1392: Dominant Players - Revision history

76.183.232.121 at 01:18, 8 August 2025

2025-08-08T01:18:30Z

172.70.162.51: /* Explanation */ Alternately, "James ... Wade ... and Paul". Funny, though that all three have surnames that are also viably forenames. ;)

2025-05-03T01:27:49Z

‎Explanation: Alternately, "James ... Wade ... and Paul". Funny, though that all three have surnames that are also viably forenames. ;)

172.70.211.33: /* Where is Viswanathan Anand? */ not even "clear"

2025-05-02T20:02:47Z

‎Where is Viswanathan Anand?: not even "clear"

172.70.211.33: /* Player inclusion criteria */ ce

2025-05-02T20:01:50Z

‎Player inclusion criteria: ce

172.70.207.172: /* Chess (women) */

2025-05-02T19:53:42Z

‎Chess (women)

172.70.207.138: /* Trivia */ ce

2025-05-02T19:47:32Z

‎Trivia: ce

172.70.207.138: /* Chess vs chess (women) */ clarify

2025-05-02T19:46:10Z

‎Chess vs chess (women): clarify

FaviFake at 12:03, 2 March 2025

2025-03-02T12:03:14Z

FaviFake: added Category:Comics edited after their publication using HotCat

2025-03-02T12:03:07Z

added Category:Comics edited after their publication using HotCat

FaviFake at 12:02, 2 March 2025

2025-03-02T12:02:56Z

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 The title text mentions {{w|Vera Menchik}} who is also the first female chess player listed at the left of the bottom panel. In January 1926 she won the first Girls' Open Championship at the Imperial Club in London, but as can be seen in the last panel she was killed near the end of World War II, 38-year-old, while still holding the title of women's world champion. She, her sister, and mother were killed in a {{w|V-1 flying bomb}} attack which destroyed their home in 1944.
-The title text mentions her specifically because of the club named after her: {{w|Vera_Menchik#The_.22Vera_Menchik_Club.22|The "Vera Menchik Club"}}. When in 1929, Menchik entered the {{w|Carlsbad 1929 chess tournament|Carlsbad}}, Viennese master, usually a tournament only for male chess players, one of the other chess players, {{w|Albert Becker (chess player)|Albert Becker}}, ridiculed her entry by proposing that any player whom Menchik defeated in tournament play should be granted membership into the Vera Menchik Club. In the same tournament, Becker himself became the first member of the "club", much to his ridicule. It should be noted that she did end in last place vs. his fifth place, but that must just have made the defeat even tougher to take for Albert.
+The title text mentions her specifically because of the club named after her: {{w|Vera_Menchik#The_.22Vera_Menchik_Club.22|The "Vera Menchik Club"}}. When in 1929, Menchik entered the {{w|Carlsbad 1929 chess tournament|Carlsbad}}, usually a tournament only for male chess players, one of the other chess players, Viennese master {{w|Albert Becker (chess player)|Albert Becker}}, ridiculed her entry by proposing that any player whom Menchik defeated in tournament play should be granted membership into the Vera Menchik Club. In the same tournament, Becker himself became the first member of the "club", much to his ridicule. It should be noted that she did end in last place vs. his fifth place, but that must just have made the defeat even tougher to take for Albert.
 Albert was the first, but far from the last male chess player to enter the Vera Menchik Club. No less than 19 other male chess players are listed on Wikipedia belonging to this club, amongst them {{w|Max Euwe}} who went on to become World Chess Champion (1935–37). So it can for sure be said that the club accumulated a "large and illustrious roster". One and a half year later a comic, named after {{w|Magnus Carlsen}}, was released ([[1628: Magnus]]). This comics also compares chess players (Magnus) to other (sporting) events. Magnus was ranked no. 1 on the chess world rank when both comics were released.

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 Similarly can be mentioned for instance the no. 1 ranked chess player {{w|Veselin Topalov}} from Bulgaria, who was ranked first both in 2006-2007 and in 2008-2010 for a total of less than two years. And there are likely several others ([[#Where is Viswanathan Anand|see below]]).
-An example of the above for basketball would be the 2008–2009 season which was unique in that it was the only season in which more than one player posted an efficiency ratings of over 30.0 on the Player efficiency rating (see at the bottom of {{w|Player efficiency rating#Reference guide|this section}} on Wikipedia). In that season three players broke this barrier: LeBron James (31.76), {{w|Dwyane Wade}} (30.46), and Chris Paul (30.04). LeBron is shown to top that season, but Dwyane is far below (thus the scale does not fit?) and Paul is not on the list at all (i.e. he was not deemed to be a dominant player).
+An example of the above for basketball would be the 2008–2009 season which was unique in that it was the only season in which more than one player posted an efficiency ratings of over 30.0 on the Player efficiency rating (see at the bottom of {{w|Player efficiency rating#Reference guide|this section}} on Wikipedia). In that season three players broke this barrier: LeBron James (31.76), {{w|Dwyane Wade}} (30.46), and Chris Paul (30.04). LeBron is shown to top that season, but Dwyane is far below (thus the scale does not fit?) and Chris is not on the list at all (i.e. he was not deemed to be a dominant player).
 So is this [[Randall|Randall's]] subjective list of players that he has deemed to be "dominant players" and not a full list of the best ranked players during the time period? Of course it is his choice which players he put into the list, but missing players (when worse has been included earlier) can be explained if the missing players never were among the most dominant player over a length of time. It is not a list of the best players of all time, or of a single season, but a chart of the dominant players over a longer time period.

@@ Line 83: / Line 83: @@
 ====Where is Viswanathan Anand?====
-None of the above can explain why former World Champion Chess Grandmaster {{w|Viswanathan Anand}} has not been included in the Chess Chart. Anand is one of only thirteen players in history to break the 2800 mark on the FIDE rating list and and still (as of 2020) has the eighth highest FIDE ranking at peak ever. He occupied the number one position in several rating lists between 2007 and 2011. The reason could possible be because Randall may be a huge fan of Magnus Carlsen, and thus biased against Anand - there is some evidence for this in [[1287: Puzzle]]. In the title text of that comic it seems that Randall makes fun of Anand in a match against Magnus. The interpretation of the comic and its comment, however, appear to be a double-edged matter of debate. However, since the release of [[1628: Magnus]], named after Magnus, there can be no doubt that Randall is a fan of Magnus.
+None of the above can explain why former World Champion Chess Grandmaster {{w|Viswanathan Anand}} has not been included in the Chess Chart. Anand is one of only thirteen players in history to break the 2800 mark on the FIDE rating list and and still (as of 2020) has the eighth highest FIDE ranking at peak ever. He occupied the number one position in several rating lists between 2007 and 2011. The reason could possible be because Randall may be a huge fan of Magnus Carlsen, and thus biased against Anand. However, since the release of [[1628: Magnus]], named after Magnus, there can be no doubt that Randall is a fan of Magnus.
 Anand can for instance be found in the {{w|Chessmetrics}} devised by statistician {{w|Jeff Sonas}}. In the [http://www.chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/Summary.asp graph from 1995-2005] of Sonas famous research from 2005, Anand becomes the best during 2004. It can, however, also be seen that Randall does not agree with Sonas - this is very clear in this [http://www.chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/Summary.asp?Params=194020SSSSS3S000000000000111000000000000010100 graph from 1940-1960]. Here Mikhail Botvinnik clearly plays way better than Alexander Alekhine in 1946, where Alexander dies. This is not shown like this in the comic. Maybe the death of Alexander becomes the more interesting in the comic, if you believed he was the best at the time. Note that all nine (male) names listed in the comics chart between the lines at 1950 and 2000 are included in this [http://www.chessmetrics.com/cm/CM2/Summary.asp?Params=195050SSSSS3S000000000000111000000000000010100 graph from 1950-2000]. In this chart it is clear that Bobby Fischer was by far the best in the years before he disappeared. However, he was caught by {{w|Anatoly Karpov}} just before which is not shown in the comic. On the other hand, he seems to have reached a significant higher rating than Kasparov ever did, which is also not the case in the comic.

@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 ===Player inclusion criteria===
-In general not all possible players are included in these charts. For instance it is mentioned that Judit Polgar was the first woman ranked in the over all top 10. But only six players are shown on the over all chart around 2005, where she was ranked 8th. So some male players, better than her at that time, have not been included. This is a general trend for all three charts.
+In general not all possible players are included in these charts. For instance it is mentioned that Judit Polgar was the first woman ranked in the overall top 10. But only six players are shown on the overall chart around 2005, where she was ranked 8th. So some male players, better than her at that time, have not been included. This is a general trend for all three charts.
-From the Woman's panel below it is also clear that some of the other women would be ranked high enough to be visible on the upper chart as mentioned in the [[#Scales of the axis|Scales]] section above. But still only Judit is shown there. 9 out of 12 of the women that are on the chart after 1989 would be visible if included in the overall chart. However, none of them could be called dominant when comparing to the best men in the same time period. And thus they are not included. Maybe the same could be said about Judth, but then she is included for scale, and because she is so good that she can compete with, and sometimes beat, the best.
+From the women's panel below it is also clear that some of the other women would be ranked high enough to be visible on the upper chart as mentioned in the [[#Scales of the axis|Scales]] section above. But still only Judit is shown there. 9 out of 12 of the women that are on the chart after 1989 would be visible if included in the overall chart. However, none of them could be called dominant when comparing to the best men in the same time period. And thus they are not included. Maybe the same could be said about Judth, but then she is included for scale, and because she is so good that she can compete with, and sometimes beat, the best.
 Some NBA players (like {{w|Tim Duncan}}, {{w|Charles Barkley}}, {{w|Oscar Robertson}}, {{w|Kobe Bryant}}, and {{w|Chris Paul}}) have been left out of the chart in favor of players with lower career and yearly efficiency ratings.
@@ Line 72: / Line 72: @@
 Similarly can be mentioned for instance the no. 1 ranked chess player {{w|Veselin Topalov}} from Bulgaria, who was ranked first both in 2006-2007 and in 2008-2010 for a total of less than two years. And there are likely several others ([[#Where is Viswanathan Anand|see below]]).
-An example of the above for Basketball would be the 2008–2009 season which was unique in that it was the only season in which more than one player posted an efficiency ratings of over 30.0 on the Player efficiency rating (see at the bottom of {{w|Player efficiency rating#Reference guide|this section}} on Wikipedia). In that season three players broke this barrier: LeBron James (31.76), {{w|Dwyane Wade}} (30.46), and Chris Paul (30.04). LeBron is shown to top that season, But Dwyane is far below (thus the scale does not fit?) and Chris is not on the list at all (i.e. he was not deemed to be a dominant player).
+An example of the above for basketball would be the 2008–2009 season which was unique in that it was the only season in which more than one player posted an efficiency ratings of over 30.0 on the Player efficiency rating (see at the bottom of {{w|Player efficiency rating#Reference guide|this section}} on Wikipedia). In that season three players broke this barrier: LeBron James (31.76), {{w|Dwyane Wade}} (30.46), and Chris Paul (30.04). LeBron is shown to top that season, but Dwyane is far below (thus the scale does not fit?) and Paul is not on the list at all (i.e. he was not deemed to be a dominant player).
-So is this [[Randall|Randall's]] subjective list of players that he has deemed to be "Dominant Players" and not a full list of the best ranked players during the time period? Of course it is his choice which players he put into the list, but missing players (when worse has been included earlier) can be explained if the missing players never were among the most dominant player over a length of time. It is not a list of the best players of all time, or of a single season, but a chart of the dominant players over a longer time period.
+So is this [[Randall|Randall's]] subjective list of players that he has deemed to be "dominant players" and not a full list of the best ranked players during the time period? Of course it is his choice which players he put into the list, but missing players (when worse has been included earlier) can be explained if the missing players never were among the most dominant player over a length of time. It is not a list of the best players of all time, or of a single season, but a chart of the dominant players over a longer time period.
 For basketball any given player will at least have been the 2nd best (of those included) at some (longer) period of their career. And to become selected for a red curve, they need to be the best for at least five years - the first players curve is no. 1 less than five year, but he could have been no. 1 also before 1951.
-The same is valid for the Chess players (again the first players curve is red, but stops just as it enters the panel). Only exception is Judit Polgar. She is never better than 3rd of those selected. And she was never better than 8th in the world. So her inclusion is a mentioned probably only to compare her with the men.
+The same is valid for the chess players (again the first player's curve is red, but stops just as it enters the panel). Only exception is Judit Polgar. She is never better than 3rd of those selected. And she was never better than 8th in the world. So her inclusion is mentioned probably only to compare her with the men.
-For the woman chess players there are the same criteria for red, except that Sonja Graf is not red although she is the only chess player on the list for more than a decade. Maybe you need to be better than someone else to become red? There are also included several women who never reaches 2nd place on the chart. Three of these reaches 3rd place and two only 4th. One of these, Anna Muzychuk, is still on the rise, so she might be on the chart, because she could possibly become first or second if she can continue to improve. The other, Sofia Polgar, is included to show that all three Polgar sisters are chess masters.
+For the women chess players, there are the same criteria for red, except that Sonja Graf is not red although she is the only chess player on the list for more than a decade. Maybe you need to be better than someone else to become red? There are also included several women who never reach 2nd place on the chart. Three of these reach 3rd place and two only 4th. One of these, Anna Muzychuk, is still on the rise, so she might be on the chart, because she could possibly become first or second if she can continue to improve. The other, Sofia Polgar, is included to show that all three Polgar sisters are chess masters.
 ====Where is Viswanathan Anand?====

@@ Line 50: / Line 50: @@
 ====Chess (women)====
-*{{w|Vera Menchik}} – "Died in a missile attack on London". This is the Last starburst. She was killed in 1944 by an early guided missile - a {{w|V-1 flying bomb}} - launched by the Germans in {{w|World War II}}. For some reason her path does not seems to be dashed, as it should have been before 1970, but it may be simply because the dashes were obscured by her name. She is also mentioned in the title text, see above in the [[#Explanation|Explanation]].
+*{{w|Vera Menchik}} – "Died in a missile attack on London". This is the last starburst. She was killed in 1944 by an early guided missile - a {{w|V-1 flying bomb}} - launched by the Germans in {{w|World War II}}. For some reason her path does not seems to be dashed, as it should have been before 1970, but it may be simply because the dashes were obscured by her name. She is also mentioned in the title text, see above in the [[#Explanation|Explanation]].
 *{{w|Sonja Graf}} – "Rating particularly uncertain". This is written above her name, with an arrow pointing there. As a matter of fact, she was clearly the second best woman and her path should be parallel to Menchik's from 1930's. The path is already dashed indicating that it is a rough estimate, but there was probably very little data for woman chess players before 1960 explaining the note.
 *{{w|Kira Zvorykina}} – "Kira Zvorykina (born 1919) continued playing in tournaments into the 21st century". Zvorykina was never very high on the list, but can be seen twice centered on 1960 and 1980. She played her [http://ratings.fide.com/individual_calculations.phtml?idnumber=13500392&rating_period=2008-01-01&t=0 last game] rated by the {{w|World Chess Federation}} in October 2007 aged 88. She was still alive when this comic was released. Zvoryinka passed away in September 2014.

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 ==Trivia==
-*In the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/4/45/20140710201235!dominant_players.png original cersion of the comic], Randall said Kira Zvorykina "Continued playing in tournaments into the 20th century". The 20th century is the 1900s in which Zvorkina was born, on September 29th, 1919. Randall has corrected the notation to say "into the 21st century".
+*In the [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/archive/4/45/20140710201235!dominant_players.png original version of the comic], Randall said Kira Zvorykina "Continued playing in tournaments into the 20th century". The 20th century is the 1900s in which Zvorkina was born, on September 29th, 1919. Randall has corrected the notation to say "into the 21st century".
 *The names of three NBA players have been misspelled: {{w|Neil Johnston}} (misspelled as "Neal"), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (missing hyphen), and {{w|Julius Erving}} (misspelled "Irving".)
 *The order of the names of an Indian chess playing woman has been given in the native version in the comic, where the western version would use the reverse as here: {{w|Humpy Koneru}}.

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 ===Chess vs chess (women)===
-Why is chess divided in an overall (with only one woman included) and basketball not? First of all, there is very little focus on women's basketball (as for most women's sport). This may be the same for chess, but at least here the physical strength advantage for men is no direct advantage. Thus a great woman chess player may play just as interesting chess as a man. Whereas women would typically have no chance if playing on a basketball team with men. But why are women then not represented better on the overall chess ranking? This is explained and may be another reason it is included. In the ''Chess (women)'' panel it says: "For a long time, sexism, a lack of role models, and institutional hostility largely kept women from pursuing serious chess careers. With the expansion of women's tournaments and prizes starting in the 1970s, this has begun to change". So now at least one woman has shown that her skills is enough to compete with the best men. With the long careers chess players usually have, then maternity leave can destroy a woman's chance at reaching the ultimate top. This could be the case for the number one woman who now has two children.
+Why is chess divided with men and women's graphs and basketball not? First of all, there is very little focus on women's basketball (as for most women's sport). This may be the same for chess, but at least here the physical strength advantage for men is no direct advantage. Thus a great woman chess player may play just as interesting chess as a man. Whereas women would typically have no chance if playing on a basketball team with men. But why are women then not represented better on the overall chess ranking? This is explained and may be another reason it is included. In the ''Chess (women)'' panel it says: "For a long time, sexism, a lack of role models, and institutional hostility largely kept women from pursuing serious chess careers. With the expansion of women's tournaments and prizes starting in the 1970s, this has begun to change". So now at least one woman has shown that her skills is enough to compete with the best men. With the long careers chess players usually have, then maternity leave can destroy a woman's chance at reaching the ultimate top. This could be the case for the number one woman who now has two children.
 ===References on the career paths===

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 }}
 {{TOC}}A [http://xkcd.com/1392/large larger version] of this image can be found by clicking the image on [https://xkcd.com xkcd.com].
 ==Explanation==

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