explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1385: Throwing Rocks

2014-10-09T09:37:19Z

Orazor:

Current explanation says the rock in the second panel is seen "possibly sinking the boat." Whoever typed this apparently didn't notice the undisturbed leaf boat, floating approximately 2 feet away from the splash. - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.240.36|108.162.240.36]] 04:38, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

My boat sunk! THANKS, OBAMA! - [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.153|173.245.56.153]] 05:32, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:SURE... BLAME OBAMA WHEN IT WAS BUSH WHO STARTED IT. ''(Sorry! Couldn't resist.)'' [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 11:15, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:: Heh. Thanks. That started the day with a laugh. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.39|199.27.133.39]] 16:48, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Did we already know both Beret Guy and Megan are left handed? [[User:Wrybred|Wrybred]] ([[User talk:Wrybred|talk]]) 12:20, 23 June 2014 (UTC)wrybred
: They could be ambidextrous. Seriously I suspect that was easier to draw with them facing that way. And them facing the other way is just wrong.[[User:Halfhat|Halfhat]] ([[User talk:Halfhat|talk]]) 18:14, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
: I agree with halfhat - it is a tool to give the drawing the correct flow. They need to throw that way for the story to progress in the reading direction. And then it is easier to throw that way. Also remember that although we think of Megan as one person, this does not apply to Randal! Megan is just a stand-in for any girl (as are Cueball for any guy). Not so sure about Beret Guy though... I think it is a nice observation by the way. I did not see that. But to say that they are always left handed is not correct. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:33, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:I don't know about you, but when I look at the image it could go either way in terms of which hand they are using. They are stick figures so you can't see shoulders, chests, or backs. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.161|108.162.237.161]] 23:19, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
:No, it's pretty clear from the angle of the water's edge which way round we're looking. For those to be right hands, Megan and Beret Guy would have to be standing at a very strange angle to the water. Also the swoosh from Megan's stone goes behind her head.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.215|108.162.249.215]] 04:22, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Vinland != America
: "Vinland was the name given to an area of North America by Norse Vikings..." per Wikipedia. (Providing actual info rather than just yelling "NO!" is always more helpful. But I'll take your comment (and you posting it anonymously) was intended as being in the spirit of the comments Randall's poking fun at.) [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.39|199.27.133.39]] 16:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Since "Leaf" Ericson is a pun on Leif, I think Vinland is a pun for Finland, but with the prefix "Vin" from "Vine". All of these puns make sense since the boat is made from a leaf. {{unsigned ip|199.27.130.228}}
:Try reading the wikipedia entry for Vinland. That makes a lot more sense. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.240.30|108.162.240.30]] 15:18, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Is it just me or does this sound a lot like the game discordian game "Sink"? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.240.30|108.162.240.30]] 15:15, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

The explanation says Megan's comment is in contrast, I felt it was more of a comparison or a parallel. News articles go away once they're a week old in some places, various comments could be seen as thrown rocks or stones. Am I the only one who read it this way? [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.63|173.245.55.63]] 15:27, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:I really feel that it would be more in line with my interpretation if the "In contrast, " was simply removed... I don't think it's in contrast to anything. She contemplates, then decides to join in. As for the metaphor of thrown stones, I'm not sure I really see it, except possibly as a meta-meta-reference... (if such a thing is a thing?) -- [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 12:47, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
: Come to think of it, I agree - it's a little loose, 'cuz while Beret Guy is throwing stones at the boat himself, Megan is just reading the comments (stones) that eventually sink the article (boat), but I see a metaphor, for sure! {{unsigned|Brettpeirce}}

Happy Leif Erikson day, everyone! Jinga-hinga-durga! [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.171|141.101.98.171]] 17:15, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:141.101, wɘnt to gɘt morɘ giant papEr. Uhhhh... [[User:MrGameZone|MᴙGam]][[User talk:MrGameZone|ɘZonɘ]] 18:19, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Every day, I read the discussion on an explainxkcd page ;) [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.73|173.245.50.73]] 14:26, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Ha! Great pun in the title text, though he could have had another had he said "Vineland". [[User:Jevicci|Jevicci]] ([[User talk:Jevicci|talk]]) 15:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Somewhat off-topic, but for me, by definition a rock is something too big to throw (or throw easily). They must be throwing stones. (Or pebbles, but the objects look too large for that.) Is this one of those national/regional vocabulary things?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.215|108.162.249.215]] 04:26, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

If a rock is something too big to throw (then likely or nearly too heavy to carry) how could one then have a rock collection? {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.187}}

Any chance the title text is a reference to "you will not go to space today" from Up-Goer Five? [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:37, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1383: Magic Words

2014-10-09T09:28:22Z

Orazor:

In this comic, Mr. Munroe makes a joke. As of yet, it is unclear what this joke IS, specifically, but it can be assumed that it's a funny one. {{unsigned ip|‎108.162.215.120}}
:In the comment above, a user makes some statements about a web-comic. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.37|141.101.104.37]] 14:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
::Yo dawg, I heard you like jokes in comments about web-comics... [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:28, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

the clue was in "anapest"... for those more ambitious to explain and understand [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_%28prosody%29] [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.83|108.162.221.83]] 04:13, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Each sequence has four words with the same stress pattern, which makes them the same type of poetic foot (the first group is all iambs, the second is all trochees, the third is bacchius). Basically it's a pun. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.185|173.245.54.185]] 04:25, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Is Cueball really as much of a ''cunning linguist'' as Megan makes him out to be? If not, she is going to be extremely unsatisfied in bed. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.25|108.162.208.25]] 08:36, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Ha! Cunning linguist! *snicker* [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.157|108.162.254.157]] 08:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
:I found this just as funny as the comic itself. (Maybe I am 13 years old at heart) [[User:Rfd|Rfd]] ([[User talk:Rfd|talk]]) 18:17, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Before the explanation, I was wondering where "correct horse battery staple" was... {{unsigned ip|141.101.98.219}}

Hmmm - surely there is some role the choice of words plays in this, beyond having a particular meter. Any ideas? [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 12:19, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

What about Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious? =8o) [[User:Jarod997|Jarod997]] ([[User talk:Jarod997|talk]]) 12:44, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I did not initially state that "a-na-'''pest''' is an anapest. But now I have tripple checked amongst other with a school teacher and the dictionary that I link to in the link. I have thus correct this back again. Please do not change it back! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 15:01, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
:There seem to be some '''disagreement''' about the '''pronunciation''' of the word '''anapest''' - or at least what it means to stress a syllable. I'm no expert, but had two other hear the word from the link to the pronunciation given in the explain. There is now two different people who have written that anapest is an anapest (I'm one of them) and two others who have changed it back to being a dactyl, without commenting down here... The last who did it wrote that I had misread how the stress was in the dictionary. But I cannot see where this is defined? I just listened to the word. If someone can post a link to how the word is pronounced, and can explain to me how to read it, (so it can be made clear what is correct instead of starting an editing war...) that would be great. In case it is the first syllable that is stressed then the two definitions on Wikipedia for what an anapest is will give two different conclusions for the word. This I have now included in the anapest explanation. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:18, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
:: The primary stress is marked with an apostrophe BEFORE the stressed syllable. Secondary stress, which isn't important here, is marked with an inverted apostrophe (ie, at the bottom of the line) before the stressed syllable. You almost certainly don't pronounce it with the last syllable stressed, because it would sound very clearly and definitely like "er-ner-pest". [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.12|141.101.99.12]] 19:28, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
::'Anapest' is definitely an anapest, by BOTH definitions, when I pronounce it. What's more, when I intentionally try to pronounce it as a dactyl, it is very difficult for me to do so--it feels unnatural. California-raised with a Master's in English from an Ivy League school, if anyone cares. Anyway, my experience in both the world and the classroom lead me to believe that 'anapest' is an anapest for American English. If it can also be a dactyl, I'd say that's a British pronunciation. I'm pretty sure whatever any of us think, Randall thinks 'anapest' is an anapest... [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.196|173.245.48.196]] 14:34, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the input. From this I have rephrased the anapest discussion an moved it into a trivia section. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:14, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
::'Anapest' is a dactyl because the stress is on the first syllable, according to [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anapest Dictionary.com] (in bold), [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anapest Merriam-Webster], and [http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/anapaest?q=anapest Oxford Dictionaries] (notice the accent mark at the beginning of the word). The inflection of the pronunciation also indicates stress on the first syllable. For example, compare the way you say "'''an'''apest" to "an '''ap'''ple", and how your voice rises at the beginning of the former but the middle of the latter. I haven't seen any examples showing the stress on the last syllable, so unless someone has one, I'm going to revert back to the correct explanation. [[User:Prometheusmmiv|Prometheusmmiv]] ([[User talk:Prometheusmmiv|talk]]) 00:39, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
::As an addenda to the above; if anapest were an anapest, the first syllable would be reduced to schwa in most english-speaking accents and you'd get uh-nuh-pest - specifically, the first "a" would sound like the second "a" does. If you pronounce it with an audible, clear "aaaa", you're stressing the first syllable. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.12|141.101.99.12]] 19:25, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Also, note that all these phrases are grammatically correct, but semantically nonsensical, Chomsky-style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless_green_ideas_sleep_furiously [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.13|141.101.104.13]] 09:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC) Georgy

I don't think "story water paper doorway" is gramatically correct. Whether you take water or paper to be the verb, both the noun and the object would need to be plural and they're not.

Also, there's nothing nonsensical about "strawberry scorpion poetry"

The strawberry scorpion's sweet 
Though juicy you never should eat- 
In case you get stung 
Just call 911 
And try your best to stay upbeat {{unsigned ip}}

:If you try hard enough, you can give meaning to Chomsky's example as well: "It can only be the thought of verdure to come, which prompts us in the autumn to buy these dormant white lumps of vegetable matter covered by a brown papery skin, and lovingly to plant them and care for them. It is a marvel to me that under this cover they are labouring unseen at such a rate within to give us the sudden awesome beauty of spring flowering bulbs. While winter reigns the earth reposes but these colourless green ideas sleep furiously." [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.13|141.101.104.13]] 09:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC) Georgy

:Since it's in all caps, we can't tell if "story" and "paper doorway" are proper names; if they are, a single comma would make that string grammatically correct - an imperative instructing Story to water Paper Doorway. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.12|141.101.99.12]] 19:25, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
:: To me, it looks grammatically correct even without that comma. Suppose there is such a thing called Story Water™, which can be potentially used for producing paper. A "story water paper doorway" is then simply a doorway made of paper that is made from story water. A bit clumsy, though perfectly correct. Also, much less clumsy than "U.S. Air Force aircraft fuel systems equipment mechanics course". The article is missing, but that should be okay for titles. Also, we may assume that the word "doorway" has an additional meaning for which it becomes an uncountable noun. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.13|141.101.104.13]] 09:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC) Georgy

Does anyone else think these words were chosen because they have whispering qualities would produce an 'autonomous sensory meridian response'? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response {{unsigned ip|199.27.128.207}}

This is certainly contro-verse-ial. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.6}}

As a linguist who dreams word-play, this comic is fantastic on so many levels. Thanks, Randall! [[User:Clumsy|Clumsy]] ([[User talk:Clumsy|talk]]) 21:34, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Holy crap, I had no freaking idea what was going on in this one. The cool thing is it's funny enough to still give me a chuckle after reading the explanation. Most jokes die a painful death if they have to be explained. Also, I have no idea how to properly sign my posts so I'm ignorantly copying others, likely incorrectly. [[User:jakeepooh|jakeepooh]]

I read the comic and the explanation, and I still have no clue. Guess no poetic foot fetish action for me. {{unsigned ip|108.162.216.34}}

I agree with the opinion that anapest is an anapest, and I've seen no comments to the contrary so unless there's other evidence to support it being a dactyl, it should remain anapest.
Also, apparently the last person to change it didn't even read the entire sentence, because they left it as an autological word and not a heterological word. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.60|108.162.216.60]] 19:46, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Though almost nobody in America has heard the word "anapest" spoken aloud in our entire lives, I think most of us would assume, since words like "analog" and "Everest" are both dactyls, that "anapest" is obviously a dactyl unless there is some special cited reason that it's not. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.90|199.27.128.90]] 00:51, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

"Anapest" has been in my usage vocabulary since high school (about fifty years), and it's always been a dactyl for me. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anapest Merriam-Webster] agrees: Their written pronunciation, '''\ˈa-nə-ˌpest\''', has primary stress on the first syllable and secondary stress on the third, which is just how I pronounce it. [[User:Thnidu|Thnidu]] ([[User talk:Thnidu|talk]]) 06:03, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Interesting side note: the Wikipedia link to "foot fetishism" is blocked on my current Mobile Internet connection (pending an Adult Verification-type process that I'm not too bothered about engaging with, despite being very much elegible). Considering the things that ''aren't'' blocked (on Wikipedia and elsewhere), I thought this would amuse some of you, at least. ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.57|141.101.99.57]] 15:25, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Rhythm Method: Trochee starts things rolling, then Iambe's humor rouses Demeter, the goddess of fertility. [[User:Nathan Hillery|Nathan Hillery]] ([[User talk:Nathan Hillery|talk]]) 14:47, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1379: 4.5 Degrees

2014-10-09T09:09:54Z

Orazor:

Scary thoughts there... [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 05:11, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I imagine the Earth's axial tilt wouldn't change even if the temperature changed by +2 IAU. So, would palm trees survive the extreme day/night lengths at the poles? [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 05:31, 9 June 2014 (UTC) P.S. Also, wouldn't the North Pole be underwater, so incapable of supporting palm trees?
Also, regarding the IAU, is it a reference to the {{w|International Astronomical Union|IAU}} that named an {{w|4942 Munroe|asteroid}} after Randall?

"While it says it's "probably no big deal," this is probably a joke, because even half of an Ice Age would be a lot of ice." The article has it wrong. It's a 2 degree increase, not decrease. Ice would melt. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 07:33, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:-- Fixed {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.77}}

To prevent global warming, act yesterday! ... or, well, since we already failed to do it, maybe ... just maybe ... we should invest some resources to ADAPTING to the change. Because the USSR communist party wanted to command “wind and rain” and how it worked?
... of course, we SHOULD be trying to lower the CO2 emissions ... not like Germany, which [http://www.realclearenergy.org/charticles/2014/01/16/germanys_plans_for_new_coal_plants_107463.html replaced it's nuclear power plants with coal ones] ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:While it is true that we have build more coal plants, the majority part that replace the nuclear power is from renewable energy, see [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strommix#mediaviewer/Datei:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg diagram] on wikipedia. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.89|141.101.75.89]] 15:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:: ... note that burning biomass, while renewable, also adds CO2. Not speaking about oil. You shouldn't be closing nuclear plants, you should be closing coal ones if you have exceed energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
::: While burning biomass adds CO2, the whole point of "burning a biologically-sourced fuel" like biodiesel is that you are merely returning to the atmosphere CO2 that was sucked out of the atmosphere by the biological material in the first place. So you grow an acre of plant material, and that acre of plant material sucks a certain amount of CO2 out of the atmosphere. When you then burn that plant material, you are releasing that CO2 back in to the atmosphere. Thus it is a "net zero" operation. While yes, it would be better to do a "net negative" operation (plant more plants while NOT releasing ANY CO2,) a net zero operation is still better than what we're doing now - releasing massive amounts of CO2 that have been locked up for geological-scale lengths of time, all in a VERY short timeframe. If you were to replace all work-generation power sources with "net zero" sources like biodiesel production and biomass generation, the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere would stop rising immediately. (Well, once they have reached equilibrium from other sources, anyway.) But of course, the difficulty is growing sufficient biological fuel material fast enough to create enough fuel for our needs. (The famous "it would take more farmland than currently exists on all of planet Earth, all of it dedicated to growing corn, to grow enough corn to make enough corn-derived ethanol to fuel every vehicle on the planet" problem.) So obviously energy efficiency and non-bio-fuel renewable energy methods are also needed. But biofuel (burning biomass, ethanol, biodiesel, etc,) is still a SIGNIFICANT improvement over oil/natural gas/coal. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.216|108.162.245.216]] 07:31, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Well, ''this'' seems like a topic that could generate heated comments. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.9|108.162.208.9]] 10:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Would anyone care to comment on the +200 meter sea rise? I googled "how much would sea level rise" a bit, and I seem to bump into 60 to 70 meters repeatedly for all glaciers melting. I found nothing direct from IPCC. I wonder if Randall really has another view on this. {{unsigned ip|108.162.254.45}}
:Cretaceous sea levels are generally accepted to have been 200m above the present level - you have large shallow seas (with geological evidence showing depths of 200m) over many of the continents - e.g. the Eromunga Sea in Australia. This is not from the IPCC, it predates that considerably. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.237|108.162.250.237]] 11:35, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
:I hope the explanation isn't that he made a meter/feet mistake. [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 13:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
::I would assert that he rounded for a clean read for a relative scale. Also, the '+' denotes the likelihood of a larger actual amount. {{unsigned ip|108.162.217.41}}
:::60 meters is indeed the amount the sea would rise if all the glacial ice melted. However, that figure presumably does not take into account have much the sea would rise by expansion due to the increased heat. That is, after all, the main reason for rising sea levels today. So I would guess that the +200 figure is the 60 meters of added water from glacial ice ''plus'' the amount it would rise due to warming and expanding. [[User:Calebxy|Calebxy]] ([[User talk:Calebxy|talk]])
::::While that's possible, and desalination of water can also cause it to expand (sea water is more dense than fresh), we shouldn't try to justify the numbers if they are incorrect. If we can find some reliable data to suggest the rise would be 200 ft instead of 200m, we should include that. Or at least include a range of estimates from reliable sources. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 15:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::Having just re-read the explanation after posting my comment, I can see that the article attempts to do just that. But the link provided says 110 to 770 mm. Isn't the millimeters? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 15:44, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::But the sea level ''would'' rise more than 60m if the expansion of the sea is taken into account. If the earth became as hot as the graph indicates, then logically the seas would expand considerably. [[User:Calebxy|Calebxy]] ([[User talk:Calebxy|talk]]) 16:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:Cretaceous sea levels seem to have been that high, but this tends to be attributed to the shape of the ocean basins, in particular the mid-ocean ridges, rather than to the temperature. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 17:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

So sad that Randall is pushing the carbon tax agenda long after the AGW myth has been debunked. [[User:IGnatius T Foobar|IGnatius T Foobar]] ([[User talk:IGnatius T Foobar|talk]]) 16:00, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
:Waitwhat? a) I saw no mention of tax. b) AGW==Anthropogenic Global Warming==debunked? This may not be the place for this whole discussion (despite the relevance), but it's ''far'' from debunked. And even if "there was going to be some Global Warming anyway", you can't dismiss the probability that we're adding ''something'' to this effect and making it more extreme. If not pushing it over the edge in some way. (I'm actually more optimistic than that, but I do find "it's a myth!" to be annoyingly naive, so excuse me if I try to balance that out. It's really not worth tying this discussion box up in this debate, however.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.232|141.101.98.232]] 18:36, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
::I'm not as sure that it isn't worth it. GCC is fact. GW, might be. AGW, that's where we get into the mythical and unproven range, because it's *really hard* to tell the difference between correlation and causation, and because of other problems I wrote below.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 19:28, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
:Randall is a scientist. He follows scientific consensus. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 20:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
::Randall is a comic artist. While he's a really smart guy, he popularizes science, he doesn't do the experiments himself.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 19:28, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
:::No snark intended here, and I am a non-scientist, so I do not speak from a position of authority. However, I thought (one of the) the point(s) of science was that you don't ''have'' to do the science yourself in order to understand and interpret the results. In fact, you can read the reports and conclusions of others in order to draw your own. In law, for example, we follow the cases that have been established in similar situations so that we can advise our clients on the ''best'' course (and by best, I mean the course that won't land you in court paying outrageous fees) of action. We don't have to experience it ourselves in order to reach the desired outcome. We can draw analogies from similar fact patterns. Right? [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:09, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
::There is nothing scientific about following consensus. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.86}}
:::Of course there is... When 99% of climatologists are reasonably certain (which means "very very sure" for non-scientists) that there is Global Warning and that the primary cause is us (humanity greenhouse gas emissions), I wouldn't say that AGW has been "debunked" and that there is nothing scientific in following this consensus (after having made sure of its existence by reading diverse peer-reviewed studies of the field) ! You may have an agenda to defend but could you at least try to make some sense, please. Note that this doesn't mean that the current political propositions are the right way to go about it and that this comic doesn't say anything about that. [[User:Jedaï|Jedaï]] ([[User talk:Jedaï|talk]]) 21:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
::::And this is why climatologists playing with models instead of actually examining data from the real world, aren't scientists. It's possible to get so addicted to your models, that you fail to realize that you've fallen into confirmation bias. And consensus, also known as mob-based peer pressure, is only as smart as the lowest IQ in the mob. Which is why climatologists, attempting to top each other's predictions, have a tendency to fall for worst case scenarios, such as Randall's scenario above.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 02:42, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
::::There really ISN'T anything scientific about following consensus. Correlation is not causation. The 99% figure will be scientifically relevant if it will be produced by every scientist independently proving it, not by consensus. And even then ... 100% scientists though time is same everywhere ... then Einstein came with theory and models ... and THEN the models were verified. By Sir Arthur Eddington four years later. THAT made Einstein famous. We don't really have the same kind of proof for AGW. We have lot of data which has been tampered with or cherry-picked, even the scientists can't be sure what to believe. What we DO have proof for is that climate is changing (although some of those changes are LOWERING of temperature).
::::And about the political propositions ... most of them fail to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions itself, not speaking about global temperature - but their economic effect would be huge. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
:Where is he speaking about carbon tax? "Acting now" does not equal one possible instrument. There are plenty of ways for climate change mitigation.--[[User:Ojdo|Ojdo]] ([[User talk:Ojdo|talk]]) 07:55, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I *think* (haven't confirmed) that the 200 m figure is the difference between the peak of the last ice age (sea level low—"-1 IAU" in the strip) and if everything melted. We've already come up 140 m, so we can't go up 200 m from here. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.86|108.162.215.86]] 20:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

There are several troubling things with this comic (including the sea level figure), but the most basic is the opening statement: "Without prompt, aggressive limits on CO2 emissions, the Earth will likely warm by an average of 4°-5°C by the century’s end." This is probably from the latest IPCC report, but it takes the worst of several proposed scenarios, and claims it to be the likely one. RCP8.5 projects 2.6C-4.8C, and I suppose that's what getting averaged *up* to "4.5C" for the temperature line in the comic. The second most troubling thing is that mouse-over text, regarding the 2C lid if we "enact aggressive emissions limits now"—this is an entirely arbitrary (unscientific) number based on largely unspecified changes to what the world is doing now. It gives me the sense that Randall didn't look too deep... [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.86|108.162.215.86]] 20:43, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia, the polar forests during the Ceretaceous period were temperate, not tropical. Thus Firs in the North and Evergreens in Antartica, not Palm trees. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_forests_of_the_Cretaceous [[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 21:17, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Oh wait, did he really say "Palm trees at the poles"? The north pole is already 4,261 meters under water. The nearest land is 700 km away. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.86|108.162.215.86]] 05:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
:It's hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 05:46, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
::Not completely. It's refering to a specific time, the ceretaceous period. When there where forests above 85 degrees in both north and south poles. The forests where temperate though, so palm trees are hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.217|141.101.80.217]] 12:18, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
:::No, it's not hyperbole at all, actually there were tropical-climate trees in polar latitudes in the northern hemisphere during parts of the Cretaceous. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.237|108.162.250.237]] 11:26, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
::::Citation please- everything I could find was Temperate Rain Forests (kind of like still exist in Washington State and British Columbia).[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 12:28, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Independent of everything else, I'm having a tough time reconciling the fact that sea level was apparently 6m or more higher during the Roman era. E.g. the roman settlements and their harbors in places like Caister and Burgh Castle in Norfolk, England? I'm not aware that England has risen 6m. Seems to me that if see levels were to rise as much as 6m we'd just be back to where things were 1600-1700 years ago. {{unsigned ip|103.22.201.239}}
:I'd like to research that, so [needs citation][[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 17:22, 11 June 2014 (UTC)
:Things can be complicated by the likes of 'rebound' of the local area of the Earth's crust after the removal of the weight of glacial ice from various landmasses (although I'm not sure whether that was still producing such measureable effects to those particular locations in Roman times) and other effects. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.232|141.101.98.232]] 11:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
:1600-1700 years ago there were 6+ billion fewer people (a large proportion with dwellings near shorelines, or economically dependant on them somehow) on the planet! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.237|108.162.250.237]] 11:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

According to the Scientific Forecasts from 1986, this should have had already happened by the year 2000: http://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/24/movies/earth-s-climatic-crisis-examined-by-nova.html [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.217|108.162.246.217]] 01:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

1364: Like I'm Five

2014-10-08T06:01:09Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */ since we can't prove that the comic was inspired by Duck Soup, I adjusted the explanation to offer it as a possibility.

{{comic
| number = 1364
| date = May 5, 2014
| title = Like I'm Five
| image = like_im_five.png
| titletext = 'Am I taking care of you? I have a thesis to write!' 'My parents are at their house; you visited last--' 'No, no, explain like you're five.'
}}

==Explanation==
[[Cueball]] wants a simple explanation so he asks [[Megan]] to "Explain it like I'm five". "Explain like I'm five" is a way of asking for a simpler explanation of some difficult topic. Megan applies this literally and talks to him as if he is a 5 year old child. Sarcastic simple explanations is a concept [[Randall]] has explored [[1133: Up Goer Five|previously]].

Megan tells Cueball that she is working on her {{w|Thesis|Thesis}}. A thesis consists of original research and generally deals with material that are difficult for the uninitiated to understand. Cueball anticipates that it will be difficult to understand, and asks her to "Explain like I'm five". Megan sarcastically treats Cueball as if he is an actual 5 year-old without his parents, expressing her concern that a 5 year-old is without any supervision.

In the title text, Megan feigns concern that she will have to abandon her work to take care of this supposed lost child and takes this role-playing further by refusing to respond to Cueball until he phrases his comments as a 5 year-old would.

"Explain it like I'm five" may have been inspired by, {{w|Groucho Marx}}'s (misquoted) line in his movie {{w|Duck Soup (1933 film)|Duck Soup}}. "''Why a four-year-old child could understand this report! Run out and find me a four-year-old child, I can't make head or tail of it.''"[http://muse.tau.ac.il/maslool/boidem/54groucho.html]

==Transcript==
:Cueball: What've you been up to?
:Megan: Doing tons of math for my thesis.
:Cueball: Can you explain it like I'm five?
:Megan: "Oh my god, where are your parents?"

==External links==
*[http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/ Explain like I'm five subreddit.]
*[http://www.freerangekids.com freerangekids.com] blog for and by parents who would rather have their kids asking math grad students questions than constantly reporting their geocoordinates

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]

Talk:1357: Free Speech

2014-10-07T11:44:31Z

Orazor:

It would be nice to mention how this applies only to the Federal government; discussions of how it is enforced on the states may be beyond the scope of this wiki. In addition, it might be amusing to note that freedom of association and other freedoms specified in the Bill of Rights have the same scope. That is, there are very few enumerated powers given to the Federal government, the Bill of Rights specifies some limitations on the Congress - but in general, the restriction on Congress was to the enumerated powers, a concept that made the Bill of Rights redundant - and the Bill of Rights does not apply (as written) to anyone but the Federal government. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.40|173.245.54.40]] 20:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

: The First Amendment also applies to the various State governments (including their subsidiaries, such as local governments) through the {{w|Incorporation Doctrine}}, which is based on the Fourteenth Amendment (which is about the States). To be sure, the text of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't spell out this doctrine, so the whole thing is a bit of a stretch, but it's how the courts interpret it now. This (along with the courts' broad interpretation of the enumerated powers) makes the Bill of Rights far from redundant (and I for one am happy to have it applied as broadly as possible). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 23:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

:I have attempted to address some of the concerns you raised by editing the first paragraph. Please feel free to edit/improve my work. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 11:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

I've clarified the sentence about the Constitution being a legal document. Legal documents are not necessarily limited to government activity (for example, an apartment lease is a legal document but says nothing about what the government can or cannot do). I added the phrase "that defines the structure and powers of the government" to the end of the sentence. [[User:Elsbree|Elsbree]] ([[User talk:Elsbree|talk]]) 04:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Another recent event (within the past couple of weeks) was a campaign against Stephen Colbert for an out-of-context quote taken from a bit on his show. It was hash-tagged under "CancelColbert". Interestingly, people from Fox News that had supported the Duck Dynasty guy were completely against Colbert. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 05:09, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

That door in the last frame is a backdoor to fascism. --[[User:Mus|Mus]] ([[User talk:Mus|talk]]) 06:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
: Are you [http://gawker.com/5951080/vp-debate-attendee-tells-chris-matthews-obama-is-a-communist-but-cant-explain-what-a-communist-is related to this woman?] LOL.
: Nevertheless, I agree the comic would be stronger and more accurate if it didn't have that last panel. Disagreeing with someone's speech doesn't mean you get to throw them out. Places of public accommodation, such as most businesses, are required to be non-discriminatory. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 11:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:: Reading-comprehension fail. Read the '''entire''' bottom row; it is a complete sentence. Removing the last clause negates the first. — [[User:Fluffy Buzzard|Fluffy Buzzard]] ([[User talk:Fluffy Buzzard|talk]]) 14:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
::Businesses are allowed to throw people out for almost any reason. The non-discriminatory clause has nothing to do with what people say, and isn't even tangential to the First Amendment. And yes. Disagreeing with someone in your domain does mean you get to throw them out. In fact, you can throw them out if you do agree with them. Or don't know them. Or if they're your brother. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 21:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Can someone add something saying that other countries also have similar laws on free speech? I would do it myself, but I'm new to editing the wiki and I wouldn't know how to word it. [[User:Cheeselord99|Cheeselord99]] ([[User talk:Cheeselord99|talk]]) 07:19, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:I would if there was some sort of summary of them available. Though there's the {{w|Universal Declaration of Human Rights}} from the UN, I don't think it specifically requires any entity (such as a government body) to do (or not do) anything, just like I understand most anything U.N. related to be. I believe it's a guide/declaration/definition/resolution/statement of belief, and it would then be up to any soverienty to actually enforce or comply with it. [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 12:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
::"Can someone add something saying that other countries also have similar laws on free speech?" Are you implying that you think ALL other countries have similar laws, or SOME other countries have similaar laws? Saying that the local dictator sucks, or that the local religion is bullshit is certainly not protected free speech in many, many countries. --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 23:07, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This is going to be one of those XKCDs everyone is linking to, to make a point.[[User:Jkrstrt|Jkrstrt]] ([[User talk:Jkrstrt|talk]]) 08:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Though, I will say, I'm a bit concerned that the point people may be making is that "Argumentum ad Populum" is totally legit, as there is a suggestion one could infer that if a bunch of people are mad at you for something you say you deserve to be shown the door. And I'm not sure that's the intended message, and even if it is, I'm not sure it's a good one. Speaking an uncomfortable or undesired truth to a community (Which will almost certainly anger them, and make them think you're an asshole, let's say) doesn't mean the door is an appropriate response. On the other hand, when speaking such truths, one probably has a better justification than "Because Free Speech," just hopefully the disgruntled masses will actually listen to it.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.46|108.162.216.46]] 10:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
: That's the point, if your only defense is "Free Speech" - you should be shown the door. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Both Jeff and 108.162.216.46 are accurate. 108.162.216.46's example of an uncomfortable or undesired truth causing anger is possible. It's up the the messenger to make sure that they frame the point properly and use appropriate supporting materials to justify their claims. A messenger with bad news won't say "free speech," they will say "this is the evidence" if they want to avoid being shown the door. {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.85}}
: The issue, of course, is that a lot of people aren't willing to listen to evidence when told things they don't want to hear. Say, I dunno, if you're hanging out on a particularly conservative forum where people are taking turns bashing "Obamacare," even if you have a perfectly rational, backed up by numbers, etc. reason to say it may not be all bad, or may even be good, there's a decent chance that you could get shown the door simply because that's an unpopular opinion no matter how good your reasons are. And it's the sort of person who wants to punish someone simply for saying something unpopular on a forum, simply because it's unpopular (Or, in the case of some admins/mods, something they just don't personally like), who I'm concerned about using this comic as rhetorical backup. For the message of this comic to work, the community/etc. has to be willing to listen to rational evidence and they frequently aren't. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.46|108.162.216.46]] 22:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:: Frankly, it would be entirely appropriate for all those sorts of people to use this comic as rhetorical backup. Your "right" to say what you think, free from interference, applies only in public spaces and on your own property. You certainly do not have the right to use other people's media as vehicles for your thoughts. So yes, it is perfectly right (and, incidentally, the only workable solution) for the person who controls the medium to decide what is said on that medium. And it is perfectly right and just for even the most woefully misguided, closed-minded, power-hungry, dogmatic or extremist admin to point to this comic and say: "I'm not willing to broadcast your opinions". That is the whole point. The freedom NOT to disseminate ideas you disagree with is just as fundamental and suffers very few exceptions. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.122|108.162.229.122]] 00:32, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Just happened to see this today, thought it was relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMqYcRgf-A&t=51s [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.60|173.245.54.60]] 16:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic has it <s>completely</s> backwards! There are people who say "You're violating the First Amendment." when they're being censored by somebody who's not the government; they are mistaken, and this comic would be absolutely correct if it were addressing them. But it's not. In fact, it doesn't talk about the First Amendment (or similar provisions in other constitutions or other laws) at all; it talks only about freedom of speech. [ETA April 19: Whoops, that's wrong! The first panel has it backwards, but the third panel is perfectly correct. So my complaint is that the comic ''conflates'' freedom of speech and the First Amendment, not that it addresses ''only'' freedom of speech.] And if you're being censored on Facebook, or in the privately-owned shopping mall, or wherever, then yes, your freedom of speech is being violated.

It's not illegal, and it may not even be wrong (why should my blog have to display your speech, after all?), but it's still a limitation on your freedom to speak. And if you want to argue that Facebook or the shopping mall (or even my blog) should not do that, then that's a perfectly legitimate position to take. As long as you say nothing about the First Amendment or the like, but instead complain about freedom of speech, then my only response (if I want to respond) is to explain why you shouldn't have free speech on that forum, not some irrelevant blather about the government. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 23:41, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

: The comic does not address the concept of free speech itself; it addresses the *right* to free speech. Sure, your speech might be restricted on certain forums or in certain communities, but you generally have no actual *right* to free speech there. It's simply that the forum or community does not want to support your ideas. --[[User:V2Blast|V2Blast]] ([[User talk:V2Blast|talk]]) 02:37, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

:: Who decides whether that is a right or not? {{unsigned ip|108.162.217.47}}

:: Rights aren't just for governments. Any entity can grant you rights and then uphold or violate them. (Facebook actually calls its terms of service a "Statement of Rights and Responsibilities", which it is, even though it's primarily their rights and our responsibilities.) So one might argue that Facebook (as a public forum intended for everybody and everything) ought to grant freedom of speech (which it kind of does, with a few exceptions, but only implicitly), while a personal blog should not (and then there are also forums that should maybe grant freedom of on-topic speech or something like that). People also consider natural rights (which is how the Declaration of Independence treats them, although free speech is not on its list), but personally I think that it's clearer to discuss what rights ''should'' be rather than what natural rights ''are''. So if somebody claims that FB (eg) is violating their right to free speech, then at best you have them on a technicality (because that is not a natural right and also not a right explicitly granted by FB), but their real point is that FB is violating their freedom of speech (which FB sometimes really does, including in ways that its terms of service does not authorize, hence various complaints from time to time like [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/breastfeeding-photos-facebook-respect-the-breast_n_1285264.html this one]). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 17:30, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I see 2 ironies:
1. Those from the BGLT+ side tend to use the 'Free Speech' argument, too.
2. This was posted in Good Friday.
[[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 23:52, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

:: On the first irony, I think this article rather misrepresents the uproar around the Duck Dynasty incident (which is mentioned in the article explanation). It wasn't just that people felt the guy's rights were violated (the merits of which argument I am not commenting on), but that A&E essentially ambushed him after he gave an opinion, in an interview, that no one should expect he didn't have. It's essentially the same issue with the Chik-fil-a incident, where people became extremely angry over an open Christian donating money to anti-gay groups, even though he was doing so for several years previously. It's not just the first amendment rights, it's that A&E, a company who is so prideful about being open minded and tolerant with the BGLT community, would drop the hammer so hard on someone who was already well-known for having opposite opinions. The point is, while A&E does technically have the right to show the Duck Dynasty guy the door, they cannot seriously do so without seriously undermining their own reasons for firing him. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.45|173.245.54.45]] 18:49, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I've had the situation where I express disagreement with someone and they accuse me of violating their right of free speech. A possible response to this, which I wouldn't actually use, is "I absolutely defend your First Amendment right to behave like a jerk." [[User:Mark314159|Mark314159]] ([[User talk:Mark314159|talk]]) 15:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, while it is correct to say that the kind of actions talked about in this comic don't violate the ''First Amendment'', it's not at all beside the point to point out that there are problems with the ''free speech'' involved. Basically, Randall Munroe is repeating a popular line of argument these days, and one that unfortunately sidesteps the entire issue of whether non-state entities can be censors. If you think the issue through for more than two seconds, it's pretty clear that they can be. Take for example some group of armed thugs physically threatening a journalist. (Hardly a hypothetical - there's a lot of that going on in the world today.) If they don't represent a government, according to a strict interpretation of the argument just made in the above ''xkcd'', they're just providing consequences and "showing the door" to someone who's speech they don't like. So, obviously, there are very clearly non-state actions that amount to censorship.

OK, what about non-violent actions? That still can run into a lot of grey areas. Most certainly, nobody owes anybody else the use of their venue or platform for someone else to make their point - *that* would be a violation of free speech rights to be compelled to do so. And certainly, boycotts of those who's views one disagrees with in order to influence public opinion have a solid history in democratic societies. What is problematic, however, and crosses the line into a kind of privatized censorship is the kind of "no platform" activism that seems to be in fashion these days, that seeks to deny *any* venue to those who are deemed to have unacceptable views or are practicing "hate speech" - slippery and ever-expanding concepts, it seems to me. Who is it that should have the power to "show the door" into outright silencing? BTW, a recent blog post raises these concerns in response to the above cartoon [http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/04/xkcd-is-wrong-about-free-speech.html here], and I blogged about this at length last year [http://www.skepticink.com/skepticallyleft/2013/04/07/sunday-sinner-guest-post-iamcuriousblue/ here] in regards to some of the more censorious actions of Ada Initiative. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 04:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

:Look, the two concepts you raise are different things. And it's not a government's job to determine which point of view is valid or best, or even to protect or promote that PoV. The point is that the U.S. government (in this case) must remain un-hostile (if that's a word) to dissenting points of view. In fact, ''especially'' towards dissenting points of view. Thugs threatening journalists? I agree that's a problem. And the state/local government (in most cases) should do its best to prevent this kind of coercion. The overarching principle is that within the U.S. is that we want to create as open a marketplace for ideas as possible. That marketplace structure does not determine the value of a speech's content. It simply allows it to exist.

:So the USG can't prevent others from not listening, or even from telling a speaker to shut up. You must see that this ''cannot'' be the role of a government that is seeking to promote open and constructive discourse. Because once the government starts favoring one PoV or providing "more favored treatment" for, let's say, your coerced journalist, then it is condoning or supporting that particular speech over others. And that, if you think about it for more than two seconds, is in itself infringing on the very same free speech guarantee. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 11:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

In fact, there are (admittedly rare) situations in which the "right to free speech" can require a private entity to host a speaker. Marsh v. Alabama involved a Jehovah's Witness handing out literature in a company town completely owned by a corporation. The Supreme Court held that because the admittedly private spaces in a company town were akin to public spaces, the company could not enforce a trespassing law against the Jehovah's Witness without violating the First Amendment. So long as one is talking about the "right to free speech" (which goes beyond the First Amendment), the Pruneyard Shopping Center case, in which a mall owner was forced to allow participation by a speaker due to a California law expanding free speech rights in commercial areas, serves as another example of where a private entity can be forced to accommodate another's speech. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.13|173.245.54.13]] 10:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

'''TL;DR''' --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:52, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

A very recent article that pretty much shreds this comic. XKCD is usually on point, but this one goes a bit too far. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/04/22/freedom_to_marry_freedom_to_dissent_why_we_must_have_both_122376.html {{unsigned ip|173.245.56.86}}

I find it very disturbing that one of the most popular science-themed comics on the Internet gives a free pass to the Catholic church like this. The Catholic church is not a government, it is an international cultural institution, therefore, if the Catholic church bans people, ideas, speech, and behavior from all domains of its organizational influence, this comic clearly supports such a move. (I doubt the author needs a primer on that part of history.) The stated position that free speech only means that government can't come after you, but cultural institutions can and you just need to be quiet and leave if you disagree with that. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.85}}
:As an atheist, the Catholic church's policies have no relevance to me. I do not visit Catholic churches, I do not attend Catholic schools, and I do not use Catholic businesses. If anyone doesn't like what they do, they -can- just leave. When enough people are fed up, they'll be a cultural institution of zero. Or one, or whatever. A number too small to have any bearing on society at large. Unless you're suggesting that people somehow have a right to impose things on someone else's property, which is false. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 09:54, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
:: I believe that Randall made this comic without fully thinking of the implications of the stance it takes. I mean, it certainly is a backlash against currently so-called homophobic (I have problems with this word) community, but it also essentially justifies a whole lot of other stuff this society wouldn't deem right. {{unsigned ip|173.245.56.86}}

:: I'd like to explain all the ways I think this comic is ridiculous- if, indeed, he;s talking about what everyone thinks he's talking about:

::1. His casual and condescending dismissal of actual, seriously held points of view as mere trolling.

::2. His pretending that all these debates are about is so much trolling, akin to a website choosing to remove someone disruptive.

::3. Every who's protested this has stressed that they have no argument that Mozilla had a legal right to do as they please; they are making a more moral argument. To many, alas, *anything* is government action or it's nothing at all, so moral arguments, interestingly, end up having no weight.

::4. Many on the "other side" have had no problem calling "Freedom of Speech!" with little to no actual legal basis. Turnabout is...

::5. Those same people have often had no issue with actual repression even when government (e.g., a state university) is involved. One wonders what the argument would be like if, say, Woolworth's refused to serve blacks at their lunch counters. Oh wait. Well, turnabout again.

::That's most of what I can think of off the top of my head.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.224|141.101.88.224]] 20:52, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

HAAY GUISE I HAS A OPINON AND YOU ALL MUST LISTEN TO ME OKAY HERE GOES WAIT DON'T DELETE ME WAAAGH!!! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.71|199.27.128.71]] 06:16, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

How recent was the Clippers scandal in relation to this comic? I just saw on Facebook's trending bar that sponsors are pulling away so they won't be associated with racism, and people are crying about the First Amendment. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 05:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

;Off topic — Free Speech Schtonk!
At {{w|The Great Dictator}}, the greatest movie Charlie Chaplin ever did, the Führer shouts: "Demokratsie Schtonk! Liberty Schtonk! Free Sprekken Schtonk!“ The word {{w|Schtonk!}} was also used as the title of a satirical German movie, retelling the hoax of the {{w|Hitler Diaries}}.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1357: Free Speech

2014-10-07T11:42:34Z

Orazor:

It would be nice to mention how this applies only to the Federal government; discussions of how it is enforced on the states may be beyond the scope of this wiki. In addition, it might be amusing to note that freedom of association and other freedoms specified in the Bill of Rights have the same scope. That is, there are very few enumerated powers given to the Federal government, the Bill of Rights specifies some limitations on the Congress - but in general, the restriction on Congress was to the enumerated powers, a concept that made the Bill of Rights redundant - and the Bill of Rights does not apply (as written) to anyone but the Federal government. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.40|173.245.54.40]] 20:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

: The First Amendment also applies to the various State governments (including their subsidiaries, such as local governments) through the {{w|Incorporation Doctrine}}, which is based on the Fourteenth Amendment (which is about the States). To be sure, the text of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't spell out this doctrine, so the whole thing is a bit of a stretch, but it's how the courts interpret it now. This (along with the courts' broad interpretation of the enumerated powers) makes the Bill of Rights far from redundant (and I for one am happy to have it applied as broadly as possible). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 23:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

:I have attempted to address some of the concerns you raised by editing the first paragraph. Please feel free to edit/improve my work. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 11:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

I've clarified the sentence about the Constitution being a legal document. Legal documents are not necessarily limited to government activity (for example, an apartment lease is a legal document but says nothing about what the government can or cannot do). I added the phrase "that defines the structure and powers of the government" to the end of the sentence. [[User:Elsbree|Elsbree]] ([[User talk:Elsbree|talk]]) 04:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Another recent event (within the past couple of weeks) was a campaign against Stephen Colbert for an out-of-context quote taken from a bit on his show. It was hash-tagged under "CancelColbert". Interestingly, people from Fox News that had supported the Duck Dynasty guy were completely against Colbert. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 05:09, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

That door in the last frame is a backdoor to fascism. --[[User:Mus|Mus]] ([[User talk:Mus|talk]]) 06:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
: Are you [http://gawker.com/5951080/vp-debate-attendee-tells-chris-matthews-obama-is-a-communist-but-cant-explain-what-a-communist-is related to this woman?] LOL.
: Nevertheless, I agree the comic would be stronger and more accurate if it didn't have that last panel. Disagreeing with someone's speech doesn't mean you get to throw them out. Places of public accommodation, such as most businesses, are required to be non-discriminatory. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 11:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:: Reading-comprehension fail. Read the '''entire''' bottom row; it is a complete sentence. Removing the last clause negates the first. — [[User:Fluffy Buzzard|Fluffy Buzzard]] ([[User talk:Fluffy Buzzard|talk]]) 14:38, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
::Businesses are allowed to throw people out for almost any reason. The non-discriminatory clause has nothing to do with what people say, and isn't even tangential to the First Amendment. And yes. Disagreeing with someone in your domain does mean you get to throw them out. In fact, you can throw them out if you do agree with them. Or don't know them. Or if they're your brother. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 21:25, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Can someone add something saying that other countries also have similar laws on free speech? I would do it myself, but I'm new to editing the wiki and I wouldn't know how to word it. [[User:Cheeselord99|Cheeselord99]] ([[User talk:Cheeselord99|talk]]) 07:19, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:I would if there was some sort of summary of them available. Though there's the {{w|Universal Declaration of Human Rights}} from the UN, I don't think it specifically requires any entity (such as a government body) to do (or not do) anything, just like I understand most anything U.N. related to be. I believe it's a guide/declaration/definition/resolution/statement of belief, and it would then be up to any soverienty to actually enforce or comply with it. [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 12:08, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
::"Can someone add something saying that other countries also have similar laws on free speech?" Are you implying that you think ALL other countries have similar laws, or SOME other countries have similaar laws? Saying that the local dictator sucks, or that the local religion is bullshit is certainly not protected free speech in many, many countries. --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 23:07, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

This is going to be one of those XKCDs everyone is linking to, to make a point.[[User:Jkrstrt|Jkrstrt]] ([[User talk:Jkrstrt|talk]]) 08:27, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Though, I will say, I'm a bit concerned that the point people may be making is that "Argumentum ad Populum" is totally legit, as there is a suggestion one could infer that if a bunch of people are mad at you for something you say you deserve to be shown the door. And I'm not sure that's the intended message, and even if it is, I'm not sure it's a good one. Speaking an uncomfortable or undesired truth to a community (Which will almost certainly anger them, and make them think you're an asshole, let's say) doesn't mean the door is an appropriate response. On the other hand, when speaking such truths, one probably has a better justification than "Because Free Speech," just hopefully the disgruntled masses will actually listen to it.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.46|108.162.216.46]] 10:49, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
: That's the point, if your only defense is "Free Speech" - you should be shown the door. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:05, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Both Jeff and 108.162.216.46 are accurate. 108.162.216.46's example of an uncomfortable or undesired truth causing anger is possible. It's up the the messenger to make sure that they frame the point properly and use appropriate supporting materials to justify their claims. A messenger with bad news won't say "free speech," they will say "this is the evidence" if they want to avoid being shown the door. {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.85}}
: The issue, of course, is that a lot of people aren't willing to listen to evidence when told things they don't want to hear. Say, I dunno, if you're hanging out on a particularly conservative forum where people are taking turns bashing "Obamacare," even if you have a perfectly rational, backed up by numbers, etc. reason to say it may not be all bad, or may even be good, there's a decent chance that you could get shown the door simply because that's an unpopular opinion no matter how good your reasons are. And it's the sort of person who wants to punish someone simply for saying something unpopular on a forum, simply because it's unpopular (Or, in the case of some admins/mods, something they just don't personally like), who I'm concerned about using this comic as rhetorical backup. For the message of this comic to work, the community/etc. has to be willing to listen to rational evidence and they frequently aren't. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.46|108.162.216.46]] 22:55, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:: Frankly, it would be entirely appropriate for all those sorts of people to use this comic as rhetorical backup. Your "right" to say what you think, free from interference, applies only in public spaces and on your own property. You certainly do not have the right to use other people's media as vehicles for your thoughts. So yes, it is perfectly right (and, incidentally, the only workable solution) for the person who controls the medium to decide what is said on that medium. And it is perfectly right and just for even the most woefully misguided, closed-minded, power-hungry, dogmatic or extremist admin to point to this comic and say: "I'm not willing to broadcast your opinions". That is the whole point. The freedom NOT to disseminate ideas you disagree with is just as fundamental and suffers very few exceptions. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.122|108.162.229.122]] 00:32, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Just happened to see this today, thought it was relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMqYcRgf-A&t=51s [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.60|173.245.54.60]] 16:56, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic has it <s>completely</s> backwards! There are people who say "You're violating the First Amendment." when they're being censored by somebody who's not the government; they are mistaken, and this comic would be absolutely correct if it were addressing them. But it's not. In fact, it doesn't talk about the First Amendment (or similar provisions in other constitutions or other laws) at all; it talks only about freedom of speech. [ETA April 19: Whoops, that's wrong! The first panel has it backwards, but the third panel is perfectly correct. So my complaint is that the comic ''conflates'' freedom of speech and the First Amendment, not that it addresses ''only'' freedom of speech.] And if you're being censored on Facebook, or in the privately-owned shopping mall, or wherever, then yes, your freedom of speech is being violated.

It's not illegal, and it may not even be wrong (why should my blog have to display your speech, after all?), but it's still a limitation on your freedom to speak. And if you want to argue that Facebook or the shopping mall (or even my blog) should not do that, then that's a perfectly legitimate position to take. As long as you say nothing about the First Amendment or the like, but instead complain about freedom of speech, then my only response (if I want to respond) is to explain why you shouldn't have free speech on that forum, not some irrelevant blather about the government. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 23:41, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

: The comic does not address the concept of free speech itself; it addresses the *right* to free speech. Sure, your speech might be restricted on certain forums or in certain communities, but you generally have no actual *right* to free speech there. It's simply that the forum or community does not want to support your ideas. --[[User:V2Blast|V2Blast]] ([[User talk:V2Blast|talk]]) 02:37, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

:: Who decides whether that is a right or not? {{unsigned ip|108.162.217.47}}

:: Rights aren't just for governments. Any entity can grant you rights and then uphold or violate them. (Facebook actually calls its terms of service a "Statement of Rights and Responsibilities", which it is, even though it's primarily their rights and our responsibilities.) So one might argue that Facebook (as a public forum intended for everybody and everything) ought to grant freedom of speech (which it kind of does, with a few exceptions, but only implicitly), while a personal blog should not (and then there are also forums that should maybe grant freedom of on-topic speech or something like that). People also consider natural rights (which is how the Declaration of Independence treats them, although free speech is not on its list), but personally I think that it's clearer to discuss what rights ''should'' be rather than what natural rights ''are''. So if somebody claims that FB (eg) is violating their right to free speech, then at best you have them on a technicality (because that is not a natural right and also not a right explicitly granted by FB), but their real point is that FB is violating their freedom of speech (which FB sometimes really does, including in ways that its terms of service does not authorize, hence various complaints from time to time like [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/18/breastfeeding-photos-facebook-respect-the-breast_n_1285264.html this one]). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 17:30, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I see 2 ironies:
1. Those from the BGLT+ side tend to use the 'Free Speech' argument, too.
2. This was posted in Good Friday.
[[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 23:52, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

:: On the first irony, I think this article rather misrepresents the uproar around the Duck Dynasty incident (which is mentioned in the article explanation). It wasn't just that people felt the guy's rights were violated (the merits of which argument I am not commenting on), but that A&E essentially ambushed him after he gave an opinion, in an interview, that no one should expect he didn't have. It's essentially the same issue with the Chik-fil-a incident, where people became extremely angry over an open Christian donating money to anti-gay groups, even though he was doing so for several years previously. It's not just the first amendment rights, it's that A&E, a company who is so prideful about being open minded and tolerant with the BGLT community, would drop the hammer so hard on someone who was already well-known for having opposite opinions. The point is, while A&E does technically have the right to show the Duck Dynasty guy the door, they cannot seriously do so without seriously undermining their own reasons for firing him. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.45|173.245.54.45]] 18:49, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

I've had the situation where I express disagreement with someone and they accuse me of violating their right of free speech. A possible response to this, which I wouldn't actually use, is "I absolutely defend your First Amendment right to behave like a jerk." [[User:Mark314159|Mark314159]] ([[User talk:Mark314159|talk]]) 15:14, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, while it is correct to say that the kind of actions talked about in this comic don't violate the ''First Amendment'', it's not at all beside the point to point out that there are problems with the ''free speech'' involved. Basically, Randall Munroe is repeating a popular line of argument these days, and one that unfortunately sidesteps the entire issue of whether non-state entities can be censors. If you think the issue through for more than two seconds, it's pretty clear that they can be. Take for example some group of armed thugs physically threatening a journalist. (Hardly a hypothetical - there's a lot of that going on in the world today.) If they don't represent a government, according to a strict interpretation of the argument just made in the above ''xkcd'', they're just providing consequences and "showing the door" to someone who's speech they don't like. So, obviously, there are very clearly non-state actions that amount to censorship.

:Look, the two concepts you raise are different things. And it's not a government's job to determine which point of view is valid or best, or even to protect or promote that PoV. The point is that the U.S. government (in this case) must remain un-hostile (if that's a word) to dissenting points of view. In fact, ''especially'' towards dissenting points of view. Thugs threatening journalists? I agree that's a problem. And the state/local government (in most cases) should do its best to prevent this kind of coercion. The overarching principle is that within the U.S. is that we want to create as open a marketplace for ideas as possible. That marketplace structure does not determine the value of a speech's content. It simply allows it to exist.

:So the USG can't prevent others from not listening, or even from telling a speaker to shut up. You must see that this ''cannot'' be the role of a government that is seeking to promote open and constructive discourse. Because once the government starts favoring one PoV or providing "more favored treatment" for, let's say, your coerced journalist, then it is condoning or supporting that particular speech over others. And that, if you think about it for more than two seconds, is in itself infringing on the very same free speech guarantee. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 11:42, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

OK, what about non-violent actions? That still can run into a lot of grey areas. Most certainly, nobody owes anybody else the use of their venue or platform for someone else to make their point - *that* would be a violation of free speech rights to be compelled to do so. And certainly, boycotts of those who's views one disagrees with in order to influence public opinion have a solid history in democratic societies. What is problematic, however, and crosses the line into a kind of privatized censorship is the kind of "no platform" activism that seems to be in fashion these days, that seeks to deny *any* venue to those who are deemed to have unacceptable views or are practicing "hate speech" - slippery and ever-expanding concepts, it seems to me. Who is it that should have the power to "show the door" into outright silencing? BTW, a recent blog post raises these concerns in response to the above cartoon [http://blog.erratasec.com/2014/04/xkcd-is-wrong-about-free-speech.html here], and I blogged about this at length last year [http://www.skepticink.com/skepticallyleft/2013/04/07/sunday-sinner-guest-post-iamcuriousblue/ here] in regards to some of the more censorious actions of Ada Initiative. [[User:Iamcuriousblue|Iamcuriousblue]] ([[User talk:Iamcuriousblue|talk]]) 04:17, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

In fact, there are (admittedly rare) situations in which the "right to free speech" can require a private entity to host a speaker. Marsh v. Alabama involved a Jehovah's Witness handing out literature in a company town completely owned by a corporation. The Supreme Court held that because the admittedly private spaces in a company town were akin to public spaces, the company could not enforce a trespassing law against the Jehovah's Witness without violating the First Amendment. So long as one is talking about the "right to free speech" (which goes beyond the First Amendment), the Pruneyard Shopping Center case, in which a mall owner was forced to allow participation by a speaker due to a California law expanding free speech rights in commercial areas, serves as another example of where a private entity can be forced to accommodate another's speech. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.13|173.245.54.13]] 10:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

'''TL;DR''' --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:52, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

A very recent article that pretty much shreds this comic. XKCD is usually on point, but this one goes a bit too far. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/04/22/freedom_to_marry_freedom_to_dissent_why_we_must_have_both_122376.html {{unsigned ip|173.245.56.86}}

I find it very disturbing that one of the most popular science-themed comics on the Internet gives a free pass to the Catholic church like this. The Catholic church is not a government, it is an international cultural institution, therefore, if the Catholic church bans people, ideas, speech, and behavior from all domains of its organizational influence, this comic clearly supports such a move. (I doubt the author needs a primer on that part of history.) The stated position that free speech only means that government can't come after you, but cultural institutions can and you just need to be quiet and leave if you disagree with that. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.85}}
:As an atheist, the Catholic church's policies have no relevance to me. I do not visit Catholic churches, I do not attend Catholic schools, and I do not use Catholic businesses. If anyone doesn't like what they do, they -can- just leave. When enough people are fed up, they'll be a cultural institution of zero. Or one, or whatever. A number too small to have any bearing on society at large. Unless you're suggesting that people somehow have a right to impose things on someone else's property, which is false. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 09:54, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
:: I believe that Randall made this comic without fully thinking of the implications of the stance it takes. I mean, it certainly is a backlash against currently so-called homophobic (I have problems with this word) community, but it also essentially justifies a whole lot of other stuff this society wouldn't deem right. {{unsigned ip|173.245.56.86}}

:: I'd like to explain all the ways I think this comic is ridiculous- if, indeed, he;s talking about what everyone thinks he's talking about:

::1. His casual and condescending dismissal of actual, seriously held points of view as mere trolling.

::2. His pretending that all these debates are about is so much trolling, akin to a website choosing to remove someone disruptive.

::3. Every who's protested this has stressed that they have no argument that Mozilla had a legal right to do as they please; they are making a more moral argument. To many, alas, *anything* is government action or it's nothing at all, so moral arguments, interestingly, end up having no weight.

::4. Many on the "other side" have had no problem calling "Freedom of Speech!" with little to no actual legal basis. Turnabout is...

::5. Those same people have often had no issue with actual repression even when government (e.g., a state university) is involved. One wonders what the argument would be like if, say, Woolworth's refused to serve blacks at their lunch counters. Oh wait. Well, turnabout again.

::That's most of what I can think of off the top of my head.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.224|141.101.88.224]] 20:52, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

HAAY GUISE I HAS A OPINON AND YOU ALL MUST LISTEN TO ME OKAY HERE GOES WAIT DON'T DELETE ME WAAAGH!!! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.71|199.27.128.71]] 06:16, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

How recent was the Clippers scandal in relation to this comic? I just saw on Facebook's trending bar that sponsors are pulling away so they won't be associated with racism, and people are crying about the First Amendment. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.218|108.162.237.218]] 05:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

;Off topic — Free Speech Schtonk!
At {{w|The Great Dictator}}, the greatest movie Charlie Chaplin ever did, the Führer shouts: "Demokratsie Schtonk! Liberty Schtonk! Free Sprekken Schtonk!“ The word {{w|Schtonk!}} was also used as the title of a satirical German movie, retelling the hoax of the {{w|Hitler Diaries}}.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:59, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

1357: Free Speech

2014-10-07T11:22:48Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */ the first paragraph needed some help. I fleshed out some ideas and improved the readability.

{{comic
| number = 1357
| date = April 18, 2014
| title = Free Speech
| image = free_speech.png
| titletext = I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
}}

==Explanation==
Both on the Internet and in the physical world, people with unpopular or poorly thought out opinions may complain that their freedom of speech is being restricted because others express their distaste for those opinions. As a defense, these individuals may invoke the {{w|First Amendment to the United States Constitution}}, which provides, among other things, for {{w|freedom of speech}} for any entity or person under legal jurisdiction of the U.S. More specifically, it states that "Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Originally intended as a restriction on the powers of U.S. federal government, which the Constitution defines, structures, and delimits, over time the First Amendment, as well as several others, were "incorporated" via the {{w|Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution|Fourteenth Amendment}} to apply to state and local governments as well. This protection of free speech, however, does not extend to illegal activities (for example, the concept of a "clear and present danger"), and it does not compel others to listen to or acknowledge the speech. The intended targets of the speech may simply choose to stop listening, or to speak louder in protest.

An example of this is the incident involving the TV program ''{{w|Duck Dynasty}}'', in which television network {{w|A+E Networks}} [http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/12/18/duck-dynasty-robertson-phil/?hpt=hp_t2 suspended the host after he made homophobic remarks], causing some to comment that his rights had been infringed upon. Similarly, [http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26895858 controversy erupted when Brendan Eich was forced to resign] as CEO of {{w|Mozilla Corporation|Mozilla}} because it was revealed he had donated money to anti-gay marriage efforts in California. In actuality, the First Amendment was never meant to provide immunity from any and all consequences.

[[Cueball]] is addressing anyone who has used this argument. As the comic says, just because you're legally allowed to say something doesn't mean that everyone is legally required to listen. It also does not mean that a commercial or social entity — such as a TV network, a website, or its community — is legally required to support you in spreading your message, even if it had supported you in the past. If someone says something stupid or offensive, he or she should be ready to accept the consequences.

The title text points out the irony of anyone appealing to free speech as a defense for their argument or opinion. If the only thing that someone can say in support of an argument is effectively that it is not ''illegal'', then they are severely undermining it by essentially admitting that they don't have any better defense for it.

==Transcript==
:Cueball: Public Service Announcement: The '''Right to Free Speech''' means the government can't arrest you for what you say.

:Cueball: It doesn't mean that anyone '''''else''''' has to listen to your bullshit, or host you while you share it.

:Cueball: The 1st amendment doesn't shield you from criticism or consequences.

:Cueball: If you're yelled at, boycotted, have your show canceled, or get banned from an Internet community, your free speech rights aren't being violated.

:Cueball: It's just that the people listening think you're an asshole,

:[A picture of an open door is displayed.]
:Cueball: And they're showing you the door.

==Trivia==
*One famous example of this is {{w|Schenck_v._United_States|Schenck v. United States}}, where the expression "{{w|shouting fire in a crowded theater}}" gave rise: just because a person can say anything they want, it doesn't mean that they are protected from ''everything'', even if they are lying.
*The {{w|Speakers' Corner}} at the Hyde Park in London is another example, everybody can hold a speech but there is no guarantee for a big auditorium.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Talk:1356: Orbital Mechanics

2014-10-07T10:46:34Z

Orazor:

I just put in a first attempt at the explanation. Could do with links to pages regarding KSP, etc, etc. (Or rewrite entirely how it ought to be done, of course.) Also, if anyone knows ''for sure'' that "aim nose at destination, fire retros", as seen in the film Gravity, would or would not give the desired effect, that'd be useful to clarify or dismiss. From my own experience with the Kerbals, it wouldn't (never mind all the other broad assumptions made in that otherwise spectacular film  ), but KSP ''also'' rather fudges away the N-body problem, artificially. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.209|141.101.88.209]] 05:38, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

:You are correct that "aim nose, fire retros" doesn't work in reality. KSP fudges the n-body problem by putting the planets and moons on tracks, and then changing you into a different 2-body problem when you cross into a smaller {{w|hill sphere}} than the one you were in. The maneuver node system does a little bit of n-body work when you get a maneuver close to another body, but you'll notice that when the ship actually crosses into the other hill sphere the trajectory for the maneuver goes weird. It's a rather clever optimization for a simulator like KSP. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:21, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

I really wish there was a downwards curve for "I saw Armageddon". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.60|108.162.221.60]] 06:26, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

:There will be a huge upwards curve on "how much I think i know about orbital mechanics" - See {{w|Dunning-Krueger effect}} for more info. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.77|108.162.229.77]] 14:40, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

;Future mission failure due to discrepancies in Kerbal Space Program
I note some differences in KSP (from wikipedia):

:The game simulates trajectories and orbits using patched conic approximation instead of a full n-body simulation, and thus does not support Lagrange points and halo orbits.

:The celestial bodies in the Kerbal solar system are about 1/10 the radius of their real-universe equivalents yet have comparable surface gravity, implying that they have unrealistically high densities. This change to scale makes many tasks considerably easier. For example, a surface to low-Kerbin-orbit launch requires a delta-v of about 4.5 km/s, compared to 9.5 km/s for a low-Earth-orbit launch. In particular, because of the game also having unrealistically efficient and flexible (in terms of speed and altitude) turbojet engines, this means it is much easier to make a single-stage-to-orbit vehicle using jet engines to accelerate a vehicle to orbital speed on only a small fraction of its mass in jet fuel, then give a tiny boost with rockets to reach orbit, whereas in real life, a highly efficient but powerful and lightweight scramjet would be necessary to do the same with several times the amount of fuel.

So I predict some probability that, after reading this comic, some NASA person will make the mistake of designing real missions using notions or designs from it, which will fail in real life (or at least be ridiculed at mission design review time). And then Randall will have to write a really challenging comic about it..... [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 13:12, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

: Maybe Randall should add a horizontal line well over the curve, labelled: ''Level of knowledge required for a successful mission in real life'' - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.185|108.162.254.185]] 10:32, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

: Do you really think that a trained, qualified person at NASA, who ''had to go to school and study physics'' to plan missions, will be stupid enough to revert from his physics degree to Kerbal Space Program, thus reenacting [[1244:_Six_Words]]? I think that unlikely. [[User:Jetman123|Jetman123]] ([[User talk:Jetman123|talk]]) 07:53, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

''Once at that lower orbit, your velocity is faster'' ... really? I though that on lower orbit, your velocity is slower BUT your {{w|Angular_velocity|ANGULAR velocity}} is faster, which is the reason you start to overtake your target ... but I never played Kerbal, so I may be wrong. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:37, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

:According to the {{w|Kepler's equation|Kepler's Equation}} a lower orbit means faster speeds. The Kerbal program is much more sophisticated and I even still did not figure out how to use my German keyboard on that Demo. Nevertheless, orbital mechanics are simple in general and then look at {{w|Neil Armstrong}} at {{w|Gemini 8}} — moving around in weightlessness is not easy. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:09, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

He was born with innate knowledge of orbital mechanics equivalent to roughly freaking 20-25% of high school physics! THAT is Randall Munroe, ladies and gentlemen! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.48|108.162.212.48]] 00:40, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

:Not to put too fine a point on it, and I am in no way anything even close to resembling a physicist, engineer, etc., but I expect that most people are probably "born" (i.e. gain from birth to HS physics) with a similar level of understanding. I am happy to be corrected on this point, but I would imagine that the 20-25% level cited probably involves a basic conceptual understanding of Newtonian physics that we all gain from our life experience from birth to 17/18 years. From what I recall, HS physics clarified some of these principles and revealed the mathematical structures behind them. With that in mind, I'm pretty comfortable saying that my knowledge of physics pre-HS was about 1/4 of the final. And now that it's been about 15 years, I'm probably back down to the same level. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:46, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1332: Slippery Slope

2014-10-06T06:50:27Z

Orazor:

Wow, and I used to think White Hat was well-meaning but stupid; the inverse of Black Hat. I never knew he was such an asshole...
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.65|199.27.128.65]] 09:11, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
::My own first thought was "That's a Black Hat Voice...". Then I started wondering what White Beret would have said, in his stead, and that sufficiently distracted me... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.7|141.101.99.7]] 13:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
::Maybe he's being sarcastic?[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.111|108.162.249.111]] 23:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

::I read that as more of an introverted perspective (though to an extreme) than him being an asshole.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.57|173.245.54.57]] 16:20, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

::Yeah, I don't really understand what Randall's trying to say by making him a White Hat.--[[User:Ricketybridge|Ricketybridge]] ([[User talk:Ricketybridge|talk]]) 23:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

::Remember that it is this page that has put Cueball and White Hat tags on these persons. Randall does not follow this page... Hence he can change them at will, and especially the Cueball character behaves quite different from comic to comic - sometimes there are more than one Cueball in the same comic. On the other hand, I do believe that Randall uses White Hat as "the same person" every time. However, where White Hat may not wish to go out of his way to be nice - this has nothing in comparison to Black Hat who will go out of his way (a long way) to be mean to everyone. So this is not a typical Black Hat discussion in the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

::I also wonder what the deal is here with White Hat. I usually think of him as the proponent of "conventional wisdom," which is often misguided,smug, and self-righteous... but not usually malicious. Black Hat obviously has that one cornered. And yes, I do understand that Randall "doesn't read this site," but that doesn't mean that he isn't saying something by using White Hat here. He's obviously put a sign out there. It's up to us to decode the signifier. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 06:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

"Where does it end"? - Marriage, obviously. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:29, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

;Reminds me of a scene in 3:10 to Yuma (2007) with Russell Crowe and Christian Bale

Ben Wade (Russell Crowe) speaking to Dan Evans (Christian Bale):
"Yeah, that's why I don't mess around with doing anything good, Dan. You do one good deed for somebody... I imagine it's habit-forming. Something decent. See that grateful look in their eyes, imagine it makes you feel like Christ Hisself."

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.30|108.162.216.30]] 20:24, 19 February 2014 (UTC)CAM

In the U.S., the satellite company DirectTV has a series of humorous commercials using the Slippery Slope argument as part of their "Get Rid of Cable" campaign. They all start with a person using cable tv, having problems of some sort, and then ending up in a dire situation such as waking up in a roadside ditch, selling your hair to a wig shop, etc. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.67|199.27.128.67]] 22:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Am I the only one thinking maybe we might take the literal meaning out of this, too? Seems like every day someone else gets fed up with being a douche.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.111|108.162.249.111]] 23:19, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

The classical "slippery slope" argument against cannabis legalization is that if we legalize cannabis, we must also legalize other drugs, eventually leading to legalizing heroin. This also mirrors the slippery slope argument in the comic. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.127|173.245.53.127]] 11:44, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Updated and expanded explanation. Is it sufficient now?[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.152|173.245.56.152]] 23:49, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1285: Third Way

2014-10-01T09:20:39Z

Orazor:

One line per sentence is reminiscent of a diagrammed/formal logic argument in philosophy. It would be a much more effective convention to help people parse and interpret content and validity of e.g. political claims. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.63.198|173.245.63.198]] 17:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Line break after every sentence. 
Because I can. 
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.7|108.162.245.7]] 04:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

ONE SPACE AFTER A PERIOD. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 04:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:MY VOTE TOO!!! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:MY VOTE, TWO!!! (not really) [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:20, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Writing plaintext, I always do two spaces after a sentence ending period.
This is probably because I did in fact start typing on a real typewriter.
In an environment where automatic formatting will take place, like a web page or wiki text, I use the newline.
I have had people in this wiki collapse my multiple line forms to one of the others.
(I was disappointed.)
--[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 04:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I prefer double spacing, but I used single spacing in writing the explanation, just to make people happy. Perhaps I should have used new lines. [[User:Concomitant|Concomitant]] ([[User talk:Concomitant|talk]]) 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: I'm a double-spacer too. Am I wrong? I can't break myself of the habit, I even do it in tweets! --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The 'third way' is a little underappreciated here: it divides the text into self contained logical units, and makes text processing tools (grep, diff etc.) much more usable.
Proper text rendering engines (TeX, HTML, etc.) already make this assumption and group sentences accordingly.
If only I realized this earlier, it would have made my thesis revisions much more easier.
In fact, up to this moment, I thought I was that lone guy in the comic.
EDIT: this comment in xkcd forums makes my point clear: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=106217#p3489055
--[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.11|141.101.96.11]] 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:As a programmer, I find nothing weird in adapting your style to language. Writing two spaces in HTML or TeX is useless, as they won't render as two spaces anyway. (While using for this purpose nonbreakable spaces, which would render, is a crime.) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::It would also render incorrectly if the period was close to the end of a line. If the markup is [last word of sentence][period][nbsp][space][next sentence], the last word of the first sentence could end up on the next line unnecessarily. But if it's [last word of sentence][period][space][nbsp][next sentence], the next line of text would start with a space, which is much worse.--[[User:Rael|Rael]] ([[User talk:Rael|talk]]) 15:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

::I end my sentences with a line break, a % and another linebreak. Only after commata etc i use a single line break. Oh, and don't forget to protect the space after points used in abbreviations, not as full stops, by a backslash. Most TeX increase the length of the space after a full stop a bit. Bit question: Why don't double space people, when using Word not just use a longer space instead of a double space. Noone would have the idea to indent a paragraph or substitute a tab with a series of spaces.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.117|108.162.242.117]] 03:11, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:::Because the keyboard does not contain a longer space key.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I always just find and replace double space with single space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.228|108.162.231.228]] 06:33, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Synthetica

I always just find and replace single space with double space. If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

So, why did double spacing after a period ever exist? It doesn't seem necessary. [[User:PheagleAdler|PheagleAdler]] ([[User talk:PheagleAdler|talk]]) 07:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Here's the standard explanation: on typewriters, each character takes up the same amount of space. So a lower-case "i" takes up the same amount of space as a capital "M". This is called a monospace font. When typing, if you just put a single space after the end of period ending a sentence, the reader doesn't necessarily get the sense that a new sentence has started. This is particularly true if you were typing in all caps, as might be common on some types of forms or documents. Two spaces, however, does the job nicely. In theory, with modern proportional-width fonts, this is unnecessary. [[User:Rylon|Rylon]] ([[User talk:Rylon|talk]]) 23:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

even though i learned typing on a typewriter, to this day i had never heard of the double space thing. maybe it's a US only thing, like the stupid french with spaces BEFORE punctuation marks. [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 07:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:I've always taken the double-space thing as a US thing. Some editors like emacs default to it, which is really annoying. That said, as a frenchman, the "space before punctuation" is normal to me and it is part of the ''codified'' typography -- and I think this is actually an important distinction to make. Is this double-space vs single-space something codified somehow? As a last word, I need to be nitpicky: the exact French typography rule is "a space before punctuation made of two parts (namely colon, semi-colon, exclamation/question mark) and no space before punctuation made of a single part (dots, commas.)" It's a very deterministic rule that is easy to apply (whether one agrees to it or not.) [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
::This is a common question from the French and some other nationals. The answer is that English does not work that way. There is no official codified version. The most you have is small pockets of codification within an organization, such as The University of Boulder, or UPI or the US Army. If you're working in or with such an organization you should use their standard. If you try to extend any such standard to the rest of the world you are a nasty egomanical control freak who should be chopped into pieces and fed to the fishes.--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.188|173.245.52.188]] 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

As a german typographer I have to say I’m ''shocked''! ''Two'' spaces per period? A space ''before'' punctuation?! My scientific opinion: you all are completely crazy ;-) (Just kidding, but seriously, two spaces? In Germany, the first possibility to do that safely is your last will …) [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The doubled spaces appear in my browser's tooltips. (Maybe someone should add some non breaking spaces to the quotation of the tooltip text?) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.236|141.101.98.236]] 10:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a(n automatic) two-spacer person (just you watch, I'll use 'em here, despite it obviously not being rendered), it's just what I learnt, back in the '70s, here in the UK. I've no idea ''why'' I learnt it. However, it may stem from the same root as the 'rule' in handwriting (not biros, but nibbed pens dipped in ink... wow, I feel old, but it ''was'' at primary school) that we use a gap as big as our our (very little) little-fingers to separate sentences. I imagine differentiating full-stops (US: periods) from commas in the messy medium of ink might be a valuable visual indicator as to what a given smudge might ''actually'' be. So, anyway, double-spacing. On the other hand I should report that, "I've dropped the habit it of appropriate punctuation prior to quotes," I say, "despite being the way I learnt it." And instead I will drop "<- Commas from that sort of position," you see, "even through I'll keep the ones that are semantic pauses." You see how my standards are slipping? Anyway, good comic. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programme.  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

:I'm in the same boat this this bloke. I don't get the typewriter tie in. I seem to recall being taught to use a finger gage correct gap of whitespace to leave between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next. This was in an American small town southern school in the early 1980s. I assume it was for readability. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The "third way" is used for articles on the [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news BBC News] website :-) --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.233|141.101.99.233]] 14:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:Actually, they put each sentence into a paragraph of its own, which is yet different. (In HTML: <code>... .</code> vs. <code>... . </code>) --[[User:Das-g|Das-g]] ([[User talk:Das-g|talk]]) 16:07, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:That's what I came here to say, that the Third Way is common-place on the web today, it is the tabloid style. This headline article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24775846 off the BBC right now only has full-stops (periods in en-US) before paragraph breaks, apart from quotations (ie what the BBC did not write). [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.229|141.101.98.229]] 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:The BBC is not the only web site to do that - and it is '''so''' annoying. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.222.244|108.162.222.244]] 10:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a FOURTH way! I receive a "Weekly Update from Senator Tim Scott" HTML formatted email about once a week (unsurprisingly) which, in lieu of spaces between words, uses a carriage return and a linefeed. This alleviates the question of how many spaces between sentences completely! It also renders as oneverylongword in my email client. Ie: <blockquote>Thankyouforsubscribingtomye-newsletter.</blockquote> [[Special:Contributions/108.162.236.25|108.162.236.25]] 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
: And a fifth: In France, they use one whitespace before and after double punctions (:;?!) but only one whitespace after single punctuation (.,). --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.79.25|141.101.79.25]] 20:15, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the finger space was to help kids create clear separation while developing their proficiency at penmanship.
I think the 2x space is a fall out from the fixed width formatting of typewriters to help assist the reader (or proof reader) with the start and end of a sentence.
Double spacing has almost become OCD for me. I can't help it. Of course I also leave paragraph marks on while I type as well. I wonder if the French would require a space before a double quote, "The author ponders. "

I think we could improve old school cryptography if we just used carriage returns and ignored the 'new' line.
I might be able to accept and adopt the single space rule if I can make my spaces default to twice the point size of every other character in the style.
[[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.186|199.27.128.186]] 19:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
:FOROL DSCHO OLCRY PTOGR APHYT AKEYO URCUE FROME NIGMA DECOD ESAND ARRAN GEEVE RYTHI NGING ROUPS OFFIV EWITH OUT''AN Y''PUNC TUAT IONAN DINAL LCAPS  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.214|141.101.98.214]] 01:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have my word processor set to a a gap equal to one and a half spaces after a sentence ends[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.198|173.245.52.198]] 19:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

New paragraph (TWO line brakes) after every sentence :-) --[[User:Sten|Sten]] ([[User talk:Sten|talk]]) 20:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I love how the explanation uses the third method. Nice touch. [[User:JRDeBo|JRDeBo]] ([[User talk:JRDeBo|talk]]) 23:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's any significance to the sword and the spear? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.144|108.162.208.144]] 23:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, because this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 06:35, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
:A sword has a longer blade, while a spear keeps people further away. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.210|108.162.219.210]] 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the [[http://fireemblemwiki.org/Weapon_triangle Fire Emblem weapon triangle]], the 1-spacers win against the 2-spacers. Then again, I put one space after each sentence. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture of a cat after every full stop !!! {{unsigned ip|173.245.51.221}}

With all the whitespace compression and variable width fonts in modern technology switching back to 2-space is as viable as switching over to localized Programmer Dvorak. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.18|108.162.231.18]] 13:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1269: Privacy Opinions

2014-10-01T05:37:41Z

Orazor:

This comic could be meant to satirize those who trivialize the opinions of privacy advocates. I doubt many reading this comic would assume this is either a fair or exhaustive list of opinions on internet privacy as it is highly unlikely that the reader him/herself would hold any of these opinions. 00:05, 1 October 2013 {{unsigned ip|68.190.213.83}}

Sometimes I think all my burritos are imaginary. [[User:Nathkingcole|Nathkingcole]] ([[User talk:Nathkingcole|talk]]) 11:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)Nat.

This may be pointless, but Kudos to 63.85.81.254's edit. [[User:Saibot84|Saibot84]] ([[User talk:Saibot84|talk]]) 13:13, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
:This may be offensive, but Redeemer's edit was both excellent and necessary. [[Special:Contributions/96.254.46.231|96.254.46.231]] 13:26, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::I wouldn't call it offensive (outside the language); it's simply opinionated. Thanks Saibot84. [[Special:Contributions/63.85.81.254|63.85.81.254]] 13:37, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::Fail on both counts, from me (for Redeemer's contribution), as neither excellent ''nor'' necessary. Only in the light of that does 63.etc's edit (who has just ninjaed me with an edit conflict... hi there!) actually make any sort of sense. But what do I know? I'm just an IP, and you can probably find that I'm not even in the US, from that...
:::Redeemer's meta-analysis of Randall, even if false, was still an exemplary display of critical thinking that I've found to be surprisingly lacking with XKCD fans. If Randall is anything like the person I think he is, he would appreciate such an alternative perspective. Additionally, it was an ''absolutely'' necessary defense against a straw man-like simplification of an all too legitimate concern for privacy rights. I will agree that Redeemer's edit would have been more appropriate here as a Discussion item rather than an edit to the Explanation, but this differing viewpoint should still be heard. [[Special:Contributions/96.254.46.231|96.254.46.231]] 15:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::Can we just have a proper explanation, instead, please? Let's say something like: there's those that overthink the situation, those that over-''do'' it, some overestimate the problem, some overestimate ''other'' problems, some enjoy the idea too much and some just enjoy their food more. Eh? Any good for ya? I'm sure it can be tweaked, to taste. [[Special:Contributions/31.109.31.130|31.109.31.130]] 13:41, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Done. Or at least a start. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 14:04, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I have an opinion, but I'm keeping it private for now. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 13:24, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

One mention of the NSA, one mention of Google. I'm not sure how Randall's politics are relevant, or how he's excusing privacy concerns, and the "explanation" says a lot about the interpretation and US-centric perspective of the poster without adding to the comic. Unless it was a deliberate parody of the conspiracy panel, not appropriate, dude. (And I'm a Brit - I definitely didn't vote for any political party in the states. But hello, Echelon.) [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 13:37, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::The comment was so off the wall I think it pretty much had to be parody, in keeping with panel 3. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 14:04, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

I wonder why '''some''' Americans consider that '''world-wide''' issues like on-line privacy have to be related '''only''' to U.S. politicians.{{unsigned ip|88.9.73.162}}

I'm pretty sure the explanation of the Nihilist isn't right. In my opinion Randall jokes that if all of your actions are meaningless (the nihilistic way of thought) then the same applies to all your data. [[Special:Contributions/188.174.192.237|188.174.192.237]] 14:51, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to whoever classed this place up by deleting that vitriol.{{unsigned ip|50.148.241.3}}

I'm a fan, but I'm disappointed. Don't tell me I didn't "get it" though. I "got it" very well. I love XKCD very much, but not today. I would like to thank Saibot84 and 96.254.46.231 for their heartwarming support. A Reddit post about the edit can be found here: [http://www.reddit.com/r/restorethefourth/comments/1n3rz0/my_protest_against_xkcds_underhanded_defense_of/ My protest against XKCD's underhanded defense of the NSA] -- Yours truly, Redeemer [[Special:Contributions/31.172.30.1|31.172.30.1]] 16:37, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::I'm genuinely concerned about internet security issues, and I'm entirely sympathetic to your perspective, Redeemer. But, whatever Randall's background or motivation, this comic stands alone in poking fun at extreme positions on the subject. I don't believe it either trivialises the argument or makes a reasoned statement about an acceptable position - none of the panels show a "normal" perspective. Whether or not Randall intended it to be, there are many more sources of privacy concerns world-wide than the NSA, and many reasons to hold an opinion on NSA network analysis other than support for a political party (which to me rarely means support for every position that they hold). Let's stick to explaining the comic, not meta-analyzing Randall's motivations for posting it. This is not the place, no matter how your perspective may colour your interpretation of the message behind the comic. [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]])
:::TL;DR, but the current NSA incidents are a source for Randall's ideas here. It should be mentioned. Incomplete done tag by me.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:52, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::::Too impatient, can't be qualified to comment. Randall mentions the NSA in one panel. The issue isn't whether the NSA is a concern, it's that the NSA is not the only source of internet privacy concerns or media scares; if not mentioning it "excuses" the NSA/current US Government, singling it out "excuses" other organizations (other governments and surveillance bodies, Google, Facebook, network operators...) - and Randall himself mentions Google. Don't assume this is just about the NSA. Even if that was Randall's inspiration, it's not the only context for the comic. There have been repeated incidents regarding GCHQ, for example.[[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]])

::::You must have some very strict guidelines for TL;DR. It's just a paragraph! [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:37, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

::I also can claim "web scraping, network administration and security <nowiki>[as]</nowiki> my professional area of expertise" (only currently on personal time, hence this pseudo-anonymous IP, which I know wouldn't fool the NSA), but I think you just don't get it, Redeemer. Nor do some of your Reddit contributors. Not wanting to reddit (by a name I'd jump into there with, that is), I won't even attempt to disabuse you of your opinion, however. But you ''do not'' vandalise key areas of wikis with such personal venom. Bad show for doing so, and stick to your blogs. Anyway, for myself: Hamlet, Act 5, Scene 2, line 358, second half. [[Special:Contributions/31.109.31.130|31.109.31.130]] 23:07, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
:::"These foils have all a length"?[[Special:Contributions/150.135.210.50|150.135.210.50]] 23:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
::::"The rest is silence." according to Shakespeare-navigators.com. Much as I'd love to be educated enough to know that by heart.[[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]])

Is it just me, or is it actually Danish instead of Megan in the Nihilist panel? The hair looks too long to be Megan's. [[User:Sciepsilon|Sciepsilon]] ([[User talk:Sciepsilon|talk]]) 00:09, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I have to disagree with "''Since a large percentage of people and companies present in the internet don't have the ability or intention to do strong cryptography''". Strong encryption is extremely available to 100% of people and companies. It is public and free to use. Most significant companies use VPN's and encrypted hard drives. It is just untrue to suggest that strong cryptography is not available to anyone. [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 06:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:That is the difference between availability and ability. While the necessary software is freely available, people don't understand how to use it (no ability), even don't want to learn how to use it (no intention).
:Also in "strong cryptography" I would require not only algorithms to be strong but also authentication schemes. The current SSL system uses Certificate Authorities, which are broken by design, thus not "strong" in the sense I was meaning it.
:While good companies using VPNs and encrypted hard drives is a good ideal, 90% of the companies do without them to save the money involved (performant hardware + setting up). Additionally they do not use encryption when communicating with others (e.g. their customers). Think of all the websites that cannot be accessed with HTTPS (including this one). -- [[User:Xorg|Xorg]] ([[User talk:Xorg|talk]]) 10:14, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::Strong encryption in form of VPN is available to everyone and I believe lot of companies are using it. Also HTTPS is used relatively often, although many sites lack it, only use it for most important areas or only for administration for performance reasons. Thats all. Most importantly, no way of encrypting email is simple enough to be actually used by public, and I seriously doubt that majority of instant messaging is point-to-point encrypted (I know for sure Skype chat aren't - they may be encrypted on wire but keys are available to their servers).
::Note that while centralised solution of Certificate Authorities is less secure that decentralized ones, you can still get usable security in SSL ... unless you need it for HTTPS. The fact that NO HTTPS page is signed by multiple authorities is the real problem. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:56, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

At the present moment, what exactly is incomplete in this explanation? When Dgbrt added the incomplete tag, it was because "it should be mentioned that the NSA incidents are a source for Randall's ideas here", however the very first line of the explanation reads "Randall parodies some of the reactions to Edward Snowden's revelations of widespread intrusive surveillance by the U.S. National Security Agency" which pretty much covers it. Furthermore, that line was already in place when the incomplete tag was added. Am I missing something? [[Special:Contributions/88.9.73.162|88.9.73.162]] 19:59, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:Wait, what? That'll teach me to read the comments page rather than checking changes to the explanation. Randall's comic is about reactions to *all* internet privacy concerns. It explicitly mentions Google. Why is everybody assuming that the NSA is the only source of issues here? Sure, there have been recent revelations about the NSA. And GCHQ (indeed, by Snowden). And Google. And Facebook. And every country introducing mandatory network filters. And my employers (and anyone else's with a firewall data sniffer). And quite probably a lot more I don't know about. Can we please stop putting words in Randall's mouth and having a blinkered focus on the NSA as though it's the only source of problems when the comic itself mentions more concerns than that. I didn't think it was my place to remove the incomplete tag, but I now support the assertion that it's inaccurate, rather than incomplete. (Sorry; I was annoyed enough to register here in order to try to balance this bias! Perhaps someone with more seniority can paraphrase?) [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 21:52, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
::NSA is not only source of issues, but it's definitely the most currently debated one. Even mentioned companies are currently debated in context of their collaboration with NSA. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:56, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
:::The NSA scandal is not the most topical example. Ed Snowden's leaks about the NSA and GCHQ (including GCHQ spying on G20 Summit attendees) happened primarily in May, four months ago. The UK government has been proposing opt-out traffic inspection for porn filtering since July; one of the Australian political parties has made a similar proposal this month. The current Miss Teen USA was the subject of a recent privacy scandal, though webcam related rather than about data inspection. A media watchdog report about Google's expectation of privacy in gmail hit the news in August. Facebook drew criticism for security issues in August, and the inability to manage sex hate issues at the end of May. The NSA relationship with Google, Facebook et al. as part of PRISM is certainly an issue, but not the only, and arguably not greatest, source of concern for many about those companies and other organizations. The Snowden case is, in many places, old news, and - while it may have been reported solely in the context of the NSA in the US, it certainly hasn't been in the UK (other than regarding the issues of his asylum). Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to call out the NSA, and it's not like I avoid Google et al. I just believe that it's blinkered to attribute the comic solely either to the Snowden case in general or to the NSA in particular. I'd be happy with "Randall parodies some extreme reactions to internet security concerns, such as those raised by Edward Snowden's revelations about widespread intrusive surveillance by the NSA and other agencies." Is that reasonable? [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 18:57, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
::::O.o I'm not sure I entirely agree with the analysis about what Randall wants us to believe (I'm called a "nut" about a number of things without taking offence at any of them, for example), but I'll admit that the current version removes my objection that the explanation was overly-biased in exclusively referring to the NSA. So thank you, Davidy22 (edit war aside), and I'll pick my battles. [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 13:19, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
::::I didn't write that analysis, I just stepped in when another user was autoreverting it for being "too long." It is a pretty good bit of text though. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 14:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
:::::Whoops. Thank you *and* 173.72.122.24. [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 18:44, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I can't be the only xkcd reader that's driven crazy by the fact that "data" is used as a singular throughout this, can I? I mean, data isn't imaginary, data '''are''' imaginary!! {{unsigned ip|150.212.131.213}}
:Oh dear. I'll go and get my pedantry circuits checked - I should have noticed that. See how discussing politics and current(ish) affairs contributes to my mental decay? [[User:Fluppeteer|Fluppeteer]] ([[User talk:Fluppeteer|talk]]) 18:44, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

:Unless you talk about {{w|Data_%28Star_Trek%29|Lieutenant Commander Data}}, and I think he would be offended if you call him imaginary. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:55, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Can someone photoshop this: ⋈ onto the conspiracist's neck? thanks, [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.120|199.27.128.120]] 04:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1268: Alternate Universe

2014-09-30T13:48:37Z

Orazor:

This reminds me of that conspiracy theorist thing where a bunch of people thought that New Zealand was, like, to the west or north of Australia (I can't quite remember), only to check on a map and see it was definitely to the east... And as such convinced themselves that they somehow travelled to an alternate version of Earth were everything was basically the same except NZ was in a new place. Anyone else remember/know about those guys?
EDIT: Found one of 'em, so hopefully I sound less crazy (than them): [http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread543455/pg1 NZ conspiracy nut in action]
[[Special:Contributions/67.71.33.122|67.71.33.122]] 01:29, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I thought Earth Prime was a reference to Sliders... but Wikipedia says it's been used much more widely. [[User:Saibot84|Saibot84]] ([[User talk:Saibot84|talk]]) 04:40, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Wait, wait ... only "some of you" change your clocks? In the universe I just came from, MOST of them changed their clocks at unsynchronized times for no good reason anyone has ever been able to demonstrate. Only the Third World along with Hawaii and Saskatchewan were holdouts where I came from.{{unsigned ip|72.68.9.56}}

Neither India nor China are having this obscure idea of occasionally changing their clocks for no obvious reasons. So even "most" might be a bit of a stretch. [[User:Pmakholm|Pmakholm]] ([[User talk:Pmakholm|talk]])

:Sure they do -- they're just more occasional about it than others! China last did it in '91, and India in '45.{{unsigned ip|72.68.9.56}}

:Neither does Indonesia. Apparently, according to [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DaylightSaving-World-Subdivisions.png this map], neither does a good deal of the world (particularly those near equator) as well. [[User:Goldstein-Izayoi|Goldstein-Izayoi]] ([[User talk:Goldstein-Izayoi|talk]]) 13:57, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Iceland (definitely NOT Third World) does not changes its clocks. It remains on GMT throughout the year, despite being way west of the Greenwich Meridian [[Special:Contributions/95.131.110.106|95.131.110.106]] 09:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:In my universe, Iceland was a small, inbred fishing community -- prone to collapsing the world's economies with banking phishing scams {{unsigned ip|72.68.9.56}}

Yeah I think it's a Sliders reference. Randall says he was transported in the late 1990s and Sliders aired from 1995-2000. [[Special:Contributions/184.56.86.168|184.56.86.168]] 06:02, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

:Didn't we already had discussion about Earth Prime on [[1184:_Circumference_Formula]]? Hmmm ... should we prepare category for comics mentioning Earth Prime? :-) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

They eat spiders in some parts of this world, e.g. Cambodia. [[User:Geevade|Geevade]] ([[User talk:Geevade|talk]]) 06:54, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Reminds me a little bit of this Married to the Sea strip: http://www.marriedtothesea.com/index.php?date=111008 [[Special:Contributions/213.86.4.78|213.86.4.78]] 10:38, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Reminds me of this bit from [http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/27/1680102/the-lobster-rebellion.html a Dave Barry column]: "I personally see no significant difference between a lobster and, say, a giant Madagascar hissing cockroach, which is a type of cockroach that grows to approximately the size of William Howard Taft (1857-1930). If a group of diners were sitting in a nice restaurant, and the waiter were to bring them each a freshly killed, steaming-hot Madagascar hissing cockroach, they would not put on silly bibs and eat it with butter. No, they would run, retching, directly from the restaurant to the All-Nite Drive-Thru Lawsuit Center." [[User:SteveMB|SteveMB]] ([[User talk:SteveMB|talk]]) 10:46, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Has this guy never heard of Bear Grylls? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WVcSufp3Fw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJRpXYs1pQA (Just occasionally!) [[Special:Contributions/121.74.169.237|121.74.169.237]] 11:01, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I wonder how amount of meat compares, and meat-to-shell ration, and taste of meat. BTW Wikipedia says that {{w|Spider#Benefits_to_humans|''Cooked tarantula spiders are considered a delicacy in Cambodia''}}. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 11:56, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think spiders to lobsters is a good comparison. Spiders are carnivores, while lobsters are carrion eaters. Personally, I would never want to eat a carrion eater. (Of course, I would never want to eat a spider either, but that's different...) --[[User:Divad27182|Divad27182]] ([[User talk:Divad27182|talk]]) 13:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I always compared Lobster to cockroaches. But, maybe calling them "The cockroaches of the sea" was just me. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:22, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

So, this alternate universe has a restaurant chain called "Red Spider"? [[User:SteveMB|SteveMB]] ([[User talk:SteveMB|talk]]) 21:28, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

: Brilliant. [[Special:Contributions/192.249.1.163|192.249.1.163]] 02:45, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
:eek! http://xkcd.com/8/ [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 13:48, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

On this one episode of Game Grumps on of the guys on that show mentioned some comedian or something making a comment along the lines of "Realizing you really are getting old is like seeing a teenager eat a spider like it's nothing. You can't explain to him why it's wrong, you just know it is, but his generation doesn't get why it isn't okay." That was the first thing I thought of when I saw read this, does anyone know who said this? [[Special:Contributions/74.110.143.25|74.110.143.25]] 21:42, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

I read: "where people occasionally ARE spiders"!
...and though Megan was about to kiss her spider boyfriend. [[Special:Contributions/205.151.118.100|205.151.118.100]] 00:41, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Can someone explain why occasionally eating spiders is weird? The universe that I come from has people eating on average 8 spiders a year while sleeping, though I can't seem to find a source of that information on this universe's Internet. Spiders being not okay to eat occasionally and the Internet failing me must surely be signs I'm in a parallel universe. --[[Special:Contributions/68.97.21.122|68.97.21.122]] 03:32, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

:Somewhere I saw that the 8 spiders a year is probably low estimate :-). (Other sites insists its urban legend, but seriously, how would you prove this?) But no matter what you think about spiders opinion on mouth as possible home, I would say it only counts when you eat spider deliberately. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:28, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

::CP Grey tackles the spider myth in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCzXZfNIu3A {{unsigned|Rael}}

The 8 spiders a year is false. Here's a link: http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/spiders.asp
:Note that this only proves that the statistics is urban legend and doesn't say anything about how high the actual consumption is. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Indeed "8 spiders" is probably a very low estimate of annual consumption. In the universe where I originally came from, insect parts (and presumably spiders) provide a nutritional boost to many industrially-processed foods. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels [[Special:Contributions/108.160.230.100|108.160.230.100]] 17:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

HaHaHa i'm from Israel and this comic is about us! according to jewish diatery rules, spiders and lobsters are both forbidden (only one Arthropod is allowd - Locust). We also had a mix-up with our clock because we changed the date without telling Apple and Google, so the smartphones had to be switched manually. {{unsigned ip|84.229.22.212}}

(CTU) 3102 rebmevoN 1 ,92:30 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.117|711.642.261.801]] ?sdrawkcab gnitirw lla uoy era yhW {{unsigned ip|108.162.246.117}}

Talk:1255: Columbus

2014-09-30T10:11:09Z

Orazor:

Megan's version of the story is one big reference to the {{w|Silmarillion}}, in case you're wondering. [[Special:Contributions/100.40.49.22|100.40.49.22]] 06:00, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I fail to see how the fact scholars and other educated people knew the Earth is round means he couldn't have difficulty getting sponsorship because of that. He wasn't asking scholars for sponsorship, did he? :-) Actually, according to {{w|Christopher_Columbus#Quest_for_support|wikipedia}}, "Columbus presented his plans to Queen Isabella, who, in turn, referred it to a '''committee'''" ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:14, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Because it wasn't just scholars - ''everyone'' knew that the world was a sphere. Sailors, for example, took the monumental task of noticing that when objects appeared in the distance, they seemed to "rise up" over the horizon (hence the phrase). For that to happen, the sea (and by extension the rest of the world) had to be curved.
[[Special:Contributions/109.76.209.186|109.76.209.186]] 12:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

: Farmers were famous for believing the world was flat, but it might as well just be city prejudice or jokes on farmers behalf. They would anyway be in the worst position to know any better. [[Special:Contributions/62.220.2.194|62.220.2.194]] 12:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

:: I was trying to make a joke. According to wikipedia again, it is recorded that the committee denied the request because of distance to Asia, therefore shown much more intelligence that committees tend to have on average. Still, he asked for sponsorship multiple people, which might include some who believed earth is flat. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the moon and at the earth's shadow during a lunar eclipse would probably make many realize the earth is round. [[User:Ghaller825|Ghaller825]] ([[User talk:Ghaller825|talk]]) 12:45, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
:Unless "round" as in "circular", rather than "spherical". A disc-like Earth could give the same effect. A ''non-tidally-locked moon'' would have been an interesting thing for early understanding of the universe, as it would have shown a clearly spherical ball rotating and let the layperson imagine sphericality under their own feet a lot easier in their own childhood, thus flat-earthing would have been culturally invalid, not just lazy/unthinking. Whether or not farmers 'knew'/cared/were-told-by-the-church that the world was flat isn't really relevent on the scale of farming where you need to worry more about localised hills on your land than global curvature on its actual order of magnitude. Of course, in the absence of any other clues you tend to think of everything as flat as your (crudely worked) kitchen tabletop by default. [[Special:Contributions/178.104.103.140|178.104.103.140]] 16:16, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure what people knew and what they believed in earlier times. For example: {{w|M-Theory}} says that the space we live in has 11 dimensions. Assuming this is correct, what will people in 500 years say about us? Did we know it or did we not? Could we have expected what will hit us in a couple of years from out of one of the dimensions that we do not visually perceive?
To apply this to the quesion of whether they knew that the world was round: There is a {{w|Deep-sea_exploration#Milestones_of_deep_sea_exploration|story}} about Magellan (who certainly believed that the world was round because he tried to sail around it): He tried to measure the depth of the ocean with a 700m long rope. When the rope failed to reach the bottom, he concluded that the ocean was infinitely deep. Now how can a round object with a finite perimeter have and infinite radius? (I realize that wikipedia does not give any sources for the story and its origin is somewhat obscure, someone translated the story from the German wikipedia in July 2011; in the German wikipedia it had first appeared in 2006, but the story was around on German language websites since at least [http://www.scinexx.de/dossier-detail-40-11.html 2000]; I have no idea where it originally comes from, but it would be interesting to have a look at Magellan's ship's log if it had such a thing.)
[[User:Y4cy|Y4cy]] ([[User talk:Y4cy|talk]]) 13:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

:You suppose that the round earth is imbedded in flat 3-dimensional space. If it were’nt, you could easily have infinitely deep oceans. Maybe Magellan was way ahead of his time by thinking in non-Euclidean categories.
:(Explanation for non-mathematicians: Draw a circle – it surely has a finite radius, but if you measure the depth perpendicular to the sheet of paper, you could go infinitely deep. Now apply this to a round sphere and measure perpendicular to the 3D space you put it in.)
:--[[Special:Contributions/188.102.28.80|188.102.28.80]] 09:41, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

::Your example fails. Magellan sailed in ship with keel pointing in the direction of the depth he tried to measure. His success depended on the fact that earth is round IN THAT DIMENSION. Sure, there are geometries where the earth can be round in that dimension AND ocean would still be infinite, but, as you correctly mentioned, they would be non-euclidean, while your example with sheet of paper is (almost) euclidean. Also, dimension which would make possible to measure infinite distances is {{w|Brane cosmology}} - {{w|M-Theory}} would work perfectly well even in case all of those "extra" dimensions would be extremely small. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

:[http://www.wdl.org/en/item/3082/ Journal of Magellan's Voyage] is an original source (in French) accessible online of this voyage, which could contain this story. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/178.26.118.249|178.26.118.249]] 19:36, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

[http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arda.html Arda] was not [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/bentworld.html bent] until the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/d/downfallofnumenor.html Downfall of Númenor] in [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/chronicle.html?startyear=3319&startage=2 S.A. 3319]. When [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/earendil.html Eärendil] sailed into [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/west.html the West] in [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/chronicle.html?startyear=538&startage=1 F.A. 538] he did so on a topologically flat earth. It was the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/i/istari.html Istari], the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/greyelves.html Sindarin] belatedly answering the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/greatjourney.html summons of the Valar], [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/g/galadriel.html Galadriel] of the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/n/noldor.html Noldorin], [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/elrond.html Elrond] [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/h/halfelven.html half-Elven], and the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/r/ringbearers.html ring-bearers] of the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/t/thirdage.html third age] who took the [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/s/straightroad.html straight road] to [http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/v/valinor.html Valinor]. --[[User:April_Arcus|April Arcus]] 01:44, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
* Nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd. :) --[[User:V2Blast|V2Blast]] ([[User talk:V2Blast|talk]]) 07:34, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
: Oh yah, 'cos the rest of the comments/conversation on this page are just soooo hip :P [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

How is the title text related to the title text in 1256? Does Arwen visit the Undying Lands? [[User:Jd2718|Jd2718]] ([[User talk:Jd2718|talk]]) 12:06, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure Valar are immune to disease... [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.150|199.27.128.150]] 22:26, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
:And ''I'm'' pretty sure valar morghulis... wait, what? [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:11, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1248: Sphere

2014-09-30T05:52:27Z

Orazor:

More specifically,a geoid.--[[User:Guru-45|Guru-45]] ([[User talk:Guru-45|talk]]) 08:51, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:Astronomers observe objects in the sky, not the Earth.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::Astronomers live on the surface of the Earth, not on the surface of the sky (celestial sphere). [[Special:Contributions/167.107.191.217|167.107.191.217]] 13:25, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:::Beret Guy might disagree... http://www.xkcd.com/1115/ [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:52, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure “Sphere” refers to “hemisphere” and not simply to earth? After all, she’s trapped on earth and not on the celestial sphere. [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 11:24, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:It's the hemisphere, see my comment above.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:: I'm assuming you're referring to the "light-sphere" whose origin lies at the astronomer's location, and thus the universe always being bigger than the places he can physically visit. Still though, the statement "They can't travel to the places they observe" isn't accurate. We've been to the moon for instance. And then of course, there are always the unknown unknowns of the universe and interstellar travel. [[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 12:19, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::: The fact that we, the human race, have been to the moon is no comfort to anyone who's seen the wonders revealed by the HST (which isn't even suitable for inspecting the moon). We are, indeed, "trapped" here on Earth, into the foreseeable future. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC)''
: I read it as earth. It's a sphere and we're all trapped on its surface and astronomy classes make you aware of this fact more than your everyday experiences. Also, doesn't "hemisphere" mean "half sphere"? like northern and southern hemisphere of the earth? [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 12:48, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Do we maybe have a reference to [[1246]]? [[Special:Contributions/217.81.31.20|217.81.31.20]] 11:37, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:That comic belongs more to space science than to astronomers.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:46, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure the sphere is Earth. We don't live on the '''surface''' of the universe. Everybody in http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=104172 agrees. [[Special:Contributions/167.107.191.217|167.107.191.217]] 13:12, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

"This totally occupies her mind, and she feels frustrated that she can only learn about those mind-boggling places, and not visit them herself." Wow. She must have been in a class? She's "totally" occupied? She's frustrated? (Not wistful, or resigned, or just aware of a fact mind you.) She isn't just thinking about the size of space, but apparently really, really wants to actually travel there. (To where, exactly? What "mind boggling" places? "Space"? Seems rather general.) You got all that deep and specific feeling from just her using the word "trapped"? Looks like reading a lot into things, to me. [[User:CFoxx|CFoxx]] ([[User talk:CFoxx|talk]]) 15:53, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:I try to not to make the explanations too dry; they are and should often be interpretations to some extent. On the other hand yeah, you are probably right that I read too much emotion into it. I changed the things you commented on. –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 18:29, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::"I try to not to make the explanations too dry" And your efforts are very much appreciated. Hat tip! [[User:CFoxx|CFoxx]] ([[User talk:CFoxx|talk]]) 15:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
:@CFoxx - Absolutely. In XKCD, there are no shades of grey. (really, look for yourself) [[User:JamesCurran|JamesCurran]] ([[User talk:JamesCurran|talk]]) 19:43, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::Heh. :) [[User:CFoxx|CFoxx]] ([[User talk:CFoxx|talk]]) 15:50, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey, what the hell are you doing? "The sphere she mentions..." is absolutely wrong, the word ''Sphere'' appears only at the title and the title text! Megan is just impressed by the vast size of the universe.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:21, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:And to all you ''Earth'' theorists, tell me why Randall mentions astronomers and NOT the entire mankind? And that, after Megan talks about a big universe. Astronomers do not observe the Earth but objects in that big universe, which is from a viewpoint on Earth just a sphere.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:21, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::One more: Astronomers are not trapped to the surface of the Earth because they use many space telescopes even beyond of earth's orbit. They are also using probes at many planets and more all over the solar system.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:02, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:::Would you please look at the first panel … And just using space telescopes doesn’t mean you’re no longer trapped. Imagine yourself being trapped in a cage with a satellite dish to communicate with a space telescope (well … just imagine that). You’re not going anywhere by using that telescope. I think you confuse “being trapped” with “being limited”. Being trapped somewhere doesn’t mean your observation is limited to that place too. [[User:Quoti|Quoti]] ([[User talk:Quoti|talk]]) 17:54, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::::Ok, I did ignore the first panel, sorry about that. But the Earth is a {{w|geoid}} and absolutely doesn't match the criteria for a {{w|sphere}}. So, like in democracy the mass does win, but I'm still sure I'm right.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:13, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:She does mention a sphere, so I changed it back. No hard feelings (I hope). –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 18:29, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
::I don't mind, but it seems I'm the only astronomer and physicist here.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:13, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

After some more thoughts on this, why nobody (even myself) did raise the idea that Randall talks about both interpretations? Nevertheless, if the sphere is interpreted as the surface of the Earth there is a need to explain the geoid discrepancy to an ideal sphere, as mentioned in the very first post here.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:51, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
:I fixed a sentence on the discrepancy (with some Wikipedia help). Interesting stuff! I think that Megan answers Cueballs question quite literary. How are you? Trapped on a 2-dimensional surface. The 'celestial sphere'-thing seems too far fetched... –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 10:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

This "a sphere is a surface and has no surface" is too much nitpicking. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere) talks about calculating the surface area of a sphere. I think "surface of sth" is not very rigorously defined. Often two dimensional manifolds are called surfaces, and a sphere is one, and the surface (different meaning) of the earth is roughly a sphere. What a sphere doesn't have is a border. [[User:Peter|Peter]] ([[User talk:Peter|talk]]) 11:54, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
:You are right that the Wikipedia article is not consistent with its terminology. However, the {{w|Ball (mathematics)|Wp-article on 'ball'}} mentions that "in informal use, sphere sometimes means ball". Maybe thats where the source of the confusion lies? If she by 'a sphere' means 'the surface of the Earth', then she is saying that she is 'trapped on the surface of the surface of the earth', which seems strange. If she means the entire Earth, however correct, her sentence at least makes sense. –[[User:St.nerol|St.nerol]] ([[User talk:St.nerol|talk]]) 23:37, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The is trapped on the surface of this sphere, since you can walk on it forever, without ever leaving it[[User:Oscar|Oscar]] ([[User talk:Oscar|talk]]) 12:20, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

The sphere could be referring to a black hole. There is a theory out there that says information that falls into a black hole does not get lost as it is on the surface of the black hole. That's how I read it anyway. -(coconutty){{unsigned|Coconutty}}

For the Incomplete tag: I have explained the title text, but nowhere in the comic does the firmament come into play. All that is is a fictional sphere representing the sky the ancients and medievals used to make sense of their world. Anonymous 19:48, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
:I'm giving up, but THE SPHERE is still the firmament and NOT the Earth to astronomers! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:52, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The sphere in the first panel is the Earth. Megan is probably not talking to an astronomer, so she won't stick to the most correct definition to avoid further complicating the dialog. She will choose what is most easily understandable by the masses. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.43|141.101.98.43]] 04:45, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1242: Scary Names

2014-09-29T10:50:53Z

Orazor:

;Zero Halliburton
What is "A Zero Halliburton briefcase"? [[Special:Contributions/212.232.24.57|212.232.24.57]] 13:24, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

:Zero Halliburton is a luggage brand name, with a line of aluminum attache cases. Not connected to the big company Halliburton, associated with former US Vice President Cheney and the war in Iraq. [[User:Wrybred|Wrybred]] ([[User talk:Wrybred|talk]]) 13:57, 24 July 2013 (UTC)wrybred

::The history of Zero Halliburton luggage does intersect with the founder of Halliburton Company, Erle P. Halliburton. He needed rugged cases, so he started a company to produce them. He sold it to Zero Corporation. [http://www.zerohalliburton.com/about-our-company.html]. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 14:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)''

::Also of note, Halliburton isn't just "known for" its association with Cheney and the war in Iraq. It's an oil and gas services (i.e. drilling and well managment, inter alia) company. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:50, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

;Military Aide/Secret Service Agent
Isn't the nuclear football carried by a military aide, not a Secret Service agent? [[Special:Contributions/167.165.238.254|167.165.238.254]] 14:18, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

:Probably. I don't really know what I'm talking about. If you think you can improve on what I wrote, go for it! [[User:RouterIncident|RouterIncident]] ([[User talk:RouterIncident|talk]]) 14:24, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

::Yes. "Cheney noted that the president is accompanied at all times by a military aide carrying a 'football' that contains launch codes for nuclear weapons. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/21/AR2008122100869.html] ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 14:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)''

:::I assume it's called 'football' because in the USA footballs are usually carried by hand. --[[User:Chtz|Chtz]] ([[User talk:Chtz|talk]]) 15:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

::::Early plans for nuclear war against the Soviets were codenamed "Dropkick". [[Special:Contributions/193.67.17.36|193.67.17.36]] 16:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

;Helvetica Scenario
I think the "Helvetica Scenario" explanation is wrong, but I don't know enough about it to feel comfortable editing. Here's an article I found that makes more sense. http://enigmauniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Helvetica_Scenario (I didn't watch the Youtube clip since I'm at work, so maybe that's what the clip refers to. It should be explained in the article instead.) [[User:Trek7553|Trek7553]] ([[User talk:Trek7553|talk]]) 14:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

:To the best of my knowledge, the page you linked to is a work of fiction on a role-playing wiki. The references to calcium imply that it is based off of the Look Around You segment, but with its own added elements for the sake of role-playing. [[User:RouterIncident|RouterIncident]] ([[User talk:RouterIncident|talk]]) 14:53, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

::I changed this section. The video is correct, but the horror scene is just showing a possible result of the Helvetica experiment.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:19, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

:::That sounds much better now. [[User:RouterIncident|RouterIncident]] ([[User talk:RouterIncident|talk]]) 18:06, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

:::: I know what you mean but I like the statement "...the page you linked to is a work of fiction..." - the Helvetica Scenario is a work of fiction! But yes, that is a derivative work, the original source being Look Around You.

:::: Having just looked at the edits, Dgbrt is getting seriously confused. The Helvetica Scenario is not real, and is completely made up by the TV program Look Around You. Urban dictionary is entirely based on the original invention by L.A.Y. It is not a real thing!

;Arbitrary Scariness Formatting
I have a slight issue with the artificial percentage scale given for entries in the chart. First of all it assumes a linear chart that is measured in percentages. Secondly, it assumes Flesh-eating Bacteria is 100% scariest thing and scariest-sounding thing existant. Just because it's the highest on the chart doesn't make it "100%" (again, percentage seems like an arbitrary scale to assign) [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

:I disagree on your second point. The explanation expresses the scariness of something as a percentage of Flesh-eating Bacteria BECAUSE it is an arbitrary scale. It doesn't imply that the bacteria is the scariest possible thing. I think this is the best way; it's better than saying "Grey goo isn't as scary sounding, but is scarier than..." for all possible combinations of every item. Also on your first point, it doesn't assume the chart is measured in percentages (although it does assume linearity). [[Special:Contributions/174.88.154.131|174.88.154.131]] 12:30, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

::How about we just give the pixel coordinates and point out that the scale is arbitrary (or not defined by the comic). Percentage would suggest that the scale is in some way linear, which you actually cannot conclude from the graph. --[[User:Chtz|Chtz]] ([[User talk:Chtz|talk]]) 13:08, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

::Initially I had written out "Not very scary", "Somewhat scary", "Fairly scary", etc. but it seemed simpler and much easier to read and sort to simply use arbitrary percentages. [[User:RouterIncident|RouterIncident]] ([[User talk:RouterIncident|talk]]) 14:55, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
:As there are no values or units listed, Randall's dots are fairly arbitrary, probably plotted relative to each other and to a roughly-equal apparent-to-actual-scariness line. So isn't it a little silly to argue about the listing of an arbitrary scale for these arbitrary values? [[Special:Contributions/138.162.8.57|138.162.8.57]] 15:57, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

::In my opinion the percentages are over interpreting the comic. But since it is here it should be explained as position on the graph relative to zero.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:19, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

:::The percentages are perfectly fine. They just need to be interpreted as what they are: percentages of scary, relative to flesh eating bacteria. Flesh eating bacteria = 1 unit of scary. In this situation 110% isn't just a metaphor. If the bacteria was the scariest thing nothing would be off the chart. [[User:Db|db]] ([[User talk:Db|talk]]) 06:11, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Really I think the point of the comic is how superficial perception and reality fail to correlate. That's what is so notable about flesh eating bacteria. It lives up to it's name. A rare thing indeed. [[User:Db|db]] ([[User talk:Db|talk]]) 06:11, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

What is missing about the transcript? It describes the comic panel perfectly. there is no dialogue to include. could you please be more specific about what you feel is missing from the transcript? @dgbrt [[User:Mrarch|Mrarch]] ([[User talk:Mrarch|talk]]) 00:37, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
:A transcript should not contain a sentence like: "Items within the scatter plot are listed in the table above." --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:02, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
::I think that the transcript should not contain anything except for the text in the comic. They should be used for searching, not for reconstructing comics completely in text form. --[[User:Bob|Bob]] 13:00, 3 April 2014

Talk:1227: The Pace of Modern Life

2014-09-29T06:06:23Z

Orazor:

Is it sad that after reading the first few, I thought "TL; DR" and found myself skim reading most of them since I'm meant to be working right now and not reading xkcd? {{unsigned ip|‎90.152.3.226}}

That's obviously what's intended [[Special:Contributions/155.56.68.216|155.56.68.216]] 09:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this point was possibly intended and added text to the analysis, explicitly pointing it out. [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 16:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

:It was not what was intended. Randall used all those quotes to build a compelling argument. The fact that some people "don't have time" to read them all is simply a supporting case, albeit one that each person will have to come to personally. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 18:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it's sad. According to my 11th Grade Literary Analysis, the propensity to take shortcuts is a fundamental flaw in human nature, but introductory Psychology lauded our use of heuristics. I say you should find meaning in your humanity and ability to set your own priorities and allocate just enough resources to various aspects of your life in order to succeed in life where the objectives are unclear.[[Special:Contributions/98.166.43.28|98.166.43.28]] 12:06, 19 June 2013 (UTC)DBrak

:Did you just... quote yourself? [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The topic made me slow down, read, and understand. Perhaps the point was lost on me, but the expressions from a century ago seem much like those made today. One can't help but wonder if that means they were wrong then and wrong now or if our society was in a century long devolutionary spiral, terminating with Twitter or whatever is coming next. --[[Special:Contributions/108.34.230.242|108.34.230.242]] 10:02, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

:I think you're on the right track, and these are exactly the types of questions that Randall was seeking to raise. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Had this continued to present day the most recent entry would be something like this:
:lol didnt read '''#tldr #boredalready #yawn'''
:::- Most of 'Civilisation', ''Social Media''
::::::::::2013
[[Special:Contributions/77.86.53.65|77.86.53.65]] 12:11, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Just added an explanation. Unfortunately, there's no transcript provided in the source code and I don't have time to type all that out (who does?). Also, I have no idea what to use for categories. Any suggestions? [[User:Smperron|Smperron]] ([[User talk:Smperron|talk]]) 12:36, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:Not a suggestion, but does anyone know if Randall types or writes it out, or copies and pastes? --[[User:Luckymustard|Luckymustard]] ([[User talk:Luckymustard|talk]]) 13:04, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
::Looks like the letterforms are identical -- my guess is a custom font. [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 14:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

If this comic was meant to say that we should give up on these types of arguments, this comic did the opposite effect: I actually AGREE with all of this!

I mean, I tend to write long private messages, while the longest replies I get are also the most satisfying, since they tell me quite a bit of the recipient. Relatedly, I prefer to write long responses to pieces of artwork when I comment on art sites, telling people exactly why I like the art... what shines... what needs to be polished. (Of course, I am going to need to find a way to simply stay at a work and truly take in what is presented.) In fact, letter restrictions sometimes restrict me too much. I DO need to be more social, not having any reading material at hand (whether the material be a newspaper or a video game). I dislike people PUSHING me to look around myself; this is something I do automatically. In fact, while I like staying inside and exploring the wonders of the Internet hours on end, I also like going outside alone and looking around myself, seeing the wonders that other people ignore (probably because other people are too busy talking to yet other people). There really is a mental degeneration (You can see this for yourself in the comments other people leave in websites.) and addiction to stimulants. In fact, stress (and DIStress) is one of the main reasons why we have cancer far more often that the non-developed parts of the world, since stress compromises the body severely. Play, while easily abused, is never the less a necessary part of development, even while an adult. I wish I could keep up pace with the world, but I also hope, for the sake of the world and myself, that the world slows down to me. You can see for yourself how newspapers are being scandalous. I myself suffer from eating foods too quickly (yet there is the problem of ants and spoilage if I take TOO long when eating, a sad possibility due to me preferring to eat at the computer.) Rebellion (a problem that even I suffer) does cause people to want their own way, not knowing that they are just being a slave to impulses, their authorities having the experience to liberate them for the things that their subordinates really do want and shall really want. (The rebels do not want others to 'cramp their style,' but they fail to learn basic anatomy and lighting, much less on making a pleasing style!) There is an entropy in displayed morals, yet that is something that requires changing the hearts of people, though we can control this by 'starving' the problematic media (another bit of advice with which even I also struggle, my curiosity provoking me to see things that should not be seen), since they only proliferate if there are people to feed them. People all around us know that marriage feel into disarray. While legally-backed homosexuality (and, soon, polygamy), and, to an extent, abortion (regardless of the reason) have been causing their problems, marriage already fell in disarray when divorce (that is, breaking a lifetime vow), pornography (that is, selling the private bodies of people for your selfish desires), promiscuity, and birth control (that is, using a reproductive function for non-reproductive reasons and otherwise abusing the reproductive function) already led themselves to an array of evils.

Again, people would probably just skip my wall of text here, but I feel that I need to make my old-fashioned (whether for worse or better) opinion heard here. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 15:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

In my honest opinion, your wall of text is a work of art in itself. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and ''I am the next generation. '' Life has been sped up too fast for us, and it is too often that I see my peers on their devices, or trying to do too many things at once. You make many valid points and good observations. ~Alithia [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.5|108.162.241.5]] 14:15, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

--
So, the argument has been going on for a long time. Does this comic imply that (1) we perceive that the pace of life was slower in the old days, but has always been as fast as it is today, or (2) that the pace of life has actually been speeding up for a very long time now? [[Special:Contributions/194.176.105.141|194.176.105.141]] 15:31, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
: I think that the pace of life has been speeding up for a long time now. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

:: Perhaps it's the case indeed that the "pace of life" has been speeding up... but I wonder: to what end? Is this a problem? If so, why? In response to your "wall of text," I'm not sure that there are really so many negative repercussions to society today ''that we can quantify.'' Sure, cancer is more of a problem today than it was 100 yrs ago, but we are also living much, much longer today. So I have trouble imagining that it's due solely to "stressors" in our lives.

::I'm not so sure that Randall was necessarily for or against the "modern life is rubbish" judging by the comic's quotes. However, I do believe he was trying to spur questions and conversations about it. So, to that end it's a pretty important contribution. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 06:06, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Added to the explanation, please correct any grammar, composition, or repetition mistakes, thank you. -- [[Special:Contributions/186.124.46.183|186.124.46.183]] 16:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Did anyone else notices that you can get the gist by only reading the bolded text? It's probably a just me. Anyone want to take the time to compile the bold text only and place it in the explination? [[User:Crsoccerfreak19|Crsoccerfreak19]] ([[User talk:Crsoccerfreak19|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

:I didn't see this before, but I think that work is a great idea. So my next job here is to work on that an checking if this does make sense. Thanks for your hint.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

------

I did an full update to the transcript. I used the existing parts here, many thanks to the contributors, the free web site [http://www.ocronline.com/ OCR Online] (the only one did work, in fact it did work as a hell) and {{w|LibreOffice Writer}} for changing the case to lower case. After that it was just some manual work without typing all that text.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

The meaning I took from this comic was very much [[wikt:plus_%C3%A7a_change,_plus_c'est_la_m%C3%AAme_chose|Plus ca change]]. There are translated Roman messages that say very similar things about the current state of Latin, and I bet even ''that'' was merely an inadvertent echo of prior ages. As one who can be very verbose with (at least ''intended'') correct spelling, grammar and vocabulary, I ''could'' go on at great length about how this works for the current day, but on this occasion shall restrain myself. Yours faithfully  [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Adding 'the sub text':
----
The art of letter-writing is fast dying out. We fire off a multitude of rapid and short notes, instead of sitting down to have a good talk oer a real sheet of paper.

In olden times it was different.

Men now live think and work at express speed. Sulkily read as they travel ... leaving them no time to talk with the friend who may share the compartment with them.

The age of leisure is dead, and the art of conversation is dying.

A craving for literary nips. There never was an age in which so many people were able to write badly.

The art of pure line engraving is dying out. We live at too fast a rate.

Nothing is left to the imagination. And human faculty dwindle away amid the million inventions that have been introduced to render its exercise unnecessary. Thirty pages is now too much. Fifteen pages. Further condensed. A summary of the summary. Those who are dipping into so many subjects and gathering information in a summary and superficial form lose the habit of settling down to great works. Hurried reading can never be good reading.

Mental and nervous degeneration among a growing class of people. Brain incapable of normal working... in a large measure due to the hurry and excitement of modern life. Almost instantaneous communication between remote points of the globe.

Teach the children how to play. Instead of shutting them in badly ventilated schoolrooms.

Increased demand made by the conditions of modern life upon the brain. We talk across a continent, telegraph across an ocean. We take even our pleasures sadly and make a task of our play.

The managers of sensational newspapers. Create perverted tastes and develop vicious tendencies.

To take sufficient time for our meals seems frequently impossible.

May I be permitted to say a word in favour of a very worthy and valuable old friend of mine, Mr. Long Walk? I am afraid that this good gentleman is in danger of getting neglected, if not forgotten.

People talk as they ride bicycles - at a rush - without pausing to consider their surroundings. The profession of letters is so little understood.

There is a tendency among the children of today to rebel against restraint.

Our modern family gathering, silent. Each individual with his head buried in his favourite magazine.

Deal openly with situations which no person would have dared to mention in general society forty years ago. Nude men and women in the daily journals.

Fitness and courtliness too often totally lacking.

A hundred years ago it took sol long and cost so much to send a letter that it seemed worth while to put some time and thought into writing it. A brief letter to-day may be followed by another next week - a "line" now by another to-morrow.
[[unsigned|209.217.94.93]] 21:27, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks [209.217.94.93], I will put in my version here and I am happy if you can correct possible mistakes.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:58, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Can anyone validate these are true quotes? I tried searching for the one in Google Books for Morley: Ancient and Modern and it came up with no results. They're great quotes, but is it possible they're made up?--[[Special:Contributions/119.224.37.9|119.224.37.9]] 07:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

At least one of the quotes is real: "So much is exhibited to the eye that nothing is left to the imagination" http://books.google.com/books?id=nc_UAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA265&ots=AAC4OimA5D&dq=%22So%20much%20is%20exhibited%20to%20the%20eye%20that%20nothing%20is%20left%20to%20the%20imagination%22&pg=PA265#v=onepage&q=%22So%20much%20is%20exhibited%20to%20the%20eye%20that%20nothing%20is%20left%20to%20the%20imagination%22&f=false{{unsigned|216.55.56.42}}

The only point this comic is trying to make is that yes the olden times were different, but they were not as different as we suppose. The people had exactly the same intelligence and capacities as we do today, and apparently shared the same concerns about change, and the detrimental effect it will have on all parts of society. OF course, every generation puts itself in the position of greatest importance, and believes that the present moment is of the highest criticality. Sorry folks - get over yourselves. It isn't true. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 18:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1227: The Pace of Modern Life

2014-09-29T05:58:18Z

Orazor:

Is it sad that after reading the first few, I thought "TL; DR" and found myself skim reading most of them since I'm meant to be working right now and not reading xkcd? {{unsigned ip|‎90.152.3.226}}

That's obviously what's intended [[Special:Contributions/155.56.68.216|155.56.68.216]] 09:53, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that this point was possibly intended and added text to the analysis, explicitly pointing it out. [[User:Jimbob|Jimbob]] ([[User talk:Jimbob|talk]]) 16:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

:It was not what was intended. Randall used all those quotes to build a compelling argument. The fact that some people "don't have time" to read them all is simply a supporting case, albeit one that each person will have to come to personally. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 18:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it's sad. According to my 11th Grade Literary Analysis, the propensity to take shortcuts is a fundamental flaw in human nature, but introductory Psychology lauded our use of heuristics. I say you should find meaning in your humanity and ability to set your own priorities and allocate just enough resources to various aspects of your life in order to succeed in life where the objectives are unclear.[[Special:Contributions/98.166.43.28|98.166.43.28]] 12:06, 19 June 2013 (UTC)DBrak

:Did you just... quote yourself? [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

The topic made me slow down, read, and understand. Perhaps the point was lost on me, but the expressions from a century ago seem much like those made today. One can't help but wonder if that means they were wrong then and wrong now or if our society was in a century long devolutionary spiral, terminating with Twitter or whatever is coming next. --[[Special:Contributions/108.34.230.242|108.34.230.242]] 10:02, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

:I think you're on the right track, and these are exactly the types of questions that Randall was seeking to raise. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Had this continued to present day the most recent entry would be something like this:
:lol didnt read '''#tldr #boredalready #yawn'''
:::- Most of 'Civilisation', ''Social Media''
::::::::::2013
[[Special:Contributions/77.86.53.65|77.86.53.65]] 12:11, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Just added an explanation. Unfortunately, there's no transcript provided in the source code and I don't have time to type all that out (who does?). Also, I have no idea what to use for categories. Any suggestions? [[User:Smperron|Smperron]] ([[User talk:Smperron|talk]]) 12:36, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:Not a suggestion, but does anyone know if Randall types or writes it out, or copies and pastes? --[[User:Luckymustard|Luckymustard]] ([[User talk:Luckymustard|talk]]) 13:04, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
::Looks like the letterforms are identical -- my guess is a custom font. [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 14:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

If this comic was meant to say that we should give up on these types of arguments, this comic did the opposite effect: I actually AGREE with all of this!

I mean, I tend to write long private messages, while the longest replies I get are also the most satisfying, since they tell me quite a bit of the recipient. Relatedly, I prefer to write long responses to pieces of artwork when I comment on art sites, telling people exactly why I like the art... what shines... what needs to be polished. (Of course, I am going to need to find a way to simply stay at a work and truly take in what is presented.) In fact, letter restrictions sometimes restrict me too much. I DO need to be more social, not having any reading material at hand (whether the material be a newspaper or a video game). I dislike people PUSHING me to look around myself; this is something I do automatically. In fact, while I like staying inside and exploring the wonders of the Internet hours on end, I also like going outside alone and looking around myself, seeing the wonders that other people ignore (probably because other people are too busy talking to yet other people). There really is a mental degeneration (You can see this for yourself in the comments other people leave in websites.) and addiction to stimulants. In fact, stress (and DIStress) is one of the main reasons why we have cancer far more often that the non-developed parts of the world, since stress compromises the body severely. Play, while easily abused, is never the less a necessary part of development, even while an adult. I wish I could keep up pace with the world, but I also hope, for the sake of the world and myself, that the world slows down to me. You can see for yourself how newspapers are being scandalous. I myself suffer from eating foods too quickly (yet there is the problem of ants and spoilage if I take TOO long when eating, a sad possibility due to me preferring to eat at the computer.) Rebellion (a problem that even I suffer) does cause people to want their own way, not knowing that they are just being a slave to impulses, their authorities having the experience to liberate them for the things that their subordinates really do want and shall really want. (The rebels do not want others to 'cramp their style,' but they fail to learn basic anatomy and lighting, much less on making a pleasing style!) There is an entropy in displayed morals, yet that is something that requires changing the hearts of people, though we can control this by 'starving' the problematic media (another bit of advice with which even I also struggle, my curiosity provoking me to see things that should not be seen), since they only proliferate if there are people to feed them. People all around us know that marriage feel into disarray. While legally-backed homosexuality (and, soon, polygamy), and, to an extent, abortion (regardless of the reason) have been causing their problems, marriage already fell in disarray when divorce (that is, breaking a lifetime vow), pornography (that is, selling the private bodies of people for your selfish desires), promiscuity, and birth control (that is, using a reproductive function for non-reproductive reasons and otherwise abusing the reproductive function) already led themselves to an array of evils.

Again, people would probably just skip my wall of text here, but I feel that I need to make my old-fashioned (whether for worse or better) opinion heard here. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 15:16, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

In my honest opinion, your wall of text is a work of art in itself. I wholeheartedly agree with you, and ''I am the next generation. '' Life has been sped up too fast for us, and it is too often that I see my peers on their devices, or trying to do too many things at once. You make many valid points and good observations. ~Alithia [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.5|108.162.241.5]] 14:15, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

--
So, the argument has been going on for a long time. Does this comic imply that (1) we perceive that the pace of life was slower in the old days, but has always been as fast as it is today, or (2) that the pace of life has actually been speeding up for a very long time now? [[Special:Contributions/194.176.105.141|194.176.105.141]] 15:31, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
: I think that the pace of life has been speeding up for a long time now. [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 18:59, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Added to the explanation, please correct any grammar, composition, or repetition mistakes, thank you. -- [[Special:Contributions/186.124.46.183|186.124.46.183]] 16:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Did anyone else notices that you can get the gist by only reading the bolded text? It's probably a just me. Anyone want to take the time to compile the bold text only and place it in the explination? [[User:Crsoccerfreak19|Crsoccerfreak19]] ([[User talk:Crsoccerfreak19|talk]]) 18:47, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

:I didn't see this before, but I think that work is a great idea. So my next job here is to work on that an checking if this does make sense. Thanks for your hint.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

------

I did an full update to the transcript. I used the existing parts here, many thanks to the contributors, the free web site [http://www.ocronline.com/ OCR Online] (the only one did work, in fact it did work as a hell) and {{w|LibreOffice Writer}} for changing the case to lower case. After that it was just some manual work without typing all that text.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:13, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

The meaning I took from this comic was very much [[wikt:plus_%C3%A7a_change,_plus_c'est_la_m%C3%AAme_chose|Plus ca change]]. There are translated Roman messages that say very similar things about the current state of Latin, and I bet even ''that'' was merely an inadvertent echo of prior ages. As one who can be very verbose with (at least ''intended'') correct spelling, grammar and vocabulary, I ''could'' go on at great length about how this works for the current day, but on this occasion shall restrain myself. Yours faithfully  [[Special:Contributions/178.98.31.27|178.98.31.27]] 20:56, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Adding 'the sub text':
----
The art of letter-writing is fast dying out. We fire off a multitude of rapid and short notes, instead of sitting down to have a good talk oer a real sheet of paper.

In olden times it was different.

Men now live think and work at express speed. Sulkily read as they travel ... leaving them no time to talk with the friend who may share the compartment with them.

The age of leisure is dead, and the art of conversation is dying.

A craving for literary nips. There never was an age in which so many people were able to write badly.

The art of pure line engraving is dying out. We live at too fast a rate.

Nothing is left to the imagination. And human faculty dwindle away amid the million inventions that have been introduced to render its exercise unnecessary. Thirty pages is now too much. Fifteen pages. Further condensed. A summary of the summary. Those who are dipping into so many subjects and gathering information in a summary and superficial form lose the habit of settling down to great works. Hurried reading can never be good reading.

Mental and nervous degeneration among a growing class of people. Brain incapable of normal working... in a large measure due to the hurry and excitement of modern life. Almost instantaneous communication between remote points of the globe.

Teach the children how to play. Instead of shutting them in badly ventilated schoolrooms.

Increased demand made by the conditions of modern life upon the brain. We talk across a continent, telegraph across an ocean. We take even our pleasures sadly and make a task of our play.

The managers of sensational newspapers. Create perverted tastes and develop vicious tendencies.

To take sufficient time for our meals seems frequently impossible.

May I be permitted to say a word in favour of a very worthy and valuable old friend of mine, Mr. Long Walk? I am afraid that this good gentleman is in danger of getting neglected, if not forgotten.

People talk as they ride bicycles - at a rush - without pausing to consider their surroundings. The profession of letters is so little understood.

There is a tendency among the children of today to rebel against restraint.

Our modern family gathering, silent. Each individual with his head buried in his favourite magazine.

Deal openly with situations which no person would have dared to mention in general society forty years ago. Nude men and women in the daily journals.

Fitness and courtliness too often totally lacking.

A hundred years ago it took sol long and cost so much to send a letter that it seemed worth while to put some time and thought into writing it. A brief letter to-day may be followed by another next week - a "line" now by another to-morrow.
[[unsigned|209.217.94.93]] 21:27, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
:Thanks [209.217.94.93], I will put in my version here and I am happy if you can correct possible mistakes.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:58, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Can anyone validate these are true quotes? I tried searching for the one in Google Books for Morley: Ancient and Modern and it came up with no results. They're great quotes, but is it possible they're made up?--[[Special:Contributions/119.224.37.9|119.224.37.9]] 07:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

At least one of the quotes is real: "So much is exhibited to the eye that nothing is left to the imagination" http://books.google.com/books?id=nc_UAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA265&ots=AAC4OimA5D&dq=%22So%20much%20is%20exhibited%20to%20the%20eye%20that%20nothing%20is%20left%20to%20the%20imagination%22&pg=PA265#v=onepage&q=%22So%20much%20is%20exhibited%20to%20the%20eye%20that%20nothing%20is%20left%20to%20the%20imagination%22&f=false{{unsigned|216.55.56.42}}

The only point this comic is trying to make is that yes the olden times were different, but they were not as different as we suppose. The people had exactly the same intelligence and capacities as we do today, and apparently shared the same concerns about change, and the detrimental effect it will have on all parts of society. OF course, every generation puts itself in the position of greatest importance, and believes that the present moment is of the highest criticality. Sorry folks - get over yourselves. It isn't true. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 18:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1207: AirAware

2014-09-25T06:12:47Z

Orazor:

I somehow has the feeling that the business-plan behind is that people will pay you that the drone LEAVES. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 08:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:That would certainly work, but I'm not sure Black Hat wants that money. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:: Even if this is the revenue model, it would be an undertaking that still genera...err.. extorts revenue. So, the drone is still incorrect when it yells out in the last panel. On the other hand, we're back to square one (the definition of business) if it's not the blackmailing BlackHat you pay to get rid of his drones, but another business that shoots them down. [[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 19:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The "as it does not seem to generate money" bit seems a bit premature in the explanation. At the stage he's questioning whether it ''is'' a business, the question is "''who'' would even pay?". Only in the last frame does the utter lack of generated money (above idea from DaB. aside) arise and make him assert that it is ''not'' one, which gets him shouted at. Not sure how to re-write it, though. [[Special:Contributions/31.110.91.76|31.110.91.76]] 09:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:Yeah, I was thinking that, but I didn't really know what to write and I was a bit rushed, I might fix it up now. [[Special:Contributions/203.51.90.96|203.51.90.96]] 14:06, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this could also be to do with how Google Now works - e.g. it will often tell you things that you are semi-aware of, but ignoring.--[[Special:Contributions/194.201.25.22|194.201.25.22]] 12:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Google will make money on Now the same as always. By renting our eyeballs. I used it for the first time last night. It located me and showed me nearby businesses. If they weren't paying for clickthrough then, they will over time. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 12:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)''

: I have not seen those yet, maybe because I'm living in a rural area. But it always shows me the weather, upcoming appointments (and when to leave for them) and traffic on my way to work. At work (smaller city) it also shows me places nearby to visit, but no ads, only POIs. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

::Yes, and how do you think Google determines *which* POIs to show you? It's essentially an ad that's embedded so deeply into the user experience that you don't even realize it's an ad. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The bit about "must nake money" being WRONG is probably a reference to the scores of dotcoms who came to market with the idea that "We'll make something cool now, figure out how to make money from it later" [[User:Gardnertoo|Gardnertoo]] ([[User talk:Gardnertoo|talk]]) 13:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, there is only one kind of organization that collect tons of dollars "just yelling at stranger from the sky": churches (in addition, churches are non profit organizations). [[User:Andcoz|Andcoz]] ([[User talk:Andcoz|talk]]) 14:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:LIKE! [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Big Brother 1984 (from 1948 by George Orwell) is just a Child's Birthday comparing to Goooogle.
And I like Goooogle as everyone else here does.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course the Pakistani version of this drone shoots you (and/or your relatives) if you say something silly, unless you pay it enough money. ~~tbwtg~~

I think that this explanation is wrong. This strip is about giving too much privacy. Google or Facebook knows much more about us than anybody else, and information is money, so this IS a huge business even if you dont pay anything --[[Special:Contributions/89.70.180.131|89.70.180.131]] 23:43, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
:so fix it [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 04:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
:I didn't really think of that whilst writing it, but that doesn't mean it was wrong, just that focus was on the wrong thing. [[Special:Contributions/123.243.217.72|123.243.217.72]] 05:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Any good business makes decisions to please or entice it's paying customers. You are not google's customer, or facebook's. If you didn't pay, you're not the customer, you're the stock-in-trade. The hardware store owner doesn't ask the hammers where he should display them. The grocer doesn't ask the watermelon for advice on marketing policy. ~wrybred

So the Innocence Project, say, has wrongly convicted prisoners as its stock-in-trade (since they don't pay for the representation). So, following the money trail, it must be the *donors* to the Innocence Project who are the clients, since they are paying. So the IP attorneys should consult with the donors about the defense strategy, not the prisoners. In fact, attorney-client privilege in this case must cover communication between the IP attorney and the donor, not the prisoner represented. It's all so clear to me now! [[Special:Contributions/64.20.186.2|64.20.186.2]] 18:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)larK

:I don't think your analogy quite holds up, <s>and I'm not entirely sure about the point you are trying to make</s>. (NOTE: sorry -- didn't mean to make that sound so deprecating. Please help me to understand your point.)

:The relationship between a lawyer and the person/entity s/he represents is a little bit (and by little bit I mean a lot) different from that of a company and its share holders. I think the question in this case is to whom the fiduciary duty is owed. And for a lawyer, it is always his or her client. Sure, donors to IP keep the organization running, and *maybe* the lawyer might consult with the board of directors (or whatever steering comittee structure IP has set up) to determine whether to take a particular case. Once that case is selected and the prisoner agrees, however, the attorney/client privilege only exists between the lawyer and the prisoner in this case. As an aside, I'm sure IP does employ a staff attorney(s) whose sole job is to look out for IP's interests, and with whom an attorney/client privilege exists. But that's a different story. While corporations only care about money, that's not *always* true for lawyers. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1207: AirAware

2014-09-25T05:46:44Z

Orazor:

I somehow has the feeling that the business-plan behind is that people will pay you that the drone LEAVES. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 08:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:That would certainly work, but I'm not sure Black Hat wants that money. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:: Even if this is the revenue model, it would be an undertaking that still genera...err.. extorts revenue. So, the drone is still incorrect when it yells out in the last panel. On the other hand, we're back to square one (the definition of business) if it's not the blackmailing BlackHat you pay to get rid of his drones, but another business that shoots them down. [[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 19:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The "as it does not seem to generate money" bit seems a bit premature in the explanation. At the stage he's questioning whether it ''is'' a business, the question is "''who'' would even pay?". Only in the last frame does the utter lack of generated money (above idea from DaB. aside) arise and make him assert that it is ''not'' one, which gets him shouted at. Not sure how to re-write it, though. [[Special:Contributions/31.110.91.76|31.110.91.76]] 09:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:Yeah, I was thinking that, but I didn't really know what to write and I was a bit rushed, I might fix it up now. [[Special:Contributions/203.51.90.96|203.51.90.96]] 14:06, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this could also be to do with how Google Now works - e.g. it will often tell you things that you are semi-aware of, but ignoring.--[[Special:Contributions/194.201.25.22|194.201.25.22]] 12:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Google will make money on Now the same as always. By renting our eyeballs. I used it for the first time last night. It located me and showed me nearby businesses. If they weren't paying for clickthrough then, they will over time. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 12:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)''

: I have not seen those yet, maybe because I'm living in a rural area. But it always shows me the weather, upcoming appointments (and when to leave for them) and traffic on my way to work. At work (smaller city) it also shows me places nearby to visit, but no ads, only POIs. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

::Yes, and how do you think Google determines *which* POIs to show you? It's essentially an ad that's embedded so deeply into the user experience that you don't even realize it's an ad. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The bit about "must nake money" being WRONG is probably a reference to the scores of dotcoms who came to market with the idea that "We'll make something cool now, figure out how to make money from it later" [[User:Gardnertoo|Gardnertoo]] ([[User talk:Gardnertoo|talk]]) 13:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, there is only one kind of organization that collect tons of dollars "just yelling at stranger from the sky": churches (in addition, churches are non profit organizations). [[User:Andcoz|Andcoz]] ([[User talk:Andcoz|talk]]) 14:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:LIKE! [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Big Brother 1984 (from 1948 by George Orwell) is just a Child's Birthday comparing to Goooogle.
And I like Goooogle as everyone else here does.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course the Pakistani version of this drone shoots you (and/or your relatives) if you say something silly, unless you pay it enough money. ~~tbwtg~~

I think that this explanation is wrong. This strip is about giving too much privacy. Google or Facebook knows much more about us than anybody else, and information is money, so this IS a huge business even if you dont pay anything --[[Special:Contributions/89.70.180.131|89.70.180.131]] 23:43, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
:so fix it [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 04:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
:I didn't really think of that whilst writing it, but that doesn't mean it was wrong, just that focus was on the wrong thing. [[Special:Contributions/123.243.217.72|123.243.217.72]] 05:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Any good business makes decisions to please or entice it's paying customers. You are not google's customer, or facebook's. If you didn't pay, you're not the customer, you're the stock-in-trade. The hardware store owner doesn't ask the hammers where he should display them. The grocer doesn't ask the watermelon for advice on marketing policy. ~wrybred

So the Innocence Project, say, has wrongly convicted prisoners as its stock-in-trade (since they don't pay for the representation). So, following the money trail, it must be the *donors* to the Innocence Project who are the clients, since they are paying. So the IP attorneys should consult with the donors about the defense strategy, not the prisoners. In fact, attorney-client privilege in this case must cover communication between the IP attorney and the donor, not the prisoner represented. It's all so clear to me now! [[Special:Contributions/64.20.186.2|64.20.186.2]] 18:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)larK

:I don't think your analogy quite holds up, and I'm not entirely sure about the point you are trying to make. The relationship between a lawyer and the person/entity s/he represents is a little bit (and by little bit I mean a lot) different from that of a company and its share holders. I think the question in this case is to whom the fiduciary duty is owed. And for a lawyer, it is always his or her client. Sure, donors to IP keep the organization running, and *maybe* the lawyer might consult with the board of directors (or whatever steering comittee structure IP has set up) to determine whether to take a particular case. Once that case is selected and the prisoner agrees, however, the attorney/client privilege only exists between the lawyer and the prisoner in this case. As an aside, I'm sure IP does employ a staff attorney(s) whose sole job is to look out for IP's interests, and with whom an attorney/client privilege exists. But that's a different story. While corporations only care about money, that's not *always* true for lawyers. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:46, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1207: AirAware

2014-09-25T05:31:09Z

Orazor:

I somehow has the feeling that the business-plan behind is that people will pay you that the drone LEAVES. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 08:39, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:That would certainly work, but I'm not sure Black Hat wants that money. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:: Even if this is the revenue model, it would be an undertaking that still genera...err.. extorts revenue. So, the drone is still incorrect when it yells out in the last panel. On the other hand, we're back to square one (the definition of business) if it's not the blackmailing BlackHat you pay to get rid of his drones, but another business that shoots them down. [[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 19:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

The "as it does not seem to generate money" bit seems a bit premature in the explanation. At the stage he's questioning whether it ''is'' a business, the question is "''who'' would even pay?". Only in the last frame does the utter lack of generated money (above idea from DaB. aside) arise and make him assert that it is ''not'' one, which gets him shouted at. Not sure how to re-write it, though. [[Special:Contributions/31.110.91.76|31.110.91.76]] 09:59, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

:Yeah, I was thinking that, but I didn't really know what to write and I was a bit rushed, I might fix it up now. [[Special:Contributions/203.51.90.96|203.51.90.96]] 14:06, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I think this could also be to do with how Google Now works - e.g. it will often tell you things that you are semi-aware of, but ignoring.--[[Special:Contributions/194.201.25.22|194.201.25.22]] 12:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Google will make money on Now the same as always. By renting our eyeballs. I used it for the first time last night. It located me and showed me nearby businesses. If they weren't paying for clickthrough then, they will over time. ''— [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 12:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)''

: I have not seen those yet, maybe because I'm living in a rural area. But it always shows me the weather, upcoming appointments (and when to leave for them) and traffic on my way to work. At work (smaller city) it also shows me places nearby to visit, but no ads, only POIs. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:17, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

::Yes, and how do you think Google determines *which* POIs to show you? It's essentially an ad that's embedded so deeply into the user experience that you don't even realize it's an ad.

The bit about "must nake money" being WRONG is probably a reference to the scores of dotcoms who came to market with the idea that "We'll make something cool now, figure out how to make money from it later" [[User:Gardnertoo|Gardnertoo]] ([[User talk:Gardnertoo|talk]]) 13:30, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

IMHO, there is only one kind of organization that collect tons of dollars "just yelling at stranger from the sky": churches (in addition, churches are non profit organizations). [[User:Andcoz|Andcoz]] ([[User talk:Andcoz|talk]]) 14:45, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Big Brother 1984 (from 1948 by George Orwell) is just a Child's Birthday comparing to Goooogle.
And I like Goooogle as everyone else here does.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 15:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Of course the Pakistani version of this drone shoots you (and/or your relatives) if you say something silly, unless you pay it enough money. ~~tbwtg~~

I think that this explanation is wrong. This strip is about giving too much privacy. Google or Facebook knows much more about us than anybody else, and information is money, so this IS a huge business even if you dont pay anything --[[Special:Contributions/89.70.180.131|89.70.180.131]] 23:43, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
:so fix it [[User:Alpha|Alpha]] ([[User talk:Alpha|talk]]) 04:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
:I didn't really think of that whilst writing it, but that doesn't mean it was wrong, just that focus was on the wrong thing. [[Special:Contributions/123.243.217.72|123.243.217.72]] 05:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Any good business makes decisions to please or entice it's paying customers. You are not google's customer, or facebook's. If you didn't pay, you're not the customer, you're the stock-in-trade. The hardware store owner doesn't ask the hammers where he should display them. The grocer doesn't ask the watermelon for advice on marketing policy. ~wrybred

So the Innocence Project, say, has wrongly convicted prisoners as its stock-in-trade (since they don't pay for the representation). So, following the money trail, it must be the *donors* to the Innocence Project who are the clients, since they are paying. So the IP attorneys should consult with the donors about the defense strategy, not the prisoners. In fact, attorney-client privilege in this case must cover communication between the IP attorney and the donor, not the prisoner represented. It's all so clear to me now! [[Special:Contributions/64.20.186.2|64.20.186.2]] 18:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)larK

Talk:1206: Einstein

2014-09-25T05:26:36Z

Orazor:

I think left Cueball was just trolling. [[Special:Contributions/81.23.24.48|81.23.24.48]] 05:00, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

"Disproving Einstein" is usually thought to be disproving special or general relativity theory --[[Special:Contributions/83.20.253.13|83.20.253.13]] 05:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

: I am pretty sure the joke is that disproving anything Einstein said is "disproving Einstein". [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 09:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

:Wasn't the "disproving special or general relativity theory" already sort of done with quantum physics? Or do we only suspect that but lack the actual proof until we have confirmed {{w|Quantum_gravity|Quantum gravity}}? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

::In physics an experimentally likely theory is disproved by making an experiment that gives different results than the theory predicts. As none of the theories of relativity say anything about the statistical properties of electrons and photons, quantum experiments do not really disprove relativity. If you could measure gravitation on atomic scales you might, but there are no guarantees, as it might behave as relativity predicts, which would mean that some part of quantum field theory is either wrong, or not yet discovered (interestingly nine fold SUSY with local invariance might still reproduce general relativity at large scales, the theorists are still calculating). Generally, one wants to modify quantum theory, and keep relativity as it is (in a way what string theory does) and not the other way around.[[Special:Contributions/85.164.251.29|85.164.251.29]] 08:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Is it just me or did Cueball travel back in time to 1947? That would certainly be a bigger way to disprove Einstein than to go after his opinion of sandwich shoppes. -- [[User:Sturmovik|Sturmovik]]
:<code><nowiki>{{Like}}</nowiki></code> [[User:PinkAmpersand|PinkAmpersand]] ([[User talk:PinkAmpersand|talk]]) 19:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

;LOL, wrong patent
:''Moved from [[Talk:Main Page#LOL, wrong patent|Talk:Main Page]] -- [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 04:30, 2 May 2013 (UTC) ''
I googled patent number 39561 and got [http://www.google.com/patents?id=EA0AAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false this], which is a patent for carriage wheels, not a gravel sorter. I'm like, "You bet Einstein was wrong if he called that a gravel sorter!" Then I realized that he wasn't a patent clerk in the US patent office, but rather the Swiss. --[[Special:Contributions/138.67.184.240|138.67.184.240]] 03:23, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
:I googled "patent 39561 gravel sorter". [https://www.diigo.com/item/image/3edhj/qcu0 Screenshot]. Notice that first 9 links are about this comic xD --[[User:DiEvAl|DiEvAl]] ([[User talk:DiEvAl|talk]]) 22:24, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
:The Swiss Patent Office has a FAQ page, which also includes a link to [https://www.ige.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Institut/d/i109401.pdf Patent 39561 Gravel Sorter] Full FAQ: [https://www.ige.ch/en/about-us/einstein/frequently-asked-questions.html Swiss Patent Office]--[[User:Philster|Philster]] ([[User talk:Philster|talk]]) 12:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Has terminology changed since Einstein was an examiner. Provisional patents are not reviewed for patentability {{unsigned ip|96.248.90.153}}

I think part of the joke is that by "I am currently...", Cueball is describing what he is doing right now in the diner, i.e. eating a sandwich. [[Special:Contributions/94.101.35.45|94.101.35.45]] 11:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it's because of changing tastes and whatnot. In the mid-20th century, sandwiches were either homemade or available from delicatessens. Now we have places like Subway and Jimmy John's.{{unsigned ip|108.162.250.223}}

:or Potbelly, or Panera, or Pret, or Blimpie, or au Bon Pain... the possibilities are virtually limitless! [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 05:26, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1202: Girls and Boys

2014-09-24T12:42:32Z

Orazor:

I figured it was a poem. Turns out it is, of a sort.
https://encrypted.google.com/search?q="girls+go+to"+"to+get+more"
[[Special:Contributions/68.151.108.107|68.151.108.107]] 04:50, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
: The original poem is "Boys go to Jupiter, to get more stupider, girls go to college, to get more knowledge. [[Special:Contributions/97.122.98.70|97.122.98.70]] 03:23, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
I thought of ''Men are from Mars Women are from Venus'' by John Gray and the response ''Men Are from Earth. Women Are from Earth: Deal with It'' by Gorge Carlin. If only the sexes could work together we could go to Jupiter.
--[[Special:Contributions/202.129.80.226|202.129.80.226]] 08:12, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
: This is wonderful and I think in the same spirit as the comic. Stop the 'sex war' jokes and admit that both boys and girls want knowledge. And to arrive to Jupiter. [[Special:Contributions/84.150.177.228|84.150.177.228]] 14:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
:: Both of you need to read some feminist literature (real feminist, not pop-feminist). [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 18:03, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
::: For example?--[[Special:Contributions/58.6.224.93|58.6.224.93]] 01:26, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
:::: Anything by "bell hooks" (it's a pen name, and it is all lowercase) [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 19:16, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
:::: https://excoradfeminisms.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/bell_hooks-feminism_is_for_everybody.pdf [[Special:Contributions/173.190.128.129|173.190.128.129]] 16:06, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I would interpret differently the two last pictures: as girls and boys SEPARATLY go to college to get knowledge, Girls and boys TOGETHER go to Jupiter, meaning when a boy and girl interact, they generally act stupid... {{unsigned ip|217.128.49.53}}
: I cannot imagine the author of XKCD using going to Jupiter as an example of doing something stupid. Absolutely improbable IMHO.[[Special:Contributions/84.150.177.228|84.150.177.228]] 14:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

:isnt thw rocket quite phallic? girlsnand boysngo to colledge to getmore....ehm... knowledge? {{unsigned ip|88.119.96.51}}
:: No, is only a rocket. But, thinking about your comment like it was a response from a rorschach test, well, it tell us something about yourself [[User:Chris-l|Chris-l]] ([[User talk:Chris-l|talk]]) 15:22, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
:: It tells us that he's drunk. [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 18:03, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

::: For rockets it's the aerodynamic, but some towers make you thinking, especially if some mayors compete who has it bigger ... I mean who has bigger tower in their city. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:34, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

: After reading the discussion here, I actually support the sexual innuendo explanation. Consider what you learn with american college movies, xkcd's tendency to subvert ideas (remember it's a child's chanting) and the rocket analogy. Also, the title text may have the purpose of correcting the reader's dirty mind. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.28|108.162.212.28]] 02:09, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

: [[Special:Contributions/99.66.9.158|99.66.9.158]] 11:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)Sometimes a rocket is just a rocket.
: Looks to me like a typical Titan rocket. [[User:Zelmo|Zelmo]] ([[User talk:Zelmo|talk]]) 14:15, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

: I wish today's comic made me laugh. [[Special:Contributions/184.66.160.91|184.66.160.91]] 14:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

: "Go to Jupiter to get knowledge" is a reference to the movie 2001. Also, I remember hearing the poem as "GIRLS, go to COLL,ege so THEY can get, KNOW,ledge, BOYS, go to JUpiter so THEY, can get STUpider" which avoids the "more stupider" construction. [[Special:Contributions/66.202.132.250|66.202.132.250]] 17:57, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

: knowledge or no knowledge, I don't want to go TO Jupiter. Near Jupiter, maybe. Ganymede? {{unsigned ip|‎24.79.11.46}}

::Not TOO near Jupiter either. Io is particularly unhospitable. Europe? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:34, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

:Frankly, I am thanfull Mr. Munroe made this. This taunt, while never directly aimed at myself, was an irritant to me, a knowledge-lover. This comic reconciles the genders and deconstructs the taunt. (Of course, from what I had seen in my life, most school-age boys, even the adolescent ones, WOULD prefer getting stupider, what with their real-life trolling and immature behaviour.) [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 12:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

::Nah, most boys wouldn't like to be stupider, they are perfectly satisfied with how stupid they are :-) -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:34, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I first head of the taunt (but with the clauses reversed) in Hey Arnold! [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 12:05, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Girls think going to Jupiter is stupid? Typical. XY FTW :P [[Special:Contributions/220.224.246.97|220.224.246.97]] 12:25, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm, I saw the rocket blasting off as sexual inuendo. And the alt text/pop up reference about going to Jupiter to get more knowledge I took as gaining carnal knowledge. {{unsigned ip|98.203.137.178}}

Currently the explanation says that '.. human beings arn't yet even capable of going to Mars.' This is patently false - it confuses ability with desire. I'm going to change the wording on that. [[Special:Contributions/24.70.188.179|24.70.188.179]] 18:08, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

A manned mission to Jupiter would actually be pretty stupid since it's made of gas. They're better off going to one of the moons. Europa, maybe, or Ganymede. [[User:Jake|Jake]] ([[User talk:Jake|talk]]) 15:51, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Oy. There is some serious overthink going on here. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 12:42, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:836: Sickness

2014-09-19T10:53:00Z

Orazor:

Someone evidently didn't understand Hamlet too well. In "To be or not to be" he's contemplating suicide. "Take arms against..." means 'kill yourself so you won't have to put up with life's crappy bits. I would rewrite the Hamlet reference myself, but I'm too lazy. Could someone with a good understanding of the play do it? Please?[[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.85|173.245.48.85]] 01:42, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
:Agreed. Change made. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 08:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
:"Take arms against a sea of troubles..." does not mean to commit suicide. It means to fight against the struggle referred to the in the previous line "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune". The contemplation of suicide is expressed in the phrase "When he himself might his quietus make / With a bare bodkin" when one could end one's life with a dagger. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.151|141.101.70.151]] 08:35, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, "to take arms against a sea of troubles" in this context does in fact does mean to commit suicide. The struggle refered to in the previous line is whether to put up with the unbearable situation he (Hamlet) has been placed in, or, in the next line(s), to exit the situation via suicide. Elsewise, why would he suddenly transition from "overcoming obstacles" to considering death? Doesn't make sense. For your reference, check out http://www.nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/hamlet-to-be-or-not-to-be/.[[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

990: Plastic Bags

2014-09-19T10:35:12Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */ made a few more changes to 1. (re)-address the questiones raised in discussion regarding U.S. practices 2. clarify some of the language

{{comic
| number = 990
| date = December 14, 2011
| title = Plastic Bags
| image = plastic_bags.png
| titletext = The high I feel when I actually remember to bring my reusable bags to the store--and take them inside rather than leaving them in the parked car--can last for days.
}}

==Explanation==
In the United States, most {{w|grocery stores}} provide {{w|plastic shopping bag|plastic bags}} for free, as well as a "bagger," whose only job is to bag the groceries — although sometimes this function is performed by the cashier. An exception to this rule might be "extreme discount" stores, such as {{w|Aldi}}. Customers are rarely, if ever, expected to bag their own groceries, even if they bring a reusable bag. It follows that sometimes a bagger might become a bit overzealous and use too many bags for too few products. This comic is a mocking this tendency to go overboard, which is incredibly wasteful. The last frame takes this practice to its absurd and frustrating end, showing a {{w|reusable bag}} that has been double bagged. Exactly why bags are provided is probably a topic best left to academic discussion, but suffice to say that it is the state of the industry in the U.S. Perhaps grocery chains are concerned that if they did not provide free plastic bags, customers would defect, instead, to a competitor. Most shoppers view plastic bags and bagging by the store as givens.

Relatively recently, some U.S. jurisditions have begun to join {{w|Phase-out of lightweight plastic bags|more and more}} governments world-wide to either ban plastic bags, charge customers for them, or generate taxes on each sold bag. Using Washington, DC ([[Randall]]'s home turf) example, as of 2010 customers are charged a $0.05 tax (again, by the local government and NOT by the grocery store) for each plastic bag, and receive an equivalent rebate for each reusable bag. While today it is accepted as a fact of life, the tax angered many at its adoption, even spurring some to claim that they would do their shopping in the next state over (in this case, Virginia), driving 5 or 10 miles to save 5 or 10 cents (this would address the theme of wasting money to save a trivial amount, addressed by [[Randall]] in an earlier comic). The tax has since become accepted as a fact of life, and has been quite successful at its initial goal of reducing the amount of bags discarded in area rivers and streams.

The title text refers to the idea that while many attempt to make the environmentally-conscious decision to bag their groceries with {{w|reusable bags,}} thereby keeping plastic bags out of landfills, sometimes they forget to bring their bags with them from the car, or even leave the bags at home altogether. Randall is commenting on the sense of euphoria he derives from a relatively simple task: remembering to bring the reusable bag to the grocery store rather than the good feeling from helping clean up the environment.

==Transcript==
::Fun Fact: Stores have a competition to see who can spread your items across the most plastic shopping bags.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[5 items placed in a single bag; heaviest item placed at the bottom.]
:Shopper: Thanks!

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Same items; heaviest item now placed in separate bag.]
:Shopper: Oh, that's easier to carry.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Heavy item is now double bagged.]
:Shopper: Double-bagging the big stuff makes sense...

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[The other 4 items are now split into 2 separate bags.]
:Shopper: That's a bit wasteful...

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[The 2 separate bags are now double bagged.]
:Shopper: You just put five items in six bags.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Every item is now in its own, double-bagged bag.]
:Shopper: OK! I give up! I'll buy a reusable bag!

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Reusable bag is double-bagged.]
:Shopper: Augh!

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:1133: Up Goer Five

2014-09-19T09:10:45Z

Orazor:

Isn't this comic essentially just saying 'rocket science: not actually as complicated as the phrase "it's not rocket science" would have us beleive'{{unsigned|203.211.80.97}}

This comic is also a celebration of what many people, presumably including former NASA employee Randall, consider the greatest technological achievement ever. {{unsigned|158.169.131.14}}

I'm surprised "ship" isn't among the most commonly used words in English. Where do these statistics come from? [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 12:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:It makes sense that "capsule" and "spaceship" (as one word) are not in the "ten hundred" most-common words (Really, "thousand" isn't on this list either?), but not "fuel" and/or "tank"? People (context: US Midwesterner) talk about filling up their cars all the time! I'd like to see the original 1,000-word list. (Also: "Up Goer"? Well, it goes up -- that's about ALL it does. Makes sense, I guess.) --BigMal27 // [[Special:Contributions/192.136.15.149|192.136.15.149]] 13:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe is Randall referring to [[wikipedia:Simplified Technical English|Simplified Technical English]]? — [[User:Ethaniel|Ethaniel]] ([[User talk:Ethaniel|talk]]) 14:09, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:There is an entry in the Simple English Wikipedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_English . The Simple English Wikipedia is interesting to browse, and challenging to write articles for. [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 14:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:: Look up Basic English. It is the 850 most used words (or rather the 850 most used words when it was invented in 1930). According to Wikipedia it is still used in some countries as the basic vocabulary to first teach in English. The list of words is here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list . It looks like this could be what he used.i[[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 17:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
::: The 850 Basic English word list includes "liquid" and "second" but does not include "world", "five" and "third" so we're still looking for the vocabulary list.
I'm inclined to think this is also a nod to 1984's {{w|Newspeak}}, and the dumbing-down effect of an ''overly'' {{w|controlled language}}. It's good to simplify (linguistic) complexity, but with that simplification of text comes a simplification of capacity, too. We push back horizons by exploring unknowns, so restricting things to a small set of knowns may be counterproductive. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:This is the very point I am trying to make time and again. Some topics cannot be correctly explained to everyone. BTW XKCD #547 had a similar point.

::I think that's a very unfortunate "point" to be trying to make time and time again. My personal feelings aside, it goes against Randall's and xkcd's ethos, as well. Just as in law or any other specialized area, an expert, given a reasonable amount of time, thought, and vocabulary, should be able to explain even very complex ideas to lay persons. If there's a failure to do so, the burden should rest with the explainer. And frankly, that failure might even expose some lack of understanding on the explainer's end, as well. I have discussed this in greater depth below. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

The comic is almost certainly using http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list or another work list like it.[[Special:Contributions/82.16.27.115|82.16.27.115]] 16:58, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The phrase in the explanation "Helium is much less prone to catching fire" brought a smile to my lips as there is literally <SIC> nothing less prone to catching fire than Helium. [[Special:Contributions/90.208.12.4|90.208.12.4]] 23:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:<s>Unfortunately some pedant has changed it to the technically correct, but much less smile-inducing "inflammable". Pitty, it made me smile too.</s> [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 23:22, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Edit: I've reverted it, because the whole edit was fraught with incorrect minor changes. 23:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Inflammable is '''wrong'''. It means the same as flammable. If you mean 'incapable of burning', the opposite of flammable/inflammable is ''nonflammable''. This is one of the subtleties of English which is avoided by using a greater number of simple words! [[Special:Contributions/87.252.61.205|87.252.61.205]] 13:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I wouldn't say Helium is least prone to catching fire. Sure, it's least prone to chemical reaction, but it is prone to nuclear fusion, which looks sort of like fire. On the other hand Iron, while it can be oxygenated, doesn't really catch fire doing that and I doubt it can chemically react in a way which would look that way. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Fire is strictly defined as the rapid oxidation of a substance in the presence of heat - nuclear fusion is transmutation, not combustion. Iron can undergo a thermite reaction which makes spectacular flying flames. Youtube should have a billion videos of thermite reactions for your perusal. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]]

:::Fine steel wool (such as 0000 grade) burns exceedingly well. A survival technique is to use flashlight batteries to make a spark in the steel wool, which then becomes an excellent fire starter.

Since the comic can't use the actual words, it took me some time to find Wikipedia's articles that describe the actual "up goer." In case there's anybody like me who wanted to know more details, I found the {{w|Apollo (spacecraft)}} and {{w|Saturn V}} articles to be very interesting and relevant. BTW, "that stuff they burned in lights before houses had power" is {{w|RP-1|highly refined kerosene}}. [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 00:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks for doing the research! I've incorporated this into the explanation. Feel free to add more if you think it needs more. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 01:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I like your additions. Much better than what I could come up with! [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 23:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be pretty nice for a day if everyone just spoke using the most used thousand words in his respective language. Just off hand, describing the band name "Led Zeppelin" would certainly be a treat--[[User:Dangerkeith3000|Dangerkeith3000]] ([[User talk:Dangerkeith3000|talk]]) 18:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Anyone who will not be fired off trying to only speak the most used thousand words for workday is working manually or not at all. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

::Or is a school teacher, or working primarily with people who have language difficulties...

I think NASA should rebrand themselves "US Space Team" it's so much cooler than the "National Aeronautics and Space Administration"! --[[User:NHSavage|NHSavage]] ([[User talk:NHSavage|talk]]) 07:39, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I have not once heard the word "goer" before this. Thousand most common? [[Special:Contributions/67.52.144.154|67.52.144.154]] 16:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

:Randall used the verb "to go" and as it's a verb, any conjugation could be considered the same word. I think that's where he got "goer" from. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:29, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
::Well, not a conjugation, a different part of speech. That's a slightly more extreme leap than a change of inflection, but probably still allowable for these purposes. [[User:Jerodast|- jerodast]] ([[User talk:Jerodast|talk]]) 15:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone has made an "Up-Goer Five Text Editor", with a link to a (the?) ten-hundred wordlist: http://splasho.com/upgoer5/. [[Special:Contributions/83.233.5.126|83.233.5.126]] 18:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm having trouble believing that lift off is not on the common word list. [[User:DruidDriver|DruidDriver]] ([[User talk:DruidDriver|talk]]) 01:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

'''On language and explaining'''

Strongly disagree with the contention at the beginning of this explanation that "This comic is a commentary on the absurdity of boiling down technical explanations for lay people..." On many occasions Randall de-jargonizes/simplifies complex ideas so that they can be understood by most anyone. Heck, he dedicates an entire blog (whatif) to it. In this interview with fivethirtyeight.com, (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/xkcd-randall-munroe-qanda-what-if/) among others, Randall explains that lay persons, given enough time, patience, and the correct guidance, should be able to understand most any scientific/technical idea.

To wit: "It’s tempting to think of technical audiences and general audiences as completely different, but I think that no matter who you’re talking to, the principles of explaining things clearly are the same. The only real difference is which things you can assume they already know[.] ... I’m always looking for ways of looking at problems — mental models — that make the answers intuitively clear. Once I’ve hit on one of those, '''I just try to explain it as simply and clearly as I can[.]'''"

Accordingly, I have altered the explanation to reflect this world view. The point of this comic is to illustrate that one should be able to explain complicated ideas to people who lack a technical background using simple language. Granted that Randall is imposing upon himself an unreasonable "ten hundred word" linguistic restriction, but I think that only goes to further his point. Unless the "explainee" is being unreasonably obtuse, the burden falls upon the shoulders of the explainer to help a non-lay audience understand. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 08:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

1133: Up Goer Five

2014-09-19T09:02:33Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1133
| date = November 12, 2012
| title = Up Goer Five
| before = [[#Explanation|↓ Skip to explanation ↓]]
| image = up goer five.png
| titletext = Another thing that is a bad problem is if you're flying up to space and the parts start to fall off your space car in the wrong order. If that happens, it means you won't go to space today, or maybe ever.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic is an illustration (albeit to a comical degree) of the principle that given the appropriate vocabulary, any technical concept should be understandable to a lay audience. Since most of the jargon used in rocket science is not among the most commonly used words in everyday life, Randall has challenged himself to "translate" the blueprints for the Saturn Five rocket using only one thousand of the most commonly-used words in the English language.

This comic is a diagram of the {{w|Saturn V}} rocket, "Saturn" isn't a very common word apparently, and neither is rocket, so [[Randall]] decided to use "Up Goer" which is a fair approximation of a craft designed to lift a payload from the earth to space. The Saturn V vehicle, which was in use by {{w|NASA}} from 1967 to 1972, is the vehicle as a whole. The engines of the Saturn V (the part that makes it go up) were divided into three stages. The first stage ({{w|S-IC}}) had five {{w|F-1 (rocket engine)|F-1}} engines which burned {{w|RP-1|refined kerosene}} mixed with oxygen as its fuel. That stage burned for 2 minutes 48 seconds and pushed the whole thing up about 61 kilometers (~38 miles) into the sky. After it fell away the {{w|S-II}} stage was activated. It used 5 {{w|J-2 (rocket engine)|J-2}} engines in the same configuration as the F-1s, and burned {{w|liquid hydrogen}} mixed with {{w|liquid oxygen}} for 6 minutes 35 seconds pushing the astronauts up to 184 kilometers (114.5 miles). The third stage ({{w|S-IVB}}) was a single J-2 engine burning liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. This stage was used in two parts, the first was to put the spacecraft into a stable orbit around Earth to perform a systems check and make sure the craft will be safe for going to the moon. This would usually take three orbits around Earth. As they came around the Earth they would burn the second part of the fuel, which is called a {{w|trans-lunar injection}} which put them on course for the moon. The first burn took 2 minutes 45 seconds, which put them in orbit 185 kilometers (115 miles) high.

It was first used as the launch vehicle for the {{w|Apollo 4}} mission, and it was used as the launch vehicle for most of the subsequent {{w|Apollo mission}}s (the exceptions being Apollo 7, Skylab 2-4, and the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project missions, which were launched using the smaller {{w|Saturn IB}} launch vehicle). One of the last missions of this design was the unmanned launch of {{w|Skylab}}, the U.S.'s first space station; for this payloader configuration, the Saturn V launch vehicle was officially designated the {{w|Saturn INT-21}}.

The Service Module (SM) Oxygen tanks have a note that states "This part had a ''VERY'' big problem once". This is a reference to the {{w|Apollo 13}} mission. 55 hours after launch, mission control requested the oxygen tanks contents be stirred to get an accurate reading of its contents. There was {{w|Apollo 13#Oxygen tank explosion|a large bang}}, and power fluctuated throughout the craft. NASA had to scramble to ensure the safe return of the astronauts. Needless to say, the moon landing for that mission was canceled.

The {{w|Hindenburg disaster}} is referenced in the text "The kind of air that once burned a big sky bag and people died and someone said "oh, the [humans]!". The term "big sky bag" is used as the closest approximation of {{w|zeppelin}} which is a big bag filled with a lighter-than-air gas which makes the whole contraption float. The {{w|LZ 129 Hindenburg|Hindenburg}} on the day of the disaster was filled with {{w|hydrogen}}, despite being initially designed for use with {{w|helium}}. Helium is much less prone to catching fire, but was unavailable due to a US export ban on the element. The risks seemed acceptable at the time because the Germans had a history of flying hydrogen-based passenger airships. The original quote is "Oh, the humanity!" [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54rqDh2mWA] (skip to 0:47 for the quote).

The bottom tank, which [[Randall]] describes as "...full of that stuff they burned in lights before houses had power" is highly refined kerosene, called {{w|RP-1}}, it is similar to jet fuel, burns well and is not likely to explode; unlike {{w|liquid hydrogen}}, which is much more likely to explode.

An earlier flirt with simple words is in [[547: Simple]].

The phrase "You will not go to space today" has become something of a catchphrase for xkcd — variants of it recur in the title text in four What If? comics:
*Building a jetpack out of AK-47s and converting the potential energy. [http://what-if.xkcd.com/21/ Machine Gun Jetpack]
*The one about flying on other planets (the pilot does not want to go to space today.) [http://what-if.xkcd.com/30/ Interplanetary Cessna]
*Launching into Earth orbit (if your rocket cannot hit the right "horizontal" speed, you will go to space today, and then you will quickly come back.) [http://what-if.xkcd.com/58/ Orbital Speed]
*The Pyramid of Giza (which is not nearly enough; the title text has another reference to the comic, noting that the tip of the pyramid should point towards space.) [http://what-if.xkcd.com/95/ Pyramid Energy]

==Transcript==
:US Space Team's Up Goer Five
:The only flying space car that's taken anyone to another world (explained using only the ten hundred words people use the most often)
:[A list of Saturn-V parts, top to bottom, with their "Up Goer" description follows.]
:[Launch Escape System (LES)]: Thing to help people escape really fast if there's a problem and everything is on fire so they decide not to go to space
::[LES side nozzle]: Thing to control which direction the escaping people go
::[LES fuel]: Stuff to burn to make the box with the people in it escape ''really fast''
::[LES bottom nozzles]: Place where fire comes out to help them escape
:[Apollo spacecraft.]
::[Command Module (CM)]: Part that flies around the other world and comes back home with the people in it and fall in the water.
:::[CM capsule parts]: People box, door, chairs
::[Service Module (SM)]: Part that goes along to give people air, water, computers and stuff. It comes back home with them but burns up without landing.
:::[SM oxygen tanks]: Cold air for burning (and breathing). This part had a ''VERY'' big problem once.
::[Lunar Module (LM)]: Part that flies down to the other world with two people inside
:::[LM descent stage]: Part that stays on the other world (it's still there)
:::[LM feet]: Feet that go on the ground of the other world
:[Instrument Unit]: Ring holding most of the computers
:[S-IVB third stage]: Part that falls off third (this part flew away from our world into space and hit the world we were going toward)
::[Fuel tanks]: Wet and ''very'' cold
:::[Liquid hydrogen (LH2) tank]: The kind of air that once burned a big sky bag and people died and someone said "Oh, the [humans]!" (used for burning)
:::[Liquid oxygen (LOX) tank]: The part of air you need to breathe, but not the other stuff (used for burning)
:::[Helium pressurizing tanks]: Things holding that kind of air that makes your voice funny (it's for filling up the space left when they take the cold air out to burn it.)
::[J-2 engine nozzle]: Fire comes out here
:[S-II second stage]: Part that falls off second
::[LH2 tank]: More sky bag air (for burning) (cold + wet)
::[LOX tank]: More breathing-type air (for burning) (cold + wet)
::[Tank-to-engine fuel lines]: Thing that brings in cold wet air to burn
::[J-2 engine nozzles (qty. 5)]: Fire comes out here
:[S-IC first stage]: Part that falls off first
::[LOX tank]: More breathing-type air (for burning) (cold + wet)
::[Helium pressurizing tank]: More funny voice air (for filling up space)
::[LOX fill line]: Opening for putting in cold wet air
::[RP-1 fuel tank]: This is full of that stuff they burned in lights before houses had power.It goes together with the cold air when it's time to start going up.
::[F-1 engine nozzles (qty. 5)]: Lots of fire comes out here.
:[Bottom of spacecraft]: This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

==External links==
*[http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/documents/First_Stage.pdf First Stage Fact Sheet]
*[http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/documents/Second_Stage.pdf Second Stage Fact Sheet]
*[http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/saturn_apollo/documents/Third_Stage.pdf Third Stage Fact Sheet]
*[http://splasho.com/upgoer5/ The Up-Goer Five Text Editor]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Language]]
[[Category:Physics]]

Talk:1133: Up Goer Five

2014-09-19T08:53:39Z

Orazor:

Isn't this comic essentially just saying 'rocket science: not actually as complicated as the phrase "it's not rocket science" would have us beleive'{{unsigned|203.211.80.97}}

This comic is also a celebration of what many people, presumably including former NASA employee Randall, consider the greatest technological achievement ever. {{unsigned|158.169.131.14}}

I'm surprised "ship" isn't among the most commonly used words in English. Where do these statistics come from? [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 12:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:It makes sense that "capsule" and "spaceship" (as one word) are not in the "ten hundred" most-common words (Really, "thousand" isn't on this list either?), but not "fuel" and/or "tank"? People (context: US Midwesterner) talk about filling up their cars all the time! I'd like to see the original 1,000-word list. (Also: "Up Goer"? Well, it goes up -- that's about ALL it does. Makes sense, I guess.) --BigMal27 // [[Special:Contributions/192.136.15.149|192.136.15.149]] 13:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe is Randall referring to [[wikipedia:Simplified Technical English|Simplified Technical English]]? — [[User:Ethaniel|Ethaniel]] ([[User talk:Ethaniel|talk]]) 14:09, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:There is an entry in the Simple English Wikipedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_English . The Simple English Wikipedia is interesting to browse, and challenging to write articles for. [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 14:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:: Look up Basic English. It is the 850 most used words (or rather the 850 most used words when it was invented in 1930). According to Wikipedia it is still used in some countries as the basic vocabulary to first teach in English. The list of words is here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list . It looks like this could be what he used.i[[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 17:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
::: The 850 Basic English word list includes "liquid" and "second" but does not include "world", "five" and "third" so we're still looking for the vocabulary list.
I'm inclined to think this is also a nod to 1984's {{w|Newspeak}}, and the dumbing-down effect of an ''overly'' {{w|controlled language}}. It's good to simplify (linguistic) complexity, but with that simplification of text comes a simplification of capacity, too. We push back horizons by exploring unknowns, so restricting things to a small set of knowns may be counterproductive. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:This is the very point I am trying to make time and again. Some topics cannot be correctly explained to everyone. BTW XKCD #547 had a similar point.
The comic is almost certainly using http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list or another work list like it.[[Special:Contributions/82.16.27.115|82.16.27.115]] 16:58, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The phrase in the explanation "Helium is much less prone to catching fire" brought a smile to my lips as there is literally <SIC> nothing less prone to catching fire than Helium. [[Special:Contributions/90.208.12.4|90.208.12.4]] 23:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:<s>Unfortunately some pedant has changed it to the technically correct, but much less smile-inducing "inflammable". Pitty, it made me smile too.</s> [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 23:22, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Edit: I've reverted it, because the whole edit was fraught with incorrect minor changes. 23:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Inflammable is '''wrong'''. It means the same as flammable. If you mean 'incapable of burning', the opposite of flammable/inflammable is ''nonflammable''. This is one of the subtleties of English which is avoided by using a greater number of simple words! [[Special:Contributions/87.252.61.205|87.252.61.205]] 13:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I wouldn't say Helium is least prone to catching fire. Sure, it's least prone to chemical reaction, but it is prone to nuclear fusion, which looks sort of like fire. On the other hand Iron, while it can be oxygenated, doesn't really catch fire doing that and I doubt it can chemically react in a way which would look that way. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Fire is strictly defined as the rapid oxidation of a substance in the presence of heat - nuclear fusion is transmutation, not combustion. Iron can undergo a thermite reaction which makes spectacular flying flames. Youtube should have a billion videos of thermite reactions for your perusal. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]]

:::Fine steel wool (such as 0000 grade) burns exceedingly well. A survival technique is to use flashlight batteries to make a spark in the steel wool, which then becomes an excellent fire starter.

Since the comic can't use the actual words, it took me some time to find Wikipedia's articles that describe the actual "up goer." In case there's anybody like me who wanted to know more details, I found the {{w|Apollo (spacecraft)}} and {{w|Saturn V}} articles to be very interesting and relevant. BTW, "that stuff they burned in lights before houses had power" is {{w|RP-1|highly refined kerosene}}. [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 00:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks for doing the research! I've incorporated this into the explanation. Feel free to add more if you think it needs more. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 01:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I like your additions. Much better than what I could come up with! [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 23:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be pretty nice for a day if everyone just spoke using the most used thousand words in his respective language. Just off hand, describing the band name "Led Zeppelin" would certainly be a treat--[[User:Dangerkeith3000|Dangerkeith3000]] ([[User talk:Dangerkeith3000|talk]]) 18:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Anyone who will not be fired off trying to only speak the most used thousand words for workday is working manually or not at all. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

::Or is a school teacher, or working primarily with people who have language difficulties...

I think NASA should rebrand themselves "US Space Team" it's so much cooler than the "National Aeronautics and Space Administration"! --[[User:NHSavage|NHSavage]] ([[User talk:NHSavage|talk]]) 07:39, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I have not once heard the word "goer" before this. Thousand most common? [[Special:Contributions/67.52.144.154|67.52.144.154]] 16:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

:Randall used the verb "to go" and as it's a verb, any conjugation could be considered the same word. I think that's where he got "goer" from. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:29, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
::Well, not a conjugation, a different part of speech. That's a slightly more extreme leap than a change of inflection, but probably still allowable for these purposes. [[User:Jerodast|- jerodast]] ([[User talk:Jerodast|talk]]) 15:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone has made an "Up-Goer Five Text Editor", with a link to a (the?) ten-hundred wordlist: http://splasho.com/upgoer5/. [[Special:Contributions/83.233.5.126|83.233.5.126]] 18:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm having trouble believing that lift off is not on the common word list. [[User:DruidDriver|DruidDriver]] ([[User talk:DruidDriver|talk]]) 01:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

'''On language and explaining'''

Strongly disagree with the contention at the beginning of this explanation that "This comic is a commentary on the absurdity of boiling down technical explanations for lay people..." On many occasions Randall de-jargonizes/simplifies complex ideas so that they can be understood by most anyone. Heck, he dedicates an entire blog (whatif) to it. In this interview with fivethirtyeight.com, (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/xkcd-randall-munroe-qanda-what-if/) among others, Randall explains that lay persons, given enough time, patience, and the correct guidance, should be able to understand most any scientific/technical idea.

To wit: "It’s tempting to think of technical audiences and general audiences as completely different, but I think that no matter who you’re talking to, the principles of explaining things clearly are the same. The only real difference is which things you can assume they already know[.] ... I’m always looking for ways of looking at problems — mental models — that make the answers intuitively clear. Once I’ve hit on one of those, '''I just try to explain it as simply and clearly as I can[.]'''"

Accordingly, I have altered the explanation to reflect this world view. The point of this comic is to illustrate that one should be able to explain complicated ideas to people who lack a technical background using simple language. Granted that Randall is imposing upon himself an unreasonable "ten hundred word" linguistic restriction, but I think that only goes to further his point. Unless the "explainee" is being unreasonably obtuse, the burden falls upon the shoulders of the explainer to help a non-lay audience understand. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 08:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1133: Up Goer Five

2014-09-19T08:53:14Z

Orazor:

Isn't this comic essentially just saying 'rocket science: not actually as complicated as the phrase "it's not rocket science" would have us beleive'{{unsigned|203.211.80.97}}

This comic is also a celebration of what many people, presumably including former NASA employee Randall, consider the greatest technological achievement ever. {{unsigned|158.169.131.14}}

I'm surprised "ship" isn't among the most commonly used words in English. Where do these statistics come from? [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]] 12:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:It makes sense that "capsule" and "spaceship" (as one word) are not in the "ten hundred" most-common words (Really, "thousand" isn't on this list either?), but not "fuel" and/or "tank"? People (context: US Midwesterner) talk about filling up their cars all the time! I'd like to see the original 1,000-word list. (Also: "Up Goer"? Well, it goes up -- that's about ALL it does. Makes sense, I guess.) --BigMal27 // [[Special:Contributions/192.136.15.149|192.136.15.149]] 13:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe is Randall referring to [[wikipedia:Simplified Technical English|Simplified Technical English]]? — [[User:Ethaniel|Ethaniel]] ([[User talk:Ethaniel|talk]]) 14:09, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:There is an entry in the Simple English Wikipedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_English . The Simple English Wikipedia is interesting to browse, and challenging to write articles for. [[User:J-beda|J-beda]] ([[User talk:J-beda|talk]]) 14:24, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:: Look up Basic English. It is the 850 most used words (or rather the 850 most used words when it was invented in 1930). According to Wikipedia it is still used in some countries as the basic vocabulary to first teach in English. The list of words is here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list . It looks like this could be what he used.i[[User:Carewolf|Carewolf]] ([[User talk:Carewolf|talk]]) 17:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
::: The 850 Basic English word list includes "liquid" and "second" but does not include "world", "five" and "third" so we're still looking for the vocabulary list.
I'm inclined to think this is also a nod to 1984's {{w|Newspeak}}, and the dumbing-down effect of an ''overly'' {{w|controlled language}}. It's good to simplify (linguistic) complexity, but with that simplification of text comes a simplification of capacity, too. We push back horizons by exploring unknowns, so restricting things to a small set of knowns may be counterproductive. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 15:13, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
:This is the very point I am trying to make time and again. Some topics cannot be correctly explained to everyone. BTW XKCD #547 had a similar point.
The comic is almost certainly using http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list or another work list like it.[[Special:Contributions/82.16.27.115|82.16.27.115]] 16:58, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The phrase in the explanation "Helium is much less prone to catching fire" brought a smile to my lips as there is literally <SIC> nothing less prone to catching fire than Helium. [[Special:Contributions/90.208.12.4|90.208.12.4]] 23:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:<s>Unfortunately some pedant has changed it to the technically correct, but much less smile-inducing "inflammable". Pitty, it made me smile too.</s> [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 23:22, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Edit: I've reverted it, because the whole edit was fraught with incorrect minor changes. 23:27, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

:Inflammable is '''wrong'''. It means the same as flammable. If you mean 'incapable of burning', the opposite of flammable/inflammable is ''nonflammable''. This is one of the subtleties of English which is avoided by using a greater number of simple words! [[Special:Contributions/87.252.61.205|87.252.61.205]] 13:01, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I wouldn't say Helium is least prone to catching fire. Sure, it's least prone to chemical reaction, but it is prone to nuclear fusion, which looks sort of like fire. On the other hand Iron, while it can be oxygenated, doesn't really catch fire doing that and I doubt it can chemically react in a way which would look that way. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

:::Fire is strictly defined as the rapid oxidation of a substance in the presence of heat - nuclear fusion is transmutation, not combustion. Iron can undergo a thermite reaction which makes spectacular flying flames. Youtube should have a billion videos of thermite reactions for your perusal. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]][[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>(talk)</tt>]]

:::Fine steel wool (such as 0000 grade) burns exceedingly well. A survival technique is to use flashlight batteries to make a spark in the steel wool, which then becomes an excellent fire starter.

Since the comic can't use the actual words, it took me some time to find Wikipedia's articles that describe the actual "up goer." In case there's anybody like me who wanted to know more details, I found the {{w|Apollo (spacecraft)}} and {{w|Saturn V}} articles to be very interesting and relevant. BTW, "that stuff they burned in lights before houses had power" is {{w|RP-1|highly refined kerosene}}. [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 00:34, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks for doing the research! I've incorporated this into the explanation. Feel free to add more if you think it needs more. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 01:33, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

::I like your additions. Much better than what I could come up with! [[User:S|S]] ([[User talk:S|talk]]) 23:44, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be pretty nice for a day if everyone just spoke using the most used thousand words in his respective language. Just off hand, describing the band name "Led Zeppelin" would certainly be a treat--[[User:Dangerkeith3000|Dangerkeith3000]] ([[User talk:Dangerkeith3000|talk]]) 18:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

:Anyone who will not be fired off trying to only speak the most used thousand words for workday is working manually or not at all. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:42, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

::Or is a school teacher, or working primarily with people who have language difficulties...

I think NASA should rebrand themselves "US Space Team" it's so much cooler than the "National Aeronautics and Space Administration"! --[[User:NHSavage|NHSavage]] ([[User talk:NHSavage|talk]]) 07:39, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

I have not once heard the word "goer" before this. Thousand most common? [[Special:Contributions/67.52.144.154|67.52.144.154]] 16:22, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

:Randall used the verb "to go" and as it's a verb, any conjugation could be considered the same word. I think that's where he got "goer" from. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:29, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
::Well, not a conjugation, a different part of speech. That's a slightly more extreme leap than a change of inflection, but probably still allowable for these purposes. [[User:Jerodast|- jerodast]] ([[User talk:Jerodast|talk]]) 15:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Someone has made an "Up-Goer Five Text Editor", with a link to a (the?) ten-hundred wordlist: http://splasho.com/upgoer5/. [[Special:Contributions/83.233.5.126|83.233.5.126]] 18:46, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm having trouble believing that lift off is not on the common word list. [[User:DruidDriver|DruidDriver]] ([[User talk:DruidDriver|talk]]) 01:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

'''On language and exlaining'''

Strongly disagree with the contention at the beginning of this explanation that "This comic is a commentary on the absurdity of boiling down technical explanations for lay people..." On many occasions Randall de-jargonizes/simplifies complex ideas so that they can be understood by most anyone. Heck, he dedicates an entire blog (whatif) to it. In this interview with fivethirtyeight.com, (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/xkcd-randall-munroe-qanda-what-if/) among others, Randall explains that lay persons, given enough time, patience, and the correct guidance, should be able to understand most any scientific/technical idea.

To wit: "It’s tempting to think of technical audiences and general audiences as completely different, but I think that no matter who you’re talking to, the principles of explaining things clearly are the same. The only real difference is which things you can assume they already know[.] ... I’m always looking for ways of looking at problems — mental models — that make the answers intuitively clear. Once I’ve hit on one of those, '''I just try to explain it as simply and clearly as I can[.]'''"

Accordingly, I have altered the explanation to reflect this world view. The point of this comic is to illustrate that one should be able to explain complicated ideas to people who lack a technical background using simple language. Granted that Randall is imposing upon himself an unreasonable "ten hundred word" linguistic restriction, but I think that only goes to further his point. Unless the "explainee" is being unreasonably obtuse, the burden falls upon the shoulders of the explainer to help a non-lay audience understand. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 08:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:990: Plastic Bags

2014-08-12T11:00:57Z

Orazor:

This time the lesson I learned came mostly from alt-text. The high we can experience from helping the world can last for days indeed, way better and healthier then drugs, want to try it? - e-inspired [[Special:Contributions/98.211.199.84|98.211.199.84]] 15:45, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
:You make it sound like it's an either/or choice. [[Special:Contributions/69.207.73.11|69.207.73.11]] 08:02, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

As a former service cashier/bag filler I can confirm that there is a counterpoint, customers with reusable bags who will absolutely refuse to use any plastic bags whatsoever, no matter how ridiculously overful their bags become, and no matter how much of a bad idea it might be ("Yes, sure, lets put your hot chicken in with the ice cream, along with the crusty laundry powder box on top of the soft fruit! I can't see how this could possibly go wrong!").[[User:Pennpenn|Pennpenn]] ([[User talk:Pennpenn|talk]]) 04:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

The comic, and to even greater degree its explanation, is really confusing for a non-American like myself. Some "stupid" questions about shopping groceries in the U.S.:
* Don't customers bag their own groceries?
* Are plastic bags for free (for the customer)?
* In that case, what is the incentive for the practice in the comic?
* Do you get a rebate if you bring your own bag(s) instead?
* If so, why don't simply charge for the bags provided by the store?
To put this in perspective: In Sweden, and I think most of the EU, plastic bags are the single most profitable commodity in a store. They sell for around 25 cents and are bought by the store for maybe 5 cents so the margin would be around 400%. The customer gets no help packing them (all cash desks have two compartments so you pack while the next customer's items fill the other compartment). Thus, the salesman wants to sell bags and often asks "Do you need a bag?" (but is polite enough not to try to sell more bags than necessary). The customer, on the other hand, wants to fill the bags maximally, and often brings his own bags.

Could someone with global insights on packing customs improve the explanation, to make it work internationally? [[User:Mumiemonstret|Mumiemonstret]] ([[User talk:Mumiemonstret|talk]]) 15:48, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
:In most stores in the US, the cashier bags your goods. A handful of grocery stores have the customers bag their own items. Bags are free for the customer. Some stores will give a small refund if you bring in reusable bags. It's not really a "practice" in the sense of a formalized policy to use as many bags as possible. But some cashiers do seem to have a tendency to use excess bags. I think it's because it's often easier to get another bag than to rearrange items to fit more into the bag, plus the desire to avoid overloading them. So, it's more laziness than a formal practice [[User:CVictoria|CVictoria]] ([[User talk:CVictoria|talk]]) 18:09, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

I addressed the complaint about the 5 cent bags and explained the title text. Is it good now?[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.152|173.245.56.152]] 05:36, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I've done my best to completely overhaul the explanation, which a particular eye towards explaining our "peculiar institution" of providing plastic bags (and baggers) in the U.S. If something doesn't seem to make sense or merits additional explanation, please let me know. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 11:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

990: Plastic Bags

2014-08-12T10:59:18Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 990
| date = December 14, 2011
| title = Plastic Bags
| image = plastic_bags.png
| titletext = The high I feel when I actually remember to bring my reusable bags to the store--and take them inside rather than leaving them in the parked car--can last for days.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|Where did the "save five cents" come from? This whole paragraph needs some tweaking. The entire explain needs a rework.}}

In the United States, most {{w|grocery stores}} provide {{w|plastic shopping bag|plastic bags}} for free, as well as a "bagger," whose only job is to bag the groceries (although sometimes this function is performed by the cashier). An exception to this rule migh be "extreme discount" stores, such as Aldi's. Customers are rarely, if ever, expected to bag their own groceries, even if they bring a reusable bag. It follows that sometimes a bagger might become a bit overzealous and use too many bags for too few products. This comic is a mocking this tendency to go overboard, which is incredibly wasteful. The last frame takes this practice to its absurd and frustrating end, showing a {{w|reusable bag}} that has been double bagged. Exactly why bags are provided is probably a topic best left to academic discussion, but suffice to say that it is the state of the industry in the U.S. Perhaps grocery chains are concerned that if they did not provide free plastic bags, customers would defect, instead, to a competitor. Most shoppers view plastic bags and bagging by the store as givens.

In some states or jurisdictions (for example, Washington, DC as of 2010), customers are charged a $0.05 tax (by the state/jurisdiction and NOT by the grocery store) for each plastic bag, and receive an equivalent rebate for each reusable bag. While today it is accepted as a fact of life, the tax angered many at its adoption, even causing some to claim that they would do their shopping in Virginia instead, driving 5 or 10 miles to save 5 or 10 cents (this would address the theme of wasting money to save a trivial amount, addressed by Randall in an earlier comic). The tax has since become accepted as a fact of life, and has been quite successful at its initial goal of reducing the amount of bags discarded in area rivers and streams.

The title text refers to the idea that while many attempt to make the environmentally-conscious decision to bag their groceries with {{w|reusable bags,}} thereby keeping plastic bags out of landfills, sometimes they forget to bring their bags with them from the car, or even leave the bags at home altogether. Randall is commenting on the sense of euophoria he derives from a relatively simple task: remembering to bring the reusable bag to the grocery store (rather than the good feeling from helping clean up the environment).

==Transcript==
::Fun Fact: Stores have a competition to see who can spread your items across the most plastic shopping bags.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[5 items placed in a single bag; heaviest item placed at the bottom.]
:Shopper: Thanks!

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Same items; heaviest item now placed in separate bag.]
:Shopper: Oh, that's easier to carry.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Heavy item is now double bagged.]
:Shopper: Double-bagging the big stuff makes sense...

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[The other 4 items are now split into 2 separate bags.]
:Shopper: That's a bit wasteful...

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[The 2 separate bags are now double bagged.]
:Shopper: You just put five items in six bags.

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Every item is now in its own, double-bagged bag.]
:Shopper: OK! I give up! I'll buy a reusable bag!

:Bag Packer: Here you go!
:[Reusable bag is double-bagged.]
:Shopper: Augh!

{{comic discussion}}

Talk:983: Privacy

2014-08-12T09:56:32Z

Orazor:

If your roommate's in a raid, he's not gonna turn around and notice you shacking up any time soon. World of Warcraft is serious business. '''[[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 06:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Is the transcript the original one? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.45|108.162.216.45]] 21:51, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
:No, the name Cueball is never mentioned by Randall. But in general it is close to the original one at all.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:23, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how the tour for visiting Nelson Mandela could be interpreted as suggesting that Nelson Mandela was in the rare book collection and the tour was going to visit him - that just seems ridiculous. It's pretty clear that Nelson Mandela's visiting the library. --[[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.143|199.27.130.143]] 13:38, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
:Agreed. I have fixed the entry to reflect the same. It's worth noting that you could have done it first, and explained your edit here. This is, after all, a wiki editable by anyone. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

983: Privacy

2014-08-12T09:54:43Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 983
| date = November 28, 2011
| title = Privacy
| image = privacy.png
| titletext = Eventual headline: 'University Researchers Create Life in Lab! Darkness, Faulty Condoms Blamed.'
}}

==Explanation==
This comic is about [[Cueball]] and [[Megan]] attempting to find some privacy to "hook up", which is slang for engaging in sexual activity.

They start by going to a dorm, supposedly Cueball's; however, the door is locked. They try Megan's dorm next, but Megan's roomate is currently playing a video game and is "in a {{w|Raid_(gaming)|raid}}", which is a phrase used in {{w|World of Warcraft}} and other {{w|Massively multiplayer online role-playing game|Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games}} or MMORPGs. A Raid is a large gathering of players that work together to defeat a difficult enemy.

The Rare book collection in the library in frame three is usually deserted, so it would be perfect for sexual activity. However, it is currently occupied by a visiting {{w|Nelson Mandela}}, who is on a tour of the school.

Next they try an accelerator tunnel that is in use and thus locked. This is a normal safety feature in particle accelerators in order to protect researchers from being exposed to potentially dangerous radiation from the particle beam, simply by being near the accelerator while it is in use.

Then they try a beaver lodge. A beaver lodge is usually only accessible from underwater and during winter, the entrances are even further protected by a solid sheet of ice. Note that the final level of the Nintendo 64 game [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjo-Kazooie Banjo-Kazooie] includes a beaver's living space resembling the one shown. In the game, the lodge is only accessible during the winter phase, when the player must swim from a hole in the ice to the underwater entrance.

With our current understanding of physics, there is neither the possibility of {{w|hyperspace}} existing, nor the possibility of getting there quickly.

The title text indicates that the two found privacy for sex in the lab, but inadvertently got Megan pregnant. This is a pun on news titles about scientists who have created synthetic life in the lab. This eventual headline appears in a few [[1037: Umwelt]] frames as "Scientists Create Life In Lab".

The comic [[658: Orbitals]] is similar.

==Transcript==
:Dorm:
:[An incredibly libidinous, extremely attractive couple try and enter one person's dorm room.]
:Locked.

:Other Dorm:
:[The same couple in the other person's dorm room, where the roommate is sitting at a computer playing an MMO.]
:Roommate: I'll be done Tuesday.
:Roommate in raid

:Library Rare Book Collection:
:[Libidinous couple staring inside the room from outside. Nelson Mandela and other university workers inside the room, looking at some extremely expensive items.]
:Occupied by tour for visiting Nelson Mandela

:Accelerator Tunnel:
:[Couple stares at a heavy, imposing door denying them entry.]
:Sealed while beam is in operation.

:Beaver Lodge:
:[Couple attempting to enter an occupied beaver lodge.]
:Frozen over for winter to keep out predators; only accessible via underwater entrance.

:Hyperspace:
:[Couple in front of a number of highly advanced physics textbooks.]
:Cueball: Are you ''sure?''
:Ruled out by current understanding of physics.

:College Law #27:
:The availability of private space is inversely proportional to the desirability of the hookup.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Sex]]
[[Category:Video games]]
[[Category:Physics]]

959: Caroling

2014-08-01T07:52:03Z

Orazor: /* Trivia */

{{comic
| number = 959
| date = October 3, 2011
| title = Caroling
| image = caroling.png
| titletext = For a thousand generations we vowed never to forget how his soldiers feasted on our brother Stephen.
}}

==Explanation==
Here are the lyrics for the first verse of the Christmas Carol, "{{w|Good King Wenceslas}}"

:''Good King Wenceslas looked out, on the Feast of Stephen,''
:''When the snow lay round about, deep and crisp and even;''
:''Brightly shone the moon that night, tho' the frost was cruel,''
:''When a poor man came in sight, gath'ring winter fuel.''

While not a king, {{w|Wenceslaus I, Duke of Bohemia}} is considered a martyr and a saint. Far from being responsible for any massacre, he protected his subjects from external dominance, and is still a national hero to the Czech people. [[Black Hat]] is supplying {{w|disinformation}} to unsuspecting carolers in order to silence them.

The title text references "the {{w|St. Stephen's Day|Feast of Stephen}}" which is also known as the "Feast of St. Stephen" or "St. Stephen's Day", which is a holiday celebrated on 26 or 27 December, depending on the Western or Eastern church respectively. It is not actually a feast that involved eating a person named Stephen, instead a celebration of the Saint named Stephen.

==Transcript==
:[Three people stand together singing Christmas carols.]
:Carolers (in unison): Good king Wenceslas looked out on the—

:[Black Hat leans out of an above ground window.]
:Black Hat: King Wenceslas massacred my people.

:[The carolers stand in silence.]

==Trivia==

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Black Hat]]
[[Category:Music]]

Talk:959: Caroling

2014-08-01T07:50:08Z

Orazor:

9 months until I can start pulling this out on carolers again. Gaaaah, the waaait. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|purple|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 08:33, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I removed the section about Wenceslas being posthomously named king; the reference that is used to support this claim in the Wikipedia article does not, in fact, do so. The claim is not repeated anywhere else that I can see. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 21:16, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the trivia section arguing that Wenceslas might not have been such a great guy after all. There is no proof offered, and the comment is really only speculation, and not actual trivia. If whoever added this section can offer some concrete evidence, then maybe it would be merited. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 07:50, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:956: Sharing

2014-08-01T07:22:43Z

Orazor:

- What can we learn from this? -
I've learned that DRM does not work (Thank you Mr. XKCD for reminding us). As with Creative Commons used by Mr. XKCD each idea should be shared as freely as possible, if it is thought out well and proves helpful to others, we will reward the author of such a great idea with riches beyond their wildest dreams (such as through Movie and Marketing rights owned by madam J.K. Rowling to got our children to read again). - [[User:E-inspired|E-inspired]] ([[User talk:E-inspired|talk]]) 13:55, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

What is it about the digital medium that makes people feel that the hard work of others should be available to them for free? We all agree that it is wrong to steal a (physical) book from a bookstore. However, now that the tablet has been invented, authors should give away their hard work for free and write on a volunteer basis as a public service? Certainly there are problems to be resolved when Apple and Amazon are profiting disproportionately from digital sales (as compared to authors and artists), however exploitation of artists by publishers is not a new phenomenon and was never an issue for the hacker set until entertainment went digital and they had access to free stuff. There are those on-line who think that the internet should offer-up everything for free but this attitude forgets that there is a cost to creating art and if that price is not paid, far fewer art will be created.. JB. [[Special:Contributions/74.213.186.41|74.213.186.41]] 12:21, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

To JB.: I think the real problem here is not the question weather or not you have to pay something in the first place, but the fact that even if you bought an e-book you are forced to read it with the Kindle. It's not like stealing a book, it's like wanting to put it on another bookshelf, read it in another room or with a new set of glasses. If you own a printed copy you can carry it around, take it on vacation, copy your favorite page and hang it on the wall, resell it at a garage sale or yes, lend it to a friend. Here the tree is prevented from doing so by DRM, even though it owns the book. (note that it says "lending is not enabled" not "copying")
Like in comic #488 which is about the disadvantages of legally buying digital music, it shows that often with these kind of digital media you have not the same possibilities and rights you are used to from "real" books and CDs, but actually less.
[[Special:Contributions/84.137.246.233|84.137.246.233]] 13:27, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

A question: Who is Randall referring to by naming "Mike" in the fifth panel? I thought it alluded to Mike the sentient super computer from Robert Heinlein's ''The Moon is a Harsh Mistress'', but I'm curious as to other interpretations. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.214.83|108.162.214.83]] 09:26, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
:I'm assuming it is some kid they know called 'Mike', but perhaps my powers of deduction aren't as fearsome as I think. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.223|108.162.219.223]] 23:17, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

A tree with a USB port? Maybe we should mention [http://deaddrops.com/ dead drops] somewhere? Wow, and I just found this: [http://deadtreedrop.derhess.de/index_en.html Dead Tree Drop], I don't know if it's inspired by xkcd, but it's an awesome idea :D [[User:Klamann|Klamann]] ([[User talk:Klamann|talk]]) 12:42, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I can see what the strip is trying to do, but [http://www.teleread.com/drm/xkcd-giving-tree-strip-misses-drm-point/ the comparison to the original book really kind of misses the point]. The tree in Silverstein's book gave ''of itself'' to the kid. Unless the tree is also Shel Silverstein, that book doesn't belong to it to give ''or'' lend. (And what's more, the book was not even ''available'' for Kindle until Feb 18, 2014, two and a half years after the strip was posted!) —[[User:Robotech|Robotech]] ([[User talk:Robotech|talk]]) 03:27, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

:If you'll pardon the pun, I think that by taking this strip so literally you are missing the forest for the trees. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 07:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Talk:947: Investing

2014-07-30T13:43:38Z

Orazor:

Accounting for inflation, you'll probably end up losing money if you're just relying on bank interest for income. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 10:04, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
:Losing money compared to what? Even if inflation is 3%, getting 2% interest in a bank is better than getting 0% interest under your mattress... [[Special:Contributions/72.169.224.98|72.169.224.98]] 14:09, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

::Losing money compared to $1 spending power from the start date to $1 spending power at the end date, regardless of how much interest is earned, you still can't buy the same amount of stuff. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]_a ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 16:00, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

:::Actually, putting money in the bank, you lose more in inflation than you gain in interest. It's really a scam. However, by putting it under your mattress, you're taking it out of circulation and, in effect, increasing its value through deflation. It really IS a better alternative. At least until you put it back into circulation, then the deflation is undone but, by then, it's no longer in your hands so what the hell do you care?[[Special:Contributions/76.29.225.28|76.29.225.28]] 06:01, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

:::: Unless you own a bank, it's unlikely that the quantity of money you're able to store in your mattress will have any effect on the rate of inflation. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.61|173.245.56.61]] 20:38, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

::An alternative to investing in a bank account is to do with your money what the bank intends to do with your money, which is to loan it to other people at a higher interest rate, higher than the rate of inflation. Of course, some fraction of these loans will never be repaid, and you can't simply withdraw your money whenever you feel like it, so this type of scheme works better if you have tons of money to begin with-- more than just a thousand dollars seed money.[[Special:Contributions/63.155.139.54|63.155.139.54]] 14:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

:::You don't really have to have the money. You just have to be buddy-buddy with the Fed. Banks are allowed to lend out ten times more money than they actually have.[[Special:Contributions/76.29.225.28|76.29.225.28]] 06:01, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

:::I see! So in order to avoid having to use a bank, you should... become a bank! ...oh.--[[Special:Contributions/199.244.214.110|199.244.214.110]] 20:42, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

::::Banks don't have the luxury of being able to put all their money in insured term deposits. [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 03:08, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Compound interest is actually extremely powerful, if you have enough interest and enough time. 10% interest (like what you'd get from a good mutual fund) over 30 years (a little under the length of an average working career) gives a pretty impressive return. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.47}}
:Exactly. The only reason the return here is unimpressive is the ridiculously low interest rate that won't even outpace inflation. With a good rate of return (10-15%), compound interest can work for you. I don't like Randall's implication that compound interest is over-hyped; it's not magical, but it is extremely powerful. [[User:NealCruco|NealCruco]] ([[User talk:NealCruco|talk]]) 16:14, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
::I assume it may differ from country to country but currently most banks here offer even less than 2%. It's a bit depressing when I think it was double that about 5 years ago. [[User:Tharkon|Tharkon]] ([[User talk:Tharkon|talk]]) 01:35, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Banks are not typically places one would look for investment purposes. Sure, it's fine to squirrel some money away in a savings account or other high(er)-liquidity vehicle. The point here is that if you are going to invest in any meaningful way, then you have to resign yourself to the fact that your money will become more illiquid, and therefore less accessible. So, investing in a mutual fund or workplace-friendly 401(k) is actually a really great way to tap into the "power" of compound interest. Start off investing in high-risk index funds (usually tracking the S&P 500 or other small-to-medium sized business aggregator). You should be making something like 10-15% y-o-y at least. Then move into bonds and treasury bills (lower return but safer) as you get closer to retirement. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 13:43, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:886: Craigslist Apartments

2014-07-22T12:20:07Z

Orazor:

The house with a house inside may be a reference to the tesseracted, 4D house from Robert Heinlein's "-And He Built A Crooked House." {{unsigned ip|‎173.225.52.131}}

I would have thought the klein stairs with the intense heat in short bursts may be a reference to a research fusion reactor. 'Net searches seem to suggest there may be connections between plasma behaviour and klein bottle mathematics. {{unsigned ip|108.162.250.5}}

The Minotaur sounds like a reference to Doctor Who The God Complex. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.201|173.245.52.201]] 05:05, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

The closet full of board games which play themselves could be a reference to the movie Jumanji.
Can't remember a tub full of blood from that movie, though, however surely pets won't survive long. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.180|173.245.53.180]] 21:13, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

I explained the third one, but I have no idea about the lack of floor. Because of this and others, I added an 'Incomplete' tag with the appropriate reason. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.206|108.162.212.206]] 03:32, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

I believe that the "616" "$1616" is a reference to the number of the beast. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.90|173.245.54.90]] 18:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
:The number of the beast is 666. Not 616. [[User:NealCruco|NealCruco]] ([[User talk:NealCruco|talk]]) 01:54, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
::It sounds like you must have some good information to make that statement so plainly - maybe you should correct the appropriate section on Wikipedia ({{w|Number_of_the_beast#616}}) and add your references/citations. It would seem several sources (including the oldest known ''"version"'' of the text) indicates '616' as a "variant" [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 12:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
I motion to close/complete this one. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.65|199.27.128.65]] 17:57, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the house near Pripyat explanation, "the glass facade references radioactive glassy minerals created by the explosion" seems to be conflating the Corium produced at Chernobyl with the Trinitite produced by nuclear explosion at Alamogordo. There was a steam explosion at Chernobyl, but the Corium was produced by the heat of the subsequent meltdown, not by the force of the explosion. The current explanation also includes, "It may also be the nuclear facility itself, depending on interpretation; ...". It seems clear to me that the apartment for rent is the nuclear facility itself, and not some house in Pripyat, which is "5-min drive" away; why else the "Three floors w/pool, rooftop garden, beautiful glass facade". -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.43|108.162.219.43]] 12:03, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
:Agreed. I have edited to reflect the same, and have also noted the likelihood that the "pool" referenced is probably temporary containment for spent nuclear fuel. Not so sure about the "3-level" thing, though. My knowledge of nuclear power plant design is extremely limited. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 12:20, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Any idea what 1386153 means? Lucas often 'hid' 1138 everywhere, so could this be part of it? Other thoughts:
* [http://www.colorhexa.com/8a0699 RGB (138,6,153) is purple].
* It isn't prime
* It isn't [https://oeis.org/A082897 totient]
— [[User:Fluffy Buzzard|Fluffy Buzzard]] ([[User talk:Fluffy Buzzard|talk]]) 15:26, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

886: Craigslist Apartments

2014-07-22T12:17:34Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 886
| date = April 15, 2011
| title = Craigslist Apartments
| image = craigslist apartments.png
| titletext = $1600 / 1386153BR 3BATH, MODERN SLIDING DOORS, GUEST ROOMS, GARBAGE DISPOSAL. FREE MANDATORY PARKING (ENFORCED). CONVENIENT TO ALDERAAN.
}}

==Explanation==
First and foremost, just like all {{w|Craigslist}} apartment postings, all of these posts are in all caps and some of the posts are re-posted several times, which is very annoying, but must work, otherwise the agents would not do it. Additionally, lots of posts use lots of tildes, exclamation points or asterisks as above to set their posts apart from others.

'''BR''' means bedroom, e.g. 3BR means that apartment has 3 bedrooms (common measurement of apartment size).

*'''$1600 / 2BR <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> Hardwood floors, utilities included. Cats OK, limit one per square foot.'''
:This ad is aimed at "crazy cat ladies/bachelors" who compulsively keep a number of animals much greater than is appropriate to the living space.

*'''$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****'''
:This is the first repetition of an entry that appears multiple times. It is also extremely generic, telling the reader little useful about the house. The square house might be a garage, or just a regular square house. Beside that, most houses have a door in front, there's nothing special about a door.

*'''$2300 / 3BR !!!!!!!! Elegant apartment permanently lit by strobe light!!!! No floor.'''
:A strobe light is a very bright light that, instead of remaining on, flashes very quickly. It's frequently used in parties. Living in an apartment with a constant strobe light might degrade the tenant's health. Many lights with faulty wiring flicker repeatedly, producing a strobe effect; therefore, the listing may be a cheery spin on an apartment with bad wiring. Also, the stated lack of a floor would probably make standing (and indeed living) in the apartment somewhat difficult.
:

*'''$980 / 1BR New "hammock"-style dwelling. Water and heat free from same dispenser. Viking landlord.'''
:This seems to be a post to live as an oarsman on a {{w|Viking ship}}. The water and heat presumably both come from the sky, in the form of rain and sunlight.

*'''$1550 / 2BR (one inside the other). Has running water, in a sense. Free heat in short, intense bursts. Klein stairs.'''
:This place is possibly a reference to {{w|Klein geometry}}.

*'''$3200 / 1BR W/trimmed carpet and pert fixtures. Previous tenants clean. Call now, want you inside. $120/night (no animals)'''
:This is probably a disguised "adult services" (sex) posting, with references to trimmed pubic hair, an attractive body, and a lack of {{w|Sexually transmitted disease|STD}}s. Craigslist no longer allows posts for this, because prostitution is illegal in most places in the US. This post tries to evade the adult services ban by pretending to be something else.

*'''$2100 / 3BR on scenic Ash Tree Lane. Builder unknown; house has always existed. Walls shift; center of house may contain minotaur.'''
:The {{w|Minotaur}} house is a reference to the Labyrinth and Minotaur on Crete from ancient Greek mythology, as well as the novel ''{{w|House of Leaves}}''.

*'''$600 / 5BR Three floors w/pool, rooftop garden, beautiful glass facade, no catch, 5-min drive to historic Pripyat.'''
:This is a reference to the {{w|Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant}}, located near to the town of {{w|Pripyat}}, in northern Ukraine. The NPP is a 3-level structure, and contains a pool for temporary spent nuclear fuel storage. The rooftop now has plants growing on it after years of neglect, and the glass facade references radioactive glassy minerals created by the explosion.

*'''$7100 / 60BR Sleek modern w/extreme running water. Previous tenants may resist entry. Contains all new wiring and is a submarine.'''
:This house is a submarine, as indicated by the advertisement, presumably operated by the navy. The "previous tenants", being members of the armed forces, would undoubtedly resist entry of someone attempting to board their submarine. The sixty bedrooms refers to the crew members' bunks on board the ship, which are in extremely tight quarters and can be very uncomfortable. This may also be a reference to [[496: Secretary: Part 3]], which makes reference to [[Black Hat]] stealing a submarine - apparently this is him trying to get rid of it.

*'''$1616 / 3BR + 2Bath, tub full of blood. Closet full of board games which play themselves. Pets OK but won't survive long.'''
:The last one on the list does not seem to be a direct scary movie reference, but a horror movie reference in general.

The title text (''$1600 / 1386153BR 3bath, modern sliding doors, guest rooms, garbage disposal. Free mandatory parking (enforced). Convenient to Alderaan.'') is a reference to the {{w|Death Star}} in ''Star Wars''. {{w|Alderaan}} is the home planet of {{w|Princess Leia}}, which was obliterated by the Death Star. Mandatory parking references the tractor beams used to drag nearby ships (such as the Millennium Falcon) into the base. It seems somewhat inconvenient that this "apartment" has over a million bedrooms but only three bathrooms.

==Transcript==
:[The comic is a single panel, presented as an apartment search.]
:[Title bar.]
:All apartments
:Search for: [_______] in: All apartments ( ) Title only (*) Entire post Search
:Rent: [Min] [Max] 0+ BR [ ] Cats [ ] Dogs [ ] Has image
:[Date bar.]
:Fri Apr 15
:[Begin the apartment listings.]
:$1600 / 2BR <nowiki>~~~</nowiki> Hardwood floors, utilities included. Cats ok, limit one per square foot.
:$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****
:$2300 / 3BR !!!!!!!! Elegant apartment permanently lit by strobe light!!!! No floor.
:$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****
:$980 / 1BR New "hammock"-style dwelling. Water and heat free from same dispenser. Viking landlord.
:$1550 / 2BR (one inside the other). Has running water, in a sense. Free heat in short, intense bursts. Klein stairs.
:$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****
:$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****
:$3200 / 1BR W/trimmed carpet and pert fixtures. Previous tenants clean. Call now, want you inside. $120/night (no animals)
:$2100 / 3BR on scenic Ash Tree Lane. Builder unknown; house has always existed. Walls shift; center of house may contain minotaur.
:$1100 / **** GREAT DEAL SQUARE HOUSE DOOR IN FRONT!!! ****
:$600 / 5BR Three floors w/pool, rooftop garden, beautiful glass facade, no catch, 5-min drive to historic Pripyat.
:$7100 / 60BR Sleek modern w/extreme running water. Previous tenants may resist entry. Contains all new wiring and is a submarine.
:$1616 / 3BR + 2Bath, tub full of blood. Closet full of board games which play themselves. Pets ok but won't survive long.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics with color]]

Talk:870: Advertising

2014-07-21T13:37:43Z

Orazor:

But the Geico commercial doesn't say up to, it says 15% or more... ~Jfreund
:That may depend on your region. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.30|108.162.216.30]] 03:24, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
:Saying that something "could save you 15% or more" and saying it "could save you ''up to'' 15% or more" are the same thing. Both statements take into account the very real possibility that some percentage less than 15 could be saved.[[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 13:37, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Not to mention that Geico says "'''Could''' save you..." (In combination with "up to", the "could" should be "will".) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 03:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

A justification for "The more you buy, the more you save" is that the more discounted products you buy, the more money you save as opposed to buying them at list price. For things we will buy anyway (e.g. food), it may be true. --[[User:Troy0|Troy0]] ([[User talk:Troy0|talk]]) 20:01, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

868: Nolan Chart

2014-07-21T13:27:37Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 868
| date = March 4, 2011
| title = Nolan Chart
| image = nolan chart.png
| titletext = Also in the right quadrant are NFPA-compliant chemical manufacturers and Sir Charles Wheatstone. Sharing the top with the internet libertarians are Nate Silver and several politically-active kite designers.
}}

==Explanation==
The [http://www.nolanchart.com Nolan Chart] is a visual representation of the political spectrum that measures not only liberal vs conservative tendencies but also libertarian and statist tendencies. In this comic, it is taken to a different end. One one side are both Democrats and Republicans and on the other side is baseball fans. In the typical Nolan Chart, Libertarians are in the top quadrant, but in this one "Internet Libertarians" take the spot because they love the Nolan Charts (that are found online) and have a lot of political opinions.

In the image text, the NFPA-compliant chemical manufacturers are mentioned because of [http://ehs.okstate.edu/modules/hazcom/nfpadia2.gif this diagram]. Sir Charles Wheatstone was the inventor of the Wheatstone bridge, which is also {{w|File:Wheatstonebridge.svg|diamond-shaped}}. Lastly, the image text references Nate Silver, who previously worked for Baseball Prospectus and now writes a data-driven political and sports blog called Five Thirty Eight for ESPN. He is both a lover of diamond-shaped diagrams and has political opinions.

==Transcript==
:[Diamond-shaped four-panel diagram.]
:[Top panel labeled "internet libertarians".]
:[Left panel labeled "Democrats, Republicans".]
:[Bottom panel labeled "other".]
:[Right panel labeled "baseball fans".]
:[Axis increasing in the upper-left direction labeled "political opinions".]
:[Axis increasing in the upper-right direction labeled "love of diamond-shaped diagrams".]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Charts]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Talk:850: World According to Americans

2014-07-21T12:25:05Z

Orazor:

NB: Paupa (sic!) New Guinea
[[User:Leob|Leob]] ([[User talk:Leob|talk]]) 20:10, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

:You're right, there's a typo in the comic! Good catch ;) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:10, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

98% of American's would only be able to locate about 4 countries so this is way too generous ~JFreund

@JFreund: That's not true... I'm a seventh grader who can't stand geography for the life of me, yet I can name a good twenty or so.
And as a very very simplified example, most fifth graders can easily name America (duh), Mexico, Canada, Russia, and England.
That is rather, for lack of a better term, racist of you. ~jazz14456

@jazz14456 Well for comparison I'm an seventh grader from europe(We call it year eight there) and I can name 64 off the top of my head, that's 320% more. Therefore the point of the comic and @JFreund 's point still stand. ~Samarthwiz

:Your brand of negativism, as well as the additional above, does nothing to advance any sort of constructive dialogue. Please check your misconceptions, generalizations, and inaccuracies about entire populations at the door. They're not welcome in communities of thinking people. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 12:25, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

BTW, the Robinson drawing in the comic is '''much''' too accurate to be pure freehand. He probably used tracing or grid point marks. -- [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:46, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

It's probably sarcasm too that "Tibet" is incorrectly labelled on Xinjiang. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.223.47|108.162.223.47]] 01:20, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

"Aral sea (??Toane" is probably "Aral sea (gone)" {{unsigned ip|173.245.55.60}}

Talk:836: Sickness

2014-07-21T08:03:50Z

Orazor:

836: Sickness

2014-07-21T08:02:21Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 836
| date = December 20, 2010
| title = Sickness
| image = sickness.png
| titletext = At least, with p<0.05 confidence.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic was published 2 months after [[Randall]]'s then fiancée, now wife, was diagnosed with breast cancer (see [[:Category:Cancer]]), which is likely what inspired this comic - even though [[Cueball]] sounds like he is the one afflicted by the sickness. The comic is thus about the existential questions that might arise from such a crisis. The moral could be interpreted as that you shouldn't begrudge your fellow human being, regardless of where they find comfort.

Also, any sentence is instantly funny if, at the end of it, you address your audience as "bitches". It may also be a reference to [[54: Science]].

"Slings and arrows of fortune" is an allusion to the "{{w|To be, or not to be}}" soliloquy in William Shakespeare's ''{{w|Hamlet, Prince of Denmark}}''. Hamlet asks himself whether it is "Nobler in the mind to suffer / The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune" (to resign oneself to one's fate and endure what may come), or to "take Arms against a Sea of troubles, / and by opposing end them" (to commit suicide and end suffering); he ultimately concludes that we would rather face the dangers and pains we know on Earth than whatever unknown new ones may come in the afterlife. Cueball appears to agree with Hamlet, thanking "the people who refused to gracefully accept the ineffability of reality": Religion and spirituality can give him the moral courage to face his death, but he'd much prefer to not die in the first place, and won't have to, thanks to medical and scientific innovation.

The title text is a pun based on Cueball's newfound confidence, asserting that his statement "because they work, bitches" has a 95% ''confidence'' interval.

==Transcript==
:[The three panels are arranged diagonally, upper left to bottom right.]
:[Two people are walking past a tree. One is White Hat.]
:White Hat: So, has this sickness opened you up to looking for answers beyond science?
:Cueball: ...no, not really.

:[Cueball turns to face White Hat.]
:Cueball: We've groped for comfort before the slings and arrows of fortune for millennia, and I begrudge nobody their sources of solace.
:Cueball: But Science provides ''tools''.
:Cueball: $100 billion a year in scientific studies and medical R&D has bought us some pretty damn powerful slings and arrows of our own.
:Cueball: This world is amazing, and I'm going to live to experience more of it thanks to people who refused to gracefully accept the ineffability of reality.
:Cueball: I find my courage where I can, but I take my weapons from science.

:Cueball: Because they ''work'', bitches.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Cancer]]
[[Category:Religion]]

Talk:825: Guest Week: Jeffrey Rowland (Overcompensating)

2014-07-17T10:33:00Z

Orazor:

The Turkey Voluntary Extinction Movement has to be a riff on the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (www.vhemt.org [I'm not sure what the "t" is doing there] ). Alas, their primary purpose seems to be selling TShirts (their site concludes with the FAQ Question: How do I order stickers, T-shirts, and stuff?)[[User:Traveller|Traveller]] ([[User talk:Traveller|talk]]) 23:06, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

The Globe shrinks noticeably between the first and last panels. --[[User:ParadoX|ParadoX]] ([[User talk:ParadoX|talk]]) 01:00, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I believe that was intentional. {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.51}}

Removed the bit about supposed turkey stupidity. There's no evidence (aside from "everybody knows/says" type arguments) to support it, and plenty to discredit the assertion. See, for example: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/news/release/2003/11/osu-animal-scientist-debunks-dumb-turkey-myth [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 10:33, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

825: Guest Week: Jeffrey Rowland (Overcompensating)

2014-07-17T10:25:52Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 825
| date = November 25, 2010
| title = Guest Week: Jeffrey Rowland (Overcompensating)
| image = guest_week_jeffrey_rowland_overcompensating.png
| titletext = Guest comic by Jeffrey Rowland of Overcompensating/Wigu. Jeffrey is famous as the picture on the Wikipedia article on 'Necrosis'.
}}

==Explanation==
[[Randall]] himself is talking to {{w|Jeffrey Rowland}}, who writes the popular web comics [http://www.overcompensating.com Overcompensating] and [http://www.wigucomics.com/adventures/index.php Wigu].

This may be a reference to Scott Adams' {{w|God's Debris}}, in which a delivery guy has a long conversation about the nature of the universe with an old man. While often dealing with complex questions, the old man in the story presents arguments in a very straightforward way. Some have called some of the arguments in the book very clever and original, albeit overly simplistic. This comic could be a parody on that style of philosophy.

The title text is completely true: After a brown recluse spider bit him, {{w|Jeffrey Rowland|Rowland}} started experiencing cell death in his leg. Although the wound itself is benign, it still is featured in Wikipedia articles (such as {{w|Loxoscelism}}).

Traditionally, {{w|turkey (meat)|turkey}} is the main dish of the U.S. {{w|Thanksgiving (United States)|Thanksgiving}} holiday. Thus, the theory mentioned in the last panel is that {{w|Turkey (animal)|turkeys}} started the holiday in order to drive themselves to extinction. This is a reference to the {{w|Voluntary Human Extinction Movement}}.

==Transcript==
:[Jeffrey Rowland and Randall are sitting together, with a globe between them. Mr. Rowland has a drink with a small umbrella over it.]
:Jeffrey Rowland: But enough of my theories about Thanksgiving. The ''real'' reason we're here is to discuss my hypothesis that dark matter ''itself'' is what consciousness is made of...

:[The frame focuses on Jeffrey Rowland.]
:Jeffrey Rowland: Unobservable to anything that is itself conscious in much the same way the mail-man won't deliver your mail if you are watching the mail-box

:[Mr. Rowland raises his drink.]
:Jeffrey Rowland: Which brings us to my theory about ghosts-
:Randall Munroe: Wait did you just say Thanksgiving was invented by the ''Turkey Voluntary Extinction Movement?''
{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Randall Munroe]]
[[Category:Comics featuring real people]]
[[Category:Guest Week]]

Talk:824: Guest Week: Bill Amend (FoxTrot)

2014-07-17T09:04:47Z

Orazor:

isn't sudo used in any Unix system? so linux and mac[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.62|108.162.216.62]] 23:29, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

From the last paragraph of the explanation: "The dissenters are then asked. Their response being 'Nay.'" I remember it being "No". In the US Congress a voice vote is conducted as follows: "Those in favor say 'Aye'..." ("Aye...") "Those oppose, 'No'..." ("No...") "The [ayes/noes] have it." --[[User:Troy0|Troy0]] ([[User talk:Troy0|talk]]) 08:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
:Actually, it looks a bit more complicated than that. It appears that in the Senate, when a voice vote is called, appropriate responses are "yea" and "no," but for a role call vote, it's "yea" or "nay." In the House, the appropriate response to a voice vote is "aye" or "no," while a record vote merits a "yea" or "nay." Amusingly, for a so-called "yea or nay" vote (in which House members are called for voice vote alphabetically), the appropriate response is neither "yea" nor "nay," but rather "aye" or "no." Sources: https://www.senate.gov/general/Features/votes.htm and http://archives.democrats.rules.house.gov/Archives/voting_house.htm [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 09:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:694: Retro Virus

2014-06-11T08:52:43Z

Orazor: Created page with "Edited to reflect that at the time referenced in the comic (2003), Windows XP machines were not necessarily "more susceptible" to viruses, but rather due to their ubiquity (es..."

Edited to reflect that at the time referenced in the comic (2003), Windows XP machines were not necessarily "more susceptible" to viruses, but rather due to their ubiquity (especially at large corporations or other organizations) were more likely to be targeted by viruses. I'm certainly not an expert, so please if anyone has a better understanding, update or revert the explanation, as appropriate. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 08:52, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

694: Retro Virus

2014-06-11T08:49:14Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 694
| date = January 27, 2010
| title = Retro Virus
| image = retro_virus.png
| titletext = He says this is the year of Linux on the desktop! The world of Windows will fade any moment now!
}}
==Explanation==

This comic uses the word "retro" as a reference to {{w|Retro|retro style}} and "virus" as a reference to {{w|Computer virus|computer viruses}}. This {{w|portmanteau}} is also a double entendre for a {{w|retrovirus}}, which is a type of biological virus.

[[Cueball]] finds himself needing to clean a virus off his {{w|Microsoft Windows|Windows}} machine. Unfortunately, the {{w|Windows Registry|registry}} editor (regedit), a key tool in manipulating Windows, is affected. A coworker comes over and mentions that it has been a while since he has worried about cleaning viruses in the {{w|Windows API#Versions|Win32 API}}.

Cueball responds that {{w|Windows XP}} operating system is still the most popular (which it [http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=11&qpcustomb=0&qpsp=2009&qpnp=4&qptimeframe=Y was] in 2010, and remained until mid-2012), but is drowned out by another coworker ([[Ponytail]]) who exclaims that it is as if they are back in 2003. Back then, {{w|Windows XP}} machines were the standard in many places, and were far more often targeted by viruses than other systems, e.g. {{w|Linux}}, {{w|Mac OS X}}, etc.

Cueball's coworkers continue to make fun of him by referencing things that were important back in 2003 like {{w|Howard Dean}}, {{w|Friendster}} or {{w|Kazaa}}. Such things have since fallen largely out of prominence.

The title text is a reference to the {{w|Desktop Linux#Year of Desktop Linux|year of Linux on the desktop}}, which is an expectation that in an upcoming year, Linux will make a large breakthrough and be widely adopted by businesses and personal users. The expectation has been around since about 2000, however, and has not exactly happened (although non-desktop devices running {{w|Android (operating system)|Android}}, a Linux-based OS, are now very common). If it were to happen, the large market share enjoyed by Windows OSes would fade away.

==Transcript==
:[Cueball is using a computer.]
:Cueball: Argh, this is frustrating.
:Friend (off-panel): What?

:Cueball: This Windows box has a virus and I can't get RegEdit to-
:Friend (off-panel): Haha, cleaning viruses? Man, what a blast from the past!

:Friend: Check it out! Dude's cleaning Win32 viruses! Remember that?
:Ponytail (off-panel): It's like we're back in 2003!
:Cueball (small): Hey, XP's still the most-

:Friend: Did you get the virus from Kazaa?
:Ponytail (with laptop): Guess what I just read on Howard Dean's Friendster!?
:Cueball (head in hands): Guys...

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]

Talk:671: Stephen and Me

2014-06-09T13:09:30Z

Orazor:

The etymologies are related.
* http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=revolve&allowed_in_frame=0
* http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=vulva&allowed_in_frame=0
[[Special:Contributions/178.42.120.14|178.42.120.14]] 21:53, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
:How ironic, then, that Volvo's trademark is the same as the astrological symbol for Mars, the alchemical symbol for iron, and the Linnean symbol for male. [[User:Orazor|Orazor]] ([[User talk:Orazor|talk]]) 13:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

647: Scary

2014-06-06T09:36:25Z

Orazor: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 647
| date = October 9, 2009
| title = Scary
| image = scary.png
| titletext = I'm teaching every 8-year-old relative to say this, and every 14-year-old to do the same thing with Toy Story. Also, Pokemon hit the US over a decade ago and kids born after Aladdin came out will turn 18 next year.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|The first part is still bad. "Uncle Rob tlks about a lame story" isn't explained as well.}}

Uncle Rob is telling his eight-year-old nephew a ghost story, employing such stereotyped devices as a flash light-lit face and stock ghost story endings. Rob's precocious nephew characterizes the ghost story as "lame," meaning that it was unimpressive or unconvincingly feeble. By contrast, he offers the much scarier notion that having been born after 9/11 he is already able to hold such a conversation with his uncle.

No hidden meaning here, but this sure is scary. What's being implied here is that time is moving really quickly and we're getting older faster than we think. Events that seem like they "just happened" have happened long enough ago for a whole other person to come into existence, grow up, and learn to carry on a conversation.

{{w|9/11}} was a major disaster in 2001 to the United States — maybe also topping the {{w|Attack on Pearl Harbor}} in 1941 — but the boy here knows much about that attack even when he was born after. Nevertheless he states that he can share scary discussions with his adult counterpart even without own experiences on this incident.

The title text mentions that [[Randall]] is teaching his 8 year old relatives to say the same as in the comic — presumably to the annoyance of his older relatives who will be reminded of the fast passage of time. He does not stop here, but teaches the 14 year old's to say they are born after {{w|Toy Story}} — a major block buster hit from {{w|Pixar}} which came out in 1995. A movie many people will remember fondly and feel just came out the other day... He continues with these scary thoughts by mentioning that {{w|Pokémon}} (1996) came out over a decade ago and that kids born after the big {{w|Disney}} hit movie {{w|Aladdin_(1992_Disney_film)|Aladdin}} from 1992 will turn 18 a year after this comic was published.

==Transcript==
:[Rob and his nephew are sitting on the ground. Rob is holding a flashlight up to his face.]
:Rob: But they ''never found the ghost's head!''
:Nephew: Lame story, Uncle Rob.
:Rob: And you could do scarier?
:Nephew: Sure.

:Rob: Try me.
:Nephew: 9/11 happened before I was born, yet I'm old enough to have this conversation with you.

:[Rob has dropped the flashlight.]

:[Rob has curled up and wrapped his arms around himself.]

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Rob]]