https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=162.158.89.61&feedformat=atomexplain xkcd - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T09:04:56ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2498:_Forest_Walk&diff=216065Talk:2498: Forest Walk2021-08-05T08:13:16Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Have just added a transcript. Hope I did good! :) -Lance ([[Special:Contributions/172.70.126.211|172.70.126.211]] 02:40, 5 August 2021 (UTC))<br />
<br />
Wonder what Beret Guy would do if Cooper said, "I don't have it any more," since some of the money was discovered, badly deteriorated and partially buried, along the banks of the Columbia River back in 1980, as verified by serial numbers on the found currency. Given the absence of any other evidence, it was assumed that the hijacker had gotten separated from the money either during or right after the jump, the found currency had been deposited as flotsam at its discovery point through the actions of the river itself, and the rest of the money was still somewhere in the Pacific Northwest awaiting similar discovery, [[User:RAGBRAIvet|RAGBRAIvet]] ([[User talk:RAGBRAIvet|talk]]) 04:23, 5 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
If it can be considered that the comic is a reference to random walk (in a forest), can it also be considered a reference to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_forest random forests] ? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.68.73|141.101.68.73]] 07:14, 5 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I feel like there should be a D.B. Cooper category at this point. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.52|141.101.104.52]] 07:51, 5 August 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hey there, I think the alt text is also a reference to https://xkcd.com/2390/ ? Kind regards :) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 08:13, 5 August 2021 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2496:_Mine_Captcha&diff=215836Talk:2496: Mine Captcha2021-07-30T22:27:33Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Mines at:<br />
<br />
+----+<br />
| |<br />
|** |<br />
| * *|<br />
| |<br />
+----+<br />
<br />
[[User:Ezist|Ezist]] ([[User talk:Ezist|talk]]) 14:42, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:+1234<br />
:A2 1 <br />
:B??3 <br />
:C3? ?<br />
:D 1 1<br />
:concur.<br />
<br />
AKA<br />
<br />
. . . .<br />
* * . .<br />
. * . *<br />
. . . .<br />
<br />
Should be mentioned that it's most probably easier to run a script that solves this puzzle that to explain minesweeper to the majority of people, so this captcha seems pretty useless<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.72|162.158.92.72]] 15:56, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Writing a script to solve Minesweeper is a great exercise and helps to build a guaranteed-solvable game (which, IMO, is a good thing), but it won't usually start with image recognition. I'm not sure how hard it would be to write an image solver, especially if - unlike in this example - you'd need to dig some cells to finish solving it. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.59|108.162.250.59]] 16:20, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think that it would be better to explain why there is mine in B3 and D3 (due to the ones) because you then have the full solution. I think that the curent explanation isn't complete enough for someone who don't know minesweeper to understand the solution<br />
Maybe it is only me but I think that it would be less confusing to have column marked with letter and line with number. i don't know if there is any standard for that. I am used to excel way of doing it [[Special:Contributions/162.158.50.27|162.158.50.27]] 16:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I am soooo disappointed that the cursed minesweeper game is not playable. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.79|108.162.221.79]] 16:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is something supposedto happen when I click on a box? I tried this in Chrome, IE, and Firefox, and nothing happens. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.170|172.70.110.170]] 16:18, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hello. I have edited the image to include flags or bombs to mark the places. But as a new user I am not allowed to upload images.<br />
If somebody is willing to receive them I could email them. [[User:Rps|Rps]] ([[User talk:Rps|talk]]) 17:10, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The title is eerily similar to Mein Kampf<br />
<br />
The explanation repeats "this is hard because in Minesweeper you're supposed to press the buttons without mines" a lot.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.108|172.70.130.108]] 18:23, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
:As a native German speaker I do not think the title sounds similar. The German Mein is a bit more open than the English Mine which is spoken a bit longer. Kampf has one syllable and ends with a triple consonant, captcha has two syllables and ends with a vocal. In Mein Kampf the emphasis is on Kampf, in Mine Captcha it is on Mine. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.128|162.158.89.128]] 22:26, 30 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I think that explanation misses the fact that images in captcha are in randomized order and do not match with actual position on real board and are actually, which can be deducted from fact it's using different colors and font, from multiple separate games. Therefore 'solving' it gives no actual information. <br />
[[User:Kalumniatoris|Kalumniatoris]] ([[User talk:Kalumniatoris|talk]]) 20:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2494:_Flawed_Data&diff=215637Talk:2494: Flawed Data2021-07-27T10:34:55Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
For the [[1258: First|first]] time in a very long time I was the [[269: TCMP|first]] to make an attempt at the main explanation. I guess this comic came out very late then? Or just late up on explain xkcd? Seems like the Monday comic first came up on Tuesday in many countries including those in Europe. But guess it was still Monday in the US, at least in the western parts? I hope this is not as bad an attempt as Cueball's research strategies in the last panel :-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:05, 27 July 2021 (UTC)<br />
: Isn't it related to a recently published article[https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/577819-AI-Models-to-Analyze-Cancer-Images-Take-Shortcuts-that-Introduce-Bias/ [1]][https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-24698-1 [2]] about bias introduced into AI by humanly-biased data?</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2119:_Video_Orientation&diff=1704942119: Video Orientation2019-03-04T19:54:10Z<p>162.158.89.61: /* Explanation */ questionable</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 2119<br />
| date = March 4, 2019<br />
| title = Video Orientation<br />
| image = video_orientation.png<br />
| titletext = CIRCULAR VIDEO - PROS: Solves aspect ratio problem. CONS: Never trust anyone who talks to you from inside a circle.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|This was created by a TRUSTWORTHY CIRCULAR VIDEO. Nothing about Bold and Dynamic. Bad dubious template. Better explanation on horizontal and vertical needed. DO NOT DELETE THIS TOO SOON (It already was once.}}<br />
<br />
This comic compares different pros and cons of 3 video angles, one of which entirely made-up.<br />
<br />
Horizontal angling is: <br />
<br />
1. Good for people not used to phones, and has been used for centuries. (True)<br />
<br />
2. Not the best at capturing a human's entire body, without also capturing much of their surroundings. (True)<br />
<br />
3. Potentially uncomfortable for the one making the recording to maintain over a long period of time, as most phones were designed for vertical holding. (True)<br />
<br />
4. A more accurate visualization of the way humans view the world; we view approximately 150 degrees horizontally and only 50 degrees vertically. (Not stated in the comic)<br />
<br />
Vertical angling is: <br />
<br />
1. The norm for most users capturing video on their smartphone. (Questionable)<br />
<br />
2. Not ideal for capturing the background. (True, when not used in panoramic view)<br />
<br />
3. Better at capturing the whole body of a human subject. (True)<br />
<br />
4. Is less stressful on the hands of the one holding the mobile recording device. (Questionable)<br />
<br />
[[Randall]] does love a good [https://explainxkcd.com/690/ compromise], so he suggests "Diagonal Angling" as a third option to satisfy the needs of both types of user.<br />
<br />
Diagonal angling is: <br />
<br />
1. Not a standard format of video. {{Citation needed}} (True)<br />
<br />
2. Equally annoying to all viewers. (Almost certainly true)<br />
<br />
3. Flawless, as in perfect in every way. {{Dubious}} (False)<br />
<br />
The issue with this is that diagonal angling fails to fully capture the benefits of either horizontal or vertical angling.<br />
<br />
The titletext quip about circular video would be a reference to having a demon trapped inside a summoning circle, hence not trusting anything that would be said to you.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
{| class="wikitable"<br />
|-<br />
! Video Orientation<br />
! Pros<br />
! Cons<br />
|-<br />
| Horizontal<br />
| Looks normal to old people<br />
Format used by a century of cinema<br />
| Humans are taller than are wide<br />
I'm not turning my phone sideways<br />
|-<br />
| Vertical<br />
| How most normal people shoot and watch video now so we may as well accept it<br />
| Human world is mostly a horizontal plane<br />
|-<br />
| Diagonal<br />
| Bold and dynamic<br />
Equally annoying to all viewers<br />
<br />
Good compromise<br />
| None<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Compromise]]</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2117:_Differentiation_and_Integration&diff=170234Talk:2117: Differentiation and Integration2019-02-27T20:14:26Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Darn, I have no idea what this comic is about. Randal has eluded my yet again. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 17:43, 27 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Calculus. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.143|162.158.79.143]] 18:16, 27 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
And Calc 2 is why I stopped being a Computer Science major and moved (eventually) to majoring in English. Consistent 4.0s in math through Trig and Calc I ... 1.6 in Calc II, retook and got a 1.8. Without the Calc, couldn't do the physics; without the physics, couldn't get my 2-yr degree and move on from community college to a full university. I don't know what all the integration stuff in the flowchart is (since I didn't do well in Calc and it was a long time ago), but there's so very many things that become [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonelementary_integral nonelementary integrals] that all sorts of special tricks have to be employed for things that look like they should be easy. It's like having a problem that's very easy to do division on, but requires special advanced mathematical tricks to use multiplication upon.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.208|108.162.216.208]] 19:07, 27 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Basic ideas:<br />
Integration by parts is the reverse of the Product Rule.<br />
Substitution is the reverse of the Chain Rule.<br />
Cauchy's Formula gives the result of a contour integration in the complex plane, using "singularities" of the integrand.<br />
Partial fractions is just splitting up one complex fraction into a sum of simple fractions, which is relevant because they are easier to integrate.<br />
Stokes theorem is the relationship between an integral over an area, and an integral over the boundary of said area.<br />
Riemann integration was the first rigorous definition of integration. This has been superseded by Lesbesgue integration.<br />
Bessel functions are like 2d versions of sin and cos, and turn up sometimes when doing integration.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 20:14, 27 February 2019 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2116:_.NORM_Normal_File_Format&diff=170196Talk:2116: .NORM Normal File Format2019-02-27T14:54:49Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
Oh man, I don’t know whether to laugh or passive aggressively link people this comic. [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 16:55, 25 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:''Mumbles about special places in hell for people that deserve links of this comic'' [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.90|162.158.90.90]] 08:11, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
::link it to them? send it in a weird data format, including notification bar of a phone, etc.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:34, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:::I think [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Flag this] needs to be here. [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 12:52, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:::: I will take a photo of the comic on my screen with my phone, send that to my PC, print it out onto paper, take a photo of that (on a wooden table), embed THAT photo into an Excel sheet comment, take a photo of THAT and embed into a Word Document, and send to my customers. They would find nothing untoward about this, based on how they send me error reports...[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 14:54, 27 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
At the moment I'm seeing " https://twitter.com/openelex/status/853977391747801088 " as the title text [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.82|108.162.216.82]] 17:36, 25 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:That’s because the comic is a link, and clicking on it will take you there. The title text is correct, though. [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 17:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:: You prankster Randall. On mobile, we can only see the link **in text** as the title text. Am I to believe this, as another example of human mangling of information into an unreadable form, is an accident? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 19:01, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Reminds me of [https://thedailywtf.com/articles/Web_0_0x2e_1 Web 0.1 at TheDailyWTF].[[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.113|162.158.79.113]] 19:01, 25 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Why the bloody hell is everyone censoring me???[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.202|108.162.245.202]] 21:47, 25 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:From the revision history, the only things that look like they could be interpreted as being censored are the "JEWISH SHILL" thing from the (no longer present) "incomplete" tag, which is hate speech, and the "SOON THE TRUTH WILL BE REVEALED" thing that briefly replaced all of the actual content, which is vandalism. Both are considered unacceptable. See also [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1357:_Free_Speech xkcd #1357] [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.22|162.158.214.22]] 03:53, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm on my phone but can someone please work this link into the explanation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glitch_art thanks<br />
:Done. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.173|108.162.246.173]] 01:20, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The "share" functionality on mobile systems may serve as a rather catch-all protocol. On PC not many apps have this in mind.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.68.141.148|172.68.141.148]] 02:43, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Could someone do a short explanation of what absentee precincts are? A (quick) google search could not answer that question to me, and I think for many who do not deal with the topic whichever absentee precincts refer to will have the same question... --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 08:07, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I love .NORM files, they compress so well: https://explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1683:_Digital_Data [[Special:Contributions/162.158.78.178|162.158.78.178]] 17:42, 26 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Is this really all that common? Am I the only one who came to explainxkcd because I only half got the joke? Sure, a photo of a screen with data is useless and stupid, but why make a comic about it? This has never happened to me. [[User:Jqavins|Jqavins]] ([[User talk:Jqavins|talk]]) 13:54, 27 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:It is really all that common. So common, in fact, that the original XKCD comic links to {{https://twitter.com/openelex/status/853977391747801088 this}}. That is on a government scale. Yes, it’s annoying. [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 14:13, 27 February 2019 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2113:_Physics_Suppression&diff=1698092113: Physics Suppression2019-02-18T19:27:50Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 2113<br />
| date = February 18, 2019<br />
| title = Physics Suppression<br />
| image = physics_suppression.png<br />
| titletext = If physics had a mafia, I'm pretty sure the BICEP2 mess would have ended in bloodshed.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by the Physics Mafia. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
[[White Hat]] is mad at physicists in general and directs his fury at [[Megan]], a physicist. He has a theory and blames physicists for suppressing it. He believes that no one takes it seriously because his theory would disrupt the standard model in physics. He believes they do this because his theory would be inconvenient to accept, causing them to have to change their current models. <br />
<br />
Megan is not taking him seriously and instead states that she did not know that physicists had a Mafia that was able to suppress anyone from publishing annoying results. She continues that if such a group were there to do so, then why were they not there to stop the people who published results about dark energy? <br />
<br />
She acknowledges that the "dark energy people" were awarded a {{w|Nobel Prize}} (in {{w|List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Physics#Laureates|2011}}), but she's still mad at them for the "trouble" this new concept caused for other physicists, including her.<br />
<br />
{{w|Dark energy}} is an unknown form of energy which is hypothesized to permeate all of space, tending to accelerate the expansion of the universe. Even though "dark energy" is a direct consequence of {{w|Albert Einstein|Albert Einstein's}} "{{w|cosmological constant}}" in the field equations of {{w|general relativity}}, its actual discovery was still seen as a surprise within the physics community. Einstein called the cosmological constant his "greatest blunder"{{Citation needed}}, but the concept was revived after the observation that cosmic expansion was accelerating. In the comic, Megan says that if scientists were able to suppress inconvenient ideas, dark energy would likely have been such a case.<br />
<br />
It should be noted that White Hat doesn't state that he actually has some results, but just a theory that contradicts known physics. The reason the "dark energy people" got a Nobel Prize is that the experiments and measurements show that they were onto something real. It seems like White Hat currently only has a model, and not data, to back his theory up which is probably why his theory is being ignored (which he decides to interpret as "suppression").<br />
<br />
The title text mentions {{w|BICEP2}} (Background Imaging of Cosmic Extragalactic Polarization) which was part of a series of instruments used to measure the polarization of the cosmic microwave background (CMB). On 17 March 2014, it was announced, to much fanfare, that BICEP2 had detected B-modes from gravitational waves in the early universe (called primordial gravitational waves). A few years later, this announcement had to be backtracked as it was found that most, if not all, of the reported signal was actually due to interstellar dust within the Milky Way.{{Citation needed}}<br />
<br />
The title text notes that if there had been a physics mafia, then those results would have ended in bloodshed due to the controversy they caused.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[White Hat, with his hands balled into fist and held up above him, is talking with Megan.]<br />
:White Hat: You physicists are suppressing my theory because it's inconvenient for your models!<br />
:Megan: Wait, we have a mafia that can suppress annoying results?<br />
:Megan: ''Why didn't they do something about the dark energy people?!''<br />
:Megan: We gave them a Nobel prize but I'm still mad at them!<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Physics]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Megan]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2109:_Invisible_Formatting&diff=169408Talk:2109: Invisible Formatting2019-02-09T10:37:17Z<p>162.158.89.61: First sentence of explanation is wrong.</p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
This reminds me of the person who used l (lower-case "L") instead of 1 for data entry at some business. Amazingly, the computer accepted it (BAD programming!) and it wasn't found out until the end of the tax year, when all heck broke loose! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.136|162.158.75.136]] 14:50, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Some programming puzzles are often solved with stuff like this: AΑ [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 15:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:"l" (lower-case "L") is a valid suffix to integer literals in C and derived languages. It indicates the number is of the "long int" type as opposed to a plain "int". Because C automatically upconverts the "int" type into "long int" when needed, the "l" suffix is rarely used. The result: "long int a = 1;" and "long int a = 1l;" mean exactly the same thing, and both statements are perfectly standard and won't raise any warning from compilers. "ll" (double el) is also a valid suffix, this time for the "long long int" type. [[User:GuB|GuB]] ([[User talk:GuB|talk]]) 15:39, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Typing lowercase ''L'' instead of ''1'' is a common thing for people of a certain age. Old manual typewriters usually don't have a "1" key, so people learned to use lowercase ''L'' instead -- and sometimes slip back into that habit on newer technology. --[[User:Aaron of Mpls|Aaron of Mpls]] ([[User talk:Aaron of Mpls|talk]]) 02:03, 9 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I went to this page, expecting it to be self-referential. Was not disappointed. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 15:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Some markup conversion tools don't handle hidden bold spaces correctly. This HTML to Markdown converter is an example: https://anthonychu.github.io/to-markdown/ It converts <code><nowiki><b>a </b></nowiki></code> to <code>**a **</code> instead of <code>**a** </code>. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 15:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Hah, this comment is not mine! Somehow I have your IP now. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 17:47, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Were the periods in the beginning there for a specific reason? [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 17:42, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:The user 108.162.245.16 thought it was a good idea for some reason. Glad you fixed it. I finished the job [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 17:46, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've had this happen when writing papers. Bold. Unbold. Later backspace into the hidden bold space and everything typed after gets put in bold. If a professor gives you a page count instead of a word count, you can make the punctuation in your paper bold (or increase the font) to add some extra padding that might go unnoticed. Don't actually do this if you can't convey your thesis in fewer words. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.210.52|172.69.210.52]] 18:11, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I hated when Microsoft Word took over and lacked a real "Reveal Codes" like WordPerfect used to have. I'm kind of like Randall, I think about those behind-the-scenes things that lots of companies like to try to hide from the user, and I like the power to do something about them. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 18:58, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:When I saw the strip, I immediately thought of Word Perfect because its brain dead way of inserting formatting as special codes inline with the text. Hit "reveal codes" and it would reveal a string of bold on / bold off codes because it wasn't clever enough to optimise them away. I assume Word does it differently, perhaps with attributed strings and so doesn't need the reveal codes function so you can manually fix the mess the program has a made.<br />
<br />
In Microsoft Word, where the majority of people would have experience with selecting and bolding text, the cursor appears as an "I-beam" when positioned over text and not as the "mouse pointer arrow" shown by Randall. Also, in Word double-clicking a word does select the following space(s), but when bold is applied it is applied only to the selected word, NOT to the trailing space (even though the space was selected when the bold was applied). So selecting just the word and un-bolding would not leave a bolded space behind, since the space was never bolded.<br />
Clearly Randall's example is in some editor other than Word. Since Word is where most people have familiarity with selecting and bolding text, something should be added to the explanation noting this and speculating on which text editor Randall is actually showing. - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.215|108.162.246.215]] 20:35, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
: Agreed. '''Most''' text editors do not select the trailing space when double-clicking. Microsoft Word is one of the few that does it. But in that case, the space is not formatted as bold. But in most word processors including Word, if you do select the word with the trailing space and apply the bold formatting, the space retains the formatting even if the word is un-bolded. So the first sentence of the explanation is incorrect.<br />
<br />
Hidden formatting annoys translators greatly. Sometimes, the formatting of the word processor used and the formatting recognized by the CAT program (such as SDL Trados Studio or MemoQ) do not line up very well, which causes the formatting to appear as tags within the text (purple colored in the most widely used CAT software, Trados). If there is sloppy or hidden formatting all through the document, this turns into what most people call a "wall of purple", with tags everywhere within the document. Since tags need to be accounted for (otherwise the document does not save properly), and the formatting capability of most CAT tools is a lot more limited compared to any word processors, this is a colossal waste of time for any translator to wade through. Thus, if you leave any hidden formatting in a document and you know it will be translated somewhere down the line, you know there is a translator out there that curses the day you were born. (A note though - PDF conversion is responsible for a lot more wall of purple incidents than sloppy formatting. Seriously - if you expect a document to be translated at some point, never bring it anywhere close to the PDF format. That format is evil, I tell you. Pure evil.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 05:47, 9 February 2019 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2109:_Invisible_Formatting&diff=169406Talk:2109: Invisible Formatting2019-02-09T05:47:55Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
This reminds me of the person who used l (lower-case "L") instead of 1 for data entry at some business. Amazingly, the computer accepted it (BAD programming!) and it wasn't found out until the end of the tax year, when all heck broke loose! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.136|162.158.75.136]] 14:50, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Some programming puzzles are often solved with stuff like this: AΑ [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 15:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:"l" (lower-case "L") is a valid suffix to integer literals in C and derived languages. It indicates the number is of the "long int" type as opposed to a plain "int". Because C automatically upconverts the "int" type into "long int" when needed, the "l" suffix is rarely used. The result: "long int a = 1;" and "long int a = 1l;" mean exactly the same thing, and both statements are perfectly standard and won't raise any warning from compilers. "ll" (double el) is also a valid suffix, this time for the "long long int" type. [[User:GuB|GuB]] ([[User talk:GuB|talk]]) 15:39, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Typing lowercase ''L'' instead of ''1'' is a common thing for people of a certain age. Old manual typewriters usually don't have a "1" key, so people learned to use lowercase ''L'' instead -- and sometimes slip back into that habit on newer technology. --[[User:Aaron of Mpls|Aaron of Mpls]] ([[User talk:Aaron of Mpls|talk]]) 02:03, 9 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I went to this page, expecting it to be self-referential. Was not disappointed. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 15:19, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Some markup conversion tools don't handle hidden bold spaces correctly. This HTML to Markdown converter is an example: https://anthonychu.github.io/to-markdown/ It converts <code><nowiki><b>a </b></nowiki></code> to <code>**a **</code> instead of <code>**a** </code>. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 15:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Hah, this comment is not mine! Somehow I have your IP now. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 17:47, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Were the periods in the beginning there for a specific reason? [[User:Netherin5|Netherin5]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 17:42, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:The user 108.162.245.16 thought it was a good idea for some reason. Glad you fixed it. I finished the job [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.10|172.69.62.10]] 17:46, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I've had this happen when writing papers. Bold. Unbold. Later backspace into the hidden bold space and everything typed after gets put in bold. If a professor gives you a page count instead of a word count, you can make the punctuation in your paper bold (or increase the font) to add some extra padding that might go unnoticed. Don't actually do this if you can't convey your thesis in fewer words. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.210.52|172.69.210.52]] 18:11, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I hated when Microsoft Word took over and lacked a real "Reveal Codes" like WordPerfect used to have. I'm kind of like Randall, I think about those behind-the-scenes things that lots of companies like to try to hide from the user, and I like the power to do something about them. [[User:N0lqu|-boB]] ([[User talk:N0lqu|talk]]) 18:58, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
:When I saw the strip, I immediately thought of Word Perfect because its brain dead way of inserting formatting as special codes inline with the text. Hit "reveal codes" and it would reveal a string of bold on / bold off codes because it wasn't clever enough to optimise them away. I assume Word does it differently, perhaps with attributed strings and so doesn't need the reveal codes function so you can manually fix the mess the program has a made.<br />
<br />
In Microsoft Word, where the majority of people would have experience with selecting and bolding text, the cursor appears as an "I-beam" when positioned over text and not as the "mouse pointer arrow" shown by Randall. Also, in Word double-clicking a word does select the following space(s), but when bold is applied it is applied only to the selected word, NOT to the trailing space (even though the space was selected when the bold was applied). So selecting just the word and un-bolding would not leave a bolded space behind, since the space was never bolded.<br />
Clearly Randall's example is in some editor other than Word. Since Word is where most people have familiarity with selecting and bolding text, something should be added to the explanation noting this and speculating on which text editor Randall is actually showing. - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.215|108.162.246.215]] 20:35, 8 February 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Hidden formatting annoys translators greatly. Sometimes, the formatting of the word processor used and the formatting recognized by the CAT program (such as SDL Trados Studio or MemoQ) do not line up very well, which causes the formatting to appear as tags within the text (purple colored in the most widely used CAT software, Trados). If there is sloppy or hidden formatting all through the document, this turns into what most people call a "wall of purple", with tags everywhere within the document. Since tags need to be accounted for (otherwise the document does not save properly), and the formatting capability of most CAT tools is a lot more limited compared to any word processors, this is a colossal waste of time for any translator to wade through. Thus, if you leave any hidden formatting in a document and you know it will be translated somewhere down the line, you know there is a translator out there that curses the day you were born. (A note though - PDF conversion is responsible for a lot more wall of purple incidents than sloppy formatting. Seriously - if you expect a document to be translated at some point, never bring it anywhere close to the PDF format. That format is evil, I tell you. Pure evil.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 05:47, 9 February 2019 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2101:_Technical_Analysis&diff=168552Talk:2101: Technical Analysis2019-01-24T19:30:03Z<p>162.158.89.61: Commenting on the applicability of analysis (more POVs on this welcome)</p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
The Tobin citation comes from James Tobin's Fred Hirsch Memorial Lecture "On the Efficiency of the Financial System" in 1984 [https://economicsociologydotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tobin-on-the-efficiency-of-the-financial-system.pdf].<br />
<br />
The explanation says “allego” and “prologue“ are “musical terms such as may be used in the introduction of a performed piece”. That may be true of “prologue” but “allegro”, according to Wikipedia, is “a tempo marking indicate to play fast, quickly and bright”. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.58|108.162.219.58]] 11:40, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:And, derived from this, a movement of a piece that is performed quickly may be referred to as an allegro. It can also be used to refer to an entire piece, such as this piece by Mozart: [https://www.pianostreet.com/mozart-sheet-music/allegro-k-1-f-major.htm] [[User:Kazzie|Kazzie]] ([[User talk:Kazzie|talk]]) 12:00, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
::But based on the placement of the allego and the way it is written it is most likely a tempo. Tempo goes just above the music and in this case it is the only word on the page that is italicized. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.108|162.158.186.108]] 14:09, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
How would this compare with “candlestick patterns” - the bathtub one looks like a funny name for a pattern *meant* to signal that prices could rise https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/06/advcandlesticks.asp. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.144.145|172.68.144.145]] 13:55, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Random Walk might refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk [[User:Curtobi4|Curtobi4]] ([[User talk:Curtobi4|talk]]) 14:00, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_walk_hypothesis [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.202|108.162.241.202]] 16:33, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
:This is correct, also called Brownian Motion. The shape of these graphs is incredibly similar to that of the motion of a speck of dust floating in coffee. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.65.228|172.68.65.228]] 03:26, 22 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Should we make a table for each term like there is for other comics? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.232|162.158.63.232]] 18:01, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Yes please. Also, the individual jokes could be explained better. For instance, I'm pretty sure "lumbar support" is there as a joke on the word "spline" looking & sounding a lot like "spine". I'm 90% certain it's a pun, but that's not mentioned yet.<br />
:[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 19:30, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
XKCD lessons with Randall: Today I learned that the word "Allegro" actually has a meaning, and isn't just a random website name. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.160|162.158.92.160]] 19:27, 21 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The fundamental problem is that price movements are NOT a random walk. It is safe to assume that people who know a market well will study it, and make purchases/sells based on the underlying market drivers. And in doing so, they will leave "tells" in the pricing data. It becomes possible to look at markets, and see what the people in-the-know are doing, and follow along after them. That is the fundamental basis of technical analysis, and it works -- it works unbelievably well.<br />
<br />
If there is a problem, it is that computers can do this pattern recognition so fast that there is longer any room for people to do this.<br />
<br />
In other words, computerized arbitrage has gotten so good that people need not apply, and a few high-end groups with high speed electronic trading can get in before any person can.<br />
<br />
[[User:Keybounce|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce|talk]]) 00:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Keybounce, do you have any thoughts on how to share some of that with the layperson? The cryptocurrency markets are highly volatile and worth many billions of dollars. People with little resources are getting involved and either going bust or becoming millionaires. The trading history makes it clear there is a lot of automated trading for a long time, but I'm not sure many people really know what they are doing, and the publically available code appears pretty weak. There is a lot of opportunity here to make huge impacts on major economic and social groups in ways that could really help problems in the world. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.65.228|172.68.65.228]] 03:32, 22 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
True that computerized arbitrage/high frequency trading occurs at speeds which leave zero room for human reaction times (see the $$$ made by shaving only 3 milliseconds’ [!!] from the transmission delay, when Jim Barksdale built a new straight-path fiber optic line from Chicago Mercantile to NASDAQ in NJ in 2010, and by McKay and Tradeworx using microwave tower relays since then), but computerized arbitrage is, broadly, not the same as technical analysis of markets. Arbitrage takes immediate advantage of brief pricing trends and inefficiencies, while analysis seeks to predict pricing. Of course, technical analysis is also computerized at inhuman speeds, and its algorithms are used in arbitrage, but seems to me the comic isn’t about arbitrage, as such.[[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 20:03, 22 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm disappointed that there wasn't a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wow!_signal "WOW!"] entry [[User:John.Adriaan|John.Adriaan]] ([[User talk:John.Adriaan|talk]]) 01:38, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
:I fixed your link, hope that's okay. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.51.178|172.68.51.178]] 13:29, 24 January 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I always cringe when I see some trader (who probably don't have an economy degree) try to show with technical analysis that he could predict X happening over a year in advance. Just this day I saw it in my daily economy news. No, sorry to tell you this... if you couldn't predict X happening the day before you sure as hell couldn't predict it a year in advance. Conversely it doesn't make sense to apply fundamental analysis to stocks that you don't plan to keep for more than a year. That's not to say these methods are useless, they are useful for making educated guesses but all should be aware of their limitations. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 19:30, 24 January 2019 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2100:_Models_of_the_Atom&diff=1683162100: Models of the Atom2019-01-18T09:50:19Z<p>162.158.89.61: /* Transcript */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 2100<br />
| date = January 18, 2019<br />
| title = Models of the Atom<br />
| image = models_of_the_atom.png<br />
| titletext = J.J. Thompson won a Nobel Prize for his work in electricity in gases, but was unfairly passed over for his "An atom is plum pudding, and plum pudding is MADE of atoms! Duuuuude." theory.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by a CONFUSED ATOM. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
This comic humorously describes the changing view of how {{w|atom}}s work.<br />
<br />
The first model shown, in 1810, is said to be a "small hard ball model." Around this time, {{w|John Dalton}} came up with the most famous maxim of chemistry: "All stuff is made of atoms." Dalton used the idea to explain what is today known as {{w|stoichiometry}}. Thus humans thought up the idea of atoms – but in lieu of any ideas of how they work, the scientific community likely thought of them as "hard round balls"; thus the name described here.<br />
<br />
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the study of these "atom" things faced a crisis: where would the newly discovered "{{w|electron}}s" go? In 1904, physicist {{w|J. J. Thomson}}, who discovered electrons, had an idea: maybe the electrons were small point charges moving around in a big mass of positive charge. This was the "{{w|plum pudding model}}", the second model on the comic, called this because people imagined the positively charged mass as a "{{w|Christmas pudding|plum pudding}}". (The title text references Thomson as well, along with the humorous observation that plum puddings themselves are made of atoms.)<br />
<br />
This was one of many competing ideas in the formative years of what-are-atoms-made-of-ology, where [[Randall]] claims a 1907 "tiny bird model" (the third model shown) would fit in well. But ultimately, the tentative winner in the battle was the model of Thomson's student {{w|Ernest Rutherford}}, who discovered that the positive charge seemed to be in the center of the atom, and put down his {{w|Rutherford model}}, or "planetary model", in 1911, where electrons orbit a positive charge. This is the fourth model put down.<br />
<br />
But there were a few problems; {{w|Maxwell's equations}} complained, for instance, saying that the electrons would quickly orbit into the nucleus, emitting light in the process. {{w|Niels Bohr}} patched the model up with the newfangled idea of quantum mechanics, creating his "{{w|Bohr model}}", the fifth model shown here, in 1913.<br />
<br />
If this sounds like today's model, you didn't pay enough attention; note that at this time, nobody thought of splitting up the nucleus into {{w|proton}}s and {{w|neutron}}s. But pretty soon people noticed that protons and neutrons existed; Randall facetiously suggests a "{{w|Nunchaku|nunchuck}} model", the sixth model shown, of a packet of protons swinging a packet of electrons around. But more seriously, {{w|James Chadwick}}, who discovered the neutron, figured that the atom had a nucleus of neutrons and protons, along with a bunch of electrons orbiting around it in a Bohrish manner. This is what the layman today often thinks of as an atom, and is the the seventh model shown here.<br />
<br />
The eighth model shown is a "538 model" in 2008. {{w|FiveThirtyEight|538}} is a statistical analysis website that gained fame in 2008 for predicting every race but 2 correctly in the {{w|2008 United States presidential election|US presidential election}}. It has since been known for making mathematical models for everything; the model jokingly suggests that 538 has modeled and presumably made predictions about the atom. The {{w|pie chart}} shows the composition of neutrons, protons and electrons, 38%, 31%, and 31% respectively. This could represent gallium-69, the most abundant {{w|Isotopes of gallium|isotope of gallium}}, with 31 protons, 31 electrons and 38 neutrons.<br />
<br />
But is the Chadwick model what scientists endorse today? No! Today physicists subscribe to a quantum model, which is the ninth model shown here. Instead of electrons, there are quantum clouds, or more simply, the parts of the atom aren't in any particular point, but rather a probability field of possible locations. This is very abstract, and in the last model, the model is postulated to get so abstract that it is just a "small hard ball surrounded by math" model, the last model shown. This then is remarkably similar to the model we started out from, the "small hard ball model" (without the math).<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
{{incomplete transcript|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
[One large panel with a caption centered on top and ten small drawings in two rows. Each drawing has a description below it.]<br />
<br />
Models of the atom over time<br />
<br />
[Drawing 1: A somewhat imperfectly drawn circle]<br />
<br />
1810<br>Small hard ball model<br />
<br />
[Drawing 2: A rounded-corners trapezoid inside which there are four small plus signs and four small circles with minus signs inside them]<br />
<br />
1904<br>Plum pudding model<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2098:_Magnetic_Pole&diff=1681872098: Magnetic Pole2019-01-16T15:24:45Z<p>162.158.89.61: /* Explanation */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 2098<br />
| date = January 14, 2019<br />
| title = Magnetic Pole<br />
| image = magnetic_pole.png<br />
| titletext = People keep trying to come up with reasons that we should worry about the magnetic field collapsing or reversing, but honestly I think it's fine. Whatever minor problems it causes will be made up for by the mid-latitude auroras.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
{{incomplete|Created by a CONVECTION CURRENT IN THE OUTER CORE and a thing happening. Well, four things. Well, four things and a lizard. Include relevant wikipedia and news article links. Please mention here why this explanation isn't complete. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}<br />
<br />
Over the last couple of months, {{w|Earth's magnetic field|Earth's magnetic fields}} have been [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00007-1 shifting rapidly]. Although the magnetic fields do move regularly, the current shift has been unexpected and unprecedented. As many location systems are reliant on the magnetic fields to function, the accuracy of such tools is being shifted beyond the maximum acceptable error.<br />
<br />
Locational and navigational systems use the magnetic field, in addition to a model, to do fancy math and pop out data. Due to the rapid shifts, a new model was scheduled to be out; however, because of the {{w|United States federal government shutdown of 2018–2019|US government shutdown}}, the model has been considerably delayed.<br />
<br />
As shifts occur, the error of geopositional data will increase until a new {{w|World Magnetic Model|model}} is released. The effect is especially pronounced as you move toward the poles. <br />
<br />
Cueball is saying that because of the currently published {{w|magnetic declination}} data being slightly incorrect, his {{w|Schooner|schooners}} (old merchant sailing ships) may go off-course and crash on {{w|Shoal|shoals}}. This is to illustrate how magnetic pole shift doesn't actually have much of an effect on too many people's daily lives, since most people don't need to worry about things like ship navigation and modern ships use navigation aids that do not rely on magnetic poles location &ndash; in contrast to old vessels which used a {{w|compass}} mostly.<br />
<br />
Since the movement is only equal to about two-fifths of a degree, it wouldn't cause very much disruption for [[Cueball]] or require him to adjust anything about his lifestyle or habits, but since the speed of the change has been steadily increasing over the past few years, it may mean we are heading for a geomagnetic reversal in the next few decades; something very exciting indeed. During a magnetic reversal, the poles wouldn't just switch places, but several different poles would form and interact very chaotically, and, statistically speaking, it's likely that one of them would end up close enough to where [[Randall]] lives to cause auroras to become more common at some point during the transition <br />
<br />
In the title text, Randall mentions that there are reasons people could be concerned, but says that they would be more than made up for by newly being able to experience mid latitude auroras.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[White Hat and Cueball are talking to each other. White Hat has a cellphone in his hand, while Cueball is raising his hands in the air in mock exasperation.]<br />
:White Hat: I just read that the Earth's North magnetic pole is drifting rapidly.<br />
:Cueball: Oh no! I must update our declination tables post haste, lest our merchant schooners run aground on the shoals!<br />
<br />
:[Caption below the panel:]<br />
:I like when the Earth's magnetic field does weird stuff, because it's a huge, cool, urgent-seeming science thing, but there's nothing I personally need to do about it.<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring Cueball]]<br />
[[Category:Comics featuring White Hat]]</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:563:_Fermirotica&diff=166220Talk:563: Fermirotica2018-11-21T00:01:43Z<p>162.158.89.61: Commented own comment</p>
<hr />
<div>Explanation marked as incorrect. I would do some editing, but I do not have the time or explanation-writing skill to do so effectively.<br />
<br />
Issues:<br />
<br />
1. The explanation's listed April Fools' joke seems to have no proof; it has no mention in the comic.<br />
<br />
2. The title text seems to just be a complaint against Google's methods for statistics (i.e. "I love" is sarcasm). All it says is that Google just wildly guesses, based on unrelated, random events, and calls it statistics.<br />
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 04:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I doubt that the title text was complaining or sarcastic at all. If I recall correctly, the ability to plug calculations with units into Google was pretty new in 2009, and especially useful, given as he switched his time units from minutes to years. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.234|108.162.231.234]] 17:04, 12 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Except that it specifically states that Google guesses (stats are ballpark) and change based un unrelated occurrences (time of day and your mother's presence). That sounds like either sarcasm, or him actually loving how google doesn't (or didn't at the time) do a very good job with stats. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree with Zweisteine - it is obvious a sarcastic comment, because the results from Google is so random that it will change during the day - and of course there is the your mom joke. Is there a category for these comics? (Like with the velociraptor comics etc.) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The two sentences of the title text are unrelated. The first is not sarcasm, but is straightforward praise of Google's "dimensional analysis". Searching on "sqrt( 2 / (pi * (18600 / mile^2) * (80 / year) * 30 minutes) )" yields an answer of "139.379395 meters" with Google correctly doing all of the unit conversion for you. Wow, that really is cool! It should be noted when Google gained this capability, if we can find a source for that. The second sentence is a straightforward discussion of the limitations of the model, as the probability of having sex is not uniformly distributed throughout the day. The mom part is a joke because it applies to a specific individual, not simultaneously to the general population around you (unless it is "Moms Visit Campus Day"). There is no April Fool's joke here. Where does the 18,600 persons / square mile population density come from? Is it for a specific metropolitan area? Finally, what Randall is calling "dimensional analysis" is more commonly referred to as unit conversion. For physicists, at least, dimensional analysis refers to a more subtle and powerful tool where equations for phenomena can often be deduced (to within a scaling factor) purely by analyzing the units involved. Wikipedia's articles on "Dimensional analysis", "Units conversion by factor-label", "Drake equation", and "Fermi paradox" should all be linked. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 12:26, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah! I agree that the ''... and (b) whether "your mom" was in town (she is exceptionally slutty)'' "your mom" joke is a better interpretation than my earlier thought that people have sex less often when their out-of-town mom is visiting them. Good job! - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 02:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
April's fool seems to refer to the date of the comic being April 1st 2009. {{unsigned|Eric957}}<br />
<br />
:Understood, but there is no meta-"joke within a joke" or joke on the reader which would serve as a kind of April Fool's joke. This is just a regular comic which happened to be published on 1 April. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 18:38, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think this represents a "Fermi Estimation" - it may give a number to a problem by taking "best guesses" for something that is not easily calculated exactly. See also http://whatif.xkcd.com/84/ [[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 17:58, 14 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree; I think it has little if anything to do with the Fermi Paradox. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.123|173.245.52.123]] 03:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Uh, I got 10cm. Interpret that however you'd like. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.49.66|162.158.49.66]] 05:52, 31 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I take it as you were off by an order of magnitude at least in one of your parameters or you made a mistake in the calculation. The only way you can get that without X_f and X_d being inconsistent is if you put the population density high enough that people are literally overlapping. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.123|173.245.52.123]] 03:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yeah, make sure to convert your years or minutes so they are both in the same units of time. I came up with 4 meters on my first calculation, realized there was a mistake, corrected the units and got 7.1 kilometers. Now, if your units are correct and you got 10cm, then you might want to move to a quieter neighborhood. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.154|108.162.237.154]] 01:24, 29 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This equation is not perfect (besides several environment factors, thus "on average"), because the times when people have sex are not independent: Usually two people have sex at the same time. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 23:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Wait, that's what the 2 is for. I should learn the circle equations... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 00:01, 21 November 2018 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:563:_Fermirotica&diff=166219Talk:563: Fermirotica2018-11-20T23:56:56Z<p>162.158.89.61: Commented on the equation</p>
<hr />
<div>Explanation marked as incorrect. I would do some editing, but I do not have the time or explanation-writing skill to do so effectively.<br />
<br />
Issues:<br />
<br />
1. The explanation's listed April Fools' joke seems to have no proof; it has no mention in the comic.<br />
<br />
2. The title text seems to just be a complaint against Google's methods for statistics (i.e. "I love" is sarcasm). All it says is that Google just wildly guesses, based on unrelated, random events, and calls it statistics.<br />
[[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 04:26, 12 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
I doubt that the title text was complaining or sarcastic at all. If I recall correctly, the ability to plug calculations with units into Google was pretty new in 2009, and especially useful, given as he switched his time units from minutes to years. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.231.234|108.162.231.234]] 17:04, 12 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Except that it specifically states that Google guesses (stats are ballpark) and change based un unrelated occurrences (time of day and your mother's presence). That sounds like either sarcasm, or him actually loving how google doesn't (or didn't at the time) do a very good job with stats. [[User:Zweisteine|Zweisteine]] ([[User talk:Zweisteine|talk]]) 23:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I agree with Zweisteine - it is obvious a sarcastic comment, because the results from Google is so random that it will change during the day - and of course there is the your mom joke. Is there a category for these comics? (Like with the velociraptor comics etc.) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The two sentences of the title text are unrelated. The first is not sarcasm, but is straightforward praise of Google's "dimensional analysis". Searching on "sqrt( 2 / (pi * (18600 / mile^2) * (80 / year) * 30 minutes) )" yields an answer of "139.379395 meters" with Google correctly doing all of the unit conversion for you. Wow, that really is cool! It should be noted when Google gained this capability, if we can find a source for that. The second sentence is a straightforward discussion of the limitations of the model, as the probability of having sex is not uniformly distributed throughout the day. The mom part is a joke because it applies to a specific individual, not simultaneously to the general population around you (unless it is "Moms Visit Campus Day"). There is no April Fool's joke here. Where does the 18,600 persons / square mile population density come from? Is it for a specific metropolitan area? Finally, what Randall is calling "dimensional analysis" is more commonly referred to as unit conversion. For physicists, at least, dimensional analysis refers to a more subtle and powerful tool where equations for phenomena can often be deduced (to within a scaling factor) purely by analyzing the units involved. Wikipedia's articles on "Dimensional analysis", "Units conversion by factor-label", "Drake equation", and "Fermi paradox" should all be linked. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 12:26, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ah! I agree that the ''... and (b) whether "your mom" was in town (she is exceptionally slutty)'' "your mom" joke is a better interpretation than my earlier thought that people have sex less often when their out-of-town mom is visiting them. Good job! - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 02:28, 22 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
April's fool seems to refer to the date of the comic being April 1st 2009. {{unsigned|Eric957}}<br />
<br />
:Understood, but there is no meta-"joke within a joke" or joke on the reader which would serve as a kind of April Fool's joke. This is just a regular comic which happened to be published on 1 April. -- [[Special:Contributions/108.162.212.217|108.162.212.217]] 18:38, 21 January 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think this represents a "Fermi Estimation" - it may give a number to a problem by taking "best guesses" for something that is not easily calculated exactly. See also http://whatif.xkcd.com/84/ [[User:Tier666|Tier666]] ([[User talk:Tier666|talk]]) 17:58, 14 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I agree; I think it has little if anything to do with the Fermi Paradox. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.123|173.245.52.123]] 03:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Uh, I got 10cm. Interpret that however you'd like. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.49.66|162.158.49.66]] 05:52, 31 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I take it as you were off by an order of magnitude at least in one of your parameters or you made a mistake in the calculation. The only way you can get that without X_f and X_d being inconsistent is if you put the population density high enough that people are literally overlapping. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.123|173.245.52.123]] 03:21, 26 November 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Yeah, make sure to convert your years or minutes so they are both in the same units of time. I came up with 4 meters on my first calculation, realized there was a mistake, corrected the units and got 7.1 kilometers. Now, if your units are correct and you got 10cm, then you might want to move to a quieter neighborhood. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.154|108.162.237.154]] 01:24, 29 December 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This equation is not perfect (besides several environment factors, thus "on average"), because the times when people have sex are not independent: Usually two people have sex at the same time. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 23:56, 20 November 2018 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2073:_Kilogram&diff=166083Talk:2073: Kilogram2018-11-17T11:11:00Z<p>162.158.89.61: Adding something about "metric pounds"</p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
I didn't know that weights and currencies could be converted 1:1, that's cool! [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 16:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wish they ''had'' redefined the kilogram a little bit. It would have been neat if 1 kg was exactly the weight of 1 dm^3 (1 litre) of water under one atmosphere of pressure. Right now it's soooo close. It's a good enough estimate for simple maths, but whenever you tell people that a litre of water weighs one kilogram the pedants comes out of the woodworks... [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 16:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:You'll get pedants whenever you refer to a kilogram as weight; it's a mass. The difference is that stuff weighs less on the Moon - or on tall mountains - although the mass is the same. I think the article as I just read it gets away with this. And, sure, what is the standard kilogram but a weight, that you take and weigh... rja.carnegie@excite.com [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.59|162.158.91.59]] 23:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It ''used'' to be a mass. Now it's a ratio of the local gravitational strength versus the efficiency of an EM field. Kibble scales require EM shielding & an environment of ''precisely'' 1g, in order to be accurate. Since gravity isn't equal everywhere, our measurements of kilograms will now vary accordingly. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Up until 1964 a litre (and therefore actually the metre too) used to be defined as the volume that water with mass 1kg takes. But this is not good for exact measurements not only because you need exactly reproducable temperature, pressure (not so problematic, because you can measure them and then calculate the divergence) and gravity (not so easy to measure, because you need an exact mass and exact masses are impossible to keep the same), but also because you need pure water free of any polutions of other stuff (hard and expensive) and even free of tiny amounts of isotopes which are deuterium and tritium (even way more expensive).<br />
Because the water that was used then was never close to pure the actual weight of water nowadays is 0.99997kg at 4°C and 1.013bar and I don't know which value for g. There is also another definition which I like, but is hard to measure in real life scenarios: E=mc². A kilogramm should be 1/c² of the mass which anything becomes heavier that you accelerate by the energy of one Joule. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.150|162.158.90.150]] 17:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:But how do you define/measure a Joule then? [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 18:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:No, until 1964, meter and litre were totally independent, a meter has never been defined directly or indirectly in relation to a mass of water. It is only since 1964 that the liter is defined as a cubic decimeter.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.36|162.158.90.36]] 18:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Also, in E=mc², E is the energy '''at rest''' (for a stationary object of mass m), so your definition using the acceleration makes no sense.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.254|162.158.88.254]] 18:47, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
Actually, for the new definition of the kilo using the Kibble balance you need to measure the gravity... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.16|162.158.134.16]] 17:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Welp, looks like 1 kg, a.k.a. 1 lb, a.k.a 2.2 lb, is now officially defined to have zero mass.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.50.28|172.69.50.28]] 16:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:…or infinite. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 16:59, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
::What I understand: the joke is not (only) about 1 (old) kg = 1 (old) lb, but (also) about 1 new kg = 1 old lb... or 1 new lb = 1 old kg :^) Or about a ring of positive characteristic --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.94|188.114.102.94]] 17:08, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:I'm so glad other people see the problem with this supposed "official" definition. We've gone from a unit of measure problematically prone to contamination error, to a unit of measure that changes depending on where you measure it! [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
what about the ambiguity of the pound? would they reference an Avoirdupois bound or a Troy lb? --wonderkatn {{unsigned ip|172.69.50.16}}<br />
<br />
I don't believe the Imperial system is "no longer used". Gills have been retired, but yards and even chains are still in use, not to mention the Imperial <s>lb</s> pint. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The imperial system has some good things about it. Feet are divisible by 12, and Fahrenheit is much nicer for human temperatures. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 18:55, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, coz it's so easier to divide by 12 than to divide by 10! {{unsigned ip|162.158.89.61}}<br />
:::No it is easier to divide by 2, 3, 4, and 6, and yes, I can divide the number of feet by 10 easily in my head. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 19:15, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::The idea is that with twelve parts, you can have 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, and 1/12 all be integer number of parts. This is why these types of systems developed in the past, and why so many systems also had multiples of 60 (you can do the math here.). They were easy to divide by merchants without access to any sort of calculation method. The base-10 system is great if you're only ever dealing with halves or tenths. But if you want a quarter or a third of something, you have to split the base units. It's no longer necessary in modern life, but it had a real advantage in ancient times. [[User:Cgrimes85|Cgrimes85]] ([[User talk:Cgrimes85|talk]]) 19:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::: No longer necessary in modern life... Which is why we should all switch to base-10 units of time! [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Ok, I'm going to point out something. What's a meter? 1000 milimeters. What's a milimeter? .....skipping the questions all the way to the end, the answer is "the wavelength of the color orange". Or at least that's what I read. So my question is: why orange? What's so special about orange? What as a species or as a solar system or as universe does the color orange have to do with anything? [[Special:Contributions/172.68.90.10|172.68.90.10]] 21:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC) SiliconWolf<br />
<br />
: "The metre was originally defined in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole." That's why orange. Think of those lines from equator to pole... and how an orange is divided in segments beneath the peel. This is why the "Terry's Chocolate Orange" is so called, because it resembles the fruit orange. rja.carnegie@excite.com [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.59|162.158.91.59]] 23:51, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: The wavelength definition of the meter is not in use anymore either. Since 1983, the meter is defined as the distance the light (any light) travel in the vacuum in 1/299792458 seconds. Of course, all units have a part of arbitrary, and the value it is used to calculate the meter (the orange color, the 1/299792458 seconds...) are basically chosen because they are close to and more precise than the previous definition that existed, in order to not have to recalibrate things that don't need high precision. [[Special:Contributions/103.22.200.210|103.22.200.210]] 08:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I feel like we're starting to compare angstroms & millitrumps, here. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''Be very careful'''<br />
<br />
An announcement to a new definition of the kilogram is published wildly (I mean what I'm saying) today. Please do not present this issue as a final fact, I'm still missing an official statement -- it's just press hype. And there are two possible definitions taken account, not only the one from the US. The final decision right now looks like some of Randall's compromises. Just sayin... --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:01, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:OK then, here's an after-the-vote November 16 web page from NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, within the US Department of Commerce. It says it's a done deal. [https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2018/11/historic-vote-ties-kilogram-and-other-units-natural-constants historic-vote-ties-kilogram-and-other-units-natural-constants]. --JohnB [[Special:Contributions/162.158.79.89|162.158.79.89]] 21:58, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Thanks, but my German sources still preset something like counting atoms [https://www.ptb.de/cms/forschung-entwicklung/forschung-zum-neuen-si/ptb-experimente/kilogramm-und-mol-atome-zaehlen.html Kilogram and MOL, counting atoms], just meaning I'm not sure what will be true in May 2019, do we know the truth??? And in fact it looks like Europeans are fighting against US scientists, or vice versa. This is far of a standard I would prefer. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:29, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:::I'm ''extremely'' skeptical of the Kibble scale definition. It won't maintain constant mass at different locations. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
It will be very funny when we find out one of those constants is not really constant ... sure, planck length is less likely to change than physical object, but it MIGHT. Like, maybe it gets longer the older the universe is ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 23:17, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Since they're proposing to measure the gravitational force exerted on a unit of mass against the force exerted by an electromagnetic field (instead of comparing the downward force exerted on two masses), the new definition ''isn't'' a constant. For instance, on the moon such a scale would define 1kg as about 13.3lbs! The "new official definition" is a bad one. [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 08:36, 17 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
You could not define the kilogram in terms of electric force when you defined the Amp in terms of the current that creates a given force. But by defining the amp in terms of numbers of elementary charges per second and setting Avogadro and other constants by fiat, you break the circle. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.38.190|162.158.38.190]] 23:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
In the Netherlands, we use the metric system. We also use the term "pond" to mean pound. However, we use metric pounds. Those are 0.500 kilogram, so it is actually easy to use.</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2073:_Kilogram&diff=166035Talk:2073: Kilogram2018-11-16T18:59:31Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
I didn't know that weights and currencies could be converted 1:1, that's cool! [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 16:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wish they ''had'' redefined the kilogram a little bit. It would have been neat if 1 kg was exactly the weight of 1 dm^3 (1 litre) of water under one atmosphere of pressure. Right now it's soooo close. It's a good enough estimate for simple maths, but whenever you tell people that a litre of water weighs one kilogram the pedants comes out of the woodworks... [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 16:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Up until 1964 a litre (and therefore actually the metre too) used to be defined as the volume that water with mass 1kg takes. But this is not good for exact measurements not only because you need exactly reproducable temperature, pressure (not so problematic, because you can measure them and then calculate the divergence) and gravity (not so easy to measure, because you need an exact mass and exact masses are impossible to keep the same), but also because you need pure water free of any polutions of other stuff (hard and expensive) and even free of tiny amounts of isotopes which are deuterium and tritium (even way more expensive).<br />
Because the water that was used then was never close to pure the actual weight of water nowadays is 0.99997kg at 4°C and 1.013bar and I don't know which value for g. There is also another definition which I like, but is hard to measure in real life scenarios: E=mc². A kilogramm should be 1/c² of the mass which anything becomes heavier that you accelerate by the energy of one Joule. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.150|162.158.90.150]] 17:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:But how do you define/measure a Joule then? [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 18:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:No, until 1964, meter and litre were totally independent, a meter has never been defined directly or indirectly in relation to a mass of water. It is only since 1964 that the liter is defined as a cubic decimeter.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.36|162.158.90.36]] 18:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:Also, in E=mc², E is the energy '''at rest''' (for a stationary object of mass m), so your definition using the acceleration makes no sense.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.254|162.158.88.254]] 18:47, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
Actually, for the new definition of the kilo using the Kibble balance you need to measure the gravity... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.16|162.158.134.16]] 17:34, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
<br />
Welp, looks like 1 kg, a.k.a. 1 lb, a.k.a 2.2 lb, is now officially defined to have zero mass.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/172.69.50.28|172.69.50.28]] 16:56, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:…or infinite. [[User:Fabian42|Fabian42]] ([[User talk:Fabian42|talk]]) 16:59, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
::What I understand: the joke is not (only) about 1 (old) kg = 1 (old) lb, but (also) about 1 new kg = 1 old lb... or 1 new lb = 1 old kg :^) Or about a ring of positive characteristic --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.94|188.114.102.94]] 17:08, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
<br />
what about the ambiguity of the pound? would they reference an Avoirdupois bound or a Troy lb? --wonderkatn<br />
<br />
I don't believe the Imperial system is "no longer used". Gills have been retired, but yards and even chains are still in use, not to mention the Imperial <s>lb</s> pint. [[User:Yngvadottir|Yngvadottir]] ([[User talk:Yngvadottir|talk]]) 18:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
:The imperial system has some good things about it. Feet are divisible by 12, and Fahrenheit is much nicer for human temperatures. [[User:Linker|Linker]] ([[User talk:Linker|talk]]) 18:55, 16 November 2018 (UTC)<br />
::Yeah, coz it's so easier to divide by 12 than to divide by 10!</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1922:_Interferometry&diff=148489Talk:1922: Interferometry2017-11-29T20:05:09Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Newbie here just added the explanition and transcript, so will need editing.[[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.106|172.68.34.106]] 16:25, 29 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I think we both added it at the same time; when I submitted mine it showed normally in the edit box with the captcha, but when I pressed save it spliced your explanation and mine together. Think yours is probably better researched (I was typing off the top of my head), so I reverted it again. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.25|162.158.89.25]] 16:43, 29 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
Why is there a period after Interferometry in the first panel?[[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.106|172.68.34.106]] 19:04, 29 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
I really like the [citation needed] on whether dogs can interfere with each other. I want it to stay! --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 20:05, 29 November 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1910:_Sky_Spotters&diff=147348Talk:1910: Sky Spotters2017-11-03T13:41:32Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
<br />
Stargazers are not dangerous - they ignore anything closer than moon. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 00:54, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
:To many current administrations, pointing out provable facts can be *very* dangerous.<br />
:[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.190|162.158.75.190]] 04:16, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
::I just read the same sentence about Centaurs in the first Harry Potter book (reading for my daughter). But they would spot moving objects at night, and notice it were not stars, mentioning on their forums how annoying those light sources are ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:30, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The solution for the committee in the third panel might be to disguise their drones as birds which are very common for the time and place in which the drones are operating. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.112|162.158.75.112]] 15:14, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
:The real solution is to attach surveillance cameras to birds. --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40|108.162.216.40]] 15:29, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
:: The real solution is cyborg birds with embedded surveillance cameras.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.32|162.158.155.32]] 09:57, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Just paint it the color of the sk-oh wait. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.47.114|172.68.47.114]] 18:15, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
:Like this color: [[1556: The Sky]], and also check this [[1145: Sky Color]] ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:30, 2 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I see the military-industrial complex has been on and redacted the <span style="background:black">truth about UFOs</span>.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.32|162.158.155.32]] 09:59, 3 November 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1909:_Digital_Resource_Lifespan&diff=147347Talk:1909: Digital Resource Lifespan2017-11-03T13:19:51Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Even PDFs can be broken, which is why we have PDF/A (archive) - a subset of PDF that has no external dependencies and thus should last forever.<br />
[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]]<br />
:To clarify: .PDF files are *frequently* created with content such as fonts (or really anything other than the actual text) referenced within the document but not *embedded* within the document. This is usually done to reduce file size, but it's usually not advisable. Whether it's a .pdf or a .ppt or a .exe it is best to keep your dependencies embedded whenever possible!<br />
:.PDF files (or any files) can of course also suffer from hash failure (CRC errors, etc) and PDF/A does not provide redundancy tables; Always make an extra copy on another drive (ideally both off-site & locally).<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.77|162.158.69.77]] 06:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''CD scratched, new computer has no CD drive anyway.''' - First, you can still buy external CD-ROM drive, for example connected via USB cable. Second, you can try recover data from scratched CD with tools such as ddrescue (free and OSS) or IsoBuster (shareware). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 17:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Scratches on the DATA layer of any optical disk destroys that DATA. There is also the consideration that the plastics of the majority of optical disks degrade with time and heat. There are some optical media that are designed to prevent such scratching or corruption like the commercially available M-Disk or laser etching into a micro format into a crystal like a 5D disk. Even then the DATA stored must be in an ISO format to read as well as the equipment to read the media needs to be maintained. I have often told people that their data is never safe unless there is a constant effort to copy, check for quality, and make multiple backups using multiple modern mediums as often as humanly possible. All form of digital media can fail, even the extended warranty on a high end HDD will not cover the data lost and most EULAs for cloud storage will say the same.<br />
<br />
::Pressed commercial CD-ROMs carry their information between two 0.6 mm thick plastic discs which are glued together, which makes them pretty resilient against scratches on either side – just remove some material with abrasive methods like toothpaste. Often the glue is the bigger issue with low-quality pressings in the long run. This is in contrast to recordable CDs, which are coated with the reflective layer on top of a single disc. –[[User:TisTheAlmondTavern|TisTheAlmondTavern]] ([[User talk:TisTheAlmondTavern|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Or cheaper than an external drive, borrow a friend's computer and copy the CD onto the cloud somewhere. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What if you don't have any friends? (or what if none of your friends has a CD drive) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40|108.162.216.40]]<br />
<br />
:::You can still buy external friends that have CD drives.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 13:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yet something affected by that would just as likely be affected by "Broken on new OS, not updated". For example, I've got a multimedia encyclopedia which runs on Win 3.11, and thus can't run on 64-bit windows. <br />
:: Ehrm... You do realise the limitation is the other way around right? You can't run 64-bit application on 32-bit Windows, but 64-bit windows can perfectly well run 32-bit apps. Though Win 3.11 is far enough back it might actually be a fun challenge to see if it runs :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::You can not – Win 3.1(.1) was a 16bit operation system – and Microsoft dropped the 16-bit-layer in win7. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 19:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Interestingly, static .PDF files are intended to be electronic equivalents of printed books - an electronic microfiche if you will [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm wondering if data on an older, static, website would still be readable. Would likely still be there (or on archive.org), but might be suffering progressive link rot. Also a little surprised that the start of microfilm is so recent; I remember the library having microfilm readers (that nobody ever used) when I was young enough to spend ages staring at a machine, trying to determine its purpose. Guess it depends on the subject, when it was put into that format. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: archive.org returns contemporary pages for links on archived pages, so that should be still safe. The worst nightmare with archive.org is a newly-set robots.txt file: Wayback Machine will just pretend to know nothing about the page even if it has been archived in the past. It sometimes crawl pages, after all. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.16|172.68.54.16]] 07:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Angel, note both the My in the title and the left arrow implying that the resource (like books) were about before Randal had access. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: Should those white left arrows be noted in the transcript? The gray right arrows are implied by "past", perhaps something like "Before 1980-past 2020"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.16|162.158.63.16]] 17:39, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
"Only to realize'''d'''"? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:This is probably a typo'''ed'''.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 13:19, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[Subject] wiki, anyone? Wikis have rather detailed analyses of even obscure topics in my line of work/study. <sub>--[[User:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">Nialpxe</span>]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">(Arguments welcome)</span>]]</sub> (P.S. just to be clear I mean wikis maintained by researchers and professionals in [Subject] field, not Wikipedia)<br />
<br />
There's a wealth of thought about exactly this problem by librarians; [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rfs/TOC.html the Library of Congress has some recommendations] along with [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/index.html a database evaluating over a hundred formats] along a variety of axes: is the format documented openly? Is it widely used? Is it inherently transparent to inspection even if the specification is lost? Can it contain its own metadata? What sort of external dependencies does it have? Is it patent-encumbered, and are there technical access restrictions like DRM? (tl;dr, images as TIFF, text as EPUB or PDF/A, sound as WAV. They're very conservative.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.106|108.162.249.106]] 05:07, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Note that digital data have big advantage over books when dealing with bigger quantity. The amount of work you need to make to preserve printed book is same no matter how many books you have - so it's thousand times more when you have thousand books. Meanwhile, the amount of work needed to preserve for example collection of digital images doesn't really depend on collection size. Let's say that the used format is going out of use: you can automatically convert all images fairy quickly. Of course, harder with applications ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:23, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The software not running after OS update is such a Mac problem. Linux updates would break if closed software was commonly available, but open source can be recompiled, and Windows maintain a scarry amount of backwards compatibility, and only system-admin or DRM-crippled software ever stops working.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:54, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I must strongly disagree there; Networking features have been known to break following Windows updates, & Android is *terribly* prone to breaking apps or even removing what may be considered core system features with an OS update. Search "kitkat sd", for just one good example. Even Linux can turn into dependency hell when repositories change their branch structure. Then there's the incredible variety of different hardware which only a specific version of Windows with specific hardware once supported: I still can't get an affordable analog serial port adapter that will work with my favorite flight controller.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 06:37, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here in the UK, the library access would also have ended some time in the last few years...[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.32|162.158.155.32]] 11:33, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nothing lasts forever (or at least that's what seems to be true for anything observed by humanity). Data becomes corrupted and lost over time and usage, and books become damaged and lost over time and usage. Not to mention, thousands of books were burned during the Nazi regime. Human minds are inevitably subject to corrupted memories as well. We lose information all the time, and we try to recover what remains. However, it is also worth mentioning that our digital technology is still pretty young compared to books and other sources of information. Information used to be recorded on papyrus, tablets (I understand that this contradicts my point as some tablets have stood the test of time), etc. Some of the earliest Chinese inks were created with soot and animal glue. The first (attempts of) photographs required hours of light exposure and would fade away quickly. Over time, we discovered ways to improve upon these sources of information. The same could apply to our digital information today. We are essentially in the "papyrus" phase of electronic technology (one could argue with other descriptions, but this isn't significant to my statements). In time, we may achieve more successful long-term solutions to maintaining original data. There are so many avenues for the advancement of technology, and those avenues continue to multiply with each step. At this time, we just need to continue to work on our projects and experiments for the progress of humanity. [[User:NAE|NAE]] ([[User talk:NAE|talk]]) 14:29, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall did a good job frightening me this Halloween... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.88|172.68.34.88]] 02:10, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wonder if Randall is aware of digital archiving solutions such as those provided by Preservica (https://preservica.com/), formerly part of Tessella plc. Their solutions are aimed at precisely this problem. Their library/museum clients include "the MoMA, the Frick Collection, the Museum of Fine Arts Houston, Yale Library, The National Library of Australia, The Royal Danish Library, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, McNay Art Museum, DC Public Library and the University of Manchester" and their archive clients include "15 leading pan-national and national archives, 18 US state archives, major corporate archives at BT, HSBC, Unilever and the Associated Press". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.88|108.162.249.88]] 03:32, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall forgot my personal favorite: UTF-8 formatted .txt files. Since 1993 & counting, never had an issue opening one. I still have my first copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook, copied from a Kaypro II running CP/M on a 5-1/4" floppy to an 8088XT running MS-DOS on a 30mb hard drive to an IBM PS/2 286 on 20mb hard drive to an Asus 486 on a 3.5" floppy to a 1.2gHz Pentium on a 100mb Zip drive to a Core 2 Duo on a CD-R to an i7 system on a 128gb solid state drive, which was finally backed up to a 1tb hard drive & archived, as there's a newer copy to carry around. That original file still opens just fine on any PC I've ever used (including mobile).<br />
<br />
Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1909:_Digital_Resource_Lifespan&diff=147346Talk:1909: Digital Resource Lifespan2017-11-03T13:19:14Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Even PDFs can be broken, which is why we have PDF/A (archive) - a subset of PDF that has no external dependencies and thus should last forever.<br />
[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]]<br />
:To clarify: .PDF files are *frequently* created with content such as fonts (or really anything other than the actual text) referenced within the document but not *embedded* within the document. This is usually done to reduce file size, but it's usually not advisable. Whether it's a .pdf or a .ppt or a .exe it is best to keep your dependencies embedded whenever possible!<br />
:.PDF files (or any files) can of course also suffer from hash failure (CRC errors, etc) and PDF/A does not provide redundancy tables; Always make an extra copy on another drive (ideally both off-site & locally).<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.77|162.158.69.77]] 06:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''CD scratched, new computer has no CD drive anyway.''' - First, you can still buy external CD-ROM drive, for example connected via USB cable. Second, you can try recover data from scratched CD with tools such as ddrescue (free and OSS) or IsoBuster (shareware). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 17:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Scratches on the DATA layer of any optical disk destroys that DATA. There is also the consideration that the plastics of the majority of optical disks degrade with time and heat. There are some optical media that are designed to prevent such scratching or corruption like the commercially available M-Disk or laser etching into a micro format into a crystal like a 5D disk. Even then the DATA stored must be in an ISO format to read as well as the equipment to read the media needs to be maintained. I have often told people that their data is never safe unless there is a constant effort to copy, check for quality, and make multiple backups using multiple modern mediums as often as humanly possible. All form of digital media can fail, even the extended warranty on a high end HDD will not cover the data lost and most EULAs for cloud storage will say the same.<br />
<br />
::Pressed commercial CD-ROMs carry their information between two 0.6 mm thick plastic discs which are glued together, which makes them pretty resilient against scratches on either side – just remove some material with abrasive methods like toothpaste. Often the glue is the bigger issue with low-quality pressings in the long run. This is in contrast to recordable CDs, which are coated with the reflective layer on top of a single disc. –[[User:TisTheAlmondTavern|TisTheAlmondTavern]] ([[User talk:TisTheAlmondTavern|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Or cheaper than an external drive, borrow a friend's computer and copy the CD onto the cloud somewhere. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What if you don't have any friends? (or what if none of your friends has a CD drive) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40|108.162.216.40]]<br />
<br />
:::You can still buy external friends that have CD drives.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 13:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yet something affected by that would just as likely be affected by "Broken on new OS, not updated". For example, I've got a multimedia encyclopedia which runs on Win 3.11, and thus can't run on 64-bit windows. <br />
:: Ehrm... You do realise the limitation is the other way around right? You can't run 64-bit application on 32-bit Windows, but 64-bit windows can perfectly well run 32-bit apps. Though Win 3.11 is far enough back it might actually be a fun challenge to see if it runs :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::You can not – Win 3.1(.1) was a 16bit operation system – and Microsoft dropped the 16-bit-layer in win7. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 19:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Interestingly, static .PDF files are intended to be electronic equivalents of printed books - an electronic microfiche if you will [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm wondering if data on an older, static, website would still be readable. Would likely still be there (or on archive.org), but might be suffering progressive link rot. Also a little surprised that the start of microfilm is so recent; I remember the library having microfilm readers (that nobody ever used) when I was young enough to spend ages staring at a machine, trying to determine its purpose. Guess it depends on the subject, when it was put into that format. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: archive.org returns contemporary pages for links on archived pages, so that should be still safe. The worst nightmare with archive.org is a newly-set robots.txt file: Wayback Machine will just pretend to know nothing about the page even if it has been archived in the past. It sometimes crawl pages, after all. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.16|172.68.54.16]] 07:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Angel, note both the My in the title and the left arrow implying that the resource (like books) were about before Randal had access. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: Should those white left arrows be noted in the transcript? The gray right arrows are implied by "past", perhaps something like "Before 1980-past 2020"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.16|162.158.63.16]] 17:39, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
"Only to realize'''d'''"? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:This is probably a typo'''ed'''.<br />
<br />
[Subject] wiki, anyone? Wikis have rather detailed analyses of even obscure topics in my line of work/study. <sub>--[[User:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">Nialpxe</span>]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">(Arguments welcome)</span>]]</sub> (P.S. just to be clear I mean wikis maintained by researchers and professionals in [Subject] field, not Wikipedia)<br />
<br />
There's a wealth of thought about exactly this problem by librarians; [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rfs/TOC.html the Library of Congress has some recommendations] along with [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/index.html a database evaluating over a hundred formats] along a variety of axes: is the format documented openly? Is it widely used? Is it inherently transparent to inspection even if the specification is lost? Can it contain its own metadata? What sort of external dependencies does it have? Is it patent-encumbered, and are there technical access restrictions like DRM? (tl;dr, images as TIFF, text as EPUB or PDF/A, sound as WAV. They're very conservative.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.106|108.162.249.106]] 05:07, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Note that digital data have big advantage over books when dealing with bigger quantity. The amount of work you need to make to preserve printed book is same no matter how many books you have - so it's thousand times more when you have thousand books. Meanwhile, the amount of work needed to preserve for example collection of digital images doesn't really depend on collection size. Let's say that the used format is going out of use: you can automatically convert all images fairy quickly. Of course, harder with applications ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:23, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The software not running after OS update is such a Mac problem. Linux updates would break if closed software was commonly available, but open source can be recompiled, and Windows maintain a scarry amount of backwards compatibility, and only system-admin or DRM-crippled software ever stops working.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:54, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I must strongly disagree there; Networking features have been known to break following Windows updates, & Android is *terribly* prone to breaking apps or even removing what may be considered core system features with an OS update. Search "kitkat sd", for just one good example. Even Linux can turn into dependency hell when repositories change their branch structure. Then there's the incredible variety of different hardware which only a specific version of Windows with specific hardware once supported: I still can't get an affordable analog serial port adapter that will work with my favorite flight controller.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 06:37, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here in the UK, the library access would also have ended some time in the last few years...[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.32|162.158.155.32]] 11:33, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nothing lasts forever (or at least that's what seems to be true for anything observed by humanity). Data becomes corrupted and lost over time and usage, and books become damaged and lost over time and usage. Not to mention, thousands of books were burned during the Nazi regime. Human minds are inevitably subject to corrupted memories as well. We lose information all the time, and we try to recover what remains. However, it is also worth mentioning that our digital technology is still pretty young compared to books and other sources of information. Information used to be recorded on papyrus, tablets (I understand that this contradicts my point as some tablets have stood the test of time), etc. Some of the earliest Chinese inks were created with soot and animal glue. The first (attempts of) photographs required hours of light exposure and would fade away quickly. Over time, we discovered ways to improve upon these sources of information. The same could apply to our digital information today. We are essentially in the "papyrus" phase of electronic technology (one could argue with other descriptions, but this isn't significant to my statements). In time, we may achieve more successful long-term solutions to maintaining original data. There are so many avenues for the advancement of technology, and those avenues continue to multiply with each step. At this time, we just need to continue to work on our projects and experiments for the progress of humanity. [[User:NAE|NAE]] ([[User talk:NAE|talk]]) 14:29, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall did a good job frightening me this Halloween... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.88|172.68.34.88]] 02:10, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wonder if Randall is aware of digital archiving solutions such as those provided by Preservica (https://preservica.com/), formerly part of Tessella plc. Their solutions are aimed at precisely this problem. Their library/museum clients include "the MoMA, the Frick Collection, the Museum of Fine Arts Houston, Yale Library, The National Library of Australia, The Royal Danish Library, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, McNay Art Museum, DC Public Library and the University of Manchester" and their archive clients include "15 leading pan-national and national archives, 18 US state archives, major corporate archives at BT, HSBC, Unilever and the Associated Press". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.88|108.162.249.88]] 03:32, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall forgot my personal favorite: UTF-8 formatted .txt files. Since 1993 & counting, never had an issue opening one. I still have my first copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook, copied from a Kaypro II running CP/M on a 5-1/4" floppy to an 8088XT running MS-DOS on a 30mb hard drive to an IBM PS/2 286 on 20mb hard drive to an Asus 486 on a 3.5" floppy to a 1.2gHz Pentium on a 100mb Zip drive to a Core 2 Duo on a CD-R to an i7 system on a 128gb solid state drive, which was finally backed up to a 1tb hard drive & archived, as there's a newer copy to carry around. That original file still opens just fine on any PC I've ever used (including mobile).<br />
<br />
Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1909:_Digital_Resource_Lifespan&diff=147345Talk:1909: Digital Resource Lifespan2017-11-03T13:12:29Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
Even PDFs can be broken, which is why we have PDF/A (archive) - a subset of PDF that has no external dependencies and thus should last forever.<br />
[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]]<br />
:To clarify: .PDF files are *frequently* created with content such as fonts (or really anything other than the actual text) referenced within the document but not *embedded* within the document. This is usually done to reduce file size, but it's usually not advisable. Whether it's a .pdf or a .ppt or a .exe it is best to keep your dependencies embedded whenever possible!<br />
:.PDF files (or any files) can of course also suffer from hash failure (CRC errors, etc) and PDF/A does not provide redundancy tables; Always make an extra copy on another drive (ideally both off-site & locally).<br />
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.69.77|162.158.69.77]] 06:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
'''CD scratched, new computer has no CD drive anyway.''' - First, you can still buy external CD-ROM drive, for example connected via USB cable. Second, you can try recover data from scratched CD with tools such as ddrescue (free and OSS) or IsoBuster (shareware). --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 17:51, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Scratches on the DATA layer of any optical disk destroys that DATA. There is also the consideration that the plastics of the majority of optical disks degrade with time and heat. There are some optical media that are designed to prevent such scratching or corruption like the commercially available M-Disk or laser etching into a micro format into a crystal like a 5D disk. Even then the DATA stored must be in an ISO format to read as well as the equipment to read the media needs to be maintained. I have often told people that their data is never safe unless there is a constant effort to copy, check for quality, and make multiple backups using multiple modern mediums as often as humanly possible. All form of digital media can fail, even the extended warranty on a high end HDD will not cover the data lost and most EULAs for cloud storage will say the same.<br />
<br />
::Pressed commercial CD-ROMs carry their information between two 0.6 mm thick plastic discs which are glued together, which makes them pretty resilient against scratches on either side – just remove some material with abrasive methods like toothpaste. Often the glue is the bigger issue with low-quality pressings in the long run. This is in contrast to recordable CDs, which are coated with the reflective layer on top of a single disc. –[[User:TisTheAlmondTavern|TisTheAlmondTavern]] ([[User talk:TisTheAlmondTavern|talk]]) 12:24, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Or cheaper than an external drive, borrow a friend's computer and copy the CD onto the cloud somewhere. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::What if you don't have any friends? (or what if none of your friends has a CD drive) --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.40|108.162.216.40]]<br />
<br />
:::You can still buy external friends that have CD drives.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 13:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yet something affected by that would just as likely be affected by "Broken on new OS, not updated". For example, I've got a multimedia encyclopedia which runs on Win 3.11, and thus can't run on 64-bit windows. <br />
:: Ehrm... You do realise the limitation is the other way around right? You can't run 64-bit application on 32-bit Windows, but 64-bit windows can perfectly well run 32-bit apps. Though Win 3.11 is far enough back it might actually be a fun challenge to see if it runs :D [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:57, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:::You can not – Win 3.1(.1) was a 16bit operation system – and Microsoft dropped the 16-bit-layer in win7. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 19:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Interestingly, static .PDF files are intended to be electronic equivalents of printed books - an electronic microfiche if you will [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I'm wondering if data on an older, static, website would still be readable. Would likely still be there (or on archive.org), but might be suffering progressive link rot. Also a little surprised that the start of microfilm is so recent; I remember the library having microfilm readers (that nobody ever used) when I was young enough to spend ages staring at a machine, trying to determine its purpose. Guess it depends on the subject, when it was put into that format. --[[User:Angel|Angel]] ([[User talk:Angel|talk]]) 18:39, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: archive.org returns contemporary pages for links on archived pages, so that should be still safe. The worst nightmare with archive.org is a newly-set robots.txt file: Wayback Machine will just pretend to know nothing about the page even if it has been archived in the past. It sometimes crawl pages, after all. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.54.16|172.68.54.16]] 07:22, 3 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Angel, note both the My in the title and the left arrow implying that the resource (like books) were about before Randal had access. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 18:57, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
: Should those white left arrows be noted in the transcript? The gray right arrows are implied by "past", perhaps something like "Before 1980-past 2020"[[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.16|162.158.63.16]] 17:39, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
"Only to realize'''d'''? -[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.22|172.68.110.22]] 23:08, 30 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
[Subject] wiki, anyone? Wikis have rather detailed analyses of even obscure topics in my line of work/study. <sub>--[[User:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">Nialpxe</span>]], 2017. [[User_talk:Nialpxe|<span style="color: #000; text-decoration: none;">(Arguments welcome)</span>]]</sub> (P.S. just to be clear I mean wikis maintained by researchers and professionals in [Subject] field, not Wikipedia)<br />
<br />
There's a wealth of thought about exactly this problem by librarians; [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rfs/TOC.html the Library of Congress has some recommendations] along with [https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/index.html a database evaluating over a hundred formats] along a variety of axes: is the format documented openly? Is it widely used? Is it inherently transparent to inspection even if the specification is lost? Can it contain its own metadata? What sort of external dependencies does it have? Is it patent-encumbered, and are there technical access restrictions like DRM? (tl;dr, images as TIFF, text as EPUB or PDF/A, sound as WAV. They're very conservative.) [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.106|108.162.249.106]] 05:07, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Note that digital data have big advantage over books when dealing with bigger quantity. The amount of work you need to make to preserve printed book is same no matter how many books you have - so it's thousand times more when you have thousand books. Meanwhile, the amount of work needed to preserve for example collection of digital images doesn't really depend on collection size. Let's say that the used format is going out of use: you can automatically convert all images fairy quickly. Of course, harder with applications ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:23, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The software not running after OS update is such a Mac problem. Linux updates would break if closed software was commonly available, but open source can be recompiled, and Windows maintain a scarry amount of backwards compatibility, and only system-admin or DRM-crippled software ever stops working.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.202|162.158.202.202]] 10:54, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
:I must strongly disagree there; Networking features have been known to break following Windows updates, & Android is *terribly* prone to breaking apps or even removing what may be considered core system features with an OS update. Search "kitkat sd", for just one good example. Even Linux can turn into dependency hell when repositories change their branch structure. Then there's the incredible variety of different hardware which only a specific version of Windows with specific hardware once supported: I still can't get an affordable analog serial port adapter that will work with my favorite flight controller.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 06:37, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Here in the UK, the library access would also have ended some time in the last few years...[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.32|162.158.155.32]] 11:33, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Nothing lasts forever (or at least that's what seems to be true for anything observed by humanity). Data becomes corrupted and lost over time and usage, and books become damaged and lost over time and usage. Not to mention, thousands of books were burned during the Nazi regime. Human minds are inevitably subject to corrupted memories as well. We lose information all the time, and we try to recover what remains. However, it is also worth mentioning that our digital technology is still pretty young compared to books and other sources of information. Information used to be recorded on papyrus, tablets (I understand that this contradicts my point as some tablets have stood the test of time), etc. Some of the earliest Chinese inks were created with soot and animal glue. The first (attempts of) photographs required hours of light exposure and would fade away quickly. Over time, we discovered ways to improve upon these sources of information. The same could apply to our digital information today. We are essentially in the "papyrus" phase of electronic technology (one could argue with other descriptions, but this isn't significant to my statements). In time, we may achieve more successful long-term solutions to maintaining original data. There are so many avenues for the advancement of technology, and those avenues continue to multiply with each step. At this time, we just need to continue to work on our projects and experiments for the progress of humanity. [[User:NAE|NAE]] ([[User talk:NAE|talk]]) 14:29, 31 October 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall did a good job frightening me this Halloween... [[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.88|172.68.34.88]] 02:10, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I wonder if Randall is aware of digital archiving solutions such as those provided by Preservica (https://preservica.com/), formerly part of Tessella plc. Their solutions are aimed at precisely this problem. Their library/museum clients include "the MoMA, the Frick Collection, the Museum of Fine Arts Houston, Yale Library, The National Library of Australia, The Royal Danish Library, The Philadelphia Museum of Art, McNay Art Museum, DC Public Library and the University of Manchester" and their archive clients include "15 leading pan-national and national archives, 18 US state archives, major corporate archives at BT, HSBC, Unilever and the Associated Press". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.88|108.162.249.88]] 03:32, 1 November 2017 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Randall forgot my personal favorite: UTF-8 formatted .txt files. Since 1993 & counting, never had an issue opening one. I still have my first copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook, copied from a Kaypro II running CP/M on a 5-1/4" floppy to an 8088XT running MS-DOS on a 30mb hard drive to an IBM PS/2 286 on 20mb hard drive to an Asus 486 on a 3.5" floppy to a 1.2gHz Pentium on a 100mb Zip drive to a Core 2 Duo on a CD-R to an i7 system on a 128gb solid state drive, which was finally backed up to a 1tb hard drive & archived, as there's a newer copy to carry around. That original file still opens just fine on any PC I've ever used (including mobile).<br />
<br />
Also, I believe Linus Torvalds once said (talking about code, but it applies to anything sufficiently desirable) "Only wimps use tape backup, real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it ;)" I can certainly attest to that. I once made a torrent of all the Star Trek I'd accumulated (IE, all the Star Trek ever) & uploaded that. Two years later an old hard drive died & I was able to recover all 200+ gb in a little over 6 hours, simply by downloading my own torrent from other seeds. Thanks Trekkies![[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.10|162.158.75.10]] 07:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1815:_Flag&diff=1379861815: Flag2017-03-28T14:45:11Z<p>162.158.89.61: /* Flag design */ there are many flags with white stars and white bars, eg. Cuba or puerto rico. Also, Australia has no white bars other than the union jack, but Liberia has.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{comic<br />
| number = 1815<br />
| date = March 24, 2017<br />
| title = Flag<br />
| image = flag.png<br />
| titletext = There's a compromise bill to keep the notification bar but at least charge the battery.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Explanation==<br />
<br />
<br />
Presumably [[Randall]] was hired by a committee to propose a new {{w|flag}} for an unspecified country. The process of him editing the flag involved taking a screenshot of his design to export it, a mistake that went unnoticed by anyone until the flag was officially implemented.<br />
<br />
Once the problem was pointed out, the design committee placed the blame on Randall, but could not immediately undo their decision until new suggestions had been submitted and a new committee could agree on another design. Thus the country is now stuck with this design, making it the only country with such a bar in the flag.<br />
<br />
The title text mentions a compromise bill that will change the flag. This implies that the flag was approved with the status bar included. Apparently there is some controversy about removing the status bar from the flag as the compromise bill proposes to keeping the status bar and change the displayed percentage of the battery from 39% to 100%. This is wordplay on the term "charge" as used in {{w|vexillology}}, where it refers to a figure appearing on the background of the flag. It may also be a reference to [[1373: Screenshot]].<br />
<br />
===Flag design===<br />
The ''bar'' in ''notification bar'', is a vexillological descriptor, as in the "{{w|Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#First_flag:_the_.22Stars_and_Bars.22_.281861.E2.80.931863.29|Stars and Bars}}," a term used for the first flag of the {{w|Confederate States of America}}.<br />
<br />
Flags are often minimalist and involve geometric shapes and solid colors. A notification bar at the top of the flag would clash with these design elements as well as looking unprofessional.<br />
<br />
The elements of the flag's intended design&mdash;the colors red, white, and blue; the use of stripes; and the star emblems&mdash;are the same that are used in the American flag the {{w|Flag of the United States|Stars and Stripes}}. <br />
<br />
The elements of this flag is, however, also present in several other existing flags like those derived from {{w|Union Jack}}, the flag of the {{w|United Kingdom}}, like the flags of {{w|Flag_of_Australia|Australia}} and {{w|Flag_of_New_Zealand|New Zealand}}. They are also in the flags of {{w|Flag of North Korea|North Korea}}, {{w|Flag_of_Liberia|Liberia}} and {{w|Flag_of_Malaysia|Malaysia}}. The flags from USA, Australia, Liberia and Chile have [[commons:Category:Flags_with_white_stars|white stars]], and those of USA and Liberia have [[commons:Category:Flags_with_white_stripes|white bars]] as well.<br />
<br />
===Theories===<br />
The low battery status might imply that the country is low on resources. It thus seems like people have taken the reference to modern times smartphones to their hearts and actually wish to have this very modern design.<br />
<br />
But if they indeed continue with this, thinking that their country would look better with a full battery charge, they might also consider changing the 3G connection to the {{w|4G|newer 4G}} version and giving the phone a full signal (5/5 instead of only 3/5 dots), and maybe also choose a time that would mean something rather than 5:48 PM. For instance noon/midnight, or 8:00.<br />
<br />
The reason such a status bar could be missed in the first place could be that most people today look at pictures on their smartphones all the time, and thus their own phones status bar is indirectly included at the top of all the pictures they see. People thus do not notice these status bars any longer as they are always there and clearly not important for the picture. Randall has mentioned before, in [[1373: Screenshot]], that he cannot take smartphone screenshots seriously if the battery of the device is low, as he cannot focus on the content becoming afraid his own device runs out of power. A problem that only occurs if he sees it on his smartphone, as he then becomes concerned that it is his phone that is about to run out of charge. But in this status bar there are still 39%, high enough not to cause immediate concern. His fear of losing his on-line connection like this was the joke in a the comic [[1802: Phone]] released about a month before this one.<br />
<br />
Since Randall was asked to create this flag, it seems most likely that he would have to be a citizen of this new country. It could thus indicate that a group of states have broken free from the USA to form their own smaller union of three states, one for each star. With the current political situation in the states after {{w|Donald Trump|Donald Trump’s}} {{w|Inauguration of Donald Trump|inauguration}} there have been some talk about states leaving USA, and Randall has clearly been against the election of Trump, see [[1756: I'm With Her]]. His choice of comic subjects seems to have been [[I'm_With_Her#Sad_comics|affected]] by the election result. Since Randall lives in {{w|Massachusetts}}, it could be this and two other nearby states that have formed their own new union of states, maybe the other two small states {{w|Connecticut}} and {{w|Rhode Island}}.<br />
<br />
==Transcript==<br />
:[A two colored flag is shown. The left and rightmost parts of the flag are dark blue, and the center is red and each section has a large white star in its center. The colored parts are separated by thinner white vertical stripes. At the top of the flag, there is an off-white status bar like one found at the top of an iOS smart device. On the left it is displaying the strength of the connection (3/5 dots), in the center it is displaying the time and on the right there are three small icons the last is the battery charge:]<br />
:3G<br />
:5:48 PM <br />
:39%<br />
<br />
:[Below the panel there are two captions]<br />
:The design committee fired me once they realized that my editing process involved a screenshot, but it was too late.<br />
:Until they change it, our new country has the only national flag to include a phone notification bar.<br />
<br />
{{comic discussion}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Comics with color]]<br />
[[Category:Smartphones]]</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:558:_1000_Times&diff=136309Talk:558: 1000 Times2017-03-03T06:15:57Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div>Most honest:<br />
Bailout - 1.7 x 10^11<br />
Bonuses - 1.65 x 10^8<br />
[[User:BruceJohnJennerLawso|BruceJohnJennerLawso]] ([[User talk:BruceJohnJennerLawso|talk]]) 23:39, 17 November 2013 (UTC)<br />
:so what WERE the boni for?<br />
[[User:Weatherlawyer| I used Google News BEFORE it was clickbait]] ([[User talk:Weatherlawyer|talk]]) 16:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
::For bringing money into the company (from the government) according to those executives' contracts {{unsigned ip|198.41.235.59}}<br />
<br />
A bit surprised Randall ignored the still significant figure of 0.1% paid out as bonuses instead of being used to help revitalize the economy. [[User:Flewk|flewk]] ([[User talk:Flewk|talk]]) 07:50, 5 January 2016 (UTC)<br />
:I believe he was more upset about the dishonest reporting. How drastic that .1% are is a matter of debate, but I would argue that the amount of outrage the dishonest figures aim to incite is certainly unwarranted and would not serve any attempt at rational discourse. Randall has also shown a certain a ersion to making political comics and commentaries until recently. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 06:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1113:_Killed_in_Action&diff=135442Talk:1113: Killed in Action2017-02-16T07:01:06Z<p>162.158.89.61: </p>
<hr />
<div>The title text is essentially the beginning of the hanging paradox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox<br />
:It's not quite the same--[[User:Joehammer79|Joehammer79]] ([[User talk:Joehammer79|talk]]) 17:03, 27 September 2012 (UTC) thing.<br />
:The unexpected hanging paradox only applies when you have a measure of foreknowledge. [[User:Davidy22|Davidy22]] ([[User talk:Davidy22|talk]]) 05:50, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I think there's also a strong indication that this is mocking cop films from the 80's/90's, such as Lethal Weapon, where a character would always die just before retirement.<br />
--[[Special:Contributions/46.246.31.111|46.246.31.111]] 07:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This one is a variant of the old Czech joke: "The study has proved that statistically the most casualties happen in the last car of a train. Therefore the committee suggests to make all trains one car shorter." --[[User:Mity|Mity]] ([[User talk:Mity|talk]]) 09:59, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:On the other hand, adding a vacant car to the end of the train could be a reasonable approach.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.174|173.245.50.174]] 21:55, 7 September 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
This comics's explanation is complete bollocks, I think. Of course it is NOT a "fact that such a room exists". This comics parodies trope often used in cop movies - an elderly cop goes to work for the last time before his retirement, packs things, plans fishing the next day ... only to be called to one more case (possibly with a new, young and brash partner). And despites his efforts not to screw anything and stay clear of danger, he is either mortally wounded or screws big time and is degraded. So much clichè, that if someone says "It's my last day or service", you might be sure one of the two options above happens. See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Retirony for all the use cases and examples. [[User:Edheldil|Edheldil]] ([[User talk:Edheldil|talk]]) 10:25, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:I added the tv trope to the explanation. Didn't even see your comment at first, but why didn't you just change and add to the explanation yourself? That would be the whole point of the wiki. --[[User:Buggz|Buggz]] ([[User talk:Buggz|talk]]) 10:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
To add a little irony to the irony, the dead cop actually IS in a "locked, heavily guarded room." (There's a Sufi story along those lines.) The real solution to the retirony risk would be for their retirement day to fall within a 12 month window, chosen by some randomly generated number chosen before the shift begins. Thus they could avoid building up a hazardous "retirony field" focused around the point-source retirement day. Sort of like this thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_ring [[User:Noni Mausa|Noni Mausa]] ([[User talk:Noni Mausa|talk]]) 12:11, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:...But that doesn't eliminate the "retirony field", it only dispurses it over a larger area. The retirony claim would shift to "(s)he was due to retire this year" times the number of retirees within that retirement window. Assuming these tragic events are "uniformly distributed" the probability they'll happen will be present right up to the end of one's active tour of duty, no matter what. Shorten the train, indeed. :) -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:29, 26 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::How about simply not planning your retirement at all, and instead just spontaneously quitting at some point? [[User:Erenan|Erenan]] ([[User talk:Erenan|talk]]) 15:38, 27 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
:::Yeah, that would work. Writing it into a collective agreement might be a bit iffy...[[User:Noni Mausa|Noni Mausa]] ([[User talk:Noni Mausa|talk]]) 11:20, 28 September 2012 (UTC)<br />
::In some (read >=1) US jurisdictions (or maybe all, I just saw one story on reddit where it was explained) there is the possibility for officers who served a certain amount of time to keep working, but they have the right to quit at any time at a moment's notice without repercussions of any kind. Iirc the officers referred to someone in this state as having "pulled the pin", analogous to removing the safety pin on grenades hich would allow you to just drop it and let it blow up. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.89.61|162.158.89.61]] 07:01, 16 February 2017 (UTC)<br />
:Alternative route: declare someones retirement '''on the day of their retirement'''. Make sure to forbid them in the day of their retirement from taking any missions, no matter how much they need the cop! [[User:Greyson|Greyson]] ([[User talk:Greyson|talk]]) 15:17, 2 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
:That would not work. Working on Dec 30th, you would know for sure that Dec 31st would be your retirement date. So you cannot retire on Dec 31st. With that in mind: working on Dec 29th, you would know for sure that Dec 30th would be your retirement date. With that in mind: working on Dec 28th, you would know for sure that Dec 29th would be your retirement date. With that in mind.... --[[User:Oscar|Oscar]] ([[User talk:Oscar|talk]]) 13:02, 13 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
An unstated but related phenomenon is "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Confirmation Bias], where something significant stands out in our mind, causing us to overreact or use bad judgement. In this case, the confirmation bias makes it seem like cops are always killed on their last day, so they create such a room.<br />
:Actually, all cops who are killed on the job are killed on their last day!<br />
::Not necessary true in all movies. Detective [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Hopkirk Marty Hopkirk], for example, continued fighting crime after dead. [http://hellsing.wikia.com/wiki/Seras_Victoria Seras Victoria] changed the classical police officer uniform for a special force one but was still reffered as "police girl". I'm sure there are more examples. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 08:16, 5 October 2012 (UTC)<br />
^then show us these other examples if you're so sure. [[Special:Contributions/71.23.180.37|71.23.180.37]] 23:28, 30 December 2012 (UTC)Realist<br />
<br />
There is an easy solution: as soon as a cop is "getting too old for this shit", surely he's going to retire soon. So, to avoid the chance of retirony, you fire him immediately. This has the side effect of meaning you no longer need to pay any pensions. And, just as in every other case of "let's run this public service like a for-profit corporation", it can't possibly have any downsides. If people try to point out that such a policy will make it very hard to maintain a loyal and dedicated police force, you just call them socialists and soft on crime. Eventually they'll start gathering statistical proof that it was a bad idea, but all you have to do is maintain that the science still isn't 100% in because this one retired astrophysicist disagrees with all of the economists, so it would be rash to do anything. Keep that up for a decade or two, retire, and then blame all the problems on your successor. Everybody wins! [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 06:01, 18 September 2015 (UTC)</div>162.158.89.61