Talk:3020: Infinite Armada Chess - Revision history

Hjp at 22:01, 21 December 2024

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141.101.98.130 at 11:56, 11 December 2024

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172.69.79.191 at 09:50, 11 December 2024

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172.70.90.5 at 05:28, 10 December 2024

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162.158.186.10: reply

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172.71.26.100 at 15:30, 9 December 2024

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172.71.166.18 at 14:01, 9 December 2024

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172.71.26.37 at 09:41, 9 December 2024

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172.71.26.36 at 09:34, 9 December 2024

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172.71.26.36 at 09:33, 9 December 2024

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 : Likewise. I get the comic, but I assumed the 'armada' part was a reference that I just did not get. But it seems it is just a word choice. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.105|172.71.102.105]] 09:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 :: The only "Infinite Armada" reference I can think of is ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Knights_of_the_Old_Republic Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic]'', which kind of makes sense because if you have a Star Forge to make chess pieces with, why wouldn't you make them all queens? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.159|162.158.167.159]] 18:47, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 I think that since the error was "out of bounds", not "out of memory", it's referring to indexing outside of the region of memory that the program allocated to deal with the board. This would happen since instead of addressing rank 1..8, you could address rank 9, 10, 0, or -1. Unless bounds checking is performed when converting the board coordinates into linear array indices, you'd get an out-of-bounds error (or worse, succeed in reading or modifying memory that you weren't intending to). --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.30.253|172.71.30.253]] 05:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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	I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again. {{unsigned ip\|172.70.114.35\|18:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)}}		I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again. {{unsigned ip\|172.70.114.35\|18:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)}}

−	I can't help but wonder if this might be in some way related to a known issue with stockfish, where if there are too many available moves in a given position, it causes a buffer overflow (see https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/pull/4558). This doesn't actually apply here, but it feels like there could be a relation	+	I can't help but wonder if this might be in some way related to a known issue with stockfish, where if there are too many available moves in a given position, it causes a buffer overflow (see https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/pull/4558). This doesn't actually apply here, but it feels like there could be a relation {{unsigned ip\|172.69.79.191\|09:50, 11 December 2024}}

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	I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again. {{unsigned ip\|172.70.114.35\|18:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)}}		I cannot image this is not trying to reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCNW1OCk_M , which recently resurfaced again. {{unsigned ip\|172.70.114.35\|18:57, 6 December 2024 (UTC)}}
		+
		+	I can't help but wonder if this might be in some way related to a known issue with stockfish, where if there are too many available moves in a given position, it causes a buffer overflow (see https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/pull/4558). This doesn't actually apply here, but it feels like there could be a relation

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 :: If it were trying to access an index that was out of the range of the array, then it would probably have mentioned an index somewhere in the message, like "Out of Bounds index". However, it says that the "memory address" was "Out of Bounds," implying that it tried to access a physical memory address that was out of bounds. Anyways, it wouldn't make sense to use an unmodified version of Stockfish that would still expect on 8 rows for a larger chess board, as it's not a close approximation to having an infinite number of queens. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 20:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
 ::: The 8x8 board geometry is hardcoded entirely throughout Stockfish and its data structures. It would be easier to introduce new kinds of pieces with different kinds of moves than change the board size. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.10|162.158.186.10]] 01:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
 Is this a reference to [https://youtu.be/rav29N0-h2c infinite chess by Naviary?] [[User:HaruruChanDesu|HaruruChanDesu]] ([[User talk:HaruruChanDesu|talk]]) 11:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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 ::: The specific message, "RuntimeError: Out of bounds memory access", is a WebGL error issuing from its WASM cross-platform browser implementation. This implies to me that an attempt to render an infinite chessboard failed in a fairly trivial way, because of a poor implementation. It's very unlikely that there had been a problem with the [https://github.com/official-stockfish/Stockfish/tree/master/src Stockfish playing algorithm] yet, which would have failed with a different message if it ran out of memory, such as "Killed", which is all that shells like Bash print when one of their job processes is killed by the kernel's OOM killer, or by anything else for that matter. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.21|172.70.215.21]] 12:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 :: If it were trying to access an index that was out of the range of the array, then it would probably have mentioned an index somewhere in the message, like "Out of Bounds index". However, it says that the "memory address" was "Out of Bounds," implying that it tried to access a physical memory address that was out of bounds. Anyways, it wouldn't make sense to use an unmodified version of Stockfish that would still expect on 8 rows for a larger chess board, as it's not a close approximation to having an infinite number of queens. [[User:Firestar233|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233|if you want to]] | [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233|what i have done]]) 20:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
 Is this a reference to [https://youtu.be/rav29N0-h2c infinite chess by Naviary?] [[User:HaruruChanDesu|HaruruChanDesu]] ([[User talk:HaruruChanDesu|talk]]) 11:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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 Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
 :I agree, it seems out of character for Randall to use something like that as a punchline. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.18|172.71.166.18]] 14:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
 This was the variant played at the chess tournament held at David Hilbert's Grand Hotel. You'd think they would have struggled to fit infinitely large boards in the conference room, but they just kept moving the tables until they had enough space. [[User:RegularSizedGuy|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy|talk]]) 08:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:01, 9 December 2024
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	Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247\|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)		Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247\|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
		+	:I agree, it seems out of character for Randall to use something like that as a punchline. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.166.18\|172.71.166.18]] 14:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

	This was the variant played at the chess tournament held at David Hilbert's Grand Hotel. You'd think they would have struggled to fit infinitely large boards in the conference room, but they just kept moving the tables until they had enough space. [[User:RegularSizedGuy\|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy\|talk]]) 08:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)		This was the variant played at the chess tournament held at David Hilbert's Grand Hotel. You'd think they would have struggled to fit infinitely large boards in the conference room, but they just kept moving the tables until they had enough space. [[User:RegularSizedGuy\|RegularSizedGuy]] ([[User talk:RegularSizedGuy\|talk]]) 08:01, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

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 Is this a reference to [https://youtu.be/rav29N0-h2c infinite chess by Naviary?] [[User:HaruruChanDesu|HaruruChanDesu]] ([[User talk:HaruruChanDesu|talk]]) 11:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
-"it does not really need to consider the infinitely many pieces" => a chess Engine would need to consider the infinitely many pieces (or have a way to abstract them), even if some pieces are currently stuck because the engine recursively evaluates moves and counter-moves (i.e. evaluates the game up to some depth).
+"it does not really need to consider the infinitely many pieces" => a chess Engine would need to consider the infinitely many pieces (or have a way to abstract them), even if some pieces are currently stuck because the engine recursively evaluates moves and counter-moves (i.e. evaluates the game up to some depth).{{unsigned ip|162.158.95.184|13:44, 5 December (UTC)}}
 Is the cardinality of the set of all the pieces smaller than the cardinality of the set of all possible moves?  My gut instinct says yes but I don't have the energy to muck around and see if I can prove it.  If I did try I think that matrix diagonalization would be the first thing I'd try.  Anybody less lazy than me on this? --[[User:Tomb|Tomb]] ([[User talk:Tomb|talk]]) 21:30, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

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 Can someone explain the linked joke with all the extra queens? I don't understand why it's a bad position. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.59.125|172.69.59.125]] 16:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
+: The explanation of the linked joke is that the king appears safe at first glance, but in reality there is a simple move that wins the game for black. Moving the black knight to the top left corner of the queen square checks the king. The king cannot move to escape. Two queens are in position to take the knight and save the white king, but both of those moves expose the king to attack from other black pieces (the rook or the bishop).
-The explanation of the linked joke is that the king appears safe at first glance, but in reality there is a simple move that wins the game for black. Moving the black knight to the top left corner of the queen square checks the king. The king cannot move to escape. Two queens are in position to take the knight and save the white king, but both of those moves expose the king to attack from other black pieces (the rook or the bishop).
+:: Wow. Not only did White give Black a mate in one, they also blundered a mate in one. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.176|162.158.167.176]] 20:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 Really? This comic specifically references some obscure roblox game with like 350k visits? That can't be right. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.247|172.71.154.247]] 02:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

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 :It should be easy enough. You will rarely get the queens out in play from deep in the array. So maybe just put two chess boars together and put some placeholder in for queens in the extra fields. If ever a queen in the bottom row is moved, place extra queens that can now be moved into the 2-3 squares that would be outside the board...--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 :It might be something one could set up in Infinite Chess, although having limits on the chessboard may be difficult. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.150.67|172.68.150.67]] 14:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 : Here's a finite approximation in ChessCraft: https://www.chesscraft.ca/design?id=5KM4 [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 15:37, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 While I understand how to play chess, I don't get the bit about "having a bunch of queens doesn't go very well". At first glance, the linked chess layout looks pretty solid. Can someone please enlighten me? Also, what does the TV Tropes link about Title Drop have to do with Infinite Armada, aside from that being the title of the comic? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.230.77|172.70.230.77]] 13:10, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 : ... Nd6. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.246|172.70.91.246]] 13:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
-:: ... Nd6. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.246|172.70.91.246]] 13:31, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
+:: Ah, thanks. Moving the knight there puts the king in check, and moving either queen to take it exposes the king to the bishop or rook, so checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.38|162.158.63.38]] 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 :::<s>You are assuming that the opponent makes no moves while you spend at least three moves advancing your knight. Looks like either side can draw by always moving the king backwards whenever a queen has moved and made a hole he can move to and otherwise trying to make a new, deeper hole. Eventually he gets so far back that any attack turns into an infinite sequence of queens taking each other, with the attacker only having file attacks while the defender can retake from a rank, file, or diagonal. Any time the attacker breaks off the infinite sequence of queens taking each other to set up something else, the defender takes advantage of the break to move the king deeper and put more queens in front of him or to create more empty spaces to sidestep into when attacked. To me, this looks like a certain draw.</s> [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.252|172.69.33.252]] 16:21, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
-::: Ah, thanks. Moving the knight there puts the king in check, and moving either queen to take it exposes the king to the bishop or rook, so checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.63.38|162.158.63.38]] 15:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
+::::They're talking about the linked layout at https://x.com/chesscom/status/1841540380363211164, not the layout in the comic. It only takes one move for the black knight to move to Nd6 and put the white king in checkmate. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.109.167|141.101.109.167]] 20:59, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
 You might be able to get the developer of fairy stockfish ( https://fairy-stockfish.github.io/ ) to add this if you ask nicely. I have seen them add several reader requests. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.143|172.70.211.143]] 15:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)