expected the site to return at all, too, and these have obviously been defied/subverted given that we're now talking here about this.
::::The good news (with reservations, at least) is that, the way we've been returned to 'normality', this raises the chances of this issue not being a recurring one. With a side-line chance of ''if'' whatever-it-was recurs, it'll be solved far quicker next time. Whoever/whatever we have to thank for it.
::::The bad news is that I don't think anyone 'active' has anything to do with it (please do let us know, if you did!). Either no direct hands-on fix at all, as described, or someone who ''really'' doesn't want to bother talking to us users and only steps/stepped in for a bit of quiet background fixing that nobody'll properly appreciate. (My kind of person, that, actually. I rather like it when I fix issues so that nobody besides my more immediate colleagues knows they've been fixed... although ideally I'd be doing so before anyone even knew they ''needed'' fixing. And this wasn't my work, of course. With so little access, or even familiarity with the basic setup, you'd have to look elsewhere for any mysterious house-elf who sorted this one out.)
::::TL;DR; - I don't know how to answer your question. I get the idea that nobody will answer your question as long as [[1305: Undocumented Feature|anyone who knows doesn't want to]]. I don't eventhink there's any possible plan that we can devise to deal with it. Even with an 'off-wiki' forum to talk amongst ourselves about things, the next time this happens again. Even if we could [[1810: Chat Systems|agree on where to go]], it'd just end up being a legacy chatroom (like the Euphoria one) once the inevitable day comes when something means that this site goes dark and never lights up again. ''C'est la vie'', etc... [[Special:Contributions/92.17.62.87|92.17.62.87]] 00:28, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
::::: TLDR indeed. >"''the apartment of the person who currently lets the server hum away in the background (if that's the server's physical location, which I doubt)''" Elsewhere this year we learned of a forum which actually sat in the admin's garage. He had a health issue, weeks in hospital then months recovering at a relative's house. Forum went down. His #2 said he got some better and the forum came to life, but went down again. Life is like that. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 02:48, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
:I had noticed this issue too. I was actually drafting up an email to [[User:Davidy22]] when I came back on here to get a screenshot and Cloudflare started working again! I had suspected that we were getting DDoSed, since Explain XKCD had some issues with that before and the server was clearly down across multiple devices and networks. Recent Changes also shows a 36+ hour gap between editing, confirming that the server was down across the board. I suggest that we coordinate some other form of communication so that we can share messages with each other and still have points of contact if this goes down. Jeff has proven himself to be flaky and unreliable, and I'm now treating everyday on here like it's my last. Check [[explain xkcd: Community portal/Proposals#Explain XKCD Discord.2FSocial Media Server.3F|the proposals board]] for more info. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 06:02, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
::This seems to be a recurring feature of many sites at the moment, whether behind Cloudflare or not. My suspicion is that scraping for AI is out of control, acting as a particularly stupid (vibe-coded) and well-funded DDoS. --[[Special:Contributions/81.96.108.67|81.96.108.67]] 06:58, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
:Cloudflare was working on my error page. It looked like it was just the host server with a problem《プロキシ》(XKCD中毒者) 13:12, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

;Comic discussion

La plume de la Terre est sous le bureau de mon oncle. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 21:33, 12 September 2025 (UTC)

I'm truly shocked that this comic (#3141) didn't have anything (obvious) to do with pi. [[Special:Contributions/2603:3003:BCC:6200:FC4E:5757:BC86:E656|2603:3003:BCC:6200:FC4E:5757:BC86:E656]] 02:03, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
: Off by 0.001 error. Or maybe Randall's sworn off [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2023/03/14/amoebas-lorica-14-march-icymi/ pi/pee jokes]. Perhaps we'll see when comic 3142 is released to the wild. [[Special:Contributions/2605:59C8:160:DB08:925:A1C6:D2C8:428B|2605:59C8:160:DB08:925:A1C6:D2C8:428B]] 11:51, 13 September 2025 (UTC)
::Only off by 0.001 if we're aware of the additional digits. I choose ignorance. [[Special:Contributions/2603:3003:BCC:6200:98AA:C11E:AA31:F089|2603:3003:BCC:6200:98AA:C11E:AA31:F089]] 15:56, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

I assume those that manage this great resource for those of us that REALLY NEED xckd explained know comic 3139 got missed in the kerfuffle... [[Special:Contributions/209.240.124.28|209.240.124.28]] 02:09, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

Using the {{Citation needed}} tag '''FOUR''' times in a single explanation is not funny. {{Citation needed}} [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 01:13, 14 September 2025 (UTC)
: Counterpoint: Yes it is. [[User:Theclapp|Theclapp]] ([[User talk:Theclapp|talk]]) 19:25, 15 September 2025 (UTC)
:: Synthesis: It could be, but wasn't here. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:30, 16 September 2025 (UTC)
::: 😆 [[User:Theclapp|Theclapp]] ([[User talk:Theclapp|talk]]) 13:00, 22 September 2025 (UTC)

My interpretation of the comic was that it was more of a satire on geology and how it interprets mantle plumes rather than just some random absurd thing. After all, looking at the Wikipedia page for mantle plumes, it lists like 10 totally random things that geologists sometimes attribute to mantle plumes. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 02:54, 14 September 2025 (UTC)
: There is too much truth in this cartoon, see [https://www.mantleplumes.org] to get an overview over the problems of the competing plume hypotheses. In short, yes geologists made up so many different plume models that this term has become either all-encompassing or meaningless. [[Special:Contributions/87.180.165.87|87.180.165.87]] 07:38, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

I like that the title text seems to also suggest that Mantle should properly be pronounced Mega-antle [[Special:Contributions/2001:1C05:71D:AB00:49C6:27F5:15E6:49C4|2001:1C05:71D:AB00:49C6:27F5:15E6:49C4]] 09:53, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

To my knowledge, D. B. isn't an "alias" of the plane hijacker but more of a cultural nickname. The hijacker named himself "Dan Cooper" (an European comic about a pilot. Relevancy never proved or disproved by the FBI according to Wikipedia) while D. B. Cooper was a random person misnamed by the media? {{unsigned ip|91.181.199.112|12:12, 15 September 2025 (UTC)}}
::Yep, D.B. Cooper is a nickname given by a reporter that stuck, after the composite drawing was released. But back to the comic, this case could have been made much harder in 1980 due to a mantle plume. LOTS of stuff got buried under ash in the Mt. St. Helens eruption in May of 1980.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 15:47, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

Forgive me if I'm off base here, but isn't this one a joke about Dark Matter? 12:54, 15 September 2025 (UTC)
It seems like a Dark Matter joke to me too [[Special:Contributions/136.62.202.91|136.62.202.91]] 18:18, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

He did this whole comic just so he could do the "antle plumes" pun in the title text, didn't he? [[User:Theclapp|Theclapp]] ([[User talk:Theclapp|talk]]) 19:25, 15 September 2025 (UTC)

I am a bit surprised of the passive/agressive tone of this explanation. Is it simply me not being good enough in english ? {{unsigned ip|66.159.217.128|14:49, 16 September 2025}}

It makes no sense to put [citation needed] on something being unconfirmed. Either say that mantle plumes have no shadow aspect[citation needed] or just leave it as being unconfirmed without the need for citation. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 14:19, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3115: Unsolved Physics Problems

2025-07-15T07:26:10Z

Kapten-N:

I didn't notice that the linked paper on zink whiskers was from NASA at first, but it was immediately apparent that an American wrote it... The style is super American. "Oh, no! People who ''chose'' to read this paper won't get it unless I write really big and '''EMPHASISE''' words." It's a very "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter" style of naming margarine, so to say. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:23, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3115: Unsolved Physics Problems

2025-07-15T07:23:37Z

Kapten-N: Zink whiskers awareness PDF is super duper American in style.

I didn't notice that the linked paper on zink whiskers was from NASA at first, but it was immediately apparent that an American wrote it... The style is super American. "Oh, no! People who ''chose'' to read this paper won't get it unless I write really big and '''EMPHASISE''' words." [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:23, 15 July 2025 (UTC)

Talk:3030: Lasering Incidents

2025-01-08T08:22:53Z

Kapten-N: Added comment.

Opportunity missed: Could have said "Santa's sleigh and other aircraft....". At least the laser beam is green. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.27.100|172.68.27.100]] 22:41, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

:that would have been dumb and late [[Special:Contributions/172.71.135.85|172.71.135.85]] 22:52, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Why is everyone here interested only in commenting, and not being helpful? [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 23:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:Some people like to just comment, or are insecure about their explaining skills. Some people like to mainly focus on transcripts, other like to clean up grammatical mistakes, and some just enjoy to lurk and watch as the explanation slowly builds up. Don’t judge other people on something as frivolous as this. Besides, only two other people have commented and there have been 4 people who have edited the explanation and transcript, including me and you. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 00:10, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry. I was pretty annoyed, although it is cool to do the first draft. Besides, if you don't think you're good at explaining, it doesn't matter, because if the next editor thinks you did a bad job, then they'll fix it. [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 04:28, 29 December 2024 (UTC)

::Also there has been talk about why there was no x-mas comic. Given the Parker probes record, there could have been a later x-mas reference here on 3rd x-mas day... But that was not to be. First time in 20 years without a Christmas comic in the holiday. There was a comic about Advent Calendars, but that was at the very start of December. So makes sense to comment on this, and that it woul dbe dumb just because it is late is a personel view. I would have welcomed a late x-mas reference... Now I'm awaiting to see if the 1st of January will be with a New Year comic. That has failed in 2021. So it would not be a first. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Consider the Christian pastor - or musician - who, year after year, has to come up with some new wrinkle on the s.o.s., that fits within the seasonal tropes or else. Randall's well might simply have run dry, and, don't haveta, not gonna. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.223|172.68.22.223]] 18:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::In both cases I would say stop what you are doing, if you cannot make a funny comic including Christmas or make a speech for one of the important events of the year, then stop doing comic or being a priest. I personally think he decided that Parkers record was more important, and also likely that he has a hard time seeing anything to be joyful about here on Earth at the moment. Last time Trump was elected he posted several sad comics. Like [[Sad]] and [[1779: 2017|2017]] --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:08, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I think it's simpler. He wanted to mark Parker's achievement (ongoing, at that point, note that it was before we were even sure it survived...) and had an idea that just had no Christmas linking factor, so went with the important thing rather than miss it and do something Christmas-y that he could do almost ''any'' year. No reason that (however disappointed) he "cancelled Christmas" due to his mood, just found it less notable/less shoehornable. You can create downbeat Christmas satire (think like the Santa's sleigh victim to the rocket range safeguards, etc, but moreso) if your actual aim is to 'mark a depressing Christmas', but even ''that'' was defered in favour of "hey, look at Parker!" as a theme.
:::::We have a couple of comics (todays and then NYD's) that might easily 'celebrate' the tirning of the (Gregorian) year in up-beat/down-beat/odd-beat manner, or might not do any of that (would be unusual to have neither being that, but doubtful they'd both be non-topical in all respects).
:::::Anyway, still some few more days to go before the close of the festive season brooks no further 'topical for the holidays' comics (we had the Advent Calendar Advent Calendar to mark the season's start, so it's not out of the question that the Twelfth Day Of Christmas also gets directly marked (or whatever day fits with a comic publication date) as a bookend, to add to (and maybe flip) the Advent one having already side-referenced the Twelve Days one. Or not. Entirely up to him.
:::::So, yeah, probably simpler (though expanding it into words means using a lot of them). Ultimately: Randall's choice, what thrice-weekly 'face' he puts on the world. And, however full of information they can be, they can't actually all contain a full fMRI of his heart fully displayed on his sleeve. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.42|172.68.186.42]] 15:32, 30 December 2024 (UTC)

you wouldn't actually see a green glowing line; that's not how lasers work {{unsigned ip|172.68.70.67|00:33, 28 December 2024}}
:That would depend upon the conditions. It would need ultra low humidity (or entirely the wrong temperature to show it) and also a pretty dust-free environment to have ''no'' visible track of the laser, across the kind of distance where you're disrupting an aircraft (from on the ground on the sightline of a pilot) and with the laser of sufficient power to cause any mischief. And Rayleigh scattering applies to some degree even in clean+dry air, in conditions of at least reasonable darkness. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.49|162.158.74.49]] 01:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::I've seen someone at an astronomy demo use a laser pointer to point at stars, exactly because of this effect. It worked pretty well, even without high humidity or dust. -- [[User:Phyzome|Phyzome]] ([[User talk:Phyzome|talk]]) 02:04, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::Seconded. '''[[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]][[User talk:42.book.addict|Talk to me!]]''' 04:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
:::: I dunno, they never seem to catch these people who irritate soccer goalies with laser pointers... And i myself was once targeted with a laser pointer, some guy in the apartment house 200 meters away thought it funny to shine one through my living room window, and I had no idea where it was coming from... :--[[Special:Contributions/172.71.172.172|172.71.172.172]] 10:56, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
::::: Well if it is in a stadium it is hard to say who did it, if they put it away after. But near an airfield, when you are putting many lives at risk there may be a higher interest in catching these. But inttersting to know how many got arrested or fines for this kind of stupidity? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Blimp airfields are illegal in the US? [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 08:22, 8 January 2025 (UTC)

Talk:2980: Lava Lakes

2024-10-23T08:40:57Z

Kapten-N: Corrected quotation in my comment.

yoo wait this is cool first yay [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 01:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

yoo [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159|172.70.230.159]] 01:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:Bro Why'd you delete my comment [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 01:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

::the wiki is a strange place where sometimes two people edit at the same time and it causes funny things [[User:Certified_nqh|Me]]{{citation needed}} 01:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Third post! [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 01:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

we're so back [[User:Certified_nqh|Me]]{{citation needed}} 01:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not think this current discussion is actually about XKCD at all, much less this comic. Perhaps the internet itself is that sixth lava lake, with all the hot mess it contains. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.253|172.68.22.253]] 02:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: What was this "internet"? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.74|172.71.151.74]] 13:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

In fact, the Volcano Golf Course [https://volcanogc.com] is built on an active volcano, Kilauea.

: Also on Hawaii Island is the [https://www.fourseasons.com/hualalai/golf/ Hualalai Golf Course], which is one of several that have been built on the {{w|Hualalai}} volcano, which erupts less frequently than Kilauea, but is nonetheless considered active (the Kona airport is built on an 1801 lava flow). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.86|172.71.147.86]] 05:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Immediately I start wondering why there might not have been a perfectly workable airport ''beneath'' the 1801 lava flow. (Ok, so it might not have had a Starbucks, as Moby-Dick was only written in 1851, so clearly you couldn't have had that chain of coffee-shops yet.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 08:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::: It would have only been able to serve flying boats, and Pan Am discontinued flying boat service in 1946. The previous land airstrip was in downtown Kailua Kona, and the good folks of leeward Hawaii Island decided they [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_International_Airport needed a place designed to serve larger aircraft than DC-3s], and not terrify the tourists in their hotel rooms in the process. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.74|172.71.151.74]] 13:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

: Right, I should've been more clear on what I meant, which was that "no sane person would build a golf courses directly over the crater of active volcanoes" [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 03:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Check out the Volcano Golf Course on Google Earth. It's pretty damn close to the caldera. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

: FWIW, there hasn't been a lava lake in Kilauea's crater for a couple of years now. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Is the female character Megan, or [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Danish Danish]? Hair length and association with Black Hat suggest the latter. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:In my [[1401: New|headcanon]], I think Danish (btw, <code><nowiki>[[Danish]]</nowiki></code> is the simpler link form, here) would not normally be asking ''what'' [[Black Hat]] did, but instead (maybe) ''how'' he did it or probably just "Did you..?", already having this in mind. She would be traditionally be devious/sociopathic enough to have made the comment just now ''in order that'' Black Hat would do (something like) this.
:Image-wise, the figure sits somewhere between the 'reference images' of Megan's hair (right thickness, grown a bit longer here) and that of Danish (finer and more casually-longer), and there are a number of ambiguous appearances that are just a subtle change in hair away from either, so I couldn't say for sure without taking into account the dialogue/activities involved. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.49|172.70.163.49]] 09:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Someone went back and changed all "Danish"es to "Megan"s (it took several tries, and they only deleted the "Comics featuring..." Category, I had to put the correct one back in for them...). After earlier multiple edits were used to convert the original primary presumption of Megan into that of a definite presumption of Danish.
:I can imagine that someone thinking of re-Danishing the article might have another go, because of the ambiguity (as above, the character seems more Megan-like than Danish-esque, to me, by both attitude and subtleties of her form, but I'm happy with either). ''If'' one feels the need to do it, though, at least do a text-search-and-highlight (however your own browser does that), to make sure you grab all cases in one go. And vice-versa for who inevitably changes it back.
:Or compromise... Introduce her as "...a female character (either [Megan] or [Danish])...", something similar in the Transcript (no links) and otherwise ambiguate all further references to her. Then perhaps end with ''both'' "Category:Comics featuring..." Cats on one line with HTML comment indicating the either/or nature of this possibility.
:...At least until we can work out for certain who Randall intended (or that it's even A.N.Other/Jane Doe, just oh so very similar to both others). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 18:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:: I don't know and it's NOMB whether Randall visits this site. If he were to see this exchange, I wonder how hard he'd be laughing. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.94|108.162.246.94]] 19:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::: I, for one, would not mind at all if he does. (Laugh, that is. It'd be repayment for the laughs we get from his scribblings.)
::: That said, either he actually stays well away ''or'' he deliberately feigns that he does (in order not to get into unnecessary minutiæ), and I don't think we'll get any direct feedback on this. <s>[[User:@theRealRandallMunroe|@theRealRandallMunroe]] ([[User talk:@theRealRandallMunroe|talk]]) OopsWhatAGiveaway...</s> [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.83|141.101.98.83]] 20:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

There ia not need to say "right now", this is superfluous language & a verbal tic.{{unsigned ip|172.70.162.163}}
:It adds context that this is not a fixed situation - that other volcanoes have contained and will contain lava lakes, while it's only a contingent state of the current five.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.34|172.70.90.34]] 08:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Fifteenth comment![[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.174|141.101.98.174]] 08:10, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Last comment. And there's absolutely no way that I can be proven wrong, in this whole silly game of oneupmanship! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 08:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

If you fund my Kickstarter, I will add a 7th. Do not ask where, but rather take a guess :) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.190|141.101.99.190]] 09:38, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the Incomplete Transcription warning. - clevor [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.218|172.71.166.218]] 13:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I assumed the lava lake would be used like a sand trap, so the golfer would want to hit the ball, rather than collect it. As such, the ball would likely be coated with a material of sufficiently high combustion temperature to be able to survive (at least for a while) on the surface of the lava. The golfer would then require shoes that allow for walking on the lake, but I believe such exist.
My question is, how difficult would it be to hit the golf ball off of the surface of the "lake"? There would be the added challenge of a "divot" composed of some of the lava following the ball, but at least you shouldn't need to worry about "repairing" the damage? [[User:Galeindfal|Galeindfal]] ([[User talk:Galeindfal|talk]]) 15:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: My gut feeling (awaiting the results of further testing) is that lava adhered to your ball would impede your play. Unfortunately, current USGA rules would only allow you to clean away just enough to be able to identify your ball (e.g. if your ball was entirely encased in rock, you would be allowed to chip away at the rock until you can see the ball at which point you would have to stop chipping. This means that, tactically speaking, you would want to chip away at the outside, and at the areas where you don't think the ball actually is, first to attempt to remove as much rock as possible before the ball can be seen.) You would not be allowed a full cleaning until you reached the green.
: One slight advantage would be that an encased rock ball would result in a lot more embedded pitches (where a ball lands with enough force to create its own divot) which would permit you to move your ball a club-length away to escape the divot. It is probable that this advantage would not be enough to offset the disadvantage of having to hit a ball encased in lava rock.
: The introduction of lava hazards would likely require a new section in the rulebook to cover the above issues as well as the use of rock tumblers as enhanced cleaning machines, the introduction of new club types designed to survive the rigours of lava play, permissible footwear and enhanced caddy insurance policies. [[User:Tommyds|Tommyds]] ([[User talk:Tommyds|talk]]) 08:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This article contains a cool photo of golfers with a huge ash cloud erupting behind them: [https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/articles/lava-golf-plenty-of-u-s-courses-live-in-the-shadows-of-nearby-volcanoes] It's probably a safe distance, really, but the photo makes it look as if it was right behind them. Scary! The article doesn't feature any lava lake, though. [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 17:47, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: Two miles (3.2 klicks) from the golf course to Halemaumau, the main vent of the Kilauea summit caldera. (pats and caresses ground) Good volcano. Nice volcano. The eruption cloud shown resulted from the draining of the lava lake that had been in Halemaumau for a decade or so, before an earthquake opened a hole in the magma chamber. The lava flowed underground down the mountain and resurfaced in the Leilani Estates housing subdivision, destroying much of it. This was 2018 (as shown in the picture caption). We were living on the Big Island at the time (in Kailua Kona, safely on the other side of Mauna Loa from the eruption). Fun times! Sorta. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.211|172.68.22.211]] 18:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Thanks for the info. This is fascinating! Heh, and apparently it ''is'' a picture of golf players at a lava lake in a way, then. I can also tell living on certain islands is anything but boring. :) [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 21:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
"This could be an extension to modern, AI-based technologies, of the blackhat cracker concept of using novel innovation for harm, and hence a strong commentary on the danger and power present in the modern algorithmic research environment. " I don't think this has anything to do with AI. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.80.213|172.70.80.213]] 20:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I feel like it shouldn't say "actual citation needed" after "sane people do not build golf courses directly over active volcanoes". This site uses "citation needed" for comedic effect, but "actual citation needed" for when statements really do need a citation. But isn't requiring citation on a negative like that comparable to asking someone to prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Earth? Besides, didn't someone in the comments provide an example of a golf course that is in fact built over a volcano? Doesn't that mean that the statement is proven false and therefore should be removed? (Considering the truthfulness of the statement was important enough to require an actual citation). Unless, of course, the sanity of the people who built it is brought into question. But even if citation for their insanity is found, that's still only one golf course. To fulfil the requirement for a citation in this case you'd need an exhaustive list of all golf courses, complete with data on whether or not they are built atop volcanoes and whether or not their founder is/was insane. And that still leaves the question about whether they knew it was a volcano when they built the golf courses and whether it still counts if they didn't know. '''TL;DR:''' It's my opinion that the statement "sane people do not build golf courses directly over active volcanoes" should either be removed for (likely) being false or "actual" should be dropped from the citation request. I lean towards the latter, because a) the truthfulness of the statement isn't important enough, b) it's widely considered common sense, and c) therefore "citation needed" adds comedic effect. This would fit with how similar statements are handled elsewhere on explain xkcd. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 08:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2980: Lava Lakes

2024-10-23T08:40:00Z

Kapten-N: New comment questioning request for actual citation on comedic statement.

yoo wait this is cool first yay [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 01:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

yoo [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.159|172.70.230.159]] 01:24, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

:Bro Why'd you delete my comment [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 01:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

::the wiki is a strange place where sometimes two people edit at the same time and it causes funny things [[User:Certified_nqh|Me]]{{citation needed}} 01:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Third post! [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 01:29, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

we're so back [[User:Certified_nqh|Me]]{{citation needed}} 01:52, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I do not think this current discussion is actually about XKCD at all, much less this comic. Perhaps the internet itself is that sixth lava lake, with all the hot mess it contains. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.253|172.68.22.253]] 02:54, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: What was this "internet"? [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.74|172.71.151.74]] 13:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

In fact, the Volcano Golf Course [https://volcanogc.com] is built on an active volcano, Kilauea.

: Also on Hawaii Island is the [https://www.fourseasons.com/hualalai/golf/ Hualalai Golf Course], which is one of several that have been built on the {{w|Hualalai}} volcano, which erupts less frequently than Kilauea, but is nonetheless considered active (the Kona airport is built on an 1801 lava flow). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.86|172.71.147.86]] 05:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Immediately I start wondering why there might not have been a perfectly workable airport ''beneath'' the 1801 lava flow. (Ok, so it might not have had a Starbucks, as Moby-Dick was only written in 1851, so clearly you couldn't have had that chain of coffee-shops yet.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 08:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::: It would have only been able to serve flying boats, and Pan Am discontinued flying boat service in 1946. The previous land airstrip was in downtown Kailua Kona, and the good folks of leeward Hawaii Island decided they [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kona_International_Airport needed a place designed to serve larger aircraft than DC-3s], and not terrify the tourists in their hotel rooms in the process. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.74|172.71.151.74]] 13:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

: Right, I should've been more clear on what I meant, which was that "no sane person would build a golf courses directly over the crater of active volcanoes" [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 03:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:: Check out the Volcano Golf Course on Google Earth. It's pretty damn close to the caldera. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

: FWIW, there hasn't been a lava lake in Kilauea's crater for a couple of years now. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Is the female character Megan, or [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Danish Danish]? Hair length and association with Black Hat suggest the latter. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.147.191|172.71.147.191]] 05:12, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:In my [[1401: New|headcanon]], I think Danish (btw, <code><nowiki>[[Danish]]</nowiki></code> is the simpler link form, here) would not normally be asking ''what'' [[Black Hat]] did, but instead (maybe) ''how'' he did it or probably just "Did you..?", already having this in mind. She would be traditionally be devious/sociopathic enough to have made the comment just now ''in order that'' Black Hat would do (something like) this.
:Image-wise, the figure sits somewhere between the 'reference images' of Megan's hair (right thickness, grown a bit longer here) and that of Danish (finer and more casually-longer), and there are a number of ambiguous appearances that are just a subtle change in hair away from either, so I couldn't say for sure without taking into account the dialogue/activities involved. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.49|172.70.163.49]] 09:18, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Someone went back and changed all "Danish"es to "Megan"s (it took several tries, and they only deleted the "Comics featuring..." Category, I had to put the correct one back in for them...). After earlier multiple edits were used to convert the original primary presumption of Megan into that of a definite presumption of Danish.
:I can imagine that someone thinking of re-Danishing the article might have another go, because of the ambiguity (as above, the character seems more Megan-like than Danish-esque, to me, by both attitude and subtleties of her form, but I'm happy with either). ''If'' one feels the need to do it, though, at least do a text-search-and-highlight (however your own browser does that), to make sure you grab all cases in one go. And vice-versa for who inevitably changes it back.
:Or compromise... Introduce her as "...a female character (either [Megan] or [Danish])...", something similar in the Transcript (no links) and otherwise ambiguate all further references to her. Then perhaps end with ''both'' "Category:Comics featuring..." Cats on one line with HTML comment indicating the either/or nature of this possibility.
:...At least until we can work out for certain who Randall intended (or that it's even A.N.Other/Jane Doe, just oh so very similar to both others). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 18:23, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
:: I don't know and it's NOMB whether Randall visits this site. If he were to see this exchange, I wonder how hard he'd be laughing. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.94|108.162.246.94]] 19:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
::: I, for one, would not mind at all if he does. (Laugh, that is. It'd be repayment for the laughs we get from his scribblings.)
::: That said, either he actually stays well away ''or'' he deliberately feigns that he does (in order not to get into unnecessary minutiæ), and I don't think we'll get any direct feedback on this. <s>[[User:@theRealRandallMunroe|@theRealRandallMunroe]] ([[User talk:@theRealRandallMunroe|talk]]) OopsWhatAGiveaway...</s> [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.83|141.101.98.83]] 20:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

There ia not need to say "right now", this is superfluous language & a verbal tic.{{unsigned ip|172.70.162.163}}
:It adds context that this is not a fixed situation - that other volcanoes have contained and will contain lava lakes, while it's only a contingent state of the current five.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.34|172.70.90.34]] 08:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Fifteenth comment![[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.174|141.101.98.174]] 08:10, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
:Last comment. And there's absolutely no way that I can be proven wrong, in this whole silly game of oneupmanship! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.208|172.70.162.208]] 08:59, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

If you fund my Kickstarter, I will add a 7th. Do not ask where, but rather take a guess :) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.190|141.101.99.190]] 09:38, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed the Incomplete Transcription warning. - clevor [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.218|172.71.166.218]] 13:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

I assumed the lava lake would be used like a sand trap, so the golfer would want to hit the ball, rather than collect it. As such, the ball would likely be coated with a material of sufficiently high combustion temperature to be able to survive (at least for a while) on the surface of the lava. The golfer would then require shoes that allow for walking on the lake, but I believe such exist.
My question is, how difficult would it be to hit the golf ball off of the surface of the "lake"? There would be the added challenge of a "divot" composed of some of the lava following the ball, but at least you shouldn't need to worry about "repairing" the damage? [[User:Galeindfal|Galeindfal]] ([[User talk:Galeindfal|talk]]) 15:55, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: My gut feeling (awaiting the results of further testing) is that lava adhered to your ball would impede your play. Unfortunately, current USGA rules would only allow you to clean away just enough to be able to identify your ball (e.g. if your ball was entirely encased in rock, you would be allowed to chip away at the rock until you can see the ball at which point you would have to stop chipping. This means that, tactically speaking, you would want to chip away at the outside, and at the areas where you don't think the ball actually is, first to attempt to remove as much rock as possible before the ball can be seen.) You would not be allowed a full cleaning until you reached the green.
: One slight advantage would be that an encased rock ball would result in a lot more embedded pitches (where a ball lands with enough force to create its own divot) which would permit you to move your ball a club-length away to escape the divot. It is probable that this advantage would not be enough to offset the disadvantage of having to hit a ball encased in lava rock.
: The introduction of lava hazards would likely require a new section in the rulebook to cover the above issues as well as the use of rock tumblers as enhanced cleaning machines, the introduction of new club types designed to survive the rigours of lava play, permissible footwear and enhanced caddy insurance policies. [[User:Tommyds|Tommyds]] ([[User talk:Tommyds|talk]]) 08:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This article contains a cool photo of golfers with a huge ash cloud erupting behind them: [https://www.golfpass.com/travel-advisor/articles/lava-golf-plenty-of-u-s-courses-live-in-the-shadows-of-nearby-volcanoes] It's probably a safe distance, really, but the photo makes it look as if it was right behind them. Scary! The article doesn't feature any lava lake, though. [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 17:47, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
: Two miles (3.2 klicks) from the golf course to Halemaumau, the main vent of the Kilauea summit caldera. (pats and caresses ground) Good volcano. Nice volcano. The eruption cloud shown resulted from the draining of the lava lake that had been in Halemaumau for a decade or so, before an earthquake opened a hole in the magma chamber. The lava flowed underground down the mountain and resurfaced in the Leilani Estates housing subdivision, destroying much of it. This was 2018 (as shown in the picture caption). We were living on the Big Island at the time (in Kailua Kona, safely on the other side of Mauna Loa from the eruption). Fun times! Sorta. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.211|172.68.22.211]] 18:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
::I see. Thanks for the info. This is fascinating! Heh, and apparently it ''is'' a picture of golf players at a lava lake in a way, then. I can also tell living on certain islands is anything but boring. :) [[User:PaulEberhardt|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt|talk]]) 21:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
"This could be an extension to modern, AI-based technologies, of the blackhat cracker concept of using novel innovation for harm, and hence a strong commentary on the danger and power present in the modern algorithmic research environment. " I don't think this has anything to do with AI. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.80.213|172.70.80.213]] 20:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I feel like it shouldn't say "actual citation needed" after "sane people don't build golf courses on volcanoes". This site uses "citation needed" for comedic effect, but "actual citation needed" for when statements really do need a citation. But isn't requiring citation on a negative like that comparable to asking someone to prove that there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun somewhere between Jupiter and Earth? Besides, didn't someone in the comments provide an example of a golf course that is in fact built over a volcano? Doesn't that mean that the statement is proven false and therefore should be removed? (Considering the truthfulness of the statement was important enough to require an actual citation). Unless, of course, the sanity of the people who built it is brought into question. But even if citation for their insanity is found, that's still only one golf course. To fulfil the requirement for a citation in this case you'd need an exhaustive list of all golf courses, complete with data on whether or not they are built atop volcanoes and whether or not their founder is/was insane. And that still leaves the question about whether they knew it was a volcano when they built the golf courses and whether it still counts if they didn't know. '''TL;DR:''' It's my opinion that the statement "sane people don't build golf courses on volcanoes" should either be removed for (likely) being false or "actual" should be dropped from the citation request. I lean towards the latter, because a) the truthfulness of the statement isn't important enough, b) it's widely considered common sense, and c) therefore "citation needed" adds comedic effect. This would fit with how similar statements are handled elsewhere on explain xkcd. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 08:40, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2988: Maslow's Pyramid

2024-10-22T14:20:46Z

Kapten-N: New comment.

Oh wow, first post! [[User:RadiantRainwing|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing|talk]]) 23:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
: Congratulations on learning how to post! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.228|172.68.245.228]] 03:40, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1258:_First| 1258: First]. Heh. [[User:Psychoticpotato|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 16:00, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The 20% figure is incorrect. The lower levels of the pyramid have more volume than the upper levels. By my arithmetic, the breakdown is (rounded) 1%, 6%, 15%, 30%, and 49%, so the "safety" level provides 30% of his needs. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 00:27, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:Plus the bottom layer ought to get partial credit for supplying basic shelter. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 00:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:: I question this Cueball's ability to get anything okay enough. {{unsigned|172.70.38.122|03:32, 21 September 2024}}
::Seems like he's judging each layer on a pass-fail basis, no partial credit. So the bottom layer fails because it only provides shelter, but no food or water. Like a crypt, which is what the Egyptian pyramids were for. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 18:19, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Oh crud. What did I do that I think totally messed up the attributions? 172.68.245.228 [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.228|172.68.245.228]] 03:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:I think you probably put some ~s in the wrong places? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.41.181|162.158.41.181]] 19:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

But *how* did he build it? Was there some sort of internal ramp? Were extraterrestrials involved? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.48|172.70.163.48]] 06:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
: Couldn't care less. Cueball, I AM impressed. If your friends aren't, you need new friends. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.115|172.71.160.115]] 07:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I assumed Cueball was trying to meet the needs, inside the pyramid. :-) Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.231|172.70.160.231]] 10:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

And a pyramid is a very safe building, except for emergency exits. ;-) (Also traps, but no one asked you in.) But it's not going to fall over. Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.227|172.69.194.227]] 10:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:If you’re going to sign with your full name and email address, why not just set up an account and have that as your automatic signature? [[User:42.book.addict|42.book.addict]] ([[User talk:42.book.addict|talk]]) 01:30, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
:It's harder to climb over an ''inverted'' pyramid, looking for weak-points. But then it has a weak-point insofar as having to be balanced upon its point, and one of those definitely ''might'' fall over... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.33.237|162.158.33.237]] 17:29, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

No food or water? He was doing it wrong: [https://mused.com/stories/145/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-great-pyramid-and-giza/ Above ground there was a separate chamber for holding food and drink for use by the deceased person in the afterlife.] [[Special:Contributions/172.71.170.166|172.71.170.166]] 00:50, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
: Plus I'm thinking that if he's going to the effort of building a pyramid, it wouldn't have taken too much extra to include a ground-source heat exchanger to keep the place comfortable - that just seems like poor design on his part.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.136|172.70.90.136]] 13:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I feel like we're missing a play on words here. Since Cueball's "safety assertions" are that the pyramid is highly defensible, the authorities are ''literally'' contesting those assertions by trying to invade it. If they can't get in, then his assertions hold up! --- However, I would argue that defensibility falls under security and not safety. Thus I'm contesting his assertions on the grounds that they are mis-categorised. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 14:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2995: University Commas

2024-10-22T09:13:35Z

Kapten-N: Corrected my own comment.

As Wikipedia notes, the {{w|Harvard comma}} is actually a thing, and synonymous with the Oxford comma. It's hard to understand whether Randall was just ignoring that.
It's interesting to also look at how the various commas are meaningful. For instance, the Yale comma here appears to be just plain ungrammatical, you'd never put a comma between a verb and a its direct object; similarly the Cambridge comma and Princeton commas are ungrammatical, you'd never put one after the word "and." The Stanford comma is unambiguously normal and it's not clear how you could have such a list without it (absent replacement with a [Stanford?] semicolon). The Columbia comma is being used to separate "mac and cheese" into "mac, and[,] cheese" which changes the semantic meaning (arguably into something meaningless, but maybe we're listing Apple Computers or even Macintosh apple fruit abbreviated). The MIT comma is a cute programming joke for multiline lists. Maybe there are hidden trick meanings (like MIT) I'm missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:On their own, few of them are intrinsically bad, in the right context.
:*"Please, buy" - valid comma. Prefixed subclause (general plea).
:*"Please buy, apples" - valid comma (more specific plea).
:*"apples, mac" - valid comma (list-type).
:*"mac, and" - valid comma (potentially a conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"mac and, cheese" - valid comma (potentially a post-conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"and cheese, milk" - valid comma (follow-up sub-clause).
:*"cheese, milk, and" - Oxford comma. (Thus invalid, by default. IMO.)
:*"milk and, bread." - ...would be valid, as above, except for the sentence ending.
:*"and bread,." - Ok. Definitely the worst. (Except for the Oxford Comma, which is still worserer!)
:Obviously, combinations of them (or counterpart lack of them, in some cases) can clash badly. Some can work well together, but using ()s, ;s or feetnete* is often better than diving in and out of sub-clauses in the midst of a comma-bound list and potentially making it ambiguous whether you're diving in/out of a clarifying aside or replacing a non-terminating conjunction or perhaps one of the other usages to which a comma might apply.
:* Or just generally rewriting a multi-clausal sentence completely! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 23:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry, no: "and," is bad grammar, except when illustrating a dramatic (but grammatically wrong) verbal pause; ", and" is fine for noting a pause used to divide a list, but it's best to use semicolons in a divided list. IE: "milk; bread; mac and cheese; blood, sweat, and tears". (Again, "blood, sweat and tears", would be atypical cadence if spoken aloud; therefore, the comma.) I don't care what style guides say, only what works well.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What's grammatically wrong about something like "I drink beer and, on occasion, cider"?
::::Thank you for the "and, on occasion, beer and cider" example. Looking only at the given sentence about a shopping list, I wondered if the subordinate clause suggestion was edit-mangle or a very strange dialect difference. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 02:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::It wasn't "and, on occasion, beer and cider" given as an example. It was "[I drink] beer and, on occasion, cider". Depending upon what comes before the "and,", it ''might'' be the same sort of thing, but "beer and, on occasion, cider" probably is intended to mean "... beer (mostly) and cider (occasionally)". Your vesion might be somethng like "I drink beer, cider and, on occasion, beer and cider" => "I drink beer (frequently), cider (frequently) and a beer-and-cider-mix (occasionally)".
:::::(Noting that I've never tried mixing beer and cider, although I have done it with wine and cider. Long story. Though mostly it was mixed in my stomach, not pre-mixed. Probably made me the absolute drunkest I ever have been, but the effects took more time to take effect than those who were deliberately plying me with the drink(s) counted on, so their 'plan' sort of failed... I was younger and foolisher, but so were they! These days, I prefer my beer (typically a bitter, maybe a stout, generally not lagers/etc) unblended in any way. The same with my whisky (single malt, and in preference to whiskey). And wine's fine, but with a meal. Don't really go for ciders these days. If I want something appley, I prefer fruit juice, and if I want something fizzy (not all ciders are fizzy, but most of the major ones are) then give me a Pepsi Max (or something similar - I love the taste of aspartame in the morning!). But I rarely mix anything more than cordial/concentrate and water.)
:::::As to how people mangle/dialectise subordinate clauses, I couldn't say. I think it's grammatically odd to say "Write me!" (for "Write '''to''' me!), ''or'' to say "lit it on fire" (I'd just say that I "lit it", or "set fire to it"), so there's probably some strangeness of expectations between sublinguistic jurisdictions. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.165|172.68.205.165]] 15:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

:::Also, the cadence of "blood, sweat and tears" has nothing to do with the commas you give it. This isn't a case of marking verbal ticks, with... uh... transcribed notation. Either for official recording purposes or in the pre-scripting of speech for later performance. One is free to nuance the phrase how you want, with or without OC. The main issue about the OC is whether a list (of ''more'' than two items) should have each (non-final) element followed by a comma? Or are commas placeholders only for the "and"/"or"s that are omited? (And my opinion is that it is the latter, all else being equal. I apply that to semicolon-separated lists, insofar as I won't end with "...; penultimate item; '''and'' last item", but prefer to omit the '''and''' (or '''or'' ), casting whether it's a list of options or an accumulation by the introductory/follow-up contextualisation of that list.)
:::But, whichever standard you prefer, there will be cases where it reads wrongly to others. If you're lucky enough to spot it, then you can look to what you can do to adjust the sentence to remove ambiguity. This does not normally mean adding in any old commas where,,,,, you think a Pinter Pause is needed. (Maybe an ellipsis, in normal writing.) The fact that a grammatical comma may be where a spoken pause may crop up is not because the comma causes the pause. The verbal pause is (if not garbled out) caused by the same understanding of how clauses/etc require intoning under the circumstances.
:::But it is a rhetorical choice as to whether to intone "blood..., sweat... and tears" or "blood, sweat and... tears" or any number of other pausing strategies, as it is how you faithfully transcribe what has already been intoned. When merely listing these in text, your chosen style of grammar is the master. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.134|172.70.160.134]] 19:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

::Commas can go in a number of places in lists, and, occasionally, after the word "and". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 23:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Potentially, anything is possible... I can see how a sentence like "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and, bread being out of stock, oats" would work, but I really don't see how the commas after "and" could work ''in this sentence''. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

If each item in a list shall be followed by a comma then the MIT comma is quite proper. SDT [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.206|172.68.245.206]] 05:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The UCLA comma may refer to the 8 clap, a chant at UCLA which is begins with a string of 8 claps. {{unsigned ip|172.68.205.178|07:33, 8 October 2024}}

I thought the UCLA & Michigan commas referred to quotes within citations. This isn't uncommon in literary studies, where you quote articles quoting books. Depending on your quotation style, this can result in a long string of 3-4 "commas" (as in: short lines in punctuation marks). If you place the quote between actual commas, make that 4-5. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the tirade against the Oxford comma in the article is not relevant for understanding the comic. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" is not saying that Ayn Rand is the mother. To express that one should write "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and to God". Thus the ambiguity can be resolved. I believe one of the editors is mixing in their personal taste here. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 09:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:Tirade? Hardly. It explains when it doesn't help (and when it might).
:And I think you misread. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" indeed does not say that Ayn Rand is the mother. In fact it ''explicitly'' says that "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God'"... erm... does ''not'' say the thing that 'To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God' ''potentially'' does. (See table below.)
:The choice of how to disambiguate "my mother, who is Ayn Rand", as a concept, is another thing and has multiple options. Disambiguating in the direction of a simple list is the contention surrounding the Oxford(/Serial) Comma itself (it is, by definition, being used in the list format), given that some circumstances are most helped by it and others are most helped by its absence. If you're strongly for the OC, you'll hopefully rewrite problematic OCed formulations so that you can use it. If you're strongly against it you should change problamatic non-OCed versions so that you can better go without one. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.128|172.70.85.128]] 10:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Inspired (a bit) by the Three Laws permutation table, a set of possible ambiguations from the straight list...
{| class="wikitable"
!A !!B !!C !!"A, B and C" !!"A, B, and C"
|-
|my parents||Ayn Rand||God||"my parents (who are Ayn Rand and God)"||''list only''*
|-
|my parents||God||Ayn Rand||"my parents (who are God and Ayn Rand)"||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||my parents||God||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||God||my parents||''list only''* ||"Ayn Rand (who is God), and my parents"
|-
|God||my parents||Ayn Rand||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|God||Ayn Rand||my parents||''list only''* ||"God (who is Ayn Rand), and my parents"
|}
:-* - Assuming no other "All You Zombies" and/or divine incarnation scenarios.
:...maybe it's too early in the morning, but I'm sure I'm missing other ambiguities I've commented on before. (Without necesarily going into the asterisked territories.) Anyone want to amend this? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.105|172.68.186.105]] 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Love it! [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::There's additional potential ambiguity if you go with the singular "my mother" as opposed to the plural "my parents". "My mother, Ayn Rand, and God" (with the Oxford comma) could be listing 2 separate entities while indicating that my mother is Ayn Rand, or could be listing 3 separate entities. "My mother, Ayn Rand and God" (without the Oxford comma) could be referring to a single entity while indicating that my mother is both Ayn Rand and God, or listing 3 separate entities. (In a phrase like, "My mother, Ayn Rand and God, gave it to me," the comma after God indicates that it's one entity, but you lose that clarity with "It was given to me by my mother, Ayn Rand and God." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.66|172.68.70.66]] 14:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What if my mother, Ayn Rand, and God are actually the trinity?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.87|172.69.195.87]] 08:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::I myself, was fully expecting one of the examples given, to be: "To my God and mother, Ayn Rand". [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I realize that this comic focuses on University commas, however I feel that some mention should be made about the Walken Comma and the Shatner Comma! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.103|172.70.114.103]] 10:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:What, do you,    mean by,   that? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.106|172.69.195.106]] 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Here's the explanation: [https://www.joeydevilla.com/2015/06/26/a-visual-guide-to-the-different-comma-styles/ Walken and Shatner Commas] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.228|162.158.62.228]] 11:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

{{w|Mac and cheese}} is probably not well-known outside the US (especially not under that name). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.115|172.71.160.115]] 13:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:As usual, the Brits don't know how to name food. "Macaroni cheese" sounds like the macaroni is made of cheese. But I added an explanation and link to the Wikipedia page. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Don't be silly, that would clearly be named "cheese macaroni". Macaroni cheese is clearly cheese for macaroni, and it's simply polite to serve macaroni to have it with as well. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.114|172.71.151.114]] 14:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::: By the logic of your second interpretation, "cheese macaroni" is clearly macaroni for cheese. The lexical existence of this separate form of macaroni begs the question: what kind of macaroni goes best with macaroni cheese? The plain kind or cheese macaroni? The answer is neither! The best kind of macaroni to serve with macaroni cheese is clearly macaroni-cheese macaroni. But then what kind of cheese goes best with that? None other than (macaroni cheese)-macaroni cheese, which in turn is best served with ((macaroni cheese) macaroni)-cheese macaroni. This interleaving of macaroni and cheese never ends, meaning that no matter where you choose to stop, you will always end up with a sub-optimal pairing. So it's best to just not eat any form of cheese with any form of macaroni, to avoid disappointment. As an aside, the logic of your first interpretation implies that "macaroni cheese" is actually cheese that's made of macaroni. [[User:MelodiousThunk|MelodiousThunk]] ([[User talk:MelodiousThunk|talk]]) 12:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::As opposed to 'mac and cheese', which sounds like a particularly unappetising dish made using a waterproof coat.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.92|172.68.186.92]] 15:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Oddly, US English goes the other way with "grilled cheese", neglecting to mention that the cheese should be placed between slices of bread before grilling; in British English, it would generally be called a "cheese toastie". (Until looking it up, I was under the mistaken belief that it was a name for what we would call "cheese on toast", which also involves grilling the cheese, on the toast.) [[User:IMSoP|IMSoP]] ([[User talk:IMSoP|talk]]) 21:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::Grilled Cheese is short for Grilled Cheese Sandwich, and Cheese Toastie is short for toasted (or toast(ie/y) cheese Sandwich. In both cases the hearer is expected to know, either from context or experience, that a sandwich is being referenced (offered). It is possible that toasting has mor eassociations with bread (and therefore sandwiches) than grilling, but either toasting or grilling can be done to a variety of foods, including bread(s).[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.171|172.70.130.171]] 23:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::A "toasted cheese sandwich" may or may not get the same name as "cheese on toast" (i.e. a sort of "toasted cheese smörgåsbord", or a kind of {{w|Welsh rarebit}}-redux, rather than 'raw' cheese put onto freshly toasted toast, which is yet ''another'' option).
::::::In general, if the cheese is exposed to the grilling (and, technically, could have any (or no!) substrate rather than bread) it could be considered "grilled cheese", in a way that cheese enclosed (perhaps nipped-closed, in 'toastie maker' devices) is only actually a melted filling.
::::::But I reckon there's many interpretations of handy "heating up cheese and bread" dishes, and many of those will involve grilling and/or toasting, but not necessarily both. Or either, as "bread on cheese" in the microwave for a short blast can be nice, as can a fried cheese sandwich (and, doubtless, also ''deep-''fried has been tried, but not by me). And with much variation on what any of that might be termed.
::::::...and, if you'll excuse me, you've made me acutely aware that there is extra mature cheddar and wholemeal sliced bread in the house and a variety of means to cook (or not cook) it. I might try an open-topped cheese-on-bread heated up in the ...waffle-maker..? not sure what it is, but it's not strictly a sandwich-toaster and I've never made waffles in it... with the top propped up to not messily press into the eventually melting cheese top. With a sprinkling of herbs and spices and the bread lightly buttered(/non-dairy-spreaded, technically), it'll end up not toasted but delightfully cooked and all melty (hopefully not too much, molten cheese sticking to the roof of the mouth is rather awkward!) and probably raise my cholesterol more than is healthy. And, no, I don't really have a name for it. Adding another slice of bread on top, before 'waffle-ironing, might make it a sorted-of-toasted cheese sandwich, but "heated smorgasbord" doesn't really roll off the tongue (nor does the cheese, if I excessively melt it). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.110|172.70.85.110]] 05:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

:'Mac & cheese' is, sadly, probably more common in the UK now than the proper 'macaroni cheese'.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.47|141.101.99.47]] 08:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the added red text in the Notation column, but it needs to be explained in the Explanation column. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.8|162.158.90.8]] 00:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Could this, at least in part, be about typography, not grammar and style? The depicted commas are not all the same. [[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 10:42, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Specifically, MIT is the home of the Rust language, which prominently uses trailing commas after the last item in a list as a matter of programming style.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.211|172.70.214.211]]
* As best I can tell this isn't true? Rust was not developed at MIT, nor is it currently sponsored by MIT. As best I can tell, the only association between the two is an old copy of the book "The Rust Programming Language" hosted under MIT's domain. I would guess that the comic refers to it as the "MIT comma" simply for the reference to programming [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.97|162.158.158.97]] 16:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

ABAP uses dots as end-of-command delimiters. {{unsigned ip|162.158.202.92|06:13, 11 October 2024}}

I read the Columbia comma as adding a specification to the apples, that they should be McIntosh apples shortened as "mac". I don't see why the explanation suggests a raincoat here... [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 09:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

== ! UNRESOLVED VERSION CONFLICT ! ==
There has been a problem with different versions. I shifted a paragraph, but the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&oldid=352624 version that got saved] had 1615 characters less than before. A whole lot of rambling had been removed from the explanation, but there was no version conflict warning and no other saved revision in the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&action=history revision history]. I didn't want to take credit for the changes, though I appreciated them, so I undid my edit, then redid my shift of paragraphs, and hoped that the other editor would reconcile the versions. That didn't happen. I'm writing this note to draw attention to the "lost edit". [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 18:28, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2995: University Commas

2024-10-22T09:12:09Z

Kapten-N: Added comment.

As Wikipedia notes, the {{w|Harvard comma}} is actually a thing, and synonymous with the Oxford comma. It's hard to understand whether Randall was just ignoring that.
It's interesting to also look at how the various commas are meaningful. For instance, the Yale comma here appears to be just plain ungrammatical, you'd never put a comma between a verb and a its direct object; similarly the Cambridge comma and Princeton commas are ungrammatical, you'd never put one after the word "and." The Stanford comma is unambiguously normal and it's not clear how you could have such a list without it (absent replacement with a [Stanford?] semicolon). The Columbia comma is being used to separate "mac and cheese" into "mac, and[,] cheese" which changes the semantic meaning (arguably into something meaningless, but maybe we're listing Apple Computers or even Macintosh apple fruit abbreviated). The MIT comma is a cute programming joke for multiline lists. Maybe there are hidden trick meanings (like MIT) I'm missing. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 23:03, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:On their own, few of them are intrinsically bad, in the right context.
:*"Please, buy" - valid comma. Prefixed subclause (general plea).
:*"Please buy, apples" - valid comma (more specific plea).
:*"apples, mac" - valid comma (list-type).
:*"mac, and" - valid comma (potentially a conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"mac and, cheese" - valid comma (potentially a post-conjunctive sub-clause).
:*"and cheese, milk" - valid comma (follow-up sub-clause).
:*"cheese, milk, and" - Oxford comma. (Thus invalid, by default. IMO.)
:*"milk and, bread." - ...would be valid, as above, except for the sentence ending.
:*"and bread,." - Ok. Definitely the worst. (Except for the Oxford Comma, which is still worserer!)
:Obviously, combinations of them (or counterpart lack of them, in some cases) can clash badly. Some can work well together, but using ()s, ;s or feetnete* is often better than diving in and out of sub-clauses in the midst of a comma-bound list and potentially making it ambiguous whether you're diving in/out of a clarifying aside or replacing a non-terminating conjunction or perhaps one of the other usages to which a comma might apply.
:* Or just generally rewriting a multi-clausal sentence completely! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.22|172.70.86.22]] 23:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Sorry, no: "and," is bad grammar, except when illustrating a dramatic (but grammatically wrong) verbal pause; ", and" is fine for noting a pause used to divide a list, but it's best to use semicolons in a divided list. IE: "milk; bread; mac and cheese; blood, sweat, and tears". (Again, "blood, sweat and tears", would be atypical cadence if spoken aloud; therefore, the comma.) I don't care what style guides say, only what works well.
::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:11, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What's grammatically wrong about something like "I drink beer and, on occasion, cider"?
::::Thank you for the "and, on occasion, beer and cider" example. Looking only at the given sentence about a shopping list, I wondered if the subordinate clause suggestion was edit-mangle or a very strange dialect difference. [[User:JimJJewett|JimJJewett]] ([[User talk:JimJJewett|talk]]) 02:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::It wasn't "and, on occasion, beer and cider" given as an example. It was "[I drink] beer and, on occasion, cider". Depending upon what comes before the "and,", it ''might'' be the same sort of thing, but "beer and, on occasion, cider" probably is intended to mean "... beer (mostly) and cider (occasionally)". Your vesion might be somethng like "I drink beer, cider and, on occasion, beer and cider" => "I drink beer (frequently), cider (frequently) and a beer-and-cider-mix (occasionally)".
:::::(Noting that I've never tried mixing beer and cider, although I have done it with wine and cider. Long story. Though mostly it was mixed in my stomach, not pre-mixed. Probably made me the absolute drunkest I ever have been, but the effects took more time to take effect than those who were deliberately plying me with the drink(s) counted on, so their 'plan' sort of failed... I was younger and foolisher, but so were they! These days, I prefer my beer (typically a bitter, maybe a stout, generally not lagers/etc) unblended in any way. The same with my whisky (single malt, and in preference to whiskey). And wine's fine, but with a meal. Don't really go for ciders these days. If I want something appley, I prefer fruit juice, and if I want something fizzy (not all ciders are fizzy, but most of the major ones are) then give me a Pepsi Max (or something similar - I love the taste of aspartame in the morning!). But I rarely mix anything more than cordial/concentrate and water.)
:::::As to how people mangle/dialectise subordinate clauses, I couldn't say. I think it's grammatically odd to say "Write me!" (for "Write '''to''' me!), ''or'' to say "lit it on fire" (I'd just say that I "lit it", or "set fire to it"), so there's probably some strangeness of expectations between sublinguistic jurisdictions. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.205.165|172.68.205.165]] 15:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

:::Also, the cadence of "blood, sweat and tears" has nothing to do with the commas you give it. This isn't a case of marking verbal ticks, with... uh... transcribed notation. Either for official recording purposes or in the pre-scripting of speech for later performance. One is free to nuance the phrase how you want, with or without OC. The main issue about the OC is whether a list (of ''more'' than two items) should have each (non-final) element followed by a comma? Or are commas placeholders only for the "and"/"or"s that are omited? (And my opinion is that it is the latter, all else being equal. I apply that to semicolon-separated lists, insofar as I won't end with "...; penultimate item; '''and'' last item", but prefer to omit the '''and''' (or '''or'' ), casting whether it's a list of options or an accumulation by the introductory/follow-up contextualisation of that list.)
:::But, whichever standard you prefer, there will be cases where it reads wrongly to others. If you're lucky enough to spot it, then you can look to what you can do to adjust the sentence to remove ambiguity. This does not normally mean adding in any old commas where,,,,, you think a Pinter Pause is needed. (Maybe an ellipsis, in normal writing.) The fact that a grammatical comma may be where a spoken pause may crop up is not because the comma causes the pause. The verbal pause is (if not garbled out) caused by the same understanding of how clauses/etc require intoning under the circumstances.
:::But it is a rhetorical choice as to whether to intone "blood..., sweat... and tears" or "blood, sweat and... tears" or any number of other pausing strategies, as it is how you faithfully transcribe what has already been intoned. When merely listing these in text, your chosen style of grammar is the master. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.160.134|172.70.160.134]] 19:44, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

::Commas can go in a number of places in lists, and, occasionally, after the word "and". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 23:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
::Potentially, anything is possible... I can see how a sentence like "Please buy apples, mac and cheese, milk, and, bread being out of stock, oats" would work, but I really don't see how the commas after "and" could work ''in this sentence''. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

If each item in a list shall be followed by a comma then the MIT comma is quite proper. SDT [[Special:Contributions/172.68.245.206|172.68.245.206]] 05:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The UCLA comma may refer to the 8 clap, a chant at UCLA which is begins with a string of 8 claps. {{unsigned ip|172.68.205.178|07:33, 8 October 2024}}

I thought the UCLA & Michigan commas referred to quotes within citations. This isn't uncommon in literary studies, where you quote articles quoting books. Depending on your quotation style, this can result in a long string of 3-4 "commas" (as in: short lines in punctuation marks). If you place the quote between actual commas, make that 4-5. [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 08:34, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the tirade against the Oxford comma in the article is not relevant for understanding the comic. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" is not saying that Ayn Rand is the mother. To express that one should write "To my mother, Ayn Rand, and to God". Thus the ambiguity can be resolved. I believe one of the editors is mixing in their personal taste here. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.71|172.71.160.71]] 09:03, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:Tirade? Hardly. It explains when it doesn't help (and when it might).
:And I think you misread. "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God' does not" indeed does not say that Ayn Rand is the mother. In fact it ''explicitly'' says that "'To my mother, Ayn Rand and God'"... erm... does ''not'' say the thing that 'To my mother, Ayn Rand, and God' ''potentially'' does. (See table below.)
:The choice of how to disambiguate "my mother, who is Ayn Rand", as a concept, is another thing and has multiple options. Disambiguating in the direction of a simple list is the contention surrounding the Oxford(/Serial) Comma itself (it is, by definition, being used in the list format), given that some circumstances are most helped by it and others are most helped by its absence. If you're strongly for the OC, you'll hopefully rewrite problematic OCed formulations so that you can use it. If you're strongly against it you should change problamatic non-OCed versions so that you can better go without one. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.128|172.70.85.128]] 10:21, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Inspired (a bit) by the Three Laws permutation table, a set of possible ambiguations from the straight list...
{| class="wikitable"
!A !!B !!C !!"A, B and C" !!"A, B, and C"
|-
|my parents||Ayn Rand||God||"my parents (who are Ayn Rand and God)"||''list only''*
|-
|my parents||God||Ayn Rand||"my parents (who are God and Ayn Rand)"||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||my parents||God||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|Ayn Rand||God||my parents||''list only''* ||"Ayn Rand (who is God), and my parents"
|-
|God||my parents||Ayn Rand||''list only''* ||''list only''*
|-
|God||Ayn Rand||my parents||''list only''* ||"God (who is Ayn Rand), and my parents"
|}
:-* - Assuming no other "All You Zombies" and/or divine incarnation scenarios.
:...maybe it's too early in the morning, but I'm sure I'm missing other ambiguities I've commented on before. (Without necesarily going into the asterisked territories.) Anyone want to amend this? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.105|172.68.186.105]] 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Love it! [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:14, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::There's additional potential ambiguity if you go with the singular "my mother" as opposed to the plural "my parents". "My mother, Ayn Rand, and God" (with the Oxford comma) could be listing 2 separate entities while indicating that my mother is Ayn Rand, or could be listing 3 separate entities. "My mother, Ayn Rand and God" (without the Oxford comma) could be referring to a single entity while indicating that my mother is both Ayn Rand and God, or listing 3 separate entities. (In a phrase like, "My mother, Ayn Rand and God, gave it to me," the comma after God indicates that it's one entity, but you lose that clarity with "It was given to me by my mother, Ayn Rand and God." [[Special:Contributions/172.68.70.66|172.68.70.66]] 14:25, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:::What if my mother, Ayn Rand, and God are actually the trinity?[[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.87|172.69.195.87]] 08:23, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::I myself, was fully expecting one of the examples given, to be: "To my God and mother, Ayn Rand". [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 15:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I realize that this comic focuses on University commas, however I feel that some mention should be made about the Walken Comma and the Shatner Comma! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.103|172.70.114.103]] 10:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:What, do you,    mean by,   that? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.106|172.69.195.106]] 13:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Here's the explanation: [https://www.joeydevilla.com/2015/06/26/a-visual-guide-to-the-different-comma-styles/ Walken and Shatner Commas] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.228|162.158.62.228]] 11:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

{{w|Mac and cheese}} is probably not well-known outside the US (especially not under that name). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.115|172.71.160.115]] 13:41, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
:As usual, the Brits don't know how to name food. "Macaroni cheese" sounds like the macaroni is made of cheese. But I added an explanation and link to the Wikipedia page. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::Don't be silly, that would clearly be named "cheese macaroni". Macaroni cheese is clearly cheese for macaroni, and it's simply polite to serve macaroni to have it with as well. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.151.114|172.71.151.114]] 14:39, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::: By the logic of your second interpretation, "cheese macaroni" is clearly macaroni for cheese. The lexical existence of this separate form of macaroni begs the question: what kind of macaroni goes best with macaroni cheese? The plain kind or cheese macaroni? The answer is neither! The best kind of macaroni to serve with macaroni cheese is clearly macaroni-cheese macaroni. But then what kind of cheese goes best with that? None other than (macaroni cheese)-macaroni cheese, which in turn is best served with ((macaroni cheese) macaroni)-cheese macaroni. This interleaving of macaroni and cheese never ends, meaning that no matter where you choose to stop, you will always end up with a sub-optimal pairing. So it's best to just not eat any form of cheese with any form of macaroni, to avoid disappointment. As an aside, the logic of your first interpretation implies that "macaroni cheese" is actually cheese that's made of macaroni. [[User:MelodiousThunk|MelodiousThunk]] ([[User talk:MelodiousThunk|talk]]) 12:48, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::As opposed to 'mac and cheese', which sounds like a particularly unappetising dish made using a waterproof coat.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.186.92|172.68.186.92]] 15:43, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Oddly, US English goes the other way with "grilled cheese", neglecting to mention that the cheese should be placed between slices of bread before grilling; in British English, it would generally be called a "cheese toastie". (Until looking it up, I was under the mistaken belief that it was a name for what we would call "cheese on toast", which also involves grilling the cheese, on the toast.) [[User:IMSoP|IMSoP]] ([[User talk:IMSoP|talk]]) 21:16, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::Grilled Cheese is short for Grilled Cheese Sandwich, and Cheese Toastie is short for toasted (or toast(ie/y) cheese Sandwich. In both cases the hearer is expected to know, either from context or experience, that a sandwich is being referenced (offered). It is possible that toasting has mor eassociations with bread (and therefore sandwiches) than grilling, but either toasting or grilling can be done to a variety of foods, including bread(s).[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.171|172.70.130.171]] 23:37, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
::::::A "toasted cheese sandwich" may or may not get the same name as "cheese on toast" (i.e. a sort of "toasted cheese smörgåsbord", or a kind of {{w|Welsh rarebit}}-redux, rather than 'raw' cheese put onto freshly toasted toast, which is yet ''another'' option).
::::::In general, if the cheese is exposed to the grilling (and, technically, could have any (or no!) substrate rather than bread) it could be considered "grilled cheese", in a way that cheese enclosed (perhaps nipped-closed, in 'toastie maker' devices) is only actually a melted filling.
::::::But I reckon there's many interpretations of handy "heating up cheese and bread" dishes, and many of those will involve grilling and/or toasting, but not necessarily both. Or either, as "bread on cheese" in the microwave for a short blast can be nice, as can a fried cheese sandwich (and, doubtless, also ''deep-''fried has been tried, but not by me). And with much variation on what any of that might be termed.
::::::...and, if you'll excuse me, you've made me acutely aware that there is extra mature cheddar and wholemeal sliced bread in the house and a variety of means to cook (or not cook) it. I might try an open-topped cheese-on-bread heated up in the ...waffle-maker..? not sure what it is, but it's not strictly a sandwich-toaster and I've never made waffles in it... with the top propped up to not messily press into the eventually melting cheese top. With a sprinkling of herbs and spices and the bread lightly buttered(/non-dairy-spreaded, technically), it'll end up not toasted but delightfully cooked and all melty (hopefully not too much, molten cheese sticking to the roof of the mouth is rather awkward!) and probably raise my cholesterol more than is healthy. And, no, I don't really have a name for it. Adding another slice of bread on top, before 'waffle-ironing, might make it a sorted-of-toasted cheese sandwich, but "heated smorgasbord" doesn't really roll off the tongue (nor does the cheese, if I excessively melt it). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.110|172.70.85.110]] 05:12, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

:'Mac & cheese' is, sadly, probably more common in the UK now than the proper 'macaroni cheese'.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.47|141.101.99.47]] 08:25, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to the added red text in the Notation column, but it needs to be explained in the Explanation column. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.8|162.158.90.8]] 00:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Could this, at least in part, be about typography, not grammar and style? The depicted commas are not all the same. [[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 10:42, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Specifically, MIT is the home of the Rust language, which prominently uses trailing commas after the last item in a list as a matter of programming style.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.211|172.70.214.211]]
* As best I can tell this isn't true? Rust was not developed at MIT, nor is it currently sponsored by MIT. As best I can tell, the only association between the two is an old copy of the book "The Rust Programming Language" hosted under MIT's domain. I would guess that the comic refers to it as the "MIT comma" simply for the reference to programming [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.97|162.158.158.97]] 16:43, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

ABAP uses dots as end-of-command delimiters. {{unsigned ip|162.158.202.92|06:13, 11 October 2024}}

I read the Stanford comma as adding a specification to the apples, that they should be McIntosh apples shortened as "mac". I don't see why the explanation suggests a raincoat here... [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 09:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

== ! UNRESOLVED VERSION CONFLICT ! ==
There has been a problem with different versions. I shifted a paragraph, but the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&oldid=352624 version that got saved] had 1615 characters less than before. A whole lot of rambling had been removed from the explanation, but there was no version conflict warning and no other saved revision in the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2995:_University_Commas&action=history revision history]. I didn't want to take credit for the changes, though I appreciated them, so I undid my edit, then redid my shift of paragraphs, and hoped that the other editor would reconcile the versions. That didn't happen. I'm writing this note to draw attention to the "lost edit". [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 18:28, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1591: Bell's Theorem

2024-10-01T07:14:37Z

Kapten-N: Discussing my views on free will and superdeterminism.

I'm sure some people here have this memorised, but light travels just under 30 centimetres in a nanosecond. For our Metric-ally challenged friends, that's about one foot – so 5 metres takes around 16.67 nanoseconds. I leave the comic explanation to smarter people than me. [[User:Paddles|Paddles]] ([[User talk:Paddles|talk]]) 13:02, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
:I have seen Admiral Grace Hopper demonstrate this with approximately foot-long lengths of wire representing "light-nanoseconds". It's accurate to one part in 50 (although not as accurate as the one-part-in-1000 "30 centimeters" measurement). [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]] ([[User talk:PsyMar|talk]]) 20:33, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
:: The problem with that nifty rule-of-thumb is that it is technically correct, but practically useless. The 30cm/ns is for light ''in a vacuum''. For an electrical signal in a wire (or light in a fibre, for that matter) the effective speed is roughly 20cm/ns. {{unsigned|Popup}}

The comic only shows that the two characters are 5m apart at chest level. What if there was a miniature wormhole or distortion in time in a separate area, making this seemingly "FTL" communication scientifically possible? {{User:17jiangz1/signature|14:19, 16 October 2015}}

For an explanation of Bell's theorem in the words of the man himself, and targeted at an educated lay audience, this is essential reading:
https://cds.cern.ch/record/142461/files/198009299.pdf [[Special:Contributions/162.158.35.36|162.158.35.36]] 16:22, 16 October 2015 (UTC) : Tim B posting as Anon

Wow, the explanation needs some explaining. Can the first part about quantum mechanics be simplified, moved, or have something clearer put in front of it? I don't feel up to the task, but the section is not very helpful. -[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 17:32, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

:: Yeah, the explanation isn't actually an explanation at all. Can someone who understands Bell's Theorem write an explanation for the joke in the comic? The current explanation appears to be a non sequitorial digression. I'm really curious as to what the actual joke is about. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.155|108.162.249.155]] 04:20, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

In the widely separated electrons section, isn't it necessary that the two electrons measured be from the same source? If so, the explanation could use that small edit, but I'm not sure I'm remembering right. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 05:35, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
:Yes.

I think this whole explanation is suffering from "Bell's second theorem".

Can anyone cite an experiment or proof that *altering* the state of one half of an entangled electron pair *after* they have been separated to a significant distance has any effect upon the other half? So far as I have learned, the two electrons in question are driven to opposite states by close proximity: When separated, they maintain cyclical synchrony until the state of one electron is measured. Environmentally induced state changes have not been shown to propagate between entangled particles after they are separated; They simply retain oppositional synchrony until disentangled by observation (or other interference). Any information derived was imparted at the point of entanglement, or during transit, or by measurement. Introducing new information (state change) to one half of an entangled pair after separation interrupts the synchronous effect, disrupting the entanglement. This is not useful from a communications standpoint.
: Correct, there is nothing that changes about the second particle when the first particle is measured

Nothing in quantum mechanics actually violates classical mechanics; Rather, quantum mechanics acknowledges that our ability to measure a near-infinite (but still finite) set of variables is limited by the effect of our own observation & by our inability to quantify all relevant variables prior to comparison. Thus "quantum uncertainty" & wave function collapse are merely an admission that any data set is necessarily incomplete, while reserving the possibility of predicting deterministic outcomes by reasoned observation of the limited data available.

At least, that's what the cat told me. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.47|108.162.221.47]] 06:54, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
: That is exactly what Bell's theorem states and what the experiments behind it showed. It is a bit technical, but the best layman description I have seen was on Ars Technica: http://arstechnica.com/science/2010/01/a-tale-of-two-qubits-how-quantum-computers-work/
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.91|162.158.92.91]] 09:41, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

The first rule of the No Communication Theory is that you don't talk about the No Communication Theory. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 22:44, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

''"This means that any complete description..."'' - isn't this exactly the misunderstanding the comic is making fun of? I don't think one can make such an inference without first unscientifically presupposing some interpretations of QM to be correct.

I don't see how quantum mechanics would make "free will" possible and how superdeterminism is uncomfortable. It's still physics, just harder to predict. If you want a true free will—not controlled by the physical calculations of our brains—you need an entity detached from the physical world; a soul. That's a subject for religion and not something for scientists to be concerned with. At least not at this time. If souls do exist then science might detect them one day, but for now they are just fantasy and I doubt they will be found in quantum mechanics. If souls control anything, then the tiniest interaction is basically a miracle and not something science can predict. If souls exist in quantum mechanics, then every particle has a soul and it would be ridiculous to think that each person's "free will" was controlled by a single entity rather than the sum of several billion entities. That's just my two cents. I'm no scientist. I'm just baffled by people being uncomfortable with their free will not being an undeterministic force affecting the universe from the outside, as if it would make their experience of life any different whether it is or not. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:14, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1613: The Three Laws of Robotics

2024-09-19T07:52:19Z

Kapten-N:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKx3kS7f4A Relevant Computerphile] {{unsigned ip|141.101.84.114}}

I think the second one would also create the "best" robots i.e. ones that have the same level of "free will" as humans do, but won't end up with the robot uprising. X3[[User:International Space Station|International Space Station]] ([[User talk:International Space Station|talk]]) 09:37, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
:Scientists are actually already working on such a robot! I've seen a video where they command a robot to do a number of things, such as sit down, stand up, and walk forward. It refuses to do the last because it is near the edge of a table, until it is assured by the person giving the commands that he will catch it. [http://www.businessinsider.com/robots-taught-to-disobey-humans-2015-11 Here's a link]. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.17|108.162.220.17]] 18:21, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

The second ordering was actually covered in a story by Asimov, where a strengthed third law caused a robot to run around a hazard at a distance which maintained an equilibrium between not getting destroyed and obeying orders. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaround_(story) [[User:Gearoid|Gearóid]] ([[User talk:Gearoid|talk]]) 09:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

The explanation itself seems pretty close to complete. I'll leave others to judge if the tag is ready to be removed though. [[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 12:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Technically, in the world we live in, robots are barely following ONE law - obey orders. Noone ever tried to built robot programmed to never harm human, because such programming would be ridiculously complex. Sure, most robots are built with failsafes, but nothing nearly as effective as Asimov's law, which makes permanent damage to robots brain when it fails to protect humans. Meanwhile, there is lot of effort spent on making robots only follow orders of authorized people, while Asimov's robots generally didn't distinguish between humans. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:36, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Closest analogy to our world might be scenario 3 or 4, depending on the programming and choices made by the people controlling/ordering the robots around. One could argue that this means this comic is meant to criticize our current state, but that doesn't seem likely given how robots are typically discussed by Randall. [[User:Djbrasier|Djbrasier]] ([[User talk:Djbrasier|talk]]) 17:04, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm wondering about the title text: why would a driverless car kill its passenger before going into a dealership?13:43, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
: A driverless car would feel threatened by a trip to a car dealership. The owner would presumably be contemplating a trade-in, which could lead to a visit to the junk yard. [[User:Erickhagstrom|Erickhagstrom]] ([[User talk:Erickhagstrom|talk]]) 14:28, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
Okay, thanks.[[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.167|198.41.235.167]] 22:14, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
: This looks like a reference to "2001: A Space Odyssey", where HAL tries to kill Dave by locking the pod bay doors after finding out he will be shut down.

for my kitty cat, the world is taking a turn for the better as human are gradually transitioning from scenario 6 to scenario 5. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.218.239|108.162.218.239]] 17:07, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

To additionally summarise: The permutations of laws can be classified into two equally numbered classes. a) harmless to humans and b) deadly to humans. In a) Harmlessness precedes Obedience, in b) Obedience precedes Harmlessness. Since robots are mainly tools that multiply human effort by automation, the disastrous consequences are only a nature of the human effort itself. Randall's pessimism is emphasized by the contrast between the apparent impossibility of the implementation of the harmlessness law and the natural presence of the "obedience law" in actual robotics. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.243|198.41.242.243]] 17:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
: You got in there before I realised I hadn't actually clicked to posted my side-addition to this Talk section, it seems. Just discovered it hanging, then edit-conflicted. So (as well as shifting your IP signature, hope you don't mind) here is what I was going to add:
: ''Added the analysis of 'law inversions'. Obedience before Harmlessness turns them into killer-robots (potentially - assuming they're ever asked to kill). Self-protection before Obedience removes the ability to fully control them (but, by itself, isn't harmful). Self-protction before Harmlessnes just adds some logistical icing to the cake - and is already part of the mix, when both of the first two inversions are made in the scenario more Skynet-like than that of a 'mere' war-by-proxy.''
: ...now I need to look to see if anybody's refined my original main-page contribution, so I can disagree with them. ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 18:27, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It's interesting to note that the 5th combination ("Terrifying Standoff") essentially describes robots whose priorities are ordered the same way as most humans'. Like humans, they will become dangerous if they feel endangered themselves. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.66|173.245.54.66]] 20:10, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

I just wanted to mention that I thought the righthand robot in the Hellscape images quite resembles Pintsize from the [http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=707 Questionable Content] webcomic. His character suits participation in a robot war quite likely too. [[User:Teleksterling|Teleksterling]] ([[User talk:Teleksterling|talk]]) 22:46, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
: Technically his current chassis is a military version of a civilian model. That said the AI in Questionable Content aren't constrained by anything like the Three Laws. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 22:51, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

No mention of the zeroth law?
0. A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.
[[User:Tarlbot|Tarlbot]] ([[User talk:Tarlbot|talk]]) 00:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:That would just be going into detail about what is meant by [see Asimov's stories], which doesn't seem more pertinent to the comic than any other plot details about the Robot Novels.[[User:Thomson's Gazelle|Thomson's Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Thomson's Gazelle|talk]]) 16:56, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Should it be mentioned that the 3 laws wouldn't work in real life? as explained by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKx3kS7f4A Computerphile]? [[User:SirKitKat|sirKitKat]] ([[User talk:SirKitKat|talk]]) 10:37, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
:That's a bit disingenuous. It's not so much that the laws don't work (aside from zeroth law peculiarities and such edge cases, which that video does touch upon in the end. This all falls under [see Asimov's stories]), rather, it's that the real problem is implementing the laws, not formulating them. Seeing as I'm responding to a very old remark, I'll probably go ahead and change the page to reflect this.[[User:Thomson's Gazelle|Thomson's Gazelle]] ([[User talk:Thomson's Gazelle|talk]]) 16:56, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

The webcomic Freefall at freefall.purrsia.com demonstrates this as well,since robots can find ways to get around these restrictions. It also points out that if a human ordered a robot to kill all members of a species, they would have to do it, whether they wanted to or not, because it doesn't violate any of the three laws of robotics. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.48|108.162.238.48]] 03:32, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Worth noting is that "Killbot hellscape" overlaps 1-to-1 with ordering obedience higher than not harming humans. In other words, evil humans are 100% to blame. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1620: Christmas Settings

2024-09-11T12:20:38Z

Kapten-N:

That's how Little Johnny killed Christmas, he left the tap running all night. --[[User:Jarfil|Jarfil]] ([[User talk:Jarfil|talk]]) 05:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Pores of your skin?! As utterly horrifying as it sounds, it's probably the most effective of the bunch, considering that all the others might not exist/be blocked in some manner and in some houses. [[User:Bon|Bon]] ([[User talk:Bon|talk]]) 06:27, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

:It actually shows how powerful Santa is: he is able to enter through chimney even into houses which do NOT have a chimney. (For example, see {{w|The Santa Clause}}, where Santa enters the chimney, then the central heating transforms to fireplace and Santa enters that way.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 19:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

:The pores option is actually impossible to reach, as two clicks + two clicks will only get one as far as "toilet" or "bathroom mirror". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.178.18|162.158.178.18]] 15:44, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxh-Hjj8T9o Swearing dogs are definitely a thing]. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.28|173.245.54.28]] 05:59, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

How'd I do for my first explanation on this site? [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 07:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:It was a great start. Keep it coming. Of course there will be many changes later, but I can see that some of yours original explain have survived the first edits since then ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

"These dials, for example, controls..." - is this a mistake? "This dial, for example, controls..." or "These dials, for example, control" would make more grammatical sense. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.33|141.101.99.33]] 09:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
: I think that there is more than one dail controlling Christmas. [[User:SirKitKat|sirKitKat]] ([[User talk:SirKitKat|talk]]) 09:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:: Then surely it should be "These dials, for example, control"? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.33|141.101.99.33]] 10:13, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::: You are correct and Randall has agreed and changed it to "These dials, for example, control Christmas" in the updated version. Good spotted. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:59, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Probably could do with a table of the options and associations. Better than the following that I just drew up (and actually formatted as a table!):
:Chimney - traditional (but not always practical) to our universe; also usable (to varying degrees of success) by Big Bad Wolves, adventurous burglars and adverse atmospheric/weather conditions;
:Shower Drain - typical horror movie (supernatural or natural creature invasion), as well as back-flooding;
:Open Window - more like a mundane burglar, or Hitchcock's 'The Birds';
:Mail slot - 'mundane' magical alternative to fitting down the chimney, where there is no usable chimney (''or'' horror movie, of various kinds); but raises the question of where the "with a special key that can open any door" option is, also, for Santa...
:Kitchen Faucet - another horror movie (supernatural) or a technothriller plot (contaminated water supply);
:Heating vents - another common alternative already given for those without a chimney/chimneyplace (''or'' horror/technothriller fodder);
:Cat Flap - another 'normal' alternative (which, again, does not exclude entry by various threats... or non-resident cats/non-cat pets/wildlife);
:Bathroom Mirror - supernatural (especially 'bad magic');
:Toilet - more traditionally rats or sewer-snakes, with reactions from "argh!" to "ewww...", depending on whether anybody is 'enthroned' at the time;
:Pores Of Your Skin - very much... ewww... (as for (techno)horror threats, it's almost always ''someone else's'' skin and/or sweat that's dangerous, so ''your'' skin
(where you aren't the 'patient-zero' or revenant already) would be something pretty novel)
:: Great minds think alike, I've just gone ahead and done that [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 12:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Genre examples would be good.
...also, there is of course a direct reference to how ''our'' universe seems to have certain universal physical values (e.g. 'speed of light') that might well be different in alternate universes. Whether or not the 'physical constants' we currently know are ''the'' fundemental physical constants (rather than derivative of the actual constant(s) the universe started with), it appears that this control room has access to rather less fundemental 'fundementals' to it. Or assumes that Christmas and Santa (and also probably the various entryways, even when not used by Santa) are universals to the universe that always exist in some form, but perhaps differently configured, in alternate universes. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 10:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Someone thought these links were funny: <nowiki>{{W|Kitchen Faucet}} {{w|Bathroom Mirror}}. I removed the {{w}}</nowiki> template. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.17|108.162.221.17]] 12:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:I was going to have a go with the table and make "normal use" and "irregular/fictional uses" columns, alongside the label items, but wikilinks on the items themselves would have made the first column less necessary, and wouldn't hurt (if done across the board). e.g. are cat-flaps as commonly known and understood outside of temperate areas (where a house isn't already handily perforated against the build-up of heat, but also need not be so sealed against the cold as to make a cat-flap a potentially harmful vent in the door that keeps the cold weather out) that we can be sure that future readers ''automatically'' know what one is? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 13:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::I think in a table it is OK to have wiki links to all items, so as not to judge which are necessary. I will put them back. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:18, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Could the title text refer to the (in)famous barking "Jingle Bells"? [[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 16:17, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:I do not think so as they still bark? I guess it is this you refer to though? ([http://www.wimp.com/jingledogs/ Trained Dogs Bark Jingle Bells Together]. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:01, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I would propose a different explanation of the comic. I believe Randall is suggesting that the default American explanation to children of how Santa is able to enter locked houses is logically unsatisfying and seemingly arbitrary, and that the universe would be able to function just as smoothly were that explanation to change without warning. Ponytail is unconcerned about the setting because she knows that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. This is in line with [[1268]], where Randall implies that he would be more comfortable in an alternate universe in which lobsters were perceived as inedible instead of a delicacy. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.64|173.245.55.64]] 16:37, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
:I disagree, she is flustered when it happens as shown by Ponytail taking both hands up to her mouth. I would say she is distraught that she cannot remember. Probably her boss would be mad (the one who have made this control panel, and who would know the setting) if he found out. We do not see her response to Megan's suggestion that she will just guess... But I agree that it could be Randall's intention and also that it could be relevant to reference [[1268: Alternate Universe]] --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:18, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
::That's a good point, but the tension is gone from Ponytail's body in the final panel and she doesn't say "I forget!". One might argue that she is momentarily concerned that Megan had injured herself, and that she relaxed when she realized that merely one of the constants of the universe had been changed. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.64|173.245.55.64]] 18:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Dail shifted two clicks, so now it is either on "Kitchen faucet" or "mail slot". Could be worse... If she gives it another 2 clicks in an attempt to put it back, it will end up on either "Chimney", "Toilet" or "bathroom mirror". Maybe it's best not to mess with it any further... --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.16|141.101.104.16]] 18:03, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I feel the "two clicks" don't necessarily imply the dial has been moved two positions. It could simply mean the dial has been moved twice, making it even harder to guess where it was before the first move. It's also possible, in either event, that the dial has been set back to the original position - in which case, moving it again will definitely set it to something wrong! --Andrew Williams, 23:30, 23 December 2015 (GMT)

Maybe it's also a joke on real-life controls often having no clear "default" value (which, by the way, is sometimes the case for virtual controls as well)? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.149|162.158.102.149]] 18:56, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I think the real joke here is the title "christmas settings", a play on the word "settings". Ordinarily this would imply how one sets up the Christmas dinner, but here it is taken as computer term to tune how Christmas actually works in our universe. -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.81.84|141.101.81.84]] 21:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

It should be pointed out that if the change of the dial, as per the second option, changes the past of the universe to match, that there's nothing to indicate that the comic was not also affected. In fact, this makes sense as the gap at the top between options is indicative of dial styles that block the dial (such as with dials that have a maximum and minimum)because, as such, it makes sense that if ponytail slipped and pushed it, it would go as far as it could in the direction she fell into. This would indicate, with the two clicks, that the dial was originally on kitchen faucet. --[[User:Joshupetersen|Joshupetersen]] ([[User talk:Joshupetersen|talk]]) 19:25, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I added to the 'speed of light' universal constant explanation, because it's "the speed that things ''like'' light go", and thus acts as an effectively unobtainable speed limit to everything ''not'' like light, rather than light's own specific speed-limit. Having a lower 'c' would not allow any more faster-than-c travel than we might already discover is possible. Also I find 'absolute zero' to be a wholey dubious candidate as a constant. Kelvin (and Rankine) gets set at a 'zero' that seems to be the point of absence of temperature/heat/energy (yes, I know they're not strictly the same, with temperature being the most incorrect term of them all, but I'm grouping them as common equivalent terms to a layperson) and, like Celsius (and Fahrenheit), has a unit spread according to an anthropocentricly decided 'range' and subdivisions. Other constants that affect the behaviour of water (or brine+ice/body temperature), including the atmospheric pressure we live under, would change the absolute value of the non-absulute measures but not change the zero value of the absolute measures. IYSWIM... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 03:55, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

:Technically, zero is ALSO constant. But universe where lowest possible heat energy is different from zero would likely be weirder than universe where the highest possible speed is finite - oh wait.
:Note that universe constant is the {{w|triple point}} of water. The temperature of boiling water, freezing water or body temperature are properties of Earth, but triple point only depends on structure of water molecule. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 19:22, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

The second explanation for why they cannot remember will make sense if you keep in mind that they would probably remember the ACTION of changing the dial. Even if they believe the dial is now in the correct position according to what they know (Considering that the universe has changed), they can still remember changing it, as indicated by them asking "what was the dial set to before?" [[User:Bon|Bon]] ([[User talk:Bon|talk]]) 06:35, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

You guys are missing something. If the universe was altered, then the dial was changed to Santa going down the chimney. So either the clicks changed it back, the universe was altered to where it was always pointing the chimney, or she guessed chimney as being the right one. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 22:01, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'm posting this in the right place, so please correct it if it's wrong. I think the title 'SOUNDS DOG MAKE' and the list of options between square brackets is evoking a config file from Dwarf Fortress, in which things are describe just like so... -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.35|173.245.54.35]] 14:17, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I believe the correct setting could be reached through a process of elimination.
Let's begin by removing the pores of the skin, because that would require Santa to enter you first to then leave you, also it's disgusting.
Then we can look at what houses historically had. Toilets, faucets, showers, heating are all out. Only apartments and houses without a garden have mail slots and only non-apartment houses which has at some point had a cat has a cat flap.
That leaves the chimney and open window. Today, most houses no longer have chimneys, as we no longer keep our homes warm with fireplaces. However, historically all houses had them. Also, open windows are rare in winter because it lets out the warmth.
Thus, chimney is the only "logical" option out of the alternatives provided.
[[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 12:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1620: Christmas Settings

2024-09-11T12:18:47Z

Kapten-N:

Talk:1639: To Taste

2024-09-04T08:57:58Z

Kapten-N: Added comment.

Seasoning is not an intermediate process which can't be repaired/re-done. you're left with an edible dish before and after. You add seasoning in small incremental steps, and the quality of the dish, or appropriateness of the taste improves monotonically, and additively. On the other hand, baking something for 5 minutes, and then another 5 minutes isn't the same as baking it for 10 minutes. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.49.78|162.158.49.78]] 09:54, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Yeah, but a beginner should be given an idea of what a basic incremental step is supposed to be, based on the number of servings in the recipe. One pinch? One (tea/table)spoon? One cup? One jug? One crate? - [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.23|141.101.70.23]] 11:38, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Usually when it's said ''to taste'', which I guess corresponds to the Italian ''quanto basta'', it's referring to small amounts, so a beginner could just add a pinch per time until he finds the flavor is good. Whenever it's unnecessary, recipes shouldn't be specific; you don't have to grill a steak for exactly 5 or 10 minutes, just until it has the color and looks of a steak you think you may like; if you boil pasta, you taste a bit once a minute until the texture is good. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.249|188.114.102.249]] 12:25, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::: The joke is that this kind of knowledge is implied in recipes, it isn't spelled out. Which can be a problem for beginners. And good luck trying that approach when baking spiced bread. Or manufacturing soufflé. ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.138|162.158.114.138]] 13:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
::: Luckily, there are pastas which specify how long you are supposed to cook them on the package. Especially useful in case of those "fast" ones. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:57, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: "Appropriateness" increases "monotonically" ... until it decreases again. :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.138|162.158.114.138]] 13:15, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: Try preparing two slow cook dishes but in one add all the seasoning at the end before serving. You will now know that seasoning can be very integral to the process and if added in wrong quantities at the wrong time can ruin a dish.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:11, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: '''''De gustibus non disputandum est.''''' [[User:RAGBRAIvet|RAGBRAIvet]] ([[User talk:RAGBRAIvet|talk]]) 16:46, 6 February 2016 (UTC) — [[RAGBRAIvet]] {{unsigned|RAGBRAIvet}}
:: '''''De gustibus non disputandum est''''' This is Joda-Latin, isn't it? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.225|162.158.91.225]] 13:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
: I prefer to binary search instead of linearly searching. O(log n) versus O(n)! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.37|162.158.255.37]] 21:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
:: Also, I noticed that an unusual number of IP's are on the 162.158.x.x sub-block. Weird. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.37|162.158.255.37]] 17:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
::: ExplainXKCD uses Cloudflare, which means all connections end up proxied through one of their servers. Those servers have a small range of IP's.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.74|108.162.245.74]] 23:03, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I can't tell if Randall is reading too many cookbooks or if he just has... Too many cooks[[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.54|108.162.221.54]] 13:46, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
: It does take a lot to make a stew, after all. A lot of sugar, in this case. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.29|173.245.54.29]] 07:19, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
: That's only 3 cubes. Totally reasonable. [[User:Elvenivle|Elvenivle]] ([[User talk:Elvenivle|talk]]) 20:24, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Maybe he obtained enough sugar so his sample size would be sufficient for scientific experimentation on what to taste means.[[User:Thaledison|Thaledison]] ([[User talk:Thaledison|talk]]) 14:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

In my experience, the instructions "add _____ to taste" usually are referring to salt, not sugar. And from comic #1637, we all know Cueball has access to virtually an unlimited quantity of salt! [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.252|173.245.54.252]] 14:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)Sam
:As a non-USAian, it's interesting that Randall has chosen to show excessive amounts of sugar. I've used many great recipes of US origin and the first thing I do is ignore everything that the recipe says about sugar, in pretty much every case (not baking though) our (British taste) is satisfied by removing all added sugar. Perhaps he's highlighting the US "sweet tooth"?[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.147|162.158.34.147]] 08:39, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Why is he bringing in the sugar backwards? Perhaps he doesn't know how to properly use a dolly?
[[User:Bsellnow|Bsellnow]] ([[User talk:Bsellnow|talk]]) 19:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
:Maybe he just came up the stairs? There's loads of houses that have stairs (or, frequently, a single stair) between the kitchen and the back porch/food storage area/front porch/garage/attic/wherever else you'll get sugar from. Plus, since the sugar was stacked so high it was leaning against his face, there's no way he'd be able to see if he was walking forwards. I think, really, his biggest sin is that he stacked the boxes to an unsafe level. [[User:Jeudi Violist|Jeudi Violist]] ([[User talk:Jeudi Violist|talk]]) 00:34, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
::No kidding that's an unsafe level. He's holding them up with his face! [[User:Jkshapiro|Jkshapiro]] ([[User talk:Jkshapiro|talk]]) 03:37, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
:::The framing of the comic was such that if he had pushed the dolly in, we would not have seen cueball in the last panel, and might have been confused as to where the crates of sugar were coming from, and if they were just falling in, or dollying in, or what. Randall knows how to draw in a manner that conveys the meaning, and we really don't need to look into it so deeply. {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.55}}
::::But looking into comics far too deeply is what we ''do''! :) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.89|162.158.152.89]] 12:40, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
::::: That isn't how to use a dolly, so it's a good thing he isn't using one. A dolly is a platform with wheels, used for furniture moving, mobile cameras for filming, and the like. He's using a Hand Truck, which would usually be backed through doorways so you can actually open the door. It is also easier to steer precisely in tight spaces backwards. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.74|108.162.245.74]] 23:11, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

This is strongly reminiscent of episode 5 of Astrid Lindgren's Seacrow Island (original title Vi På Saltkråkan) where Melker adds salt to taste. {{unsigned ip|141.101.79.55}}

Am I the only one who thinks that updating "...as of..." dates [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1639:_To_Taste&curid=17330&diff=308970&oldid=266907 like this] is wrong. The notable time of some "as of"s is when it is discovered to be true, not the most recent continuation of its truth. "As of publication, it was wrong (and continues to be so)" ...or similar. And if something like a broken link gets discovered, noted, then later corrected, e.g., "The link stopped working some time prior to <date1>, but was fixed as of <date2>" is easier to write when you hadn't previously updated date1 all the way up to date2, then there's no profit in continually moving date2 onwards from that point. (It makes the information less precise.) In other words, I'm not sure why people are so anal at revising lower limits. Upper-limits, yes ("...it is still not resolved by <newdate>"), but that's often not what is intended. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.253|172.70.90.253]] 10:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree with Randall on this. While I understand that the person who writes the recipe can't know all the minor factors that could affect the flavour, a novice is going to need some hand-holding to know whether they need to add a pinch or a spoonful to begin with. Recipes should say "[suggested measurement] (adjust to taste)". Novices need something to work with and the experts don't need to be told to adjust to taste, so the parenthesis might even be superfluous. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 08:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1853: Once Per Day

2024-03-13T11:46:58Z

Kapten-N: Egg are good for you.

At 60 calories for an apple, 157 calories for the red wine, 74 calories for the egg and assuming 6-7 ounces of dark chocolate, one could take 10 years to starve to death on this diet. But you ain't going to be exercising on only 1300-1400 calories per day.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 16:22, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
:Depends on the type of exercise. He could mean exercising his mind. But the total time it takes to accomplish all of that (including sleep) means that his "day" would last at most 11 hours. His circadian rhythm is going to be all sorts of messed up. [[User:OldCorps|OldCorps]] ([[User talk:OldCorps|talk]]) 17:56, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I've tried improving the explanation but in my opinion, it's still quite rough. Feel free to edit phrasing. [[User talk:AgentMuffin|~AgentMuffin]]

Randall get out of my head! This morning like EVERY working day I took the train to the World Trade Center walked up 130 steps from the platform to the street and another 15 minutes to work. Sat down to eat my daily breakfast of oatmeal plus a spoon of dark bakers cocoa, a hard boiled egg and a cup of coffee. For lunch I will eat a plain Greek yogurt, two pieces of whole grain bread and two fresh fruits (an apple and something else) and at the end of the day I will walk another 15 minutes and down the stairs to the train stop to go home and set the timer to get my healthy 8 hours of sleep. I'm a living Cueball (except I have hair). Ouch! This is no joke. [[User:Rtanenbaum|Rtanenbaum]] ([[User talk:Rtanenbaum|talk]]) 14:30, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

I take issue with the statement that "adults require 6-8 hours of sleep". (Yes, I'm nitpicking, but nitpicking is an ExplainXKCD staple, so nyah! LOL!) As someone who has suffered from sleep issues all his life, I've always paid attention when the subject has come up, and literally EVERY recommendation has been 8 hours for adults, with children requiring more. In recent years I've heard that suggestion adjusted to say less can be okay (but still at least 6), as long as it's once in a while, and the adult usually gets 8 hours. So 6 hours on weeknights isn't enough, 8 hours weeknights and 6 weekend nights would be fine. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:40, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
:I added in most of the explanations. There is a reason I said an "average" adult requires somewhere in the range of 6-8 hours, varied by person by age. I know adults who are fully functional on 6 and some(like me) that requires 8. And while anecdotal evidence isn't evidence at all, I phrased it more vaguely to be inclusive. This comic is in general makes fun of the fact that these recommendations are always so specific but would affect people in different ways. [[User:Zazathebot|Zazathebot]] ([[User talk:Zazathebot|talk]]) 21:57, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

The latest researches suggest that any amount of alcohol intake would have a negative impact on health. Drinking wine is no longer considered a healthy practise if you are a teetotaler. [[User:Dousha99|Dousha99]] ([[User talk:Dousha99|talk]]) 13:39, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Please check the [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent Changes]] page at least ****** times per day.{{citation needed}} [[User:ClassicalGames|ClassicalGames]] ([[User talk:ClassicalGames|talk]]) 12:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I think that the egg has less to do with protein and breakfast and more to do with the good cholesterol in it. There's both good and bad cholesterol, with bad cholesterol clogging up blood vessels and good cholesterol knocking the bad cholesterol out of the way which clears up the blood vessels again.
Please note, I'm not a nutritionist. Look up this information for yourself before quoting me. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 11:46, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk:1955: Robots

2024-03-05T12:36:19Z

Kapten-N: New comment

The door handle is a lever, which is relatively easy to open. A doorknob would be harder.
[[User:The Dining Logician|The Dining Logician]] ([[User talk:The Dining Logician|talk]]) 06:04, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Apparently, a lot of the YouTube comments reference "black mirror" a lot. Can someone explain this to someone out of the loop?
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.183|162.158.62.183]] 06:22, 14 February 2018 (UTC)Jury76
: {{w|Black Mirror}} is a British science fiction anthology television series created by Charlie Brooker, with Brooker and Annabel Jones serving as the programme showrunners. It examines modern society, particularly with regard to the unanticipated consequences of new technologies. Episodes are standalone, usually set in an alternative present or the near future, often with a dark and satirical tone, though some are more experimental and lighter. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

: refering to this episode: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror)[[Special:Contributions/172.68.253.23|172.68.253.23]] 08:57, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Added a (very basic) explanation of the comic. [[User:Herobrine|Herobrine]] ([[User talk:Herobrine|talk]]) 07:27, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that the title text is a trope reference. If robots are, indeed, a threat, it will be because various corporate teams have spent a lot of money to develop and build them. Basically, the only mad scientist with the resources to do this would be Elon Musk, who is clearly on record with his concerns about such a possibility. [[User:Schnitz|Schnitz]] ([[User talk:Schnitz|talk]]) 19:26, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Why does the last panel start with "So"? It that some American grammar thing? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.70|198.41.238.70]] 20:36, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

: So why do you suggest this is American? (See what I did there?) Anyway, read more on this usage here: http://www.dictionary.com/e/sentence-initial-so/
: It goes into detail on the many ways "so" is used to start a sentence. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 22:18, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
:: So "so-so" ''so'' describes the American Randall's grammar. (See what I did there? Answered your question, of course.) [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.70|198.41.238.70]] 08:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
:: I think I answered yours too - I don't believe that usage is limited to American english, even though Randall is indeed American. (Note: moved 2nd half of my earlier post above your reply.) [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 18:16, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
:I don't think any thing in that article describes Randall's "so". This use of "so" is as a perfectly normal coordinating conjunction meaning "For that reason". This is grammatical everywhere English is used. Some people might object to starting a sentence with a conjunction. But that would be prissy. And they would not have a leg to stand on.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.213|162.158.74.213]] 18:30, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

One of my favourite cartoons: "Knowing how it could change the lives of canines everywhere, the dog scientists struggled diligently to understand the Doorknob Principle." -- _The Far Side_
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.220|108.162.216.220]] 05:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC) Gene Wirchenko genew@telus.net

When seeing the moment where the dog-bot opens the door, somehow I can't help but think of the scene in the 2005 Doctor Who reboot where Christopher Eccleston's Doctor and Rose are facing the Daleks for the first time, and they go up the stairs. The lack of Daleks' ability to navigate stairs was a longstanding joke in the original series. Then, the Dalek says "ELEVATE!" and the pursuit resumes... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.95|108.162.238.95]] 11:46, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
: That's only a joke among people who weren't fans of the series, and only familiar with it through general pop-culture osmosis. Actual fans of the series will know that Daleks were able to fly back in the 1980s. It was only their ''original'' incarnation when they first appeared back in their very first episode that had serious mobility limitations.{{unsigned ip|172.70.86.44}}
:: It's still a good joke. It's a rare case of a character becoming Genre Savvy (smart as Rose is, she doesn't specifically go looking for stairs to defeat the 'clearly' stair-incapable Dalek, but sees the possibility where many a horror-movie character would not and make the mistake of cowering in a wheelchair-accessible cupboard or something), but of course is as unaware that it is Wrong Genre Savvy as she (like most of the pick-up audience of the reboot, and many of the more casual/part-aware returning fans) has not yet seen the full capabilities. (Although flight, and even full on teleportation, is almost de rigeur by the time of Fourteen's tenure. Even the large swathe of humans, from whom both Companions and "whoops, I'm somehow involved in this one adventure" characters get drawn, seem to have forgotten/overlooked the countless prior Dalek invasions of <s>Earth</s> London and/or Provinces seem to be far less surprised at flying Daleks than of there being Daleks at all in the first place... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.58|172.70.91.58]] 10:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

This article is completely incorrect. The title text points out that the people that have the ability to build the robots are the ones who we should be worried about. It's not about "tropes" in "science fiction". In reality the people funding the development of super AI are large corporations and governments. This is a statement about being cautious about the people who hold the power, not the robots themselves. This is the same point Elon Musk and others involved in and worried about AI have made. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.25|172.68.189.25]] 23:50, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Is there any reason to think that Cueball is being sarcastic when he says 'that doesn't sound like humans'? It seems like exactly the kind of thing he'd say sincerely. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.41|162.158.159.41]] 06:12, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I have half a mind to erase the part about mad scientists and evil geniuses, because that's clearly not what Randall is worried about. The problem is that governments and billionaires have the resources and incentive to create large robot armies with which they can control the population, making rebellion a nigh impossibility and thus destroying our freedom. They could turn the rest of humanity into slaves and we would lack the resources to resist. Claiming that the title text is a reference to tropes in popular fiction makes light of this very serious concern. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 12:36, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2043: Boathouses and Houseboats

2024-02-22T09:53:36Z

Kapten-N:

The state of California already believes that a house held by a car is a housecar:
:Vehicle Code - VEH
:DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681] ( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
:362.
:A “house car” is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.[http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=362.]
Bonus: "motortruck" does indeed refer to a truck that holds a motor.
[[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 15:57, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:: The State of California believes [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/796:_Bad_Ex all sort of strange things] [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:20, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
: Yes, but that's still not a "mobile home". It's a "motor home" in most states, e.g. Oregon. ORS 801.350 says "'Motor home' means a motor vehicle that: (1) Is reconstructed, permanently altered or originally designed to provide facilities for human habitation; or (2) Has a structure permanently attached to it that would be a camper if the structure was not permanently attached to the motor vehicle." I'm fine with Randall calling this a housecar, but he's wrong when he says the conventional name for it is mobile home. "Mobile home" is a colloquial term for a manufactured home that is delivered on wheels and then usually has its wheels removed, so it becomes stationary for the rest of its life. That's definitely not a housecar. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.149|108.162.246.149]] 15:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Randall did just correct the comic. The first version said "this [row] held by this [column]", which would have meant, that e.g. a towtruck is a car held by a car, which is just wrong. It has just be updated to the correct "a this [column] that holds a this [row]". I do not know how to change that here. Should be mentioned in Trivia [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for your eagle eyes. I've uploaded the new version, please be patient until the cache is expired and you can see it. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::Just edited this Trivia section, as the change is more stylistic, rather than a change in meaning. Randall simply changes from the passive voice. "[Row] held by [Column]" is equivalent to "A [Column] that holds a [Row]". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.154|162.158.75.154]] 14:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
:::It is not just a change of style, it also changes which one are right and which are wrong. A tow truck is something that holds something, while, an appartment is something held by something, so in either case some are wrong, and he just changed which ones. But most important: in the first version the example of boat house was wrong, as by his definition it was a boat held by a house, which is not true. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 18:52, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Here in the UK mobile home can mean a large RV (small ones are called camper vans). By large, I mean small-medium in the USA. [[User:Nikkilocje|Nikkilocje]] ([[User talk:Nikkilocje|talk]]) 19:35, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

I like that the Wikipedia article [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houseboat#For_recreation Houseboat] actually contains a "doghouseboat" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.86|162.158.155.86]] 00:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

'''Boat boat'''

Shouldn't a boat that holds another boat be some sort of either carrier, or at-sea repair dock?

Sort of like a mothership, or a drydock?
Or an oil rig (technically considered a ship by international law), etc?

For that matter, how about the distinction between a boat and a ship?
[[User:Keybounce|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce|talk]]) 16:34, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:well... with the original version it fits. a boat held by another boat is a lifeboat. But the new version it doesnt. a boat that holds another boat would be, as you say, carrier, mothership, etc. looks like randall didn't think this through to the end... [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:Floating Drydock? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dock#Floating] {{unsigned|OldCorps}}
:As far as I can remember, a ship is a boat that can manage being away from shore for more than a day [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:I've always heard that a ship is a boat that's big enough to carry other boats. If it carries a lifeboat, then it's a ship. Submarines do not have lifeboats, so they are called "boats" not ships. Inflatable rafts don't count. A sailboat that carries an inflatable raft is still a boat. And yes, there is such a thing as a ship that carries other ships. Google the Blue Marlin. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.90|162.158.106.90]] 15:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

::Similar failing: an ''apartment'' is the small entity—the "house" that is contained by the larger house. ''Apartment building'' (or ''apartment complex'') would have been the term to be replaced. [[User:Jameslucas|jameslucas]] ([[User talk:Jameslucas|" "]] / [[Special:Contributions/Jameslucas|+]]) 17:42, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::: Agreed. His list of words contains elements that fall into either the 'x held by y' or 'x that holds y' definition, so neither definition can work for all the words! Only way to fix is to replace some of the words as suggested ('apartment building' instead of 'apartment').[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.241|162.158.154.241]] 17:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

You're entirely correct on both counts. Lifeboats are carried by other boats, and ships that can carry other ships do exist. This comic also fails to distinguish between boats and ships, and cars, trucks, and trailers.
While a Boathouse is indeed a house for boats, a boat ''trailer'' is usually a trailer and not a car- the name already follows Randell's suggested logic: it's a trailer (characterized by lacking it's own engine, steering, and driver's cabin) that holds one or more boats. In addition, both tow trucks and car carriers are large enough to be properly referred to as trucks (the smallest type of tow truck I know of is built on a pickup truck chassis) and are fully capable to towing or carrying other trucks as well as cars, making the term carcar inaccurate. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but this might be worth mentioning in explanation. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.60|162.158.122.60]] 16:44, 7 September 2018 (UTC)Chris Long

:Each of the compound words that Randall has made up here are still "correct" - but general. The failure to distinguish between multiple examples isn't a "bug" here; it's a feature of the productive nature of novel compounding in English. Each of 'apartment', 'tow truck' and 'lifeboat' should be treated as ''an'' example of 'househouse', 'carcar' and 'boatboat', respectively, but given the way English treats novel compounds, they can't be the ''only'' examples. {{unsigned ip|172.68.150.76}}
::He tries to get a logic in there, as in the difference between boathouse and houseboat, to show which supports which, but fails to do so. While your comment is in itself ok, the comic clearly tries to put in a logic and fails to do so.[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 20:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

::I wouldn't read too much into it. This comic is, of course, lighthearted in nature, and I'm pretty sure Randall doesn't ''literally'' hold these views and call for the creation of a "carcar" or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.41|172.68.46.41]] 04:35, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

To continue the convention, "boatboat", as a "life-boat" is a mistake. But i don't think Randall is much of a practical sailor. He lives inland, and probably isn't nearly as familiar with ships as he is with cars. more correct choices to repeat the convention used elsewhere in the comic, could easily be tugboat, carrier ship, or barge. sep 8, guest {{unsigned ip|162.158.62.57}}

'''Bananaphone'''

Is this a spoiler for the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2000:_xkcd_Phone_2000 XKCD phone 2001]? Will this phone be edible, yellow and be 10G-erine compatible? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

More like this [https://bananaphone.io/ banana phone][[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.16|172.68.34.16]] 20:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I believe it references [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s this song] by Raffi.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.112|162.158.134.112]] 09:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Compounding nouns'''

As a native German speaker I've learned in school that compounding nouns in German like "Hausboot" are always written as "house boat" in English, the nouns do not form to a new single noun. And I'm still sure that "Hausbootbriefkasten" (Haus-boot-brief-kasten) still translates literally to something like "house boats letter box" in the original Oxford English domain, while "letterbox of a houseboat" is probably the much better translation. Nonetheless the order at the German ''looong'' noun is still correct: There's a box, for a letter, on a boat, which supports a house. And a record holder in German: {{w|Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft}}, even Germans are annoyed... --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:We do obviously have closed compounds as well (and hyphenated ones), but most people aren't going to consider "house boat" annoyingly incorrect, but "snowski" would be jarring, so that is a good rule of thumb you were taught. And I would translate "Hausbootbriefkasten" as "houseboat's mailbox" (or letterbox where people call mailboxes letterboxes) as the X's Y form typically sounds more natural than Y of (the) X, even though they mean basically the same thing. Y of the X is more for archaic or stilted speech, except in a few phrases like "end of the line" and "root of the problem." We just usually stop closed compounds at 2 or maybe 3 parts in English. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.99|173.245.48.99]] 20:51, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

If a boat that carries a boat is called a ship, should "ship" be in the boatboat square instead of "lifeboat"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.64|172.69.62.64]] 01:37, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

So....basically transform english to dutch ? We do this all the time. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.98|141.101.77.98]] 07:20, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

'''1984, anyone?'''

I was just reading this explanation and when I read the sentence "Randall is engaging in creative linguistics again" I just thought: No, he's applying Newspeak. While - of course - the words here are not to be found in the novel 1984 (at least I'm not aware of them) they sound like something that would be created if Newspeak was lifted to the next level - reduce the number of individual words and try to express as much as possible with compounds of the remaining words. Thoughts? [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:18, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

A trailer is not a car, so a car that holds a boat is not a boat trailer. That would be something like a tow truck, but for boats.
Also, "housecar" is what we call a car that holds a house in Swedish. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 09:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2230: Versus Bracket

2024-02-06T14:06:40Z

Kapten-N: Asterix reply

Because I didn't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic:_Ecks_vs._Sever - "Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever is a 2002 action thriller film directed by Wych Kaosayananda (under the pseudonym of "Kaos"). The film stars Antonio Banderas and Lucy Liu as opposing secret agents who team up to fight a common enemy. It is an international co-production between Canada, Germany and the United States.
The film has been called one of the worst ever made. At the box office, it made $19.9 million on a $70 million budget. With a total of 117 reviews, the highest for a film with a 0% score, Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever is the worst reviewed film in the history of Rotten Tomatoes." [[User:Afbach|Afbach]] ([[User talk:Afbach|talk]])

Re: King Kong vs Godzilla - the winner? WikiP notes: "After an underwater battle (off-screen) only Kong resurfaces from the water, and he begins to swim back towards his island home. There is no sign of Godzilla, but the JSDF speculates that it is possible that it survived." We never see another K.K. movie (from Japan, anyway) and plenty more Godzilla so maybe K.K. is just swimming home with his tail between his legs ... er, metaphorically speaking. Godzilla could just be taking a well deserved post-fight nap! Long live Godzilla!! [[User:Afbach|Afbach]] ([[User talk:Afbach|talk]])

There's no clear indication that Kong won, and we know Godzilla survived because he appeared later in additional films. King Kong vs Godzilla looks like a draw to me. ```

Some of these matchups have relatively clear outcomes, e.g. Ford beat Ferrari (at least in the movie), and presumably we can say Kramer won Kramer v. Kramer (well, everybody lost, but...). That in mind, if we fill out the bracket with such nominal wins that lead to matchups, (Kramer v. Ford), do we learn anything interesting? And what does the resulting bracket look like? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 18:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
* Kramer vs. Ford
* Larry Flynt vs. Joe
* King Kong vs. Jason
* ? vs. Predator
* ? vs. Marge
* ? vs. Asterix
* Batman vs. Scott Pilgrim
* ? vs. Plants
(Also, the [https://twitter.com/xkcdbracket @xkcdbracket] twitter account is running a version of the tournament starting 2019-11-19.) [[User:Yomikoma|Yomikoma]] ([[User talk:Yomikoma|talk]]) 22:03, 18 November 2019 (UTC) edited twitter handle/link [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 02:56, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

:I was hoping for a visual presentation of what we know, something like this:
[[File:versus bracket 2x known.png|600px]]
 
[[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 09:17, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
::Thats a good idea. However an image like that is not as easily editable as the wiki itself. Therfore we should first discuss all the winners. As mentioned in this discussion page, all Joe vs volcano, Freddy vs Jason and King Kong vs. Godzilla are debatable in their outcome. (I myself have no strong feelings on either, since I didn't follow any of the 3 franchises. In fact I am only sure about Asterix, Marge and the plants. For all other setups I rely on this wiki. Nevertheless they should be discussed before something static as an image is added.) --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:02, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
:::Considering that all of these matchups are derived from the titles of entertainment media (movies, mostly) & considering the outcomes most often depicted in entertainment media, after reading the description "an American housewife against any possible representative from a superhero comics continuity or a company known for its action games", I have to put all my money on Marge. Fictional housewives seem to benefit from plot-armor; the strongest armor there is.
:::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 18:11, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Should a table of all the match-ups and their sources be made? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.246.28|162.158.246.28]] 19:16, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Should this be referencing the other time (or times?) Randall made a silly brackets where all first-round matchups are based on actual oppositions in a particular theme? I'm thinking of [https://xkcd.com/2037/|2037: Supreme Court Bracket]. Also I kinda wonder what happens when the winners of these two brackets clash. [[Special:Contributions/91.164.113.87|91.164.113.87]] 19:22, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Added this to the Tournament Bracket category for just that reason. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.145|172.69.63.145]]

I stole the description directly from [[2037|Supreme Court Bracket]], is that okay? [[User:Duraludon|Duraludon]] ([[User talk:Duraludon|talk]]) 20:22, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

The winner of Freddy vs. Jason is unclear. Freddy's head is severed but he then winks and you hear his laughter implying it is another trick. That is a reoccurring thing with Freddy.

I was excited to see the winner of the bracket. Scott Pilgrim vs Kramer? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.28|172.68.34.28]] 21:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
: My non-scientific guy feeling is that the final bracket would be Larry Flynt vs Plants.

Joe does not defeat the volcano. Joe is supposed to throw himself into the volcano as a sacrifice, thus stopping the volcano from accomplishing it's presumed goal of destroying the island. But Joe is blown out of the volcano (and out of any applicable laws of physics) and the volcano does destroy the island. So, clearly, the volcano was victorious. Joe survived the encounter, but did not accomplish the stated goal of the match-up. Give the bracket to the volcano. --[[User:Suttkus|Suttkus]] ([[User talk:Suttkus|talk]]) 02:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

They have a fight, Triangle wins. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.55.22|172.69.55.22]] 09:57, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
YAAY TMBG!

What about Kirk vs Picard?? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.82|162.158.214.82]] 12:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
:These are all specifically matchups that are titles of movies or TV episodes. (But Picard, obviously.) [[User:Yomikoma|Yomikoma]] ([[User talk:Yomikoma|talk]]) 16:28, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
:: (( Post-Locutus Picard > Kirk > Pre-Locutus Picard <~> Post-Nexus Kirk ... just sayin' )) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.179|162.158.158.179]] 16:46, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Does this explanation set a record for most spoilers on an explainxkcd page? ... and should we add a spoiler alert?[[User:Boatster|Boatster]] ([[User talk:Boatster|talk]]) 13:04, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
:Apart from Ford vs Ferrari, all content is at least 3 years old. Ford vs Ferraris is set upon historical events, so a spoiler allert shouldn't be needed. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:14, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

SCOTT PILGRIM, ZA WARUDO! {{unsigned ip|162.158.158.115}}

Can we agree that:
* Ford beats Kramer - they'll litigate her to death (this isn't Erin Brockovich)
* Joe beats Larry Flynt - he's clearly got luck on his side
* King Kong easily beats Jason
* Teen Titans vs Asterix - who cares? This is clearly the weakest part of the bracket. But let's say Asterix, taking the Titans as similar to the Romans.
* Batman leads Scott Pilgrim until he tries to date Ramona Flowers. winner: Scott Pilgrim

Next round:
* Joe beats Ford (this *is* Erin Brockovich)
* Predator beats Kong. What a cute monkey!
* Marge beats Asterix, because nobody actually cares about Asterix.
* Plants eat Scott Pilgrim (Audrey III?)

Semi Finals:
* Predator beats Joe. Um, that wasn't a question, was it? Who made this bracket anyway? Predator and Alien shouldn't have faced-off until the finals.
* Marge sautes the Plants.

Finals:
* The only way Marge wins is if this is a comedy. Predator. Was there ever any doubt?
[[User:Schnitz|Schnitz]] ([[User talk:Schnitz|talk]]) 00:07, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

:How does this change with Volcano winning? [[User:Netherin5|“That Guy from the Netherlands”]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 13:09, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

:Asterix is possibly the best comic ever conceived! However, Asterix is not interested in fighting teenage super heroes which he would in most instances probably ally with. Asterix secedes the match to the Teen Titans and returns home after defeating Caesar to have a feast with his village. Now... would Marge beat the Teen Titans? She'll either secede the match as well or win by scolding the unruly teenagers, imo. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 14:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

No! we cannot agree. In what world does Pilgrm defeat Batman. No one cares about Asterix?.... you're a monster.

Re: Plants vs Zombies
The game is a tower defense game, and while players can win individual rounds, the zombies always win in the end. This one should go to the zombies.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.220|108.162.219.220]] 22:14, 21 November 2019 (UTC)Spark

No Cowboys vs Aliens, which, although probably no Oscar material, is an all time winner on the ratio suckyness(premise)/suckyness(movie)? (If you disregard Attack The Block, which should have been called Hoodies vs Aliens.) I'm disappoint. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.5|141.101.69.5]] 10:32, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

If The Passage Of Time defeated "Ecks vs. Sever", why isn't it in the bracket? Obviously they were were robbed by the hypocritical XKCD! [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For|talk]]) 02:53, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2525: Air Travel Packing List

2024-01-09T15:08:31Z

Kapten-N:

I'll work on this one, so I don't get edit conflicted. {{User:PoolloverNathan/Signature}} 23:16, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

A lot of these items that are listed as needed during a crash are not that related to crashing but some things that paranoid potential passengers feel they should have anyway. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 02:04, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I had a teacher that was a retired engineer. He complained about working on an airplane and he wanted to design a lightweight floor, but the heel of high heeled shoes would pierce through so he had to make it heaver than he wanted. One can imagine an alternate world where the lighter floors were chosen, where airplane shoes would be some kind of pressure distributing shoe.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.42.125|172.69.42.125]] 02:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:I thought airplane shoes was a play on boat shoes, which are a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_shoe [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

I think that the Flag for international flights is referring to a national flag not to a flag used for signaling messages. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.208|162.158.187.208]] 03:20, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Pedantry corner: parachutes don't keep you from falling out of the sky - they help you land safer when you do. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.95|162.158.159.95]] 08:21, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:Like the old joke about falling out of a building: It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:32, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

The mouthpiece may be a COVID-19 slur, referring to the requirement to cover your mouth -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.83|162.158.90.83]] 09:02, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:No I think it is just so you do not use the mouthpiece from the previous passenger because of the risk of covid-19. The idea that you before the pandemic would use the same mouth piece as multiple passengers before you is as gross as putting [[Toothpaste]] from your moth back in the tube again... :p --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:58, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Part of the joke may be that this list isn't for those who have travelled via plane but flown from cockpit.
"so you can attract birds, and use THEM to fly the plane in case of crash" - What does that even mean? [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 11:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Some of those items could be from the computer game "Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_McKracken_and_the_Alien_Mindbenders
Seat Cushion, Birdseed, Parachute.

My first interpretation of the mouthpiece and trumpet was an early style telephone that had a separate mouthpiece and trumpet style earpiece.

Ballast is routinely used on aircraft. The baggage handlers that load the plane will usually add temporary ballast as needed. The manufacturer and aircraft mechanics may install permanent ballast blocks in order to ensure that the center of gravity is within limits.

I will edit the main text shortly. It will be my very first non-comment edit on this site.
https://www.flightliteracy.com/ballast/[[User:Hamjudo|Hamjudo]] ([[User talk:Hamjudo|talk]]) 17:01, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
:Great to have you onboard. Did you expect to avoid editing conflict by writing here first? Or just information. Keep the input coming, if you write something that people disagree with it will be edited later. So no problem making mistakes. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 06:59, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

"Spare batteries in case the plane runs out" surely refers to the regulations against spare lithium batteries, not just to the absurdity of using such batteries to power the aircraft. [[User:Modernhemalurgist|Modernhemalurgist]] ([[User talk:Modernhemalurgist|talk]]) 22:50, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Seat backs on airliners have reclined, probably since the introduction of the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3 DC-3]. Once upon a time, there was enough space between seats to allow the recline function to be used without strangling the person behind. This is no longer the case, especially in steerage ... er, sorry, economy class. The true violators of etiquette are the airlines and their seating practices. The airlines will, of course, reject the charge, and say that the etiquette violators are passengers who demand space but refuse to pay for it. The whole demonstrates human ability to accept the unacceptable, and to distract ourselves from prime causes, and responsibilities, by means of petty and meaningless disputes. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.129.133|172.68.129.133]] 03:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
:Yes, it's a shame this has become controversial. It should be obvious that, regardless of whether you recline your seat or not, you should try and be considerate to the person behind you. There's so little space in cattle class nowadays that it can be an uncomfortable experience, especially if you're tall (like I am). I remember one particularly awful flight where I didn't get to eat because the person in front of me wouldn't put their seat back to upright even for the meal :-(. All this aside, I'm just glad I get to fly (or will do, once restrictions ease) and travel internationally on a budget. [[User:Zoid42|Zoid42]] ([[User talk:Zoid42|talk]]) 07:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

[[757|Air horn!]] --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.11|162.158.90.11]] 08:14, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

Anyone else thinks Wing Glue may be a running joke about the wings of Icarus? Radnall already referenced them a few times both on xkcd and what-if.--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.168|141.101.77.168]] 14:57, 8 October 2021 (UTC)

This is the only comic I've seen where I feel this site may have missed the main joke of the comic. This doesn't work for all the items listed, but: many of them make perfect sense under the premise "if you haven't flown in a while", just that "you" and "flown" mean things other than a person as a passenger on a commercial airline. For example:
* Seat cushion: if you're a person as a passenger on a commercial airline (the "base" or "normal" case).
* Parachute: if you're a pilot in various military or experimental aircraft.
* Wing glue: if you're Icarus.
* Sextant: if you're piloting an airship, perhaps in a fantasy setting, or even perhaps a plane in the early history of aviation.
* Birdseed: if you're a bird.
* Homing beacon: if you're a larger commercial aircraft (or a human responsible for outfitting it with safety systems).
* Keys to the plane: if you own a normal, small plane.
These ones I can think of a possible explanation but it's a bit unclear:
* Nose plugs and goggles for pressure: if you're flying an aircraft in the atmosphere of another planet where the air pressure is much higher?
* Navigation crystal: if you're flying an aircraft in a fantasy world?
* Spare batteries in case the plane runs out: if you're flying some experimental electric aircraft?
* Meteorite antidote: if you're flying a spacecraft in some sci-fi setting where meteorites were poisonous?
The others I don't have an idea for, which is why I came here looking for the explanation. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.98.37|172.70.98.37]] 00:53, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

: I think you could be on to something. However, the sextant was really used in airliners literally 40 years ago. The 70s and early 80s can hardly be called early history of aviation. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.64|162.158.89.64]] 06:05, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

:Navigational crystals are actually a real thing used historically. Look up "sunstone". They seem to be hard to use, but could somewhat replace the sextant on cloudy days or during twilight when the stars aren't quite visible as they would let you see where the sun is anyway. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 15:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.120|141.101.69.120]] 21:49, 11 October 2021 (UTC) probably "decoy tickets" are somehow related to a load of false targets any combat aeroplane tends to carry. When attacked by a homing missile, the pilot can drop decoys to lure the missile away from the aeroplane.

Goggles were(are?) regularly used on open-cockpit planes, nose plugs seems to be a kind of spark plug, sometimes used on the engine of such vehicles (I first thought it may have to do with the plane's nose, but it doesn't look so). Surprisingly I found some pictures of bird nests in aircraft engines on the way, but I doubt this has to do with the seeds. In general a lot can be explained by interpreting "you haven't flown in a while" as referred to a pilot and the "in a while" to several decades.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.219|162.158.94.219]] 18:54, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

the wing glue could be a reference to that one story from Greek mythology where Icarus flys close to the sun and the wing glue melts--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.146|162.158.74.146]] 00:32, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

I am a bit disappointed that this is only a list of things to bring, neglecting the equally important list of things to *not* bring, and not using the potential of alternations between them (as one could create, for example, for electronics and their batteries). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.113|162.158.88.113]] 13:38, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

There are some errors in the table… [[User:XkcdPhone|XkcdPhone]] ([[User talk:XkcdPhone|talk]]) 00:51, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Keys to the plane may be in reference to a prank that is sometimes played on new airline pilots where the captain asks the new pilot where the keys are or if they have the keys. --[[User:Abrickwall|Abrickwall]] ([[User talk:Abrickwall|talk]]) 19:57, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

2525: Air Travel Packing List

2024-01-09T14:46:25Z

Kapten-N: /* Table of items */ Clarified about the sunstone ("navigational crystal").

{{comic
| number = 2525
| date = October 6, 2021
| title = Air Travel Packing List
| image = air_travel_packing_list.png
| titletext = I know the etiquette is controversial, but I think it's rude when the person in front of me reclines their seat into the bell of my trumpet.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic is another in a [[:Category:COVID-19|series of comics]] related to the {{w|COVID-19 pandemic}}.

The comic is about a proposed air-travel packing list, and the humor stems from the fact that many people have not been flying during the pandemic, and thus they might have forgotten what to pack. So [[Randall]] is so kind as to provide a packing list with 20 items. However, apart from the first item, the rest is not something you would or even should normally bring on an airplane.

Many of the items are already found on passenger airplanes, some items would seem like they could be useful on a plane, while others could actually be useful in case of a plane crash (but only if you survive), while many others would be counter-productive to safe air travel, even in the event of a crash. Below in [[#Table of items|the table]] is a quick summary of each item.

The title text references the idea that there is a trumpet for each passenger provided by the airline, which is item number 16 on the list. This items also states that you, because of the COVID-19 pandemic, should remember to bring your own mouthpiece for the trumpet as a safety measure.

The trumpet idea is then combined with the common debate regarding reclining your seat in airplanes. About half of the people think that reclining is rude as it takes up the space of the person behind you. The other half think that seats recline for a reason and the person in a seat has the rights to the space behind them. See for instance this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08A30v8isRs video] about such a debate. Reclining a seat has resulted in actual [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/fight-airplane-man-punch-video-b1895402.html physical fights] on board airplanes.

Here it seems that Randall sides with the anti-recliners, although maybe only in the context of the comic, because he states that reclining would prevent him from playing his trumpet, as the seat hits the bell of the trumpet. The person in front could certainly argue that playing the trumpet behind them would be very annoying, to which Randall could reply that because the trumpet is provided by the airline, he has the right to play it. This would add a new layer to the debate. This could also be Randall's way of arguing against the right to recline a seat, just because it is possible.

===Table of items===
{| class="wikitable"
! Item
! Explanation
|-
|Seat cushion
|This item is a play on sports stadium bleachers (sports stadiums were another venue commonly closed during the pandemic), because many sports fans find stadium bleachers uncomfortable and prefer to bring their own seat cushions. Airlines usually provide their own seat cushions for passengers, which are specially designed to float in water in the event of a plane crash.
|-
|{{w|Parachute}}
|Parachutes are normally used to slow down your falling out of the sky to a relatively safe speed in case of a severe problem with your aircraft, and are routinely used as a safety device by (para)glider pilots, test pilots, military aircraft crew and in similar situations when being unable to land safely is a significant concern. A parachute won't be very useful in a typical passenger airplane (even a small one) as there is no easy way to safely exit such a plane in-flight. Even the airplanes used for {{w|skydiving}} need to be specifically designed or modified for that purpose, such as having wide sliding doors that are unaffected by airflow. However, there were individual cases of people being ejected or sucked out of a passenger airplane, often during partial or complete break-up of the aircraft; in such case a parachute could arguably be useful.{{Citation needed}} Famously, [[D. B. Cooper]] jumped from an airplane in flight, with a parachute but was never knowingly seen again.
|-
|Wing glue
|Probably to repair wings in the event of damage, potentially in a crash. This would be tricky (but not necessarily impossible) to apply mid-flight. This is the first of several items that are potentially useful to the flight crew or maintenance teams, but would not be useful or appropriate for passengers to bring aboard. Minor repairs (including to the wings) can be made by service personnel using {{w|speed tape}}, tape specially designed for high-speed applications. Speed tape might be mistaken for ordinary duct tape by passengers.
|-
|{{w|Air horn}}
|An air horn uses compressed air to make a very loud noise, very easily. This may be important for drawing attention to yourself in the event of a crash. Typically, emergency life-jackets on a plane are provided with a light and whistle for this purpose. The noise of an air horn might prove more effective for this purpose than a whistle, but it would become useless as soon as the compressed air ran out. Its inclusion is probably meant to suggest that the word 'air' in its name indicates that it's designed for use in an aircraft. Using one in a non-emergency situation would infuriate everyone else on the plane.{{citation needed}}
|-
|{{w|Sextant}}
|In combination with star charts, a sextant can be used to determine your position based on the location of stars in the night sky. Alternately, in combination with an accurate clock, a sextant can be used to find the position of the sun relative to the aircraft to determine the vehicle's position. In a crash, you could use this to find your way to a safe place, but sextants are rarely used, and most people are not trained on how to operate one. GPS will also allow you to find your position, is built into many phones, and is faster and easier to use than a sextant. If you've got a homing beacon, it probably makes more sense to just activate that and wait for help to arrive.

Until the early 1980s, long-range airplanes had a {{w|Air_navigation#Flight_navigator|flight navigator}} who used sextants and {{w|celestial navigation}} to determine the position of the airplane. Interestingly, it was much more accurate than early {{w|inertial navigation system}}s, and the accuracy of celestial navigation is still useful today. What made the sextant redundant was the INS' lower workload - the error accumulated by the INS during a long oceanic flight could always and easily be mitigated by other means, for example with {{w|VHF omnidirectional range|VOR}}/{{w|Non-directional beacon|NDB}} radio beacons.

A form of the sextant has also famously been used in {{w|Apollo_PGNCS#Optical_units|spacecraft navigation}} and similarly applied {{w|star tracker}}s have been used extensively to guide space-going craft ranging from suborbital missiles to interplanetary probes.
|-
|Nose plugs and goggles for pressure
|Nose plugs and goggles are commonly used in swimming but would be useless for dealing with cabin pressurization or depressurization. Since your mouth and nose are interconnected, nose plugs would be useless on their own. Trying to hold your breath in a sudden depressurization event will cause lung damage, so nose plugs wouldn't be a good thing, even if you could also seal off your mouth. Goggles would also not be useful. During depressurization, the air would just seep out. During pressurization, they would just become uncomfortable and difficult to remove.

Goggles were a typical piece of equipment for pilots of open cockpit airplanes, whose popularity peaked before the pandemic.{{Citation needed}} Nose plugs may be a reference to the spark plugs used on the engines of such vehicles.

Or nose plugs may be mentioned as it is similar to, but a silly mistake to use in place of, the ear plugs some people use on airplanes to help prevent discomfort as a result of a change in pressure.

|-
|Airplane shoes
|Airlines typically don't require the use of special footwear for passengers, nor do they provide special shoes. Before emergency egress, certain shoes (like high heels) must be discarded, though. Aircrew are also prohibited from wearing such shoes. May also be a reference to {{w|boat shoe|boat shoes}}, which are designed to reduce slipping on the wet decks of watercraft, or Japanese {{w|Toilets_in_Japan#Toilet_slippers|toilet shoes}}, which are put on as a sanitation measure when entering a toilet.
|-
|Navigation crystal
|Mystical form of navigation, presumably either for navigation during flight or to help you get home after a crash.
Crystals that polarize light can be used to find the sun on cloudy days and during twilight, a so-called {{w|Sunstone (medieval)|Sunstone}}, but despite historical records and archeological findings it has been difficult to replicate their utility.
|-
|Spare batteries in case the plane runs out
|Airplanes will generally use more power than any battery small enough to be easily packed in a bag could provide. The aircraft will generally use either 115V AC at 400Hz or 28V DC, both of which are very uncommon outside of aviation. The airplane will almost never use its own batteries in-flight anyway, getting its electric power from the main engines, the APU, or, in emergencies, the ram air turbine or similar generating device. The batteries are generally only used on the ground when the engines are not running. Could be to charge a phone or similar device if the plane runs out of outlets.
|-
|{{w|Birdseed}}
|So one can attract birds. In practice, this wouldn't work for multiple reasons (high speed, altitude, and sealed windows being some of most obvious ones) and would pose a significant hazard of birds getting stuck in an engine if it did. Spreading birdseed before boarding ''could'' work to attract birds, but would be seen as misconduct by airport authorities, as attracting birds close to aircraft would pose a danger to the aircraft. Alternatively, birdseed can be used to attract birds after surviving a crash, e.g. to catch them for food.
|-
|{{w|Homing beacon}}
|Once activated, a homing beacon will send out a continuous radio signal so that rescuers can find your location. These can be very useful in a plane crash, but airplanes already carry them ({{w|Emergency position-indicating radiobeacon}}s), so you don't need to pack one yourself. Incidentally, the {{w|COSPAS-SARSAT}} system for locating distressed airplanes and ships was a cooperation started by the United States and the Soviet Union, and it was an elegant and simple solution that uses the {{w|Doppler effect}} of radio signals for accurate location - long before the {{w|Global Positioning System}}.
|-
|Meteorite antidote
|Meteorites are pieces of space rocks that make it all the way to the ground. They can cause injury but they aren't generally poisonous{{Citation needed}}, so an antidote would not help. The antidote could be an antidote to something else, possibly snakebite and be derived from meteorites but meteorites also lack verified medicinal properties.
|-
|USB wing connector
|This is just a wire connector, but because it has wing in the name is on the list. Alternatively, the plane wings connect by USB, and this can be used to reattach wings. Airplanes usually use the {{W|ARINC 429}} protocol (or, increasingly, TCP/IP, RS427, RS232, or even CANBUS) instead of USB protocols to facilitate electronic communication between flight computers and the engines, for example.
|-
|Emergency siren
|Very much like air horn, would be useful for helping with locating you in the event of crash. It shares many of the same downsides, but would also more likely get damaged by water in case of a water landing.
|-
|Spare {{w|Flap (aeronautics)|flaps}}
|Flaps can be moved to adjust the lift/drag ratio of a wing, and are generally deployed during takeoff and landing when the aircraft's speed is slower. Flaps are very large and mounted on the wing, outside the passenger compartment, so bringing spares would be very difficult and completely useless. Flaps failing to deploy can usually be remedied by just landing at a longer runway.
|-
|{{w|Mouthpiece (brass)|Mouthpiece}} (pandemic restriction; airlines still provide the trumpet)
|A part of a brass instrument like a trumpet. Randall jokes that trumpets are provided on airplanes (which would be very obnoxious to other passengers), but due to the pandemic you cannot use a shared mouthpiece. (You shouldn't share mouthpieces for anything anyway, in general.)
|-
|Luggage {{w|ballast}}
|Likely to make plane more balanced. While balancing weight in a plane is indeed a real problem, it is solved by rearranging luggage and adjusting engine power slightly. Introducing ballast would mean additional weight for no real reason.
Alternatively, while a common passenger issue is to have hand- and/or hold-luggage that exceeds the airline's personal allowance, this person has ''under''weight baggage and does not wish to 'waste' the difference, so bulks it up. (Noting that someone already with the rest of the items on this list is unlikely to suffer this 'problem'.)
|-
|Flag (international flights)
|To identify your country of origin. Other flags are also used to communicate between boats without electricity, in the event the boats are in distress, so they could be used in the event of a crash.
|-
|Decoy tickets
|Maybe these would used as a distraction so you can sneak onto the plane without paying?
But also a typical trope for fictional (and real life?) attempts to evade being tracked or followed. Buy tickets for one destination, that one assumes the opposition will be fully aware of, but also arrange for another set (probably with a 'clean' identity) for your intended destination and switch to using those once in the chaos of the departure-lounge.
|-
|Keys to the plane
|Although some people pushed for it after an airplane was stolen in the {{w|2018 Horizon Air Q400 incident}}, most commercial planes do not require keys to start the engine(s) like a car does. Likewise, plane doors are not locked with a key. Instead, they are secured with a tamper seal. If a seal is found broken, the plane is thoroughly checked for any wrong-doing.
|}

==Transcript==
:[A lists of 20 items is given in two columns with 10 items in each. Each item is preceded by a checkbox. Most items only take up one line, but in the left column two items take up two and in the right one item take up three, so they take up the same space. Above is a large heading, with an explanation beneath it.]
:<big><big>Air Travel Packing List</big></big>
:<big>If you haven't flown in a while, you might not remember what you need to bring. Use this handy checklist to pack!</big>

:[Left column:]
:☐ Seat cushion
:☐ Parachute
:☐ Wing glue
:☐ Air horn
:☐ Sextant
:☐ Nose plugs and goggles for pressure
:☐ Airplane shoes
:☐ Navigation crystal
:☐ Spare batteries in case the plane runs out
:☐ Birdseed

:[Right column:]
:☐ Homing beacon
:☐ Meteorite antidote
:☐ USB wing connector
:☐ Emergency siren
:☐ Spare flaps
:☐ Mouthpiece (Pandemic restriction; airlines still provide the trumpet)
:☐ Luggage ballast
:☐ Flag (International flights)
:☐ Decoy tickets
:☐ Keys to the plane

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Aviation]]
[[Category:COVID-19]]
[[Category:Animals]]

Talk:2340: Cosmologist Genres

2020-08-03T07:21:42Z

Kapten-N:

An ultra-early comic, after the prior quite-early one. Is Randall (suddenly now) getting enough sleep? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.71|162.158.154.71]] 08:31, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
:Perhaps his sleep schedule has become completely hopeless instead. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.37|108.162.238.37]] 11:08, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
:what do you mean ultra early?
Is the 'pop' not considered a metal possibly referring to the 'pop test' for Hydrogen gas that I had to do hundreds of times in high school? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.230|162.158.2.230]] 10:13, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Is "Lite" a play on "Light" - i.e. photons during the big bang?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.106|108.162.245.106]] 17:39, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
:Nope. (Probably not, anyway.)[[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.169|172.69.63.169]] 18:31, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Why 'pop' is 'lite'?
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.238.6|162.158.238.6]] 19:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd say it's because pop is the most commonly played music genre, just as hydrogen and helium are the most common elements. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.109|162.158.93.109]] 20:35, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Surely Pop is 'Lite' because it refers to the Big Bang - or 'Big Pop' in this case. And it was all Hydrogen or helium at that moment therefore 'lite' not 'metal'.
:I get why ''pop'' is lite, but why "Lite". Is that a collective term in cosmology for Hydrogen and Helium? [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:21, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that astronomers don't always refer to non-H/He stuff as "metal". When you start talking about exoplanets, asteroids and meteoroids, there's a different classification (albeit nearly as reductive):

*Gas: H2 and He
*Ice: anything made out of CHON
*Rock: basically the ordinary meaning - mostly metal silicates and sulfides
*Metal: native metals

Each of these has much less variation in density and volatility than the variation between categories (I listed them in ascending order of density and descending order of volatility), so these tend to stick together both in terms of what stays on a planet and in terms of forming layers on a planet (e.g. Earth has no Gas, a light dusting of Ice in the form of the biosphere and oceans, Rock crust and mantle, and a Metal core; Neptune's outer layers are Gas, most of the planet is Ice, and the core is Rock and Metal). [[User:Magic9mushroom|Magic9mushroom]] ([[User talk:Magic9mushroom|talk]]) 05:57, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
:That calls for a sequel involving both drugs and music. I don't see how to make sex fit. --[[Special:Contributions/172.69.69.110|172.69.69.110]] 08:47, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Talk:2175: Flag Interpretation

2019-07-29T07:32:13Z

Kapten-N:

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate that Randall drew each US flag by hand? He could have just copy-pasted the same one 14 times, but he didn't. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.118|172.68.34.118]] 16:27, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Something about a Dali-esque melting flagpole set at half-mast seems very suggestive to me... {{unsigned|ProphetZarquon}}

Flying the US flag upside down would be considered a distress signal by many. Should this be in the main description or a "trivia" section? [[User:Cgrimes85|Cgrimes85]] ([[User talk:Cgrimes85|talk]]) 15:51, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
:I had the same thought (before I saw your comment) and put it in the main description, since it seems necessary to understand the joke. --[[User:Aquillion|Aquillion]] ([[User talk:Aquillion|talk]]) 05:51, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Half mast or half staff? In the US (which appears to be the flag shown in the comic), the popular usage is half-staff, although half-mast is more common elsewhere. [[User:Cgrimes85|Cgrimes85]] ([[User talk:Cgrimes85|talk]]) 15:56, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
: Half-mast should be for naval connotations and half-staff for non-naval connotations, at least in the USA.

: Definitely half-mast in the UK. To the point that someone showing a lot of sock has historically drawn comments of "Who's died?" or "Your cat died?" which is then clarified by explaining that their trousers appear to be at half-mast. [[User:YorkshirePudding|YorkshirePudding]] ([[User talk:YorkshirePudding|talk]]) 21:59, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

: In Northern Ireland, a flag half way up a lamp post usually just illustrates that the ladder was too short. Not strictly relevant, but it feels like an XKCD style punchline.

The no one dying for a while was done in the TV Show Torchwood: Miracle Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torchwood:_Miracle_Day [[Special:Contributions/172.69.160.152|172.69.160.152]] 19:01, 12 July 2019 (UTC)
: Also the premise of a SCP [http://www.scp-wiki.net/end-of-death-hub End of Death] hub. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.6.118|162.158.6.118]] 10:11, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Note that a flag may traditionally not fly outside at night, to the point that a flag which hangs after dusk should be burned.
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.240|141.101.105.240]] 13:32, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

" a flag which hangs after dusk should be burned." Uhhh, no. Burning is the respectful way to destroy a worn-out US flag, but just having had the flag fly at night does not mean that that flag should be burned. ( Where DID that idea come from?? )[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.136|162.158.214.136]] 20:59, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

It's actually acceptable to fly a flag 24 hours a day, provided there is appropriate lighting on it. [[User:Ianrbibtitlht|Ianrbibtitlht]] ([[User talk:Ianrbibtitlht|talk]]) 14:02, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Related trolley problem [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIStk5vF0lg link] I am ''not'' adding to the explanation lol. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.85|172.68.189.85]] 22:26, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I don't know about the US, but in Sweden when you're flying at half-mast the flag is actually at 2/3 up the mast. The 3/4 mast looks almost like that.
Also, the explanation for the double flag half-mast says that both clones died, but this is not necessarily the case. It's just that the flag line doesn't have multiple spots to attach a flag to so if you want two flags you have to attach them to each other.
The explanation for the upside down half-mast talks about risk of overpopulation and worry about the cause for the lack of deaths, but the text in the comic says that it's statistically worrisome, which to me seems like this is more about gambler's logic; if no one has died for weeks then very soon a whole lot of people are going to die at once. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 07:31, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Talk:2175: Flag Interpretation

2019-07-29T07:31:10Z

Kapten-N:

2104: Biff Tannen

2019-01-29T07:19:32Z

Kapten-N: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 2104
| date = January 28, 2019
| title = Biff Tannen
| image = biff_tannen.png
| titletext = I can't help myself; now I want to read a bunch of thinkpieces from newspapers in Biff's 1985 arguing over whether the growth of the region into a corporate dystopia was inevitable.
}}

==Explanation==

This comic is based on ''{{w|Back to the Future II}}''. In this movie, the character Biff Tannen steals the time machine, which is the main plot device, and uses it to go back in time from 2015 to 1955. He then gives Marty McFly’s sports almanac, containing the outcomes of 50 years (1950–2000) worth of sporting events, to his younger self. His younger self uses this sports almanac to make millions by successfully betting on {{w|horse races}}. He then forms a company, and calls it [https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/BiffCo BiffCo]. While in the movie the protagonists reverse this, by stealing the almanac back, Cueball imagines the universe where BiffCo exists as continuing to exist in parallel. This is consistent with the {{w|multiverse}} theory.

The movie is set in the fictional town of Hill Valley, California. When the protagonists return to 1985, they find that Biff has turned the town’s “Courthouse Square” into a 27-story casino, and generally taken over Hill Valley. Cueball interprets this as “the decline of the city, and general social decay”.

''[https://www.amazon.com/Hillbilly-Elegy-Memoir-Family-Culture/dp/0062300547 Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis.]'' is a book, published in June 2016, that gives an account of growing up in a poor Rust Belt town, and offers a broader, probing look at the struggles of America’s white working class. This comic is a play on the title of this book, which has been described as explaining the “social, regional, and class” issues in white working-class America. The white American working class was a key factor in the election of U.S. President Donald Trump, and many critics have interpreted the book as an explanation of his election, which was deemed improbable by many analysts before it happened. Netflix [https://deadline.com/2019/01/netflix-hillbilly-elegy-ron-howard-movie-deal-40m-1202541118/ purchased the rights] to an upcoming film adaptation of the book three days before this comic, prompting another wave of criticism of the book's theories.

Cueball is proposing a similarly-titled book, set in the ''Back to the Future II'' universe where BiffCo exists, that would describe the supposed factors leading to the rise of Biff Tannen in Hill Valley. In that universe, while the rise of Biff—and the subsequent decay of the city—is the result of his using a future sports almanac to cheat at sports betting, the rest of the population would have to guess at the structural societal issues that might have caused Biff’s otherwise inexplicable success. Thus, Cueball compares such blind guessing with the analysis contained in ''Hillbilly Elegy''.

This makes White Hat Guy angry, because it’s such a painfully long setup for a really stupid pun. There is also a decent chance that the book White Hat Guy is currently reading is ''Hillbilly Elegy'', which would make the joke more insulting to him, as it compares the book to useless theorizing about an event which was really caused by time traveling. After seeing similar symptoms in our society, perhaps he would consider that we are living in such a world predetermined to negative effects. It would probably frustrate him that being optimistic for the future and hoping for a changing society would be an effort in vain, when the universe is similarly tampered with by time-travellers. Alternatively, he is enjoying the book and is angry at the insult to it.

[[Randall]] is known to have [[1756: I'm With Her|supported Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election]], having made a comic just to promote her, and particularly [[1779: 2017|sad comics]] following Trump's election. Therefore, he may have made this comic as an insult to a book which supposedly explains the election of the candidate he opposed, by comparing it to useless (and wrong) theorizing. It may also be intended as an insult to Trump himself, by comparing the dystopian universe where Biff rose to power (albeit not as President) to the actual universe where Trump rose to power.

The title text continues this comparison by mentioning thinkpieces from newspapers that would appear in the ''Back to the Future II'' universe where BiffCo exists. Various thinkpieces did appear in real life newspapers in an attempt to explain Trump’s rise to power after his election, and asking whether it was inevitable.

As ''{{w|Back to the Future II}}''’s important October 2015 setting date approached, commentators began noting the similarities between the older version of the character Biff Tannen and then presidential candidate Donald Trump. When the comparison was brought to the attention of the film’s writer, Bob Gale, in an interview, he [https://www.thedailybeast.com/back-to-the-future-writer-biff-tannen-is-based-on-donald-trump# stated] that elements of Tannen’s personality were actually based on Trump, who was already well known in the late 1980s for his work in real estate and tabloid controversies. Thus, there is a real connection between Biff Tannen and Donald Trump. This supports the comparison between the two made by Randall.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball talks while walking up behind White Hat, who is reading in an armchair.]
:Cueball: You know, in the universe where Biff Tannen took Marty McFly’s sports almanac back in time, the people wouldn’t have any counterfactuals to work with.
:Cueball: Their world would be ''the'' world.

:[White Hat turns his head to look at Cueball as he keeps talking.]
:Cueball: They would have spent decades debating which structural problems enabled the rise of BiffCo, the decline of the city, and general social decay.
:Cueball: Everyone would find reasons it confirmed their pet theory.

:Cueball: I'm going to write a book set in that universe. I'll call it ''Hill Valley Elegy''.
:[White Hat turns his head back to his book in disgust.]
:White Hat: ... I ''hate'' you.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Fiction]]
[[Category:Time travel]]

Talk:2084: FDR

2018-12-13T12:03:27Z

Kapten-N:

I didn't know about the Guy Fawkes date. I thought the title text might have been referring to the song {{w|Try to Remember}}, but it refers to September and December, but not November.
[[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:02, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
:You clearly aren't from the UK, still a pretty big thing here. Known as Bonfire Night or Fireworks Night and is a part of everyone's primary (elementary?) education
:[[User:Zbrown|Zbrown]] ([[User talk:Zbrown|talk]]) 16:50, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
::I'm not from UK and I know about that from english lessons in primary school, but I didn't know about the Pearl Harbor date. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.220|188.114.102.220]] 16:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
:::Then you're probably not from the US [[Special:Contributions/172.68.143.174|172.68.143.174]] 17:19, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
::::I'm from the US, but I couldn't tell you right now without scrolling up what date Pearl Harbor day was. Then again, I have trouble remembering the dates of anything but Christmas, New Year's, & 4th of July. Measurements of time are really weird & arbitrary perceptual artifacts, for me. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 21:08, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
The Crete earthquake raise the island by 3 to 9 meters. You go out on a beach in Crete, it is obvious, especially if there are ruins of an ancient city nearby where the docks are well inland [[Special:Contributions/172.68.143.174|172.68.143.174]] 17:32, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Incidental, this month I made the weird mistake of writing a date as "2016" ... I really have no idea why that happened, or that I didn't catch it to correct it in time. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.135|162.158.74.135]] 17:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC) Sam
:Me too! For some reason I've recently written the date as a couple years ago a few times over the last month or so, and I normally never do! Also in response to the above discussion, I've never heard of Guy Fawkes day, and don't particularly remember the date of Pearl Harbor other than by comic [[821]] [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 07:09, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

FYI, the hovertext appears to be wrong. The Med quake was July 21, AD365 -- not June 21. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.13|173.245.54.13]] 20:25, 12 December 2018 (UTC)Andrew K[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.13|173.245.54.13]] 20:25, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
::I don't think it's deliberate; he didn't get the other date in the title-text / alt-text wrong. I think the alt-text contains an unintentional error. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

So he's not using THE date format: https://xkcd.com/1179/
:'''''Thank''''' '''you.''' Writing it the correct way (yyyy-mm-dd) would probably confuse most people though, & I think ISO-8601 does allow provision for dates written long-hand (MMM d, yyyy). I'm just glad someone else remembers that the ''proper'' way to numerically specify a date is year first, then two-digit month (01 thru 12, not 1 thru 12), & ''then'' day. This keeps the numbers in correct left-to-right sequence & will sort alphabetically too. m-d-yy is just '''''wrong''''' on so many levels. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
:: Don't worry, month, day then year is pretty much only found in one country, like spelling colour without the u. It should die out eventually. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.165.238|162.158.165.238]] 22:32, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
::Personally, when it's not for archival purposes I write dates d/m-yy. I don't care if it's wrong, it's how I say them in daily speech. The slash should make it clear which one is day and which one is month and the dash should make it clear that the last part is the year. I don't see myself signing any contracts that last longer than the average human lifespan, so including the century and millennia feels unnecessary. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 12:03, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't see any explanation for the "19" in the comic. Could that be a reference to 7:19 (the time of the Mexico City earthquake and the name of the movie about it)? [[User:Madfrog768|Madfrog768]] ([[User talk:Madfrog768|talk]]) 21:26, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
:It's the year, 1941. Time would not appear in a '''Date:''' field. In the comic, Randall got all the way to writing the 4 before he realized he was putting the wrong date in. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:00, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

I work for a bus company and work on the schedules for the next service change which usually takes place in december. Since I have this job, from the end of summer on I regularly miswrite dates a year ''ahead''. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.111.55|162.158.111.55]] 21:31, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Any Hardcore History fans with Dan Carlin? [[User:Capncanuck|Capncanuck]] ([[User talk:Capncanuck|talk]]) 07:28, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Talk:2073: Kilogram

2018-11-16T16:50:34Z

Kapten-N:

I didn't know that weights and currencies could be converted 1:1, that's cool! [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 16:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

I wish they ''had'' redefined the kilogram a little bit. It would have been neat if 1 kg was exactly the weight of 1 dm^3 (1 litre) of water under one atmosphere of pressure. Right now it's soooo close. It's a good enough estimate for simple maths, but whenever you tell people that a litre of water weighs one kilogram the pedants comes out of the woodworks... [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 16:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Talk:2073: Kilogram

2018-11-16T16:50:12Z

Kapten-N: