2909: Moon Landing Mission Profiles - Revision history

42.book.addict: added Category:Rockets using HotCat

2024-11-01T17:40:03Z

added Category:Rockets using HotCat

Xurkitree10: /* Transcript */

2024-10-11T08:50:42Z

‎Transcript

172.70.126.187: /* Explanation */

2024-04-14T11:32:22Z

‎Explanation

172.71.178.191: Undo revision 338851 by Claire Kholin (talk) Not a useful link (Roche Limit linked explicitly, later, maybe a link to "moving the Moon" works there?). Artemis plans may yet change.

2024-04-04T16:39:52Z

Undo revision 338851 by Claire Kholin (talk) Not a useful link (Roche Limit linked explicitly, later, maybe a link to "moving the Moon" works there?). Artemis plans *may* yet change.

Claire Kholin: added link and edited atremis description

2024-04-04T15:47:44Z

added link and edited atremis description

172.68.243.22 at 17:32, 3 April 2024

2024-04-03T17:32:00Z

B for brain: /* Explanation */

2024-03-26T19:03:35Z

‎Explanation

Laser813: Brevity is the soul of wit

2024-03-25T16:46:27Z

Brevity is the soul of wit

Apollo11: For the love-Stop with the "Citation needed" its not obvious, most people dont know its hard! Its not like saying squirrels are smaller than elephants" this is somthing only a science lover (like myself) would know. also you dont have to milk the joke dry

2024-03-25T15:59:45Z

For the love-Stop with the "Citation needed" its not obvious, most people dont know its hard! Its not like saying squirrels are smaller than elephants" this is somthing only a science lover (like myself) would know. also you dont have to milk the joke dry

Asdf: /* Explanation */

2024-03-24T09:44:35Z

‎Explanation

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:40, 1 November 2024
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	[[Category:Space]]		[[Category:Space]]
		+	[[Category:Rockets]]

@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 ==Transcript==
 :[Top left panel]
 :'''Lunar orbit rendezvous'''

@@ Line 50: / Line 50: @@
 Status: Rejected because, humorously, "I guess no one thought of it?!"
-Explanation: This is a fictional and impractical scenario. The Moon cannot propel itself and cannot alter its orbit to rendezvous with a spacecraft.{{Citation needed}} The Moon would also break up because {{w|low Earth orbit}} is within the {{w|Roche limit}}. Astronauts would theoretically land on the Moon, but the hypothetical fragments of the Moon would make the landing impractical. This would be also bad for the Earth's climate, tides, stock markets and ecosystems.
+Explanation: This is a fictional and impractical scenario. The Moon cannot propel itself and cannot alter its orbit to rendezvous with a spacecraft.{{Citation needed}} The Moon would also break up because {{w|low Earth orbit}} is within the {{w|Roche limit}}. Astronauts would theoretically land on the Moon, but the hypothetical fragments of the Moon would make the landing impractical. This would be also bad for the Earth's climate, tides, stock markets and ecosystems.{{Citation needed}}
 The 'return leg' could involve having the Moon move back to where it should be, which does not add ''too'' many extra mysteries to the mission profile, unless those who implement it would prefer not to have to bring it back again for the next expedition.

@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 In reality, this was the approach imagined for the Nova C-8 rocket as an Apollo alternative. This was also the approach used in {{w|Destination Moon (comics)|Destination Moon}} from {{w|The Adventures of Tintin}}, with the fuel problem addressed by using a nuclear reactor for much of the trip—which would be a really bad idea in reality since "rockets have a tendency to explode"[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvR1fRTW8g]. Science fiction movies have frequently depicted this method of landing, either before the dawn of the actual Apollo program or (to save plot-time ''or'' by using a fictional increase in rocket capability) in more futuristic settings.
-'''[[wikipedia:Roche limit|Lunar Earth Rendezvous]] (LER)'''
+'''Lunar Earth Rendezvous (LER)'''
 Description: The Moon transits to rendezvous with a spacecraft in low Earth orbit.
@@ Line 59: / Line 59: @@
 The Apollo Program considered a number of possible mission profiles. Of the {{w|Apollo program#Choosing a mission mode|four shortlist plans}}, the Lunar Surface Rendezvous plan was not shown or mentioned in this comic, but clearly inspired the title of the method created in its place.
-With the ongoing work to achieve the {{w|Artemis program}}, the successor to Apollo, this comic is probably also making sideways references to the plans and equipment being developed to achieve it, which currently features several aspects of the above examples. A single crewed-launch is intending to rendezvous with, and make use of, additional equipment separately launched (including one that is very nearly one big rocket in its own right). Instead of assembling in Earth orbit, it will make use of a [https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/lunar-near-rectilinear-halo-orbit-gateway lunar near-rectilinear halo orbit], or NRHO, to and from which the landing system will operate. There is also planning, still in an early stage, to establish lunar-surface infrastructure that would simplify the refuelling of the transfer craft and support surface operations.
+With the ongoing work to achieve the {{w|Artemis program}}, the successor to Apollo, this comic is probably also making sideways references to the plans and equipment being developed to achieve it, which currently features several aspects of the above examples. A single crewed-launch is intending to rendezvous with, and make use of, additional equipment separately launched (including one that is very nearly one big rocket in its own right). Instead of assembling in Earth orbit, it will probably make use of a [https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/lunar-near-rectilinear-halo-orbit-gateway lunar near-rectilinear halo orbit], or NRHO, to and from which the landing system will operate. There is also planning, still in an early stage, to establish lunar-surface infrastructure that would simplify the refuelling of the transfer craft and support surface operations.
 The only depicted plan that should not play a part in upcoming missions is the one which may be more connected with some other quite different scenario which [[2561: Moonfall|has previously been referenced]] in xkcd.

@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 In reality, this was the approach imagined for the Nova C-8 rocket as an Apollo alternative. This was also the approach used in {{w|Destination Moon (comics)|Destination Moon}} from {{w|The Adventures of Tintin}}, with the fuel problem addressed by using a nuclear reactor for much of the trip—which would be a really bad idea in reality since "rockets have a tendency to explode"[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvR1fRTW8g]. Science fiction movies have frequently depicted this method of landing, either before the dawn of the actual Apollo program or (to save plot-time ''or'' by using a fictional increase in rocket capability) in more futuristic settings.
-'''Lunar Earth Rendezvous (LER)'''
+'''[[wikipedia:Roche limit|Lunar Earth Rendezvous]] (LER)'''
 Description: The Moon transits to rendezvous with a spacecraft in low Earth orbit.
@@ Line 59: / Line 59: @@
 The Apollo Program considered a number of possible mission profiles. Of the {{w|Apollo program#Choosing a mission mode|four shortlist plans}}, the Lunar Surface Rendezvous plan was not shown or mentioned in this comic, but clearly inspired the title of the method created in its place.
-With the ongoing work to achieve the {{w|Artemis program}}, the successor to Apollo, this comic is probably also making sideways references to the plans and equipment being developed to achieve it, which currently features several aspects of the above examples. A single crewed-launch is intending to rendezvous with, and make use of, additional equipment separately launched (including one that is very nearly one big rocket in its own right). Instead of assembling in Earth orbit, it will probably make use of a [https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/lunar-near-rectilinear-halo-orbit-gateway lunar near-rectilinear halo orbit], or NRHO, to and from which the landing system will operate. There is also planning, still in an early stage, to establish lunar-surface infrastructure that would simplify the refuelling of the transfer craft and support surface operations.
+With the ongoing work to achieve the {{w|Artemis program}}, the successor to Apollo, this comic is probably also making sideways references to the plans and equipment being developed to achieve it, which currently features several aspects of the above examples. A single crewed-launch is intending to rendezvous with, and make use of, additional equipment separately launched (including one that is very nearly one big rocket in its own right). Instead of assembling in Earth orbit, it will make use of a [https://www.nasa.gov/missions/artemis/lunar-near-rectilinear-halo-orbit-gateway lunar near-rectilinear halo orbit], or NRHO, to and from which the landing system will operate. There is also planning, still in an early stage, to establish lunar-surface infrastructure that would simplify the refuelling of the transfer craft and support surface operations.
 The only depicted plan that should not play a part in upcoming missions is the one which may be more connected with some other quite different scenario which [[2561: Moonfall|has previously been referenced]] in xkcd.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:03, 26 March 2024
Line 10:		Line 10:

	==Explanation==		==Explanation==
−	~~{{incomplete\|Created by A MOON THAT LOOKS ESPECIALLY LARGE TONIGHT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}~~
−
	Getting astronauts to the Moon (and back) is hard. There are several different strategies to do it. This comic reviews three mission profiles considered for the Apollo Moon landings and one which is absurd. (While the profiles only depict the outbound leg of the trip, in each case the return journey would likely make compatible rocket and trajectory choices.)		Getting astronauts to the Moon (and back) is hard. There are several different strategies to do it. This comic reviews three mission profiles considered for the Apollo Moon landings and one which is absurd. (While the profiles only depict the outbound leg of the trip, in each case the return journey would likely make compatible rocket and trajectory choices.)

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 {{incomplete|Created by A MOON THAT LOOKS ESPECIALLY LARGE TONIGHT - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon.}}
-Getting astronauts to the Moon (and back) is not only difficult, but almost impossible without countless hours of math, tests, double checking, and more math. There are several different strategies to do it. This comic reviews three mission profiles considered for the Apollo Moon landings and one which is absurd. (While the profiles only depict the outbound leg of the trip, in each case the return journey would likely make compatible rocket and trajectory choices.)
+Getting astronauts to the Moon (and back) is hard. There are several different strategies to do it. This comic reviews three mission profiles considered for the Apollo Moon landings and one which is absurd. (While the profiles only depict the outbound leg of the trip, in each case the return journey would likely make compatible rocket and trajectory choices.)
 '''{{w|Lunar Orbit Rendezvous}} (LOR)'''

@@ Line 56: / Line 56: @@
 The 'return leg' could involve having the Moon move back to where it should be, which does not add ''too'' many extra mysteries to the mission profile, unless those who implement it would prefer not to have to bring it back again for the next expedition.
-The title text imagines the Moon coming to ''very'' low Earth orbit, low enough to reach with a step ladder. There are many reasons this is wholly impractical, as well as civilization-ending. Dropping the Moon down to within six feet or so of the Earth would likely cover the Earth in moonrock. The only difference from [[2908: Moon Armor Index|the prior comic]] is that debris would ultimately be deposited at a significantly high sideways velocity (perhaps briefly preceded by a hypersonic atmospheric shockwave and everything you might expect from catastrophic worldwide ground-tremors), no matter where you were. If this mission profile had been used in the 1960s, the Soviet Union, US, and all ''other'' nations (whether they like it or not) would have 'won' the space race almost simultanously as the rapid redustribution of rock tried to settle over ''everywhere'' to create (on average) a 43&nbsp;km-deep grave. Arguably the true 'winner' could be determined by which country gets hit by the initial Moon rocks first.
+The title text imagines the Moon coming to ''very'' low Earth orbit, low enough to reach with a step ladder. There are many reasons this is wholly impractical, as well as civilization-ending. Dropping the Moon down to within six feet or so of the Earth would likely cover the Earth in moonrock. The only difference from [[2908: Moon Armor Index|the prior comic]] is that debris would ultimately be deposited at a significantly high sideways velocity (perhaps briefly preceded by a hypersonic atmospheric shockwave and everything you might expect from catastrophic worldwide ground-tremors), no matter where you were. If this mission profile had been used in the 1960s, the Soviet Union, the United States, and all ''other'' nations (whether they like it or not) would have 'won' the space race almost simultanously as the rapid redistribution of rock tried to settle over ''everywhere'' to create (on average) a 43&nbsp;km-deep grave. Arguably the true 'winner' could be determined by which country gets hit by the initial Moon rocks first.
 ===Factual Mission Profiles===

2909: Moon Landing Mission Profiles - Revision history

42.book.addict: added Category:Rockets using HotCat

Xurkitree10: /* Transcript */

172.70.126.187: /* Explanation */

172.71.178.191: Undo revision 338851 by Claire Kholin (talk) Not a useful link (Roche Limit linked explicitly, later, maybe a link to "moving the Moon" works there?). Artemis plans *may* yet change.

Claire Kholin: added link and edited atremis description

172.68.243.22 at 17:32, 3 April 2024

B for brain: /* Explanation */

Laser813: Brevity is the soul of wit

Apollo11: For the love-Stop with the "Citation needed" its not obvious, most people dont know its hard! Its not like saying squirrels are smaller than elephants" this is somthing only a science lover (like myself) would know. also you dont have to milk the joke dry

Asdf: /* Explanation */

172.71.178.191: Undo revision 338851 by Claire Kholin (talk) Not a useful link (Roche Limit linked explicitly, later, maybe a link to "moving the Moon" works there?). Artemis plans may yet change.