Talk:2668: Artemis Quote - Revision history

162.158.222.239 at 16:11, 12 October 2022

2022-10-12T16:11:05Z

172.71.178.187 at 20:21, 7 September 2022

2022-09-07T20:21:59Z

172.70.207.8: Expand

2022-09-07T17:46:55Z

Expand

172.69.33.11: Reply

2022-09-07T17:44:43Z

172.70.85.163 at 17:08, 7 September 2022

2022-09-07T17:08:08Z

172.70.85.33 at 10:10, 7 September 2022

2022-09-07T10:10:55Z

MarquisOfCarrabass at 05:24, 7 September 2022

2022-09-07T05:24:09Z

172.70.86.4 at 22:07, 6 September 2022

2022-09-06T22:07:20Z

Seebert at 21:49, 6 September 2022

2022-09-06T21:49:52Z

Mrienstra at 20:53, 6 September 2022

2022-09-06T20:53:01Z

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	The first quote is self-referential (and confuses people, when quoted). The second plays unto the myth that the moon landing was staged. It is nice to be able to choose words, which are cited. A great opportunity to confuse people. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.143\|172.68.110.143]] 21:09, 5 September 2022 (UTC)		The first quote is self-referential (and confuses people, when quoted). The second plays unto the myth that the moon landing was staged. It is nice to be able to choose words, which are cited. A great opportunity to confuse people. --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.143\|172.68.110.143]] 21:09, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	:I think the second might play unto the quote from neil armstrong, where instead of dropping the 'a', it drops a digit (ex. "13" -> "1"), rather than some conspiracy theory [[Special:Contributions/162.158.222.239\|162.158.222.239]] 16:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

	To those of you wondering [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=294177&oldid=294176 why, "<tt>mankind" ,[emphasis</tt>," currently appears in the wikitext,] I would direct you to [[explain xkcd talk:Editor FAQ#Punctuation inside quotes and parentheses]]. I am discouraged by such pettiness. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59\|172.70.214.59]] 21:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)		To those of you wondering [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=294177&oldid=294176 why, "<tt>mankind" ,[emphasis</tt>," currently appears in the wikitext,] I would direct you to [[explain xkcd talk:Editor FAQ#Punctuation inside quotes and parentheses]]. I am discouraged by such pettiness. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59\|172.70.214.59]] 21:26, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:21, 7 September 2022
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	"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
	: It's hard for me to understand why you are willing to complain on talk about deletions without restoring the part(s) of the deletions you're complaining about. Am I correct in gathering from your style that this is probably at least the fifth time you've done so? If so, please consider commenting on the content instead of the contributors. Also, the idea that anyone has any "skin in the game" for unattributed collaboration would be funny if it wasn't preposterous. "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.11\|172.69.33.11]] 17:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		: It's hard for me to understand why you are willing to complain on talk about deletions without restoring the part(s) of the deletions you're complaining about. Am I correct in gathering from your style that this is probably at least the fifth time you've done so? If so, please consider commenting on the content instead of the contributors. Also, the idea that anyone has any "skin in the game" for unattributed collaboration would be funny if it wasn't preposterous. "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.11\|172.69.33.11]] 17:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	::Hi. I have restored some things (no more than once, except maybe in key bits made a rewrite/reposition to satisfy some unknown individual's peculiar editorial tastes). And promptly seen them vanish again (and reappear again, and vanish again) still without obvious reason. For this reason, I came to Talk rather than compounding the problem in the article. Most likely seeing things re-vanish anyway, helping nobody and perpetuating the problem.
		+	::I have commented on contributions. I have said I don't know why <whatever> was removed, and that I thought it relevent. Just to see a profunctory reversal that in turn does not satisfactorarily address these things. And now I comment here. Editing is part of the process, I accept. I change things all the time myself. But if it's not spam or vandalism I don't just say it is irrelevent and remove it, I seek to improve it (whether or not the origibal author(s) agree). If it seems to need grossly cutting down then perhaps bring the 'offending' material down into the Discussion area.
		+	::Given the sudden spate of excisements, BTW, I'm guessing someone is new and very keen. Not a bad thing, and indeed welcome. But I've seen a lot of editting out/in/out/in/out recently (maybe some keen new editor-back-in as well, then?) that is much more prevalent than usual. Perhaps consider a deep breath or two before leaping in (for the second, third... maybe even the fifth time?)... Friendly suggestion. From someone who would have been just as happy to stay on the sidelines making minor tweaks to punctuation; except that it now looked like it needed a passing comment. (Rather than an edit-war).
		+	::If I wanted to be more authoritative, I'd at least register a username, but others (also IPs, mostly) may also be taking umbrage and/or sides, from many of the changes I've seen recently, before and after my own poking in of the nose. Just an observation. Can't speak for (or against) everyone else here
		+	::...Having attempted to address everything, I may now revert to my usual quiet self again. Shalom. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.187\|172.71.178.187]] 20:21, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:46, 7 September 2022
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	"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
−	: It's hard for me to understand why you are willing to complain on talk without restoring the part(s) of the deletions you're complaining about. Am I correct in gathering from your style that this is probably at least the fifth time you've done so? If so, please consider commenting on the content instead of the contributors. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.11\|172.69.33.11]] 17:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)	+	: It's hard for me to understand why you are willing to complain on talk about deletions without restoring the part(s) of the deletions you're complaining about. Am I correct in gathering from your style that this is probably at least the fifth time you've done so? If so, please consider commenting on the content instead of the contributors. Also, the idea that anyone has any "skin in the game" for unattributed collaboration would be funny if it wasn't preposterous. "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here." [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.11\|172.69.33.11]] 17:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:44, 7 September 2022
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	"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	: It's hard for me to understand why you are willing to complain on talk without restoring the part(s) of the deletions you're complaining about. Am I correct in gathering from your style that this is probably at least the fifth time you've done so? If so, please consider commenting on the content instead of the contributors. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.11\|172.69.33.11]] 17:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

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	:...but the socio-political atmosphere (or lack thereof) might change a lot before this question arises, and gets solved in this manner. A temporary "disaster cairn" erected in haste might just end up being thereafter left undisturbed, as much of a permanent memorial as any deliberate mausoleum would be initially intended to be, carefully roped off/honour-guarded to discourage future interference. Or rather than sending some (or all) of a person's ashes to the Moon, perhaps those deemed worthy enough (or rich enough in life to arrange in advance) could be bodily sent to the body, post-mortem, for their ultimate journey.		:...but the socio-political atmosphere (or lack thereof) might change a lot before this question arises, and gets solved in this manner. A temporary "disaster cairn" erected in haste might just end up being thereafter left undisturbed, as much of a permanent memorial as any deliberate mausoleum would be initially intended to be, carefully roped off/honour-guarded to discourage future interference. Or rather than sending some (or all) of a person's ashes to the Moon, perhaps those deemed worthy enough (or rich enough in life to arrange in advance) could be bodily sent to the body, post-mortem, for their ultimate journey.
	:I could even imagine a Martian grave preceding a Lunar one, due to the shifted logistics involved (yet with increased worries of souring the search for Martian life if you give a whole human gut-biome/etc the merest possibility of putting its own footprint on the planet). But only time can tell how either possibility may unfold. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.33\|172.70.85.33]] 10:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		:I could even imagine a Martian grave preceding a Lunar one, due to the shifted logistics involved (yet with increased worries of souring the search for Martian life if you give a whole human gut-biome/etc the merest possibility of putting its own footprint on the planet). But only time can tell how either possibility may unfold. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.33\|172.70.85.33]] 10:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	"(→‎Explanation: trim unevidenced speculation and recommendations for Randall w/no explanatory value)" ...that's a lot of editorialising, from one editor. There was maybe editing needed, but I think that is one helluva judgement call to make. (No skin in the game, myself, except for having corrected some typos/formatting as previously seen in the now removed sections.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.163\|172.70.85.163]] 17:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

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	Surely the ultimate honour is not to be the first human/woman/person of colour/dog-f#cking lunatic/whatever to 'set foot' on the Moon, but to be the first person to be BURIED there, thus making you a permanent fixture of the moon forever (since you aren't likely to decompose).		Surely the ultimate honour is not to be the first human/woman/person of colour/dog-f#cking lunatic/whatever to 'set foot' on the Moon, but to be the first person to be BURIED there, thus making you a permanent fixture of the moon forever (since you aren't likely to decompose).
	[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass\|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass\|talk]]) 05:24, 7 September 2022 (UTC)		[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass\|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass\|talk]]) 05:24, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	:If buried (deliberately, rather than merely irretrievably/unreachably) it'd be against any "no man left behind" mentality. I think an Artemis mission would try to bring back any victim of a fatality on principle (and frown upon a 'living will' desire by an astronaut, perhaps indicating they're psychologically not utterly committed to completing their mission).
		+	:Perhaps it counts if cached under a pile of rocks until the next viable recovery mission recovers them (and any 'survivor' who did this but then had no way to return themselves).
		+	:Maybe a descent accident (or intent-to-ascend incident) might make the space equivalent of a shipwreck/war-grave self-memorialising site, but it wouldn't be a matter of burial (unless it involved extreme lithobraking!) and any recovery mission sent from/on behalf of Earth would again be unlikely to bury the deceased or indiscriminately shovel dirt over the wreckage.
		+	:(I'm using US sensibilities to this issue. I'm sure that it might change once more nationalities get involved. I'm not saying that in other circumstances it'd be an automatic "If I should die, think only this of me: That there's some corner of a lunar crater That is for ever Zlobenia." But it'd depend on many contemporary and perhaps political elements.)
		+	:Once (sufficiently) permanent Moon-habitat is set up, perhaps then any fatalities there amongst the long-term residents become viable candidates for permanent burial (rather than memorialising). Especially if there's local recovery possible (or a medical death) but no option to ship 'home' (the colony is left isolated due to various imaginable problems 'back home', before or after they're even capable of sufficient self-supplying).
		+	:Still uneasy (currently) about those who would travel to the Moon with any intent to be buried there. They might precipitate the need and/or arrive knowing of a terminal condition that will overtake them, and both issues introduce problems to those who go without any such personal intent.
		+	:It'll be a while before (all else being equal) an undeniable candidate for permanent and deliberate interment would become obvious. An honour saved for a particularly distinguished presence, perhaps. Possibly even reserved for the first lunar colonist to die (uncontroversially) of old age, or something. Now ''that's'' the end (and after-the-end) that I'd be on board to be part of, either as primary participant or if it was ever my role to authorise.
		+	:...but the socio-political atmosphere (or lack thereof) might change a lot before this question arises, and gets solved in this manner. A temporary "disaster cairn" erected in haste might just end up being thereafter left undisturbed, as much of a permanent memorial as any deliberate mausoleum would be initially intended to be, carefully roped off/honour-guarded to discourage future interference. Or rather than sending some (or all) of a person's ashes to the Moon, perhaps those deemed worthy enough (or rich enough in life to arrange in advance) could be bodily sent to the body, post-mortem, for their ultimate journey.
		+	:I could even imagine a Martian grave preceding a Lunar one, due to the shifted logistics involved (yet with increased worries of souring the search for Martian life if you give a whole human gut-biome/etc the merest possibility of putting its own footprint on the planet). But only time can tell how either possibility may unfold. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.33\|172.70.85.33]] 10:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

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	What is the large round flat thing on the surface of the moon? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105\|172.70.230.105]] 20:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)		What is the large round flat thing on the surface of the moon? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105\|172.70.230.105]] 20:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
	:You mean the crater? Are you confused about the {{w\|Rim (crater)\|raised rim}}? I think that's all you're looking at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.4\|172.70.86.4]] 22:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)		:You mean the crater? Are you confused about the {{w\|Rim (crater)\|raised rim}}? I think that's all you're looking at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.4\|172.70.86.4]] 22:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
		+
		+	Surely the ultimate honour is not to be the first human/woman/person of colour/dog-f#cking lunatic/whatever to 'set foot' on the Moon, but to be the first person to be BURIED there, thus making you a permanent fixture of the moon forever (since you aren't likely to decompose).
		+	[[User:MarquisOfCarrabass\|MarquisOfCarrabass]] ([[User talk:MarquisOfCarrabass\|talk]]) 05:24, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

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	:But then some people say "I could of", so there are worse misarticulations out there... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.133\|172.70.85.133]] 19:47, 6 September 2022 (UTC)		:But then some people say "I could of", so there are worse misarticulations out there... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.133\|172.70.85.133]] 19:47, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
	What is the large round flat thing on the surface of the moon? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105\|172.70.230.105]] 20:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)		What is the large round flat thing on the surface of the moon? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.105\|172.70.230.105]] 20:30, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	:You mean the crater? Are you confused about the {{w\|Rim (crater)\|raised rim}}? I think that's all you're looking at. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.4\|172.70.86.4]] 22:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 ::I hope they do a couple cartwheels before saying anything. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.206.163|172.70.206.163]] 03:09, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 ::: Endorsed: "two small cartwheels for women of color; two giant tumblings for people!" [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.59|172.70.214.59]] 05:07, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 The quote in the title text is factually true, adding to the confusion it would cause, as it does not actually claim that the Artemis astronaut is the first human to set foot on the Moon, only that it is a great honor to be the first. [[User:Bugstomper|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper|talk]]) 22:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 20: / Line 21: @@
 Questions: Has a woman ever been to the moon, and is NASA planning to choose a woman for the new mission? It wouldn't surprise me if they were planning to send a woman this time around for PC points. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.128|172.70.91.128]] 23:13, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 :Yes, I believe Artemis has announced that they intend to let a woman of color be the 13th on the Moon, but I'm not up to date on the official press releases. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.126|172.70.211.126]] 23:20, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
-::I'm Hoping it will be an African-American woman chosen specifically as commander for identity purposes, who says "It's Great to be Black on the Moon!" [Obref Netflix _Space Force_][[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 23:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
+::I'm Hoping it will be an African-American woman chosen specifically as commander for identity purposes, who says "It's Good to be Black on the Moon!" [Obref Netflix _Space Force_][URL:https://youtu.be/F4I0kfrkTMc][[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 23:23, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
 :[Written before two other replies, above, appeared... One maybe answering an issue I raise below about the 'twofer'...] One of the main 'selling points' has been that the {{w|Artemis 3|first landing mission}} would definitely include a female crewmember, and a 'person of colour'. I've never been quite clear that this is to be the two identities of the two crew or if the intention is that there'll be one person fulfilling them both as a "twofer". So those worrying about (or applauding!) "PC points" are already happy to have their fears(/hopes) confirmed.
 :As a side note, I find the "PoC" term a horrible phrase, in my mind, but I'm British and I know that whatever problems we have with what terminology to use (BAME, etc) are quite different from the US. And there are near-universally undeniably worse terms to use. And "of colour" (or "color", in Leftpondian) doesn't seem to mean much except not being pure-Saxon. Apparently Meghan, Duchess of Sussex (neé Markle) is mixed-race (some even say "black") but I wouldn't have known (and, now knowing, am not at all bothered by the fact) given that tanning salons output a steady stream of darker-skinned anglo-saxon or even celtic-heritage locals.

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	The quote in the title text is factually true, adding to the confusion it would cause, as it does not actually claim that the Artemis astronaut is the first human to set foot on the Moon, only that it is a great honor to be the first. [[User:Bugstomper\|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper\|talk]]) 22:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)		The quote in the title text is factually true, adding to the confusion it would cause, as it does not actually claim that the Artemis astronaut is the first human to set foot on the Moon, only that it is a great honor to be the first. [[User:Bugstomper\|Bugstomper]] ([[User talk:Bugstomper\|talk]]) 22:34, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
		+	:On a related note: It could also be interpreted as inviting the listener to fill in the unspoken continuation of "It is an honor to be the first human to set foot on the moon. To be the 13th is..." -- "meh"? "arguably bad luck"? "asking to be the butt of a 'baker's dozen' joke"? [[User:Mrienstra\|Mrienstra]] ([[User talk:Mrienstra\|talk]]) 20:53, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

	It is not [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=prev&oldid=294204 feeding trolls] to acknowledge that these <s>trolls</s> people exist (and are exactly the kind of people Randall [[690: Semicontrolled Demolition\|likes to bait]]. But I won't 'unedit' that. (Someone else can either restore it or get rid of the silly compromise of being commented out with a confusingly 'inline' text-comment. Only by checking the precise version dif would it even make much sense.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.141\|172.71.178.141]] 22:57, 5 September 2022 (UTC)		It is not [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2668:_Artemis_Quote&diff=prev&oldid=294204 feeding trolls] to acknowledge that these <s>trolls</s> people exist (and are exactly the kind of people Randall [[690: Semicontrolled Demolition\|likes to bait]]. But I won't 'unedit' that. (Someone else can either restore it or get rid of the silly compromise of being commented out with a confusingly 'inline' text-comment. Only by checking the precise version dif would it even make much sense.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.141\|172.71.178.141]] 22:57, 5 September 2022 (UTC)