Talk:2833: Lying - Revision history

172.69.79.226 at 12:00, 2 October 2023

2023-10-02T12:00:52Z

172.70.114.111 at 10:52, 2 October 2023

2023-10-02T10:52:56Z

172.70.91.206 at 09:19, 2 October 2023

2023-10-02T09:19:19Z

These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For: Confusion

2023-10-02T00:05:09Z

Confusion

172.71.94.81 at 18:29, 1 October 2023

2023-10-01T18:29:01Z

NiceGuy1: ,

2023-10-01T04:37:16Z

Tier666 at 17:32, 28 September 2023

2023-09-28T17:32:46Z

172.71.178.5 at 09:00, 28 September 2023

2023-09-28T09:00:56Z

172.71.178.13 at 07:44, 28 September 2023

2023-09-28T07:44:28Z

GreatWyrmGold at 22:47, 27 September 2023

2023-09-27T22:47:45Z

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−	those who have never played roblox flicker will think cueball is bad at the game. those who HAVE played roblox flicker will think he is the clown. (in flicker, the clown tries to get voted out)	+	those who have never played roblox flicker will think cueball is bad at the game. those who HAVE played roblox flicker will think he is the clown. (in flicker, the clown tries to get voted out) {{unsigned ip\|172.70.114.111\|10:52, 2 October 2023}}
		+	:Sounds very much like [https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Jester Jester] (or [https://mafiabot.fandom.com/wiki/Jester variations] according to system) also sometimes known as Joker, Martyr, etc. Or Pseudojesters that need to be lynched (unsuccessfully) to even ''gain'' a winnable role. Or various others that must attract/redirect/etc lynching (or cross-faction nightkills). Never seen roblox's version, but I presume there's a similar root to the gameplay, but could be using any of a number of terminologies for the roles, it all being so malleable to suit the scenario being 'played' and how complicated you (and your players) want it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.226\|172.69.79.226]] 12:00, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

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	:Well, one person introduced the idea of HD monitors, which another then contrasted with HD ''screens'', so it seems it was all HD (howsoever used) and the 'confusion' was from whether a separate display device was needed/required/desired/possible. As I read it.		:Well, one person introduced the idea of HD monitors, which another then contrasted with HD ''screens'', so it seems it was all HD (howsoever used) and the 'confusion' was from whether a separate display device was needed/required/desired/possible. As I read it.
	:At least some of the actual issue was not resolution-based, at the point of rendering, but of relative (re)scaling of image and text data due to disparity, whatever the pixel densities or ranges the whole thing was shoved out through. (Though if the downscale-forced text ended up at a point-size too low to resolve, shoving it through a too-low screen 'resolution', whatever the physical size of the individual effective-pixels, would render it unreadable.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.206\|172.70.91.206]] 09:19, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		:At least some of the actual issue was not resolution-based, at the point of rendering, but of relative (re)scaling of image and text data due to disparity, whatever the pixel densities or ranges the whole thing was shoved out through. (Though if the downscale-forced text ended up at a point-size too low to resolve, shoving it through a too-low screen 'resolution', whatever the physical size of the individual effective-pixels, would render it unreadable.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.206\|172.70.91.206]] 09:19, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	those who have never played roblox flicker will think cueball is bad at the game. those who HAVE played roblox flicker will think he is the clown. (in flicker, the clown tries to get voted out)

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	I'm not getting the discussion near the top of this comment section. Resolution (HD) does not relate to screen size, necessarily. If you have a 15-foot by 10 foot screen and you display a 800x400 pixel image on it, it would be large, but not HD. Consequently, a 8000x4000 pixel image displayed on a 6 inch x 3 inch phone would still be HD, although hard to appreciate. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 00:05, 2 October 2023 (UTC)		I'm not getting the discussion near the top of this comment section. Resolution (HD) does not relate to screen size, necessarily. If you have a 15-foot by 10 foot screen and you display a 800x400 pixel image on it, it would be large, but not HD. Consequently, a 8000x4000 pixel image displayed on a 6 inch x 3 inch phone would still be HD, although hard to appreciate. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 00:05, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
		+	:Well, one person introduced the idea of HD monitors, which another then contrasted with HD ''screens'', so it seems it was all HD (howsoever used) and the 'confusion' was from whether a separate display device was needed/required/desired/possible. As I read it.
		+	:At least some of the actual issue was not resolution-based, at the point of rendering, but of relative (re)scaling of image and text data due to disparity, whatever the pixel densities or ranges the whole thing was shoved out through. (Though if the downscale-forced text ended up at a point-size too low to resolve, shoving it through a too-low screen 'resolution', whatever the physical size of the individual effective-pixels, would render it unreadable.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.206\|172.70.91.206]] 09:19, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

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	:As for Mafia (perhaps Facebook's Mafia Wars is based on this) it's a loose conglomeration of moderated game where players are assigned sides (good-guys and bad-guys, and possibly 'other-guy(s)') and gameplay abilities (or be 'vanilla') for use to aid their own side's (or self's) eventual achievement of a win through chat, logical deduction and assistance/interference of others (intentionally or in error). Such games can be thematic, so that instead of a small cast of city-dwellers having to deal with (or act as) a hidden mafia cell it could be (e.g.) a medieval village being harrassed by werewolves. Setting, and composition, are up to the person running the game. As is the manner of it being played (in person, via forum, via live-chat, etc). As I understand it, Among Us is basically one particular implementation of this, given its own quirks, and embedded in a dedicated game-engine to manage this (perhaps doing everything a human moderator would do, ensuring gameplay runs smoothly and all interactions happen as interactions need to (allowing private 'scumchat' messaging between any of the bad-guys who need to coordinate their underhanded activities/agree their combined scum-activities, giving those who must discover information the necessary 'facts', allowing actions to act (or not act!) as much as they are permitted to (or not!). - But I've never played it, so all I know is that it is said to be ''inspired'' by Mafia-like games...		:As for Mafia (perhaps Facebook's Mafia Wars is based on this) it's a loose conglomeration of moderated game where players are assigned sides (good-guys and bad-guys, and possibly 'other-guy(s)') and gameplay abilities (or be 'vanilla') for use to aid their own side's (or self's) eventual achievement of a win through chat, logical deduction and assistance/interference of others (intentionally or in error). Such games can be thematic, so that instead of a small cast of city-dwellers having to deal with (or act as) a hidden mafia cell it could be (e.g.) a medieval village being harrassed by werewolves. Setting, and composition, are up to the person running the game. As is the manner of it being played (in person, via forum, via live-chat, etc). As I understand it, Among Us is basically one particular implementation of this, given its own quirks, and embedded in a dedicated game-engine to manage this (perhaps doing everything a human moderator would do, ensuring gameplay runs smoothly and all interactions happen as interactions need to (allowing private 'scumchat' messaging between any of the bad-guys who need to coordinate their underhanded activities/agree their combined scum-activities, giving those who must discover information the necessary 'facts', allowing actions to act (or not act!) as much as they are permitted to (or not!). - But I've never played it, so all I know is that it is said to be ''inspired'' by Mafia-like games...
	:Otherwise, the basic form (or something far more complicated!) can be found being played in all sorts of forms, all over the place. I could even see a version being played ''within this very wiki'', if someone was willing to mod a game and work out the logistics (though it'd be a bad use of the wiki editing framework, and would need some external 'private backchannel' method to send necessary hidden info to/between players/mod). But perhaps check any forum you're already a member of, see if they have a 'games' sub-board (even a 'mafia' sub-sub-board) that you can read and get an idea of what you might (possibly) be interested in joining in with in future. A completed game may even have the private 'scumchat'(/'deadchat'/etc) opened up to read what was ''not'' being publicly said. - Of course, this sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I hardly ever play this sort of game myself (these days), but this is how you might further understand the phenomenon and thus what the comic potentially is about. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.81\|172.71.94.81]] 18:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)		:Otherwise, the basic form (or something far more complicated!) can be found being played in all sorts of forms, all over the place. I could even see a version being played ''within this very wiki'', if someone was willing to mod a game and work out the logistics (though it'd be a bad use of the wiki editing framework, and would need some external 'private backchannel' method to send necessary hidden info to/between players/mod). But perhaps check any forum you're already a member of, see if they have a 'games' sub-board (even a 'mafia' sub-sub-board) that you can read and get an idea of what you might (possibly) be interested in joining in with in future. A completed game may even have the private 'scumchat'(/'deadchat'/etc) opened up to read what was ''not'' being publicly said. - Of course, this sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I hardly ever play this sort of game myself (these days), but this is how you might further understand the phenomenon and thus what the comic potentially is about. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.81\|172.71.94.81]] 18:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	I'm not getting the discussion near the top of this comment section. Resolution (HD) does not relate to screen size, necessarily. If you have a 15-foot by 10 foot screen and you display a 800x400 pixel image on it, it would be large, but not HD. Consequently, a 8000x4000 pixel image displayed on a 6 inch x 3 inch phone would still be HD, although hard to appreciate. [[User:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For]] ([[User talk:These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For\|talk]]) 00:05, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

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	This one completely mystified me... Usually I have SOME idea. Never heard of these games, though it sounds like the online game Among Us (which I haven't played either, LOL!)... I had understood the old game Mafia Wars on Facebook. I THINK I've heard the name Mafia, even seen the logo, but had no idea how it worked. I'm also puzzled by the Trivia, where is this big version? If I open up the comic image it's the same size as on the page, if I open up the image URL provided (the PNG link) it's also small like the page. Where's the huge one? I think he might have noticed and switched it out... [[User:NiceGuy1\|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1\|talk]]) 04:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)		This one completely mystified me... Usually I have SOME idea. Never heard of these games, though it sounds like the online game Among Us (which I haven't played either, LOL!)... I had understood the old game Mafia Wars on Facebook. I THINK I've heard the name Mafia, even seen the logo, but had no idea how it worked. I'm also puzzled by the Trivia, where is this big version? If I open up the comic image it's the same size as on the page, if I open up the image URL provided (the PNG link) it's also small like the page. Where's the huge one? I think he might have noticed and switched it out... [[User:NiceGuy1\|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1\|talk]]) 04:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
		+	:To answer the last, first, the link http://web.archive.org/web/20230926034049/https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/lying.png gives (you may have to click to view at 100% size, if your browser fits it into the window at first) the ultra-huge image that (until I saw that link) I hadn't seen. (But which had prompted theusafBOT to mis-apply the image-zoom to apply to the 'regular' 2x version of image.
		+	:As for Mafia (perhaps Facebook's Mafia Wars is based on this) it's a loose conglomeration of moderated game where players are assigned sides (good-guys and bad-guys, and possibly 'other-guy(s)') and gameplay abilities (or be 'vanilla') for use to aid their own side's (or self's) eventual achievement of a win through chat, logical deduction and assistance/interference of others (intentionally or in error). Such games can be thematic, so that instead of a small cast of city-dwellers having to deal with (or act as) a hidden mafia cell it could be (e.g.) a medieval village being harrassed by werewolves. Setting, and composition, are up to the person running the game. As is the manner of it being played (in person, via forum, via live-chat, etc). As I understand it, Among Us is basically one particular implementation of this, given its own quirks, and embedded in a dedicated game-engine to manage this (perhaps doing everything a human moderator would do, ensuring gameplay runs smoothly and all interactions happen as interactions need to (allowing private 'scumchat' messaging between any of the bad-guys who need to coordinate their underhanded activities/agree their combined scum-activities, giving those who must discover information the necessary 'facts', allowing actions to act (or not act!) as much as they are permitted to (or not!). - But I've never played it, so all I know is that it is said to be ''inspired'' by Mafia-like games...
		+	:Otherwise, the basic form (or something far more complicated!) can be found being played in all sorts of forms, all over the place. I could even see a version being played ''within this very wiki'', if someone was willing to mod a game and work out the logistics (though it'd be a bad use of the wiki editing framework, and would need some external 'private backchannel' method to send necessary hidden info to/between players/mod). But perhaps check any forum you're already a member of, see if they have a 'games' sub-board (even a 'mafia' sub-sub-board) that you can read and get an idea of what you might (possibly) be interested in joining in with in future. A completed game may even have the private 'scumchat'(/'deadchat'/etc) opened up to read what was ''not'' being publicly said. - Of course, this sort of thing isn't for everyone, and I hardly ever play this sort of game myself (these days), but this is how you might further understand the phenomenon and thus what the comic potentially is about. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.94.81\|172.71.94.81]] 18:29, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

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	:Aside from thematic differences, I think any 'baseline' differences are probably swamped by the variations seen within each gametype (number of players, spread of roles, additional further tweaks to rebalance/unbalance according to taste). And things can often progress more differently between SpeedMafia ('live' chatroom play) and a Mafia run through a persistent forum/BBS than could be seen between SpeedMafia and a Werewolf game 'in the round' (in person, chairs in a circle).		:Aside from thematic differences, I think any 'baseline' differences are probably swamped by the variations seen within each gametype (number of players, spread of roles, additional further tweaks to rebalance/unbalance according to taste). And things can often progress more differently between SpeedMafia ('live' chatroom play) and a Mafia run through a persistent forum/BBS than could be seen between SpeedMafia and a Werewolf game 'in the round' (in person, chairs in a circle).
	:But I couldn't immediately recite the numbers of 'standard' roles (e.g. "for X players, there should be Y mafia/werewolves, 1 doctor, <etc>"), it could be that the ratios are actually different and the 'special role mix' (by whatever name, cop/seer, etc) a bit different, but it's all subject to the whim of the game moderators anyway, and there's usually a personalisations or two by them, just to mix things up (sometimes tending towards Bastard setup, whether the players know to start with or not; and not all 'work', but an experienced mod will at least leave it entertaining). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.13\|172.71.178.13]] 07:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)		:But I couldn't immediately recite the numbers of 'standard' roles (e.g. "for X players, there should be Y mafia/werewolves, 1 doctor, <etc>"), it could be that the ratios are actually different and the 'special role mix' (by whatever name, cop/seer, etc) a bit different, but it's all subject to the whim of the game moderators anyway, and there's usually a personalisations or two by them, just to mix things up (sometimes tending towards Bastard setup, whether the players know to start with or not; and not all 'work', but an experienced mod will at least leave it entertaining). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.13\|172.71.178.13]] 07:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	This one completely mystified me... Usually I have SOME idea. Never heard of these games, though it sounds like the online game Among Us (which I haven't played either, LOL!)... I had understood the old game Mafia Wars on Facebook. I THINK I've heard the name Mafia, even seen the logo, but had no idea how it worked. I'm also puzzled by the Trivia, where is this big version? If I open up the comic image it's the same size as on the page, if I open up the image URL provided (the PNG link) it's also small like the page. Where's the huge one? I think he might have noticed and switched it out... [[User:NiceGuy1\|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1\|talk]]) 04:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 :Non-simple answer: Learn how to play those games with your advanced hyper-analytical abilities being used to your advantage (or as a "non-optional social convention") in which the reality is the game you're in and thus you are fulfilling the role of your existence.
 :Meta-answer: I think you're a Joker (winning condition is to be lynched). Or maybe one of a number of other player-types which demands that you play differently from either mainstrean Mafia or vanilla Villager. Which, in a four-player game (very short of practical assignments!) makes it a bastard-setup of some sort. (Rather than single mafia/werewolf and all the rest vanilla village, or ''possibly'' one cop/special-role of some kind.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.242.83|172.71.242.83]] 09:08, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 How do you even play Mafia with four people? Under standard rules, you have one moderator (Alice), one mafioso (Bob) and two civilians (Charlotte and Dave). Bob kills Dave in the first night, then there are only one mafioso and one civilian left, and the mafia wins, game over. Does anybody know a mod that would make it work with so few players? [[User:Comsmomf|Comsmomf]] ([[User talk:Comsmomf|talk]]) 11:16, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

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 : Yes that's always been noticable from the kerning.  His habit of tucking the left-hand vertical of an "H" under a preceding "T" - and shortening the left side of a "T" after an "I" (to pick just two examples)...is not something that any automated text rendering system that I'm aware of can produce. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.167.135|172.71.167.135]] 12:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 ::Also, his O's are quite noticably different from one another. Perfect repetition of loop sizes is a dead giveaway of a "handwritten" font. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.44|172.69.247.44]] 14:22, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 The published image appears the correct size on xkcd.com now. It seems it would be nice to preserve the larger one (edit: it also didn't look upscaled to me, it looked source dimensioned). I'm not sure how to upload an image. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.248|172.71.254.248]] 14:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

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	Is there any actual difference between Mafia and Werewolf, beyond what the killers are called? [[User:GreatWyrmGold\|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold\|talk]]) 22:47, 27 September 2023 (UTC)		Is there any actual difference between Mafia and Werewolf, beyond what the killers are called? [[User:GreatWyrmGold\|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold\|talk]]) 22:47, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
		+	:Aside from thematic differences, I think any 'baseline' differences are probably swamped by the variations seen within each gametype (number of players, spread of roles, additional further tweaks to rebalance/unbalance according to taste). And things can often progress more differently between SpeedMafia ('live' chatroom play) and a Mafia run through a persistent forum/BBS than could be seen between SpeedMafia and a Werewolf game 'in the round' (in person, chairs in a circle).
		+	:But I couldn't immediately recite the numbers of 'standard' roles (e.g. "for X players, there should be Y mafia/werewolves, 1 doctor, <etc>"), it could be that the ratios are actually different and the 'special role mix' (by whatever name, cop/seer, etc) a bit different, but it's all subject to the whim of the game moderators anyway, and there's usually a personalisations or two by them, just to mix things up (sometimes tending towards Bastard setup, whether the players know to start with or not; and not all 'work', but an experienced mod will at least leave it entertaining). [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.13\|172.71.178.13]] 07:44, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

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	The published image appears the correct size on xkcd.com now. It seems it would be nice to preserve the larger one (edit: it also didn't look upscaled to me, it looked source dimensioned). I'm not sure how to upload an image. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.248\|172.71.254.248]] 14:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)		The published image appears the correct size on xkcd.com now. It seems it would be nice to preserve the larger one (edit: it also didn't look upscaled to me, it looked source dimensioned). I'm not sure how to upload an image. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.254.248\|172.71.254.248]] 14:28, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
	:You (and I) cannot upload it, but if an established named editor cares to grab the archive.org and do so... (Or just rely upon the archive link, and the image link behind it, being available directly for long enough.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.203\|172.70.91.203]] 16:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)		:You (and I) cannot upload it, but if an established named editor cares to grab the archive.org and do so... (Or just rely upon the archive link, and the image link behind it, being available directly for long enough.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.203\|172.70.91.203]] 16:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
		+
		+	Is there any actual difference between Mafia and Werewolf, beyond what the killers are called? [[User:GreatWyrmGold\|GreatWyrmGold]] ([[User talk:GreatWyrmGold\|talk]]) 22:47, 27 September 2023 (UTC)