Talk:2266: Leap Smearing - Revision history

172.69.68.209: I wish this world was different

2020-02-12T16:59:35Z

I wish this world was different

108.162.238.125: added attribution for a previous unsigned comment by someone else

2020-02-12T14:44:51Z

added attribution for a previous unsigned comment by someone else

108.162.238.125 at 14:39, 12 February 2020

2020-02-12T14:39:41Z

162.158.187.111 at 14:34, 12 February 2020

2020-02-12T14:34:16Z

162.158.187.111 at 14:33, 12 February 2020

2020-02-12T14:33:43Z

Kynde at 12:01, 12 February 2020

2020-02-12T12:01:51Z

162.158.154.139 at 23:40, 11 February 2020

2020-02-11T23:40:43Z

162.158.154.139 at 23:37, 11 February 2020

2020-02-11T23:37:06Z

173.245.54.89 at 23:01, 11 February 2020

2020-02-11T23:01:17Z

NeatNit at 19:00, 11 February 2020

2020-02-11T19:00:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:59, 12 February 2020
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	This would violate the NTP 500ppm maximum slew rate, right? ;) {{unsigned ip\|173.245.54.89}}		This would violate the NTP 500ppm maximum slew rate, right? ;) {{unsigned ip\|173.245.54.89}}
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		+	I really wish this was an interactive comic, with the Time changing throughout the month... [[Special:Contributions/172.69.68.209\|172.69.68.209]] 16:59, 12 February 2020 (UTC) Sam

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 Leap seconds are idiotic. The only people who care about keeping the Earth tied to the time are astronomers. And no one cares about them.[[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 04:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
-:Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you.
+:Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.107.204|141.101.107.204]] 07:08, 11 February 2020‎ (UTC)
 :GPS does NOT have leap seconds.  That's why GPS time is drifting away from UTC.  It's off by about 19 seconds now, since 1980.  However, people would care eventually, when the time on the clock doesn't match up with the solar day (as pointed out by the next comment.) It would take a long time, but why get started off on the wrong foot? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.125|108.162.238.125]] 14:39, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Leap seconds are a mess, but so is changing the definition of UTC and letting it drift away from solar time. There are movements to try to make this change, but there are significant obstacles. (For example, the signatories to the 1884 International Meridian Conference agreed that the civil time everyone should use is based on mean solar time, and US Federal Law indicates that the legal time of the US is based on mean solar time.) [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 06:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

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 Leap seconds are idiotic. The only people who care about keeping the Earth tied to the time are astronomers. And no one cares about them.[[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 04:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you.
-:GPS does NOT compensate for leap seconds.  That's why GPS time is drifting away from UTC.  However, people would care eventually, when the time on the clock doesn't match up with the solar day (as pointed out by the next comment.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.111|162.158.187.111]] 14:34, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
+:GPS does NOT have leap seconds.  That's why GPS time is drifting away from UTC.  It's off by about 19 seconds now, since 1980.  However, people would care eventually, when the time on the clock doesn't match up with the solar day (as pointed out by the next comment.) It would take a long time, but why get started off on the wrong foot? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.125|108.162.238.125]] 14:39, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Leap seconds are a mess, but so is changing the definition of UTC and letting it drift away from solar time. There are movements to try to make this change, but there are significant obstacles. (For example, the signatories to the 1884 International Meridian Conference agreed that the civil time everyone should use is based on mean solar time, and US Federal Law indicates that the legal time of the US is based on mean solar time.) [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 06:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 ::If we don't use leap seconds, then the GPS won't use them either. How many seconds difference before we humans could even notice? A century's worth or more, I'm certain. By then we could just fix the wobble of the Earth. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 07:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

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 Leap seconds are idiotic. The only people who care about keeping the Earth tied to the time are astronomers. And no one cares about them.[[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 04:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you.
-:GPS does NOT compensate for leap seconds.  That's why GPS time is drifting away from UTC.  However, people would care eventually, when the time on the clock doesn't match up with the solar day (as pointed out by the next comment.)
+:GPS does NOT compensate for leap seconds.  That's why GPS time is drifting away from UTC.  However, people would care eventually, when the time on the clock doesn't match up with the solar day (as pointed out by the next comment.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.187.111|162.158.187.111]] 14:34, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Leap seconds are a mess, but so is changing the definition of UTC and letting it drift away from solar time. There are movements to try to make this change, but there are significant obstacles. (For example, the signatories to the 1884 International Meridian Conference agreed that the civil time everyone should use is based on mean solar time, and US Federal Law indicates that the legal time of the US is based on mean solar time.) [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 06:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 ::If we don't use leap seconds, then the GPS won't use them either. How many seconds difference before we humans could even notice? A century's worth or more, I'm certain. By then we could just fix the wobble of the Earth. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 07:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 Leap seconds are idiotic. The only people who care about keeping the Earth tied to the time are astronomers. And no one cares about them.[[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 04:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
-Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you.
+:Oh, you'll care about leap seconds when your GPS starts failing, i assure you.
 :Leap seconds are a mess, but so is changing the definition of UTC and letting it drift away from solar time. There are movements to try to make this change, but there are significant obstacles. (For example, the signatories to the 1884 International Meridian Conference agreed that the civil time everyone should use is based on mean solar time, and US Federal Law indicates that the legal time of the US is based on mean solar time.) [[User:Zmatt|Zmatt]] ([[User talk:Zmatt|talk]]) 06:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 ::If we don't use leap seconds, then the GPS won't use them either. How many seconds difference before we humans could even notice? A century's worth or more, I'm certain. By then we could just fix the wobble of the Earth. [[User:SDSpivey|SDSpivey]] ([[User talk:SDSpivey|talk]]) 07:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

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 I think there is an error in the calculations given in the explanation, but it's possible some bistromathics got involved instead.  By my reckoning, 24 hours smeared over 28 "days" make each "day" 24/28 hours (≈&nbsp;51&nbsp;minutes, 26&nbsp;seconds) longer than a day instead of 24/29.  Also, conveniently for my calculations, the end of "14&nbsp;February" should be exactly halfway through the month, meaning the CEO should have until exactly noon on the 15th to get away with the given excuse (12 extra hours, not 11). [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.239|172.69.33.239]] 10:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 You guys are all missing the point!  We should apply  non-leap smearing to the other 11 months so that EVERY month has 28 days.  No more crazy calendar day-shifting: if you were born on a Monday(e.g.) your birthday will always be Monday.  [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 15:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 : Or {{w|Dayworld_(novel_series)|go even further}}... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.92|162.158.155.92]] 17:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 As of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2266:_Leap_Smearing&oldid=187134 right now], I feel like the explanation is a bit of a mess. I already understand this comic but IMO someone who doesn't would not be able to follow this explanation. I think a better structure would be:
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 --[[User:NeatNit|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit|talk]]) 19:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
+This would violate the NTP 500ppm maximum slew rate, right? ;) {{unsigned ip|173.245.54.89}}

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 :::1. You use “we humans”, who do you think is studying and correcting with leap seconds? Robots? 2. I don’t think you realize just how quickly that would cause problems. [[User:Netherin5|“That Guy from the Netherlands”]] ([[User talk:Netherin5|talk]]) 12:52, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 :Leap seconds are added rougly every couple of years. If we stopped, it would take about a century to be off by a minute, and 6,000 years to be off by an hour. So maybe we should just plan on every 6K years we skip Daylight Saving Time to recover that hour. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 16:26, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
-::For half a year, then we're back to the situation we were ignoring. ;)  ((Obviously, what we might need to do is move the Prime Meridian, send it on a very slow "world tour" by passing it onto the next suitable city. But I'm a bit of a conservative when it comes to historic locations, so we should just put Greenwich Observatory on [[w|Mortal_Engines|wheels]], or [[w|Inverted_World|rails], if necessary.)) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.139|162.158.154.139]] 23:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
+::For half a year, then we're back to the situation we were ignoring. ;)  ((Obviously, what we might need to do is move the Prime Meridian, send it on a very slow "world tour" by passing it onto the next suitable city. But I'm a bit of a conservative when it comes to historic locations, so we should just put Greenwich Observatory on {{w|Mortal_Engines|wheels}}, or {{w|Inverted_World|rails}}, if necessary.)) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.139|162.158.154.139]] 23:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
 I believe the actual time would be 11:42am (on the 11th of February). [[User:Dakranon|Dakranon]] ([[User talk:Dakranon|talk]]) 06:20, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:01, 11 February 2020
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	--[[User:NeatNit\|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit\|talk]]) 19:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)		--[[User:NeatNit\|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit\|talk]]) 19:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
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		+	This would violate the NTP 500ppm maximum slew rate, right? ;)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:00, 11 February 2020
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	You guys are all missing the point! We should apply non-leap smearing to the other 11 months so that EVERY month has 28 days. No more crazy calendar day-shifting: if you were born on a Monday(e.g.) your birthday will always be Monday. [[User:Cellocgw\|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw\|talk]]) 15:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)		You guys are all missing the point! We should apply non-leap smearing to the other 11 months so that EVERY month has 28 days. No more crazy calendar day-shifting: if you were born on a Monday(e.g.) your birthday will always be Monday. [[User:Cellocgw\|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw\|talk]]) 15:06, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
	: Or {{w\|Dayworld_(novel_series)\|go even further}}... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.92\|162.158.155.92]] 17:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)		: Or {{w\|Dayworld_(novel_series)\|go even further}}... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.92\|162.158.155.92]] 17:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+	As of [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2266:_Leap_Smearing&oldid=187134 right now], I feel like the explanation is a bit of a mess. I already understand this comic but IMO someone who doesn't would not be able to follow this explanation. I think a better structure would be:
		+	# Briefly explain what leap seconds are, since most readers will not know about them.
		+	# Explain the "smear second" approach, and mention how the resulting time deviates by only half a second at the worst time.
		+	# A line like "This comic suggests taking the smear second approach and applying it to leap days"
		+	# Brief explanation/reminder of what leap days are - most readers will be familiar with this concept already, and those that don't can click on a Wikipedia link to read more.
		+	# Explanation of how bad the results would be (some math here), the resulting date&time would be off by 24 hours at the worst time (end of Feb 29 will appear as the end of Feb 28). It's not 12 hours because unlike the smear second, the smear period will not be centered around the leap day but rather the leap day will be at the end of the smear period (which is all of February). Also mention exactly what the clock would show on the day of this comic's publication, and what the in-comic time actually is.
		+
		+	--[[User:NeatNit\|NeatNit]] ([[User talk:NeatNit\|talk]]) 19:00, 11 February 2020 (UTC)