Talk:2595: Advanced Techniques - Revision history

Psychoticpotato at 13:12, 25 September 2024

2024-09-25T13:12:00Z

172.70.206.205: Add comment in support of "whimsical names actually help mathematicians" viewpoint

2023-01-17T11:42:41Z

Add comment in support of "whimsical names actually help mathematicians" viewpoint

162.158.62.188 at 20:17, 5 December 2022

2022-12-05T20:17:20Z

162.158.62.241 at 20:16, 5 December 2022

2022-12-05T20:16:11Z

172.70.175.54 at 22:26, 27 March 2022

2022-03-27T22:26:54Z

172.70.251.112: correction necessary

2022-03-23T16:28:40Z

correction necessary

172.70.251.112: some comment; Langlands

2022-03-23T16:27:31Z

some comment; Langlands

ProphetZarquon: It's not an alternative view, it's what ties the whole thing together to make a joke!

2022-03-22T22:33:41Z

It's not an alternative view, it's what ties the whole thing together to make a joke!

Kynde at 13:46, 22 March 2022

2022-03-22T13:46:04Z

162.158.34.119 at 09:18, 22 March 2022

2022-03-22T09:18:12Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:12, 25 September 2024
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	I agree with the above comment about whimsical names: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)		I agree with the above comment about whimsical names: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
	: Plus one to this. Some more examples: in abstract algebra, one speaks about "annihilators" acting on subspaces or rings. My advanced linear algebra professor would routinely refer to minimal polynomials "killing a matrix/linear operator." So it seems perfectly reasonable to "slay" the "dragon" as in the comic, so long as those terms refer to properly-defined operations and objects! I think such expressive terms can help mathematicians convey a tangible intuition for what is happening; they see the interplay of abstract mathematical objects as a real-life dance or drama. Also- there's a whole subfield of geometric topology called Surgery Theory :) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.205\|172.70.206.205]] 11:42, 17 January 2023 (UTC)		: Plus one to this. Some more examples: in abstract algebra, one speaks about "annihilators" acting on subspaces or rings. My advanced linear algebra professor would routinely refer to minimal polynomials "killing a matrix/linear operator." So it seems perfectly reasonable to "slay" the "dragon" as in the comic, so long as those terms refer to properly-defined operations and objects! I think such expressive terms can help mathematicians convey a tangible intuition for what is happening; they see the interplay of abstract mathematical objects as a real-life dance or drama. Also- there's a whole subfield of geometric topology called Surgery Theory :) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.205\|172.70.206.205]] 11:42, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	This feels vaguely like the ''Dungeons and Discourse'' comics on [https://dresdencodak.com/category/oneoffs/ Dresden Codak]. [[User:Psychoticpotato\|P?sych??otic?pot??at???o ]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 13:12, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:42, 17 January 2023
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	I agree with the above comment about whimsical names: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)		I agree with the above comment about whimsical names: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
		+	: Plus one to this. Some more examples: in abstract algebra, one speaks about "annihilators" acting on subspaces or rings. My advanced linear algebra professor would routinely refer to minimal polynomials "killing a matrix/linear operator." So it seems perfectly reasonable to "slay" the "dragon" as in the comic, so long as those terms refer to properly-defined operations and objects! I think such expressive terms can help mathematicians convey a tangible intuition for what is happening; they see the interplay of abstract mathematical objects as a real-life dance or drama. Also- there's a whole subfield of geometric topology called Surgery Theory :) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.205\|172.70.206.205]] 11:42, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:17, 5 December 2022
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	I had an entirely different take. It is not unknown for mathematicians to use whimsical names. In a new field whimsical names are common, because the usual suspects are taken. It is entirely possible to have well defined mathematical objects called dragons and corpses and an operator called Hilbert's arrow. Ms. Lenhart could be giving a dry description of a mathematical technique using the language common to the field.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.54\|172.70.175.54]] 22:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)		I had an entirely different take. It is not unknown for mathematicians to use whimsical names. In a new field whimsical names are common, because the usual suspects are taken. It is entirely possible to have well defined mathematical objects called dragons and corpses and an operator called Hilbert's arrow. Ms. Lenhart could be giving a dry description of a mathematical technique using the language common to the field.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.54\|172.70.175.54]] 22:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

−	I agree with the above comment: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:15, 5 December 2022 (UTC)	+	I agree with the above comment about whimsical names: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:16, 5 December 2022
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	I had an entirely different take. It is not unknown for mathematicians to use whimsical names. In a new field whimsical names are common, because the usual suspects are taken. It is entirely possible to have well defined mathematical objects called dragons and corpses and an operator called Hilbert's arrow. Ms. Lenhart could be giving a dry description of a mathematical technique using the language common to the field.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.54\|172.70.175.54]] 22:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)		I had an entirely different take. It is not unknown for mathematicians to use whimsical names. In a new field whimsical names are common, because the usual suspects are taken. It is entirely possible to have well defined mathematical objects called dragons and corpses and an operator called Hilbert's arrow. Ms. Lenhart could be giving a dry description of a mathematical technique using the language common to the field.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.54\|172.70.175.54]] 22:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	I agree with the above comment: see for example the Ham Sandwich Theorem. [[Special:Contributions/165.123.230.102\|165.123.230.102]] 20:15, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:26, 27 March 2022
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	Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119\|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)		Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119\|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	I had an entirely different take. It is not unknown for mathematicians to use whimsical names. In a new field whimsical names are common, because the usual suspects are taken. It is entirely possible to have well defined mathematical objects called dragons and corpses and an operator called Hilbert's arrow. Ms. Lenhart could be giving a dry description of a mathematical technique using the language common to the field.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.175.54\|172.70.175.54]] 22:26, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 41: / Line 41: @@
 : I agree as well. "An alternative view" seems like the wrong way to state this: I believe the ''entire'' joke is that Randall is comparing the processes described in the preceding paragraph (transforming a function to another domain & such), to the "sufficiently advanced technology" of Clarke's "third law". It's not an either/or proposition: The references to advanced maths are there, to illustrate how fine the line is between complex operations, & "magic"; & the D&D metaphors are there, to bring the "magic" into a context that sounds more structured & math-like, than some arbitrary 'hocus pocus'.
 : [[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:33, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
-::Agree as well. Reminds me ofthe Langlands Programmme. Guess Randall has been reading that article, too.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.251.112|172.70.251.112]] 16:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
+::Agree as well. Reminds me of the Langlands Programme. Guess Randall has been reading that article, too.--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.251.112|172.70.251.112]] 16:27, 23 March 2022 (UTC)
 Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 I suspect there's also an aspect of how, if you don't know the mathematical concepts involved, some of these solution methods can seem more like the author is just casting spells. The context that most immediately comes to me is solving integrals with weird techniques that involve mapping to other planes and such. I would say that solving integrals was the first place I really saw creativity being heavily focused on in my math curriculum. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 08:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 : I couldn't agree more. {{unsigned ip|172.70.250.231}}
 Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 Not my area, but I am passingly familiar with the [[:wikipedia:Gauss–Kuzmin–Wirsing_operator|Gauss–Kuzmin–Wirsing Operator]], [[wikipedia:Dragon curve|Dragon Curves]], and [[wikipedia:Hilbert spaces|Hilbert ''Spaces'']] (guessing that the "arrow" refers to scalar vector?). Some type of iterative/recursive conversion that yields to analysis of the period? Probably not pertinent to the joke which is more about the fanciful names attached to mathematical concepts, constructs, and processes [[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.173|108.162.245.173]] 11:53, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
-I find it inteteresting that despite now being the day after release (or well into the next day, my time, which is usually sufficient — and I'm not in a DST zone yet) the site explanation hasn't explained (or thought it has explained) every single element of the in-comic 'explanation' — even if not established the (probably) nonsensical whole. As an example, I don't yet see the obvious {{w|Dragon_curve|dragon}} element that is both alluded to ''and'' seemingly illustrated upon the board-notes. Leaving this here to help near-future editors who might have time to bullet-point/tabulate/sub-heading these things and just need that extra bit of info. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.125|162.158.159.125]] 15:01, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
+I find it interesting that despite now being the day after release (or well into the next day, my time, which is usually sufficient — and I'm not in a DST zone yet) the site explanation hasn't explained (or thought it has explained) every single element of the in-comic 'explanation' — even if not established the (probably) nonsensical whole. As an example, I don't yet see the obvious {{w|Dragon_curve|dragon}} element that is both alluded to ''and'' seemingly illustrated upon the board-notes. Leaving this here to help near-future editors who might have time to bullet-point/tabulate/sub-heading these things and just need that extra bit of info. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.125|162.158.159.125]] 15:01, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
 There is the misquote of Arthur Clarke "All sufficiently advanced [strike]technologies[/strike] mathematical techniques are indistinguishable from magic." [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]])
 :Fix it!
 :[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 23:28, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
-::I'm not sure what Arachrah means, because technologies is included in toe original version: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I have corrected the explanation to that and also added link to wiki. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:25, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
+::I'm not sure what Arachrah means, because technologies is included in the original version: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. I have corrected the explanation to that and also added link to wiki. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:25, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
 The explanation should decide whether the teacher is Miss Lenhart, or Blondie. I think it's Miss Lenhart. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 17:02, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 I suspect there's also an aspect of how, if you don't know the mathematical concepts involved, some of these solution methods can seem more like the author is just casting spells. The context that most immediately comes to me is solving integrals with weird techniques that involve mapping to other planes and such. I would say that solving integrals was the first place I really saw creativity being heavily focused on in my math curriculum. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 08:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
-: I couldn't agree more.
+: I couldn't agree more. {{unsigned ip|172.70.250.231}}
 Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:18, 22 March 2022
Line 38:		Line 38:

	I suspect there's also an aspect of how, if you don't know the mathematical concepts involved, some of these solution methods can seem more like the author is just casting spells. The context that most immediately comes to me is solving integrals with weird techniques that involve mapping to other planes and such. I would say that solving integrals was the first place I really saw creativity being heavily focused on in my math curriculum. [[User:Trlkly\|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly\|talk]]) 08:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)		I suspect there's also an aspect of how, if you don't know the mathematical concepts involved, some of these solution methods can seem more like the author is just casting spells. The context that most immediately comes to me is solving integrals with weird techniques that involve mapping to other planes and such. I would say that solving integrals was the first place I really saw creativity being heavily focused on in my math curriculum. [[User:Trlkly\|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly\|talk]]) 08:43, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
−	* I couldn't agree more.	+	: I couldn't agree more.
		+
		+	Re. '[metaphor] is not usually used in math classes.' - it's used a lot more than you might initially assume - there's at least one example in this explanation, where it talks about transforming between 'domains'.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.119\|162.158.34.119]] 09:18, 22 March 2022 (UTC)