Talk:2646: Minkowski Space - Revision history

172.69.214.39: Added viewpoint of a mathematician.

2023-12-20T17:33:43Z

Added viewpoint of a mathematician.

162.158.146.57: Cheeky response to a cheeky joke.

2022-07-26T05:33:19Z

Cheeky response to a cheeky joke.

172.70.211.90: reply

2022-07-24T06:03:44Z

MBas at 10:32, 20 July 2022

2022-07-20T10:32:57Z

MBas at 10:29, 20 July 2022

2022-07-20T10:29:19Z

Dansiman at 21:19, 18 July 2022

2022-07-18T21:19:10Z

15635176 at 15:30, 18 July 2022

2022-07-18T15:30:04Z

172.69.71.30 at 03:29, 18 July 2022

2022-07-18T03:29:01Z

172.69.71.30 at 03:28, 18 July 2022

2022-07-18T03:28:31Z

172.69.71.30 at 03:28, 18 July 2022

2022-07-18T03:28:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:33, 20 December 2023
Line 23:		Line 23:
	I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one cordinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap into Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for the given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language the reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed the goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that the distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completely different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)		I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one cordinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap into Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for the given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language the reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed the goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that the distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completely different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
	: I really wish I understood what you're trying to say. Is there a source which explains the distinction between Minkowski space and Minkowski spacetime you're trying to draw? Even 1-D Minkowski space is always taken to mean a 2-D spacetime, isn't it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90\|172.70.211.90]] 06:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)		: I really wish I understood what you're trying to say. Is there a source which explains the distinction between Minkowski space and Minkowski spacetime you're trying to draw? Even 1-D Minkowski space is always taken to mean a 2-D spacetime, isn't it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90\|172.70.211.90]] 06:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	As a mathematician, jumping to "Hilbert space" is a weird comment is a weird comment as there's multiple Hilbert spaces. In fact, any finite dimensional space is Hilbert (a fact that's taught in math undergrads at R1s). Even if take it to mean that it's infinite dimensional, there are infinitely many Hilbert spaces, so the only joke to infer is the one referring to number of dimensions.

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 : It's definitely not in the top ten all-time funniest ever, but there are probably more than a few academic physicists it got a grin out of. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.210.233|172.70.210.233]] 03:38, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 :: It's been a long time since I had any sort of dealing with Minkowski diagrams, but it definitely got me chuckling... I suppose you just have to appreciate Randall's particular slant. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.10|172.70.86.10]] 04:45, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 I don't think checking in to Hilbert's Hotel provides any comfort at all.  After all you are required to pack up your belongings and move to a new room a possibly infinite number of times, thus leaving you no chance to get any sleep. [[User:MAP|MAP]] ([[User talk:MAP|talk]]) 05:46, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:03, 24 July 2022
Line 21:		Line 21:

	I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one cordinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap into Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for the given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language the reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed the goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that the distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completely different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)		I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one cordinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap into Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for the given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language the reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed the goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that the distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completely different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
		+	: I really wish I understood what you're trying to say. Is there a source which explains the distinction between Minkowski space and Minkowski spacetime you're trying to draw? Even 1-D Minkowski space is always taken to mean a 2-D spacetime, isn't it? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90\|172.70.211.90]] 06:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:32, 20 July 2022
Line 20:		Line 20:
	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)		:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

−	I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one ~~corrdinate~~ with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap ~~onto~~ Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language~~. The~~ reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed ~~thew~~ goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for ~~completly~~ different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)	+	I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one cordinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap into Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for the given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language the reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed the goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that the distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completely different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:29, 20 July 2022
Line 19:		Line 19:
	At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)		At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)		:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	I disagree with the explanation! We are not living in the Minkowski space but in the Minkowski spacetime. This little detail lead into misunderstanding of the joke. In Minkowski space there is one corrdinate with different signature to others. We use this in relativistic physics for the time coordinate to explain many phenomenons in relativistic physics. But in this comics we swap onto Minkowski SPACE. It is even more obvious from pictures that strange deferomation happens when we are closer to the diagonal direction. We know this deformation on the spacetime diagram but this one displays whole ship in its spece-like character. So it is not trivial to do such a jump into Minkowski space and it changes the situation! On top of that the distance is usually invariant and indepenedent on reference frame for given geometry. So the last frame may be a bit strange becouse it looks like a false statement. But it makes sense if you think about it. If we think about "reference frame" in common comics language. The reference frame in comics language basically means mention of different frames we picture. And we changed thew goemetry between frames. So the geometry itself may cause that distance is independend on reference frame but the fact that we changed the geometry between frames causes that distance of both ships may depend on such a thing as reference frame. The joke is ingenious! But for completly different reasons that are presented in here.[[User:MBas\|MBas]] ([[User talk:MBas\|talk]]) 10:29, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 ::(And any given insertion of new residents needs only a single move at a time, no matter how many nested infinities of arrivals/transports/etc. So moving every now and then isn't so onerous, so long as housekeeping has an infinite number of staff to clean and prepare each new room each time, which they probably can with evenly distributed live-in staff alone.)
 ::That said, it seems to be more the ubiquity of Hilbert in mathematical constructs than a direct link, him seemingly having an infinite number of fingers in an infinite number of infinite-pies. Probably no loss. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.137|162.158.159.137]] 12:14, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 On position alone, "Closer?" could be Voice 1, "Reference" is Voice 2 (both from the cockpit) and "Tell" a new voice (from further behind, passenger/engineer?). Which matches (and adds to) the original dialogue, with Voice 2 being the experienced captain reacting to the more worried copilot/operator next to him, etc. Except that Voice 2 says "On my mark" but then their presumed "Mark" emits elsewhere (to leave room for the actual click, which I'd expect Voice 1 to make). I have sympathy with Randall, if he actually wanted to put this story down in accurate visuals and yet ''positionally'' keep to conventions (having a top-down reading experience) he'd need to either wrap speech-lines around the nose of the craft or (...might need some intermediate frame showing some 'acrobatic' drawing...) have the evading craft flip inverted for the current second frame. Could get more complex than 'necessary', just to leave us with less of a voice-ID mystery where it probably matters very little in the long run. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.155|172.70.162.155]] 12:51, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 Hilbert space sounds like the Infinite Probability Drive. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.16|108.162.238.16]] 13:46, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
 :that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:29, 18 July 2022
Line 16:		Line 16:

	At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)		At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
−	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)	+	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought. At least I wasnt the only one lol [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:28, 18 July 2022
Line 16:		Line 16:

	At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)		At first I wondered if this was a reference to the Wolf 359 podcast ([https://wolf359.fm/]), which has a couple of characters named Minkowski and Hilbert. But it's likely that those names are references to these different kinds of space. [[User:ShifterCat\|ShifterCat]] ([[User talk:ShifterCat\|talk]]) 16:30, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
−	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought	+	:that was what I thought too, then I had the same train of thought [[Special:Contributions/172.69.71.30\|172.69.71.30]] 03:28, 18 July 2022 (UTC)