Talk:3038: Uncanceled Units - Revision history

81.179.199.253 at 00:48, 17 March 2026

2026-03-17T00:48:21Z

2001:8003:DC65:7E01:CDD4:153E:FE27:89B2 at 00:37, 17 March 2026

2026-03-17T00:37:28Z

NiceGuy1 at 06:48, 26 July 2025

2025-07-26T06:48:58Z

Hkmaly at 09:13, 30 January 2025

2025-01-30T09:13:21Z

172.70.85.116 at 01:03, 26 January 2025

2025-01-26T01:03:06Z

172.70.215.42 at 23:02, 25 January 2025

2025-01-25T23:02:36Z

Firestar233 at 02:06, 22 January 2025

2025-01-22T02:06:04Z

42.book.addict at 19:41, 21 January 2025

2025-01-21T19:41:30Z

42.book.addict at 19:40, 21 January 2025

2025-01-21T19:40:48Z

172.70.210.130: reply

2025-01-19T05:11:21Z

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ::: how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." Quite often, because the question I'm really asking is whether I can get where I'm going with some margin built in before I need to refuel my car. When I do refuel or recharge the car, I'll go to 100% of capacity. I just want to know whether I have to do that now or if I can wait and do it later because later would be more convenient. The only time I want the number the other way is when I'm buying a car and want to make it as efficient as possible. Once I have it, the amount of fuel I need isn't going to change.[[User:Yttrium|Yttrium]] ([[User talk:Yttrium|talk]]) 09:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
 ::::Mhh... probably a question of what one is used to. If I need to go 400 km, and I know my car uses 5l/100km, I just multiply 4*5 to see that I need 20l, and will know if what I have is enough or not. But I guess with mpg you can do a just as easy calc: If my car gets 50mpg (roughly 5l/100km) and I have 5 gallons (roughly 20l), I can go 50*5=250 miles, which is roughly 400km. My nitpick is: My car, and I think all cars I ever drove just shows me a dial from empty to full. Knowing how much "full" is, I can estimate how much gas I have, while my GPS will tell me a pretty exact number of km I need to go. So if I am fuelling up on a monday morning (where gas tends to be more expensive in my area than on other times), or fuel up right before I get my next salary, I might just put in as much as I need right now. But yes, maybe/probably it is mostly a thing about habits and what you are used to. And might be more of an European issue, since fuel is basically free in North America in comparison. So I guess everyone just fuels up fully all the time, but has to be cautious to reach the next gas station when travelling through the more sparely-populated areas...--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:19, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
-::::Much more useful before cars routinely reported "how many Km remaining". Before that, we would think "I can put 10 gallons in (or I've got 10 gallons left) that will take me 80 miles, that will take me work and back twice" (Cars and trucks used to have much worse milage than they do now). Now I just get in the car and see "I've got 80 km left".
+::::Much more useful before cars routinely reported "how many Km remaining". Before that, we would think "I can put 10 gallons in (or I've got 10 gallons left) that will take me 80 miles, that will take me work and back twice" (Cars and trucks used to have much worse milage than they do now). Now I just get in the car and see "I've got 80 km left". {{unsigned ip|2001:8003:dc65:7e01:cdd4:153e:fe27:89b2|00:37, 17 March 2026}}
 :: More usefully imagined as the front (or back) end of a horizontal column (or, twisting as it may, a pipeline) that traverses the journey made by the vehicle. As if (instantaneous variations excepted) you consume precisely the fuel that your vehicle passes 'through/around'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.92|141.101.76.92]] 20:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 ::: Yeah. Maybe we should express fuel consumption in terms of the speed fuel needs to be drawn through a standard fuel line. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 21:01, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ::: how often do you know "I got x amount of fuel. Wonder how far I can get." Quite often, because the question I'm really asking is whether I can get where I'm going with some margin built in before I need to refuel my car. When I do refuel or recharge the car, I'll go to 100% of capacity. I just want to know whether I have to do that now or if I can wait and do it later because later would be more convenient. The only time I want the number the other way is when I'm buying a car and want to make it as efficient as possible. Once I have it, the amount of fuel I need isn't going to change.[[User:Yttrium|Yttrium]] ([[User talk:Yttrium|talk]]) 09:02, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
 ::::Mhh... probably a question of what one is used to. If I need to go 400 km, and I know my car uses 5l/100km, I just multiply 4*5 to see that I need 20l, and will know if what I have is enough or not. But I guess with mpg you can do a just as easy calc: If my car gets 50mpg (roughly 5l/100km) and I have 5 gallons (roughly 20l), I can go 50*5=250 miles, which is roughly 400km. My nitpick is: My car, and I think all cars I ever drove just shows me a dial from empty to full. Knowing how much "full" is, I can estimate how much gas I have, while my GPS will tell me a pretty exact number of km I need to go. So if I am fuelling up on a monday morning (where gas tends to be more expensive in my area than on other times), or fuel up right before I get my next salary, I might just put in as much as I need right now. But yes, maybe/probably it is mostly a thing about habits and what you are used to. And might be more of an European issue, since fuel is basically free in North America in comparison. So I guess everyone just fuels up fully all the time, but has to be cautious to reach the next gas station when travelling through the more sparely-populated areas...--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 10:19, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
 :: More usefully imagined as the front (or back) end of a horizontal column (or, twisting as it may, a pipeline) that traverses the journey made by the vehicle. As if (instantaneous variations excepted) you consume precisely the fuel that your vehicle passes 'through/around'. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.92|141.101.76.92]] 20:45, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 ::: Yeah. Maybe we should express fuel consumption in terms of the speed fuel needs to be drawn through a standard fuel line. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 21:01, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:48, 26 July 2025
Line 104:		Line 104:
	I used to tell people I work 7.5 hours per day, but after reading this comic I'm going to switch to saying I work 0.3125 with no units. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.36\|172.70.162.36]] 22:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)		I used to tell people I work 7.5 hours per day, but after reading this comic I'm going to switch to saying I work 0.3125 with no units. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.36\|172.70.162.36]] 22:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
	:Go the other way and ''add'' combinable units... 0.3125 Hertz-seconds. Or go ''really'' wild with the ratio. I'm sure you could work out how many "lumen per hectare-luxes" it would be (3125?)... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119\|162.158.74.119]] 23:22, 17 January 2025 (UTC)		:Go the other way and ''add'' combinable units... 0.3125 Hertz-seconds. Or go ''really'' wild with the ratio. I'm sure you could work out how many "lumen per hectare-luxes" it would be (3125?)... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119\|162.158.74.119]] 23:22, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	TOO MANY COMMENTS to read through so I can't be sure, but I suspect this hasn't been mentioned: the height in gallons, the explanation says if they're US gallons (which they logically would be, Randall usually skews to American things due to being in America) that works out to 6' 8" (6 feet, 8 inches). That is SHORT for a ceiling (and tall for a fridge space). I'm 6' 2", if I hopped I could hit my head on such a ceiling. It also says a UK gallon would work out to around 8', which is a much more reasonable ceiling height. Is it possible Randall was actually meaning UK gallons? Maybe just to be extra ridiculous for the U.S.? (Or the Occam's Razor explanation that 50 is a nice round number)... [[User:NiceGuy1\|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1\|talk]]) 06:48, 26 July 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 78: / Line 78: @@
 :Fridge is actually heating device: it heats up your kitchen by pumping the heat from inside to outside. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 22:32, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
 :: It's actually a heat pump, moving heat from one location to another. Whether a heat pump is a heating device or a cooling device depends entirely on your perspective. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.148|172.69.246.148]] 23:17, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
 There is actually a good reason to differentiate between Wh/h (energy over time) and W (power): Non-constant consumption. If the fridge consumes 3kWh/d, its compressor will be rated in the 300-400W nominal range (the thermostatic controller will cycle the compressor on and off; for a modern fridge-freezer combination, a typical duty cycle would be in the 25-30% range). The unit nameplate will say "400W" because that's the rated power the electrical installation will have to be designed for (how many of these fridges can you put on a 20A breaker etc.). This is only determined by the physical properties of the compressor motor. The energy consumption additionally depends on insulation, internal space of the cabinet etc. etc. and only makes sense as a time average (due to the intermittent operation of the compressor). Not sure about US rules, but here in Europe, there's a standard energy class label for fridges which specifies kWh/a as a primary means of comparison. (Averaging over a year has the advantage that you can test against a standardized profile of ambient temperature change between summer and winter).

@@ Line 96: / Line 96: @@
 :also dosages for medicine. At least for pets it is often mg/kg. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:07, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
 :If a railroad company wants to build track across my farm, I want to know how many ACRES of good arable farmland I will lose PER MILE of track they build. Oh sure, you could tell me how many millimeters, or how many fathoms, furlongs, or light years, but doing so would only force me to convert it to something useful: how many acres per mile. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.215.42|172.70.215.42]] 23:02, 25 January 2025 (UTC)
 I used to tell people I work 7.5 hours per day, but after reading this comic I'm going to switch to saying I work 0.3125 with no units. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.36|172.70.162.36]] 22:48, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
 :Go the other way and ''add'' combinable units...  0.3125 Hertz-seconds.  Or go ''really'' wild with the ratio. I'm sure you could work out how many "lumen per hectare-luxes" it would be (3125?)... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.119|162.158.74.119]] 23:22, 17 January 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:06, 22 January 2025
Line 34:		Line 34:

	Hubble's constant can be expressed in reciprocal seconds, but it should not be expressed in Hz. Hz are reserved for repeating phenomenon. There is insufficient evidence of a cyclic universe. Using Hz could be an attempt to insert an unwarranted assumption into cosmology. This type of subtle "propaganda through choice of units" happens fairly often. Changing units can give a different perspective. Usually this will be through simplification because there is no algorithmic method to choose useful complex units.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.167.69\|172.71.167.69]] 18:32, 17 January 2025 (UTC)		Hubble's constant can be expressed in reciprocal seconds, but it should not be expressed in Hz. Hz are reserved for repeating phenomenon. There is insufficient evidence of a cyclic universe. Using Hz could be an attempt to insert an unwarranted assumption into cosmology. This type of subtle "propaganda through choice of units" happens fairly often. Changing units can give a different perspective. Usually this will be through simplification because there is no algorithmic method to choose useful complex units.[[Special:Contributions/172.71.167.69\|172.71.167.69]] 18:32, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
		+	:So you think we should represent it with {{w\|Becquerel\|becquerels}}? [[User:Firestar233\|guess who]] ([[User talk:Firestar233\|if you desire conversing]] \| [[Special:Contributions/Firestar233\|what i have done]]) 02:06, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

	Technically, kWh should be written as kW⋅h or kW h, because it literally means "kilowatts multiplied by one hour", not "kilowatts per hour" as many people assume. However, almost nobody writes it correctly. (kW/h is sometimes also seen, but egregiously incorrect.) Also, particularly now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, people often get confused between kW and kW h. The car can charge at a peak or average rate expressed in kW, but energy billed by a charging service provider is expressed in kWh. People frequently either add or remove the "h" incorrectly because they don't understand the difference. In some places like India, a kilowatt-hour is simply referred to as a "unit" to avoid confusion. In my opinion, it was an enormous mistake to use kWh when we could be using mJ instead, which I think is probably something close to the point Randall may have been trying to make. Anyway, I wasn't sure if there was a place for any of this random trivia in the article itself, but feel free to use it. [[User:Equites\|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites\|talk]]) 17:11, 15 January 2025 (UTC)		Technically, kWh should be written as kW⋅h or kW h, because it literally means "kilowatts multiplied by one hour", not "kilowatts per hour" as many people assume. However, almost nobody writes it correctly. (kW/h is sometimes also seen, but egregiously incorrect.) Also, particularly now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, people often get confused between kW and kW h. The car can charge at a peak or average rate expressed in kW, but energy billed by a charging service provider is expressed in kWh. People frequently either add or remove the "h" incorrectly because they don't understand the difference. In some places like India, a kilowatt-hour is simply referred to as a "unit" to avoid confusion. In my opinion, it was an enormous mistake to use kWh when we could be using mJ instead, which I think is probably something close to the point Randall may have been trying to make. Anyway, I wasn't sure if there was a place for any of this random trivia in the article itself, but feel free to use it. [[User:Equites\|Equites]] ([[User talk:Equites\|talk]]) 17:11, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 66: / Line 66: @@
 I suspect this comic is inspired by the much more common pet peeve of incorrect/nonsensical units, frequently encountered in similar contexts. I'm so used to hearing kWh mistakenly written simply as kW, that I initially misread and assumed that's what the comic is about. That's a particularly common example, where you'll hear battery capacities listed in kW, or instantaneous power described in watt-hours. [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 09:53, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
 :{{w|Calorie#Chemistry and physics|Calories}} vs. {{w|Calorie#Nutrition|calories}}, also... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.178|141.101.98.178]] 12:23, 16 January 2025 (UTC)
-: Yeah, get it straight people! Instantaneous battery discharge rate should be in some scale of watt-hours per second :P  All this hassle because apparently nobody likes Joules or Coulombs as a unit.  Besides the obvious unit cancelation thing, why would kilowatt-hours be more of a thing than watt-seconds anyway, since they are the same general order of magnitude? SammyChips 16:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
+: Yeah, get it straight people! Instantaneous battery discharge rate should be in some scale of watt-hours per second :P  All this hassle because apparently nobody likes Joules or Coulombs as a unit.  Besides the obvious unit cancelation thing, why would kilowatt-hours be more of a thing than watt-seconds anyway, since they are the same general order of magnitude? {{unsigned|SammyChips}} SammyChips 16:05, 17 January 2025 (UTC)
 It could be worse.. I keep seeing TVs marked in kWh per 1000 hours... That is just insanity pure and simple.. It is in fact Watts!!![[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.34|172.71.160.34]] 12:38, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 I always wonder why people here prefer liter/m^2 for the amount of rain. Where the same number as mm is way easier to imagine. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.50.99|172.68.50.99]] 18:14, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 : At first, I was wondering if you would have rather had it in microliters/mm^2, but you meant the column height of the rain, like inches are used in the US.  Along the line of L/m^2, something like mL/cm^2 might be nice considering the density of water, although the value also would be different by a factor. [[User:SammyChips|SammyChips]] ([[User talk:SammyChips|talk]]) 20:51, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
-: That's the neat thing about the metric system, they are trivially simple to convert. 1l/m² is exactly 1mm. The fact that the meteorology uses the former just stems from the fact that that's how they measure it. The catch the rain on an area of 1m² into a beaker that contains some volume which is measured in liters. What annoys me though, is that noone seems to be talking about how terribly inefficient the fridge in the comic is. Mine only needs a tenth of the one that Whitehat tries to sell, and that's not even particularly good. --21:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
+: That's the neat thing about the metric system, they are trivially simple to convert. 1l/m² is exactly 1mm. The fact that the meteorology uses the former just stems from the fact that that's how they measure it. The catch the rain on an area of 1m² into a beaker that contains some volume which is measured in liters. What annoys me though, is that noone seems to be talking about how terribly inefficient the fridge in the comic is. Mine only needs a tenth of the one that Whitehat tries to sell, and that's not even particularly good. --{{unsigned ip|162.158.203.28}} 21:21, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 :: UK measurements, once it gets to weather reports/forecasts, tend to be in millimetres (or centimetres, where more for the layperson who don't need mm-resulution; or occasionally recast as 'old money' inches, with ''really'' bad rain events summarised in relation to whole feet), which is implicitly the depth to which ''any'' area would be filled (in a case where large catchment + funnelling valley situation is concerned, suffering from the run-off, might be ''reported'' as "equivalent to ''N'' feet of rain", down where the bad effects get concentrated, but this is not a meteorological measure as such).
 :: Not sure I've ever seen volume/area as an end-result figure (might be relevent as an intermediate for measurement/calculation, especially when discussing the funelling effects of the given local geography), but of course it's trivially relatable.

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 I guess not every comic can be a winner.  Talking about an appliance using a certain amount of kWH per day is clear and normal.  Power gets billed by the kWh, not the Joule.  While technically not wrong, wanting "cancel" a sub-part of the commonly-used energy unit kWh and leaving it in deliberately-obscured units most people are less familiar with is the sort of insanity I'd more expect from White Hat than Cueball. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.35.171|172.70.35.171]] 13:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 :Maybe that is a meta-joke? To frame kWh/day as something crazy by giving that line to whitehat --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 13:52, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 :There's a difference between instantaneous power draw, and the total "volume"(/area, really) of power over time. Though a fridge is "always on", it is still only irregularly at full-draw. But, to the power company (or to the gas company, who will generally give a kWh measure of 'energy taken from the network'), they don't (generally) care whether you used twice as many kW over half the time or half as many over twice the time, within any given total billing period, even if it affects what you think. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.163.46|172.70.163.46]] 14:39, 15 January 2025 (UTC)
 ::Using joule as if it was an everyday unit of energy would be weird but I don't agree that watt is crazy. It's a normal unit of energy consumption that does mean something to people, e.g. 1000W microwave, 100W (incandescent) light bulb. Don't get me wrong kWh/day is also useful to translate it to your energy bill, but I do feel slightly uncomfortable every time I see that time divided by time :-) [[User:Mtcv|Mtcv]] ([[User talk:Mtcv|talk]]) 14:40, 15 January 2025 (UTC)