Talk:2577: Sea Chase - Revision history

172.70.90.121: Response to comment on the falgs

2022-03-01T16:06:44Z

Response to comment on the falgs

172.70.230.157 at 21:35, 28 February 2022

2022-02-28T21:35:14Z

Kynde at 17:30, 13 February 2022

2022-02-13T17:30:21Z

Kynde at 17:28, 13 February 2022

2022-02-13T17:28:18Z

Kynde at 17:27, 13 February 2022

2022-02-13T17:27:37Z

172.70.178.25: comment

2022-02-07T21:42:25Z

comment

162.158.107.104 at 16:21, 7 February 2022

2022-02-07T16:21:08Z

Miamiclay: Typo

2022-02-06T20:59:42Z

Typo

172.70.85.79 at 20:23, 6 February 2022

2022-02-06T20:23:10Z

162.158.222.155: Direction

2022-02-06T20:00:20Z

Direction

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 :I think it is safe to say that Randall did not think too much about how the ships sails worked. For one if the ship has the wind in from the back, then the flags would blow the other way, since the ship will never sail as fast as the wind. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:30, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 It should be noted that the Dymaxion map used afloat would almost assuredly be of the "contiguous oceans" variety of projections, not one of the versions that splits the oceans to produce contiguous land masses... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.104|162.158.107.104]] 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 :They're pointing right, which matches the map? (Was posting the following comment, but might as well answer this straight away.) Also, being chased by a pirate ''towards'' all those lovely New World riches seems funny idea, on balance. Although of course it depends on when and how a privateer discovers a possible prize... for some reason in the very middle of the Atlantic rather than in a more bottlenecked part of the trade-routes. Perhaps the merchantman was spotted leaving the vicinity of Bermuda (they have the sails for it!), with signs of carrying cargo of value, and it was considered worth chasing all the way to the mid-Atlantic, just about catching them up. The voice 'from the map' comes from the Easterly ship, as well, so that can really only mean that it went just a little more east prior to the gap-in-the-map appears and it would make Europe the most practical destination afterwards. As for the winds, matching the map position with prevailing/trade-wind diagrams, they could easily be caught in a north-westerly/north-easterly zone that naturally forms a gyre in the atmospheric flow (on average, and of course passing weather systems can send contrary winds any which way off the various edges of a rotating or counter-rotating pressure-system as it moves loosely across the ocean. On the whole I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that they're Europe-bound (by inclination and/or because that's the way the chase takes them), based upon both illustrative convention and the general logistics of the situation, but then with the possible top-mast flags 'error' I'm not sure exactly how strictly Randall intended this all to be. He could have colour-coded the dots, individually, if he was even that bothered - not just made them both red. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 ::Very long explanation for nothing ;-) That they are sailing east is clear from the fact that the red dot closest to Europe is the one being chased, and it just crosses the meridian from the west to the east so they can throw the switch. End of all other arguments. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 :They're pointing right, which matches the map? (Was posting the following comment, but might as well answer this straight away.) Also, being chased by a pirate ''towards'' all those lovely New World riches seems funny idea, on balance. Although of course it depends on when and how a privateer discovers a possible prize... for some reason in the very middle of the Atlantic rather than in a more bottlenecked part of the trade-routes. Perhaps the merchantman was spotted leaving the vicinity of Bermuda (they have the sails for it!), with signs of carrying cargo of value, and it was considered worth chasing all the way to the mid-Atlantic, just about catching them up. The voice 'from the map' comes from the Easterly ship, as well, so that can really only mean that it went just a little more east prior to the gap-in-the-map appears and it would make Europe the most practical destination afterwards. As for the winds, matching the map position with prevailing/trade-wind diagrams, they could easily be caught in a north-westerly/north-easterly zone that naturally forms a gyre in the atmospheric flow (on average, and of course passing weather systems can send contrary winds any which way off the various edges of a rotating or counter-rotating pressure-system as it moves loosely across the ocean. On the whole I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that they're Europe-bound (by inclination and/or because that's the way the chase takes them), based upon both illustrative convention and the general logistics of the situation, but then with the possible top-mast flags 'error' I'm not sure exactly how strictly Randall intended this all to be. He could have colour-coded the dots, individually, if he was even that bothered - not just made them both red. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 ::Very long explanation for nothing ;-) That they are sailing east is clear from the fact that the red dot closest to Europe is the one being chased, and it just crosses the meridian from the west to the east so they can throw the switch. End of all other arguments. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 It should be noted that the Dymaxion map used afloat would almost assuredly be of the "contiguous oceans" variety of projections, not one of the versions that splits the oceans to produce contiguous land masses... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.104|162.158.107.104]] 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
-*Changing the projection would be extremely unhelpful for any other ships traveling the Atlantic between North America and Europe which hadn't arrived at the meridian yet, as they would have to travel hundreds of miles out of their way to continue their journey. Not to mention, any ship that was ''on'' the meridian elsewhere in the ocean would be split in half. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.25|172.70.178.25]] 21:42, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
+Changing the projection would be extremely unhelpful for any other ships traveling the Atlantic between North America and Europe which hadn't arrived at the meridian yet, as they would have to travel hundreds of miles out of their way to continue their journey. Not to mention, any ship that was ''on'' the meridian elsewhere in the ocean would be split in half. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.25|172.70.178.25]] 21:42, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 ;The strange large anachronistic square incongruous inscribed otherworldly ¿synthetic? reality-warping switch....
 Interesting edits about the switch, along the way. Generally I think compounded adjectival descriptors go by the order of opinion, size, age, shape, (existential) quality, colour, origin, material and purpose - though there are disagreements and alternate versions of that list. What is incongruousity? An opinion or a quality (or origin, at a push?), I'd guess, making each order potentially valid. (In advance of any further arguments, I suggest "strange large" rather than an edit-war, though I personally like its incongruousness being mentioned, and incongruousicity in general. YMMV.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.73|162.158.159.73]] 17:22, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ::I reckon it looks more like a Jolly Roger. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.87|108.162.249.87]] 02:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 :::Ah, you're right. I was thinking Union Jack for a minute but thought there were too many streaks. The upper and lower portions of the skull nearly touch the edge of the flag, making it look like something akin to a sunburst. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.99|172.70.114.99]] 02:46, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
-::::If you look at the 2x size image and zoom in it is very clearly the Skull and Crossbones flag from pirates. Which makes a lot of sense. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
+::::If you look at the [https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sea_chase_2x.png 2x size image] and zoom in it is very clearly the Skull and Crossbones flag from pirates. Which makes a lot of sense. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
 Okay, I added an initial description for the title text and made a bunch of edits. I'll stop now to let other people get in on the action. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.99|172.70.114.99]] 02:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 The flag on the lefthand ship (port-side, if you will :P) looks like the {{w|Rising Sun Flag}} that the Japanese Navy uses as its ensign. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.147|172.70.110.147]] 02:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 :Actually, that the Navy used in 1889 (not uses). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.147|172.70.110.147]] 02:31, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
-:I reckon it looks more like a Jolly Roger. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.87|108.162.249.87]] 02:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
+::I reckon it looks more like a Jolly Roger. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.87|108.162.249.87]] 02:44, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
-::Ah, you're right. I was thinking Union Jack for a minute but thought there were too many streaks. The upper and lower portions of the skull nearly touch the edge of the flag, making it look like something akin to a sunburst. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.99|172.70.114.99]] 02:46, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
+:::Ah, you're right. I was thinking Union Jack for a minute but thought there were too many streaks. The upper and lower portions of the skull nearly touch the edge of the flag, making it look like something akin to a sunburst. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.99|172.70.114.99]] 02:46, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 Okay, I added an initial description for the title text and made a bunch of edits. I'll stop now to let other people get in on the action. :P [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.99|172.70.114.99]] 02:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 12: / Line 13: @@
 What's the reason for thinking the ships are sailing towards Europe?  The prevailing wind in the north Atlantic is more or less westerly, so ships tacking into the wind are more likely to be heading west. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.155|162.158.222.155]] 20:00, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
-:They're pointing right, which matches the map? (Was posting the following comment, but might as well answer this straight away.) Also, being chased by a pirate ''towards'' all those lovely New World riches seems funny idea, on balance. Although of course it depends on when and how a privateer discovers a possible prize... for some reason in the very middle of the Atlantic rather than in a more bottlenecked part of the trade-routes.
+:They're pointing right, which matches the map? (Was posting the following comment, but might as well answer this straight away.) Also, being chased by a pirate ''towards'' all those lovely New World riches seems funny idea, on balance. Although of course it depends on when and how a privateer discovers a possible prize... for some reason in the very middle of the Atlantic rather than in a more bottlenecked part of the trade-routes. Perhaps the merchantman was spotted leaving the vicinity of Bermuda (they have the sails for it!), with signs of carrying cargo of value, and it was considered worth chasing all the way to the mid-Atlantic, just about catching them up. The voice 'from the map' comes from the Easterly ship, as well, so that can really only mean that it went just a little more east prior to the gap-in-the-map appears and it would make Europe the most practical destination afterwards. As for the winds, matching the map position with prevailing/trade-wind diagrams, they could easily be caught in a north-westerly/north-easterly zone that naturally forms a gyre in the atmospheric flow (on average, and of course passing weather systems can send contrary winds any which way off the various edges of a rotating or counter-rotating pressure-system as it moves loosely across the ocean. On the whole I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that they're Europe-bound (by inclination and/or because that's the way the chase takes them), based upon both illustrative convention and the general logistics of the situation, but then with the possible top-mast flags 'error' I'm not sure exactly how strictly Randall intended this all to be. He could have colour-coded the dots, individually, if he was even that bothered - not just made them both red. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
-:Perhaps the merchantman was spotted leaving the vicinity of Bermuda (they have the sails for it!), with signs of carrying cargo of value, and it was considered worth chasing all the way to the mid-Atlantic, just about catching them up.
+::Very long explanation for nothing ;-) That they are sailing east is clear from the fact that the red dot closest to Europe is the one being chased, and it just crosses the meridian from the west to the east so they can throw the switch. End of all other arguments. ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 17:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
-:The voice 'from the map' comes from the Easterly ship, as well, so that can really only mean that it went just a little more east prior to the gap-in-the-map appears and it would make Europe the most practical destination afterwards.
 So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 25: / Line 24: @@
-== The strange large anachronistic square incongruous inscribed otherworldly ¿synthetic? reality-warping switch.... ==
+;The strange large anachronistic square incongruous inscribed otherworldly ¿synthetic? reality-warping switch....
 Interesting edits about the switch, along the way. Generally I think compounded adjectival descriptors go by the order of opinion, size, age, shape, (existential) quality, colour, origin, material and purpose - though there are disagreements and alternate versions of that list. What is incongruousity? An opinion or a quality (or origin, at a push?), I'd guess, making each order potentially valid. (In advance of any further arguments, I suggest "strange large" rather than an edit-war, though I personally like its incongruousness being mentioned, and incongruousicity in general. YMMV.) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.73|162.158.159.73]] 17:22, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 7 February 2022
Line 22:		Line 22:
	It should be noted that the Dymaxion map used afloat would almost assuredly be of the "contiguous oceans" variety of projections, not one of the versions that splits the oceans to produce contiguous land masses... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.104\|162.158.107.104]] 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)		It should be noted that the Dymaxion map used afloat would almost assuredly be of the "contiguous oceans" variety of projections, not one of the versions that splits the oceans to produce contiguous land masses... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.104\|162.158.107.104]] 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

		+	*Changing the projection would be extremely unhelpful for any other ships traveling the Atlantic between North America and Europe which hadn't arrived at the meridian yet, as they would have to travel hundreds of miles out of their way to continue their journey. Not to mention, any ship that was ''on'' the meridian elsewhere in the ocean would be split in half. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.178.25\|172.70.178.25]] 21:42, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:21, 7 February 2022
Line 19:		Line 19:

	So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)		So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	It should be noted that the Dymaxion map used afloat would almost assuredly be of the "contiguous oceans" variety of projections, not one of the versions that splits the oceans to produce contiguous land masses... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.107.104\|162.158.107.104]] 16:21, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:59, 6 February 2022
Line 18:		Line 18:
	:On the whole I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that they're Europe-bound (by inclination and/or because that's the way the chase takes them), based upon both illustrative convention and the general logistics of the situation, but then with the possible top-mast flags 'error' I'm not sure exactly how strictly Randall intended this all to be. He could have colour-coded the dots, individually, if he was even that bothered - not just made them both red. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)		:On the whole I think it was a reasonable assumption to make that they're Europe-bound (by inclination and/or because that's the way the chase takes them), based upon both illustrative convention and the general logistics of the situation, but then with the possible top-mast flags 'error' I'm not sure exactly how strictly Randall intended this all to be. He could have colour-coded the dots, individually, if he was even that bothered - not just made them both red. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

−	So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems ~~distintly~~ inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)	+	So by my (less than encyclopedic) reckoning, that's a fast gaff-rigged sloop flying chasing what appears to be a more cumbersome gunter-rigged (or bermuda?) schooner (iffy on that one, but it's not a ketch). What's most strange is that they're triangular, not square, as a merchantman/non-raider should need (especially in a chase such as this) as much sail as possible just to get its deeper and wider hull moving. Neither are using topsails, maybe because the wind conditions are contrary. Yes, the top-flags are pointing backwards, but then that's also a common artist error (with anything other than a modern wingsail), while both ships are flying clearly foreward sails (not spinnakers, I'm sure) and the chased one seems distinctly inflated to the direction of travel. Era-specific peculiarities are beyond my easy assessment (or indeed what century such an encounter might actually be in). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.79\|172.70.85.79]] 20:23, 6 February 2022 (UTC)