explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-23T22:41:57Z

Martin:

Wow, I got here early. [[Special:Contributions/47.152.141.142|47.152.141.142]] 21:11, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
: *salutations.* [[User:CalibansCreations|'''Caliban''']] ([[User talk:CalibansCreations|talk]]) 21:39, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
The (sort of) Belgian village of Baarle-Hertog has numerous bizarre exclaves with neighbouring Netherlands, almost as complex as the borders in the cartoon. Some of the borders even pass through houses. https://maps.app.goo.gl/M5duocjEkJRQKedEA [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 22 April 2026 (UTC)
:Baarle is divided into two, with ~-Nassau being Dutch (the Dutch royal family is Oranje-Nassau) and ~-Hertog is Belgian. Note that Baarle is a 2km² area with an extremely chaotic border, but that otherwise the Dutch-Belgian border is pretty normal relative to other European borders. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:European states/counties/jurisdictions were often complex and non-contiguous with many enclaves and exclaves. Many of these complex situations have disappeared (e.g. in France through the creation of departements in 1790); but some persisted or still remain. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclaves_of_West_Berlin_in_East_Germany [[Special:Contributions/62.112.240.32|62.112.240.32]] 12:50, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:there's no need to look all the way to Europe, although I was fascinated by "border corpse(Dutch: grenslijk)" stories. One example is the Four Corners Monument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Corners_Monument which is administered by Navajo Nation(!) and also serves as a border for Ute Mountain Ute Indian Reservation.[[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 19:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
::That's the exact opposite of a complex border though: it's just a meeting of four perfectly straight lines. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:41, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:What is it with the Belgians and strange borders? Their border with Germany near Monschau is also a mess of exclaves. --[[Special:Contributions/88.97.176.34|88.97.176.34]] 22:00, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

SMBC once had a similar idea to stop Gerrymandering: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-07-12 [[Special:Contributions/90.146.31.117|90.146.31.117]] 23:02, 22 April 2026 (UTC)

Gerrymandering was not my first thought when I saw this comic, maybe that part should be removed from the description? I don't see any real way that it connects to gerrymandering besides the fact that it talks about borders. [[User:Qoiuoiuoiu|Qoiuoiuoiu]] ([[User talk:Qoiuoiuoiu|talk]]) 01:56, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
: Maybe it was added after the vague link to that SMBC comic was found? [[Special:Contributions/110.145.224.178|110.145.224.178]] 03:22, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:: For what it's worth, the comment about gerrymandering was added in the very first text to be put on that page (21:09, 22 April 2026). It's not merely because of borders; it's because of "borders that have been made extremely convoluted for artificial reasons unrelated to the factors that usually define such boundaries, such as geographical features, roads, latitude/longitude, or regular divisions". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 03:38, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:Even as a non-USian, the recent gerrymandering efforts immediately seemed like an obvious prompt for the idea of the comic to me, even if it doesn't specifically reference it. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:29, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:I put it in my original explanation, before the comment (indeed, before any comments). It only came to mind because Virginia was in the news that day, so reporters were talking about weirdly-shaped districts. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but Randall may have known that the vote was taking place that day when he came up with the comic. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 14:25, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I once spelled out words on openstreetmap. There were some hiking trails nearby from a data set that opened up and I could not put them all up in one session, so I spelled "To Do" (in the shape of the actual hiking trails) on Openstreetmap. [[User:IIVQ|IIVQ]] ([[User talk:IIVQ|talk]]) 05:15, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Is there a category for US State comics? There seems to be a lot of them, and a category might make sence. If there isn't perhaps someone could make one? {{unsigned|GSLikesCats307|09:26, 23 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:There's [[:Category:US maps]], but that is really more specifically of the 'whole' US (give or take contiguousness/fictionalisation), whereas this is more just 'a map', not even necessarily a (theoretical) subset of the US (though the names given to either side of the border do have a more Leftpondian feel, having that 'settler vibe' to them). [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.56|82.132.238.56]] 10:48, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

;Counting Exclaves
The W, O, P, O, ', R, O, A ,P all have clear exclaves. "A" and "R" seems to have two. However, it's unclear whether J and G are entirely exclaves, or possibly letters like "O" are doubly exclaved. If the answer to that is no, then that would mean there are 11 exclaves. Does anyone else agree with this assessment? [[User:Fephisto|Fephisto]] ([[User talk:Fephisto|talk]]) 17:43, 23 April 2026 (UTC)
:No 'letter' is an exclave of Southlake, as I see it. The one "A" has two cut-out regions (let's assume these are all exclaves of East Valley, in leiu of any other info), the two "H"s have an exclave each, the "M" has an exclave, the two "N"s have an exclave each, three "O"s each have one exclave, both "P"s also, the "R" has two separate exclaves (topologically, like the "A") and the "W" has an exclave. Totalling fifteen (presumed) exclaves of East Valley within Southlake's nominal boundary, unless I've miscounted something (probably missed one, rather than repeated anything.
:In addition, the apostrophe is (if not a totally different enclave/unincorporated area) an exclave of Southlake contained within East Valley's main contiguous area, so that's one more (of the opposite association).
:Nowhere is doubly-exclaved (a.k.a. counter-exclaved). Although the pinch-points of some of the baseline-meeting letter shapes (the "O"-bottomed ones, like the "G" and "J", more so even than the "O"s themselves) are close, you can (terrain and obstructions allowing) walk into and around the "letter strokes" from Southlake without crossing over East Valley territory and back again.
:What I find interesting is the slope of the writing (beyond the 'slope of the border' as it would be if it hadn't been made wiggly). I suspect that the way the natural border effectively would go from the character base on the left to higher up on the 'line height' to the right means that the ficticious map-definers (and, by extension, Randall) probably scrupulously ensured that this 'map doodling' made sure to not change the total area possessed by each side. By dipping the text-outlines down into Southlake, the area that might be considered nominally East Valley 'transfered' to Southlake as sections of letter-body seems to be balanced by the gain by East Valley by the baseline (at the right-hand end) dipping down into Southlake territory, until brought back up to the next 'level' section at the extreme right of the panel.
:Might be worth analysing areas, comparing the scrawl-related possessions vs. what a more direct line would give to each. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.117|82.132.238.117]] 20:13, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

I think the county names are a reference to 2548 [[User:FluffyGuardian70|FluffyGuardian70]] ([[User talk:FluffyGuardian70|talk]]) 22:31, 23 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-22T22:24:30Z

Martin:

Talk:3236: Border Message

2026-04-22T22:22:16Z

Martin: Baarle-Hertog

Talk:3227: Creation

2026-04-08T22:22:06Z

Martin: permanent feature?

did anyone else wait for the screensaver to hit the corner? [[Special:Contributions/216.25.182.141|216.25.182.141]] 20:13, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes. I watched waaay too long to see if it would, but lost patience and I don’t want to put effort into determining if it will happen. Can anyone confirm whether or not it will eventually happen either for some people or for all people? [[User:Dúthomhas|Dúthomhas]] ([[User talk:Dúthomhas|talk]]) 23:06, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::The comic always bounces off of the top of your screen, but keeps its place relative to the rest of the page when scrolling, so you can try to make it hit the corner yourself [[User:Jarochar|Jarochar]] ([[User talk:Jarochar|talk]]) 21:21, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
:::You can also resize the window while it's bouncing to move the corner into the path of the comic. I haven't observed anything special yet, but I'm not patient enough to try for a pixel-perfect bounce. [[Special:Contributions/169.150.203.33|169.150.203.33]] 02:46, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I can't work out what Modem mode is meant to do... on my machine it just freezes the whole page. [[Special:Contributions/78.213.151.110|78.213.151.110]] 20:22, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:It plays the sound of an old-style phone modem, and scrolls the comic into view slowly. It's supposed to represent the early days when downloading an image would take a long time. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:31, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:can confirm on android firefox it seems to render the page unresponsive to input - [[User:Vaedez|Vaedez]] ([[User talk:Vaedez|talk]]) 21:18, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Same here on Desktop Firefox - under "Modem mode", the whole page freezes up and the browser prompts me to close it ("this page is slowing down Firefox", or words to that effect). I wonder if it's a Firefox thing - odd if so, because I imagine Randall of all people would test on browsers other than Chrom* - or some weird side-effect of my ad/popup/script/cookie-blockers. A shame because all the other modes seem to work - "Greyscale mode" is far too subtle, and I'm ashamed to admit I missed the change from "math" to "maths"! - but this is a great April Fools' comic. [[Special:Contributions/50.45.232.78|50.45.232.78]] 22:56, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Firefoxer here, and ''without'' any particular add-ons that might interact badly with it... It does (seem to) lock up and it does (sometimes... didn't on at least one occasion) prompt Firefox to ask if I want to stop the page. But if I wait long enough it 'wipes off' the last seen comic image, starts to 'scanline' it back (note: not actually accurate to the real days of modems, as you'd probably be loading up images in interlaced mode) and ''then'' starts to give a modem-shriek.
:I wonder, without delving into the code used, if it's the method used to 'sleep' (could it be using busy-busy NOP-like code, rather than true sleep-interupts?), or just a slightly different asynchronous script-handling method that Firefox uses instead of other test-platforms. [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 23:46, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
::Using Firefox (On mac, in Australia, if relevant) and it works fine, but no audio component. [[Special:Contributions/114.198.19.39|114.198.19.39]] 08:07, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
: For me (in Chrome) it scrolled the whole page in from the bottom, but then kept scrolling so that you got the top of the page appearing beneath the bottom of it - like a TV with vertical hold problems (kids - ask your grandparents). Then changing to other modes it was stuck in that position. However, on subsequent attempts it only scrolled open the comic portion of the page. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 08:35, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

I clicked darker mode and my screen is black and I cant undo it help {{unsigned ip|207.233.27.2|20:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:I assume you mean Darkest Mode, since there's no darker mode. The screen turns black but if you look carefully you can still see the grey of the menu and you can click on it. Also, the menu border continues to appear after you select the choice (at least it does on my Mac). P.S. Don't forget to sign your comment with 4 ~ characters. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 20:31, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Modem mode doesn’t work for me what does it do [[Special:Contributions/2A06:5906:1412:4100:352D:1A2:184:5F3|2A06:5906:1412:4100:352D:1A2:184:5F3]] 20:29, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Modem mode makes the comic slowly print from above [[Special:Contributions/216.25.182.141|216.25.182.141]] 20:34, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

I see the mobile site m.xkcd.com was left out on this change😔 [[Special:Contributions/104.28.215.219|104.28.215.219]] 20:37, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:I have been viewing via a tablet, though I think I've permwnently set my browsers to ''not'' use mobile version sites (they tend to assume viewing everything in portrait, I have found, whereas I almost always browse in landscape, so it gives me badly relocated on-page menu bars, or other wierdnesses).
:Everything seems to work nicely, as I bounced back and forth between modes (and occasionaly went to other comics to see how something like Stained Glass worked with them). Until I tried out the Star Wars scrolling one. Earlier on, I'd checked it out on a desktop, so I left it until one of the last few because it was hardest on the desktop to move on from (unless you used the cursor key, when you'd let the select-drop-down element drift to far 'away' to easily click.
:However, on the tablet, it ''just'' goes black, no appearance of the scrolly-scrawled page contents. (No way to use cursors to change the in-focus drop-down element to a neighbour.) Back-paging just takes me back through the various Random-comic pages I'd passed through, then the plain xkcd.com latest-comic default, all completely black, no animation. (Plane/Boat/Spring/Screensave mode dynamics, etc animated/transformed properly in their various ways.) Back-paging to before landing on xkcd.com (the tab I'd set off from) then forward again landed me in the all-black page with no space-sprawl in evidence...
:...''until'' I turned the tablet sideways (portrait proportions), and there it was. And rotated back to landscape to find it ''still'' properly visible, still scrolling away. Also, discovered I could drag (without pinch-dragging, which is zooming) the scrawl back 'towards me' (essentially scrolling down the skewed page, not an interaction that I'd attempted on the desktop computer), so that I could intercept the dropdown box and shift myself onto a different mode again.
:This is on Chrome For Android. I have other tablet browsers handy, but would need to check them properly before committing to ''their'' compatabilities or peculiarities. But sort of works, after you get over a funny hurdle (as just described), and ''perhaps'' need to have set Desktop Site as default rather than letting your device attempt to automatically use the "m." site version. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.40|82.132.237.40]] 02:56, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

I read “Modern mode” instead of Modem mode and I spent a while making wild theories about what it could be referencing. But I’m also quite sleepy. [[Special:Contributions/146.70.116.107|146.70.116.107]] 20:51, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:i also misread it as modern mode, it made everything lag for me, made it feel like a modern website [[Special:Contributions/85.206.187.35|85.206.187.35]] 00:57, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

I deminified the code if anyone wants it. There are no hidden options or anything like right-click has, but it would be extremely easy to add modes to it. [[Special:Contributions/2601:441:4B7E:7660:0:0:0:AC72|2601:441:4B7E:7660:0:0:0:AC72]] 20:59, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

"Modem mode" works for me in Chromium, but not Firefox. [[User:Robobun|Robobun]] ([[User talk:Robobun|talk]]) 21:06, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:For me it's just slow on Firefox. It takes about 5 seconds to clear the comic and start scrolling it back in, and the static doesn't start until it's almost all showing. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 21:11, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

applies across the whole website? i forsee a preservation effort in the near future to capture What This Was Like, when randall inevitably removes the menu and all its modes--there's no chance this is staying, is there? - [[User:Vaedez|Vaedez]] ([[User talk:Vaedez|talk]]) 21:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:It applies to older comics, but not other parts of the site. I'm also wondering if this might be just for April Fool's Day. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 21:27, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:: I know it's april the 1st, but could we keep the modes? Stainglass is fun when the background doesn't turn maroon (and makes the text hard to read). I also checked other pages of xkcd, the modes are on on the other comics. {{unsigned ip|2a04:cec0:121a:5180:bcf7:54ff:feb2:d55|21:31, 1 April 2026 (UTC)}}
::Of course it's the April Fools'/Fools' comic. Nice to see it being on time, this year, and I too wonder how long it'll stay. Might it permanently stay on this comic page, perhaps even stay if you jump off of it, but comic 3228 (or the 'default' latest-comic page) will probably be back to normal on Friday. [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 22:14, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Luckily, preservation is easy enough. I think you just need to save the main [https://xkcd.com/3227/5710add.js Javascript file] (which contains the CSS, and generates the necessary DOM on the fly) and the [https://xkcd.com/3227/imgs/nyoom_2x.png one image asset]. I think it should be easy enough to turn it into a UserScript if you turn the png into a data URI, or even a web extension if that's more your speed. [[User:Dratini0|Dratini0]] ([[User talk:Dratini0|talk]]) 00:12, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Finally we have the Boat Mode from the footer! [[User:B_for_brain|B for brain]] ([[User_talk:B_for_brain|talk]]) ([https://www.youtube.com/@bforbrain youtube channel] [https://bforbrain.weebly.com/ wobsite (supposed to be a blag)]) 21:33, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

'''Attention admins''' I think there's an "oops" in this line:
<nowiki>To experience the interactivity, visit the {{xkcd|{comicNum}|original comic}}!</nowiki>
[[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 21:43, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yeah, looks like this is a regression in this corner case. I should have a fix for it soon. —[[User:Theusaf|theusaf]] ([[User talk:Theusaf|talk]]) 23:41, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Has the full footer always been there? "xkcd.com is best viewed with Netscape Navigator 4.0 or below on a Pentium 3±1 emulated in Javascript on an Apple IIGS at a screen resolution of 1024x1. Please enable your ad blockers, disable high-heat drying, and remove your device from Airplane Mode and set it to Boat Mode. For security reasons, please leave caps lock on while browsing." --[[User:Chance2travel|Chance2travel]] ([[User talk:Chance2travel|talk]]) 22:30, 1 April 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, always has been. Learn more at the page for [[Footnote]]. [[Special:Contributions/104.28.215.219|104.28.215.219]] 23:17, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

I think the Dorian Greyscale Mode takes 5 minutes to complete. I see this in the Javascript: <code>body.mode-dorian-greyscale {\n transition: filter 300s ease-out;</code> [[User:Pgn674|Pgn674]] ([[User talk:Pgn674|talk]]) 22:36, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Dorian Greyscale Mode seems like it ought to use only the white keys on a standard piano, and go DEGFCDBA, with adjacent notes differing in a single bit position. [[Special:Contributions/2A02:8084:2862:4F80:65B7:327D:E614:342F|2A02:8084:2862:4F80:65B7:327D:E614:342F]] 22:56, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

I'd love to know if the modem mode's audio file decodes to anything if you try to decode it as a v.92 stream or something similar. [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:4504:D100:3BD0:B617:9D7:1C80|2603:6011:4504:D100:3BD0:B617:9D7:1C80]] 23:24, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Stained Glass Mode doesn't show title text? Might be a bug [[User:X|X]] ([[User talk:X|talk]]) 23:38, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Not gonna lie, I got nerd-sniped hard here. I thought the noise in the modem mode might be real modem noises, and I tried to demodulate it. With Gnuradio, I got to the point of guessing that it's 4FSK at 2400 baud, with a center frequency of about 1700 Hz and a frequency deviation of about 300 Hz. I couldn't find the corresponding modem standard, so I started deminifying the source code that generates it. The good news is that I was correct. It's 4FSK, 2400 baud, center frequency 1710 Hz, frequency deviation 270 Hz. The bad news? The data is Math.random(). That feels bittersweet. I saw a puzzle where there was none. I want to post the relevant snippet of deminified code. Am I allowed to do that? Is the site itself also under CC-BY-NC, or just the comics? [[User:Dratini0|Dratini0]] ([[User talk:Dratini0|talk]]) 23:58, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

Honestly, I'd love a real dark mode for xkcd.com. But one where the comic isn't inverted. Sometimes I prefer to read the comic here on explainxkcd.com since I have mediawiki settings for dark mode, but those don't invert the comic. (I don't think I can make mediawiki settings for space opera mode...) [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 00:28, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:You should be able to force a custom CSS on this site (with or without any browser-helpers, but there are ones out there that streamline/automate/augment this ability). The AFD-code is applying a full visual filter (over the top of the comic; maybe or maybe not above the mode-selection 'widget', depending upon browser implementation), but sounds like you just want to apply foreground/background inversion as priority (above anything xkcd.com normally 'suggests' via CSS/tag-attributes) to all markup, but leave the comic image (and any other images, like the thumbnails) as is. Might he tricky if any element is "black-on-transparency" image, which assumes white but now has your code turning it black behind the non-transparent black, but you could probably live with it (or make it 75% dark-grey or so?), and non-transparent black-on-white (presuming white all around it) could look strange.
:But you can't tell for sure without trying to tweak your end (or actually checking the source HTML, on the way to doing just that).
:Alternatively, maybe you can isolate the on-site code for just the Dark Mode of the entire-page treatment, modified to 'demask' the filter exactly over the limits of the comic img-rendering area. If it's been done the way I think it's been done (not gonna try to check, 'til I'm not on mobile platform myself) should be a fairly trivial job to add to the fraction of the code you 'borrow'. Or at least a learning experience, as you work out what tweaks do what. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.40|82.132.237.40]] 12:22, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
::all this has inspired me to set up a usercss to darktheme explainxkcd for me; i'm feeling very content with how this page looks for me right now. - [[User:Vaedez|Vaedez]] ([[User talk:Vaedez|talk]]) 08:07, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

I spent way too long watching screensaver mode to see if it would do anything if the comic hit a corner. [[Special:Contributions/170.142.177.145|170.142.177.145]] 00:31, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:fyi ive found that the comic panels bounce on the edges of the viewport but move with reference to page coordinates--which means if you scroll just right you can place a corner of your screen where it's going to hit, without having to wait for it to get there on its own - [[User:Vaedez|Vaedez]] ([[User talk:Vaedez|talk]]) 03:39, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

I wonder if the choice of the actual text in the comic is a reference to the Apollo 8 Christmas broadcast of Genesis, due to the Artemis II launch today... or maybe I'm overthinking it and it's simply a joke about light and dark mode. [[Special:Contributions/2601:241:8002:3E0:5CAD:3E02:93FF:FB00|2601:241:8002:3E0:5CAD:3E02:93FF:FB00]] 01:05, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:TY! I was not aware of that broadcast and it seems incredibly strange, since everything done on the mission "debunks" that passage! Apparently it was done because anything alluding to "world peace" in any way would seem like a commentary on the Vietnam War. Which, depending on one's skepticism of religion, can also seem quite ironic -now I'm overthinking, so I'll stop now. [[User:Cuvtixo|Cuvtixo]] ([[User talk:Cuvtixo|talk]]) 16:00, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

Anyone test the other April fools comics? [[User:Commercialegg|Commercialegg]] ([[User talk:Commercialegg|talk]]) 01:14, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:I tried Machine (2916) in dark mode and it just froze after the tutorial. [[User:King Pando|King Pando]] ([[User talk:King Pando|talk]]) 03:34, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

:Hoverboard (1608) becomes quite challenging in Space Opera Mode, not least because the player and the coins are invisible (at least in my antique MS Edge browser). [[Special:Contributions/74.220.129.129|74.220.129.129]] 15:26, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

I noticed using some of the modes makes xkcd.com/688 no longer self describing, not sure if its worth noting on either wiki [[User:Daunting Zebra|Daunting Zebra]] ([[User talk:Daunting Zebra|talk]]) 07:31, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

The current explanation of dark mode as 'inverting black and white pixels' isn't quite correct. For example, on [[2623]] a pale yellow colour gets flipped to black. On the other hand, other colours elsewhere are left untouched. So it must be doing 'some very light area of colour palette > black' and presumably 'some very dark area of colour palette > white'. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 11:27, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
: On [[2342]] a light khaki(?) colour gets changed to a dark grey - not even a black. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 11:29, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
: Brown sun, anyone? [[2750]] [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 11:33, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:Similar to the criteria for the Stained Glass region borders, perhaps? Sufficiently light grey (or unssaturated+light colours) do not 'edge' a given floodfill area, it seems. (See {{xkcd|1811}}, and how it floods/filters that, for example, with pre-coloured ''and'' greyscale text to compare its operational limits upon.) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.40|82.132.237.40]] 12:22, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
: It is not flipped to black. It is turned into a very dark yellow that appears closer to black than the original yellow appeared to white because it is not gamma-corrected. [[Special:Contributions/80.187.115.75|80.187.115.75]] 00:05, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
... ... I was hoping this comic would be actually fun, like ALL previous April 1 comics are... :( It would be much better if it follows its name and the standards of earlier April 1's, i.e. there is only a "dark" option and when you switch to it the story progresses and you continue to do some other things and eventually complete a full xkcd-style "creation" (a great idea!) [[Special:Contributions/203.198.86.210|203.198.86.210]] 11:43, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

unsigned comment (pretend it's April foooools) {{unsigned ip|13:27, 2 April 2026 (UTC)}}

Is nobody noticing the fact that Randall was ACTUALLY ON TIME? That's quite rare! --''''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|Converse]] 13:58, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

I wonder if any intentional "Easter eggs" were hidden inside other comic pages. [[User:Benzaldehyde|Benzaldehyde]] ([[User talk:Benzaldehyde|talk]] 17:10, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
:I tried looking up #[[880]] (the one about 3D) and sadly it has no additional easter eggs with it :( [[Special:Contributions/2407:0:3006:2959:B0A4:2347:EF39:22AE|2407:0:3006:2959:B0A4:2347:EF39:22AE]] 12:03, 3 April 2026 (UTC)

Did anyone else notice that the effect (3D, Airplane, etc.) carries over to other comics accessed by the 'Random' button?{{unsigned ip|130.76.25.40|20:25, 2 April 2026 (UTC)}}
:You can change it on any comic. The dropdown is still there. [[User:King Pando|King Pando]] ([[User talk:King Pando|talk]]) 23:09, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Spring Mode is broken on comic [https://xkcd.com/1127/ 1127]. It doesn't do anything for that one, but the other modes work. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2CD4:C200:C134:93AD:21E2:1202|2600:4040:2CD4:C200:C134:93AD:21E2:1202]] 12:35, 3 April 2026 (UTC)
: On that note, the spring mode on Earth Temperature Timeline is crazy. [[Special:Contributions/85.76.164.131|85.76.164.131]] 15:07, 4 April 2026 (UTC)
:: thank you for tipping me off about this, it's great - [[User:Vaedez|Vaedez]] ([[User talk:Vaedez|talk]]) 08:11, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

I tried watching this one render in Modem mode with the volume turned up... [[1732: Earth Temperature Timeline]] :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:52, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

Anyone else tried dark mode on comic 688 “Self-Description”? [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:52F7:9A00:F19F:5EAC:82CF:A62A|2600:4040:52F7:9A00:F19F:5EAC:82CF:A62A]] 15:00, 5 April 2026 (UTC)

In the explanation working around a human existing to ask for dark mode, I saw this as the Earth itself asking for dark mode - no humans, so that rationale isn't needed. [[User:Goodeye|Goodeye]] ([[User talk:Goodeye|talk]]) 15:51, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
it would seem that screensaver mode only actually collides with walls on the top left corner, at least on some comics[[Special:Contributions/204.113.154.68|204.113.154.68]] 14:46, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

I used all of the options on my favorite XKCD comic - the 64 states map one (2868). [[User:Strontium|Strontium]] ([[User talk:Strontium|talk]]) 20:48, 7 April 2026 (UTC)

It is now 9 April 2026 (in my timezone) and the mode option is still there on all comics. Is it a permanent feature? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:22, 8 April 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3225: Satellite Pollution

2026-03-30T22:23:17Z

Martin: how is the banner lit?

I'm surprised this isn't [[Black Hat]]'s operation [[User:RDiMartino|RDiMartino]] ([[User talk:RDiMartino|talk]]) 21:34, 27 March 2026 (UTC)
:He created the company, Cueball is Marketing. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 21:49, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Space mirrors have been in the news lately. [[Special:Contributions/2603:8081:9700:1224:0:0:0:3|2603:8081:9700:1224:0:0:0:3]] 03:50, 28 March 2026 (UTC)

As explained in https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/ this wouldn't work anyway since the banner would be moving at 7.8 km/s, or else it would need to be hung from a space-elevator-like counterweight located beyond GSO. If cueball accomplishes THAT kind of feat, I think the astronomers would be more impressed than annoyed. [[Special:Contributions/2A02:590:121B:4001:9505:CE66:9EEB:2974|2A02:590:121B:4001:9505:CE66:9EEB:2974]] 21:42, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
:Geo-stationary orbit would work though [[User:Tanner07|Tanner07]] ([[User talk:Tanner07|talk]]) 14:14, 29 March 2026 (UTC)
::For reference, the quoted 100 miles width at GEO/GSO would roughly span the Moon"s radius (''not'' even its diameter, which is the usual rule of thumb for "how big all other things in the sky look"), so would seem to be on the lower edge of being useful for bringing 'better' views of the sky it obscures (with and without advertising) to the casual Mk-1 Eyeball observer of the universe. Thus it can only really be 'useful' to the astronomers that it's in reality inconveniencing.
::Though if set at ISS level of orbit, 100 miles would be ~45 Moon-widths, slightly narrower than a paperback book held at arm's length (if I'm cross-converting my trigonometry correctly), which would conceivably have some public primary purpose, upon which the secondary purpose of making it look like the stars it is also obscuring (give or take its rapid journey across the starfield, and mis-parallaxing issues unless it has ''very'' sophisticated {{w|lenticular lens|'observer-adaptive' optics}} to directly counter this effect) might be a mitigation/sop to astronomers like the minor rejig of Starlinks was to reduce their flare-profiles. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.239.130|82.132.239.130]] 11:43, 30 March 2026 (UTC)
:7.8 km/s isn't that fast though, when viewed from down here on the surface. I love going outside in the evening to watch the ISS go by: it doesn't zoom past in the blink of an eye, it takes a few minutes to pass overhead. That's plenty long enough for a banner to be in view and to get a good look at it. If there are a couple of hundred banners in LEO you'll have lots of opportunities to see them. The real issue is power: during most of the night the banners will be completely dark because they are in Earth's shadow. How will they be illuminated? If the goal is to show fake stars, the banner will need powerful floodlights installed as "stars", so what is powering the floodlights? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:23, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

I do wonder if this is in reference to results in search engines, given the "sponsored galaxies", and the tendency to provide fake results at the top for many engines {{unsigned ip|2806:2a0:b2e:8322::edc|13:34, 30 March 2026}}

Talk:3217: Home Remedies

2026-03-10T21:23:31Z

Martin:

Wow that came out late. I guess it is still technically Monday in California? Or at least was when it came up on explain xkcd half an hour ago? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:03, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Randall lives in Boston. I suppose that there's some lag between xkcd and the explain xkcd upload, as TheusafBOT takes some time to transfer it. [[User:42.book.addict|tori :3]][[User talk:42.book.addict|talk to me!]] 16:50, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Very late comic [[User:Broseph|Broseph]] ([[User talk:Broseph|talk]]) 08:13, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Even later explanation. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:30, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

For anyone perhaps wondering how you get a skunk with a hangover, all you need to do is find one of them that is {{wiktionary|drunk as a skunk|famously inebriated}}, then wait. The chewing gum bit probably 'just happens' at some point during this whole process... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.231.180|82.132.231.180]] 10:40, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Unrelated but I had a dream that I checked this website and it was Randall announcing he was going to quit, just text on a white panel as the final comic, not too dissimilar to Schultz quitting Peanuts. It felt shockingly realistic [[Special:Contributions/168.8.230.58|168.8.230.58]] 12:59, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Charles Schultz died on February 12, 2000, the day before his last Sunday strip was published. He might have realized his health was failing and decided to retire while he still had a choice in the matter. The weekday/Saturday edition of Peanuts had its last original strip on January 3, 2000.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_M._Schulz][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanuts] [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 18:29, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

The set-up with the competitor stations and the hidden 'ingredients' is very similar to the mystery challenge in the Great British Bake-off (though they seem to have drawers where the ovens would be) - not sure whether it's specific enough to include in the explanation though. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 15:35, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

It looks like White Hat's skunk either hasn't woken up yet or has a much less nasty hangover than the other two. [[Special:Contributions/2001:1C02:1A9D:9700:D9C6:625B:47D6:8BE3|2001:1C02:1A9D:9700:D9C6:625B:47D6:8BE3]] 15:50, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Or it has a much ''worse'' hangover, to the point where it can't contemplate moving. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 17:17, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Or something to do with gender/hormones as the other 2 skunks are agitated near females (coincidence in an XKCD strip? I don't think so.) OTOH a much more likely explanation in the context of XKCD is simply White Hat's natural unorthodox luck and/or behavior. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 17:43, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

"[…], but that person must be ''a'' grandparent" does ''not'' imply the contestants may not call anyone else but ''their grandparents''. And since many people are grandparents, this means they may call any of them. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C05:F300:5825:EE15:4B0B:B964|2001:4C4E:1C05:F300:5825:EE15:4B0B:B964]] 17:39, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Yes, any grandparent will do. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:23, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

We don't know the rules of the game, and the host did not state clear instructions on what's to do. Thus _my_ "home remedy" would simply be to take the box as-is and move it out of the premises, whereever that be (e.g. the game show place). Problem solved. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 17:47, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: I wouldn't even take the box. Just leave it there and step away. Not my problem. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:22, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

I need my things returned, so that it isn't just about resetting the property-churn. I also need privacy for communication, which I more or less had before without breaking the arrangement. I'll need other things after those.[[Special:Contributions/209.133.116.39|209.133.116.39]] 19:23, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3217: Home Remedies

2026-03-10T21:22:29Z

Martin:

Wow that came out late. I guess it is still technically Monday in California? Or at least was when it came up on explain xkcd half an hour ago? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:03, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Randall lives in Boston. I suppose that there's some lag between xkcd and the explain xkcd upload, as TheusafBOT takes some time to transfer it. [[User:42.book.addict|tori :3]][[User talk:42.book.addict|talk to me!]] 16:50, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Very late comic [[User:Broseph|Broseph]] ([[User talk:Broseph|talk]]) 08:13, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Even later explanation. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:30, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

For anyone perhaps wondering how you get a skunk with a hangover, all you need to do is find one of them that is {{wiktionary|drunk as a skunk|famously inebriated}}, then wait. The chewing gum bit probably 'just happens' at some point during this whole process... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.231.180|82.132.231.180]] 10:40, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Unrelated but I had a dream that I checked this website and it was Randall announcing he was going to quit, just text on a white panel as the final comic, not too dissimilar to Schultz quitting Peanuts. It felt shockingly realistic [[Special:Contributions/168.8.230.58|168.8.230.58]] 12:59, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
:Charles Schultz died on February 12, 2000, the day before his last Sunday strip was published. He might have realized his health was failing and decided to retire while he still had a choice in the matter. The weekday/Saturday edition of Peanuts had its last original strip on January 3, 2000.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_M._Schulz][https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peanuts] [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 18:29, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

The set-up with the competitor stations and the hidden 'ingredients' is very similar to the mystery challenge in the Great British Bake-off (though they seem to have drawers where the ovens would be) - not sure whether it's specific enough to include in the explanation though. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 15:35, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

It looks like White Hat's skunk either hasn't woken up yet or has a much less nasty hangover than the other two. [[Special:Contributions/2001:1C02:1A9D:9700:D9C6:625B:47D6:8BE3|2001:1C02:1A9D:9700:D9C6:625B:47D6:8BE3]] 15:50, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Or it has a much ''worse'' hangover, to the point where it can't contemplate moving. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 17:17, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: Or something to do with gender/hormones as the other 2 skunks are agitated near females (coincidence in an XKCD strip? I don't think so.) OTOH a much more likely explanation in the context of XKCD is simply White Hat's natural unorthodox luck and/or behavior. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 17:43, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

"[…], but that person must be ''a'' grandparent" does ''not'' imply the contestants may not call anyone else but ''their grandparents''. And since many people are grandparents, this means they may call any of them. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C05:F300:5825:EE15:4B0B:B964|2001:4C4E:1C05:F300:5825:EE15:4B0B:B964]] 17:39, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

We don't know the rules of the game, and the host did not state clear instructions on what's to do. Thus _my_ "home remedy" would simply be to take the box as-is and move it out of the premises, whereever that be (e.g. the game show place). Problem solved. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 17:47, 10 March 2026 (UTC)
: I wouldn't even take the box. Just leave it there and step away. Not my problem. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:22, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

I need my things returned, so that it isn't just about resetting the property-churn. I also need privacy for communication, which I more or less had before without breaking the arrangement. I'll need other things after those.[[Special:Contributions/209.133.116.39|209.133.116.39]] 19:23, 10 March 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3213: Dental Formulas

2026-03-02T21:01:16Z

Martin: platypus

First![[User:AmethystSky14|AmethystSky14]] ([[User talk:AmethystSky14|talk]]) 21:43, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

The top left drawing is a tooth. [[User:Xkdvd|Xkdvd]] ([[User talk:Xkdvd|talk]]) 22:04, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

This confused me for a long time (partly due to the mammal/mammol thing) - I took them to be dentists. I'm now inferring that the counts are typical of a species rather than descriptive of an individual patient. Maybe the write up could make that more clear in case someone else as dumb as me passes by [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23EE:10C8:110F:D992:D45:1C7A:DF02|2A00:23EE:10C8:110F:D992:D45:1C7A:DF02]] guest
:"in case someone as dumb as me passes by" - that would be everyone, see ''<nowiki>Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.</nowiki>'' [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 22:21, 27 February 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, dental formulas are based on typical, not individual, dentition. In cases where it frequently varies (like humans with their unreliable wisdom teeth) you sometimes see a range. [[Special:Contributions/70.40.90.209|70.40.90.209]] 02:29, 28 February 2026 (UTC)

Because I'm sure someone else will be wondering, based on a very cursory search, the formula on the board appears to be permanent teeth for felines. At the very least, Wikipedia's entry on Dentition lists this formula for cats, lions, and tigers. Perhaps an actual expert will come along and shed further light on this. [[Special:Contributions/97.116.61.145|97.116.61.145]] 22:52, 27 February 2026 (UTC)

Some British sources still use a baseline dot (full stop/period) as the multiplication symbol and a midline dot (interpunct) as the decimal point. These sources could write 3.2·1 = 6·3. Scary. Even ''The Lancet'' uses the interpunct as a decimal point (though its style guides do not specify a multiplication symbol, so presumably '×' should be used when juxtaposition isn't an option, e.g. for scientific notation). Most British schools still teach it this way as well, where the dot product is always a baseline dot. (This convention also used in some other European countries, which use the comma as the decimal separator and the period as the thousands separator. But it's confusing, because 〈x,y〉or even (x,y) is also used to represent the inner product of x and y. It's really a mess.) [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 04:36, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
:I didn't know it was called the interpunct but that was how I was taught to write decimal points at my UK school in the early sixties and how I still write them by hand.--[[Special:Contributions/2A00:23CC:D248:8901:30F4:4052:A4F7:386E|2A00:23CC:D248:8901:30F4:4052:A4F7:386E]] 09:36, 28 February 2026 (UTC)
:And some countries use interpuncts for multiplying scalars, baseline dots (interchangeably with spaces, but never both in a single number) for thousands, and commas as decimal symbol. There are languages that even include group separation ''after'' the latter, with a 4-digit final group iff the last digit is the 10-3''n''-1s place (e. g. "3 863 387,274 479 0001" instead of "3 863 387,274 479 000 1"), even with several exceptions (e. g. rules like "4-digit numbers do not require formatting, '''unless they are in a table with longer numbers in the same column'''"). [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C00:EB00:D063:D715:3937:44C6|2001:4C4E:1C00:EB00:D063:D715:3937:44C6]] 11:42, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

An unrelated note, I'm just curious, does any beast have more than 1 canine? or is the second number limited to the set {0, 1}? -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 09:31, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Fun Fact: The {{w|São Tomé collared fruit bat}} is the only known mammal where the whole population has an asymmetrical dental formula. --[[Special:Contributions/134.102.219.31|134.102.219.31]] 18:51, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Although "mammals in general" have breasts not all do. The platypus is a mammal and does produce milk to feed its young, however it has no nipples. Instead an area of skin "leaks" (secretes) milk into the fur. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:01, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3211: Amperage

2026-02-25T05:52:27Z

Martin: two circuits?!

Seems like this would be at least tangentially related to the Cursed Connectors series, although it's just the outlets and cords this time. [[User:Zakator|Zakator]] ([[User talk:Zakator|talk]]) 05:51, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I would assume that this is related to styropyro's latest video? [[Special:Contributions/142.126.42.193|142.126.42.193]] 05:59, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I’ll second the comment about the new styropyro video; it seems very likely that it inspired Randall to make this comic and is probably worth a mention. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A|2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A]] 07:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I think that's very likely - in literally every single group of nerds (eg xkcd-adjacent) I've seen people talking about it. I'd be very, very surprised if he hasn't at all seen it[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

200 amps is NOT "an amount of electricity power"; The amp is a unit of electrical current, from which power can be derived by multiplying by voltage.[[Special:Contributions/2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD|2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD]] 07:41, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

The current explanation seems to assume that Cueball is aware in advance of some of the problems his scheme is likely to cause, and is trying to forestall them. That seems unlikely - it's Cueball after all. It's far more likely that he has ''already'' melted all his wiring (and ruined his carpet), but just considers that a new engineering challenge to overcome. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

It is amusing or instructional to consider how residential wiring would be engineered if the equipment and circuits were designed with a system that supplied constant current rather than constant voltage. Long ago carbon-arc streetlights were all wired in series and run at perhaps 6 or 8 amps. The "failure" mode is not a short circuit but an open circuit. Protective devices close the offending open. Perhaps Cueball would like to explore such a system, running megavolts at 500 amps, unless he already has. [[Special:Contributions/173.188.198.217|173.188.198.217]] 12:56, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I understand the theory of it, and it clearly doesn't cause any more electrical fires than home run circuits, but the UK's 32A ring circuits on 14 gauge wire will always make me raise an eyebrow. [[Special:Contributions/64.135.140.145|64.135.140.145]] 13:36, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:The US's pathetically wimpy system always raises an eyebrow for me. No wonder Cueball felt the need to upgrade his house. I would also be frustrated by not being able to run a kettle and a toaster on the same circuit simultaneously. No tea and no toast?? Sacrilege! [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:: >"frustrated by not being able to run a kettle and a toaster on the same circuit simultaneously." Why must it be the same circuit? The US NEC code calls for TWO 20A circuits in kitchen/pantry. US market kettles are, in your opinion, underpowered, 1500 Watts (or less!), so as to run comfortably on even legacy 15A circuits. The toaster goes on the other kitchen circuit. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 00:52, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
:::Wow, two circuits are mandated?! That goes to show how dire the situation is with their limited available power. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:52, 25 February 2026 (UTC)
: 2.5mm2 is actually more closer to a 13 gauge (which corresponds to 2.6mm2), and with it being in a ring so electricity has two ways to go it's more closer to what a 12 gauge (3.3mm2) would be able to hold. [[User:Sztupy|Sztupy]] ([[User talk:Sztupy|talk]]) 22:48, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

xkcd is a good distractor from everything that's going on with the world. Thanks, Randall! --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|Converse]] (BLM) 13:57, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Retired electrical engineer from a power distribution manufacturer here... The resistance in the wires doesn't increase all that much with increasing current. The increase in heat generated is proportional to the amount of current flowing through the wires. Double the current and the heat generated doubles. Go from 15 amps to 500 amps and the heat generated by the resistance in the wires increases about 33 times. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799|2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799]] 17:10, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:Isn't heat generated proportional to current squared? or is that resistance. maybe im tripping[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
::Power lost as heat is determined by voltage drop in the line times current [P=IV] and since voltage drop equals current times resistance [V=IR] then heat is determined by resistance times current-squared [P=I*(IR)], so half current makes one quarter of the heat.[[Special:Contributions/57.140.28.40|57.140.28.40]] 18:19, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

120V AC at 15A would not be 1800W. 120V DC would, but the AC power is a sine wave, so to get the overall average power you need to divide by the square root of two. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11|2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11]] 17:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

To commenter above: 120V in the US is RMS voltage, so it's already divided.

To original poster: "and inside his appliances and start a fire, even if there is no fault"
Unless the appliance itself is drawing more than it's rated for (e.g. 15 or 20A (unlikely)) there's no reason the appliance's internal wiring would disintegrate because it's on a 500A circuit.
:Absolutely correct. Appliances are designed with appropriate internal wiring, so if the appliance is drawing 500A the appliance can handle 500A. The cord from outlet to appliance is the issue here, as Cueball has already mentioned. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I'm assuming the "cords" cueball refers to are extension cords (which are themselves overloaded) vs. appliance cords which shouldn't have any problem unless the appliance was already suffering some kind of short.
[[Special:Contributions/74.76.64.197|74.76.64.197]]

Could this perhaps be a reference to [[3198: Double-Pronged Extension Cord]]? [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 21:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

There is nothing in the comic to suggest the internal wall wiring is melting or catching fire. I think we can assume Cueball has upgraded the internal wall wiring to match the breaker upgrades. Cueball is only enquiring about cords which don't catch fire, and "cords" are the external extension leads. Cueball doesn't say anything about internal wall issues. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:30, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

TL;DR this is a setup that would make Tim Taylor (from the sitcom {{w|Home Improvement (TV Series)|Home Improvement}}) jealous. [[Special:Contributions/2603:6011:853A:4DDA:3F9A:6297:AF9E:2340|2603:6011:853A:4DDA:3F9A:6297:AF9E:2340]] 04:43, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

== 1000 MCM copper wire ==

I think 1000 MCM copper wire would be sufficient for the cords: https://www.cerrowire.com/products/resources/tables-calculators/ampacity-charts/ https://nassaunationalcable.com/products/1000-mcm-thhn-thwn-2-stranded-copper-building-wire
[[Special:Contributions/2600:6C54:4E00:99C:67B7:D578:30ED:2471|2600:6C54:4E00:99C:67B7:D578:30ED:2471]] 04:42, 25 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3211: Amperage

2026-02-24T22:30:36Z

Martin: external, not internal

Seems like this would be at least tangentially related to the Cursed Connectors series, although it's just the outlets and cords this time. [[User:Zakator|Zakator]] ([[User talk:Zakator|talk]]) 05:51, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I would assume that this is related to styropyro's latest video? [[Special:Contributions/142.126.42.193|142.126.42.193]] 05:59, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I’ll second the comment about the new styropyro video; it seems very likely that it inspired Randall to make this comic and is probably worth a mention. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A|2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A]] 07:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I think that's very likely - in literally every single group of nerds (eg xkcd-adjacent) I've seen people talking about it. I'd be very, very surprised if he hasn't at all seen it[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

200 amps is NOT "an amount of electricity power"; The amp is a unit of electrical current, from which power can be derived by multiplying by voltage.[[Special:Contributions/2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD|2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD]] 07:41, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

The current explanation seems to assume that Cueball is aware in advance of some of the problems his scheme is likely to cause, and is trying to forestall them. That seems unlikely - it's Cueball after all. It's far more likely that he has ''already'' melted all his wiring (and ruined his carpet), but just considers that a new engineering challenge to overcome. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

It is amusing or instructional to consider how residential wiring would be engineered if the equipment and circuits were designed with a system that supplied constant current rather than constant voltage. Long ago carbon-arc streetlights were all wired in series and run at perhaps 6 or 8 amps. The "failure" mode is not a short circuit but an open circuit. Protective devices close the offending open. Perhaps Cueball would like to explore such a system, running megavolts at 500 amps, unless he already has. [[Special:Contributions/173.188.198.217|173.188.198.217]] 12:56, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I understand the theory of it, and it clearly doesn't cause any more electrical fires than home run circuits, but the UK's 32A ring circuits on 14 gauge wire will always make me raise an eyebrow. [[Special:Contributions/64.135.140.145|64.135.140.145]] 13:36, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:The US's pathetically wimpy system always raises an eyebrow for me. No wonder Cueball felt the need to upgrade his house. I would also be frustrated by not being able to run a kettle and a toaster on the same circuit simultaneously. No tea and no toast?? Sacrilege! [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

xkcd is a good distractor from everything that's going on with the world. Thanks, Randall! --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|Converse]] (BLM) 13:57, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Retired electrical engineer from a power distribution manufacturer here... The resistance in the wires doesn't increase all that much with increasing current. The increase in heat generated is proportional to the amount of current flowing through the wires. Double the current and the heat generated doubles. Go from 15 amps to 500 amps and the heat generated by the resistance in the wires increases about 33 times. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799|2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799]] 17:10, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:Isn't heat generated proportional to current squared? or is that resistance. maybe im tripping[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
::Power lost as heat is determined by voltage drop in the line times current [P=IV] and since voltage drop equals current times resistance [V=IR] then heat is determined by resistance times current-squared [P=I*(IR)], so half current makes one quarter of the heat.[[Special:Contributions/57.140.28.40|57.140.28.40]] 18:19, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

120V AC at 15A would not be 1800W. 120V DC would, but the AC power is a sine wave, so to get the overall average power you need to divide by the square root of two. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11|2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11]] 17:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

To commenter above: 120V in the US is RMS voltage, so it's already divided.

To original poster: "and inside his appliances and start a fire, even if there is no fault"
Unless the appliance itself is drawing more than it's rated for (e.g. 15 or 20A (unlikely)) there's no reason the appliance's internal wiring would disintegrate because it's on a 500A circuit.
:Absolutely correct. Appliances are designed with appropriate internal wiring, so if the appliance is drawing 500A the appliance can handle 500A. The cord from outlet to appliance is the issue here, as Cueball has already mentioned. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I'm assuming the "cords" cueball refers to are extension cords (which are themselves overloaded) vs. appliance cords which shouldn't have any problem unless the appliance was already suffering some kind of short.
[[Special:Contributions/74.76.64.197|74.76.64.197]]

Could this perhaps be a reference to [[3198: Double-Pronged Extension Cord]]? [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 21:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

There is nothing in the comic to suggest the internal wall wiring is melting or catching fire. I think we can assume Cueball has upgraded the internal wall wiring to match the breaker upgrades. Cueball is only enquiring about cords which don't catch fire, and "cords" are the external extension leads. Cueball doesn't say anything about internal wall issues. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:30, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3211: Amperage

2026-02-24T22:21:04Z

Martin: replies

Seems like this would be at least tangentially related to the Cursed Connectors series, although it's just the outlets and cords this time. [[User:Zakator|Zakator]] ([[User talk:Zakator|talk]]) 05:51, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I would assume that this is related to styropyro's latest video? [[Special:Contributions/142.126.42.193|142.126.42.193]] 05:59, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I’ll second the comment about the new styropyro video; it seems very likely that it inspired Randall to make this comic and is probably worth a mention. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A|2607:FB91:829C:47BD:C826:B8DB:5A5E:913A]] 07:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
: I think that's very likely - in literally every single group of nerds (eg xkcd-adjacent) I've seen people talking about it. I'd be very, very surprised if he hasn't at all seen it[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

200 amps is NOT "an amount of electricity power"; The amp is a unit of electrical current, from which power can be derived by multiplying by voltage.[[Special:Contributions/2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD|2001:8003:7087:E602:3CBE:B25:5BFC:61BD]] 07:41, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

The current explanation seems to assume that Cueball is aware in advance of some of the problems his scheme is likely to cause, and is trying to forestall them. That seems unlikely - it's Cueball after all. It's far more likely that he has ''already'' melted all his wiring (and ruined his carpet), but just considers that a new engineering challenge to overcome. [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

It is amusing or instructional to consider how residential wiring would be engineered if the equipment and circuits were designed with a system that supplied constant current rather than constant voltage. Long ago carbon-arc streetlights were all wired in series and run at perhaps 6 or 8 amps. The "failure" mode is not a short circuit but an open circuit. Protective devices close the offending open. Perhaps Cueball would like to explore such a system, running megavolts at 500 amps, unless he already has. [[Special:Contributions/173.188.198.217|173.188.198.217]] 12:56, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I understand the theory of it, and it clearly doesn't cause any more electrical fires than home run circuits, but the UK's 32A ring circuits on 14 gauge wire will always make me raise an eyebrow. [[Special:Contributions/64.135.140.145|64.135.140.145]] 13:36, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:The US's pathetically wimpy system always raises an eyebrow for me. No wonder Cueball felt the need to upgrade his house. I would also be frustrated by not being able to run a kettle and a toaster on the same circuit simultaneously. No tea and no toast?? Sacrilege! [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

xkcd is a good distractor from everything that's going on with the world. Thanks, Randall! --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|DollarStoreBa'al]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|Converse]] (BLM) 13:57, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Retired electrical engineer from a power distribution manufacturer here... The resistance in the wires doesn't increase all that much with increasing current. The increase in heat generated is proportional to the amount of current flowing through the wires. Double the current and the heat generated doubles. Go from 15 amps to 500 amps and the heat generated by the resistance in the wires increases about 33 times. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799|2600:1702:7A0:8230:9DBF:A415:F8AF:7799]] 17:10, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
:Isn't heat generated proportional to current squared? or is that resistance. maybe im tripping[[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:28, 24 February 2026 (UTC)
::Power lost as heat is determined by voltage drop in the line times current [P=IV] and since voltage drop equals current times resistance [V=IR] then heat is determined by resistance times current-squared [P=I*(IR)], so half current makes one quarter of the heat.[[Special:Contributions/57.140.28.40|57.140.28.40]] 18:19, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

120V AC at 15A would not be 1800W. 120V DC would, but the AC power is a sine wave, so to get the overall average power you need to divide by the square root of two. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11|2600:1009:B1AC:BBBB:1D51:D689:1D5F:6A11]] 17:50, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

To commenter above: 120V in the US is RMS voltage, so it's already divided.

To original poster: "and inside his appliances and start a fire, even if there is no fault"
Unless the appliance itself is drawing more than it's rated for (e.g. 15 or 20A (unlikely)) there's no reason the appliance's internal wiring would disintegrate because it's on a 500A circuit.
:Absolutely correct. Appliances are designed with appropriate internal wiring, so if the appliance is drawing 500A the appliance can handle 500A. The cord from outlet to appliance is the issue here, as Cueball has already mentioned. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:21, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

I'm assuming the "cords" cueball refers to are extension cords (which are themselves overloaded) vs. appliance cords which shouldn't have any problem unless the appliance was already suffering some kind of short.
[[Special:Contributions/74.76.64.197|74.76.64.197]]

Could this perhaps be a reference to [[3198: Double-Pronged Extension Cord]]? [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 21:06, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3204: Dinosaurs And Non-Dinosaurs

2026-02-08T22:16:18Z

Martin: falcon or not?

I don't think that's a stork. My guess would be that it's a heron.
The bird in the lower right also looks like some sort of shorebird, but I've got no clue. {{unsigned ip|99.26.146.61|19:45, 6 February 2026 (UTC)}}

:I changed egret to heron. If there is some distinguishing feature in the outline that makes it clear that this an egret, as compared to the more general heron, please document (either in explanation or comments). [[Special:Contributions/107.77.205.200|107.77.205.200]] 19:02, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

I feel like this comic should be in the explanation https://xkcd.com/1211/
[[Special:Contributions/2600:4041:2E5:B900:66D3:74AD:D92D:356B|2600:4041:2E5:B900:66D3:74AD:D92D:356B]] 20:36, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Could it have a brief layman's explanation of how/why the top right *aren't* dinosaurs? Y'know beyond just "well, technically..."
[[Special:Contributions/91.84.189.119|91.84.189.119]] 06:52, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:They are not dinosaurs because dinosaurs are only a subgroup of prehistoric animals living on land. Others are flying or underwater reptiles (don’t know the real names of those), or just plain reptiles who have existed (as a group) for far longer. Dinos are technically named „land reptiles“, but are not reptiles. It’s a bit confusing and this is where my half knowledge ends
[[Special:Contributions/2A00:1E:82C2:D401:F4A3:23F3:8A2D:63B1|2A00:1E:82C2:D401:F4A3:23F3:8A2D:63B1]] 09:33, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

There is a claim bicycles are not living creatures, but I think we may need a citation. Policeman MacCruiskeen. [[Special:Contributions/80.41.29.9|80.41.29.9]] 14:54, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

::Saying “dinosaurs are not reptiles” isn’t true, but more importantly is a strange thing to say in a scientific context. If you are using “reptile” informally, then the definition of one is fuzzy anyways. If using it cladistically, then reptile pretty much means “sauropsid” which includes dinosaurs and thus birds, which are not informally/traditionally included, so you might as well use the less ambiguous term “sauropsid”. [[User:Terdragontra|Terdragontra]] ([[User talk:Terdragontra|talk]]) 15:46, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:::Yeah, the common definition of reptiles doesn't match a single evolutionary group, as crocodiles are more closely related to dinosaurs, and thus birds, than they are to lizards. Turtles separated earlier, so are equally related to both of those groups. To answer the original point, dinosaurs are defined as all the animals descended from a certain common ancestor, which they only relatively recently realized includes birds, and not just some long extinct animals known only from fossils. There are aome other animals also known only from fossils in the same time period that the general public often mistakenly thinks are dinosaurs, but are not closely related to them, being closer to other groups of living animals.--[[Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B12D:723E:FCD9:2B70:1145:6A44|2600:100A:B12D:723E:FCD9:2B70:1145:6A44]] 07:26, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Did anyone else think that "Pseudo-such" things were a made up thing for staplers? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 13:36, 7 February 2026 (UTC

I’m interested at the things somewhere on the boundaries. Some basal forms are sometimes included as dinosaurs and sometimes just outside the clade. And som nonbird dinosaurs are somewhat birdlike, and shoebills feel more dinosaury than the average bird (while hummingbirds feel less so). [[User:Terdragontra|Terdragontra]] ([[User talk:Terdragontra|talk]]) 15:48, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
: The bird which feels the most dinosaury to me is definitely the cassowary. I think Randall could have included it in the top-left quadrant. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:11, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

What bird is in the lower right of the Are dinosuars, but don't seem like dinousaurs box?
Currently the explanation says "falcon" - not clear why somebody thought it was a falcon.
Whatever ID we give, should have some explanation.
The wings look not as long front to back as a falcon. It also lacks a falcons spread tail (which can be tucked in or course). Also lacks the hooked beak typical of a falcon.
The long narrow wings suggest a relatively long distance flyer.
: The short neck is falcony though. I just googled "birds of prey silhouettes" and falcon looks very plausible to me. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:16, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

It lacks the split tail typical of a swallow or swift.
The beak isn't long enough for an albatross or similar. Gulls typically have bigger beak and rounded head.
A {{w|petrel}} is my current best guess. A tern, shearwater or skua also seem possible. [[Special:Contributions/107.77.205.200|107.77.205.200]] 19:36, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
:I would have gone with describing it as a generic gull. Which would be wrong, in its own way, but at least not as wrong as 'seagull' ;) [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 20:46, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3204: Dinosaurs And Non-Dinosaurs

2026-02-08T22:11:16Z

Martin: cassowary!

I don't think that's a stork. My guess would be that it's a heron.
The bird in the lower right also looks like some sort of shorebird, but I've got no clue. {{unsigned ip|99.26.146.61|19:45, 6 February 2026 (UTC)}}

:I changed egret to heron. If there is some distinguishing feature in the outline that makes it clear that this an egret, as compared to the more general heron, please document (either in explanation or comments). [[Special:Contributions/107.77.205.200|107.77.205.200]] 19:02, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

I feel like this comic should be in the explanation https://xkcd.com/1211/
[[Special:Contributions/2600:4041:2E5:B900:66D3:74AD:D92D:356B|2600:4041:2E5:B900:66D3:74AD:D92D:356B]] 20:36, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Could it have a brief layman's explanation of how/why the top right *aren't* dinosaurs? Y'know beyond just "well, technically..."
[[Special:Contributions/91.84.189.119|91.84.189.119]] 06:52, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:They are not dinosaurs because dinosaurs are only a subgroup of prehistoric animals living on land. Others are flying or underwater reptiles (don’t know the real names of those), or just plain reptiles who have existed (as a group) for far longer. Dinos are technically named „land reptiles“, but are not reptiles. It’s a bit confusing and this is where my half knowledge ends
[[Special:Contributions/2A00:1E:82C2:D401:F4A3:23F3:8A2D:63B1|2A00:1E:82C2:D401:F4A3:23F3:8A2D:63B1]] 09:33, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

There is a claim bicycles are not living creatures, but I think we may need a citation. Policeman MacCruiskeen. [[Special:Contributions/80.41.29.9|80.41.29.9]] 14:54, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

::Saying “dinosaurs are not reptiles” isn’t true, but more importantly is a strange thing to say in a scientific context. If you are using “reptile” informally, then the definition of one is fuzzy anyways. If using it cladistically, then reptile pretty much means “sauropsid” which includes dinosaurs and thus birds, which are not informally/traditionally included, so you might as well use the less ambiguous term “sauropsid”. [[User:Terdragontra|Terdragontra]] ([[User talk:Terdragontra|talk]]) 15:46, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

:::Yeah, the common definition of reptiles doesn't match a single evolutionary group, as crocodiles are more closely related to dinosaurs, and thus birds, than they are to lizards. Turtles separated earlier, so are equally related to both of those groups. To answer the original point, dinosaurs are defined as all the animals descended from a certain common ancestor, which they only relatively recently realized includes birds, and not just some long extinct animals known only from fossils. There are aome other animals also known only from fossils in the same time period that the general public often mistakenly thinks are dinosaurs, but are not closely related to them, being closer to other groups of living animals.--[[Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B12D:723E:FCD9:2B70:1145:6A44|2600:100A:B12D:723E:FCD9:2B70:1145:6A44]] 07:26, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

Did anyone else think that "Pseudo-such" things were a made up thing for staplers? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 13:36, 7 February 2026 (UTC

I’m interested at the things somewhere on the boundaries. Some basal forms are sometimes included as dinosaurs and sometimes just outside the clade. And som nonbird dinosaurs are somewhat birdlike, and shoebills feel more dinosaury than the average bird (while hummingbirds feel less so). [[User:Terdragontra|Terdragontra]] ([[User talk:Terdragontra|talk]]) 15:48, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
: The bird which feels the most dinosaury to me is definitely the cassowary. I think Randall could have included it in the top-left quadrant. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:11, 8 February 2026 (UTC)

What bird is in the lower right of the Are dinosuars, but don't seem like dinousaurs box?
Currently the explanation says "falcon" - not clear why somebody thought it was a falcon.
Whatever ID we give, should have some explanation.
The wings look not as long front to back as a falcon. It also lacks a falcons spread tail (which can be tucked in or course). Also lacks the hooked beak typical of a falcon.
The long narrow wings suggest a relatively long distance flyer.

It lacks the split tail typical of a swallow or swift.
The beak isn't long enough for an albatross or similar. Gulls typically have bigger beak and rounded head.
A {{w|petrel}} is my current best guess. A tern, shearwater or skua also seem possible. [[Special:Contributions/107.77.205.200|107.77.205.200]] 19:36, 7 February 2026 (UTC)
:I would have gone with describing it as a generic gull. Which would be wrong, in its own way, but at least not as wrong as 'seagull' ;) [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 20:46, 7 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3202: Groundhog Day Meaning

2026-02-02T21:25:36Z

Martin: Questioning the rodent's longevity.

I guess it's weirdest because it has two silly associations. But Talk Like a Pirate Day is arguably weirder than either of them. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:50, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

Even Stargate SG-1 had a timeloop episode and dropped a Groundhog Day reference in.

: Malikai: Once I've correctly deciphered the symbols on the altar, I will be able to master the time device.

: Jack O'Neill: Why, so you can be king of Groundhog Day?

Damn I miss that show. [[Special:Contributions/135.84.57.36|135.84.57.36]] 17:06, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

third [[Special:Contributions/164.58.172.158|164.58.172.158]] 17:12, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

It’s curious to see Black Hat being the one who is nonplussed here. Usually he’s the one shocking everyone else with surreal statements and antics. [[User:Pie Guy|Pie Guy]] ([[User talk:Pie Guy|talk]]) 17:28, 2 February 2026 (UTC)
:Yeah I was wondering about that too. Why [[Black Hat]] instead of a more normal character like [[Megan]]? Contrary to his usual behavior, Black Hat isn't doing anything evil here! [[User:DKMell|DKMell]] ([[User talk:DKMell|talk]]) 19:34, 2 February 2026 (UTC)
::I was thinking it might be because of comic 2174, where it heavily implies Black Hat comes from a different planet. Maybe he still doesn't have all of our holidays and cultures figured out yet? Sounds like a bit of a stretch, but I think it's a fun interpretation, and what I'm going with it. [[User:Willintendo|Willintendo]] ([[User talk:Willintendo|talk]]) 20:24, 2 February 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, that legit freaked me out. I like Willintendo's interpretation, though.[[Special:Contributions/104.32.72.95|104.32.72.95]] 21:02, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

Help, I'm stuck in a time loop. But at least it's going to be sunny for the forseeable future. [[Special:Contributions/76.187.17.7|76.187.17.7]] 18:29, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

We should possibly mention Candlemas and the German traditions surrounding Badgers seeing shadows. [[Special:Contributions/80.41.29.9|80.41.29.9]] 18:34, 2 February 2026 (UTC)
:Badger badger badger badger? [[User:Lordpishky|Lord Pishky]] ([[User talk:Lordpishky|talk]]) 20:05, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

;¿How is it that the whole body resets except the brain?

Oftentimes, the loop resets after death. If death is from an head-injury, ¿how does the brain restore without loosing memories or function? {{unsigned ip|67.174.239.209|19:44, 2 February 2026 (UTC)}}

I'm sure i read this comic yesterday? [[Special:Contributions/89.242.150.153|89.242.150.153]] 20:18, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

The specific individual ground squirrel in Pennsylvania most people agreed to standardize on is now 139 years old. Even Wikipedia confirms the official Phil has been the same forecasting beast since 1887. Personally I'm a little unsure, I wonder if perhaps there may have been some substitutions along the way, however I cannot find any references to that happening... maybe I'm just too untrusting? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:25, 2 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3201: Proof Without Content

2026-02-01T21:21:14Z

Martin: reply to joke

First. Would be funny to have an explanation along the lines of "It is possible to give an explanation with no content. Here's how:" [[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:44, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

Proof without Content seems to be a play of words for [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_without_words]Proof without Words

The comic pokes fun at a common situation found in mathematics books. The students sees a statement with a very short proof that doesn't make sense since it's been summarized in a way that is helpful for people already familiar with the theorem. For instance: "prime numbers larger than 2 are odd". Proof: "even numbers are divisible by 2". The student is expected to know that a number divisible by 2 is not prime, but that's most likely something that comes up later in the same book, or sometimes not explained at all.
In the comic the "short" proof is taken to the absurd level of being completely empty. What mathematical statement can be proven with a completely empty proof? The fact that there exists comics which have statements with empty proofs. It is both a joke about difficult to understand proof in math books and also a meta-mathematics joke as the proof is talking about itself.
The title text pokes even more fun at maths books where many important theorems are stated and are given to the students as useful facts but with no proof, stating that demonstrating the truth of the statement is so easy it is "left as an exercise for the reader". This common scenario frustrates students because in some cases the "exercise" is extremely difficult to do.
The only "proof without content of a conjecture without content" is a blank page altogether, which clearly exists, so the statement is true, even if meaningless.
:I don't recall that problem with such a proof. Usually the statement about primes being odd comes after giving the definition of prime and composite numbers. From that, being divisible by 2 clearly makes a number composite. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 19:31, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:: A number being divisible by two proves that a number that is not two is composite. You still have to prove that the number you first thought of is not two.[[Special:Contributions/76.180.39.133|76.180.39.133]] 05:02, 1 February 2026 (UTC)
::You must be very smart. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:2120:5880:C885:5DAF:EFD8:EADF|2600:1700:2120:5880:C885:5DAF:EFD8:EADF]] 22:12, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

I really do not get that title text. I put an attempt at understanding it down but it may have gone over my head [[User:R128|R128]] ([[User talk:R128|talk]]) 17:58, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

The comic demonstrates a proof without content, but is it a convincing proof? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 19:33, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:If it is, then yes. QED. ;) [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 21:14, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

I think the tautological nature of the proof could be better explained. If the blank image is interpreted as a correct proof, it proves the notion that a blank image can prove a conjecture. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4041:2E5:B900:6C41:5AFB:89D1:F216|2600:4041:2E5:B900:6C41:5AFB:89D1:F216]] 22:11, 30 January 2026 (UTC)

Isn't this proof using circular reasoning? The proof is only convincing if the conjecture that an empty proof can be convincing is correct. [[Special:Contributions/73.222.207.213|73.222.207.213]] 23:26, 30 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yeah, it is a circular argument. Maybe that’s part of the joke? [[User:Logalex8369|Logalex8369]] ([[User talk:Logalex8369|talk]]) 01:39, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
::I say it's only circular reasoning if it's circular reasoning. [[Special:Contributions/81.179.199.253|81.179.199.253]] 02:01, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, it really begs the question... [[Special:Contributions/136.47.216.1|136.47.216.1]] 03:42, 31 January 2026 (UTC)

This space provably left blank [[User:Hcs|Hcs]] ([[User talk:Hcs|talk]]) 09:13, 31 January 2026 (UTC)
:I see what you didn't there. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:21, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

The only problem I see here is that the "conjecture" should be called "theorem". In a mathematical paper, statements for which you are about to present a proof are called "theorems," not "conjectures." Conjectures are statements made without proof which the author expects to be true and provable. I would expect something like "'''Theorem 1.1'''. ''There is an empty proof of a non-vacuous theorem.''" Then it would be followed by an empty line, then "'''Proof.'''" another empty line, and finally nothing. (That said, this isn't really a proof of anything. If I assert that it is not a proof, how can you demonstrate that I am wrong? Only if I accept that it is a proof does it become a proof. It's one of those natural language paradoxes like "this statement is true.") [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 22:31, 31 January 2026 (UTC)

I am not convinced. {{unsigned ip|2607:fb91:b65:c707:d543:2a8d:d408:4945}} 18:51, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3193: Sailing Rigs

2026-01-13T23:33:39Z

Martin:

Here before all the "here im first" comments [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 05:06, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that he forgot about cutters. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 05:07, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: :D [[User:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|Qwertyuiopfromdefly]] ([[User talk:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|talk]]) 05:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Flettner Rig may refer to https://xkcd.com/3119/ [[Special:Contributions/73.225.91.80|73.225.91.80]] 06:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, but also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor [[Special:Contributions/130.76.187.47|130.76.187.47]] 12:57, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Perhaps. I presume that the entire comic is in service to the pun in the title text. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have a kite rig web page. That's a real thing, but usually not as pretty as here. And I suppose you could do helium balloons. Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/85.115.54.203|85.115.54.203]] 11:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Why is this page (alone of all the comics, as far as I've seen) mirrored? The comic image, text, angle of the italics, etc. are all reversed on both the comic page and the front page. Stock Safari on iOS 16.7.12. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:03, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:"Troll revision". Got it, mystery solved. Though I'm a bit surprised that raw styling like that's allowed, not just wiki markup. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:09, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I remember looking through all kinds of rig-types when trying to describe (and/or explain) a ''prior'' comic with a particular sailing ship design on it (some time ago, not sure which one). Might well be that Randall's been looking at the same page as I did. ;) [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 14:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The offset rig one could be a reference to speed record sailboats. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_Sailrocket) For torque reasons, they have the mast mounted on a horizontal boom and offset far off the side of the boat. Though on the other hand, speed record boats have this boom above the water, and only have single sails. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E|2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E]] 15:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:That looks to me more like a form of catamaran (or partly-inline trimarang).

The definition of yawl is wrong. What matters is not position of mizzen relative to rudder post, but to water line. Ketches often have the mizzen mast behind the rudder.
:There is no hard-and-fast definition of ketch vs yawl, really it goes by how the boat handles. Having said that, the usual definition, and most commonly quoted, is whether the mizzen mast is fore or aft of the rudder post... and in most cases this definition works. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Bunkbed rig could also be reference to a Hydrofoil, the idea that the boat moves so fast it climbs out of the water. [[Special:Contributions/198.180.154.20|198.180.154.20]] 15:48, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The "OOPS, ALL SPINNAKERS" could be made to work (although only sailing downwind, and only up to the speed of the airflow) by using spinnakers increasingly tightly woven so that the upwind ones would let pass most of the airflow with the subsequent ones being increasingly tightly woven, thus minimalizing the loss of efficiency due to the escape of airflow around the edges of each spinnaker. Such a setup could potentially allow to maximize the use of the airflow force when sailing directly downwind, although the increase in complexity and wheight would likely lead to an overall loss of efficiency compared to a single, well-designed spinnaker. In any case the spinnaker (basically a parachute on a mast) is only designed to add a little extra boost when sailing downwind in a strong wind for a relatively long time (when the main sails can't catch much wind; in this configuration the main sail(s) are typically angled at a very wide angle against the airflow which is very suboptimal for a "foil" sail), in all other cases the foil-like sails are much more efficient and do allow to sail faster than the wind, which the spinnaker can't achieve, by design. [[Special:Contributions/2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD|2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD]] 21:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

"Real: No" should probably be "Real: Not as of January 13, 2026." Because at least for a few of those, someone out there will see the comic and say "Hmm, that's an interesting idea" and make it happen. [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 22:05, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The explanation for Yawl contains an incorrect definition of fore-and-aft rigging. It says a mast has two sails "One in front of the mast and one behind, known as fore-and-aft rigging" but that is not what fore-and-aft rigging means. Even a single sail can be fore-and-aft rigged, which means it is rigged to a boom and/or the centreline of the boat. This is different from square-rigged, which means rigged to a spar which goes across the boat from one side to the other (at right angles to the centreline). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:26, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The Offset Rig would work downwind. But it would *only* work downwind because the center of effort is so far forward of the center of lateral resistance. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 23:33, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== Cropped images ==

I brought over the [[:Template:CSS image crop]] from enwiki and added cropped images to the table and…it doesn't look quite as good as I had hoped.
Perhaps they need to be scaled down. Still, my patience for finding all the boundaries and entering them is at an end, so … perhaps someone else can make it look better without doing a lot of work. Not sure. good luck. (I forget how this was done in prior explanations, ugh. Maybe in a better way. I forgot to look before doing this work.) [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:29, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:I went through the very-redlinking documentation part and stripped out (or commented out) various things that did not 'translate well' on this site due to not having the requisite support templates. (And trivially list-formatted the parameter explanations.) (I didn't stop it from giving itself the redlinked category used to track invalid uses of the template, checking the documented examples could reveal which does that... assuming we don't want to just remove that check-and-categorisation from the 'working' template codeanyway.) If anyone cares to look at the form of the code that has so much more transcluded template-formatting, it's the second edit-version of the page that you need to go through and consider what can be (and needs to be) re-added in.
:As to how we've done it before, it's generally done by salami-slicing the image (from the big image on this or the original site) and then manually uploading those mini fragments as images in their own right to use in support (see, e.g. how [[730: Circuit Diagram]] has done it). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 20:04, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, yes, I thought about fixing up the template documentation and decided it just was not worth the effort, but happy to have you have done it. I do think using "sprites" from the main image works better than uploading the cross product of rows and columns as separate files. Thanks for the 730 reference, all I could remember was [[1928: Seven Years]] where I solved a different but related problem in a different way (overlay numbering sub-panels while applying an alpha channel and referencing those numbers as callouts), though curiously we did not continue it for [[2386: Ten Years]] or [[3172: Fifteen Years]]. Maybe there should be a [[:Category:Image-based explanation markup solutions]] to put these all in. I am a little bit joking, but more serious than not.
::Also, we could definitely rewrite this template so it could be used in a less verbose way with numbered parameter fields and maybe a scaling factor. Or, for that matter, to take a list of intersection points and to return the nth sub-image given those corner points. But, of course, I went with what seemed the easiest lift at the time. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 20:42, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
{{outdent|2}} Apparnetly [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|@DollarStoreBa'al]] disagrees first. I wish they had said something. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:49, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3193: Sailing Rigs

2026-01-13T22:26:53Z

Martin: adding my sig to my last comment

Here before all the "here im first" comments [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 05:06, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that he forgot about cutters. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 05:07, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: :D [[User:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|Qwertyuiopfromdefly]] ([[User talk:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|talk]]) 05:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Flettner Rig may refer to https://xkcd.com/3119/ [[Special:Contributions/73.225.91.80|73.225.91.80]] 06:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, but also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor [[Special:Contributions/130.76.187.47|130.76.187.47]] 12:57, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Perhaps. I presume that the entire comic is in service to the pun in the title text. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have a kite rig web page. That's a real thing, but usually not as pretty as here. And I suppose you could do helium balloons. Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/85.115.54.203|85.115.54.203]] 11:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Why is this page (alone of all the comics, as far as I've seen) mirrored? The comic image, text, angle of the italics, etc. are all reversed on both the comic page and the front page. Stock Safari on iOS 16.7.12. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:03, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:"Troll revision". Got it, mystery solved. Though I'm a bit surprised that raw styling like that's allowed, not just wiki markup. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:09, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I remember looking through all kinds of rig-types when trying to describe (and/or explain) a ''prior'' comic with a particular sailing ship design on it (some time ago, not sure which one). Might well be that Randall's been looking at the same page as I did. ;) [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 14:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The offset rig one could be a reference to speed record sailboats. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_Sailrocket) For torque reasons, they have the mast mounted on a horizontal boom and offset far off the side of the boat. Though on the other hand, speed record boats have this boom above the water, and only have single sails. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E|2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E]] 15:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:That looks to me more like a form of catamaran (or partly-inline trimarang).

The definition of yawl is wrong. What matters is not position of mizzen relative to rudder post, but to water line. Ketches often have the mizzen mast behind the rudder.
:There is no hard-and-fast definition of ketch vs yawl, really it goes by how the boat handles. Having said that, the usual definition, and most commonly quoted, is whether the mizzen mast is fore or aft of the rudder post... and in most cases this definition works. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Bunkbed rig could also be reference to a Hydrofoil, the idea that the boat moves so fast it climbs out of the water. [[Special:Contributions/198.180.154.20|198.180.154.20]] 15:48, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The "OOPS, ALL SPINNAKERS" could be made to work (although only sailing downwind, and only up to the speed of the airflow) by using spinnakers increasingly tightly woven so that the upwind ones would let pass most of the airflow with the subsequent ones being increasingly tightly woven, thus minimalizing the loss of efficiency due to the escape of airflow around the edges of each spinnaker. Such a setup could potentially allow to maximize the use of the airflow force when sailing directly downwind, although the increase in complexity and wheight would likely lead to an overall loss of efficiency compared to a single, well-designed spinnaker. In any case the spinnaker (basically a parachute on a mast) is only designed to add a little extra boost when sailing downwind in a strong wind for a relatively long time (when the main sails can't catch much wind; in this configuration the main sail(s) are typically angled at a very wide angle against the airflow which is very suboptimal for a "foil" sail), in all other cases the foil-like sails are much more efficient and do allow to sail faster than the wind, which the spinnaker can't achieve, by design. [[Special:Contributions/2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD|2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD]] 21:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

"Real: No" should probably be "Real: Not as of January 13, 2026." Because at least for a few of those, someone out there will see the comic and say "Hmm, that's an interesting idea" and make it happen. [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 22:05, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The explanation for Yawl contains an incorrect definition of fore-and-aft rigging. It says a mast has two sails "One in front of the mast and one behind, known as fore-and-aft rigging" but that is not what fore-and-aft rigging means. Even a single sail can be fore-and-aft rigged, which means it is rigged to a boom and/or the centreline of the boat. This is different from square-rigged, which means rigged to a spar which goes across the boat from one side to the other (at right angles to the centreline). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:26, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== Cropped images ==

I brought over the [[:Template:CSS image crop]] from enwiki and added cropped images to the table and…it doesn't look quite as good as I had hoped.
Perhaps they need to be scaled down. Still, my patience for finding all the boundaries and entering them is at an end, so … perhaps someone else can make it look better without doing a lot of work. Not sure. good luck. (I forget how this was done in prior explanations, ugh. Maybe in a better way. I forgot to look before doing this work.) [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:29, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:I went through the very-redlinking documentation part and stripped out (or commented out) various things that did not 'translate well' on this site due to not having the requisite support templates. (And trivially list-formatted the parameter explanations.) (I didn't stop it from giving itself the redlinked category used to track invalid uses of the template, checking the documented examples could reveal which does that... assuming we don't want to just remove that check-and-categorisation from the 'working' template codeanyway.) If anyone cares to look at the form of the code that has so much more transcluded template-formatting, it's the second edit-version of the page that you need to go through and consider what can be (and needs to be) re-added in.
:As to how we've done it before, it's generally done by salami-slicing the image (from the big image on this or the original site) and then manually uploading those mini fragments as images in their own right to use in support (see, e.g. how [[730: Circuit Diagram]] has done it). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 20:04, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, yes, I thought about fixing up the template documentation and decided it just was not worth the effort, but happy to have you have done it. I do think using "sprites" from the main image works better than uploading the cross product of rows and columns as separate files. Thanks for the 730 reference, all I could remember was [[1928: Seven Years]] where I solved a different but related problem in a different way (overlay numbering sub-panels while applying an alpha channel and referencing those numbers as callouts), though curiously we did not continue it for [[2386: Ten Years]] or [[3172: Fifteen Years]]. Maybe there should be a [[:Category:Image-based explanation markup solutions]] to put these all in. I am a little bit joking, but more serious than not.
::Also, we could definitely rewrite this template so it could be used in a less verbose way with numbered parameter fields and maybe a scaling factor. Or, for that matter, to take a list of intersection points and to return the nth sub-image given those corner points. But, of course, I went with what seemed the easiest lift at the time. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 20:42, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
{{outdent|2}} Apparnetly [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|@DollarStoreBa'al]] disagrees first. I wish they had said something. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:49, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3193: Sailing Rigs

2026-01-13T22:24:17Z

Martin: definition of fore-and-aft rigging

Here before all the "here im first" comments [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 05:06, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that he forgot about cutters. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 05:07, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: :D [[User:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|Qwertyuiopfromdefly]] ([[User talk:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|talk]]) 05:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Flettner Rig may refer to https://xkcd.com/3119/ [[Special:Contributions/73.225.91.80|73.225.91.80]] 06:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, but also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor [[Special:Contributions/130.76.187.47|130.76.187.47]] 12:57, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Perhaps. I presume that the entire comic is in service to the pun in the title text. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have a kite rig web page. That's a real thing, but usually not as pretty as here. And I suppose you could do helium balloons. Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/85.115.54.203|85.115.54.203]] 11:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Why is this page (alone of all the comics, as far as I've seen) mirrored? The comic image, text, angle of the italics, etc. are all reversed on both the comic page and the front page. Stock Safari on iOS 16.7.12. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:03, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:"Troll revision". Got it, mystery solved. Though I'm a bit surprised that raw styling like that's allowed, not just wiki markup. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:09, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I remember looking through all kinds of rig-types when trying to describe (and/or explain) a ''prior'' comic with a particular sailing ship design on it (some time ago, not sure which one). Might well be that Randall's been looking at the same page as I did. ;) [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 14:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The offset rig one could be a reference to speed record sailboats. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_Sailrocket) For torque reasons, they have the mast mounted on a horizontal boom and offset far off the side of the boat. Though on the other hand, speed record boats have this boom above the water, and only have single sails. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E|2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E]] 15:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:That looks to me more like a form of catamaran (or partly-inline trimarang).

The definition of yawl is wrong. What matters is not position of mizzen relative to rudder post, but to water line. Ketches often have the mizzen mast behind the rudder.
:There is no hard-and-fast definition of ketch vs yawl, really it goes by how the boat handles. Having said that, the usual definition, and most commonly quoted, is whether the mizzen mast is fore or aft of the rudder post... and in most cases this definition works. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Bunkbed rig could also be reference to a Hydrofoil, the idea that the boat moves so fast it climbs out of the water. [[Special:Contributions/198.180.154.20|198.180.154.20]] 15:48, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The "OOPS, ALL SPINNAKERS" could be made to work (although only sailing downwind, and only up to the speed of the airflow) by using spinnakers increasingly tightly woven so that the upwind ones would let pass most of the airflow with the subsequent ones being increasingly tightly woven, thus minimalizing the loss of efficiency due to the escape of airflow around the edges of each spinnaker. Such a setup could potentially allow to maximize the use of the airflow force when sailing directly downwind, although the increase in complexity and wheight would likely lead to an overall loss of efficiency compared to a single, well-designed spinnaker. In any case the spinnaker (basically a parachute on a mast) is only designed to add a little extra boost when sailing downwind in a strong wind for a relatively long time (when the main sails can't catch much wind; in this configuration the main sail(s) are typically angled at a very wide angle against the airflow which is very suboptimal for a "foil" sail), in all other cases the foil-like sails are much more efficient and do allow to sail faster than the wind, which the spinnaker can't achieve, by design. [[Special:Contributions/2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD|2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD]] 21:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

"Real: No" should probably be "Real: Not as of January 13, 2026." Because at least for a few of those, someone out there will see the comic and say "Hmm, that's an interesting idea" and make it happen. [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 22:05, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The explanation for Yawl contains an incorrect definition of fore-and-aft rigging. It says a mast has two sails "One in front of the mast and one behind, known as fore-and-aft rigging" but that is not what fore-and-aft rigging means. Even a single sail can be fore-and-aft rigged, which means it is rigged to a boom and/or the centreline of the boat. This is different from square-rigged, which means rigged to a spar which goes across the boat from one side to the other (at right angles to the centreline).

== Cropped images ==

I brought over the [[:Template:CSS image crop]] from enwiki and added cropped images to the table and…it doesn't look quite as good as I had hoped.
Perhaps they need to be scaled down. Still, my patience for finding all the boundaries and entering them is at an end, so … perhaps someone else can make it look better without doing a lot of work. Not sure. good luck. (I forget how this was done in prior explanations, ugh. Maybe in a better way. I forgot to look before doing this work.) [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:29, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:I went through the very-redlinking documentation part and stripped out (or commented out) various things that did not 'translate well' on this site due to not having the requisite support templates. (And trivially list-formatted the parameter explanations.) (I didn't stop it from giving itself the redlinked category used to track invalid uses of the template, checking the documented examples could reveal which does that... assuming we don't want to just remove that check-and-categorisation from the 'working' template codeanyway.) If anyone cares to look at the form of the code that has so much more transcluded template-formatting, it's the second edit-version of the page that you need to go through and consider what can be (and needs to be) re-added in.
:As to how we've done it before, it's generally done by salami-slicing the image (from the big image on this or the original site) and then manually uploading those mini fragments as images in their own right to use in support (see, e.g. how [[730: Circuit Diagram]] has done it). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 20:04, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, yes, I thought about fixing up the template documentation and decided it just was not worth the effort, but happy to have you have done it. I do think using "sprites" from the main image works better than uploading the cross product of rows and columns as separate files. Thanks for the 730 reference, all I could remember was [[1928: Seven Years]] where I solved a different but related problem in a different way (overlay numbering sub-panels while applying an alpha channel and referencing those numbers as callouts), though curiously we did not continue it for [[2386: Ten Years]] or [[3172: Fifteen Years]]. Maybe there should be a [[:Category:Image-based explanation markup solutions]] to put these all in. I am a little bit joking, but more serious than not.
::Also, we could definitely rewrite this template so it could be used in a less verbose way with numbered parameter fields and maybe a scaling factor. Or, for that matter, to take a list of intersection points and to return the nth sub-image given those corner points. But, of course, I went with what seemed the easiest lift at the time. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 20:42, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
{{outdent|2}} Apparnetly [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|@DollarStoreBa'al]] disagrees first. I wish they had said something. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:49, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Talk:3193: Sailing Rigs

2026-01-13T22:15:05Z

Martin: discussion of ketch vs yawl definition

Here before all the "here im first" comments [[User:TheTrainsKid|TheTrainsKid]] ([[User talk:TheTrainsKid|talk]]) 05:06, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that he forgot about cutters. [[User:PDesbeginner|PDesbeginner]] ([[User talk:PDesbeginner|talk]]) 05:07, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
: :D [[User:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|Qwertyuiopfromdefly]] ([[User talk:Qwertyuiopfromdefly|talk]]) 05:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Flettner Rig may refer to https://xkcd.com/3119/ [[Special:Contributions/73.225.91.80|73.225.91.80]] 06:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Yes, but also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor [[Special:Contributions/130.76.187.47|130.76.187.47]] 12:57, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:Perhaps. I presume that the entire comic is in service to the pun in the title text. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Wikipedia does have a kite rig web page. That's a real thing, but usually not as pretty as here. And I suppose you could do helium balloons. Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/85.115.54.203|85.115.54.203]] 11:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Why is this page (alone of all the comics, as far as I've seen) mirrored? The comic image, text, angle of the italics, etc. are all reversed on both the comic page and the front page. Stock Safari on iOS 16.7.12. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:03, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:"Troll revision". Got it, mystery solved. Though I'm a bit surprised that raw styling like that's allowed, not just wiki markup. [[User:D5xtgr|D5xtgr]] ([[User talk:D5xtgr|talk]]) 14:09, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

I remember looking through all kinds of rig-types when trying to describe (and/or explain) a ''prior'' comic with a particular sailing ship design on it (some time ago, not sure which one). Might well be that Randall's been looking at the same page as I did. ;) [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 14:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The offset rig one could be a reference to speed record sailboats. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestas_Sailrocket) For torque reasons, they have the mast mounted on a horizontal boom and offset far off the side of the boat. Though on the other hand, speed record boats have this boom above the water, and only have single sails. [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E|2600:4040:2C96:4700:953D:B3CC:B3DB:2C2E]] 15:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:That looks to me more like a form of catamaran (or partly-inline trimarang).

The definition of yawl is wrong. What matters is not position of mizzen relative to rudder post, but to water line. Ketches often have the mizzen mast behind the rudder.
:There is no hard-and-fast definition of ketch vs yawl, really it goes by how the boat handles. Having said that, the usual definition, and most commonly quoted, is whether the mizzen mast is fore or aft of the rudder post... and in most cases this definition works. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:15, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

Bunkbed rig could also be reference to a Hydrofoil, the idea that the boat moves so fast it climbs out of the water. [[Special:Contributions/198.180.154.20|198.180.154.20]] 15:48, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

The "OOPS, ALL SPINNAKERS" could be made to work (although only sailing downwind, and only up to the speed of the airflow) by using spinnakers increasingly tightly woven so that the upwind ones would let pass most of the airflow with the subsequent ones being increasingly tightly woven, thus minimalizing the loss of efficiency due to the escape of airflow around the edges of each spinnaker. Such a setup could potentially allow to maximize the use of the airflow force when sailing directly downwind, although the increase in complexity and wheight would likely lead to an overall loss of efficiency compared to a single, well-designed spinnaker. In any case the spinnaker (basically a parachute on a mast) is only designed to add a little extra boost when sailing downwind in a strong wind for a relatively long time (when the main sails can't catch much wind; in this configuration the main sail(s) are typically angled at a very wide angle against the airflow which is very suboptimal for a "foil" sail), in all other cases the foil-like sails are much more efficient and do allow to sail faster than the wind, which the spinnaker can't achieve, by design. [[Special:Contributions/2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD|2001:861:3F07:A020:D17C:74A0:94EF:9DAD]] 21:30, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

"Real: No" should probably be "Real: Not as of January 13, 2026." Because at least for a few of those, someone out there will see the comic and say "Hmm, that's an interesting idea" and make it happen. [[Special:Contributions/64.201.132.210|64.201.132.210]] 22:05, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

== Cropped images ==

I brought over the [[:Template:CSS image crop]] from enwiki and added cropped images to the table and…it doesn't look quite as good as I had hoped.
Perhaps they need to be scaled down. Still, my patience for finding all the boundaries and entering them is at an end, so … perhaps someone else can make it look better without doing a lot of work. Not sure. good luck. (I forget how this was done in prior explanations, ugh. Maybe in a better way. I forgot to look before doing this work.) [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 15:29, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
:I went through the very-redlinking documentation part and stripped out (or commented out) various things that did not 'translate well' on this site due to not having the requisite support templates. (And trivially list-formatted the parameter explanations.) (I didn't stop it from giving itself the redlinked category used to track invalid uses of the template, checking the documented examples could reveal which does that... assuming we don't want to just remove that check-and-categorisation from the 'working' template codeanyway.) If anyone cares to look at the form of the code that has so much more transcluded template-formatting, it's the second edit-version of the page that you need to go through and consider what can be (and needs to be) re-added in.
:As to how we've done it before, it's generally done by salami-slicing the image (from the big image on this or the original site) and then manually uploading those mini fragments as images in their own right to use in support (see, e.g. how [[730: Circuit Diagram]] has done it). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208|92.23.2.208]] 20:04, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
::Thanks, yes, I thought about fixing up the template documentation and decided it just was not worth the effort, but happy to have you have done it. I do think using "sprites" from the main image works better than uploading the cross product of rows and columns as separate files. Thanks for the 730 reference, all I could remember was [[1928: Seven Years]] where I solved a different but related problem in a different way (overlay numbering sub-panels while applying an alpha channel and referencing those numbers as callouts), though curiously we did not continue it for [[2386: Ten Years]] or [[3172: Fifteen Years]]. Maybe there should be a [[:Category:Image-based explanation markup solutions]] to put these all in. I am a little bit joking, but more serious than not.
::Also, we could definitely rewrite this template so it could be used in a less verbose way with numbered parameter fields and maybe a scaling factor. Or, for that matter, to take a list of intersection points and to return the nth sub-image given those corner points. But, of course, I went with what seemed the easiest lift at the time. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 20:42, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
{{outdent|2}} Apparnetly [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|@DollarStoreBa'al]] disagrees first. I wish they had said something. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 21:49, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

3193: Sailing Rigs

2026-01-13T22:05:35Z

Martin: /* Fixing a small typo: Yawls -> Yawl */

{{comic
| number = 3193
| date = January 12, 2026
| title = Sailing Rigs
| image = sailing_rigs_2x.png
| imagesize = 508x822px
| noexpand = true
| titletext = I wanted to make the world's fastest yawl, so I made the aft sail bigger, but apparently that means it's not a yawl anymore! It's a real ketch-22.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|This page was created by the birds flying in my kite. Don't remove this notice too soon.}}
This comic shows the side profiles of a variety of different sailing boat/ship rigs, not all of which are real.

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Type
!Image
!Real?
!Description 
!Explanation 
|-
|{{w|Lateen}}
|[[File:3193 Lateen.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|A single triangular sail.
|The triangular sail was affixed to a long yard or crossbar, mounted at its middle to the top of the mast and angled to extend aft far above the mast and forward down nearly to the deck. The sail, its free corner secured near the stern, was capable of taking the wind on either side, and, by enabling the vessel to tack into the wind, the lateen immensely increased the potential of the sailing ship. [https://www.britannica.com/technology/lateen-sail] 
|-
|{{W|Bermuda rig|Bermuda rigged sloop}}
|[[File:3193 Bermuda.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|A front and rear triangular sail share a mast.
|{{w|Sloop}}
|-
|{{w|Ketch}}
|[[File:3193 Ketch.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|A sailboat with two masts, where the main mast is taller than the aft mast, and the aft mast is forward of the rudder post
|Similar to a Yawl
|-
|{{w|Gaff rig|Gaff rigged sloop}}
|[[File:3193 Gaff Sloop.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|A front triangular sail shares mast with rear quadrilateral sail.
|A sloop is a sailboat with one mast, typically with two sails mounted on the mast, one ahead and one behind. A Gaff Rig is a sailing rig where one sail is four-sided and controlled by a spar (the gaff) at its top, which is hoisted at an angle to the mast. [https://nauticalknowhow.mysailingcourse.com/glossary/gaff-rig/]
|-
|{{w|Yawl}}
|[[File:3193 Yawl.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|Two triangular sails share a front mast, and a much smaller aft mast holds a small aft sail.
|A Yawl is sailboat with two masts, where the front mast has two sails (One in front of the mast and one behind, known as {{w|fore-and-aft rigging}}, and the aft mast is mounted aft of the rudder post, leading the aft sail to typically be small. Similar to a Ketch.
|-
|{{w|Schooner}}
||[[File:3193 Schooner.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}
|A sailboat with two or more masts, where all have {{w|fore-and-aft rigging}}, and where the front mast is typically smaller than the main mast
|-
|Ketch-rigged gaff
|[[File:3193 Ketch Gaff.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|The first fictional rig. Resembles a gaff, with the aft sail reduced and two triangular sails mounted above. The resulting shape resembles a vertical ketch.
|
|-
|Kloop-rigged sketch
|[[File:3193 Kloop.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|Four or five sails mounted in a nonsensical configuration, with elements from the schooner, ketch, and gaff
| A mixture of the names of {{w|ketch}} and {{w|sloop}}, poking fun at the unfamiliar and odd-sounding names of some rigs. Adding to the absurdity, the kloop-rigged sketch is neither a sloop nor a ketch. However it is technically a {{w|Sketch (drawing)|sketch}}, as "sketch" can mean "drawing"
|-
|Bunkbed rig
|[[File:3193 100% more boat.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|A gaff-rigged sloop mounted on top of a second hull.
|The name refers to a {{w|bunkbed}}, where a bed is mounted directly above another, and applies this idea to a ship, mounting a hull directly above another. While {{w|Multihull|boats with multiple hulls}} do exist, these are always mounted side-by-side to guarentee stability. Mounting a hull above another would be a terrible idea, as the upper hull would be ineffective when raised above the water, the lower hull might become submerged and sink, and such a tall boat would be unstable causing it to fall over. The comic is funny due to this {{w|surreal humour|absurdity}}, due to boat's obivously extreme design being so far outside what someone would expect a boat to look like
|-
|Flettner rig
|[[File:3193 Flettner.png|200x200px]]
|{{Yes}}, though not typically called a rig
|The rectangular outline of a cylinder with motion lines around it, indicating a {{w|Flettner rotor}}
|A Flettner rotor is a right circular cylinder with disc end plates which is spun along its long axis. As air passes across it the {{w|Magnus effect}} causes an aerodynamic lift force to be generated in the direction perpendicular to both the long axis and the direction of airflow. In a {{w|rotor ship}}, the rotors stand vertically and lift is generated at right angles to the wind, to drive the ship forwards.

Flettner rotors were previously mentioned in [[3119]]
|-
|Oops, all spinnakers
|[[File:3193 Spinnakers.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|Three masts each with a sail billowing in front
|A {{w|spinnaker}} is a real type of sail, where a boat is propelled by a large sail directly pulled by the wind, similar in principle to a parachute. However, "Oops, all spinnakers" is not real, as spinnakers are only practical for smaller craft, and if multiple spinnakers are mounted in a row the earlier ones may disrupt the airflow to the later ones{{citation needed}}. It does not appear that there are any real boats propelled by more than one spinnaker.{{citation needed}}
The name of the rig is a reference to the {{w|Cap'n Crunch}} cereal type that became a meme, [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/oops-all-berries-box-parodies ''Oops! All Berries''], which has also been referenced in [[2256]] and [[2719]].
|-
|Keel rig
|[[File:3193 Keel.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|Three sails in a ketch arrangement, but mounted to the keel, which would typically put the ''sails underwater''.
|The book {{w|Heaven (Stewart and Cohen novel)|''Heaven''}}, by Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen, features an aquatic protagonist who is introduced as sailing a surface-craft with underwater-'sails' (and above-water 'keel'), due to the switched nature of his usual environment.
|-
|Kite rig
|[[File:3193 Kite.png|200x200px]]
|{{Maybe|Kind of}}
|All sails are replaced by two groups of kites, each tied to the mast with their own independent line.
|A {{w|kite rig}} is a real thing, where a kite is deployed from a boat or ship to catch the wind and pull the vessel along. This rigging is used in various types of vessel, most commonly {{w|kite surfing}}, but occasionally other vessels too, up to trials with cargo ships [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/30/travel/airseas-giant-kites-ships-slash-carbon-emissions-scn-climate-spc]. However, the real kite riggings typically use one large kite optimised for catching the wind, rather than many small kites optimised for flying (as depicted) which would likely get tangled and not pull much on the ship.
|-
|Longsail rig
|[[File:3193 Longsail.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|A bermuda rigged sloop with the aft sail extending ~5 times as far back, well beyond the end of the hull.
|While not technically impossible, such a long sail would likely be suceptiple to damage from the wind, as well as potentially making it hard to control the boat.
|-
|Deckhand obliterator
|[[File:3193 Deckhand Obliterator.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|All sails replaced by an anchor that swings around the mast on a chain, similar to tetherball.
|Any deckhands (crew) on the deck could be knocked off or fatally hurt if the anchor passes through their space.
|-
|Offset rig
|[[File:3193 Offset.png|200x200px]]
|{{No}}
|Gaff rigged sloop sails are mounted on a mast that is offset (forward) from the hull via an underwater extension of the keel.
|The extreme mechanical advantage of the sail, potentially combined with the uneven weight, would make this rigging hard if not impossible to control. 
There are in fact [https://junkrigassociation.org/technical_forum/470838 sail configurations] [https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/gaffs-balanced-lugs-hoyt-offset-rig-etc.53504/ called offset rigs] but they aren't like the one shown here.
|-
|Mastless rig
|[[File:3193 Mastless.png|200x200px]]
|{{Maybe|Kind of}}
|A single sail is directly to the hull of the boat, without any mast holding it in the wind.
|As depicted the sail would provide little to no useful propulsion, as it would not be high enough to effective catch the wind. However ships do exist without sails, such as ships not powered by wind{{citation needed}}, or more rarely inflatable sails (e.g. [http://inflatedwingsails.com/en/concept/]), which use air rather than a mast for rigidity. While not intentional, it is conceivable that the drawing depicts an inflatable sail in its deflated state.
|-
|Unclassifiable chaos rig
|[[File:3193 Unclassifiable Chaos.png]]
|{{No|Arguably}}
|Includes elements of the schooner, yawl, lateen, and possibly others.
|While this specific rig is almost certainly fictional, there are many ways to rig a ship, some of which are difficult to classify.
|}

The title text is a pun on the term {{w|Catch-22 (logic)|Catch-22}}, which is a term (taken from the novel of the same name) for a situation where success is impossible because it requires meeting contradictory conditions. For example, in the novel, the term was used by military pilots who qualified to be released from combat duty, but were ordered to fly additional missions, and were told that disobeying those orders was grounds to have their releases revoked, which would require them to fly additional missions anyway.

Per the main panel, a ketch is similar to a yawl but has a larger aft sail, so increasing the aft sail of a yawl effectively turns the yawl into a ketch, effectively making it impossible to build a faster yawl. However this is not technically true, as the distinction between a {{w|yawl}} and {{w|ketch}} is based on whether the aft sail is mounted forward or aft of the rudder post, although a yawl with a large aft sail may be difficult to control.{{actual citation needed}}

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript|Don't remove this notice too soon.}}

[The comic contains views from the side of boats, each with a different sailing rig. All boats are oriented to the left of the comic.]
*Lateen [a single triangular sail]
*Bermuda rigged sloop [a front and rear triangular sail share a mast]
*Ketch [two triangular sails as above, with an additional triangular sail on a second rear mast]
*Gaff rigged sloop [front triangular sail shares mast with rear quadrilateral sail]
*Yawl [two triangular sails share front mast and a much smaller aft mast holds a small aft]
*Schooner [two triangular front sails share foreward mast with quadrilateral center sail. An aft mast supports a quadrilateral aft sail]
*Ketch-rigged gaff [Resembles a gaff, with the aft sail reduced and two triangular sails mounted above. The resulting shape resembles a vertical ketch]
*Kloop-rigged sketch: [Includes elements of ketch and sloop]
*Bunkbed rig [A gaff-rigged sloop is mounted on top of a second hull]
*Flettner rig [The rectangular outline of a cylinder with motion lines around it]
*Oops, all spinnakers [three masts each with a sail only attached to the top]
*Keel rig [three sails in a ketch arrangement, but mounted to the keel]
*Kite rig [all sails are replaced by two groups of kites, each tied to the mast with an independent line]
*Longsail rig [bermuda rigged sloop with the aft sail extending ~5 times as far back, well beyond the end of the hull]
*Deckhand obliterator [all sails replaced by an anchor that swings around the mast on a chain, similar to tetherball]
*Offset rig [gaff rigged sloop sails are mounted on a mast that is offset (forward) from the hull via an underwater extension of the keel]
*Mastless rig [a single sail is attached where the mast would normally be mounted, flapping around freely]
*Unclassifiable chaos rig [includes elements of the schooner, yawl, lateen, and possibly others]
{{comic discussion}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Puns]]
[[Category:Sailboats]]

Talk:1643: Degrees

2016-02-15T22:04:15Z

Martin: Mars Climate Orbiter

Rankine is a good compromise. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.65|173.245.56.65]] 14:11, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

0.173 rad = 10°. Now it could be 10°C (50°F) or 10°F (-12°C).--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.228.113|108.162.228.113]] 14:14, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

It should probably be noted that since 0.173 radians is equal to around 9.91 degrees, the temperature that Cueball gave is likely in 'radians Celsius', since 9.91 degrees Farenheit would be an unlikely temperature to occur, unless they're somewhere like Canada or northern Russia --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.59|162.158.152.59]] 14:17, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:It would appear that that's already been noted since I started writing that comment. Ignore me. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.59|162.158.152.59]] 14:18, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Guys, we moved away from the Réaumur-scale: You can do the same for the Fahrenheit :-). --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 14:20, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
: And we all moved away from the Rømer scale (what Reumer and Fahrenheit were both based on), 0F is 0Rø, 100C/80Reu is 80Rø). We even moved from the 100C-0C to 0C-100C since Celsius was a (half) crazy Swedish scientist who thought Reumer made sense if it was based on 100 instead of 80, and 100 was the freezing point (everybody ignores the second part of his scale).[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.222|162.158.114.222]] 17:07, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:: {{w|Ole_Rømer|Rømer}} was {{w|Danish}} -- Calling him Sweedish is an insult -- kind if the same insult as calling Cruz Canadian [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:14, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:::Then it was great that it was Celsius who was called a ''crazy Swedish scientist'' above, (and he was Swedish). Rømer is luckily more known for making the first quantitative measurements of the speed of light and not for his failed temperature scale. (I'm from Denmark and like the light part: He measured the hesitation of light ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Considering how cold New England is today, I'm pretty sure it's Fahrenheit. {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.71}}

Temperature is given in F. Look at which month it is. And how this is a darn cold winter (at least in Canada). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.43|108.162.216.43]] 14:32, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
: its currently 10F in the Boston area where Randall lives.
:: For people from the future, see [https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KBOS/2016/2/15/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Somerville&req_state=MA&reqdb.zip=02143&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999 this historical data page for the day the comic was released] --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.214.59|108.162.214.59]] 19:00, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

What's with the "We lost a Mars probe over this" remark? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.113|141.101.104.113]] 14:33, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
: One of the Mars probes crashed into Mars because one of the NASA contractors{{Citation needed}} was using US Customary units instead of SI units. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 14:39, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:: Is there a reference for this ?? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:17, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
::: It was the Mars Climate Orbiter, it crashed in 1999 because software supplied by Lockheed Martin produced results in US customary units even though the specs called for metrics units. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:04, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

:The mars probe remark is in reference to a mistake in switching navigational numbers from American standard to metric (namely in that they didn't) which caused the probe to slam into the surface of mars. If I remember correctly that is.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.78|108.162.238.78]] 14:43, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

I used to think that physicists prefer Kelvin, which is of course sort of based on Celsius. [[User:Jkrstrt|Jkrstrt]] ([[User talk:Jkrstrt|talk]]) 15:28, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

If he used Radians Fahrenheit, then 1 would be very close to earth's historical mean temperature for the period 1951 to 1980. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.64|173.245.55.64]] 16:19, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
: That sounds like it could almost be useful.... What is the temperature on the surface on the sun in Radians ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:20, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
:: 96.08 [https://www.google.com/search?q=5505+degrees+in+radians radians] [https://www.google.com/search?q=temperature+of+surface+of+sun+in+degrees+Celsius Celsius], or 173.5 [https://www.google.com/search?q=9941+degrees+in+radians radians] [https://www.google.com/search?q=temperature+of+surface+of+sun+in+degrees+Fahrenheit Fahrenheit]. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.214.59|108.162.214.59]] 19:00, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

"Easier to spell"? When editing, I had to correct myself from "Celcius" to "Celsius". I never get Fahrenheit wrong! [[User:Cosmogoblin|Cosmogoblin]] ([[User talk:Cosmogoblin|talk]]) 20:55, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Can someone explain to me why Fahrenheit's scale is so much more popular across the Atlantic than in his home <s>city</s> <s>country</s> continent? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.102.219|162.158.102.219]] 21:37, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1626: Judgment Day

2016-01-08T00:18:25Z

Martin: fixing someone else's indent

It was making my titletext explanation too long and unwieldy, to include this particular speculation in my own contribution, but there's a ''possibility'' that it may well be Amazon's own sentience taking over the world, and rationalising that a dead and dying customer base is of no use to it... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.29|162.158.153.29]] 13:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Doesn't matter if it's self-sentience or not. Truth is, rigid laws are not the best way to use as a replacement for conscience. The 1613 did not deal with possibility of one or more of the laws being left out. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:53, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I think the "Judgment" part of the comic is that those tens of thousands of nukes hitting the sun may make it unstable in some way and destroy Earth. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.43|141.101.79.43]] 14:34, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:Of course, all of our nukes hitting the Sun would be a drop in the bucket of solar fusion reactions. Nothing would be destabilized. However, I'm sure inconvenient physics would not stop some movie scriptwriter from incorporating a spectacular CG-fueled nova as a plot point. [[User:Jhhxkcd|Jhhxkcd]] ([[User talk:Jhhxkcd|talk]]) 14:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
::That's pretty much already the plot of ''{{w|Sunshine (2007 film)|Sunshine}}'' (2007), though there the result was to (successfully) reignite a failing Sun, rather than to destabilize it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.135.56|162.158.135.56]] 15:35, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:It's pretty clear that the "Judgment" is the AI being judgmental of humanity's (insane) massive production and hoarding of nuclear weapons. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 22:14, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:Pennpenn, That's what I also thought, should we incorporate this as a pun on the title? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.157|108.162.249.157]] 02:26, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
The first two lines could be said by any non-hoarder looking at the stuff a hoarder has collected. "A stack of 130 used microwave dinner trays? Why do you even have all these? Are you insane? They're going in the recycling bin." I think that's the joke: the newly-sentient computer is Mom, and humanity is her teenage son with the very messy room, but this being xkcd, it gets more... um, ''extreme'' from there. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.53|173.245.54.53]] 16:18, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

There may be a reference to https://what-if.xkcd.com/5/ where Randall points out that our nuclear arsenal may actually be more damaging to computers than they are to us due to the EMP effect, effectively giving us an edge in case of robot apocalypse. By getting rid of nuclear weapon, computers also protect themselves. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 16:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Did anybody else think "{{w|Optimus Prime}}" when reading "{{w|Amazon Prime}}"? (especially with the context of sentient machines)
I know that Amazon Prime is already a real-life thing, and very connected with deliveries, so probably/maybe not an intentional pun by Randall (and thus probably not worth injecting into the explanation).
However, that won't keep me from now imagining the {{w|Autobot|Autobots}} as {{w|Amazons|Amazon warriors}}.…
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.148|199.27.130.148]] 17:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

;Would it really require a lot of booster rockets?

Can't you just "fall" into the sun for free once you're free of Earth's orbit? Why should it take a lot of booster rockets to get there? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.233|198.41.235.233]] 16:26, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:Because otherwise your rocket will fall down, miss the sun, and fly back to where earth was at the time of the launch. Effectively making it orbit the sun like a comet. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 16:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:a) The boosters are required to escape the earth's gravitational influence. After that sun's gravity would do the rest, b) A lot of boosters are required because there are a lot of missiles that need to be launched. --[[User:Desidiot|Desidiot]] ([[User talk:Desidiot|talk]]) 16:41, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:After escaping Earth's well, the nukes still have inherited the velocity of Earth's orbit. They need to reduce their periapsis close to/inside the sun. That would take extreme amounts of Delta v (i.e. energy)... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.43|141.101.79.43]] 16:45, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:And to those skilled at Kerbal Space Program... that uses a simplified 'nearest body rules' system for orbital mechanics. You can (I know I have!) launched a rocket of sufficient power such that it escapes the 'back' end of the planet's influence with a pre-escape velocity somewhat equivalent to the planet's forward velocity, which is then removed as part of the transfer to 'open space', leaving it on a highly eccentric orbit (with reference to the newly supreme gravitational source) that is practically 'straight down' (though because of the Kerbal sun's nature, you still usually sun-skim it on a very tight loop back out again). But that takes more energy than 'merely' getting beyond the planet's influence and end up travelling round the parent body in an orbit only marginally off that of the original planet, the nature (and future) of which depends completely on which direction you eventually broke free. (NB. This was all in an older version, I think they've changed some things about what happens near the sun, but not the basic physics system.)
:However, IRL you are always subject to gravity from ''every'' body. Maybe most of the time one dominates, but there's a fuzzy interface (and zones where influences balance out, hence Legrange Points). Think of it as still having a link to Earth's progression round the Sun, dragging you round, at least until you're at a point in opposition to the Earth, across the Sun (then it's dragging you back that way, encouraging you into a retrograde solar orbit). Albeit that this ''too'' is an oversimplification. But by the time you've got your rocket near opposition to its launch planet, you've expended the energies needed to fall into a non-grazing (i.e. utterly non-missing) 'orbit', and it's a ''lot'' of thrust. Which is what is required of those boosters. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.29|162.158.153.29]] 17:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:In short (with figures): Earth orbits the Sun at around 30 km/s (roughly 70,000 mph). Escape velocity from Earth's gravity is about 11 km/s at the surface (for comparison, the ISS orbits at 7.6 km/s and it takes a huge rocket to get there). To fly into the Sun starting from the ISS, you'd have to accelerate another 4 km/s to get behind the Earth on its orbital path, and nearly another 30 km/s to come to a dead stop in space and fall into the Sun. Nobody on Earth has ever built a rocket even remotely capable of doing that.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.192.11|162.158.192.11]] 12:48, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

:There is an easier way: use gravity-assist slingshot(s) around other planet(s). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 00:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

:Scott Manley attempted this with the Real Solar System and Real Fuels mods in KSP, and the result is aptly titled, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNS6VKNXY6s Dropping Things Into The Sun Is Hard.] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.19|108.162.216.19]] 13:33, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

;Nukes
Some exagerations :
* "the amount of them we have now is extreme overkill (17000 held by the U.S.A and Russia alone)" : not so. The amount is roughly sufficient to wipe in fire all major urban areas, but this still would leave pretty much alive.
* "North Korea claimed to have successfully tested its first hydrogen bomb" - indeed, it is a claim, but there is no chance it being true, see http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nuclear-confusion-the-data-suggest-north-korea-s-h-bomb-isn-t/ : a couple of kt is not enough to start a nuclear fusion. {{unsigned ip|141.101.66.41}}

On your first point, it's roughly 14,700 according to USA Today. As for your second, it's only ever stated to be a claim, so the statement is accurate. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 00:14, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1626: Judgment Day

2016-01-08T00:17:18Z

Martin: gravity-assist slingshot(s)

It was making my titletext explanation too long and unwieldy, to include this particular speculation in my own contribution, but there's a ''possibility'' that it may well be Amazon's own sentience taking over the world, and rationalising that a dead and dying customer base is of no use to it... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.29|162.158.153.29]] 13:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Doesn't matter if it's self-sentience or not. Truth is, rigid laws are not the best way to use as a replacement for conscience. The 1613 did not deal with possibility of one or more of the laws being left out. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:53, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I think the "Judgment" part of the comic is that those tens of thousands of nukes hitting the sun may make it unstable in some way and destroy Earth. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.43|141.101.79.43]] 14:34, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:Of course, all of our nukes hitting the Sun would be a drop in the bucket of solar fusion reactions. Nothing would be destabilized. However, I'm sure inconvenient physics would not stop some movie scriptwriter from incorporating a spectacular CG-fueled nova as a plot point. [[User:Jhhxkcd|Jhhxkcd]] ([[User talk:Jhhxkcd|talk]]) 14:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
::That's pretty much already the plot of ''{{w|Sunshine (2007 film)|Sunshine}}'' (2007), though there the result was to (successfully) reignite a failing Sun, rather than to destabilize it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.135.56|162.158.135.56]] 15:35, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:It's pretty clear that the "Judgment" is the AI being judgmental of humanity's (insane) massive production and hoarding of nuclear weapons. -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.162|108.162.250.162]] 22:14, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:Pennpenn, That's what I also thought, should we incorporate this as a pun on the title? --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.157|108.162.249.157]] 02:26, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
The first two lines could be said by any non-hoarder looking at the stuff a hoarder has collected. "A stack of 130 used microwave dinner trays? Why do you even have all these? Are you insane? They're going in the recycling bin." I think that's the joke: the newly-sentient computer is Mom, and humanity is her teenage son with the very messy room, but this being xkcd, it gets more... um, ''extreme'' from there. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.53|173.245.54.53]] 16:18, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

There may be a reference to https://what-if.xkcd.com/5/ where Randall points out that our nuclear arsenal may actually be more damaging to computers than they are to us due to the EMP effect, effectively giving us an edge in case of robot apocalypse. By getting rid of nuclear weapon, computers also protect themselves. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 16:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Did anybody else think "{{w|Optimus Prime}}" when reading "{{w|Amazon Prime}}"? (especially with the context of sentient machines)
I know that Amazon Prime is already a real-life thing, and very connected with deliveries, so probably/maybe not an intentional pun by Randall (and thus probably not worth injecting into the explanation).
However, that won't keep me from now imagining the {{w|Autobot|Autobots}} as {{w|Amazons|Amazon warriors}}.…
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.148|199.27.130.148]] 17:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

;Would it really require a lot of booster rockets?

Can't you just "fall" into the sun for free once you're free of Earth's orbit? Why should it take a lot of booster rockets to get there? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.235.233|198.41.235.233]] 16:26, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
:Because otherwise your rocket will fall down, miss the sun, and fly back to where earth was at the time of the launch. Effectively making it orbit the sun like a comet. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.191|162.158.90.191]] 16:47, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:a) The boosters are required to escape the earth's gravitational influence. After that sun's gravity would do the rest, b) A lot of boosters are required because there are a lot of missiles that need to be launched. --[[User:Desidiot|Desidiot]] ([[User talk:Desidiot|talk]]) 16:41, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:After escaping Earth's well, the nukes still have inherited the velocity of Earth's orbit. They need to reduce their periapsis close to/inside the sun. That would take extreme amounts of Delta v (i.e. energy)... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.43|141.101.79.43]] 16:45, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:And to those skilled at Kerbal Space Program... that uses a simplified 'nearest body rules' system for orbital mechanics. You can (I know I have!) launched a rocket of sufficient power such that it escapes the 'back' end of the planet's influence with a pre-escape velocity somewhat equivalent to the planet's forward velocity, which is then removed as part of the transfer to 'open space', leaving it on a highly eccentric orbit (with reference to the newly supreme gravitational source) that is practically 'straight down' (though because of the Kerbal sun's nature, you still usually sun-skim it on a very tight loop back out again). But that takes more energy than 'merely' getting beyond the planet's influence and end up travelling round the parent body in an orbit only marginally off that of the original planet, the nature (and future) of which depends completely on which direction you eventually broke free. (NB. This was all in an older version, I think they've changed some things about what happens near the sun, but not the basic physics system.)
:However, IRL you are always subject to gravity from ''every'' body. Maybe most of the time one dominates, but there's a fuzzy interface (and zones where influences balance out, hence Legrange Points). Think of it as still having a link to Earth's progression round the Sun, dragging you round, at least until you're at a point in opposition to the Earth, across the Sun (then it's dragging you back that way, encouraging you into a retrograde solar orbit). Albeit that this ''too'' is an oversimplification. But by the time you've got your rocket near opposition to its launch planet, you've expended the energies needed to fall into a non-grazing (i.e. utterly non-missing) 'orbit', and it's a ''lot'' of thrust. Which is what is required of those boosters. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.29|162.158.153.29]] 17:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

:In short (with figures): Earth orbits the Sun at around 30 km/s (roughly 70,000 mph). Escape velocity from Earth's gravity is about 11 km/s at the surface (for comparison, the ISS orbits at 7.6 km/s and it takes a huge rocket to get there). To fly into the Sun starting from the ISS, you'd have to accelerate another 4 km/s to get behind the Earth on its orbital path, and nearly another 30 km/s to come to a dead stop in space and fall into the Sun. Nobody on Earth has ever built a rocket even remotely capable of doing that.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.192.11|162.158.192.11]] 12:48, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

:There is an easier way: use gravity-assist slingshot(s) around other planet(s). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 00:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Scott Manley attempted this with the Real Solar System and Real Fuels mods in KSP, and the result is aptly titled, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNS6VKNXY6s Dropping Things Into The Sun Is Hard.] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.19|108.162.216.19]] 13:33, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

;Nukes
Some exagerations :
* "the amount of them we have now is extreme overkill (17000 held by the U.S.A and Russia alone)" : not so. The amount is roughly sufficient to wipe in fire all major urban areas, but this still would leave pretty much alive.
* "North Korea claimed to have successfully tested its first hydrogen bomb" - indeed, it is a claim, but there is no chance it being true, see http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nuclear-confusion-the-data-suggest-north-korea-s-h-bomb-isn-t/ : a couple of kt is not enough to start a nuclear fusion. {{unsigned ip|141.101.66.41}}

On your first point, it's roughly 14,700 according to USA Today. As for your second, it's only ever stated to be a claim, so the statement is accurate. [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 00:14, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T05:22:35Z

Martin: forgot to sign previous comment

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the updated version of the flowchart, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, Randall fixed the bone count decision, but perhaps you missed the 'minor glitch' described in the mouseover text... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:50, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::::Dammit. Yes I missed that. I have doomed myself to infinite skin grafts. The glitch means the only end point is autopsy. Which is less undesirable, infinite skin grafts or autopsy? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:22, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder whether Randall took some inspiration from [http://buttersafe.com/2015/10/15/a-serious-case-of-spookiness/ Buttersafe]? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
: entirely possible, Randall does list Buttersafe as a web comic he enjoys. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Man I liked the original limb count decision better.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, there was a delicious craziness about it. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:12, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T05:21:27Z

Martin: infinite skin grafts

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the updated version of the flowchart, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, Randall fixed the bone count decision, but perhaps you missed the 'minor glitch' described in the mouseover text... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:50, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::::Dammit. Yes I missed that. I have doomed myself to infinite skin grafts. The glitch means the only end point is autopsy. Which is less undesirable, infinite skin grafts or autopsy?

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder whether Randall took some inspiration from [http://buttersafe.com/2015/10/15/a-serious-case-of-spookiness/ Buttersafe]? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
: entirely possible, Randall does list Buttersafe as a web comic he enjoys. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Man I liked the original limb count decision better.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, there was a delicious craziness about it. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:12, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T05:17:20Z

Martin: Buttersafe

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the updated version of the flowchart, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, Randall fixed the bone count decision, but perhaps you missed the 'minor glitch' described in the mouseover text... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:50, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder whether Randall took some inspiration from [http://buttersafe.com/2015/10/15/a-serious-case-of-spookiness/ Buttersafe]? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
: entirely possible, Randall does list Buttersafe as a web comic he enjoys. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:17, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Man I liked the original limb count decision better.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, there was a delicious craziness about it. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:12, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T05:12:25Z

Martin: delicious craziness

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the updated version of the flowchart, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Yes, Randall fixed the bone count decision, but perhaps you missed the 'minor glitch' described in the mouseover text... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:50, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder whether Randall took some inspiration from [http://buttersafe.com/2015/10/15/a-serious-case-of-spookiness/ Buttersafe]? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 04:48, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Man I liked the original limb count decision better.... [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 04:59, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, there was a delicious craziness about it. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 05:12, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T04:14:28Z

Martin:

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the updated version of the flowchart, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:14, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T04:13:32Z

Martin: /* Explanation */ ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped.

{{comic
| number = 1619
| date = December 21, 2015
| title = Watson Medical Algorithm
| image = watson_medical_algorithm.png
| titletext = Due to a minor glitch, 'discharge patient' does not cause the algorithm to exit, but instead leads back to 'hunt down and capture patient'.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|much more on the different procedures etc.}}

ALERT!!! The comic has been updated since this explanation was first posted: the decisions for number of limbs have been swapped.

IBM's {{w|Watson_(computer)|Watson}} is a natural language system designed to answer questions posed by humans. Recently, IBM has extended Watson to act as a {{w|clinical decision support system}}, using image analytics to aid physicians in medical decision making. In this comic, Randall shows a {{w|Flowchart|flowchart}} representing a possible algorithm for Watson, including bizarre techniques including surgical alteration of a patient to match a height and weight chart and squeezing the patient to remove yellow fluids. Like [[416: Zealous Autoconfig]], this comic pokes fun at a rigid, poorly-designed setup that ends up potentially doing more harm than good.

Modern medicine involves both standard processes and clinical judgement based around years of advanced training. An algorithm like this would have to be incredibly complicated in order to simulate the clinical judgement of a good doctor.

The algorithm depicted treats a patient as more of a machine or mechanical system than a living being, especially through decisions such as:

* Injecting oxygen into patients with low oxygen saturation, rather than treating the root cause
* Removing and inspecting a skeleton, then diagnosing the patient's condition with a bone count
* Dissecting a doctor "for parts" after consulting him or her for advice
* Removing extra limbs from a patient if the count is less than 100
* Determining whether the "build environment" of the patient is sane. This is most probably a reference to the configure script used in the {{w|GNU_build_system|GNU build system}}, which emits "checking whether build environment is sane" as one of its status messages.
* Rinsing the whole patient with a saline solution
* Removing organs from a patient regardless of response to an organ donation request

Other decisions appear to be entirely unrelated to the conditions upon which they are predicated:

* If the patient doesn't rate their pain on a scale from 0-10, sequence their genome, apply a {{w|tourniquet}}, and perform an {{w|autopsy}}
* If the patient's phone's battery is low, defibrillate until the battery is charged, sync photos, then administer general anesthesia
* If the patient is successfully comforted after an oxygen injection, check their medical history and apply skin grafts
* If green fluid is released from the patient, begin to cauterize
* If the patient has 100+ limbs, check their Vitamin D level

The title text implies that, if the patient is so lucky to ever reach one of the two places with the option "discharge patient," a minor glitch will cause to program to go back to the ''hunt down and capture patient'' option which thus force the patient and the program to repeat the process again in an infinite cycle, that will only end once the patient give another rating of their pain level than on the 0-10 scale. Then the program will start to sequence their genome then apply a tourniquet and finally perform an autopsy, on what will in the end for certain be a deceased patient, but maybe not when the autopsy began. This will finally cause the patient to leave the cycle... as a corpse!

This is one of many comics with [[:Category:Flowcharts|flowcharts]], amongst other a recent comic with that very name: [[1488: Flowcharts]].

This is the second comic in a row about health issues with the last comic being [[1618: Cold Medicine]].

The computer's behavior in this comic can be compared to the healthcare robot named Baymax in the movie {{w|Big Hero 6 (film)}}.

==Transcript and Discussion of Medical Appropriateness==
{{incomplete transcript}}
{| border=1
| | Step
| | Medically valid?
| | Conditions and following step
|-
| |
Draw Blood
| background-color:green |
Phlebotomy is a normal early step in the diagnostic process, but not as first and unconditional step
| |
Record patient’s name
|-
| |
Record patient’s name
| background-color:green |

OK
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
|-
| |
Measure Patient’s height and Weight
| |
OK
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
|-
| |
Consult Standard height/weight chart
| |
OK
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
|-
| |
Surgically adjust patient to match
| |
May be considered ethically dubious unless there are [http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/medical-information/procedures-and-treatments/limb-length-difference-and-limb-lengthening sound medical reasons] for doing so. Could be an allusion to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procrustes Procrustes].
| |
Is patient coughing up blood?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient coughing up blood?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
OK, coughing up blood is generally a sign that there is something wrong. Typical causes are respiratory tract infections (e.g. tuberculosis), lung trauma or pulmonary embolism.
| |
Yes: Gather blood and return it to body
|-
| |
No: Is patient still here?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient still here?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Not usually considered a step, but missing patients are a problem in some fields, psychiatry or intensive care for example.
| |
Yes: Record pulse rate
|-
| |
No: Hunt down and capture patient
|-
| |
Hunt down and capture patient
| |
Valid if patient should not have left the bed/unit, but the wording is possibly dubious.
| |
Is patient still here?
|-
| |
Gather blood and return it to body
| |
Dangerous idea in this case due to likelihood of contamination, although if safely done autotransfusion is an accepted medical technique to ensure a matching blood supply prior to a major operation, or to enhance stamina (blood doping)
| |
Record pulse rate
|-
| |
Record pulse rate
| |
OK, but maybe a little late.
| |
Is patient screaming?
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Is patient screaming?
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Very important question, indicating patient is conscious, in pain, and aware pain is bad. First attenders can use it in classifying priorities (quiet patients may be more severely injured). Generally useful in assessing nerve damage, pain relief, etc.
| |
Yes: Ignore
|-
| |
No: Check blood O2 saturation
|-
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 ` |
Check blood O2 saturation
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Only really indicated if the patient is in danger of hypoxia. Generally normal people should have a SpO2 of 98-100%, but in chronic lung disease this can fall as low to 80%, and in premature babies a SpO2 of 90% is usually targeted to avoid problems with retinopathy. If the SpO2 were to fall as low as 50%, the patient would definitely be dead or unconscious.
| |
>50%: Remove and inspect skeleton
|-
| |
<50%: Inject oxygen
|-
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Remove and inspect skeleton
| width="33%" rowspan=2 |
Fatal if patient is still alive when beginning. Also not a valid medical procedure in any way as it is impossible to remove most of the long bones of the body without destroying all surrounding tissue.
| |
Too many bones: Is fluid coming out of patient?
|-
| |
Too few bones: Request consult with human doctor
|-
| |
Request consult with human doctor
| |
Medically valid in the context of obtaining an opinion from a doctor in a different speciality who is better suited to treating the patient.
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
|-
| |
Dissect doctor for parts
| | This may be considered ethically dubious. Possible reference to the Doctor Who episode “{{w|The Girl in the Fireplace}}”
| |
Discharge patient
|-
| |
Discharge patient
| |
Acceptable, but patient would generally be dead by then.
| |
END STATE (before you read the title text)
|-
| |
Is fluid coming out of patient
| |
Unintended fluid release is always a problem. How significant a problem depends on where the fluid came from and if it is supposed to be coming from there. Red generally is due to blood, yellow is due to pus/tissue fluid/lymph and green signifies bacterial infection or bile salts (biliverdin). Could also relate to normal fluids being lost (e.g. urine, saliva, sweat)
| |
|-
| |
Squeeze patient
| |
Could be in the medical context is in providing external ventilation (see iron lung) or other means of removing fluid (e.g. squeezing pus from a boil).
| |
Is fluid coming out of patient
|-
| |
What color?
| |
Never underestimate the number of different types of fluid the body can produce.
| |
|-
| |
Activate sprinklers
| |
Not medically valid. Presumably a reference to how much cleaning up will be required by this stage.
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| |
Subdue patient
| |
Potentially very important if patient is behaving dangerously to themselves and others around them (due to mental health issues e.g. psychosis or drugs) and/or is moving too much to be given treatment.
| |
Apply cream
|-
| |
Apply cream
| |
Medically valid as a form of barrier dressing to improve wound healing.
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
|-
| |
Ask patient to rate pain level
| |
Useful in the sense that it provides the doctor with the means to ensure that the patient is receiving adequate analgesia during conditions of chronic and acute pain.
| |
|-
| |
Massage scalp
| |
This would belong more to the domain of palliative care and reflexology rather than being an accepted medical treatment.
| |
Patient is healthy
|-
| |
Patient is healthy
| |
A subjective assessment of the health patient is often helpful in ruling out certain diagnoses. For example, one is less likely to suspect cancer in a fit, healthy 30 year old than a thin, lethargic 50 year old.
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Admit for observation
| |
Useful in the context of 'watchful waiting', in which the doctor may be unsure if the patient actually has a condition that they suspect that the patient has. By keeping the patient on the ward for a few days, the clinician can monitor the progression of symptoms and rapidly initiate adequate treatment if medically warranted.
| |
|-
| |
Laser eye removal
| |
This is not a standard medical procedure. This could be a pun on laser eye surgery where a laser is used to correct visual problems (e.g. short-sightedness), or laser hair and tattoo removal.
| |
Admit for observation
|-
| |
Sequence genome
| |
Useful in the association of extremely rare point mutations with an organic illness. See for instance the Genome 10K Project or the Cancer Genome Atlas. Or in diagnosing extremely rare mutations that are not picked up by most commercial DNA screening tests (e.g. kidney failure due to INF2 mutation).
| |
Apply tourniquet
|-
| |
Apply tourniquet
| |
Useful to stop acute bleeding from an injured extremity, but if it is drawn too tightly it can cause neuromuscular damage.
| |
Perform autopsy
|-
| |
Perform autopsy
| | Fatal if patient is still alive when beginning.
| | END STATE (taking the title text into account, the only possible one)
|-
| |
Inject oxygen
| |
May be fatal as injecting gases directly to the blood vessels can cause a serious embolism if it blocks blood flow to the brain or coronary arteries. However, if the oxygen is injected slowly into the venous circulation, it may be survivable as the bubbles may simply collect in the lungs where the oxygen is then slowly resorbed into the blood.
| |
Comfort patient
|-
| |
Comfort patient
| |
Psychological support to the patient and relatives is often useful after breaking news of a poor prognosis. It may also be useful in subduing the agitated or psychotic patient.
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| |
Review medical history
| |
Important early step, rather too late and conditional.
| |
Skin grafts
|-
| |
Skin grafts
| |
Only indicated if massive areas of the skin are damaged (typically due to burns)
| |
|-
| |
Count number of limbs
| |
Not really relevant in medicine, but may be of use to know the reason behind any missing or extra limbs on seeing the patient though a through review of the medical history will render this point moot. Probably a little late to be noticing this now.
| |
|-
| |
Remove extra limbs
| |
Medically indicated in cases of polymelia either due to cosmetic purposes or because the extra limbs pose a direct threat to the health of the baby.
| |
Subdue patient
|-
| |
Measure vitamin D
| |
Valid in diagnosis of bone related issues, for example if multiple or comminuted fractures were being counted as additional limbs/bones.
| |
|-
| |
Check whether build environment is sane
| |
Could be technical reference to the installation of the algorithm in the robot, or could relate to the sanity of:
* The robot doctor
* The patient undergoing this procedure (before or after reaching this part of the process)
* The person who programmed the robot to perform this flowchart
* The person who allowed this state of affairs to occur (I'm looking at you [[Black-Hat]])

NB: Whether the build environment is sane is irrelevant to the flowchart.
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
|-
| |
Rinse patient with saline solution
| |
Tepid sponging may be indicated if the patient has a high fever. Could also refer to internally rinsing patient with saline solution i.e. providing intravenous sodium chloride to boost circulating volume or to perform peritoneal dialysis.
| |
|-
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
| |
Invalid in medical terminology, could be a technological metaphor for the patient's consciousness or stamina. "Your life-force is running out"
| |
|-
| |
Defibrillate
| |
Indicated in cases where there is ventricular fibrillation, and to a lesser extent in atrial fibrillation (chemical cardioversion with adenosine is usually preferred)
| |
Is patient phone battery low?
|-
| |
Sync photos from camera
| |
Definitely invalid. Could refer to the robot attempting to backup photos from a camera before attempting to repair it/attempting to back-up patient's consciousness.
| |
Administer general anesthesia
|-
| |
Administer general anesthesia
| |
Valid, but not at this stage. Only used when the procedure will invoke unnecessary distress or pain to the patient if they were to be awake beforehand.
| |
Discharge patient
|-
| |
Blood loss?
| |
Useful. Patient may die if this clinical sign is missed.
| |
|-
| |
Patient address changed?
| |
Useful to ensure that the organisation has current contact details for the patient in the event that they may need to contact the patient (e.g. to arrange further appointments)
| |
|-
| |
Request organ donation
| |
Generally done prior to registering an individual for a driving licence or to a medical practice, or to the relatives of the deceased if consent had not been acquired beforehand.
|Remove organs
|-
| |
Remove organs
| |
The only organs which can be safely removed from a living person without resulting in serious, chronic medical issues are the kidneys/lungs (only one can be removed), spleen, part of the liver (as long as one lobe is left it can regrow to its original size) and colon (usually consisting of the appendix only). With some serious lifestyle modifications, the pancreas, pituitary gland, frontal lobe of brain, half of the brain, adrenal glands, bladder and most of the gut can be removed. The heart can be removed from the body and replaced with an artificial pump for a few months at the most. However, such organ removals are only indicated if there is a genuine clinical need to do so due to the non-negligible risk of death associated with these operations.
| Discharge patient
|-
| |
Discharge patient
| |
| END STATE (before you read the title text)

|}

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Artificial Intelligence]]
[[Category:Flowcharts]]

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T04:04:57Z

Martin: reply to analysis of my proposed least undesirable path

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Nope, that path doesn't work. First, injecting oxygen may do more harm than good, as previously mentioned. Second, you'll be unconscious, so comforting will be unsuccessful. Third, having fewer than 100 limbs actually leads to the path where some are removed (possibly an error in the chart?). Fourth, due to the bug, discharge leads to hunting you down and capturing you again. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.161|108.162.249.161]] 01:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
::First, it may or it may not... I'm hoping not! (see above for discussion of possible ways to "inject" oxygen) Second, I'll be conscious again because my oxygen saturation has now been restored, so comforting is possible. Third, please look at the flowchart again, fewer than 100 leads to measuring Vitamin D. Fourth, there is no pathway shown from discharge to hunting down and capturing: I assume that START is admission to the hospital, therefore once discharged from hospital I have escaped Watson's clutches. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 04:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-22T03:46:36Z

Martin: removed my previous error. Soz.

Talk:1618: Cold Medicine

2015-12-21T22:59:20Z

Martin: Kaolin and Morphine

How hard would it actually be to turn street drugs back into cold medicine? [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 05:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I'm unsure on the actual scientific accuracy of this, given it is a fake paper, but http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 05:49, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

This is in reference to recent studies that have proven that Phenylephrine is no worse than a placebo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylephrine
http://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(10)60240-2/abstract
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.138|162.158.2.138]] 06:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I keep hearing about this Placebo. It seems like a very potent medicine that is good for everything. Where can you buy it? {{unsigned ip|162.158.90.213}}
:Just get anything that is labeled 'homeopathic'. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.101|162.158.153.101]] 10:55, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

:In more than 100 countries it is manufactured under the brand name {{w|Tic Tac}} and available even in supermarkets. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

:The web site http://www.penisreductionpills.com/ openly admits to selling only placebos, perhaps you could try there? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.148|199.27.130.148]] 21:04, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

-I don't know about the paper specifically, but by the principle of microscopic reversibility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microscopic_reversibility), not only can you turn the products back into the reagents, you can do so using the exact same mechanisms. Chemical reactions are always going both ways, and they will tend towards the equilibrium from the higher concentration ~pure meth. That does not say anything about practicality, I am not versed in meth-synthesis, but maybe it involves a process with a product harder to acquire than pseudoerphine (maybe because it is useless and simply disposed of) which would be required as a reagent in this case. I don't know. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.195|162.158.91.195]] 00:29, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

----

I don't think it's suggesting turning meth back to medicine. I think it's a reference to heroin and at least a handful(?) of other now-illegal drugs originally introduced purely as medicinal products. [[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 12:13, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:- i respectfully disagree, i reckon its exactly suggesting that ... Need cold medicine so bad i would buy illegal drugs made from cold medicine and seek to reverse the process. Obviously not the most practical way of getting cold medicine ... but thats the joke.[[User:Plm-qaz snr|Plm-qaz snr]] ([[User talk:Plm-qaz snr|talk]]) 13:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
::I concur with Plm-qaz snr --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

Codeine was originally a cough suppressant. It was and is the most effective and reliable cough medicine available and very safe in the usual quantities. You can't get it, though -- for an ordinary cough -- because some people like to use a lot of it for fun and sometimes get addicted to large quantities of it. You could synthesize it or an analogue of it from heroin or oxycodone about as safely as any kitchen chemistry because they share the same opium base.

The principal cold medicines are cough suppressants (codeine is best -- other things work but much worse), decongestant (pseudoephedrine works great, phenylephrine is no more effective than a placebo), mild anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, and antihistamines for anti-sneezing (there are many good ones based on Seldane like Claritin). Most people like to combine those at nighttime with a good mild tranquil sleep promoter -- I recommend whisky or rum. Note that pseudoephedrine is banned in some states of the USA such as Oregon. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.65|108.162.216.65]] 13:58, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

I take the title text differently - that since buying pseudoephedrine-containing drugs legally in a larger than minimal quantity (e.g. to stockpile them at home to have them at hand when you need them) already makes you a criminal suspect with 100% certainty (because you have to show your ID), it may be safer to buy illegal drugs on the black market, where you have at least some chance of not being caught. As for turning meth back to PE - it is possible for sure, since all chemical processes are reversible in one way or another, but I am not versed enough in organic chemistry to say if it is easier or harder than the other way round. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.224|162.158.90.224]] 12:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Burning is chemical process. Creating wood from ash is generally considered unpractical. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, it is impractical. However, due to one of the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics being the fact that information can't be destroyed, only obfuscated, scatter, maybe even left out of reach, but never destroyed, all the information needed to turn the ash back into wood is still in the universe. All that is left to do is retrieve all that information and figure out a way by which everything can become uncombusted, and you have it turned back into wood. Sure, it would be easier to use the ash as fertilizer to help grow another tree, but it isn't impossible.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 14:50, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

You'd have to reacquire and reassemble not just the ash, but the smoke and gases too. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 05:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
-----

Today I learned that you can make methamphetamine from Pseudoephedrine! [[Special:Contributions/188.114.106.173|188.114.106.173]] 18:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

From the start of the pseudoephedrine/meth fiasco, the only thing I on my mind was "what a waste of perfectly good Sudafed!" [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:09, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

Is it worth mentioning that he posted a comic relating to colds two weeks prior? ([[1612: Colds]]) Perhaps Randall is in a rather extended bout and at the point where buying meth to synthesise pseudo just seems like the logical thing to do. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.159|108.162.250.159]] 03:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
:Very much. I had already incorporated into the explanation that Cueball = Randall here, at least in the title text. So I will add your observation as another reason to believe this. Was wondering why no one else could see that it was Randall who had a cold. And now it seems like it is a rather long one. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

This is actually semi serious. When I have a cold, literally the only thing that works is pseudoephedrine. And Sudafed, which is the registered label for pseudoephedrine, now sells Sudafed without the pseudoephedrine. In a cold induced daze I have actually managed to buy the not pseudoephedrine Sudafed, and only realized my mistake several days later when the cold symptoms aren't going away. "Give me the stuff I need an id to buy" is a pretty reasonable response, although of course asking for one of everything is a bit over the top and includes things that aren't pseudoephedrine. {{unsigned ip|173.245.63.144}}
:This (as the comment above) also make a lot of sense for this comic. Will try to include it in the explanation- --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

The explanation currently says "...who as anyone else is very likely to have a cold at this time of year (released in December)". I am about to edit this to be more region specific, because many parts of the world are hot in December (including Australia where I live) which means colds are uncommon at this time of year. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:54, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
-----

In the United Kingdom at least one cough suppressant available OTC contains a small amount of morphine. {{unsigned ip|162.158.153.29}}
: You can also buy morphine OTC for an upset tummy, in the form "Kaolin and Morphine". [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:55:27Z

Martin:

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). It could even mean a blood transfusion, because there is oxygen carried by the red blood cells (appropriate). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: So having exactly 4 (the most common number of limbs for a human to have) results in removal of one or more limbs? Ouch. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:54:04Z

Martin:

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: So having exactly 4 (the most common number of limbs for a human to have) results in removal of one or more limbs? Ouch. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:51:59Z

Martin: least undesirable path

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: So having exactly 4 (the most common number of limbs for a human to have) results in removal of one or more limbs? Ouch. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think this may be the least undesirable path through the flowchart:
START > Draw blood (enough to lower oxygen saturation to 49%) > Record name > Measure height and weight > Measured height/weight happens to match standard chart exactly > No surgery needed > Not coughing up blood > Still here > Record pulse rate > No screaming (unconscious due to low O2 saturation) > O2 saturation below 50% > Inject oxygen (I really hope this means intubate & actively ventilate with O2) > Comforting succesful > Review medical history > Skin grafts > Fewer than 100 limbs > Good vitamin D > Check build environment > Rinse with saline > Phone battery level is high > Sync photos > General anesthesia > Discharge [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:51, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:40:36Z

Martin: human centipede

Build environment is still insane since comic #371. {{unsigned ip|162.158.2.139}}

(Above poster please sign comments with four tildes)

I'm trying to picture Baymax using this algorithm. {{unsigned|International Space Station}}

:"OK, who swapped out Baymax's programming card with a Doomba AI?" [[User:VectorLightning|VectorLightning]] ([[User talk:VectorLightning|talk]]) 08:02, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, at least the autoconfig isn't as threatening as #416.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.179|108.162.245.179]] 07:00, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I suspect that the extra limbs should be removed when there are 100+ and Vitamin D levels checked when the nmbr of limbs is in an acceptable range... does IBM use a ticketing system? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.194|162.158.91.194]] 08:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Unfortunately the algorithm as shown in the cartoon has the conditions for those two steps exactly the other way around, making even less sense medically. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:30, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

It seems a normal patient would end up mostly unscathed and in an infinite loop in the lower right corner. [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 09:01, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:Uhm no. You would normally have an oxygen level above 50% of what is expected. (It should be close to 100% if I understand [http://www.nonin.com/Normal-Oxygen-Level this correctly], which I may not...). This means you have had your skeleton removed. If you survived this you are squeezed until fluid comes out. (Probably not necessary after the skelerectomy). But then you end up in the lower right corner. Of course you can also get there after just getting an oxygen injection, but only directly if you are not comforted when the program tries. If you where comforted you will lose some limbs. And then end up in the lower right corner. No matter what if you are still OK (could be possible) when reaching here, you will be asked about your pain level. And even if you start by saying 0-8 many many times, getting as many scalp massages, you will just get the same question, until you say 10 then your eyes will be removed. But no matter what, if you are asked such a stupid question enough times you will surely at some point say something else than 0-10, and then you will die, as this answer will take you down the last path of the program (and only exit of the cycle according the to glitch mentioned in the title text), and this will end up with the program performing an autopsy on you, thus cutting you up and removing all organs etc. So no you will not be able to go unscathed infinitely, and even if you kept saying 0-8 you would eventually die from thirst. ;) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:24, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::Yes, normal oxygen saturation is 98-100% in air. If it drops below 95% you will be in trouble, if it drops below 85% you're likely dead. [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 09:54, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
::: Actually you can go a lot lower than 85% and still recover. You lose consciousness at about 55% on average, so you could dip below 50% for maybe a minute and still recover with appropriate treatment. It is unclear exactly what "inject oxygen" means, it could mean intubate and actively ventilate with oxygen (appropriate) or it might mean use a syringe & needle to literally inject an oxygen embolus (which would do more harm than good). [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:28, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This might also partially be a reference to machine learning, which Watson apparently uses: badly designed ML systems often build models which produce the expected results for the training data, but do something unexpected or wrong with real data. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overfitting#Machine_learning]. That said ... 'dissect doctor for parts' doesn't seem like a reasonable response to any training input ;) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.208|162.158.39.208]] 10:41, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The noted "unrelated actions" aren't all entirely unrelated. The coughing blood one is interpreting backwards (so "is patient not coughing up blood because the patient is not here to do so?"), the vitamin D one is somewhat logical (vit D is part of the chain that converts calcium to bone, low vit D can cause bone loss, but high vit D is basically harmless), and the green fluid is slightly sane but too vague (logic appears to be that green fluid indicates severely infected and/or necrotic tissue, for which cauterizing might be a valid treatment step in extreme situations). Weirdly specific might be a better header? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.197|141.101.106.197]] 11:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

So what happens if the skeleton has exactly the right number of bones? --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.71|162.158.153.71]] 12:32, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: Indeed this case is not covered, thus making the algorithm faulty even on an abstract logical level. --[[User:Svenman|Svenman]] ([[User talk:Svenman|talk]]) 14:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: What is the "right" number anyway? The number of bones in a normal human is not constant: it changes from 270 at birth to 206 as an adult. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:35, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

the Request organ donation/Remove organs part reminds me of Live Organ Transplants segment in ''{{w|Monty Python's The Meaning of Life}}''. --[[User:Valepert|valepert]] ([[User talk:Valepert|talk]]) 12:53, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

100 could be a reference to 4 in binary (4+ limbs / less than 4 limbs) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.39|141.101.99.39]] 12:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:I believe you're correct. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
:: The binary explanation does make more sense than a human centipede. Although, given the general grossness of the comic, I'm not going to completely rule out the human centipede idea. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
: So having exactly 4 (the most common number of limbs for a human to have) results in removal of one or more limbs? Ouch. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:40, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I think GlaDOS is a descendent from this Watson. [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 15:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The part about squeezing and looking for the color of the ooze seems to reference Humorism. The colors match the four humors. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.188|162.158.91.188]] 15:31, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised he didn't make a Dr Watson joke/reference.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

This algorithm certainly does not exit without the death of the patient, however, such a death can result from old age as long as the patient can make it to the bottom right infinite loop and continuously reports a number from 0-9 for pain. It IS possible to make it to that loop alive. Extremely low blood oxygen levels have been recorded in healthy Everest climbers, but the article I read gave the results in kilopascals, not in % so I don't know how that converts. However, repeatedly reporting a pain level of 0-8 would result in continuous scalp massages, which may actually be considered pleasant. [[User:Kashim|Kashim]] ([[User talk:Kashim|talk]]) 20:11, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:35:34Z

Martin: number of bones not constant

Talk:1619: Watson Medical Algorithm

2015-12-21T22:28:51Z

Martin: You lose consciousness at about 55% on average

Talk:1595: 30 Days Hath September

2015-12-21T03:51:50Z

Martin: fixing indentation

THIS RHYME IS TERRIBLE. You can slot the months into it in nearly any order and it will still scan. The knuckle trick is far superior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_days_hath_September#Knuckle_Mnemonic
[[User:CLAVDIVS|CLAVDIVS]] ([[User talk:CLAVDIVS|talk]]) 06:00, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

:I use the knuckle trick too. And I am Dutch, so not only the "German, French, Swiss, Romanians and Belgians" use that trick. I count from the index finger and reverse on the little finger for July and August. Might not be representative for all Dutch, I've heard the rhyme too. (suitably translated) -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.196|141.101.104.196]] 09:36, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
:I'm floored by the claim that the 'knuckle trick' is mostly used in Europe. I learned it from my grandmother, who never lived outside the state of Texas in over 90 years, and she was a third-generation American, ultimately of Irish/Scottish/Welsh descent. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.16|108.162.221.16]] 12:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

:From Jan to Jul(1~7) its odd numbers 31 days, while from Aug to Dec(8~12) its even numbers 31. Feb is 28 or 29. Much shorter. - MythSearcher {{unsigned ip|162.158.176.35}}
::Or (in other words) subtract 7 if number of month is above 7. Then odd always means 31 and even 30 or February. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.159|162.158.91.159]] 07:39, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
::: Or, in yet other words, if (number of month) mod 7 is odd. But the knuckle trick is so much easier to teach to young children... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.192.35|162.158.192.35]] 08:34, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
:As above, except that I use Hallowe'en and New Year as checks! {{unsigned ip|141.101.104.61}}
:I come from the UK. I have never heard the rhyme and everyone I know uses the knuckle trick. Though London is not exactly representative of the whole country... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.165|162.158.90.165]] 09:51, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
:I've been taught the knuckle mnemonic as a child; it went index finger to little finger, then to other hand starting from index finger again. Incidentally, I'm Russian (as opposed to German, French, Swiss, Romanian, Belgian, or Dutch). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.81.77|141.101.81.77]] 10:00, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Datum point: British, was taught the rhyme ('alone'-rhyming version) when young but then learnt the (apparently widespread) 'knuckle-trick' from I-don't-know-where. Little-finger knuckle is January, index-finger knuckle is July, then right-hand in reverse, for me, until out of months... So I tend to use the latter more, now. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.39.224|162.158.39.224]] 17:23, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
:I'm American and I also recall hearing the finger trick in school. I don't recall which ones I used though. At some point I just remembered that they alternate long/short but July and August are both long (I think my dad telling me the story of how Julius Caesar and Caesar Agustus both wanted a long month named after them was the reason) and just counted mentally, and at this point I just have each one memorized that way. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.34|173.245.54.34]] 05:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

I always heard "30 days hath september, april june and november, all the rest have 31, except february alone. And that has 28 days clear, with 29 in each leap year."
How do people remember it if it doesn't rhyme?- madness! {{unsigned ip|162.158.38.218}}
:Personally I could swear I heard "except for February which has none" as a child, and recall thinking as a child that made no sense. However, literally none of the other variants work- "alone" doesn't rhyme with "one" (...even though they should; are there any accents that pronounce those the same?), and it also doesn't scan; this comic actually sent me to Wikipedia to look; turns out they have a massive list of variants but the lack of rhyming there is painful. The only ones that work are those that give up on describing February (ex. "Except for February—and that's no fun!"). I strongly suspect based on the lack of rhyming that the rhyme originated with something like "which has none" and was modified to make sense at the expense of rhyming. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.34|173.245.54.34]] 05:28, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
::While, in my normal inflection of speech, "wonn" certainly doesn't rhyme with "al-own", I find it quite easy to go for a nearly-but-not-quite rhyme by extnding the first and shortening the second. There's worse 'rhymes' out there. Traditional local accents also vary a lot in my area, between towns a few mere miles apart (e.g. "book" => "buk" or "bewk") and I'm sure I could find some old person who still spoke a pure enough form of their own local dialect to effortlessly pull this trick off, without even trying, even if it doesn't match in the modern 'smeared-English'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.185|141.101.75.185]] 14:07, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
:No no no, its "30 days hath November, August, March and December..." --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 11:31, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

::Pudder, No no no no no no, March and August and December have 31 days! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.163|108.162.249.163]] 23:30, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

In Spain both rhyme and knuckle are well-known, and usually taught to children (the rhyme suitably [https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendario_gregoriano#Duraci.C3.B3n_del_a.C3.B1o_gregoriano translated], of course). For some reason, I've always found it easier to just remember the number of days by memory than resorting to any mnemonic trick. I tend to use the known numbers to check if I remember the mnemonic correctly, and not vice versa. Also, it's usual to see people wondering which number corresponds to which month (e.g. October is month 10), which I also remember no problem since I have memory. [[User:Jojonete|Jojonete]] ([[User talk:Jojonete|talk]]) 12:37, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
::Of course if we hadn't moved the start of the year from March to January, September, October, November and December would make much more sense as months 7, 8, 9 and 10! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.204|162.158.34.204]] 15:30, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
:I'm from Denmark and here I have heard of the knuckle method, but we do not have a rhyme that is so well know that I have heard of it (but I'm sure someone has.) But as the Jojonete wrote I also just know which month have how many days by memory etc. But I have told my six year old daughter about the knuckle method. I think it is great that it works. And everyone knows that February is the one with 28 days, so that is not the difficult part to remember... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:50, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I tried the mouseover text trick and got "7" for October. Someone help! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.119|162.158.255.119]] 17:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

:You are very funny. The mouseover text trick works great when your app is set to "month" view, but fails if set to "week" view. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.163|108.162.249.163]] 23:30, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

October of all months seems like a pretty easy one to keep track of, simply because October 31st is a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween pretty popular holiday.] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.220.11|108.162.220.11]] 18:48, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
: A holiday where? Why would it be a holiday? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.33|198.41.238.33]] 03:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

;brain adaptation ridicule…celebration
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.5|141.101.66.5]] 09:44, 27 October 2015 (UTC) me thinks that while the absurdity of these life hacks has been explained well the deeper issue might yet be missed here: the cultural shift from relying on mental recall and concentration to adapting your brain to rely on technology more than before, reduced attention span and reduced factual memory (better childhood telephone number recall than children's mobile numbers recall) and optimized lookup routines {{unsigned ip|141.101.66.5}}

<big>digital amnesia!</big> --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.5|141.101.66.5]] 10:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-34454264 --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.5|141.101.66.5]] 10:38, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

+ http://www.business2community.com/brandviews/wyzowl/its-official-we-have-shorter-attention-spans-than-goldfish-infographic-01353885#w1RCPWdWy1LoDlvI.97 --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.5|141.101.66.5]] 10:48, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

My uncle had a nonsense rhyme based on this: 
Thirty days hath September, 
April, June, and no wonder 
All the rest ate peanut butter, 
Except Grandma, who rode a tricycle 
about this color. (holds hand 3 feet above ground) 
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.26|108.162.216.26]] 13:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Yay! I came here specifically to post this version, but was beaten to it. It's from the Napolean XIV album from 1966: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvABMymQz_k {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.142}}

[[File:pianomonths.png]] --[[User:Zom-B|Zom-B]] ([[User talk:Zom-B|talk]]) 08:09, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually you just have to remeber August. Start with January, 31 days. Now it alternates between less-than 31 days and 31 days until July. August does not fit in with 31 days. Start alternating again until december. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.239|198.41.242.239]] 14:38, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Alternate calendar system that would make remembering month lengths easier:

Jan 31
Feb 30
Mar 31
Apr 30
May 31
Jun 30
Jul 31
Aug 30
Sep 31
Oct 30
Nov 30/leap year 31
Dec 30

To convert back to Gregorian calendar:
Jan 1 - Feb 28 same as Gregorian.
Feb 29 - Aug 30 add two to the day to get back to the Gregorian calendar.
Sep 1 - Dec 30 add one to the day

Please correct the conversion factors if they are incorrect![[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.30|141.101.104.30]]

1618: Cold Medicine

2015-12-20T21:59:23Z

Martin: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1618
| date = December 18, 2015
| title = Cold Medicine
| image = cold_medicine.png
| titletext = Seriously considering buying some illegal drugs to try to turn them back into cold medicine.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Cueball]] is, in this comic, probably representing [[Randall]], who as anyone else living in {{w|Geographical zone|The North Temperate Zone}} is very likely to have a {{w|Common cold|cold}} at this time of year (released in December). The way the title text is phrased makes this even more likely, see below. Also it is only two weeks ago Randall posted another comic about a cold works: [[1612: Colds]]. It thus seems that he is suffering from a long lasting cold, that he just can't get rid off.

Cueball is evidently suffering from a cold and he is searching the shelves labeled cold and {{w|Influenza|Flu}} at a {{w|pharmacy}} for any kind of '''cold medicine''' (hence the title), to alleviate his symptoms. Note that this all he can hope for, as there are still {{w|Common_cold#Management|no cure}} that really helps getting rid of the cold faster. All medication can do is help relieving the symptoms until the body's own {{w|immune system}} takes care of the relatively harmless cold virus.

After looking at several different options Cueball is clearly unsatisfied with what he finds. Either he doesn't feel that any of the unmonitored drugs available on the serve-yourself-shelf is useful, or he is actually too sick to properly ascertain which medicine he needs. In the end he approaches the counter and asks the {{w|pharmacist}} ([[Ponytail]]) to give him one of every kind of cold medicine which requires an ID to purchase. ('''Warning''': Taking lots of different medicines together could harm, or even kill you, because certain combinations of medications interact in ways that make them dangerous or even lethal). But that is not the message that Ponytail tries to give him, instead she tries to warn him that he would end up on some watchlist, presumably one of the government agencies ({{w|FBI}}, {{w|CIA}} etc.) But she never get to finish her sentence because Cueball is beyond caring and tells her this.

In the USA, cold medicines containing {{w|pseudoephedrine}} are kept behind the counter and IDs purchasing them are monitored, because pseudoephedrine can be used to make the illegal drug {{w|methamphetamine}} or meth (a more potent version of {{w|amphetamine}}). However, it is also an extremely effective {{w|decongestant}} (a pharmaceutical drug that is used to relieve {{w|nasal congestion}}/plugged nose), much more so than the common substitutes {{w|phenylephrine}} and {{w|oxymetazoline}}. This could be one reason why Cueball just requests all kinds of cold medicines of amongst other this type; he does not appear to care what exactly he is purchasing, believing that his one criterion will provide him medicine powerful enough for his illness. It may also be that he is just too sick to care or realize that this will arouse suspicion of him being a drug dealer, or to recognize the need to select only one medication of these type, to avoid a potentially deadly overdose.

This could be a reference to the medicine with the brand name {{w|Sudafed}}, sold as an over the counter decongestants with pseudoephedrine as the active ingredient. Now they also sell a different type of medicine for decongestants with the same brand name but without pseudoephedrine, but with for instance phenylephrine, which has recently been deemed only as effective as {{w|placebo}}... If you can buy this from the shelf (because it does not contain the drug precursor) then you could easily get home with the once effective Sudafed, only to realize later that, since you bought it on the shelf it does not help you at all. This could offer another explanation for Cueball's request and outburst in the final panel.

The title text seems to be Randall's own comment on how badly he is affected by his cold. He thus, humorously, suggest that he is now ready to purchase illegal drugs (this would then be ''meth'') in order to turn it back into a cold medicine (i.e. pseudoephedrine). This would not be feasible or safe to do, but may may be a reference to this spoof paper: ''[http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf A Simple and Convenient Synthesis of Pseudoephedrine From N-Methylamphetamine''], a take on the long-going joke on the recent difficulty in obtaining pseudoephedrine, i.e. it is now easier to get your hands on the illegal drug made from it... It is a humorous exaggeration of how far Randall is willing to go to get the best cold medicine, and the potency of the drugs needed to treat his apparently debilitating illness. There are many illegal drugs that when first synthesized were planned to use as a medical drug, but then later abused by drug addicts, but given the subject of the comic, the title text obviously refers to meth.

==Transcript==

:[Cueball is standing in a drug store, with a drug in his hand he has taken from the shelf he is standing next to. The shelf is labeled.]
:Cueball: *Sniffle*
:Label: Cold &Flu

:[Cueball is standing alone, examining some medicine he is holding up, while having some other medicine in the other hand.]
:Cueball: *Cough*
:Cueball: *Sniff*

:[Cueball continues examining more medicine. Looking down on one in his hand, having another in the other hand and there are also three packages at his feet.]
:Cueball: Ughhh...

:[Cueball is at the labeled counter in the drug store with computer etc. Ponytail is behind the counter.]
:Counter label: Sale
:Cueball: Just gimme one of every kind of cold medicine you need ID to buy.
:Ponytail: You'll go on the watchlist for—
:Cueball: Don't care.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]

Talk:1618: Cold Medicine

2015-12-20T21:54:02Z

Martin: Australia

How hard would it actually be to turn street drugs back into cold medicine? [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 05:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I'm unsure on the actual scientific accuracy of this, given it is a fake paper, but http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 05:49, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

This is in reference to recent studies that have proven that Phenylephrine is no worse than a placebo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylephrine
http://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(10)60240-2/abstract
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.138|162.158.2.138]] 06:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I keep hearing about this Placebo. It seems like a very potent medicine that is good for everything. Where can you buy it? {{unsigned ip|162.158.90.213}}
:Just get anything that is labeled 'homeopathic'. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.101|162.158.153.101]] 10:55, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

:In more than 100 countries it is manufactured under the brand name {{w|Tic Tac}} and available even in supermarkets. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

-I don't know about the paper specifically, but by the principle of microscopic reversibility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microscopic_reversibility), not only can you turn the products back into the reagents, you can do so using the exact same mechanisms. Chemical reactions are always going both ways, and they will tend towards the equilibrium from the higher concentration ~pure meth. That does not say anything about practicality, I am not versed in meth-synthesis, but maybe it involves a process with a product harder to acquire than pseudoerphine (maybe because it is useless and simply disposed of) which would be required as a reagent in this case. I don't know. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.195|162.158.91.195]] 00:29, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

----

I don't think it's suggesting turning meth back to medicine. I think it's a reference to heroin and at least a handful(?) of other now-illegal drugs originally introduced purely as medicinal products. [[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 12:13, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:- i respectfully disagree, i reckon its exactly suggesting that ... Need cold medicine so bad i would buy illegal drugs made from cold medicine and seek to reverse the process. Obviously not the most practical way of getting cold medicine ... but thats the joke.[[User:Plm-qaz snr|Plm-qaz snr]] ([[User talk:Plm-qaz snr|talk]]) 13:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
::I concur with Plm-qaz snr --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

Codeine was originally a cough suppressant. It was and is the most effective and reliable cough medicine available and very safe in the usual quantities. You can't get it, though -- for an ordinary cough -- because some people like to use a lot of it for fun and sometimes get addicted to large quantities of it. You could synthesize it or an analogue of it from heroin or oxycodone about as safely as any kitchen chemistry because they share the same opium base.

The principal cold medicines are cough suppressants (codeine is best -- other things work but much worse), decongestant (pseudoephedrine works great, phenylephrine is no more effective than a placebo), mild anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, and antihistamines for anti-sneezing (there are many good ones based on Seldane like Claritin). Most people like to combine those at nighttime with a good mild tranquil sleep promoter -- I recommend whisky or rum. Note that pseudoephedrine is banned in some states of the USA such as Oregon. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.65|108.162.216.65]] 13:58, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

I take the title text differently - that since buying pseudoephedrine-containing drugs legally in a larger than minimal quantity (e.g. to stockpile them at home to have them at hand when you need them) already makes you a criminal suspect with 100% certainty (because you have to show your ID), it may be safer to buy illegal drugs on the black market, where you have at least some chance of not being caught. As for turning meth back to PE - it is possible for sure, since all chemical processes are reversible in one way or another, but I am not versed enough in organic chemistry to say if it is easier or harder than the other way round. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.224|162.158.90.224]] 12:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Burning is chemical process. Creating wood from ash is generally considered unpractical. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, it is impractical. However, due to one of the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics being the fact that information can't be destroyed, only obfuscated, scatter, maybe even left out of reach, but never destroyed, all the information needed to turn the ash back into wood is still in the universe. All that is left to do is retrieve all that information and figure out a way by which everything can become uncombusted, and you have it turned back into wood. Sure, it would be easier to use the ash as fertilizer to help grow another tree, but it isn't impossible.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 14:50, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

You'd have to reacquire and reassemble not just the ash, but the smoke and gases too. [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 05:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
-----

Today I learned that you can make methamphetamine from Pseudoephedrine! [[Special:Contributions/188.114.106.173|188.114.106.173]] 18:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

From the start of the pseudoephedrine/meth fiasco, the only thing I on my mind was "what a waste of perfectly good Sudafed!" [[User:Schiffy|Schiffy]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|Speak to me]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|What I've done]]) 02:09, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

Is it worth mentioning that he posted a comic relating to colds two weeks prior? ([[1612: Colds]]) Perhaps Randall is in a rather extended bout and at the point where buying meth to synthesise pseudo just seems like the logical thing to do. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.159|108.162.250.159]] 03:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
:Very much. I had already incorporated into the explanation that Cueball = Randall here, at least in the title text. So I will add your observation as another reason to believe this. Was wondering why no one else could see that it was Randall who had a cold. And now it seems like it is a rather long one. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

This is actually semi serious. When I have a cold, literally the only thing that works is pseudoephedrine. And Sudafed, which is the registered label for pseudoephedrine, now sells Sudafed without the pseudoephedrine. In a cold induced daze I have actually managed to buy the not pseudoephedrine Sudafed, and only realized my mistake several days later when the cold symptoms aren't going away. "Give me the stuff I need an id to buy" is a pretty reasonable response, although of course asking for one of everything is a bit over the top and includes things that aren't pseudoephedrine. {{unsigned ip|173.245.63.144}}
:This (as the comment above) also make a lot of sense for this comic. Will try to include it in the explanation- --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

-----

The explanation currently says "...who as anyone else is very likely to have a cold at this time of year (released in December)". I am about to edit this to be more region specific, because many parts of the world are hot in December (including Australia where I live) which means colds are uncommon at this time of year. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:54, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1616: Lunch

2015-12-14T21:59:59Z

Martin: salt & blood pressure

... I don't think pizza is that bad. Those are sort of things people could really eat ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

That's not that gross, IMO. Tomato sauce is pretty much thought of as thick tomato juice. White bread. Salt. Normal things. And this seems to be assuming I wouldn't want to eat a brick of cheese. I do this regularly-ish with brie. [[User:International Space Station|International Space Station]] ([[User talk:International Space Station|talk]]) 13:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:Cut the cheese to thick slices and put it on pieces of bread to make a few sandwiches, spread the tomato sauce on other pieces of bread for a few more sandwiches. Put the salt on the tomato sauce, or on a few other pieces of bread. Completely nice lunch (though with the ingredient amounts pictured, it would be a lunch for 2-3 people). Incidentally, when I listed the ingredients to my mother, she immediately said "pizza Margarita". --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 19:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not American, so what does he mean by cheese and grease soaked vegetables? {{unsigned ip|162.158.153.101}}
:The cheese is a common ingredient in the pizza seen in the comic, which might be a plain cheese pizza. As for the veggies, this might be a reference to french fries, which is essentially potatoes cooked in a deep fryer which is filled with oil (though I can't be sure with the English definition correlation between grease and oil). {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.148}}
:On this side of the lake pizza's made with dough (white bread), tomato sauce, cheese, and apparently salt the way Randall makes it. Some people put veggies on their pizza, which later get greasy and oily thanks to the cheese; nothing to do with french fries, though I'm told fries on pizza is actually pretty good Though I suppose you'd call them chips over there. {{unsigned|Legofan613}}
::Salt is usually an ingredient in dough, although why it's listed separately is anyone's guess. [[User:Rawmustard|Rawmustard]] ([[User talk:Rawmustard|talk]]) 16:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Many pizza places (at least in the central/midwest of the US) will put salt down under the dough to help prevent it sticking to the pan, and also to add a little flavor. Examples would be places like Donatos, Little Cesars, Marions, LaRosas, as well as many Chicago-style pizza joints. The big chains tend not to do this though, not sure why because in my opinion it's details like that that really make the smaller places more delicious. [[User:Domino|Domino]] ([[User talk:Domino|talk]]) 17:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)Domino

I believe that the "grease soaked vegetables" refers to a "caesar salad" or similar salad arrangement containing oil-based dressing and other ingredients with high fat content. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:23, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:Cueball is eating the pizza in turns: ''I'm trying to be healthier, so after I eat this brick of cheese, I'll have a spoonful of grease-soaked vegetables.'' This means he's eating a pizza that has just a spoonful of vegetables. A Caesar salad would be much bigger. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.17|108.162.221.17]] 20:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder if the joke was derived from the "healthy eating" craze here in the US at least. That is, people who spend copious amounts of time pouring over nutrition and ingredient labels to understand what it is they are actually eating. For most foods bought already prepared from the grocery store, the individual ingredients can range from bizarre (if you are not a chemist) to unappetizing. Perhaps Randall thought about it one step further and realized that any meal when broken into its macro components sounds unappetizing.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Not to mention, Cheese on pizza is'nt real cheese (At least, not on the deep freeze supermarket kind of pizza): at least half of it is some fat and a binder. Yuk. However if cueball skips the salt (blood pressure!) and ads some veggies it might make a healthy lunch if he also adjusts the amounts to something more sensible. -- IshouldRealyGetAUserNameHere
:And this is why I don't use frozen supermarket "cheese". [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:59, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:It used to be widely believed that excess salt raises blood pressure, but recently the medical profession are beginning to realise that this isn't the case. If you already have high blood pressure for other reasons then reducing your salt intake can help, but healthy people don't need to worry about how much salt they have. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:59, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

White bread: flour, water, salt, yeast. Pizza dough: flour, water, olive oil, salt, yeast. Why did Randall list the salt separately when it would have made more sense to mention olive oil? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1616: Lunch

2015-12-14T21:51:48Z

Martin: olive oil

... I don't think pizza is that bad. Those are sort of things people could really eat ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

That's not that gross, IMO. Tomato sauce is pretty much thought of as thick tomato juice. White bread. Salt. Normal things. And this seems to be assuming I wouldn't want to eat a brick of cheese. I do this regularly-ish with brie. [[User:International Space Station|International Space Station]] ([[User talk:International Space Station|talk]]) 13:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:Cut the cheese to thick slices and put it on pieces of bread to make a few sandwiches, spread the tomato sauce on other pieces of bread for a few more sandwiches. Put the salt on the tomato sauce, or on a few other pieces of bread. Completely nice lunch (though with the ingredient amounts pictured, it would be a lunch for 2-3 people). Incidentally, when I listed the ingredients to my mother, she immediately said "pizza Margarita". --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.191|162.158.180.191]] 19:22, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not American, so what does he mean by cheese and grease soaked vegetables? {{unsigned ip|162.158.153.101}}
:The cheese is a common ingredient in the pizza seen in the comic, which might be a plain cheese pizza. As for the veggies, this might be a reference to french fries, which is essentially potatoes cooked in a deep fryer which is filled with oil (though I can't be sure with the English definition correlation between grease and oil). {{unsigned ip|108.162.218.148}}
:On this side of the lake pizza's made with dough (white bread), tomato sauce, cheese, and apparently salt the way Randall makes it. Some people put veggies on their pizza, which later get greasy and oily thanks to the cheese; nothing to do with french fries, though I'm told fries on pizza is actually pretty good Though I suppose you'd call them chips over there. {{unsigned|Legofan613}}
::Salt is usually an ingredient in dough, although why it's listed separately is anyone's guess. [[User:Rawmustard|Rawmustard]] ([[User talk:Rawmustard|talk]]) 16:55, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:::Many pizza places (at least in the central/midwest of the US) will put salt down under the dough to help prevent it sticking to the pan, and also to add a little flavor. Examples would be places like Donatos, Little Cesars, Marions, LaRosas, as well as many Chicago-style pizza joints. The big chains tend not to do this though, not sure why because in my opinion it's details like that that really make the smaller places more delicious. [[User:Domino|Domino]] ([[User talk:Domino|talk]]) 17:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)Domino

I believe that the "grease soaked vegetables" refers to a "caesar salad" or similar salad arrangement containing oil-based dressing and other ingredients with high fat content. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:23, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
:Cueball is eating the pizza in turns: ''I'm trying to be healthier, so after I eat this brick of cheese, I'll have a spoonful of grease-soaked vegetables.'' This means he's eating a pizza that has just a spoonful of vegetables. A Caesar salad would be much bigger. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.17|108.162.221.17]] 20:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I wonder if the joke was derived from the "healthy eating" craze here in the US at least. That is, people who spend copious amounts of time pouring over nutrition and ingredient labels to understand what it is they are actually eating. For most foods bought already prepared from the grocery store, the individual ingredients can range from bizarre (if you are not a chemist) to unappetizing. Perhaps Randall thought about it one step further and realized that any meal when broken into its macro components sounds unappetizing.--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:33, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Not to mention, Cheese on pizza is'nt real cheese (At least, not on the deep freeze supermarket kind of pizza): at least half of it is some fat and a binder. Yuk. However if cueball skips the salt (blood pressure!) and ads some veggies it might make a healthy lunch if he also adjusts the amounts to something more sensible. -- IshouldRealyGetAUserNameHere

White bread: flour, water, salt, yeast. Pizza dough: flour, water, olive oil, salt, yeast. Why did Randall list the salt separately when it would have made more sense to mention olive oil? [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:51, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

1608: Hoverboard

2015-11-27T03:51:55Z

Martin: /* Explanation */ added section Referenced Worlds/Mythologies/Etc

{{comic
| number = 1608
| date = November 24, 2015
| title = Hoverboard
| image = hoverboard.png

}}
To experience the interactivity, visit the [http://xkcd.com/1608/ original comic].
{{TOC}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|It's possible not all of the game's secrets have been unearthed yet.}}
The "comic" is actually a {{w|browser game}} made to celebrate the release of [[Randall|Randall's]] new book, ''[[Thing Explainer]]'', which were released on the same day as this comic (November 24th 2015.) It was thus released on a Tuesday, and thus replaced that weeks normal Wednesday release.

The game features [[Cueball]] riding on a {{w|hoverboard}}. The only controls are the arrow keys. The player can jump repeatedly mid-jump to reach increasing heights. The player begins in a line-drawing maze with 17 gold coins located throughout and a "deposit" station. The ostensible goal of the game is to collect as many coins as possible and return them to the deposit in the fastest possible time, which returns a text message describing the result. Players consumed with obtaining the best possible time result for collecting the coins may not realize there is anything more to the game.

Beyond the maze on either side (just far enough that players who remain within the maze will not see) are tall walls seemingly designed to contain the player. However, the walls have a finite height and, combined with the ability to multi-jump, the player can leave the purported "play area" either to the sides or above the initial maze. This returns a flashing red error message "return to play area".

Outside the play area is an entire world to explore including numerous points of interest and {{w|Easter egg (media)|Easter eggs}} similar in style to comic [[1110: Click and Drag]]. The larger game world is physically bounded in the left and the right direction, but is technically unbounded upwards, however, past a certain point there appears to be nothing interesting in the up direction. However, the longer you continue to fly upwards by pressing the up arrow repeatedly, the longer will it take for Cueball to fall down again once you stop pressing. In principal it may also be unbound in the downwards direction, but there is only a few places you can "sink" into the ground/water/lava, and here you cannot go down indefinitely. It could be possible that there could be some unexplored parts of the map, but given the maps already made this seems unlikely. There are 152 more coins outside the initial "play area" for a total of 169 in the entire game.

===Areas===
{{incomplete|Help needed migrating the info into a table}}

{| class="wikitable"
! Coordinates || Description
|-
| x: 483735, y: -551990 || "What news of the world above? Please tell me - what's hot and viral? What's trending on twitter?"
|-
| x: 509587, y: -554621 || Washington Monument
|-
| x: 509587, y: -554621 || Captain's log
|}

===Technical aspects===
As previously noted, the comic bears considerable resemblance to [[1110: Click and Drag]]. The comic is made in much the same way, with 'drawn' images "glued" together to form a large "map", with the illusion of infinite bounds made possible through space saving techniques where blank tiles are not stored and are instead painted white. The boundary between blank squares and 'drawn' squares is made clear as any white space in the normal images has a very slight grey tint. Thus, seams between images and blank spaces can be discerned.

The tiles for the map are stored as simple PNG files in the naming scheme: X:Y+s.png. An example can be seen here: http://xkcd.com/1608/1013:-1096+s.png Each file is 513x513 pixels in size, one pixel is reserved as overlap to ensure seamless joining of images. So far, through experimentation, tiles in the range 928 to 1108 X and -1112 to -928 Y have been discovered, internally, the position of the player is divided by 512 and rounded down to give the position of the tile.

The collision map is encoded in the darkness of the black. Using an image manipulation program, one can easily find the secret pathways even in the zoomed out maps provided below by enhancing the contrast of the dark areas. On a slow connection, it's possible to move into an 'open' area and then the black image loads in and (probably permanently, without tricks) traps you immobile.

The game was made by [http://chromakode.com Max Goodman] who has previously worked on [[1416: Pixels]]. The source code for the game can be found [https://xkcd.com/1608/tigl.js here].

===Areas===
[[File:thumb_1608.jpg|thumb|right|one incomplete compilation of the entire game area (note the missing pinnacle of the Washington Monument]]

Starting area - (x: 512187, y: -549668)

==== West / Left ====
* {{w|Washington Monument}} - (x: 509864, y: -549746)
** Invisible entrance through the Monument, indicated by arrow sign
** Secret entrance into the inside of the Monument, right side, about halfway up - (x: 509815, y: -552614)
***From there you can fall down to the fault line shown in about the middle of the monument. You cannot see Cueball while he is in the monument in either entrance.
* Girl in a hamster ball - (x: 505790, y: -549905)
* Yet [[1504|another dig]] at the Lion King and the lands touched by shadow - (x: 504998, y: -550676)
* An {{w|X-Wing}} at a gas station, with coin accessible from the left - (x: 503253, y: -551129)
** Go straight up from the cockpit for a coin, carried by african swallows (non-migratory)
* A well with a girl at the bottom of it (and one of the yellow game coins), claiming to not be a ghost - (x: 501998, y: -551030)
* Landing re-entry capsule with parachutes - (x: 500040, y: -552369)
* Local Mom discovering This One Weird Bug - (x: 497994, y: -551334)
* Someone flying a kite, with a coin beside the kite.
* Volcano -
* LOTR Eagles - (x: 489661 y: -556811)
* A periscope peeking out of a shallow lava pool near two people playing "the lava is a floor" - (x: 488573 y: -556337)
* Lava pools -
* A dark grey ocean that isn't noticeable until you fall in
** With suicidal quadcopters taking footage of it over a coin - (x: 486640, y: -554838)
* {{w|Elon Musk}}'s Volcano Lair - (x: 484167, y: -549462)
** entrance hidden under volcano lava, before reaching Artex - (x: 483791, y: -551292)
* The ground, that presumably all grounded electronics are connected to - (x: 485125, y: -549062)
* Artex + Gandalf - (x: 483715, y: -554354)
* Basketball hoop, with coin
* Giant floating rock island in the sky (x: 507163, y: -567537)
* Hat underground
* A hole which traps(?) the player unless noclip mode is used

==== East / Right ====

* People holding anchor lines to the Tantive IV (Star Wars: A New Hope), being attacked by an Imperial Star Destroyer - (the people: x: 518954, y: -549056)
* Desert with dunes - (x: 520000, y: -549114)
* Ocean Yelper (giving only 2.5/5 stars) - x: 522015, y: -549015
* Talking Rogue Wave - (x: 523460, y: -549013)
* Wedding - (x: 531558, y: -549386)
* Graveyard - (x: 534140, y: -549546)
* Remains of {{w|Ozymandias}}' Statue - (x: 535927, y: -549666)
* Huge pyramid - (x: 538167, y: -550906)
* Blackhat's hat on a stick - (x: 549997, y: -549777)
* Whitehat's head in the grass? - (x: 559826, y: -549847)
* Giant bird nest - (x: 567123, y; -550417)
* Beret Guy riding a torpedo - (x: 522754, y: -554342)

==== Rebel Blockade Runner ====
Up in the air is the CR90 Corvette, Tantive IV aka Rebel Blockade Runner with Princess Leia fro. The start of the original Star Wars movie.

* Coordinates:
**??
*Cueball is standing at a ledge with a fishing rod with something on the hook somewhere below the spaceship. Two birds are circling the line.

==== Imperial Star Destroyer ====

High up in the air there's a huge spaceship.

* Coordinates:
** top left at (513072, -560660)
** bottom left at (513080, -559470)
** top at (552154, -569022)
** top right at (556557, -567711)
** bottom right at (558244, -556542)
* Entrances (from bottom left clockwise):
** Tunnel at (513080, -559680)
** Tunnel at (513166, -560434)
** Shaft at (516560, -560912)
** Shaft at (519200, -561108)
** Shaft at (525255, -561527)
** Shaft at (527990, -561844)
** Shaft at (533087, -562298)
** Shaft at (539637, -563233)
** Tunnel at (540958, -563721)
** Shaft at (543789, -564670)
** Stairwell down at (547438, -565058)
** Tunnel at (552319, -566184)
** Tunnel to an isolated small room at (557774, -562042)
** Shaft at (556350, -556720)
** Glitchfloor at (547890, -556779)
** Shaft at (543850, -557500)
** Main ramp at (537260, -557969)
** Tunnel at (531840, -558547)
** Parachutists' ramp at (526624, -558664)
** Ramp at (525300, -558747)
** Shaft at (520440, -559100)
** Shaft at (516825, -559300)
* Interesting objects and places inside:
** Steven Universe and the Crystal Gems - (x: 551664, y: -567383)
** A nearly complete depiction of Level 1 of {{w|Prince of Persia (1989 video game)|Prince of Persia}}, an ancient Jump & Run game - (x: 551532, y: -563512)
** Emperor Palpatine Park and Gazebo - (x: 546819, y: -559584)
** Dancers (possibly [[162|spinning counter-clockwise]]) dancing to piano music - (x: 547536, y: -563301)
** Octopus guarding two coins - (x: 531646, y: -559663)
** A sign saying "Caution GlitchFloor" (falling straight down through it nets you a coin someway down) - (x: 547898, y: -556784)
** A huge light bulb - (x: 555405, y: -557769)
** The Emperor [[1596|birdwatching]] - (x: 554777, y: -567346)
** Ponytail jousting on an ostrich- (x: 552048, y: -568045)
** A party on the ceiling (negative gravity?) - (x: 550350, y: -564354)
** A huge ant - (x: 552309, y: -560208)
** Tube slide - (x: 541813, y: -563721)
** A reservoir (?) with hidden passages - (x: 541300, y: -560330)
** A huge spark gap (?) - (x: 541900, y: -558110)
** Torpedo launcher room - (x: 529627, y: -558481)
** A {{w|Tetris}} block falling - (x: 529414, y: -529220)
** Lightsaber Piñata party - (x: 515353, y: -560329)
** Swimming pool - (x: 517346, y: -559831)
** Children's swimming pool (ball pit?) - (x: 514500, y: -560436)
** A crocodile - (x: 553623, -568091)
** Spiral tunnel - (x: 543320, y: -558314)
** A car - (x: 537750, y: -557937)

===Referenced Worlds/Mythologies/Etc===
* Real life
* Star Wars
* Lord of the Rings
* Neverending Story
* The Lion King
* Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail
* Shelly's Ozymandias
* Steven Universe
* Prince of Persia
* Tetris

=== Maps ===
* [http://codepen.io/KyleDavidE/full/605dc87b614ff6b2bd716f4c6f640203/ Quickly hacked overview] - courtesy of [https://www.reddit.com/user/kyledavide kyledavide] on [https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/3u4sy1/xkcd_1608_hoverboard/cxbyn86 reddit].
* [http://1101b.com/xkcd1608/ fully zoomable map w/ toggleable coins and passages] - courtesy of [https://www.reddit.com/user/lanzaa lanzaa] on the same reddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/3u4sy1/xkcd_1608_hoverboard/cxbyn86 thread]
* [https://i.imgur.com/uYryxss.png png-map] - courtesy of [https://www.reddit.com/user/luke_in_the_sky luke_in_the_sky] on the same reddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/3u4sy1/xkcd_1608_hoverboard/cxbyn86 thread]
* [http://paste.click/DsPuSL png-full-size-map] - might take a few minutes to download -> do not open directly in the browser! - courtesy of [https://www.reddit.com/user/0x90-0x90 0x90-0x90] on the same reddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/xkcd/comments/3u4sy1/xkcd_1608_hoverboard/cxbyn86 thread]

===Controls===
The keyboard controls are as follows:

* '''Go Left''' - Left arrow key, a or h
* '''Go Right''' - Right arrow key, d or l
* '''Go Up (jump or hover)''' - Up arrow key, w, or k
* '''Go Down (if gravity disabled)''' - Down arrow key, s, or j

This control scheme covers the three commonly used directional key sets: WASD a set of keys commonly used by modern games; HJKL a set of movement keys used by vi and applications which attempt to mimic vi key controls (vim); and the arrow keys, the most generic set of keys which is usually accepted by most applications which take movement as input, these were commonly used in older games.

On devices which have a touch screen and tilt sensor (portable devices like mobile phones and tablets) the controls are as follows:
* '''Go Left''' - Roll the device anticlockwise
* '''Go Right''' - Roll the device clockwise
* '''Go Up (jump or hover)''' - Tap the screen

After inspecting the source code, there appears to be no way to move down on a portable device, this is only relevant if gravity is disabled.

===Cheats and Exploits===
Aside from the obvious ability to move out of bounds in the game, there are some more obscure hidden features which can't be enabled through normal gameplay, the ones found so far are as follows:

'''Modes''' are activated by opening the Javascript Console (F12 [Or Command-Alt-I in most browsers under Mac OS X] to open Developer Tools, then Console tab) and writing corresponding commands:

* '''Gandalf Mode: ''' ''window.i.am.gandalf = true'' - jumps and runs further
* '''Speedhack: ''' ''explorer.opts.speed= *Value*'' - Speed hacking, with 1 = normal speed
* '''Jump Hack: ''' '' explorer.opts.jumpForce= -*Value*'' - Jump hacking, with -1 = normal jump (positive values cause the hoverboard guy to move down when jumping)
* '''Mewtwo mode: ''' ''window.mewtwo = true'' - disables gravity
* '''Noclip mode: ''' ''window.noclip = true'' - player is able to move around the map without collision. Combine with Gandalf and Mewtwo modes for free easy map traversal.
* '''Goggles mode: ''' ''window.ze.goggles()'' - displays a small window showing area around the player in a pixelated manner. The goggles indicate collision boundaries (where the player touches the world) in cyan lines. Black pixels that are passable (such as other characters or text) will be highlighted red (allowing secret passages to be discovered).
* '''Position Tracking: ''' ''window.explorer.pos'' - Returns the player location to the console. Can be used to track position and test to ensure you are still moving. Must be re-entered to compare positioning.
* '''Position Setting: ''' ''window.explorer.pos.x = *Value* or window.explorer.pos.y = *Value*'' - Can be used to manually set a position within the world. The start is at x: 512106, y: -549612. The left terrain bound is at x: 475210, y: -553711. The right terrain bound is at x: 567281, y: -549712. Mewtwo and Noclip modes are a must for exploring in this way.
* '''All the above: ''' ''window.explorer.opts'' - Contains all the game's parameters. You can directly mess with ''gravity'', collision (''disableCollision''), jump force (''jumpForce'') and speed (''maxSpeed''), among others. Run ''Object.keys(window.explorer.opts)'' to list all available parameters you can tweak.
* '''List all coins: ''' ''window.explorer.objects'' - Array containing the position of the 169 coins of the game.
* '''Disable tilt input: ''' ''getEventListeners(window)['deviceorientation'][0].remove()'' - on Macs with motion sensor, disables tilt input which causes problems controlling the avatar

'''Getting All Coins: ''' To instantly get all coins, input the below into the console window. Does not use standard formatting of [i] to avoid conflicts with window.i.am.gandalf

for (var T = 0; T < explorer.objects.length; T++) {
explorer.objects[T].got = true;
}

To teleport to the next coin every time you press the left or right arrow:

var T = 0;
document.onkeydown = function(event){
if (event.keyCode == 37) { T = T-1 }
else if (event.keyCode == 39) { T = T+1 }
else { return }
T = T % explorer.objects.length;
var coin = explorer.objects[T];
explorer.pos.x = coin.x1; explorer.pos.y = coin.y1;
}

For a quick tour of all the coins:

var delayInMilliseconds = 1000; // 1 second delay between each teleport. feel free to change this.
var index = 0;
explorer.objects.forEach(function(x){
setTimeout(function(){
explorer.pos.x = x.x1;
explorer.pos.y = x.y1;
x.got = true;
explorer.frame(); // forces a redraw
},
(index + 1) * delayInMilliseconds);
index++;
});

To see a list of coin coordinates you have not yet collected:

var L = 0;
for (var S = 0; S < explorer.objects.length; S++) {
var I = explorer.objects[S];
if (I.got) {
L++;
} else {
console.log(I.x1.toString() + ", " + I.y1.toString());
}
}
console.log("You've found " + L.toString() + " of 169 coins");

To display the distance and direction to the closest coin (with inverted colors once you have all the coins):

function distance(x1, y1, x2, y2) {
var dx = x2 - x1;
var dy = y2 - y1;
return Math.sqrt(dx * dx + dy * dy);
}

function angle(x1, y1, x2, y2) {
var dx = x2 - x1;
var dy = y2 - y1;
return Math.atan2(dy, dx) * 180 / Math.PI;
}

function renderRadar() {
var mindist = 10000000000;
var closest = {
x1:512278.0, y1:-549613.0
};
var linecolor = "red";
for (var S = 0; S < explorer.objects.length; S++) {
var I = explorer.objects[S];
if (!I.got) {
var dist = distance(explorer.pos.x, explorer.pos.y, I.x1, I.y1);
if (dist < mindist) {
mindist = dist;
closest = I;
}
}
}
if (mindist == 10000000000) {
mindist = distance(explorer.pos.x, explorer.pos.y, closest.x1, closest.y1);
if (document.getElementById("radar").style.backgroundColor != "red") {
document.getElementById("radar").style.backgroundColor = "red";
}
linecolor = "green";
} else {
if (document.getElementById("radar").style.backgroundColor != "green") {
document.getElementById("radar").style.backgroundColor = "green";
}
}
var ang = angle(explorer.pos.x, explorer.pos.y, closest.x1, closest.y1);
var indicator = "";
if (ang > 112.5 || ang < -112.5) {
indicator += "left";
}
if (ang < 67.5 && ang > -67.5) {
indicator += "right";
}
if (ang > -157.5 && ang < -22.5) {
indicator += " up";
}
if (ang > 22.5 && ang < 157.5) {
indicator += " down";
}
document.getElementById("radar").innerHTML = "Distance: " + mindist.toFixed(1).toString() + " ";
document.getElementById("radar").innerHTML += indicator + " (" + -ang.toFixed(1).toString() + "°)";
document.getElementById("radar").innerHTML += "<div id='circle' style='border: 1px solid black; border-radius: 50px; width: 100px; height: 100px; position:absolute; top:50px; left:25px'/>";
document.getElementById("radar").innerHTML += "<div id='line' style='width: 50px; height: 1px; background-color: " + linecolor + "; position:absolute; top:100px; left:75px; transform:rotate(" + ang + "deg); transform-origin:0% 0%'/>";
}

var d = document.createElement("div");
d.id = "radar";
d.style.position = "fixed";
d.style.left = "0px";
d.style.top = "0px";
d.style.width = "150px";
d.style.height = "160px";
d.style.border = "1px solid red";
d.style.zIndex = "2";
d.style.backgroundColor = "green";
d.style.color = "#8f8";
document.body.appendChild(d);

setInterval(renderRadar, 100);

To display your current coordinates:

function renderRadar2() {
document.getElementById("radar2").innerHTML = "x: " + explorer.pos.x.toFixed(1).toString() + " y: " + explorer.pos.y.toFixed(1).toString()
}

var d = document.createElement("div")
d.id = "radar2"
d.style.position = "fixed"
d.style.left = "150px"
d.style.top = "0px"
d.style.width = "150px"
d.style.height = "35px"
d.style.border = "1px solid red"
d.style.zIndex = "2"
d.style.backgroundColor = "green"
d.style.color = "#8f8"
document.body.appendChild(d)

setInterval(renderRadar2, 1000)

===Functionality===
By observing page code while playing, the game grabs and displays images based on location, and subsequently clears all non-visible images. The game uses what seems to be a position syntax to retrieve the intended images live, and returns an error if such an image does not exist, such as a blank area. This technically means things could be added to the world and updated live. If the player is moving sufficiently fast or if the internet connection is slow, this means that the player can get stuck in a black area that does not load in time.

This also means that the game does not have coded top or bottom limits, so any attempt to find the ''ceiling'' of the game will be futile unless the game is tweaked. The game does however have side limits.

When you deposit a certain number of coins, you will get one of the following messages:
* 0 coins : You got 0 coins in (n) seconds/ You successfully avoided all the coins.
* 1 coin : You got a single coin in (n) seconds/ It's a start.
* 2-4 coins : You got (n) coins in (n) seconds/ Not bad!
* 5-9 coins : You got (n) coins in (n) seconds/ Terrific!
* 17 coins : You got 17 coins in (n) seconds/ You found all the coins! Great job!
* 42 coins : You got 42 coins in (n) seconds/ No answers here.
* 169 coins : You got 169 coins in (n) seconds/ Are you Gandalf?
* All others: You got (n) coins in (n) seconds

Opening the console will display the text: what? hoverboard not enough for you!? in the log. Activating goggles mode will cause the text 'B-)' to appear in the log.

Leaving the play area will cause the red text 'RETURN TO THE PLAY AREA' to rapidly blink 3 times (150 msec duration), followed by a pause, and this will repeat 5 times for a total of 15 blinks. This will also reoccur if the player passes through the play area on their way back from exploring one side.

==Transcript==
:[This transcript only covers the starting page as shown on xkcd: {{xkcd|1608}}. A full transcript of the entire comic will be listed on a [[1608: Hoverboard/Transcript|separate page]].]

:[Cueball is shown on a hoverboard in the centre of the comic. Around him is a simple maze with 12 yellow coins. Another Cueball without howerboard is shown standing on one of the platforms to the right. The bottom half of the window is black. Right of where Cueball stands is a ramp. Behind the ramp is a computer. There is lots of space left of the maze, outside the maze. Text is only written in white below in the black area. The first part of the text is written below Cueball on hoverboard. Then there is an arrow pointing to the computer and a label. Finally there is a line of text at the bottom of the black area.]

:[Under Cueball:]
:My new book,
:''Thing Explainer,''
:comes out today!
:To celebrate, here's
:a small game.

:[Under the arrow below the computer]
:Deposit coins here

:[At the bottom:]
:Use the arrow keys to move

:['''For the full transcript of the entire comic see [[1608: Hoverboard/Transcript]].''']

==Trivia==
* There is as usual [[:Category:No title text|no title text]] for these interactive comics. But there is actually one listed in the [http://xkcd.com/1608/info.0.json info page] on xkcd. But this text: "Return to the play area", is never shown as a normal title text. But it will erroneously be shown in the unofficial mobile versions of the site.
** This is actually the text that is shown blinking red at the buttom of the screen when leaving the starting area.
* If the focus switches from the game to the page, the cueball can freeze in midair. The same thing can happen if the window border overlaps the play area.
* The Washington monument has an invisible floor next to the visible bricks which you can enter from further up the monument.
** You can also just walk through the monument at it's base as shown by the sign.

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:No title text]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Large drawings]]
[[Category:Interactive comics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Beret Guy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hair Bun Girl]]
[[Category:Multiple Cueballs]]
[[Category:Philosophy]]
[[Category:Video games]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]
[[Category:LOTR]]
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Hamster Ball]]

Talk:1606: Five-Day Forecast

2015-11-22T21:52:40Z

Martin: most use metric

As far as I can figure out, -452 F is something like 4 K, which seems a bit too warm (above OTL microwave background). It probably should be -456 in the next-to-last row and -458 in the last row (-459 for the last column). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.81.76|141.101.81.76]] 12:58, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

: Inside a galaxy, it presumably ''is'' a bit warmer than CMB, since there are stars around to heat the {{w|interstellar medium}} a little. --[[User:Aaron of Mpls|Aaron of Mpls]] ([[User talk:Aaron of Mpls|talk]]) 05:40, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the conversions to degrees C as being a 58 year old Brit I have never understood degrees F (I know what they are just I have no idea whether 60F is cold, cool or comfortable). I have always used 5, 10 and 21, Winter, Spring and Summer sun - well works for Middle Brittan) [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 19:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

: FYI 60 degrees F outside is quite pleasent, a little cool, but inside your feet get cold. 15.5 degrees C [[User:NotLock|NotLock]] ([[User talk:NotLock|talk]]) 09:12, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

: Yes thank you for the conversions, _most_ readers of this comic use metric units: http://daretorant.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/metric-system.jpg [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:52, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

There will be ambient starlight in addition to the 2.7K background which should raise the temperature slightly. However, the 2.7K background will also redshift to a lower temperature as time goes on: T propto 1/a where a is the scale factor of the Universe. Would be a good assignment for a cosmology class. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 13:07, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Aha, what will last longer than stars etc is the silly Fahrenheits.
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.165|162.158.91.165]] 17:49, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

There are five columns. Either the first column is "today" and one should not speak of predictions after five (m/b/trillion) years (as is currently the case a couple of times), or the first column is "tomorrow (etc.)" and then the prediction of "A bright yellow sun; 38°F" for one trillion years would be very strange. [[User:Jkrstrt|Jkrstrt]] ([[User talk:Jkrstrt|talk]]) 18:39, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Randall lives in a cold climate! [[Special:Contributions/188.114.97.127|188.114.97.127]] 21:37, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

If the "red giant" temperature measures the sun's core, how do you explain the last panels showing decidedly non-white-dwarf temperatures? --[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.234|199.27.130.234]] 03:48, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the 5-year-predicion: It seems to me that the temperature is in average rising a bit across the year, maybe a reference to the slow process of global warming? This would not be the first time, there are even whole comics just about global warming, especially about the noticeable speed and the "in average"-importance (e.g. 1379, 1321) {{unsigned ip|162.158.92.118}}

Talk:1605: DNA

2015-11-20T00:16:05Z

Martin: adding my handle to comments I made earlier

The source for Google.com can be found at `<nowiki>view-source:https://www.google.com/</nowiki>` for Firefox and Chrome. Also [http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=u8SMf7G6 here]. —[[User:Artyer|Artyer]] <big>([[User Talk:Artyer|talk]]<big>'''|'''</big>[[Special:Contributions/Artyer|ctb]])</big> 16:06, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
:Should there be a link to the code in the explain. I do not understand these links or the source code, and would not like to place these links in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

I really like this comic. IMHO, just another good example of intelligent design. Google's dev had to design, plan and carefully code. If that is seemingly simple compared to DNA and biology then how much more intelligence and thought was needed for the coding of all living things?--[[User:R0hrshach|R0hrshach]] ([[User talk:R0hrshach|talk]]) 17:18, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
:With all the stupid things going on in our bodies (rendered useless by natural selection but staying put anyway like the {{w|Appendix (anatomy)|Appendix}} or our {{w|tailbone}}) then it is to me just a clear example that there has been no intelligence behind our genome, but just trial and error, and then 4 billion years to get it right enough that it works but not smart. And don't get me started on how our air and food/drink has to go in the same way with the risk of being (nearly) killed by a pretzel...([http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-94567/I-feel-great-President-Bush-declares-pretzel-incident.html even if you are the president of the US] ;-) That is just plain stupid design. But few enough dies from this, that it was necessary for nature to change it once it was working. Humans and the genes survived long enough to reproduce. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
::Without an appendix how would our gut immune system develop properly? Without a tail bone how would we stand upright? It's a fallacy to think that just because we don't understand something it must have no purpose. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 00:53, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
:::Without a pretzel-choaking mechanism, how could we ever hope to weed out less-desirable presidents? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.180.215|162.158.180.215]] 21:59, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
:I am sure you are right about intelligent design being involved: clearly DNA's tangled structure is a deliberate nod to a plate of spaghetti, proof indeed that the Flying Spaghetti Monster has had a hand (well, a noodly appendage) in all of creation. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 00:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Apologies, when I saved my comments it blitzed someone else's that must have been being written at the same time :'-( [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 19:13, 18 November 2015
(UTC)
:Yeah it was my two comments above? I have now moved the one right her above back in place from the bottom where Davidy22 had placed it when he tried to fix it. No harms done but as he says: ''Read error messages, I know mediawiki gives them to you''. You can always see in the history what you have changed. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:08, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
::I, for my part read the edit conflict (with Kynde, 18:43) like a good little boy, re-edited in light of that, resubmitted and... forgot to answer the security question. For completeness I wrote the following. If it's still helpful...
Had the same thought. Although I just use "View | Source" from the menu or right-click and "View Page Source", or whatever that browser tends to want to give me. And, having had that same thought: For reference, in case anybody wants it, the source of the google.co.uk main page (assumed not far off google.com in its nature) is 51 lines. But that's 51 ''long'' lines of mostly javascript, with much of the unnecessary whitespace (including line-feeds) taken out of it, overwhelmingly single-character variable names, over 150 'if' statements (including 'else if' ones, in continuation to a prior one) and perhaps 56 'for' loops, at first glance. Whether 'optimised' or obfuscated, it certainly could be a challenge to fully understand.
:: HTH, HAND [[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.161|141.101.106.161]] 21:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

::: I don't think that Google's homepage is only optimized. I'm sure part of obfuscation is deliberate. That said, just removing comments and changing variable names is usually enough to make program unreadable. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:18, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

IMHO DNA with its redundant sections for things not currently used and the bodges in biological design are a good example of unintelligent design. For example the blood supply to the retina is between the iris and the retina, so it is in the way. An intelligent designer would do an eye mark II. But this has nothing to do with the comic. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 19:07, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
: Sigh. Another of the "I could do a better job" brigade. Go ahead. Try it. Post back here after you learn enough about the existing eye design that you recognise just how incredible it is. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.32|198.41.238.32]] 00:57, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

::Eye mark II is used in octopuses: {{w|Cephalopod eye}}. Solves multiple problems of our eyes. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:15, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
:::Cephalopod vs Vertebrate eyes is a classic example of convergent evolution, therefore eye structure proves evolution not intelligent design. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 00:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

White Hat is showing the hubris often seen by people who think their (often limited) knowledge in one field can be used as an anology for something very different. Megan only manages to showchim his error by showing that a "simple" web page, which has only been evolving for a few years is more complex than he thinks, and the role of any one line/command in the page is probably far from clear without deep analysis [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 19:07, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

The evolution of life is composed exclusively of copy-paste programming on top of legacy code, global variables, and hacks on hacks on hacks at every level, from telomeres and DNA looping, to the structure of the human hip (childbirth), to our breathing tract, optic nerve, and brain structure and cognition. --[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.234|199.27.130.234]] 21:47, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
: That's what you get when you hack the universe together with perl. {{unsigned|Dsollen}}

: Or C. Reminds me of a joke going around in the 90s ... http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/dna.en.html [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.38|141.101.98.38]]

So much for Gattaca then... [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 00:16, 20 November 2015 (UTC)