2249: I Love the 20s - Revision history

YZ100 at 17:06, 9 May 2026

2026-05-09T17:06:17Z

YZ100 at 17:03, 9 May 2026

2026-05-09T17:03:56Z

CalibansCreations: /* Explanation */

2025-04-17T11:32:16Z

‎Explanation

LupoCani at 22:48, 24 October 2024

2024-10-24T22:48:06Z

LupoCani: Reword treatment of "21th century"/"2000s" distinction as a property of specific languages.

2024-08-13T17:54:48Z

Reword treatment of "21th century"/"2000s" distinction as a property of specific languages.

LupoCani: Minor wording changes

2024-08-13T17:32:08Z

Minor wording changes

Maplestrip: /* Explanation */ Naming it the 203rd decade (:

2024-07-10T13:37:10Z

‎Explanation: Naming it the 203rd decade (:

172.69.194.21: Undo revision 334809 by [ip, details not vital...] Edit seems based upon "202nd decade begins in 2021" (no, it started in 2011) and that we even use "Nth decade" notation (rarely; only for low Ns!). Still mismatches "the '20s" as a term, in all regards.

2024-02-11T14:46:30Z

Undo revision 334809 by [ip, details not vital...] Edit seems based upon "202nd decade begins in 2021" (no, it started in 2011) and that we even *use* "Nth decade" notation (rarely; only for low Ns!). Still mismatches "the '20s" as a term, in all regards.

172.68.26.183 at 06:02, 11 February 2024

2024-02-11T06:02:28Z

Tromag at 20:41, 10 January 2024

2024-01-10T20:41:19Z

@@ Line 83: / Line 83: @@
 [[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
 [[Category:New Year]]
 [[Category:Pedantic]]

@@ Line 83: / Line 83: @@
 [[Category:Comics featuring Ponytail]]
 [[Category:New Year]]
 [[Category:Pedantic]]

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 White Hat, however, raises a pedantic objection to Ponytail's celebration: he believes that the new decade does not properly start until 2021.
-Ponytail corrects him on this, but he refuses to accept the correction until Megan cites an unlikely source: the fact that the {{w|VH1}} television show {{w|I Love the '90s (American TV series)|''I Love the '90s''}} categorized MC Hammer's 1990 single "{{w|U Can't Touch This}}" as a 90s song, which supports Ponytail's definition of a decade. The joke is that a pop culture documentary is not an authoritative source for definitions of time standards,{{Citation needed}} yet everyone is willing to immediately accept its authority on such matters anyway. Demonstrating the common usage of language is a valid argument, but the degree to which the authority of a single cable channel resolves the argument is unexpected.
+Ponytail corrects him on this, but he refuses to accept the correction until Megan cites an unlikely source: the fact that the {{w|VH1}} television show ''{{w|I Love the '90s (American TV series)|I Love the '90s}}'' categorized MC Hammer's 1990 single "{{w|U Can't Touch This}}" as a 90s song, which supports Ponytail's definition of a decade. The joke is that a pop culture documentary is not an authoritative source for definitions of time standards,{{Citation needed}} yet everyone is willing to immediately accept its authority on such matters anyway. Demonstrating the common usage of language is a valid argument, but the degree to which the authority of a single cable channel resolves the argument is unexpected.
 The disagreement over the definition of when decades start is due to the fact that there is more than one way to count decades. You could do it in one of the following two ways:

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Both definitions are internally consistent, but Ponytail's definition is clearly the more common one. She notes that this is not how decades are typically determined, and the fact that counting centuries in an ordinal way does not require that the same be done for decades.
-White Hat's objection recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000. Like decades, centuries may be counted ordinally ("20th century", "19th century", etc.) or cardinally ("1800s", "1700s", etc.). Unlike decades, the ordinal terms are always used (except informally) for centuries in most languages, including English. Thus, much of the world celebrated the year 2000 as the start of the 21st century and of the second millenium, even though this was incorrect.
+White Hat's objection recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000. Like decades, centuries may be counted ordinally ("20th century", "19th century", etc.) or cardinally ("1700s", "1600s", etc.). Unlike decades, the ordinal terms are always used for centuries in most languages, including English (except informally). Thus, much of the world celebrated the year 2000 as the start of the 21st century and of the third millennium, even though this was incorrect.
 Megan's exclamation "Stop!" is similar to the line famously used by MC Hammer in "U Can't Touch This" ("Stop! Hammer time.").

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 Both definitions are internally consistent, but Ponytail's definition is clearly the more common one. She notes that this is not how decades are typically determined, and the fact that counting centuries in an ordinal way does not require that the same be done for decades.
-White Hat's objection recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000. Because we ''do'' count centuries ordinally (eg. "1st century", "20th century", etc.), and the first century began on the year 1, the 21st century did not technically start until 2001. Much of the world, not understanding this (or not caring), celebrated the dawning of the year 2000 as the start of both a new century and a new millennium, ignoring those who point out the change wouldn't happen for another year. (Though it should be noted unlike decades this is a genuine mistake rather than two slightly different definitions.) The 2020s may partially or fully overlap with the 203rd decade. This is not a term anyone uses.
+White Hat's objection recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000. Like decades, centuries may be counted ordinally ("20th century", "19th century", etc.) or cardinally ("1800s", "1700s", etc.). Unlike decades, the ordinal terms are always used (except informally) for centuries in most languages, including English. Thus, much of the world celebrated the year 2000 as the start of the 21st century and of the second millenium, even though this was incorrect.
 Megan's exclamation "Stop!" is similar to the line famously used by MC Hammer in "U Can't Touch This" ("Stop! Hammer time.").

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 In this same era, there was an increased emphasis on generational cohorts, which Ponytail seems to see as a replacement for dividing time into decades. {{w|Millennials}} is a name given to the generation which was born in the 1980s through the mid 1990s. The term is sometimes used pejoratively by older generations who view millennials as immature or complacent, and this was particularly common in the 2010s. It's possible that this focus on the generation was really a substitute for a focus on youth culture of that era. This is particularly notable since, as time moves on, Millenials continue to age, but the older generation still views them as the current youth. This phenomenon was previously discussed in [[1849: Decades]].
-White Hat, however, raises a pedantic objection to Ponytail's celebration: he believes that the new decade does not "officially" start until 2021.
+White Hat, however, raises a pedantic objection to Ponytail's celebration: he believes that the new decade does not properly start until 2021.
 Ponytail corrects him on this, but he refuses to accept the correction until Megan cites an unlikely source: the fact that the {{w|VH1}} television show {{w|I Love the '90s (American TV series)|''I Love the '90s''}} categorized MC Hammer's 1990 single "{{w|U Can't Touch This}}" as a 90s song, which supports Ponytail's definition of a decade. The joke is that a pop culture documentary is not an authoritative source for definitions of time standards,{{Citation needed}} yet everyone is willing to immediately accept its authority on such matters anyway. Demonstrating the common usage of language is a valid argument, but the degree to which the authority of a single cable channel resolves the argument is unexpected.
@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 White Hat's definition is an "ordinal" method since it functions by counting the number of ten-year spans ''since the first one'', which is defined to have begun in the year 1. However, Ponytail's definition is the "cardinal" method, which simply groups years by their common most significant digits. For example, when we say "the 1980s", we mean "the span of ten years that all began with the digits 1-9-8".
-Neither definition is technically wrong, but Ponytail's definition is clearly the more common one. She notes that this is not how decades are typically determined, and the fact that we count centuries in an ordinal way does not require that we do the same with decades.
+Both definitions are internally consistent, but Ponytail's definition is clearly the more common one. She notes that this is not how decades are typically determined, and the fact that counting centuries in an ordinal way does not require that the same be done for decades.
-White Hat's objection (probably deliberately) recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000.  Because we ''do'' count centuries ordinally (eg. "1st century", "20th century", etc.), and the first century began on the year 1, the 21st century did not technically start until 2001. Much of the world, not understanding this (or not caring), celebrated the dawning of the year 2000 as the start of both a new century and a new millennium, ignoring those who point out the change wouldn't happen for another year. (Though it should be noted unlike decades this is a genuine mistake rather than two slightly different definitions.) The 2020s may partially or fully overlap with the 203rd decade. This is not a term anyone uses.
+White Hat's objection recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000. Because we ''do'' count centuries ordinally (eg. "1st century", "20th century", etc.), and the first century began on the year 1, the 21st century did not technically start until 2001. Much of the world, not understanding this (or not caring), celebrated the dawning of the year 2000 as the start of both a new century and a new millennium, ignoring those who point out the change wouldn't happen for another year. (Though it should be noted unlike decades this is a genuine mistake rather than two slightly different definitions.) The 2020s may partially or fully overlap with the 203rd decade. This is not a term anyone uses.
 Megan's exclamation "Stop!" is similar to the line famously used by MC Hammer in "U Can't Touch This" ("Stop! Hammer time.").

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 Prior to 2000, and particularly in the latter half of the 20th century, eras were often defined by decades, such as discussing the social movements of the 60s, or the music of the 80s. Beginning in 2000, this trend was noticeably reduced, most likely because the first two decades of a century didn't fit into the same naming convention, making it clunkier to discuss. "{{w|Aughts}}" and "Teens" were names suggested for the {{w|2000s_(decade)|2000s}} and {{w|2010s}} respectively; however, neither of those names managed to gain widespread acceptance.
 In this same era, there was an increased emphasis on generational cohorts, which Ponytail seems to see as a replacement for dividing time into decades. {{w|Millennials}} is a name given to the generation which was born in the 1980s through the mid 1990s. The term is sometimes used pejoratively by older generations who view millennials as immature or complacent, and this was particularly common in the 2010s. It's possible that this focus on the generation was really a substitute for a focus on youth culture of that era. This is particularly notable since, as time moves on, Millenials continue to age, but the older generation still views them as the current youth. This phenomenon was previously discussed in [[1849: Decades]].
 White Hat, however, raises a pedantic objection to Ponytail's celebration: he believes that the new decade does not "officially" start until 2021.
-Ponytail corrects him on this, but he refuses to accept the correction until Megan cites an unlikely source: the fact that the {{w|VH1}} television show {{w|I Love the '90s (American TV series)|''I Love the '90s''}} showcased songs released in 1990.
+Ponytail corrects him on this, but he refuses to accept the correction until Megan cites an unlikely source: the fact that the {{w|VH1}} television show {{w|I Love the '90s (American TV series)|''I Love the '90s''}} categorized MC Hammer's 1990 single "{{w|U Can't Touch This}}" as a 90s song, which supports Ponytail's definition of a decade. The joke is that a pop culture documentary is not an authoritative source for definitions of time standards,{{Citation needed}} yet everyone is willing to immediately accept its authority on such matters anyway. Demonstrating the common usage of language is a valid argument, but the degree to which the authority of a single cable channel resolves the argument is unexpected.
-The disagreement over the definition of when decades start is due to the fact that there is more than one way to count decades. White Hat appears to be using ordinal counting, counting the number of decades since the first one. Since the Gregorian calendar doesn't include a year 0, the first decade began in the year 1, so the 202nd decade begins in 2021. Ponytail appears to use cardinal counting, taking the digit common to all years in a ten-year span.
+The disagreement over the definition of when decades start is due to the fact that there is more than one way to count decades. You could do it in one of the following two ways:
-White Hat's objection (probably deliberately) recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000.  Because we ''do'' typically count centuries ordinally, the first century began on year 1, and the 21st century technically started in 2001. Much of the world, not understanding this (or not caring), celebrated the dawning of the year 2000 as the start of both a new century and a new millennium, ignoring those who point out the change wouldn't happen for another year.
+White Hat's definition is an "ordinal" method since it functions by counting the number of ten-year spans ''since the first one'', which is defined to have begun in the year 1. However, Ponytail's definition is the "cardinal" method, which simply groups years by their common most significant digits. For example, when we say "the 1980s", we mean "the span of ten years that all began with the digits 1-9-8".
-Neither definition is technically wrong, but Ponytail's definition is by far the more common one. She notes that decades are named, and typically defined, by their first digit, and the fact that we count centuries in an ordinal way does not require that we do the same with decades.
+Neither definition is technically wrong, but Ponytail's definition is clearly the more common one. She notes that this is not how decades are typically determined, and the fact that we count centuries in an ordinal way does not require that we do the same with decades.
-Megan's argument may sound strange, as it invokes a moderately known show that aired on a middling cable channel 15 years prior. But establishing "proper" definitions by common usage is a normal and essential part of linguistics. Arguing that VH1's usage demonstrates how the use of decades is commonly understood is entirely valid. This single example isn't definitive (White Hat immediately "accept[ing] VH1's authority" without further argument is a comic exaggeration), but it does support Ponytail's case.
+White Hat's objection (probably deliberately) recalls an issue that was frequently discussed around the year 2000.  Because we ''do'' count centuries ordinally (eg. "1st century", "20th century", etc.), and the first century began on the year 1, the 21st century did not technically start until 2001. Much of the world, not understanding this (or not caring), celebrated the dawning of the year 2000 as the start of both a new century and a new millennium, ignoring those who point out the change wouldn't happen for another year. (Though it should be noted unlike decades this is a genuine mistake rather than two slightly different definitions.)
-Continuing the "proof" offered by Megan, the title text goes on to use the {{w|Billboard (magazine)|Billboard}} [https://www.billboard.com/charts/greatest-billboards-top-songs-80s Best of the 80s] chart as proof that the 1980s started in 1980, as their chart includes {{w|Blondie (band)|Blondie's}} "{{w|Call Me (Blondie song)|Call Me}}", which was released in 1980. The title text ends with {{w|Q.E.D.|QED}} ("quod erat demonstrandum"), which means "which was [necessary] to be shown", and is traditionally used at the end of a mathematical proof, implicitly equating such pop culture references to unassailable logical evidence. Once again, this is clearly exaggeration, but the fact that multiple media outlets use the same definition as Ponytail, with no counter-examples, strongly supports her definition as being the commonly accepted one.
+Megan's exclamation "Stop!" is similar to the line famously used by MC Hammer in "U Can't Touch This" ("Stop! Hammer time.").
-Megan's exclamation "Stop!" is similar to the line famously used by MC Hammer in "U Can't Touch This" ("Stop! Hammer time.").
+Continuing the dubious "proof" offered by Megan, the title text goes on to use the {{w|Billboard (magazine)|Billboard}} [https://www.billboard.com/charts/greatest-billboards-top-songs-80s Best of the 80s] chart as proof that the 1980s started in 1980, as their chart includes {{w|Blondie (band)|Blondie's}} "{{w|Call Me (Blondie song)|Call Me}}", which was released in 1980. The title text ends with {{w|Q.E.D.|QED}} ("quod erat demonstrandum"), which means "which was [necessary] to be shown", and is traditionally used at the end of a mathematical proof, implicitly equating such pop culture references to unassailable logical evidence.
 ==Transcript==