Talk:3033: Origami Black Hole - Revision history

172.68.3.36 at 20:12, 7 January 2025

2025-01-07T20:12:36Z

BunsenH: added work?

2025-01-07T04:36:25Z

added work?

162.158.74.119 at 00:46, 5 January 2025

2025-01-05T00:46:18Z

42.book.addict at 21:55, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T21:55:12Z

N-eh at 21:02, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T21:02:45Z

N-eh at 21:00, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T21:00:54Z

SDSpivey at 17:42, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T17:42:46Z

Itub at 15:22, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T15:22:50Z

PaulEberhardt at 12:50, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T12:50:30Z

PaulEberhardt at 12:50, 4 January 2025

2025-01-04T12:50:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:12, 7 January 2025
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	Regarding the energy output, equivalent to the mass of the paper... do we also have to account for the work done to force the paper down to the required volume, past the barriers to compression? [[User:BunsenH\|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH\|talk]]) 04:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)		Regarding the energy output, equivalent to the mass of the paper... do we also have to account for the work done to force the paper down to the required volume, past the barriers to compression? [[User:BunsenH\|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH\|talk]]) 04:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Not saying this to suggest some kind of plagiarism or anything but I'm amused this is very similar to a joke from Jeremy Shafer's 2001 book Origami to Astonish and Amuse (in which similar instructions were presented for a "Carbon Atom" (p.244 https://archive.org/details/origami-to-astonish-and-amuse-jeremy-shafer/page/244/mode/2up)).
		+	--[[Special:Contributions/172.68.3.36\|172.68.3.36]] 20:12, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:36, 7 January 2025
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	No, "{{diff\|361075\|fifteen orders of magnitude smaller than}}" doesn't mean it goes negative. I actually very much dislike phrases like "three times less" (just say that it's a third of what it was... or whatever you ''really'' meant, because you might actually mean a quarter or an eighth, for completely different reasons!), but I think that this was clearly "it is smaller by fifteen magnitudes of reduction", not "it is a value that is the original value minus one that is fifteen magnitudes higher than the original value". Anyway, no problem with the attempted edit, but I think the reasoning is misdescribed and/or the declared confusion is unnecessary. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119\|162.158.74.119]] 00:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)		No, "{{diff\|361075\|fifteen orders of magnitude smaller than}}" doesn't mean it goes negative. I actually very much dislike phrases like "three times less" (just say that it's a third of what it was... or whatever you ''really'' meant, because you might actually mean a quarter or an eighth, for completely different reasons!), but I think that this was clearly "it is smaller by fifteen magnitudes of reduction", not "it is a value that is the original value minus one that is fifteen magnitudes higher than the original value". Anyway, no problem with the attempted edit, but I think the reasoning is misdescribed and/or the declared confusion is unnecessary. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119\|162.158.74.119]] 00:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Regarding the energy output, equivalent to the mass of the paper... do we also have to account for the work done to force the paper down to the required volume, past the barriers to compression? [[User:BunsenH\|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH\|talk]]) 04:36, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:46, 5 January 2025
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	Seems a lot like the instructions for a carbon atom. [https://preview.redd.it/how-to-make-an-origami-carbon-atom-v0-epg3xsg0yzgb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=1461b4c8bfb6e4ed9ebf5caf6c5c80557972f432] [[User:N-eh\|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh\|talk]]) 21:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)		Seems a lot like the instructions for a carbon atom. [https://preview.redd.it/how-to-make-an-origami-carbon-atom-v0-epg3xsg0yzgb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=1461b4c8bfb6e4ed9ebf5caf6c5c80557972f432] [[User:N-eh\|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh\|talk]]) 21:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	No, "{{diff\|361075\|fifteen orders of magnitude smaller than}}" doesn't mean it goes negative. I actually very much dislike phrases like "three times less" (just say that it's a third of what it was... or whatever you ''really'' meant, because you might actually mean a quarter or an eighth, for completely different reasons!), but I think that this was clearly "it is smaller by fifteen magnitudes of reduction", not "it is a value that is the original value minus one that is fifteen magnitudes higher than the original value". Anyway, no problem with the attempted edit, but I think the reasoning is misdescribed and/or the declared confusion is unnecessary. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119\|162.158.74.119]] 00:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:55, 4 January 2025
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	This strip loosely follows a routine by Emo Philips in the 1980's where he describes tearing a piece of paper in half repeatedly until it explodes. He didn't give a count though. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.140\|172.71.154.140]] 01:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)		This strip loosely follows a routine by Emo Philips in the 1980's where he describes tearing a piece of paper in half repeatedly until it explodes. He didn't give a count though. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.154.140\|172.71.154.140]] 01:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
−

	So, based on some quick math:		So, based on some quick math:

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:02, 4 January 2025
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	Alternate method: 1) get a large enough piece of paper; 2) wait for its gravitational collapse; 3) you have a black hole! This method is more convenient because the paper "folds" itself. --[[User:Itub\|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub\|talk]]) 15:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)'		Alternate method: 1) get a large enough piece of paper; 2) wait for its gravitational collapse; 3) you have a black hole! This method is more convenient because the paper "folds" itself. --[[User:Itub\|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub\|talk]]) 15:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)'

−	Seems a lot like the instructions for a carbon atom. [~~[File:~~https://preview.redd.it/how-to-make-an-origami-carbon-atom-v0-epg3xsg0yzgb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=1461b4c8bfb6e4ed9ebf5caf6c5c80557972f432]] [[User:N-eh\|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh\|talk]]) 21:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)	+	Seems a lot like the instructions for a carbon atom. [https://preview.redd.it/how-to-make-an-origami-carbon-atom-v0-epg3xsg0yzgb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=1461b4c8bfb6e4ed9ebf5caf6c5c80557972f432] [[User:N-eh\|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh\|talk]]) 21:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:00, 4 January 2025
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	I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;) [[User:PaulEberhardt\|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt\|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)		I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;) [[User:PaulEberhardt\|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt\|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

−	Alternate method: 1) get a large enough piece of paper; 2) wait for its gravitational collapse; 3) you have a black hole! This method is more convenient because the paper "folds" itself. --[[User:Itub\|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub\|talk]]) 15:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)	+	Alternate method: 1) get a large enough piece of paper; 2) wait for its gravitational collapse; 3) you have a black hole! This method is more convenient because the paper "folds" itself. --[[User:Itub\|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub\|talk]]) 15:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)'
		+
		+	Seems a lot like the instructions for a carbon atom. [[File:https://preview.redd.it/how-to-make-an-origami-carbon-atom-v0-epg3xsg0yzgb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=1461b4c8bfb6e4ed9ebf5caf6c5c80557972f432]] [[User:N-eh\|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh\|talk]]) 21:00, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 So, based on some quick math:
 If we take the 10^110 meters of paper needed to complete this many folds, then you definitely can easily make a black hole. Generously assuming a 1mm wide strip, this gives us a folded stack of paper 1mm wide, 10^53 meters tall and long. 1 light year is 10^15 meters. So this piece of paper is now 10^38 light years long and wide. I.e. something like 10^27 universes tall and long.
 Using the 70g per square meter number used above, you get 7^105 kg total mass. One solar mass is roughly 2^30 kg. Our paper weighs something like 10^54 times as much as the observable universe. This is very likely enough to reverse the expansion of the universe, and cause the entire observable universe to turn into a black hole. Or would it be a new big bang? I wonder what theoretical physics would say about a universe with 10^54 times as much mass / energy.

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:22, 4 January 2025
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	I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;) [[User:PaulEberhardt\|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt\|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)		I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;) [[User:PaulEberhardt\|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt\|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Alternate method: 1) get a large enough piece of paper; 2) wait for its gravitational collapse; 3) you have a black hole! This method is more convenient because the paper "folds" itself. --[[User:Itub\|Itub]] ([[User talk:Itub\|talk]]) 15:22, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:50, 4 January 2025
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	:Only one rule I'm aware of - always sign your comments with ~ (tilde sign) repeated four times. If you aren't signed in this will timestamp with your IP address, if signed in it will show your username as follows: [[User:Alcatraz ii\|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii\|talk]]) 10:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)		:Only one rule I'm aware of - always sign your comments with ~ (tilde sign) repeated four times. If you aren't signed in this will timestamp with your IP address, if signed in it will show your username as follows: [[User:Alcatraz ii\|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii\|talk]]) 10:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

−	I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;)	+	I think the closest anyone got to the origami was this guy from Finland, who I felt deserves an honourable mention here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuG_CeEZV6w Hydraulic Press Channel] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYBz7jjPzv8 Hydraulic Press Channel] "Closest" nevertheless still means a long way off. ;) [[User:PaulEberhardt\|PaulEberhardt]] ([[User talk:PaulEberhardt\|talk]]) 12:50, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 So, based on some quick math:
-If we take the 10^110 meters of paper needed to complete this many folds, then you definately can easily make a black hole. Generously assuming a 1mm wide strip, this gives us a folded stack of paper 1mm wide, 10^53 meters tall and long. 1 light year is 10^15 meters. So this piece of paper is now 10^38 light years long and wide. I.e. something like 10^27 universes tall and long.
+If we take the 10^110 meters of paper needed to complete this many folds, then you definitely can easily make a black hole. Generously assuming a 1mm wide strip, this gives us a folded stack of paper 1mm wide, 10^53 meters tall and long. 1 light year is 10^15 meters. So this piece of paper is now 10^38 light years long and wide. I.e. something like 10^27 universes tall and long.
 Using the 70g per square meter number used above, you get 7^105 kg total mass. One solar mass is roughly 2^30 kg. Our paper weighs something like 10^54 times as much as the observable universe. This is very likely enough to reverse the expansion of the universe, and cause the entire observable universe to turn into a black hole. Or would it be a new big bang? I wonder what theoretical physics would say about a universe with 10^54 times as much mass / energy.
@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 -Nathan {{unsigned ip|172.68.22.223|08:19, 4 January 2025‎}}
 :Only one rule I'm aware of - always sign your comments with ~ (tilde sign) repeated four times. If you aren't signed in this will timestamp with your IP address, if signed in it will show your username as follows: [[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 10:09, 4 January 2025 (UTC)