Talk:1785: Wifi - Revision history

Int at 16:16, 24 May 2017

2017-05-24T16:16:04Z

R0hrshach at 17:06, 18 January 2017

2017-01-18T17:06:21Z

162.158.114.70 at 17:14, 16 January 2017

2017-01-16T17:14:22Z

Davidy22: sigh

2017-01-15T08:33:39Z

sigh

141.101.96.88 at 01:40, 15 January 2017

2017-01-15T01:40:31Z

141.101.96.88 at 01:33, 15 January 2017

2017-01-15T01:33:58Z

198.41.238.16: A different view.

2017-01-14T03:05:23Z

A different view.

Trlkly at 21:40, 13 January 2017

2017-01-13T21:40:50Z

141.101.99.17 at 18:19, 13 January 2017

2017-01-13T18:19:18Z

162.158.214.52 at 17:28, 13 January 2017

2017-01-13T17:28:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 24 May 2017
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	It has been decades since I met people complaining about firmware. The more common uttering when people can't connect to WiFi at tech meetups involves the words: Goddamn, proprietary, Apple and crap, usually in that order.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.70\|162.158.114.70]] 17:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)		It has been decades since I met people complaining about firmware. The more common uttering when people can't connect to WiFi at tech meetups involves the words: Goddamn, proprietary, Apple and crap, usually in that order.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.70\|162.158.114.70]] 17:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	Relevant SMBC: [http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2475]

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 :That's what I thought too! Girish, [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.197|162.158.166.197]] 05:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 ::I installed Hurd on my router dont judge me ok. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.137|162.158.91.137]] 06:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 :::I doubt it is referring to router firmware. The tech-savviness is of the housguest, not of the router owner (though, I can easily imagine somebody updating host router). --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.106|162.158.134.106]] 12:18, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 :Some devices need operational firmware downloaded to them after reset, so it's handled at boot time by a firmware downloader.  A typical example is devices which have s DSP in them; the DSP's code would be loaded into the device's RAM designated for the purpose.  For Wi-Fi, it might handle the low level details of associating with an AP, performing the WPA2 protocol for example so the device looks for the most part logically like any other network interface, e.g. Ethernet.  In this case, it would have nothing to do with the firmware in the Wi-Fi AP.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:14, 16 January 2017
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	When I first read it, I parsed it as 'Word "firmware"'. Of course Word doesn't have firmware, but it was (I thought) in quote marks simply because that was the stated reason for it not working. When I read the hover text I thought "Randall's missed a capital letter there". [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.16\|198.41.238.16]] 03:05, 14 January 2017 (UTC)		When I first read it, I parsed it as 'Word "firmware"'. Of course Word doesn't have firmware, but it was (I thought) in quote marks simply because that was the stated reason for it not working. When I read the hover text I thought "Randall's missed a capital letter there". [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.16\|198.41.238.16]] 03:05, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	It has been decades since I met people complaining about firmware. The more common uttering when people can't connect to WiFi at tech meetups involves the words: Goddamn, proprietary, Apple and crap, usually in that order.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.114.70\|162.158.114.70]] 17:14, 16 January 2017 (UTC)

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 <!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~-->
-This, I believe, is in reference to things like [https://www.dd-wrt.com/site/ DD-WRT], where someone with knowledge may install it to 'improve' your router. If done right, it can increase the speed and stability, if not, it can brick it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.78.70|172.68.78.70]] 05:23, 13 January 2017 (UTC) That's what I thought too! Girish, [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.197|162.158.166.197]] 05:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
+This, I believe, is in reference to things like [https://www.dd-wrt.com/site/ DD-WRT], where someone with knowledge may install it to 'improve' your router. If done right, it can increase the speed and stability, if not, it can brick it. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.78.70|172.68.78.70]] 05:23, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
-I installed Hurd on my router dont judge me ok. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.137|162.158.91.137]] 06:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
+:That's what I thought too! Girish, [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.197|162.158.166.197]] 05:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
-I doubt it is referring to router firmware. The tech-savviness is of the housguest, not of the router owner (though, I can easily imagine somebody updating host router). --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.106|162.158.134.106]] 12:18, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
+::I installed Hurd on my router dont judge me ok. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.137|162.158.91.137]] 06:14, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 :Some devices need operational firmware downloaded to them after reset, so it's handled at boot time by a firmware downloader.  A typical example is devices which have s DSP in them; the DSP's code would be loaded into the device's RAM designated for the purpose.  For Wi-Fi, it might handle the low level details of associating with an AP, performing the WPA2 protocol for example so the device looks for the most part logically like any other network interface, e.g. Ethernet.  In this case, it would have nothing to do with the firmware in the Wi-Fi AP.

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 :Some devices need operational firmware downloaded to them after reset, so it's handled at boot time by a firmware downloader.  A typical example is devices which have s DSP in them; the DSP's code would be loaded into the device's RAM designated for the purpose.  For Wi-Fi, it might handle the low level details of associating with an AP, performing the WPA2 protocol for example so the device looks for the most part logically like any other network interface, e.g. Ethernet.  In this case, it would have nothing to do with the firmware in the Wi-Fi AP.
 :[[User:RChandra|RChandra]] ([[User talk:RChandra|talk]]) 12:05, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 ''“In most systems this just works but in the case of more geeky operating systems, like GNU/Linux, it needs to be installed separately.”'' Ironically, it's quite the opposite these days. On a fresh Windows install you typically have no network drivers, but with a lot of GNU/Linux distros you have network out of the box. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.60|141.101.105.60]] 09:25, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
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 --[[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 21:40, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
-::Also it's not like you type in the string of commands and then everything goes by itself all the way to reboot, there are several points when it will wait for user input. Apart from disk formatting at the very beginning, there are actually twice <code>vi</code> commands to edit various system-critical config files and even <code>make menuconfig</code> for configuring your kernel build. Trust me, that's not trivial at all ;) Last time I installed Gentoo server, I got so frustrated by picking the right kernel modules (successfully though) that I agreed with the E. A. Poe's Raven to install Gentoo never more. I started my sysadmin career at Gentoo by accident and after a year or two realized there are much easier ways. Great joke though :D Haven't visited Bash for quite some time. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.96.88|141.101.96.88]] 01:33, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
+::Also it's not like you type in the string of commands and then everything goes by itself all the way to reboot, there are several points when it will wait for user input. Apart from disk formatting at the very beginning, there are actually twice <code>vi</code> commands to edit various system-critical config files and even <code>make menuconfig</code> for configuring your kernel build. Trust me, that's not trivial at all ;) Last time I installed Gentoo server, I got so frustrated by picking the right kernel modules (successfully though) that I agreed with the E. A. Poe's Raven to install Gentoo never more. I started my sysadmin career at Gentoo by accident and after a year or two realized there are much easier ways.
 Relevant: xkcd 434

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:05, 14 January 2017
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	[http://www.explainxkcd.com/434 xkcd Goes to the Airport, panel 3]		[http://www.explainxkcd.com/434 xkcd Goes to the Airport, panel 3]
	[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.52\|162.158.214.52]] 17:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)		[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.52\|162.158.214.52]] 17:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	When I first read it, I parsed it as 'Word "firmware"'. Of course Word doesn't have firmware, but it was (I thought) in quote marks simply because that was the stated reason for it not working. When I read the hover text I thought "Randall's missed a capital letter there". [[Special:Contributions/198.41.238.16\|198.41.238.16]] 03:05, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

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 that's the first one<br />
 Source: [http://bash.org/?464385 Bash.org] --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.220|108.162.216.220]] 15:53, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 Relevant: xkcd 434
 [http://www.explainxkcd.com/434 xkcd Goes to the Airport, panel 3]
 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.52|162.158.214.52]] 17:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:19, 13 January 2017
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	I don't understand how the skydiving example is far fetched, but I'm the one who added it so I've got a total of 0 objectivity on the matter :). The skydiving example is here to demonstrate the paradox "the more you know how to fix it, the more it will be broken for you", because in both cases (computer saavy people, or skydiving instructors) the ones who know more are also the ones who will take more risks, and get further away from the common approach to the problem (for skydiving, the common thing to do is to not jump, while non computer saavy people will not try linux or whatever it is that fails to work out of the box). I agree that the skydiving comparison is not perfect (in computing it's a difference of main config/advanced config, while in skydiving it's a difference of doing it or not. Also you can expect your computer knowledge to help you fix thing on a broken computer. In a skydiving accident, no matter how much knowledge you have you are not going to pull a parachute before the issue gets to a terminal point), but it's the one Randall chose for that can of counter-intuitive correlation. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.213\|141.101.69.213]] 13:34, 13 January 2017 (UTC)		I don't understand how the skydiving example is far fetched, but I'm the one who added it so I've got a total of 0 objectivity on the matter :). The skydiving example is here to demonstrate the paradox "the more you know how to fix it, the more it will be broken for you", because in both cases (computer saavy people, or skydiving instructors) the ones who know more are also the ones who will take more risks, and get further away from the common approach to the problem (for skydiving, the common thing to do is to not jump, while non computer saavy people will not try linux or whatever it is that fails to work out of the box). I agree that the skydiving comparison is not perfect (in computing it's a difference of main config/advanced config, while in skydiving it's a difference of doing it or not. Also you can expect your computer knowledge to help you fix thing on a broken computer. In a skydiving accident, no matter how much knowledge you have you are not going to pull a parachute before the issue gets to a terminal point), but it's the one Randall chose for that can of counter-intuitive correlation. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.213\|141.101.69.213]] 13:34, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
		+	:Your explanation here makes sense ''but'' as far as I am concerned (not seeing the original questioning of the analogy to which you seem to be responding back to) the current way it fits into the explanation is abrupt, seems to suggest the titletext ''mentions'' skydiving. Could be solved saying "In the title text ''this is just like'' the ones who die from skydiving..." and maybe some other little tweaks to make it a little more snappy. IMO. Leaving the editing up to others... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.17\|141.101.99.17]] 18:19, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

	it only takes three commands to install Gentoo		it only takes three commands to install Gentoo

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:28, 13 January 2017
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	that's the first one<br />		that's the first one<br />
	Source: [http://bash.org/?464385 Bash.org] --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.220\|108.162.216.220]] 15:53, 13 January 2017 (UTC)		Source: [http://bash.org/?464385 Bash.org] --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.220\|108.162.216.220]] 15:53, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	Relevant: xkcd 434
		+	[http://www.explainxkcd.com/434 xkcd Goes to the Airport, panel 3]
		+	[[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.52\|162.158.214.52]] 17:28, 13 January 2017 (UTC)