https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=198.41.231.135&feedformat=atomexplain xkcd - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T19:37:03ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1174:_App&diff=181204Talk:1174: App2019-10-13T00:16:52Z<p>198.41.231.135: Added siggy</p>
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<div>Interestingly, Scott Hanselman just made a [http://www.hanselman.com/blog/IdLikeToUseTheWebMyWayThankYouVeryMuchQuora.aspx blog post about this very issue]. Note how the page in its entirety was downloaded using his mobile data plan, but it's still in no way viewable. --[[User:Buggz|Buggz]] ([[User talk:Buggz|talk]]) 08:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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:By "in no way viewable" you mean mobile browsers don't support editing page's DOM like Chrome does out of the box and Firefox do with FireBug extension? (Try pressing F12). Not to speaking about the javascript-in-location-bar tricks someone already started posting on the blog post you mentioned. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:: I was talking about how the website is done by design. Since the whole page is downloaded you can of course start "hacking" your way through to the content, but that's besides the point. --[[User:Buggz|Buggz]] ([[User talk:Buggz|talk]]) 11:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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::: It may be seen as hacking now. But removing ads from websites was also seen as hacking until ad blockers becamed fully automated and popular. If those overlays becomes anoying enough, someone will code extension to get rid of them. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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::::Most mobile browsers don't support extensions, but you COULD disable JavaScript before viewing the page then re enabling it after.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.240|141.101.98.240]] 07:57, 4 November 2013 (UTC) <br />
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prompting mobile views = prompting people viewing the website from a mobile browser ("mobile views" is web designer terminology, not mainstream speech) {{unsigned|195.130.121.48}}<br />
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:Right, let's reword that (which you can do yourself, by the way, but I'll admit that from the main page it's not obvious for a newcomer). - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 11:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:<br />
::Seems like [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] did actually. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 11:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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Chainsaw Suit also made almost the same joke: http://chainsawsuit.com/2013/01/23/view-the-desktop-version-of-this-site/<br />
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It reminds me very much of the way tapatalk-enabled forums act. They keep prompting you to use the app, which - if you have the app - will not open the page you were on.<br />
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==What can we learn from this?==<br />
I've learned that there are a billion things in the world that still need to be improved and sometimes if you seeking inspirations for new inventions they sometimes stare you right in the face (Thank you Mr. XKCD). Software engineers among us, lets help them improve their designs and avoid their mistakes ok? - e-inspired [[Special:Contributions/24.51.197.187|24.51.197.187]] 19:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I have been heavily influenced by Randall's view on the browser vs mobile dichotomy, (https://xkcd.com/1367/ this being his best showerthought) but I have come to realize that native apps are a genuinely better product than any webpage can be. The fact that apps don't have zoom is a feature, who wants to zoom to a picture, then pan to a scroll bar to move down and then go back to the picture column. Mobile has caught up in terms of UX and product quality, the reason Randall was initially skeptical is because he was born and raised in an internet generation where the best products and users had keyboards and browsers.-- Tomás [[Special:Contributions/198.41.231.135|198.41.231.135]] 00:16, 13 October 2019 (UTC)</div>198.41.231.135https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:1174:_App&diff=181203Talk:1174: App2019-10-13T00:16:22Z<p>198.41.231.135: </p>
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<div>Interestingly, Scott Hanselman just made a [http://www.hanselman.com/blog/IdLikeToUseTheWebMyWayThankYouVeryMuchQuora.aspx blog post about this very issue]. Note how the page in its entirety was downloaded using his mobile data plan, but it's still in no way viewable. --[[User:Buggz|Buggz]] ([[User talk:Buggz|talk]]) 08:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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:By "in no way viewable" you mean mobile browsers don't support editing page's DOM like Chrome does out of the box and Firefox do with FireBug extension? (Try pressing F12). Not to speaking about the javascript-in-location-bar tricks someone already started posting on the blog post you mentioned. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:: I was talking about how the website is done by design. Since the whole page is downloaded you can of course start "hacking" your way through to the content, but that's besides the point. --[[User:Buggz|Buggz]] ([[User talk:Buggz|talk]]) 11:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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::: It may be seen as hacking now. But removing ads from websites was also seen as hacking until ad blockers becamed fully automated and popular. If those overlays becomes anoying enough, someone will code extension to get rid of them. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 09:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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::::Most mobile browsers don't support extensions, but you COULD disable JavaScript before viewing the page then re enabling it after.<br />
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.240|141.101.98.240]] 07:57, 4 November 2013 (UTC) <br />
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prompting mobile views = prompting people viewing the website from a mobile browser ("mobile views" is web designer terminology, not mainstream speech) {{unsigned|195.130.121.48}}<br />
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:Right, let's reword that (which you can do yourself, by the way, but I'll admit that from the main page it's not obvious for a newcomer). - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 11:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:<br />
::Seems like [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] did actually. - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 11:49, 15 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
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Chainsaw Suit also made almost the same joke: http://chainsawsuit.com/2013/01/23/view-the-desktop-version-of-this-site/<br />
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It reminds me very much of the way tapatalk-enabled forums act. They keep prompting you to use the app, which - if you have the app - will not open the page you were on.<br />
<br />
==What can we learn from this?==<br />
I've learned that there are a billion things in the world that still need to be improved and sometimes if you seeking inspirations for new inventions they sometimes stare you right in the face (Thank you Mr. XKCD). Software engineers among us, lets help them improve their designs and avoid their mistakes ok? - e-inspired [[Special:Contributions/24.51.197.187|24.51.197.187]] 19:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC)<br />
:I have been heavily influenced by Randall's view on the browser vs mobile dichotomy, (https://xkcd.com/1367/ this being his best showerthought) but I have come to realize that native apps are a genuinely better product than any webpage can be. The fact that apps don't have zoom is a feature, who wants to zoom to a picture, then pan to a scroll bar to move down and then go back to the picture column. Mobile has caught up in terms of UX and product quality, the reason Randall was initially skeptical is because he was born and raised in an internet generation where the best products and users had keyboards and browsers.</div>198.41.231.135https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2193:_Well-Ordering_Principle&diff=178574Talk:2193: Well-Ordering Principle2019-08-26T16:50:59Z<p>198.41.231.135: REORDERING OF CONFUSING ORDER OF COMMENTS IN SOURCE CODE</p>
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<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
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Still a "trap": POOF, you're now the worst McFly cosplayer; here's a mirror.<br />
:She asked about people who 'tried' to dress as Marty McFly. So unless Megan has ever tried to dress as him, I don't think she can be the answer.[[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:10, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::_Technically_, Megan never used the formal "I wish" construction: she had "my wish is" and "just show me." Since the genie didn't immediately grant it in response to "my wish is," either (1) it's not possible (see other folks' comments below), (2) like Alex Trebec, he requires the proper format, or (3) we can assume that he'll respond to a direct order ... in which case, Megan will become a McFly cosplayer in a subsequent panel. :p<br />
:Considering that wishing for any of the genie's suggestions would make her a wanted criminal that stole a billion dollars, a housefly in a room full of irritable people, or a genie trapped in a lamp for all eternity, this is hardly a terrible fate. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.65.66|172.68.65.66]] 14:04, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:: Beware. The worst Marty McFly may be truly terrible. Or it could be a little kid in a costume they made out of craft paper and colored in crayon, terrible but adorable... but it could involve (1) real lightning, (2) real plutonium, (3) the band McFly, (4) actually a dog in costume, (5) actually a fly in costume, (6) Jeff Goldblum from "The Fly" i.e. fly head not Jeff Goldblum head - in costume, (7) Cthulhu - in costume. (The last and worst trick-or-treat you'll ever see; he would qualify.) rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.209|162.158.158.209]] 14:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:She only wished to see "their costume". So the genie could trap her by only showing the costume, without letting her know how it looked on the wearer. In fact, the genie can also opt to ignore the "singular they" madness and bury her in a pile of costumes (of everyone who ever wore one for Halloween). [[Special:Contributions/198.41.231.135|198.41.231.135]] 16:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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*Are* costumes well-ordered? Even leaving aside the subjectivity of any ranking, there are several different criteria which could be used, and many ways of combining them. (What if the costume which looked least like Marty wasn't the ugliest, nor the one showing least effort?) — Also, may be worth qualifying the explanation of Halloween by mentioning the USA; some other countries don't celebrate it, and of those that do, not all do trick-or-treating or dressing-up &c. [[User:Gidds|Gidds]] ([[User talk:Gidds|talk]]) 00:23, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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::Saying there are different criteria kind of overlaps with saying the ranking is subjective. But far worse, even individual preferences are preorders aka quasiorders, which absolutely does mean that there may not be a worst, or even a set of costumes tied for worst. However, the fact that you can always find someone (e.g. on Amazon Mechanical Turk, or off the street, or on a wiki somewhere) to give you another opinion means that well-foundedness can be rescued with their {{w|mean opinion score}}. I wonder if the genie is powerful enough to know the asymptotic MOS ranking right away, or if it will have to wait for enough Amazon Mechanical Turk HITs to be completed. Given that there must have been at least hundreds of thousands of consumes so far, that could take quite a long time to achieve p<0.05. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.248|172.69.22.248]] 04:00, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::I've spent way too much time on this, but the more I do, the more I think Randall is trying to say something about the simulation hypothesis, related to the theme on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th5uJNB7VU8 ''Watch Room''] (warning: somewhat creepy but otherwise ok sci-fi short.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.134|172.69.22.134]] 12:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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I hope this Munroe lowkey challenging the internet, that we might actually celebrate our infamous king (or girl marty queen) of crappy costume. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.58.219|162.158.58.219]] 00:37, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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The "worst McFly" and "even" sounds like there should be a math pun in there somewhere, but I don't see it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.11|172.69.63.11]] 01:36, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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"It's been over 30 years since Back to the Future came out." That makes me feel old. Isn't that something that Munroe does regularly? Should that be mentioned in the explanation? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.88|162.158.214.88]] 10:42, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, I am sure there have been at least two comics where the often surprising ages of things formed a central part of the theme, but I can't remember enough about them to find them. Anyone? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.82|162.158.255.82]] 11:55, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::Just see [[:Category:Comics to make one feel old]] :-). --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 12:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.134|172.69.22.134]] 12:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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"The real Worst McFly is probably lost to time" is also a pun regarding the fact that ''Back to the Future'' is a time-travel story.--[[User:MCBastos|MCBastos]] ([[User talk:MCBastos|talk]]) 17:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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I wonder if this could be trap from Megan - even unintended one: in some stories, the Genie could get into problems if he CANT fulfill the wish ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:07, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Even if "preference" is a total order (i.e. connex and anti-symmetric, I think both of these are debatable) it isn't necessarily a well order, however, since the set of costumes is finite, there would still be a "worst" one. [[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 03:17, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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:It's not a total preorder unless you don't let people have "no opinion" about some pairs, which is an acceptable constraint for preferences based on established objective criteria, but not something so subjective like quality of fashion. In practice, a lot of people are going to have least favorites between which they don't care. Surveys of subjective preferences almost always allow people to say that they don't have opinions or are not sure. Even in technically objective measures, like short- versus long-term bond yield curves, you can sometimes prove that people objectively should have certain preferences upon which they are clearly not acting. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.19|172.68.189.19]] 07:40, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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Sounds like a trap -- for the genie. Keep it busy so that it can't inflict "wishes" on others. Much more subtle than "find the last digit of pi", but possibly still a "halting problem" that can never be fully solved.</div>198.41.231.135https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:2193:_Well-Ordering_Principle&diff=178572Talk:2193: Well-Ordering Principle2019-08-26T16:50:01Z<p>198.41.231.135: THEIR COSTUME</p>
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<div><!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.--><br />
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Still a "trap": POOF, you're now the worst McFly cosplayer; here's a mirror.<br />
:She asked about people who 'tried' to dress as Marty McFly. So unless Megan has ever tried to dress as him, I don't think she can be the answer.[[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 00:10, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::_Technically_, Megan never used the formal "I wish" construction: she had "my wish is" and "just show me." Since the genie didn't immediately grant it in response to "my wish is," either (1) it's not possible (see other folks' comments below), (2) like Alex Trebec, he requires the proper format, or (3) we can assume that he'll respond to a direct order ... in which case, Megan will become a McFly cosplayer in a subsequent panel. :p<br />
:Considering that wishing for any of the genie's suggestions would make her a wanted criminal that stole a billion dollars, a housefly in a room full of irritable people, or a genie trapped in a lamp for all eternity, this is hardly a terrible fate. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.65.66|172.68.65.66]] 14:04, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:She only wished to see "their costume". So the genie could trap her by only showing the costume, without letting her know how it looked on the wearer. In fact, the genie can also opt to ignore the "singular they" madness and bury her in a pile of costumes (of everyone who ever wore one for Halloween). [[Special:Contributions/198.41.231.135|198.41.231.135]] 16:50, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Beware. The worst Marty McFly may be truly terrible. Or it could be a little kid in a costume they made out of craft paper and colored in crayon, terrible but adorable... but it could involve (1) real lightning, (2) real plutonium, (3) the band McFly, (4) actually a dog in costume, (5) actually a fly in costume, (6) Jeff Goldblum from "The Fly" i.e. fly head not Jeff Goldblum head - in costume, (7) Cthulhu - in costume. (The last and worst trick-or-treat you'll ever see; he would qualify.) rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.209|162.158.158.209]] 14:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
*Are* costumes well-ordered? Even leaving aside the subjectivity of any ranking, there are several different criteria which could be used, and many ways of combining them. (What if the costume which looked least like Marty wasn't the ugliest, nor the one showing least effort?) — Also, may be worth qualifying the explanation of Halloween by mentioning the USA; some other countries don't celebrate it, and of those that do, not all do trick-or-treating or dressing-up &c. [[User:Gidds|Gidds]] ([[User talk:Gidds|talk]]) 00:23, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Saying there are different criteria kind of overlaps with saying the ranking is subjective. But far worse, even individual preferences are preorders aka quasiorders, which absolutely does mean that there may not be a worst, or even a set of costumes tied for worst. However, the fact that you can always find someone (e.g. on Amazon Mechanical Turk, or off the street, or on a wiki somewhere) to give you another opinion means that well-foundedness can be rescued with their {{w|mean opinion score}}. I wonder if the genie is powerful enough to know the asymptotic MOS ranking right away, or if it will have to wait for enough Amazon Mechanical Turk HITs to be completed. Given that there must have been at least hundreds of thousands of consumes so far, that could take quite a long time to achieve p<0.05. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.248|172.69.22.248]] 04:00, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::I've spent way too much time on this, but the more I do, the more I think Randall is trying to say something about the simulation hypothesis, related to the theme on [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th5uJNB7VU8 ''Watch Room''] (warning: somewhat creepy but otherwise ok sci-fi short.) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.134|172.69.22.134]] 12:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
I hope this Munroe lowkey challenging the internet, that we might actually celebrate our infamous king (or girl marty queen) of crappy costume. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.58.219|162.158.58.219]] 00:37, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
The "worst McFly" and "even" sounds like there should be a math pun in there somewhere, but I don't see it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.63.11|172.69.63.11]] 01:36, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
"It's been over 30 years since Back to the Future came out." That makes me feel old. Isn't that something that Munroe does regularly? Should that be mentioned in the explanation? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.88|162.158.214.88]] 10:42, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:Yes, I am sure there have been at least two comics where the often surprising ages of things formed a central part of the theme, but I can't remember enough about them to find them. Anyone? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.82|162.158.255.82]] 11:55, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
::Just see [[:Category:Comics to make one feel old]] :-). --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 12:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
:::Thanks {{done}} [[Special:Contributions/172.69.22.134|172.69.22.134]] 12:38, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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"The real Worst McFly is probably lost to time" is also a pun regarding the fact that ''Back to the Future'' is a time-travel story.--[[User:MCBastos|MCBastos]] ([[User talk:MCBastos|talk]]) 17:20, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
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I wonder if this could be trap from Megan - even unintended one: in some stories, the Genie could get into problems if he CANT fulfill the wish ... -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:07, 24 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Even if "preference" is a total order (i.e. connex and anti-symmetric, I think both of these are debatable) it isn't necessarily a well order, however, since the set of costumes is finite, there would still be a "worst" one. [[User:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|Probably not Douglas Hofstadter]] ([[User talk:Probably not Douglas Hofstadter|talk]]) 03:17, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It's not a total preorder unless you don't let people have "no opinion" about some pairs, which is an acceptable constraint for preferences based on established objective criteria, but not something so subjective like quality of fashion. In practice, a lot of people are going to have least favorites between which they don't care. Surveys of subjective preferences almost always allow people to say that they don't have opinions or are not sure. Even in technically objective measures, like short- versus long-term bond yield curves, you can sometimes prove that people objectively should have certain preferences upon which they are clearly not acting. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.189.19|172.68.189.19]] 07:40, 25 August 2019 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Sounds like a trap -- for the genie. Keep it busy so that it can't inflict "wishes" on others. Much more subtle than "find the last digit of pi", but possibly still a "halting problem" that can never be fully solved.</div>198.41.231.135