explain xkcd - User contributions [en]

Talk:1575: Footprints

2015-09-09T14:35:07Z

Zweisteine:

I know a lot about the poem this is referencing as it was my deceased grandmothers favourite. However I am omitting myself from making any changes other than putting in the poem it is referencing and the most brief of explanations to begin so someone with less emotional bias can fix formatting and improve wording. The poem can be found here: http://www.onlythebible.com/Poems/Footprints-in-the-Sand-Poem.html [[User:Squirrel killer-|Squirrel killer-]] ([[User talk:Squirrel killer-|talk]]) 06:01, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Should we address that AT-ST' nickname is "chicken Walker"? [[Special:Contributions/198.41.243.249|198.41.243.249]] 08:46, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The title text is not in textese (which you be "theres 1 set of fps bcs I carried U".) I'm not sure what it is exactly (not being American) the closest I can get is "Valley girl" (which is not right) and "that one dialect the frat-boys speak in the movies", which can't be it's name. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.224|141.101.88.224]] 09:43, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

"Going home == death" Are we certain that this is meant? I feel it could also poke fun at the whole "walk of life" concept, and going home simply means going home... --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.10|162.158.92.10]] 09:55, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the definite implication that "Going home == death", and instead made it a possible interpretation. I agree that the title text is "frat-boy speak", but I'm not sure what you would call it -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.55|141.101.99.55]] 10:08, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I think the quicksand is a reference to Lawrence of Arabia, in the movie(spoiler alert?) Lawrence walks across the Sinai Desert only to see one of his men caught in quicksand and die immediately before reaching their destination.
[[User:Joar|Joar]] ([[User talk:Joar|talk]]) 10:15, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd call the title text dialect "bro talk" or something similar. Also, the quicksand bit is definitely in reference to Jesus' ability to walk on water: since quicksand is a mixture of water and sand, presumably it would be easier to walk on than regular water. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.153|173.245.54.153]] 13:52, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The presumed reference to "Winnie the Pooh" is very far fetched. The joke of following its own footprint is used in many other works. Same for drawing in a quicksand. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.66.23|141.101.66.23]] 14:03, 9 September 2015 (UTC)
:Ha! Edit conflict, for exactly the same subject. What I was about to say was: The 'following our own footprints' bit reminded me, initially, of Tintin (In The Land Of The Black Gold?), with Thomson and Thompson's jeep, although that was two, four, six, etc tyre-tracks. I think the Pooh example is the more likely archetype.
:(i.e., in light of what I'm now replying to, more likely than the Tintin version. Whether or not Pooh was ''the'' inspiration.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.114|141.101.99.114]] 14:11, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

: I've noticed that problem quite a bit around here - generic comments being explained as specific references. But I'm too lazy to change them myself. Anyone up for it? [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 14:35, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Talk:1492: Dress Color

2015-02-27T19:04:31Z

Zweisteine:

To me, they both look blue/gold [[User:Mikemk|Mikemk]] ([[User talk:Mikemk|talk]]) 06:29, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
:To me as well. The one on the right, with a lighter background, appears more bluish and the collar is a darker brown. (The collar on the left, to my eyes, matches the face on the right.) But both definitely appear bluish with a dull yellow. - Equinox [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.120|199.27.128.120]] 16:50, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

What is the illusion supposed to be? The colors of the dress look a bit darker with the light background, but not very much. Is that the illusion? --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.82|141.101.80.82]] 07:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
: Agree. To me, it looks like it's definitely light blue (maybe "cornflower"?) with pale olive stripes. "Gold" would really be a stretch. It looks like that in all lighting conditions and in both backgrounds of the strip. Did I pass some kind of color-blindness test? Or fail? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.133|108.162.254.133]] 07:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
: This has nothing to do with color-blindness, but probably with certain arbitrary constants related to white-balance adjustment that differ brain-to-brain. Many people I know insist that even though the picture looks blue, it's a dress illuminated by a blue light, and based on this assumption their brain may essentially redden the whole picture to adjust for this light. The actual picture was taken in white light, not blue light. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.28|173.245.55.28]] 07:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

::It may also be related to white-balance of the MONITOR. I see original dress like black and blue and the one on left here as gold and light blue. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:00, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Apparently for some people the left-hand-side's general blueishness is adjusted against by the visual system enough to make the dress look white and gold instead of blue and brown. I am not one of those people. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.28|173.245.55.28]] 07:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Description says left for both [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.219|141.101.98.219]] 08:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
:Now changed. (Saw it myself before I saw your comment, and just lept straight in there. Hopefully I changed the right left so that it's right and not left the wrong left whilst producing the wrong right. Alright?) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.192|141.101.98.192]] 09:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC) (Also, "hello near-IP neighbour!"... The same digits, even. Creepy.)
::Y'all are both from London, and probably live on the same street. Congrats! You made a friend! :) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.192|108.162.216.192]] 16:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Are they really the same colour? 'Cause to me on the blue side it looks blue and black- while on the white side it looks white and gold. Is this normal? {{unsigned|FlyingPiggy}}

The figure on the right definitely has a beard. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.182|108.162.249.182]] 09:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I checked with ColorZilla and the RGB values are identical. From my perspective, in the one on the left the dress appears pale blue with darker brown/gold stripes, and the one on the right appears a darker blue with lighter brown/gold stripes. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.63|141.101.98.63]] 10:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

This is just a polychromatic version of that checker shadow illusion, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.38|108.162.231.38]] 10:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
:That's what I thought too. But it looks the same (doesn't it?) and is the same (that, thankfully is non-subjective and verifiable with as little as MSPaint), so I'm at loss as to why this deserves a comic. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.136|141.101.104.136]] 10:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
: This is a common optical illusion (at least I've seen this many times) - most peoples eyes perform a white balance adjustment automatically which affects the perceived colours. If your eyes don't do this then you will do well in the paint colour matching business. http://www.moillusions.com/hue-optical-illusion/ I apologise for the jarring colours in the link. {{unsigned ip|141.101.98.220}}
:Here's a particularly good demonstration of the underlying "color perception" illusion (i.e. the Checker-Shadow illusion referred to above): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Sen1HTu5o [[User:Arcanechili|Arcanechili]] ([[User talk:Arcanechili|talk]]) 15:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The comic is a reference to the debate around the coloration of [http://amd.c.yimg.jp/amd/20150227-00000070-zdn_n-000-2-view.jpg this dress]. The band in the middle of the image shows some of the material of the dress. To some people, including me, the dress is obviously, unquestionably black and blue. But to others, including my wife, it's obviously, unquestionably, black and gold. {{unsigned ip|103.22.200.196}}
:And to others it's apparently a number of other combinations - I've seen claims of white/gold and blue/orange. However, surprisingly few people seem to have seen [http://www.romanoriginals.co.uk/invt/70931?colour=Royal-Blue this link] to the manufacturer's page for what appears to be the same dress; available in 4 colour combinations which according to the manufacturers' descriptions are ivory/black, scarlet/black, pink/black and royal-blue/black, with pictures available of all versions. As such I'm happy to accept the pictures doing the rounds are probably the blue/black variant (although most of the over-exposed versions I've seen appear light-blue/goldish-brown to me. {{unsigned ip|141.101.99.77}}

Our eyes are too efficient, which makes this illusion work. In dim light we dilate our eyes, so an enclosed room with one lamp seems bright, though it is a cave compared to the outdoors. If the bulb in our lamp is of a warm tone, our eyes adjust so we believe we see colours as though in daylight. I think that's what's happening in the dress illusion -- we are trying to allow for perceived lighting conditions in the photo -- so the actual illusion is in our guess as to what those light conditions actually are. And finally an artist quote: "I can paint you the skin of Venus with mud, provided you let me surround it as I will." - Eugene Delacroix [[Special:Contributions/108.162.242.84|108.162.242.84]] 13:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Some Notes on camera color correction: it's worse than, and is not just an optical illusion. It's a camera screwup.

* [http://40.media.tumblr.com/a391a1b4b46dd6b498d379e50f96ecbc/tumblr_nkcjuq8Tdr1tnacy1o1_500.jpg Here is the original photo] as [http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112159166305/katze-geht-meow-ijustloveyoutubers seen here]

* [http://media.tumblr.com/ec387ec0bb03230268a9e905d74097d9/tumblr_inline_nkeezsjAuH1svicb3.jpg Here is a second photo of the same dress in normal light] As [http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112164479015/can-we-have-more-pictures-of-the-dress-please-we seen here]

* [http://www.romanoriginals.co.uk/invt/70931?colour=Royal-Blue Here is the online store where you can buy the dress]

* [http://www.romanoriginals.co.uk/content/ebiz/romanoriginals/invt/70931/70931rbl_zoom1.jpg Here is a high quality photo of the dress from the store]

* [http://imgur.com/RY2dTnW.jpg Here is an example of the color "correction" that happens when you calibrate things so that Dark Blue = White.] NOTE: This is a major readjustment of colors and there is no real color matching between the two images. White is not actually blue in this image, and up is not down, and you are not going crazy

Cheap cameras will try to adjust colors based on formulas that guess what the correct color scheme is.

If you take a photo while in the shade on a sunny day, you likely get most of your light from the bright *BLUE* sky. This can make you look awful. The camera is set up to guess the correct exposure. In this case the camera follows the rules, and guesses, wrongly, that the the overall majority color in the center of the photo is white, and transforms the rest of the colors to match

It's a camera screwup. It also depends on how bad your viewing device is behaving, because, based on how dark the screen is, you then get the optical illusion effect that Randall posted.

This is a secondary effect, and not the real reason why behind what is going on in the first place. The correct rendering of the camera screwup is going to be, on most devices with normal color rendition, white with gold. Because some monitors are lighter or darker depending on viewing angle, this also impacts color perception.

We can then get the actual optical illusion after all that. But as we have seen with good photos of the actual dress in normal light, the camera got it wrong.

TL;DR: It's a cell phone camera screwup. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.170|173.245.52.170]] 14:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)ruary 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible that there's a connection between this comic and [[690: Semicontrolled Demolition]]? Some discussions I've seen about this topic involve the choice between white/gold and blue/black, so Randall coloured his dress gold/blue. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.122|108.162.216.122]] 16:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
: It's more likely due to the fact that the colors of the actual picture - that is, if you use a color picker - are roughly the same as those in the comic. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.111|108.162.216.111]] 17:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm reminded of [[356: Nerd Sniping]], only the perpetrator has managed to snipe the entire interwebs {{unsigned ip|141.101.106.107}}

No one has yet mentioned that ignoring color, the two images are also mirror images of each other. On the left, the figure is looking slightly toward her own right shoulder; while on the right she is looking slightly to her own left. Most likely not at all relevant to this discussion, but usually folks on this forum are very quick to point out even insignificant details (like I'm doing right now) :)
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.42|108.162.216.42]] 19:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
{{unsigned ip|108.162.216.42}}

==== Similar Illusions and explanation ====

I feel like this line seems out o place, or at least badly worded (using half the URL as the text...):

''"Similar types of illusions can be seen at Optical illusion#Color_and_brightness_constancies and at echalk. (requires Flash®player)."''

Also, this seems similar to the [http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html checker shadow illusion] (link to page on website with explanation of said illusion).

On another note, this page seems rather disorganized and uniformative about the phenomenon behind this illusion.

[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 19:04, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

1492: Dress Color

2015-02-27T18:59:36Z

Zweisteine:

{{comic
| number = 1492
| date = February 27, 2015
| title = Dress Color
| image = dress_color.png
| titletext = This white-balance illusion hit so hard because it felt like someone had been playing through the Monty Hall scenario and opened their chosen door, only to find there was unexpectedly disagreement over whether the thing they'd revealed was a goat or a car.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic shows two drawings of [[Megan]] wearing the same dress, but with different background colors. The two drawings are split with a narrow vertical portion of an image from the web.

The comic strip refers to a dress whose image went viral the day before the strip was posted, showing up on [http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2xaprc/eli5why_does_this_dress_appear_whitegold_to_some/ Reddit], [https://twitter.com/hashtag/thedress?src=hash Twitter], [http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/ Wired], [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/business/a-simple-question-about-a-dress-and-the-world-weighs-in.html The New York Times], and originally on [http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112174461490/officialunitedstates-unclefather Tumblr].

Due to the dress's particular color scheme and the exposure of the photo, it forms an optical illusion causing viewers to disagree on what color the dress actually seems to be. The xkcd strip sandwiches a cropped segment of the photographed dress between two drawings which use the colors from the image against different backgrounds, leading the eye to interpret the white balance differently, demonstrating how the dress can appear different colors depending on context and the viewer's previous experiences.

[[File:dress.png|200px|thumb|right|Illustration demonstrating that the "colors" of the dresses are the same by connecting them with two lines.]]

Both dresses have exactly the same colors actually:
* RGB 113, 94, 58 (orange) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #715E3A"></div>
* RGB 135, 154, 189 (blue) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #879ABD"></div>

Similar types of illusions can be seen at {{w|Optical illusion#Color_and_brightness_constancies}} and at [http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html echalk.] (requires Flash®player).

Since the color of the dress seems immediately "obvious", to any given viewer of it, they feel it is very weird that other people cannot see it that way, resulting in many arguments online. This is probably because people generally do not know much about these kind of optical illusions.

The title text refers to the {{w|Monty Hall problem}}, a brain teaser based on the ''Let's Make a Deal'' TV show. [[Randall]] states that people find the dress color issue just as baffling as if upon opening the chosen door no one can agree if the item behind the door is a car or a goat. This just shows how ridiculous this outrage people feel about the color is. This is a typical kind of prank that Randall enjoys.

==Related==
The Monty Hall problem previously appeared in [[1282: Monty Hall]], where [[Beret Guy]] decides to take the goat.

==Transcript==
:[Two images of Megan in a dress on each side of an image of a close up of a real dress with the same colors. On the left, she is coloured blue on a dark blue background, while on the right, she is yellow against a buttercup background. Her dress is the same colour in each panel - the same as the real one in-between.]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]

1492: Dress Color

2015-02-27T18:58:14Z

Zweisteine:

{{comic
| number = 1492
| date = February 27, 2015
| title = Dress Color
| image = dress_color.png
| titletext = This white-balance illusion hit so hard because it felt like someone had been playing through the Monty Hall scenario and opened their chosen door, only to find there was unexpectedly disagreement over whether the thing they'd revealed was a goat or a car.
}}

==Explanation==
This comic shows two drawings of [[Megan]] wearing the same dress, but with different background colors. The two drawings are split with a narrow vertical portion of an image from the web.

The comic strip refers to a dress whose image went viral the day before the strip was posted, showing up on [http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/2xaprc/eli5why_does_this_dress_appear_whitegold_to_some/ Reddit], [https://twitter.com/hashtag/thedress?src=hash Twitter], [http://www.wired.com/2015/02/science-one-agrees-color-dress/ Wired], [http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/business/a-simple-question-about-a-dress-and-the-world-weighs-in.html The New York Times], and originally on [http://swiked.tumblr.com/post/112174461490/officialunitedstates-unclefather Tumblr].

Due to the dress's particular color scheme and the exposure of the photo, it forms a sort of optical illusion causing viewers to disagree on what color the dress actually seems to be. The xkcd strip sandwiches a cropped segment of the photographed dress between two drawings which use the colors from the image against different backgrounds, leading the eye to interpret the white balance differently, demonstrating how the dress can appear different colors depending on context and the viewer's previous experiences.

[[File:dress.png|200px|thumb|right|Illustration demonstrating that the "colors" of the dresses are the same by connecting them with two lines.]]

Both dresses have exactly the same colors actually:
* RGB 113, 94, 58 (orange) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #715E3A"></div>
* RGB 135, 154, 189 (blue) <div style="display:inline-block; height:1em; width:1em; background-color: #879ABD"></div>

Similar types of illusions can be seen at {{w|Optical illusion#Color_and_brightness_constancies}} and at [http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html echalk.] (requires Flash®player).

Since the color of the dress seems immediately "obvious", to any given viewer of it, they feel it is very weird that other people cannot see it that way, resulting in many arguments online. This is probably because people generally do not know much about these kind of optical illusions.

The title text refers to the {{w|Monty Hall problem}}, a brain teaser based on the ''Let's Make a Deal'' TV show. [[Randall]] states that people find the dress color issue just as baffling as if upon opening the chosen door no one can agree if the item behind the door is a car or a goat. This just shows how ridiculous this outrage people feel about the color is. This is a typical kind of prank that Randall enjoys.

==Related==
The Monty Hall problem previously appeared in [[1282: Monty Hall]], where [[Beret Guy]] decides to take the goat.

==Transcript==
:[Two images of Megan in a dress on each side of an image of a close up of a real dress with the same colors. On the left, she is coloured blue on a dark blue background, while on the right, she is yellow against a buttercup background. Her dress is the same colour in each panel - the same as the real one in-between.]

{{comic discussion}}

[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]

Talk:1417: Seven

2014-09-05T19:53:15Z

Zweisteine:

Guacamole = 7-layer dip ingredient
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.81|108.162.215.81]] 05:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)Anonymous XKCD reader

Seventh Seal more likely to be a reference to Book of Revelation (I think he's brought it up before?) or the film? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.96|199.27.133.96]] 05:17, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Arctic Ocean is one of the modern Seven "Seas" of the world.
Green is the 4th color of seven in the Arthur Hamilton song "I Can Sing a Rainbow". {{unsigned ip|108.162.249.212}}

I guess the title text is a play on the fact that the dwarves in the new Snow White (2001) movie are called Monday, Tuesday, ... That is the connection between Snow White dwarves and days of the week. The filmmakers decided to intermix sets of seven in the first place. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.90|108.162.254.90]] 06:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

There could be a pattern with order.

*Sneezy: 1st dwarf of the seven dwarves in Snow White.
*Phylum: 2nd rank in the Seven Taxonomic Ranks
*Europe: 3rd continent of the world
*Sloth: 4th sin of the Seven Deadly Sin
*Guacamole: 5th Layer in a 7 Layer Bean Dip
*Data Link: 6th Layer in the OSI Model
*Collosus of Rhodes: 7th Wonder of the Ancient World

*Monday: 1st Day of the Week (American).
*Arctic: 2nd ocean in the modern Seven "Seas" of the world.
*Wellesley: 3rd college of the Seven Sister colleges
*Green: 4th color in the Arthur Hamilton song "I Can Sing a Rainbow".
*Electra: 5th sister of the Pleiades, the Seven Sisters.
*Synergize: 6th Habit in the Stephen R. Covey self-help book "Seven Habits of Highly Effective People".
*Seventh Seal: 7th Seal of the Seven Seals in the Book of Revelations

{{unsigned ip|108.162.249.212}}

:The list on the page needs to be fixed to show Europe third. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.213|141.101.99.213]] 11:15, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The Pleiades is Randall's favorite constellation. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.161|108.162.237.161]] 08:40, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

It sure is nice seeing the explanation getting more refined and complete every time I visit... [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.168|103.22.201.168]] 10:37, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I've always been told there are only six continents. North America and South America are one continent. The seventh continent sometimes refers to this gigantic area filled with plastic rubbish in the Pacific Ocean. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.143|108.162.229.143]] 11:47, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
: See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uBcq1x7P34 But no one talks about the Great Pacific garbage patch as a continent. 7 continents is the most common model, with some (mainly Latin Americans) considering the Americas a single continent. Some others consider Eurasia a single continent (personally that's what I prefer, it makes the most sense). --[[User:Zagorath|Zagorath]] ([[User talk:Zagorath|talk]]) 12:12, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
: I've only ever heard folks say there are seven continents. By strict definition of the word, North and South America do form a single continent (at least did prior to the Panama Canal cutting them apart) the vast majority of people see then as two separate continents. Dividing the Eurasian landmass in two, however, that one never made much sense. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.117|199.27.128.117]] 16:53, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Guacamole may also be a reference to a famous joke which made the rounds about 15 years ago, where somebody had compared the 7 layers of the OSI network model to Taco Bell's 7-layer burrito. Guacamole was the 5th layer, which lends credence to this idea. It's still available on the WayBack Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/19990826193318/http://www.europa.com/~dogman/osi/ [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.151|108.162.219.151]] 11:59, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I suspect Electra is from the list of extant complete plays of Sophocles: Ajax, Antigone, The Women of Trachis, Oedipus the King, Electra, Philoctetes and Oedipus at Colonus. [[User:Besimmons|Besimmons]] ([[User talk:Besimmons|talk]]) 13:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I find it interesting that although Randall is American he lists Monday as the first day of the week. That's where it's positioned in most cultures outside the USA, but Americans normally consider Sunday to be the first day. --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 13:51, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
: I can't speak for anyone outside the US, but as someone who has spent 99.9% of my life within US borders (few weeks in Canada, if you think that should essentially count...), I only acknowledge that the first day listed on any monthly calendar I see around here is most often Sunday. If you were to ask me what the first day of the week is, I would very quickly and easily say "Monday". That is what I'm teaching my 4- and 2-year olds... There are a few reasons I would give to explain that other than "I think of it as the first day of the week". It's the first work day of the "work week", and since life is for most people centered around one form of work or another, that gives the "work week" high importance. By extension, Sunday is the last day in the "weekend". By Judeo-Christian beliefs, God rested on the "seventh" Day - most Christians believe that to be Sunday; others (I believe mostly Jewish) believe it to be Saturday - I think, though that even those who consider Saturday to be a holy day, if you were to ask them in casual conversation what the first day of the week is (I may be wrong, but), I think they would say "Monday"... (?) Any other "Americans" or "Non-Americans" (I'd ask for you to clearly identify with one or the other) want to weight in on this? - [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 15:51, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I find instead interesting that he makes no mention of the seven notes, while mentioning other sets less ubiquitous --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.163|108.162.229.163]] 14:13, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

OMFG, the second picture of a dwarf in the list is Dopey, why the hell did somebody say it's Fievel!? http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=seven+dwarfs+dopey&qpvt=Seven+Dwarves+Dopey&FORM=IGRE
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40|108.162.216.40]] 19:44, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Arctic is the second ocean alphabetically. Someone should change the list to reflect that, I think. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 19:53, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1350: Lorenz

2014-04-02T23:59:20Z

Zweisteine:

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.61|173.245.50.61]] 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.192|108.162.212.192]] 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........[[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here... and a lot of space below it. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. [http://i.imgur.com/pw2OfOL.png Screenshot here].
UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access."
FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com!
It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

** I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from ''<nowiki><div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')})
</script></div></nowiki>'', and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.224|141.101.89.224]] 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.12|108.162.219.12]] 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is it the same as was used in Externalities? [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?
*Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
*These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
*Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
*Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays
--[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

:If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, though the second-tier options have changed [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1193:_Externalities 1193: Externalities] is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::: I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public '''votes''' for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd [[User:Haithere|Haithere]] ([[User talk:Haithere|talk]]) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program {{unsigned ip|108.162.242.111}}
::: it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.65}}
:::: found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.28|108.162.215.28]] 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error:
Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21
Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null
Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js
Line: 2 -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. ''– [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)''

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.8|108.162.245.8]] 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Has this been found before?
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.73|173.245.55.73]] 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:Ok, I'm gonna add those. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Great! And now I found another: Pikachu uses Ethylene Dichloride. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6f59d766-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
I'll add it to the but about pikachu in the comic, but the pictures are up to someone else.[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Slightly different space path, in which the rocket expodes: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:dd99ea0e-ba04-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Are there any panels that have two speech bubbles that are not dead ends? It seems that there are never any options for the second bubble, and sometimes the first bubble has options that would fit in the second bubble after the other options for the first bubble. Maybe submissions for the second bubble accidentally end up in the first instead? Another bug? [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
==Transcipt discussion==
===Design===
*What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
*Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Characters===
*Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** Also he is called Dave here: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3b1a226e-b9c6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Is the right politician = Cueball?
*Who is the left? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Other===
*Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

==Chategories not yet included==
Should they be?
*I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I created [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page [[1350: Lorenz]], but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1350: Lorenz

2014-04-02T23:56:47Z

Zweisteine:

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.61|173.245.50.61]] 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.192|108.162.212.192]] 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........[[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here... and a lot of space below it. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. [http://i.imgur.com/pw2OfOL.png Screenshot here].
UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access."
FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com!
It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

** I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from ''<nowiki><div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')})
</script></div></nowiki>'', and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.224|141.101.89.224]] 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.12|108.162.219.12]] 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is it the same as was used in Externalities? [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?
*Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
*These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
*Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
*Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays
--[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

:If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, though the second-tier options have changed [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1193:_Externalities 1193: Externalities] is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::: I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public '''votes''' for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd [[User:Haithere|Haithere]] ([[User talk:Haithere|talk]]) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program {{unsigned ip|108.162.242.111}}
::: it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.65}}
:::: found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.28|108.162.215.28]] 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error:
Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21
Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null
Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js
Line: 2 -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. ''– [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)''

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.8|108.162.245.8]] 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Has this been found before?
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.73|173.245.55.73]] 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:Ok, I'm gonna add those. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Great! And now I found another: Pikachu uses Ethylene Dichloride. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6f59d766-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
I'll add it to the but about pikachu in the comic, but the pictures are up to someone else.[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Are there any panels that have two speech bubbles that are not dead ends? It seems that there are never any options for the second bubble, and sometimes the first bubble has options that would fit in the second bubble after the other options for the first bubble. Maybe submissions for the second bubble accidentally end up in the first instead? Another bug? [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
==Transcipt discussion==
===Design===
*What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
*Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Characters===
*Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** Also he is called Dave here: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3b1a226e-b9c6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Is the right politician = Cueball?
*Who is the left? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Other===
*Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

==Chategories not yet included==
Should they be?
*I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I created [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page [[1350: Lorenz]], but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

1350: Lorenz

2014-04-02T23:50:03Z

Zweisteine: /* Explanation */

{{comic
| number = 1350
| date = April 1, 2014
| title = Lorenz
| image = 1350_lorenz_loop.png
| titletext = Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story
}}

{{incomplete|All possible dialogues are not yet accounted for}}

==Explanation==
This comic is an April fools comic with crowd sourced content. Since April 1st 2014 was a Tuesday, this comic is not in the normal sequence Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

This comic is dynamic and needs interaction by the viewer. There seems to be a bug, where <nowiki>xkcd.com</nowiki> (http and https) are the only functioning URLs that display this comic. The URLs <nowiki>www.xkcd.org</nowiki> and <nowiki>m.xkcd.com</nowiki>, don't seem to work, instead displaying the previous comic, [[1349: Shouldn%27t Be Hard]]

{{w|HTTP cookie|Cookies}} are required to see this page properly.

It appears that new panels may be generated by Randall in near real time as user suggestions to dialog is submitted. The dialogue options are likely based on click-through rates and hence will change over day based on which choices are clicked most using {{w|A/B_testing|A/B measurement techniques..}} This will mean that the most popular choices for dialogue line will prevail as the statistics build up. In some cases, dialogue line options do not depend on the continuity of the storyline followed, suggesting that some parts of the story are planned. For example, do several of the storylines involve one of the two main charachters waking up and for instance telling the other character, “I had the strangest dream…” or even reliving the dream again. This may be due to common submissions across storylines as well.

Every panel has a "permalink" option which generates a unique URL for all the choices made by the reader -- so for example http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:26c8dcea-b9aa-11e3-8002-002590d77bdd will take you to a particular place in the selected choices.

The title 'Lorenz' is referring to {{w|Edward Norton Lorenz}} who among other subjects was famous for {{w|Chaos theory}}. The title is a reference to that the story line of today's comic will include most (all?) of the user submitted dialogue and hence will in nature be chaotic. In addition, the title text, "Every choice, no matter how small", is a reference to the butterfly effect, a phrase coined by Edward Lorenz to describe how a small initial change can lead to wide variations in outcome in a chaotic system.

This comic is an example of a {{w|Choose Your Own Adventure}} story.

Many of the storylines involve Pokemon battles featuring Pikachu, a very popular pokemon. Pikachu uses a number of different moves, none of which are from the Pokemon games. These moves are labelled as "Not very effective".
Variably, Pikachu uses the following moves:
*Granite - Pikachu appears atop a granite platform.
*Faceless - Pikachu's face disappears.
*Thief - Pikachu is wearing hat guy's hat.
*Ink - Pikachu is covered in ink.
*Radicality - Pikachu is on a skateboard
*Ethylene Dichloride - Nothing seems to happen, but Ethylene Dichloride is a toxic chemical, so there may be future consequences for the characters.

==Images==
For the images that appear in this comic, see [[1350: Lorenz/Images]].

==Transcript==
{{incomplete transcript}}
:[An accurate transcript will be impossible to create because the comic changes over time..]

There are many options. Not everyone will see the same options. We are trying to capture as many options as possible in the transcript below. '''The order and options has changed since the transcripter captured the dialogue'''....The dialogue is likely based on click-through rates and hence will change over time based on which choices are clicked most using {{w|A/B_testing|A/B measurement techniques..}}

Often, when a panel is without any choices to make, there is only the option "Continue" to see the next panel.

'''1st Pane:''' ([http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 permalink]) 
Hat Guy:
* Refresh... No new email... Refresh .. No new tweets... Refresh...
* These stupid tiles... I'll just play one more game.
* These stupid tiles... I'll just play one more game. [There are two completely separate branches with this same text. In one of them, it's written "i'll" in lowercase rather than "I'll".]
* Oh. Hey. There's some kind of political thing going on.
* Let's see if BSD is any easier to install nowadays.
* Gravity. Lots of it.

:'''2nd Pane: Refresh Branch''' ([http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6479d184-b9a0-11e3-b947-94de80a03a39 permalink]) 
:Dave:
:* So you're still refusing to use Facebook?
:* Wanna build a snowman?
:* Hey. I hear Godot is in town. Wanna try to meet him?
:* You know. Your car's on fire.

:'''2nd Pane: Stupid Tiles Branch''' ([http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:79f036ac-b9a0-11e3-9003-94de80a03a39 permalink]) 
:[Dave visits Hat Guy.]
:Dave:
:* There's something weird out on the lawn.
:* There's a dinosaur at the door.
:* I heard home depot has 1024 bathroom tiles.
:* I think I saw a "4096" tile outside somewhere.

::'''3rd Pane: Something Weird Branch''' 
::Hat Guy:
::* This is an apartment. We don't have a lawn.
::* I have a lawn?
::* I hope it's not a bobcat this time.
::* If you reprogrammed the squirrel laser to target hipsters again...

:::'''4th-5th Panes: Apartment Branch''' 
:::[Hat Guy and Dave leave the house. They pass by a moat.]
:::Dave:
:::* OK, two weird things.
:::* I can see a creeper down there.
:::* Is this 1-1 from Mario?
:::* See? It's like a glitch in the Matrix.
:::* This isn't where I left that...

::::'''6th Pane: Two Weird Things Branch''' 
::::Dave:
::::* I count three.
::::* Why is there a gap here?
::::* Who tiled the moat?

::::'''6th Pane: Creeper Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy: Damn Griefers.

::::'''6th Pane: Mario Branch''' 
::::[Hat Guy and Dave pass by a tree.]
::::Dave:
::::* Why does that tree looks fake?
::::* Actually, it's the final castle. Grab your Fire Flower!
::::* It's over this way.
::::* I've never been this far before!

:::::'''7th-11th Panes: Fake Tree Branch''' 
:::::Narrator: A wild Pikachu appeared!
:::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Theft"!
:::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
:::::Narrator: ...
:::::Pikachu: Um...

:::::'''7th Pane: Never This Far Branch''' 
:::::Dave: Are you going insane again?

::::'''6th Pane: Matrix Glitch Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy:
::::* How far can we go?
::::* What the fuck?!
::::* How... How do we get everything back?

:::'''4th-5th Panes: Lawn Question Branch''' 
:::[Hat Guy and Dave leave the house. They pass by a moat.]
:::Dave:
:::* Hmmm, did you order a moat?
:::* I don't remember this being here.
:::* Look how deep it goes!
:::* It looks like I can see Moria from here.

::::'''6th Pane: Order Moat Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy:
::::* It helps keep bobcats out.
::::* Of course. All cool kids have moats in their yards.
::::* I don't have the best rerlationship with my mailman.
::::* Yep. Delivered in two days, courtesy of Amazon Prime.

::::'''6th Pane: Don't Remember Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy:
::::* It has begun! That's one of the first holes in reality.
::::* I wanted to jump over the massive sinkhole, but nooo, someone just had to find out what was down there.
::::* Oh, I had the moving company install it last week.
::::* We poop in it.
::::* Finally got you out of the damn house.

:::::'''7th Pane: Hole in Reality Branch''' 
:::::Hat Guy:
:::::* I've been working on a theory that 2048 is a tool for the old ones to open up portals to this reality.
:::::* What about black holes? Those don't count?
:::::* We must go deeper.

::::::'''7th-13th Panes: Damn House Branch''' 
::::::Narrator: A wild Pikachu appeared!
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Ink Cloud"!
::::::Narrator: ...
::::::Pikachu: Um...
::::::Pikachu: Well then.
::::::Pikachu: I might have left surprises in that direction.

::::'''6th Pane: Look How Deep Branch''' 
::::Dave:
::::* I wonder if we can get someone to fall in?
::::* I'm going in. You can come if you want to. I think I see stars down there.
::::* That was a missing opportunity.
::::* I should come outside more often.

::::'''6th Pane: Moria Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy:
::::* You see Moria from everywhere, Dave.
::::* Yeah, who did you think gave them a balrog?
::::* Moria is an anagram of Mario!

:::::'''7th-10th Panes: Moria Everywhere Branch''' 
:::::Narrator: A wild Pikachu appeared!
:::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Ink Cloud"!
:::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
:::::Narrator:
:::::* Google Maps didn't warn me of this.
:::::* Enemy Pikachu used "The Discrete Metric"!
:::::* Gathered the ink!

::::::'''11th-21th Panes: Google Maps Branch''' 
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Uplift!"
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Cute Face!"
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Faceless"!
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Where's Twitch when I need help?
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Abandonment"!
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...

::::::'''11th-15th Panes: Discrete Metric Branch''' 
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Extrude"!
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: ...
::::::Pikachu: Um...
::::::Pikachu:
::::::* Now I only have Struggle left. Tie?
::::::* We are the knights who say Ni!
::::::* What is even going on here?

:::::::'''16th Pane: Struggle Branch''' 
:::::::Pikachu: No fair!

::::::'''11th-13th Panes: Gathered Ink Branch''' 
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...
::::::Narrator: Enemy Pikachu used "Granite"!
::::::Narrator: It's not very effective...

:::::'''7th-10th Panes: Balrog Branch''' 
:::::Hat Guy:
:::::* One does not simple "give" a balrog.
:::::* What? You weren't using it!
:::::* Gift-wrapping's the hardest part.

:::::'''7th Pane: Anagram Branch''' 
:::::[Hat Guy and Dave pass by a tree.]
:::::Dave: Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.

:::'''4th-12th Panes: Bobcat Branch''' 
:::[A giant hole appears and they fall into it.]
:::Hat Guy and Dave: Aaaaa...
:::[Hat Guy wakes up.]
:::Hat Guy: Gasp [Goes to his desk.]
:::Hat Guy: Yawn [Sits at his desk.]
:::Hat Guy:
:::* Might as well clear more tiles.
:::* Definitely not going outside today.
:::* Thank God it wasn't a bobcat.
:::* Hmmm... I should buy a shovel.

::::'''13th Pane: Clear More Tiles Branch''' 
::::[Dave visits Hat Guy again.]
::::Dave:
::::* Um, there's a hole in your lawn...
::::* There's someone at the door looking for you.
::::* I made an apple pie.
::::* If you want to do that, I'm rebuilding my bathroom this afternoon.

:::::'''14th Pane: Hole in the Lawn Branch''' 
:::::Hat Guy:
:::::* If it doesn't lead to a 1024 tile, I'm leaving.
:::::* Damn bobcats.
:::::* I just had a dream about that.

::::::'''15th-16th Panes: Damn Bobcats Branch''' 
::::::Dave:
::::::* Well it was here...
::::::* I don't think it was bobcats this time. Unless they have backshoes...

::::::'''15th-22th Panes: Dream Branch''' 
::::::[Hat Guy and Dave go outside again and fall in the hole again~.]
::::::Hat Guy and Dave: Aaaaa...
::::::[Hat Guy wakes up, leaves the bed and finds a boomerang.]
::::::Hat Guy:
::::::* It looks like is [sic] fell from space.
::::::* I hope this isn't just another one of those dreams that keeps coming back at you.
::::::* I hope this was not thrown by a bobcat.

:::::::'''23th-26th Panes: Space Branch''' 
:::::::[Hat Guy throwns the boomerang away and it hits something.]
:::::::Crash!
:::::::[Hat Guy runs away.]

:::::::'''23th-34th Panes: Coming Back Branch''' 
:::::::[Hat Guy throws the boomerang twice, only for it to return to him both times.]
:::::::Hat Guy: Hm. I was expecting a shark.
:::::::[Hat Guy throwns the boomerang again, and it returns to him again.]

:::::::'''23th-30th Panes: Thrown by Bobcat Branch''' 
:::::::[Hat Guy throws the boomerang, only for it to return to him .]
:::::::Hat Guy: There's a mesage written on it.
:::::::[Hat Guy throws the boomerang again. It hits something.]
:::::::Crash!
:::::::[Hat Guy runs away.]

::::'''13th Pane: Thank God Branch''' 
::::Dave:
::::* You just got a package. It's by the door.
::::* Why is there a bobcat on your lawn?
::::* There's somewhere [sic] weird out on the lawn.
::::* Hey do you know why there's a giant hole in the yard?

::::'''14th Pane: Something Weird Branch''' 
::::Hat Guy:
::::* This seems familiar.
::::* Hold up. I need to get my wingsuit first.
::::* I hope it's not a giant hole.
::::* I have a bad feeling about this.

::::'''15th-18th Pane: Familiar Branch''' 
::::[Hat Guy and Dave go outside.]
::::Hat Guy: I hope it's not a velociraptor.

::::'''15th-18th Pane: Hope Branch''' 
::::[Hat Guy and Dave go outside. They pass by a tree.]
::::Dave: How disappointed are you?
::::Hat Guy:
::::* I was expecting a bobcat.
::::* Oh? That's the other tree.
::::* Eh, not that much.

::::'''14th-16th Panes: Do You Know Why Branch''' 
::::[Hat Guy and Dave go outside.]
::::Hat Guy: I swear if it's a bobcat.
::::Hat Guy:
::::* Why did you bring me here?
::::* This dream has been looping for years, and yet we never tire of it. Why is that?

:::::'''17th Pane: Dream Loop Branch''' 
:::::[There is a gap in the ground. Hat Guy jumps over it, Dave looks into it.]

::::'''13th-14th Panes: Buy Shovel Branch''' 
::::[Hat Guy looks at his screen wondering.]
::::Hat Guy:
::::* Wow! Shovels sure are expensive!
::::* Shovels can't be actually made out of two sticks and a row of rocks?
::::* How can there be 36 types of shovel??!
::::* These prices are insane! I wonder if you can rent a shovel...

:::::'''15th-18th Panes: Sticks and Rocks Branch''' 
:::::[Hat Guy is wondering more. Dave comes. They connect their laptops. Dave is wondering. Hat Guy tries something at Dave's laptop.]

:::'''4th-5th Panes: Squirrel Laser Branch''' 
:::[Hat Guy and Dave go outside.]
:::Hat Guy:
:::* Let's just say we won't have to worry about parking.
:::* No, now they're just wearing wigs ironically.
:::* Things may have gotten out of control a little.
:::* At least it improved their haircuts.

::'''3rd Pane: Bathroom Tiles Branch''' 
::Hat Guy:
::* But how many bathrooms?
::* That's 2^5 more than Ikea, I need to see for myself.
::* Let's go, I can keep playing on my phone on the drive.
::* Pfft. Amateurs. Let's go mock them.

::'''3rd Pane: Dinosaur Branch''' 
::T-Rex:
::* Self-doubt crippled my arms. Can I have yours?
::* I need a hand!
::* Did you think he was joking?
::* Sorry for just barging in, I couldn't reach the doorbell.

:::'''4th Pane: Crippled Arms Branch''' 
:::T-Rex:
:::* Never answer your mobile phone while I am addressing you!
:::* Also, have you heard about Tumblr?
:::* Also I have some trenchant observations on language and philosophy to make.
:::* It's not like you're using them.

::::'''5th Pane: Mobile Phone Branch''' 
::::[T-Rex is going to step on a house.]
::::T-Rex:
::::* I think you just entered a dead zone.
::::* Kids these days.
::::* Die you monster.

:::::'''6th Pane: Dead Zone Branch''' 
:::::[Hat Guy is inside the house. He wakes up from a dream, goes outside and finds a boomerang.]

:::::'''6th Pane: Kids These Days Branch''' 
:::::[Hat Guy is inside the house. He wakes up from a dream, and goes back to his computer.]

:::::'''6th Pane: Die You Monster Branch''' 
:::::[Dave is inside the house. He wakes up from a dream, and starts singing.]
:::::Dave: [Singing] ''I woke up like this.''

::::'''5th-11th Panes: Language and Philosophy Branch''' 
::::[T-Rex is going to step on a house.]
::::* T-Rex: Also, your brain is like this house.
:::: [Hat Guy is inside the house. He wakes up from a dream and goes back to his computer.]

:'''2nd Pane: Stupid Tiles Branch''' ([http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:ffdd8916-b9a7-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd]) 
:[Dave visits Hat Guy.]
:Dave:
:* What's with those tiny games you keep playing, anyway?
:* Isn't that sort of meaningless?
:* Up for a dangerous experiment with no pay?
:* You won't believe what just fell off of your roof.

:'''2nd-3rd Panes: Political Thing Branch''' 
:Laptop: "...and let's go live to the debate."
:[Two politicians are debating on TV.]
:Politician 1:
:* In contrast to my oppponent, who I quote, "Never liked Firefly much to begin with."
:* ...but even if you tied enough birds to the car, would you get them to take off in unison?
:* And if elected, I vow to win this war on Christmas once and for all!
:* I agree with my opponent all all [sic] issues and I think his economic plan is fantastic!

::'''4th Pane: Tied Birds Branch''' 
::Politician 2:
::* Tie a predatory bird to the car with a somewhat shorter rope so that it will scare off the rest of the birds without being able to reach them.
::* Training. That's why I support the "Airlift Act", which would put more resources into the hands of bird educators everywhere.
::* By opening and closing an umbrella near them.
::* One word: Fiscal hawks.

:::'''5th Pane: Airlift Act Branch''' 
:::Politician 1:
:::* But is "Airlift" an acronym?
:::* But you must agree that a bitd in the hand is worth more than three educators in the bush.
:::* Incredible!
:::* Wait... Is that like people who educate birds, or birds that teach?

::::'''6th Pane: Airlift an Acronym''' 
::::Dave:
::::* There are birds outside tied to a car.
::::* The owls in our barn are forming a union.
::::* Or course: Avian Implemented Reuseable Lifter and Ingenuous Flight Technology!

:::::'''7th Pane: Car Branch''' 
:::::Hat Guy:
:::::* Cool, let's see who we should vote for.
:::::* I know who I'm voting for.
:::::* How many birds?

:::::'''8th-9th Panes: How Many Branch''' 
:::::Dave:
:::::* I call her "Serenity."
:::::* So when you said birds...

:::::'''10th-13th Panes: You Said Birds Branch''' 
:::::Hat Guy:
:::::* Wait. The birds are inside!?
:::::* I needed to escape from politics anyway.

:::::'''14th-19th Panes: Birds Inside Branch''' 
:::::White Hat: Want to forget your dreams? There's a pill for that!

:'''2nd-3rd Panes: BSD Branch''' 
:[Hat Guy is confused, staring at his laptop.]
:Hat Guy: ??
:Hat Guy:
:* Now I just need to look up what a "beard error" is...
:* Wait. What's on this other partition?
:* Why is Python importing Skynet?
:* My keyboard has to support SSH over USB?

::'''4th-7th Panes: Beard Error Branch''' 
::[Hat Guy has ?? next to his head to signify confusion. [[Dave]] walks in. (continue) Dave is on the other side of the desk with his own laptop computer. Both the computers are connected through Ethernet cable. The two characters are typing on the computer. The two stop typing. Dave has ??? next to his head. Dave had stepped back while the character is checking on Dave's laptop computer. The character is holding something rectangular.]
::Dave:
::* The USB cable appears to be mono-directional.
::* Kernel mites?
::* I'm not sure rubbing butter on it will help
::* Yep. It's haunted.

:::'''8th-12th Panes: Rubbing Butter Branch''' 
:::[Dave and Hat Guy are handling their computers more aggressively.]
:::Hat Guy: ARGH!
:::[They both stop. Hat Guy walks away, his chair turned 180 degrees. Pushing aside the chair, the character returns with a fiery blowtorch while wearing goggles.]
:::Dave: [holding up a finger] Um.
:::[Hat Guy's computer was so burned, not only steam is coming out of the computer, but even the desk is noticeably burnt. The cable (apparently also burned) hangs from Dave's laptop computer. The used blowtorch is clumsily laid sideways be the side of the desk. Both Hat Guy (whose goggles are pushed off his eye) and Dave are looking at the calamity. The chair is almost out of view. The goggles are on the floor while the chair is nowhere to be seen. Dave and Hat Guy are walking away from the scene.]
:::Dave:
:::* Are you all of a sudden in the mood for Thai food?
:::* Let's try OpenBSD next time...
:::* If you'd done the other one, maybe the popcorn would have popped.
:::* Let's see if rubbing some bacon on it will work.
:::* Let's try Linux next time...

::::'''13th-14th Panes: OpenBSD Branch''' 
::::[13th panel is of a panned view. Dave and Hat Guy are walking on a path away from a house.]
::::[14th panel is back to a "normal camera view".]
::::Dave:
::::* Okay then.
::::* Let's go exploring!
::::* I love Windows.
::::* Guess not.

::'''4th-7th Panes: Other Partition Branch''' 
::[Hat Guy has ??? next to his head to signify confusion. [[Dave]] walks in. Dave is on the other side of the desk with his own laptop computer. Both the computers are connected through Ethernet cable. The two characters are typing on the computer. The two stop typing. Dave has ??? next to his head. Dave had stepped back while Hat Guy is checking on Dave's laptop computer. Hat Guy is holding something rectangular.]
::Dave:
::* Maybe if you cross connect the serial port to video port you'll be able to send the video directly in as an input for the password
::* What's a segfault?
::* I think the cameras need to face each other.
::* I'm not sure spaghetti works as a USB cable...

::'''8th Pane: Video Password Branch''' 
::[Hat Guy and Dave are at sea, both emitting ripples. A shark's fin can be seen close to Dave.]
::Dave:
::* It worked fine for the shark
::* We're definitely getting closer though
::* That didn't work!
::* It would have worked for Solaris.
::* Look, it made perfect sense at the time.
::* Still simpler than it used to be, I guess.

{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Dynamic comics]]
[[Category:April fool's comics]]
[[Category:Comics featuring Hairy]]
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]
[[Category:Comics with color]]
[[Category:Bobcats]]
[[Category:Computers]]
[[Category:Dinosaurs]]
[[Category:Dreams]]
[[Category:Firefly]]
[[Category:Google Maps]]
[[Category:Linux]]
[[Category:LOTR]]
[[Category:Pokémon]]
[[Category:Politics]]
[[Category:Video games]]
[[Category:Star Wars]]

Talk:1350: Lorenz

2014-04-02T23:47:04Z

Zweisteine:

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.61|173.245.50.61]] 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.192|108.162.212.192]] 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........[[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here... and a lot of space below it. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. [http://i.imgur.com/pw2OfOL.png Screenshot here].
UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access."
FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com!
It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

** I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from ''<nowiki><div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')})
</script></div></nowiki>'', and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.224|141.101.89.224]] 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.12|108.162.219.12]] 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is it the same as was used in Externalities? [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?
*Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
*These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
*Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
*Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays
--[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

:If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, though the second-tier options have changed [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1193:_Externalities 1193: Externalities] is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::: I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public '''votes''' for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd [[User:Haithere|Haithere]] ([[User talk:Haithere|talk]]) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program {{unsigned ip|108.162.242.111}}
::: it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.65}}
:::: found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.28|108.162.215.28]] 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error:
Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21
Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null
Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js
Line: 2 -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. ''– [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)''

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.8|108.162.245.8]] 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Has this been found before?
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.73|173.245.55.73]] 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
:Ok, I'm gonna add those. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Great! And now I found another: Pikachu uses Ethylene Dichloride. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6f59d766-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
I'll add it to the but about pikachu in the comic, but the pictures are up to someone else.[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
==Transcipt discussion==
===Design===
*What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
*Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Characters===
*Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** Also he is called Dave here: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3b1a226e-b9c6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Is the right politician = Cueball?
*Who is the left? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Other===
*Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

==Chategories not yet included==
Should they be?
*I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I created [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page [[1350: Lorenz]], but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:1350: Lorenz

2014-04-02T23:33:59Z

Zweisteine:

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. '''[[User:Davidy22|{{Color|#707|David}}y²²]]'''[[User talk:Davidy22|<tt>[talk]</tt>]] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.61|173.245.50.61]] 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.192|108.162.212.192]] 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........[[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here... and a lot of space below it. [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. [http://i.imgur.com/pw2OfOL.png Screenshot here].
UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access."
FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com!
It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled.
[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

** I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from ''<nowiki><div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')})
</script></div></nowiki>'', and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.89.224|141.101.89.224]] 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.12|108.162.219.12]] 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:Is it the same as was used in Externalities? [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?
*Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
*These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
*Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
*Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays
--[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

:If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::Yes, though the second-tier options have changed [[User:H|H]] ([[User talk:H|talk]]) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1193:_Externalities 1193: Externalities] is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:::: I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
::::: I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public '''votes''' for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd [[User:Haithere|Haithere]] ([[User talk:Haithere|talk]]) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
: you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
:: I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program {{unsigned ip|108.162.242.111}}
::: it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.65}}
:::: found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.28|108.162.215.28]] 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.48|173.245.54.48]] 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error:
Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21
Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null
Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js
Line: 2 -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
: It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. ''– [[User:Tbc|tbc]] ([[User talk:Tbc|talk]]) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)''

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant[[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.8|108.162.245.8]] 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd
Has this been found before?
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.73|173.245.55.73]] 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
==Transcipt discussion==
===Design===
*What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
*Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Characters===
*Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** Also he is called Dave here: http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:3b1a226e-b9c6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
** I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Is the right politician = Cueball?
*Who is the left? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

===Other===
*Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

==Chategories not yet included==
Should they be?
*I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
*Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I created [[1350: Lorenz/Images]] with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page [[1350: Lorenz]], but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <nowiki><gallery></nowiki>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. [[User:Daniel Carrero|Daniel Carrero]] ([[User talk:Daniel Carrero|talk]]) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Talk:563: Fermirotica

2014-01-17T23:08:19Z

Zweisteine:

Explanation marked as incorrect. I would do some editing, but I do not have the time or explanation-writing skill to do so effectively.

Issues:

1. The explanation's listed April Fools' joke seems to have no proof; it has no mention in the comic.

2. The title text seems to just be a complaint against Google's methods for statistics (i.e. "I love" is sarcasm). All it says is that Google just wildly guesses, based on unrelated, random events, and calls it statistics.
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 04:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

I doubt that the title text was complaining or sarcastic at all. If I recall correctly, the ability to plug calculations with units into Google was pretty new in 2009, and especially useful, given as he switched his time units from minutes to years. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.234|108.162.231.234]] 17:04, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Except that it specifically states that Google guesses (stats are ballpark) and change based un unrelated occurrences (time of day and your mother's presence). That sounds like either sarcasm, or him actually loving how google doesn't (or didn't at the time) do a very good job with stats. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:563: Fermirotica

2014-01-12T04:26:11Z

Zweisteine: Created page with "Explanation marked as incorrect. I would do some editing, but I do not have the time or explanation-writing skill to do so effectively. Issues: 1. The explanation's listed A..."

563: Fermirotica

2014-01-12T04:18:25Z

Zweisteine:

{{comic
| number = 563
| date = April 1, 2009
| title = Fermirotica
| image = fermirotica.png
| titletext = I love how Google handles dimensional analysis. Stats are ballpark and vary wildly based on time of day and whether your mom is in town.
}}

==Explanation==
{{incomplete|The title text is not explained accurately.}}
Fermi and Hart developed an equation for estimating the probability of intelligent life existing within a certain size sphere of the universe. A similar equation is proposed to estimate the circle within which it is probable two people are having sex. The April Fool's joke is that the equation does not predict if they are having sex with each other. The title text implies Google's more sophisticated analysis programs would also take into account the time of day people are more likely to have sex. It also incorporates the running gag about "your mom", her sexual activity, and how that influences the estimates.
==Transcript==
:Pd Regional Population Density (e.g. 18,600/mi²)
:Xf Average Person's Frequency of Sex (e.g. 80/Year)
:Xd Average Duration of Sex (e.g. 30 Minutes)
:r=sqrt(2/(π*Pd*Xf*Xd))
:On average, someone within distance r of you is having sex.
:[Cueball standing at easel.]
:Cueball: Mmm, That probable couple 150 meters away is so hot. Oh yeah, theoretically work it, baby.
:From out of frame: Hey! No statistical voyeurism!
{{comic discussion}}
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]
[[Category:Sex]]
[[Category:Math]]
[[Category:April fool's comics]]

Talk:1299: I Don't Own a TV

2013-12-09T06:02:32Z

Zweisteine:

Annual Data for households between 1958-1970
http://www.tvhistory.tv/Annual_TV_Households_50-78.JPG

Plotted next to a fitted logarithmic function
http://imgur.com/aVWmQ9z

The negative second derivative of this function
http://imgur.com/xywpEJZ

If someone can find more data for television ownership I'd love to see it :) {{unsigned ip|‎173.245.54.12}}

Can someone explain why Randall believes smugness at not owning a television is decreasing? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.138|199.27.128.138]] 08:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Because as TVs become less relevant, people don't feel smug for not owning one. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.216|141.101.99.216]] 11:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

;Current explanation - logistic curve

The current explanation is total bullshit. The thing with the negative second derivative is just saying, that the more embarrased people are, the more the change of the TV ownership rate will increase, which just means, more and more people will get themselves TVs.
The other point of view is, the more smug you will look like for not owning a TV, the more the change of the TV ownership rate will decline, which means, that less and less people are buying TVs.

It has nothing to do with a logistic curve. The function, which second derivative is depicted in this comic is totally irrelevant.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.19|108.162.231.19]] 08:34, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I have the strong feeling he is talking about a sine wave, not a logistic function. It fits the curve in the comic as well as the condition of f"=-f.
Also, it makes way more sense for the smugness to behave like this over time as for the first 30 years TV is culturally extremely significant and you therefore would want to own one in order to participate. But with declining quality of television and the emergence of the internet you might feel as if you were extremely progressive by not owning one anymore.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.189|108.162.254.189]] 09:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it definitely could be a sine curve. (see: [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%5E2%2Fdx%5E2%28sin%28x%29%29 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%5E2%2Fdx%5E2%28sin%28x%29%29]). If one would neglect the beginning of the function for simplicity, this could be a solution.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.19|108.162.231.19]] 10:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

We bid a tearful farewell to our friend the line break. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.216|141.101.99.216]] 11:50, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%283*pi*x%2F100%2Bpi%2F2%29+from+1945+to+2014 [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the commenter who said that the current explanation is bullshit, but I think he has the cause and effect reversed. Randall is saying that you feel more smug about not owning a TV as a result of observing how quickly TV ownership is becoming more or less trendy. In the 1950's, TV's were catching on quickly and becoming more popular, so you would feel embarrassed for not owning one. Later, the trendiness would start to decline as more people owned one, and you would head towards being smug. In the 2000s, people are giving up TVs because the internet makes them unnecessary. As this happens more and more, there's no point in feeling smug because you're no longer bucking a trend at all. --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] ([[User talk:Kazim|talk]]) 12:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

In my view the title text joke is that smugness is defined as a function of TV ownership when in reality TV ownership is a function of smugness. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 15:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Hold on, the logistic curve gives very reasonable graphs both for ownership of TVs and for the negative second derivative. TV ownership easily fits a logistic curve, as it starts at zero and has to approach some upper limit. The negative second derivative has a very similar shape to the graph in the comic. Here's Wolfram|Alpha for the negative second derivative of a generic logistic curve: <http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=-%28+d%2Fdx+d%2Fdx+%28100%2F%281%2Be%5E-%28.1x%29%29%29%29>. This would suggest that as time goes to infinity, people's feelings about TV ownership approach neutral; they do not oscillate like a sine function. This makes sense, because for the negative second derivative to be a sine function, TV ownership would have to be too, yet TV ownership is unlikely to be periodic. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.229|173.245.55.229]] 16:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I have two issues with this explanation: the first is that it's too long to comfortably read, and I don't think the comic content merits such a long explanation. The other is that it reads too complexly. The point of this wiki is to make xkcd accessible for everyone, but it talks about things like sine waves, oscillation and convergence, which not all readers are going to grok. --[[User:Mynotoar|Mynotoar]] ([[User talk:Mynotoar|talk]]) 17:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

If we're keeping the explanation surrounding the area of "People therefore discussed television programs frequently, as a major social activity.", it maybe ought to be pointed out that major social discussions about TV programmes dropped off as a result of the increase in the number of TV channels and thus (except for ''particularly'' notable ratings-grabbers) the question of "Did you see what was on TV last night?" increasingly needed further qualifying. (However, I'm not sure this is revelevant.) Oh, and I've a feeling I should be feeling smug, right now. Absolutely gorge myself on radio, though. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 21:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I do not see any evidence that this comic's title text refers in any way to a sine curve. If you consider a logistic function modeling TV ownership over time (which would look the similar to a logistic population growth model), you can take the function's second derivative, which vaguely resembles a sine curve, with the important difference that to the sides of the curve, the line becomes more level rather than repeating the curve. I would say the determining factors are the fact that the beginning of the graph is flat (as opposed to the curve just going to zero or showing the end of the previous curve), and the fact that he mentions the "negative second derivative of TV ownership rate," and the TV ownership rate would follow a model similar to a logistic population model, which is not a sine curve, though the second derivative of such a graph would, in fact, represent a sine curve. --[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] 21:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if I'm coming in at the end of an edit war and pouring fuel on the argument, but I think the whole smugness/TV ownership / Programming comments are well made before the last paragraph. I'm confident that Randell's title text is a superficial comment about the shape of the graph. I've edited the last paragraph so there's no mention of sine waves, oscillation, convergence, or interpretation of where the graph starts or where it's going (that seems subjective to me). Just a link to what a "negative second derivative" is, and a statement that the comic resembles that chart. [[User:XQx|XQx]] ([[User talk:XQx|talk]]) 01:02, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Except that graph does closely represent the second derivative graphs I've seen for graphs that start slow, rise suddenly, then level out again, like a population chart, or a chart showing TV ownership over time. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 01:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that, theoretically, something closer to an arctangent fits the number of televisions over time graph better than a logarithmic curve- at least if we consider some of the thousands of years during which nobody owned televisions. Linked below is a plot of arctan(x-2) + 1.3 and its negative second derivative (scaled to fit better in WolframAlpha's output window), the latter of which looks as much like the smugness graph in the comic as anything I've seen so far.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+atan%28x-2%29+%2B+1.3%2C+6%28x-2%29%2F%28x^2-4+x%2B5%29^2+for+x+%3D+0..4
--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.24|173.245.56.24]] 03:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

While the previous explanation of the title text involving the sine function was bogus (it's the second derivative of TV ownership rate, not the second derivative of smugness), the stuff about logistic (or arctangent or other sigmoid) functions is correct (if you believe that TV ownership should follow a sigmoid curve). I think that this can be explained, so I've put that in; hopefully, one can read it without the parentheses to get something understandable to lay folk, and then the parentheses show where Randall's mathematical jargon comes in. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 04:59, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

The "this is incomplete because it needs further information" is not much of an explanation of what needs to be completed. It looks like the tag was added when the explanation was really, really poor and it't now obsolete. I would update it if I could figure out something that is still missing, but at this moment it looks like removing it altogether could be a better option. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.117|173.245.53.117]] 09:54, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

: Agreed. Removed. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 17:28, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I feel quite smug, not having to pay £145.50 a year to watch people wanting to be famous, or wanting to remind people that they used to be famous, screaming for attention on "Strictly Got Talent Factor On Ice Brother" [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.218|141.101.99.218]] 16:06, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
:As a fellow Britisher, similarly not paying for (or needing!) a TV Licence, I think this might need explaining to the furriners here. There are different payment methods (<strike>up to</strike> down to, and including, purely commercial channels, but also the same cable/satelite subscriptions as we might ''also'' have to make) supporting TV channels, elsewhere. And how do ''you'' deal with the TV Licencing people, pestering you about your TV that you (I presume) do not have? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 02:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:: 5 simple words: "I don't have a TV" and they go away for a couple of years. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.211|141.101.98.211]] 11:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

;Sigmoid function or Sine curve

I'm sorry, but the {{w|Sigmoid function}} doesn't fit the graph. A sine looks much more closer but in fact it is some like f(x) + g(x), the second part looks much more like a sine (but also not accurate) while the first part looks different. And only the second derivative on this graph is important. So g(x) looks similar to a sine and the second derivative shows just an inverted plot, that's the point. There is no real math function.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:39, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

:Back-tracing the provided graph, the (negative) second derivative is clearly near zero up until nearly 1950, declines to a minima around 1965 (it appears to be around 40 pixels per decade, along the scale) before crossing the zero mark at 1980 to a maxima around 2001/2002-ish, then falling again.
:Thus the (positive) first derivative (with an unknown constant of offset) is near horizontal until the 1950s, rises to its steepest in 1965 (i.e. the acceleration in rate of growth is the highest... consistent the uptake of the 'new' technology being popular), continues upwards but finally hits a maxima (in actual rate of growth of TV ownership) in 1980, before tailing off (probably still a rate of ''increase'', but near saturation level. Just after the millenium is around the time I'd expect to see a rise in Large Screen TVs being sold (plasma TVs were late '90s, and we're starting to see proper flatscreen LCDs and, later, OLED versions).
:So, can we relate that to the 'zeroeth' derivative? (i.e. The actual rate of TV ownership... or is it sales..? May be both if you allow for multi-TV homes.) Starting at zero ownership, there was a slow uptake around the 1950s (for the UK, 1953 - the year of the Coronation - was supposed to be the start of the mass-market TV revolution, but perhaps only around one house a street actually ''getting'' a TV for the event... still, it'd somewhat match the quick start of the (negative) curve in the cartoon). The mid 1960s was (amongst other things) the height of the Space Race, and thus in the white-heat of that particular phase of technology. By the 1980s, most existing households without TVs weren't ''going'' to get them, so uptake would have flattened from that point onwards, until eventually the millenium came about and newer/additional sets were installed in houses during that particular credit-boom and period of techno-consumerism.
:IIW, I think it matches a (convoluted, multi-inflected) S-curve from zero on upwards. Possibly beyond 100% if multi-TV ownership counts to technically allow the original curve to strike up above that value. I may have zero TVs operating in my house but most families I know have at ''least'' two of them. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 02:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

As you (Dgbrt) say, the sine curve doesn't fit the beginning (and it would require TV ownership rate to also fit a sine curve, which is implausible). But the sigmoid curve fits it fine! People above have posted some negative second derivatives of sigmoid curves, and they match the graph. Here is a broad selection: [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-4%2F%281%2Be^%28-x%29%29 0], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-erf%28sqrt%28pi%29%2F2*x%29 1], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-tanh+x 2], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-2%2Fpi+*+gd%28pi%2F2+*+x%29 3], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-x%2Fsqrt%281%2Bx^2%29 4], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-2%2Fpi+*+atan+%28pi%2F2+*+x%29 5], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-x%2F%281%2B|x|%29 6] (list derived from Wikipedia's article). I think that Randall's curve fits best between 1 and 2 (it all breaks down when you get to 6). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 04:53, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Am I blind or do I hallucinate? The sigmoid curves look very different, just let's say it is a graph and explain the second derivative.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:47, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

::The main point of this seems to be smugness being relative to how odd you are compared to the average. The problem here is the oddness is by choice or simply you can't afford one in the early days. The difference towards the more modern era will be that people will feel smug for not having a TV, but may also feel smug for owning way above average many TVs. Other options also should have altered the graph, such as multi-function TV/Monitors(which I'm using mostly for a monitor and occasionally as a TV for science documentary) and smart phones/tablets which got TV functions, on the other hand, people may own a TV as part of a home entertainment system, which means what is showed in the channels is completely irrelavent. The increase of options has reduced the smugness for not owning one, because there are so many things with a TV function and so many things a TV can do, not owning one means that you are almost technologically isolated, which most would feel embarassed. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.228|173.245.62.228]] 18:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm only talking about the sigmoid graph, it's simply wrong. I never did criticize the interpretations and explanations, that function simply doesn't match the plot at the comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Check for blindness or hallucination:

* Do you agree that Randall's graph looks more or less like the 7 graphs that I linked above, especially the first few? (Same basic shape.)

* Do you agree that Wolfram Alpha produced those graphs after I properly asked it about the negative second derivatives of various functions? (Check for words "second derivative" and minus sign.)

* Do you agree that these functions are all listed on the Wikipedia page about sigmoid curves? (Graph 0 matches the formula for a logistic function, multiplied by 4 to put it on the same scale as the others; graphs 1 through 6 have the same formula as the graph on Wikipedia comparing six sigmoid curves.)

If you can see all of this, then you are not blind or hallucinating.

Nota bene: nobody is claiming that Randall's graph is itself a sigmoid curve. It is the negative second derivative of a sigmoid curve. This is what it should be, since Randall conjectures that it's the negative second derivative of the TV ownership rate, and the TV ownership rate should follow a sigmoid curve.

—[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 06:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

:First: Randall does not publish a transcript after the next comic is released because he is laughing about discussions like here.
:But more Randall didn't use a function, he was only talking about the second derivative of that plot.
:So, we just have to explain that '''derivative''', which is still more like a (minus) sine. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:42, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

:: Umm... no, actually, "he was only talking about the second derivative" of the (not-shown) TV-ownership function. The smugness plot (depicted) looks quite like the negative second derivatives of sigmoids, doesn't it? -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.51.210|173.245.51.210]] 01:32, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Holy crap, as {{w|Sigmoid function|wiki}} says: "A sigmoid formula is a mathematical function having an "S" shape (sigmoid curve)." It looks like this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gjl-t%28x%29.svg graph] and really does NOT match this [http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/i_dont_own_a_tv.png one]. There is just no simple graph to explain Randall's plot.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that the new explanation for the title text, while somewhat accurate is a bit overcomplex.

1. There is probably a simpler way to explain what a second derivative is (not necessarily diffently described; it's just a bit jumbled up in the description).

2. For the purposes of explanation, I doubt that so much detail is needed, especially because the real-life meaningfulness of the second derivative of TV ownership doesn't seem like much at all.

I would suggest something like this, but with a bit more depth: The title text sugests that smugness and the second derivative of TV ownership are related. The derivative of a graph is its rate of change at any given point, and the second derivative is the rate of change in the first derivative. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 06:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1299: I Don't Own a TV

2013-12-09T06:01:40Z

Zweisteine:

Annual Data for households between 1958-1970
http://www.tvhistory.tv/Annual_TV_Households_50-78.JPG

Plotted next to a fitted logarithmic function
http://imgur.com/aVWmQ9z

The negative second derivative of this function
http://imgur.com/xywpEJZ

If someone can find more data for television ownership I'd love to see it :) {{unsigned ip|‎173.245.54.12}}

Can someone explain why Randall believes smugness at not owning a television is decreasing? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.138|199.27.128.138]] 08:31, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Because as TVs become less relevant, people don't feel smug for not owning one. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.216|141.101.99.216]] 11:44, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

;Current explanation - logistic curve

The current explanation is total bullshit. The thing with the negative second derivative is just saying, that the more embarrased people are, the more the change of the TV ownership rate will increase, which just means, more and more people will get themselves TVs.
The other point of view is, the more smug you will look like for not owning a TV, the more the change of the TV ownership rate will decline, which means, that less and less people are buying TVs.

It has nothing to do with a logistic curve. The function, which second derivative is depicted in this comic is totally irrelevant.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.19|108.162.231.19]] 08:34, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I have the strong feeling he is talking about a sine wave, not a logistic function. It fits the curve in the comic as well as the condition of f"=-f.
Also, it makes way more sense for the smugness to behave like this over time as for the first 30 years TV is culturally extremely significant and you therefore would want to own one in order to participate. But with declining quality of television and the emergence of the internet you might feel as if you were extremely progressive by not owning one anymore.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.189|108.162.254.189]] 09:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it definitely could be a sine curve. (see: [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%5E2%2Fdx%5E2%28sin%28x%29%29 http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=d%5E2%2Fdx%5E2%28sin%28x%29%29]). If one would neglect the beginning of the function for simplicity, this could be a solution.

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.19|108.162.231.19]] 10:07, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

We bid a tearful farewell to our friend the line break. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.216|141.101.99.216]] 11:50, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=sin%283*pi*x%2F100%2Bpi%2F2%29+from+1945+to+2014 [[User:Xhfz|Xhfz]] ([[User talk:Xhfz|talk]]) 12:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree with the commenter who said that the current explanation is bullshit, but I think he has the cause and effect reversed. Randall is saying that you feel more smug about not owning a TV as a result of observing how quickly TV ownership is becoming more or less trendy. In the 1950's, TV's were catching on quickly and becoming more popular, so you would feel embarrassed for not owning one. Later, the trendiness would start to decline as more people owned one, and you would head towards being smug. In the 2000s, people are giving up TVs because the internet makes them unnecessary. As this happens more and more, there's no point in feeling smug because you're no longer bucking a trend at all. --[[User:Kazim|Kazim]] ([[User talk:Kazim|talk]]) 12:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

In my view the title text joke is that smugness is defined as a function of TV ownership when in reality TV ownership is a function of smugness. [[User:Ralfoide|Ralfoide]] ([[User talk:Ralfoide|talk]]) 15:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Hold on, the logistic curve gives very reasonable graphs both for ownership of TVs and for the negative second derivative. TV ownership easily fits a logistic curve, as it starts at zero and has to approach some upper limit. The negative second derivative has a very similar shape to the graph in the comic. Here's Wolfram|Alpha for the negative second derivative of a generic logistic curve: <http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=-%28+d%2Fdx+d%2Fdx+%28100%2F%281%2Be%5E-%28.1x%29%29%29%29>. This would suggest that as time goes to infinity, people's feelings about TV ownership approach neutral; they do not oscillate like a sine function. This makes sense, because for the negative second derivative to be a sine function, TV ownership would have to be too, yet TV ownership is unlikely to be periodic. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.55.229|173.245.55.229]] 16:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I have two issues with this explanation: the first is that it's too long to comfortably read, and I don't think the comic content merits such a long explanation. The other is that it reads too complexly. The point of this wiki is to make xkcd accessible for everyone, but it talks about things like sine waves, oscillation and convergence, which not all readers are going to grok. --[[User:Mynotoar|Mynotoar]] ([[User talk:Mynotoar|talk]]) 17:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

If we're keeping the explanation surrounding the area of "People therefore discussed television programs frequently, as a major social activity.", it maybe ought to be pointed out that major social discussions about TV programmes dropped off as a result of the increase in the number of TV channels and thus (except for ''particularly'' notable ratings-grabbers) the question of "Did you see what was on TV last night?" increasingly needed further qualifying. (However, I'm not sure this is revelevant.) Oh, and I've a feeling I should be feeling smug, right now. Absolutely gorge myself on radio, though. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 21:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I do not see any evidence that this comic's title text refers in any way to a sine curve. If you consider a logistic function modeling TV ownership over time (which would look the similar to a logistic population growth model), you can take the function's second derivative, which vaguely resembles a sine curve, with the important difference that to the sides of the curve, the line becomes more level rather than repeating the curve. I would say the determining factors are the fact that the beginning of the graph is flat (as opposed to the curve just going to zero or showing the end of the previous curve), and the fact that he mentions the "negative second derivative of TV ownership rate," and the TV ownership rate would follow a model similar to a logistic population model, which is not a sine curve, though the second derivative of such a graph would, in fact, represent a sine curve. --[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] 21:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if I'm coming in at the end of an edit war and pouring fuel on the argument, but I think the whole smugness/TV ownership / Programming comments are well made before the last paragraph. I'm confident that Randell's title text is a superficial comment about the shape of the graph. I've edited the last paragraph so there's no mention of sine waves, oscillation, convergence, or interpretation of where the graph starts or where it's going (that seems subjective to me). Just a link to what a "negative second derivative" is, and a statement that the comic resembles that chart. [[User:XQx|XQx]] ([[User talk:XQx|talk]]) 01:02, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Except that graph does closely represent the second derivative graphs I've seen for graphs that start slow, rise suddenly, then level out again, like a population chart, or a chart showing TV ownership over time. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 01:18, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that, theoretically, something closer to an arctangent fits the number of televisions over time graph better than a logarithmic curve- at least if we consider some of the thousands of years during which nobody owned televisions. Linked below is a plot of arctan(x-2) + 1.3 and its negative second derivative (scaled to fit better in WolframAlpha's output window), the latter of which looks as much like the smugness graph in the comic as anything I've seen so far.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=plot+atan%28x-2%29+%2B+1.3%2C+6%28x-2%29%2F%28x^2-4+x%2B5%29^2+for+x+%3D+0..4
--[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.24|173.245.56.24]] 03:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

While the previous explanation of the title text involving the sine function was bogus (it's the second derivative of TV ownership rate, not the second derivative of smugness), the stuff about logistic (or arctangent or other sigmoid) functions is correct (if you believe that TV ownership should follow a sigmoid curve). I think that this can be explained, so I've put that in; hopefully, one can read it without the parentheses to get something understandable to lay folk, and then the parentheses show where Randall's mathematical jargon comes in. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 04:59, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

The "this is incomplete because it needs further information" is not much of an explanation of what needs to be completed. It looks like the tag was added when the explanation was really, really poor and it't now obsolete. I would update it if I could figure out something that is still missing, but at this moment it looks like removing it altogether could be a better option. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.117|173.245.53.117]] 09:54, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

: Agreed. Removed. —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 17:28, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

I feel quite smug, not having to pay £145.50 a year to watch people wanting to be famous, or wanting to remind people that they used to be famous, screaming for attention on "Strictly Got Talent Factor On Ice Brother" [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.218|141.101.99.218]] 16:06, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
:As a fellow Britisher, similarly not paying for (or needing!) a TV Licence, I think this might need explaining to the furriners here. There are different payment methods (<strike>up to</strike> down to, and including, purely commercial channels, but also the same cable/satelite subscriptions as we might ''also'' have to make) supporting TV channels, elsewhere. And how do ''you'' deal with the TV Licencing people, pestering you about your TV that you (I presume) do not have? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 02:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:: 5 simple words: "I don't have a TV" and they go away for a couple of years. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.211|141.101.98.211]] 11:27, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

;Sigmoid function or Sine curve

I'm sorry, but the {{w|Sigmoid function}} doesn't fit the graph. A sine looks much more closer but in fact it is some like f(x) + g(x), the second part looks much more like a sine (but also not accurate) while the first part looks different. And only the second derivative on this graph is important. So g(x) looks similar to a sine and the second derivative shows just an inverted plot, that's the point. There is no real math function.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:39, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

:Back-tracing the provided graph, the (negative) second derivative is clearly near zero up until nearly 1950, declines to a minima around 1965 (it appears to be around 40 pixels per decade, along the scale) before crossing the zero mark at 1980 to a maxima around 2001/2002-ish, then falling again.
:Thus the (positive) first derivative (with an unknown constant of offset) is near horizontal until the 1950s, rises to its steepest in 1965 (i.e. the acceleration in rate of growth is the highest... consistent the uptake of the 'new' technology being popular), continues upwards but finally hits a maxima (in actual rate of growth of TV ownership) in 1980, before tailing off (probably still a rate of ''increase'', but near saturation level. Just after the millenium is around the time I'd expect to see a rise in Large Screen TVs being sold (plasma TVs were late '90s, and we're starting to see proper flatscreen LCDs and, later, OLED versions).
:So, can we relate that to the 'zeroeth' derivative? (i.e. The actual rate of TV ownership... or is it sales..? May be both if you allow for multi-TV homes.) Starting at zero ownership, there was a slow uptake around the 1950s (for the UK, 1953 - the year of the Coronation - was supposed to be the start of the mass-market TV revolution, but perhaps only around one house a street actually ''getting'' a TV for the event... still, it'd somewhat match the quick start of the (negative) curve in the cartoon). The mid 1960s was (amongst other things) the height of the Space Race, and thus in the white-heat of that particular phase of technology. By the 1980s, most existing households without TVs weren't ''going'' to get them, so uptake would have flattened from that point onwards, until eventually the millenium came about and newer/additional sets were installed in houses during that particular credit-boom and period of techno-consumerism.
:IIW, I think it matches a (convoluted, multi-inflected) S-curve from zero on upwards. Possibly beyond 100% if multi-TV ownership counts to technically allow the original curve to strike up above that value. I may have zero TVs operating in my house but most families I know have at ''least'' two of them. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.229|141.101.99.229]] 02:05, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

As you (Dgbrt) say, the sine curve doesn't fit the beginning (and it would require TV ownership rate to also fit a sine curve, which is implausible). But the sigmoid curve fits it fine! People above have posted some negative second derivatives of sigmoid curves, and they match the graph. Here is a broad selection: [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-4%2F%281%2Be^%28-x%29%29 0], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-erf%28sqrt%28pi%29%2F2*x%29 1], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-tanh+x 2], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-2%2Fpi+*+gd%28pi%2F2+*+x%29 3], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-x%2Fsqrt%281%2Bx^2%29 4], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-2%2Fpi+*+atan+%28pi%2F2+*+x%29 5], [http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2nd+derivative+-x%2F%281%2B|x|%29 6] (list derived from Wikipedia's article). I think that Randall's curve fits best between 1 and 2 (it all breaks down when you get to 6). —[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 04:53, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
:Am I blind or do I hallucinate? The sigmoid curves look very different, just let's say it is a graph and explain the second derivative.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:47, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

::The main point of this seems to be smugness being relative to how odd you are compared to the average. The problem here is the oddness is by choice or simply you can't afford one in the early days. The difference towards the more modern era will be that people will feel smug for not having a TV, but may also feel smug for owning way above average many TVs. Other options also should have altered the graph, such as multi-function TV/Monitors(which I'm using mostly for a monitor and occasionally as a TV for science documentary) and smart phones/tablets which got TV functions, on the other hand, people may own a TV as part of a home entertainment system, which means what is showed in the channels is completely irrelavent. The increase of options has reduced the smugness for not owning one, because there are so many things with a TV function and so many things a TV can do, not owning one means that you are almost technologically isolated, which most would feel embarassed. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.62.228|173.245.62.228]] 18:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm only talking about the sigmoid graph, it's simply wrong. I never did criticize the interpretations and explanations, that function simply doesn't match the plot at the comic. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Check for blindness or hallucination:

* Do you agree that Randall's graph looks more or less like the 7 graphs that I linked above, especially the first few? (Same basic shape.)

* Do you agree that Wolfram Alpha produced those graphs after I properly asked it about the negative second derivatives of various functions? (Check for words "second derivative" and minus sign.)

* Do you agree that these functions are all listed on the Wikipedia page about sigmoid curves? (Graph 0 matches the formula for a logistic function, multiplied by 4 to put it on the same scale as the others; graphs 1 through 6 have the same formula as the graph on Wikipedia comparing six sigmoid curves.)

If you can see all of this, then you are not blind or hallucinating.

Nota bene: nobody is claiming that Randall's graph is itself a sigmoid curve. It is the negative second derivative of a sigmoid curve. This is what it should be, since Randall conjectures that it's the negative second derivative of the TV ownership rate, and the TV ownership rate should follow a sigmoid curve.

—[[User:TobyBartels|TobyBartels]] ([[User talk:TobyBartels|talk]]) 06:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

:First: Randall does not publish a transcript after the next comic is released because he is laughing about discussions like here.
:But more Randall didn't use a function, he was only talking about the second derivative of that plot.
:So, we just have to explain that '''derivative''', which is still more like a (minus) sine. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:42, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

:: Umm... no, actually, "he was only talking about the second derivative" of the (not-shown) TV-ownership function. The smugness plot (depicted) looks quite like the negative second derivatives of sigmoids, doesn't it? -- [[Special:Contributions/173.245.51.210|173.245.51.210]] 01:32, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
:::Holy crap, as {{w|Sigmoid function|wiki}} says: "A sigmoid formula is a mathematical function having an "S" shape (sigmoid curve)." It looks like this [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gjl-t%28x%29.svg graph] and really does NOT match this [http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/i_dont_own_a_tv.png one]. There is just no simple graph to explain Randall's plot.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:20, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

I think that the new explanation for the title text, while somewhat accurate is a bit overcomplex.
1. There is probably a simpler way to explain what a second derivative is (not necessarily diffently described; it's just a bit jumbled up in the description).
2. For the purposes of explanation, I doubt that so much detail is needed, especially because the real-life meaningfulness of the second derivative of TV ownership doesn't seem like much at all.
I would suggest something like this, but with a bit more depth: The title text sugests that smugness and the second derivative of TV ownership are related. The derivative of a graph is its rate of change at any given point, and the second derivative is the rate of change in the first derivative. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 06:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

User talk:Zweisteine

2013-12-09T05:55:05Z

Zweisteine: /* Begrüßung/Greeting */

==Begrüßung/Greeting==
Hallo Zweisteine,
dein Vornahme ist vermutlich Blcert. Wenn das richtig ist; ich brauche Unterstützung für das für 2014 geplante Projekt für Deutsche Übersetzungen. Jede Hilfe ist willkommen.

Hello Twostones,
your first name is probably Blcert. If that is true; I do need help on German translations for the planned translation project to the German language in 2014. Every help is welcome.

--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:50, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not actually German, and I don't know the language. I wish I could help you, but I doubt I'd be of much use. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 01:17, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
:No problem, but why Zweisteine/Twostones? It's a pun on Einstein, isn't it?--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:40, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

<_< >_> <_< Maaayyybbeee... [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 05:55, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Talk:1299: I Don't Own a TV

2013-12-05T01:18:58Z

Zweisteine:

User talk:Zweisteine

2013-12-05T01:17:08Z

Zweisteine: /* Begrüßung/Greeting */

User:Zweisteine

2013-12-04T21:39:58Z

Zweisteine: Created page with "Twostones"

Twostones

Talk:1299: I Don't Own a TV

2013-12-04T21:39:17Z

Zweisteine:

Talk:1299: I Don't Own a TV

2013-12-04T21:38:44Z

Zweisteine: