Talk:1404: Quantum Vacuum Virtual Plasma - Revision history

172.69.54.213 at 19:06, 3 July 2021

2021-07-03T19:06:27Z

PotatoGod at 05:37, 4 June 2018

2018-06-04T05:37:05Z

PotatoGod at 05:34, 4 June 2018

2018-06-04T05:34:55Z

108.162.215.183 at 17:59, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T17:59:58Z

162.158.252.197: Idiots don't know how organizations take actions.

2015-12-16T22:59:39Z

Idiots don't know how organizations take actions.

199.27.128.118: Minor revision

2014-08-10T17:03:11Z

Minor revision

199.27.128.118 at 16:57, 10 August 2014

2014-08-10T16:57:09Z

Dgbrt at 20:29, 9 August 2014

2014-08-09T20:29:38Z

199.27.128.99: copyedit of quotes to blockquotes

2014-08-08T20:33:23Z

copyedit of quotes to blockquotes

199.27.128.99: Revision weirdness -> I think the last two edits advocate different points of view than Randall Munroe

2014-08-08T20:20:06Z

Revision weirdness -> I think the last two edits advocate different points of view than Randall Munroe

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:06, 3 July 2021
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	Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183\|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183\|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
	:It ''might'' have - it contained a lot of things [[User:PotatoGod\|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod\|talk]]) 05:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)		:It ''might'' have - it contained a lot of things [[User:PotatoGod\|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod\|talk]]) 05:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
		+	:: It contained a bobcat. Would not buy again. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.54.213\|172.69.54.213]] 19:06, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 (for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
 Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
-:It might have - it contained a lot of things [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 05:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
+:It ''might'' have - it contained a lot of things [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 05:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:34, 4 June 2018
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	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)		(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
	Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183\|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183\|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+	:It might have - it contained a lot of things [[User:PotatoGod\|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod\|talk]]) 05:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:59, 12 August 2016
Line 61:		Line 61:

	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)		(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
		+	Did the box contain a hair dryer?--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.183\|108.162.215.183]] 17:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 :*NASA keeps silent on this matter because they know there is no prove.
 :--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 (for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 I don't see any "joke on quantum superposition". Either explain what the jokes are or remove that claim? --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.162|141.101.98.162]] 12:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 : That was a "correction" of "quantum supposition" which made more sense. Chad Orzel makes an ''actual'' joke about quantum superposition: "Most physicists I know have reacted to this with some linear combination of “heavy sigh” and “eye roll.”" Anyway, I have edited away the superposition by rewriting the description of the last panel. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118|199.27.128.118]] 16:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
-:: I don't see any joke about quantum uncertainty, just regular uncertainty and the scientific method in the last panel. The claim of thrust without exhaust or other momentum transfer is a claim of new physics, but the evidence of this claim is weak because the device was not tested in isolation and vacuum and the reported thrust was not in line with the claimed mechanisms. But Megan points out that new physics isn't created but only discovered, so she is just as likely to interact with the newly claimed physics as the Q-drive if enough power is applied. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118|199.27.128.118]] 16:57, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
+:: I don't see any joke about quantum uncertainty, just regular uncertainty and the scientific method in the last panel. The claim of thrust without exhaust or other momentum transfer is a claim of new physics, but the evidence of this claim is weak because the device was not tested in isolation and vacuum and the reported thrust was not in line with the claimed mechanisms. But Megan points out that new physics isn't created but only discovered, so she is just as likely to interact with the newly claimed physics as the Q-drive if enough power is applied. The Uncertainty Principle applies to systems not what model of physics applies so the claims of the Q-drive mechanism can't be in a superposition of true and false. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118|199.27.128.118]] 17:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 10 August 2014
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	I don't see any "joke on quantum superposition". Either explain what the jokes are or remove that claim? --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.162\|141.101.98.162]] 12:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)		I don't see any "joke on quantum superposition". Either explain what the jokes are or remove that claim? --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.162\|141.101.98.162]] 12:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
	: That was a "correction" of "quantum supposition" which made more sense. Chad Orzel makes an ''actual'' joke about quantum superposition: "Most physicists I know have reacted to this with some linear combination of “heavy sigh” and “eye roll.”" Anyway, I have edited away the superposition by rewriting the description of the last panel. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]] 16:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)		: That was a "correction" of "quantum supposition" which made more sense. Chad Orzel makes an ''actual'' joke about quantum superposition: "Most physicists I know have reacted to this with some linear combination of “heavy sigh” and “eye roll.”" Anyway, I have edited away the superposition by rewriting the description of the last panel. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]] 16:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
		+	:: I don't see any joke about quantum uncertainty, just regular uncertainty and the scientific method in the last panel. The claim of thrust without exhaust or other momentum transfer is a claim of new physics, but the evidence of this claim is weak because the device was not tested in isolation and vacuum and the reported thrust was not in line with the claimed mechanisms. But Megan points out that new physics isn't created but only discovered, so she is just as likely to interact with the newly claimed physics as the Q-drive if enough power is applied. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]] 16:57, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:29, 9 August 2014
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	(For [[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]]) Not meaning to start an edit war, but how is [http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/08/jscs-stealthy-s.html NASAWatch] a better source for the breaking news than the earlier and glossier [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive Wired UK]. Also, Johnson Space Center and NASA are under no obligation to comment on the work of the Eagleworks lab under Sonny White. That's just one of the many points that Hambling and NASAWatch get wrong: "NASA" didn't validate anything, a small group of researchers employed by NASA claimed verification in a non-peer-reviewed presentation at a conference. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)		(For [[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]]) Not meaning to start an edit war, but how is [http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/08/jscs-stealthy-s.html NASAWatch] a better source for the breaking news than the earlier and glossier [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive Wired UK]. Also, Johnson Space Center and NASA are under no obligation to comment on the work of the Eagleworks lab under Sonny White. That's just one of the many points that Hambling and NASAWatch get wrong: "NASA" didn't validate anything, a small group of researchers employed by NASA claimed verification in a non-peer-reviewed presentation at a conference. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
		+	:First thanks for not doing an edit war. My reasons were:
		+	:*NASAWatch is still the most serious site to document but also criticise NASA's activities.
		+	:*The "wired.co.uk" article is available at that NASAWatch article. I decided to remove that "wired" link here because it uses a hell of external sites blocked at my browser by default (NoScript on Firefox). The site is not "wired.com", one of my favorite pages is there: [http://www.wired.com/category/beyondapollo/ Beyond Apollo].
		+	:*NASA did NOT release any official statements, only a small external publication did refer to an NASA employer.
		+	:*NASA keeps silent on this matter because they know there is no prove.
		+	:--[[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt\|talk]]) 20:29, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)		(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:33, 8 August 2014
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	(For [[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]]) Not meaning to start an edit war, but how is [http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/08/jscs-stealthy-s.html NASAWatch] a better source for the breaking news than the earlier and glossier [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive Wired UK]. Also, Johnson Space Center and NASA are under no obligation to comment on the work of the Eagleworks lab under Sonny White. That's just one of the many points that Hambling and NASAWatch get wrong: "NASA" didn't validate anything, a small group of researchers employed by NASA claimed verification in a non-peer-reviewed presentation at a conference. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)		(For [[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]]) Not meaning to start an edit war, but how is [http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/08/jscs-stealthy-s.html NASAWatch] a better source for the breaking news than the earlier and glossier [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive Wired UK]. Also, Johnson Space Center and NASA are under no obligation to comment on the work of the Eagleworks lab under Sonny White. That's just one of the many points that Hambling and NASAWatch get wrong: "NASA" didn't validate anything, a small group of researchers employed by NASA claimed verification in a non-peer-reviewed presentation at a conference. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

−	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of "But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists." to "But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma"." isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)	+	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists.</blockquote> to <blockquote>But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma".</blockquote> isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:20, 8 August 2014
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	:And yes, they would have had to be tested in vacuum for a serious test. If you have strong electric fields in air, the air will move (because you'll bleed charge into it, and it'll then be accelerated by the electric field; that's how those tinfoil "lifter" devices work). You'd also have to put it in an RF-absorbing chamber, to avoid resonant interactions with the chamber walls (which can cause your device to be displaced from what you think its neutral position should be; force only costs power while you're moving, so this would look like deflection with no net power applied after the system stabilizes). -[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.221\|108.162.246.221]] 20:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)		:And yes, they would have had to be tested in vacuum for a serious test. If you have strong electric fields in air, the air will move (because you'll bleed charge into it, and it'll then be accelerated by the electric field; that's how those tinfoil "lifter" devices work). You'd also have to put it in an RF-absorbing chamber, to avoid resonant interactions with the chamber walls (which can cause your device to be displaced from what you think its neutral position should be; force only costs power while you're moving, so this would look like deflection with no net power applied after the system stabilizes). -[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.221\|108.162.246.221]] 20:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	; Revision weirdness
		+
		+	(For [[User:Dgbrt\|Dgbrt]]) Not meaning to start an edit war, but how is [http://nasawatch.com/archives/2014/08/jscs-stealthy-s.html NASAWatch] a better source for the breaking news than the earlier and glossier [http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2014-07/31/nasa-validates-impossible-space-drive Wired UK]. Also, Johnson Space Center and NASA are under no obligation to comment on the work of the Eagleworks lab under Sonny White. That's just one of the many points that Hambling and NASAWatch get wrong: "NASA" didn't validate anything, a small group of researchers employed by NASA claimed verification in a non-peer-reviewed presentation at a conference. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	(for [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.118\|199.27.128.118]]) Your edit of "But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' only explainable in terms of new (undefined) physics under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma" is an extraordinary claim on very weak data. This may fall under the category of "[http://www.skepdic.com/toothfairyscience.html Tooth-Fairy (Pseudo-) science]", trying to quantify a phenomenon before one has confirmed it exists." to "But while they hooked it up to a measurement apparatus, applied RF input and measured changes in the apparatus, their interpretation of the experiment conducted in an air-filled stainless-steel chamber as a tiny ''thrust'' explainable under the moniker of "quantum vacuum virtual plasma"." isn't a sentence anymore. There is considerable tension between your justification "citation needed for any comment on the validity of the experiment)" and [[User:Lcarsos\|Lcarsos']] justification of "For the love of all that is good and holy just link to the damn link. No need to go all research paper on us with footnote labyrinths." where Wikipedia-like references were removed. The remaining links to the XKCD comic itself, [https://plus.google.com/117663015413546257905/posts/WfFtJ8bYVya John Baez], and [http://scienceblogs.com/principles/2014/08/04/impossible-thruster-probably-impossible/ Chad Orzel] all support the wording of the original. There's also [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/ Corey S. Powell @ Discover Blogs] and [https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-to-fool-the-world-with-bad-science-7a9318dd1ae6 Ethan Siegel @ Medium] as well as other links in this Talk page. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.128.99\|199.27.128.99]] 20:20, 8 August 2014 (UTC)