Talk:292: goto - Revision history

Kazvorpal at 19:51, 3 November 2019

2019-11-03T19:51:55Z

Kazvorpal at 19:48, 3 November 2019

2019-11-03T19:48:12Z

Kazvorpal at 20:29, 1 November 2019

2019-11-01T20:29:55Z

Kazvorpal at 17:52, 1 November 2019

2019-11-01T17:52:20Z

172.68.244.90 at 15:05, 31 October 2019

2019-10-31T15:05:26Z

199.27.133.107 at 20:36, 30 December 2014

2014-12-30T20:36:03Z

199.27.133.107 at 20:35, 30 December 2014

2014-12-30T20:35:47Z

199.27.133.107 at 20:34, 30 December 2014

2014-12-30T20:34:41Z

108.162.221.221: Just a comment

2014-10-24T02:48:07Z

Just a comment

108.162.238.224 at 16:48, 27 March 2014

2014-03-27T16:48:16Z

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 It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 First, the entire genre of dromaeosaurs are casually referred to as velociraptors. Second, utahraptor is WAY bigger than in the pic. So that note is rather flawed. —[[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 20:29, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
 I think the GOTO is so ancient, that usage of it summons ancient creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.244.90|172.68.244.90]] 15:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

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 ::Yeah, in most high-level languages exception handeling is preffered to goto. But some lower-level languages like C don't have that construct. Note that exception handling allows to go straight from inside a function to the error-handling code outside the function, which is an advantage over C-style error handling which usually require you to check the return value of every function in case you got a specialized "error code".[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 19:46, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 :::You actually can throw true exceptions in C, but without the syntactic sugar it's tedious (a lot more code), confusing (what the hell does this do?) and error prone (one could easily just wind up going to the start of the try block again, rather then going to the catch block). Also a throws and catch in the same function/method is generally frowned up for the same reasons as GOTO.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.224|108.162.238.224]] 16:48, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
-:I feel like it needs to be explained that GOTO was considered problematic in BASIC or its parent ForTran, because it did not include any ability to return. The alternative was GOSUB, which retained a pointer to your departure, and you could then RETURN to get back to the program flow. It was an [[Wikipedia:Imperative programming|imperative]] language, but not advanced enough to be necessarily [[Wikipedia:Structured programming|structured]] or [[Wikipedia:Procedural programming|procedural]], so GOTO would make debugging extremely complex. This is one of the origins of the term "spaghetti code", because tracing the program path would become necessary to find out what was going wrong, some segment of code being impossible to enter because of GOTOs ending up skipping it under all use cases. The lines of the trace would look like spaghetti. All they needed to do was use GOSUB-RETURN instead. So yes, goto or its equivalent in other languages might be acceptable, but it was highly problematic in BASIC. — [[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 17:52, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
+:I feel like it needs to be explained that GOTO was considered problematic in BASIC or its parent ForTran, because it did not include any ability to return. The alternative was GOSUB, which retained a pointer to your departure, and you could then RETURN to get back to the program flow. They were [[Wikipedia:Imperative programming|imperative]] languages, but not advanced enough to be necessarily [[Wikipedia:Structured programming|structured]] or [[Wikipedia:Procedural programming|procedural]], so GOTO would make debugging extremely complex. This is one of the origins of the term "spaghetti code", because tracing the program path would become necessary to find out what was going wrong, some segment of code being impossible to enter because of GOTOs ending up skipping it under all use cases. The lines of the trace would look like spaghetti. All they needed to do was use GOSUB-RETURN instead. So yes, goto or its equivalent in other languages might be acceptable, but it was highly problematic in BASIC. — [[User:Kazvorpal|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal|talk]]) 17:52, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
 "Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:29, 1 November 2019
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	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)		It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

		+	First, the entire genre of dromaeosaurs are casually referred to as velociraptors. Second, utahraptor is WAY bigger than in the pic. So that note is rather flawed. —[[User:Kazvorpal\|Kazvorpal]] ([[User talk:Kazvorpal\|talk]]) 20:29, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
	I think the GOTO is so ancient, that usage of it summons ancient creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.244.90\|172.68.244.90]] 15:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)		I think the GOTO is so ancient, that usage of it summons ancient creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.244.90\|172.68.244.90]] 15:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 ::Yeah, in most high-level languages exception handeling is preffered to goto. But some lower-level languages like C don't have that construct. Note that exception handling allows to go straight from inside a function to the error-handling code outside the function, which is an advantage over C-style error handling which usually require you to check the return value of every function in case you got a specialized "error code".[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 19:46, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 :::You actually can throw true exceptions in C, but without the syntactic sugar it's tedious (a lot more code), confusing (what the hell does this do?) and error prone (one could easily just wind up going to the start of the try block again, rather then going to the catch block). Also a throws and catch in the same function/method is generally frowned up for the same reasons as GOTO.--[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.224|108.162.238.224]] 16:48, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 "Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:05, 31 October 2019
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	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)		It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	I think the GOTO is so ancient, that usage of it summons ancient creatures. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.244.90\|172.68.244.90]] 15:05, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:36, 30 December 2014
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	Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)		Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

−	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, ~~PEterson~~ and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)	+	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, Peterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:35, 30 December 2014
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	Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)		Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

−	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, PEterson and Galvin. The '~~dinosaur~~' ~~book~~. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)	+	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, PEterson and Galvin. The dinosaur book '[http://pbgalvin.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/scan0006.jpg]' . [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:34, 30 December 2014
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	"Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15\|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)		"Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15\|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
	Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)		Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	It's also possible that in this specific case, the raptor is a reference to Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, PEterson and Galvin. The 'dinosaur' book. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.133.107\|199.27.133.107]] 20:34, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:48, 24 October 2014
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	"Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15\|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)		"Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15\|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
		+	Shudder I can't even imagine just how horrible the spaghetti code produced by goto's could be (or what the optimist would call "a code puzzle"). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.221\|108.162.221.221]] 02:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

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 ::From an historical perspective, in the 80's, back when BASIC was the norm for developing proggies on home computers, because code blocks (begin...end, { ... }, etc.) were nonexistent, one had the option of two keywords: GOTO and GOSUB. In the case of branching beyond code that wasn't executed, many programmers abused GOTO even beyond the necessity of its use. This was a fairly hot topic in home-computing magazines at the time, again with BASIC in mind, and it appears that developers using C, [Turbo] Pascal and the like, having hangups about BASIC, emitted serious frowns at the idea of using GOTO at all. But for quick jumps that avoid having to tab forward entire blocks of code, GOTO (case notwithstanding) certainly has my support. [[User:Thokling|Thokling]] ([[User talk:Thokling|talk]]) 16:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 :"Jumping forwards in code to the end where error handling is implemented is actually in wider use now [...]" try-catch-finally? Syntactically not a goto but the effect can be similar. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.47|108.162.219.47]] 17:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
-::Yeah, in most high-level languages exception handeling is preffered to goto. But some lower-level languages like C don't have that construct. Note that exception handling allows to go straight from inside a function to the error-handling code outside the function, which is an advantage over C-style error handling which usually require you to check the return value of every function in case you got a specialized "error code". [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 19:46, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
+::Yeah, in most high-level languages exception handeling is preffered to goto. But some lower-level languages like C don't have that construct. Note that exception handling allows to go straight from inside a function to the error-handling code outside the function, which is an advantage over C-style error handling which usually require you to check the return value of every function in case you got a specialized "error code".[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.228|141.101.99.228]] 19:46, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 "Velociraptors are a running joke..." Ha, I get it [[Special:Contributions/79.169.177.15|79.169.177.15]] 13:06, 9 October 2013 (UTC)