Talk:1718: Backups - Revision history

Davidy22 at 21:18, 11 January 2017

2017-01-11T21:18:41Z

108.162.219.232: Add another reasonable way this could be slower than Moore’s Law

2017-01-11T20:06:19Z

Add another reasonable way this could be slower than Moore’s Law

SlashMe: re

2016-08-12T13:17:26Z

108.162.210.196 at 12:35, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T12:35:18Z

Epaminaidos at 09:50, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T09:50:27Z

162.158.83.66 at 09:49, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T09:49:10Z

SlashMe at 09:39, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T09:39:00Z

SlashMe at 09:38, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T09:38:31Z

162.158.83.228 at 07:31, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T07:31:34Z

Epaminaidos at 06:44, 12 August 2016

2016-08-12T06:44:15Z

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 I think this makes more sense if only a small portion of all files from the laptop complete the ENTIRE loop. if the total percentage of files which complete the entire loop is 0.0004% , and he backups once a month, that should give him exponential growth slightly smaller than Moore's Law.  At 18 months, his total file size would be about 168% of the original.   [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.245|172.68.58.245]] 22:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 : "Cueball: Wait. My laptop is backing up some folders to this server..." Because of that I agree with you. It's saying "Some" folders are being backed up. The wording heavily implies it's not everything in the computer being backed up just a part. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.61|141.101.98.61]]
-: Even if all the files do make the round trip they might use good deduplication. If all the files round trip but only the changes and a few kilobytes of metadata per file are duplicated then the growth can be exponential. This is only true if none of the backups are compressed or encrypted, though.
+: Even if all the files do make the round trip they might use good deduplication. If all the files round trip but only the changes and a few kilobytes of metadata per file are duplicated then the growth can be exponential. This is only true if none of the backups are compressed or encrypted, though. {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.232}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:06, 11 January 2017
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	I think this makes more sense if only a small portion of all files from the laptop complete the ENTIRE loop. if the total percentage of files which complete the entire loop is 0.0004% , and he backups once a month, that should give him exponential growth slightly smaller than Moore's Law. At 18 months, his total file size would be about 168% of the original. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.245\|172.68.58.245]] 22:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)		I think this makes more sense if only a small portion of all files from the laptop complete the ENTIRE loop. if the total percentage of files which complete the entire loop is 0.0004% , and he backups once a month, that should give him exponential growth slightly smaller than Moore's Law. At 18 months, his total file size would be about 168% of the original. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.245\|172.68.58.245]] 22:03, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
	: "Cueball: Wait. My laptop is backing up some folders to this server..." Because of that I agree with you. It's saying "Some" folders are being backed up. The wording heavily implies it's not everything in the computer being backed up just a part. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.61\|141.101.98.61]]		: "Cueball: Wait. My laptop is backing up some folders to this server..." Because of that I agree with you. It's saying "Some" folders are being backed up. The wording heavily implies it's not everything in the computer being backed up just a part. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.61\|141.101.98.61]]
		+	: Even if all the files do make the round trip they might use good deduplication. If all the files round trip but only the changes and a few kilobytes of metadata per file are duplicated then the growth can be exponential. This is only true if none of the backups are compressed or encrypted, though.

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:17, 12 August 2016
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	:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
	::: ????? The first two panels say they are creating back-ups. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.196\|108.162.210.196]] 12:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		::: ????? The first two panels say they are creating back-ups. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.196\|108.162.210.196]] 12:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+	::: Actually, there are two backup systems and one sync involved. --[[User:SlashMe\|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe\|talk]]) 13:17, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:35, 12 August 2016
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	: I guess most backup systems keep older backups. First, there's /A.txt. Next, there's /A.txt and /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. Third, there's /A.txt, /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt, /backup/2016-08-13/A.txt and /backup/2016-08-13/backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. --[[User:SlashMe\|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe\|talk]]) 09:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		: I guess most backup systems keep older backups. First, there's /A.txt. Next, there's /A.txt and /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. Third, there's /A.txt, /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt, /backup/2016-08-13/A.txt and /backup/2016-08-13/backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. --[[User:SlashMe\|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe\|talk]]) 09:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
	:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+	::: ????? The first two panels say they are creating back-ups. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.196\|108.162.210.196]] 12:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

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 : The number of files grows exponentially, if not a certain amount of data but a percentage of the data is backed up in each cycle. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.228|162.158.83.228]] 07:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
-:: Can you elaborate this? I don't get it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66|162.158.83.66]] 09:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
+:: Can you elaborate this? I don't get it. [[User:Epaminaidos|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 : I guess most backup systems keep older backups. First, there's /A.txt. Next, there's /A.txt and /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. Third, there's /A.txt, /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt, /backup/2016-08-13/A.txt and /backup/2016-08-13/backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 09:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
-:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66|162.158.83.66]] 09:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
+:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[User:Epaminaidos|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos|talk]]) 09:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:49, 12 August 2016
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	: The number of files grows exponentially, if not a certain amount of data but a percentage of the data is backed up in each cycle. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.228\|162.158.83.228]] 07:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		: The number of files grows exponentially, if not a certain amount of data but a percentage of the data is backed up in each cycle. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.228\|162.158.83.228]] 07:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+	:: Can you elaborate this? I don't get it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66\|162.158.83.66]] 09:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

	: I guess most backup systems keep older backups. First, there's /A.txt. Next, there's /A.txt and /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. Third, there's /A.txt, /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt, /backup/2016-08-13/A.txt and /backup/2016-08-13/backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. --[[User:SlashMe\|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe\|talk]]) 09:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		: I guess most backup systems keep older backups. First, there's /A.txt. Next, there's /A.txt and /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. Third, there's /A.txt, /backup/2016-08-12/A.txt, /backup/2016-08-13/A.txt and /backup/2016-08-13/backup/2016-08-12/A.txt. --[[User:SlashMe\|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe\|talk]]) 09:38, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+	:: Cueball is talking about "syncing folders", not about a backup-system that keeps old versions. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66\|162.158.83.66]] 09:49, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:31, 12 August 2016
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	I think there should be an explanation, why this setup leads to exponential growth. IMO, it is linear or polynomial of degree 2 at most. Let's assume, the notebook does only contain one file: /A.txt. After one backup-cycle there are two files: /A.txt and /backups/A.txt. After the next one, there are three: /A.txt, /backups/A.txt and /backups/backups/A.txt. Thus the amount of files does only grow in a linear way. Only the path-information is growing faster: The amount of additional directories in the file's path is growing with the square of the amount cycles (it's the sum of all integers from 1 to the cycle-count).		I think there should be an explanation, why this setup leads to exponential growth. IMO, it is linear or polynomial of degree 2 at most. Let's assume, the notebook does only contain one file: /A.txt. After one backup-cycle there are two files: /A.txt and /backups/A.txt. After the next one, there are three: /A.txt, /backups/A.txt and /backups/backups/A.txt. Thus the amount of files does only grow in a linear way. Only the path-information is growing faster: The amount of additional directories in the file's path is growing with the square of the amount cycles (it's the sum of all integers from 1 to the cycle-count).
	Can anybody explain the exponential growth? [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 06:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)		Can anybody explain the exponential growth? [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 06:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	The number of files grows exponentially, if not a certain amount of data but a percentage of the data is backed up in each cycle.
		+	[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.228\|162.158.83.228]] 07:31, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:44, 12 August 2016
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	:Tee hee! This is why the first thing I exclude from backup is the log directory, or the whole /var tree (with a few selected exceptions, like /var/spool/cron/crontabs - this is a royally misplaced location, it should go under /etc). The logs that need to be kept are sent to a log server, online, by the logger daemon itself. If there's no log server (small systems) at least send the logs to backup place during log rotation. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.151\|162.158.203.151]] 18:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC)		:Tee hee! This is why the first thing I exclude from backup is the log directory, or the whole /var tree (with a few selected exceptions, like /var/spool/cron/crontabs - this is a royally misplaced location, it should go under /etc). The logs that need to be kept are sent to a log server, online, by the logger daemon itself. If there's no log server (small systems) at least send the logs to backup place during log rotation. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.203.151\|162.158.203.151]] 18:59, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
	:I once managed to backup / to the backup disk at /media/Backup Disk. D'oh. Backupception. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.228\|162.158.150.228]] 12:17, 11 August 2016 (UTC)		:I once managed to backup / to the backup disk at /media/Backup Disk. D'oh. Backupception. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.228\|162.158.150.228]] 12:17, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	I think there should be an explanation, why this setup leads to exponential growth. IMO, it is linear or polynomial of degree 2 at most. Let's assume, the notebook does only contain one file: /A.txt. After one backup-cycle there are two files: /A.txt and /backups/A.txt. After the next one, there are three: /A.txt, /backups/A.txt and /backups/backups/A.txt. Thus the amount of files does only grow in a linear way. Only the path-information is growing faster: The amount of additional directories in the file's path is growing with the square of the amount cycles (it's the sum of all integers from 1 to the cycle-count).
		+	Can anybody explain the exponential growth? [[User:Epaminaidos\|Epaminaidos]] ([[User talk:Epaminaidos\|talk]]) 06:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)