Talk:2829: Iceberg Efficiency - Revision history

Certified nqh at 23:18, 19 September 2023

2023-09-19T23:18:18Z

BunsenH at 16:19, 18 September 2023

2023-09-18T16:19:54Z

BunsenH at 16:06, 18 September 2023

2023-09-18T16:06:05Z

172.71.126.137: Undo revision 323917 by 172.71.126.136 (talk)

2023-09-18T12:45:54Z

Undo revision 323917 by 172.71.126.136 (talk)

172.71.126.136 at 12:45, 18 September 2023

2023-09-18T12:45:18Z

ProphetZarquon: Fascinating hydrophobic & hydrophilic varieties n (Also oil!)

2023-09-17T22:25:58Z

Fascinating hydrophobic & hydrophilic varieties n (Also oil!)

162.158.74.72 at 21:15, 17 September 2023

2023-09-17T21:15:05Z

These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For at 18:53, 17 September 2023

2023-09-17T18:53:57Z

These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For: Added Villianous references.

2023-09-17T18:53:27Z

Added Villianous references.

BunsenH at 04:15, 17 September 2023

2023-09-17T04:15:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:18, 19 September 2023
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	''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity] [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)		''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity] [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
	:Disappointed that that link doesn't bother to include the ''other'' Casino Royale (with David Niven, although the rather sane/'sorta-faithful' Barry Nelson version predated even that), which has in-universe insanity in spades (never mind actual production-insanity!), including an actual flying 'UFO' (used for kidnapping, not for torpedoing). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.72\|162.158.74.72]] 21:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)		:Disappointed that that link doesn't bother to include the ''other'' Casino Royale (with David Niven, although the rather sane/'sorta-faithful' Barry Nelson version predated even that), which has in-universe insanity in spades (never mind actual production-insanity!), including an actual flying 'UFO' (used for kidnapping, not for torpedoing). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.72\|162.158.74.72]] 21:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	i'm removing the incomplete tag on the transcript since nobody's touched it for 4 days [[User:Certified_nqh\|Me]]<sup>[[[285: Wikipedian Protester\|''citation needed'']]][[Category:Pages using the "citation needed" template]]</sup> 23:18, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

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 :::::Indeed, now that I look specifically for aerogel + water, I see that they're extremely useful for their selectivity as a filter material, with [https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0959652621038907-ga1.jpg hydrophilic & hydrophobic variants] being just the tip of the iceberg (so to speak). ([https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959652621038907]) I'm amazed that a material that's almost entirely hollow, can also be open-celled & yet still obstruct gas flow enough for an inch of it to stop an acetylene torch cold (so to speak!)! The ''only'' closed-cell aerogels I find reference to, use plastics to seal them up; the aerogels are just a lattice... This is directly at odds with my initial impression of aerogels as basically being a hard-set silica or carbon foam. Once set, it really is structurally more like a sponge than a foam? Thanks for the enlightenment; this info has led me to a bunch of fascinating reading on a subject I thought I'd grown bored of hearing about!
 :::::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
-::::::Thank you for that link; that's going to make for some interesting reading. There's a lot more to the field than I could have imagined. Without having gone to the source papers yet, I can make guesses about some of the chemistry: "if I wanted to use aerogels to selectively capture heavy metals, I'd do it with sulfide groups". I'll see how my guesses pan out. :-) I admit to some skepticism about trying to do some of the extractions on a large scale rather than a bench scale. Trying to do environmental remediation, as implied, would require ''large'' amounts of expensive and somewhat fragile gel material. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 16:06, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
+::::::Thank you for that link; that's going to make for some interesting reading. There's a lot more to the field than I could have imagined. Without having gone to the source papers yet, I can make guesses about some of the chemistry: "if I wanted to use aerogels to selectively capture heavy metals, I'd do it with sulfide groups". I'll see how my guesses pan out. :-) I admit to some skepticism about trying to do some of the extractions on a large scale rather than a bench scale. Trying to do environmental remediation, as implied, would require ''large'' amounts of expensive and somewhat fragile gel material.
 Why not filling the aerogel with hydrogen? You might save for torpedoes then. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 :::::Indeed, now that I look specifically for aerogel + water, I see that they're extremely useful for their selectivity as a filter material, with [https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0959652621038907-ga1.jpg hydrophilic & hydrophobic variants] being just the tip of the iceberg (so to speak). ([https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959652621038907]) I'm amazed that a material that's almost entirely hollow, can also be open-celled & yet still obstruct gas flow enough for an inch of it to stop an acetylene torch cold (so to speak!)! The ''only'' closed-cell aerogels I find reference to, use plastics to seal them up; the aerogels are just a lattice... This is directly at odds with my initial impression of aerogels as basically being a hard-set silica or carbon foam. Once set, it really is structurally more like a sponge than a foam? Thanks for the enlightenment; this info has led me to a bunch of fascinating reading on a subject I thought I'd grown bored of hearing about!
 :::::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 22:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 Why not filling the aerogel with hydrogen? You might save for torpedoes then. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

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 I did some calculations, based on the data that, at 0 degrees C and sea level, a cubic meter of either hydrogen or helium will lift 1 kilogramme (close enough) of mass, and the average Iceberg Alley iceberg has a mass of 100,000 tonnes. I worked out that, to lift that "average iceberg", one would need a cube of lifting gas 500 m (five average USA city blocks) per side. If this is correct, the challenge of fitting that cube of gas inside the average iceberg is (<i>ahem</i>) nontrivial. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.40|172.69.34.40]] 17:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 :How about if you used ''liquid'' helium, the same lift in a smaller volume? ''(/jk!)'' [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.62|172.71.242.62]] 18:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.

@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 I did some calculations, based on the data that, at 0 degrees C and sea level, a cubic meter of either hydrogen or helium will lift 1 kilogramme (close enough) of mass, and the average Iceberg Alley iceberg has a mass of 100,000 tonnes. I worked out that, to lift that "average iceberg", one would need a cube of lifting gas 500 m (five average USA city blocks) per side. If this is correct, the challenge of fitting that cube of gas inside the average iceberg is (<i>ahem</i>) nontrivial. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.34.40|172.69.34.40]] 17:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 :How about if you used ''liquid'' helium, the same lift in a smaller volume? ''(/jk!)'' [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.62|172.71.242.62]] 18:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
 The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 :::[[User:ProphetZarquon|ProphetZarquon]] ([[User talk:ProphetZarquon|talk]]) 02:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 ::::The structure of silica aerogels is a network of "strands" composed of tiny silica nodules. It's entirely open. They're good thermal insulators because the network disrupts convection and somewhat inhibits other gas movement. Back when aerogels were novel, when I was in grad school doing organometallic chem, we had a weekly presentation by one or two of us -- brainstorming our research + getting practise in presenting. I did one such talk about aerogels, mostly because they were Really Cool, but I tied it in to our own work by noting their potential for catalysis. The nifty thing about aerogels in that regard is that they're almost entirely "surface area": almost every atom/molecule is close to direct contact with the void volume. That makes for efficient use of a solid catalyst, which are often expensive... either making aerogel directly from them, or bonded to something like silica. [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 04:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 Why not filling the aerogel with hydrogen? You might save for torpedoes then. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 21:24, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:15, 17 September 2023
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	''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity] [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)		''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity] [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
		+	:Disappointed that that link doesn't bother to include the ''other'' Casino Royale (with David Niven, although the rather sane/'sorta-faithful' Barry Nelson version predated even that), which has in-universe insanity in spades (never mind actual production-insanity!), including an actual flying 'UFO' (used for kidnapping, not for torpedoing). [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.72\|162.158.74.72]] 21:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:53, 17 September 2023
Line 34:		Line 34:
	The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.		The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.

−	''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity]	+	''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity] [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 18:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:53, 17 September 2023
Line 33:		Line 33:

	The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.		The 'Lusitania' was sank by torpedoes fired from underwater.
		+
		+	''"This idea of producing a man-made flying iceberg for the sole purpose of endangering cruise liners, would likely be seen as preposterous"''. In fact, that would be an perfect plot for an upcoming 'James Bond' film, as an high percentage of the Villain's plots in the franchise are considered preposterous: [https://www.ranker.com/list/bond-villain-plans-ranked/mike-rothschild/ Every Bond Villain Plan, Ranked by Insanity]