2832: Urban Planning Opinion Progression - Revision history

SacrifycedStoat: Actual citation needed for Churchill quote

2026-04-18T16:16:30Z

Actual citation needed for Churchill quote

GreatWyrmGold: /* Explanation */ Removed a clause which seemed to be implying that it thought the comic was making a strawman argument, but didn't back that up and also implied that "strawman" means "the conventional view". Just a terrible addition however you look @ it

2025-12-02T17:12:47Z

‎Explanation: Removed a clause which seemed to be implying that it thought the comic was making a strawman argument, but didn't back that up and also implied that "strawman" means "the conventional view". Just a terrible addition however you look @ it

82.132.239.155: Undo revision 384161 by Mushrooms (talk) No, disagree. There are frames where discussions are within them, and indicates a conversation (mostly!) ongoing between them.

2025-08-14T15:59:42Z

Undo revision 384161 by Mushrooms (talk) No, disagree. There are frames where discussions are within them, and indicates a conversation (mostly!) ongoing between them.

Mushrooms: i don't know what the hell this page was talking about sometimes. this isn't some discussion between the characters it's presenting a series of opinions

2025-08-14T10:32:05Z

i don't know what the hell this page was talking about sometimes. this isn't some discussion between the characters it's presenting a series of opinions

172.71.211.13 at 03:34, 25 March 2025

2025-03-25T03:34:50Z

Xurkitree10: /* Transcript */

2024-10-07T09:54:11Z

‎Transcript

Asdf: /* Transcript */ label

2024-09-29T11:09:39Z

‎Transcript: label

Asdf: /* Transcript */ panel descriptions

2024-09-29T08:26:20Z

‎Transcript: panel descriptions

Tromag at 18:48, 23 July 2024

2024-07-23T18:48:03Z

Xurkitree10: /* Explanation */

2023-11-07T07:10:58Z

‎Explanation

@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 In the '''eighth panel''', Knit Cap's relevant personal observations gets ignored and interrupted by the armchair theorists – a subtle nod to how US policy debates often ignore successful examples from other developed countries.
-* As Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”
+* As Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.” {{actual citation needed}}
 In '''panels nine, ten, and eleven''', everyone's emotions peak with views that reach their zenith. Car culture is systemic! Driver-centric road planning is a vicious cycle! NETHERLANDS!

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 # Satirize the irony of US policy discussions that elevate theory and feeling over actual best practices used in other countries.
-The '''first two panels''' present the conventional view, known as a strawman argument.
+The '''first two panels''' present the conventional view.
 * First, Cueball and Megan complain about the common problem many car-centric cities face about not having enough space for all the cars, and they give a conventional suggestion of making more space for cars.

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 * Next, Knit Cap mentions how she is going to visit {{w|Amsterdam}}, a city known for its {{w|walkability}} and bike friendliness, which gives Ponytail a chance to share the conventional concern that road cycling is bothersome to drivers.
 In the '''third and fourth panels''', Cueball and Megan begin to evolve their thinking, wishing for better transit and more bike paths – another shortage common in car-centric cities – with Megan noticing that optimizing for drivers discourages pedestrians, which in turn spurs more driving – later calling it "a vicious cycle."
@@ Line 34: / Line 36: @@
 * "Those giant trucks" likely refers to large pickup trucks, though she might be singling out lifted pickup trucks (raised after purchase), large tractor trailer cabs, or garbage/construction-style trucks.
-In the '''eighth panel''', Knit Cap describes the beneficial way in which the streets in the Netherlands are planned, and considers how this could be applied to the US.
+In the '''eighth panel''', Knit Cap's relevant personal observations gets ignored and interrupted by the armchair theorists – a subtle nod to how US policy debates often ignore successful examples from other developed countries.
 In '''panels nine, ten, and eleven''', everyone's emotions peak with views that reach their zenith. Car culture is systemic! Driver-centric road planning is a vicious cycle! NETHERLANDS!
 By the '''final two panels''', Cueball's and Megan's evolution is complete. Desperate for any fix, Cueball concludes that city livability calls for making the driving experience worse, and then he suggests tire spikes as a solution. The final joke is that Megan actually supports the tire spikes idea, and that this extreme idea emerges from logical reasoning.
 * A reader who has been nodding along the whole time may reflect if they agree with Megan's final idea — and if not, why not? The whole comic is a type of logical argument in which many small steps of reasoning can lead to eventually extreme and satirical conclusions, similar to the famous {{w|A Modest Proposal}} by Jonathan Swift. It seems that Randall is sharing the evolution of his own views, while self-awarely noting that (1) if you take those views as far as they'll go, you can support some radical implications, and that (2) it's common for Americans to ignore success stories like Amsterdam's.

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 * Next, Knit Cap mentions how she is going to visit {{w|Amsterdam}}, a city known for its {{w|walkability}} and bike friendliness, which gives Ponytail a chance to share the conventional concern that road cycling is bothersome to drivers.
 In the '''third and fourth panels''', Cueball and Megan begin to evolve their thinking, wishing for better transit and more bike paths – another shortage common in car-centric cities – with Megan noticing that optimizing for drivers discourages pedestrians, which in turn spurs more driving – later calling it "a vicious cycle."
@@ Line 36: / Line 34: @@
 * "Those giant trucks" likely refers to large pickup trucks, though she might be singling out lifted pickup trucks (raised after purchase), large tractor trailer cabs, or garbage/construction-style trucks.
-In the '''eighth panel''', Knit Cap's relevant personal observations gets ignored and interrupted by the armchair theorists – a subtle nod to how US policy debates often ignore successful examples from other developed countries.
+In the '''eighth panel''', Knit Cap describes the beneficial way in which the streets in the Netherlands are planned, and considers how this could be applied to the US.
 In '''panels nine, ten, and eleven''', everyone's emotions peak with views that reach their zenith. Car culture is systemic! Driver-centric road planning is a vicious cycle! NETHERLANDS!
 By the '''final two panels''', Cueball's and Megan's evolution is complete. Desperate for any fix, Cueball concludes that city livability calls for making the driving experience worse, and then he suggests tire spikes as a solution. The final joke is that Megan actually supports the tire spikes idea, and that this extreme idea emerges from logical reasoning.
 * A reader who has been nodding along the whole time may reflect if they agree with Megan's final idea — and if not, why not? The whole comic is a type of logical argument in which many small steps of reasoning can lead to eventually extreme and satirical conclusions, similar to the famous {{w|A Modest Proposal}} by Jonathan Swift. It seems that Randall is sharing the evolution of his own views, while self-awarely noting that (1) if you take those views as far as they'll go, you can support some radical implications, and that (2) it's common for Americans to ignore success stories like Amsterdam's.

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 | image     = urban_planning_opinion_progression_2x.png
 | imagesize = 675x2033px
 | noexpand  = true
 | titletext = If they're going to make people ride bikes and scooters in traffic, then it should at LEAST be legal to do the Snow Crash thing where you use a hook-shot-style harpoon to catch free rides from cars.

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:54, 7 October 2024
Line 61:		Line 61:

	==Transcript==		==Transcript==
−	~~{{incomplete transcript\|Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}~~
−
	:'''Typical urban planning opinion progression'''		:'''Typical urban planning opinion progression'''

@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 :'''Typical urban planning opinion progression'''
-:[Each panel is connected to a point on a timeline. Timeline is recognizable as the tread of a bicycle tire]
+:[Each panel is connected to a point on a timeline. Timeline is recognizable as the tread of a bicycle tire. Label at the top of the timeline:]
 :[Cueball is talking to Megan.]

@@ Line 67: / Line 67: @@
 :[Each panel is connected to a point on a timeline. Timeline is recognizable as the tread of a bicycle tire]
 :Cueball: I wish there wasn't so much traffic to get into the city. They should put in more lanes.
 :Megan: And more parking.
 :Megan: Parking is so bad here.
 :Knit Cap: I have to go to Amsterdam for work next week. I hear they all ride bikes there.
 :Ponytail: Bikes are fine but people shouldn't ride them in the street! I worry I'm going to hit someone!
 :Cueball: It would be nice if we had better transit options!
 :Cueball: I tried a scooter. It was fun but I wish there were more bike paths.
 :Megan: It's funny how widening roads to speed up traffic makes them more dangerous to walk near, making driving more necessary and creating more traffic.
 :Megan: Really makes you think.
 :Knit Cap: Visiting the Netherlands was cool!
 :Knit Cap: Amsterdam is really neat.
 :Cueball: We've ceded so much of our land to storing and moving cars, with the rest of us tiptoeing around the edges and making drivers mad for trespassing on "their" space.
 :Cueball: Even though '''''we're''''' the ones in danger from '''''them!'''''
 :Megan: Those giant trucks with front blind spots that keep hitting kids should be illegal.
 :Knit Cap: We should be more like the Netherlands.
 :Knit Cap: They design their streets to prioritize...
-:[Cueball is frustrated.]
+:[Cueball is frustrated and has his palms raised.]
 :Cueball: The problem is car culture. It's systemic.
 :Cueball: I don't know if we can fix it.
@@ Line 99: / Line 107: @@
 :Megan: It's a vicious cycle.
-:[Knit Cap is walking around with two Dutch flags raised in her hands.]
+:[Knit Cap is walking around with two Dutch flags (in grayscale) raised in her hands.]
 :Knit Cap: '''''Netherlands! Netherlands! Netherlands! Netherlands!'''''
 :Cueball: Anything that makes a city a worse place to drive in makes it a better place to live, short of scattering random tire spikes on the road.
 :Megan: Honestly, I think the city council should consider the tire spikes thing.

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 * A reader who has been nodding along the whole time may reflect if they agree with Megan's final idea — and if not, why not? The whole comic is a type of logical argument in which many small steps of reasoning can lead to eventually extreme and satirical conclusions, similar to the famous {{w|A Modest Proposal}} by Jonathan Swift. It seems that Randall is sharing the evolution of his own views, while self-awarely noting that (1) if you take those views as far as they'll go, you can support some radical implications, and that (2) it's common for Americans to ignore success stories like Amsterdam's.
-The '''title text''' references a cyberpunk book called "{{w|Snow Crash}}", by Neal Stephenson. An early scene in that book involves the equivalent of a skater using a magnet on a cable to attach onto the back of a pizza delivery vehicle. He swerves in order to dislodge her, she taunts him and attaches stickers to his vehicle.
+The '''title text''' references a 1992 cyberpunk novel called "{{w|Snow Crash}}", by Neal Stephenson. In the future of the novel, the roads are still dominated by motor vehicles, but a subculture of skateboarders exists which uses electromagnetic "harpoons" to attach themselves temporarily to cars. This allows the skateboarders to travel more quickly, by stealing a small amount of momentum from the vehicles. The suggestion here seems to be that such a system (despite being dangerous and chaotic) advantages other forms of transport, at the expense of cars, and is therefore at least somewhat beneficial.
 ===What are the pros and cons of bike lanes?===

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:10, 7 November 2023
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	==Explanation==		==Explanation==
−	~~{{incomplete\|Created by a DUTCH BOT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}~~
−
	This comic follows [[Cueball]], [[Megan]], [[Knit Cap]] and [[Ponytail]] as their beliefs evolve widely from a conventional car-first view of urban planning, then questioning the wisdom of car-centered policies, then favoring pedestrian-centered design, and finally wanting to discourage driving with tactics as extreme as road spikes.		This comic follows [[Cueball]], [[Megan]], [[Knit Cap]] and [[Ponytail]] as their beliefs evolve widely from a conventional car-first view of urban planning, then questioning the wisdom of car-centered policies, then favoring pedestrian-centered design, and finally wanting to discourage driving with tactics as extreme as road spikes.