Talk:2814: Perseids Pronunciation - Revision history

NiceGuy1 at 04:04, 26 August 2023

2023-08-26T04:04:36Z

172.70.90.90 at 21:20, 24 August 2023

2023-08-24T21:20:10Z

NiceGuy1 at 20:17, 24 August 2023

2023-08-24T20:17:22Z

NiceGuy1 at 20:05, 24 August 2023

2023-08-24T20:05:33Z

NiceGuy1 at 20:02, 24 August 2023

2023-08-24T20:02:49Z

162.158.94.123: justifying edit

2023-08-23T05:42:39Z

justifying edit

162.158.94.100: reply to NiceGuy1 re: Percies Purps etc.

2023-08-21T07:54:59Z

reply to NiceGuy1 re: Percies Purps etc.

172.69.79.157 at 20:04, 20 August 2023

2023-08-20T20:04:27Z

NiceGuy1 at 18:56, 20 August 2023

2023-08-20T18:56:07Z

NiceGuy1 at 18:54, 20 August 2023

2023-08-20T18:54:52Z

@@ Line 66: / Line 66: @@
 ::::::: Except this isn't "my worldview", it is the correct answer. You don't seem to realize how significant this is. Yes. I'm very definite about this, that's the point. Because it is fact. I cannot stress this enough. Honestly, I'm fine with leaving the wrong answer in - I always do, except usually the wrong answer is only unlikely - as long as the correct answer is there too, and it's not. The correct answer should be the most prominent. The thing is, as I've been saying, there's no possibility this time. It is so impossible, it shouldn't be there, at all. Better to leave it out than spread this confusion any further. Here's the thing: I am the MOST "take a step back", lateral opinion person you will ever encounter, bar none. I find myself more able to see all sides and points of view than anybody, it's like a superpower, I pride myself on it. When people see things in black & white, I spot the greys. So understand just how significant it is that I am expressing THIS level of certainty, how absolutely impossible it is for 4 terms to be right. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 20:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 ::::::::By my count, "select few people" who insist on 4 1-word terms outnumber (however you count them) just the ''one'' person who is definite on it being 2 2-word terms. I don't mind giving both options, on the off-chance, but I still think your reasoning is inferior and less justifiable. Are you wrong? Probably, but I've got nothing against being in error (the gods know I've been wrong on the odd occasion), just the dogmatic lone-wolf attitude and rather unconvincing magniminity in finally making the concession that was first given ''from the 'other side' of the argument''... I won't respond to the 'reasoning', below, because sucficient counter-arguments already exist and there's no need to repeat them. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.90|172.70.90.90]] 21:20, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::: Two reasons for why it's 4 words:

@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 :::::::: Interesting how a select few people too blind to see past the 4-word idea are trying to insist I leave room to consider the wrong idea that Randall may have meant this as 4 terms, but you can't allow any room for the correct explanation? That's not how it works on this site. When there's more than one plausible explanation, we list them all, even when they're unlikely. (Which is part of what makes this significant, the 4 words explanation is THAT MUCH not possible, that it shouldn't even be listed as a possibility. However, '''''_I_''''' would be open minded to a compromise. Leaving out the correct explanation is not an option, though. I'd leave it alone as long as the correct explanation was in there, I always do). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 20:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 ::::::: Except this isn't "my worldview", it is the correct answer. You don't seem to realize how significant this is. Yes. I'm very definite about this, that's the point. Because it is fact. I cannot stress this enough. Honestly, I'm fine with leaving the wrong answer in - I always do, except usually the wrong answer is only unlikely - as long as the correct answer is there too, and it's not. The correct answer should be the most prominent. The thing is, as I've been saying, there's no possibility this time. It is so impossible, it shouldn't be there, at all. Better to leave it out than spread this confusion any further. Here's the thing: I am the MOST "take a step back", lateral opinion person you will ever encounter, bar none. I find myself more able to see all sides and points of view than anybody, it's like a superpower, I pride myself on it. When people see things in black & white, I spot the greys. So understand just how significant it is that I am expressing THIS level of certainty, how absolutely impossible it is for 4 terms to be right. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 20:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::: Two reasons for why it's 4 words:

@@ Line 76: / Line 76: @@
 :::::: "try saying "Perseids" back-to-back with each two word pair, back and forth, quickly, you should see how they line up." - lines up fine with PERCIES and PEPSIDS, PURPS is a bit of an extreme contraction of PERSEIDS, and PEEPS is a very unlikely contraction of it which you might arrive at if you said "Perseids" twenty times as fast as possible and then speed up.
 :::::: Please be a nice guy and accept that your take is the odd one here. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.100|162.158.94.100]] 07:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-::::::: "PEWPEWPEWS" is just how that cartoon thing goes, no spaces is common, and it would ruin these two. "PER-SAY-SAYS" was before he completely abandoned the pronunciation guide format (Again, note how "Percies" should be "per-CIES" if he was still doing that). So, no, neither are counterexamples. "Perky-ids" he's starting to abandon the pronunciation guide. I might even posit it's there for different reasons, to isolate "Perky" out of the complete entry. So, not a counterexample either. The ONLY way I've heard "Perseids" said, it's the first one in the comic, the "i" is NOT an "ee" sound, "id" is always pronounced like "did". No, it does NOT line up with "Percies" and "Pepsids", because those are 2 syllables and "Perseids" is 3 (do you not know how to actually SAY Perseids? It's in this comic! The first first pronunciation!). Match 2-syllables to 2-syllables and you're comparing "Percies" with "Perce-" - essentially "Percy" - which would be pronounced the same but adding the S, and "Pepsids" with "Perce-", not far off. Being a different number of syllables is the opposite of "lining up". "Extreme" and "unlikely", that's how you know they're not trying to be that. They are PARTS of an entry, not the whole.
+::::::: "PEWPEWPEWS" is just how that cartoon onomatopoeia goes, no spaces is common, and it would ruin these two. "PER-SAY-SAYS" was before he completely abandoned the pronunciation guide format (Again, note how "Percies" should be "per-CIES" if he was still doing that). So, no, neither are counterexamples. "Perky-ids" he's starting to abandon the pronunciation guide. I might even posit it's there for different reasons, to isolate "Perky" out of the complete entry. So, not a counterexample either. The ONLY way I've heard "Perseids" said, it's the first one in the comic, the "i" is NOT an "ee" sound, "id" is always pronounced like "did". No, it does NOT line up with "Percies" and "Pepsids", because those are 2 syllables and "Perseids" is 3 (do you not know how to actually SAY Perseids? It's in this comic! The first first pronunciation!). Match 2-syllables to 2-syllables and you're comparing "Percies" with "Perce-" - essentially "Percy" - which would be pronounced the same but adding the S, and "Pepsids" with "Perce-", not far off. Being a different number of syllables is the opposite of "lining up". "Extreme" and "unlikely", that's how you know they're not trying to be that. They are PARTS of an entry, not the whole.
 :::::::And finally, I AM a nice guy, :) I didn't choose this name lightly, which is why I'm trying to teach something here. I'm actually the best at seeing all sides, seeing the merits and arguments for all sides, and this one died. Also, the extreme lack of nicknames make it hard to tell (and suggests a lack of conviction), but the impression is that only like 3 of you are taking this side. My side just isn't speaking up - likely that the people who agree with me don't comment, or realize they can, or don't want to take part in an argument. And even if I WAS alone, being odd is irrelevant anyway, what actually matters is the truth, that I'm right. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 20:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 76: / Line 76: @@
 :::::: "try saying "Perseids" back-to-back with each two word pair, back and forth, quickly, you should see how they line up." - lines up fine with PERCIES and PEPSIDS, PURPS is a bit of an extreme contraction of PERSEIDS, and PEEPS is a very unlikely contraction of it which you might arrive at if you said "Perseids" twenty times as fast as possible and then speed up.
 :::::: Please be a nice guy and accept that your take is the odd one here. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.100|162.158.94.100]] 07:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-::::::: "PEWPEWPEWS" is just how that cartoon thing goes, no spaces is common, and it would ruin these two. "PER-SAY-SAYS" was before he completely abandoned the pronunciation guide format (Again, note how "Percies" should be "per-CIES" if he was still doing that). So, no, neither are counterexamples. "Perky-ids" he's starting to abandon the pronunciation guide, in fact it's the ONLY hyphen in the Definitely Wrong category. I might even posit it's there for different reasons, to isolate "Perky" out of the complete entry. So, not a counterexample either. The ONLY way I've heard "Perseids" said, it's the first one in the comic, the "i" is NOT an "ee" sound, "id" is always pronounced like "did". No, it does NOT line up with "Percies" and "Pepsids", because those are 2 syllables and "Perseids" is 3 (do you not know how to actually SAY Perseids? It's in this comic! The first first pronunciation!). Match 2-syllables to 2-syllables and you're comparing "Percies" with "Perce-" - essentially "Percy" - which would be pronounced the same but adding the S, and "Pepsids" with "Perce-", not far off. Being a different number of syllables is the opposite of "lining up". "Extreme" and "unlikely", that's how you know they're not trying to be that. They are PARTS of an entry, not the whole.
+::::::: "PEWPEWPEWS" is just how that cartoon thing goes, no spaces is common, and it would ruin these two. "PER-SAY-SAYS" was before he completely abandoned the pronunciation guide format (Again, note how "Percies" should be "per-CIES" if he was still doing that). So, no, neither are counterexamples. "Perky-ids" he's starting to abandon the pronunciation guide. I might even posit it's there for different reasons, to isolate "Perky" out of the complete entry. So, not a counterexample either. The ONLY way I've heard "Perseids" said, it's the first one in the comic, the "i" is NOT an "ee" sound, "id" is always pronounced like "did". No, it does NOT line up with "Percies" and "Pepsids", because those are 2 syllables and "Perseids" is 3 (do you not know how to actually SAY Perseids? It's in this comic! The first first pronunciation!). Match 2-syllables to 2-syllables and you're comparing "Percies" with "Perce-" - essentially "Percy" - which would be pronounced the same but adding the S, and "Pepsids" with "Perce-", not far off. Being a different number of syllables is the opposite of "lining up". "Extreme" and "unlikely", that's how you know they're not trying to be that. They are PARTS of an entry, not the whole.
 :::::::And finally, I AM a nice guy, :) I didn't choose this name lightly, which is why I'm trying to teach something here. I'm actually the best at seeing all sides, seeing the merits and arguments for all sides, and this one died. Also, the extreme lack of nicknames make it hard to tell (and suggests a lack of conviction), but the impression is that only like 3 of you are taking this side. My side just isn't speaking up - likely that the people who agree with me don't comment, or realize they can, or don't want to take part in an argument. And even if I WAS alone, being odd is irrelevant anyway, what actually matters is the truth, that I'm right. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 20:02, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 ::::::: 3) the simple table is the more pleasing, easier to read layout.
 ::::::: [[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.123|162.158.94.123]] 05:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::: Two reasons for why it's 4 words:
@@ Line 73: / Line 76: @@
 :::::: "try saying "Perseids" back-to-back with each two word pair, back and forth, quickly, you should see how they line up." - lines up fine with PERCIES and PEPSIDS, PURPS is a bit of an extreme contraction of PERSEIDS, and PEEPS is a very unlikely contraction of it which you might arrive at if you said "Perseids" twenty times as fast as possible and then speed up.
 :::::: Please be a nice guy and accept that your take is the odd one here. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.94.100|162.158.94.100]] 07:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
 I think the "Pepsids Peeps" is a reference to the Pepsi x Peeps soda that got released a few months ago—the first word could be a cross between PEPSI and perseiDS. Presumably, they are very sugary meteors. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.46|172.68.150.46]] 12:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 57: / Line 57: @@
 ::::: By "no room for debate here", I meant there's no potential for you guys to be right, sorry. There is no question, there is no chance. I mean, I could see "Percies" and "Pepsids" acting alone, being extra casual by dropping syllables (like calling "Perceus" "Percies" for short), but that leaves "Purps" and "Peeps" as orphans, there is simply not enough to them to pretend they could replace "Perseids"). The "too many Ps" is alliteration, because people enjoy when two or more words in a row start with the same letter, especially anyone immature/casual enough to say these instead of the real word. And the extra Ps makes the wrong versions extra wrong. Not putting dashes, putting separate words, enhances the alliteration. Just try saying "Perseids" properly and "Percies Purps" back-to-back, back and forth. Especially quickly. Same with "Pepsids Peeps". Other than adding the alliterative extra Ps, they DO sound very similar. "It wasn't, for some reason", I GAVE you the reason, because there ARE no short items! NO two entries share a line! Each entry is its own line! There is no ambiguity! The thing is, both sets of words are the same length, so it LOOKS like columns. He probably extra went with it because it looks visually appealing, that might be why there's so much space, to give him the room to make them line up while making sure there's enough space to properly separate the words, he over-compensated. And notice how the columns concept falls apart in that the higher entries extend far enough right to be OVER the potential second column. If this comic were done in text form, you'd have to fudge the columns, ALL the higher entries would have to be coded to take two columns, to allow the bottom entries to have two columns. Frankly, 3-syllables for 3-syllables is where the argument falls apart the most. They are two entries, not 4, sorry. This isn't the first time it has seemed like me and Randall seem to align in our thoughts, I always just get what he means, often in cases where some people here are not sure. This is one of them. I just wish someone else who sees the truth would speak up, because it seems like there are too many confused people here. Though 172.68.150.46 below makes a good point, I haven't heard of this "Pepsi x Peeps", but assuming it does actually exist, the timing and two letter difference makes this connection fairly guaranteed, and also supports what I'm saying about "Pepsids Peeps" being one entry. :) (Which indirectly supports "Percies Purps" being one, as then it would make no sense to have one line being 2 entries and the other being 1). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 18:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::::: <<''By "no room for debate here", I meant there's no potential for you guys to be right, sorry.''>> - You are very definite about this. But clearly very very wrong ''at least'' about there being no alternative to your worldview. I actually made a compromise anser, whch someone else nixed in favour of the "four words only" explanatiob, which I think was too definie, also, but there is more than enough "not two words" reason, for all of your adamant arguments in total unflinching support of "two words only". Perhaps take a step back (as everyone should) and allow for a bit of lateral opinion? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.157|172.69.79.157]] 20:04, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::: Two reasons for why it's 4 words:

@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 :::: [[Special:Contributions/162.158.95.157|162.158.95.157]] 07:42, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 ::::: He didn't hyphenate because he's adding alliteration, anyone who would be THIS silly and casual would enjoy the two words starting with a P, and the alliteration is enhanced by two SEPARATE words, no hyphens. Also, the hyphens are only even there because that's how you separate pronunciation syllables, those last TWO aren't even trying to be a pronunciation guide any more, just replacements. Notice, "Percies" should be "per-CEES", "Pepsids" as "pep-SIDS" if they were still being pronunciation guides, but they aren't. Your 2) falls apart by itself, "Perse-" is what phonetically starts with "er" and ends with "ee", as does "Percies", leaving "Purps" to replace "-ids" (which always rhymes with pluralizing "did", every time I hear it), so, no, "Perceids" does NOT end in an "ee" sound. Which means you made an argument for my side there, :) If you ignore the alliteration as its own thing, "urps" replaces "-ids", it's the S that phonetically lines up, plus the P sound sounding similar to the D sound. Admittedly, the "er" and "ids" start and end match between "Pepsids" and "Perseids", but it doesn't match due to the mismatched syllables. (I've been involved in a lot of karaoke song parodies, writing and seeing others write silly replacement lyrics, maybe THAT'S how I have a strong instinct for this. When getting silly, parodying, matching syllables is important to maintain the connection). Like I said above, try saying "Perseids" back-to-back with each two word pair, back and forth, quickly, you should see how they line up. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 18:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 I think the "Pepsids Peeps" is a reference to the Pepsi x Peeps soda that got released a few months ago—the first word could be a cross between PEPSI and perseiDS. Presumably, they are very sugary meteors. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.46|172.68.150.46]] 12:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 55: / Line 55: @@
 |}
 :::: ...but it wasn't, for whatever reason. ''Maybe'' for the same aesthetic reason as made it preferable to not run "long long" and "short short" (aligned) or each to their own line with loads of trailing deadspace. So, instead, what trouble we now have? Obscured by the ambiguity... (''Unintentional'' ambiguity? Or possibly even done with full consciousness of how readers might be nerdsniped. Wouldn't put that past him, either.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.79|141.101.99.79]] 08:10, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
-::::: By "no room for debate here", I meant there's no potential for you guys to be right, sorry. There is no question, there is no chance. I mean, I could see "Percies" and "Pepsids" acting alone, being extra casual by dropping syllables (like calling "Perceus" "Percies" for short), but that leaves "Purps" and "Peeps" as orphans, there is simply not enough to them to pretend they could replace "Perseids". The "too many Ps" is alliteration, because people enjoy when two or more words in a row start with the same letter, especially anyone immature/casual enough to say these instead of the real word. And the extra Ps makes the wrong versions extra wrong. Not putting dashes, putting separate words, enhances the alliteration. Just try saying "Perseids" properly and "Percies Purps" back-to-back, back and forth. Especially quickly. Same with "Pepsids Peeps". Other than adding the alliterative extra Ps, they DO sound very similar. "It wasn't, for some reason", I GAVE you the reason, because there ARE no short items! NO two entries share a line! Each entry is its own line! There is no ambiguity! The thing is, both sets of words are the same length, so it LOOKS like columns. He probably extra went with it because it looks visually appealing, that might be why there's so much space, to give him the room to make them line up while making sure there's enough space to properly separate the words, he over-compensated. And notice how the columns concept falls apart in that the higher entries extend far enough right to be OVER the potential second column. If this comic were done in text form, you'd have to fudge the columns, ALL the higher entries would have to be coded to take two columns, to allow the bottom entries to have two columns. Frankly, 3-syllables for 3-syllables is where the argument falls apart the most. They are two entries, not 4, sorry. This isn't the first time it has seemed like me and Randall seem to align in our thoughts, I always just get what he means, often in cases where some people here are not sure. This is one of them. I just wish someone else who sees the truth would speak up, because it seems like there are too many confused people here. Though 172.68.150.46 below makes a good point, I haven't heard of this "Pepsi x Peeps", but assuming it does actually exist, the timing and two letter difference makes this connection fairly guaranteed, and also supports what I'm saying about "Pepsids Peeps" being one entry. :) (Which indirectly supports "Percies Purps" being one, as then it would make no sense to have one line being 2 entries and the other being 1). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 18:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
+::::: By "no room for debate here", I meant there's no potential for you guys to be right, sorry. There is no question, there is no chance. I mean, I could see "Percies" and "Pepsids" acting alone, being extra casual by dropping syllables (like calling "Perceus" "Percies" for short), but that leaves "Purps" and "Peeps" as orphans, there is simply not enough to them to pretend they could replace "Perseids"). The "too many Ps" is alliteration, because people enjoy when two or more words in a row start with the same letter, especially anyone immature/casual enough to say these instead of the real word. And the extra Ps makes the wrong versions extra wrong. Not putting dashes, putting separate words, enhances the alliteration. Just try saying "Perseids" properly and "Percies Purps" back-to-back, back and forth. Especially quickly. Same with "Pepsids Peeps". Other than adding the alliterative extra Ps, they DO sound very similar. "It wasn't, for some reason", I GAVE you the reason, because there ARE no short items! NO two entries share a line! Each entry is its own line! There is no ambiguity! The thing is, both sets of words are the same length, so it LOOKS like columns. He probably extra went with it because it looks visually appealing, that might be why there's so much space, to give him the room to make them line up while making sure there's enough space to properly separate the words, he over-compensated. And notice how the columns concept falls apart in that the higher entries extend far enough right to be OVER the potential second column. If this comic were done in text form, you'd have to fudge the columns, ALL the higher entries would have to be coded to take two columns, to allow the bottom entries to have two columns. Frankly, 3-syllables for 3-syllables is where the argument falls apart the most. They are two entries, not 4, sorry. This isn't the first time it has seemed like me and Randall seem to align in our thoughts, I always just get what he means, often in cases where some people here are not sure. This is one of them. I just wish someone else who sees the truth would speak up, because it seems like there are too many confused people here. Though 172.68.150.46 below makes a good point, I haven't heard of this "Pepsi x Peeps", but assuming it does actually exist, the timing and two letter difference makes this connection fairly guaranteed, and also supports what I'm saying about "Pepsids Peeps" being one entry. :) (Which indirectly supports "Percies Purps" being one, as then it would make no sense to have one line being 2 entries and the other being 1). [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 18:48, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
 :::: Two reasons for why it's 4 words: