Talk:2642: Meta-Alternating Current - Revision history

172.71.150.154: active vs reactive load

2024-01-14T06:27:37Z

active vs reactive load

172.70.85.13 at 22:01, 24 August 2022

2022-08-24T22:01:14Z

172.71.94.187 at 22:56, 24 July 2022

2022-07-24T22:56:00Z

162.158.166.183: https://www.physics-and-radio-electronics.com/electronic-devices-and-circuits/rectifier/bridgerectifier.html

2022-07-16T19:40:56Z

https://www.physics-and-radio-electronics.com/electronic-devices-and-circuits/rectifier/bridgerectifier.html

162.158.166.183: https://techweb.rohm.com/knowledge/acdc/acdc_pwm/acdc_pwm06/8786

2022-07-16T19:36:46Z

https://techweb.rohm.com/knowledge/acdc/acdc_pwm/acdc_pwm06/8786

SwervingLemon: 172.70.206.213 pedantry

2022-07-09T19:33:31Z

172.70.206.213 pedantry

172.70.206.213: Reply

2022-07-09T00:58:05Z

172.71.98.49 at 21:45, 8 July 2022

2022-07-08T21:45:36Z

141.101.76.233: Re: "Your computer's power supply has switching H-bridge MOSFET transistors that sense and match the AC phase, not an ordinary diode rectifier."

2022-07-08T21:43:30Z

Re: "Your computer's power supply has switching H-bridge MOSFET transistors that sense and match the AC phase, not an ordinary diode rectifier."

172.70.211.52: Reply

2022-07-08T20:58:04Z

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 Long distance links, especially those between separate unsynchronized grids, use high voltage DC. There is a 2,000-mile link in China running at 1 MV.  [[User:Arachrah|Arachrah]] ([[User talk:Arachrah|talk]]) 11:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 :That's because at great distances, relatively high frequency AC loses a lot of ("active" = actually useful) power as ... reactive power, I think (didn't learn the terminology in English, unit seems right though). A typical grid has a lot of generators and load. A long distance connection results in a phase shift according to the transmission time (speed of light in medium x distance) in about the order of magnitude of the AC period (usually somewhere between 1/10 to 1/60 seconds) wastes a portion equal to the sine of the phase shift angle (up to 90° = all of it) as reactive power. DC isn't quite as easy to use but on long distances there is no power loss  to reactive power.  [[User:627235|627235]] ([[User talk:627235|talk]]) 12:25, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 Let's face it, the thing should be called an alternator. Of course that name's taken as a redundant word for (electrical) generator. [[User:627235|627235]] ([[User talk:627235|talk]]) 12:26, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 24 August 2022
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	::: The comic is about "meta alternating" pairs of consumer inverters and rectifiers, not idealized chains of the same circuit. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213\|172.70.206.213]] 00:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)		::: The comic is about "meta alternating" pairs of consumer inverters and rectifiers, not idealized chains of the same circuit. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213\|172.70.206.213]] 00:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
	:::: The title text is about pairing two inverters and having them cancel each other out. It's relevant. [[User:SwervingLemon\|SwervingLemon]] ([[User talk:SwervingLemon\|talk]]) 19:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)		:::: The title text is about pairing two inverters and having them cancel each other out. It's relevant. [[User:SwervingLemon\|SwervingLemon]] ([[User talk:SwervingLemon\|talk]]) 19:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	And another one marked "Done" (by removing the Incomplete bit) and then the same editor making further changes (and then correct their change). Wrong way round, mate! Make sure it's correct, make changes you really feel need making and then subsequentally (ideally after checking your addition) make your bold proclaimation of it being Complete. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.13\|172.70.85.13]] 22:01, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 :: The mains input bridge rectifier in every PSU I've seen is just a normal 4 diode bridge, it's at worst a 2% loss.  The output from the transformer probably has synchronous rectification due to the much lower voltage, but not an H-bridge, instead a center-tapped transformer winding and 2 MOSFETs.  The only H-bridge in a PSU is the inverter. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.233|141.101.76.233]] 21:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 ::: Please see https://www.physics-and-radio-electronics.com/electronic-devices-and-circuits/rectifier/bridgerectifier.html "The maximum rectifier efficiency of a bridge rectifier is 81.2% which is same as the center tapped full wave rectifier." See also https://techweb.rohm.com/knowledge/acdc/acdc_pwm/acdc_pwm06/8786 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.183|162.158.166.183]] 19:36, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 I interpreted Randall imagining "inversion" as "reciprocal" (or maybe the inversion of a function) rather than physically turning something upside-down, since mathematical inversion is typically reversible... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.121|172.70.130.121]] 03:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 :Your computer's power supply has switching H-bridge MOSFET transistors that sense and match the AC phase, not an ordinary diode rectifier. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 23:25, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 :: The mains input bridge rectifier in every PSU I've seen is just a normal 4 diode bridge, it's at worst a 2% loss.  The output from the transformer probably has synchronous rectification due to the much lower voltage, but not an H-bridge, instead a center-tapped transformer winding and 2 MOSFETs.  The only H-bridge in a PSU is the inverter. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.233|141.101.76.233]] 21:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
-::: Please see https://techweb.rohm.com/knowledge/acdc/acdc_pwm/acdc_pwm06/8786 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.183|162.158.166.183]] 19:36, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
+::: Please see https://www.physics-and-radio-electronics.com/electronic-devices-and-circuits/rectifier/bridgerectifier.html "The maximum rectifier efficiency of a bridge rectifier is 81.2% which is same as the center tapped full wave rectifier." See also https://techweb.rohm.com/knowledge/acdc/acdc_pwm/acdc_pwm06/8786 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.166.183|162.158.166.183]] 19:36, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 I interpreted Randall imagining "inversion" as "reciprocal" (or maybe the inversion of a function) rather than physically turning something upside-down, since mathematical inversion is typically reversible... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.121|172.70.130.121]] 03:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 :Your computer's power supply has switching H-bridge MOSFET transistors that sense and match the AC phase, not an ordinary diode rectifier. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 23:25, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 :: The mains input bridge rectifier in every PSU I've seen is just a normal 4 diode bridge, it's at worst a 2% loss.  The output from the transformer probably has synchronous rectification due to the much lower voltage, but not an H-bridge, instead a center-tapped transformer winding and 2 MOSFETs.  The only H-bridge in a PSU is the inverter. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.233|141.101.76.233]] 21:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 I interpreted Randall imagining "inversion" as "reciprocal" (or maybe the inversion of a function) rather than physically turning something upside-down, since mathematical inversion is typically reversible... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.121|172.70.130.121]] 03:48, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 Let's face it, the thing should be called an alternator. Of course that name's taken as a redundant word for (electrical) generator. [[User:627235|627235]] ([[User talk:627235|talk]]) 12:26, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 It always bothered me that UPS battery backups take the wall AC and convert it to DC to charge the battery, but then have to turn it back to AC to send it to the computer, so the power supply can convert it to DC to run the thing. I picture some connector that goes directly from the UPS to the power supply so that if power is lost it can just pull 12V directly from the battery. [[User:Andyd273|Andyd273]] ([[User talk:Andyd273|talk]]) 12:47, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 34: / Line 35: @@
 :: How is it irrelevant?
 ::: The comic is about "meta alternating" pairs of consumer inverters and rectifiers, not idealized chains of the same circuit. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213|172.70.206.213]] 00:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:58, 9 July 2022
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	: Totally irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52\|172.70.211.52]] 20:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)		: Totally irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52\|172.70.211.52]] 20:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
	:: How is it irrelevant?		:: How is it irrelevant?
		+	::: The comic is about "meta alternating" pairs of consumer inverters and rectifiers, not idealized chains of the same circuit. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.213\|172.70.206.213]] 00:58, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:45, 8 July 2022
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	Two inverters can cancel each other out if they are the simplest type (a commutator, a.k.a. square wave inverter) and they happen to be synchronous. Expect glitches at the commutation points though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.125\|172.70.210.125]] 16:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)		Two inverters can cancel each other out if they are the simplest type (a commutator, a.k.a. square wave inverter) and they happen to be synchronous. Expect glitches at the commutation points though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.125\|172.70.210.125]] 16:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
	: Totally irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52\|172.70.211.52]] 20:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)		: Totally irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52\|172.70.211.52]] 20:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
		+	:: How is it irrelevant?

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:58, 8 July 2022
Line 30:		Line 30:

	Two inverters can cancel each other out if they are the simplest type (a commutator, a.k.a. square wave inverter) and they happen to be synchronous. Expect glitches at the commutation points though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.125\|172.70.210.125]] 16:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)		Two inverters can cancel each other out if they are the simplest type (a commutator, a.k.a. square wave inverter) and they happen to be synchronous. Expect glitches at the commutation points though! [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.125\|172.70.210.125]] 16:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
		+	: Totally irrelevant to the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52\|172.70.211.52]] 20:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)