Talk:2942: Fluid Speech - Revision history

Lachy: Commenting that not all accents use a glottal stop.

2024-07-08T00:55:26Z

Commenting that not all accents use a glottal stop.

172.70.90.161: Adding the missing "who" of the standard "who+when" signature. Probably didn't add enough tildes. Ironic, as also added commentary about that self-sams signature character, which in part repeated older info. ;)

2024-06-15T11:06:39Z

Adding the missing "who" of the standard "who+when" signature. Probably didn't add enough tildes. Ironic, as also added commentary about that self-sams signature character, which in part repeated older info. ;)

NiceGuy1 at 05:47, 15 June 2024

2024-06-15T05:47:24Z

NiceGuy1 at 05:29, 15 June 2024

2024-06-15T05:29:50Z

NiceGuy1 at 05:29, 15 June 2024

2024-06-15T05:29:08Z

NiceGuy1 at 05:27, 15 June 2024

2024-06-15T05:27:12Z

NiceGuy1: /* Found while reading Buttercup Festival */

2024-06-15T04:56:49Z

‎Found while reading Buttercup Festival

172.70.207.192 at 21:26, 14 June 2024

2024-06-14T21:26:03Z

Yorkshire Pudding at 17:56, 7 June 2024

2024-06-07T17:56:24Z

162.158.202.134 at 17:50, 7 June 2024

2024-06-07T17:50:57Z

@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 ::This causes me physical discomfort. [[User:Psychoticpotato|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato|talk]]) 15:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 :I find I say 'hod p'tato' but the 'd' only the precursor to 'd' that's never 'plosived': my tongue forming a tube with the roof of my mouth, closed just behind my teeth, so I don't think that's glottal. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.168|172.70.85.168]] 10:21, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 Not exactly original, "hopotado": that's just how French works. Consonants at the end of a word are only pronounced if the following word starts on a vowel. In which case the two are drawn into one word. The cool thing about French is that knowing this little rule, you can read out a text alound and others understand even if you don't. :D --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.100|162.158.86.100]] 21:38, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 :::Copypasting out of the "<nowiki>Please sign your posts with ~~~~</nowiki>" Infobox or any residual from the {{template|unsigned}} templates is, of course, also a valid option. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.184|172.69.43.184]] 10:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 ::Re: Tilde, depends what keyboard you're using, :) On a FULL standard keyboard (so, not a laptop keyboard) the standard is top left, Shift-Backward Apostrophe (Shift-`), left of the 1, under the Esc (''standard'', but far from universal). On my iPad (so, probably all iOS devices) tap the ".?123" button to get to the first symbols keyboard, then "#+=" for the second symbols keyboard (ironically, all three of those are on the FIRST keyboard). It's the same button as C on the QWERTY alphabetical keyboard. On my ancient Android phone, it's ALSO the second symbol keyboard, pretty much dead center. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 : I think it's fine if you can read/interpret the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA}}. If you don't it's utterly incomprehensible. I think we need some examples here as to how the sounds written here are pronounced. Like "sound <x> as in <word>" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 :: Yeah, except [[2819]] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.120|172.70.163.120]] 08:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
@@ Line 77: / Line 78: @@
 so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 :As if you don't say it hoppa taydo when you're not focusing LOL --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.192|172.70.207.192]] 21:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
-:You probably have ONLY heard the lazy pronunciation. :) There really IS a difference, you just haven't noticed because all of this feels SO subtle (I didn't notice any of this until reading this comic). I'm no linguist or know the jargon, so all I can do is try to explain my findings in layman-speak. It's natural and usual to slip through the "T" (I'm noticing even ''without'' "potato") unless you want to emphasis it: "It's a cold potato?" "It's a HOT potato!". When fully pronouncing the T, the T sound is more like "Te". When I fully pronounce the T, I'm noticing my tongue snaps off the roof of my mouth, while when saying it normally, like in "hot potato", my tongue barely touches the roof, it speeds through it in preparation for the P. Verbally like the difference between a full stop at a stop sign or a rolling stop. 04:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
+:You probably have ONLY heard the lazy pronunciation. :) There really IS a difference, you just haven't noticed because all of this feels SO subtle (I didn't notice any of this until reading this comic). I'm no linguist or know the jargon, so all I can do is try to explain my findings in layman-speak. It's natural and usual to slip through the "T" (I'm noticing even ''without'' "potato") unless you want to emphasis it: "It's a cold potato?" "It's a HOT potato!". When fully pronouncing the T, the T sound is more like "Te". When I fully pronounce the T, I'm noticing my tongue snaps off the roof of my mouth, while when saying it normally, like in "hot potato", my tongue barely touches the roof, it speeds through it in preparation for the P. Verbally like the difference between a full stop at a stop sign or a rolling stop. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 :::That's where I usually go, to sign-off. But on physical keyboards, depending upon internationalisation options, it might be either off the top-left (left of "1" key) 'triple-key, perhaps needing Shift or AltGr fingering (from experience of US (mis)configuring), or the key in the "hook" of the <Enter> key (all my physical UK keyboards, even the most squished-up laptop ones, have that as <sub>#</sub><sup>~</sup>). If you're neither in US nor UK (and your device knows this), then where it gets shuffled out of the way of any ß, ē or ø type stuff, I wouldn't know for sure, but using the AltGr (right-Alt) ''might'' reveal characters you never ever knew you had... ;)
 :::Copypasting out of the "<nowiki>Please sign your posts with ~~~~</nowiki>" Infobox or any residual from the {{template|unsigned}} templates is, of course, also a valid option. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.184|172.69.43.184]] 10:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
-::Re: Tilde, depends what keyboard you're using, :) On a FULL standard keyboard (so, not a laptop keyboard) the standard is top left, Shift-Backward Apostrophe (Shift-`), left of the 1, under the Esc. On my iPad (so, probably all iOS devices) tap the ".?123" button to get to the first symbols keyboard, then "#+=" for the second symbols keyboard (ironically, all three of those are on the FIRST keyboard). It's the same button as C on the QWERTY alphabetical keyboard. On my ancient Android phone, it's ALSO the second symbol keyboard, pretty much dead center. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
+::Re: Tilde, depends what keyboard you're using, :) On a FULL standard keyboard (so, not a laptop keyboard) the standard is top left, Shift-Backward Apostrophe (Shift-`), left of the 1, under the Esc (''standard'', but far from universal). On my iPad (so, probably all iOS devices) tap the ".?123" button to get to the first symbols keyboard, then "#+=" for the second symbols keyboard (ironically, all three of those are on the FIRST keyboard). It's the same button as C on the QWERTY alphabetical keyboard. On my ancient Android phone, it's ALSO the second symbol keyboard, pretty much dead center. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 : I think it's fine if you can read/interpret the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA}}. If you don't it's utterly incomprehensible. I think we need some examples here as to how the sounds written here are pronounced. Like "sound <x> as in <word>" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 :: Yeah, except [[2819]] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.120|172.70.163.120]] 08:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 :::That's where I usually go, to sign-off. But on physical keyboards, depending upon internationalisation options, it might be either off the top-left (left of "1" key) 'triple-key, perhaps needing Shift or AltGr fingering (from experience of US (mis)configuring), or the key in the "hook" of the <Enter> key (all my physical UK keyboards, even the most squished-up laptop ones, have that as <sub>#</sub><sup>~</sup>). If you're neither in US nor UK (and your device knows this), then where it gets shuffled out of the way of any ß, ē or ø type stuff, I wouldn't know for sure, but using the AltGr (right-Alt) ''might'' reveal characters you never ever knew you had... ;)
 :::Copypasting out of the "<nowiki>Please sign your posts with ~~~~</nowiki>" Infobox or any residual from the {{template|unsigned}} templates is, of course, also a valid option. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.184|172.69.43.184]] 10:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
-:Re: Tilde, depends what keyboard you're using, :) On a FULL standard keyboard (so, not a laptop keyboard) the standard is top left, Shift-Backward Apostrophe (Shift-`), left of the 1, under the Esc. On my iPad (so, probably all iOS devices) tap the ".?123" button to get to the first symbols keyboard, then "#+=" for the second symbols keyboard (ironically, all three of those are on the FIRST keyboard). It's the same button as C on the QWERTY alphabetical keyboard. On my ancient Android phone, it's ALSO the second symbol keyboard, pretty much dead center. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
+::Re: Tilde, depends what keyboard you're using, :) On a FULL standard keyboard (so, not a laptop keyboard) the standard is top left, Shift-Backward Apostrophe (Shift-`), left of the 1, under the Esc. On my iPad (so, probably all iOS devices) tap the ".?123" button to get to the first symbols keyboard, then "#+=" for the second symbols keyboard (ironically, all three of those are on the FIRST keyboard). It's the same button as C on the QWERTY alphabetical keyboard. On my ancient Android phone, it's ALSO the second symbol keyboard, pretty much dead center. [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 : I think it's fine if you can read/interpret the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA}}. If you don't it's utterly incomprehensible. I think we need some examples here as to how the sounds written here are pronounced. Like "sound <x> as in <word>" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 :: Yeah, except [[2819]] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.120|172.70.163.120]] 08:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 :::That's where I usually go, to sign-off. But on physical keyboards, depending upon internationalisation options, it might be either off the top-left (left of "1" key) 'triple-key, perhaps needing Shift or AltGr fingering (from experience of US (mis)configuring), or the key in the "hook" of the <Enter> key (all my physical UK keyboards, even the most squished-up laptop ones, have that as <sub>#</sub><sup>~</sup>). If you're neither in US nor UK (and your device knows this), then where it gets shuffled out of the way of any ß, ē or ø type stuff, I wouldn't know for sure, but using the AltGr (right-Alt) ''might'' reveal characters you never ever knew you had... ;)
 :::Copypasting out of the "<nowiki>Please sign your posts with ~~~~</nowiki>" Infobox or any residual from the {{template|unsigned}} templates is, of course, also a valid option. ;) [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.184|172.69.43.184]] 10:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 : I think it's fine if you can read/interpret the {{w|International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA}}. If you don't it's utterly incomprehensible. I think we need some examples here as to how the sounds written here are pronounced. Like "sound <x> as in <word>" [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:52, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 :: Yeah, except [[2819]] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.120|172.70.163.120]] 08:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 >Alien impersonating a human

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:56, 15 June 2024
Line 76:		Line 76:
	so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134\|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)		so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134\|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
	:As if you don't say it hoppa taydo when you're not focusing LOL --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.192\|172.70.207.192]] 21:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)		:As if you don't say it hoppa taydo when you're not focusing LOL --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.192\|172.70.207.192]] 21:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
		+	:You probably have ONLY heard the lazy pronunciation. :) There really IS a difference, you just haven't noticed because all of this feels SO subtle (I didn't notice any of this until reading this comic). I'm no linguist or know the jargon, so all I can do is try to explain my findings in layman-speak. It's natural and usual to slip through the "T" (I'm noticing even ''without'' "potato") unless you want to emphasis it: "It's a cold potato?" "It's a HOT potato!". When fully pronouncing the T, the T sound is more like "Te". When I fully pronounce the T, I'm noticing my tongue snaps off the roof of my mouth, while when saying it normally, like in "hot potato", my tongue barely touches the roof, it speeds through it in preparation for the P. Verbally like the difference between a full stop at a stop sign or a rolling stop. 04:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:26, 14 June 2024
Line 75:		Line 75:

	so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134\|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)		so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134\|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
		+	:As if you don't say it hoppa taydo when you're not focusing LOL --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.207.192\|172.70.207.192]] 21:26, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:56, 7 June 2024
Line 58:		Line 58:

	If you don't fully touch your tongue to the roof of your mouth when you say "hot", it sounds normal while also having the "t" sound. I learned this by saying the phrase multiple times in class and having people look at me strangely. [[User:Psychoticpotato\|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 12:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)		If you don't fully touch your tongue to the roof of your mouth when you say "hot", it sounds normal while also having the "t" sound. I learned this by saying the phrase multiple times in class and having people look at me strangely. [[User:Psychoticpotato\|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 12:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	It's infuriating - as a linguist who specialised in English phonology and has since spent years writing voiceover scripts, so is acutely aware of pronunciation - trying to explain these phenomena to people who say "No, but I ''do'' pronounce the [x] whenever I say [y]. Listen..."<br>
		+	"No,that's not an actual "tuh" sound though you're making there though, is it? It's more like..."
		+	[[User:Yorkshire Pudding\|Yorkshire Pudding]] ([[User talk:Yorkshire Pudding\|talk]]) 17:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

	== "Sandhi" ==		== "Sandhi" ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:50, 7 June 2024
Line 69:		Line 69:
	[[File:grade_a.jpg\|frameless\|caption]]		[[File:grade_a.jpg\|frameless\|caption]]
	-- [[User:Psychoticpotato\|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 16:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)		-- [[User:Psychoticpotato\|Psychoticpotato]] ([[User talk:Psychoticpotato\|talk]]) 16:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	so he reveals he doesnt know what a fully pronounced t sounds like. Because I have never heard anybody not fully pronounce the t in hot, not even when saying hot potato. That is not an optimization, that is how t's sound.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.134\|162.158.202.134]] 17:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)