Talk:3099: Neighbor-Source Heat Pump - Revision history

Bb777 at 21:11, 27 July 2025

2025-07-27T21:11:10Z

Bb777 at 21:10, 27 July 2025

2025-07-27T21:10:37Z

165.225.208.148 at 13:33, 10 June 2025

2025-06-10T13:33:23Z

82.132.219.135 at 01:17, 10 June 2025

2025-06-10T01:17:49Z

82.13.184.33 at 15:49, 9 June 2025

2025-06-09T15:49:44Z

165.225.208.148: Fixed previous edit which ended up in the wrong place and had forgotten my signature

2025-06-09T15:39:35Z

Fixed previous edit which ended up in the wrong place and had forgotten my signature

165.225.208.148: HVAC engineering clarification

2025-06-09T15:37:30Z

HVAC engineering clarification

2001:4450:8167:7900:186D:5DAB:3643:B673 at 12:22, 9 June 2025

2025-06-09T12:22:46Z

82.13.184.33 at 10:12, 9 June 2025

2025-06-09T10:12:28Z

82.13.184.33 at 10:08, 9 June 2025

2025-06-09T10:08:09Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:11, 27 July 2025
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	::Yes, I exaggerated for effect (only slightly) when I wrote "any thermal energy", because obviously there will be at least some heat conduction across any thermal gradient. However, the efficiency will be abysmal, and with my own GSHP, if the well pipes were buried in dry ground, the unit would not operate for more than a minute before tripping off due to the refrigerant pressure safety switch. It needs flowing water in order to operate successfully, preferably lots of it, which my local geology fortunately possesses. And indeed, every air-source heat pump I have seen has fans in both heat exchangers. Without those, they would trip off quickly too, as would Randall's NSHP.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 13:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)		::Yes, I exaggerated for effect (only slightly) when I wrote "any thermal energy", because obviously there will be at least some heat conduction across any thermal gradient. However, the efficiency will be abysmal, and with my own GSHP, if the well pipes were buried in dry ground, the unit would not operate for more than a minute before tripping off due to the refrigerant pressure safety switch. It needs flowing water in order to operate successfully, preferably lots of it, which my local geology fortunately possesses. And indeed, every air-source heat pump I have seen has fans in both heat exchangers. Without those, they would trip off quickly too, as would Randall's NSHP.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 13:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

−	i guess this should be installed when they are on vacation	+	i guess this should be installed when they are on vacation --[[User:Bb777\|me, hi]] ([[User talk:Bb777\|talk]]) 21:11, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:10, 27 July 2025
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	:Obviously, air-source pumps may be significantly better at exploiting latent energy from freely-(/forced-)flowing air, and perhaps water-source will induce some fluid cycling around its dunked piping, but it's perfeclty possible to force a radiator-effect (either direction) against a static medium, only the interior of the pipes themselves being moving fluid to convey enough of the pump's heat/cold through the pipe walls to draw in/push out the temperature differential that the system needs to do to allow the other side of the process to push out/draw in accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.219.135\|82.132.219.135]] 01:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)		:Obviously, air-source pumps may be significantly better at exploiting latent energy from freely-(/forced-)flowing air, and perhaps water-source will induce some fluid cycling around its dunked piping, but it's perfeclty possible to force a radiator-effect (either direction) against a static medium, only the interior of the pipes themselves being moving fluid to convey enough of the pump's heat/cold through the pipe walls to draw in/push out the temperature differential that the system needs to do to allow the other side of the process to push out/draw in accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.219.135\|82.132.219.135]] 01:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
	::Yes, I exaggerated for effect (only slightly) when I wrote "any thermal energy", because obviously there will be at least some heat conduction across any thermal gradient. However, the efficiency will be abysmal, and with my own GSHP, if the well pipes were buried in dry ground, the unit would not operate for more than a minute before tripping off due to the refrigerant pressure safety switch. It needs flowing water in order to operate successfully, preferably lots of it, which my local geology fortunately possesses. And indeed, every air-source heat pump I have seen has fans in both heat exchangers. Without those, they would trip off quickly too, as would Randall's NSHP.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 13:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)		::Yes, I exaggerated for effect (only slightly) when I wrote "any thermal energy", because obviously there will be at least some heat conduction across any thermal gradient. However, the efficiency will be abysmal, and with my own GSHP, if the well pipes were buried in dry ground, the unit would not operate for more than a minute before tripping off due to the refrigerant pressure safety switch. It needs flowing water in order to operate successfully, preferably lots of it, which my local geology fortunately possesses. And indeed, every air-source heat pump I have seen has fans in both heat exchangers. Without those, they would trip off quickly too, as would Randall's NSHP.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 13:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	i guess this should be installed when they are on vacation

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:33, 10 June 2025
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	:If you're relying upon convection to bring heat to the piping of a ''ground''-source heatpump, then I think you've probably [[1223: Dwarf Fortress\|dug too deep]]. The type of ground that you use as a heatpump source ''generally'' doesn't do anything much but conduct heat (full geothermal ''might'' be otherwise, but that becomes less heat-pump and more "using a hot aquifer as a free boiler"), much less free flow (or get blown by fans).		:If you're relying upon convection to bring heat to the piping of a ''ground''-source heatpump, then I think you've probably [[1223: Dwarf Fortress\|dug too deep]]. The type of ground that you use as a heatpump source ''generally'' doesn't do anything much but conduct heat (full geothermal ''might'' be otherwise, but that becomes less heat-pump and more "using a hot aquifer as a free boiler"), much less free flow (or get blown by fans).
	:Obviously, air-source pumps may be significantly better at exploiting latent energy from freely-(/forced-)flowing air, and perhaps water-source will induce some fluid cycling around its dunked piping, but it's perfeclty possible to force a radiator-effect (either direction) against a static medium, only the interior of the pipes themselves being moving fluid to convey enough of the pump's heat/cold through the pipe walls to draw in/push out the temperature differential that the system needs to do to allow the other side of the process to push out/draw in accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.219.135\|82.132.219.135]] 01:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)		:Obviously, air-source pumps may be significantly better at exploiting latent energy from freely-(/forced-)flowing air, and perhaps water-source will induce some fluid cycling around its dunked piping, but it's perfeclty possible to force a radiator-effect (either direction) against a static medium, only the interior of the pipes themselves being moving fluid to convey enough of the pump's heat/cold through the pipe walls to draw in/push out the temperature differential that the system needs to do to allow the other side of the process to push out/draw in accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.219.135\|82.132.219.135]] 01:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
		+	::Yes, I exaggerated for effect (only slightly) when I wrote "any thermal energy", because obviously there will be at least some heat conduction across any thermal gradient. However, the efficiency will be abysmal, and with my own GSHP, if the well pipes were buried in dry ground, the unit would not operate for more than a minute before tripping off due to the refrigerant pressure safety switch. It needs flowing water in order to operate successfully, preferably lots of it, which my local geology fortunately possesses. And indeed, every air-source heat pump I have seen has fans in both heat exchangers. Without those, they would trip off quickly too, as would Randall's NSHP.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 13:33, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:17, 10 June 2025
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	Of course it's a joke, but simply running pipes into the neighbour's walls isn't going to do much. The pipes would be nestled in the house's exterior wall insulation, and adjacent to drywall, and completely unable to transfer any thermal energy in any direction. A high volume of convective air (or water) exchange is essential. So if the neighbour didn't notice the "unobtrusive" major HVAC work, they would certainly notice the fan blowing hot air from the wall into their living room in the summer! :) [[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 15:39, 9 June 2025 (UTC)		Of course it's a joke, but simply running pipes into the neighbour's walls isn't going to do much. The pipes would be nestled in the house's exterior wall insulation, and adjacent to drywall, and completely unable to transfer any thermal energy in any direction. A high volume of convective air (or water) exchange is essential. So if the neighbour didn't notice the "unobtrusive" major HVAC work, they would certainly notice the fan blowing hot air from the wall into their living room in the summer! :) [[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148\|165.225.208.148]] 15:39, 9 June 2025 (UTC)
		+	:If you're relying upon convection to bring heat to the piping of a ''ground''-source heatpump, then I think you've probably [[1223: Dwarf Fortress\|dug too deep]]. The type of ground that you use as a heatpump source ''generally'' doesn't do anything much but conduct heat (full geothermal ''might'' be otherwise, but that becomes less heat-pump and more "using a hot aquifer as a free boiler"), much less free flow (or get blown by fans).
		+	:Obviously, air-source pumps may be significantly better at exploiting latent energy from freely-(/forced-)flowing air, and perhaps water-source will induce some fluid cycling around its dunked piping, but it's perfeclty possible to force a radiator-effect (either direction) against a static medium, only the interior of the pipes themselves being moving fluid to convey enough of the pump's heat/cold through the pipe walls to draw in/push out the temperature differential that the system needs to do to allow the other side of the process to push out/draw in accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.219.135\|82.132.219.135]] 01:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 This elevates the joke from being about a scientifically illiterate person to a hilarious, high-stakes covert operation conducted by a diabolically clever one. The true absurdity isn't just the concept of a "neighbor-source" pump, but the mental image of the protagonist sneaking into their neighbor's house to perform major HVAC work inside their walls.
-I would suggest editing the explanation to highlight this reveal. The title text isn't just ''"addressing some of the issues"''; it's the key that transforms the butt of the joke from the protagonist into their unsuspecting neighbor.
+I would suggest editing the explanation to highlight this reveal. The title text isn't just ''"addressing some of the issues"''; it's the key that transforms the butt of the joke from the protagonist into their unsuspecting neighbor. [[User:Omermor|Omermor]] ([[User talk:Omermor|talk]]) 08:04, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
 :The comic isn't ambiguous. The house on the left has extended its heat-pump 'source' pipes into the house on the right, and there's no other way to interpret it. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.228|92.23.2.228]] 18:16, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
@@ Line 35: / Line 32: @@
 How many? ''> difficult to interfere with the structure ..., by feeding pipes up into at least two of its wall cavities'' It is not necessarily '''two''' or more cavities. A single loop would gain some small benefit. A better plan would be to use the typical inside air handler (fins, fans) as the leeching machine. I think it is drawn symmetrical to look pretty. --[[User:PRR|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR|talk]]) 21:04, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
 Of course it's a joke, but simply running pipes into the neighbour's walls isn't going to do much.  The pipes would be nestled in the house's exterior wall insulation, and adjacent to drywall, and completely unable to transfer any thermal energy in any direction.  A high volume of convective air (or water) exchange is essential.  So if the neighbour didn't notice the "unobtrusive" major HVAC work, they would certainly notice the fan blowing hot air from the wall into their living room in the summer!  :) [[Special:Contributions/165.225.208.148|165.225.208.148]] 15:39, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:22, 9 June 2025
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	How many? ''> difficult to interfere with the structure ..., by feeding pipes up into at least two of its wall cavities'' It is not necessarily '''two''' or more cavities. A single loop would gain some small benefit. A better plan would be to use the typical inside air handler (fins, fans) as the leeching machine. I think it is drawn symmetrical to look pretty. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 21:04, 8 June 2025 (UTC)		How many? ''> difficult to interfere with the structure ..., by feeding pipes up into at least two of its wall cavities'' It is not necessarily '''two''' or more cavities. A single loop would gain some small benefit. A better plan would be to use the typical inside air handler (fins, fans) as the leeching machine. I think it is drawn symmetrical to look pretty. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 21:04, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	next comic is [[3100: 17 SDGs]].

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:12, 9 June 2025
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	::This is a "Neighbour-Source" Heat Pump, not a "Neighbour's Heat Pump"-Source. And the "excess heat/cold" put out by this unit is the exact opposite of the "cold/heat" that the house takes, you'd be on firmer footing if you said that Right had plumbed themselves into Left's houseward pipes (which could have been easily drawn) to just extend the flow-cycle into two houses. Instead, it superficially looks like it's a Ground-Source HP, but with the 'ambient' pipes sneaking off into Right's walls rather than properly drilled down (and/or spread out, not quite so deep below a wider spread of land). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.228\|92.23.2.228]] 09:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)		::This is a "Neighbour-Source" Heat Pump, not a "Neighbour's Heat Pump"-Source. And the "excess heat/cold" put out by this unit is the exact opposite of the "cold/heat" that the house takes, you'd be on firmer footing if you said that Right had plumbed themselves into Left's houseward pipes (which could have been easily drawn) to just extend the flow-cycle into two houses. Instead, it superficially looks like it's a Ground-Source HP, but with the 'ambient' pipes sneaking off into Right's walls rather than properly drilled down (and/or spread out, not quite so deep below a wider spread of land). [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.228\|92.23.2.228]] 09:38, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

−	== How many? ==	+	How many? ''> difficult to interfere with the structure ..., by feeding pipes up into at least two of its wall cavities'' It is not necessarily '''two''' or more cavities. A single loop would gain some small benefit. A better plan would be to use the typical inside air handler (fins, fans) as the leeching machine. I think it is drawn symmetrical to look pretty. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 21:04, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
−	''> difficult to interfere with the structure ..., by feeding pipes up into at least two of its wall cavities'' It is not necessarily '''two''' or more cavities. A single loop would gain some small benefit. A better plan would be to use the typical inside air handler (fins, fans) as the leeching machine. I think it is drawn symmetrical to look pretty. --[[User:PRR\|PRR]] ([[User talk:PRR\|talk]]) 21:04, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 :similarly, I live in a skyscraper in Hamburg where winters can be quite cold. And my heating was kaput. And the next termin with a technician in spring. But the temperatures inside my apartment never fell to values where I would have to sleep in a pullover... [[Special:Contributions/2A02:2455:1960:4000:757C:FFAC:A492:CBCA|2A02:2455:1960:4000:757C:FFAC:A492:CBCA]] 07:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)
-== The role of the title text in re-framing the joke ==
+The role of the title text in re-framing the joke: This is a great technical breakdown of the heat pump concept and the core premise of stealing a neighbor's conditioned air. However, I believe the current explanation understates the crucial role of the title text in delivering the full punchline by completely re-framing the situation.
 The comic panel itself is deliberately ambiguous. A first-time reader might assume the protagonist lives in the house on the right and is tapping into the external unit of the "neighbor" on the left. In this scenario, the protagonist seems comically inept. They would be capturing the waste '''heat''' from their neighbor's air conditioner in the summer (when they need cooling) and the waste '''cold''' from their neighbor's heater in the winter (when they need heating) — ''the exact opposite of what they actually need''. The joke would be about their fundamental misunderstanding of how heat pumps work.