Talk:2552: The Last Molecule - Revision history

162.158.216.174 at 12:19, 3 April 2025

2025-04-03T12:19:42Z

162.158.216.98 at 10:31, 3 April 2025

2025-04-03T10:31:53Z

172.68.210.177 at 05:18, 3 April 2025

2025-04-03T05:18:26Z

172.70.230.153: /* E. O. Wilson found a lot of ants */ new section

2022-01-03T16:10:35Z

‎E. O. Wilson found a lot of ants: new section

108.162.245.13: limit size of molecule - edges are often interesting

2021-12-19T19:42:01Z

limit size of molecule - edges are often interesting

256 256.256.256 at 14:47, 16 December 2021

2021-12-16T14:47:02Z

162.158.222.123 at 16:44, 14 December 2021

2021-12-14T16:44:08Z

LegionMammal978: /* Serious hypothesis for the molecule's structure */

2021-12-12T05:32:34Z

‎Serious hypothesis for the molecule's structure

LegionMammal978: /* Serious hypothesis for the molecule's structure */ new section

2021-12-12T05:29:56Z

‎Serious hypothesis for the molecule's structure: new section

172.70.98.153: circles/spirals

2021-12-12T02:07:07Z

circles/spirals

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:19, 3 April 2025
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	I would have thought that chemistry could not be completed before biology, given the large crossover. {{unsigned ip\|172.68.210.177\|05:18, 3 April 2025}}		I would have thought that chemistry could not be completed before biology, given the large crossover. {{unsigned ip\|172.68.210.177\|05:18, 3 April 2025}}
		+	:[[435: Purity\|Biology is just applied chemistry]]... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.216.174\|162.158.216.174]] 12:19, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:31, 3 April 2025
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	Coincidentally, world-renowned myrmecologist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson E. O. Wilson] — who personally discovered more than 400 species of ants — died on 2021-12-26. Reading the comic in January 2022, I initially took "they keep finding more ants" as a posthumous homage to Wilson... but as this comic was apparently published 2021-12-09, I guess that would have required a time machine on Munroe's part. Just a coincidence, then. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.153\|172.70.230.153]] 16:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)		Coincidentally, world-renowned myrmecologist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson E. O. Wilson] — who personally discovered more than 400 species of ants — died on 2021-12-26. Reading the comic in January 2022, I initially took "they keep finding more ants" as a posthumous homage to Wilson... but as this comic was apparently published 2021-12-09, I guess that would have required a time machine on Munroe's part. Just a coincidence, then. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.153\|172.70.230.153]] 16:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

−	I would have thought that chemistry could not be completed before biology, given the large crossover.	+	I would have thought that chemistry could not be completed before biology, given the large crossover. {{unsigned ip\|172.68.210.177\|05:18, 3 April 2025}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:18, 3 April 2025
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	Coincidentally, world-renowned myrmecologist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson E. O. Wilson] — who personally discovered more than 400 species of ants — died on 2021-12-26. Reading the comic in January 2022, I initially took "they keep finding more ants" as a posthumous homage to Wilson... but as this comic was apparently published 2021-12-09, I guess that would have required a time machine on Munroe's part. Just a coincidence, then. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.153\|172.70.230.153]] 16:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)		Coincidentally, world-renowned myrmecologist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson E. O. Wilson] — who personally discovered more than 400 species of ants — died on 2021-12-26. Reading the comic in January 2022, I initially took "they keep finding more ants" as a posthumous homage to Wilson... but as this comic was apparently published 2021-12-09, I guess that would have required a time machine on Munroe's part. Just a coincidence, then. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.153\|172.70.230.153]] 16:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	I would have thought that chemistry could not be completed before biology, given the large crossover.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:10, 3 January 2022
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	Assuming this interpretation of the molecule's structure is correct, its preferred IUPAC name (PIN) is "[(amino{1-[(2''R'',3''S'',4''R'',6''R'')-4-hydroxy-5-(hydroxymethyl)-3-propoxyoxolan-2-yl]-1''H''-1,2,4-triazol-3-yl}methylidene)amino]acetic acid". [[User:LegionMammal978\|LegionMammal978]] ([[User talk:LegionMammal978\|talk]]) 05:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)		Assuming this interpretation of the molecule's structure is correct, its preferred IUPAC name (PIN) is "[(amino{1-[(2''R'',3''S'',4''R'',6''R'')-4-hydroxy-5-(hydroxymethyl)-3-propoxyoxolan-2-yl]-1''H''-1,2,4-triazol-3-yl}methylidene)amino]acetic acid". [[User:LegionMammal978\|LegionMammal978]] ([[User talk:LegionMammal978\|talk]]) 05:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	== E. O. Wilson found a lot of ants ==
		+
		+	Coincidentally, world-renowned myrmecologist [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson E. O. Wilson] — who personally discovered more than 400 species of ants — died on 2021-12-26. Reading the comic in January 2022, I initially took "they keep finding more ants" as a posthumous homage to Wilson... but as this comic was apparently published 2021-12-09, I guess that would have required a time machine on Munroe's part. Just a coincidence, then. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.153\|172.70.230.153]] 16:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 :For obvious reasons, as long as you limit the number of atoms involved the number of possible "molecules" is - in a mathematical sense - finite. (As there is only a finite number of reasonable stable elements.) But already simple things like polymers can bind millions of atoms in a single molecule. Together with the possible variations intrinsic to such polymers a simple "material" like phenolic resin [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin]] is a mixture of more different chemical compounds (in a strict sense) than mankind can ever describe. For all practical application this compexity is not relevant, so no one really cares about.
 Additionally there is no clear boundary between typical molecules and other types of condensed matter, like crystals. Same applies to biochemistry. Does chemistry include bio-molecules? If yes, the chemistry guy have to include all the gene sequencing in their to-do list.
 "how fast does light travel in one direction?" is not a good example for incompleteness in physics, because this question was settled by Michelson and Morley in the 19th century (answer: it travels with the speed of light)

@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 Unsuccessfully tried to search for a match to the image of the chemical compound. Did find this, which is difficult to use on a cellphone: OSRA: Optical Structure Recognition:  https://cactus.nci.nih.gov/cgi-bin/osra/index.cgi [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.172|1 not72.70.211.172]] 07:43, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 :I've tried to search for SMILES of the molecule, but also got nothing: https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/#query=C1(C2CC(CCC)C(CC)C2(CCCC))C%3DCC(C(%3DCCC(%3DC)CC)C(C)C)%3DC1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.137|162.158.222.137]]
-::Let's name it Excacidin ;) [[User:256 256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256 256.256.256|talk]]) 07:19, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
+::Let's name it Excacidin ;) [[User:256.256.256.256|256.256.256.256]] ([[User talk:256.256.256.256|talk]]) 07:19, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 :: Here is updated SMILES taking into account comments below: N1(C2OC(CO)C(O)C2(OCCC))C=NC(C(=NCC(=O)O)N)=N1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.123|162.158.222.123]] 16:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

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 Probably the most ambiguous group is the one second from the right. Based on the bond patterns alone, it would be consistent with an amidine, which is probably the possibility most likely to occur in real compounds. However, ''N''′-monosubstituted amidines seem pretty rare based on a cursory search, and most likely tautomerize quickly into ''N''-monosubstituted amidines. I don't have any other idea of what it could be, though.
-I strongly suspect that the furanose is <small>D</small>-ribofuranose. The leftmost three groups can be seen as a modification of [[wikipedia:Adenosine|adenosine]], which is one of the nucleosides found in DNA. In addition, '''the majority of this molecule exactly matches the antiviral drug [[wikipedia:Taribavirin|taribavirin]]''', which is used against hepatitis C and influenza. In fact, the drug may very well have been the inspiration for this molecule.
+I strongly suspect that the furanose is <small>D</small>-ribofuranose. The leftmost three groups can be seen as a modification of [[wikipedia:Adenosine|adenosine]], which is one of the nucleosides found in DNA. In addition, '''the majority of this molecule exactly matches the antiviral drug [[wikipedia:Taribavirin|taribavirin]]''', which is used against hepatitis C and influenza. In fact, the drug may very well have been the inspiration for this molecule. The only two differences are an ''O''<sup>2</sup>-propyl substitution on the ribofuranose, and an ''N''′-(carboxymethyl) substitution on the amidine.
 Assuming this interpretation of the molecule's structure is correct, its preferred IUPAC name (PIN) is "[(amino{1-[(2''R'',3''S'',4''R'',6''R'')-4-hydroxy-5-(hydroxymethyl)-3-propoxyoxolan-2-yl]-1''H''-1,2,4-triazol-3-yl}methylidene)amino]acetic acid". [[User:LegionMammal978|LegionMammal978]] ([[User talk:LegionMammal978|talk]]) 05:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:29, 12 December 2021
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	I think something could be added about how determining how "complete" is a discipline already requires a complete knowledge of that discipline, even if we limit this to the inappropriate "number of known entities" approach. Some plausible estimates are naturally possible and a historic example seems to be more in line with the current explanation. A good fit seems to be how in physics the proton, neutron and electron model seemed at some point quite complete and was less crowded than the current one, still not sure how much of this understanding is a myth or how to put it in the explanation, so I prefer to leave it to someone else. For biology Wikipedia has {{w\|Biological dark matter}} and the more theoretical {{w\|Shadow biosphere}}, in case the number of unstudied multicellular organisms isn't sobering enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.98.153\|172.70.98.153]] 02:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)		I think something could be added about how determining how "complete" is a discipline already requires a complete knowledge of that discipline, even if we limit this to the inappropriate "number of known entities" approach. Some plausible estimates are naturally possible and a historic example seems to be more in line with the current explanation. A good fit seems to be how in physics the proton, neutron and electron model seemed at some point quite complete and was less crowded than the current one, still not sure how much of this understanding is a myth or how to put it in the explanation, so I prefer to leave it to someone else. For biology Wikipedia has {{w\|Biological dark matter}} and the more theoretical {{w\|Shadow biosphere}}, in case the number of unstudied multicellular organisms isn't sobering enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.98.153\|172.70.98.153]] 02:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Serious hypothesis for the molecule's structure ==
		+
		+	I'm not sure why everyone keeps interpreting the picture as only containing carbon atoms. The leftmost moiety is clearly an ''O''<sup>2</sup>-substituted furanosyl group; exactly which furanose it is is uncertain, since the stereochemistry is not indicated at all. It could be <small>D</small>-ribofuranose, <small>D</small>-arabinofuranose, <small>D</small>-xylofuranose, <small>D</small>-lyxofuranose, or any of their <small>L</small>-enantiomers.
		+
		+	The central ring best matches the pattern of a 1,2,4-triazole, just looking at the bond patterns. It is consistent with how I've seen them in other compounds. Similarly, the rightmost group is clearly the -COOH of a carboxylic acid.
		+
		+	Probably the most ambiguous group is the one second from the right. Based on the bond patterns alone, it would be consistent with an amidine, which is probably the possibility most likely to occur in real compounds. However, ''N''′-monosubstituted amidines seem pretty rare based on a cursory search, and most likely tautomerize quickly into ''N''-monosubstituted amidines. I don't have any other idea of what it could be, though.
		+
		+	I strongly suspect that the furanose is <small>D</small>-ribofuranose. The leftmost three groups can be seen as a modification of [[wikipedia:Adenosine\|adenosine]], which is one of the nucleosides found in DNA. In addition, '''the majority of this molecule exactly matches the antiviral drug [[wikipedia:Taribavirin\|taribavirin]]''', which is used against hepatitis C and influenza. In fact, the drug may very well have been the inspiration for this molecule.
		+
		+	Assuming this interpretation of the molecule's structure is correct, its preferred IUPAC name (PIN) is "[(amino{1-[(2''R'',3''S'',4''R'',6''R'')-4-hydroxy-5-(hydroxymethyl)-3-propoxyoxolan-2-yl]-1''H''-1,2,4-triazol-3-yl}methylidene)amino]acetic acid". [[User:LegionMammal978\|LegionMammal978]] ([[User talk:LegionMammal978\|talk]]) 05:29, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:07, 12 December 2021
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	I saw a citation needed about the Higgs Boson. Is it needed for humor? The higgs boson isn't obvious.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.191\|172.70.34.191]] 19:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC)		I saw a citation needed about the Higgs Boson. Is it needed for humor? The higgs boson isn't obvious.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.191\|172.70.34.191]] 19:14, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Circular reasoning ==
		+
		+	I think something could be added about how determining how "complete" is a discipline already requires a complete knowledge of that discipline, even if we limit this to the inappropriate "number of known entities" approach. Some plausible estimates are naturally possible and a historic example seems to be more in line with the current explanation. A good fit seems to be how in physics the proton, neutron and electron model seemed at some point quite complete and was less crowded than the current one, still not sure how much of this understanding is a myth or how to put it in the explanation, so I prefer to leave it to someone else. For biology Wikipedia has {{w\|Biological dark matter}} and the more theoretical {{w\|Shadow biosphere}}, in case the number of unstudied multicellular organisms isn't sobering enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.98.153\|172.70.98.153]] 02:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)