explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1232: Realistic Criteria

2024-09-16T13:24:46Z

Klo876:

I'm not sure I want NASA (or other space agencies) to solve all problems on earth. And what constitutes a problem? My laptop crashed this morning? Fighting in Afghanistan? Flooding in Germany and Poland? [[User:Kaa-ching|Kaa-ching]] ([[User talk:Kaa-ching|talk]]) 07:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Hence the title: "Realistic Criteria" ;-) [[User:Kaa-ching|Kaa-ching]] ([[User talk:Kaa-ching|talk]]) 07:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

:I'm sure there is more that enough problems for 15 years in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ alone. Also, exploring other planets can help solving problems on our one. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:44, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
::Earth should have a Bugzilla. [[Special:Contributions/80.195.213.223|80.195.213.223]] 13:43, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

''"The argument between exploring space vs saving resources and solving problems on Earth is a pretty common modern one, both in theory, and in practice."''

Actually, we shouldn't have started expanding our species out of Africa before predicting (and allowing for) the development of Religious Hatred, Mechanised Warfare and Oppressive Copyright Practices...{{unsigned ip|86.10.119.75}}
:Personally, I usually quickly send my initial Zulu forces up to blockade the land-bridge in the vicinity of Egypt, and ''then'' expand out throughout Africa so as to allow me to develop my own superior navy (and as many wonders as I can, including the library) before anyone else gets there. (Apologies, my comment below rather sent me down this line of thought.) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.53.132|178.98.53.132]] 17:20, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

This attacks a rather typical conservative attitude that we shouldn't "waste" resources on "minor" problems when there are bigger problems to deal with. (e.g., "Why are you giving me a ticket for speeding when there are murderers out there you should be catching?") The title text pinpoints the fallacy of it (if you only ever work on the biggest problems, you will never solve that problem and also never accomplish anything else) [[User:JamesCurran|JamesCurran]] ([[User talk:JamesCurran|talk]]) 16:10, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I have issue with 'The comic is, at its core, a parody of the overly optimistic scientism that often attaches itself to the idea of a manned Mars mission, which in the minds of its supporters is always "ten to fifteen years away," no matter the unsolved technical or logistics challenges that are still standing in the way.' I think it's the converse. The overly optimistic ''semi-''scientism that if we put something like Mars exploration on hold that the resources this frees up would be instantly transferable into "solving all the world's ills". The ten-to-fifteen-year span is then the (sarcastic?) suggestion as to how long this would need to be done for, before we can consider them all solved and start pumping the same resources back into space missions and pick up from where we leave off.
:I agree that the 'The comic is, at its core, a parody of the overly optimistic scientism that often attaches itself to the idea of a manned Mars mission, which in the minds of its supporters is always "ten to fifteen years away," no matter the unsolved technical or logistics challenges that are still standing in the way.' line is not a correct analysis of this comic. I removed it, but would be happy to see it re-added if there is a discussion here that bring to light any evidence supporting it. [[Special:Contributions/149.32.192.33|149.32.192.33]] 13:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC) Mike Powers
::It could even be some what of a reference to [https://xkcd.com/678/ 678: Researcher Translation] [[User:Regdoug|Regdoug]] ([[User talk:Regdoug|talk]]) 14:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

(Reminds me of my typical Civilization-playing scenario, pumping lightbulbs into one or other single scientific advance, but switching the target when realising I would ''quite'' like something else researched (perhaps for its associated military unit), even though it wasn't my original plan on the way to (perhaps) the Alpha Centauri win. Or, more generally, jumping between all 'spare population' being scientists and them all being entertainers or tax collectors, for a few turns, to deal with morale or cashflow problems while a corrective Wonder is being built... then once it's done I'm free to blithely make it 100% Science again, if I've got such a max/min playing style at the time...) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.53.132|178.98.53.132]] 17:20, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Great(!) Made a unanimous decision to make the change I intended (the "Fuggit!"-labelled edit), after apparently no-one else having an opinion about the need to switch the focus round, and then quickly a set of ''other'' edits occur that don't even revert things back (which I wouldn't have minded). Anyway, don't want to cause an Edit War by reverting/de-reverting/etc, so I'm leaving the following here for your combined consideration.

Mr (or Ms) 149.32.192.33 who "removed the comment about (...) the Mars Mission". You didn't remove anything explicitly about Mars, as I'd already removed that reference and re-edited that section (check what I did in http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1232:_Realistic_Criteria&diff=prev&oldid=42725) and of all the edits I made , I actually quite liked that bit of rare non-waffling. I propose we re-add text similar to:
The comic is, at its core, looking at the idea that space exploration is something we can ill-afford to fund whilst there are so many Earth-based issues that need to be addressed.
It's indicating White-Hat's views, and is neutral about whether this is a ''sound'' idea or not. (The rest is maybe more forceful, as I'm personally definitely not an "Earth-only" person, although I'm not extreme in the other direction either so hopefully created balance.)

My thanks to the typo-corrector (I'm always mistyping "lieu", it seems). Although "spaceborne" seems more correct to me than the hyphenated version. "Space-born", yes (born of space, e.g. a person of said heritage), but "airborne" is a word in my dictionary, so... Anyway, I've no excuse when I used "seem" instead of "seam" as the root of another word.

Dgbrt: Good reduction of my waffle (surrounding my oblique reference to Teflon), but I'm saddened to lose the general (if not always proven) examples and your edit perhaps goes explicitly pro-Space more than I'd intended. Still, it's shorter and more readable. I don't understand the criteria for "Trivia" enough to understand if that'd be a more suitable locale for what was removed. (But suspect it wouldn't be for the purely hypothetical asteroid-avoiding scenario.)

And I know this is potentially a hot-topic. Hence why I used loads of words to try to indicate that it ''is'' a hot-topic, that almost everyone could have an opinion about. (Even exclusing the totally uninformed, "for every expert there's an equal and opposite expert", so I tried to make sure everybody understood why they might find the explanation neither too pro-Space or too anti-space, depending on their defauly stance.) But for now I shall leave it as is. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.53.132|178.98.53.132]] 15:58, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

:Uhhh, who should (or would) read all this?
:I'm trying to keep it simple, but all important details must be shown. That's why this article is still incomplete.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:29, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

:I apologize for the issues. I assume what happened was that we were both editing at the same time. When tried to submit and was prompted to update. I skimmed the update too quickly and only seen the "The comic is, at its core" start of your paragraph and assumed it was the "Mars Mission" paragraph and thus deleted it. I have no issues with you adding the "The comic is, at its core, looking at the idea that space exploration.." initial paragraph and you will not be starting an editing war. --[[Special:Contributions/149.32.192.33|149.32.192.33]] 15:56, 3 July 2013 (UTC) Mike Powers

;Chaos at the explain section

Please try to add your content in a proper way, people will NOT read this chaos. But even if they do, they still do not understand what you're talking about. At this moment this explain is chaos and so it is incomplete.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:41, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, chaos indeed, and I don't pretend to understand the edit-history progression. (When did the Mars Mission get specifically reintroduced? Perhaps I don't care.) How about something ''quite'' brief like...
White Hat is suggesting that the exploration of space and other planets is a luxury that we should not yet be dedicating resources to when there are so many other things for which the resources could apparently be similarly used.
Cueball agrees, possibly disingenuously, then asks how long it would be for a society purely focussed upon Earth-problem solutions to implement the necessary answers, allowing us to renew spending on the aforementioned luxuries without cause for complaint. The Title Text errs towards the lengthier period, almost certainly tongue in cheek regarding the ease of such an approach.
It is probably a simplistic point of view that funding and work currently dedicated to the space sciences are fully transferable away from this area and towards creating a utopian ideal on Earth, on a whim. It also unfairly discounts the very real possibility that large tracts of research and practical engineering might indeed have useful Earthly applications, but without the driver of 'space' may never be undertaken in the first place.
Then perhaps a final paragraph about Real Life not being a game where, turn by turn, the entire scientific apparatus can be diverted from one 'tech tree' target to another without causing stumbling blocks. And that we don't even have a well-defined Tech Tree, and sideways propogation of ideas is rife. Purely non-space research is as self-destructive to advancement as much as single-mindedly purely pursuing its space-targetted counterpart to the exception of environmental protection, food production, etc.

Paragraphs 1 and 2 of this suggestion explain the <strike>obvious</strike> direct content of the comic. Paragraph 3 deals with the issue raised (I'm very much assuming Cueball and the Title Text are being as sarcastic as White Hat is being earnest). Anything else could be considered mere opinion, but perhaps can still be kept neutral. But someone else might have better wording for all of it. [[Special:Contributions/178.98.53.132|178.98.53.132]] 22:56, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

;Do What Works

This is my first post, so I'm not sure if it's appropriate to discuss the underlying theme. If not, please let me know. Anyway . . .

Historically, for my ancestors at least, exploration and expansion to new frontiers did a lot more to solve their problems than any government programs. They came to America during the potato famine, climbed into a covered wagon and headed west.

From Apollo 15 astronaut Alfred F.Worden's poem, "Apollo Lost":

Say to me we need the money 
Just to feed the poor, 
And I say, 'Gee that's funny, 
It's for them that we explore.' 

Say to me we should be fighting, 
Say to me the world's at war. 
And I say we are uniting 
People tired of war and more. 

[[User:CoderLass|CoderLass]] ([[User talk:CoderLass|talk]]) 20:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I apologize if I have made the new explanation too pro-space. But I believe it should be, as Randall is. Great poem, by the way. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.58|108.162.219.58]] 22:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
:Many thanks for your edit, but humans are still also animals. So I did remove a few statements. The incomplete tag is also removed. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:41, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
::You removed the reason why space exploration is especially important? Good job. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.58|108.162.219.58]] 21:59, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Coincidentally, a lot of things that are used in day-to-day life now were actually originally developed for space travel or made possible by space travel, such as GPS, solar energy or the ability to freeze dry food. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 00:04, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

I always felt Cueball was being sarcastic, pointing out the ridiculousness of White Hat's statement.

This comic hits a little differently in 2021, when billionaires are spending [https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/content/jeff-bezos-space-flight-money-better-uses/ enough money to prevent 37.5 million people from starving] in order to enjoy four minutes in space. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.242|162.158.89.242]] 10:49, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
:Hear hear, well said! [[User:The Cat Lady|-- The Cat Lady]] ([[User talk:The Cat Lady|talk]]) 12:14, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

:Thing is, were those issues any less real even back then? I do love Randall's comics, and I've read that he's a nice guy. Yet, the comic itself, as well as the comment thread at the top of this, reeks of arrogance and condescension, as if Randall and people here KNOW the answer to how funding should be prioritized, while the ignorant fool with the opposite opinion does not. Maybe no one actually knows?--[[User:Klo876|Klo876]] ([[User talk:Klo876|talk]]) 13:24, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2492: Commonly Mispronounced Equations

2021-07-24T01:58:48Z

Klo876:

This comic is obviously a take on the generation Z style of writing words without vowels so that they fit on T-Shirts, text messages or to avoid censorship, like "BRLN", "O RLY", "PIX PLZ". Some of the people from that generation are now established scientist, leading their respective fields forward. Obviously this is how they refer to common equations. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.29|162.158.92.29]] 13:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I think the wave equation is wrong based on units, but it's been a while. The wave speed ought to be squared. Of course, ''c'' could be a squared speed, but it's usually not. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.164|172.70.34.164]] 01:22, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

:I agree, normally it's written as C squared... The equations in order are 1: Gravitational Attraction, 2: Einstein's Mass / Energy Conversion, 3: Pythagorean Theorem (triangle side relations), 4: Area of a Circle, 5: Entropy equation, 6: Ideal Gas Law, 7: Euler's Identity, 8: Newtons Second law, 9: Wave equation, 10: The derivative of a function f, and, 11: The Quadratic Equation... I don't understand the linguistic rules being applied to the names, but they seem to be visual as much as anything [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.66|108.162.237.66]] 02:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
::You should turn that into a table in the explanation. We can have a column where we try to come up with the pronunciation rule. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 04:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

The equation for the thing I have as what it was made by is
L
=
i
ψ
¯
γ
μ
∂
μ
ψ
−
e
ψ
¯
γ
μ
(
A
μ
+
B
μ
)
ψ
−
m
ψ
¯
ψ
1
4
F
μ
ν
F
μ
ν
.
{\displaystyle {\mathcal {L}}=i{\bar {\psi }}\gamma ^{\mu }\partial _{\mu }\psi -e{\bar {\psi }}\gamma ^{\mu }(A_{\mu }+B_{\mu })\psi -m{\bar {\psi }}\psi -{\frac {1}{4}}F_{\mu \nu }F^{\mu \nu }.}

when copy-pasted from Wikipedia. {{w|Quantum electrodynamics#Equations_of_motion|here is the link:}} [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics#Equations_of_motion These are both the links.]
For archival, this is the thing: LAGRONJ EYSIBARYMOODMOOSIOYLERSIBRYMOOAMOOBAMOOSIMASIBRSIQORTFAHMOOVYFAHMOOVY.
[[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 02:22, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

My friends and I actually pretty often say "PəV-nert" for the ideal gas law. First syllable is kind of vowel-less, sort of a schwa if anything. But also stressed? Didn't know you could stress a schwa but, guess I did.
[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.160|172.70.130.160]] 02:36, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:My teachers always pronounced it PIV-nert. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.20|172.69.62.20]] 18:38, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I think this is the XKCD that has made me laugh the most, out of all 2492.
:I'd say it might be the one that made me laugh the most, out of all {{LATESTCOMIC}}. I won't, because it didn't, but I could. --[[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 03:23, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:"Doot-ca-doox" is so funny. I'm imagining Pingu saying that. !!!!

I tried to transcribe these pronunciations into IPA, because reading them like this is kind of ambiguous. I probably got a bunch of stuff wrong though.
fəˈdʒæmɚ |
ˈɛmkɑˌtu |
ætˈbutkut |
ˈæpɚˌtu |
həˈsplɒgpi |
ˈpævnɚt |
ˈaɪpɪn |
ˈfimɑ |
dut kəˈduks |
ˈfækslɪmˌoʊ ˈfæksəˌfɒx |
zəˈbɔbə fækˈtoʊɑ |
ˌɛpsɪˈhutəˌmu ˈdupsɪˌkwɔrps

Why is it a soft G in the gravity equation? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 04:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:I believe it's a reference to the "gif" pronunciation debate. "Fuh-gam-er" is the obvious pronunciation, Randal is facetiously asserting "Fuh-jam-er" is correct.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.130|108.162.250.130]] 05:00, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:I think it might be because the English letter "G" is pronounced "Gee" (i.e. "Jee"), which made its way into the pronunciation here.[[User:BenjaminTheBenevolent|BenjaminTheBenevolent]] ([[User talk:BenjaminTheBenevolent|talk]]) 10:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ok_GMxThuo How would you pronounce the word 'give'?] !!!!

The most similar time when equations are actually 'pronounced' a bit like this is the "soh cah toa" mnemonic for the trigonometric identities - should this be in the explanation? (the comic made at least me think that might be the original inspiration) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.204|141.101.99.204]] 06:42, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

:How is "soh cah toa" a mnemonic?? It's just a bunch of random letters. Normally you memorize random letters by coming up with words that fit together, not vice versa. I think this is much harder to remember than the thing it is supposedly a mnemonic for. If anyone actually finds it useful, can you explain how it works for you? I've seen this before so I suppose it's a real thing, but I find it baffling. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.220|108.162.221.220]] 04:15, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
::You ask how it's a mnemonic, yet you say you've seen it before. Think about that for a sec.
[[User:Klo876|Klo876]] ([[User talk:Klo876|talk]]) 01:58, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
::Not sure it's a mnemonic, no, but I was taught SOHCAHTOA by a very good (but strict) maths teacher as in "... (like?) that volcanic eruption". Given we were 10, 11 years old, I don't think we even ''knew'' about {{w|Krakatoa}} at that point (despite having also a very good Geography teacher who readily identified lumps of 'Gneissian schist' that I may have brought back from holiday - he also had a much better sense of humour...) so whether I (or the teacher?) was mistaken in understanding "Sohcahtoa" to be purported to be a (now ironically memorable) volcano rather than it was a "it rhymes with..." mnemonic, I don't now know. But since then I have always used SOHCAHTOA to confirm in my mind which trigonometric identity I should use. And, later, I learnt and never forgot that {{w|Krakatoa,_East_of_Java|Krakatoa is/was ''west'' of Java}}! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.230|141.101.98.230]] 08:20, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
::(PS - If I ever have to use the "Many Very Elderly Men Just..." mnemonic (or whatever it is, I was sure it had had Earthenware Vases, but maybe only in a reversed version!), I tend to have to ''backform'' it from my unclear recollection of the mnemonic(s) I've been told plus just ''knowing'' that it's "Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, **, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune*, Pluto-if-we're-counting-it*" (* - except between 1979 and 1999 when it was "...Pluto-definity-counted-at-this-time, Neptune") (** - and then there's possibly an A, B or C here for Asteroid, Belt or Ceres; nobody I know has ever added Kuiper and/or Oort into the string of words to need remembering, though) using very non-mnemonical direct or indirect knowledge about the solar-system, like Clarke's written version of 2001 aiming at Saturn but Kubrik's film 'only' going as far as Jupiter. So I "(Sometimes?) Might Very Earnestly Make And Join Something Unprecedented Never Known Originally" on the spur of the moment.)
:The circle area might be meant to read out like "upper two", referencing the square. I can't see the same for any of the others though. / [[Special:Contributions/162.158.183.157|162.158.183.157]] 06:52, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

:Mneumonics are supposed to make it easier to remember the equations; this collection would actually make it more challenging to remember these. Mind you, as a math tutor, my first thought was that these were attempts at mnemonics that missed the mark, '''badly'''. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 15:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I see nobody has attempted the Transcript yet. (Also I'm wondering how to 'properly' pronounce P-One V-One Over T-One Equals P-Two V-Two Over T-Two.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.157|162.158.155.157]] 10:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
:I started a transcript. --[[User:4D4850|4D4850]] ([[User talk:4D4850|talk]]) 16:54, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to come in as an amateur, but I think the equation pronounced Ha-SPLOG-pee is actually the equation for Shannon diversity. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.134|162.158.126.134]] 11:58, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
: In my opinion, most of the contributions here are from people pretending to know more than they do. Edit away. Be bold. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.172|172.70.114.172]] 21:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

The Pythagorean Theorem one made me think of the AT-AT debate for Star Wars
:The wave equation reminded me of Jimmy Durante's Ink A Dinka Doo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWqi9eWwXvk I think I'm dating myself (no one else will). [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't think it's clear if the provided pronunciations are the ''Correct'' ones or the common ''mispronunciations''

It's worth noting that the majority of these equations are especially likely to be elided, and that the way they're routinely elided is generally incorrect - and more than that, the stressed syllable in particular is likely wrong. Especially notably "Fu-Jam-Er" should be "Fu-Gam-Er" and "Pav-Nert" should be "Piv-Nert". The joke works on the level of equation pronunciation being pretty intrinsically funny if you're not familiar with the specific equation, but also on the level of the specific equations having a standard pronunciation that pointedly isn't the one in the comic.

It would be interesting to try and reverse-engineer the original equations behind, for example, "Fus ro dah", or "Avada Kedavra". [[User:Cavaler|Cavaler]] ([[User talk:Cavaler|talk]]) 12:53, 23 July 2021 (UTC)