Talk:3161: Airspeed - Revision history

RG at 00:52, 15 May 2026

2026-05-15T00:52:53Z

Jordan Brown: typo

2025-11-08T03:49:42Z

typo

Jordan Brown: Fluctuations in IAS are not measurement error.

2025-11-08T03:48:56Z

Fluctuations in IAS are not measurement error.

82.13.184.33 at 09:08, 3 November 2025

2025-11-03T09:08:02Z

82.132.237.66: You split the whole 82.* comment when you also decided to reply to the 2603:* one.

2025-11-01T13:57:55Z

You split the whole 82.* comment when you also decided to reply to the 2603:* one.

Jeremyp at 13:53, 1 November 2025

2025-11-01T13:53:22Z

82.13.184.33 at 12:16, 31 October 2025

2025-10-31T12:16:30Z

82.13.184.33 at 12:15, 31 October 2025

2025-10-31T12:15:07Z

82.13.184.33 at 12:14, 31 October 2025

2025-10-31T12:14:42Z

82.132.244.58 at 15:23, 30 October 2025

2025-10-30T15:23:24Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:52, 15 May 2026
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	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' line with links to the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference - although the main thrust of the joke - and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)		Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' line with links to the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference - although the main thrust of the joke - and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Excellent citation needed joke. [[User:RG\|RG]] ([[User talk:RG\|talk]]) 00:52, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 :::(Indented and 'unsigned' you, BTW. You don't need to do anything more to the above, but try to add the proper signing, and any useful indentation, in future edits...) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.244.58|82.132.244.58]] 15:23, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
 :::"...if you neglect inertia/drag" Why would you neglect inertia and drag? Real balloons don't magically not have inertia and drag. If you get a sudden gust of wind, the inertia of the balloon will cause its speed to slightly lag the speed of the wind for a few moments. This is precisely what the comic is about [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:53, 1 November 2025 (UTC)
-:::IAS is what the airplane flies on; it's not a mere measurement error.  Ram pressure on the pitot tube almost always tied to ram pressure on the wings.  If you think it's just measurement error, you need to explain that to your airplane when a nearby microburst gives you a huge tailwind, your IAS drops dramatically, and your airplane stalls. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 03:48, 8 November 2025 (UTC)
+:::IAS is what the airplane flies on; it's not a mere measurement error.  Ram pressure on the pitot tube is almost always tied to ram pressure on the wings.  If you think it's just measurement error, you need to explain that to your airplane when a nearby microburst gives you a huge tailwind, your IAS drops dramatically, and your airplane stalls. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 03:48, 8 November 2025 (UTC)
 Actually, there can be significant wind shear near the earth.  If the basket is only a few feet above the ground, you can feel substantial “wind” because the ballioon, being higher up, is being pushed by a faster wind and dragging the basket through the lower, slower, air.  If you mount your airspeed indicator on the basket, you can have a significant ‘speed’ relative to the air through which you’re being dragged.  When I experienced this the first times, I said,  “what the?”  The pilot politely explained…… {{unsigned ip|73.162.95.226|03:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)}}

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 :::(Indented and 'unsigned' you, BTW. You don't need to do anything more to the above, but try to add the proper signing, and any useful indentation, in future edits...) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.244.58|82.132.244.58]] 15:23, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
 :::"...if you neglect inertia/drag" Why would you neglect inertia and drag? Real balloons don't magically not have inertia and drag. If you get a sudden gust of wind, the inertia of the balloon will cause its speed to slightly lag the speed of the wind for a few moments. This is precisely what the comic is about [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:53, 1 November 2025 (UTC)
 Actually, there can be significant wind shear near the earth.  If the basket is only a few feet above the ground, you can feel substantial “wind” because the ballioon, being higher up, is being pushed by a faster wind and dragging the basket through the lower, slower, air.  If you mount your airspeed indicator on the basket, you can have a significant ‘speed’ relative to the air through which you’re being dragged.  When I experienced this the first times, I said,  “what the?”  The pilot politely explained…… {{unsigned ip|73.162.95.226|03:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)}}

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 :::(Indented and 'unsigned' you, BTW. You don't need to do anything more to the above, but try to add the proper signing, and any useful indentation, in future edits...) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.244.58|82.132.244.58]] 15:23, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
 :::"...if you neglect inertia/drag" Why would you neglect inertia and drag? Real balloons don't magically not have inertia and drag. If you get a sudden gust of wind, the inertia of the balloon will cause its speed to slightly lag the speed of the wind for a few moments. This is precisely what the comic is about [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:53, 1 November 2025 (UTC)
 Actually, there can be significant wind shear near the earth.  If the basket is only a few feet above the ground, you can feel substantial “wind” because the ballioon, being higher up, is being pushed by a faster wind and dragging the basket through the lower, slower, air.  If you mount your airspeed indicator on the basket, you can have a significant ‘speed’ relative to the air through which you’re being dragged.  When I experienced this the first times, I said,  “what the?”  The pilot politely explained…… {{unsigned ip|73.162.95.226|03:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)}}

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 ::Ah, but that is IAS.   IAS increase in the situation you describe is an artifact of the measurement - transient increase in ram pressure on the Pitot tube.  The actual airspeed of the balloon is zero (or close, if you neglect inertia/drag).  I refer you to Chapter 5 of of "Stick and Rudder" {{unsigned ip|2603:7000:9c07:5749:cfe:67ca:4e99:71f8|13:37, 30 October 2025}}
 :::"...or close". And ''that's'' what the comic is saying. Agree/disagree?
 :::"...if you neglect inertia/drag" Why would you neglect inertia and drag? Real balloons don't magically not have inertia and drag. If you get a sudden gust of wind, the inertia of the balloon will cause its speed to slightly lag the speed of the wind for a few moments. This is precisely what the comic is about [[User:Jeremyp|Jeremyp]] ([[User talk:Jeremyp|talk]]) 13:53, 1 November 2025 (UTC)
-:::(Indented and 'unsigned' you, BTW. You don't need to do anything more to the above, but try to add the proper signing, and any useful indentation, in future edits...) [[Special:Contributions/82.132.244.58|82.132.244.58]] 15:23, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
 Actually, there can be significant wind shear near the earth.  If the basket is only a few feet above the ground, you can feel substantial “wind” because the ballioon, being higher up, is being pushed by a faster wind and dragging the basket through the lower, slower, air.  If you mount your airspeed indicator on the basket, you can have a significant ‘speed’ relative to the air through which you’re being dragged.  When I experienced this the first times, I said,  “what the?”  The pilot politely explained…… {{unsigned ip|73.162.95.226|03:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:16, 31 October 2025
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	:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)		:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

−	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' line with links to the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)	+	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' line with links to the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference - although the main thrust of the joke - and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:15, 31 October 2025
Line 22:		Line 22:
	:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)		:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

−	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' with the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)	+	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' line with links to the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:14, 31 October 2025
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	: Split the record into positive and negative value records? [[Special:Contributions/2A02:2455:1960:4000:E0C5:65BB:8741:E289\|2A02:2455:1960:4000:E0C5:65BB:8741:E289]] 07:56, 30 October 2025 (UTC)		: Split the record into positive and negative value records? [[Special:Contributions/2A02:2455:1960:4000:E0C5:65BB:8741:E289\|2A02:2455:1960:4000:E0C5:65BB:8741:E289]] 07:56, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
	:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)		:: A balloon doesn't really have a front/back, so there's not really a positive or negative airspeed. [[Special:Contributions/163.116.254.55\|163.116.254.55]] 14:06, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	Replaced the 'many comics about hot air balloons' with the two examples I could find. Suggest if people can find more, these should be placed in a category, and a link to that category given. NB - there are other comics about ''balloons'' of various types, but these are the only two I identified about hot air balloons specifically (and even then one is a partial reference and the other is only by inference). [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33\|82.13.184.33]] 12:14, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 You don't need a mine shaft to go for the minimum-altitude record, if you're measuring against MSL.  Just make sure that your lines and your balloon are really strong, and your basket is really heavy, and your basket is water-tight, and go for {{w|Challenger Deep}}. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 00:21, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
-demonstrates a commonly held fallacy - the balloon has NO actual "airspeed" because it moves passively with the surrounding air mass; it has no method for generating lateral force on its own, to either vector add/subtract airspeed from the moving wind surrounding it. The balloon is never actually being "blown". This isn't just semantics - it has real relevance to powered aircraft flight.  01:38, 30 October 2025 (UTC)Aviator Joe, CFII
+demonstrates a commonly held fallacy - the balloon has NO actual "airspeed" because it moves passively with the surrounding air mass; it has no method for generating lateral force on its own, to either vector add/subtract airspeed from the moving wind surrounding it. The balloon is never actually being "blown". This isn't just semantics - it has real relevance to powered aircraft flight.  {{unsigned ip|2603:7000:9c07:5749:cfe:67ca:4e99:71f8|01:38, 30 October 2025}}/Aviator Joe, CFII
 :Sure it does, transiently.  It just can't cause itself to have a non-zero airspeed.  An abrupt change in the movement of the local air - a gust, horizontal wind shear - would register as a non-zero airspeed, until either the local air goes back to matching the overall airmass (and the balloon), or the balloon accelerates (via drag) to match that moving air.  Consider:  you're cruising along in your airplane at an indicated airspeed of 100kt, and you get a 10kt gust from the front.  Your airspeed indicator momentarily jumps to 110kt until the airplane restabilizes at an IAS of 100kt again, and then when the gust goes away the reverse happens; your IAS drops to 90kt for a while, then returns to 100kt.  The exact same thing can happen in a balloon, except that the base IAS is zero - the balloon that you were passing as the gust hit you sees an IAS of 10kt as the gust hits it, then zero as it restabilizes, then 10kt in the opposite direction as the gust fades, then zero again. [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 02:42, 30 October 2025 (UTC)
+::Ah, but that is IAS.   IAS increase in the situation you describe is an artifact of the measurement - transient increase in ram pressure on the Pitot tube.  The actual airspeed of the balloon is zero (or close, if you neglect inertia/drag).  I refer you to Chapter 5 of of "Stick and Rudder" {{unsigned ip|2603:7000:9c07:5749:cfe:67ca:4e99:71f8|13:37, 30 October 2025}}
-Ah, but that is IAS.   IAS increase in the situation you describe is an artifact of the measurement - transient increase in ram pressure on the Pitot tube.  The actual airspeed of the balloon is zero (or close, if you neglect inertia/drag).  I refer you to Chapter 5 of of "Stick and Rudder"
+:::"...or close". And ''that's'' what the comic is saying. Agree/disagree?
 Actually, there can be significant wind shear near the earth.  If the basket is only a few feet above the ground, you can feel substantial “wind” because the ballioon, being higher up, is being pushed by a faster wind and dragging the basket through the lower, slower, air.  If you mount your airspeed indicator on the basket, you can have a significant ‘speed’ relative to the air through which you’re being dragged.  When I experienced this the first times, I said,  “what the?”  The pilot politely explained…… {{unsigned ip|73.162.95.226|03:18, 30 October 2025 (UTC)}}